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Amara.org 社群提供的字幕"},{"start":1488.149,"end":1493.677,"text":"好 初期委員已足法定人數現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1500.836,"end":1520.007,"text":"立法院第十一屆第四會期交通委員會第六次全體委員會議議事錄時間114年11月13日星期四上午9時至12時43分地點本院紅樓201會議室出席委員黃孟凱等15人列席委員賴會員等17人列席官員行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德等"},{"start":1520.567,"end":1537.366,"text":"主席李昭吉委員崑哲報告四項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定邀請行政院公共工程委員會列席報告業務概況並備質詢本日會議由行政院公共工程委員會主任委員曾經的報告後藉由委員洪孟凱等二十人提出質詢"},{"start":1538.567,"end":1539.427,"text":"好 請教各位委員對上次會議議事錄有沒有意見"},{"start":1563.49,"end":1591.771,"text":"好 沒有異見異事錄 確定現在介紹這場的委員首先介紹林國成委員好 我們李坤哲召委廖先祥委員好 介紹列席人員因為今天部會人數眾多我就介紹我們各部會的主要人員交通部政務次長 武聖元次長"},{"start":1595.353,"end":1623.485,"text":"那以及相關我們公路運輸司陸鎮道安司還有中和規劃司以及法治處的司長以及處長感謝公路局林福山局長鐵道局楊振軍局長運輸研究所王穆衡副所長不好意思謝謝觀光署黃和廷副署長"},{"start":1626.189,"end":1654.166,"text":"台鐵公司馮輝昇總經理高鐵公司楊曉天副總經理內政部國土管理署我們盧昭宏檢任政工程師警政署鐵道警察局廖國正副局長消防署救災救護組檢育淳專門委員"},{"start":1656.056,"end":1679.856,"text":"衛生福利部國民健康署我們陳立娟檢任濟政環境部化學物質管理署馮炳雄林炳雄主任秘書教育部中生教育司紀賢揚專門委員 謝謝法務部謝志明參事"},{"start":1685.802,"end":1706.429,"text":"司法院行政訴訟及懲戒廳林靜超法官勞動部職業安全衛生署職業安全組陳志祺副組長國家運輸安全調查委員會林佩達執行長援助民主委員會社會福利處洪林副處長好"},{"start":1716.021,"end":1741.121,"text":"本日會議進行審查道路交通管理處罰條例大眾捷運法及鐵路法等修正草案我們現在先請提案委員說明提案要旨目前首先請第一位李昆哲委員說明兩案一起唸那我們原則上以三分鐘為限好不好謝謝"},{"start":1744.735,"end":1753.695,"text":"我們針對鐵路法第56條之五的修正草案來做提案說明為全面提升我國鐵路運輸的基本安全"},{"start":1756.394,"end":1778.113,"text":"並與國際運輸業界接軌有必要明確將營業安全管理系統SMS導入鐵路法制國際上無論是相關的這些職安健康管理制度航空業的SMS或者是海運業以及歐盟鐵道業SMS的概念都已經明定"},{"start":1778.573,"end":1795.902,"text":"那相關的鐵路機構應該建置營運安全管理系統它的核心精神在於系統化的方法管理風險來強化組織的文化確保從管理階層到基層都能夠在制度的流程下來改善安全"},{"start":1797.283,"end":1817.416,"text":"2019年我國運輸研究所鐵路運輸安全管理系統SMS制度化策略之眼裡建立修訂鐵路法明確安全的這種管理系統的法源依據並藉由法令來強制規範要求鐵路機構應該建置安全的管理系統"},{"start":1818.357,"end":1842.523,"text":"那系統化來處理台鐵公司組織文化管理制度以及安全控管問題來確保營運機構由安全管理系統來持續改善安全的問題那避免這種根本性的避免事故來發生那基於上述的這些國際趨勢以及研究建議本次修法明定"},{"start":1843.423,"end":1860.371,"text":"鐵路機構應該建置營運安全管理系統並由交通部來訂定系統的範圍內容以及建置的相關細則使安全管理得以制度化 標準化本次修法將確保我國鐵路安全管理與國際的標準來接軌"},{"start":1862.992,"end":1885.188,"text":"那敦促相關單位鞏固自我監督持續改善的能力強化公共運輸的安全任性實現社會對鐵路安全治理的一種基本概念另外對於大眾捷運法第39條第43條第43條之一修正草案的提案說明那為強化大眾捷運系統之營運安全並回應"},{"start":1886.129,"end":1911.11,"text":"近年來相關的事故處理事件通報與營運機構自主安全管理能力不足等問題那這次修法的主旨是要全面的提升地方主管機關它的監理效能而且同時建立營運機構在事前準備事故調查紀錄保存以及自主改善上面的明確法定責任那修法增進授權使地方主管機關"},{"start":1913.432,"end":1938.869,"text":"辖管系统的运作风险要求营运机构制定并定期检讨行车事故及一场事故的应变计划同时增列营运机构必须提交年度安全管理系统安全管理报告保存运转以及保养记录等等的义务明确规范营运机构及其人员配合国家运输安全委员会的调查"},{"start":1939.429,"end":1958.122,"text":"以及運輸事故調查法的整合來確保這種重大事故的完整性他調查的完整性跟他的獨立性那另外要明定地方主管機關就非屬於運輸事故調查法就是所稱的重大事故之進行檢討與調查並依結果要求營運機構限期改善並依法"},{"start":1970.19,"end":1994.387,"text":"從業人員應配合調查所以本次修法將捷運安全管理推向更制度化的方向以上簡短的一個說明好 謝謝那我們依到場先後順序請第二位廖先祥委員提案說明是國城先到嗎行嗎剛剛同仁給我是"},{"start":1998.359,"end":2002.743,"text":"好抱歉那我們請台灣民眾黨黨團代表林郭成委員提案說明謝謝"},{"start":2008.993,"end":2031.747,"text":"好 謝謝主席我們所有的官員大家早我想因為本黨團以及本人對於台鐵對於鐵道的安全非常重視所以我是覺得最近屢屢發生種種的法令不足的情況之下所以"},{"start":2032.427,"end":2051.726,"text":"台灣民眾黨提出鐵路華56條之四跟67條之三跟68條之四的修訂所以特別來跟有關單位跟我們所有委員來做說明跟報告我們主要修訂56條之四"},{"start":2054.068,"end":2065.772,"text":"在主要的原因是因為職業衛生法之立法之精神所以修正鐵路法56條之四新增鐵路機構對於從業人員應採取安全之措施"},{"start":2074.235,"end":2091.043,"text":"也要有這些積極介入的責任所以我們本黨團提出鐵路華第56條之4的這些責任歸屬負擔的部分那另外我們還修67條之3"},{"start":2093.12,"end":2114.262,"text":"那六十七條之三是確實在這整個法令的不足情況之下每每發生事情的時候到最後只有口頭力挺嚴公但是訴求無策的精神確確實實是漏空所以"},{"start":2115.003,"end":2134.996,"text":"本黨團就修訂五十六條之四也就是要有積極義務針對鐵路機構若未採取安全授師或者為維護訓練的安全所以同步六十七條之三明定有所劃則"},{"start":2136.55,"end":2164.384,"text":"那這個是增加我們鐵道所有的機構不管是捷運也好不管是高鐵也好如果發生六十七條之三這些未保護之責任的時候那這個部分我想這個要有有所劃則增列這些劃則來給單位有所責任的分攤另外六十八條之四"},{"start":2165.762,"end":2179.861,"text":"明文規定也就是可以看得出來最近一年來台鐵公司發生了多少個這些戰務員工作人員被攻擊非常之嚴重"},{"start":2180.802,"end":2210.002,"text":"所以可想而知這就是說什麼兩者一個有法令而不執行這些確確實實是要新增鐵路法第68條之四用強迫之手段來做這些確保員工的這些執行公務的安全所以在這個部分我們還是要拜託鐵路的暴力 林榮仁"},{"start":2210.862,"end":2234.405,"text":"不分黨派大家共同支持所以以上台灣民眾黨提出這三個修法希望行政機關希望我們本院所有的委員來支持這以上三條的這些修法 謝謝好 謝謝林國成委員接下來再請廖先祥委員提案說明"},{"start":2244.963,"end":2271.863,"text":"好謝謝主席還有各位所有的好朋友大家早安那這一次我提出鐵道法第57條的一個修正案其實算是我第二次在這個檯面來跟大家報告說法的一個精神因為其實在上一次提的時候那上次的法條那我們交委會其實還沒有做成決議那為了讓法條更加的完完善這一次我再略做調整再重新重送一次修正案"},{"start":2272.904,"end":2277.447,"text":"大家都知道我們的鐵道為了提供公共運輸的服務為了確保軌道公共服務的安全因此有訂定的鐵路法來確保軌道或者是站體相關的一些規範避免外力的侵入影響公共運輸的安全這個是本來政府就應該要訂定的法律跟實務上面的需求"},{"start":2297.899,"end":2320.705,"text":"但是隨著時代的變遷 我們國家的鐵路大概分作兩塊一部分就是大家所熟悉的環島鐵路它大概就是一個電氣化的軌道這個班次非常的高 非常的密集 運輸量能非常的強但是同時也有一些支線 譬如說平溪線 集基線它其實已經跟過去我們所認知的公共運輸有一點落差"},{"start":2323.446,"end":2327.567,"text":"它更結合一些地方的一些觀光的精神在裡面包括它的通勤運輸的量能也沒有那麼的強了因此在包括早期的一些建築民眾在做一些開發行為的時候常常就是沒有那個到時候都市計畫法還沒有頒布的時候所以常常會造成大家都是經由鐵道的一個路線來做進出"},{"start":2348.953,"end":2354.356,"text":"所以也會出現之前有一些新聞包括山雕嶺瀑布民眾進出被罰錢的一個新聞或是包括這個在這個平溪縣釋放天燈結合地方觀光的一個行為被懲罰的一個情形那因此這次提出了鐵道法"},{"start":2365.703,"end":2382.21,"text":"就是希望針對這些非電氣化的一個鐵路那它已經可能結合地方的一個觀光或是民眾需求的一個部分我們在鐵道法把它做市路的放寬讓它能夠結合地方的一些民眾通行 疏散人潮發展觀光以及緊急救難或其他特殊需求的時候"},{"start":2382.89,"end":2406.913,"text":"得予以的放寬當然鐵道的運輸安全絕對是最重要的這個方針最高的一個指導原則但是我們在這個指導原則之下在一些特殊的一些個案或者是場域我們授權這個營運的單位他有權來訂定一些規範來讓地方的觀光能夠發展能夠讓地方的民眾沒有替代道路的時候他有通行的一個"},{"start":2408.354,"end":2432.821,"text":"合法的一個通行的一個道路 因此提出此次的修法那也趁今天這個機會 特別感謝交通部 包括鐵道局還有台鐵公司 其實原則上是支持這一次的修法 那也特別感謝因為這一次在平溪縣這個發生攤房 大家也知道發生攤房 在1月底之前是沒有辦法營運的那因應未來修法 可能做了一些鐵路放天燈"},{"start":2433.841,"end":2443.367,"text":"鐵路放天燈的一個措施在這個平溪線還沒有復始之前鐵道局以及台鐵公司也同意在這段時間從這個週末開始在從這個週末開始到1月底之前的每一個週末都來可以釋放來示範鐵道放天燈的一個觀光的行為同時它也算是一個修法前面正式合法化之前的一個示範的措施因為現在的鐵路已經沒有運行的B"},{"start":2461.258,"end":2474.524,"text":"已經目前沒有運行的需求那也沒有安全維護的一些問題那因此來做一個示範我在這邊也特別感謝 以上好 謝謝廖先生委員再來請黃建豪委員提案說明"},{"start":2485.509,"end":2497.474,"text":"好 謝謝主席以及各位官員 今天在場的官員今天本席提的是道交條例第90條修正的草案那這個問題本來是針對所謂的毒價的問題毒品價值的部分那當然毒品價值相關規範是規範在35條但是因為35條的規範寫得很明確問題是"},{"start":2503.793,"end":2529.393,"text":"實務上面對這個毒價問題會卡在我們第90條有一個於兩個月查獲於兩個月後沒辦法檢舉沒辦法舉發的實際上的問題所以我們跟很多第一線的警察同仁有聊到這個問題就是我們雖然警察很積極的檢舉去查獲光是今年1到9月份全國就查獲了將近5500件那這個數量已經是去年的兩倍可是依照目前的毒品的毒價的取締流程"},{"start":2529.853,"end":2552.667,"text":"他查獲疑似是用毒品的汽機車駕駛人之後他還是需要以尿檢的結果為主但實務上如果把尿檢結果再送去檢驗機關有時候一檢驗一來一往之間包含檢驗的量也好包含送進程序也好很多時候會超過兩個月的檢舉期間所以如果當毒品駕駛人員他的尿檢的結果兩個月後"},{"start":2554.488,"end":2579.877,"text":"警方才取得结果的时候那相关的这个举发的期间举发期间就届满了他就没办法处分所以违规者有机会借此来得以规避下报案调扣驾照吊销驾车相关的行政罚款我想也造成了执法漏洞也造成了我们的管理漏洞跟公安权的风险所以本期这边提出的90条的这个放宽的规定就把这个读驾排除在外另外在针对"},{"start":2580.757,"end":2599.79,"text":"定義明確一點說這針對的是測試檢定終結之日來起算來算所謂的兩月的期限而不是從舉發的當下來算兩月的期限那另外在司法院的這個報告裡面提到說到底是尿液採檢日送驗日確認檢驗報告日還是確認檢驗報告送達舉發機關日還是復檢報告日還是復驗報告送達舉發機關日為準我想這部分還是要尊重我們主管機關的這個相關的討論實務上到底怎麼做比較好"},{"start":2610.717,"end":2638.187,"text":"那當然本席就目前的觀點跟我從這個警方第一線的了解的情況下來講應該是確認檢驗報告送達舉發機關日來當作本席認為的測試檢定終結之作為這個起算比較適當因為我想這個檢驗報告如果送達期間又延誤中間造成的行政上的延誤可能也像一樣造成本來無法取締完成的結果所以本席提出這個道交條例處罰條例第90條的修正案"},{"start":2638.627,"end":2649.547,"text":"希望各位委員能夠支持 以上謝謝接下來我們請黃豐凱召委做提案說明"},{"start":2655.967,"end":2679.94,"text":"好 主席各位在場委員以及我們行政部門今天我們排定了道交公路法以及大眾捷運法總共有11位委員以及黨團的一個提案而剛剛看了一下總共高達8個部分都是由這個行政部門認為說同意支持這樣的一個修法代表我們修法實際有討論以及修法的一個必要性也因此我們希望是說能夠"},{"start":2680.72,"end":2692.634,"text":"就事論事好好的focus在我們大眾大家必須要面對到的一個修法議題上面其中本席提出來的這個鐵道法的鐵路法的一個相關修正最重要在於是"},{"start":2694.433,"end":2719.393,"text":"確實台鐵的從業人員遭受暴力攻擊已經是屢見不鮮尤其是我們在上一次討論完七起的一個暴力事件但這一個月又多了兩起甚至還有旅客揚言要殺副站長如果說我們現在沒有辦法增加保全能力而保護台鐵的執行人員的話那未來整個大眾運輸的缺工情況真的會雪上加霜也因此我們需要"},{"start":2719.873,"end":2738.429,"text":"有更強力的態度以及更明確的一個規範告訴大家台鐵從業人員以及我們所有大眾運輸的服務人員都是服務2350萬國內以及國際的觀光客但絕對不應該也絕對不容許任何人在"},{"start":2739.13,"end":2759.292,"text":"服刑的時候來做攻擊 謾罵或者是惡意騷擾肢體暴力這是交通委員會以及這是我們要展現出來的態度因此在這一次的核心修法內容裡面我們參酌了刑法的妨礙公務罪以及醫療法的妨礙醫療罪立法精神徵定明確的刑法 刑事法則"},{"start":2760.464,"end":2770.855,"text":"如果有暴力威脅恐嚇或其他的非法手段妨礙鐵路從業人員執勤職務的行為的話有一般罰則以及加重結果犯都"},{"start":2772.254,"end":2792.208,"text":"給予因為違反情節不同來給予相對應的一個刑責並且我們也受執法授權以及警察協助的部分那就是所謂的一個現場處理因為現在的旅客運輸契約其實已經有規定但沒有缺乏公權力以及缺乏執行效力"},{"start":2793.109,"end":2809.004,"text":"可能才會擔心造成旅客衍生更大的一個衝突也因此我們希望能夠將兩個規定來入法包括拒絕運送權以及鐵路警察協助機制來明確讓他入法總結來說本次的修法不只是給鐵路從業人員一個保護傘"},{"start":2811.747,"end":2834.396,"text":"更是向全體社會來宣示我們絕不容許任何危及公共運輸安全的暴力及脫序行為我想懇請各位以及我們行政部門大家共同來支持修正草案讓我們共同為鐵路從業人員創造一個安全尊嚴的執勤環境並且未來在大眾運輸的部分我們也都希望能夠擴及"},{"start":2835.416,"end":2857.592,"text":"大眾運輸工具 大眾運輸的服務每一個從業人員都是值得我們尊敬跟感謝的對象我們希望打造一個安全順利的一個執勤環境讓所有人都可以享受優質的大眾運輸的服務並且拒絕大眾運輸暴力及脫序行為以上 謝謝"},{"start":2874.721,"end":2883.095,"text":"好 現在所有的提案說明委員已經提案說明完畢 那再請列席機關報告 請交通部武聖元次長報告"},{"start":2892.553,"end":2911.212,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位女士先生今天應邀貴委員會就貴委員會審查邱委員若乏 徐委員富培柯委員之恩 黃委員建豪等委員擬拒道路交通管理處罰條例共識案的修正提案"},{"start":2912.173,"end":2933.966,"text":"邱委員 若樺 蔡委員 齊昌 李委員 崑哲等委員擬計大眾檢疫法共三案修正提案還有盧委員 憲一 台中民眾黨黨團李委員 崑哲 廖委員 仙翔 張委員 洪璐洪委員 孟凱等委員擬計鐵路法共六案修正提案提出本部處理的建議供貴委員會來參考"},{"start":2935.587,"end":2962.7,"text":"有關區委員若乏 徐委員富奎 柯委員智恩花園建豪等委員女性道路交通管理處罰條例部分第31條之一提高機車行駛道路以手持方式使用行動電話等有礙駕駛安全的行為以及汽車駕駛人的行駛道路手持香煙 吸食或點燃香煙等自影響他人行駛安全的一個處罰"},{"start":2964.462,"end":2976.042,"text":"建議維持現行的緩緩額度第79條大院114年10月28號剛三讀通過相同的處罰規定建議無需修正第86條增電"},{"start":2978.445,"end":3003.117,"text":"行經設有學校醫院標誌的路段不簡述慢行因而致這個人重傷或死亡依法應負刑事責任抵加其刑二分之一尊重貴人會議綜合審查結果第九十條明假獨假的這個舉發日期至測試檢定終結之日起算建議著學文字"},{"start":3003.857,"end":3031.218,"text":"另外有關邱委員若發 蔡委員齊昌 李委員崑澤等委員擬繼大眾檢疫法相關條文的修正提案以及盧委員憲一 台中民進黨黨團 李委員崑澤還有廖委員仙翔 張委員鴻祿 洪委員孟凱等委員以及黨團擬繼的鐵路法相關的條文修正提案對於落實國內的鐵道建立制度 提升運輸安全以服務品質強化"},{"start":3033.1,"end":3046.173,"text":"這個災害的防救以及突發事件應變能量維護公共運輸的秩序促進鐵道關關等委員及黨員關心鐵路相關的課題本部自表感謝除了鐵路法第26條第35條第65條建議不修正"},{"start":3049.717,"end":3073.92,"text":"其他的大眾捷運法以及鐵路法本部皆尊重委員會的 貴賓會的這個審查 綜合審查結果以上僅先在要說明本部提出報告的重點以及建立處理意見接下來我分別請我們的工業司司長 胡司長還有鐵道局 楊局長分別就道通交通管理處罰條例以及大眾捷運法"},{"start":3075,"end":3087.707,"text":"鐵路法向各位做詳細報告再次感謝各位的一個關心與指教 謝謝好 謝謝我們接下來兩位檢要說明就好 好不好謝謝"},{"start":3093.311,"end":3097.313,"text":"主席還有各位委員 大家好那以下僅就那個邱委員若驊還有徐委員富奎柯委員志恩 黃委員建豪等委員等你去那個道路交通管理處罰條例公司案修正提案提出本部的一個建議 