{"error":false,"id":["170742"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170742,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170742","日期":"2026-07-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-15-20","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":20,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-29T10:03:47+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-29T10:16:13+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:26","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/271ed4367c1fa464693b97002a04537c512edcc96882cdd163df940a37f6647d88bd0bdca8ae0fe95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"廖先翔","委員發言時間":"10:03:47 - 10:16:13","會議時間":"2026-07-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"(變更議程)立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員、內政部部長、法務部、警政署、移民署、財團法人海峽交流基金會就「國人赴陸失聯情況及政府因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請內政部部長、警政署署長就「『萊爾校長』小編遭警突襲查水表事件，檢視警察執法標準與行政中立」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":5.2115937500000005,"end":6.74721875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":13.547843750000002,"end":15.015968750000003,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":15.555968750000002,"end":17.12534375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":17.15909375,"end":17.19284375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":18.45846875,"end":19.75784375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":20.348468750000002,"end":24.938468750000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":25.05659375,"end":33.713468750000004,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":33.94971875,"end":36.78471875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":37.24034375,"end":40.91909375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":41.00346875,"end":42.572843750000004,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":43.11284375,"end":45.610343750000006,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":46.38659375,"end":50.28471875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":50.31846875,"end":60.83159375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.78596875,"end":56.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":61.50659375,"end":69.97784375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":70.04534375,"end":78.44909375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":79.10721875,"end":81.60471875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":82.02659375,"end":82.95471875000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":83.25846875,"end":94.96971875000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":95.15534375,"end":105.07784375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":105.80346875000001,"end":108.13221875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":108.50346875000001,"end":109.98846875000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":110.35971875000001,"end":112.40159375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":112.75596875000001,"end":115.32096875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":115.38846875,"end":126.94784375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.44284375000001,"end":119.30346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.45096875,"end":122.35784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.21846875000001,"end":125.95221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":127.25159375000001,"end":140.29596875000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.38659375,"end":129.04034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.04409375,"end":132.17909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.83721875,"end":133.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":140.36346875,"end":140.98784375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":141.22409375,"end":142.28721875000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":143.31659375,"end":143.89034375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":145.54409375,"end":156.05721875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.98596875,"end":155.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":156.15846875,"end":168.08909375000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.79971875,"end":157.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.68971875,"end":158.92596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.30534375000002,"end":161.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.79846875,"end":166.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":168.20721875,"end":181.63971875000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.39284375,"end":173.45534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":182.07846875,"end":190.39784375000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":191.27534375000002,"end":193.03034375000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":193.50284375,"end":208.72409375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.67784375000002,"end":208.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":208.85909375,"end":222.10596875000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.34846875000002,"end":209.43284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":222.69659375,"end":233.61471875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.04096875000002,"end":233.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":233.69909375,"end":251.36721875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.93909375,"end":237.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.33409375000002,"end":247.51971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":251.53596875000002,"end":305.14784375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.46284375,"end":264.42846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.99346875000003,"end":267.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":267.90471875000003,"end":270.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.19034375,"end":276.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.09596875,"end":289.09971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.51721875000004,"end":290.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.04034375000003,"end":291.54659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.80721875,"end":299.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.19909375000003,"end":302.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":305.41784375000003,"end":309.97409375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":310.80096875000004,"end":345.88409375000003,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":333.31221875,"end":333.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":335.75909375000003,"end":336.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.53846875000005,"end":343.70721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":346.42409375,"end":349.81596875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.85846875000004,"end":349.