{"error":false,"id":["170710"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170710,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170710","日期":"2026-07-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-5-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期第19次會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"第11屆第5會期第19次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-24T15:41:26+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-24T15:43:42+08:00","影片長度":"00:02:16","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e8f3734904ec35508a6333312c87664f00321a5c2e792cdf858b84824fc03604bb28968e9245ab7d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"15:41:26 - 15:43:42","會議時間":"2026-07-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第5會期第19次會議（事由：討論事項：本院國民黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「針對『中聯油脂致癌毒油襲台』連環爆事件，國人迄今看不到真相，政府企圖蓋牌，並意欲甩鍋地方政府，爰要求賴卓政府比照103年頂新油事件標準儘速處理，未全面查明流向與真相前，不得讓問題油品重新上架，以安民心，並儘速建立退貨及補償機制。」是否有當？請公決案等6案。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":5.262218750000001,"end":12.73784375,"speaker_score":0.936},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":13.024718750000002,"end":127.30221875000001,"speaker_score":0.936},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":128.01096875000002,"end":130.27221875,"speaker_score":0.936},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":131.09909375,"end":131.89221875,"speaker_score":0.936},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":132.22971875000002,"end":135.08159375,"speaker_score":0.936},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"范委員雲","start":135.67221875,"end":136.21221875,"speaker_score":0.936}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":7.2,"text":"我們反對未來帳戶"},{"start":7.2,"end":9.72,"text":"因為它是一個修修補補"},{"start":9.72,"end":12.72,"text":"一遍再變問題重重的立法"},{"start":12.72,"end":14.52,"text":"我想大家都知道"},{"start":14.52,"end":17.28,"text":"行政院已經有明年就上路的"},{"start":17.28,"end":19.92,"text":"零到十八歲的兒少成長津貼"},{"start":19.92,"end":22.12,"text":"可是呢我們看到藍白"},{"start":22.12,"end":24.72,"text":"不甘於行政院做得太好"},{"start":24.72,"end":27.16,"text":"所以呢把自己的版本拿出來"},{"start":27.16,"end":28.16,"text":"一遍再變"},{"start":28.2,"end":30.56,"text":"他有幾個非常嚴重的問題"},{"start":30.56,"end":31.72,"text":"第一個問題"},{"start":31.72,"end":35.12,"text":"他立法說要解決跨世代貧富差距"},{"start":35.12,"end":37.64,"text":"結果呢這個目標當然很好"},{"start":37.64,"end":39.96,"text":"但是手段完全相反"},{"start":39.96,"end":42.04,"text":"他在家長自存款的部分"},{"start":42.04,"end":43.44,"text":"加大貧富差距"},{"start":43.44,"end":45.519999999999996,"text":"而且違反租稅公平"},{"start":45.519999999999996,"end":46.68,"text":"大家看一下"},{"start":46.68,"end":50.16,"text":"他讓家長可以為小孩增加投資"},{"start":50.16,"end":51.480000000000004,"text":"得到減稅"},{"start":51.480000000000004,"end":54.72,"text":"然後還可以得到利息"},{"start":54.72,"end":57.64,"text":"他讓企業一年還可以再為他"},{"start":57.64,"end":60.2,"text":"小孩家長捐五萬"},{"start":60.2,"end":61.2,"text":"存五萬"},{"start":61.2,"end":64.08,"text":"所以呢他在公聽會的時候"},{"start":64.08,"end":65.76,"text":"非常多的社福學者都說"},{"start":65.76,"end":67.4,"text":"這是逆分配"},{"start":67.4,"end":69.8,"text":"藍白宣稱是學英國的例子"},{"start":69.8,"end":71.28,"text":"可是藍白不知道"},{"start":71.28,"end":73.76,"text":"英國2005年提出來之後"},{"start":73.76,"end":76.64,"text":"2011年就被取消廢除"},{"start":76.64,"end":77.88,"text":"因為大家都看到"},{"start":77.88,"end":80,"text":"他擴大了貧富差距"},{"start":80,"end":82.12,"text":"而且他宣稱的家長"},{"start":82.12,"end":84.2,"text":"從一開始可以存十萬"},{"start":84.2,"end":86.68,"text":"學者說這會使得貧富差距"},{"start":86.68,"end":88.12,"text":"變成兩百萬"},{"start":88.12,"end":90,"text":"結果民眾黨再修之後"