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我們很清楚"},{"start":355.1,"end":357.1,"text":"因為我們剛才也報告就是說"},{"start":357.1,"end":359.1,"text":"中國大陸想盡辦法"},{"start":359.1,"end":362.1,"text":"一直招攬我們的國人過去"},{"start":362.1,"end":364.1,"text":"不管是低價旅遊"},{"start":364.1,"end":366.1,"text":"免費招待 落地招待"},{"start":366.1,"end":368.1,"text":"照著我們很多年輕朋友"},{"start":368.1,"end":370.1,"text":"很多的國人"},{"start":370.1,"end":373.1,"text":"我們的村民 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我覺得公布數字不痛不癢"},{"start":414.1,"end":416.1,"text":"也沒什麼"},{"start":416.1,"end":418.1,"text":"大家沒有感受"},{"start":418.1,"end":423.1,"text":"比如說我那時候就要求警政署"},{"start":423.1,"end":425.1,"text":"你每天在那邊反詐騙"},{"start":425.1,"end":427.1,"text":"誰不知道詐騙"},{"start":427.1,"end":429.1,"text":"但最新的詐騙形態是什麼"},{"start":429.1,"end":431.1,"text":"大家哪知道"},{"start":431.1,"end":433.1,"text":"後來要求他們要拍最新的"},{"start":433.1,"end":436.1,"text":"這種詐騙方式的宣導影片"},{"start":436.1,"end":437.1,"text":"他們現在就做了"},{"start":437.1,"end":438.1,"text":"大家一看就知道"},{"start":438.1,"end":440.1,"text":"我現在最新的是什麼"},{"start":440.1,"end":443.1,"text":"那你們為什麼不也這樣選"},{"start":443.1,"end":445.1,"text":"我們不用成本了"},{"start":445.1,"end":447.1,"text":"放在網路上就好了"},{"start":447.1,"end":448.1,"text":"大家就看得懂"},{"start":448.1,"end":451.1,"text":"這樣才知道我是屬於哪一種"},{"start":452.1,"end":454.1,"text":"不然他也不知道"},{"start":454.1,"end":456.1,"text":"我相信一般人不知道"},{"start":456.1,"end":458.1,"text":"而且我還要跟你講"},{"start":458.1,"end":461.1,"text":"他們現在要我們年輕人"},{"start":461.1,"end":463.1,"text":"要去中國"},{"start":463.1,"end":464.1,"text":"你知道嗎"},{"start":464.1,"end":465.1,"text":"我們台灣的年輕人"},{"start":465.1,"end":467.1,"text":"很多人在網路上可能講了一句話"},{"start":467.1,"end":468.1,"text":"我跟你講"},{"start":468.1,"end":471.1,"text":"過去那邊有沒有可能被抓起來"},{"start":471.1,"end":472.1,"text":"是"},{"start":472.1,"end":473.1,"text":"有沒有可能"},{"start":473.1,"end":474.1,"text":"都有可能"},{"start":474.1,"end":475.1,"text":"我們的年輕人"},{"start":475.1,"end":477.1,"text":"我們台灣是一面自由的國家"},{"start":477.1,"end":478.1,"text":"對不對"},{"start":478.1,"end":479.1,"text":"有可能在網路上講一個"},{"start":479.1,"end":480.1,"text":"他的法律那麼多"},{"start":480.1,"end":482.1,"text":"隨便都可能處罰"},{"start":482.1,"end":484.1,"text":"他要鼓勵我們台灣的年輕人"},{"start":484.1,"end":486.1,"text":"去那邊要積極統戰"},{"start":486.1,"end":488.1,"text":"我們的年輕人可能"},{"start":488.1,"end":490.1,"text":"很多人還不知道"},{"start":490.1,"end":493.1,"text":"這個年輕人如果過去"},{"start":493.1,"end":495.1,"text":"就被抓起來了"},{"start":495.1,"end":496.1,"text":"我的意思是說"},{"start":496.1,"end":498.1,"text":"要類似這一種的短片"},{"start":498.1,"end":499.1,"text":"讓大家知道"},{"start":499.1,"end":501.1,"text":"你去就有很高的風險"},{"start":501.1,"end":503.1,"text":"謝謝委員指導"},{"start":503.1,"end":507.1,"text":"我們也在Ruos這方面宣導工作"},{"start":507.1,"end":509.1,"text":"第一個要去識別化"},{"start":509.1,"end":512.1,"text":"但是就委員所說的那個樣態"},{"start":512.1,"end":515.1,"text":"我們去識別化把那個樣態呈現出來"},{"start":515.1,"end":516.1,"text":"用短影片"},{"start":516.1,"end":518.1,"text":"或是我們例行記者會"},{"start":518.1,"end":520.1,"text":"不斷的對外去宣導"},{"start":520.1,"end":522.1,"text":"這是我們目前努力的工作"},{"start":522.1,"end":523.1,"text":"好啦我覺得要這樣子"},{"start":523.1,"end":525.1,"text":"而且這短片不要發什麼"},{"start":525.1,"end":526.1,"text":"花多少錢"},{"start":526.1,"end":528.1,"text":"而且就放在網路上"},{"start":528.1,"end":529.1,"text":"你就讓大家知道"},{"start":529.1,"end