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8:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:50:39.764706+08:00","text":"同時間大家認為，除了陸委會之外，大家對僑委會的報告也是覺得寫得很爛，我有看到僑委會委員長徐佳青，當然這跟你無關，他是你的同僚，他回應說是機密，不然是要給中共看嗎？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:50:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:50:43.714286+08:00","text":"這種回答實在是令人覺得很可笑！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:50:44.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:50:50.142857+08:00","text":"就算不是要給中共看，也不要讓其他國家笑，你也稍微寫得有點水準嘛！","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:50:50.357143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:50:50.785714+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:50:51.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:12.592593+08:00","text":"就算有一個不能夠公開的非機密版，但是也要寫得有水準，有水準跟看是兩回事，所以我不太能接受徐佳青的說法，因為今天不是質詢他，但我也希望陸委會以後有類似的報告，有機密不用公開，但是你公開的東西就是要有水準，因為這個代表國家的文書。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:13.111111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:44.769231+08:00","text":"我就針對這一份訪問越南的報告，我自己是覺得有幾件事情還滿怪的，第一個，在第2頁的部分，我是沒秀出來，裡面有提到副主委沈有忠訪問了很多越南的智庫，他在跟智庫溝通的過程當中，當然有說明政府致力於維持現狀，但是他說他跟越南的智庫呼籲北京當局要跟我民選政府對話。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:46.153846+08:00","text":"我是不太懂啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:46.384615+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:51.800000+08:00","text":"陸委會跑去越南，然後跟越南的智庫去呼籲北京跟我們對話幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:51:55.714286+08:00","text":"越南裡面是有北京的官方代表喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:51:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:00.736842+08:00","text":"你要呼籲，跑到越南去跟越南智庫呼籲幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:04.571429+08:00","text":"這種東西寫出來就是讓人家覺得到底有去沒去？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:04.928571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:05.821429+08:00","text":"到底是去幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:07.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:10.761905+08:00","text":"去越南智庫呼籲北京跟我們對話？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:11.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:14.777778+08:00","text":"主委，你要不要去問一下副主委到底去幹嘛？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:15.562500+08:00","text":"我清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:16.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:23.718750+08:00","text":"委員，這樣好不好，我們的參訪很多細部也不方便完全揭露……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:29.769231+08:00","text":"我剛剛有講，不方便揭露不要揭露，但你揭露的部分要有水準嘛！好……","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:37.666667+08:00","text":"你讓其他國家看到我們的陸委會跑到越南，去跟越南智庫呼籲北京跟我們對話，這就沒水準嘛！","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:38.833333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:42.791667+08:00","text":"未來的摘要版我們一定配合委員說的要有水準。對嘛！","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:43.444444+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:43.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:44.777778+08:00","text":"這是第一件事情。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:44.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:45.777778+08:00","text":"是，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:46.428571+08:00","text":"等一下一起講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:57.750000+08:00","text":"第二個是心得與建議，這個心得與建議有寫跟沒寫一樣，第一點，越南追求獨立自主外交，應爭取越方深化與臺合作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:52:58.250000+08:00","text":"不然呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:52:58.