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謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:46:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:46:32+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:46:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:46:37+08:00","text":"有請莊部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:46:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:46:42.666667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:46:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:46:45.500000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:46:45.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:47:16.714286+08:00","text":"討論一下新的娛樂稅法在522的時候正式上路，當初我們硬生生把一些不想要的，只留了兩個，其他大部分都想要把它砍掉，結果財政部卻用第三條公告的方式讓它死灰復燃，完全無視於立法院當初財委會的精神，最終20項當中濃縮成9項，然後只有砍掉水舞跟遊樂設施而已。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:47:17.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:47:27.333333+08:00","text":"你去看看導致荒謬的現象，第一個，我們去聽唱歌不用錢，自己唱歌卻要娛樂稅。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:47:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:47:37.923077+08:00","text":"還有在電影院看電影不用稅，可是在MTV裡頭看電影卻要稅，這非常奇怪！","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:47:38.307692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:47:55.777778+08:00","text":"更何況你去看，不論是密室逃脫還有射擊場，包括高爾夫球練習場，高爾夫球我們之所以留是因為地方有需求，不是禁止這個運動，把這個運動當成奢侈稅。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:47:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:47:57.687500+08:00","text":"部長，你有沒有聽我在講？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:47:57.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:47:58.812500+08:00","text":"你還一直在講。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:47:59.782609+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:48:23.857143+08:00","text":"以這9項當中，我講白一點，只有第8項小鋼珠、賓果機、電子遊藝場這種才有娛樂稅的空間，也就是寓禁於徵的意義在這邊，其他的都不應該藉由各種公告的方式，凌駕於立法院財委會決議之上。","quality":0.779},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:48:24.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:48:33.772727+08:00","text":"然後你去看，我們好不容易對社會說我們做娛樂稅的改革，結果哪有改到？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:48:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:48:53.666667+08:00","text":"就只有改到我們當初講到的電影跟職業表演而已，剩下的部分只有高爾夫球占娛樂稅28%，而72%的娛樂稅居然是透過財政部的公告，擴大解釋要徵收，這根本欺騙社會嘛！","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:48:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:48:57.764706+08:00","text":"財政部用行政權凌駕於立法權，對不對？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:48:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:06.764706+08:00","text":"像這一種，如果小鋼珠、電子遊藝場，我就比較沒有意見，可是其他的你還是照樣課稅，沒道理啊！","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:09.294118+08:00","text":"部長，你到底有沒有清楚這種狀況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:11.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:12.666667+08:00","text":"欺騙國會、欺騙社會啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:12.857143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:13.809524+08:00","text":"委員，我沒有欺騙社會……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:14.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:15.777778+08:00","text":"什麼沒有欺騙社會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:22.750000+08:00","text":"娛樂稅法第二條第一項裡面有分三款，其他經財政部公告的娛樂場所，但是在第三……","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:36.777778+08:00","text":"我知道，但是我們當初最重要的意義，是把舞廳留下來課稅，高爾夫球是因為地方上的需求，第三款的部分讓你公告，你公告的權力那麼大？