":531.1,"text":"你是屬於哪些樣態的"},{"start":531.1,"end":532.1,"text":"就不能去啊"},{"start":532.1,"end":533.1,"text":"對不對"},{"start":533.1,"end":534.1,"text":"不然這個"},{"start":534.1,"end":536.1,"text":"他現在積極"},{"start":536.1,"end":538.1,"text":"要我們台灣的年輕人"},{"start":538.1,"end":539.1,"text":"台親一家"},{"start":539.1,"end":541.1,"text":"這個很多一堆"},{"start":541.1,"end":542.1,"text":"我很擔心"},{"start":542.1,"end":543.1,"text":"現在不只中介"},{"start":543.1,"end":544.1,"text":"不只一般人"},{"start":544.1,"end":546.1,"text":"那如果我們所有的年輕人去"},{"start":546.1,"end":547.1,"text":"我跟你講"},{"start":547.1,"end":549.1,"text":"這個台灣的年輕人"},{"start":549.1,"end":550.1,"text":"他把你抓起來"},{"start":550.1,"end":552.1,"text":"然後他搞不好"},{"start":552.1,"end":555.1,"text":"是一個我們台灣半導體"},{"start":555.1,"end":557.1,"text":"優秀的工程師"},{"start":557.1,"end":559.1,"text":"他如果這樣把你一直騙去"},{"start":559.1,"end":561.1,"text":"然後把你扣個幾千個人起來"},{"start":561.1,"end":564.1,"text":"那我們的半導體也怎麼辦"},{"start":564.1,"end":565.1,"text":"委員講的對"},{"start":565.1,"end":567.1,"text":"包括國台辦"},{"start":567.1,"end":569.1,"text":"最近透過中國台灣網"},{"start":569.1,"end":572.1,"text":"經營的這個台親一家"},{"start":572.1,"end":575.1,"text":"過去他經營或是招攬我們年輕人去"},{"start":575.1,"end":577.1,"text":"還有中間在地協議者"},{"start":577.1,"end":578.1,"text":"這是直接"},{"start":578.1,"end":580.1,"text":"甚至要我們年輕人"},{"start":580.1,"end":581.1,"text":"上傳各種履歷表"},{"start":581.1,"end":582.1,"text":"幫你找工作"},{"start":582.1,"end":583.1,"text":"幫你實習"},{"start":583.1,"end":586.1,"text":"你到選群校交流"},{"start":586.1,"end":587.1,"text":"直接把資訊"},{"start":587.1,"end":589.1,"text":"年輕朋友的資訊"},{"start":589.1,"end":590.1,"text":"直接給國台辦"},{"start":590.1,"end":592.1,"text":"這是非常嚴重的事情"},{"start":592.1,"end":595.1,"text":"所以我們現在跟會從相關部會"},{"start":595.1,"end":597.1,"text":"做必要的下架"},{"start":597.1,"end":599.1,"text":"或者是屏蔽"},{"start":599.1,"end":602.1,"text":"因為這個對我們年輕朋友"},{"start":602.1,"end":604.1,"text":"提供他們的個資"},{"start":604.1,"end":605.1,"text":"除了有風險之外"},{"start":605.1,"end":607.1,"text":"這也是對台灣的"},{"start":607.1,"end":610.1,"text":"所以請他直接對於我們主權"},{"start":610.1,"end":613.1,"text":"或者是我們政府的直接介入"},{"start":613.1,"end":616.1,"text":"那這個不僅是個人的問題"},{"start":616.1,"end":620.1,"text":"而且是對整個國家法律的一個傷害"},{"start":620.1,"end":622.1,"text":"我們會迎述一對"},{"start":622.1,"end":624.1,"text":"積極的來處理這個事"},{"start":624.1,"end":625.1,"text":"要積極"},{"start":625.1,"end":626.1,"text":"不是"},{"start":626.1,"end":629.1,"text":"我不認為中國是這麼簡單"},{"start":629.1,"end":632.1,"text":"台灣的他如果吸引我們這些"},{"start":632.1,"end":635.1,"text":"他就針對我們半導體業"},{"start":635.1,"end":636.1,"text":"然後我們資訊業"},{"start":636.1,"end":638.1,"text":"要畢業的學生要什麼"},{"start":638.1,"end":640.1,"text":"可能在那裡有可能你"},{"start":640.1,"end":641.1,"text":"你一定要威脅利誘"},{"start":641.1,"end":644.1,"text":"或是找個藉口把你給關起來"},{"start":644.1,"end":647.1,"text":"慢慢的大家不知道"},{"start":647.1,"end":648.1,"text":"如果全部都被抓"},{"start":648.1,"end":649.1,"text":"全部都被抓"},{"start":649.1,"end":651.1,"text":"這會影響台灣的競爭力"},{"start":651.1,"end":652.1,"text":"這個我覺得"},{"start":652.1,"end":654.1,"text":"它影響國安的層級"},{"start":654.1,"end":656.1,"text":"我覺得我們要積極宣導一下"},{"start":656.1,"end":658.1,"text":"讓年輕人知道"},{"start":658.1,"end":661.1,"text":"也涉及到每個年輕朋友的資安問題"},{"start":661.1,"end":664.1,"text":"還有上當到可能涉及到危害我們國安"},{"start":664.1,"end":666.1,"text":"謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:43.