{"error":false,"id":["170704"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170704,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170704","日期":"2026-07-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"公聽會-2026071639","會議代碼:str":"舉行「勞退新舊制相關修法」公聽會","屆":11,"會期":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"公聽會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「勞退新舊制相關修法」公聽會）"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-23T11:41:37+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-23T11:48:42+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:05","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7cefb85d66825e78ce4d19fd09f323b41fe01d9cd20695b3669a48ea8244716a2bfe832c71c1a02f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"11:41:37 - 11:48:42","會議時間":"2026-07-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「勞退新舊制相關修法」公聽會）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.87471875,"end":47.837843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.97284375,"end":191.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.73096875000002,"end":279.61596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.20659375,"end":417.21471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":418.42971875,"end":421.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":422.26034375,"end":424.80846875000003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":3.84,"text":"這今年五一勞工大遊行的訴求"},{"start":3.84,"end":7.28,"text":"大多聚焦在勞保跟勞退的權益制度改善"},{"start":7.28,"end":8.84,"text":"這些我們都清楚"},{"start":8.84,"end":11.78,"text":"這大概是勞工政策非常大的一個深水區"},{"start":11.78,"end":13.38,"text":"但本行一向主張"},{"start":13.38,"end":14.98,"text":"我們不能因為它是深水區"},{"start":14.98,"end":16.48,"text":"所以就果足不前"},{"start":16.48,"end":17.88,"text":"所以在五一當天"},{"start":17.88,"end":21.38,"text":"我代表國民黨黨團到這個活動的會場"},{"start":21.38,"end":23.080000000000002,"text":"跟我們的勞工朋友站在一起"},{"start":23.080000000000002,"end":26.76,"text":"當然承諾希望安排我們溝通協調"},{"start":26.76,"end":29.560000000000002,"text":"我們衛防委員會來做公聽會"},{"start":29.619999999999997,"end":31.56,"text":"先走 聽一聽大家的意見"},{"start":31.56,"end":33.96,"text":"讓勞工的聲音在立法院能夠充分的表達"},{"start":33.96,"end":35.72,"text":"同時本黨非常多的成員"},{"start":35.72,"end":37.82,"text":"也非常積極的在參與提案"},{"start":37.82,"end":40.6,"text":"我們都希望藉此督促政府"},{"start":40.6,"end":42.739999999999995,"text":"要正視勞工的權益問題"},{"start":42.739999999999995,"end":43.9,"text":"所以在此開場的時候"},{"start":43.9,"end":46,"text":"我們要特別謝謝盧縣一招委"},{"start":46,"end":48,"text":"今天安排今天的公聽會"},{"start":48,"end":51.04,"text":"算是初步回應廣大的勞工朋友們的訴求"},{"start":51.04,"end":52.18,"text":"今天公聽會的重點"},{"start":52.18,"end":56.879999999999995,"text":"大概分成勞保跟勞退兩個階段來做處理"},{"start":56.879999999999995,"end":59.28,"text":"稍早我在辦公室聽了非常多先進前輩"},{"start":59.300000000000004,"end":62.300000000000004,"text":"以及勞工團體代表的不同的意見"},{"start":62.300000000000004,"end":63.88,"text":"這我想針對勞保的部分"},{"start":63.88,"end":66.54,"text":"大家當然都非常在乎勞工權益的提升"},{"start":66.54,"end":71.52,"text":"但是如何兼顧勞保的永續跟財政相關的紀律"},{"start":71.52,"end":73.52,"text