進行指教"},{"start":3112.819,"end":3130.218,"text":"那針對邱委員若驊提案修正第31條之一提高機車行駛道路以手持方式使用行動電話等有礙駕駛安全之行為還有汽機車駕駛人行駛道路手持香煙吸食或點燃香煙等至影響他人行車安"},{"start":3130.538,"end":3133.599,"text":"那其中有關於提高機車駕駛人行駛於道路以手持方式使用行動電話等有礙駕駛安全行為之罰還那一百一十三年的違規案件月五萬一千多件已較一百一十二年八萬一千多件那已經有大幅的一個下降"},{"start":3151.084,"end":3173.992,"text":"所以建議維持現行罰環的額度持續加強宣導跟執法那另外有關提高汽車駕駛人手持香煙吸食點燃香煙制影響他人行車安全之罰環那一百一十三年的一萬五千多件也較一百一十二年的三萬三千多件也有大幅的一個下降所以我們是也建議維持現行的額度"},{"start":3174.432,"end":3192.56,"text":"那持續加強宣導跟執法那至於委員提案有提及那個由本部來會同衛福部訂定實施宣導辦法的部分因為涉及國人安全健康的議題那非屬那個道路交通管理處罰條例的範疇建議能以由相關機關來執行相關的宣導及執法"},{"start":3196.281,"end":3200.243,"text":"那有關於許委員富奎等提案79條增訂行人不必讓消防車救護車等車輛的一個處罰那這個部分大院在114年10月28日三讀通過的78條也有相同太陽的一個罰環的規定所以我們建議這一條無需再做一個修正"},{"start":3218.112,"end":3245.015,"text":"那柯委員致恩提案修正第八十六條增訂行經設有學校學醫院號誌的路段不減速慢行而致致人重傷或死亡依法附刑刑事責任得加重其刑責二分之一的部分那駕駛人行經學校醫院標誌應減速慢行是部裡面一直推動人本交通的一個方向所以我們也尊重委員會的一個審查結果"},{"start":3246.756,"end":3265.385,"text":"那針對黃委員建好提案修正第90條 明訂35條獨駕舉發日期測試檢定終結之日起算那這個部分部裡面其實在113年6月13日大概就已經有韓式尿液毒品檢驗報告結果通知日為準那"},{"start":3268.866,"end":3291.225,"text":"也在9月19號有邀集法務部內政部警政署等相關單位認為有修法的一個共識所以有利於法規更明確所以我們也尊重委員會審查的一個結果那以上就那個處罰條例的處理建議提供各委員參考那接下來有關於大眾捷運法鐵路法的處理意見請那個鐵道局楊局長進行說明"},{"start":3299.657,"end":3322.638,"text":"主席 各位委員 我想就大眾決定法跟鐵路法部分提出本部處理建議給各位參考那至於剛剛因為各位委員還有我們政府次長已經就相關的部分做過主要說明我請就我們建議要做著修或者是說建議不已處理的部分來做報告那其他包括原則支持跟尊重委員會審查的部分的條文我就不再多做說明"},{"start":3323.338,"end":3337.91,"text":"好 那有關蔡岐山委員所提的六條修正法案其中第39條的這個完善事故調查機制的部分本部原則支持但是配合條文的架構相關條文的內容建議修訂在第43條第4項"},{"start":3340.732,"end":3359.346,"text":"那同樣蔡委員所提案第43條有助於整個事故的調查資料的完整性但是由於大眾捷運的監理權責主責是在地方主管機關建議有關紀錄保存之項目期限管理事項修正為地方主管機關定職"},{"start":3361.997,"end":3385.104,"text":"另外有關鐵路法的部分如委員現依所提修正草案第26條第35條涉及到年滿55歲之原住民應享鐵路優待票價的部分查鐵路法並沒有優待票的相關規定 鐵路法相關的這些票價規定是依據老人福利法身心障礙者權益保障法提供優待及差額補貼"},{"start":3386.284,"end":3397.214,"text":"如果這兩個法源有做相關修正的時候我們再來做配合那方例所有的設施均能夠一體適用所以本條本部建議不需要做修正"},{"start":3398.902,"end":3423.372,"text":"另外在張委員紅路所提的第65條將車票加價出售換取不正利益圖利之罰完額度的部分委員提案修訂增訂本條第三項恰請警察機關協助調查或取締違規事實考量鐵路法第72條一定有本部的委託警察機關執行處罰之規定所以我們建議本條無需增訂"},{"start":3424.392,"end":3442.429,"text":"另外委員提案增訂第4項第5項檢舉人相關規定經檢視近5年來的相關檢舉案件因不知法律惡意檢舉或未有事證而檢舉經調查後未曾案例達71%以上所以我們建議本條也不需要做相關的增訂"},{"start":3443.47,"end":3464.428,"text":"最後是有關主席洪孟楷委員所提的第68條之事跟第72條其中第68條之事對於從業人員執勤的安全本部當然表示支持但是關於罰則的部分現在有兩個版本一個是這個台灣民眾黨團所提的他的處罰額度是在"},{"start":3467.51,"end":3482.991,"text":"3年以下然後30萬那本案所提的是1至5年處罰額度到1000萬那建議比照醫療法第106條也就是這個處罰額度較小的部分是處罰額度在30萬然後罰則是在3年以下"},{"start":3483.832,"end":3506.69,"text":"那另外第72條 類同剛剛的這個警察機關的執行查刑事訴訟法第88條 現行犯不論何人得進行逮捕制如果現說現行犯由警察機關排除或制止 控有抵觸法律之餘 考量現行犯之相關處置原則已規範於刑事訴訟法 建議本條無需增訂 那以上是本部就"},{"start":3508.311,"end":3514.014,"text":"鐵路法跟大眾捷運法 各位委員所提的相關提案提出的處理建議供各位委員會審查參考 報告謝謝"},{"start":3522.045,"end":3547.944,"text":"好那我們其餘機關所送的書面報告皆列入記錄刊登公報那我們就不再一一請機關來做說明好那接下來開始詢答先宣告以下事項一 詢答時間出席委員6加2分鐘列席委員4分鐘二 委員發言登記於10點30分截止三 各委員如有臨時提案請於10點前提出以便議事人員會診 四"},{"start":3550.119,"end":3567.898,"text":"暫定10點30分休息10分鐘好接下來我們登記第一號的洪孟楷召委執行"},{"start":3574.394,"end":3587.871,"text":"好 主席謝謝 我們麻煩請伍次長好 我們交通部伍次長那我們台鐵總經理然後以及我們公路局局長也請上來好不好好 那個公路局林局長來 台鐵公司馮總經理"},{"start":3589.97,"end":3611.088,"text":"委員好好 來 市長11月14號凌晨11點47分在瑞芳站台鐵這邊有發生旅客又再一次的一個暴力攻擊那並且他揚言說要殺了這個副站長是那到目前為止我們現在看到這20多歲的旅客我們先請教一下他有沒有特殊的一個個人因素"},{"start":3611.949,"end":3633.141,"text":"我們就了解沒有那他是怎麼樣無意識的他也不認識那個列車長不認識所以說那就更凸顯了我們過去一直在講就是說大眾運輸服務人員他其實面對的方方面面但更重要的是他隨時都有這種暴力攻擊那我們"},{"start":3634.437,"end":3662.063,"text":"接下來我先請教這個案件我們台鐵公司會全力協助來提告我們一定全力協助我們同仁來要保護同仁的權益嘛對不對因為他是在執勤的時候服務旅客他也沒有態度不佳他沒有態度不佳然後這個旅客就無差別的攻擊我們的從業人員造成他的嘴角有一些撕裂傷是 甚至我們看到是說到最後還要好幾名的"},{"start":3662.988,"end":3679.183,"text":"員工以及甚至派出所的同仁過來才能夠把他排除對不對好所以第一該社會秩序維護法該去做處理那以及我們這邊要做一個提告的部分本席都支持因為這個已經不是一個容許的範圍"},{"start":3679.884,"end":3700.891,"text":"那更重要的是有提到台鐵同仁已經在講啊就說我們的這個保全能力或者是說要執勤的一個部分那尤其像這一次的這個站是瑞芳站但他相對來講我們的鐵路警察是被移到芙蓉車站是不是也造成是說當天員警還是要從這個瑞芳的派出所來調員警過來協助"},{"start":3703.181,"end":3718.337,"text":"報告委員 事實上在瑞芳站現在目前在做整建那我們在瑞芳站裡面在當初也有找入境地方警察都有協調那為維護我們整個車站的一個旅運的安全所以我們在瑞芳站也有臨時的辦公室"},{"start":3719.738,"end":3737.564,"text":"那入境他也配合這樣的一個設置做這個人員的調派那我們跟地方警察也都有直接的一個連線作業所以當瑞芳在那個事件發生的時候我們第一時間是有通知這個地方的警察那隨後也通知了入境那所以在"},{"start":3738.564,"end":3766.923,"text":"警察單位的這個聯繫方圓我們都有建立一個網絡那當天當然因為這個地方警察有說他們有一些勤務執行所以趕到現場的時候比較晚一些那這個部分我們也會再來做檢討那怎麼樣讓這樣的一個防護措施更加的及時好 我要聽到的就是我們針對這個事件之後您剛剛有講到是說我們全台灣還是要去盤點一下各車站裡面怎麼樣跟我們當地的員警也做一個這個聯繫的一個網絡"},{"start":3768.724,"end":3797.904,"text":"那還有就是說針對不同的站別嘛因為可能還是有分這個主要的站然後以及就相關比較這個偏遠的站的一個部分然後你們去做一個加強的盤點好不好來可是我現在再拉回來喔其實這就面臨到大眾運輸的部分工作風險相對高那另外一個部分也是現在缺工的問題比較嚴重所以我想請教一下市長其實我們看到台鐵有缺工有說缺工高達2000人另外客運也有缺工的一個問題"},{"start":3798.985,"end":3815.525,"text":"那公路客運現在說因為整個營收的狀況也下降然後現在希望能夠爭取合理的虧損補貼成本所以說爭取公路局補貼公路客運駕駛底薪加薪五千塊公路局現在出省的作業進度如何"},{"start":3817.708,"end":3834.147,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下因為這個科研全聯會他在11號把他們這個11月11號對 本月就是依這個保規程序提送他們這個票價調整的這個計畫進來那我們初步這個看他們提進來的一個內容大概有兩個重點"},{"start":3835.288,"end":3853.076,"text":"第一個部分的話如果說按照現行這個汽車運輸管理規則法定的這些18項這個成本去做調整的話那這個在前兩天這個客運前年會秘書長大概也有說明如果說就18項成本這個部分來考量的話基本上"},{"start":3853.436,"end":3877.743,"text":"大概這個檢討的空間並不是很大那他們是這個大概參照地方政府這個市區課金的部分那這個部分基本上是不在這個法定這個18項成本裡面提出來說要針對駕駛員特別去加薪5000元這個部分那這個就是說法規的適用性等等部分的話這個部分我們還要再跟這個全聯會做一個這個討論"},{"start":3878.903,"end":3898.643,"text":"那所以這個出省之後可能有一些意見我們會再跟前任會討論那相關的內容可能要再做一個局長你這樣講了半天你是要say no嗎還是怎麼樣跟委員報告這個並不是要這個say no啦我們現在先確認一下因為公路客運票價原則上每兩年檢討一次對不對那上一次檢討是2023年的5月調整"},{"start":3901.525,"end":3930.264,"text":"2023年已經是兩年前了跟我們報告因為這裡面公路客運的部分分成一般公路客運跟國道客運那兩個調整的時間這一個不太一樣那是不是兩個都是在兩年前左右來做調整因為每兩年檢討一次嘛這個差不多一個是112年一個是113年是 所以說又更早那本席現在在講是說那現在因為客運工會現在已經有考量到旅客的負擔決定在這一次有關票價調整是不調整嘛"},{"start":3932.902,"end":3957.278,"text":"所以我們在講是說合理的成本來幫駕駛加薪是不是有討論的空間有 其實我跟委員報告一下在上一次不管是一般公路客運還有這個國道客運票價調整的時候基本上那個票價裡面就有預留這個幫駕駛人這個調薪的一個空間所以在上一次基本上整個調下來大概也平均大概這個加薪4000到5000"},{"start":3959.759,"end":3976.67,"text":"那之前大家討論的部分是把這些相關成本含括在這個18項成本裡面那他這次這個提出來的部分是單類項我想單類項在第一個這個調整一定要符合這個法規規定的這個部分至於說如何符合法規這個部分我們必須要在西部跟全聯會來做討論"},{"start":3977.771,"end":4000.125,"text":"那對於就是說這個透過合理符合規定的票價調整來這個讓這個營運者有這個健全的營運環境然後讓這個駕駛人有更好的一個待遇這個是我想公務局跟這個客運前人會這個是共同的目標我們共同目標都是最重要是不要讓駕駛他因為待遇"},{"start":4000.97,"end":4023.35,"text":"低而越來越缺工而造成路線越來越緊縮因為其實現在已經看到公路局今年的統計公路客運駕駛缺元600多位市區客運駕駛缺元1000多位全體合計有到2000多位駕駛所以說我們也常看到是說有一些路線好像就一直沒有辦法開出來即便是旅客有所需求"},{"start":4024.051,"end":4041.148,"text":"所以說最基本的我說最直接的其實還是反映在羊毛住在羊身上其實這跟台鐵也好或說我們公路客運也好這都一致的如果說你的薪資能夠合理的提升再多一點的話我相信缺工的問題當然還要透過其他安全的維護以及制度一個調整"},{"start":4042.169,"end":4059.612,"text":"來那再來我請教一下包括說我們現在因為過去有缺工的問題所以說我們也爭取本期這邊率先提出來這個國道客運有雙層巴士能夠上國道那目前也都說在今年年底可能會來正式上路但是有雙層巴士的一個補貼的一個部分目前的辦法"},{"start":4061.374,"end":4084.331,"text":"跟我有報告一下有關於這個雙層巴士這個法規的部分的話交通部已經這個預告了那大概這個臨底這個法規完成這個修正之後他的車身各部規格等的部分大概車廠就可以依照這個規定來做一個這個如果說業者有採購的話就可以來做打造那另外一個部分大概委員之前關切的部分說雙層巴士"},{"start":4084.711,"end":4109.191,"text":"是不是可以申請這一個補助的部分那這個部分的話我們也跟現在跟全聯會在做一個這個討論因為這個雙層巴士的這個單價的話大概以目前來看的話大概都達到這個1300萬 1400萬比較高比單層巴士高嗎那所以說我們之前講說如果雙層巴士的運量可以有單層巴士的兩倍的話那是不是能夠有相關的一個補貼補助的比例"},{"start":4110.271,"end":4138.61,"text":"目前這個看起來是沒辦法擋到兩倍大概就是1.5因為一般這個單體這個單層大客車的部分大概是40人座那雙層的部分的話大概是50到50幾到這一個60那這個部分我會跟委員報告就是說在公務局的一個立場如果供應經費足夠的話一定是全力來這一個支持那因為這個確實明年這個供應因為明年就要上路了嘛那辦法什麼時候會出來"},{"start":4140.431,"end":4164.361,"text":"這個東西原則上我們在討論115年這個提案原則補助的時候我們會納進來這個考慮那現行我們已經在這個準備了因為這個提案原則要搭配明年的這個預算在這個明年1月之前我們會把這個提案原則整體做一個這個修訂所以明年1月包括說開放雙層巴士上國道以及相關補助辦法都會出來"},{"start":4166.461,"end":4185.75,"text":"對包括其他這個供應地方政府申請的項目跟這個補助的原則都會出來好這樣子加速讓業者可以申請因為我們不是只是要法條通過重點是要真的能夠雙層巴士能夠上國道能夠讓使用者能夠使用嘛這才最重要嘛我們要解決問題不是只是做紙上工夫嘛"},{"start":4186.67,"end":4213.785,"text":"這個部分我跟委員補充報告一下原則上就是相關這個補助這個部分一定可以符合時程因為這個年底這個預告然後法規修正完之後他車體打造的部分大概也需要這個半年以上的時間了解來 次長最後啊不好意思 都讓你站這樣這麼久沒給你回答一下有一個事情我要幫我們全台民眾來反映啦這可能要回去請您再讀出因為可能現在沒有辦法一時三刻解決那我們看一下"},{"start":4214.525,"end":4236.642,"text":"就說相信很多民代現在也都接到這樣的一個陳情就是因為現在機車考照報名根本報名不了因為為什麼全部都額滿甚至有我們的民眾直接就是傳訊來他說什麼他說比假日的高鐵票還要難搶即便是早上他已經起得很早然後設定鬧鐘然後來去做報名"},{"start":4237.242,"end":4264.392,"text":"那當然這跟什麼有關係可能跟我們機車駕照的這個嚴格有關係所以說大家可能要搶在最近趕快要去做考照但不管怎麼樣我覺得是說每一個考照過程我們都要有合理的一個方式讓大家能夠趕快符合他的資格跟標準的時候就可以考照那這個是現在我們今天早上再請同仁再去查的其實你看各縣市都已經變成是額滿的一個狀況"},{"start":4267.682,"end":4287.429,"text":"我們查了一下可能真的只有什麼離島的部分或者是說相關離島金門才有這個還有名額所以這個部分是不是次長可以帶回去來了解一下是說到底現在目前考照如果說都已經額滿那我們是不是還是適時的如果說有能力的部分能夠來加開這個場次"},{"start":4289.23,"end":4310.706,"text":"是我想跟委員報告我了解的是一般它有所謂的季節性比如說假期比如說畢業期間那個寒假暑假對沒有錯對理解那這個部分我們再了解一下看到底是怎麼回事那我們針對那個問題我想譬如說本席拿到人生第一部機車"},{"start":4312.407,"end":4340.572,"text":"考第一個這個機車駕照就是在那個時候剛考上大學的暑假七八月的時間我相信很多人都是這樣就是說他要去念大學的時候他又滿了18歲所以說他要去考駕照然後他就買了人生第一部機車又或者是說他可能年齡到了大一寒假的時候他利用寒假的時間來考照那如果說我們自己也都知道過去到現在也都有這個季節性的話那平常的時候人力的調配也就變相對重要嘛"},{"start":4341.34,"end":4368.566,"text":"所以既然我們也都理解跟清楚這是長期的問題那本席又剛剛再加上就是說因為是不是我們未來有可能有一些民眾會覺得是說未來機車考照會變難也因此大家就搶在這個落日前趕快拿到機車駕照那也因此造成說現在這個狀況但不管怎麼樣不管怎麼樣我現在想是說額滿是事實那我也把它秀出來那我希望說次長回去是不是能夠來了解盤點一下如果說有能力能夠多開"},{"start":4370.458,"end":4379.02,"text":"班次多開場次可以再加開好不好這沒有問題好謝謝麻煩好謝謝我們洪孟楷召委的質詢好謝謝先下來再請第二位我們林國成委員質詢"},{"start":4408.663,"end":4434.806,"text":"好 謝謝主席 請我們交通部吳政次還有我們台鐵公司的馮總經理高鐵公司的楊副總經理委員好好 次長因為你也代理過"},{"start":4436.209,"end":4450.909,"text":"台鐵公司的董事長是說實在的台鐵公司我們也了解台鐵公司轉為公司化以後當然有很多法令是比較鬆懈的"},{"start":4451.65,"end":4464.715,"text":"但是可以有比較大的空間公司去做營運的改變但是在整個公司營運改變的過程當中對於員工"},{"start":4466.696,"end":4492.944,"text":"以及經營的這些有關老百姓跟客戶的等等的安全還有我們員工的職工的安全這是刻不容緩沒有什麼放鬆的餘地我相信那個次長你也同意有這種本席這種看法嗎是 同意所以我們今天就修法其實我剛剛在修法說明的時候"},{"start":4493.988,"end":4518.643,"text":"本黨非常重視也就是兩個部分一個就是經營裡面對於員工職安的問題這是我一向本黨跟本人都非常非常重視的那我在想我們離次以來現在我要跟次長讓次長了解11月15號"},{"start":4520.842,"end":4543.39,"text":"奇怪了又在瑞豐裡面的這些藝名的男性招我們列車長他的勸阻結果情緒失控然後甚至於在那邊推擠甚至於對於我們的這些戰務員有所威脅"},{"start":4545.871,"end":4563.57,"text":"市長 你認為這個長期現在這樣下去你可想而知高鐵的員工跟台鐵的員工是完全不同工作環境市長 你有什麼感覺"},{"start":4564.905,"end":4591.887,"text":"我想跟委員報告 剛提到對員工的從人員面對第一線他面臨的風險 其實台鐵公司還有交通部都非常重視在今年六月我們曾經跟警政署我們有討論過 剛講對整個員工的從人員面臨到第一線 面臨到威脅的時候我們做了一些措施 包括我們對"},{"start":4593.228,"end":4620.319,"text":"希望能夠這個警察的入境的他的巡邏的頻率加高還有包括我們自己的本身的保全還有我們人員跟他做一些聯訪那剛才有提到我們有些車站有所謂的入境所但是有些不是每一個車站都有但是這個時候我們就跟所謂的地方警察我們有一個聯絡的一個方式到時候做一個聯訪的概念來做這我想都是我們目前都在做的好那個來高鐵"},{"start":4621.639,"end":4627.227,"text":"我們楊副總經理來 你們遇到這些事情你們如何去應對 如何去做"},{"start":4632.35,"end":4659.357,"text":"跟國務委員報告一下我們那個列車上都有配置這個菁英保全那他在這個一趟列車上大概至少都會有六次的整個巡視車廂那我們的列車長還有我們車上的一些慶典人員也是會依照不同的情務他會巡視車廂所以整個列車上這個對於車上安全的部分是可以確保那同時我們搭配這個鐵井他隨時都會有鐵井上去護車所以我們對於這個旅客的部分"},{"start":4659.397,"end":4684.058,"text":"因為台鐵當然跟高鐵會完全不一樣啦高鐵當然是它是重點站較為集中台鐵是不一樣所以我為什麼要台說我們轉為公式化的時候這可能吳政志你要去都市董事會啦不要每一次啊只想要賣我們台鐵的資產啦"},{"start":4686.316,"end":4706.964,"text":"這些員工的經營最基本動作要馬上做 