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:45.242857+08:00","text":"我先請警政署署長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:45.242857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:52:52.733333+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:52:52.733333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:05.214286+08:00","text":"署長，我想請問一下，如果有名人的聲音、影像被用到詐騙，你們要怎麼處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:08.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:12+08:00","text":"如果是詐騙的訊息，我們當然會去追查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:12.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:27.371429+08:00","text":"我們會將影片下架，然後再去追查它的源頭到底是不是用深偽的方式來製作影片。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:28.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:36.900000+08:00","text":"再來是關於言論自由，如果在街上有人無緣無故罵你，這樣他有沒有言論自由？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:37.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:41.850000+08:00","text":"罵的話是不是牽涉到有侮辱、毀謗的行為……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:42.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:42.766667+08:00","text":"當然啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:43.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:47.827273+08:00","text":"如果有的話，倘若當事人提告就不是言論自由，言論自由也是要有法治。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:48.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:54.900000+08:00","text":"我是說有一個人在路上看到你就羞辱你、罵得很難聽……","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:55.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:56.100000+08:00","text":"他可以來告啊！誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:57.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:53:58.450000+08:00","text":"被罵的人可以來報案啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:53:58.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:01.100000+08:00","text":"我是說罵你。罵我？對。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:02.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:02.957143+08:00","text":"那我也可以去告啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:03.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:04.900000+08:00","text":"你認為他有言論自由嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:05.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:11+08:00","text":"我想被罵的話，如果是侮辱到我，牽涉到毀謗、侮辱，我當然有權利可以告啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:11.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:12.918182+08:00","text":"對嘛，這就不算言論自由了嘛！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:13.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:13.957143+08:00","text":"這不是言論自由。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:14.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:14.600000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:14.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:15.600000+08:00","text":"重點就在於這不是言論自由。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:16.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:24.850000+08:00","text":"所以如果用AI生成冒用人的影像或聲音，這有算言論自由嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:25.372727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:27.827273+08:00","text":"如果是用深偽的方式生成……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:29.