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:"請莊部長、彭署長、經濟部鄒副署長。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T11:46:52.428571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:46:53.428571+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:46:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:46:54.411765+08:00","text":"莊部長你好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:46:54.764706+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:47:22.714286+08:00","text":"時間過得很快，又快到中午了，我記得有幾十年的時間，中午的時間雖然在這邊開會，但也算是開開心心的吃午餐，午餐有鬍鬚張便當，有臺鐵的便當，還有青島排骨最著名的雞腿便當，請問你喜歡吃哪一樣？","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T11:47:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:47:27.666667+08:00","text":"我很久沒有在這邊吃便當了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:47:28.235294+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:47:31.294118+08:00","text":"你有沒有覺得我現在臉色都是「青筍筍」的？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:47:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:47:55.600000+08:00","text":"我現在不只是去外面，在立法院開會也一樣，以前都還有多樣性的選擇，但現在只有一種選擇，就是燙青菜，上面用醬油膏、蒜蓉醬油等等，然後玉米都是真的，但只要碰到與毒油陰影有關的，什麼都不敢吃。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:47:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:48:07.700000+08:00","text":"部長，關於油的事情，現在已經水落石出，國人可以安心的吃飯嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:48:08.923077+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:48:32.705882+08:00","text":"過去在非洲豬瘟的時候，關務署扮演一個境外鎮國神山的角色，每一隻豬、死豬或是什麼豬進來，通通在境外就攔截了，所以臺灣這幾年好像沒有非洲豬瘟了吧？","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T11:48:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:48:44.750000+08:00","text":"我們對於豬肉進行非常嚴格的查緝，關務署非常的嚴格，而去年在臺中曾經有發生過，但在防疫上做得相當徹底……","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:48:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:48:45.800000+08:00","text":"對，有一小段時間。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T11:48:45.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:48:49+08:00","text":"然後讓這件事情能夠處理了，總之，在臺中曾經發生這樣的事情。","quality":0.269},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:48:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:48:50.666667+08:00","text":"整體上還是不錯的。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:48:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:48:58.857143+08:00","text":"現在來討論油，為什麼關務署沒有辦法在前面、當油要進來的時候，全面就把它擋住？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T11:48:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:49:18.750000+08:00","text":"對於油這個部分，我想衛福部已經說得很清楚了，第一個，這個廠商在進口的時候，後續產製的過程，自己調整了相關的規律，然後後面產製的過程當中，又沒有做好相關應該要做的事情，這個部分他們已經說清楚了。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T11:49:19.214286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:49:36.600000+08:00","text":"至於海關的部分，對於進口的一些品項，比如黃豆，都必須經過相關的檢驗，也就是由食藥署跟防檢局檢驗以後，海關才會放行，所以各有不同的職掌，海關有海關的職掌，檢疫機關有檢疫機關的職掌。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:49:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:49:40.777778+08:00","text":"所以海關在工作分配上也是有其責任在那個地方。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:49:43.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:49:49.636364+08:00","text":"我請教彭署長，截至目前為止，國內的油到底有沒有毒？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:49:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:49:51.500000+08:00","text":"能不能吃？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-07-29T11:49:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:49:55+08:00","text":"報告委員，我都有在吃啦！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:49:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:50:08.500000+08:00","text":"你都有在吃，我吃到不敢吃了，有人說已經4個月了，甚至還有提到其實在4年前就發生毒油的事情，但是通通蓋牌！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:50:10.