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":350.25471875,"end":351.58784375000005,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":352.17846875000004,"end":366.43784375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":358.96221875000003,"end":363.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":366.64034375,"end":383.02596875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":371.48346875000004,"end":376.93409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.81159375000004,"end":378.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":383.16096875000005,"end":416.77596875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.21159375,"end":384.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.45534375,"end":390.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.07534375,"end":393.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":398.33159375,"end":399.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.62221875,"end":402.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.92971875,"end":407.61284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.18596875000003,"end":414.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":417.23159375,"end":419.03721875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":419.32409375000003,"end":421.60221875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":421.85534375000003,"end":423.35721875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":423.79596875000004,"end":425.85471875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":426.68159375000005,"end":435.38909375000003,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":435.57471875000005,"end":435.92909375000005,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":436.82346875,"end":439.32096875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":439.42221875,"end":454.62659375000004,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":455.53784375000004,"end":462.05159375000005,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":462.13596875,"end":463.78971875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":464.11034375,"end":481.28909375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.17284375,"end":470.16846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.00346875,"end":473.54346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":481.42409375000005,"end":485.37284375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.75721875000005,"end":484.47846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":486.23346875000004,"end":503.85096875000005,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.55409375000005,"end":489.50721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":498.61971875,"end":498.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":504.13784375000006,"end":507.15846875000005,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":507.39471875000004,"end":510.12846875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":510.51659375,"end":515.52846875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":515.69721875,"end":541.3472187500001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.1297187499999,"end":533.5678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":534.22596875,"end":534.4284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":536.58846875,"end":536.8584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":541.4990937499999,"end":545.73471875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":545.92034375,"end":567.01409375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.5109687500001,"end":549.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.3078437500001,"end":551.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.2522187500001,"end":556.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":567.16596875,"end":579.8559687500001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":571.7053437500001,"end":574.5065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":580.22721875,"end":594.70596875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":587.0447187500001,"end":587.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":591.88784375,"end":593.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":595.0434687500001,"end":602.73846875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":603.2109687500001,"end":614.5847187500001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.0209687500001,"end":605.5903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":605.7590937500001,"end":607.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.8347187500001,"end":608.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":615.2765937500001,"end":628.84409375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":628.2534687500001,"end":628.5234687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":629.16471875,"end":629.58659375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":629.6372187500001,"end":631.1728437500001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":631.42596875,"end":632.52284375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":632.79284375,"end":635.08784375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":635.2565937500001,"end":638.5134687500001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":638.7834687500001,"end":643.23846875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":642.6984687500001,"end":643.1709687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":643.60971875,"end":644.7065937500001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":644.87534375,"end":646.4953437500001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":646.84971875,"end":647.72721875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":649.93784375,"end":650.24159375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":651.1359687500001,"end":652.0134687500001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":653.32971875,"end":666.52596875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":654.6628437500001,"end":655.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":656.04659375,"end":656.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":660.94034375,"end":661.5478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":663.5390937500001,"end":664.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.2140937500001,"end":664.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":667.55534375,"end":668.55096875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":669.1584687500001,"end":672.88784375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":673.6472187500001,"end":707.59971875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":704.6297187499999,"end":704.98409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.5534687500001,"end":706.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":708.0047187499999,"end":713.52284375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":708.03846875,"end":710.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":713.67471875,"end":716.74596875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":716.9822187500001,"end":717.45471875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":717.9609687500001,"end":727.19159375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.14659375,"end":719.74971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":727.5459687500002,"end":730.66784375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":730.2122187500001,"end":730.