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r":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:06:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:06:49.700000+08:00","text":"對，你們有對廠長聲押嘛！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:06:50.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:06:59.764706+08:00","text":"證據的保全，如果檢察官還有辦案團隊認為應該保全來做清查，他們都會做這個部分的保全。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:07:00.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:07:01.818182+08:00","text":"昨天你們有針對中聯的廠長聲押嘛！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:07:03.111111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:07:03.555556+08:00","text":"要羈押。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:07:07.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:07:18.777778+08:00","text":"這個中聯毒油事件，不管是他的製程缺失，或是污染源，或是事故成因，現在有調查清楚了嗎？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:07:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:07:24.800000+08:00","text":"因為對於調查結果，我沒辦法介入、干涉、指導……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:07:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:07:27.714286+08:00","text":"但目前是還沒有，因為還沒起訴嘛！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:07:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:07:30.800000+08:00","text":"這個部分我不清楚，因為偵查部分我就不過問了。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:07:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:07:33.833333+08:00","text":"看起來是沒有，如果調查清楚，就會起訴了嘛！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:07:35.090909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:07:45.846154+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為這個案件要向上溯源，也要做證據保全，所以委員關心的問題，檢察官都會全力來做。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:07:46.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:08:15.769231+08:00","text":"部長，可是現在衛福部已經先讓19批產品重新上架，在真相還沒有查明之前就做這樣的動作，事實上，會讓消費者誤以為產品都沒有問題，如果未來重新上架之後，相關產品又驗出苯駢芘或是其他有害物質超標，請問法務部會做什麼樣的處理？","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:08:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:08:27.800000+08:00","text":"會不會調查決策官員是不是有廢弛職務、登載不實、圖利或涉及其他相關刑責，法務部會做這樣的處理嗎？","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:08:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:08:43.846154+08:00","text":"有犯罪行為，檢察官才能夠依法偵辦，如果有發現犯罪嫌疑，或者是有告訴、告發，我們就會立案偵辦，刑事訴訟法第二百二十八條是這樣規定。","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:08:44.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:08:47.538462+08:00","text":"因為看起來目前真相都還沒有明朗、沒有查明……","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:08:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:08:50.750000+08:00","text":"如果有犯罪嫌疑，檢察官會主動來偵辦。","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:08:51.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:09:11+08:00","text":"我想請教部長，如果行政官員做這樣一個錯誤的上架決策，後來又驗出有毒油品的話，我們的調查官員是不是有觸犯刑法第一百三十條的廢弛職務罪？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:09:11.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:09:22.800000+08:00","text":"這個部分要看構成要件，看犯罪的證據是不是有到達廢弛職務釀成災害罪，這是故意犯的犯罪，不是過失。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:09:24.