{"error":false,"id":["170698"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170698,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170698","日期":"2026-07-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-26","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":26,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-23T10:37:30+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-23T10:49:29+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7cefb85d66825e78ef98e6d6017e68cef952d29ff77f22d74649dbcef4e334f86367c9c5a82321895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"莊瑞雄","委員發言時間":"10:37:30 - 10:49:29","會議時間":"2026-07-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、司法院、行政院消費者保護處、衛生福利部食品藥物管理署就「中聯致癌油事件之偵辦調查、消費者權益及食安監管」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請監察院秘書長、法務部部長、經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、銓敘部部長就「現行公職人員利益衝突迴避暨離職公務員旋轉門機制之執行成效與法制缺失」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【7月22日及23日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.29659375,"end":2.30909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.7815937500000003,"end":3.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.03409375,"end":10.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.544093750000002,"end":11.438468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":14.796593750000003,"end":15.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.960968750000003,"end":23.18346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.301593750000002,"end":45.424718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.424718750000004,"end":118.20659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.20659375000001,"end":124.53471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.97346875000001,"end":148.26096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.75096875,"end":145.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.34534375,"end":152.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.10846875000001,"end":153.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.95221875000001,"end":160.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.07346875000002,"end":212.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.88096875000002,"end":177.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.89221875,"end":217.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.70159375,"end":221.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.00471875000002,"end":229.53096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.59034375000002,"end":228.04596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.98659375000003,"end":239.65596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.19596875000002,"end":241.81596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.69346875000002,"end":245.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.17409375000003,"end":248.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.71784375000001,"end":248.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.86971875,"end":263.65221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":248.92034375000003,"end":248.98784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":264.22596875,"end":265.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.35221875,"end":267.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.39409375,"end":276.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":272.02221875000004,"end":272.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.65034375,"end":288.57659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.81284375,"end":292.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.79534375000003,"end":308.