":"這個概念都是非常可貴的"},{"start":73.52,"end":74.62,"text":"但是我也要講"},{"start":74.62,"end":76.62,"text":"過去我們都提到少子化"},{"start":76.62,"end":80.02000000000001,"text":"很有可能會造成財務跟結構失衡的問題"},{"start":80.02000000000001,"end":81.02000000000001,"text":"這都沒有錯的"},{"start":81.02000000000001,"end":82.36,"text":"但我也必須要談一下"},{"start":82.36,"end":84.56,"text":"要幫廣大的基層勞工朋友喊喊聲"},{"start":84.56,"end":85.2,"text":"為什麼呢"},{"start":85.2,"end":87.2,"text":"因為過去20年甚至30年"},{"start":87.36,"end":89.56,"text":"過去當中還沒有少子化問題的時候"},{"start":89.56,"end":91.96000000000001,"text":"顯然我們每次在觸碰勞保議題的時候"},{"start":91.96000000000001,"end":95.2,"text":"恐怕政府的節奏也好或者是動作也好"},{"start":95.2,"end":97.2,"text":"恐怕都還是相對保守的"},{"start":97.2,"end":99.44,"text":"在過去條件相對好的時候"},{"start":99.44,"end":100.7,"text":"我們沒有大刀闊斧的"},{"start":100.7,"end":103.44,"text":"來擴充勞工朋友的福利"},{"start":103.44,"end":105.04,"text":"到現在壓力很大的時候又講"},{"start":105.04,"end":107.34,"text":"現在因為少子化壓力又要果足不前"},{"start":107.34,"end":110.42,"text":"我想這個強度是不足以推翻"},{"start":110.42,"end":111.68,"text":"這是必須被檢討"},{"start":111.68,"end":113.18,"text":"必須被精進的這樣一個做法"},{"start":113.18,"end":114.22,"text":"這是本席的立場"},{"start":114.22,"end":115.86,"text":"我們希望大家可以集資廣益"},{"start":115.88,"end":118.22,"text":"當然可以有很多很好的配套措施"},{"start":118.22,"end":120.22,"text":"但是該往上走的還是要往上走"},{"start":120.22,"end":124.02,"text":"這我想是大部分勞工朋友心中真實的期望"},{"start":124.02,"end":127.1,"text":"那麼相對於勞保的議題"},{"start":127.1,"end":127.9,"text":"勞退的問題"},{"start":127.9,"end":129.6,"text":"我知道聽了一下工廳會的內容"},{"start":129.6,"end":131.6,"text":"相對來講應該是比較聚焦的"},{"start":131.6,"end":133.84,"text":"大部分都認為既然是勞退"},{"start":133.84,"end":135.9,"text":"取之於勞工自己"},{"start":135.9,"end":139.2,"text":"自願提繳的部分跟雇主相應提繳的部分"},{"start":139.2,"end":142.18,"text":"不牽涉相關政府財政"},{"start":142.18,"end":144.12,"text":"跟少子化等等的問題的時候"},{"start":144.14000000000001,"end":146.14000000000001,"text":"大家反而心態上是比較開放的"},{"start":146.14000000000001,"end":149.34,"text":"所以不妨在未來修法的時候可以先行對焦"},{"start":149.34,"end":151.42000000000002,"text":"有共識的我們總可以先走"},{"start":151.42000000000002,"end":153.42000000000002,"text":"今天早上我們很多勞團的朋友"},{"start":153.42000000000002,"end":155.32,"text":"也在立法院的門口喊出"},{"start":155.32,"end":159.96,"text":"20年了還在6%的無奈的怒吼"},{"start":159.96,"end":162.06,"text":"這個%不是百分之幾%數的%"},{"start":162.06,"end":163.36,"text":"是%在地上的%"},{"start":163.36,"end":165.70000000000002,"text":"這次聽起來是蠻心酸的"},{"start":165.70000000000002,"end":167.86,"text":"讓人感到無比的沉重跟愧疚"},{"start":167.86,"end":171.84,"text":"勞退新制從2005年上路到現在"},{"start":171.86,"end":173.86,"text":"真正走過了20個年頭"},{"start":173.86,"end":176.36,"text":"20年前我們政府跟勞工朋友說"},{"start":176.36,"end":179.04,"text":"我們先求有再求好"},{"start":179.04,"end":181.9,"text":"但是這個有了之後求好的過程"},{"start":181.9,"end":183.9,"text":"一路掙扎了20年"},{"start":183.9,"end":186.94,"text":"700多萬名勞工朋友的這個老年保障"},{"start":186.94,"end":189.18,"text":"就硬生生凍結在百分之6"},{"start":189.18,"end":191.18,"text":"所以他講這6%是%在地上的%"},{"start":191.18,"end":193.88,"text":"那我不妨看看最近的經濟數據"},{"start":193.88,"end":196.42000000000002,"text":"主計總數預估今年GDP成長率"},{"start":196