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:09:33.909091+08:00","text":"這個是第一百三十條的部分，如果認定有這樣的犯罪事實，檢察官會因告訴、告發依職權來偵辦。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:09:35.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:09:44.769231+08:00","text":"另外，再請教鄭部長，目前法院裁定准予扣押涉案4家公司名下的不動產，剛剛你有提到，大概是兩億多的價值……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:09:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:10:08.812500+08:00","text":"兩億多的範圍內，因為檢察官有跟法院聲請扣押，這是屬於財產的保全，這部分我們是跟法院聲請扣押，扣押的財產價值是兩億五千三百多萬元的不動產，法院准扣押了1億2,600萬元，就這個範圍內扣了1億2,600萬元。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:10:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:10:15.833333+08:00","text":"那請問一下，你們扣押的這些金額是不是足以保全犯罪所得、行政罰鍰跟消費者賠償呢？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:10:16.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:10:41.800000+08:00","text":"這是第一步的財產聲請扣押，這些是不是犯罪不法所得，目前這是一個推估，因為現在案件還在偵查中，所以我們依據這些案件的進程，我們會再做另外的作為。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:10:42.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:10:57.666667+08:00","text":"我跟部長報告，你可以看一下，現在消基會跟消保協會針對這個案件已經申請團體訴訟，就像這個標題：團體訴訟啟動，求償金估破60億。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:10:58.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:11:20.833333+08:00","text":"你們現在扣押了他名下一億多的不動產，請問一下，就算後來我們證明消費者勝訴，但是事實上業者早就脫產了，你現在扣押的根本就不足以賠償可能超過60億的金額，請問這個部分法務部應該要怎麼樣處理？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:11:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:11:44.333333+08:00","text":"多管齊下，當然，我們刑事就以刑事案件做財產保全，那是多管齊下，當然在民事可以用民事保全程序，消保處也可以依據消保法相關的規定、依照民事訴訟法，這部分是不是請消保處來答復？","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:11:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:11:46.750000+08:00","text":"因為有關於這部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:11:47.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:11:52.750000+08:00","text":"我們希望法務部可以去扣押他名下的不動產……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:11:52.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T11:11:53.750000+08:00","text":"因為多管齊下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:11:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:11:56.875000+08:00","text":"但是現在看起來扣押的金額顯然有很大的差距。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:11:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:12:00.769231+08:00","text":"我們是先扣了第一批，當然我們會按照案件的時程……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:12:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:12:03.888889+08:00","text":"可是有可能你們在扣的時候，他都已經脫產了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:12:04.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:12:06.857143+08:00","text":"我們會關注這個問題，的確，我們要預防這個問題才會就財產保全。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:12:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:12:28.857143+08:00","text":"所以針對這個部分檢方要先清查涉案公司跟高層的金融帳戶、存款、有價證券、應收帳款跟關係企業跟海外的資產，避免他們在這段時間脫產，因為司法的整個過程可能需要很長一段時間，等到真正勝訴的時候，消費者要求償也無門，所以這個部分可能要請部長……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:12:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:12:31.142857+08:00","text":"這個多管齊下，有刑事、民事還有行政扣留。