刻不容緩然後要很認真的去做改變因為我們也知道台鐵裡面小站你說要請一個保全那事實上他是負起這些運輸期間的責任"},{"start":4707.264,"end":4717.279,"text":"我們也知道可是你要未以籌謀啊你要把你的員工不管是一個或五個你都要給他保全好啊所以為什麼本黨跟本席會去修這個法要讓我們"},{"start":4722.946,"end":4749.708,"text":"鐵道單位要有負起這些責任那我看原則信交通部也同意你們也同意這本來就是這樣那為什麼要有華澤你要有華澤才有責任所以這些我想台鐵我還是要鼓勵你們你們的缺點我都了解你們的困難我也了解可是不能把員工當成試驗品這是非常重要"},{"start":4750.208,"end":4771.054,"text":"因為還有人敢說要殺你啦要推你啦這個就是什麼公權力受到這些威脅所以我們吳政事真的也要去督促我們台鐵要改變要從保護員工開始做很強硬的去做你管他什麼"},{"start":4772.174,"end":4787.51,"text":"顧客為先我相信99%的顧客都很有素質很有水準但是不要忘了少數0.1%這些人就是要用強烈的態度讓他們知道我台鐵"},{"start":4788.888,"end":4812.308,"text":"跟高鐵是完全一樣的我是很強硬的所以這一點我要拜託政事可能在這個部分你可能要稍微督促一下為了所有的員工是 八卦委員我是不是可以回應一下稍微回應一下剛剛委員所提到這部分我想不管交通部還是台鐵公司對員工的保護都是第一優先這我要特別強調"},{"start":4813.249,"end":4826.021,"text":"所以剛講之前我在代理總市長的時候那時候我們就講過如果像這樣的發生這樣暴力的情況公司絕對負責這所謂的司法的一些費用全部由公司來全額來負擔"},{"start":4827.801,"end":4844.772,"text":"那剛剛講的後來我們也跟那個內政部還有那個馬次長我也跟他一起開過會討論一下怎麼去做這樣的一個短期的一個應變 包括我們的警力這些問題我想這部分我們後續會來持續再做非常謝謝委員這樣的提醒 謝謝"},{"start":4846.093,"end":4867.529,"text":"那個政事我要拜託還有馮總經理那個楊副總經理你們如果我們修法修法通過以後因為他的刑者是提高的對於攻擊者是把刑法提高我要拜託你們什麼文憲都在做這個部分"},{"start":4868.61,"end":4883.093,"text":"要大力的宣傳告訴人家這是刑責三年以下七年以下這個刑責你要去貫徹讓老百姓知道我去攻擊賬戶人員我要換這些很重大的行為"},{"start":4884.074,"end":4912.191,"text":"結果我們現在不是啊被攻擊的員工到最後不了了之就是鐵路警察依華送辦最後呢最後就是交保回來啊所以他一次兩次有優看優啦所以這些東西我要拜託洪總經理你一定要去做大力宣傳這樣多少可以嚇阻來最後一個我還要特別我們七堵基站的部分"},{"start":4913.92,"end":4922.311,"text":"偷偷的被人家進去塗鴉這代表什麼就代表我們的警衛管理是不足的所以馮總經理這個該怎麼辦"},{"start":4925.543,"end":4953.001,"text":"報告委員這個塗鴉的時間很長耶對主要他的停車的列車停放的位置是在我們洗車場旁邊旁邊的空間比較範圍比較寬廣所以這個就目前陸警跟刑事大隊都已經在做調查他是從外面的民房這邊侵入所以我們現在目前針對這個案我們在這個區域我們會加裝這個高危感的監視器能夠360度都來做一個監視要盡快啦"},{"start":4955.763,"end":4978.037,"text":"所以我剛才還在稱讚我們改為國營改為公司化之後確確實實法令會比較鬆綁嘛該防備的要防備你看看你們自己的車被人家塗鴉以後你們隔天隔了兩天才知道這代表什麼警戒性不夠嘛裡面都沒有人在看我們的機場嘛有嘛那為什麼"},{"start":4978.917,"end":5001.059,"text":"不知不覺的情況之下塗鴉不是一分鐘五分鐘那沒有三個小時五個小時既然沒有人發現這個叫做警戒的遺漏也就是警戒不足的地方所以總經理我想公司要改我想還是要好好的"},{"start":5001.88,"end":5019.378,"text":"改那個人的制度一定要馬上改所以我也希望這個要盡快最後一個我想請教我們那個基隆我上次揭發的這些問題解決了沒有也就是我們那個觀光"},{"start":5021.058,"end":5043.294,"text":"列車的這些那個海風號的問題解決了沒有有 現在委員交代的事項我們都有在處理要盡速像你們這樣隔天就馬上見報說我們馬上把它毀約馬上處理這個才是真正要改革的一個台鐵才有辦法台鐵才有明天好不好好 謝謝市長好 謝謝委員好 謝謝"},{"start":5051.024,"end":5079.646,"text":"接下來再請蔡啟昌委員自選謝謝主席 請武次長武次長請委員好 次長好我想今天這個幾個法案的修法本席針對那個大眾捷運法有提了幾條的修正"},{"start":5080.595,"end":5106.488,"text":"那本席的重點其實很簡單第一個我想透過台中終結的這個事故其實我們可以發現這個捷運的相關譬如說在這個案例裡面像保全他就沒有及時的去做處置所以導致這些後續這些不幸的事情的發生所以本席希望說在未來的"},{"start":5108.769,"end":5135.606,"text":"這個防災的演練或者內部人員的教育訓練裡面像保全或者相關的這些人等都應該要納入整個捷運的管理的架構跟概念是 應該的市長你應該也同意對 同意 完全同意對 我想這個是安全的問題啦那另外就是有關過去捷運周邊的這個施工看起來我們那個台中也是一樣嘛那個施工那個"},{"start":5140.054,"end":5154.179,"text":"所以它導致對撞擊的那個所以道路上面的就軌道上面的偵測系統包括施工單位未來要進行施工的時候它對於周邊的防護"},{"start":5155.259,"end":5178.02,"text":"我覺得應該要有一個法律性的這個規範這個次長你部裡面同意嗎同意跟委員報告這部分其實對我們鐵路沿線包括捷運沿線我們都有所謂一些他的施工上的一些申請我們要求這個地方政府譬如說捷運是以地方政府你的範圍一定範圍以內他必須施工必須要經過他的監管單位才可以"},{"start":5178.34,"end":5200.645,"text":"所以剛剛講如果這個部分有確實做到他就可以掌握像那天那樣所看到的卡掉在那邊試做讓他施工計畫讓他瞭解這樣的話就我想可以把他風險降到最低就是說案例是不幸就發生了這個事故大家很難過也感到很惋惜對這些因而傷亡的我們也感到這個"},{"start":5202.979,"end":5229.434,"text":"這個很不捨啦但重點是事情發生了我想我們應該做的事情是透過立法院的修法讓未來這種不幸的事情不要再發生所以無論是台中捷運或者目前這個台北既有的高雄或者目前正在其他縣市正在興建的我想法律的完備其實就是一種管理而有管理才會降低這些不幸跟意外的產生"},{"start":5230.114,"end":5252.254,"text":"我想每一個市民每一條寶貴的生命財產我想大家都應該很重視所以我想利用這一次的修法本席以台中捷運為案例針對這幾個方向提出一些在條文上面的一些修正希望修法如果能夠三讀通過讓這些遺憾不再發生所以我看"},{"start":5253.195,"end":5269.115,"text":"初步 部裡面給本席的回應應該是本席提的四條修正的條文應該部裡面都支持對 都支持對 那另外部裡面也自己提了一條就有關監理是不是有關地方政府對捷運局的"},{"start":5270.16,"end":5288.841,"text":"對那地方的監理單位以地方來講應該是他交通局對應該是交通局對所以你們認為在法制面上也應該給交通局更大的這個力量跟要求就對了是好這個我想本席也會支持啦是所以我們一起努力希望"},{"start":5289.782,"end":5306.047,"text":"這些遺憾的事情不要再次來發生那另外第二個問題這個國道客運我看大家最近包括很多消費者也透過本席的社群平台來提出就是對於這國道客運無預警的停止"},{"start":5306.874,"end":5320.992,"text":"那我想次長你也知道無預警的停駛對很多人來講其實傷害很大譬如說這個你本來預計好要坐哪一班車子結果那一班車子沒有開 臨時告訴你他不開了"},{"start":5322.618,"end":5341.52,"text":"那導致於他後面的這些工作都會說要耽擱上學啦上班啦很多商業洽談都會產生影響市長那今年啊今年開始我們知道從109年就疫情前有6000多萬的一年有6000多萬的這個人次"},{"start":5342.361,"end":5363.784,"text":"那疫情之間降到4300萬那112年開始就是2023年開始又回到5000萬那2024年是5400萬那今年呢今年到現在11月底了市長這個數字還會在客運這個載浴客的這個人次會再增加嗎"},{"start":5365.737,"end":5383.104,"text":"跟委員報告那個詳細的數字我所目前沒有提供給這個委員但是如果說就今年營運的狀況的話應該是會比去年還要再好一點對好所以那再好一點其實距離疫情前的6400萬當然6400萬之前更高啦那"},{"start":5387.628,"end":5397.061,"text":"到底是客運業者幾乎已經存活不了了所以他們要無預警的停班還是另有其他原因會產生這種無預警停班的情形"},{"start":5399.202,"end":5418.784,"text":"跟我們報告一下第一個部分如果是國道客運的部分的話我們現在只講國道客運對 大家正在公務局的立場絕對不允許所謂不預警的一個停班因為它相關排定的班表都要上傳我們的這個動態這個中心的部分那今年幾次無預警停班"},{"start":5419.965,"end":5436.463,"text":"跟委員報告一下國道客運應該是沒有啦但是之前比較常發現的部分大概就是在這個苗栗那苗栗那個部分是屬於一般公路客運這個路線的部分對 市長那個我的臉書的投書是"},{"start":5440.122,"end":5453.034,"text":"客運1820路線18點10分與18點20A路線18點50的班次結果櫃檯人員說司機今天沒有領到薪水所以車輛都沒有來跟委員報告一下如果"},{"start":5458.191,"end":5477.304,"text":"跟委員報告一下國光這個薪資的部分我跟委員報告如果是最近一次的話就是在11月20號發辦信11月20號沒有錯11月20但是11月20號就我們所掌控的部分的話基本上大概這個"},{"start":5479.205,"end":5496.274,"text":"司機都有這個內部做好這個溝通然後呢那我們也當時就是說確認隔天這個半星我的意思說這些這個消費者投訴的這些班次當天是不是沒有開我先確定這個這個消息是否屬實"},{"start":5501.023,"end":5510.807,"text":"這個我們所了解的部分是沒有但是跟文報告下我回去立刻跟國光我覺得你應該立刻查一下因為這麼明確指出哪一班是沒有開"},{"start":5513.359,"end":5534.227,"text":"而且把這個資料給本席嘛所以你應該去確確了解因為你們現在如果到今天為止還沒有辦法掌握他到底有沒有開這個事情是不應該的如果說這個這一班這個沒開的話我們這個產品立刻處罰我其實不是要處罰他啦我是要你們徹底性的解決說國道客運有多少家這幾家裡面"},{"start":5536.007,"end":5552.556,"text":"是不是因為旅客人次減少了他們營運有什麼困難或者是不是困難是他們就是擺爛到底是什麼原因我要做的是保障消費者權益我的目的在於解決這個不能讓消費者再次遇到這種"},{"start":5553.817,"end":5578.382,"text":"完全無預警也沒有任何告知只有告訴人家說車輛沒有來是因為司機今天領不到薪水或者司機最近都領不到薪水這個就不應該嘛是這個跟委員報告我想這部分我們會請公務局的同仁來對這個其他路線他的了解然後應該來持續監控他的這個班次的一些問題市長簡單結論時間的關係第一個"},{"start":5582.748,"end":5598.933,"text":"去了解清楚到底一整年下來國道客運每一家營運的狀況如何到底出現這種所謂無預警停班的次數的頻繁度到底有多高那這一個事情11月20的這一個停班這個民眾投書的這個停班"},{"start":5599.953,"end":5622.443,"text":"是不是是否存在那存在你們要做如何改善去處置不能讓這種事情再持續的發生那如果真的有困難政府到底要用什麼樣的公權不是只有罰款的問題嘛到底它結構性的是產生什麼問題譬如說薪水沒有發這件事情我看就三度傳出說他的欠薪嘛你們也去罰款過九萬嘛"},{"start":5624.084,"end":5643.139,"text":"這問題是罰款欠薪罰款九萬他還是繼續這樣到底那消費者我怎麼辦我到底是要等著隨機看看哪一班會停哪一班不會停哪一班有車坐哪一班沒車坐我的意思是說政府面對這個監理應該是不是處罰他的問題是到底我怎麼讓"},{"start":5644.895,"end":5673.791,"text":"國道客運可以不再不會這樣子以前沒有這樣子嘛所以表示是產業結構的問題還是客運公司自己經營的問題到底是什麼消費者希望得到的答案這樣簡單講我不希望再看到說有這種無預警停班的情形好不好市長是好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝接下來再請李崑哲委員質詢"},{"start":5681.866,"end":5691.809,"text":"謝謝召委 請一下次長還有台北公司馮董經理運安會林執行長以及楊振軍楊局長委員好"},{"start":5696.387,"end":5712.14,"text":"次長我首先針對今天台鐵發生兩次的這樣的意外的事件那我必須要提醒次長台鐵每天搭乘的人次是高達66萬人次左右那"},{"start":5713.137,"end":5741.875,"text":"旅客的運輸的一個安全跟服務的效率當然是我們台鐵很重要的一個基本的責任那當然早上是發生基隆的這個路段因為有駕駛男性駕駛攜帶毒品拒檢逃逸那在平交道上發生這樣的一個爆胎的事故幸好沒有造成重大的一個傷亡但是也造成旅客"},{"start":5742.375,"end":5760.588,"text":"的一個誤點那在過去我就一再提醒交通部及台鐵公司必須要建立相關的這個接駁的快速反應的一個接駁系統讓民眾在上班的時間不會造成太久的一個誤點另外一個是在台中的麗嶺車站"},{"start":5762.129,"end":5784.118,"text":"可能是因為行動電源發生冒煙的一個事件這個事件不會是單一事件以後也會常常的一個發生那相關的這些旅客的疏散以及相關的滅火措施台鐵公司必須要有更進一步的研議跟作為我先請一下馮總經理來說明一下"},{"start":5786.577,"end":5806.608,"text":"報告委員早上有發生了兩起的事件首先第一起是基隆是深夜的2點26分發生的小汽車從這個基隆站的前面的平交道闖入直接往我們的車子衝進去就如同委員剛剛講的他是為了逃避這個檢查"},{"start":5807.884,"end":5824.174,"text":"那整個沿線行駛了大概300公尺造成我們的路線還有我們耗資系統都嚴重的受損所以我們同仁從2點半開始把車子調走以後開始搶修那這個事件到9點09分我們全部把它修復完成"},{"start":5824.614,"end":5848.988,"text":"那中間的過程報告委員就是我們雖然沒有公路接駁可是我們有維持我們的西正線還有單線來做列車的運行所以部分的列車我們也是用截短的方式就是避免影響到旅客的這個運輸那這是第一件第二件是麗林站就剛才發生行動電源在這個旅客的背包裡面自燃"},{"start":5849.548,"end":5869.836,"text":"那我們這裡也跟委員報上一次在這高鐵有發生這樣的一個情形的時候我們已經透過我們所有的一個網路還有臉書跟我們的公告系統都有公告主要公告事項就是請旅客要檢查他的行動電源是不是符合經濟部頒布認證的BSMI的這樣的一個認證的標章"},{"start":5871.917,"end":5889.063,"text":"第二個在這個充電的過程中不要邊充電邊使用那行動電源要放在可以看到的地方這是提醒的部分我請教的是有關有相關旅客的疏散或者是相關的這些滅火的措施我們必須要有更進一步的這個作為好"},{"start":5891.103,"end":5919.109,"text":"報委員我們現在在因為台鐵我們都有這個每年都會有這將近6到8次的這個演練我們現在目前也把這個行動電源燃燒納入我們的演練措施那交通部上次前次也有開會請我們來檢討是不是還有一些這個防火帶相關的一些措施可以來緊急來做這個這讓行動電源燃燒以後做緊急的處置這個我們也都會納入"},{"start":5919.209,"end":5943.918,"text":"我要請教運安會林培達執行長我們相關運安會針對這種行動電源不管是航空或者是軌道相關的這些運輸系統所造成的這種可能的危害我們有沒有參佐世界各國先進國家在處理的這一種相關的措施有沒有來進行研議或者是對交通部有什麼建議來說明一下"},{"start":5946.281,"end":5967.021,"text":"這邊跟委員報告雲南匯我們目前已經彙整了這個航空鐵道的旅客攜帶跟使用行動電源的安全管理還有減害措施那這些相關的這些安全的一個資訊我們目前是在6月11號已經發函交通部民航局鐵道局和相關的業者來參考已訂定使用的一個規定"},{"start":5969.228,"end":5988.115,"text":"目前國際上面包括航空跟鐵道普遍的做法就像剛剛馮總經理剛剛所提到的一個部分我們應該是宣導使用檢驗合格的行動電源這個行動電源應該放在目視可及的地方另外要強化組員應變的訓練另外就是使用有效的滅火設備"},{"start":5994.958,"end":6009.549,"text":"那未來本會會持續收集國際的案例跟做法那提供相關的一個單位參考 以上那個馮總經理剛才林執行長也有具體的一個建議除了宣導之外我們相關的組員的訓練以及"},{"start":6011.83,"end":6035.458,"text":"更精進的這些滅火的措施等等台鐵必須要進一步來做嚴厲的規劃好 包委員我們會來盡力在我們的相關SOP來做檢討好 我們現在來討論一下鐵路法在相關的執行上它有實際的一些困難我們看到第一線的台鐵人員在面對旅客暴力行為時候的一些相關的困境"},{"start":6036.218,"end":6047.605,"text":"那其實他們沒有辦法有公權力去執行相關的這些作為所以即使台鐵當下說要解除運送的契約"},{"start":6049.147,"end":6076.226,"text":"也面臨旅客耍賴他就不願意下車也不願意離場的狀況之下那台鐵只能呼叫鐵路警察來支援但是我看台鐵的機程人員也跟我反映他們指出實務上這些鐵路警察抵達現場的時候往往也只能以協助或是建議的方式來處理現場的狀況其實長期讓台鐵的員工站在第一線來"},{"start":6078.267,"end":6100.306,"text":"處理這些相關的危機 我認為會累積他們心裡的問題就是說因為授權不足 角色模糊這些問題 董事長 那總經理說明一下報告委員我們現在實際執行確實有遭遇到跟陸警討論有一些是法源上面沒有很強制性的一個規定所以"},{"start":6101.367,"end":6129.238,"text":"現在先前我們有跟陸警來提到談是不是透過社會維護法這樣的一個法令來社會法的方式來做執行那陸警也有建議說在鐵路法修法是不是可以更明確的把一些事項訂定所以委員這次訂定我們是這個非常的支持希望以後有這樣法源陸警跟台鐵就有法源依據來除了法源依據的處理之外我們必須更來"},{"start":6130.831,"end":6140.343,"text":"更進一步的來觀察我們相關的這些應變的作為就是說我們的鐵路警察他的能量不足"},{"start":6141.175,"end":6162.099,"text":"那台鐵是否應該去評估要增加保全的一個可能性那我說過除了法律授權不足之外人力上也必須要重新的盤點鐵路警察我看內政部的這一些警政署的資料109年全國鐵路警察總員額為745人那114年變成626人"},{"start":6169.48,"end":6190.238,"text":"降幅約16%旅客越來越多 潛入警察卻越來越少那保全能力台鐵公司目前有沒有置聘的相關保全能力報告委員我們現在有分平交道跟車站平交道我們就有保全在看護那我們的車站現在目前幾個主要的大站台北高雄也都有保全"},{"start":6190.618,"end":6207.151,"text":"那委員也多次有提到說要加強保全的這個防護措施我們現在目前已經開始在做針對特等站一等站來做一個全面的盤點我們預計一個月內把它盤點完了以後我們來配合我們相關的一些需要來做檢討"},{"start":6208.072,"end":6234.605,"text":"那我認為維持這種車站跟列車的安全與秩序他這種責任是非常的重要那不能都落在台鐵公司第一線的基層人員那包含站務人員跟列車長等等所以我說這些他們職務的主要任務是在於運輸服務他不應該被預設為是面對暴力乘客的第一道防線"},{"start":6235.706,"end":6260.325,"text":"所以說我們必須要前面的去盤點各區域各車站相關的治安風險跟旅運的一個密度來建立常態化的一個保全的配置的一個措施那包含大站與轉乘節點的外包保全的巡邏還有中小站分時段的支援等等來讓總經理最後來做補充說明"},{"start":6261.804,"end":6287.405,"text":"感謝委員的提醒因為我們現在目前各站就如同委員說的我們在務人員主要還是在我們的旅運服務的這個提供跟維持那提供好的服務品質那有關於保全的部分我們現在也全面來盤點這個人力的問題那我們會就各車站他需要的一些人力或是有短缺的問題然後透過這個保全的一個人力的盤點那我們依照"},{"start":6288.106,"end":6308.125,"text":"不同的站別跟他的轉運的這個需求還有他安全防護的需要我們來做一個檢討一個月內把它做檢討完成好 