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:37.235294+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:44.666667+08:00","text":"不應該符合的應該把它拿掉才對，結果你保留了72%的稅源。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:46.565217+08:00","text":"公告的在第二條第三……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:46.739130+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:56.750000+08:00","text":"以前說娛樂稅是因為地方的稅，所以地方很困擾，當初我們在委員會討論就是這樣子，地方現在多了四千多億，哪會有稅源的問題？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:59.812500+08:00","text":"這個稅源的理由已經不存在了嘛！部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:01.714286+08:00","text":"委員，我能說明嗎？說啊！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:21.789474+08:00","text":"在第二條第三項要課徵，第一項第三款有提到財政部可以去公告，但是在同條文裡面的第三項也說，前面各款地方政府也可以授權停徵，因此第五條在做公告……","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:23.800000+08:00","text":"丟給地方政府，地方政府怎麼可能會停徵？","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:24.695652+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:32.615385+08:00","text":"我們上次在討論娛樂稅的時候，把項目都拿掉，但是保留第三款，第三款由財政部來公告這個項目，這項目我們之前……","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:33.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:33.846154+08:00","text":"你擴權啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:35.846154+08:00","text":"行政權凌駕在立法權之上啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:39+08:00","text":"也是請各地方政府提出意見以後，我們彙整……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:42.181818+08:00","text":"地方政府當然都不願意嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:42.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:52.857143+08:00","text":"我們上次最重要的理由，地方已經沒有需要稅源的問題，因為地方的財政能力已經強化很多，所以才會檢討娛樂稅，娛樂稅以前就不存在這個理由了嘛！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:01.250000+08:00","text":"是，所以當時第三款還是保留著給地方政府有一個授權的範圍，至於它的內容是經過……","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:01.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:06.750000+08:00","text":"但是它是經過財政部整理公告的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:09+08:00","text":"是，經過財政部整理公告……對啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:09+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:10+08:00","text":"所以那些不合理嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:09.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:12.800000+08:00","text":"而且整理公告也是根據各地方政府所建議的、他們提議的。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:16.764706+08:00","text":"你們問地方政府，地方政府誰要把稅源砍掉？有啊！","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:21.791667+08:00","text":"我們在財政委員會最主要的部分就只有保留兩項而已嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:25.826087+08:00","text":"對啊，我想這個公告內容也不是不能檢討，也可以適時的演進，也可以適時的滾動檢討，都可以。","quality":0.447},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:26.214286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:31.785714+08:00","text":"當然要檢討，我就是希望你檢討，真的要檢討！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:32.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:35.555556+08:00","text":"部長，這真的是欺騙社會、欺騙國會啊！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:35.555556+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:36.555556+08:00","text":"不會，我們絕對不敢欺騙社會，也不敢欺騙國會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:42.758621+08:00","text":"這9項當中我認為唯一有道理的，就只有第8項電子遊樂場而已啦！