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.15159375,"end":309.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":309.31596875,"end":332.43471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.56971875000005,"end":333.54846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.70034375,"end":337.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.59846875,"end":338.79659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.20159375000003,"end":381.82784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.96534375000005,"end":366.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.21596875,"end":392.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":392.64471875000004,"end":406.44846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":406.70159375000003,"end":438.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.05096875000004,"end":454.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.04846875000004,"end":463.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.46909375,"end":497.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.67971875,"end":492.74721875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.84846875000005,"end":493.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.65784375000004,"end":498.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":499.24409375000005,"end":509.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.51659375,"end":574.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.57409375,"end":580.1597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.9865937500001,"end":645.8203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":589.79534375,"end":590.0147187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":646.2590937500001,"end":682.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.92221875,"end":669.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":671.3015937499999,"end":671.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.0678437500001,"end":682.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.13534375,"end":691.5347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":682.32096875,"end":682.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":691.5347187500001,"end":708.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":692.14221875,"end":692.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.91596875,"end":717.8090937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":716.9484687500001,"end":718.6359687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":10.540000000000001,"text":"請林副部長林靜怡林次長"},{"start":10.540000000000001,"end":11.540000000000001,"text":"請林次長"},{"start":11.540000000000001,"end":15.540000000000001,"text":"委員早"},{"start":15.540000000000001,"end":17.14,"text":"次長我要請教"},{"start":17.14,"end":22.94,"text":"今天行政院針對於整個食品安全管理法"},{"start":22.94,"end":27.94,"text":"行政院會議接下來也要有修法"},{"start":27.98,"end":29.98,"text":"是不是你簡單講一下"},{"start":29.98,"end":34.980000000000004,"text":"現在針對整個食安有致癌物"},{"start":34.980000000000004,"end":36.980000000000004,"text":"這樣的一個殘留超標"},{"start":36.980000000000004,"end":38.980000000000004,"text":"以後我們整個食安法的修法"},{"start":38.980000000000004,"end":40.980000000000004,"text":"你簡單看看"},{"start":40.980000000000004,"end":42.980000000000004,"text":"你真正要把這個漏洞把它補起來的話"},{"start":42.980000000000004,"end":44.980000000000004,"text":"你的修法方向到底是怎樣"},{"start":44.980000000000004,"end":45.980000000000004,"text":"好 