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:01.500000+08:00","text":"不然我們不要跟他爭取合作嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:06.838710+08:00","text":"你們的心得是……難道回來的心得會說越南不怎麼樣，我們不要跟他合作嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:07.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:13.823529+08:00","text":"這個心得是有去跟沒去都可以得到的心得，大家當然就會質疑你們去沒有意義嘛！","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:18.857143+08:00","text":"第二個更好笑，這個就跟主委好好請教一下，現在我們的兩岸政策到底是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:22.750000+08:00","text":"第二點叫做建議加強臺越中智庫交流。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:23.576923+08:00","text":"我不懂啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:23.769231+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:27.807692+08:00","text":"民進黨不是很多人都在說兩岸任何交流都是統戰嗎？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:33.769231+08:00","text":"那為什麼在陸委會的報告裡面會說要建議臺越中三方交流？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:34.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:35.846154+08:00","text":"到底是要交流，還是不要交流？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:36.555556+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:45.750000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，事實上，我們在對等尊嚴、相互尊重，包括對岸的這些學者、智庫，我們都願意跟他們交流。對啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:53:47.777778+08:00","text":"我們始終都沒有停掉。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:53:48.294118+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:11.875000+08:00","text":"這裡只是對於越南也非常關注兩岸關係，還有南海一些動態的問題，特別是中國大陸積極地對南海地區的各種擴張巡航，這也造成週遭國家的一些風險，所以他們也很想了解臺灣的經驗。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:12.176471+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:16.818182+08:00","text":"這我們都知道，我是要知道……陸委會現在既然建議臺越中智庫交流，那你要怎麼促成這件事情？","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:17.875000+08:00","text":"然後你們是跟誰建議？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:18.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:28.777778+08:00","text":"陸委會參訪完有了這個心得，你不是路人，你也不是一般人，你是政府官方代表，所以你要去建議誰去加強臺越中智庫交流？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:31.842105+08:00","text":"然後要建議跟哪一個中國大陸的智庫交流？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:33.937500+08:00","text":"因為你是官方，你是建議誰嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:34.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:35.812500+08:00","text":"你是建議賴清德總統嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:37.714286+08:00","text":"還是卓榮泰院長？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:41.555556+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們智庫交流還有很多學者……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:42.176471+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:42.882353+08:00","text":"對，是建議誰嘛？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:43.235294+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:48.937500+08:00","text":"現在回來，副主委有這個心得，覺得要跟臺越中智庫交流，那他是建議誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:49.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:50.812500+08:00","text":"他是建議賴清德總統嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:50.812500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:51.812500+08:00","text":"還是誰？