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":730.9209687500002,"end":735.3759687500001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"廖委員先翔","start":736.2703437499999,"end":746.2097187500001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.77159375,"end":742.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":743.47596875,"end":743.77971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":7,"text":"好 謝謝主席 麻煩邀請我們邱主委"},{"start":7,"end":16,"text":"主委早 每次都你來"},{"start":16,"end":25,"text":"剛剛其實在包括許中信委員的諮詢"},{"start":25,"end":30,"text":"其實許委員的政治立場 大家心裡大概都有個印象"},{"start":30,"end":33,"text":"包括我們陸委會最近一直在做一些"},{"start":33,"end":38,"text":"附陸交流或者是陸旅遊非常危險的一些宣傳"},{"start":38,"end":44,"text":"但是我們國人附陸的人數卻不斷的攀升"},{"start":44,"end":46,"text":"我覺得故中的原因"},{"start":46,"end":48,"text":"我覺得陸委會可以好好思考"},{"start":48,"end":50,"text":"我們到底是在做陸委會應該做的事情"},{"start":50,"end":54,"text":"還是單純在幫民進黨做意志形態的宣傳"},{"start":54,"end":56,"text":"我覺得您可以思考"},{"start":56,"end":59,"text":"我先跟您請教一個數學題"},{"start":59,"end":61,"text":"我們陸委會的資料"},{"start":61,"end":65,"text":"14年通報人數每月18人"},{"start":65,"end":68,"text":"那115年平均每月16人"},{"start":68,"end":71,"text":"這個看起來差不多啦"},{"start":71,"end":73,"text":"沒有明顯的上升 但也沒有明顯的下降"},{"start":73,"end":76,"text":"在統計學來說可能是誤差範圍內"},{"start":76,"end":83,"text":"但是我們附陸的人次14年整年度大概是323萬"},{"start":83,"end":87,"text":"那115年上半年1到6月大概就280萬了"},{"start":87,"end":91,"text":"那附陸的人次大概提升了25%左右"},{"start":91,"end":95,"text":"那在這個平均每月人數不變的情況下"},{"start":95,"end":99,"text":"但是母數也就是附陸人數增加的情況下"},{"start":99,"end":101,"text":"那這樣子通報人數的比例"},{"start":101,"end":103,"text":"今年是不是比去年還低"},{"start":103,"end":105,"text":"數學題喔 數學題"},{"start":105,"end":108,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":108,"end":110,"text":"如果是數學題的話"},{"start":110,"end":112,"text":"我們在疫情之前"},{"start":112,"end":114,"text":"我們去中國大陸的人"},{"start":114,"end":118,"text":"高達630萬"},{"start":118,"end":120,"text":"那時候我們還沒有通報這個系統嘛"},{"start":120,"end":123,"text":"我們也是歡迎大家通報"},{"start":123,"end":127,"text":"我們這兩年比較補成安全的案例不多"},{"start":127,"end":131,"text":"疫情前到2013年到2014年是增加的"},{"start":131,"end":133,"text":"沒關係 我就先照你的論述講"},{"start":133,"end":135,"text":"但是2014年到2015年"},{"start":135,"end":137,"text":"就是去年到今年"},{"start":137,"end":141,"text":"去年的這個附陸通報失聯的比例"},{"start":141,"end":143,"text":"是降低的沒錯吧"},{"start":143,"end":147,"text":"呃 比例 是吧"},{"start":147,"end":149,"text":"因為今年還沒有完喔"},{"start":149,"end":151,"text":"到目前為止嘛"},{"start":151,"end":153,"text":"平均當然是16"},{"start":153,"end":155,"text":"人數差不多嘛"},{"start":155,"end":157,"text":"去年是18就差不多"},{"start":157,"end":159,"text":"這個我想一個客觀的資訊"},{"start":159,"end":161,"text":"為什麼我剛剛會這樣子指控"},{"start":161,"end":162,"text":"你或許不認同"},{"start":162,"end":164,"text":"但是為什麼會這樣子指控"},{"start":164,"end":166,"text":"你們當成一個民進黨"},{"start":166,"end":170,"text":"政治的一個抗中保台的傳聲筒而已"},{"start":170,"end":172,"text":"這是我的指控"},{"start":172,"end":173,"text":"那你當然可以否認"},{"start":173,"end":175,"text":"那就是一些客觀的資訊"},{"start":175,"end":176,"text":"你們沒有去充分的一個接漏"},{"start":176,"end":178,"text":"比例其實是下降的"},{"start":178,"end":179,"text":"那當然不是說比例下降"},{"start":179,"end":180,"text":"就沒有風險"},{"start":180,"end":182,"text":"剛剛主委講任何一個人"},{"start":182,"end":183,"text":"有發生的事情"},{"start":183,"end":185,"text":"都是一個家庭的重大的負擔或者破碎"},{"start":185,"end":186,"text":"這我認同啦"},{"start":186,"end":191,"text":"那我來看一下我們的統計案件的"},{"start":191,"end":193,"text":"這個案件的類型統計啦"},{"start":193,"end":197,"text":"招限制人身自由大概就是超過一半嘛"},{"start":197,"end":199,"text":"那其中大部分都是知道原因的"},{"start":199,"end":202,"text":"涉嫌詐騙案件134"},{"start":202,"end":204,"text":"其他刑事案件158人"},{"start":204,"end":206,"text":"這些都是很明確的去觸犯到"},{"start":206,"end":208,"text":"當地的法律可能跟政治無關"},{"start":208,"end":209,"text":"是是"},{"start":209,"end":211,"text":"那所以說我們如果會把這個統計進來"},{"start":211,"end":214,"text":"你是認為到一個國家或者是地區"},{"start":214,"end":215,"text":"去犯罪"},{"start":215,"end":218,"text":"比如說詐騙或者是涉及刑事案件"},{"start":218,"end":220,"text":"被當地的司法部門關押"},{"start":220,"end":222,"text":"就叫做風險嗎"},{"start":222,"end":224,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":224,"end":226,"text":"這些在中國大陸"},{"start":226,"end":228,"text":"像今天的主題叫私聯"},{"start":228,"end":230,"text":"像第一類的通報私聯"},{"start":230,"end":232,"text":"這個你還不至於"},{"start":232,"end":233,"text":"我們等一下再討論"},{"start":233,"end":235,"text":"這個私聯的數字"},{"start":235,"end":236,"text":"在這幾個月明顯升高"},{"start":236,"end":237,"text":"我就問你"},{"start":237,"end":240,"text":"我們把詐騙涉及刑事案件統計進來了"},{"start":240,"end":242,"text":"是不是你也認為到一個國家一個地區"},{"start":242,"end":243,"text":"我們今天不能不講大陸"},{"start":243,"end":245,"text":"到日本到美國"},{"start":245,"end":248,"text":"我們因為詐騙或涉及其他刑事案件"},{"start":248,"end":250,"text":"被關押也叫做旅遊風險嗎"},{"start":250,"end":251,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":251,"end":253,"text":"包括我剛剛的報告"},{"start":253,"end":255,"text":"還有內政部的報告"},{"start":255,"end":256,"text":"就是說中國大陸"},{"start":256,"end":259,"text":"制定了非常多國家安全的法律"},{"start":259,"end":260,"text":"那我們"},{"start":260,"end":262,"text":"詐騙是國家安全嗎"},{"start":262,"end":264,"text":"其他刑事案件"},{"start":264,"end":267,"text":"其他刑事案件也多達58例"},{"start":267,"end":268,"text":"對啊"},{"start":268,"end":270,"text":"還有包括宗教的13億"},{"start":270,"end":272,"text":"那這個可能都是涉及"},{"start":272,"end":274,"text":"觸犯了中國大陸剛制定的"},{"start":274,"end":276,"text":"這些國家安全法律"},{"start":276,"end":278,"text":"但你明確的寫國安的就一人嗎"},{"start":278,"end":279,"text":"沒有"},{"start":279,"end":281,"text":"其他的涉及宗教或其他刑事的"},{"start":281,"end":282,"text":"都有可能"},{"start":282,"end":285,"text":"因為他是用各種的刑法來判"},{"start":285,"end":286,"text":"所以"},{"start":286,"end":287,"text":"各個部分是有"},{"start":287,"end":289,"text":"我建議你要涉及到剛剛"},{"start":289,"end":291,"text":"可能包括你們陸委會或內政部"},{"start":291,"end":293,"text":"條例的什麼反獨22條"},{"start":293,"end":295,"text":"什麼之類的反國家分類法的"},{"start":295,"end":296,"text":"這當然是國安案件啊"},{"start":296,"end":298,"text":"那我就統計到國安案件"},{"start":298,"end":299,"text":"你怎麼用在其他刑事案件"},{"start":299,"end":300,"text":"他的歸屬"},{"start":300,"end":301,"text":"他放在他的友辦"},{"start":301,"end":303,"text":"或者是宗教案件"},{"start":303,"end":305,"text":"你會覺得去"},{"start":305,"end":306,"text":"這個"},{"start":306,"end":307,"text":"不要講伊朗好了"},{"start":307,"end":308,"text":"這個不可能"},{"start":308,"end":309,"text":"大家認為比較獨裁極權國家"},{"start":309,"end":310,"text":"到"},{"start":310,"end":312,"text":"沙烏地阿拉伯其實也是啦"},{"start":312,"end":313,"text":"其實也是"},{"start":313,"end":314,"text":"你會"},{"start":314,"end":315,"text":"我們的外交部會認為說"},{"start":315,"end":316,"text":"到沙烏地阿拉伯"},{"start":316,"end":319,"text":"去做這個基督教或"},{"start":319,"end":320,"text":"簽署教的傳教"},{"start":320,"end":322,"text":"因此受到司法的調查"},{"start":322,"end":324,"text":"叫做旅遊風險嗎"},{"start":324,"end":325,"text":"是"},{"start":325,"end":326,"text":"客廳委員報告"},{"start":326,"end":327,"text":"您剛剛提到的宗教案件"},{"start":327,"end":328,"text":"目前23件都是用"},{"start":328,"end":330,"text":"中共刑法300條來判"},{"start":330,"end":333,"text":"所以他就統統納入到這個刑事"},{"start":333,"end":334,"text":"對"},{"start":334,"end":335,"text":"就是說這個就是當地國家的"},{"start":335,"end":336,"text":"一個法令"},{