{"error":false,"id":["170702"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170702,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170702","日期":"2026-07-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"公聽會-2026071639","會議代碼:str":"舉行「勞退新舊制相關修法」公聽會","屆":11,"會期":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"公聽會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「勞退新舊制相關修法」公聽會）"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-23T11:18:11+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-23T11:26:15+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:04","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7cefb85d66825e78e9b1a32ef4e22ffe1fe01d9cd20695b3669a48ea8244716aceb4dfd8bc894f5d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"11:18:11 - 11:26:15","會議時間":"2026-07-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「勞退新舊制相關修法」公聽會）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":120.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.97409375000001,"end":137.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.38909375,"end":144.16034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.56534375,"end":173.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.57346875000002,"end":173.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":173.97846875000002,"end":243.67221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.26284375,"end":247.26659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.70534375000003,"end":248.39721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":249.44346875000002,"end":250.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.91159375,"end":282.50159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":282.51846875,"end":298.38096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.81971875,"end":299.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.56221875,"end":332.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":332.23221875,"end":339.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.25221875,"end":374.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.61784375,"end":467.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":467.80596875000003,"end":476.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.05346875000004,"end":478.99409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":481.35659375000006,"end":482.68971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.97221875,"end":484.71471875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":3,"text":"主席要安排今天的公聽會"},{"start":3,"end":6.3,"text":"那我也要感謝今天所有公會的代表"},{"start":6.3,"end":9.3,"text":"還有專家學者今天的出席"},{"start":9.3,"end":12.6,"text":"我想剛剛前面有很多先進提到"},{"start":12.6,"end":14.700000000000001,"text":"台灣的經濟果實"},{"start":14.700000000000001,"end":17.400000000000002,"text":"事實上是各行各業的勞工"},{"start":17.400000000000002,"end":19.3,