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:12:32.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:12:32.700000+08:00","text":"好，剛剛您講說要請消保處。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"鍾處長瑞蘭","start":"2026-07-23T11:12:38.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:12:38.500000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"鍾處長瑞蘭","start":"2026-07-23T11:12:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:12:48.857143+08:00","text":"我想這個部分如同剛剛部長講的，我們會多管齊下，因為有兩個消保團體來進行，我們會跟他們做一些這個部分的討論。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:12:50.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:12:50.833333+08:00","text":"討論之後呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:12:53.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:12:57+08:00","text":"看起來雖然是多管齊下，如果法務部都只扣押了一億多……","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"鍾處長瑞蘭","start":"2026-07-23T11:12:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:13:08.909091+08:00","text":"假扣押有假扣押在民事訴訟法上面的要件，因為現在消保團體才開放給民眾、消費者來登記，所以他必須要有一些評估的……","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:13:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:13:24.833333+08:00","text":"當然我們知道有一定的程序，可是這樣民眾是聽不下去的，因為如果這樣子的話，有可能到最後即使是勝訴了，當然看起來勝訴的機率是非常高，也求償無門，也沒有辦法得到保障。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:13:25.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:13:48.666667+08:00","text":"針對這個部分也要請法務部這邊積極協助打團體訴訟的這些協會，協助他們做一些可以保全證據或者是可以求償的相關動作，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長銘謙","start":"2026-07-23T11:13:49.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:14:04.600000+08:00","text":"的確，因為多管齊下，當然還有地方政府消保官也可以成立損害賠償的信託專戶，另外，我們行政機關也可以做行政扣留，多管齊下來保障消費者的權益。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:14:05.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:14:20.888889+08:00","text":"好，因為這是全國矚目的食安事件，我覺得廣大消費者的權益才是我們最該要保障，跟最後應該要還給他們應有的賠償，這部分要請法務部及消保會一起共同努力，謝謝，部長請回。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:14:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:14:22.750000+08:00","text":"現在請銓敘部施部長。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-23T11:14:23.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:14:23.400000+08:00","text":"請施部長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T11:14:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:14:26+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:14:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:14:32.666667+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:14:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:15:30.714286+08:00","text":"部長，今天想請教你的是有關旋轉門條款，我們知道像最近發生國泰投信的重大內控事件有波及超過5萬名投資人，也再次引發外界對金融監理跟公司治理的質疑，與此同時，前金管會主委王儷玲跟前副主委吳當傑擔任國泰體系的獨董，讓人家覺得是金管會無法確實管理金檢的原因之一，而且前經濟部長王美花也卸任不到一個月就進入台新金控跟台新銀行董事會，這些轉任目前並沒有違法，但是卻凸顯了現行的旋轉門條款僅以職務直接相關跟三年期限為界來處理，也難以處理高階官員離職後所帶來的政策、資訊、行政人脈跟實質的影響力。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:15:31.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:15:46.812500+08:00","text":"在你們的報告裡面也提到，從85年的認定標準到現在已經超過30年了，可能不符合現在政府跟企業的複雜關係，但到目前為止，請問銓敘部有做什麼樣子的因應？