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謝謝主席"},{"start":12.68,"end":16,"text":"我們請內政部的羅副長還有陸委會邱主委"},{"start":23.72,"end":26.32,"text":"我先請教一下邱主委好了"},{"start":26.32,"end":28.32,"text":"不好意思 董事長不好意思"},{"start":28.32,"end":29.32,"text":"邱主委好"},{"start":29.32,"end":31.32,"text":"邱主委的部分我就只請問"},{"start":31.32,"end":35.32,"text":"因為剛剛我很認真在聽這個我們學委員的質詢"},{"start":35.32,"end":38.32,"text":"真的學習很快 真的學問很好"},{"start":38.32,"end":42.32,"text":"但是我覺得是這樣子 我聽了以後有個感想是"},{"start":42.32,"end":46.32,"text":"我過去一直在主張的其實就是我們的行政部門 政府機關"},{"start":46.32,"end":51.32,"text":"其實對人民的宣傳還有這個對人民的這個訊息的傳達"},{"start":51.32,"end":54.32,"text":"要能夠簡潔 甚至有利"},{"start":54.32,"end":57.32,"text":"那比如說尤其是對於這種標語式的這種"},{"start":57.32,"end":60.32,"text":"這種剛要式能夠直接讓大家知道"},{"start":60.32,"end":62.32,"text":"這個真的要非常簡潔清楚"},{"start":62.32,"end":65.32,"text":"比如說剛剛我聽到的質詢有說到一句話叫做"},{"start":65.32,"end":68.32,"text":"現在的狀況是陸客不來"},{"start":68.32,"end":70.32,"text":"我們不去 私聯不查"},{"start":70.32,"end":72.32,"text":"這三句話聽起來很可怕"},{"start":72.32,"end":74.32,"text":"可是這三句話跟我認知的事實完全不一樣"},{"start":74.32,"end":77.32,"text":"主任你能不能用同樣三句話"},{"start":77.32,"end":80.32,"text":"或者是同樣簡單一句話告訴我們"},{"start":80.32,"end":81.32,"text":"現在的狀況到底是什麼"},{"start":81.32,"end":85.32,"text":"現在台灣真的是陸客不來我們不去 私聯不查嗎"},{"start":85.32,"end":87.32,"text":"這太嚴重了吧 這是事實嗎"},{"start":87.32,"end":89.32,"text":"這是事實嗎"},{"start":89.32,"end":92.32,"text":"當然不是 謝謝委員的指導"},{"start":92.32,"end":95.32,"text":"當然不是事實 這三句都不是啊"},{"start":95.32,"end":99.32,"text":"陸客不來是因為對方不給他們來"},{"start":99.32,"end":102.32,"text":"我們不去 有嗎 我們沒有不去啊"},{"start":102.32,"end":105.32,"text":"我們去年去中國旅遊的人其實相當的多"},{"start":105.32,"end":107.32,"text":"私聯不查有嗎 沒有"},{"start":107.32,"end":109.32,"text":"現在不是數字上列的清清楚楚"},{"start":109.32,"end":112.32,"text":"查這麼多 但能不能查到這才是問題嘛"},{"start":112.32,"end":115.32,"text":"能不能救回來這更是個問題嘛"},{"start":115.32,"end":118.32,"text":"所以這三句話就是人民想聽的三句話"},{"start":118.32,"end":122.32,"text":"這三句話應該要大大的明白這不是事實"},{"start":122.32,"end":125.32,"text":"陸客很想來台灣"},{"start":125.32,"end":126.32,"text":"對啊"},{"start":126.32,"end":131.32,"text":"陸客不能來台灣是因為他們的政府不發給他證件"},{"start":131.32,"end":134.32,"text":"他們出境旅遊都是要政府許可"},{"start":134.32,"end":135.32,"text":"是啊"},{"start":135.32,"end":137.32,"text":"他們向我們台灣人民自由 全世界"},{"start":137.32,"end":139.32,"text":"我們歡迎陸客"},{"start":139.32,"end":142.32,"text":"仍然是受到嚴格的他們境外的管制"},{"start":142.32,"end":143.32,"text":"出境的管制"},{"start":143.32,"end":146.32,"text":"我們不能去中國大陸嗎 我們不能去中國"},{"start":146.32,"end":149.32,"text":"我們其實目前不是 我們是"},{"start":149.32,"end":151.32,"text":"相信才能夠分享啊"},{"start":151.32,"end":153.32,"text":"剛剛分享去那邊玩回來的照片啊"},{"start":153.32,"end":156.32,"text":"對啊 然後有不查嗎"},{"start":156.32,"end":158.32,"text":"你現在不是整份報告都在寫你查不查嗎"},{"start":158.32,"end":161.32,"text":"我們重點都在幫助人民"},{"start":161.32,"end":163.32,"text":"要去查他的下落在哪裡"},{"start":163.32,"end":167.32,"text":"每一個報案都是帶給每個家庭籌雲產物"},{"start":167.32,"end":169.32,"text":"所以我們要關懷協助他"},{"start":169.32,"end":170.32,"text":"等於是我們"},{"start":170.32,"end":171.32,"text":"我們不斷查"},{"start":171.32,"end":172.32,"text":"對一個聯合關懷"},{"start":172.32,"end":174.32,"text":"而且非常盡力的協助"},{"start":174.32,"end":177.32,"text":"但問題是查了能不能夠查到"},{"start":177.32,"end":178.32,"text":"能不能夠救回來"},{"start":178.32,"end":181.32,"text":"這個真的就是我們要大力努力的部分"},{"start":181.32,"end":184.32,"text":"所以主委我這個部分實在是非常強烈的要求"},{"start":184.32,"end":186.32,"text":"我們在回答問題"},{"start":186.32,"end":188.32,"text":"我們在傳遞資訊"},{"start":188.32,"end":189.32,"text":"在傳達政府作為的時候"},{"start":189.32,"end":192.32,"text":"簡潔有力清楚明白這樣可以嗎"},{"start":192.32,"end":193.32,"text":"謝謝謝謝指導"},{"start":193.32,"end":195.32,"text":"謝謝主委 謝謝先這樣"},{"start":195.32,"end":198.32,"text":"那我想請劉部長主委先請回"},{"start":198.32,"end":199.32,"text":"好 謝謝您"},{"start":200.32,"end":201.32,"text":"國營好"},{"start":201.32,"end":202.32,"text":"部長好"},{"start":202.32,"end":204.32,"text":"部長那我想跟您同樣請教"},{"start":204.32,"end":206.32,"text":"另外一件這個問題"},{"start":206.32,"end":207.32,"text":"就是我們在地方的時候"},{"start":207.32,"end":210.32,"text":"其實聽到很多鄉親在詢問"},{"start":210.32,"end":212.32,"text":"就是石板明夫這樣一個"},{"start":212.32,"end":214.32,"text":"在台灣具有知名度的人"},{"start":214.32,"end":217.32,"text":"在路上走竟然會被打"},{"start":217.32,"end":219.32,"text":"而且打到受傷"},{"start":219.32,"end":220.32,"text":"嘴角有撕裂傷"},{"start":220.32,"end":222.32,"text":"嘿這是一個什麼樣的狀況"},{"start":222.32,"end":224.32,"text":"部長您可以跟我們說明一下"},{"start":224.32,"end":226.32,"text":"目前內政部就這件傷害案"},{"start":226.32,"end":228.32,"text":"調查的狀況如何嗎"},{"start":228.32,"end":229.32,"text":"為什麼您認為"},{"start":229.32,"end":231.32,"text":"為什麼政府現在調查了一段時間以後"},{"start":231.32,"end":234.32,"text":"認為他不是一件尋常的傷害案"},{"start":234.32,"end":236.32,"text":"甚至有可能是政治案件"},{"start":236.32,"end":237.32,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":237.32,"end":238.32,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":238.32,"end":242.32,"text":"石板明夫是台灣非常有名的這個媒體先進"},{"start":242.32,"end":245.32,"text":"那他在演講結束之後"},{"start":245.32,"end":247.32,"text":"受到一個香港人"},{"start":247.32,"end":249.32,"text":"料性嫌疑犯的毆打"},{"start":249.32,"end":251.32,"text":"那我們認為事情不是很簡單"},{"start":251.32,"end":253.32,"text":"目前這個料性嫌犯"},{"start":253.32,"end":255.32,"text":"在7月7號的時候"},{"start":255.32,"end":258.32,"text":"已經經台中地院裁准羈押禁戒"},{"start":258.32,"end":261.32,"text":"那當然後面有很多不同的政治動機"},{"start":261.32,"end":263.32,"text":"那但是查查了經過"},{"start":263.32,"end":264.32,"text":"我是不是可以請