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:53.400000+08:00","text":"連高爾夫球練習場，高爾夫球之所以我們要留下來課稅，是因為你說鄉的部分的財政考量，我們才放行，不是嗎？","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:53.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:58.600000+08:00","text":"現在打高爾夫球都超過100萬人，只是練習場而已，你也在課。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:06.800000+08:00","text":"部長，你既然已經說要回去檢討，你就好好檢討一下，一個月給本席一個報告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:08.888889+08:00","text":"我們這個項目可以再跟各地方政府一起考量。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:09.923077+08:00","text":"一個月給本席一個報告可以吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:10.833333+08:00","text":"好，可以，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:18.782609+08:00","text":"另外一個部分，部長，我一樣要來檢討一件事情，上次你有答應本席統一發票要重新檢討，也是要檢討！","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:26.181818+08:00","text":"也就是大獎下修，小獎上修，你答應的很阿莎力喔！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:26.454545+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:37.571429+08:00","text":"部長，結果我們去問你們的賦稅署，賦稅署說沒有時程規劃，當然現在賦稅署是新的署長，這筆帳不應該算在他身上啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:37.714286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:39.900000+08:00","text":"不過他也要去面對，說沒有時程。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:40.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:49.555556+08:00","text":"好，你去看，你們雲端發票一下子調成500塊，就有20到40萬組，差那麼多！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:51.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:57.625000+08:00","text":"紙本發票的比例還高達三成三，那三成三的人就不用調嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:06.800000+08:00","text":"今天你可以馬上把200元改成500元，20萬組變40萬組，統一發票小獎上修為什麼會遙遙無期？","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:07.882353+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:11.705882+08:00","text":"大獎下修的部分，問也沒有時間表。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:20.800000+08:00","text":"部長，你要不要有一個具體的時間回答本席，回答對統一發票殷殷期待的民眾啊？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:22.214286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:30.800000+08:00","text":"對於委員的建議，我們都很重視，目前已經在修正相關的辦法，我們會儘快提出相關的修正。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:32.800000+08:00","text":"可以給本席一個時間嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:37.600000+08:00","text":"上次說沒有時間表，這是兩個多月的事情了！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:38.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:39.800000+08:00","text":"是不是再給我們三個月？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:40.666667+08:00","text":"兩個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:41.750000+08:00","text":"兩個月，好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:45.800000+08:00","text":"不要兩個月再兩個月喔！不會。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:46.214286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:11.800000+08:00","text":"接下來還有一個很重要的事情，部長，現在AI時代來臨，民間的朋友跟我講，公股銀行在上次的數位轉型當中，落後民間銀行大概15年，國營銀行落後民間銀行大概20年，前面來不及追，後面又有第二波數位轉型，AI又來了！","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:37.666667+08:00","text":"你去看大部分客戶的體驗感受面，在網路銀行、行動銀行的功能介面上都大輸民營銀行，民營銀行推出了AI服務、AI行銷、智慧助理，公股銀行只會傳LINE；民營金融銀行已經建立完整的資料庫，可以提供即時數據跟決策，運用大數據整合行銷，公股銀行還不曉得在做什麼。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:38.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:56.666667+08:00","text":"唯一公股銀行現在比較強的是我們財經單位給予授權的區塊鏈金融服務，讓央行開辦黃金RWA業務，還有未來穩定幣，金管會授權給銀行的部分比較有空間，其他的我看很難。