"start":336,"end":337,"text":"這可能跟剛剛我們"},{"start":337,"end":338,"text":"條列式的"},{"start":338,"end":339,"text":"懲讀22條"},{"start":339,"end":341,"text":"或者是反國家分裂法"},{"start":341,"end":342,"text":"或者是你們講的"},{"start":342,"end":344,"text":"民族團結法等等的"},{"start":344,"end":346,"text":"有關係嗎"},{"start":346,"end":348,"text":"我們正在看這些法令"},{"start":348,"end":350,"text":"所以才回到為什麼"},{"start":350,"end":352,"text":"為什麼國人不買單"},{"start":352,"end":354,"text":"為什麼附陸的人數還是增加"},{"start":354,"end":355,"text":"因為他們沒有把我們陸委會"},{"start":355,"end":356,"text":"他們認為我們陸委會"},{"start":356,"end":357,"text":"沒有在做正事"},{"start":357,"end":359,"text":"我們所公布的一個訊息"},{"start":359,"end":360,"text":"都是在超過一些"},{"start":360,"end":362,"text":"我們在陳平時候"},{"start":362,"end":364,"text":"去中國大陸"},{"start":364,"end":366,"text":"我們國人附陸是超過600萬"},{"start":366,"end":368,"text":"那現在您剛剛說的"},{"start":368,"end":369,"text":"只有323萬"},{"start":369,"end":370,"text":"還是有很多人"},{"start":370,"end":372,"text":"是有一些疑慮"},{"start":372,"end":374,"text":"不過要跟委員報告的是"},{"start":374,"end":376,"text":"我們這些統計"},{"start":376,"end":378,"text":"是其他刑事案件"},{"start":378,"end":380,"text":"我們這些案件的統計"},{"start":380,"end":382,"text":"並不是委員說的"},{"start":382,"end":384,"text":"阻止交流"},{"start":384,"end":386,"text":"在抗中保財"},{"start":386,"end":387,"text":"這不是這個原因"},{"start":387,"end":389,"text":"我們只是讓國人"},{"start":389,"end":390,"text":"你跟國人說"},{"start":390,"end":391,"text":"你因為去那邊大陸"},{"start":391,"end":395,"text":"附陸人身安全的趨勢風險是高的"},{"start":395,"end":396,"text":"你要你去"},{"start":396,"end":399,"text":"因為我們的憲法不會限制國人去"},{"start":399,"end":402,"text":"但是你去你要知道這個風險高"},{"start":402,"end":403,"text":"你不要想直接一點"},{"start":403,"end":404,"text":"去大陸不能做詐騙"},{"start":404,"end":405,"text":"不然會被關"},{"start":405,"end":406,"text":"會不會被抓"},{"start":406,"end":408,"text":"你要聽重當地定的法律"},{"start":408,"end":410,"text":"但是當地的法律也有很多"},{"start":410,"end":413,"text":"很容易被刑事"},{"start":413,"end":415,"text":"關心的涉國安案件"},{"start":415,"end":417,"text":"我不曉得您可不可以在這邊做說明"},{"start":417,"end":419,"text":"這些國安案件我覺得是"},{"start":419,"end":421,"text":"最符合我們剛講的一些"},{"start":421,"end":423,"text":"他們近期的修法"},{"start":423,"end":425,"text":"您能夠做一些說明嗎"},{"start":425,"end":426,"text":"還是不方便"},{"start":426,"end":429,"text":"這一件因為家屬的緣故"},{"start":429,"end":431,"text":"我可以私底下去跟你說明"},{"start":431,"end":432,"text":"不方便公開講"},{"start":432,"end":434,"text":"那我想其實為什麼網路上"},{"start":434,"end":435,"text":"有大家很多的言語"},{"start":435,"end":438,"text":"因為最近的這麼多的通報案件"},{"start":438,"end":442,"text":"402件都沒有家屬出來開記者會"},{"start":442,"end":444,"text":"或者去找一些國際的人權團體"},{"start":444,"end":445,"text":"去做聲援"},{"start":445,"end":447,"text":"這過去我們可以看到很多"},{"start":447,"end":448,"text":"包括李明哲案"},{"start":448,"end":449,"text":"包括副查案"},{"start":449,"end":451,"text":"因為政治案件附錄"},{"start":451,"end":452,"text":"而遭到到不法"},{"start":452,"end":455,"text":"司法調查或羈押的案件"},{"start":455,"end":457,"text":"媒體報導非常的多"},{"start":457,"end":459,"text":"為什麼這402件都沒有"},{"start":459,"end":460,"text":"那就是大家在懷疑"},{"start":460,"end":462,"text":"這402件到底是什麼"},{"start":462,"end":464,"text":"大家攤開來一看"},{"start":464,"end":466,"text":"詐騙其他刑事案件"},{"start":466,"end":469,"text":"我們當作附錄交流的一個風險"},{"start":469,"end":470,"text":"謝謝 也謝謝"},{"start":470,"end":471,"text":"現在就是大家"},{"start":471,"end":473,"text":"我們這個陸委會的一些"},{"start":473,"end":474,"text":"剛剛的說法"},{"start":474,"end":475,"text":"我覺得很重要"},{"start":475,"end":477,"text":"為什麼家屬沒有出來"},{"start":477,"end":479,"text":"我覺得很多的家屬"},{"start":479,"end":481,"text":"都是擔心他的家人還在大陸"},{"start":481,"end":483,"text":"他如果出來的話"},{"start":483,"end":484,"text":"李明哲就不擔心嗎"},{"start":484,"end":486,"text":"副查就不擔心嗎"},{"start":486,"end":488,"text":"過去大家都很喜歡講"},{"start":488,"end":490,"text":"希望受到國際社會給壓力"},{"start":490,"end":493,"text":"現在突然國際社會不給壓力了嗎"},{"start":493,"end":494,"text":"不幫忙了嗎"},{"start":494,"end":497,"text":"有些是我們要尊重家屬"},{"start":497,"end":499,"text":"跟當事人的意願"},{"start":499,"end":501,"text":"當然我尊重這樣的說法"},{"start":501,"end":502,"text":"我沒辦法求證"},{"start":502,"end":503,"text":"我沒辦法求證"},{"start":503,"end":504,"text":"那我相信你們也不會偽造資料"},{"start":504,"end":506,"text":"但是裡面的案件內情"},{"start":506,"end":508,"text":"可以認為可以討論的地方"},{"start":508,"end":510,"text":"是非常的多"},{"start":510,"end":512,"text":"國務委員我要跟你們報告"},{"start":512,"end":515,"text":"您的質疑我們有兩點"},{"start":515,"end":518,"text":"第一個我們還是要提醒國人風險"},{"start":518,"end":519,"text":"畢竟這個案例"},{"start":519,"end":522,"text":"或是他來跟我們報案的數字"},{"start":522,"end":523,"text":"居高不下"},{"start":523,"end":525,"text":"第二個是重點"},{"start":525,"end":527,"text":"就是我們要促使中共當局"},{"start":527,"end":529,"text":"落實相關機制"},{"start":529,"end":530,"text":"我支持"},{"start":530,"end":532,"text":"有法律法通報"},{"start":532,"end":534,"text":"要通報"},{"start":534,"end":536,"text":"要尊重他們的司法人權"},{"start":536,"end":537,"text":"但是我目前看不出來"},{"start":537,"end":538,"text":"剛剛我們講了"},{"start":538,"end":540,"text":"因為我們修了很多的法令"},{"start":540,"end":542,"text":"大陸修了很多的法令"},{"start":542,"end":544,"text":"告訴大家附陸費大的風險"},{"start":544,"end":546,"text":"但就我目前來看可能就是"},{"start":546,"end":548,"text":"因為有些人國安檢"},{"start":548,"end":550,"text":"然後我們就把他講的"},{"start":550,"end":551,"text":"下落還沒定"},{"start":551,"end":552,"text":"很可怕"},{"start":552,"end":553,"text":"包括四年的"},{"start":553,"end":555,"text":"包括其他的刑法涉及的"},{"start":555,"end":558,"text":"有關這個統計"},{"start":558,"end":561,"text":"就402的總統機案件是"},{"start":561,"end":563,"text":"113到115"},{"start":563,"end":564,"text":"那這個是現況嗎"},{"start":564,"end":567,"text":"還是過程當中已經有人找到了"},{"start":567,"end":568,"text":"跟我們報告"},{"start":568,"end":571,"text":"其實他實際的狀況都不大在改變"},{"start":571,"end":573,"text":"畢竟有的一定回來的"},{"start":573,"end":575,"text":"現在有的有些私聯人數"},{"start":575,"end":576,"text":"或者是還在遭自由盤查"},{"start":576,"end":578,"text":"或者是仍然遭到關押的人數"},{"start":578,"end":580,"text":"你現在可以提供資料嗎"},{"start":580,"end":583,"text":"這個部分我們還會再進一步統計"},{"start":583,"end":584,"text":"因為我們只是針對"},{"start":584,"end":586,"text":"當事後報案的情況"},{"start":586,"end":587,"text":"做一些整結"},{"start":587,"end":588,"text":"那你怎麼會當初報案"},{"start":588,"end":590,"text":"如果說你有做事後的追蹤去找"},{"start":590,"end":592,"text":"你應該要知道現況有多少"},{"start":592,"end":594,"text":"你怎麼知道有報到人"},{"start":594,"end":595,"text":"我們會有"},{"start":595,"end":597,"text":"只不過我們要突出一個事實"},{"start":597,"end":599,"text":"第一個呼籲國人要注意"},{"start":599,"end":601,"text":"這個明顯風險是提升的"},{"start":601,"end":604,"text":"第二個還是要讓對岸知道"},{"start":604,"end":606,"text":"我希望我們要發揮既有的結果"},{"start":606,"end":608,"text":"公開的資料也把現況"},{"start":608,"end":610,"text":"私聯到底現在有多少人是私聯"},{"start":610,"end":612,"text":"如果說我們把中華民國"},{"start":612,"end":614,"text":"這幾年來私聯的人數都統計下來"},{"start":614,"end":617,"text":"去年就2萬3了"},{"start":617,"end":619,"text":"對不對比這個比例還高"},{"start":619,"end":621,"text":"萬分之一比這個比例還高"},{"start":621,"end":623,"text":"難道就真的2萬3千人不見了"},{"start":623,"end":624,"text":"會有找到的嗎"},{"start":624,"end":626,"text":"實際上現在還有多少人是找不到的"},{"start":626,"end":627,"text":"還是什麼情況"},{"start":627,"end":629,"text":"我覺得這應該也要公告"},{"start":629,"end":630,"text":"好不好"},{"start":630,"end":634,"text":"那另外很多人都說到大陸很危險"},{"start":634,"end":635,"text":"除了可能被關押之外"},{"start":635,"end":637,"text":"可能有活摘器官的問題"},{"start":637,"end":639,"text":"有沒有收到通報過"},{"start":639,"end":640,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":640,"end":644