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:54:58.666667+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們沈副主委是帶著一群學者去，不是他一個人，這些學者……很多智庫……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:54:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:14.846154+08:00","text":"不是啦，這個報告是陸委會寫的嘛，主委、主委、主委，大家的文字理解能力都沒有那麼差啦，他去參訪回來有心得，建議要跟中國大陸的智庫及越南三方多交流，陸委會一定往上建議嘛。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:14.846154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:15.846154+08:00","text":"我們都會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:15.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:17.800000+08:00","text":"你向卓榮泰還是建議賴總統建議？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:18.750000+08:00","text":"我們都會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:19.214286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:19.642857+08:00","text":"你建議要跟哪一個……","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:20.714286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:23.800000+08:00","text":"包括在臺灣的智庫，我們也會建議他們跟越南多交流。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:24.176471+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:28.800000+08:00","text":"你建議跟中國大陸哪個智庫交流比較不會有統戰的危機？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:34.812500+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，只要是對等尊嚴、相互尊重，兩邊有理性的人應該坐下來好好聊聊，事實上我們……","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:35.600000+08:00","text":"是哪些人嘛？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:35.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:37.666667+08:00","text":"不要講空話，不要講空話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:38.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:38.833333+08:00","text":"我們過去……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:39.800000+08:00","text":"不要講空話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:41.833333+08:00","text":"跟中國大陸的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:42.238095+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:49+08:00","text":"沒關係，主委，我了解了，就代表有去、沒去真的都一樣啦，你都講不清楚，沒關係。","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:49.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:51.800000+08:00","text":"委員，你不能這樣講，你要給我時間講……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:55.333333+08:00","text":"你已經講很久了，我知道你要講什麼。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:55.333333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:56.333333+08:00","text":"我請沈副主委去跟你報告，好不好？","quality":0.214},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:55:57.692308+08:00","text":"我都已經知道你要講什麼了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:55:57.692308+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:00.352941+08:00","text":"有些事不方便在這邊講清楚。","quality":0.083},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:00.352941+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:08.333333+08:00","text":"主委，你一直這樣講，因為我聽很多了，你的建議是：我們當然建議兩岸多交流，但是要在對等、尊嚴的情況下交流……然後呢？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:13.857143+08:00","text":"但是我們還是建議交流，可是要對等、尊嚴，但是現在就不夠對等、尊嚴，所以就沒辦法交流，就是一直繞圈圈。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:14.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:21.750000+08:00","text":"我現在質疑的是，如果你去參訪、交流回來，得到的是繞圈圈的建議及心得，那你到底去幹嘛？","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:22.