謝謝委員"},{"start":45.980000000000004,"end":48.980000000000004,"text":"我想這一次大家關注食安法修法"},{"start":48.980000000000004,"end":50.980000000000004,"text":"那我們今天已經把修法的查案"},{"start":50.980000000000004,"end":52.980000000000004,"text":"到行政院院會去做討論"},{"start":52.980000000000004,"end":53.980000000000004,"text":"主要幾個部分"},{"start":53.980000000000004,"end":55.980000000000004,"text":"我們這一次包含後面"},{"start":56.019999999999996,"end":58.019999999999996,"text":"還有在網際網路的一些管理"},{"start":58.019999999999996,"end":60.019999999999996,"text":"所以我們總共修17條"},{"start":60.019999999999996,"end":63.019999999999996,"text":"另外還會再新增一個食品業者"},{"start":63.019999999999996,"end":65.02,"text":"及認證認可"},{"start":65.02,"end":69.02,"text":"檢驗機構監測檢驗及通報管理辦法"},{"start":69.02,"end":70.02,"text":"簡單來說就是說"},{"start":70.02,"end":72.02,"text":"第一個部分我們再一次把"},{"start":72.02,"end":76.02,"text":"中央跟地方兩邊的這個權責做個劃分"},{"start":76.02,"end":78.02,"text":"另外尤其是在明定就是說"},{"start":78.02,"end":80.02,"text":"在這種重大食品安全事件的時候"},{"start":80.02,"end":83.02,"text":"中央這邊我們來成立一個相關應變指揮"},{"start":83.02,"end":85.02,"text":"來統籌全國"},{"start":85.06,"end":88.06,"text":"這一次事實上就對中央的一些"},{"start":88.06,"end":90.06,"text":"相關範圍有些難以釐清"},{"start":90.06,"end":92.06,"text":"第二個部分很重要的事情就是"},{"start":92.06,"end":93.06,"text":"我們增訂食品業者"},{"start":93.06,"end":95.06,"text":"他要有食品安全監測計畫"},{"start":95.06,"end":98.06,"text":"其中一定範圍一定規模的食品業者"},{"start":98.06,"end":100.06,"text":"第一個他要自設實驗室"},{"start":100.06,"end":102.06,"text":"第二個他的自設實驗室要經過驗證"},{"start":102.06,"end":104.06,"text":"然後第三個就是這一次"},{"start":104.06,"end":105.06,"text":"我們遇到會有延遲通報的問題"},{"start":105.06,"end":110.06,"text":"所以說在明定就是不論是被驗證的實驗室"},{"start":110.06,"end":113.06,"text":"或者是本身業者自主檢驗的實驗室"},{"start":113.10000000000001,"end":115.10000000000001,"text":"他都要在24小時之內"},{"start":115.10000000000001,"end":116.10000000000001,"text":"有發現問題的時候"},{"start":116.10000000000001,"end":118.10000000000001,"text":"24小時之內要通報主管機關"},{"start":118.10000000000001,"end":120.10000000000001,"text":"我的問題就來了就很簡單"},{"start":120.10000000000001,"end":122.10000000000001,"text":"站在民眾的一個立場的話"},{"start":122.10000000000001,"end":124.10000000000001,"text":"其實就是第一個食品業者"},{"start":124.10000000000001,"end":127.10000000000001,"text":"第二個你說我們有三級品管嘛"},{"start":127.10000000000001,"end":129.1,"text":"第一級品管我業者"},{"start":129.1,"end":132.1,"text":"我今天生產我今天是一個製造商"},{"start":132.1,"end":135.1,"text":"不管我叫中聯或者叫什麼樣的一個大同意"},{"start":135.1,"end":136.1,"text":"叫什麼樣的一個廠商"},{"start":136.1,"end":138.1,"text":"我東西做出來以後"},{"start":138.1,"end":140.1,"text":"我要自主去做一個檢驗嘛"},{"start":140.1,"end":141.1,"text":"那檢驗完了以後呢"},{"start":141.14,"end":143.14,"text":"該通報我們這一次看的是該通報的"},{"start":143.14,"end":144.14,"text":"他此言去做一個通報"},{"start":144.14,"end":147.14,"text":"那這一個地方我們現在改革的部分在哪裡"},{"start":147.14,"end":149.14,"text":"就是讓他24小時之內"},{"start":149.14,"end":151.14,"text":"他發現他的報告一場就要通報"},{"start":151.14,"end":152.14,"text":"就是要強制了"},{"start":152.14,"end":155.14,"text":"然後這家廠商自己廠商如果隱匿的話"},{"start":155.14,"end":157.14,"text":"有時候他是委託實驗室"},{"start":157.14,"end":159.14,"text":"實驗室24小時之內發現一場也要通報"},{"start":159.14,"end":161.14,"text":"那就變成到第二級"},{"start":161.14,"end":163.14,"text":"委託第三班公正單位的部分"},{"start":163.14,"end":165.14,"text":"也不能說我第三班公正單位我驗完以後"},{"start":165.14,"end":167.14,"text":"是你廠商來委託我的"},{"start":167.14,"end":169.14,"text":"所是我就交還給你這家廠商"},{"start":169.14,"end":170.14,"text":"然後你就給我放在抽屜裡"},{"start":170.17999999999998,"end":171.17999999999998,"text":"然後你就可以放在抽屜"},{"start":171.17999999999998,"end":173.17999999999998,"text":"那個現在就是我們現在碰到的一個問題"},{"start":173.17999999999998,"end":175.17999999999998,"text":"那所以這一次修法裡面"},{"start":175.17999999999998,"end":177.17999999999998,"text":"這些都會去做一個解決"},{"start":177.17999999999998,"end":178.17999999999998,"text":"那我問題來了"},{"start":178.17999999999998,"end":180.17999999999998,"text":"你說你這個監測計畫"},{"start":180.17999999999998,"end":182.17999999999998,"text":"監測計畫怎麼這麼瞎作業"},{"start":182.17999999999998,"end":185.17999999999998,"text":"監測計畫你怎麼樣去要求他落實"},{"start":185.17999999999998,"end":187.17999999999998,"text":"我監測就有了我全部都有了