,"text":"我們一直現在的旅遊警示維持宣示"},{"start":644,"end":645,"text":"對我知道宣示"},{"start":645,"end":648,"text":"有沒有人通報被活摘器官的"},{"start":651,"end":653,"text":"你以前有收到過嗎"},{"start":653,"end":655,"text":"我們沒有收到這個"},{"start":655,"end":656,"text":"沒有收到過"},{"start":656,"end":658,"text":"有人都非常的擔心"},{"start":658,"end":661,"text":"希望未來也是把它揭露出來"},{"start":661,"end":662,"text":"如果有的話"},{"start":662,"end":663,"text":"我也會很擔心"},{"start":663,"end":664,"text":"大家都會很擔心"},{"start":664,"end":666,"text":"那最後抱歉沒時間了"},{"start":666,"end":669,"text":"我覺得我不希望我們"},{"start":669,"end":671,"text":"兩岸當然是現在的關係怎麼樣"},{"start":671,"end":673,"text":"有些是政治的問題"},{"start":673,"end":676,"text":"我會說可能馬英九時代"},{"start":676,"end":677,"text":"為什麼可以不用兵兇戰壕"},{"start":677,"end":678,"text":"為什麼現在民眾的時代"},{"start":678,"end":680,"text":"但有些這個就會變成政治的吵架"},{"start":680,"end":682,"text":"但是我不希望我們陸委會"},{"start":682,"end":683,"text":"變成一個放羊的孩子"},{"start":683,"end":685,"text":"兩岸當然是有風險的"},{"start":685,"end":687,"text":"但是我們不斷的去傳輸一些"},{"start":687,"end":690,"text":"過大的可能不夠周全的資訊"},{"start":690,"end":694,"text":"或者是蓄意堆出來的風險的時候"},{"start":694,"end":695,"text":"當國人忽視了"},{"start":695,"end":697,"text":"未來真的有風險發生的時候"},{"start":697,"end":698,"text":"那時候我們的陸委會"},{"start":698,"end":699,"text":"就變成放羊的孩子了"},{"start":699,"end":701,"text":"不會有人在乎"},{"start":701,"end":703,"text":"或者是重視我們陸委會"},{"start":703,"end":704,"text":"所發布的一個警訊"},{"start":704,"end":705,"text":"我也希望說陸委會"},{"start":705,"end":707,"text":"你身為一個主任委員"},{"start":707,"end":708,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":708,"end":709,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":709,"end":710,"text":"不要變成放羊的孩子"},{"start":710,"end":711,"text":"跟您報告"},{"start":711,"end":713,"text":"兩岸關係可能跌宕起伏"},{"start":713,"end":716,"text":"但是我們的政策重中之重"},{"start":716,"end":719,"text":"還是重視國人的安危"},{"start":719,"end":720,"text":"我希望未來真的風險巨生的時候"},{"start":720,"end":722,"text":"我們陸委會所提出的風險"},{"start":722,"end":723,"text":"不會再被國人忽視"},{"start":723,"end":724,"text":"而不是現在什麼都"},{"start":724,"end":725,"text":"丟什麼訊息出來的時候"},{"start":725,"end":727,"text":"大家都當作一個反應"},{"start":727,"end":729,"text":"反後消遣聊天的一個話題而已"},{"start":729,"end":730,"text":"這不消遣"},{"start":730,"end":732,"text":"我們2017年像李明哲事件"},{"start":732,"end":735,"text":"那時候我們看到相關案件很少"},{"start":735,"end":738,"text":"我們用全國都在關心李明哲"},{"start":738,"end":741,"text":"結果現在有402件類似的案件"},{"start":741,"end":743,"text":"李明哲都做大片"},{"start":743,"end":744,"text":"李明哲都做大片"},{"start":744,"end":745,"text":"就這樣謝謝主委"},{"start":745,"end":746,"text":"謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:03:47.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:03:53.500000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩請邱主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:03:53.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:03:54.500000+08:00","text":"廖委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:03:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:04:01.875000+08:00","text":"主委早安，每次都是你來。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:04:04.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:04:16.761905+08:00","text":"好啦，其實包括許忠信委員的質詢，其實許委員的政治立場，大家心裡大概都有個印象。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:04:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:04:34.833333+08:00","text":"包括我們陸委會最近一直在做一些赴陸交流或者是赴陸旅遊非常危險的一些宣傳，但是我們國人赴陸的人數卻不斷的攀升，這其中的原因，我覺得陸委會可以好好思考。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:04:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:04:42.750000+08:00","text":"我們到底是在做陸委會應該做的事情，還是單純在幫民進黨做意識型態的宣傳，我覺得您可以思考。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:04:42.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:04:43.750000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:04:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:05:17.714286+08:00","text":"我先跟您請教一個數學題，我們陸委會的資料顯示114年的通報人數每月18人，115年平均每月16人，看起來是差不多，沒有明顯上升，也沒有明顯下降，以統計學來說，可能是誤差範圍內；但是我們赴陸人次部分，114年整年度大概是323萬，115年上半年1到6月就有285萬，赴陸人次大概提升了25%左右。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:05:18.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:05:29.800000+08:00","text":"在平均每月人數不變，但是母數，也就是赴陸人次增加的情況下，這樣子通報人數的比率，今年是不是比去年還低？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:05:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:05:30.857143+08:00","text":"這是數學題喔！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:05:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:05:43.666667+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，如果是數學題的話，在疫情之前，我們去中國大陸的人高達630萬到650萬……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:05:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:05:46.866667+08:00","text":"那時候還沒有這個通報系統嘛！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:05:46.866667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:05:47.866667+08:00","text":"我們在這兩年……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:05:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:05:49.700000+08:00","text":"我們也是歡迎大家通報……","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:05:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:05:51.500000+08:00","text":"我們這兩年比較鼓吹通報嘛！","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:05:52.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:05:53.750000+08:00","text":"那個時候人身安全的案例不多，比如2017年……","quality":0.438},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:05:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:13.200000+08:00","text":"疫情前到113年、114年是增加的，沒關係，我就先照你的論述來講，但是114年到115年，就是去年到今年，今年赴陸通報失聯的比率是降低的，沒錯吧！比率……是吧！","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:15.555556+08:00","text":"因為今年還沒有過完……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:17.666667+08:00","text":"到目前為止嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:17.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:20+08:00","text":"如果是平均，今年是16、去年是18。","quality":0.273},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:21.333333+08:00","text":"人數差不多，但母數不一樣了。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:23.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:23.714286+08:00","text":"差不多，每個月不同。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:27.833333+08:00","text":"這是一個客觀的資訊，為什麼我剛剛會這樣子指控？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:30.818182+08:00","text":"你或許不認同，但是為什麼會這樣子指控？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:32.777778+08:00","text":"你們單純當作民進黨……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:32.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:33.777778+08:00","text":"我們歡迎委員指導。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:36.733333+08:00","text":"一個政治、抗中保臺的傳聲筒而已。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:36.733333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:37.733333+08:00","text":"我們沒有抗中保臺。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:39.875000+08:00","text":"這是我的指控，你當然可以否認。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:40.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:44.750000+08:00","text":"一些客觀的資訊你們沒有去充分揭露，比率其實是下降的。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:45.