},{"start":90,"end":91.24000000000001,"text":"變成二十萬"},{"start":91.24000000000001,"end":93.60000000000001,"text":"今天早上我們反對的是二十萬"},{"start":93.60000000000001,"end":95.32000000000001,"text":"到剛剛我們投的是"},{"start":95.32000000000001,"end":97.48,"text":"家長無限制存款"},{"start":97.48,"end":99.64000000000001,"text":"所以差距無限大"},{"start":99.64000000000001,"end":100.68,"text":"到底是利息"},{"start":100.68,"end":101.80000000000001,"text":"稅收要多少"},{"start":101.80000000000001,"end":102.92000000000002,"text":"沒有人知道"},{"start":102.92000000000002,"end":104.72,"text":"所以我們從預算法的角度"},{"start":104.72,"end":105.68,"text":"我們反對"},{"start":105.68,"end":106.96000000000001,"text":"從設計的角度"},{"start":106.96000000000001,"end":108.04,"text":"他也不辯明"},{"start":108.04,"end":110.56,"text":"最後條文還充滿了缺陷"},{"start":110.56,"end":112.68,"text":"隨便舉一個二十一條"},{"start":112.68,"end":114.52000000000001,"text":"他讓所謂的家長"},{"start":114.52000000000001,"end":116.44000000000001,"text":"違反兒少權法等等"},{"start":117.32,"end":117.92,"text":"收回"},{"start":117.92,"end":119.67999999999999,"text":"幾乎實務上不可能"},{"start":119.67999999999999,"end":121.64,"text":"最後我們支持行政院"},{"start":121.64,"end":123.64,"text":"明年就上路的零到十八歲"},{"start":123.64,"end":124.72,"text":"兒少成長"},{"start":124.72,"end":125.84,"text":"捐父成長"},{"start":125.84,"end":128,"text":"保兒少幸福"},{"start":128,"end":129.76,"text":"謝謝范宇偉的發言"},{"start":129.76,"end":131.12,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":131.12,"end":132.32,"text":"好 報告院會"},{"start":132.32,"end":135.72,"text":"我們現在開始進行討論事項第二案"},{"start":135.72,"end":136.12,"text":"公路法案"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-24T15:41:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-24T15:41:38.447273+08:00","text":"我們反對未來帳戶，因為它是一個修修補補、一變再變、問題重重的立法。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-24T15:41:38.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-24T15:41:53.910000+08:00","text":"我想大家都知道，行政院已經有明年就上路的0到18歲的兒少成長津貼，可是我們看到藍白不甘於行政院做得太好，所以把自己的版本拿出來，一變再變。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-24T15:41:54.414545+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-24T15:42:01.578182+08:00","text":"它有幾個非常嚴重的問題，第一個問題，它立法說要解決跨世代貧富差距，結果呢？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-24T15:42:01.807273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-24T15:42:11.260000+08:00","text":"這個目標當然很好，但是手段完全相反，它在家長自存款的部分加大貧富差距，而且違反租稅公平。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-24T15:42:11.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-24T15:42:33.072000+08:00","text":"大家看一下，它讓家長可以為小孩增加投資、得到減稅，然後還可以得到利息，它讓企業一年還可以再為小孩家長捐5萬、存5萬，所以在公聽會的時候，非常多社福學者都說這是逆分配。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-24T15:42:33.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-24T15:43:08.696000+08:00","text":"藍白宣稱是學英國的例子，可是藍白不知道英國2005年提出來之後，2011年就被取消、廢除，因為大家都看到它擴大了貧富差距，而且它宣稱的家長從一開始可以存10萬，學者說這會使得貧富差距變成200萬，結果民眾黨再修之後變成20萬，今天早上我們反對的是20萬，到剛剛我們投的是家長無限制存款，所以差距無限大，到底利息、稅收要多少沒有人知道。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-24T15:43:08.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-24T15:43:25.460000+08:00","text":"所以從預算法的角度，我們反對，從設計的角度，它也不便民，最後條文還充滿了缺陷，隨便舉一個第二十一條，它讓所謂的家長違反兒少權法等等會收回，幾乎實務上不可能。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"范委員雲","start":"2026-07-24T15:43:25.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-24T15:43:33.568000+08:00","text":"最後，我們支持行政院明年就上路的0到18歲兒少成長，均富成長、保兒少幸福！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:43:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-24T15:43:36.440000+08:00","text":"謝謝范雲委員的發言，謝謝。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:43:37.