儘速的完成必須維護車站以及列車的秩序跟安全這是最重要的基本責任以上好 謝謝委員好 謝謝"},{"start":6311.471,"end":6336.614,"text":"好接下來再請魯明哲委員質詢那本席宣告一下到何新淳委員質詢完畢之後我們休息10分鐘好謝謝主席有請我們交通部武次長武次長請我們公路局林局長"},{"start":6338.277,"end":6341.98,"text":"好一起來 那個台鐵是今天是馮總來嘛吳妍好好"},{"start":6349.594,"end":6370.261,"text":"接下來我們今天問題直接進入主題剛剛很多委員也提到了這個整個的客運駕駛不管是公路客運市區客運等一個這種大巴的一個駕駛事實上已經缺了很多年了我想我跟這個主席從上一屆交通委會講到這一屆確實一路來這不是一日之寒也不是一年之寒這已經幾"},{"start":6372.422,"end":6385.88,"text":"幾年來我們也透過了很多的一個專報包括你們的業務報告聽到你們這個包括這個前任的局長包括歷任的部長在報告解決這個方案怎麼樣讓這樣的一個缺額的一個部分能夠緩解"},{"start":6388.042,"end":6404.073,"text":"所以我們看到種種的一個做法包括當時林佳龍還是交通部長的時候他也有一些做法我們前任的一個局長他也有一些說法包括我們現在我們的部長特別我們在去年10月24號交通委員會"},{"start":6405.214,"end":6434.136,"text":"針對於大型客戶運駕駛短缺的一個專題報告他也特別說了他也認為是很大的問題留不住現在的駕駛員其中第一個要放寬大客車職業駕駛持照年齡向上改善薪資結構那接下來就是要開放外籍工或者僑外生當時提的方向請問次長這個狀況如何持照年齡往上延伸"},{"start":6434.716,"end":6451.685,"text":"是 我可不可以請那個局長 八位有關於這個就第一項的部分這個延嶺的部分65延嶺到68那個已經實施了那這個改善新知這個結構的部分的話那分成兩個層面如果是屬於公路客運的部分"},{"start":6452.105,"end":6472.3,"text":"那在一百一十二年跟一百一十三年分別針對一般公務客運跟國道客運也調整票價那裡面有內涵希望就是幫司機這一個加薪那這一塊的部分就我們所瞭解大概票價調整完之後大概也平均加薪大概四五千塊那市區客運的一個部分的話那大概就是由各地方政府他們來做一個處理"},{"start":6473.121,"end":6488.053,"text":"那第三塊有關於這個開放這個外籍移工或這個僑害生補充駕駛能力的這個部分那這個目前在進行當中那因為之前我們配合勞動部的一個政策有研議一些相關的一個這個條件那後來"},{"start":6488.633,"end":6502.146,"text":"就是大概在這個語言跟保險的部分那勞動部有請我們在做檢討那目前針對這個語言的部分我們有在做檢討那已經這個報部那這個讓部幫我們再轉送這個勞動部這邊來做處理"},{"start":6504.708,"end":6530.61,"text":"好其實很多的一個客運業者現在都是危機不光是缺駕駛其實都是風雨飄搖你看我們自己的國光客運的一個狀況所以我覺得我們真的要非常正視這個問題但是我們經過這麼多年努力我們看到了從過去三年112年到今年的114年11月目前缺工的情形坦白講並沒有"},{"start":6533.1,"end":6550.09,"text":"很大的一個改善讓我們感覺是越糟越缺其實事實上是退休的人人數也很多所以你要補你補上來的人大概又有一年大概有30%流失率大概只留下來七成那這會造成幾個問題第一個問題是"},{"start":6553.712,"end":6570.138,"text":"你這個長期不解決第一個路線就切斷了對不對現在很多路線就沒有了大家完完全全這個路線都沒人在跑了這第一個問題那第二個問題呢是現在因為人少了這是駕駛品質的問題"},{"start":6571.818,"end":6598.959,"text":"我們本來人多很多人都要進這個行業我當然我可以擇優太劣不OK 稍微不OK如果人再多一點只要不太好的我都可以可是你到現在都是缺額的狀態所以我們不管在全國各地 桃園也有可能有駕駛可能反應造成很多一個民怨可是我們的業者其實也滿頭痛的當你人數不補足"},{"start":6600.18,"end":6622.175,"text":"他不但沒有辦法擇優太烈他就是差不多的都要留起來所以這整個的一個問題是越來越大然後國道客運非常嚴重各位知道你們都已經聽過了很多人在抱怨國道客運他在起站之後上國道 高速公路那通常後面起站"},{"start":6624.235,"end":6647.885,"text":"後面幾站的心情 各位你知道嗎 一日之計在於塵對他們來講一日之氣在於塵 一早上就要生氣手上拿個T-pass每一個經過的車兩三台都是pass掉為什麼 滿了嘛 座位都坐滿了嘛這種情況如果不解決 這種的問題會非常非常多所以剛剛有特別說我們"},{"start":6649.365,"end":6673.278,"text":"張市長也有提出來你們之前也有規劃就在上國道的部分能夠每輛車如果用雙層巴士能夠增加23%你們評估的這個客運量那這個部分我是建議你剛剛已經說就不講預計明年初完成的修法那補助的補助你們我們問了嘛補助現在計畫都什麼時候到位"},{"start":6674.378,"end":6703.017,"text":"剛剛就是說趙委大概也有問這個問題那大概我跟他報告因為這個大概就是這個連體完成修法那明年這個大概有業者會申請那我們會並在明年這個公共運輸計畫這個提案原則裡面我們來做一個檢討修正那原則上這些相關提案的這個原則跟這個經費補助的額度的部分我們會在明年1月底之前完成這個修訂然後送給地方"},{"start":6704.438,"end":6727.858,"text":"那你要特別注意因為我們問你的時候像這邊第二個沒有的因為你還沒去盤點價格你要怎麼樣還是你們的人員亂講就是雙城巴士大概跟現在的公車大概價差多少你們知道嗎跟我們報告一下如果以最近最近大概就是基隆市有這個雙城巴士這樣子的一個採購案的話大概報出的價格大概是1300萬到1400萬的一個部分"},{"start":6732.048,"end":6756.256,"text":"所以這中間有架差的部分我覺得我們要做一個示範區尤其在國道的部分因為在市區公車有時候有限高的問題它根本很多路線也沒辦法去做但在國道客運的部分我是覺得希望你們在完成修法之後能夠積極好不好能夠處理希望能夠在明年度就能夠下半年的時候就能夠看到好的一個結果"},{"start":6757.016,"end":6784.582,"text":"再來橋外生開放的時候我們真的希望你們可以來努力一下當然因為我們的整個資源因為我們現在聽到了很多的客運業者缺工的問題他們不是說你自己都不努力也沒有在我們的國人這麼多的駕駛你也不想辦法然後就一直在想是不是移工甚至是橋外生或者是中階技術人員他不是 像以桃園為例"},{"start":6785.842,"end":6804.84,"text":"市政府也幫忙 招尖峰時期的計時工 沒有人認真第二個 又開放一個老駕駛 還可以六八歲以內的老駕駛回鍋 都不成功就想方設法招新人 那都不夠我是建議 針對喬外申 因為他來這裡"},{"start":6808.723,"end":6823.235,"text":"學習在語言方面無論如何他有更多的機會能夠去適應不管是能夠去語言溝通比較OK跟我們他在念書的過程中在這環境也比較OK啦你們因為有推"},{"start":6824.335,"end":6839.727,"text":"我想這個陳部長的時候也說要推那我覺得在10月30號在觀光署剛推過了讓我們中階的移工啊能夠進入旅宿界我也希望交通部能夠繼續推這個好不好"},{"start":6840.327,"end":6864.95,"text":"好 這個部分我們目前在爭取當中好 台鐵公司台鐵公司就一個來 台鐵公司因為那天你們的副總來給他講了一下我剛剛也打電話給他我感覺他有點在亂講這是我們中立新人評價到每個月尤其下雨天下雨天就有狀況大概平均要堵40分鐘到一個小時"},{"start":6865.951,"end":6893.378,"text":"民怨沸騰啊那你說到底什麼車多那是我們自己的事嘛可是到底發生什麼事你注意看喔這是不到一個月三天發生同樣的事情上加班的時間車停在這邊他沒有走他停在這邊他就停在一堆人在等大排長龍然後人員在那邊指揮好可以走了可以走了可以走了"},{"start":6897.324,"end":6907.689,"text":"這連續因為臨近有兩個接近的平交道都在等結果發生什麼事呢因為你們的紅外線偵測系統偵測系統像這種叫標準的假訊號"},{"start":6913.368,"end":6933.187,"text":"標準的假訊號就是說你們在SOP我支持嘛但是準確度要夠嘛當有訊號一發出來兩公里司機可以接到訊息800公尺以內司機一定要減緩速度對不對 你們說的然後評價到之前一定要停住"},{"start":6934.068,"end":6945.459,"text":"停住即使是一個假訊號我也要停在那裡等到人員外面的人員站的人員到那裡看完之後整個弄完之後我說真的"},{"start":6947.163,"end":6963.294,"text":"鐵路上這個叫做標準的塞車塞火車也塞汽機車那可是問題到底發生什麼事啊你們到底那個訊號的一個系統我跟你講晴天沒問題我先講喔晴天幾乎沒有問題下雨天"},{"start":6964.932,"end":6982.32,"text":"就出問題是他紅外線的系統加上現在的辨識系統到底出了什麼問題這個我想次長你是軌道專家啦這個回去好好研究一下吧我跟委員報告我理解的現在他評價到現在應該不是用紅外線應該用所謂的影像辨識去"},{"start":6983.28,"end":7004.654,"text":"好 那你紅外線我們到現場去看紅外線還裝在那邊那也沒拆掉是兩個一起用剛剛我問那個副總是說兩個都有功能我的天啊這種警告號是你知道嗎只要一個很優一個比較差任何一個人出動警告就停了嘛"},{"start":7005.294,"end":7031.049,"text":"所以你不把那個舊的如果你認為它的精準度不夠你沒廢掉它一樣會出動警告嘛一樣會叫你停車拜託拜託回去好好研究這一個月就三次好不好好 這個我們來研究回去了解一下謝謝委員好 謝謝好 再請何新淳委員質詢何新淳委員質詢完畢之後我們休息十分鐘"},{"start":7035.919,"end":7046.551,"text":"好 謝謝主席那我們請次長 次長要喝口水嗎 次長要不要喝口水 我們核委員很關心身體健康很重要"},{"start":7048.479,"end":7075.89,"text":"好 謝謝主席 謝謝次長我想我要跟交通部來爭取這個台中的高快速路網不管是高速公路或是快速公路那我今天列舉了幾項我想次長應該要掌握進度因為這牽涉到大台中的一個交通路網的一個完善跟安全所以我說給市民一個安全回家的路是非常重要的那所以第一個"},{"start":7077.13,"end":7085.739,"text":"環狀的這個高速公路跟快速公路的一個成型我們非常感謝中央事實上有大筆的交通預算式投資"},{"start":7087.148,"end":7102.852,"text":"合訂給台中市我覺得這個一定要講清楚不然台中人都常常忘了我們中央是給了那麼多錢所以內環台74號其實全部都是中央補助對不對市長對所以他分兩段一個2002通車一個2013通車中環台74銜接國道1號"},{"start":7109.264,"end":7136.277,"text":"原本的預算是46億那後來因為種種的大環境的因素那預算成長了8億那我們也是全額的中央補助所以2024我們通車了我記得我也有去那大環是國道4號豐原跟潭子其實國道4號整個405億也都是中央全額負擔那2023也通車了"},{"start":7137.878,"end":7149.641,"text":"現在市長你看我們中央光是74號我們300多億加上之前的那一段這個更多錢那台74號銜接國道1號46加8國道4號405億那這些都是中央補助陸陸續續"},{"start":7161.066,"end":7169.611,"text":"補助給台中市的經費所以交通路線的完善事實上中央是大力的來支持但是我現在還是要提醒"},{"start":7171.26,"end":7194.381,"text":"外環 台74號銜接國道4號到台61線到國道3號現在各自都已經完成但是連接處其中一個叫台61線北延清水因為它可以銜接國道3號4號這對這個入網的成型非常重要第二個國山蘭岩龍井到大渡的這一個"},{"start":7195.512,"end":7208.157,"text":"我已經把它用一個紅色的框框框起來又有箭頭我們希望呢要讓海線更發展或者應該說讓大台中的路網更完善我認為應該還要把這兩個"},{"start":7213.318,"end":7236.053,"text":"連結起來這兩個工程目前呢交通部我不知道有沒有在規劃市長你知道嗎這兩個我理解的好像沒有不過我想委員提出這樣概念我覺得是很好剛講整個路網把六十一把連結起來我想我們回去我再請那個公務局跟那個"},{"start":7237.463,"end":7264.45,"text":"跟那個高中局我們看一下應該怎麼樣來讓整個路網更為優化我想這個這個構想非常好這個構想很好我覺得對整個大台中的發展是非常重要的所以我也會提案那我也請交通部主動開始來規劃是好不好那有規劃我們就有時程有時程我們就可以如期如實的看到未來哪一年可以來完成我希望我當市長的時候可以完成是可以嗎好"},{"start":7267.111,"end":7293.846,"text":"接下來我剛剛講的國一銜接台汽4號這個現在已經在2024年5月13號完工通車了那確實也對我們台中的環中路的這個庸塞塞車的現象大幅的改善那這個部分我也要謝謝中央的支持當時的張亮萬堅委員現在的教育部次長也跟我一起去考察去看完工的現場"},{"start":7295.872,"end":7324.731,"text":"這個那時候市長好像不是你去好重點是在於來接著下一頁重點是在於整個路網的要完成的除了這個剛剛的這個國一銜接台氣室之外我想對三層來講最重要的是東風快速道路那預計要2029年全線完工我為什麼特別要提這個因為呢我還是必須要再講中央補助了三分之二的預算"},{"start":7325.591,"end":7332.036,"text":"交通部要認真講啦地方都沒人知道啦來 總工程預算167.52億中央補助了內政部59.25億交通部49.96億加起來109億佔了三分之二的總預算啦"},{"start":7345.683,"end":7368.357,"text":"所以要給我們中央多一點掌聲跟鼓勵啦所以我要大力的幫你宣傳你也要自我宣傳好不好是好謝謝委員因為我要謝謝交通部中央對台中的這個三層東風快速道路的一個投資跟補助嘛對不對好那市長就你的了解2029可以全線完工嗎"},{"start":7373.476,"end":7384.121,"text":"臺中市政府在施工我們是不是會後我們再去瞭解因為我們瞭解這是市府在施工臺中市政府在施工那他們"},{"start":7387.322,"end":7410.782,"text":"公開講預計2029年要全線完工那我們中央補助了三分之二的總預算的三分之二那這個部分是不是應該我們中央也要了解掌握狀況因為我希望他真的能夠如期如實的完工給三層一個安全的生命線對不對這麼重要的一條道路那這條道路"},{"start":7413.274,"end":7431.607,"text":"如期完工之後還會碰到一個問題國道4號銜接東風塊立體交流道所有的節點通通要連結上來它的路網才會更安全 更方便更成為一個完善的路網"},{"start":7432.708,"end":7447.45,"text":"那我知道台中市政府2025年就是今年1月有送一個可行性評估報告那他們提出的總經費是26億那中央呢要負擔八成有沒有這件事中央要不要支持"},{"start":7448.948,"end":7475.141,"text":"因為這個屬於那個高工局的因為高工局今天沒來我是會後了解以後再跟那個委員報告那我要拜託次長交通部一定要全力支持我們東風快都已經補助了三分之二的總經費那國道4號銜接東風快的這個立體交流道也要跟著做也要一起來做因為如果沒有做的話其實我認為只做半套那路網要就做全套"},{"start":7475.461,"end":7491.73,"text":"好不好讓他更完善好不好 會後告訴我那接著剛剛講的是比較偏北的北台中那南台中我一直在爭取有一件事情很重要中投公路台63線銜接國道3號的立體交流道"},{"start":7492.47,"end":7508.363,"text":"為什麼這個重要因為南台中我們已經台74號這個環線非常的重要是變成是南台中一個對外連外的一個重要的道路而且大家使用率很高所以我在屯區有六順橋閘道今年9月已經通車十九橋閘道明年2月要通車"},{"start":7512.606,"end":7537.624,"text":"然後呢草湖閘道是也已經完工通車接著如果台63線銜接國道3號這一個立體交流道可以完成那他會打通國道3號國道6號以及台74號線的一個永設塞車的問題也會讓我們台中人用路人他的使用率會更方便更高那請問一下次長你知道這件事嗎"},{"start":7539.847,"end":7554.452,"text":"跟我們報告一下這件事情這件事情大概就是說在做可行性評估那大概整個可言的部分我們大概也兩度呈報這個部裡面那目前部裡面有一些意見叫我們再做一個檢討修正那我們預計12月底會再報給這一個部裡面"},{"start":7559.473,"end":7576.489,"text":"我聽說你們之前已經先有一個可行性評估送布 布也準了然後送給行政院然後行政院又發還給交通部又發還給你們說要修正是不是是這樣子嘛對不對那修正什麼時候可以趕快完成"},{"start":7576.889,"end":7601.155,"text":"跟委員報告目前我們提出來的這個可行性評估的部分大概就是新增這個五根閘道那這裡面大概這個建議方案是這樣子的一個這一個方向那這裡面那之前大概就是布裡面這個第二波審查意見還有一些這個就是說經費的檢討還包括這個土地取得這些東西請我們再做一個這一個修正那目前局裡面正在修正當中"},{"start":7602.795,"end":7618.446,"text":"我們12月底之前會再報這個交通部轉這個行政院好 那要盡快喔 而且準時喔我希望能夠這個行政院趕快的來核定我全力的來爭取支持 好不好好 謝謝文好 謝謝文好 謝謝好 我們現在交通委員會休息10分鐘10分鐘之後繼續開會"},{"start":8234.383,"end":8253.92,"text":"好 現在交通委員會繼續開會我們請陳樹越委員質詢謝謝主席 請主席邀請五次長好 次長請"},{"start":8260.389,"end":8276.129,"text":"市長早安本席今天想首先針對有關這個外送機車運價準則的這個議題來和交通部這邊討論那我們看到就是說交通部在去年10月份的時候有預告修正這個外送機車運價準則"},{"start":8277.891,"end":8294.888,"text":"那時候當然就是我們就是希望能夠訂出這個機車外送平台的一個運費公式並可視這個情況來加收等待費、樓層費、夜間的加成費或者是春節運費等等的費用來確保外送員的報酬跟收入"},{"start":8296.85,"end":8317.068,"text":"讓運費可以法制化透明化當時我們也看到很多的正反意見全國外送產業公會當時是有發布聲明表達支持肯定運價準則法制化能夠保障外送員的權益確保薪資穩定跟合理但是在消費者這邊"},{"start":8318.109,"end":8340.109,"text":"他們卻是認為說政府無需介入因為交由市場機制即可那消極會則態度比較激烈然後他們的措辭比較激烈就是表示說這個當時的草案內容有諸多不合理不明確之處會影響到消費者的權益勝據所以他們是表達反對的一個立場"},{"start":8340.889,"end":8360.103,"text":"那當然就是說就實際面來看其實是民眾跟這個店家是實際會受到影響比較大的一方他們也是擔心說這個外送平台多出來的成本是不是會轉嫁到某一方這個身上然後減少著民眾下單的意願"},{"start":8360.803,"end":8389.7,"text":"因為怕說導致這樣子的一個息息相關的影響會影響到民眾下單意願就會減少店家的生意也會讓這個外送員也沒有這個收入所以對於這樣子當時我們是沒有共識的我們看到說在11月今年11月我們交通部又重新來預告新版的外送運價準則所以我想先請教一下就是說我們對於去年跟今年的這樣預告的版本內容有什麼差別"},{"start":8390.715,"end":8418.334,"text":"我想跟委員報告我們立法這部分剛講我們預告大家會聽起相關民意然後去做一些修正那比較細節部分我是不是請林局長來做說明是跟委員報告這一個就是說去年10月10月跟這個今年10月預告的版本基本上內容這個修正草案的內容這個差不多那有兩個細項有做一個修正第一個細項的部分的話大概就是消費者的定義"},{"start":8418.914,"end":8446.345,"text":"那我們在去年10月預告的這個草案當中消費者是指這個民眾那這次在邀請大家去討論完之後那這個消費者再增加這個商家就是提供這個食品直接上下的這些商家那另外一個部分的話大概去年10月預告的版本那個成本的部分是每車公里成本就是跟現行的這個貨運運價差不多"},{"start":8448.206,"end":8474.576,"text":"那這次在修訂的部分是改成每單每單的這個成本大概比較細節的差異是在這個地方是那就是說經過這樣一年的一個就是去年預告嘛那經過一年的一個整合不曉得說對於這應該說四個方面包括就是平台還有店家消費者這幾個方面是不是都有一個共識"},{"start":8476.5,"end":8503.121,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告一下其實談到就是說保障外送員勞動條件的部分的話這個當然是一個比較多面向的一個課題但是就這個大家比較這個在意的這個薪資的部分那薪資的部分在這個未完還沒有討論這個外送平台專法的時候大家是把這個運價的透明化當作這個薪資透明化一個很重要的一個這個"},{"start":8505.643,"end":8531.696,"text":"這個參考啦那現在這個未還在討論這個外送平台的時候那這個現行委員大概也了解就是說各委員提出來的這個版本包括這個導動部這個要送出來願版的這個部分他把這個就是新制的部分已經回到這個跟基本新資有所做這一個連結所以這個未來這個不管是每車公里的運價或者是每單的運價這個"},{"start":8533.357,"end":8548.505,"text":"基本上是在這個就是說決定運價決定薪資裡面一個參考的一個部分這第一點我要做說明的部分那第二點的部分的話大概就是說11月在預告的這個版本基本上在討論的時候"},{"start":8550.766,"end":8572.286,"text":"相關單位還是有他們的一個意見但是經過這一年多來的一個這個唆令的一個部分的話這個已經是算是一個就是說大家比較有共識的版本那另外剛剛委員也特別提到這個消極會的一個意見消極會的意見之前都在所謂的這個授權法令依據的部分那這個部分我們也有充分跟消極會做一個這個溝通"},{"start":8573.815,"end":8590.198,"text":"是 