張署長"},{"start":264.32,"end":266.32,"text":"來跟你做一個簡要的說明"},{"start":266.32,"end":267.32,"text":"好那張署長"},{"start":267.32,"end":269.32,"text":"我希望你也是簡簡易開的"},{"start":269.32,"end":271.32,"text":"能夠跟我們分享一下"},{"start":271.32,"end":273.32,"text":"你現在調查的資訊"},{"start":273.32,"end":277.32,"text":"到底是你的這件案件事前事發事後"},{"start":277.32,"end":278.32,"text":"到底有哪些跡象"},{"start":278.32,"end":281.32,"text":"所以讓你覺得這不是一件尋常的傷害案"},{"start":281.32,"end":283.32,"text":"因為傷害案其實確實是常常發生"},{"start":283.32,"end":286.32,"text":"為什麼這件我們特別要挑出來講"},{"start":286.32,"end":287.32,"text":"好謝謝委員"},{"start":287.32,"end":290.32,"text":"那這個案件這個料性嫌犯是現在羈押"},{"start":290.32,"end":291.32,"text":"在偵查當中"},{"start":291.32,"end":293.32,"text":"那我們初步現在看起來"},{"start":293.32,"end":295.32,"text":"這個不是一個單純的傷害案件"},{"start":295.32,"end":300.32,"text":"是一個很標準的一個跨境鎮壓的案件"},{"start":300.32,"end":301.32,"text":"怎麼說"},{"start":301.32,"end":307.32,"text":"這個是一個有組織性的一個性質"},{"start":307.32,"end":310.32,"text":"那我們現在會在對相當溯源"},{"start":310.32,"end":313.32,"text":"或者是甚至在地的協力者"},{"start":313.32,"end":316.32,"text":"在做努力的偵查當中"},{"start":316.32,"end":319.32,"text":"署長這種被巡台的時候"},{"start":319.32,"end":321.32,"text":"其實就是講的最清楚的時候"},{"start":321.32,"end":323.32,"text":"這個據我當然是沒有收到"},{"start":323.32,"end":325.32,"text":"我也沒有跟你們調資料"},{"start":325.32,"end":327.32,"text":"我現在是從新聞上面看的"},{"start":327.32,"end":328.32,"text":"第一這個人的身分"},{"start":328.32,"end":330.32,"text":"他是從境外進來的"},{"start":330.32,"end":331.32,"text":"這個料性男子"},{"start":331.32,"end":333.32,"text":"他說境外進來"},{"start":333.32,"end":335.32,"text":"據查具有香港黑幫身分"},{"start":335.32,"end":337.32,"text":"這是一個跟平常不太一樣的狀況"},{"start":337.32,"end":339.32,"text":"打人的是一個外面來的人"},{"start":339.32,"end":341.32,"text":"而且打人的狀況是什麼樣子"},{"start":341.32,"end":343.32,"text":"是先他叫了你的名字"},{"start":343.32,"end":344.32,"text":"看了你一臉"},{"start":344.32,"end":346.32,"text":"確定是你之後打下去"},{"start":346.32,"end":347.32,"text":"打完以後立刻就走"},{"start":347.32,"end":349.32,"text":"不但是離開案發現場"},{"start":349.32,"end":350.32,"text":"而且回報"},{"start":350.32,"end":351.32,"text":"回報完以後"},{"start":351.32,"end":354.32,"text":"立刻要急著出境"},{"start":354.32,"end":356.32,"text":"從外面進來"},{"start":356.32,"end":357.32,"text":"傷害了我的國人之後"},{"start":357.32,"end":358.32,"text":"我們的國人之後"},{"start":358.32,"end":360.32,"text":"立刻又要出境"},{"start":360.32,"end":363.32,"text":"這三點事前事發"},{"start":363.32,"end":365.32,"text":"事發跟事發要確認你是誰"},{"start":365.32,"end":367.32,"text":"所以顯然是特定案人"},{"start":367.32,"end":368.32,"text":"特定人士"},{"start":368.32,"end":369.32,"text":"要打的是特定人士"},{"start":369.32,"end":371.32,"text":"然後事發是立刻出境"},{"start":371.32,"end":373.32,"text":"事前事發和事後"},{"start":373.32,"end":375.32,"text":"這三個狀態"},{"start":375.32,"end":377.32,"text":"讓我們覺得這不是一件尋常的案件"},{"start":377.32,"end":378.32,"text":"是不是"},{"start":378.32,"end":381.32,"text":"所以跟一般任何的傷害案件都不一樣"},{"start":381.32,"end":383.32,"text":"所以警方要全力追查"},{"start":383.32,"end":384.32,"text":"那也很感謝警方在第一時間"},{"start":384.32,"end":385.32,"text":"在他出境前"},{"start":385.32,"end":387.32,"text":"是已經把他攔下來了"},{"start":387.32,"end":390.32,"text":"好所以我們才會有經過現在的調查"},{"start":390.32,"end":392.32,"text":"我們在媒體上看到這些跡象"},{"start":392.32,"end":394.32,"text":"那署長我現在就想問"},{"start":394.32,"end":395.32,"text":"因為我們現在"},{"start":395.32,"end":398.32,"text":"這個事發的狀況是在7月6號"},{"start":398.32,"end":400.32,"text":"這個案件在7月6號"},{"start":400.32,"end":401.32,"text":"那剛好有7月1號"},{"start":401.32,"end":404.32,"text":"其實中國發布了這個民族團結促進法"},{"start":404.32,"end":405.32,"text":"這樣的狀況"},{"start":405.32,"end":406.32,"text":"裡面其實就提到了"},{"start":406.32,"end":407.32,"text":"這個"},{"start":407.32,"end":408.32,"text":"這個在"},{"start":408.32,"end":409.32,"text":"就是在中國境外"},{"start":409.32,"end":411.32,"text":"我們也要有怎麼樣怎麼樣的一個"},{"start":411.32,"end":413.32,"text":"長臂管轄的狀況"},{"start":413.32,"end":416.32,"text":"任何人都不能夠有這個反對"},{"start":416.32,"end":417.32,"text":"什麼"},{"start":417.32,"end":418.32,"text":"這個分裂民族"},{"start":418.32,"end":421.32,"text":"分裂國土這樣的狀態等等"},{"start":421.32,"end":423.32,"text":"那所以您認為這個案件"},{"start":423.32,"end":424.32,"text":"跨境鎮壓"},{"start":424.32,"end":425.32,"text":"想要達到的目的"},{"start":425.32,"end":428.32,"text":"以及他未來發生的頻率"},{"start":428.32,"end":429.32,"text":"你們有想像嗎"},{"start":429.32,"end":430.32,"text":"你們有判斷嗎"},{"start":430.32,"end":431.32,"text":"那當然有"},{"start":431.32,"end":432.32,"text":"那我想這個是"},{"start":432.32,"end":433.32,"text":"剛剛委員所提的"},{"start":433.32,"end":434.32,"text":"這是一個有計畫"},{"start":434.32,"end":437.32,"text":"有組織的一個行為"},{"start":437.32,"end":439.32,"text":"所以我們看起來是一個"},{"start":439.32,"end":441.32,"text":"跨境鎮壓的一個模式"},{"start":441.32,"end":443.32,"text":"而且是以打帶跑的方式"},{"start":443.32,"end":445.32,"text":"來做這樣的一個行為"},{"start":445.32,"end":447.32,"text":"那未來我們也會"},{"start":447.32,"end":448.32,"text":"打帶跑"},{"start":448.32,"end":449.32,"text":"我說"},{"start":449.32,"end":451.32,"text":"對對對所以我們接下來"},{"start":451.32,"end":452.32,"text":"預防"},{"start":452.32,"end":454.32,"text":"我們未來就是對於我們"},{"start":454.32,"end":457.32,"text":"這些的保護的對象"},{"start":457.32,"end":458.32,"text":"就是這些"},{"start":458.32,"end":461.32,"text":"對跨境鎮壓保護的這些對象們"},{"start":461.32,"end":464.32,"text":"會對加強他的駐居手的這些"},{"start":464.32,"end":465.32,"text":"的安全維護"},{"start":465.32,"end":467.32,"text":"以及專責聯繫的"},{"start":467.32,"end":469.32,"text":"我們的警力的專責聯繫"},{"start":469.32,"end":471.32,"text":"那對於我們的"},{"start":471.32,"end":473.32,"text