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:29.766667+08:00","text":"對啊，當然啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:29.766667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:31.300000+08:00","text":"我說的就是造假的啊！","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:31.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:34.975000+08:00","text":"這可能牽涉到刑法偽造私文書的問題。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:35.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:35.850000+08:00","text":"沒有錯嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:37.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:42.975000+08:00","text":"而且也有可能變成商業犯罪或引誘人投資等等，很多情況都有吧！","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:43.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:43.850000+08:00","text":"都有可能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:45.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:51.600000+08:00","text":"所以在我們的法律規定裡面，沒有經過他人同意的話，其實這就構成犯罪了吧！是的。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:52.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:54:56.957143+08:00","text":"就像我說的這樣子，沒有經過當事人同意，這就構成犯罪了嘛！","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:54:57.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:02.946154+08:00","text":"是，因為如果是深偽、偽造的，偽造私文書是屬於公訴的範圍。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:03.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:11.877778+08:00","text":"對嘛，所以很多事情，我覺得署長你這樣就回答得很清楚，這還有什麼好說的呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:12.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:17.869231+08:00","text":"臺灣是一個法治的社會，我們不能這樣，如果以後這樣，臺灣會動盪不安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:18.463636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:31.766667+08:00","text":"我們也不用舉太多例子，很多名人、政商、重要的人如果都這樣的話，你覺得臺灣會有一個穩定的社會嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:32.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:32.957143+08:00","text":"你們警察會不會忙得要命？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"張署長榮興","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:33.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:42.028571+08:00","text":"如果用深偽的方式會造成一些混淆，所以這個部分未來也會去重視。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:43.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:44.433333+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:45.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:49.700000+08:00","text":"請陸委會主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:55.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:55:56.600000+08:00","text":"張委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:55:57.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:05.877778+08:00","text":"主委，現在到底有多少人在中國被無故留置？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:06.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:09.766667+08:00","text":"我看你們的報告是四百多人，四百出。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:10.433333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:12.100000+08:00","text":"這兩年加起來400。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:13.