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早"},{"start":23.36,"end":27.66,"text":"那最近我覺得三中一題大家受到社會很高度的關注"},{"start":27.86,"end":30.82,"text":"不少民眾大家都希望能夠尊嚴走完"},{"start":30.82,"end":32.16,"text":"人生最後一哩路"},{"start":32.52,"end":35.66,"text":"可是這也是因為現行病人自主權利法"},{"start":35.66,"end":37.9,"text":"跟安寧緩和醫療條例"},{"start":37.9,"end":39.74,"text":"並未明文規定說"},{"start":39.74,"end":44.400000000000006,"text":"我們的斷食三中導致社會各界對法律的界線"},{"start":44.400000000000006,"end":45.68,"text":"產生不少的疑慮"},{"start":46.24,"end":48.94,"text":"那衛福部跟安寧醫學會都表示"},{"start":49.32,"end":52.04,"text":"斷食三中並不等於安寧療護"},{"start":52.04,"end":54.42,"text":"那也可能事實上有法律風險"},{"start":54.42,"end":56.519999999999996,"text":"所以問法務部如果病人表明"},{"start":56.620000000000005,"end":59.42,"text":"要透過不吃不喝結束生命"},{"start":59.42,"end":62.160000000000004,"text":"而家屬或醫護人員選擇配合不勸阻"},{"start":62.160000000000004,"end":65.02000000000001,"text":"甚至停止提供食物獲得水分"},{"start":65.02000000000001,"end":68.62,"text":"那是否涉及到刑法的第275條"},{"start":68.62,"end":74.10000000000001,"text":"那還有遺棄致死罪跟過失致死罪及或其他的刑事責任"},{"start":74.10000000000001,"end":75.44,"text":"如果有爭議的話"},{"start":75.44,"end":80.80000000000001,"text":"那衛福部是否會去跟衛福部一起研擬好訂定之一"},{"start":80.80000000000001,"end":84.68,"text":"來明確化劃分哪些是屬於尊重病人自主"},{"start":84.68,"end":86.24000000000001,"text":"哪些是可以予約法界"},{"start":86.24000000000001,"end":89.78,"text":"避免家屬跟醫護人員因法律不明而承擔風險"},{"start":92.18,"end":94.58000000000001,"text":"跟召委報告"},{"start":94.92,"end":97.86000000000001,"text":"因為這個議題真的是牽涉的"},{"start":100.06,"end":103.02000000000001,"text":"爭議範圍很廣也很大也很深"},{"start":103.02000000000001,"end":106.60000000000001,"text":"因為這個涉及到生命法意"},{"start":106.60000000000001,"end":109.4,"text":"還有憲政的價值"},{"start":109.4,"end":111.06,"text":"還有醫療的倫理"},{"start":111.06,"end":113.44000000000001,"text":"所以在這個部分目前"},{"start":113.46,"end":116.25999999999999,"text":"我們知道有病人自主權利法"},{"start":116.25999999999999,"end":121.28,"text":"那這個是屬於比較消極的"},{"start":121.28,"end":124.17999999999999,"text":"然後是醫護人員來配合"},{"start":124.17999999999999,"end":129.04,"text":"那但是如果是安樂死或者是尊嚴善終的話"},{"start":129.04,"end":132.76,"text":"那這個可能是有比較積極的"},{"start":132.76,"end":137.26,"text":"就是主動的安樂死或者是依住死亡的這樣的一個情況"},{"start":137.26,"end":143.26,"text":"那本部的立場我們刑法是我們的主管法規"},{"start":143.28,"end":146.98,"text":"那原則上當然是禁止故意剝奪他人的生命"},{"start":146.98,"end":150.62,"text":"但所以如果像以安樂死來說的話"},{"start":150.62,"end":152.66,"text":"如果沒有法律明文規定"},{"start":152.66,"end":157.95999999999998,"text":"那依法就是會涉及刑法殺人罪或者是加工自殺罪的規定"},{"start":157.95999999999998,"end":160.14,"text":"那當然如果立法政策決定"},{"start":160.14,"end":163.23999999999998,"text":"例外容許規定情形的安樂死"},{"start":163.23999999999998,"end":165.7,"text":"那我們一定要在構成要件"},{"start":165.7,"end":170.14,"text":"還有程序跟監督機制跟免責範圍這些"},{"start":170.14,"end":172.44,"text":"面向都要做一個刑法的特別規定"},{"start":172.52,"end":174.1,"text":"我想說我剛才有問法務部"},{"start":174.1,"end":176.76,"text":"未來是不是可以跟衛福部一起共同討論"},{"start":176.76,"end":178.44,"text":"要有些指引出來"},{"start":178.44,"end":179.34,"text":"這可以做到嗎"},{"start":179.34,"end":183.64,"text":"如果立法政策還有社會的共識是要走這個方向的話"},{"start":183.64,"end":191.88,"text":"那本部一定是會盡力的協助衛福部來訂定相關的規則規範"},{"start":191.88,"end":193.94,"text":"好謝謝陳司法那陳司法請回"},{"start":193.94,"end":196.44,"text":"那接下來要請衛福部的部長"},{"start":196.44,"end":199.52,"text":"那部長現行必能自主權力法規定"},{"start":199.52,"end":202.56,"text":"病人必須符合五種法定情形"},