":"相關的單位"},{"start":473.32,"end":475.32,"text":"包括檢查或是移民單位"},{"start":475.32,"end":476.32,"text":"會共同來做合作"},{"start":476.32,"end":478.32,"text":"那另外我想就是說"},{"start":478.32,"end":480.32,"text":"有類似這些案件"},{"start":480.32,"end":483.32,"text":"我們不能以一般行為來做一個處置"},{"start":483.32,"end":485.32,"text":"那就是處理這些案件"},{"start":485.32,"end":486.32,"text":"要有這些敏感"},{"start":486.32,"end":489.32,"text":"我們的員警要有這些敏感度"},{"start":489.32,"end":490.32,"text":"也就是說"},{"start":490.32,"end":495.32,"text":"這些被中共跨境鎮壓的這些對象"},{"start":495.32,"end":498.32,"text":"那未來如果有這些的相關的案件"},{"start":498.32,"end":499.32,"text":"不管什麼情形"},{"start":499.32,"end":502.32,"text":"不能是以一般行為來做看待"},{"start":502.32,"end":503.32,"text":"要以這個"},{"start":503.32,"end":504.32,"text":"這個這個對於"},{"start":504.32,"end":506.32,"text":"是不是屬於長臂管轄"},{"start":506.32,"end":508.32,"text":"或跨境鎮壓的這個情形"},{"start":508.32,"end":509.32,"text":"來做一個偵查"},{"start":509.32,"end":510.32,"text":"好謝謝署長"},{"start":510.32,"end":511.32,"text":"我這個部分"},{"start":511.32,"end":513.3199999999999,"text":"我下一個問題我想請部長回答"},{"start":513.3199999999999,"end":515.3199999999999,"text":"因為部長直接表態這樣子"},{"start":515.3199999999999,"end":517.3199999999999,"text":"署長您先旁邊休息一下"},{"start":517.3199999999999,"end":518.3199999999999,"text":"不好意思"},{"start":518.3199999999999,"end":521.3199999999999,"text":"部長我想雖然剛剛我聽了署長的回答"},{"start":521.3199999999999,"end":522.3199999999999,"text":"但是我有幾點"},{"start":522.3199999999999,"end":525.3199999999999,"text":"我並不是那麼滿意同意"},{"start":525.3199999999999,"end":526.3199999999999,"text":"我認為說"},{"start":526.3199999999999,"end":528.3199999999999,"text":"我認為現在跨境鎮壓"},{"start":528.3199999999999,"end":531.3199999999999,"text":"中國對台灣對台灣的民主人士"},{"start":531.3199999999999,"end":533.3199999999999,"text":"對全世界的民主人士"},{"start":533.3199999999999,"end":534.3199999999999,"text":"利用法律戰"},{"start":534.32,"end":535.32,"text":"利用法律戰"},{"start":535.32,"end":536.32,"text":"利用各式的手法"},{"start":536.32,"end":538.32,"text":"甚至想要進行長臂管轄"},{"start":538.32,"end":540.32,"text":"甚至是要跨境鎮壓"},{"start":540.32,"end":542.32,"text":"這樣的模式是越來越嚴重"},{"start":542.32,"end":543.32,"text":"那我們應該要處理"},{"start":543.32,"end":544.32,"text":"尤其在台灣"},{"start":544.32,"end":545.32,"text":"但我不認為"},{"start":545.32,"end":546.32,"text":"剛剛署長答到說"},{"start":546.32,"end":547.32,"text":"受保護對象"},{"start":547.32,"end":548.32,"text":"誰是受保護對象"},{"start":548.32,"end":551.32,"text":"全體台灣國民都是受保護對象"},{"start":551.32,"end":553.32,"text":"我認為全體台灣國民"},{"start":553.32,"end":556.32,"text":"都是應該受到我們民主法治的保護"},{"start":556.32,"end":558.32,"text":"所以在這樣的狀況下"},{"start":558.32,"end":559.32,"text":"在這樣的狀況下"},{"start":559.32,"end":562.32,"text":"我的國人應該要怎麼樣避免"},{"start":562.32,"end":564.32,"text":"未來有這樣的人士"},{"start":564.32,"end":567.32,"text":"從外面調外面的黑幫來"},{"start":567.32,"end":569.32,"text":"外面境外人士來"},{"start":569.32,"end":571.32,"text":"欺負傷害我們的國民"},{"start":571.32,"end":572.32,"text":"我覺得這件事情是重要的"},{"start":572.32,"end":573.32,"text":"好那你認為"},{"start":573.32,"end":574.32,"text":"因為我們正因為"},{"start":574.32,"end":576.32,"text":"我們是民主法治的國家"},{"start":576.32,"end":577.32,"text":"我們有遷徙移動的自由"},{"start":577.32,"end":578.32,"text":"我們也沒有辦法"},{"start":578.32,"end":579.32,"text":"在第一時間"},{"start":579.32,"end":580.32,"text":"現在的機制"},{"start":580.32,"end":581.32,"text":"也還沒有辦法"},{"start":581.32,"end":583.32,"text":"阻止這些人直接進入"},{"start":583.32,"end":585.32,"text":"那麼我認為像現在"},{"start":585.32,"end":588.32,"text":"此刻這一次案件當中"},{"start":588.32,"end":590.32,"text":"犯案者沒有辦法離開"},{"start":590.32,"end":591.32,"text":"我們的國門"},{"start":591.32,"end":592.32,"text":"要在我們的國家"},{"start":592.32,"end":593.32,"text":"接受法律的制裁"},{"start":593.32,"end":594.32,"text":"要接受法律的調查"},{"start":594.32,"end":596.32,"text":"我覺得這非常好"},{"start":596.32,"end":598.32,"text":"你至少這一段"},{"start":598.32,"end":599.32,"text":"這一點"},{"start":599.32,"end":601.32,"text":"是未來一定要做到的事情"},{"start":601.32,"end":602.32,"text":"所以有犯案者"},{"start":602.32,"end":603.32,"text":"你沒有辦法就這樣"},{"start":603.32,"end":604.32,"text":"打了人然後就跑出去"},{"start":604.32,"end":605.32,"text":"我覺得這次警方"},{"start":605.32,"end":606.32,"text":"做的最好的地方"},{"start":606.32,"end":607.32,"text":"就是快速反應"},{"start":607.32,"end":609.32,"text":"在國門前就把人攔下來"},{"start":609.32,"end":611.32,"text":"這至少對我們來講是個交代"},{"start":611.32,"end":613.32,"text":"但我認為現在這樣"},{"start":613.32,"end":615.32,"text":"會不會有第二件第三件"},{"start":615.32,"end":616.32,"text":"不知道"},{"start":616.32,"end":617.32,"text":"所以我們才看到"},{"start":617.32,"end":618.32,"text":"您的報告裡面"},{"start":618.32,"end":619.32,"text":"有說是有跨境鎮壓"},{"start":619.32,"end":620.32,"text":"跨機關協助平台"},{"start":620.32,"end":621.32,"text":"我們才想知道說"},{"start":621.32,"end":623.32,"text":"難民的方式處置是什麼"},{"start":623.32,"end":625.32,"text":"謝謝委員的關心"},{"start":625.32,"end":626.32,"text":"我想委員我分兩個階段"},{"start":626.32,"end":628.32,"text":"就這樣的個案的部分"},{"start":628.32,"end":629.32,"text":"不管是跨境鎮壓"},{"start":629.32,"end":631.32,"text":"或者是長臂管轄"},{"start":631.32,"end":632.32,"text":"在這之前"},{"start":632.32,"end":634.32,"text":"一定有類似的案件"},{"start":634.32,"end":635.32,"text":"譬如說我們很多"},{"start":635.32,"end":638.32,"text":"在台灣生活的香港人士"},{"start":638.32,"end":640.32,"text":"他們也被剝契等等這些"},{"start":640.32,"end":642.32,"text":"但是當時警員"},{"start":642.32,"end":643.32,"text":"大概都是用一般傷害案"},{"start":643.32,"end":646.32,"text":"或者是沒有去提告的時候"},{"start":646.32,"end":647.32,"text":"完全不知道"},{"start":647.32,"end":648