當然本席時代見我們交通部重新修正並且公佈新的準則來保障就是這個外送員的這個權益啦那可是畢竟就是說在這一個領域啊這是一個服務的一個領域就是有供需就是互相"},{"start":8590.758,"end":8606.39,"text":"影響互相牽制的一個影響所以就是說外送員外送平台消費者合作的店家可能這個權益都要去考慮到怎樣去兼顧因為不要就是說一直專注在某一"},{"start":8606.87,"end":8624.538,"text":"一方可能會影響到另外的一個權益或者是說消費者的一個負擔跟成本我想可能也會間接導致這樣子的一個服務的產業鏈會去影響到我想這個應該就是我們要好好去考慮的一個部分"},{"start":8625.098,"end":8648.587,"text":"這個部分是不是東西我跟委員多做一點報告說明未來這個運價準則那這個剛剛次長講的說我們現在在預告聽取外界的意見完之後未來如果完成這個修法的一個這一個程序的話真正運價的那個費率的部分的話我們會有五方平台共同來做一個討論那五方的部分就包括外送員的工會"},{"start":8649.247,"end":8658.501,"text":"然後外送平台相關的業者跟這個協會還有地方政府還有消基會的團體還有這個公務局五方大家共同來做一個討論"},{"start":8659.286,"end":8688.742,"text":"是好那我們也希望就是說因為我們這個出發點是善意的那我們也希望就是說未來的就是說對於這個幾個方面我們都是要去好好審慎考量的部分好那接下來本席想請教一下因為我們今天有針對這個大眾捷運法的一個修法的一個草案那我想就是說目前有關這個捷運的運輸也可以說是地方就是我們這個非常便利的一個交通運輸的一個工具"},{"start":8689.322,"end":8718.262,"text":"那如果說以這個捷運運輸來說其實正常來講它的一個事故或異常應該就是應該說是比較單純就是電力的或者是機械的故障等等可是我們就是說在去年在2023年台中發生的那一件這個就是工地的一個起重機掉壁掉落這個鐵軌就是一個外來的一個一個意外的事故所以造成當時一個"},{"start":8719.242,"end":8738.44,"text":"一死十五傷的一個悲劇我想這樣子的意外發生真的是讓我們覺得很不應該發生的一個意外所以就是說當時這個意外發生之後我們也看到地方政府在處理調查上的態度都是非常的消極那我們也希望就是說未來我們要就是說"},{"start":8739.641,"end":8768.207,"text":"確保這個捷運到處運輸的一個安全我們在這個修法上當然我們有委員就是有提出了就是說希望在地方的一個主管機關他的監理的權責我們要去明定那就這部分想請教一下次長您的看法是謝謝委員這樣的一個提案我想雖然在還沒修法之前但是他的權責地方還是在他的地方應該是交通局一般是交通局"},{"start":8768.956,"end":8795.162,"text":"那對這部分其實我們都很重視以上是那個台中那個塔掉下來的事情那時候我們就要求他他在沿線某一個限定的範圍他必須要對針對所有的相關的工程師做要提到地方政府要去做審查這第一個那譬如說像我們這次的二月十九號他發生那個電線有點著火我們也去馬上去了解"},{"start":8795.982,"end":8808.608,"text":"到底什麼原因 然後他也召開會議 這個時候我們來請我們鐵道局也去配合 去了解到底的情況是怎麼樣我想這部分我們會跟地方一起合作讓整個這個捷運的部分 希望能夠更安全"},{"start":8809.338,"end":8829.097,"text":"是我想就是說這個捷運的運輸就是說除了他軌道的這個線路的內的一個安全之外對周遭環境地方政府應該要更積極的去負起就是管理跟監理的一個責任是所以就是說對於我們這一次有委員提出來的這樣子的修法版本我們交通部是"},{"start":8830.251,"end":8858.239,"text":"應該是贊成對 贊成的 我們贊成我們認為這是對整個安全提升是有幫助所以我們非常贊成我想這也是我們大家共同的一個應該是共識就是健全大眾捷運事故的處理跟安全管理的制度我想這對於就是我們的旅客的一個安全真的是一個非常重要的一部分好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝好 接下來再請林俊憲委員質詢"},{"start":8869.298,"end":8877.361,"text":"好感謝主席本集邀請我們交通部五次長五次長 鐵道局的楊局長楊局長請委員好"},{"start":8882.453,"end":8911.046,"text":"市長好謝謝主席局長非常感謝我們大概我前幾天有辦了我們台南鐵路地下化的會刊市長那時候沒有到部長有親自到了我們現在大概地方當然非常期待我們那天去也再次確定明年底通車的計畫大家知道這個工程對台南非常重要那台南市區的鐵路地下化以後呢在接下來"},{"start":8912.006,"end":8925.355,"text":"就是永康的鐵路地下化這個總統有親自提過他希望台南市永康的鐵路地下化能夠在明年底前綜合規劃能夠通過"},{"start":8928.918,"end":8943.386,"text":"這點要中央跟地方再來多加配合這要越早走越好你看永康的鐵路地下化總長度我們就簡單用總長度來做比較它好像比市區還少了還短了兩公里"},{"start":8944.326,"end":8965.587,"text":"永康有6.72公里而且比較單純市區大概有8公里他比較低短了1公里多但目前出估的總造價就比市區的鐵路地下化要多了快100億這差不多要300 60億"},{"start":8968.14,"end":8995.16,"text":"所以這個月早競速完成相關的規劃我們在期待能夠在永康的鐵路底下把永康現在台南已經算作是像大興建區還有三處平交道 三處路橋這個都非常的落伍但是除了市區跟永康以外其實台南還有目前申請中的"},{"start":8996.281,"end":9019.891,"text":"因為台南的鐵路跟其他地方不大一樣幾乎都是通過市中心的心臟地帶我這裡有一個也要跟 尤其是養殖場我們那個仁德的鐵路地下化你們在鐵路 其中最可怕的在保安崗的故鄉我本人 我自己的經驗我在車上等那個火車交匯 我就評價到10分鐘"},{"start":9023.891,"end":9041.505,"text":"你看 我那個非常非常可怕啦對高通 對電 這是最大的傷害啦 就這裡的鐵路啦但現在喔 如果我們把永康高架化可以把永康中正樓一段的平交道"},{"start":9042.786,"end":9063.277,"text":"彈碎橋的地下平交道都可以消失所以沒有平交道的阻隔讓仁德 人德發展會更好現在這個博文之前我已經通過可行性研究評估市政府已經通過它即將送到交通部來"},{"start":9064.4,"end":9091.76,"text":"所以我只要跟楊局長說市政府的這個計畫仍得的鐵路立體化就高價化了拜託高隆坡這邊盡快來跟我們協助審理那請局長或市長是 我跟委員報告一下剛才先說剛才說到的鐵路立體化不 台南市的部分我20號沒有去但是其實在前一個禮拜我有先去看我跟委員報告"},{"start":9093.661,"end":9121.146,"text":"在明年底一定可以通車 我跟委員保證好 打包票一定會沒問題那永恆剛剛講的 現在大概請鐵道局盡快來辦理後面的中規我想這部分我們會來加速因為他比較單純 那也許他這個過關時程可以相對比較短 簡短一點 這我們來努力那另外是人德的部分 我想如果地方政府完成又送上來 我想我們這部分我們全力來協助"},{"start":9122.006,"end":9150.459,"text":"好 謝謝你知道台南市是長條形的 鄧都營的以南北的狹長東西比較窄所以南北在台南市這個一定要把它處理掉這個軌道你現在認得在南北嘛現在就市區嘛市區之後還要重拔到營空對 營空市區永康都要低消化那你除了永康就到了南科南科就是新區到省華"},{"start":9151.92,"end":9173.317,"text":"所以我也要跟兩位做個參考這星期的鐵路這個也是高架啦 就立體化可行性研究市政府也在去年就送到交通部來審議啦交通部這各位2025年的11月交通部也有去實地現勘"},{"start":9175.253,"end":9197.418,"text":"你知道南科現在很重要南科現在整個產值已經大於竹科南科現在已經產值兩條竹科才1.5兆兩邊的拉鋸會越來越大前兩天的新聞報導台積電最新的廠那個三奈米廠 兩奈米廠還要再擴廠"},{"start":9199.571,"end":9216.486,"text":"目前優先選擇也是在這裡所以現在醫藥進存變成重要是而且南科是你知道吧台灣的半導體這是世界的等於說世界的中心在半導體的世界台灣就是宇宙的中心"},{"start":9218.479,"end":9245.964,"text":"還要有這個平交道 那是很不好的尤其南坑鎮村就是深圳和省華所以我深圳和省華我們還是應該要把它做高架消除這種平交道因為深圳 深圳很嚴重的深圳有五個平交道 中正樓的平交道光華街的平交道 南窮街的平交道民俗樓跟大英村的平交道"},{"start":9246.724,"end":9266.612,"text":"如果鐵路立地外以後大概新市這五個平交道就可以消除因為以那個高架上升的原因所以新市車道要向北刷兩公里目前可行性評估這個已經送到交通部了五個平交道以外還有一個寒凍有一個收台匯交招投卡的"},{"start":9268.072,"end":9286.68,"text":"總經費大概一百四十二億多目前這個計畫也在交通部交通部也去研究看看去看薪資的例子所以拜託交通部這邊也在盡快的來完成相關的審查是好 這我們全力協助那薪資之後就會選我選我選我 市政府現在當你做那個"},{"start":9289.612,"end":9308.007,"text":"這個十月 去年十月完成期中報告 今年四月 你提期末報告期中應該 我們很快的上來 人家搞農泡啦生活 新居生活 現在大家都聽過了 全都忘記了 也聽過了 知道這是藍膏嘛尤其生活是最奇特的啦 你要看這個圖 我不知道你那邊看得到嗎"},{"start":9309.188,"end":9333.758,"text":"可以看得到 你看得到喔你看以鐵軌 鐵軌切割上化以東 你看那秘密麻麻的發展區對 秘密麻麻的發展區以東全部都是農田 阿哥就是一看就知道未開發區嘛所以鐵路嘛 嚴重的切割了把剩下的發電農嚴重的割一片"},{"start":9336.184,"end":9344.39,"text":"所以以前有很多時候 兩個鐵路 東邊 西邊 發電池 因為交通不便利西邊沒辦法過東邊 交通很差 現在還有兩個路橋這兩個路橋也做得很差 北邊是光文路橋 南邊是台上路橋"},{"start":9355.678,"end":9378.508,"text":"公文路橋和台商路橋 我們鐵路如果駕駛了 這兩個路橋可以停掉當然一時間會比較有難度 因為現狀是兩個路橋所以可能施工要有考量到替代道路但這個部分市政府正在做相關的評估所以這個線化 哪個高架化 就是等於整個南科高架"},{"start":9379.969,"end":9393.402,"text":"從仁德市區永康新市上化這個整個鐵路對整個台南發展的切割可以完全的解決所以我要拜託"},{"start":9394.403,"end":9409.837,"text":"我們交通部吧 這個中央已經有這樣的一個計畫 決心啦那我們交通部應該要全力來幫你協助 好沒有問題就等那個地方政府送上來以後 我們全力來協助好不好 就說上外兩個路角 公文路橋 台行路橋 藝園你給我兩個評價道 修行駕路 還有坐駕駛路啦"},{"start":9415.422,"end":9443.009,"text":"你不要聽那個路民聽起來好像很奇怪那是那是早先遲後啦都嚇死了 現在已經很發電了 但科學去把鐵路掛掉了好不好 希望我們家都能夠全力協助那我們一定會啊 一起來中央地方協助把台南市的軌道 這鐵路的問題我們把它解決掉我們要把它全線立體化 高架或者地下化好 謝謝主席 謝謝我們市長還有局長 謝謝委員好 謝謝"},{"start":9447.54,"end":9470.803,"text":"接下來再請郵號委員自選謝謝召委那有請次長好 次長請好 委員好好 次長好"},{"start":9472.207,"end":9485.766,"text":"市長還是在這裡也謝謝交通部對於南投線的許多協助在今天上午的時候麗嶺站有個區間車發生了一個公共安全的事件"},{"start":9487.108,"end":9508.226,"text":"目前還沒有台鐵的一個回應那就是在今天上午清晨的時候發生一個疑似離電池自燃的一個事件那就在車上是煙霧瀰漫還就是非常的恐慌那目前這個事件的一個詳情傷亡跟整體的處理狀況"},{"start":9509.787,"end":9534.015,"text":"那目前是還沒有一個就是說法交通部的說法或是台鐵的說法那我想說藉這個機會那也可以說明一下那接著我們來討論一下這個行動電源自然跟離電池風險的公共運輸上的安全管理的一個規範那想先請市長回應是我先簡單回應一下剛剛講像這個行動電源其實在部裡面非常的重視"},{"start":9535.235,"end":9549.584,"text":"今年大概七八月的時候部長有特別召開這個會議要求來討論這個行動電源的問題那現在剛剛講我們大概一開始會宣導說你希望你用的是合格的一個行動電源所以這個會去做宣導第二個"},{"start":9550.484,"end":9578.776,"text":"你的行動電影希望能夠放在你到時候放在你可以看到的地方你不要放到背包然後沒看到這樣就容易產生問題那當然即便這樣也有可能有些旅客沒有注意到所以這部分我們大概要求台北公司針對這個行動電影他有可能有一些要Made for的這樣的一個機具或包括像我們的一些應變措施請他再去做整個的盤點那剛剛我想是不是比較細節我請那個總經理來說明"},{"start":9579.936,"end":9593.948,"text":"報告委員今天是212次的列車在行駛到麗英站有發生了這個行動電源的一個自然的現象那是在我們的試車發生的那發生以後我們就馬上有通報入境"},{"start":9595.569,"end":9619.98,"text":"那我們因為每一節車廂前後都有滅火器所以我們的車長還有路警到場這個馬上也做了一個滅火那路警也收證完了以後我們就讓這一台車上的旅客進行也疏散到2124次的一個列車所以整個時間處理完7分鐘那列車也開始繼續在做正常運行"},{"start":9621.401,"end":9639.809,"text":"這做一個報告那我們現在目前也針對這個案件做了幾項的一個檢討就包括說再加強宣導讓我們的旅客在這個攜帶行動電源一定要確保他是經過合格認證那行動電源要放在可以看見的地方"},{"start":9640.669,"end":9656.62,"text":"那不要邊充電邊使用那希望透過這樣的一個措施來做一個防範那我們也會再加強這個演練訓練讓我們的疏散還有旅客的安全都能夠得到更好的一個保障以上"},{"start":9657,"end":9684.337,"text":"好 謝謝那宣導的三原則這樣子剛好大家社會各界也可以民眾也可以藉此機會了解那所以說想問一下在目前統計上高鐵或台鐵那或是公路客運在這五年來有沒有做這個離天池就是自然的這個事故在公共運輸上的一個統計那以及說目前來講有沒有納入這個國際運輸安全指引如ICAO或EASA的相關規範那以及說剛才的"},{"start":9685.077,"end":9711.038,"text":"就有提到的說在跨部會的做一個檢視來看這個鋰電池的部分會不會自燃那因為他涉及到經濟部的產品驗證消防署的火災特性跟交通部的運輸安全那這個部分會不會有相關的指引做產出我跟委員報告剛提到幾個我想這個我們會後可以統計給委員知道各個包括台鐵高鐵這些大概都少數有幾個這樣的案例來產生"},{"start":9712.369,"end":9732.445,"text":"那剛剛提到 透過我們還是希望 剛剛講合格的這樣的一個產品是比較 我想這是最起碼要求那後續這個應該會大概有給我們一些建議 我想我們後續會依照這樣的一個建議包括對整個的應變 防災的這些內伙的這些規劃我們再做一些來規範點好"},{"start":9734.286,"end":9748.283,"text":"那因為接著像是離電池的這種如果在發生自然的時候是不能按壓因為這樣子的話反而是更危險所以它可能在列車上的話需要有就是人的部分跟物的部分那如果說人的部分的話乘務員"},{"start":9749.264,"end":9774.456,"text":"他們有沒有相關受過這種離電池自然的一個防災或是這種滅火的演練那以及說之前有沒有受過這樣的訓練或是未來有沒有規劃也會讓成屋園他們在就是在運輸的過程中能夠有這種應變能力那以及在車廂的部分除了滅火器之外有沒有相關的這種所謂的國外就會有一些離電池專用的滅火毯或是阻燃桶等等的一個設備"},{"start":9776.737,"end":9801.768,"text":"對 這個剛剛講 包括人員訓練還有剛剛講的媚火器 那有些可能不是媚火器可以用的有些用水 那剛剛講媚火台也是一種方式我想這是我們後面我們再去做研議要推動的一個重點好 那若是因為乘客的吸入這個煙霧不適那相關的這種後送或者是相關的這種應變的措施跟流程那也就是說有沒有類似說如果因為"},{"start":9802.848,"end":9811.622,"text":"這一種類型離電池的自然或是相關的這種自然這種在台鐵或是高鐵這種類似就是旅客的一個統一的補償辦法補償辦法有嗎"},{"start":9819.431,"end":9842.744,"text":"報告委員我們針對第一個對於我們行動電源的燃燒我們現在目前都有一個SOP在處理那剛才市長還有委員有提到有沒有一些相關的一些防火帶或防火毯的設置這個我們也在做檢討那旅客的部分我們所有旅客都有乘客的保險那如果旅客有相關的一些受到一些損傷影響我們都會透過保險來做一個賠償好"},{"start":9844.665,"end":9871.631,"text":"那因為這是公共運輸的一環那因為今天這起事件那也希望說相關的指引的一個目前的一個資料也可以送到本席辦公室那也希望乘客在這種使用在日清月義下使用各種的物品的時候那也能夠在公共運輸上不會去影響到他人那統統有確保公共運輸的安全那同樣的在台鐵的台中站25號有一個婦女被夾在這個"},{"start":9872.711,"end":9900.173,"text":"就是鐵軌旁邊那還好所幸無事那想問一下目前在交通部有關於高鐵或台鐵那相關的這個防護閘門的進度那目前的情況如何甚至如果說高鐵的話它是因為區間的距離是都固定的比較好架設那高鐵的部分未來有沒有需要說在每個站的部分其實也如台北站一樣有這樣的防護措施"},{"start":9901.174,"end":9920.472,"text":"因為有時候小朋友奔跑或是在人多的時候推擠的時候都會有這種安全性的考量那另外在台鐵的部分大站的部分要不要也能夠有相關的一個措施我想我這個跟委員報告高鐵部分我理解是他都應該都已經發包了我想他所有月來大概都會做"},{"start":9921.132,"end":9942.15,"text":"那台的部分現在因為剛剛提到它每個車型都不一樣所以做起來會比較考慮的因素會比較多一點所以現在在高雄我們做一個示範的這樣的一個月台閘門就算是一個房屋門的這樣的一個工程我想把這個做好之後我們再去把它回饋到我們會去針對於"},{"start":9943.211,"end":9970.829,"text":"每一個車站檢討他的需求性也許比較窄人比較多的這樣的車站我們再去做這樣的一個越來房屋門的一個情況好那最主要是大戰悠閒因為人多擁擠那就讓小朋友奔跑那我想問一下那因為我剛才看到旁邊的同仁也要補充那現在要發包的話目前預計什麼時間之前在各站高鐵可以完工以及說台鐵的部分那有沒有哪幾站後面會加測"},{"start":9975.725,"end":9998.395,"text":"跟委員報告一下那個高雷公司的除了台北站以外11站的月台門都已經發包那有依照這個車站的大小還有發生次數的多館然後陸陸續續在建設什麼時候完成發包預計什麼時候全面的都會完成因為我們民眾可能會比較想要知道發包預計所有的站11站都完工的時間"},{"start":10000.239,"end":10020.394,"text":"那個發包的部分都全數完成了全數發包出去了只是說施作是陸陸續續施作我知道施作的話預計最後一站施作完成的時間是什麼時候那我找一下 