.42000000000002,"end":198.22,"text":"高達9.64%"},{"start":198.22,"end":201.02,"text":"我們都很高興台灣的這個經濟狀況"},{"start":201.10000000000002,"end":202.78,"text":"總體經濟欣欣向榮"},{"start":202.78,"end":204.34,"text":"這創下16年的新高"},{"start":204.34,"end":205.98000000000002,"text":"新制條不看起來風光"},{"start":205.98000000000002,"end":209.02,"text":"但是這些所謂的經濟成長的果實"},{"start":209.02,"end":212.48000000000002,"text":"真的有分配給我們基層勞工朋友嗎"},{"start":212.48000000000002,"end":213.32000000000002,"text":"顯然沒有"},{"start":213.32000000000002,"end":215.48000000000002,"text":"勞工朋友尤其是基層辛苦的"},{"start":215.48000000000002,"end":217.88,"text":"反而面對的是通膨吃掉了薪水"},{"start":217.88,"end":219.08,"text":"物價的飛漲"},{"start":219.08,"end":221.62,"text":"我國消費者物價指數CPI"},{"start":221.62,"end":224.76000000000002,"text":"以2021年為100的基期"},{"start":224.76000000000002,"end":227.60000000000002,"text":"在2005年的時候是85.65"},{"start":227.60000000000002,"end":230.76000000000002,"text":"到上個月為止是112.01"},{"start":230.78,"end":233.44,"text":"也就是從勞退新制上路到現在"},{"start":233.44,"end":236.17999999999998,"text":"物價整整上漲30%"},{"start":236.17999999999998,"end":239.22,"text":"全台灣有高達7成接近600萬名基層勞工"},{"start":239.22,"end":241.72,"text":"現在是連平均新制恐怕都領不到"},{"start":241.72,"end":244.35999999999999,"text":"如果用現行的6%的提繳率去計算"},{"start":244.35999999999999,"end":245.39999999999998,"text":"工作25年"},{"start":245.39999999999998,"end":248,"text":"有一半以上的勞工退休金專戶"},{"start":248,"end":249.32,"text":"存不到100萬"},{"start":249.32,"end":251.29999999999998,"text":"請問這樣真的能夠保障"},{"start":251.29999999999998,"end":254.23999999999998,"text":"退休之後的安穩生活嗎"},{"start":254.23999999999998,"end":255.29999999999998,"text":"這樣子的一個狀況"},{"start":255.29999999999998,"end":256.5,"text":"這樣一個殘忍的數據"},{"start":256.5,"end":257.94,"text":"表示我們的政府跟資方"},{"start":257.94,"end":260.03999999999996,"text":"把所有老後貧窮的風險"},{"start":260.06,"end":263.6,"text":"通通轉嫁給辛苦的基層勞工自行承擔"},{"start":263.6,"end":267,"text":"台灣的經濟成長是大家通力合作"},{"start":267,"end":269.3,"text":"辛勤的汗水跟勞動換來的"},{"start":269.3,"end":270.84000000000003,"text":"經濟成長的果實"},{"start":270.84000000000003,"end":272.84000000000003,"text":"不應該只能留在資本家的口袋"},{"start":272.84000000000003,"end":274.08000000000004,"text":"分配的正義"},{"start":274.08000000000004,"end":276.18,"text":"我想是政府的很重要的一個責任"},{"start":276.18,"end":279.48,"text":"我想就從提高勞退的提繳率開始"},{"start":279.48,"end":281.18,"text":"勞工退休金制度"},{"start":281.18,"end":284.38,"text":"是我國多層次經濟安全保障制度的其中一環"},{"start":284.38,"end":285.62,"text":"物價逐年增長"},{"start":285.62,"end":288.46000000000004,"text":"本來就應該適時的檢討跟調整"},{"start":288.46000000000004,"end":289.42,"text":"我們很清楚"},{"start":289.44,"end":292.74,"text":"當然提高提繳率對雇主來講難免負擔"},{"start":292.74,"end":294.24,"text":"本席提出的修正查案"},{"start":294.24,"end":296.04,"text":"每年0.5%往上加"},{"start":296.04,"end":298.38,"text":"逐步上調至9%"},{"start":298.38,"end":300.42,"text":"這個設定最終上限"},{"start":300.42,"end":303.52000000000004,"text":"兼顧勞工老年的經濟安全保障"},{"start":303.52000000000004,"end":305.36,"text":"及減輕營運負擔衝擊"},{"start":305.36,"end":306.96000000000004,"text":"當然現在立法院我也要提"},{"start":306.96000000000004,"end":309.86,"text":"跨黨派有十幾個修法的版本"},{"start":309.86,"end":313.8,"text":"有了8% 