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:06:52.600000+08:00","text":"當然不是比率下降就沒有風險，剛剛主委也講，任何一個人有發生事情都是一個家庭的重大負擔或者破碎，這我認同。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:06:53.357143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:07:15+08:00","text":"我們看一下案件類型的統計，遭限制人身自由大概就超過一半，其中大部分都是知道原因的，涉嫌詐騙案件134人、其他涉刑事案件58人，這些都是很明確地觸犯到當地的法律，可能跟政治無關。是。","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:07:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:07:28.666667+08:00","text":"陸委會把這個統計進來，您是認為到一個國家或者地區去犯罪，比如詐騙或是涉及刑事案件而被當地的司法部門關押就叫做風險嗎？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:07:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:07:38.714286+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這些在中國大陸……像今天的主題叫「失聯」，但像第一類的通報失聯，這個還不至於……","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:07:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:07:39.875000+08:00","text":"這個我們等一下再討論。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:07:40.857143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:07:42.888889+08:00","text":"失聯的數字在這幾個月明顯升高。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:07:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:07:56.818182+08:00","text":"我就問你，你們把詐騙、涉及刑事案件也統計進來，是不是你也認為到一個國家、一個地區，我們今天先不講大陸，如果到日本、到美國，有人因為詐騙或涉及其他刑事案件而被關押，這樣也叫做旅遊風險嗎？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:07:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:08:06.666667+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，包括我剛剛的報告及內政部的報告都提到，中國大陸制定了非常多國家安全的法律，我們……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:08:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:08:08.750000+08:00","text":"對，詐騙啊，詐騙是國家安全嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:08:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:08:10.666667+08:00","text":"其他刑事案件有國家安全嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:08:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:08:14.500000+08:00","text":"其他刑事案件也多達58例……對啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:08:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:08:16.500000+08:00","text":"還有包括宗教的有23例。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:08:16.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:08:17.500000+08:00","text":"但有明確的國安……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:08:17.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:08:22.750000+08:00","text":"這個可能都是涉及觸犯中國大陸剛制定的這些國家安全法律。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:08:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:08:24.692308+08:00","text":"但有明確寫國安的就1人嘛！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:08:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:08:33.833333+08:00","text":"沒有，其他涉及宗教或刑事的都有可能，因為他是用各種的刑法來判，所以這個部分是有，然後失聯的也很多。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:08:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:08:45.909091+08:00","text":"我建議只要涉及到剛剛陸委會或內政部條列的反獨22條、反分裂國家法的，這當然是國安案件，那就統計到國安案件，你們怎麼用在其他刑事案件？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:08:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:08:47.285714+08:00","text":"沒有，關於他的歸屬，他放在有關違反刑事……","quality":0.412},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:08:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:09:10.714286+08:00","text":"或者是宗教案件，你會覺得去……不要講伊朗好了，這個可能大家認為是比較獨裁極權的國家，到沙烏地阿拉伯……其實也是，我們的外交部會認為到沙烏地阿拉伯去做基督教或天主教的傳教而因此受到司法調查叫做旅遊風險嗎？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:09:12.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:09:19.769231+08:00","text":"跟廖委員報告，你剛剛提到的宗教案件，目前的23件都是用中共刑法第三百條來判，所以都通通納入到刑事……","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:09:21.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:09:28.857143+08:00","text":"這個就是當地國家的法令，這可能跟剛剛我們條列式的懲獨22條或反分裂國家法，或者是你們講的……","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:09:28.857143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:09:29.857143+08:00","text":"民族團結進步……","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:09:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:09:32.500000+08:00","text":"民族團結法等等的有關係嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:09:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:09:34.555556+08:00","text":"我們正在看這些法律……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:09:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:09:40.833333+08:00","text":"所以才回到為什麼國人不買單、為什麼赴陸人數還是增加？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:09:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:09:46.285714+08:00","text":"因為他們認為陸委會沒有在做正事，你們所公布的訊息都是在政治操作而已。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:09:47.571429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:00.800000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在承平時候，我們國人赴陸是超過600萬人，而現在，您剛剛說的只有323萬，還是很多人有一些疑慮，不過我要跟委員報告的是……","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:04.714286+08:00","text":"沒關係，至少我剛剛確認了，比率是下降的，多數是其他刑事案件。","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:15.714286+08:00","text":"我們這些案件的統計並不是委員說的在阻止交流、在抗中保臺，都不是這個原意，我們只是讓國人了解……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:15.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:17.875000+08:00","text":"你們是跟國人說他們去那邊詐騙會被關很危險，不要去詐騙，是這樣嗎？","quality":0.276},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:17.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:28.769231+08:00","text":"他們赴陸的人身安全的趨勢風險是高的，因為我們的憲法不會限制國人去，但是去了要知道風險高。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:33+08:00","text":"你可以講直接一點，去大陸不能做詐騙，不然會被關、會被抓，你可以講直接一點嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:33.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:38.500000+08:00","text":"這也是一個，他們要尊重當地的法律，但是當地的法律也有很多很容易被繩之以法的。","quality":0.629},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:43.866667+08:00","text":"我最關心的是涉國安案件，我不曉得您可不可以在這邊做說明？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:51.777778+08:00","text":"這一件國安案件，我覺得是最符合我們剛剛講的他們近期的修法，您能夠做一些說明嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:52.800000+08:00","text":"還是不方便？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:57.818182+08:00","text":"這一件因為家屬的緣故，我可以私底下跟你說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:10:58.833333+08:00","text":"好，不方便公開講嘛！是。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:10:59.909091+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:11:01.625000+08:00","text":"為什麼網路上有大家很多的揶揄？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:11:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:11:23.750000+08:00","text":"因為最近這麼多的通報案件，402件都沒有家屬出來開記者會或者去找一些國際人權團體做聲援，這過去我們可以看到很多，包括李明哲案、富察案，因為政治案件，赴陸而遭受不法司法調查或羈押的案件，媒體報導非常多啊！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:11:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:11:39.800000+08:00","text":"但為什麼這402件都沒有，那就是大家在懷疑這402件到底是什麼，結果大家攤開一看，詐騙、其他刑事案件被你們當作赴陸交流的風險，我覺得這就是大家對陸委會的一些不理解。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:11:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:11:43.777778+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，委員剛剛的說法，我覺得很重要，為什麼家屬沒有出來？