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:00.500000+08:00","text":"部長，你有沒有決心？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:06.727273+08:00","text":"前面輸了，後面有沒有可能迎頭趕上，兩步做一步達成？部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:17.785714+08:00","text":"委員的督促，公股銀行要發展數位，跟時代的趨勢接軌上，一直是我們督促公股行庫在做的事。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:22.833333+08:00","text":"對，你們督促公股行在做的，我很想要知道你要怎麼督促。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:33.800000+08:00","text":"第一個目標、第二個人力、第三個預算、第四個時程、第五個研考，有沒有可能列出來？可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:34.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:34.571429+08:00","text":"什麼時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:35.421053+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:40.833333+08:00","text":"這個部分，我們已經有相關的計畫在推動，我們可以把報告提送給委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:43.250000+08:00","text":"好，會後本席拜讀。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:44.750000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:01.500000+08:00","text":"還有最後一個，剛剛我講國營銀行更嚴重，不只財政部所屬，跟交通部所屬、經濟部所屬很不一樣，我們擁有國營的比例，現在是所有部會當中最多的，三家國營銀行、一家臺酒。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:35.833333+08:00","text":"現階段第一、變成是人力銀行的跳板，人力訓練完以後就跑去民間，擁有公股銀行或公家單位的資歷；第二、交通部、經濟部還是屬於偏獨占，我們這些都是屬於開放型的競爭，所以相對會更加弱勢，以致於我們在一些市場的占有率越來越低，然後人員流失得越來越嚴重。","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:45.571429+08:00","text":"本席直接建議，有沒有可能把國營銀行比照目前的公股銀行四金二銀，薪酬、進用、獎勵及行銷彈性處理？","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:00.777778+08:00","text":"還有菸酒公司就比照中鋼、台肥等，由官股主導的公司一樣，讓他有彈性經營的模式，這兩個可能性有沒有？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:07.789474+08:00","text":"委員很清楚，您剛剛講的銀行是一個開放競爭的自由市場……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:08.500000+08:00","text":"對，臺酒也是。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:08.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:23.888889+08:00","text":"尤其是臺、土，因為輸銀有政策上一些不同的工作，臺、土當然面臨這樣的一個情境，但是它就是國營，必須受國營事業管理法的規範，因此薪資也會回到人總，這個也是一直在講的。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:34.777778+08:00","text":"我們也希望，我們其實真的很期待它可以有不一樣的薪資待遇，然後我們也會持續斟酌這方面的建議。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:42.733333+08:00","text":"對，我就是說你至少在制度上做一個比較……有沒有哪些鬆綁的可能性，可以比照四金二銀的這種可能性嘛！是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:45.800000+08:00","text":"你一直卡死原來的辦法，這不是辦法……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:45.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:46.800000+08:00","text":"我沒有卡死啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:48.769231+08:00","text":"有沒有可能調整或突破的空間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:48.769231+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:49.769231+08:00","text":"本席要就教於您的部分是這樣子嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:00.777778+08:00","text":"我們當然希望能夠吸引新血，而且對他們的晉升能夠突破既有的一些所謂論資排輩等等，對優秀人才要能夠留，要吸引人才。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:01.800000+08:00","text":"你都知道啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:02.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:03.800000+08:00","text":"為什麼都沒有突破呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:04.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:04.875000+08:00","text":"你們要不要想一想？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:06.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:08.833333+08:00","text":"還是要寫一份報告給本席，你要怎麼突破？