馬上回報一下沒關係 你會後提供資料好了 好不好還是你現在手邊有資料好 你馬上讓他看一下"},{"start":10021.649,"end":10042.97,"text":"那台鐵部分我們在高雄車站現在在做試辦那明年的1月我們會整個裝設完成整個月台300米裝設完成那我們預計3月會整個運轉測試完成那完成以後我們後續陸續在各站推動我們會試各站的人潮還有環境條件去提一個我們的這個"},{"start":10044.691,"end":10066.928,"text":"按照工建計畫去提一個中長城的建設計畫來持續來推動確保各車站的一個人員的安全好那謝謝因為至少算大戰優先好不好謝謝好那有嗎等一下如果沒有是不是會後再給我們會後再提供給OK好好謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":10073.24,"end":10102.633,"text":"好 接下來再請廖先祥委員質詢好 謝謝主席我今天大概一樣延續昨天在院會質詢的這個測速照相的問題主要武政事應該這不是你分管的嘛不是喔 沒關係那就請兩位市長好不好吳市長跟吳市長還有我們運營所 王副所長來 我們市長市長你休息沒關係啦你休息"},{"start":10108.973,"end":10124.082,"text":"好 謝謝我們上位長官其實你們是相對比較專業我就不用像昨天在院會質詢一樣講那麼多的背景脈絡資料那當然這幾天車速照相的一個議題我相信你們也都有看到引起非常廣泛的輿論的討論那當然我相信車速照相"},{"start":10127.504,"end":10141.476,"text":"設置的目的一定都是為了道路的交通安全來設置的那為什麼民眾感受不到我們政府是為了安全而設置而是感覺是在像斂財那是不是其中有出了哪些狀況我想"},{"start":10143.43,"end":10169.405,"text":"最大的兩個問題我昨天有說了第一個就是一個不合理的速限不合理的速限那另外一個就是設置的一個地點那我先跟大家分享一下我自己一個經驗我自己實際上開車的一個經驗我有一次走在國三那經過了一個地方然後突然前面突然車子是靜止的狀態那我自己其實有煞住了我有煞住了但是我後來被後車追撞那當然後車它自己沒有保持安全距離或是它煞車的功能這是後車的問題"},{"start":10170.626,"end":10184.323,"text":"但是確實也是因此發生了事故後來我一看前面也沒有塞車為什麼我會為什麼會突然我需要前面停住我也需要停住後來看旁邊有一隻測速遭殭機我就想會不會是因為這隻測速遭殭機造成了前面的駕駛人因為他不確定他有沒有超速"},{"start":10188.007,"end":10198.373,"text":"突然的一個減速造成了車輛依據減慢速度造成了有車輛停止導致我因而在高速公路上面發生事故其實我想這種情況應該也是沒有很少見其實剛剛講的兩個問題第一個是不合理的速率另外一個是設置的一個地點的問題"},{"start":10210.319,"end":10236.421,"text":"那不合理的速率這一點我知道我們交通部我忘記哪個單位應該在前年的時候有做一個我們我國那個道路設計速率的一個限速的一個研究報告到底是要用設計速率往下調來當作速限還是要用85分位的自然流速來調我知道你們想請我做個報告雖然說那個報告我不是很認同但是因為在報告過程當中"},{"start":10237.56,"end":10252.947,"text":"其實我沒有看到太多國外的經驗是支持大區段就是設計速率的方式來訂速限反而是好像看報告的過程都是支持85分位速率的或是調高速限的支持比較多那結論不知道為什麼就是用成這個設計速率"},{"start":10255.228,"end":10259.733,"text":"那沒關係我知道設計速率還是85分會這件事情要去調這個全國性的一個問題那包括這個要調的話那可能會是一個大的克里或是地方政府他可能也有權依照現場的情況去調速率所以我覺得認為這速率這一件事情就先擺在旁邊我們先討論測速照相機"},{"start":10275.852,"end":10291.284,"text":"設置的一個問題所以說我要先請教我們的這個運營所我們算是專業的幕僚單位我們有沒有曾經做過測速照相機設置對於道路交通安全的影響相關的一個報告"},{"start":10295.731,"end":10321.374,"text":"報告委員我們是沒有針對這樣的題目去做研究報告因為大部分來講因為測速照像這個部分都是後續在完工的陸續在偵測出來 是 他大部分的經驗就是因為發生了那些地方常常又發生車禍而且車禍的原因事後檢討起來跟超速比較有關所以在這種情況之下那有警察警政單位在在這個路段上面去偵測出來的"},{"start":10322.535,"end":10337.854,"text":"所以我們不會在道路一開始在設計的時候我們就可能認為說哪一個路段他可能是相對的危險譬如說他前面有急彎然後可能我們來設置一個測速道的降機來做一個警示希望他發慢速度我們道路在"},{"start":10338.995,"end":10353.95,"text":"當初要興建的時候並沒有這樣的規劃而是在事後由警政單位然後再依現場的情況或者說是有沒有發生個案來設置我們的社都道將軍設置的一個邏輯目前是這樣子嘛對不對是的 因為道路設計的時候是以安全為原則"},{"start":10355.111,"end":10379.192,"text":"所以一般來講在交通單位來講他最強調的除了剛剛講設計速率跟地形的這個變化去決定他的路型的設計之外對於比較容易發生狀況的當然憑經驗也可以有瞭解那一般來講我們會用標誌標線的方式去提醒駕駛人原則上在這樣的情況之下是提醒駕駛人在這地方要小心過彎或是前方有岔路進來這種狀況我們比較會採取所以我們有沒有檢討過"},{"start":10382.875,"end":10400.461,"text":"當這些測速照相機設置了之後那它到底有沒有對我們要改善的一個問題來進行改善或者是它甚至有沒有可能去發生一個負面的效果譬如說我剛剛自身的一個被追撞的一個經驗因為我們可以看到我們全台灣的一個造勢的一個統計"},{"start":10402.682,"end":10421.342,"text":"因為超速和肇事的統計資料的比例一直以來都是非常低的那肇事的一個案件其實也是持續的攀升所以我們都沒有在做一個系統性的測速照相機設置對於道路交通安全的影響的一個評估從來沒有做過"},{"start":10422.335,"end":10446.716,"text":"一般來講這是行為的問題確實我們沒有這樣的課題去做研究不過也跟委員報告因為自從有測速照相這樣技術出現之後我們應該政府不是以處罰為原則是 後來陸陸續續有配套就如果有實施測速照相都要在前方的一定距離之內要有民視標示去提醒這地段有測速照相就是認為讓駕駛人在進入這個區塊之前就已經有這個事項"},{"start":10450.219,"end":10472.998,"text":"那我請問一下我們有沒有做過我不確定是我們運營所或者是我們兩個司有沒有做過我們一般來說都有自然流速嘛對不對自然的行車速率那我們有沒有做過在可能在一般的省道在一般的省道假設我在沒有測出照相機的一個情況下大概這個自然流速的多少的百分比以上它其實就是一個超速的行為"},{"start":10474.705,"end":10488.201,"text":"有沒有做過這樣子的一個有沒有做過這樣子的一個研究我們應該都是以所謂的那個道路的設計速率為原則去推出來的而且不希望這條道路上有太多不一樣的樹線因為這會造成駕駛人"},{"start":10490.684,"end":10509.125,"text":"我剛剛問的問題是我們有沒有做過就是這個區段假設沒有測速攝像機的話我們會有一個自然的行駛的一個速度嘛對不對全部的人的一個行駛速度那這全部的人行駛我們去分100分位嘛那有大概多少分位以上的一個超過多少分位以上的比例它其實是會超速的"},{"start":10510.787,"end":10525.479,"text":"有沒有做過這樣的統計其實我們沒有這樣的一個統計沒有做過這樣的一個記錄所以就是我們的道路其實它如果說我們希望駕駛要降低速度的話我們除了測試超相機之外我們應該還有其他工程手段比如說"},{"start":10527.26,"end":10549.287,"text":"縮減道路路幅無論是用實體的或者說現在的可能去年才開始實施的一個切形標線其他都是一個縮減道路路幅的一個方式來讓駕駛人他在行駛道路的時候能夠依據道路的一個現況視覺上面的一個感受而去降低速度而不是因為大區段的一個關係導致部分"},{"start":10550.328,"end":10558.896,"text":"這個非常寬敞的道路那我們自然人體去感受這道路的時候我們是可能會用比較快速的道路去行駛但是這樣子快速的行駛可能反而變成了一個超速這是我們可能在道路設計上面的一個問題不只是交通部我相信這可能牽扯到內政部的一個道路設計的一個問題"},{"start":10569.986,"end":10594.958,"text":"我瞭解那個委員所提的就是我們在道路設計的時候有些環境因素參差進去之後那會導致民眾在不知不覺的狀況下會提高速度在行駛這就是委員所提的所謂的習慣速度的問題那這部分在道路設計的時候其實應該我們會比較傾向就是說在道路設計的時候就應該把這因素拿入去像委員剛才提到的這個部分用比如說路幅"},{"start":10595.478,"end":10612.104,"text":"或是用所謂的特別的這個變化的這個設計的方式讓它速度自然的下降我提供一些方向時間到我提供一些方向給我們交通部或者是我們預言所我覺得剛剛我提到了一個就是在自然流速的情況下在一個可能省道上面我們找幾條省道我們來這個來當作標的來研究那"},{"start":10617.186,"end":10633.153,"text":"我們在沒有測速照相機的情況下自然流速大概會有多少百分比以上的人會超速如果這個路段在沒有測速照相機的時候下如果說有一半的人他其實是超速的話那到底是我們的駕駛人愛違規還是我們的道路設計會讓駕駛人違規我想這個就是民眾在做的一個非常反彈的一個原因我們明明道路這麼大"},{"start":10641.537,"end":10667.578,"text":"你沒有去在道路工程上面去給我們做一些限制卻要叫我們把速度降成這麼的低我想這就是大家對於測速測量機非常反感的部分其實如果說我們有一個合理的限速如果是在適合的地方去做測速測量機我相信民眾不會這麼的反感那就是因為我們有過低不合理的速限或者是說我們在剛剛講的康莊大道上面而不是說在一些危險的路段"},{"start":10668.439,"end":10687.566,"text":"提前去設置去警示那大家就會覺得說我們這樣的測速撞機是不是在搶錢所以說就兩個部分第一個就是我們剛剛我希望我們後面可以做的就是一個自然流速的情況下在神道有多少人會違規那在這樣子的情況下我們這個路這樣子的一個條件是駕駛人愛違規還是我們道路設計的問題如果說是道路設計的問題的話那這種道路應該"},{"start":10693.768,"end":10704.276,"text":"它存在撤出僵機它是合理的嗎來從中去探討這個問題好不好那因為今天時間有限我希望後續我們再約個時間到辦公室好好的來針對這個問題來做一些討論以上 謝謝好 謝謝接下來再請徐富奎委員質詢"},{"start":10723.983,"end":10733.897,"text":"謝主席有請我們交通部武次長然後台鐵馮總經理武次長馮總經理請還有警察局的鐵路警察局的廖副局長廖副局長委員好"},{"start":10740.3,"end":10755.009,"text":"次長 總經理好 還有我們廖副局長好我想今天特別討論這個鐵路法的重點就是在於這個我們旅客暴力事件的這個影響那根據我這個跟台鐵公司詢問的相關的一個數據112年這個"},{"start":10758.931,"end":10777.816,"text":"暴力事件是2件 那去年113年到了7件那今年到目前為止 哇 已經激增了又2倍 目前已經高達14件那我想針對這個部分 不曉得交通部跟台立局有沒有什麼樣的一個因應作為是 我想跟委員報告"},{"start":10780.137,"end":10794.93,"text":"沒有錯 最近看到大概有幾個台鐵的一些從人員在第一線碰到旅客的一些暴力事件那在今年六月左右吧我記得那時候大概也找了那個內政部嘛 市長我們有跨部會來協調對 有協調過"},{"start":10797.532,"end":10827.032,"text":"那時候大概我們的短期是這樣子幾個作為第一個就是我們希望這個陸警局的這個巡邏的頻率增加那當然我們配合我們的人員我們的台鐵公司的人員還有保全的部分這個算是一個聯訪的機制頻率各自增加然後讓讓這個整個的這個場站的部分可以看起來會比較好一點那第二個就是我們在每一個場站不見的時候一定都有所謂的陸警局"},{"start":10827.953,"end":10842.011,"text":"這時候我們是跟會跟地方的警察局會有連線所以一旦發生事情的時候我們直接會就近這個尋求這個地方警察的一個這個協助另外當然我們的幾個同仁我們這邊剛講電視上我們進行一些"},{"start":10844.634,"end":10872.088,"text":"所謂的訓練包括怎麼去面對這樣的不理性的旅客當然還有一些防身基本的防身的這樣的一個訓練那比較細節的部分是不是請馮總在那邊說明一下也跟委員報告就委員的數字可以看出來114年其實如果再細部看前半年6月我們跟內政部還有陸警大家採取相關的措施之前是上半年是發生的事件"},{"start":10873.408,"end":10901.627,"text":"我們正式帶著我們跟內政部協調以後我們下半年其實就有大幅的減少到四件我們是七月八月各一件九月沒有發生十月十一月發生一件表示現在目前採取的措施是有幫助不過我們的目標是零讓它不要發生總經理我想我們另外一個數字看一下我們台鐵公司在這個北區營運處"},{"start":10903.248,"end":10913.978,"text":"越台保全加廠站保全三個人中區沒有半個人南區八個人你想這麼多的廠站我們這樣的保全人力夠嗎"},{"start":10915.376,"end":10938.266,"text":"第二個剛剛次長講的我們鐵路警察局我之前也協調爭取了在我們潮州火車站做了一個我們的陸警的一個巡邏站但是後來你們也跟我們反映說你們的人力不足那我們屏東縣政府警察局他們現有的勤務也很繁重人力也不足你要建那幾萬他也很困擾他們不是不做"},{"start":10938.766,"end":10965.622,"text":"是他們自己本身的治安維護的工作也很繁重那要支援到我們這個鐵路這一邊確實也是歷有未待那像這樣子保全人力跟我們見景率的不足我想這個部分應該是一個很我們要很正式很嚴正的一個課題我們當然不希望暴力事件發生但是一旦怎麼樣強化這個見景率跟保全的一個巡邏的一個密度我想應該要有更積極的作為那不曉得這個交通部願不願意來協調這個事情"},{"start":10967.573,"end":10996.453,"text":"這部分我想剛提到會針對煤站的情況 它情況可能不太一樣包括它的競技站人數 那過去我們看它的風險性的高低 我想這部分我們可以來考慮一下 研議一下看是不是有必要來增加這個保全的人員 我想這個保護員工還是我們最大的一個目標因為我看你們的配置來講 比如像屏東歸來跟林落不算大戰 但是"},{"start":10997.954,"end":11019.891,"text":"你們有安全性的考量配置那比如像是潮州也好屏東也好這些我覺得這個夜間班次多而且很容易有單身女性進出的地方我認為更需要加強這樣的一個保全跟一個見景率的一個巡邏的密度我想這應該是要去做一個勤務的一個調動這不能不能兩個月之內給我們一個報告好不好"},{"start":11020.151,"end":11045.389,"text":"好可以我們現在目前跟委員報告我們目前也在針對特等站一等站還有比較特殊的這個需求的車站我們去檢討人力包括入境支援的地方警察還有我們自己需要的一個人力缺口那我們做一個通盤的檢討兩個月內可以提供給委員了解我們整個未來會推動的相關措施"},{"start":11045.709,"end":11062.859,"text":"像台鐵有針對這個夜間婦女有一個專用的車廂嘛但是走出來之後就不一定會安全啊這也要考慮進去吧我想這個應該是做到更全方位的一個保護啦我們會來盡力來做好謝謝我們請回那我們接著請公路局我們林局長謝謝"},{"start":11071.411,"end":11093.861,"text":"局長我想根據我們這個數據顯示 2019年全台有637條的公路客運路線那載客的人次超過1.28億人次那到今年已經縮減到只有剩下529條那比以前之前更減少了108條那營收的部分跟2019年同期相比"},{"start":11094.641,"end":11117.718,"text":"載客量下滑了37%那營收也下滑了將近4成我想這是一個很值得警惕的一個數字那尤其我們這個工會最近也提出幾個訴求包含票價調整然後還有這個運價合理成本的一個補貼的一個計畫我想這個部分不曉得交通部跟公務局有沒有做這樣的一個調整的一個方向"},{"start":11118.587,"end":11141.802,"text":"是這個部分我大概簡單分兩個層面跟委員報告一下第一個部分剛剛委員所提到108年到114年大概公路客運路線包括國道客運大概有減少108條的部分那這裡面基本上有絕大部分就是一般公路客運路線移波當市區客運那或者是優化或是調整成這個小航空車的一個這個路線"},{"start":11143.743,"end":11162.981,"text":"那第二個 第二個部分在這個月十一號 那科運全體委員會有把這個依照程序兩年 這個可以送票價調整建議方案送進來 那目前這個局裡面在做這個出審 那如果說相關的這個都符合程序符合規定的話 我們會提送我們的那個公路科運審議委員會來做一個討論"},{"start":11165.522,"end":11183.348,"text":"這個我想我還是要特別強調這個交通平均這件事情那尤其都會區這個不管是這個客運也好這個捷運化也好鐵路也好我想都會區都非常的便捷非常的方便但對屏東我們這種鄉下偏鄉也好這個你們現在把客運路線一直在縮減"},{"start":11184.628,"end":11212.737,"text":"我們的小黃公車那個路線又沒有普及這些長輩真的要出門都沒地方坐真的很可憐那我之前我也跟局長特別提到我們很希望爭取用小黃公車來替代這個大眾運輸當然是基於這個客運者的成本考量跟人力的需求但是小黃公車你要增加一定要開放這個計程車牌這部分我想之前我有麻煩局長研議過那不曉得目前的進度到哪裡"},{"start":11213.836,"end":11238.798,"text":"跟委員報告就是小黃公車的這個部分的話大概主要會有兩個來源第一個部分就是說那個新584這個主要的部分會有兩個來源一個是這個利用計程車小黃公車來服務那另外一個部分的話像現在滿洲還有來利等等的部分就是透過在地協會大家共同來參與這個包括這個自用車轉換成這個市區公車的這個部分來做一個處理"},{"start":11239.378,"end":11258.786,"text":"那針對小王公車的這一個增加的部分的話在這個上一次這個公路法裡面大概有已經有這個委員有這個提案修正一讀審查通過就是未來這一個無障礙計程車的這個部分的話就不列在這一個就是原來這一個額度裡面那未來公路法修正"},{"start":11259.786,"end":11283.905,"text":"這個通過之後這邊的一個額度就會釋放出來因為小房公車我們通常會要求就希望就是用這個無障那個就是說無障礙的這一個計程車來做個使用達到兩個目的除了當公車使用之外那另外我們也知道在偏鄉地區可能有一些這個比較行動不方便的這個老人都可以坐輪椅直接上計程車"},{"start":11285.081,"end":11306.055,"text":"因為我知道我們很多長輩他們這個小公車這慣習要有個依賴性那我們這個司機大哥也很貼心所以變成這個是一個很依賴的一個乘客跟這個司機的一個關係那你沒有增加人數沒有增加車輛我們沒辦法去拓展普及這個偏鄉的一個交通行為我想這個要趕快來努力好謝謝好謝謝接下來再請黃建豪委員質詢"},{"start":11324.403,"end":11326.675,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們一樣請交通部次長吳次長吳次長請"},{"start":11334.318,"end":11362.577,"text":"委員好市長好市長首先我們一開始先看一個數據就台灣這幾年我們整體來講我們自行車的市占率其實下降了依據我們這個相關統計來看的話但是市占率下降的同時我們在自行車的這個不管是電動的自行車電腐自行車還是一般的自行車我們整體來講我們的事故率反而上升了包含說自行車的騎士事故率上升了6.9%那少年自行車騎士的事故率上升了25.2%"},{"start":11364.338,"end":11379.29,"text":"所以從數據上看起來我在自行車部分因為這種有的沒有不管是自己的一般的普通自行車也好還是所謂的微型電動二輪車也好它的事故率整體來講是上升的那我想這個昨天那個新聞台中的這個所謂的這個自行車的這個"},{"start":11380.031,"end":11406.517,"text":"觀光的步道觀光的這個車道也是因為電動代步車的關係有很多人騎得特別快然後來撞上了所謂的這個自行車那在其他的新聞部分也是非常多的新聞就看到說電動代步的工具事故頻傳那民眾也會常常因為這種電動代步車沒有明確的法律依據也沒有明確的這個責任險保險的問題所以導致除了事故之外事故發生之後相關的保險工作也沒辦法釐清"},{"start":11407.617,"end":11428.187,"text":"那在所謂的之前交通部提出的個人行動器具管理規範指引裡面這種事故目前來講看起來也是無法可貨不管是剛剛提到的電動自行車還有所謂電動滑板車這部分相關的指引到底什麼時候才能夠明確的上路我想這個部分是不是請次長或是相關單位來做個明確的回覆我是不是請次長說明一下"},{"start":11430.462,"end":11454.532,"text":"跟委員報告我們大概之前已經有請那個運營所有幫我們就兩個部分一個是電動滑板車的部分運營所這邊已經有給我們一個指引的初稿我們現在已經在彙增各主管機關還有地方政府的意見彙增中我們預計是在12月底希望能夠將這個指引提供給地方政府來做一個參考"},{"start":11456.053,"end":11469.891,"text":"那另外有其他慢車的部分那我們也在最近也也已經去彙增那個各地方政府中了那也期待是在12月底之前能夠有一個完整的指引來提供給地方政府來做一個參考"},{"start":11470.819,"end":11487.469,"text":"因為這個之前也說是給地方政府就是說到底各地方的狀況地方政府來訂定相關的這個標準或法則可是因為像這種電動滑板車也好或電動自行車造成的問題我想是全國性都有相關的問題那還有警方執法說到底"},{"start":11488.109,"end":11513.64,"text":"能不能執法我到底要依據哪一個條例來開罰或者是做相關的指引如果再次去要求地方政府去訂相關規範那反而沒有全國一致性的東西出來這部分我想這樣講機車很明確 