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:11:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:11:49.714286+08:00","text":"我覺得很多家屬都是擔心他的家人還在大陸，他如果出來的話，會不會增加他的風險？","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:11:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:11:50.875000+08:00","text":"李明哲就不擔心嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:11:51.571429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:11:52.714286+08:00","text":"富察就不擔心嗎？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:11:52.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:11:53.714286+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:11:53.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:11:54.714286+08:00","text":"李明哲的家屬我們理解……","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:11:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:11:59.785714+08:00","text":"過去大家都會出來講，希望透過國際社會給壓力，現在突然國際社會不給壓力了嗎？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:00.800000+08:00","text":"不幫忙了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:00.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:01.800000+08:00","text":"不會吧！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:05.714286+08:00","text":"有些事我們要尊重家屬跟當事人的意願，事實上……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:08.833333+08:00","text":"當然我尊重這樣的說法，我沒辦法求證嘛！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:10.076923+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:16.600000+08:00","text":"我相信你們也不會偽造資料，但是裡面的案件類型，大家就會認為可以討論的地方是非常多。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:17.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:29.750000+08:00","text":"不過委員，我要跟您報告，對於您的質疑，我們有兩點：第一個，我們還是要提醒國人風險，畢竟案例或是他來跟我們報案的數字居高不下。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:35.666667+08:00","text":"第二個是重點，就是我們要促使中共當局要落實相關機制，趕快跟我們回報，相關的機制要來通報。","quality":0.575},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:38.666667+08:00","text":"我支持，有抓到人，有犯法的來跟我們通報讓我們知道。","quality":0.318},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:42.800000+08:00","text":"要尊重他們的司法人權。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:52.818182+08:00","text":"但是我目前看不出來剛剛我們講的，因為大陸修了很多法令，然後告訴大家赴陸非常有風險，但就目前來看，可能就是……","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:54+08:00","text":"因為有些人還沒有……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:54.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:12:56.555556+08:00","text":"國安案件就1件而已，然後我們就把他講得很可怕。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:12:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:13:02+08:00","text":"下落還沒有底定，包括失聯的、包括其他涉及刑法的也有58人。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:13:05.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:13:10.857143+08:00","text":"402的總統計案件是113年到115年，這個是現況嗎？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:13:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:13:13.769231+08:00","text":"還是過程當中已經有人被找到了？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:13:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:13:19.555556+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實實際的狀況都不斷地在改變，畢竟有的已經回來，或者有些……","quality":0.677},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:13:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:13:26.800000+08:00","text":"現在實際的失聯人數，或者還在遭滯留盤查或仍然遭到關押的人數，你現在可以提供資料嗎？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:13:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:13:33.400000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們還要再進一步統計，因為我們只是針對當時報案的情況來做一些呈現。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:13:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:13:40.777778+08:00","text":"如果你有做事後的追蹤，應該要知道現況有多少人，你怎麼會不知道現況有多少人！","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:13:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:13:52.538462+08:00","text":"是，我們會有，只不過我們要凸出一個事實，第一個，呼籲國人要注意，明顯風險是提升的；第二個，還是要讓對岸知道，他要發揮既有的機制。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:13:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:04.400000+08:00","text":"我希望之後公開的資料也把現況呈現，到底現在有多少人是失聯，如果把中華民國這幾年失聯的人數都統計下來，去年就有兩萬三了，對不對？","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:07.818182+08:00","text":"萬分之一，比這個比率還高啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:10.666667+08:00","text":"難道就真的2萬3,000人不見了，會有找到的嘛！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:13.833333+08:00","text":"實際上現在還有多少人是找不到的，還是什麼情況？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:16.666667+08:00","text":"我覺得這應該也要公告，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:16.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:17.666667+08:00","text":"再麻煩。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:17.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:25.750000+08:00","text":"另外，很多人都說到大陸很危險，除了可能被關押之外，還有可能被活摘器官的問題，你們有沒有收到通報過？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:30.200000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們現在的旅遊警示一直維持橙色。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:34.750000+08:00","text":"對，我知道是橙色，有沒有人通報被活摘器官的？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:41.250000+08:00","text":"我們沒有收到您說的活摘器官案例。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:42+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:50.857143+08:00","text":"沒有收到過，但國人都非常擔心，希望未來也把此揭露出來，如果有的話，我也會很擔心，大家都很擔心。是。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:51.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:14:52.777778+08:00","text":"最後，抱歉沒時間了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:14:56.769231+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:15:06.857143+08:00","text":"現在的兩岸關係有些是政治問題，但我會說馬英九時代為什麼可以不用像現在這樣兵兇戰危，為什麼現在……有時候這就會變成政治吵架。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:15:07.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:15:09.888889+08:00","text":"不過我不希望陸委會變成放羊的孩子！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:15:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:15:30.875000+08:00","text":"兩岸當然是有風險的，只是不斷去傳輸一些過大的、可能不夠周全的資訊，或是蓄意堆出來的風險，一旦國人忽視了未來真的可能有風險發生時，屆時陸委會就真的變成放羊的孩子了，再也不會有人在乎或重視陸委會所發布的警訊。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:15:31.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:15:36.888889+08:00","text":"邱主委，你身為陸委會主任委員，希望你不要變成放羊的孩子。","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:15:36.888889+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:15:37.888889+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指教。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:15:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:15:45.666667+08:00","text":"跟您報告，兩岸關係可能跌宕起伏，但是我們政策的重中之重還是重視國人赴陸的安危……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:15:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:15:55.846154+08:00","text":"我希望未來一旦風險真的劇升時，陸委會所提出的風險評估不會再被國人忽視，而不是像現在不管丟什麼訊息出來，大家都只是當作茶餘飯後、消遣聊天的話題而已。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T10:15:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:16:07.727273+08:00","text":"這不是消遣，像2017年發生的李明哲事件，那時候相關案件還很少，所以全國都在關心李明哲，結果現在有402件類似的案件，我們不用關心嗎……","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:16:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:16:10.571429+08:00","text":"李明哲又沒有去做詐騙，李明哲有沒有做詐騙？","quality":0.421},{"speaker":"廖委員先翔","start":"2026-07-29T10:16:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T10:16:12.500000+08:00","text":"好，就這樣，謝謝主委。