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T11:15:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:16:15.800000+08:00","text":"我們主要是在114年又做了一個補充的規定，規定適用的範圍，例如營利事業不會只有指目的事業主管機關，只要是這個機關的法定職掌對這個營利事業具有監督或管理的主管機關都算進來；另外一個，我們也增加如果涉及到投資業務或者是委託經營關係，也都加進來。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T11:16:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:16:26.571429+08:00","text":"我想委員剛剛指教的問題比較偏向我們現在在臺灣整個大的制度習慣都還是用特定職務，但是不同的國家有不同的方式……","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:16:27.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:16:44.800000+08:00","text":"你剛剛講的114年的這個函釋事實上是不拘束刑事法院的，所以標準已經過時了，函釋又沒有司法拘束力，請問一下，針對這個部分銓敘部是不是會提出修法？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T11:16:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:17:10.875000+08:00","text":"應該這樣講，因為有關這個部分法律的罰則是刑事罰，就是違反權責是刑事罰，並不是行政罰，根據大法官會議的解釋，任何行政部門基於職權所做的函釋並不必然拘束法院，事實上也有一些個案法院並沒有採取行政機關的方案，所以這個部分其實是一個法制的問題。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T11:17:11.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:17:30.777778+08:00","text":"我想要回過頭來談的可能是更大的議題，即確實有一些特定的行為應不應該要納入規範，這個在不同的國家不同的做法，所以這部分我們部裡面會再繼續討論，因為再把行為納入規範，那個會很大、很大。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:17:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:17:34.600000+08:00","text":"部長，針對這個部分是不是有可能會提出有關第十六條的修正？","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T11:17:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:17:45.800000+08:00","text":"目前確實還沒有規劃，但是我們會繼續跟機關來研商這個部分是否需要。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:17:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:17:49.846154+08:00","text":"部長可不可以給我一個時間，就是你們可能何時會提出這樣子的修法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T11:17:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:18:00.727273+08:00","text":"我現在沒有辦法跟委員下一個結論說一定會提修法，但是我們願意再徵詢機關這部分的意見，因為他真的影響還滿大的。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:18:01.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:18:03.769231+08:00","text":"既然部長也認為影響滿大的……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T11:18:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:18:09.800000+08:00","text":"因為這個不僅僅影響政務首長，是所有的公務人員都會受到影響。","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"許委員宇甄","start":"2026-07-23T11:18:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:18:15.777778+08:00","text":"我知道，都會影響，所以既然部長剛剛也提到這個影響滿大的，還是希望銓敘部能夠儘快的提出修法，好嗎？謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2026-07-23T11:18:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-23T11:18:17.750000+08:00","text":"我們努力，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-23T11:18:18.250000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T11:18:19.678571+08:00","text":"謝謝許委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-23T11:18:19.978571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T11:18:22.264286+08:00","text":"我們現在休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-23T11:18:22.564286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T11:18:23.707143+08:00","text":"休息（11時18分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-23T11:18:24.007143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T11:18:25