"text":"真的站在第一線"},{"start":19.3,"end":23,"text":"每一天很辛勞的工作打拼出來的"},{"start":23,"end":25.400000000000002,"text":"所以第一個我們真的要感謝"},{"start":25.400000000000002,"end":26.8,"text":"全國的勞工朋友"},{"start":26.8,"end":28.6,"text":"每一天都戰戰兢兢的"},{"start":28.6,"end":30.400000000000002,"text":"在工作崗位上面"},{"start":30.400000000000002,"end":34.300000000000004,"text":"付出他們的工作的心血"},{"start":34.300000000000004,"end":36.4,"text":"然後幫台灣創造"},{"start":36.4,"end":39.400000000000006,"text":"目前這麼高的一個經濟的果實"},{"start":39.400000000000006,"end":43.2,"text":"那台灣擁有這龐大的經濟果實之後"},{"start":43.2,"end":46,"text":"很重要的是我們要重分配"},{"start":46,"end":47.900000000000006,"text":"我們要有效的回饋"},{"start":47.900000000000006,"end":50.2,"text":"讓這些我們勞工朋友"},{"start":50.2,"end":52,"text":"這個他們的生活"},{"start":52,"end":55.2,"text":"可以獲得我們國家制度性的保障"},{"start":55.2,"end":56.400000000000006,"text":"所以今天"},{"start":56.5,"end":59.1,"text":"我主要有很多的公會的代表"},{"start":59.1,"end":60.3,"text":"都有從各自的立場"},{"start":60.3,"end":62.4,"text":"提出一些未來修法的建言"},{"start":62.4,"end":63.8,"text":"我想這個立法院"},{"start":63.8,"end":65.1,"text":"我們應該都要尊重"},{"start":65.1,"end":66.5,"text":"而且都要聽見"},{"start":66.5,"end":68.2,"text":"之後再跟勞動部"},{"start":68.2,"end":70.8,"text":"一起來研商怎麼樣是一個"},{"start":70.8,"end":73.8,"text":"可行的然後前進的辦法"},{"start":73.8,"end":75.3,"text":"那我針對今天的主題"},{"start":75.3,"end":77.2,"text":"我有幾點要表達意見"},{"start":77.2,"end":79.5,"text":"第一個就是我們一定要確保"},{"start":79.5,"end":81.1,"text":"我們所有的勞工朋友"},{"start":81.1,"end":82.8,"text":"現在所繳的這些費用"},{"start":82.8,"end":84.6,"text":"未來他是領得到的"},{"start":84.69999999999999,"end":87.39999999999999,"text":"所以有關於勞工保險基金"},{"start":87.39999999999999,"end":89.69999999999999,"text":"會不會破產怎麼樣確保"},{"start":89.69999999999999,"end":92,"text":"我們的基金是永續的運作"},{"start":92,"end":94.89999999999999,"text":"我覺得這個是政府責無旁貸的責任"},{"start":94.89999999999999,"end":96.3,"text":"那在立法院裡面"},{"start":96.3,"end":98.8,"text":"我們在今年一月已經通過了"},{"start":98.8,"end":102.8,"text":"這個政府負最終之負責任"},{"start":102.8,"end":104.8,"text":"這個事實上已經入法"},{"start":104.8,"end":107,"text":"但是我覺得入法還不夠"},{"start":107,"end":108.69999999999999,"text":"事實上勞動部"},{"start":108.69999999999999,"end":111.5,"text":"應該要很務實的看待這個基金"},{"start":111.5,"end":113.69999999999999,"text":"他的收支不平衡的狀況"},{"start":113.7,"end":115.8,"text":"還有潛藏負債的狀況"},{"start":115.8,"end":118.5,"text":"那現在當然勞動部告訴大家說"},{"start":118.5,"end":121,"text":"我們到目前為止"},{"start":121,"end":123.2,"text":"這八年來總共提撥了"},{"start":123.2,"end":125.7,"text":"五千一百七十億"},{"start":125.7,"end":128.1,"text":"但是這個夠嗎"},{"start":128.1,"end":129.5,"text":"事實上是不夠的"},{"start":129.5,"end":132.4,"text":"剛剛其實有學者也特別提到了"},{"start":132.4,"end":133.9,"text":"這個收支差額"},{"start":133.9,"end":136,"text":"來到了2034年"},{"start":136,"end":138.4,"text":"其實一年高達五千億"},{"start":138.4,"end":140.2,"text":"所以以現行的"},{"start":140.29999999999998,"end":144.5,"text":"其實你去年提撥了一千三百億"},{"start":144.5,"end":