.32,"text":"後來我們慢慢發現到說"},{"start":648.32,"end":650.32,"text":"此事不可以如此"},{"start":650.32,"end":651.32,"text":"這樣子會造成"},{"start":651.32,"end":653.32,"text":"所謂的寒蟬效應"},{"start":653.32,"end":655.32,"text":"由這一次石板明夫先生"},{"start":655.32,"end":656.32,"text":"被打的案件"},{"start":656.32,"end":658.32,"text":"我們有感受到第一個"},{"start":658.32,"end":659.32,"text":"我們必須要正視"},{"start":659.32,"end":661.32,"text":"而且審慎來知道說"},{"start":661.32,"end":663.32,"text":"是不是有其他的境外的勢力"},{"start":663.32,"end":665.32,"text":"包括香港或者是其他的"},{"start":665.32,"end":666.32,"text":"黑勢力也好"},{"start":666.32,"end":668.32,"text":"或是其他也許有其他的"},{"start":668.32,"end":669.32,"text":"統戰勢力"},{"start":669.32,"end":671.32,"text":"有進入這樣子的方式"},{"start":671.32,"end":672.32,"text":"來造成我們國人"},{"start":672.32,"end":673.32,"text":"在人身安全上面"},{"start":673.32,"end":675.32,"text":"保障的一個狀況"},{"start":675.32,"end":676.32,"text":"這個部分第一個"},{"start":676.32,"end":677.32,"text":"我們在警察局"},{"start":677.32,"end":678.32,"text":"包括地方警局"},{"start":678.32,"end":679.32,"text":"或者包括航警"},{"start":679.32,"end":680.32,"text":"甚至移民單位"},{"start":680.32,"end":681.32,"text":"或者國安單位"},{"start":681.32,"end":683.32,"text":"已經有慢慢形成"},{"start":683.32,"end":684.32,"text":"這樣的機制來處理"},{"start":684.32,"end":686.32,"text":"如果牽涉到跨境鎮壓"},{"start":686.32,"end":688.32,"text":"或是長臂管轄的時候"},{"start":688.32,"end":689.32,"text":"第一個先如何保護"},{"start":689.32,"end":691.32,"text":"有可能要保護的對象"},{"start":691.32,"end":692.32,"text":"第二個怎麼樣"},{"start":692.32,"end":693.32,"text":"透過比較好的機制"},{"start":693.32,"end":694.32,"text":"來處理這一塊"},{"start":694.32,"end":696.32,"text":"第三個我想我們並不排除"},{"start":696.32,"end":699.32,"text":"爭取其他有盟國家的協助"},{"start":699.32,"end":700.32,"text":"讓我們知道說"},{"start":700.32,"end":702.32,"text":"跨境鎮壓的這些人"},{"start":702.32,"end":703.32,"text":"他們到底幕後"},{"start":703.32,"end":705.32,"text":"是屬於國際的黑幫士"},{"start":705.32,"end":706.32,"text":"還是有其他的"},{"start":706.32,"end":708.32,"text":"政府的惡勢力來入侵"},{"start":708.32,"end":709.32,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":709.32,"end":710.32,"text":"我們按照這個階段"},{"start":710.32,"end":712.32,"text":"這一步一步在執行"},{"start":712.32,"end":713.32,"text":"剛剛署長所提到的"},{"start":713.32,"end":715.32,"text":"就是說為了預防"},{"start":715.32,"end":716.32,"text":"有這個在國內的人"},{"start":716.32,"end":718.32,"text":"有受到這樣的狀況"},{"start":718.32,"end":719.32,"text":"我們還是呼籲"},{"start":719.32,"end":720.32,"text":"如果你有任何"},{"start":720.32,"end":721.32,"text":"這樣的狀況的話"},{"start":721.32,"end":722.32,"text":"請趕快來報案"},{"start":722.32,"end":723.32,"text":"由這一次"},{"start":723.32,"end":725.32,"text":"台中市警方移民署"},{"start":725.32,"end":726.32,"text":"還有我們的相關的"},{"start":726.32,"end":727.32,"text":"國民單位"},{"start":727.32,"end":728.32,"text":"國安單位或航警"},{"start":728.32,"end":730.32,"text":"在很快的時間內"},{"start":730.32,"end":731.32,"text":"阻止他馬上"},{"start":731.32,"end":733.32,"text":"換機票就出國"},{"start":733.32,"end":734.32,"text":"這部分的話"},{"start":734.32,"end":735.32,"text":"其實就是表示"},{"start":735.32,"end":736.32,"text":"因為石板民夫先生"},{"start":736.32,"end":737.32,"text":"他馬上就報案"},{"start":737.32,"end":739.32,"text":"如果他過了一陣子"},{"start":739.32,"end":740.32,"text":"才報案的時候"},{"start":740.32,"end":741.32,"text":"這個人可能已經出去了"},{"start":741.32,"end":742.32,"text":"那大家知道"},{"start":742.32,"end":743.32,"text":"他出去"},{"start":743.32,"end":744.32,"text":"而且不是台灣的人的話"},{"start":744.32,"end":745.32,"text":"要把他抓回來"},{"start":745.32,"end":746.32,"text":"接受我們法律制裁的"},{"start":746.32,"end":748.32,"text":"可能性就降低很多"},{"start":748.32,"end":750.32,"text":"好謝謝部長的說明"},{"start":750.32,"end":751.32,"text":"也謝謝署長"},{"start":751.32,"end":753.32,"text":"因為我再次的感謝"},{"start":753.32,"end":755.32,"text":"當時警察有這樣子的"},{"start":755.32,"end":756.32,"text":"警察同仁有這樣的敏感度"},{"start":756.32,"end":757.32,"text":"和做這樣的執行"},{"start":757.32,"end":758.32,"text":"那我們是希望"},{"start":758.32,"end":760.32,"text":"因為未來可能"},{"start":760.32,"end":761.32,"text":"我們當然不希望"},{"start":761.32,"end":762.32,"text":"但如果有這樣"},{"start":762.32,"end":763.32,"text":"但如果有這樣"},{"start":763.32,"end":764.32,"text":"更多的案件的話"},{"start":764.32,"end":765.32,"text":"我們希望能夠有"},{"start":765.32,"end":766.32,"text":"更精進的作為"},{"start":766.32,"end":767.32,"text":"保護國人的安全"},{"start":767.32,"end":768.32,"text":"好謝謝署長"},{"start":768.32,"end":769.32,"text":"謝謝署長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:39:49.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:39:53.815556+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主席，我們請內政部劉部長，還有陸委會邱主委。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T09:39:53.815556+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:39:57.767778+08:00","text":"請部長、主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:39:57.767778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:40:01.720000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:40:01.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:40:05.410909+08:00","text":"我先請教一下邱主委好了，不好意思，劉部長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:40:06.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:40:07.070000+08:00","text":"蘇委員好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:40:07.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:40:19.898947+08:00","text":"邱主委的部分，我就只請問一個，因為剛剛我很認真在聽許委員的質詢，真的學識飽滿、學問很好，但是我覺得是這樣子，我聽了以後有一個感想。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:40:20.