謝謝。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T10:16:13+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T10:16:15.285714+08:00","text":"請王美惠委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":318,"blocks":[["廖委員先翔：（10時3分）謝謝主席，麻煩請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：廖委員好。"],["廖委員先翔：主委早安，每次都是你來。好啦，其實包括許忠信委員的質詢，其實許委員的政治立場，大家心裡大概都有個印象。包括我們陸委會最近一直在做一些赴陸交流或者是赴陸旅遊非常危險的一些宣傳，但是我們國人赴陸的人數卻不斷的攀升，這其中的原因，我覺得陸委會可以好好思考。我們到底是在做陸委會應該做的事情，還是單純在幫民進黨做意識型態的宣傳，我覺得您可以思考。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員。"],["廖委員先翔：我先跟您請教一個數學題，我們陸委會的資料顯示114年的通報人數每月18人，115年平均每月16人，看起來是差不多，沒有明顯上升，也沒有明顯下降，以統計學來說，可能是誤差範圍內；但是我們赴陸人次部分，114年整年度大概是323萬，115年上半年1到6月就有285萬，赴陸人次大概提升了25%左右。在平均每月人數不變，但是母數，也就是赴陸人次增加的情況下，這樣子通報人數的比率，今年是不是比去年還低？這是數學題喔！"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，如果是數學題的話，在疫情之前，我們去中國大陸的人高達630萬到650萬……"],["廖委員先翔：那時候還沒有這個通報系統嘛！我們在這兩年……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們也是歡迎大家通報……"],["廖委員先翔：我們這兩年比較鼓吹通報嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：那個時候人身安全的案例不多，比如2017年……"],["廖委員先翔：疫情前到113年、114年是增加的，沒關係，我就先照你的論述來講，但是114年到115年，就是去年到今年，今年赴陸通報失聯的比率是降低的，沒錯吧！"],["邱主任委員垂正：比率……"],["廖委員先翔：是吧！"],["邱主任委員垂正：因為今年還沒有過完……"],["廖委員先翔：到目前為止嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：如果是平均，今年是16、去年是18。"],["廖委員先翔：人數差不多，但母數不一樣了。"],["邱主任委員垂正：差不多，每個月不同。"],["廖委員先翔：這是一個客觀的資訊，為什麼我剛剛會這樣子指控？你或許不認同，但是為什麼會這樣子指控？你們單純當作民進黨……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們歡迎委員指導。"],["廖委員先翔：一個政治、抗中保臺的傳聲筒而已。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們沒有抗中保臺。"],["廖委員先翔：這是我的指控，你當然可以否認。一些客觀的資訊你們沒有去充分揭露，比率其實是下降的。當然不是比率下降就沒有風險，剛剛主委也講，任何一個人有發生事情都是一個家庭的重大負擔或者破碎，這我認同。我們看一下案件類型的統計，遭限制人身自由大概就超過一半，其中大部分都是知道原因的，涉嫌詐騙案件134人、其他涉刑事案件58人，這些都是很明確地觸犯到當地的法律，可能跟政治無關。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["廖委員先翔：陸委會把這個統計進來，您是認為到一個國家或者地區去犯罪，比如詐騙或是涉及刑事案件而被當地的司法部門關押就叫做風險嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，這些在中國大陸……像今天的主題叫「失聯」，但像第一類的通報失聯，這個還不至於……"],["廖委員先翔：這個我們等一下再討論。"],["邱主任委員垂正：失聯的數字在這幾個月明顯升高。"],["廖委員先翔：我就問你，你們把詐騙、涉及刑事案件也統計進來，是不是你也認為到一個國家、一個地區，我們今天先不講大陸，如果到日本、到美國，有人因為詐騙或涉及其他刑事案件而被關押，這樣也叫做旅遊風險嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，包括我剛剛的報告及內政部的報告都提到，中國大陸制定了非常多國家安全的法律，我們……"],["廖委員先翔：對，詐騙啊，詐騙是國家安全嗎？其他刑事案件有國家安全嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：其他刑事案件也多達58例……"],["廖委員先翔：對啊！"],["邱主任委員垂正：還有包括宗教的有23例。"],["廖委員先翔：但有明確的國安……"],["邱主任委員垂正：這個可能都是涉及觸犯中國大陸剛制定的這些國家安全法律。"],["廖委員先翔：但有明確寫國安的就1人嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，其他涉及宗教或刑事的都有可能，因為他是用各種的刑法來判，所以這個部分是有，然後失聯的也很多。"],["廖委員先翔：我建議只要涉及到剛剛陸委會或內政部條列的反獨22條、反分裂國家法的，這當然是國安案件，那就統計到國安案件，你們怎麼用在其他刑事案件？"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，關於他的歸屬，他放在有關違反刑事……"],["廖委員先翔：或者是宗教案件，你會覺得去……不要講伊朗好了，這個可能大家認為是比較獨裁極權的國家，到沙烏地阿拉伯……其實也是，我們的外交部會認為到沙烏地阿拉伯去做基督教或天主教的傳教而因此受到司法調查叫做旅遊風險嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟廖委員報告，你剛剛提到的宗教案件，目前的23件都是用中共刑法第三百條來判，所以都通通納入到刑事……"],["廖委員先翔：這個就是當地國家的法令，這可能跟剛剛我們條列式的懲獨22條或反分裂國家法，或者是你們講的……"],["邱主任委員垂正：民族團結進步……"],["廖委員先翔：民族團結法等等的有關係嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們正在看這些法律……"],["廖委員先翔：所以才回到為什麼國人不買單、為什麼赴陸人數還是增加？因為他們認為陸委會沒有在做正事，你們所公布的訊息都是在政治操作而已。"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，在承平時候，我們國人赴陸是超過600萬人，而現在，您剛剛說的只有323萬，還是很多人有一些疑慮，不過我要跟委員報告的是……"],["廖委員先翔：沒關係，至少我剛剛確認了，比率是下降的，多數是其他刑事案件。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們這些案件的統計並不是委員說的在阻止交流、在抗中保臺，都不是這個原意，我們只是讓國人了解……"],["廖委員先翔：你們是跟國人說他們去那邊詐騙會被關很危險，不要去詐騙，是這樣嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：他們赴陸的人身安全的趨勢風險是高的，因為我們的憲法不會限制國人去，但是去了要知道風險高。"],["廖委員先翔：你可以講直接一點，去大陸不能做詐騙，不然會被關、會被抓，你可以講直接一點嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：這也是一個，他們要尊重當地的法律，但是當地的法律也有很多很容易被繩之以法的。"],["廖委員先翔：我最關心的是涉國安案件，我不曉得您可不可以在這邊做說明？這一件國安案件，我覺得是最符合我們剛剛講的他們近期的修法，您能夠做一些說明嗎？還是不方便？"],["邱主任委員垂正：這一件因為家屬的緣故，我可以私底下跟你說明。"],["廖委員先翔：好，不方便公開講嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["廖委員先翔：為什麼網路上有大家很多的揶揄？因為最近這麼多的通報案件，402件都沒有家屬出來開記者會或者去找一些國際人權團體做聲援，這過去我們可以看到很多，包括李明哲案、富察案，因為政治案件，赴陸而遭受不法司法調查或羈押的案件，媒體報導非常多啊！但為什麼這402件都沒有，那就是大家在懷疑這402件到底是什麼，結果大家攤開一看，詐騙、其他刑事案件被你們當作赴陸交流的風險，我覺得這就是大家對陸委會的一些不理解。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員，委員剛剛的說法，我覺得很重要，為什麼家屬沒有出來？我覺得很多家屬都是擔心他的家人還在大陸，他如果出來的話，會不會增加他的風險？"],["廖委員先翔：李明哲就不擔心嗎？富察就不擔心嗎？對不對？"],["邱主任委員垂正：李明哲的家屬我們理解……"],["廖委員先翔：過去大家都會出來講，希望透過國際社會給壓力，現在突然國際社會不給壓力了嗎？不幫忙了嗎？不會吧！"],["邱主任委員垂正：有些事我們要尊重家屬跟當事人的意願，事實上……"],["廖委員先翔：當然我尊重這樣的說法，我沒辦法求證嘛！我相信你們也不會偽造資料，但是裡面的案件類型，大家就會認為可以討論的地方是非常多。"],["邱主任委員垂正：不過委員，我要跟您報告，對於您的質疑，我們有兩點：第一個，我們還是要提醒國人風險，畢竟案例或是他來跟我們報案的數字居高不下。第二個是重點，就是我們要促使中共當局要落實相關機制，趕快跟我們回報，相關的機制要來通報。"],["廖委員先翔：我支持，有抓到人，有犯法的來跟我們通報讓我們知道。"],["邱主任委員垂正：要尊重他們的司法人權。"],["廖委員先翔：但是我目前看不出來剛剛我們講的，因為大陸修了很多法令，然後告訴大家赴陸非常有風險，但就目前來看，可能就是……"],["邱主任委員垂正：因為有些人還沒有……"],["廖委員先翔：國安案件就1件而已，然後我們就把他講得很可怕。"],["邱主任委員垂正：下落還沒有底定，包括失聯的、包括其他涉及刑法的也有58人。"],["廖委員先翔：402的總統計案件是113年到115年，這個是現況嗎？還是過程當中已經有人被找到了？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，其實實際的狀況都不斷地在改變，畢竟有的已經回來，或者有些……"],["廖委員先翔：現在實際的失聯人數，或者還在遭滯留盤查或仍然遭到關押的人數，你現在可以提供資料嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：這個部分我們還要再進一步統計，因為我們只是針對當時報案的情況來做一些呈現。"],["廖委員先翔：如果你有做事後的追蹤，應該要知道現況有多少人，你怎麼會不知道現況有多少人！"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，我們會有，只不過我們要凸出一個事實，第一個，呼籲國人要注意，明顯風險是提升的；第二個，還是要讓對岸知道，他要發揮既有的機制。"],["廖委員先翔：我希望之後公開的資料也把現況呈現，到底現在有多少人是失聯，如果把中華民國這幾年失聯的人數都統計下來，去年就有兩萬三了，對不對？萬分之一，比這個比率還高啊！難道就真的2萬3,000人不見了，會有找到的嘛！實際上現在還有多少人是找不到的，還是什麼情況？我覺得這應該也要公告，好不好？再麻煩。"],["邱主任委員垂正：好。"],["廖委員先翔：另外，很多人都說到大陸很危險，除了可能被關押之外，還有可能被活摘器官的問題，你們有沒有收到通報過？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們現在的旅遊警示一直維持橙色。"],["廖委員先翔：對，我知道是橙色，有沒有人通報被活摘器官的？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們沒有收到您說的活摘器官案例。"],["廖委員先翔：沒有收到過，但國人都非常擔心，希望未來也把此揭露出來，如果有的話，我也會很擔心，大家都很擔心。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["廖委員先翔：最後，抱歉沒時間了。現在的兩岸關係有些是政治問題，但我會說馬英九時代為什麼可以不用像現在這樣兵兇戰危，為什麼現在……有時候這就會變成政治吵架。不過我不希望陸委會變成放羊的孩子！兩岸當然是有風險的，只是不斷去傳輸一些過大的、可能不夠周全的資訊，或是蓄意堆出來的風險，一旦國人忽視了未來真的可能有風險發生時，屆時陸委會就真的變成放羊的孩子了，再也不會有人在乎或重視陸委會所發布的警訊。邱主委，你身為陸委會主任委員，希望你不要變成放羊的孩子。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝委員指教。跟您報告，兩岸關係可能跌宕起伏，但是我們政策的重中之重還是重視國人赴陸的安危……"],["廖委員先翔：我希望未來一旦風險真的劇升時，陸委會所提出的風險評估不會再被國人忽視，而不是像現在不管丟什麼訊息出來，大家都只是當作茶餘飯後、消遣聊天的話題而已。"],["邱主任委員垂正：這不是消遣，像2017年發生的李明哲事件，那時候相關案件還很少，所以全國都在關心李明哲，結果現在有402件類似的案件，我們不用關心嗎……"],["廖委員先翔：李明哲又沒有去做詐騙，李明哲有沒有做詐騙？好，就這樣，謝謝主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝。"],["主席：請王美惠委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":156,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-15-20","speakers":["廖先翔","許忠信","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","王美惠","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","黃捷","李坤城","李柏毅","許宇甄","謝龍介","葉元之","翁曉玲","徐欣瑩","張智倫","高金素梅","吳宗憲","林德福"],"page_start":81,"meetingDate":["2026-07-29"],"gazette_id":"1156801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員、內政部部長、法務部、警政署、移民署、財團法人海峽交流基金\n會就「國人赴陸失聯情況及政府因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請內政部部長、警\n政署署長就「『萊爾校長』小編遭警突襲查水表事件，檢視警察執法標準與行政中立」進行專題\n報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156801_00010"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}