146.29999999999998,"text":"在面對未來的情況"},{"start":146.29999999999998,"end":148.5,"text":"事實上它還是不夠的"},{"start":148.5,"end":150.7,"text":"所以我們也不能鴕鳥"},{"start":150.7,"end":154.2,"text":"這個雖然講了政府負最終責任"},{"start":154.2,"end":156,"text":"但是這當中怎麼去提高"},{"start":156,"end":157.89999999999998,"text":"你整個基金的收益"},{"start":157.89999999999998,"end":160.2,"text":"提高政府撥補的金額"},{"start":160.2,"end":161.7,"text":"這個是一定要去做的"},{"start":161.7,"end":163.89999999999998,"text":"我覺得這兩個方向一定要去做"},{"start":163.89999999999998,"end":165.7,"text":"那現在政府在報告裡面"},{"start":165.7,"end":166.6,"text":"告訴我們說"},{"start":166.6,"end":167.79999999999998,"text":"這個財政部說"},{"start":167.8,"end":170.5,"text":"這個不可以明定金額"},{"start":170.5,"end":174,"text":"也不可以明定每年要固定提撥多少"},{"start":174,"end":176,"text":"主機處也說不可以"},{"start":176,"end":177.60000000000002,"text":"但是這個部分"},{"start":177.60000000000002,"end":179.10000000000002,"text":"我覺得未來你如果沒有一個"},{"start":179.10000000000002,"end":180.60000000000002,"text":"最低的樓地板"},{"start":180.60000000000002,"end":181.5,"text":"就是承諾的"},{"start":181.5,"end":183.60000000000002,"text":"我們不能只是部長一句話"},{"start":183.60000000000002,"end":185.70000000000002,"text":"部長說他會努力"},{"start":185.70000000000002,"end":188.60000000000002,"text":"這個民營一定不低於一千三百億"},{"start":188.60000000000002,"end":190.5,"text":"我們政務官是來來去去"},{"start":190.5,"end":192.8,"text":"我們不能靠政府的一句話"},{"start":192.8,"end":195.3,"text":"所以未來也請勞動部去研議"},{"start":195.3,"end":198,"text":"怎麼樣是最低的撥補金額"},{"start":198,"end":200.3,"text":"我覺得應該是要民文化的"},{"start":200.3,"end":202,"text":"這個也是給我們全國勞工"},{"start":202,"end":203.10000000000002,"text":"必要的保障"},{"start":203.10000000000002,"end":205.3,"text":"那另外在投資收益的部分"},{"start":205.3,"end":208.60000000000002,"text":"我想這個勞動部也會事實告訴大家說"},{"start":208.60000000000002,"end":210.60000000000002,"text":"哎呀我們這個收益有多好"},{"start":210.60000000000002,"end":213.4,"text":"我希望這整個投資的效益"},{"start":213.4,"end":215.8,"text":"可以讓它更穩定化"},{"start":215.8,"end":217.8,"text":"那如果這個投資報酬率"},{"start":217.8,"end":221,"text":"投報率是好的是高的是穩定的"},{"start":221,"end":223.8,"text":"我相信對於我們的勞保基金來講"},{"start":223.9,"end":226.5,"text":"這個會有一些穩定的注意"},{"start":226.5,"end":228.8,"text":"所以第一個我要提醒的就是"},{"start":228.8,"end":231.60000000000002,"text":"我們雖然這個最終支付責任"},{"start":231.60000000000002,"end":233.70000000000002,"text":"政府最終支付責任入法"},{"start":233.70000000000002,"end":237.5,"text":"但是勞保基金你怎麼樣持續的開源"},{"start":237.5,"end":239.60000000000002,"text":"然後政府撥補的金額"},{"start":239.60000000000002,"end":242.3,"text":"怎麼樣訂出一個最低的撥補金額"},{"start":242.3,"end":245.3,"text":"然後讓它這個情況可以改善"},{"start":245.3,"end":247.70000000000002,"text":"整個基金的財務狀況可以改善"},{"start":247.70000000000002,"end":250.9,"text":"這個破產的議題"},{"start":250.9,"end":253.5,"text":"在短期之內不會再被提及"},{"start":253.5,"end":255.6,"text":"然後可以有效的永續"},{"start":255.6,"end":258.2,"text":"我覺得這個是要去面對的議題"},{"start":258.2,"end":262.2,"text":"第二個就是涉及到勞工的權益