汽車很明確但是電動自行車它到底是自行車而且很多電動自行車其實說真的很多人改車之後他的騎的速度他有時候比機車還快"},{"start":11515.081,"end":11538.272,"text":"還有電動滑板車到底能不能上路這是我去年11月28號已經過了一年了在這個咨詢的時候有提過一個類似的相關的問題我們分很多種我們光是電動類的各種運具有電動代步車有電動輪椅有電動輔助自行車微型電動二輪車然後剛剛提到的現在新增要去討論的電動滑板車跟電動平衡車等等的這個各種運具裡面"},{"start":11540.473,"end":11558.669,"text":"在路上跑的我想這個相關的法規範很不明確我們沒有辦法很明確的知道說到底哪些屬於道交條例能夠規範的部分哪些屬於不行規範的部分這部分你可以看得很出來已經執行過一年之後我想相關的制度還是不完善不知道到底交通部對這個事情到底怎麼處理包含說"},{"start":11560.05,"end":11579.007,"text":"電動滑板車依法或電動平衡車依法它是不能夠在馬路上跑的不管人行道也好還是混合車道還是自行車道它只能在私人的內部空間去做使用但是很實際上來講我們在馬路上還是能夠看到電動滑板車或電動平衡車在路上跑來跑去還有像五維型電動二輪車跟電動輔助自行車這兩種運具它的"},{"start":11583.371,"end":11591.159,"text":"差別是什麼它的明確的法規範是什麼它跟機車的差別又有什麼不一樣這部分是不是交通部有什麼樣的做法"},{"start":11592.975,"end":11614.489,"text":"跟委員報告其實現在法規上大概都有明確定義就是說只要慢車的部分還是由地方政府他要規範適當的一個區域跟相關的條件來提供民眾使用要有相關的規範那所以這個部分之前地方政府大概有蠻多個地方政府他們都已經有訂了一些自治的一個規定了"},{"start":11617.111,"end":11637.456,"text":"那之前大概有地方政府提到說因為他們不知道怎麼訂定或者是怎麼去規範的部分包括應該依據什麼法規要做什麼樣子的一個調整的部分那這個就是我們後續去指引的部分會協助地方政府來就提供給他們做後續如果訂自治規範的時候的一個參考"},{"start":11638.815,"end":11662.131,"text":"現在交通部立場是像這種我剛剛提到因為現在各種不同類型的車款商品化不斷出現那你們在規範這部分到底是依據車種我想應該這樣講啦你們現在看起來明確你們是在依據車種去定向規範但是我覺得民眾在使用上比較明確的感覺是說是車數它的車數如果能夠"},{"start":11664.1,"end":11680.487,"text":"變快那你去釘釘車種的意義就不大了就像我提到了嘛這個所謂的電動輔助自行車或所謂微型電動二輪車它跟我們傳統認知的電動機車好像是不一樣的東西對 但是它實際上的速度會是一樣的它可以做到一樣啊"},{"start":11681.673,"end":11702.593,"text":"這部分我說跟委員補充報告一下剛剛委員所提到的部分 按照車種的分類的話基本上有大型車 小型車 機車那機車裡面也有分大型重型 普通重型跟這個小型輕型那現在一般我們講的機動車輛之外其他的大概歸類為半車 那現行在處罰條例裡面明確規定"},{"start":11703.354,"end":11718.612,"text":"那慢車就包括腳踏自行車還有電動輔助自行車還有包括剛剛委員的完全以電力輸出的微型電動這一個二輪車那後面隨著這個產品的一個發展就有所謂的這個電動滑板車這個個人行動"},{"start":11720.715,"end":11735.117,"text":"這個載具出來那這個部分的話在處罰條例裡面也這個規定這個是可以上路的但是因為我跟委員報告一下因為有一些這個就是說相關車種是可以在道路上面使用那有一些是可能必須要供用這個"},{"start":11737.219,"end":11761.761,"text":"這個人行道的部分那這些車種的一個差異剛剛委員有提到一個重點有些是以速率來做這個限制那有一些是在車輛的規格上面也有做相關的規定比如說像這個微型電動二輪車還有這個電動輔助自行車還有包括這個個人行動載具這個電動滑板車這個部分速限都在這個25公里裡面但是到了每一個地方"},{"start":11762.561,"end":11789.578,"text":"去的時候因為這個道路空間都不太一樣可以允許走的這個空間也都不一樣所以在處罰條例裡面這個東西就是有一些是必須要讓地方政府去考量他本身這個可以行駛可以安全行駛這樣子的一個部分所以在條例裡面就是授權由地方這個自治來做一個這個管理那剛剛委員也這個提到對於這些新型的這些相關這個載具的部分"},{"start":11789.958,"end":11817.427,"text":"那要如何去做開放這個等等部分其實某種程度啦我大概也跟委員這個報告各地方政府也是在看隔壁的縣市是不是有開放或等等的部分那對於比較新型的部分程度剛剛副市長所報告的一個部分就是說大家要訂這些的時候去看國外但是回到國內的國情要如何做考量這個部分等等的話可能也必須要一些這個專業所以部裡面這邊之前大概就是請這個"},{"start":11819.167,"end":11843.538,"text":"這一個運營所這邊包括可開放的條件這些等等的部分希望有個完整的一個指引讓各地方政府來做一個參考我想因為我從去年講到現在已經也是過了一年了當然現在目前運營所今年才會提出相關的建議跟指引但是我們可以看到還是要強調我們剛剛抱歉開始分享的數據跟新聞就是各種新型的電動的車輛或者是它的不同的這種運輸的功能"},{"start":11845.319,"end":11859.618,"text":"它實際上上路造成的風險造成人身的傷害如果我在新的這個質疑裡面沒有明確規範的話我想未來還是會一樣嘛因為你們提出的質疑說要求地方政府去訂定問題是這種東西是全國如果沒有一個明確的法規的話包含說"},{"start":11860.559,"end":11879.821,"text":"使用者他會覺得說那這個它不是明確的法規範它只是一個地方的自治條例或者是地方上這個步道可以騎有的步道可以騎有的步道不能騎那這部分的定義如果不明確的話對於用路人的安全是有影響的所以我們希望說不管預言所或是交通部你們要在訂定行動規範上明確的把各種車種"},{"start":11882.288,"end":11903.648,"text":"應該先這樣講啦不要再單純用車種去做限制應該是單純應該換個角度想用它的效用它的速率用它的速度來定向的規範會比較明確不然未來再出新的我還沒有想到是什麼但是未來如果再出新的交通載具的時候發現法規範裡面又沒有這一條的話它是不是又是自由奔放的去上路然後也沒有法規可以限制會不會這個問題產生"},{"start":11905.779,"end":11928.659,"text":"我想剛剛那個文所提的我們剛剛講這個指引大概是年底會出來我想這些我們再去回去再檢討一下再跟那個地方政府大家再努力讓這個指引讓它更完善那剛剛確實如果要整個全國都一致性因為每一個地方的條件不太一樣所以我們是希望還是這樣子就是我給你一個指引"},{"start":11929.339,"end":11948.665,"text":"你各地方依照你的特性去訂定你相關的一個規範我想這個執意你訂出來的我想大家應該有個執意來參考我想訂規範應該就比較容易啦好 市長謝謝好 謝謝黃江浩委員好 謝謝我們相關官員 謝謝好 接下來再請許智傑委員質詢"},{"start":11963.736,"end":11987.968,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請次長 鐵道局 台鐵公司吳次長 楊局長 以及馮總經理請委員好謝謝 次長好那個局長 董事長好我們先看那個大港橋BREAD PINK這一張你覺得這不錯看嗎"},{"start":11991.052,"end":12019.126,"text":"我們城市行銷事實上高雄市政府其實這不是市府的工作是整個城市的工作所以Blackpink的時候其實這件事情本來是小事啦但是就一直都沒有落實所以我在這邊也公開的再要求一下就是說城市行銷配合高雄的行銷那Blackpink來那大家都很熱絡然後就通通用粉紅系列那Blackpink來的時候就只有我們鳳山車站"},{"start":12020.816,"end":12042.862,"text":"沒有亮燈好你可以看這細節好幾個有流音中心港府我們的旅運中心美麗島捷運站愛河高雄火車站高雄車站衛武營然後私立圖書館大立等等H2O水那個"},{"start":12044.113,"end":12069.384,"text":"我們再看右邊這一張藍色的這一次TRACE到高雄來其實每個地方也都有一起去響應那就是大港橋 雲中環 等等的都有大家可以看圖就好那我不知道這個以鐵道局的立場可能就是說那個藍色的這一天我們有拜託鐵道局有亮一天"},{"start":12071.394,"end":12095.086,"text":"那我覺得這個是整個城市行銷我們鳳山車站不能獨立於外你看連高雄車站都有為什麼鳳山車站不能所以這個部分我想說我們鐵道局當然是工程單位我們能體諒工程單位比較不會思考到觀光的角度但是你看台鐵公司跟市長你們是不是覺得這個一起來響應是好事"},{"start":12097.712,"end":12114.606,"text":"包委員 委員所提的確實剛剛講的整個城市行銷我想以台鐵公司來講這個大陸我覺得是應該要盡量配合那我不知道是不是因為他有故意到一些相關的經費或經營問題有沒有那是"},{"start":12117.273,"end":12139.086,"text":"沒有聯繫就是現在是高雄車站現在已經交給台鐵公司了那鳳山車站現在還是鐵道局還沒交給台鐵公司所以這個到底亮不亮是要鐵道局決定還是台鐵公司決定那以我們交通部的角度我覺得是好事那看應該要怎麼做比較好"},{"start":12140.875,"end":12166.783,"text":"我想我這剛講的未來這個事情我會責成一個單位來負責這個事情在還沒交給台鐵之前就是由鐵道局來做交給那個台鐵公司以後就由台鐵公司來負責我想這窗口就這樣定那未來如果還有什麼問題我想所以我們後續在還沒交接之前就是鐵道局來負責是好那這個這是兩個你可以看到高雄車站都有點好我們看下一張"},{"start":12169.686,"end":12196.833,"text":"這個是高雄的同志遊行那當然就是可能每個人觀念不一樣但是這個也是城市行銷你看我們的流行音樂中心好幾個地方高雄已經好幾個地方都是就是說這是一個城市行銷那台鐵那個現在鐵道局給我們的回復是說他可以點黃色的他不能點彩色的"},{"start":12202.229,"end":12227.438,"text":"應該黃色是我們平常點燈的 是的平常的狀況那我想局裡面的做法應該是這樣就是說後續只要是市政府的城市行銷活動我們原則上都來配合是可以配合市府的市政府 沒問題好那這個我們就要看有沒有做好我想再講一個觀念因為次長在這邊次長你可以看到我們預計就是說"},{"start":12229.525,"end":12239.23,"text":"之後我們要辦有可能高雄市現在要有可能要辦一個那個2028會申請一個世界同樂運動會"},{"start":12241.561,"end":12262.932,"text":"這個是國際級的一個活動我想整個城市行銷應該是要提前做佈局所以現在就是說在鐵道局還沒交給台鐵公司之前我們就拜託鐵道局來處理事實上台鐵公司應該開始要有那個比較長遠的觀光跟我們這個商場的推動的一個視角"},{"start":12264.286,"end":12275.041,"text":"你可以看到這個亞洲同類運動會這個是一個國際賽事那基本上其實我們還會在我們高雄市明年會有世界原住民運動會"},{"start":12277.335,"end":12306.349,"text":"那這些其實都是來自世界各國國際人士都會來所以我想我們交通部的角度就是說我從觀光交通部局所以我們要看得比較遠所以相對的就是說那個楊局長你可以先回座因為你這件事情只要有完成就好那後續我們會再跟那個鐵道局保持聯絡好 謝謝那這個部分我們希望說台鐵也慢慢的有這個長遠的思考"},{"start":12307.748,"end":12330.383,"text":"所以這個牽涉到就是說那個交通部現在有TPAS 社長很熟那台鐵這個都有參與那現在TPAS就是完全只是針對交通但是你看那個大阪好玩卡它是包括交通 包括景點這些都一併的考量在內"},{"start":12331.724,"end":12359.851,"text":"那我也要求很久了我從111年就開始在講那時候王國杰當部長的時候那個時候TPAS剛開始實施那北北基一個我們高雄也率先實施所以那個時候我已經在要求這個TPAS但是後來我一直希望說TPAS可以結合好玩卡現在應該是亞洲做最好的是大阪卡"},{"start":12361.397,"end":12387.385,"text":"那大阪卡之外呢現在韓國有所謂的轉轉卡都是用交通結合景點那當然我要求這麼多次一直沒有具體的成果我是在思考T-PASS的經費在公路局那景點的經費謝謝 謝謝那個市長那個景點的經費是在觀光署"},{"start":12388.584,"end":12412.684,"text":"那這個到底有沒有辦法就是說讓交通部來主導然後看觀光局跟觀光署跟公路總局看怎麼樣去互相去配合那能夠結合好玩卡其實這個才會真正推動觀光啦那目前好玩卡其實比較成功的就是台北跟高雄我們高雄其實目前是推動得比較好的那"},{"start":12414.213,"end":12420.659,"text":"那個觀光在地的局長高雄市政府的局長也一直在擔心說這個觀光署這個補助不知道會不會減少"},{"start":12422.386,"end":12450.278,"text":"那我去查就說坦白講TPAS的經費真的是還不少啦當然這是好事我們都要鼓勵但是如果是結合觀光點變成好玩卡是不是交通部應該要有這個概念就是處處都是打卡點 部部都是觀光部那這樣子台灣從科技經濟跟觀光經濟的角度我們也才能夠確實的再去提升所以這個部分是不是那個次長"},{"start":12451.499,"end":12463.05,"text":"跟公路局跟觀光署那甚至台鐵我們將來都要去做一個商業行銷這個對我們來講都有幫助這個有沒有可能會完成"},{"start":12464.305,"end":12484.899,"text":"現在的 剛剛提到交通的部分是已經把它放到那個TPAS裡面啦當景點目前是確實是應該還沒有啦我想我們或許再針對這系統還有剛才的需求這個補充要不要回答一下這個部分我跟委員這個請他報告一下這個確實這個是兩個界面整合的一個這一個課題啦"},{"start":12486.801,"end":12500.794,"text":"那後面這個就是說就是如果說比較涉及這個觀光或商家折扣這些相關的一個部分的話大概據我所了解這一個觀光署這邊大概也有台灣PASS這些相關在做一個處理那問題就是"},{"start":12501.254,"end":12516.407,"text":"就是說兩個東西如何在整合在一張卡裡面那這個卡我也跟委員報告這個大概是一個技術性的一個課題就卡本身是一個欄位要擺放不同這個相關金額怎麼去扣款的課題"},{"start":12517.128,"end":12544.194,"text":"那這個食物面的一個部分是那張卡到這邊也可以用到那邊也可以用那這個部分我想我們再跟觀光署這邊再來討論一下這個虛實這個怎麼有這個可行的方向可以來做一個這個處理我們再討論一下我想就是我每次問完如果回去就沒了那就我已經問很久了"},{"start":12545.234,"end":12569.109,"text":"所以是不是就是由誰來主導公路局或者是觀光署或者是交通部來主導那這個事情總是要有一個單位他願意去主導 願意去整合你才有機會 不然我已經說三天了 三天就沒結果了現在再說下去沒分配人做 後來也是沒結果了"},{"start":12574.863,"end":12597.632,"text":"因為這兩個都不是我夜館是不是讓我回去我再跟Torrent討論一下再跟委員報告好不好我是這樣子結論坦白講在公路的角度他要去思考到全國的觀光這個觀光點的那個結合坦白講還要去跟很多不管是公部門還是私部門要去洽談"},{"start":12599.116,"end":12618.034,"text":"你叫公路總局來洽談可能困難多關所以這應該是在觀光署為主導觀光署現在就是跟公路局比較就是經費的問題經費的問題看公路局跟觀光署要怎麼分配怎麼去結合這個事情我認為應該是觀光署要擔下來"},{"start":12619.478,"end":12647.614,"text":"但是觀光署在跟TPAS的經費的分擔的時候可能拜託次長就是說以交通部比較高的層級那公務局跟觀光署怎麼樣再去協調整合找一個平衡點這樣比較有機會可以完成所以如果是把這件事情當作一個事情來做的話要一個靈魂去負擔這件事情要完成的靈魂人物這個靈魂人物觀光署是不是可以擔下來"},{"start":12654.247,"end":12670.939,"text":"會後再給學問因為真的這不是我夜館我現在可能也沒辦法直接做這個決定次長 局長 署長在這裡吧那我們就下一次只要有公路局 只要有觀光署我就要問"},{"start":12672.678,"end":12689.01,"text":"那你們趕快協調 不然說得太久都沒用包括景點的尋找 包括經費的分擔可能交通部內部要去做一個溝通協調 好不好好 下一次準備要給我答案 好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來再請陳學生回原職"},{"start":12701.909,"end":12714.36,"text":"好 謝謝 趙偉是不是請武次長還有鐵路局武次長 鐵路局 楊局長總經理呢台鐵公司某總經理某總經理楊局長不用"},{"start":12721.638,"end":12744.893,"text":"董事長請坐董事長生病了有請教董事長手術開刀有請教膝蓋那邊不好開刀祝福一下我想請問就是這個董事長在台鐵高鐵任內你看高鐵我在這邊待了14年了在交通委員會高鐵從一個虧損的單位"},{"start":12749.56,"end":12754.109,"text":"變成現在有盈餘了這很好的事情那鐵路局目前虧損的狀況怎麼樣"},{"start":12756.383,"end":12779.599,"text":"包委我們去年 鐵路公司對 去年按照我們的會計的報告我們是營運虧損是137億131年喔對 1年但是主要是去年我們還有很多的公司成立我們要做的公司的一些資本的投入還有我們員工福利的一個負擔比如說我們"},{"start":12780.299,"end":12786.973,"text":"到植服會的基金我們就投入了23億所以這些成本計算進去是那公務部門有沒有做一些補貼"},{"start":12789.047,"end":12813.142,"text":"在我們的這個票價的一個補貼去年並沒有補貼那因為是我們的不是你們票價漲了以後會不會財務運轉會好一點對我們票價在今年的6月23號這個實施以後我們就這將近半年的這個統計我們平均的營收大概成長30%市長我是請你回去跟部長報告一下是"},{"start":12814.543,"end":12836.116,"text":"鐵路局啊高鐵的品質我們可以改善嘛對不對他的整個的財務結構可以改善鐵路局有很多的比如現在營運啊你可以加強嘛賺點錢嘛是不是那你鐵路公司你看那個土地有那麼多你可以做一些充分利用嘛"},{"start":12837.233,"end":12859.366,"text":"所以充分利用嘛你要有一些精進的作為啊能不能答覆我能不能做一些精進的作為的報告到提到我們交通委員會來好不好可以 我跟委員報告齁剛講的 以台鐵來講它當然我們就今年的6月23號有調整票價吧所以票價部分當然利潤沒有 幾乎沒有利潤但是至少打平了啦"},{"start":12860.27,"end":12888.619,"text":"那他還有其他的副業還有一些資產開發資產開發我現在是要求台鐵公司他整個把它盤點出來他全就全國的他所有的這樣的一個土地哪些可以做開發他們要把它列管每一項每一項去做我想這部分是目前台鐵公司也在做啦那如果光靠本業恐怕要去賺錢恐怕有困難因為只要一漲價大家都會影響到"},{"start":12889.439,"end":12916.365,"text":"大家民眾嘛那能不能有一些精進的計畫可以就可以能夠多久能夠提出來給我們教論委會參考好不好我們是不是三個月提給那個三個月可以三個月送一份給我好不好好 