.721429+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時23分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-23T11:18:26.021429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T11:18:27.735714+08:00","text":"現在繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-23T11:18:28.035714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-23T11:18:30.321429+08:00","text":"請洪毓祥委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":723,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（11時4分）謝謝主席，我們請法務部鄭部長。"],["主席：有請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：部長好。你們今天是針對中聯致癌油事件的偵辦調查做報告，我想請教，因為在法務部的報告裡一直強調你們都在第一時間「嚴查速辦，溯源斷根」，以這件事情6月30日中聯通報之後，請問法務部是什麼時候開始調查？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，7月2日就有組成一個專案小組，有做一些規劃，7月3日分案，7月6日已經跟相關單位到中聯去調取相關資料，整備後，7月9日第一波搜索……"],["許委員宇甄：所以你們是7月6日才跟業者調取資料嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想這個要整備，一定要做整備，因為這是一個很專業的食安案件，檢驗、檢測都是很專業的，所以這個部分要做整備……"],["許委員宇甄：因為從6月30日發生到你們真正去索取資料……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個速度是算很快的。"],["許委員宇甄：7月9日才搜索嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：搜索是還要再準備相關資料向法院聲請搜索。"],["許委員宇甄：是，我知道，但是到你調取資料和搜索這中間還有一些時間差，在這幾天時間，業者是不是有可能會針對電腦、通訊紀錄、檢驗資料及進銷貨系統做一些更改或刪除？因為他們既然隱匿，所以搞不好有做一些更改或刪除。針對這個部分，你們在搜索的過程中是不是資料有保全？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個部分是個案保全到多少證據，因為7月9日搜索，昨天又搜索第二……"],["許委員宇甄：對，你們有對廠長聲押嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：證據的保全，如果檢察官還有辦案團隊認為應該保全來做清查，他們都會做這個部分的保全。"],["許委員宇甄：昨天你們有針對中聯的廠長聲押嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：要羈押。"],["許委員宇甄：這個中聯毒油事件，不管是他的製程缺失，或是污染源，或是事故成因，現在有調查清楚了嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為對於調查結果，我沒辦法介入、干涉、指導……"],["許委員宇甄：但目前是還沒有，因為還沒起訴嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個部分我不清楚，因為偵查部分我就不過問了。"],["許委員宇甄：看起來是沒有，如果調查清楚，就會起訴了嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，因為這個案件要向上溯源，也要做證據保全，所以委員關心的問題，檢察官都會全力來做。"],["許委員宇甄：部長，可是現在衛福部已經先讓19批產品重新上架，在真相還沒有查明之前就做這樣的動作，事實上，會讓消費者誤以為產品都沒有問題，如果未來重新上架之後，相關產品又驗出苯駢芘或是其他有害物質超標，請問法務部會做什麼樣的處理？會不會調查決策官員是不是有廢弛職務、登載不實、圖利或涉及其他相關刑責，法務部會做這樣的處理嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：有犯罪行為，檢察官才能夠依法偵辦，如果有發現犯罪嫌疑，或者是有告訴、告發，我們就會立案偵辦，刑事訴訟法第二百二十八條是這樣規定。"],["許委員宇甄：因為看起來目前真相都還沒有明朗、沒有查明……"],["鄭部長銘謙：如果有犯罪嫌疑，檢察官會主動來偵辦。"],["許委員宇甄：我想請教部長，如果行政官員做這樣一個錯誤的上架決策，後來又驗出有毒油品的話，我們的調查官員是不是有觸犯刑法第一百三十條的廢弛職務罪？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個部分要看構成要件，看犯罪的證據是不是有到達廢弛職務釀成災害罪，這是故意犯的犯罪，不是過失。這個是第一百三十條的部分，如果認定有這樣的犯罪事實，檢察官會因告訴、告發依職權來偵辦。"],["許委員宇甄：另外，再請教鄭部長，目前法院裁定准予扣押涉案4家公司名下的不動產，剛剛你有提到，大概是兩億多的價值……"],["鄭部長銘謙：兩億多的範圍內，因為檢察官有跟法院聲請扣押，這是屬於財產的保全，這部分我們是跟法院聲請扣押，扣押的財產價值是兩億五千三百多萬元的不動產，法院准扣押了1億2,600萬元，就這個範圍內扣了1億2,600萬元。"],["許委員宇甄：那請問一下，你們扣押的這些金額是不是足以保全犯罪所得、行政罰鍰跟消費者賠償呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是第一步的財產聲請扣押，這些是不是犯罪不法所得，目前這是一個推估，因為現在案件還在偵查中，所以我們依據這些案件的進程，我們會再做另外的作為。"],["許委員宇甄：我跟部長報告，你可以看一下，現在消基會跟消保協會針對這個案件已經申請團體訴訟，就像這個標題：團體訴訟啟動，求償金估破60億。你們現在扣押了他名下一億多的不動產，請問一下，就算後來我們證明消費者勝訴，但是事實上業者早就脫產了，你現在扣押的根本就不足以賠償可能超過60億的金額，請問這個部分法務部應該要怎麼樣處理？"],["鄭部長銘謙：多管齊下，當然，我們刑事就以刑事案件做財產保全，那是多管齊下，當然在民事可以用民事保全程序，消保處也可以依據消保法相關的規定、依照民事訴訟法，這部分是不是請消保處來答復？因為有關於這部分……"],["許委員宇甄：我們希望法務部可以去扣押他名下的不動產……"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為多管齊下。"],["許委員宇甄：但是現在看起來扣押的金額顯然有很大的差距。