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:40:40.138182+08:00","text":"我過去一直在主張的其實就是我們的行政部門、政府機關對人民的宣傳，還有對人民訊息的傳達要能夠簡潔，甚至有力，尤其是對於像這種標語式、綱要式的，能夠直接讓大家知道，這個真的要非常簡潔清楚。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:40:40.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:40:52.208889+08:00","text":"比如剛剛我聽到的質詢有說到一句話叫做：「現在的狀況是陸客不來、我們不去、失聯不查」，這三句話聽起來很可怕，可是這三句話跟我認知的事實完全不一樣。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:40:52.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:40:59.220000+08:00","text":"主委，你能不能夠用同樣三句話或者是同樣簡單的一句話告訴我們，現在的狀況到底是什麼？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:40:59.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:03.120000+08:00","text":"現在臺灣真的是陸客不來、我們不去，失聯不查嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:03.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:05.138182+08:00","text":"這太嚴重了吧，這是事實嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:05.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:06.920000+08:00","text":"這是事實嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:07.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:10.047273+08:00","text":"當然不是，謝謝委員的指導。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:10.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:13.089231+08:00","text":"當然不是事實，這三句都不是啊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:13.089231+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:14.089231+08:00","text":"是，目前……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:13.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:18.473846+08:00","text":"陸客不來是因為對方不給他們來；我們不去，有嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:18.704615+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:24.570000+08:00","text":"我們沒有不去，我們去年去中國旅遊的人其實相當的多；失聯不查，有嗎？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:24.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:31.473846+08:00","text":"沒有，現在數字上列得清清楚楚，查這麼多，但能不能查到，這才是問題，而能不能救回來？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:31.704615+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:32.858462+08:00","text":"這更是個問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:33.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:40.084706+08:00","text":"結果這三句話就是人民想聽的三句話，應該要大大的明白，這三句話不是事實。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:40.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:43.820000+08:00","text":"是，陸客是因為……陸客很想來臺灣。對啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:44.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:52.320000+08:00","text":"陸客不能來臺灣是因為他們的政府不發給他證件，他們出境旅遊都是要政府許可。是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:53.748571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:55.177143+08:00","text":"像我們臺灣人民可以自由進出全世界。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:55.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:41:56.320000+08:00","text":"我們歡迎他們來。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:41:56.653333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:01.120000+08:00","text":"但是陸客仍然是受到嚴格的境外管制、出境的管制。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:01.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:02.908235+08:00","text":"我們不能去中國大陸嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:03.084706+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:04.143529+08:00","text":"我們不能去中國嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:04.143529+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:05.143529+08:00","text":"沒有阿！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:05.143529+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:06.143529+08:00","text":"我們的鄉親才跟我分享……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:04.865455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:07.047273+08:00","text":"其實目前為止，我們的憲法是尊重人民自由遷徙的。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:09.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:11.695000+08:00","text":"鄉親剛剛才分享去那邊玩回來的照片，對啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:13.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:13.945000+08:00","text":"失聯也不查嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:14.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:16.202353+08:00","text":"你現在不是整份報告都在寫你查不查嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:16.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:21.120000+08:00","text":"我們重點都在幫助人民，要去查他的下落在哪裡。是。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:21.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:27.720000+08:00","text":"每一個報案都是帶給每個家庭愁雲慘霧，所以我們要關懷協助他。是。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:27.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:29.891429+08:00","text":"我們陸委會、海基會都有一個聯合……","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:30.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:35.070000+08:00","text":"我們不但查而且非常積極協助，但問題是查了能不能夠查到？","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:35.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:36.177143+08:00","text":"能不能夠救回來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:36.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:39.132500+08:00","text":"這個真的就是我們要大力來努力的部分。是。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:39.