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-24T15:43:41.493333+08:00","text":"報告院會，我們現在開始進行討論事項第二案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:43:41.993333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-24T15:43:49.993333+08:00","text":"二、(一)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:43:50.293333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-24T15:43:58.007619+08:00","text":"(二)本院委員黃健豪等19人擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:43:58.307619+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-24T15:44:06.021905+08:00","text":"(三)本院委員林倩綺等21人擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:44:06.321905+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-24T15:44:14.036190+08:00","text":"(四)本院委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:44:14.336190+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-24T15:44:22.050476+08:00","text":"(五)本院委員林倩綺等19人擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:44:22.350476+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-24T15:44:32.921905+08:00","text":"（以上五案經提本院第11屆第5會期第18次會議併案討論決議：請院長召集協商，協商後再行處理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:44:33.221905+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-24T15:44:36.079048+08:00","text":"爰於本次會議繼續討論。）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:44:36.379048+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-24T15:44:44.093333+08:00","text":"(六)本院委員林俊憲等27人擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:44:44.393333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-24T15:44:53.536190+08:00","text":"（本案經提本院第11屆第5會期第19次會議報告決定：逕付二讀，與相關提案併案討論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-24T15:44:53.836190+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-24T15:44:56.693333+08:00","text":"爰於本次會議提出討論。）","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":757,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（15時41分）我們反對未來帳戶，因為它是一個修修補補、一變再變、問題重重的立法。我想大家都知道，行政院已經有明年就上路的0到18歲的兒少成長津貼，可是我們看到藍白不甘於行政院做得太好，所以把自己的版本拿出來，一變再變。它有幾個非常嚴重的問題，第一個問題，它立法說要解決跨世代貧富差距，結果呢？這個目標當然很好，但是手段完全相反，它在家長自存款的部分加大貧富差距，而且違反租稅公平。大家看一下，它讓家長可以為小孩增加投資、得到減稅，然後還可以得到利息，它讓企業一年還可以再為小孩家長捐5萬、存5萬，所以在公聽會的時候，非常多社福學者都說這是逆分配。藍白宣稱是學英國的例子，可是藍白不知道英國2005年提出來之後，2011年就被取消、廢除，因為大家都看到它擴大了貧富差距，而且它宣稱的家長從一開始可以存10萬，學者說這會使得貧富差距變成200萬，結果民眾黨再修之後變成20萬，今天早上我們反對的是20萬，到剛剛我們投的是家長無限制存款，所以差距無限大，到底利息、稅收要多少沒有人知道。所以從預算法的角度，我們反對，從設計的角度，它也不便民，最後條文還充滿了缺陷，隨便舉一個第二十一條，它讓所謂的家長違反兒少權法等等會收回，幾乎實務上不可能。最後，我們支持行政院明年就上路的0到18歲兒少成長，均富成長、保兒少幸福！"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員的發言，謝謝。","報告院會，我們現在開始進行討論事項第二案。","二、(一)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。","(二)本院委員黃健豪等19人擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。","(三)本院委員林倩綺等21人擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。","(四)本院委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。","(五)本院委員林倩綺等19人擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。（以上五案經提本院第11屆第5會期第18次會議併案討論決議：請院長召集協商，協商後再行處理。爰於本次會議繼續討論。）","(六)本院委員林俊憲等27人擬具「公路法部分條文修正草案」，請審議案。（本案經提本院第11屆第5會期第19次會議報告決定：逕付二讀，與相關提案併案討論。爰於本次會議提出討論。）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":95,"meet_id":"院會-11-5-19","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳菁徽","邱慧洳","范雲"],"page_start":24,"meetingDate":["2026-07-24"],"gazette_id":"1156201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156201_00002","1156201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期第19次會議紀錄","content":"討論事項\n臺灣兒少成長及未來帳戶條例─完成三讀─","agenda_id":"1156201_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}