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:18.766667+08:00","text":"對，我問你實際上到底有多少？大概。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:21.766667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:35.100000+08:00","text":"遭陸方關押的目前有216人，這是在關押的，但失聯的我們陸續在找，但是在陸方被關押的、被他限制人身自由的有216人。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:36.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:38.814286+08:00","text":"有216人，是在最近兩年嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:39.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:39.975000+08:00","text":"還是從以前到現在。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:40.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:40.850000+08:00","text":"最近兩年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:41.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:56:52.100000+08:00","text":"最近兩年就216人，如果沒有講，很多臺灣人還不知道有這麼多人無故被關押吧？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:56:53.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:06.827273+08:00","text":"而且這幾年中國一直通過一些不合理的法令，如長臂管轄等等，造成很多的臺灣人去那邊無故被抓起來了吧？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:07.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:10.912500+08:00","text":"是，當然委員所說的推論都是合理的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:11.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:11.900000+08:00","text":"這是推論嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:13.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:13.900000+08:00","text":"這不是事實嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:14.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:31.918182+08:00","text":"要針對每個個案的關聯性，但是整體趨勢那麼多，我們剛剛也跟大家報告，每個月仍然有16到18件，每個月會增加，這確實是蠻驚人的，這裡面遭陸方關押的比例是最多。","quality":0.924},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:32.330769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:57:52.900000+08:00","text":"當然我們對於每個報案的人，比如說他家屬來報案，他親友來報案，我們都很想去協助他，在怎麼樣的因素下，或是在中國大陸犯了什麼法，這個部分如果陸方沒有相應的一個機制跟我們通報的話，家屬都會不知道怎麼辦。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:57:53.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:05.850000+08:00","text":"所以我們要關懷、協助，給他很多的法律諮詢，讓他有一個方向，但最重要的是我們要透過兩岸相關的機制，能夠把人確定下來，有確定的下落最重要。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:06.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:20.850000+08:00","text":"主委，這個是後續的處理，應該預防於先，中國現在用很多的方式鼓勵臺灣的人去或什麼的，你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:21.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:58:24.900000+08:00","text":"有很多是免費的旅行團，你們知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:58:25.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:59:01.900000+08:00","text":"是，我們很清楚，我們剛剛也報告了，中國大陸想盡辦法一直招攬我們的國人過去，不管是低價旅遊、免費招待、落地招待，找了我們很多年輕朋友、很多的國人、我們的村民、里民到中國大陸去旅遊，但是卻沒有給他人身安全的維護跟保護，那麼多的個案層出不窮，包括今天的報告，赴陸失聯的案子仍然有增加，顯示那邊確實是有風險。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T09:59:02.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:59:21.946154+08:00","text":"所以剛剛委員指導的是，我們應該防範於未然，應該要多做宣導，所以我們現在每個月……過去是每個月公布這些數字，我們為了提醒國人要注意，因為這個數字居高不下，所以我們是每一週都來做宣導。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:59:22.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:59:38.766667+08:00","text":"不是啦，主委，我覺得公布數字不痛不癢，也沒什麼啦，大家沒有感受，比如說我那時候就要求警政署，他每天在那邊反詐騙，誰不知道詐騙？