"},{"start":187.17999999999998,"end":189.17999999999998,"text":"比如你有來幫我調查"},{"start":189.17999999999998,"end":191.17999999999998,"text":"你如果沒有幫我調查的時候"},{"start":191.17999999999998,"end":193.17999999999998,"text":"我只要這個監測的話"},{"start":193.17999999999998,"end":197.17999999999998,"text":"你怎麼樣去確保他一個真正的去落實"},{"start":197.17999999999998,"end":199.17999999999998,"text":"否則這個大家都可以寫得很漂亮"},{"start":199.22,"end":200.22,"text":"第二項"},{"start":200.22,"end":202.22,"text":"第二項我要跟你請教的就是"},{"start":202.22,"end":205.22,"text":"你這個自主檢驗裡面"},{"start":205.22,"end":208.22,"text":"我們剛才說要求他去做一個強制的"},{"start":208.22,"end":210.22,"text":"但是有一個問題"},{"start":210.22,"end":212.22,"text":"就是說我們要去追蹤"},{"start":212.22,"end":214.22,"text":"我們這個追蹤的一個系統"},{"start":214.22,"end":217.22,"text":"我相信衛福部現在食藥署應該就有了"},{"start":217.22,"end":219.22,"text":"你這個追蹤的一個系統"},{"start":219.22,"end":221.22,"text":"你像比如說我這一批生產出來"},{"start":221.22,"end":225.22,"text":"我今天去手上切生產出來之後"},{"start":225.22,"end":227.22,"text":"那你這些追蹤系統"},{"start":227.26,"end":229.26,"text":"我什麼時候要去申報"},{"start":229.26,"end":231.26,"text":"我這個會生產的"},{"start":231.26,"end":233.26,"text":"你時間點要放在什麼地方"},{"start":233.26,"end":236.26,"text":"你如果我今天7月1號生產出來"},{"start":236.26,"end":239.26,"text":"那我到下個月再來做一個申報的話"},{"start":239.26,"end":241.26,"text":"都吃到他罵了"},{"start":241.26,"end":243.26,"text":"都吃到他罵了"},{"start":243.26,"end":245.26,"text":"這個部分你怎麼處理"},{"start":245.26,"end":246.26,"text":"我們目前的規定是"},{"start":246.26,"end":248.26,"text":"下一個月的10號之前"},{"start":248.26,"end":249.26,"text":"是"},{"start":249.26,"end":250.26,"text":"問題來了"},{"start":250.26,"end":252.26,"text":"我說次長我的問題就這麼簡單"},{"start":252.26,"end":253.26,"text":"我站在消費者的立場"},{"start":253.26,"end":255.26,"text":"我們現在的政府部門"},{"start":255.26,"end":256.26,"text":"我們相關的一個規定是說"},{"start":256.3,"end":257.3,"text":"我生產出來以後"},{"start":257.3,"end":260.3,"text":"我下個月10號我要來做申報"},{"start":260.3,"end":262.3,"text":"萬一這一批生產出來的"},{"start":262.3,"end":263.3,"text":"馬上出問題"},{"start":263.3,"end":265.3,"text":"出問題以後"},{"start":265.3,"end":267.3,"text":"我下個月才申報"},{"start":267.3,"end":269.3,"text":"你到時候你說要追蹤"},{"start":269.3,"end":270.3,"text":"你要去勾稽"},{"start":270.3,"end":271.3,"text":"留什麼位置"},{"start":271.3,"end":272.3,"text":"哪怕你有大數據"},{"start":272.3,"end":273.3,"text":"哪怕你有AI"},{"start":273.3,"end":274.3,"text":"都在那裡打人"},{"start":274.3,"end":276.3,"text":"謝謝委員提醒"},{"start":276.3,"end":279.3,"text":"這個部分我們在相關的執法規"},{"start":279.3,"end":280.3,"text":"我們再去補強這一塊"},{"start":280.3,"end":281.3,"text":"就是我們會這一次"},{"start":281.3,"end":283.3,"text":"當然第一個事情是針對"},{"start":283.3,"end":285.3,"text":"一定規模的相關的業者"},{"start":285.34000000000003,"end":287.34000000000003,"text":"我們這邊剛委員所提到的"},{"start":287.34000000000003,"end":288.34000000000003,"text":"他的這一個"},{"start":288.34000000000003,"end":290.34000000000003,"text":"就是制程相關"},{"start":290.34000000000003,"end":291.34000000000003,"text":"我們要求他的部分"},{"start":291.34000000000003,"end":293.34000000000003,"text":"我們會做中央這邊"},{"start":293.34000000000003,"end":294.34000000000003,"text":"他的制程還有相關的"},{"start":294.34000000000003,"end":296.34000000000003,"text":"這個制定的檢驗辦法"},{"start":296.34000000000003,"end":297.34000000000003,"text":"等等監測計畫"},{"start":297.34000000000003,"end":298.34000000000003,"text":"要由中央來核定"},{"start":298.34000000000003,"end":300.34000000000003,"text":"後續地方政府才比較有辦法去查"},{"start":300.34000000000003,"end":301.34000000000003,"text":"這是第一個"},{"start":301.34000000000003,"end":302.34000000000003,"text":"那剛剛所提到"},{"start":302.34000000000003,"end":303.34000000000003,"text":"如果是像這一類的業者"},{"start":303.34000000000003,"end":305.34000000000003,"text":"他的登錄追蹤系統"},{"start":305.34000000000003,"end":307.34000000000003,"text":"這個部分我們把它縮短他的時間"},{"start":307.34000000000