有了9% 有了10% 12%甚至15%"},{"start":313.8,"end":315.20000000000005,"text":"版本再多啊"},{"start":315.20000000000005,"end":317.40000000000003,"text":"如果不排案不審查"},{"start":317.40000000000003,"end":319.14,"text":"那終究是原地踏步"},{"start":319.15999999999997,"end":320.76,"text":"對勞工朋友來說都是空話"},{"start":320.76,"end":322.5,"text":"所以本席最重要在今天"},{"start":322.5,"end":324,"text":"特別出席公聽會表態"},{"start":324,"end":326.26,"text":"我支持競速的排案審查"},{"start":326.26,"end":329.24,"text":"讓社會積極對話才有進步的動力"},{"start":329.24,"end":331.18,"text":"我對於版本最後的走向"},{"start":331.18,"end":332.68,"text":"心態保持開放"},{"start":332.68,"end":334.78,"text":"只要對基層勞工有利"},{"start":334.78,"end":337.38,"text":"我們都樂見往前走"},{"start":337.38,"end":340.82,"text":"今天參加公聽會做出三點聲明"},{"start":340.82,"end":343.68,"text":"第一 本席堅定支持修法"},{"start":343.68,"end":346.56,"text":"提高雇主法定最低提繳率"},{"start":346.56,"end":348.36,"text":"這不是給勞工的恩惠"},{"start":348.38,"end":351.38,"text":"這是勞工期盼二十年來基本的公道"},{"start":351.38,"end":354.66,"text":"第二 我們希望能夠積極的促進排案"},{"start":354.66,"end":356.72,"text":"我們知道未完委員會這個會期"},{"start":356.72,"end":358.32,"text":"非常非常的忙碌"},{"start":358.32,"end":359.6,"text":"但我想再怎麼忙碌"},{"start":359.6,"end":361.46000000000004,"text":"勞工權益我們還是要往前走"},{"start":361.46000000000004,"end":362.3,"text":"所以希望"},{"start":362.3,"end":363.90000000000003,"text":"我會在我們政黨的委員會"},{"start":363.90000000000003,"end":365.54,"text":"跟黨團會議裡面持續的建議"},{"start":365.54,"end":366.46000000000004,"text":"持續的要求"},{"start":366.46000000000004,"end":368.84000000000003,"text":"希望競速將勞退條例十四條修正案"},{"start":368.84000000000003,"end":370.24,"text":"排入實質審查"},{"start":370.24,"end":372.54,"text":"不要讓法案再躺在立法院的抽屜裡"},{"start":372.54,"end":375.34000000000003,"text":"第三 這既然很多委員"},{"start":375.35999999999996,"end":378.65999999999997,"text":"跨黨派的委員都提了相關的修正案"},{"start":378.65999999999997,"end":381.59999999999997,"text":"我們希望朝野在這樣子的民生法案上面"},{"start":381.59999999999997,"end":383.44,"text":"可以攜手努力"},{"start":383.44,"end":385.44,"text":"不要有太多的政治算計"},{"start":385.44,"end":388.29999999999995,"text":"共同以勞工退休的權益為最優先"},{"start":388.29999999999995,"end":389.94,"text":"希望在這一屆之內"},{"start":389.94,"end":392.67999999999995,"text":"可以讓勞退的調整跟製度的改革"},{"start":392.67999999999995,"end":394.58,"text":"可以順利的完成三讀"},{"start":394.58,"end":395.88,"text":"勞工沒有奉獻青春"},{"start":395.88,"end":398.38,"text":"為台灣拼出經濟奇蹟"},{"start":398.38,"end":400.85999999999996,"text":"我想勞隊新制的提高不能再等"},{"start":400.85999999999996,"end":402.52,"text":"今天是改變的開始"},{"start":402.52,"end":404.55999999999995,"text":"本席樂見社會提出對話"},{"start":404.58,"end":406.32,"text":"提出完善的配套措施"},{"start":406.32,"end":408.12,"text":"我們呼籲政府不要迴避問題"},{"start":408.12,"end":411.66,"text":"我們趕快正面積極的回應勞工朋友訴求"},{"start":411.66,"end":413.36,"text":"讓經濟成長的果實"},{"start":413.36,"end":416.46,"text":"成為勞工老年照顧最堅強的後盾"},{"start":416.46,"end":418.46,"text":"以上感謝"},{"start":418.46,"end":422.3,"text":"謝謝 劉學廷委員的發言"},{"start":422.3,"end":424.8,"text":"接下來請侯越弘教授"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}