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:10.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:15+08:00","text":"包括菸酒公司，兩邊一個是生產單位，一個是服務單位，可不可以？是。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:15+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:16.100000+08:00","text":"生產單位……","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:16.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:16.900000+08:00","text":"你們想一個辦法好不好？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:19.900000+08:00","text":"這個問題不大啦，我給三個月啦，好不好？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:20.750000+08:00","text":"好，三個月。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:21.666667+08:00","text":"具體喔，具體喔！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:22.750000+08:00","text":"好，三個月提報告。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:23.333333+08:00","text":"具體，好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"郭委員國文","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:26.666667+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:27.166667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:30.880952+08:00","text":"好，我們結束郭國文委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:31.180952+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:33.752381+08:00","text":"接下來請賴惠員委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":210,"blocks":[["郭委員國文：（9時46分）謝謝主席。有請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["郭委員國文：部長好。討論一下新的娛樂稅法在522的時候正式上路，當初我們硬生生把一些不想要的，只留了兩個，其他大部分都想要把它砍掉，結果財政部卻用第三條公告的方式讓它死灰復燃，完全無視於立法院當初財委會的精神，最終20項當中濃縮成9項，然後只有砍掉水舞跟遊樂設施而已。","你去看看導致荒謬的現象，第一個，我們去聽唱歌不用錢，自己唱歌卻要娛樂稅。還有在電影院看電影不用稅，可是在MTV裡頭看電影卻要稅，這非常奇怪！更何況你去看，不論是密室逃脫還有射擊場，包括高爾夫球練習場，高爾夫球我們之所以留是因為地方有需求，不是禁止這個運動，把這個運動當成奢侈稅。","部長，你有沒有聽我在講？你還一直在講。以這9項當中，我講白一點，只有第8項小鋼珠、賓果機、電子遊藝場這種才有娛樂稅的空間，也就是寓禁於徵的意義在這邊，其他的都不應該藉由各種公告的方式，凌駕於立法院財委會決議之上。然後你去看，我們好不容易對社會說我們做娛樂稅的改革，結果哪有改到？就只有改到我們當初講到的電影跟職業表演而已，剩下的部分只有高爾夫球占娛樂稅28%，而72%的娛樂稅居然是透過財政部的公告，擴大解釋要徵收，這根本欺騙社會嘛！財政部用行政權凌駕於立法權，對不對？像這一種，如果小鋼珠、電子遊藝場，我就比較沒有意見，可是其他的你還是照樣課稅，沒道理啊！部長，你到底有沒有清楚這種狀況？欺騙國會、欺騙社會啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，我沒有欺騙社會……"],["郭委員國文：什麼沒有欺騙社會？"],["莊部長翠雲：娛樂稅法第二條第一項裡面有分三款，其他經財政部公告的娛樂場所，但是在第三……"],["郭委員國文：我知道，但是我們當初最重要的意義，是把舞廳留下來課稅，高爾夫球是因為地方上的需求，第三款的部分讓你公告，你公告的權力那麼大？不應該符合的應該把它拿掉才對，結果你保留了72%的稅源。"],["莊部長翠雲：公告的在第二條第三……"],["郭委員國文：以前說娛樂稅是因為地方的稅，所以地方很困擾，當初我們在委員會討論就是這樣子，地方現在多了四千多億，哪會有稅源的問題？這個稅源的理由已經不存在了嘛！部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，我能說明嗎？"],["郭委員國文：說啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：在第二條第三項要課徵，第一項第三款有提到財政部可以去公告，但是在同條文裡面的第三項也說，前面各款地方政府也可以授權停徵，因此第五條在做公告……"],["郭委員國文：丟給地方政府，地方政府怎麼可能會停徵？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們上次在討論娛樂稅的時候，把項目都拿掉，但是保留第三款，第三款由財政部來公告這個項目，這項目我們之前……"],["郭委員國文：你擴權啊！行政權凌駕在立法權之上啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：也是請各地方政府提出意見以後，我們彙整……"],["郭委員國文：地方政府當然都不願意嘛！我們上次最重要的理由，地方已經沒有需要稅源的問題，因為地方的財政能力已經強化很多，所以才會檢討娛樂稅，娛樂稅以前就不存在這個理由了嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：是，所以當時第三款還是保留著給地方政府有一個授權的範圍，至於它的內容是經過……"],["郭委員國文：但是它是經過財政部整理公告的啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：是，經過財政部整理公告……"],["郭委員國文：對啊！所以那些不合理嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：而且整理公告也是根據各地方政府所建議的、他們提議的。"],["郭委員國文：你們問地方政府，地方政府誰要把稅源砍掉？"],["莊部長翠雲：有啊！"],["郭委員國文：我們在財政委員會最主要的部分就只有保留兩項而已嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對啊，我想這個公告內容也不是不能檢討，也可以適時的演進，也可以適時的滾動檢討，都可以。"],["郭委員國文：當然要檢討，我就是希望你檢討，真的要檢討！