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:28.833333+08:00","text":"目前兩岸的智庫交流仍在進行，我們的學術單位也跟中國大陸做很多交流，我們都有掌握。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"葉委員元之：有兩個建議","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:33.818182+08:00","text":"第一個，去參訪要有效益。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之：有兩個建議","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:38.777778+08:00","text":"第二個，上網的報告不要讓人家看了覺得有點怪。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:38.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:39.777778+08:00","text":"我了解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:39.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:50.857143+08:00","text":"再來是希望有一個完整版的報告，你不要公開，因為有出訪就要有一個完整版嘛，如果有些委員想對於完整版監督，希望可以提供。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:56:53.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:56:59.777778+08:00","text":"另外，如果是機密可以開秘密會議，可是不能夠像徐佳青那樣，就是我寫的爛又怎麼樣，因為我不想被中共看！","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:03.750000+08:00","text":"我不能接受政府官員用這種方式來掩蓋。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:04.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:14.200000+08:00","text":"越南的參訪案雖然只有公布3頁，事實上真正的報告有三十幾頁，有一萬三千多字，非常的豐富，以後有機會的話我請沈副主委……","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:15.333333+08:00","text":"可以啊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:15.333333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:17.363636+08:00","text":"涉及機密的部分再向您做報告。","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:17.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:25.666667+08:00","text":"對，如果那麼豐富的話，沒有機密的部分應該也滿豐富的，上網的報告好像有點太應付。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:26.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:28.857143+08:00","text":"主席可不可以再給我一點時間？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:32.454545+08:00","text":"因為剛剛主委講到一個話題我也滿有興趣，你剛剛提到矢板明夫嘛。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:34.333333+08:00","text":"是其他……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:36.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:36.916667+08:00","text":"剛剛不是你講矢板明夫嗎？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:38.777778+08:00","text":"跨境鎮壓不是你講的嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:40.666667+08:00","text":"我有講跨境鎮壓但沒有講到矢板明夫。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:41.111111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:41.666667+08:00","text":"你沒有講矢板明夫是不是？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:42.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:51.846154+08:00","text":"想跟你請教一下，矢板明夫事件如果是跨境鎮壓，我們全部都譴責啦，如果是跨境鎮壓，但是到底根據什麼認為一定是跨境鎮壓？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:57:53.857143+08:00","text":"跨境鎮壓就是習近平派人來的嘛。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:57:54.307692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:58:10.800000+08:00","text":"我看到新聞報導，矢板明夫要去的演講會，蕭美琴副總統本來也要去，後來蕭美琴副總統沒去，這是新聞報導，我看到總統府也沒有出來否認，應該是這樣。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:58:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:58:22.750000+08:00","text":"然後民進黨立委，我就不要說哪一位了，還有一些綠營的名嘴就說，那就對了，為什麼呢？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:58:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:58:48.800000+08:00","text":"因為本來對岸是派6個人來，後來離開了4個人，最後留下打人的廖港發加上1個人把風，只留2個人，這就說明原來那6個可能是衝著蕭美琴副總統來的，所以來6個人，後來得知副總統不來，就離開了4個人，只留下1個人打矢板明夫，所以這一定是跨境鎮壓。