003,"end":308.34000000000003,"text":"謝謝委員提醒這件事情"},{"start":308.34000000000003,"end":309.34000000000003,"text":"其實這一次"},{"start":309.34000000000003,"end":311.34000000000003,"text":"你看這招委很用心"},{"start":311.34000000000003,"end":312.34000000000003,"text":"把各部會"},{"start":312.34000000000003,"end":313.34000000000003,"text":"連法務部也都找來了"},{"start":313.34000000000003,"end":314.34000000000003,"text":"連正部長也來"},{"start":314.38,"end":315.38,"text":"我為什麼不叫他上來"},{"start":315.38,"end":316.38,"text":"你知道嗎"},{"start":316.38,"end":317.38,"text":"他上來的時候"},{"start":317.38,"end":319.38,"text":"一般都要去諮詢跟監督"},{"start":319.38,"end":320.38,"text":"他這次上來"},{"start":320.38,"end":321.38,"text":"我算要打他一頓"},{"start":321.38,"end":323.38,"text":"因為確實他這是非常的一個"},{"start":323.38,"end":324.38,"text":"法務部非常的一個迅速"},{"start":324.38,"end":325.38,"text":"馬上通令高監署"},{"start":325.38,"end":326.38,"text":"那因為這涉及到"},{"start":326.38,"end":328.38,"text":"全國各個縣市裡面"},{"start":328.38,"end":330.38,"text":"各個地監署所管轄的"},{"start":330.38,"end":331.38,"text":"所以高監署這樣"},{"start":331.38,"end":332.38,"text":"部長一個"},{"start":332.38,"end":334.38,"text":"下令給高監署"},{"start":334.38,"end":335.38,"text":"高監署叫那些地監署"},{"start":335.38,"end":336.38,"text":"馬上動起來以後"},{"start":336.38,"end":338.38,"text":"這個大家都說很糟糕"},{"start":338.38,"end":339.38,"text":"6月30號"},{"start":339.38,"end":340.38,"text":"那其實"},{"start":340.38,"end":341.38,"text":"收到通報"},{"start":341.38,"end":342.38,"text":"7月1號行政部門"},{"start":342.38,"end":343.38,"text":"就動起來了"},{"start":343.42,"end":344.42,"text":"這個硬要去講蓋牌"},{"start":344.42,"end":346.42,"text":"這個其實是都過度的"},{"start":346.42,"end":347.42,"text":"政治上的一個攻防"},{"start":347.42,"end":349.42,"text":"所以正部長雖然在那裡"},{"start":349.42,"end":350.42,"text":"也要給你們學習"},{"start":350.42,"end":351.42,"text":"就是說好到最後"},{"start":351.42,"end":352.42,"text":"法務部這次"},{"start":352.42,"end":353.42,"text":"確實是非常的一個迅速"},{"start":353.42,"end":355.42,"text":"但重點我還是覺得"},{"start":355.42,"end":356.42,"text":"這次修法裡面"},{"start":356.42,"end":359.42,"text":"我們也不是改個名詞而已"},{"start":359.42,"end":361.42,"text":"你像比如說你那個41條裡面"},{"start":361.42,"end":363.42,"text":"我們這個風險的一個查核"},{"start":363.42,"end":364.42,"text":"對"},{"start":364.42,"end":365.42,"text":"你現在跟他說"},{"start":365.42,"end":367.42,"text":"我們現在這個風險導向的"},{"start":367.42,"end":368.42,"text":"一個查核"},{"start":368.42,"end":370.42,"text":"本來在食安法41條裡面"},{"start":370.42,"end":372.42,"text":"你這個預警的查核"},{"start":372.46000000000004,"end":374.46000000000004,"text":"你這個預警的查核抽樣"},{"start":374.46000000000004,"end":375.46000000000004,"text":"本來地方機關"},{"start":375.46000000000004,"end":377.46000000000004,"text":"本來就可以去做一個突襲"},{"start":377.46000000000004,"end":378.46000000000004,"text":"是"},{"start":378.46000000000004,"end":379.46000000000004,"text":"我們但是修法以後"},{"start":379.46000000000004,"end":380.46000000000004,"text":"除非你要去增加"},{"start":380.46000000000004,"end":381.46000000000004,"text":"比如說人力"},{"start":381.46000000000004,"end":384.46000000000004,"text":"你說查核的頻率次數增加"},{"start":384.46000000000004,"end":385.46000000000004,"text":"如果沒有"},{"start":385.46000000000004,"end":387.46000000000004,"text":"你這部分"},{"start":387.46000000000004,"end":389.46000000000004,"text":"我不知道說你多增加了以後"},{"start":389.46000000000004,"end":392.46000000000004,"text":"能產生什麼樣的一個效益"},{"start":392.46000000000004,"end":394.46000000000004,"text":"保安委員這個事情是這樣"},{"start":394.46000000000004,"end":395.46000000000004,"text":"我們這一次會在第41條"},{"start":395.46000000000004,"end":397.46000000000004,"text":"我們會把它"},{"start":397.46000000000004,"end":398.46000000000004,"text":"之前是得"},{"start":398.46000000000004,"end":400.46000000000004,"text":"那這一次我們就是說"},{"start":400.5,"end":401.5,"text":"他地方政府"},{"start":401.5,"end":403.5,"text":"地方主管機關應配合"},{