那總經理你請回幫我跟董事長問候一下好不好祝福他早日康復下面請那個是不是請召委請公路局公路總局公路局林局長請"},{"start":12920.509,"end":12938.191,"text":"局長你上任多久了跟委員報告四個月四個月我還在考一些你的問題馬祖大橋你聽說過有聽說過以前有當過市長一點點應該很多啦你在局裡面躺了多久了你知道嗎"},{"start":12940.101,"end":12969.431,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告委員上次有這個你不要老是講行政院國發會講那一大堆的委員上次有要求有要求要跟臨江大家有一個工作會議的平台啦那這個部分舉例名也按照這個委員我在總執行跟院長提到你這個馬祖大橋要做一個新鮮的一個推動小組推動小組你初期你你現在你看11 12 123馬上要準備上後年的預算了"},{"start":12971.772,"end":12989.018,"text":"院長說要350億350億就350億嘛350億你分十年一年35億啊你要有個推動小組的計畫嘛對不對初期的話由你來任召集人再升級到部長再慢慢來嘛你起碼開個會能夠邀請我去參加嗎"},{"start":12990.542,"end":13015.018,"text":"會不會有壓力各位報告您的這一個指示我們有照辦所以不是照辦我沒看到啊我一點感覺都沒有現在局裡面那個已經就是11月27號那個第一次工作會議要召開我們有邀請包括這一個路安司包括民進黨局包括這一個不是局長還有次長本席對尤其對行政院院長做的總諮詢"},{"start":13017.642,"end":13046.81,"text":"我想各單位你們要去履行這個事情是不是你不能把它當作耳邊風啊你看那個可行性先期規劃可行性評估花了1億5又因應商又去做一個評鑑對不對這程序一直都在走啊到現在停了三四年停在那裡不像話嘛你看那個金門大橋做好了明年那個交通部長又講說淡水大橋也要合攏了是不是"},{"start":13047.763,"end":13072.992,"text":"明年要通車 已經合攏了明年通車 合攏就通車了那你馬祖大橋還趟在那裡幹什麼現在人家講新市通老共那邊啊 老共從那個劉武殿他的橋已經伸出來了往金門走他準備先做一半 已經在施工了局長 次長你們知道這個事嗎"},{"start":13076.368,"end":13098.986,"text":"不知道喔 改天我把新聞照片我本人也到那邊去看過啦他們做橋欸 要通金門欸做西勢通還真的在做欸 不是假的喔這不是假新聞喔所以你這個馬祖大橋這個推動小組你11月份我要看到好不好11月27就是這禮拜四第一次會議我希望局長你邀請我參加以後我不參加好不好"},{"start":13099.525,"end":13118.255,"text":"好 是 可以嗎 跟委員報告第一次會議在27號就是這個禮拜四這個禮拜四我是先請我們這個那個副局長主持 因為禮拜四教委會有排宜蘭那你主持才行啊你副局長主持 我跑去幹什麼那這樣子我時間是不是再也再也容許我們再做個調整"},{"start":13119.998,"end":13147.538,"text":"你調整一下看看在延後一個禮拜也可以嗎不然跟我們報告是不是說第四會議先讓副局長主持然後第二次會議我來這個主持那我第二次會議去好不好第二次會議你邀請我去好不好好 是會因為這一定要推動啦國內重大建設你看現在檯面上的政治人物口口聲聲在那邊講重視離島偏鄉那重視什麼像是財化法把我們錢也沒搞多變得越來越少後來我很勉強提了一個財化法的案"},{"start":13148.649,"end":13176.301,"text":"你不管怎樣 我們明年要活得下去活不下去了嘛 是不是所以我才追溯到四個月生效行人穿越是你管的嗎市長 行人穿越我跟你講現在這個行人我們要禮讓行人有沒有這個辦法是非常好車禍可能也少了嘛 對不對我最近開車"},{"start":13178.035,"end":13203.434,"text":"我發現我要三個紅綠燈才能夠右轉所以警政署今天也有來警政署請你們回去跟交通警察講一下你在交通的尖峰時間有沒有尖峰時段行人穿越的時候你要疏導嘛是不是請他們行人要快步走那有殘障的這個沒辦法你要快速的通過嘛"},{"start":13205.353,"end":13226.679,"text":"所以你們是不是交通部要研議一個行人穿越法應該有點規範吧那不然他在慢慢 慢吞吞的在那邊走那車輛不要走了你幫行人的權益弄好了那開車人的權益在哪裡這也是一個問題啊 是不是我們很尊重行人喔我在這裡講話我很尊重行人問題是你也要給"},{"start":13227.982,"end":13245.307,"text":"給這個開車的人有一點空間嘛 是不是是 這個我跟委員報告我們是不是到時候針對幾個路口的個案去討論是不是有所謂的行人專用實相 我想他人行道比較長的啦像東化南北路啊對 這邊條件夠的話就我們利用所謂的行人專用實相我想這樣會這樣會比較好"},{"start":13248.117,"end":13264.168,"text":"好不好好這個拜託次長還有那局長拜託你啊那個馬祖大橋那個那個推動小組啊你要積極的推動讓行政院也看得到我們縣政府也看得到老百姓也看得到好不好報告委員公務局都非常積極好謝謝好謝謝謝委員好謝謝陳學生委員請回謝謝接下來請邱祿華委員質詢"},{"start":13279.895,"end":13286.001,"text":"謝謝主席 主席請武次長還有警政署交通組陳副組長副組長請委員好 次長好"},{"start":13300.843,"end":13317.51,"text":"市長我有提案修正第30條之一那我有看到這個報告就是這第30條之一要提高機車行駛道路與手持方式使用行動電話還有等有礙駕駛安全之行為那這邊這邊的回覆是因為現在113年違規案件數從51771件然後就跟112年比較下來81000"},{"start":13326.234,"end":13346.627,"text":"171件有大幅下降所以建議維持現行的罰款額度持續加強宣導還有執法所以交通部這邊的態度是要維持現況嗎我們是希望因為看我們這樣過去執行的情況下來是有改善所以既然有改善我們是建議說還是維持原來的這樣一個額度"},{"start":13347.347,"end":13374.464,"text":"是 因為我有看到警政署的統計光是今年1月到8月份駕駛的行為不當開罰的項目中光是手持行動電話還是有45,971件那在機車的部分還有26,148件那這樣子的數據都顯示駕駛分心還是很普遍的狀況嘛那另外根據現行的道路交通管理處罰條例第31條之一騎車抽煙只有罰600塊那這完不足以嚇阻"},{"start":13374.984,"end":13399.944,"text":"所以修法案中他就已經明確的有指出了騎車抽煙會造成煙霧還有煙會飄散影響後方的視線還有引發事故還有二手煙的危害所以我有提出修法那修正草案中吸煙制影響行政安全的罰則要提高到2000元那從這樣子數據看下來次長您認為我們是不是應該要來提高這個罰則"},{"start":13401.586,"end":13416.377,"text":"跟委員報告我想這一些相關的法則我認為應該有所謂的比例原則啦那剛剛也提到了我們現在看起來它的一些目前的效果看起來是有往下減少啦所以我們是這樣建議啦"},{"start":13417.638,"end":13429.474,"text":"如果跟112年113年這樣比起來是有可是我們再看114年剛才我有提到1月到8月那還是有4萬多件51771件那今年45971件其實是下降的幅度並不大"},{"start":13436.86,"end":13451.777,"text":"跟委員報告因為我們我們收集的數據他還是持續在下降中那我們是認為說其實加強執法跟宣導會其實現在的法則考量橫平性我們是建議持續用修法的方式持續用那個"},{"start":13451.837,"end":13467.227,"text":"那個執法跟宣導的方式加強那我這邊也請問陳副組長那警政署的資料也有顯示今年1月到9月駕駛吸菸影響行政安全的曲率汽車是1070件那機車是3890件那這個遠低於實際違規情況這個曲率量明顯不足 您知道為什麼嗎"},{"start":13479.057,"end":13495.155,"text":"系列的部分就起地的部分是比較藍一點那手持價值的部分手持手機這個部分我們可能會再去持續的要求那我目前手機手上的數據是看今年手機的部分就是3萬3千多件1到16萬"},{"start":13497.685,"end":13525.384,"text":"為什麼會這麼問陳副組長因為有民眾反應有員警根本也不清楚騎車抽煙可以開罰那民眾像員警反應反而還會來員警的嘲笑這個部分我們再加強員警自己本身會不知道這個部分我們再加強那個宣導是 那目前這邊也有請問我們陳副組長那警政署目前的取例量過低你們有沒有具體的提升的改善計畫"},{"start":13528.489,"end":13551.743,"text":"有關這個基礎抽菸這個部分我們去年還是一萬六千多件那今年是一到十月份就是有六千五百多件這個部分我們還是會這是去年的數字嗎去年是一萬六千多件去年一萬六千多件那今年到九月是六千五百多件那其實這個根本與實際的情況不符啊"},{"start":13554.467,"end":13573.148,"text":"其實就是香菸這個部分我們先為大家實際的要求跟著縣長同仁再做一個取締因為我知道目前獨家跟酒家有列入重點的對這個部分重點的執法嘛那有沒有將吸菸跟分性價值也同樣的列入呢包括目前還是以獨家跟酒家是最大的重點"},{"start":13574.011,"end":13601.503,"text":"是 那我也希望就是分性駕駛然後還有這個吸煙 騎車邊抽煙這個也要列入重點是因為非常民眾現在他們最大的抱怨就是騎車抽煙沒有辦法檢舉可是剛剛您有提到嘛其實這個是有難度的必須遠景在現場然後同時構成三個要素嘛手持香煙 還有吸煙還有影響他人的行程安全它必須要同時成立"},{"start":13601.883,"end":13629.328,"text":"那這樣的 也請問次長跟我們警政署這樣子的方式是不是在放棄執法沒有放棄啦 這只是說目前的重點可能是今年的毒價比以前更嚴重所以我通常在執行這個取締的時候重點都是放在毒價這個部分這個CNA的部分就可能比較沒有那麼注意到"},{"start":13629.588,"end":13646.387,"text":"因為我認為不只要加強就是我們對民眾的宣導那員警他們自己本身也要知道因為民眾都已經向員警現場來反映了嘛那他們就是希望這個問題可以獲得改善因為這也非常困擾民眾他們就已經在停等紅綠燈了那停等紅綠燈"},{"start":13647.088,"end":13661.242,"text":"然後旁邊有機車駕駛在抽煙那他們要怎麼樣來改善他們都已經不能檢取了包圍這個部分我們會再發文來給各警察機關來做一個駕降取締這個周圍"},{"start":13665.21,"end":13693.188,"text":"市長因為這個問題因為民眾暴露在二手煙的環境它的風險是50%那在路上路上的二手煙更高達30%那也有很多家長不管是在小朋友上下課然後他們也同樣是暴露在這樣的環境當中所以這次本席也提出了修法希望可以提高那也同樣就是讓民眾知道騎車邊抽煙這個行為是有依據可以改開法的是"},{"start":13694.649,"end":13707.94,"text":"我剛剛這邊手上的資料我們看起來應該是131到9月還是持續在下降有改善那我這邊是這樣的您的是件數是多少"},{"start":13709.258,"end":13737.404,"text":"到九月是三萬一千一一三四五萬一千有下降是好是嗎那我們還是希望有更多民眾就是不會有在路上有這個行為所以說我們我們的意思說現在目前的這個機制看起來是應該還有一些效果啦所以我們希望能夠朝這個方式繼續再往下再去宣導來這樣來執行所以我們希望可以擴大宣導那交通部可不可以就是聯通我們警政署然後還有衛福部共同的來宣導好那下一個"},{"start":13738.204,"end":13764.247,"text":"我們也可以看到今天也有很多委員在討論我們看到台灣的地圖幾乎被測數照相淹沒的畫面民眾沒有感到更安全反而是更焦慮警政署的資料114年9月到9月開罰1096萬件其中超速違規的高達181萬件最關鍵的問題是靠開罰也沒有改善道路目前"},{"start":13765.428,"end":13786.317,"text":"這個道路交通罰緩他的分配是他的運用辦法第4條規定罰緩收入僅12%用於道路改善那台灣民眾被罰那麼多但交通整體的改善卻是有限的那我們看到那次長你這邊認為目前的科技執法有沒有過度集中在開發"},{"start":13789.595,"end":13812.003,"text":"目前這些所謂科技執法或者是測速照相其實都是因為我們道路做完之後那這個警察單位他看這個地方發生的非常多的這個這樣的事件事故就是車禍的這樣的情況所以希望能夠用這樣的這個測速照相來提醒"},{"start":13812.663,"end":13831.689,"text":"有百分之十二是作為交通執法還有交通安全的改善經費嗎那有六個點是道路交通違規的案件他的取發處理費用然後還有交通執法的設備器材費用還有執法的電腦化費用那還有教育訓練包括執法的安全宣導費用你認為這個比例應該要調整嗎"},{"start":13836.748,"end":13852.528,"text":"跟委員報告那現在這個比例大概是在我們規定的那個法規裡面規定的那是在那個法案分配辦法裡面規定的那其實這個只是一個地板那我們是希望我們其實也一直在宣導地方政府他們能夠"},{"start":13853.589,"end":13879.808,"text":"多一點經費能夠運用在那個交通安全改善的部分而不是在不是只是說專注於這樣投入那個測速照相器類似這樣子的一個設備所以這個部分我們會持續來跟地方政府來溝通或者是希望他們能夠盡量用在請交通部跟地方政府溝通看是不是要調整這個比例然後或是因為你們有回應其他的委員說你們有公告嗎"},{"start":13881.198,"end":13895.827,"text":"什麼時候公告的應該是應該說之前之前有預告過那可是有預告過對那之前已經是去年12月了所以那希望再再請交通部經紀與地方政府來做溝通好謝謝好謝謝接下來再請謝依鳳委員質詢"},{"start":13915.458,"end":13920.519,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我想要請我們交通部的伍次長伍次長請"},{"start":13928.291,"end":13957.221,"text":"吳次長你好其實你知道說現在我們政府跟民間都大力的在推動AI的相關發展那當然會應用到就是行車的這個部分那在經濟部已經發就是說也強力在推動就是ADAS智慧駕駛輔助系統但是我想要了解的是當我們有這樣的技術有這樣的系統以後多少"},{"start":13958.666,"end":13978.946,"text":"多久可以上路交通部這裡要怎麼樣協助尤其是我們現在在推廣的是減碳希望說大家能夠用公共運輸現在公共運輸我也看了車車中心裡面的就是無人"},{"start":13980.668,"end":13997.127,"text":"電巴的這樣子的一個就是模擬然後試行那我發現說這對於能不能夠讓未來我們的公共運輸能夠更普及到"},{"start":13999.644,"end":14014.929,"text":"鄉鎮市啊就是這些偏鄉的地區啊尤其是你知道現在沒有人力嘛是不是我們的那個Bus現在都沒有人力就是那些Bus都沒有人力啊那未來如果我們想要推廣公共運輸的時候"},{"start":14016.209,"end":14031.997,"text":"那這樣子的一個例如這樣子一個自駕或半自駕的一個系統是不是能夠減少我們的人力那什麼時間可以推動推動時程如何你們交通部是怎麼樣規劃的"},{"start":14033.18,"end":14054.916,"text":"是確實剛委員提到了剛講AI的部分其實可以減少一些人力上的使用那剛講的那些我們的一些是不是ADA什麼那些是不是可以請局長來說明一下這個部分我跟委員跟委員報告一下這個部分大概分成兩個部分第一個部分講這一個先進這一個相關智慧系統就是ADAS的部分"},{"start":14055.376,"end":14082.738,"text":"那目前只要這個成熟可以商用的部分的話都已經導進來譬如說像現行我們在補助各地方政府汰換這個電動公車的部分上面針對有配備這個ADAS的一個部分的話我們都有加碼做一個補助那這個部分的這個ADAS用這樣子的補助我說了用這樣補助有沒有辦法加速我們公共運輸的推動的普及率"},{"start":14083.539,"end":14104.719,"text":"因為就我看到目前而言即便是在我們彰化縣內要使用這樣子的公共運輸都有一點點麻煩因為班次不夠多我認為只有在六都的這個公共運輸才有比較好的這個普及率可是"},{"start":14105.659,"end":14133.886,"text":"當我們要做檢探的時候這個普及率應該要能夠遍及到就是其他的縣市嘛非六都以外的縣市去嘛那我想要知道的是第一個你導入這樣子的就是說自駕或半自駕的電動巴士有沒有辦法就是說延緩我們現在現行法規裡面的像那個駕駛的服務連線有沒有辦法延後"},{"start":14134.741,"end":14156.047,"text":"跟委員報告一下你們有沒有相關規劃第一個部分跟委員報告那個單品的ADAS的部分那個沒有辦法對於這一個就是減少人力那個沒幫助那個是增加這個人力駕駛這個行車安全那第二塊部分的話就是剛剛委員所提到那如果說可以走到這個自動駕駛那個部分的話那確實這個可以減少這個人力的部分但是"},{"start":14156.767,"end":14184.232,"text":"公車自動駕駛這一塊基本上還沒有到達可以商用落地的部分包括委員剛剛所提到這個ARTCE他們在做測試的部分那目前大概以前是從系統商開發然後進沙盒那現在轉變我跟你講師長我看到你回答我們次長沒有回答我就知道了代表你們部內根本沒有密集的討論相關的事情是不是有啦"},{"start":14185.032,"end":14212.025,"text":"都沒有密集的討論嘛不然次長怎麼會不了解那這樣子AI在智慧駕駛的推動上面以及我們怎麼樣子能夠讓公共運輸公共運輸是減碳的工具嘛那你如果沒有能夠就是說你們沒有讓它落地然後沒有落地的情況下我今天問你這個問題你們都沒有規劃根本都還沒開始想對不對"},{"start":14212.805,"end":14234.361,"text":"不是跟委員報告不是沒有討論這部分就是真的有討論過只是現在的技術可能還沒有辦法到達說我們可以真的是可以到去開放到可以去那個所謂的那就是因為落地我現在第二個重點是不是落地的時間就是說你們從技術開發到落地的時間你們能不能縮短"},{"start":14235.362,"end":14251.953,"text":"你們怎麼樣子讓它可以安全的上路然後又縮短嘛那這樣子才能夠減短就是說可以提高了我們這種半字架因為半字架還是需要就是有價值在上面嘛"},{"start":14252.473,"end":14274.26,"text":"但是如果讓駕駛的工作負擔不是這麼重的情況下有沒有辦法延緩駕駛的開車的年限那這樣子能夠讓我們目前運輸駕駛缺工的這個問題可以減緩啊是不是所以這個東西是一連串的嘛你們有沒有推動"},{"start":14275.273,"end":14292.88,"text":"所以委員講的沒有錯剛提到自駕是可以確實是可以節省人力半自駕我現在還沒講到半自駕一樣意思就剛講人力對他來講壓力比較小那這部分剛講的技術上目前還沒有達到說可以開放我想這部分後續什麼時候可以開放"},{"start":14295.444,"end":14308.641,"text":"各位報告你們的那個時程是怎麼樣各位報告這個辦支架或支架這個部分技術都還在這個持續進展當中那這個部分技術的開發最主要就是有信息部這邊來做一個處理"},{"start":14310.543,"end":14333.766,"text":"那目前我們也在配合我在說這些技術怎麼樣落地那怎麼樣子安全的讓大家使用怎麼樣子能夠讓公共運輸缺工的問題可以減少我認為這個是交通部必須要去認真的考量這也涉及到跨部會的這樣子的事務我認為這如果可以讓"},{"start":14334.867,"end":14347.881,"text":"就是說提高我們公共運輸的普及力以及能夠讓我們駕駛的這個缺工的問題減緩的話那交通部回去研商好不好好謝謝好請回謝謝"},{"start":14355.646,"end":14377.262,"text":"好 接下來鄭天才委員 鄭天才委員 鄭天才委員不在張宏祿委員 張宏祿委員 張宏祿委員不在王美惠委員 王美惠委員 王美惠委員不在林建啟委員 林建啟委員 林建啟委員不在王宏威委員 王宏威委員 王宏威委員不在蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員不在楊瓊瑛委員 楊瓊瑛委員 楊瓊瑛委員不在"},{"start":14381.785,"end":14391.71,"text":"羅明財委員 羅明財委員 羅明財委員不在武麗華委員 武麗華委員 武麗華委員不在徐欣穎委員 徐欣穎委員 徐欣穎委員不在"},{"start":14393.632,"end":14417.923,"text":"登記質詢委員均已發言完畢做以下決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員吳麗華所提書面質詢列入記錄並且刊登公報三委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或是未及答覆部分請交通部及相關機關盡速以書面答覆針對本日會議做以下決議討論事項第一到第三個案"},{"start":14418.484,"end":14423.092,"text":"均另定期繼續審查本日會議結束我們現在散會 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}