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:50:26.571429+08:00","text":"署長，你身為第一線的從業人員，我當然知道責任不在你們，最主要是另外其他兩個單位，你會不會想到對於自己的安全、健康會有很大的威脅？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:50:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:50:30+08:00","text":"你有沒有家人？有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:50:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:50:34+08:00","text":"你家裡有沒有小孩？有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:50:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:50:50.800000+08:00","text":"你每天外食吃便當的時候，一想到家裡的小孩如果每天都吃毒油就會影響到他們一輩子的健康，你不會怕嗎？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-07-29T11:50:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:50:59.666667+08:00","text":"報告委員，政府機關對於食品安全一定會落實去嚴格的執行，這是不會妥協的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:01.714286+08:00","text":"是，你講得很漂亮啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:10.666667+08:00","text":"可是你能保證現在每一頓都吃外面的外食族所吃到的都沒問題嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:11.769231+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:22.692308+08:00","text":"今天我在臺灣吃這些美食或到路邊攤去吃，你可以保證我不會吃到毒油嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:26+08:00","text":"就是今天。今天？對。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:32.500000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果要我保證，不好意思！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:34.714286+08:00","text":"那你不能保證嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:41.777778+08:00","text":"可是大家都覺得你們海關是第一線，你們如果都攔截下來，就不會有毒油流進來了。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"彭署長英偉","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:42+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:54.500000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這次毒油事件的問題應該不是發生在進口端的部分，據衛福部的調查報告，應該是在製程的部分。製程？對。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:06.600000+08:00","text":"從第一天開始就是隨便甩鍋給巴西的黃豆，其實也不是嘛！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:13.333333+08:00","text":"現在有此一說是製程出了問題，因為國內的油進來就是兩宗，對不對？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:17.636364+08:00","text":"一個是大統益，占了百分之多少？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:21.666667+08:00","text":"經濟部應該知道，請副署長。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"鄒副署長宇新","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:23.666667+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，是50%。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:25.500000+08:00","text":"另外一個呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鄒副署長宇新","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:27.333333+08:00","text":"中聯是35%。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:30.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:35.727273+08:00","text":"你應該在進來的時候就在源頭把它管制好，結果他剛剛說是製程，是不是？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:37.714286+08:00","text":"兩個製程不一樣嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"鄒副署長宇新","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:00.785714+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為從美國跟巴西進口大豆的來源不同，所以品質也不同，雖然不同，但是可以透過製程的方式去做調整，根據昨天衛福部食藥署的報告，不管是豆子的來源或者是製程的部分，其實都有一些相關的問題存在。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:01.272727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:37.666667+08:00","text":"好，我們就從那個製程來說好了，大統益用的是法國的機器，所以是真空抽取的、是安全的，現在問題就是出在中聯的這個部分，它占了市場的35%，但是以前我們都說4斤黃豆換1斤油，結果現在因為工序的投機取巧，變成3斤的黃豆就能榨出1斤的油，問題是出在哪裡？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:01.666667+08:00","text":"大豆其實是會酸的，他為了要省成本，就加入了化學的鹼性，讓酸鹼中和，所以從那個漏斗下來就是中和以後的油，可能他就把5%或10%的油漏掉了。","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:05.733333+08:00","text":"可是為什麼3斤的黃豆變1斤的油？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:06.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:06.833333+08:00","text":"很簡單嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:09.