"start":403.5,"end":405.5,"text":"辦理相關的這些措施"},{"start":405.5,"end":406.5,"text":"包含"},{"start":406.5,"end":409.5,"text":"進行到這個食品業者的內部"},{"start":409.5,"end":410.5,"text":"他的廠商內部"},{"start":410.5,"end":412.5,"text":"去進行相關的調查跟檢查"},{"start":412.5,"end":415.5,"text":"那查核之前可以不用事先通知"},{"start":415.5,"end":417.5,"text":"他就進去等於是一個突襲"},{"start":417.5,"end":418.5,"text":"那另外的話"},{"start":418.5,"end":419.5,"text":"我們過去都是讓他自己自主"},{"start":419.5,"end":420.5,"text":"那地方主管機關"},{"start":420.5,"end":421.5,"text":"我們這邊"},{"start":421.5,"end":422.5,"text":"也是尊重地方主管機關"},{"start":422.5,"end":423.5,"text":"他們去查的時間"},{"start":423.5,"end":424.5,"text":"不過這一次"},{"start":424.5,"end":426.5,"text":"我們接下來對於特定"},{"start":426.5,"end":427.5,"text":"或者像這一類影響"},{"start":427.5,"end":428.5,"text":"比較重大的一些"},{"start":428.54,"end":430.54,"text":"食品的這個業者"},{"start":430.54,"end":431.54,"text":"那我們會訂定他的"},{"start":431.54,"end":432.54,"text":"檢查的頻率"},{"start":432.54,"end":433.54,"text":"頻次會加強"},{"start":433.54,"end":435.54,"text":"然後也會把這個部分"},{"start":435.54,"end":436.54,"text":"請地方主管機關"},{"start":436.54,"end":438.54,"text":"做比較強頻次的去做檢驗"},{"start":438.54,"end":439.54,"text":"還有一個"},{"start":439.54,"end":440.54,"text":"我本席認為"},{"start":440.54,"end":441.54,"text":"一個很嚴肅的一個問題"},{"start":441.54,"end":442.54,"text":"就是說"},{"start":442.54,"end":444.54,"text":"這一次我們本來是全面性的"},{"start":444.54,"end":446.54,"text":"預防性的一個下架"},{"start":446.54,"end":447.54,"text":"是"},{"start":447.54,"end":448.54,"text":"全面性預防下架"},{"start":448.54,"end":449.54,"text":"他當然目的就是要"},{"start":449.54,"end":450.54,"text":"確保國人的一個健康"},{"start":450.54,"end":452.54,"text":"但是也會碰到一個問題"},{"start":452.54,"end":454.54,"text":"你下架完以後"},{"start":454.54,"end":457.54,"text":"這一排的全部都是上游廠商"},{"start":457.58000000000004,"end":458.58000000000004,"text":"譬如說他叫做中聯"},{"start":458.58000000000004,"end":461.58000000000004,"text":"泰山 福壽 福茂"},{"start":461.58000000000004,"end":462.58000000000004,"text":"我們這裡"},{"start":462.58000000000004,"end":464.58000000000004,"text":"那裡叫做下游"},{"start":464.58000000000004,"end":466.58000000000004,"text":"你全面都預防性下架以後"},{"start":466.58000000000004,"end":468.58000000000004,"text":"他們客家在吃青的"},{"start":468.58000000000004,"end":469.58000000000004,"text":"他們這裡都是食品"},{"start":469.58000000000004,"end":470.58000000000004,"text":"最下游的一個業者"},{"start":470.58000000000004,"end":473.58000000000004,"text":"那你如何讓他去做一個上架"},{"start":473.58000000000004,"end":476.58000000000004,"text":"現在你說這19批裡面"},{"start":476.58000000000004,"end":479.58000000000004,"text":"你認為抽檢完的安全無虞"},{"start":479.58000000000004,"end":480.58000000000004,"text":"是"},{"start":480.58000000000004,"end":481.58000000000004,"text":"可是有地方政府就認為說"},{"start":481.58000000000004,"end":482.58000000000004,"text":"真相還沒有清楚"},{"start":482.58000000000004,"end":484.58000000000004,"text":"我不讓他上架"},{"start":484.58000000000004,"end":486.58000000000004,"text":"對於這些下游廠商來講的話"},{"start":486.62,"end":489.62,"text":"你整個經濟的交易的一個秩序"},{"start":489.62,"end":492.62,"text":"你生產活動你也要讓他繼續"},{"start":492.62,"end":493.62,"text":"這是第一個問題"},{"start":493.62,"end":494.62,"text":"那第二個問題就是說"},{"start":494.62,"end":496.62,"text":"地方如果說我就不要"},{"start":496.62,"end":498.62,"text":"你要怎麼辦"},{"start":498.62,"end":499.62,"text":"第三行"},{"start":499.62,"end":501.62,"text":"有沒有辦法溝通到說"},{"start":501.62,"end":502.62,"text":"政府來確保"},{"start":502.62,"end":504.62,"text":"只要上架的這一些"},{"start":504.62,"end":508.62,"text":"全部都是符合食品健康安全的"},{"start":508.62,"end":509.62,"text":"請教次長"},{"start":509.62,"end":511.62,"text":"我們謝謝委員"},{"start":511.62,"end":513.62,"text":"我們其實就是之前"},{"start":513.62,"end":515.62,"text":"我們把所有能夠找到的"},{"start":515.66,"end":517.66,"text":"這19批相關的後續的檢體"},{"start":517.66,"end":518.66,"text":"但不是中聯的"},{