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:58:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:58:55.750000+08:00","text":"但是我覺得很不合理，也請主委判斷一下，所以我們的副總統維安這麼差嗎？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:58:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:59:00.833333+08:00","text":"只要6個人就可以打得到副總統，那這6個都是武林高手喔？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:59:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:59:06.700000+08:00","text":"是張無忌加上白眉鷹王、紫衫龍王加上楊過跟郭靖，是不是？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:59:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:59:11.625000+08:00","text":"還是最強老爸、或是洛基？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:59:12.545455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:59:33.666667+08:00","text":"這些情節讓我感到很荒謬，我覺得跨境鎮壓……我先說態度，如果是跨境鎮壓全臺灣都不能接受，我相信廖先翔也不能接受，大家都不能接受，可是事實是什麼，大家要把它說明清楚，而不是用推論的，來了6個就是要對我們副總統怎麼樣，這6個人是怎麼樣？","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:59:34.461538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:59:37.833333+08:00","text":"都是身懷絕技、武林高手還是我們副總統的維安那麼差？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:59:37.833333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T11:59:38.833333+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:59:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:59:39.866667+08:00","text":"不管從哪一個點來看，都有問題嘛！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T11:59:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T11:59:48.714286+08:00","text":"所以你認為現在有哪些很明確的證據說明了矢板明夫真的是習近平派人來打的？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T11:59:49.545455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:04.200000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，有一些港人也曾經遭受跨境鎮壓，像湯偉雄這對夫妻，我們都有去瞭解，它跟矢板明夫先生這個案子非常接近，就是打完他就跑，況且……","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:04.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:07.714286+08:00","text":"打完就跑就一定是習近平派來的喔？沒有。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:21.666667+08:00","text":"另外一方面，我們也看到它有集團化事先部署，而且目前地檢署也在掌握他的資訊，他還回報說任務完成……","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:23.777778+08:00","text":"你說他跟習近平回報？對。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:31.733333+08:00","text":"然後我們有去關切矢板明夫，我親自去看矢板明夫，只要是跨境鎮壓，我們都會去關切。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:32.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:39.750000+08:00","text":"矢板明夫告訴我，這個歹徒遇到他的時候說：你是不是矢板明夫？","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:41.818182+08:00","text":"顯然他也不認識矢板明夫。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之：他問","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:42.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:43.600000+08:00","text":"是矢板先生嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之：他問","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:43.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:44.600000+08:00","text":"矢板明夫說是，然後他就動手了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:44.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:45.600000+08:00","text":"對，就動手了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:44.666667+08:00","text":"預謀的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:45.666667+08:00","text":"我知道這就是預謀的啊。","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:47.600000+08:00","text":"他無冤無仇……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:47.