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:59:39.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:59:42.700000+08:00","text":"但最新的詐騙型態是什麼，大家哪知道？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:59:43.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:59:54.554545+08:00","text":"後來要求他們要拍最新的詐騙方式的宣導影片，他們現在就做了，大家一看就知道現在最新的方式是什麼，那你們為什麼不也這樣學？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:59:55.671429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T09:59:58.850000+08:00","text":"那也不用成本，你放在網路上就好了，對不對？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T09:59:59.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:00:02.850000+08:00","text":"大家就看得懂，這樣大家才知道他是屬於哪一種，對不對？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:00:04.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:00:15.850000+08:00","text":"不然他也不知道，我相信一般人不知道，而且我要跟你講，他們現在也要我們年輕人去中國，你知道嗎？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:00:16.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:00:23.100000+08:00","text":"我們臺灣很多年輕人在網路上可能講了一句話，過去那邊有沒有可能被抓起來？是。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:00:24.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:00:24.900000+08:00","text":"有沒有可能？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:00:25.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:00:25.850000+08:00","text":"都有可能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:00:26.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:00:29.766667+08:00","text":"我們的年輕人，我們臺灣是言論自由的國家，對不對？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:00:30.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:00:33.242857+08:00","text":"有可能在網路上講一個，他的法律那麼多，隨便都有可能觸法。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:00:34.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:00:46.766667+08:00","text":"他又鼓勵我們臺灣的年輕人去那邊，要積極統戰，但我們的年輕人可能還有很多人不知道，如果年輕人過去就被抓起來了呢？","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:00:47.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:00:52.877778+08:00","text":"我的意思是說要有類似這一種短片，讓大家知道你去就有很高的風險。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:00:53.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:01:13.918182+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指導，我們也在落實這方面的宣導工作，第一個是要去識別化，但是就委員所說的樣態，我們去識別化，把那個樣態呈現出來，用短影片或是例行的記者會，不斷的對外去宣導，這是我們目前努力的工作。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:01:14.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:01:24.766667+08:00","text":"好啦，我覺得要這樣子，而且這短影片不用花多少錢，就放在你們網站，你就讓大家知道有哪一些，他是屬於哪些樣態的，就不能去，對不對？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:01:24.766667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:01:26.100000+08:00","text":"是，了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:01:26.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:01:33.850000+08:00","text":"他現在積極要我們臺灣的年輕人，像「台青e家」這種很多，一堆，我很擔心耶！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:01:34.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:01:55.827273+08:00","text":"現在不只宗教、不只一般人，如果我們所有的年輕人去了，我跟你講，他如果把臺灣的年輕人抓起來，這個年輕人搞不好是我們臺灣半導體一個優秀的工程師，如果他這樣把你一直騙去，扣你幾千個人起來，那我們的半導體業怎麼辦？","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:01:56.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:02:03.766667+08:00","text":"是，委員講的對，包括國台辦最近透過中國臺灣網經營「台青e家」。