的問題"},{"start":262.2,"end":265.8,"text":"那今天有非常多位的勞工團體的代表"},{"start":265.8,"end":267.6,"text":"其實也都提到"},{"start":267.6,"end":269.7,"text":"特別是剛剛我們聽到這個"},{"start":269.7,"end":273.1,"text":"我們公會的理事長"},{"start":273.1,"end":276.6,"text":"這個也提到了我們勞保的最高級距"},{"start":276.6,"end":279.4,"text":"十年動漲的這樣的一個情況"},{"start":279.4,"end":282.8,"text":"那這個圖表讓大家看其實非常的清楚"},{"start":282.90000000000003,"end":286.40000000000003,"text":"我們勞保最高級距45800"},{"start":286.40000000000003,"end":289.1,"text":"這十年來是從未調整"},{"start":289.1,"end":291.6,"text":"但是我們的樓地板是有在調的"},{"start":291.6,"end":292.8,"text":"我們最低工資"},{"start":292.8,"end":296,"text":"我們從2008元一直調整"},{"start":296,"end":298.8,"text":"到現在是29500"},{"start":298.8,"end":301.6,"text":"那這個可能勞動部"},{"start":301.6,"end":303.3,"text":"待會可能要給大家一個說法"},{"start":303.3,"end":306.3,"text":"這個事實上我有之前在委員會質詢過"},{"start":306.3,"end":308.40000000000003,"text":"就是只調樓地板"},{"start":308.40000000000003,"end":310.6,"text":"完全不調天花板"},{"start":310.70000000000005,"end":313.40000000000003,"text":"那像剛剛這個理事長所提到的"},{"start":313.40000000000003,"end":315.20000000000005,"text":"華儲公會理事長所提到的"},{"start":315.20000000000005,"end":319.90000000000003,"text":"就是說這個對照現在勞工的薪資的狀況"},{"start":319.90000000000003,"end":323.40000000000003,"text":"顯然這一個天花板不再是天花板"},{"start":323.40000000000003,"end":325.70000000000005,"text":"會不會未來也快要變成樓地板"},{"start":325.70000000000005,"end":327.90000000000003,"text":"那這個是大家要去看見的問題"},{"start":327.90000000000003,"end":329.8,"text":"就是政府不能脫尿"},{"start":329.8,"end":332.6,"text":"那當然我知道這樣的一個調整"},{"start":332.6,"end":335.6,"text":"會涉及到資方的支出"},{"start":335.6,"end":338.3,"text":"還有將來這個勞保基金的支出"},{"start":338.3,"end":341.2,"text":"但是我們的改革就是改到合理"},{"start":341.2,"end":343.40000000000003,"text":"我們也沒有要你調到非常高"},{"start":343.40000000000003,"end":344.90000000000003,"text":"但是完全都不動"},{"start":344.90000000000003,"end":346.1,"text":"事實上這個也是不對"},{"start":346.1,"end":349.2,"text":"就完全不符合現在的情況"},{"start":349.2,"end":351.6,"text":"那所以不能只調樓地板"},{"start":351.6,"end":353,"text":"天花板都不動"},{"start":353,"end":354.90000000000003,"text":"因為最近勞動部也提到"},{"start":354.90000000000003,"end":356.40000000000003,"text":"救保基金的部分"},{"start":356.40000000000003,"end":359.2,"text":"有想要打開這個天花板的部分"},{"start":359.2,"end":362.90000000000003,"text":"但是勞保這邊其實是不敢去動的"},{"start":362.90000000000003,"end":365.8,"text":"但我認為勞動部應該找專家學者"},{"start":365.8,"end":368,"text":"大家好好的來研議"},{"start":368,"end":370.1,"text":"這個應該要怎麼去做"},{"start":370.1,"end":372.8,"text":"那另外就是今天有很多人提到的"},{"start":372.8,"end":375.6,"text":"勞退薪資 