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:50.089231+08:00","text":"所以主委，這個部分我實在是非常強烈的要求，我們在回答問題、我們在傳遞資訊、在傳達政府作為的時候簡潔有力、清楚明白，這樣可以嗎？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:50.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:51.153333+08:00","text":"謝謝指導，我們會努力。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:51.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:53.097778+08:00","text":"謝謝主委，先這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:55.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:56.820000+08:00","text":"主委先請回，謝謝你。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:56.820000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:58.986667+08:00","text":"我請劉部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:58.986667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:58.986667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:42:59.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:42:59.986667+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:43:00.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:43:20.138182+08:00","text":"部長，我想跟您同樣請教另外一件問題，我們在地方的時候其實聽到很多鄉親在詢問有關矢板明夫這樣一個在臺灣具有知名度的人，在路上走竟然會被打，而且打到受傷，嘴角有撕裂傷，這是一個什麼樣的狀況？","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:43:20.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:43:26.070000+08:00","text":"部長，你可以跟我們說明一下目前內政部就這件傷害案調查的狀況如何嗎？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:43:26.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:43:34.986667+08:00","text":"為什麼政府現在調查了一段時間以後，認為它不是一件尋常的傷害案，甚至有可能是政治案件，為什麼？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:43:35.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:43:49.153333+08:00","text":"報告委員，矢板明夫是臺灣非常有名的媒體先進，他在演講結束之後受到一個香港人廖姓嫌疑犯的毆打，我們認為事情不是很簡單。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:43:49.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:44:04.138182+08:00","text":"目前廖姓嫌犯在7月7號已經經臺中地院裁准羈押禁見，當然後面有很多不同的政治動機，但是有關查察的經過，我是不是可以請張署長來跟你做個簡要的說明？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:44:04.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:44:19.143529+08:00","text":"好，張署長，我希望你也是言簡意賅的，能夠跟我們分享一下，你現在調查的資訊到底是……這個案件事前、事發、事後到底有哪些跡象讓你覺得這不是一件尋常的傷害案？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:44:19.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:44:24.105714+08:00","text":"因為傷害案確實是常常發生，為什麼這件我們特別要挑出來講？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:44:24.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:44:25.120000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:44:25.507500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:44:38.007500+08:00","text":"這個案件的廖姓嫌犯現在是羈押、偵查當中，我們初步現在看起來，這不是一個單純的傷害案件，是一個很標準的跨境鎮壓的案件。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:44:38.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:44:38.986667+08:00","text":"怎麼說？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:44:39.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:44:53.986667+08:00","text":"這個是一個有組織性的性質，我們現在會向上溯源或者是甚至對在地的協力者在做努力的偵查當中。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:44:54.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:44:59.153333+08:00","text":"署長，像這種在備詢臺的時候其實就是講得最清楚的時候。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:44:59.865455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:45:13.120000+08:00","text":"我當然沒有收到，我也沒有跟你們調資料，我是從新聞上面看的，第一、這個人是從境外進來的，這個廖姓男子從境外進來，據查具有香港黑幫身分。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:45:13.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:45:19.153333+08:00","text":"這是一個跟平常不太一樣的狀況，打人的是一個從外面來的人，而且打人時的狀況是什麼樣子？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:45:19.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:45:24.097778+08:00","text":"是他先叫了你的名字，看了你一眼，確定是你之後才打下去。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:45:24.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:45:37.986667+08:00","text":"打完以後立刻就走，不但是離開案發現場，而且回報完以後，立刻要急著出境，從外面進來傷害了我們的國人之後，立刻又要出境。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:45:38.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:45:55.986667+08:00","text":"從這三點來看，包括事前及事發時還要確認你是誰，顯然要打的是特定人士，然後事發後是立刻出境，就事前、事發和事後這三個狀態，讓我們覺得這不是一件尋常的案件，是不是？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:45:56.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:46:01.097778+08:00","text":"它跟任何一般的傷害案件都不一樣，所以警方要全力追查。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:46:01.403333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:46:10.153333+08:00","text":"也很感謝警方在第一時間、在他出境前就已經把他攔下來，所以才會有經過相關的調查，我們在媒體上看到這些跡象。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:46:10.542222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:46:47.153333+08:00","text":"署長，我現在就想問，因為事發是在7月6號，剛好7月1號中國發布了民族團結促進法，其實裡面就提到在中國境外也要有長臂管轄，任何人都不能夠分裂民族、分裂國土的狀態等等，所以您認為這個案件跨境鎮壓想要達到的目的以及它未來發生的頻率，你們有想像嗎？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:46:47.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:46:48.153333+08:00","text":"你們有判斷嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:46:48.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:47:05.034286+08:00","text":"當然有，誠如剛剛委員所提的，這是有計畫、有組織的行為，所以看起來是跨境鎮壓的一個模式，而且是以打帶跑的方式來做這樣的行為，未來我們也會跑……預防？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:47:05.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:47:05.986667+08:00","text":"打帶跑……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:47:07.