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:02:04.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:02:21.933333+08:00","text":"過去他經營或是招攬我們年輕人去，還有中間在地協力者，這是直接，甚至要我們年輕人上傳各種履歷表，要幫他找工作、幫他找實習，到選學校、交流，直接把年輕朋友的資訊給國台辦。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:02:22.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:02:30.700000+08:00","text":"這是非常嚴重的事情，所以我們也正在會同相關部會做必要的下架或者是屏蔽。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:02:32.463636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:02:44.850000+08:00","text":"我們的年輕朋友提供了他們的個資，除了有風險之外，這也是對臺灣遂行他直接對於我們主權或者是我們政府的直接介入。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:02:45.372727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:02:55.877778+08:00","text":"這個不僅是個人的問題，而且是對整個國家法益的傷害，我們會嚴肅以對，積極的來處理這個事。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:02:56.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:03:29.766667+08:00","text":"要積極，我不認為中國是這麼簡單，他如果去吸引我們這些，他就針對我們半導體業、資訊業、要畢業的學生等，可能會統戰，也有可能威脅利誘，或是找個藉口把他關起來，慢慢的、慢慢的，大家不知道，如果全部都被抓走，這會影響臺灣的競爭力，這會影響國安的層級，我覺得我們要積極宣導一下，讓年輕人知道。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:03:30.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:03:32.900000+08:00","text":"這也涉及到每個年輕朋友的資安問題。對。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:03:33.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:03:37.100000+08:00","text":"還有上綱到可能涉及到危害我們的國安，謝謝委員。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2026-07-29T10:03:37.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:03:38.600000+08:00","text":"對，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（許委員忠信代）","start":"2026-07-29T10:03:38.900000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:03:42.042857+08:00","text":"下一位請廖先翔委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":254,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（9時52分）我先請警政署署長。"],["張署長榮興：委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：署長，我想請問一下，如果有名人的聲音、影像被用到詐騙，你們要怎麼處理？"],["張署長榮興：如果是詐騙的訊息，我們當然會去追查。我們會將影片下架，然後再去追查它的源頭到底是不是用深偽的方式來製作影片。"],["張委員宏陸：再來是關於言論自由，如果在街上有人無緣無故罵你，這樣他有沒有言論自由？"],["張署長榮興：罵的話是不是牽涉到有侮辱、毀謗的行為……"],["張委員宏陸：當然啊！"],["張署長榮興：如果有的話，倘若當事人提告就不是言論自由，言論自由也是要有法治。"],["張委員宏陸：我是說有一個人在路上看到你就羞辱你、罵得很難聽……"],["張署長榮興：他可以來告啊！"],["張委員宏陸：誰？"],["張署長榮興：被罵的人可以來報案啊！"],["張委員宏陸：我是說罵你。"],["張署長榮興：罵我？"],["張委員宏陸：對。"],["張署長榮興：那我也可以去告啊！"],["張委員宏陸：你認為他有言論自由嗎？"],["張署長榮興：我想被罵的話，如果是侮辱到我，牽涉到毀謗、侮辱，我當然有權利可以告啊！"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛，這就不算言論自由了嘛！"],["張署長榮興：這不是言論自由。"],["張委員宏陸：對不對？重點就在於這不是言論自由。所以如果用AI生成冒用人的影像或聲音，這有算言論自由嗎？"],["張署長榮興：如果是用深偽的方式生成……"],["張委員宏陸：對啊，當然啊！我說的就是造假的啊！"],["張署長榮興：這可能牽涉到刑法偽造私文書的問題。"],["張委員宏陸：沒有錯嘛！而且也有可能變成商業犯罪或引誘人投資等等，很多情況都有吧！"],["張署長榮興：都有可能。"],["張委員宏陸：所以在我們的法律規定裡面，沒有經過他人同意的話，其實這就構成犯罪了吧！"],["張署長榮興：是的。"],["張委員宏陸：就像我說的這樣子，沒有經過當事人同意，這就構成犯罪了嘛！"],["張署長榮興：是，因為如果是深偽、偽造的，偽造私文書是屬於公訴的範圍。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛，所以很多事情，我覺得署長你這樣就回答得很清楚，這還有什麼好說的呢？臺灣是一個法治的社會，我們不能這樣，如果以後這樣，臺灣會動盪不安。我們也不用舉太多例子，很多名人、政商、重要的人如果都這樣的話，你覺得臺灣會有一個穩定的社會嗎？你們警察會不會忙得要命？"],["張署長榮興：如果用深偽的方式會造成一些混淆，所以這個部分未來也會去重視。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。請陸委會主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：張委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：主委，現在到底有多少人在中國被無故留置？我看你們的報告是四百多人，四百出。"],["邱主任委員垂正：這兩年加起來400。"],["張委員宏陸：對，我問你實際上到底有多少？