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:21.692308+08:00","text":"就是鹼性這些化學品多加一點，在加了以後會改變，一稍微有狀況，那個毒油就跑出苯駢芘了！","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:24.769231+08:00","text":"你可能比較清楚，是不是這樣子？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄒副署長宇新","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:38.285714+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，對這個部分並沒有那麼清楚，因為整個調查報告是由衛福部這邊來負責，檢調也已經進入了，所以我們經濟部這邊是沒有進到廠內去做調查。好啦！","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:38.571429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:51.333333+08:00","text":"我覺得大家的速度要快一點，到現在食不安心，像很多外國的朋友以前都認為臺灣是美食王國，現在來這裡也不敢吃了！","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:57.333333+08:00","text":"你看黃仁勳最近都沒有去夜市了，「剉咧等」！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:11.250000+08:00","text":"怕到時候吃一吃又中，雞排也不能吃，現在如果再1萬點，每1萬點我們再吃雞排，我現在想到都想要吐出來，真的啊！","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:12.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:25.700000+08:00","text":"食品安全問題人人有責，經濟部也要想想辦法，你們幫幫忙，你們也要去了解一下製造的過程是怎麼樣，好不好？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:36.800000+08:00","text":"另外，再請教莊部長，我知道這個事情跟莊部長沒有直接的關係，但是我覺得在海關能做。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:37.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:44.750000+08:00","text":"最近來源的部分有沒有辦法多加強管理？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:55.833333+08:00","text":"海關有它的職掌，當然它也會根據各個貨品主管機關的要求，由各主管機關該查驗的查驗、該檢疫的檢疫，不合規定的海關就不會放行。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:02.800000+08:00","text":"上次說發芽的馬鈴薯要一顆一顆檢查，現在真的有這樣檢查嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:06.500000+08:00","text":"這個部分應該是屬於農業部在處理的，不是在海關。","quality":0.619},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:07.400000+08:00","text":"農業部？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:11.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:12.800000+08:00","text":"跟海關沒關係？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:14.800000+08:00","text":"進來不都是海關第一關？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:15.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:16.666667+08:00","text":"海關的職務、職掌各有分工。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:17.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:30.636364+08:00","text":"你們能提供一些多年的寶貴經驗，站在國民的立場，你們一定要拴緊螺絲，多多給予建言，好不好？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:32.750000+08:00","text":"是的，謝謝委員指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:44.666667+08:00","text":"另外，看到最近的股市暴起暴落，最近一直跌，現在好像跌破4萬點了。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:48.666667+08:00","text":"部長，為什麼股市會跌跌不休？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:59.555556+08:00","text":"因為美股還有日、韓股也都下跌，有一些不確定的預期，所以會有下跌的情況。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:33.666667+08:00","text":"我覺得臺灣的股市也好，韓國的股市也好，最後大概都是變成割韭菜，因為我大概十幾天前就聽到美國華爾街的消息，他們偷偷有一個訊息說全部要賣股票，而且他們是一致性的，我們發現所有股市上漲下跌，由這一次的歷史經驗來看，真正發動炒股的是美國，美國的誰，你知道嗎？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:37+08:00","text":"我私底下跟你說，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:37.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:40.928571+08:00","text":"我們結束羅明才委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:41.228571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:45.800000+08:00","text":"接下來蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:46.100000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:48.671429+08:00","text":"接下來請楊瓊瓔委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":764,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（11時46分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。請財政部莊部長、關務署彭署長，還有經濟部鄒副署長。"],["主席：請莊部長、彭署長、經濟部鄒副署長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：莊部長你好。