"start":518.66,"end":519.66,"text":"就是中聯提供的我們不信"},{"start":519.66,"end":521.66,"text":"我們由其他另外三家"},{"start":521.66,"end":523.66,"text":"留的原油原樣來做檢驗"},{"start":523.66,"end":525.66,"text":"那現在就是確保說"},{"start":525.66,"end":528.66,"text":"這19批我們驗到的這些品項"},{"start":528.66,"end":529.66,"text":"它其實都符合現在"},{"start":529.66,"end":530.66,"text":"我們對於食安法裡面"},{"start":530.66,"end":532.66,"text":"對於油脂的標準"},{"start":532.66,"end":534.66,"text":"所以這19批驗過"},{"start":534.66,"end":535.66,"text":"就是符合標準"},{"start":535.66,"end":536.66,"text":"所以我們說他可以"},{"start":536.66,"end":537.66,"text":"能夠重新上架"},{"start":537.66,"end":539.66,"text":"因為之前是預防性下架"},{"start":539.66,"end":540.66,"text":"那就需要謝謝委員考慮到"},{"start":540.66,"end":541.66,"text":"因為這裡面其實"},{"start":541.66,"end":542.66,"text":"大的這幾家油廠"},{"start":542.66,"end":543.66,"text":"當然我們跟"},{"start":543.66,"end":544.66,"text":"我們謝謝法務部協助我們"},{"start":544.6999999999999,"end":545.6999999999999,"text":"我們要做比較"},{"start":545.6999999999999,"end":547.6999999999999,"text":"強的這個客責"},{"start":547.6999999999999,"end":549.6999999999999,"text":"但是A卡加小型食品廠"},{"start":549.6999999999999,"end":550.6999999999999,"text":"事實上是很辛苦"},{"start":550.6999999999999,"end":551.6999999999999,"text":"因為他們根本沒有辦法"},{"start":551.6999999999999,"end":552.6999999999999,"text":"知道上面那邊"},{"start":552.6999999999999,"end":553.6999999999999,"text":"發生這樣的事情"},{"start":553.6999999999999,"end":554.6999999999999,"text":"所以後來預防性下架之後"},{"start":554.6999999999999,"end":555.6999999999999,"text":"我們儘速的"},{"start":555.6999999999999,"end":556.6999999999999,"text":"我們食藥署這邊"},{"start":556.6999999999999,"end":558.6999999999999,"text":"儘速把這邊檢驗驗完"},{"start":558.6999999999999,"end":559.6999999999999,"text":"那這19批"},{"start":559.6999999999999,"end":560.6999999999999,"text":"我們希望我們今天會再"},{"start":560.6999999999999,"end":561.6999999999999,"text":"跟地方衛生局"},{"start":561.6999999999999,"end":562.6999999999999,"text":"再做一些溝通"},{"start":562.6999999999999,"end":563.6999999999999,"text":"就是說把相關的數據"},{"start":563.6999999999999,"end":564.6999999999999,"text":"跟說明"},{"start":564.6999999999999,"end":566.6999999999999,"text":"那我們自己委託的調查小組"},{"start":566.6999999999999,"end":567.6999999999999,"text":"也會儘速的把調查報告"},{"start":567.6999999999999,"end":568.6999999999999,"text":"能夠來公開"},{"start":568.6999999999999,"end":570.6999999999999,"text":"那讓大家能夠更有信心"},{"start":570.6999999999999,"end":571.6999999999999,"text":"同時也保障"},{"start":571.6999999999999,"end":572.6999999999999,"text":"這些合法的業者"},{"start":572.6999999999999,"end":573.6999999999999,"text":"他們的權益"},{"start":573.74,"end":574.74,"text":"我認為啊"},{"start":574.74,"end":575.74,"text":"市長我認為這一次"},{"start":575.74,"end":577.74,"text":"其實真正的一個問題"},{"start":577.74,"end":579.74,"text":"出在於說叫做信任"},{"start":579.74,"end":581.74,"text":"民眾對政府信任"},{"start":581.74,"end":584.74,"text":"是不是有所減損"},{"start":584.74,"end":585.74,"text":"你像譬如說不要小看"},{"start":585.74,"end":586.74,"text":"你說這19批"},{"start":586.74,"end":588.74,"text":"19批我們講的是中聯"},{"start":588.74,"end":591.74,"text":"可是你19批你到福茂"},{"start":591.74,"end":592.74,"text":"到福壽泰山分出去"},{"start":592.74,"end":594.74,"text":"你搞不好又變成5、600批"},{"start":594.74,"end":596.74,"text":"那你這三家5、600批"},{"start":596.74,"end":598.74,"text":"到這些下游廠商以後"},{"start":598.74,"end":600.74,"text":"搞不好變幾千批"},{"start":600.74,"end":602.74,"text":"那對我第一線的地方"},{"start":602.78,"end":604.78,"text":"假設我是高雄市政府的話"},{"start":604.78,"end":605.78,"text":"我才有那麼多人力"},{"start":605.78,"end":606.78,"text":"人家給你買車"},{"start":606.78,"end":607.78,"text":"有這個問題"},{"start":607.78,"end":609.78,"text":"所以我看地方政府"},{"start":609.78,"end":611.78,"text":"他現在有所抗拒"},{"start":611.78,"end":612.78,"text":"他只是找出那個理由"},{"start":612.78,"end":613.78,"text":"你看起來覺得"},{"start":613.