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:50+08:00","text":"對，無冤無仇，預謀啊！","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:51.714286+08:00","text":"那為什麼會這樣被鎖定？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:51.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:52.714286+08:00","text":"對，為什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:55.600000+08:00","text":"所以從這些跡證看起來，應該很像……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:57.714286+08:00","text":"很像是習近平派來打他的？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:57.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:58.714286+08:00","text":"好，OK、OK。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:00:59.818182+08:00","text":"跟湯偉雄的案子有點接近。很像？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:00:59.818182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T12:01:02.400000+08:00","text":"好，OK。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱主任委員垂正","start":"2026-07-29T12:01:02.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:01:09.600000+08:00","text":"當然，這個事情已經進入司法系統，我是就我們知道的部分來跟委員報告。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:01:10.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:01:17+08:00","text":"OK、OK，不過我要先說，如果是習近平派來的跨境鎮壓，我一定予以譴責，但到底是不是預謀？","quality":0.658},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:01:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:01:19.500000+08:00","text":"我不知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:01:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:01:33.866667+08:00","text":"因為我2019年被民進黨騙過，那個時候有一個王立強跑到澳洲去接受訪問，說他是大陸007，花2,000萬介入韓國瑜的選舉，幫韓國瑜勝選，當時的民進黨政府說：太嚴重了啦！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:01:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:01:35.800000+08:00","text":"怎麼會發生這樣的事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:01:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:01:36.428571+08:00","text":"這是國安事件！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:01:36.571429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:01:37.857143+08:00","text":"趕快派高層去澳洲瞭解。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:01:38.857143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:01:53.714286+08:00","text":"瞭解完之後，說有一對向心夫婦，又把向心夫婦給抓了，結果幾年後，王立強被證明是一個詐騙犯，被澳洲驅逐出境，向心夫婦被扣留在臺灣好幾年，後來也出境了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:01:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:02:01.600000+08:00","text":"所以我現在覺得，如果是的話，我跟你們一樣、也跟大家一樣生氣，但是是不是？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:02:02.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:02:09.846154+08:00","text":"因為民進黨以前操作過，所以我會想多聽一下相關的判斷，讓大家瞭解一下會不會又是王立強事件的翻版。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-07-29T12:02:10.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-29T12:02:11.800000+08:00","text":"謝謝主委的說明，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-29T12:02:12.300000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-29T12:02:15.442857+08:00","text":"下一位請翁曉玲委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":855,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（11時48分）主席好，麻煩請陸委會主委，謝謝。"],["主席：請邱主委。"],["邱主任委員垂正：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：主委好。我想請教一下，因為最近陸委會常常出國，都要去宣傳一下兩岸政策。"