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:47:09.820000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們接下來怎麼預防，然後……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:47:10.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:47:34.177143+08:00","text":"未來就是對於這些跨境鎮壓保護的對象，我們會對加強其住居所的安全維護，以及加強我們警力的專責聯繫，包括檢察或是移民等相關單位會共同來合作。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:47:34.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:48:07.153333+08:00","text":"另外，類似這些案件我們不能以一般刑案來處置，處理這些案件時，我們的員警要有敏感度，也就是說，這些被中共跨境鎮壓的對象，未來如果有相關案件，不管什麼樣的情形，都不能以一般刑案來看待，而要以是不是屬於長臂管轄或跨境鎮壓的情形來加以偵查。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:48:07.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:48:16.070000+08:00","text":"謝謝署長，下一個問題我想請部長回答，也就是要請部長直接表態，請署長先到旁邊休息一下，不好意思。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:48:16.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:48:23.020000+08:00","text":"部長，雖然剛剛聽了署長的回答，但是有幾點我並不是那麼滿意或同意。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:48:23.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:48:42.120000+08:00","text":"我認為現在的跨境鎮壓，中國對臺灣的民主人士、對全世界的民主人士利用法律戰、利用各式手法想要進行長臂管轄，甚至是要跨境鎮壓，這樣的模式是越來越嚴重，我們應該要處理，尤其在臺灣。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:48:43.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:48:46.177143+08:00","text":"剛剛署長回答時提到受保護對象，誰是受保護對象？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:48:46.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:48:49.089231+08:00","text":"全體臺灣國民都是受保護對象。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:48:49.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:01.570000+08:00","text":"我認為全體臺灣國民都是應該受到我們民主法治的保護，所以在這樣的狀況下，我們的國人應該要怎麼樣避免未來有這樣的狀況？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:01.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:10.229091+08:00","text":"該如何避免有人從外面調黑幫境外人士來欺負、傷害我們的國民，我覺得這件事情是重要的。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:11.891429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:21.097778+08:00","text":"正因為我們是民主法治國家，我們有遷徙移動的自由，現在的機制還沒有辦法在第一時間阻止這些人直接進入。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:21.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:39.138182+08:00","text":"我認為像現在、此刻，在這一次案件當中，犯案者沒有辦法離開我們的國門，要在我們的國家接受法律的制裁、要接受法律的調查，我覺得這非常好，至少這一點是未來一定要做到的事情。是。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:39.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:49:49.153333+08:00","text":"所有犯案者都沒有辦法打了人然後就跑出去，我覺得這次警方做得最好的地方就是快速反應，在國門前就把人攔下來，至少這對我們來講是個交代。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:49:49.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:01.120000+08:00","text":"但我認為現在有了第一件，之後會不會有第二件、第三件不知道，而我們看到您的報告裡面有說跨境鎮壓、跨機關協處平臺，所以我們才想知道您的處置方式是什麼？","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:01.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:31.034286+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的關心，我想我分成兩個階段來說明，就這樣的個案，不管是跨境鎮壓或者是長臂管轄，在這之前一定有類似的案件，譬如有很多在臺灣生活的香港人士也被潑漆等等，但是當時警員大概就是用一般傷害案來偵辦，或者是沒有去提告的時候完全不知道，後來我們慢慢發現到此事不可以如此處理，這樣子會造成所謂的寒蟬效應。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:31.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:50:53.034286+08:00","text":"由這一次矢板明夫先生被打的案件，我們感受到幾點：第一個，我們必須要正視，而且審慎了解是不是有其他境外勢力，包括香港或者是其他的黑勢力也好，或是也許有其他統戰勢力進入，造成我們國人在人身安全保障遭受威脅的狀況。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:50:53.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:09.097778+08:00","text":"針對這個部分，首先我們在警察局，包括地方警局、航警，甚至移民單位或者國安單位，已經有慢慢形成這樣的機制來處理，如果牽涉到跨境鎮壓或者長臂管轄的時候，第一個要如何先保護有可能要保護的對象？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:09.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:12.153333+08:00","text":"第二個，怎麼樣透過比較好的機制來處理這一塊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:12.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:30.070000+08:00","text":"第三個，我想我們並不排除爭取其他友盟國家的協助，讓我們知道跨境鎮壓的這些人到底幕後是屬於國際的黑幫勢力，還是有其他的政府惡勢力入侵，這個部分我們按照這個階段都一步一步在執行。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:30.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:40.153333+08:00","text":"剛剛署長所提到的是為了預防在國內的人遭受這樣的狀況，我們還是呼籲如果你有任何這樣的狀況的話，請趕快來報案。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:40.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:51:59.220000+08:00","text":"這一次由臺中市警方、移民署以及相關國安單位或航警，在很快的時間內阻止他馬上換機票就出國，其實就是因為矢板明夫先生馬上就報案，如果他過了一陣子才報案的話，這個人可能已經出去了。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-07-29T09:51:59.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:06.070000+08:00","text":"相信大家都知道，一旦他跑出去，而且不是臺灣的人的話，要把他抓回來接受我們法律制裁的可能性就降低很多。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:06.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:27.070000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長的說明，也謝謝署長，再次感謝當時警察同仁有這樣的敏感度並且這樣執行，因為未來可能還會發生，我們當然不希望，但如果有更多這類案件的話，我們希望能夠有更精進的作為，保護國人的安全，謝謝部長，謝謝署長。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:27.570000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:30.712857+08:00","text":"下一位請張宏陸委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":203,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時39分）好，謝謝主席，我們請內政部劉部長，還有陸委會邱主委。"],["主席：請部長、主委。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我先請教一下邱主委好了，不好意思，劉部長。"],["邱主任委員垂正：蘇委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：邱主委的部分，我就只請問一個，因為剛剛我很認真在聽許委員的質詢，真的學識飽滿、學問很好，但是我覺得是這樣子，我聽了以後有一個感想。