78,"end":614.78,"text":"不用擔心啊"},{"start":614.78,"end":615.78,"text":"我的政府"},{"start":615.78,"end":617.78,"text":"中央政府好像把你關保險"},{"start":617.78,"end":619.78,"text":"但我覺得最重要的是說"},{"start":619.78,"end":621.78,"text":"會搞得他們人羊馬翻的問題"},{"start":621.78,"end":622.78,"text":"所以應該啊"},{"start":622.78,"end":624.78,"text":"我們除了確保"},{"start":624.78,"end":626.78,"text":"民眾食的安全"},{"start":626.78,"end":629.78,"text":"就為食品安全來做一個把關以外"},{"start":629.78,"end":631.78,"text":"最重要的是人羊馬翻"},{"start":631.8199999999999,"end":632.8199999999999,"text":"最重要的是"},{"start":632.8199999999999,"end":634.8199999999999,"text":"如何去確保"},{"start":634.8199999999999,"end":635.8199999999999,"text":"上架的東西"},{"start":635.8199999999999,"end":637.8199999999999,"text":"你既然沒有人給他上架嘛"},{"start":637.8199999999999,"end":639.8199999999999,"text":"這方面你就要回去看嘛"},{"start":639.8199999999999,"end":640.8199999999999,"text":"你上架你就要跟他說"},{"start":640.8199999999999,"end":643.8199999999999,"text":"你民眾去從架上所買的東西"},{"start":643.8199999999999,"end":645.8199999999999,"text":"全部都符合標準的喔"},{"start":645.8199999999999,"end":647.8199999999999,"text":"第三就是說"},{"start":647.8199999999999,"end":648.8199999999999,"text":"那些下游業者"},{"start":648.8199999999999,"end":650.8199999999999,"text":"他們扣這些現存的"},{"start":650.8199999999999,"end":651.8199999999999,"text":"怎麼辦"},{"start":651.8199999999999,"end":652.8199999999999,"text":"政府很困難"},{"start":652.8199999999999,"end":655.8199999999999,"text":"政府你必須要保障食的安全"},{"start":655.8199999999999,"end":658.8199999999999,"text":"你政府又要去維護整個經濟的一個"},{"start":658.8199999999999,"end":660.8199999999999,"text":"正常的活動的一個秩序"},{"start":660.86,"end":661.86,"text":"考驗你們啊"},{"start":661.86,"end":663.86,"text":"這個都是在建立整個"},{"start":663.86,"end":664.86,"text":"人民對政府的一個"},{"start":664.86,"end":666.86,"text":"這一次食安危機裡面的一個信任感"},{"start":666.86,"end":667.86,"text":"加油一下"},{"start":667.86,"end":668.86,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":668.86,"end":669.86,"text":"中央跟地方"},{"start":669.86,"end":671.86,"text":"其實就是科學的一個依據啦"},{"start":671.86,"end":673.86,"text":"你們專業對專業去做一個溝通啦"},{"start":673.86,"end":675.86,"text":"那地方政府他受到的這一些啊"},{"start":675.86,"end":677.86,"text":"他們人力上的不足啊"},{"start":677.86,"end":679.86,"text":"或者他的一個擔憂啊"},{"start":679.86,"end":680.86,"text":"一個人一個人"},{"start":680.86,"end":681.86,"text":"說清楚啦"},{"start":681.86,"end":682.86,"text":"說清楚"},{"start":682.86,"end":683.86,"text":"專業對專業"},{"start":683.86,"end":684.86,"text":"有考考的一個建築過後"},{"start":684.86,"end":686.86,"text":"那個信心就會建立起來"},{"start":686.86,"end":689.86,"text":"我們也剛才交給這張報告"},{"start":689.9,"end":690.9,"text":"這有意義啦"},{"start":690.9,"end":691.9,"text":"好不好"},{"start":691.9,"end":692.9,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":692.9,"end":693.9,"text":"其實在設施食安法裡面"},{"start":693.9,"end":695.9,"text":"後來後面會在第二條那邊"},{"start":695.9,"end":696.9,"text":"第二條加上就是"},{"start":696.9,"end":698.9,"text":"像這一類重大事件"},{"start":698.9,"end":700.9,"text":"中央這邊變成是一個中央"},{"start":700.9,"end":701.9,"text":"有一個指揮中心的概念"},{"start":701.9,"end":702.9,"text":"我們跟地方政府"},{"start":702.9,"end":704.9,"text":"我們這樣有一個平行平台"},{"start":704.9,"end":706.9,"text":"一起把資訊做一個更好的直接溝通"},{"start":706.9,"end":708.9,"text":"對地方政府協助會比較大"},{"start":708.9,"end":709.9,"text":"你這如果創下好事之後"},{"start":709.9,"end":710.9,"text":"設個議會"},{"start":710.9,"end":712.9,"text":"那場遊行也會被你閉了"},{"start":712.9,"end":713.9,"text":"你創不好事之後"},{"start":713.9,"end":714.9,"text":"那人很多去你那裡發發"},{"start":714.9,"end":715.9,"text":"大家也沒民主"},{"start":715.9,"end":716.9,"text":"好不好"},{"start":716.9,"end":717.9,"text":"好"},{"start":717.9,"end":718.9,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":718.9,"end":719.9399999999999,"text":"謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}