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有常常出國。"],["葉委員元之：沒有常常出國，好，沒關係，你可以講一下頻率是多少，我們來看一個最近有引起爭議的報告，這是赴越南出國的報告，即「訪問越南暨說明兩岸政策報告」，類似訪問其他國家去說明兩岸政策的這種活動，今年總共要辦幾場？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，因為我們全年出國的費用不到800萬。"],["葉委員元之：總共辦幾場？"],["邱主任委員垂正：目前已經出訪的，除了越南，還有一場是有到日本。"],["葉委員元之：所以目前是2場，那接下來還要去哪裡？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們如果有經費的話，因為很多國家來邀請陸委會去做合作，包括像我們同仁……"],["葉委員元之：主委，我的質詢時間有限，你回答問題……"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們還有……"],["葉委員元之：通常是這樣子，我們在質詢的時候如果官員開始扯東扯西的話，感覺就必有貓膩，我問的問題那麼簡單，就是接下來還打算去幾場？我都還沒有開始問我接下來的問題，你就開始扯別的。接下來還要去幾場？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，接下來我們可能會去歐洲、德國，還有去美國……"],["葉委員元之：還要去歐洲、還要去德國宣傳兩岸政策？"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有，去跟各國一起合作有關跨境鎮壓……"],["葉委員元之：我現在講的是要去訪問其他國家說明兩岸政策的活動還有幾場。"],["邱主任委員垂正：目前兩個比較……"],["葉委員元之：就這兩場嘛，是不是？"],["邱主任委員垂正：德國跟美國。"],["葉委員元之：德國跟美國？"],["邱主任委員垂正：是。"],["葉委員元之：去我是不反對，但是我真的希望去有一定的效益，我也希望回來的出國報告真的要好好寫，因為這個報告都是上網公開的。同時間大家認為，除了陸委會之外，大家對僑委會的報告也是覺得寫得很爛，我有看到僑委會委員長徐佳青，當然這跟你無關，他是你的同僚，他回應說是機密，不然是要給中共看嗎？這種回答實在是令人覺得很可笑！就算不是要給中共看，也不要讓其他國家笑，你也稍微寫得有點水準嘛！對不對？就算有一個不能夠公開的非機密版，但是也要寫得有水準，有水準跟看是兩回事，所以我不太能接受徐佳青的說法，因為今天不是質詢他，但我也希望陸委會以後有類似的報告，有機密不用公開，但是你公開的東西就是要有水準，因為這個代表國家的文書。","我就針對這一份訪問越南的報告，我自己是覺得有幾件事情還滿怪的，第一個，在第2頁的部分，我是沒秀出來，裡面有提到副主委沈有忠訪問了很多越南的智庫，他在跟智庫溝通的過程當中，當然有說明政府致力於維持現狀，但是他說他跟越南的智庫呼籲北京當局要跟我民選政府對話。我是不太懂啦！陸委會跑去越南，然後跟越南的智庫去呼籲北京跟我們對話幹嘛？越南裡面是有北京的官方代表喔？你要呼籲，跑到越南去跟越南智庫呼籲幹嘛？這種東西寫出來就是讓人家覺得到底有去沒去？到底是去幹嘛？去越南智庫呼籲北京跟我們對話？主委，你要不要去問一下副主委到底去幹嘛？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我清楚。委員，這樣好不好，我們的參訪很多細部也不方便完全揭露……"],["葉委員元之：我剛剛有講，不方便揭露不要揭露，但你揭露的部分要有水準嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：好……"],["葉委員元之：你讓其他國家看到我們的陸委會跑到越南，去跟越南智庫呼籲北京跟我們對話，這就沒水準嘛！"],["邱主任委員垂正：未來的摘要版我們一定配合委員說的要有水準。"],["葉委員元之：對嘛！好不好？這是第一件事情。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是，謝謝。"],["葉委員元之：等一下一起講。第二個是心得與建議，這個心得與建議有寫跟沒寫一樣，第一點，越南追求獨立自主外交，應爭取越方深化與臺合作。不然呢？不然我們不要跟他爭取合作嗎？你們的心得是……難道回來的心得會說越南不怎麼樣，我們不要跟他合作嗎？這個心得是有去跟沒去都可以得到的心得，大家當然就會質疑你們去沒有意義嘛！第二個更好笑，這個就跟主委好好請教一下，現在我們的兩岸政策到底是什麼？第二點叫做建議加強臺越中智庫交流。我不懂啊！民進黨不是很多人都在說兩岸任何交流都是統戰嗎？那為什麼在陸委會的報告裡面會說要建議臺越中三方交流？到底是要交流，還是不要交流？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，事實上，我們在對等尊嚴、相互尊重，包括對岸的這些學者、智庫，我們都願意跟他們交流。"],["葉委員元之：對啊！"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們始終都沒有停掉。這裡只是對於越南也非常關注兩岸關係，還有南海一些動態的問題，特別是中國大陸積極地對南海地區的各種擴張巡航，這也造成週遭國家的一些風險，所以他們也很想了解臺灣的經驗。"],["葉委員元之：這我們都知道，我是要知道……陸委會現在既然建議臺越中智庫交流，那你要怎麼促成這件事情？然後你們是跟誰建議？陸委會參訪完有了這個心得，你不是路人，你也不是一般人，你是政府官方代表，所以你要去建議誰去加強臺越中智庫交流？然後要建議跟哪一個中國大陸的智庫交流？因為你是官方，你是建議誰嘛？你是建議賴清德總統嗎？還是卓榮泰院長？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們智庫交流還有很多學者……"],["葉委員元之：對，是建議誰嘛？現在回來，副主委有這個心得，覺得要跟臺越中智庫交流，那他是建議誰？他是建議賴清德總統嗎？還是誰？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，我們沈副主委是帶著一群學者去，不是他一個人，這些學者……很多智庫……"],["葉委員元之：不是啦，這個報告是陸委會寫的嘛，主委、主委、主委，大家的文字理解能力都沒有那麼差啦，他去參訪回來有心得，建議要跟中國大陸的智庫及越南三方多交流，陸委會一定往上建議嘛。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們都會。"],["葉委員元之：你向卓榮泰還是建議賴總統建議？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們都會。"],["葉委員元之：你建議要跟哪一個……"],["邱主任委員垂正：包括在臺灣的智庫，我們也會建議他們跟越南多交流。"],["葉委員元之：你建議跟中國大陸哪個智庫交流比較不會有統戰的危機？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，只要是對等尊嚴、相互尊重，兩邊有理性的人應該坐下來好好聊聊，事實上我們……"],["葉委員元之：是哪些人嘛？不要講空話，不要講空話。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我們過去……"],["葉委員元之：不要講空話。"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟中國大陸的……"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，主委，我了解了，就代表有去、沒去真的都一樣啦，你都講不清楚，沒關係。"],["邱主任委員垂正：委員，你不能這樣講，你要給我時間講……"],["葉委員元之：你已經講很久了，我知道你要講什麼。