我過去一直在主張的其實就是我們的行政部門、政府機關對人民的宣傳，還有對人民訊息的傳達要能夠簡潔，甚至有力，尤其是對於像這種標語式、綱要式的，能夠直接讓大家知道，這個真的要非常簡潔清楚。比如剛剛我聽到的質詢有說到一句話叫做：「現在的狀況是陸客不來、我們不去、失聯不查」，這三句話聽起來很可怕，可是這三句話跟我認知的事實完全不一樣。主委，你能不能夠用同樣三句話或者是同樣簡單的一句話告訴我們，現在的狀況到底是什麼？現在臺灣真的是陸客不來、我們不去，失聯不查嗎？這太嚴重了吧，這是事實嗎？這是事實嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然不是，謝謝委員的指導。"],["蘇委員巧慧：當然不是事實，這三句都不是啊。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，目前……"],["蘇委員巧慧：陸客不來是因為對方不給他們來；我們不去，有嗎？我們沒有不去，我們去年去中國旅遊的人其實相當的多；失聯不查，有嗎？沒有，現在數字上列得清清楚楚，查這麼多，但能不能查到，這才是問題，而能不能救回來？這更是個問題。結果這三句話就是人民想聽的三句話，應該要大大的明白，這三句話不是事實。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，陸客是因為……陸客很想來臺灣。"],["蘇委員巧慧：對啊！"],["邱主任委員垂正：陸客不能來臺灣是因為他們的政府不發給他證件，他們出境旅遊都是要政府許可。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是。"],["邱主任委員垂正：像我們臺灣人民可以自由進出全世界。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我們歡迎他們來。"],["邱主任委員垂正：但是陸客仍然是受到嚴格的境外管制、出境的管制。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我們不能去中國大陸嗎？我們不能去中國嗎？沒有阿！我們的鄉親才跟我分享……"],["邱主任委員垂正：其實目前為止，我們的憲法是尊重人民自由遷徙的。"],["蘇委員巧慧：鄉親剛剛才分享去那邊玩回來的照片，對啊！失聯也不查嗎？你現在不是整份報告都在寫你查不查嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們重點都在幫助人民，要去查他的下落在哪裡。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是。"],["邱主任委員垂正：每一個報案都是帶給每個家庭愁雲慘霧，所以我們要關懷協助他。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們陸委會、海基會都有一個聯合……"],["蘇委員巧慧：我們不但查而且非常積極協助，但問題是查了能不能夠查到？能不能夠救回來？這個真的就是我們要大力來努力的部分。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以主委，這個部分我實在是非常強烈的要求，我們在回答問題、我們在傳遞資訊、在傳達政府作為的時候簡潔有力、清楚明白，這樣可以嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝指導，我們會努力。"],["蘇委員巧慧：謝謝主委，先這樣。主委先請回，謝謝你。","我請劉部長。"],["劉部長世芳：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：部長好。部長，我想跟您同樣請教另外一件問題，我們在地方的時候其實聽到很多鄉親在詢問有關矢板明夫這樣一個在臺灣具有知名度的人，在路上走竟然會被打，而且打到受傷，嘴角有撕裂傷，這是一個什麼樣的狀況？部長，你可以跟我們說明一下目前內政部就這件傷害案調查的狀況如何嗎？為什麼政府現在調查了一段時間以後，認為它不是一件尋常的傷害案，甚至有可能是政治案件，為什麼？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，矢板明夫是臺灣非常有名的媒體先進，他在演講結束之後受到一個香港人廖姓嫌疑犯的毆打，我們認為事情不是很簡單。目前廖姓嫌犯在7月7號已經經臺中地院裁准羈押禁見，當然後面有很多不同的政治動機，但是有關查察的經過，我是不是可以請張署長來跟你做個簡要的說明？"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，張署長，我希望你也是言簡意賅的，能夠跟我們分享一下，你現在調查的資訊到底是……這個案件事前、事發、事後到底有哪些跡象讓你覺得這不是一件尋常的傷害案？因為傷害案確實是常常發生，為什麼這件我們特別要挑出來講？"],["張署長榮興：好，謝謝委員。這個案件的廖姓嫌犯現在是羈押、偵查當中，我們初步現在看起來，這不是一個單純的傷害案件，是一個很標準的跨境鎮壓的案件。"],["蘇委員巧慧：怎麼說？"],["張署長榮興：這個是一個有組織性的性質，我們現在會向上溯源或者是甚至對在地的協力者在做努力的偵查當中。"],["蘇委員巧慧：署長，像這種在備詢臺的時候其實就是講得最清楚的時候。我當然沒有收到，我也沒有跟你們調資料，我是從新聞上面看的，第一、這個人是從境外進來的，這個廖姓男子從境外進來，據查具有香港黑幫身分。這是一個跟平常不太一樣的狀況，打人的是一個從外面來的人，而且打人時的狀況是什麼樣子？是他先叫了你的名字，看了你一眼，確定是你之後才打下去。打完以後立刻就走，不但是離開案發現場，而且回報完以後，立刻要急著出境，從外面進來傷害了我們的國人之後，立刻又要出境。從這三點來看，包括事前及事發時還要確認你是誰，顯然要打的是特定人士，然後事發後是立刻出境，就事前、事發和事後這三個狀態，讓我們覺得這不是一件尋常的案件，是不是？它跟任何一般的傷害案件都不一樣，所以警方要全力追查。也很感謝警方在第一時間、在他出境前就已經把他攔下來，所以才會有經過相關的調查，我們在媒體上看到這些跡象。署長，我現在就想問，因為事發是在7月6號，剛好7月1號中國發布了民族團結促進法，其實裡面就提到在中國境外也要有長臂管轄，任何人都不能夠分裂民族、分裂國土的狀態等等，所以您認為這個案件跨境鎮壓想要達到的目的以及它未來發生的頻率，你們有想像嗎？你們有判斷嗎？"],["張署長榮興：當然有，誠如剛剛委員所提的，這是有計畫、有組織的行為，所以看起來是跨境鎮壓的一個模式，而且是以打帶跑的方式來做這樣的行為，未來我們也會跑……"],["蘇委員巧慧：預防？"],["張署長榮興：打帶跑……"],["蘇委員巧慧：對，所以我們接下來怎麼預防，然後……"],["張署長榮興：未來就是對於這些跨境鎮壓保護的對象，我們會對加強其住居所的安全維護，以及加強我們警力的專責聯繫，包括檢察或是移民等相關單位會共同來合作。另外，類似這些案件我們不能以一般刑案來處置，處理這些案件時，我們的員警要有敏感度，也就是說，這些被中共跨境鎮壓的對象，未來如果有相關案件，不管什麼樣的情形，都不能以一般刑案來看待，而要以是不是屬於長臂管轄或跨境鎮壓的情形來加以偵查。"],["蘇委員巧慧：謝謝署長，下一個問題我想請部長回答，也就是要請部長直接表態，請署長先到旁邊休息一下，不好意思。","部長，雖然剛剛聽了署長的回答，但是有幾點我並不是那麼滿意或同意。我認為現在的跨境鎮壓，中國對臺灣的民主人士、對全世界的民主人士利用法律戰、利用各式手法想要進行長臂管轄，甚至是要跨境鎮壓，這樣的模式是越來越嚴重，我們應該要處理，尤其在臺灣。剛剛署長回答時提到受保護對象，誰是受保護對象？全體臺灣國民都是受保護對象。我認為全體臺灣國民都是應該受到我們民主法治的保護，所以在這樣的狀況下，我們的國人應該要怎麼樣避免未來有這樣的狀況？該如何避免有人從外面調黑幫境外人士來欺負、傷害我們的國民，我覺得這件事情是重要的。正因為我們是民主法治國家，我們有遷徙移動的自由，現在的機制還沒有辦法在第一時間阻止這些人直接進入。我認為像現在、此刻，在這一次案件當中，犯案者沒有辦法離開我們的國門，要在我們的國家接受法律的制裁、要接受法律的調查，我覺得這非常好，至少這一點是未來一定要做到的事情。"],["劉部長世芳：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所有犯案者都沒有辦法打了人然後就跑出去，我覺得這次警方做得最好的地方就是快速反應，在國門前就把人攔下來，至少這對我們來講是個交代。但我認為現在有了第一件，之後會不會有第二件、第三件不知道，而我們看到您的報告裡面有說跨境鎮壓、跨機關協處平臺，所以我們才想知道您的處置方式是什麼？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員的關心，我想我分成兩個階段來說明，就這樣的個案，不管是跨境鎮壓或者是長臂管轄，在這之前一定有類似的案件，譬如有很多在臺灣生活的香港人士也被潑漆等等，但是當時警員大概就是用一般傷害案來偵辦，或者是沒有去提告的時候完全不知道，後來我們慢慢發現到此事不可以如此處理，這樣子會造成所謂的寒蟬效應。由這一次矢板明夫先生被打的案件，我們感受到幾點：第一個，我們必須要正視，而且審慎了解是不是有其他境外勢力，包括香港或者是其他的黑勢力也好，或是也許有其他統戰勢力進入，造成我們國人在人身安全保障遭受威脅的狀況。針對這個部分，首先我們在警察局，包括地方警局、航警，甚至移民單位或者國安單位，已經有慢慢形成這樣的機制來處理，如果牽涉到跨境鎮壓或者長臂管轄的時候，第一個要如何先保護有可能要保護的對象？第二個，怎麼樣透過比較好的機制來處理這一塊？第三個，我想我們並不排除爭取其他友盟國家的協助，讓我們知道跨境鎮壓的這些人到底幕後是屬於國際的黑幫勢力，還是有其他的政府惡勢力入侵，這個部分我們按照這個階段都一步一步在執行。剛剛署長所提到的是為了預防在國內的人遭受這樣的狀況，我們還是呼籲如果你有任何這樣的狀況的話，請趕快來報案。這一次由臺中市警方、移民署以及相關國安單位或航警，在很快的時間內阻止他馬上換機票就出國，其實就是因為矢板明夫先生馬上就報案，如果他過了一陣子才報案的話，這個人可能已經出去了。相信大家都知道，一旦他跑出去，而且不是臺灣的人的話，要把他抓回來接受我們法律制裁的可能性就降低很多。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，謝謝部長的說明，也謝謝署長，再次感謝當時警察同仁有這樣的敏感度並且這樣執行，因為未來可能還會發生，我們當然不希望，但如果有更多這類案件的話，我們希望能夠有更精進的作為，保護國人的安全，謝謝部長，謝謝署長。"],["主席：下一位請張宏陸委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":156,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-15-20","speakers":["廖先翔","許忠信","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","王美惠","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","黃捷","李坤城","李柏毅","許宇甄","謝龍介","葉元之","翁曉玲","徐欣瑩","張智倫","高金素梅","吳宗憲","林德福"],"page_start":81,"meetingDate":["2026-07-29"],"gazette_id":"1156801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員、內政部部長、法務部、警政署、移民署、財團法人海峽交流基金\n會就「國人赴陸失聯情況及政府因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請內政部部長、警\n政署署長就「『萊爾校長』小編遭警突襲查水表事件，檢視警察執法標準與行政中立」進行專題\n報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156801_00010"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}