時間過得很快，又快到中午了，我記得有幾十年的時間，中午的時間雖然在這邊開會，但也算是開開心心的吃午餐，午餐有鬍鬚張便當，有臺鐵的便當，還有青島排骨最著名的雞腿便當，請問你喜歡吃哪一樣？"],["莊部長翠雲：我很久沒有在這邊吃便當了。"],["羅委員明才：你有沒有覺得我現在臉色都是「青筍筍」的？我現在不只是去外面，在立法院開會也一樣，以前都還有多樣性的選擇，但現在只有一種選擇，就是燙青菜，上面用醬油膏、蒜蓉醬油等等，然後玉米都是真的，但只要碰到與毒油陰影有關的，什麼都不敢吃。部長，關於油的事情，現在已經水落石出，國人可以安心的吃飯嗎？過去在非洲豬瘟的時候，關務署扮演一個境外鎮國神山的角色，每一隻豬、死豬或是什麼豬進來，通通在境外就攔截了，所以臺灣這幾年好像沒有非洲豬瘟了吧？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們對於豬肉進行非常嚴格的查緝，關務署非常的嚴格，而去年在臺中曾經有發生過，但在防疫上做得相當徹底……"],["羅委員明才：對，有一小段時間。"],["莊部長翠雲：然後讓這件事情能夠處理了，總之，在臺中曾經發生這樣的事情。"],["羅委員明才：整體上還是不錯的。現在來討論油，為什麼關務署沒有辦法在前面、當油要進來的時候，全面就把它擋住？"],["莊部長翠雲：對於油這個部分，我想衛福部已經說得很清楚了，第一個，這個廠商在進口的時候，後續產製的過程，自己調整了相關的規律，然後後面產製的過程當中，又沒有做好相關應該要做的事情，這個部分他們已經說清楚了。至於海關的部分，對於進口的一些品項，比如黃豆，都必須經過相關的檢驗，也就是由食藥署跟防檢局檢驗以後，海關才會放行，所以各有不同的職掌，海關有海關的職掌，檢疫機關有檢疫機關的職掌。"],["羅委員明才：所以海關在工作分配上也是有其責任在那個地方。我請教彭署長，截至目前為止，國內的油到底有沒有毒？能不能吃？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，我都有在吃啦！"],["羅委員明才：你都有在吃，我吃到不敢吃了，有人說已經4個月了，甚至還有提到其實在4年前就發生毒油的事情，但是通通蓋牌！署長，你身為第一線的從業人員，我當然知道責任不在你們，最主要是另外其他兩個單位，你會不會想到對於自己的安全、健康會有很大的威脅？你有沒有家人？"],["彭署長英偉：有。"],["羅委員明才：你家裡有沒有小孩？"],["彭署長英偉：有。"],["羅委員明才：你每天外食吃便當的時候，一想到家裡的小孩如果每天都吃毒油就會影響到他們一輩子的健康，你不會怕嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，政府機關對於食品安全一定會落實去嚴格的執行，這是不會妥協的事情。"],["羅委員明才：是，你講得很漂亮啊！可是你能保證現在每一頓都吃外面的外食族所吃到的都沒問題嗎？今天我在臺灣吃這些美食或到路邊攤去吃，你可以保證我不會吃到毒油嗎？就是今天。"],["彭署長英偉：今天？"],["羅委員明才：對。"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，如果要我保證，不好意思！"],["羅委員明才：那你不能保證嘛！可是大家都覺得你們海關是第一線，你們如果都攔截下來，就不會有毒油流進來了。"],["彭署長英偉：跟委員報告，這次毒油事件的問題應該不是發生在進口端的部分，據衛福部的調查報告，應該是在製程的部分。"],["羅委員明才：製程？"],["彭署長英偉：對。"],["羅委員明才：從第一天開始就是隨便甩鍋給巴西的黃豆，其實也不是嘛！現在有此一說是製程出了問題，因為國內的油進來就是兩宗，對不對？一個是大統益，占了百分之多少？經濟部應該知道，請副署長。"],["鄒副署長宇新：跟委員報告，是50%。"],["羅委員明才：另外一個呢？"],["鄒副署長宇新：中聯是35%。"],["羅委員明才：你應該在進來的時候就在源頭把它管制好，結果他剛剛說是製程，是不是？兩個製程不一樣嘛！"],["鄒副署長宇新：跟委員報告，因為從美國跟巴西進口大豆的來源不同，所以品質也不同，雖然不同，但是可以透過製程的方式去做調整，根據昨天衛福部食藥署的報告，不管是豆子的來源或者是製程的部分，其實都有一些相關的問題存在。"],["羅委員明才：好，我們就從那個製程來說好了，大統益用的是法國的機器，所以是真空抽取的、是安全的，現在問題就是出在中聯的這個部分，它占了市場的35%，但是以前我們都說4斤黃豆換1斤油，結果現在因為工序的投機取巧，變成3斤的黃豆就能榨出1斤的油，問題是出在哪裡？大豆其實是會酸的，他為了要省成本，就加入了化學的鹼性，讓酸鹼中和，所以從那個漏斗下來就是中和以後的油，可能他就把5%或10%的油漏掉了。可是為什麼3斤的黃豆變1斤的油？很簡單嘛！就是鹼性這些化學品多加一點，在加了以後會改變，一稍微有狀況，那個毒油就跑出苯駢芘了！你可能比較清楚，是不是這樣子？"],["鄒副署長宇新：跟委員報告，對這個部分並沒有那麼清楚，因為整個調查報告是由衛福部這邊來負責，檢調也已經進入了，所以我們經濟部這邊是沒有進到廠內去做調查。"],["羅委員明才：好啦！我覺得大家的速度要快一點，到現在食不安心，像很多外國的朋友以前都認為臺灣是美食王國，現在來這裡也不敢吃了！你看黃仁勳最近都沒有去夜市了，「剉咧等」！怕到時候吃一吃又中，雞排也不能吃，現在如果再1萬點，每1萬點我們再吃雞排，我現在想到都想要吐出來，真的啊！食品安全問題人人有責，經濟部也要想想辦法，你們幫幫忙，你們也要去了解一下製造的過程是怎麼樣，好不好？","另外，再請教莊部長，我知道這個事情跟莊部長沒有直接的關係，但是我覺得在海關能做。最近來源的部分有沒有辦法多加強管理？"],["莊部長翠雲：海關有它的職掌，當然它也會根據各個貨品主管機關的要求，由各主管機關該查驗的查驗、該檢疫的檢疫，不合規定的海關就不會放行。"],["羅委員明才：上次說發芽的馬鈴薯要一顆一顆檢查，現在真的有這樣檢查嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分應該是屬於農業部在處理的，不是在海關。"],["羅委員明才：農業部？跟海關沒關係？進來不都是海關第一關？"],["莊部長翠雲：海關的職務、職掌各有分工。"],["羅委員明才：你們能提供一些多年的寶貴經驗，站在國民的立場，你們一定要拴緊螺絲，多多給予建言，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，謝謝委員指教。"],["羅委員明才：另外，看到最近的股市暴起暴落，最近一直跌，現在好像跌破4萬點了。部長，為什麼股市會跌跌不休？"],["莊部長翠雲：因為美股還有日、韓股也都下跌，有一些不確定的預期，所以會有下跌的情況。"],["羅委員明才：我覺得臺灣的股市也好，韓國的股市也好，最後大概都是變成割韭菜，因為我大概十幾天前就聽到美國華爾街的消息，他們偷偷有一個訊息說全部要賣股票，而且他們是一致性的，我們發現所有股市上漲下跌，由這一次的歷史經驗來看，真正發動炒股的是美國，美國的誰，你知道嗎？我私底下跟你說，謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝。"],["主席：我們結束羅明才委員的質詢。","接下來蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":254,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-20-24","speakers":["李彥秀","賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","林岱樺","劉書彬","李坤城","林思銘","顏寬恒","王世堅","許忠信","陳玉珍","羅明才","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2026-07-29"],"gazette_id":"1156801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查本院委員王世堅等17人、委員呂玉玲等16人、委員葉元之等17人、委員黃健豪等18人、委員\n黃健豪等19人、委員賴士葆等18人、委員李彥秀等20人分別擬具「海關進口稅則部分稅則修正草\n案」等7案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1156801_00012"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}