部長，這真的是欺騙社會、欺騙國會啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：不會，我們絕對不敢欺騙社會，也不敢欺騙國會。"],["郭委員國文：這9項當中我認為唯一有道理的，就只有第8項電子遊樂場而已啦！連高爾夫球練習場，高爾夫球之所以我們要留下來課稅，是因為你說鄉的部分的財政考量，我們才放行，不是嗎？現在打高爾夫球都超過100萬人，只是練習場而已，你也在課。部長，你既然已經說要回去檢討，你就好好檢討一下，一個月給本席一個報告。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們這個項目可以再跟各地方政府一起考量。"],["郭委員國文：一個月給本席一個報告可以吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，可以，謝謝。"],["郭委員國文：另外一個部分，部長，我一樣要來檢討一件事情，上次你有答應本席統一發票要重新檢討，也是要檢討！也就是大獎下修，小獎上修，你答應的很阿莎力喔！部長，結果我們去問你們的賦稅署，賦稅署說沒有時程規劃，當然現在賦稅署是新的署長，這筆帳不應該算在他身上啦！不過他也要去面對，說沒有時程。好，你去看，你們雲端發票一下子調成500塊，就有20到40萬組，差那麼多！紙本發票的比例還高達三成三，那三成三的人就不用調嗎？今天你可以馬上把200元改成500元，20萬組變40萬組，統一發票小獎上修為什麼會遙遙無期？大獎下修的部分，問也沒有時間表。部長，你要不要有一個具體的時間回答本席，回答對統一發票殷殷期待的民眾啊？"],["莊部長翠雲：對於委員的建議，我們都很重視，目前已經在修正相關的辦法，我們會儘快提出相關的修正。"],["郭委員國文：可以給本席一個時間嗎？上次說沒有時間表，這是兩個多月的事情了！"],["莊部長翠雲：是不是再給我們三個月？"],["郭委員國文：兩個月？"],["莊部長翠雲：兩個月，好。"],["郭委員國文：不要兩個月再兩個月喔！"],["莊部長翠雲：不會。"],["郭委員國文：接下來還有一個很重要的事情，部長，現在AI時代來臨，民間的朋友跟我講，公股銀行在上次的數位轉型當中，落後民間銀行大概15年，國營銀行落後民間銀行大概20年，前面來不及追，後面又有第二波數位轉型，AI又來了！你去看大部分客戶的體驗感受面，在網路銀行、行動銀行的功能介面上都大輸民營銀行，民營銀行推出了AI服務、AI行銷、智慧助理，公股銀行只會傳LINE；民營金融銀行已經建立完整的資料庫，可以提供即時數據跟決策，運用大數據整合行銷，公股銀行還不曉得在做什麼。唯一公股銀行現在比較強的是我們財經單位給予授權的區塊鏈金融服務，讓央行開辦黃金RWA業務，還有未來穩定幣，金管會授權給銀行的部分比較有空間，其他的我看很難。部長，你有沒有決心？前面輸了，後面有沒有可能迎頭趕上，兩步做一步達成？部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員的督促，公股銀行要發展數位，跟時代的趨勢接軌上，一直是我們督促公股行庫在做的事。"],["郭委員國文：對，你們督促公股行在做的，我很想要知道你要怎麼督促。第一個目標、第二個人力、第三個預算、第四個時程、第五個研考，有沒有可能列出來？"],["莊部長翠雲：可以。"],["郭委員國文：什麼時候？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分，我們已經有相關的計畫在推動，我們可以把報告提送給委員。"],["郭委員國文：好，會後本席拜讀。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["郭委員國文：還有最後一個，剛剛我講國營銀行更嚴重，不只財政部所屬，跟交通部所屬、經濟部所屬很不一樣，我們擁有國營的比例，現在是所有部會當中最多的，三家國營銀行、一家臺酒。現階段第一、變成是人力銀行的跳板，人力訓練完以後就跑去民間，擁有公股銀行或公家單位的資歷；第二、交通部、經濟部還是屬於偏獨占，我們這些都是屬於開放型的競爭，所以相對會更加弱勢，以致於我們在一些市場的占有率越來越低，然後人員流失得越來越嚴重。本席直接建議，有沒有可能把國營銀行比照目前的公股銀行四金二銀，薪酬、進用、獎勵及行銷彈性處理？還有菸酒公司就比照中鋼、台肥等，由官股主導的公司一樣，讓他有彈性經營的模式，這兩個可能性有沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員很清楚，您剛剛講的銀行是一個開放競爭的自由市場……"],["郭委員國文：對，臺酒也是。"],["莊部長翠雲：尤其是臺、土，因為輸銀有政策上一些不同的工作，臺、土當然面臨這樣的一個情境，但是它就是國營，必須受國營事業管理法的規範，因此薪資也會回到人總，這個也是一直在講的。我們也希望，我們其實真的很期待它可以有不一樣的薪資待遇，然後我們也會持續斟酌這方面的建議。"],["郭委員國文：對，我就是說你至少在制度上做一個比較……有沒有哪些鬆綁的可能性，可以比照四金二銀的這種可能性嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["郭委員國文：你一直卡死原來的辦法，這不是辦法……"],["莊部長翠雲：我沒有卡死啊！"],["郭委員國文：有沒有可能調整或突破的空間？本席要就教於您的部分是這樣子嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：我們當然希望能夠吸引新血，而且對他們的晉升能夠突破既有的一些所謂論資排輩等等，對優秀人才要能夠留，要吸引人才。"],["郭委員國文：你都知道啊！為什麼都沒有突破呢？你們要不要想一想？還是要寫一份報告給本席，你要怎麼突破？包括菸酒公司，兩邊一個是生產單位，一個是服務單位，可不可以？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。生產單位……"],["郭委員國文：你們想一個辦法好不好？這個問題不大啦，我給三個月啦，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，三個月。"],["郭委員國文：具體喔，具體喔！"],["主席：好，三個月提報告。"],["莊部長翠雲：具體，好。"],["郭委員國文：好，謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝。"],["主席：好，我們結束郭國文委員的質詢。","接下來請賴惠員委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":254,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-24","speakers":["李彥秀","賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","林岱樺","劉書彬","李坤城","林思銘","顏寬恒","王世堅","許忠信","陳玉珍","羅明才","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2026-07-29"],"gazette_id":"1156801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查本院委員王世堅等17人、委員呂玉玲等16人、委員葉元之等17人、委員黃健豪等18人、委員\n黃健豪等19人、委員賴士葆等18人、委員李彥秀等20人分別擬具「海關進口稅則部分稅則修正草\n案」等7案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156801_00012"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}