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我請沈副主委去跟你報告，好不好？"],["葉委員元之：我都已經知道你要講什麼了。"],["邱主任委員垂正：有些事不方便在這邊講清楚。"],["葉委員元之：主委，你一直這樣講，因為我聽很多了，你的建議是：我們當然建議兩岸多交流，但是要在對等、尊嚴的情況下交流……然後呢？但是我們還是建議交流，可是要對等、尊嚴，但是現在就不夠對等、尊嚴，所以就沒辦法交流，就是一直繞圈圈。我現在質疑的是，如果你去參訪、交流回來，得到的是繞圈圈的建議及心得，那你到底去幹嘛？"],["邱主任委員垂正：目前兩岸的智庫交流仍在進行，我們的學術單位也跟中國大陸做很多交流，我們都有掌握。"],["葉委員元之：有兩個建議：第一個，去參訪要有效益。第二個，上網的報告不要讓人家看了覺得有點怪。"],["邱主任委員垂正：我了解。"],["葉委員元之：再來是希望有一個完整版的報告，你不要公開，因為有出訪就要有一個完整版嘛，如果有些委員想對於完整版監督，希望可以提供。另外，如果是機密可以開秘密會議，可是不能夠像徐佳青那樣，就是我寫的爛又怎麼樣，因為我不想被中共看！我不能接受政府官員用這種方式來掩蓋。"],["邱主任委員垂正：越南的參訪案雖然只有公布3頁，事實上真正的報告有三十幾頁，有一萬三千多字，非常的豐富，以後有機會的話我請沈副主委……"],["葉委員元之：可以啊。"],["邱主任委員垂正：涉及機密的部分再向您做報告。"],["葉委員元之：對，如果那麼豐富的話，沒有機密的部分應該也滿豐富的，上網的報告好像有點太應付。主席可不可以再給我一點時間？因為剛剛主委講到一個話題我也滿有興趣，你剛剛提到矢板明夫嘛。"],["邱主任委員垂正：是其他……"],["葉委員元之：剛剛不是你講矢板明夫嗎？跨境鎮壓不是你講的嗎？"],["邱主任委員垂正：我有講跨境鎮壓但沒有講到矢板明夫。"],["葉委員元之：你沒有講矢板明夫是不是？想跟你請教一下，矢板明夫事件如果是跨境鎮壓，我們全部都譴責啦，如果是跨境鎮壓，但是到底根據什麼認為一定是跨境鎮壓？跨境鎮壓就是習近平派人來的嘛。我看到新聞報導，矢板明夫要去的演講會，蕭美琴副總統本來也要去，後來蕭美琴副總統沒去，這是新聞報導，我看到總統府也沒有出來否認，應該是這樣。然後民進黨立委，我就不要說哪一位了，還有一些綠營的名嘴就說，那就對了，為什麼呢？因為本來對岸是派6個人來，後來離開了4個人，最後留下打人的廖港發加上1個人把風，只留2個人，這就說明原來那6個可能是衝著蕭美琴副總統來的，所以來6個人，後來得知副總統不來，就離開了4個人，只留下1個人打矢板明夫，所以這一定是跨境鎮壓。","但是我覺得很不合理，也請主委判斷一下，所以我們的副總統維安這麼差嗎？只要6個人就可以打得到副總統，那這6個都是武林高手喔？是張無忌加上白眉鷹王、紫衫龍王加上楊過跟郭靖，是不是？還是最強老爸、或是洛基？這些情節讓我感到很荒謬，我覺得跨境鎮壓……我先說態度，如果是跨境鎮壓全臺灣都不能接受，我相信廖先翔也不能接受，大家都不能接受，可是事實是什麼，大家要把它說明清楚，而不是用推論的，來了6個就是要對我們副總統怎麼樣，這6個人是怎麼樣？都是身懷絕技、武林高手還是我們副總統的維安那麼差？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：不管從哪一個點來看，都有問題嘛！所以你認為現在有哪些很明確的證據說明了矢板明夫真的是習近平派人來打的？"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟委員報告，有一些港人也曾經遭受跨境鎮壓，像湯偉雄這對夫妻，我們都有去瞭解，它跟矢板明夫先生這個案子非常接近，就是打完他就跑，況且……"],["葉委員元之：打完就跑就一定是習近平派來的喔？"],["邱主任委員垂正：沒有。另外一方面，我們也看到它有集團化事先部署，而且目前地檢署也在掌握他的資訊，他還回報說任務完成……"],["葉委員元之：你說他跟習近平回報？"],["邱主任委員垂正：對。然後我們有去關切矢板明夫，我親自去看矢板明夫，只要是跨境鎮壓，我們都會去關切。矢板明夫告訴我，這個歹徒遇到他的時候說：你是不是矢板明夫？顯然他也不認識矢板明夫。"],["葉委員元之：他問：是矢板先生嗎？矢板明夫說是，然後他就動手了。"],["邱主任委員垂正：對，就動手了。"],["葉委員元之：預謀的？我知道這就是預謀的啊。"],["邱主任委員垂正：他無冤無仇……"],["葉委員元之：對，無冤無仇，預謀啊！"],["邱主任委員垂正：那為什麼會這樣被鎖定？"],["葉委員元之：對，為什麼？"],["邱主任委員垂正：所以從這些跡證看起來，應該很像……"],["葉委員元之：很像是習近平派來打他的？好，OK、OK。"],["邱主任委員垂正：跟湯偉雄的案子有點接近。"],["葉委員元之：很像？好，OK。"],["邱主任委員垂正：當然，這個事情已經進入司法系統，我是就我們知道的部分來跟委員報告。"],["葉委員元之：OK、OK，不過我要先說，如果是習近平派來的跨境鎮壓，我一定予以譴責，但到底是不是預謀？我不知道。因為我2019年被民進黨騙過，那個時候有一個王立強跑到澳洲去接受訪問，說他是大陸007，花2,000萬介入韓國瑜的選舉，幫韓國瑜勝選，當時的民進黨政府說：太嚴重了啦！怎麼會發生這樣的事情？這是國安事件！趕快派高層去澳洲瞭解。瞭解完之後，說有一對向心夫婦，又把向心夫婦給抓了，結果幾年後，王立強被證明是一個詐騙犯，被澳洲驅逐出境，向心夫婦被扣留在臺灣好幾年，後來也出境了。所以我現在覺得，如果是的話，我跟你們一樣、也跟大家一樣生氣，但是是不是？因為民進黨以前操作過，所以我會想多聽一下相關的判斷，讓大家瞭解一下會不會又是王立強事件的翻版。謝謝主委的說明，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員垂正：謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請翁曉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":156,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-15-20","speakers":["廖先翔","許忠信","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","王美惠","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","黃捷","李坤城","李柏毅","許宇甄","謝龍介","葉元之","翁曉玲","徐欣瑩","張智倫","高金素梅","吳宗憲","林德福"],"page_start":81,"meetingDate":["2026-07-29"],"gazette_id":"1156801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156801_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請大陸委員會主任委員、內政部部長、法務部、警政署、移民署、財團法人海峽交流基金\n會就「國人赴陸失聯情況及政府因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、邀請內政部部長、警\n政署署長就「『萊爾校長』小編遭警突襲查水表事件，檢視警察執法標準與行政中立」進行專題\n報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1156801_00010"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}