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們是先扣了第一批，當然我們會按照案件的時程……"],["許委員宇甄：可是有可能你們在扣的時候，他都已經脫產了。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們會關注這個問題，的確，我們要預防這個問題才會就財產保全。"],["許委員宇甄：所以針對這個部分檢方要先清查涉案公司跟高層的金融帳戶、存款、有價證券、應收帳款跟關係企業跟海外的資產，避免他們在這段時間脫產，因為司法的整個過程可能需要很長一段時間，等到真正勝訴的時候，消費者要求償也無門，所以這個部分可能要請部長……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個多管齊下，有刑事、民事還有行政扣留。"],["許委員宇甄：好，剛剛您講說要請消保處。"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：委員好。我想這個部分如同剛剛部長講的，我們會多管齊下，因為有兩個消保團體來進行，我們會跟他們做一些這個部分的討論。"],["許委員宇甄：討論之後呢？看起來雖然是多管齊下，如果法務部都只扣押了一億多……"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：假扣押有假扣押在民事訴訟法上面的要件，因為現在消保團體才開放給民眾、消費者來登記，所以他必須要有一些評估的……"],["許委員宇甄：當然我們知道有一定的程序，可是這樣民眾是聽不下去的，因為如果這樣子的話，有可能到最後即使是勝訴了，當然看起來勝訴的機率是非常高，也求償無門，也沒有辦法得到保障。針對這個部分也要請法務部這邊積極協助打團體訴訟的這些協會，協助他們做一些可以保全證據或者是可以求償的相關動作，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：的確，因為多管齊下，當然還有地方政府消保官也可以成立損害賠償的信託專戶，另外，我們行政機關也可以做行政扣留，多管齊下來保障消費者的權益。"],["許委員宇甄：好，因為這是全國矚目的食安事件，我覺得廣大消費者的權益才是我們最該要保障，跟最後應該要還給他們應有的賠償，這部分要請法務部及消保會一起共同努力，謝謝，部長請回。","現在請銓敘部施部長。"],["主席：請施部長。"],["施部長能傑：委員好。"],["許委員宇甄：部長好。部長，今天想請教你的是有關旋轉門條款，我們知道像最近發生國泰投信的重大內控事件有波及超過5萬名投資人，也再次引發外界對金融監理跟公司治理的質疑，與此同時，前金管會主委王儷玲跟前副主委吳當傑擔任國泰體系的獨董，讓人家覺得是金管會無法確實管理金檢的原因之一，而且前經濟部長王美花也卸任不到一個月就進入台新金控跟台新銀行董事會，這些轉任目前並沒有違法，但是卻凸顯了現行的旋轉門條款僅以職務直接相關跟三年期限為界來處理，也難以處理高階官員離職後所帶來的政策、資訊、行政人脈跟實質的影響力。在你們的報告裡面也提到，從85年的認定標準到現在已經超過30年了，可能不符合現在政府跟企業的複雜關係，但到目前為止，請問銓敘部有做什麼樣子的因應？"],["施部長能傑：我們主要是在114年又做了一個補充的規定，規定適用的範圍，例如營利事業不會只有指目的事業主管機關，只要是這個機關的法定職掌對這個營利事業具有監督或管理的主管機關都算進來；另外一個，我們也增加如果涉及到投資業務或者是委託經營關係，也都加進來。","我想委員剛剛指教的問題比較偏向我們現在在臺灣整個大的制度習慣都還是用特定職務，但是不同的國家有不同的方式……"],["許委員宇甄：你剛剛講的114年的這個函釋事實上是不拘束刑事法院的，所以標準已經過時了，函釋又沒有司法拘束力，請問一下，針對這個部分銓敘部是不是會提出修法？"],["施部長能傑：應該這樣講，因為有關這個部分法律的罰則是刑事罰，就是違反權責是刑事罰，並不是行政罰，根據大法官會議的解釋，任何行政部門基於職權所做的函釋並不必然拘束法院，事實上也有一些個案法院並沒有採取行政機關的方案，所以這個部分其實是一個法制的問題。我想要回過頭來談的可能是更大的議題，即確實有一些特定的行為應不應該要納入規範，這個在不同的國家不同的做法，所以這部分我們部裡面會再繼續討論，因為再把行為納入規範，那個會很大、很大。"],["許委員宇甄：部長，針對這個部分是不是有可能會提出有關第十六條的修正？"],["施部長能傑：目前確實還沒有規劃，但是我們會繼續跟機關來研商這個部分是否需要。"],["許委員宇甄：部長可不可以給我一個時間，就是你們可能何時會提出這樣子的修法？"],["施部長能傑：我現在沒有辦法跟委員下一個結論說一定會提修法，但是我們願意再徵詢機關這部分的意見，因為他真的影響還滿大的。"],["許委員宇甄：既然部長也認為影響滿大的……"],["施部長能傑：因為這個不僅僅影響政務首長，是所有的公務人員都會受到影響。"],["許委員宇甄：我知道，都會影響，所以既然部長剛剛也提到這個影響滿大的，還是希望銓敘部能夠儘快的提出修法，好嗎？謝謝。"],["施部長能傑：我們努力，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許委員。","我們現在休息5分鐘。","休息（11時18分）","繼續開會（11時23分）"],["主席：現在繼續開會。","請洪毓祥委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":360,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-36-26","speakers":["翁曉玲","陳昭姿","吳宗憲","張雅琳","林倩綺","莊瑞雄","范雲","許宇甄","洪毓祥","賴士葆","洪孟楷","劉書彬","林沛祥","沈發惠","蔡其昌","蔡春綢","傅崐萁","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2026-07-23"],"gazette_id":"1156502","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156502_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、司法院、行政院消費者保護處、衛生福利部食品藥物管\n理署就「中聯致癌油事件之偵辦調查、消費者權益及食安監管」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、\n邀請監察院秘書長、法務部部長、經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、銓敘部部長就「現行\n公職人員利益衝突迴避暨離職公務員旋轉門機制之執行成效與法制缺失」進行專題報告，並備質\n詢","agenda_id":"1156502_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}