大概。"],["邱主任委員垂正：遭陸方關押的目前有216人，這是在關押的，但失聯的我們陸續在找，但是在陸方被關押的、被他限制人身自由的有216人。"],["張委員宏陸：有216人，是在最近兩年嗎？還是從以前到現在。"],["邱主任委員垂正：最近兩年。"],["張委員宏陸：最近兩年就216人，如果沒有講，很多臺灣人還不知道有這麼多人無故被關押吧？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["張委員宏陸：而且這幾年中國一直通過一些不合理的法令，如長臂管轄等等，造成很多的臺灣人去那邊無故被抓起來了吧？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，當然委員所說的推論都是合理的。"],["張委員宏陸：這是推論嗎？這不是事實嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：要針對每個個案的關聯性，但是整體趨勢那麼多，我們剛剛也跟大家報告，每個月仍然有16到18件，每個月會增加，這確實是蠻驚人的，這裡面遭陸方關押的比例是最多。當然我們對於每個報案的人，比如說他家屬來報案，他親友來報案，我們都很想去協助他，在怎麼樣的因素下，或是在中國大陸犯了什麼法，這個部分如果陸方沒有相應的一個機制跟我們通報的話，家屬都會不知道怎麼辦。所以我們要關懷、協助，給他很多的法律諮詢，讓他有一個方向，但最重要的是我們要透過兩岸相關的機制，能夠把人確定下來，有確定的下落最重要。"],["張委員宏陸：主委，這個是後續的處理，應該預防於先，中國現在用很多的方式鼓勵臺灣的人去或什麼的，你知道嗎？有很多是免費的旅行團，你們知道嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們很清楚，我們剛剛也報告了，中國大陸想盡辦法一直招攬我們的國人過去，不管是低價旅遊、免費招待、落地招待，找了我們很多年輕朋友、很多的國人、我們的村民、里民到中國大陸去旅遊，但是卻沒有給他人身安全的維護跟保護，那麼多的個案層出不窮，包括今天的報告，赴陸失聯的案子仍然有增加，顯示那邊確實是有風險。所以剛剛委員指導的是，我們應該防範於未然，應該要多做宣導，所以我們現在每個月……過去是每個月公布這些數字，我們為了提醒國人要注意，因為這個數字居高不下，所以我們是每一週都來做宣導。"],["張委員宏陸：不是啦，主委，我覺得公布數字不痛不癢，也沒什麼啦，大家沒有感受，比如說我那時候就要求警政署，他每天在那邊反詐騙，誰不知道詐騙？但最新的詐騙型態是什麼，大家哪知道？後來要求他們要拍最新的詐騙方式的宣導影片，他們現在就做了，大家一看就知道現在最新的方式是什麼，那你們為什麼不也這樣學？那也不用成本，你放在網路上就好了，對不對？大家就看得懂，這樣大家才知道他是屬於哪一種，對不對？不然他也不知道，我相信一般人不知道，而且我要跟你講，他們現在也要我們年輕人去中國，你知道嗎？我們臺灣很多年輕人在網路上可能講了一句話，過去那邊有沒有可能被抓起來？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["張委員宏陸：有沒有可能？"],["邱主任委員垂正：都有可能。"],["張委員宏陸：我們的年輕人，我們臺灣是言論自由的國家，對不對？有可能在網路上講一個，他的法律那麼多，隨便都有可能觸法。他又鼓勵我們臺灣的年輕人去那邊，要積極統戰，但我們的年輕人可能還有很多人不知道，如果年輕人過去就被抓起來了呢？我的意思是說要有類似這一種短片，讓大家知道你去就有很高的風險。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員指導，我們也在落實這方面的宣導工作，第一個是要去識別化，但是就委員所說的樣態，我們去識別化，把那個樣態呈現出來，用短影片或是例行的記者會，不斷的對外去宣導，這是我們目前努力的工作。"],["張委員宏陸：好啦，我覺得要這樣子，而且這短影片不用花多少錢，就放在你們網站，你就讓大家知道有哪一些，他是屬於哪些樣態的，就不能去，對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，了解。"],["張委員宏陸：他現在積極要我們臺灣的年輕人，像「台青e家」這種很多，一堆，我很擔心耶！現在不只宗教、不只一般人，如果我們所有的年輕人去了，我跟你講，他如果把臺灣的年輕人抓起來，這個年輕人搞不好是我們臺灣半導體一個優秀的工程師，如果他這樣把你一直騙去，扣你幾千個人起來，那我們的半導體業怎麼辦？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，委員講的對，包括國台辦最近透過中國臺灣網經營「台青e家」。過去他經營或是招攬我們年輕人去，還有中間在地協力者，這是直接，甚至要我們年輕人上傳各種履歷表，要幫他找工作、幫他找實習，到選學校、交流，直接把年輕朋友的資訊給國台辦。這是非常嚴重的事情，所以我們也正在會同相關部會做必要的下架或者是屏蔽。我們的年輕朋友提供了他們的個資，除了有風險之外，這也是對臺灣遂行他直接對於我們主權或者是我們政府的直接介入。這個不僅是個人的問題，而且是對整個國家法益的傷害，我們會嚴肅以對，積極的來處理這個事。"],["張委員宏陸：要積極，我不認為中國是這麼簡單，他如果去吸引我們這些，他就針對我們半導體業、資訊業、要畢業的學生等，可能會統戰，也有可能威脅利誘，或是找個藉口把他關起來，慢慢的、慢慢的，大家不知道，如果全部都被抓走，這會影響臺灣的競爭力，這會影響國安的層級，我覺得我們要積極宣導一下，讓年輕人知道。"],["邱主任委員垂正：這也涉及到每個年輕朋友的資安問題。"],["張委員宏陸：對。"],["邱主任委員垂正：還有上綱到可能涉及到危害我們的國安，謝謝委員。"],["張委員宏陸：對，謝謝。"],["主席（許委員忠信代）：下一位請廖先翔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":156,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-15-20","speakers":["廖先翔","許忠信","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","王美惠","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","黃捷","李坤城","李柏毅","許宇甄","謝龍介","葉元之","翁曉玲","徐欣瑩","張智倫","高金素梅","吳宗憲","林德福"],"page_start":81,"meetingDate":["2026-07-29"],"gazette_id":"1156801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員、內政部部長、法務部、警政署、移民署、財團法人海峽交流基金\n會就「國人赴陸失聯情況及政府因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請內政部部長、警\n政署署長就「『萊爾校長』小編遭警突襲查水表事件，檢視警察執法標準與行政中立」進行專題\n報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156801_00010"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}