勞退提撥率"},{"start":375.6,"end":380.7,"text":"現在就是也是6%凍結21年這個問題"},{"start":380.7,"end":384.40000000000003,"text":"這個一樣就是關乎勞工的退休金"},{"start":384.40000000000003,"end":386,"text":"那這個部分都不打開"},{"start":386,"end":387.3,"text":"我個人覺得不合理"},{"start":387.3,"end":389.8,"text":"但是打開的級距應該到多少"},{"start":389.8,"end":391,"text":"是不是能一步到位"},{"start":391,"end":392.6,"text":"還是逐年調升"},{"start":392.6,"end":394.5,"text":"我覺得勞動部一定有辦法"},{"start":394.5,"end":396,"text":"找更多的專家學者"},{"start":396,"end":397.6,"text":"還有我們工會的代表"},{"start":397.6,"end":399.1,"text":"大家坐下來好好談"},{"start":399.1,"end":401.1,"text":"找到一個務實可行"},{"start":401.1,"end":403.2,"text":"然後可以持續前進的方法"},{"start":403.2,"end":405.7,"text":"我覺得這個應該是可以做的"},{"start":405.7,"end":407.1,"text":"那國民黨立院黨團"},{"start":407.1,"end":409.4,"text":"剛剛蘇裕長林佩祥也有提到"},{"start":409.4,"end":410.8,"text":"國民黨團我們是支持"},{"start":410.8,"end":411.6,"text":"應該要調整"},{"start":411.6,"end":414.2,"text":"要打開這一個上限的"},{"start":414.2,"end":415.8,"text":"不應該是完全凍結"},{"start":415.8,"end":417.3,"text":"那至於打開到哪裡"},{"start":417.3,"end":418.4,"text":"如何調"},{"start":418.4,"end":421.2,"text":"我覺得謝謝昭偉今天排的這個公聽會"},{"start":421.2,"end":422.4,"text":"那未來這個議題"},{"start":422.5,"end":424.5,"text":"我認為勞動部應該要再找"},{"start":424.5,"end":426,"text":"更多的專家學者"},{"start":426,"end":427.59999999999997,"text":"大家好好來演繹"},{"start":427.59999999999997,"end":430,"text":"因為台灣社會我們要進步嘛"},{"start":430,"end":431.59999999999997,"text":"那你不能把過去的規定"},{"start":431.59999999999997,"end":432.79999999999995,"text":"你現在可能會說"},{"start":432.79999999999995,"end":434,"text":"啊這個一調"},{"start":434,"end":436.5,"text":"就害怕未來這個勞保基金"},{"start":436.5,"end":439.09999999999997,"text":"會不會加劇他的支出"},{"start":439.09999999999997,"end":440.7,"text":"但是你兩邊都要調整"},{"start":440.7,"end":441.4,"text":"你基金那邊"},{"start":441.4,"end":443.29999999999995,"text":"你要想辦法再去開源"},{"start":443.29999999999995,"end":444.9,"text":"然後合理的調整"},{"start":444.9,"end":446.29999999999995,"text":"合理的級距調整"},{"start":446.29999999999995,"end":447.4,"text":"你也是必要的"},{"start":447.4,"end":449.09999999999997,"text":"所以我就不能說"},{"start":449.09999999999997,"end":450.9,"text":"這個以不變應萬變"},{"start":450.9,"end":453.5,"text":"應該是要該怎麼調整"},{"start":453.5,"end":456.2,"text":"那今天這個這麼多公會的代表"},{"start":456.2,"end":456.79999999999995,"text":"在這邊哦"},{"start":456.79999999999995,"end":459.09999999999997,"text":"這個也是他們非常強烈的訴求"},{"start":459.09999999999997,"end":460.79999999999995,"text":"那我覺得今天市長"},{"start":460.79999999999995,"end":462,"text":"也還有關"},{"start":462,"end":464.29999999999995,"text":"就是相關的官員都坐在現場"},{"start":464.29999999999995,"end":465.5,"text":"聽這麼多"},{"start":465.5,"end":466.59999999999997,"text":"我想聽完之後"},{"start":466.59999999999997,"end":468,"text":"就是要有行動"},{"start":468,"end":469.09999999999997,"text":"那我具體建議"},{"start":469.09999999999997,"end":470.79999999999995,"text":"還應該要再召開這個"},{"start":470.79999999999995,"end":472,"text":"專家學者會議"},{"start":472,"end":473.79999999999995,"text":"找大家來怎麼調整"},{"start":473.79999999999995,"end":475.5,"text":"我們再往前踏出一步"},{"start":475.5,"end":477,"text":"這樣子以上謝謝"},{"start":477,"end":479.2,"text":"好謝謝王雁民委員的諮詢"},{"start":480.9,"end":484.9,"text":"現在請林昭臻研究員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}