{"start":202.56,"end":207.02,"text":"包括末期病人不可逆轉昏迷永久植入人"},{"start":207.02,"end":210.62,"text":"或是急重度失智以及主管機關公告的其他情形"},{"start":210.62,"end":216.22,"text":"才能依照那個預立醫療決定停止維持生命治療"},{"start":216.22,"end":218.66000000000003,"text":"可是這些條件到底是誰說了算"},{"start":218.66000000000003,"end":222.12,"text":"是組織醫師一個人決定還是要其他專科醫師一起確認"},{"start":222.12,"end":224.42000000000002,"text":"如果醫療團隊意見不同的話"},{"start":224.42000000000002,"end":227.22,"text":"到底最後是由誰拍板決定"},{"start":227.22,"end":229.12,"text":"好跟委員說明"},{"start":229.12,"end":231.92000000000002,"text":"當然在現行的病主法裡面"},{"start":231.92000000000002,"end":234.22,"text":"因為我們也在進行修法"},{"start":234.22,"end":236.72,"text":"在現行的病主法裡面"},{"start":236.72,"end":243.92000000000002,"text":"是要第一個階段是要有兩位具相關專科資格的醫師去做診斷"},{"start":243.92000000000002,"end":245.62,"text":"看看有沒有符合這些條件"},{"start":245.62,"end":246.62,"text":"這是第一步"},{"start":246.62,"end":250.82,"text":"那第二步呢他要在召會這個安寧的團隊"},{"start":250.82,"end":254.82,"text":"而且這個召會至少要有兩次的召會去確認"},{"start":254.82,"end":259.52,"text":"然後就啟動後續的這個預立醫療決定的這個執行"},{"start":259.52,"end":261.52,"text":"程序上是要這樣"},{"start":261.52,"end":266.82,"text":"好那我覺得什麼時候才可以開始預立醫療決定"},{"start":266.82,"end":270.52,"text":"而且是只要曾經符合條件就可以執行"},{"start":270.52,"end":273.62,"text":"還是每一次都要必須要重新確認病人"},{"start":273.62,"end":276.32,"text":"目前現在是否符合資格"},{"start":276.32,"end":280.62,"text":"還有沒有一套全國一致的那個判斷的標準"},{"start":280.62,"end":283.71999999999997,"text":"還有避免不同醫院有不同做法影響病人的權益"},{"start":284.72,"end":289.22,"text":"跟委員說明就是預立醫療決定就是隨時都可以進行"},{"start":289.22,"end":294.22,"text":"只要經過ACP預立醫療照護諮商的過程就可以去簽署"},{"start":294.22,"end":297.22,"text":"只是要啟動的時候就像委員提到的"},{"start":297.22,"end":301.42,"text":"因為這個病人的病況他是會變化的"},{"start":301.42,"end":304.22,"text":"所以等於是每一次要啟動"},{"start":304.22,"end":306.72,"text":"按照現在的做法是每一次要啟動"},{"start":306.72,"end":308.72,"text":"當然都要經過剛剛的程序"},{"start":308.72,"end":313.42,"text":"兩位相關專科醫師判斷有沒有符合這些條件"},{"start":313.42,"end":315.42,"text":"因為我們現在的條件"},{"start":315.42,"end":318.42,"text":"前面四款是比較明確"},{"start":318.42,"end":321.92,"text":"第五款就是由我們這個來公布"},{"start":321.92,"end":323.92,"text":"大概都是屬於一些罕見疾病"},{"start":323.92,"end":328.42,"text":"所以執行上我們都有相關的這個訓練課程"},{"start":328.42,"end":332.42,"text":"跟一些指引來讓大家知道怎麼執行"},{"start":332.42,"end":334.42,"text":"好 那部長請回號"},{"start":334.42,"end":336.42,"text":"接下來請國教署署長"},{"start":337.42,"end":340.42,"text":"好 請國教署署長"},{"start":343.42,"end":348.42,"text":"署長 一直以來我就非常關心"},{"start":348.42,"end":352.42,"text":"而且過去在民間也在處理所謂的不當對待"},{"start":352.42,"end":356.92,"text":"那台北市事實上四年就扒起重大的惡孽"},{"start":356.92,"end":359.42,"text":"大概超過了100位以上"},{"start":359.42,"end":363.42,"text":"大概115位的孩子受到很大傷害"},{"start":363.42,"end":368.42,"text":"而且這扒起案件高達有618次的不當管教"},{"start":368.42,"end":370.42,"text":"甚至最讓人家覺得心痛的"},{"start":370.42,"end":372.42,"text":"在台北市事實上有性侵跟性毀屑"},{"start":372.42,"end":376.42,"text":"已經超過半數了 有66件"},{"start":376.42,"end":378.42,"text":"在這樣的比例底下"},{"start":378.42,"end":380.42,"text":"當然我們的蔣事長就講得很好聽"},{"start":380.42,"end":382.42,"text":"尤其在培若米札案件之後"},{"start":382.42,"end":385.42,"text":"他有出來道歉說自己是台北市的大家長"},{"start":385.42,"end":387.42,"text":"有責任保護孩子 會檢討改進"},{"start":387.42,"end":391.42,"text":"讓法令與政策更完備 避免類似的事情發生"},{"start":391.42,"end":393.42,"text":"講完之後呢"},{"start":393.42,"end":396.42,"text":"三年又發生了七起的重大惡孽案件"},{"start":396.42,"end":399.42,"text":"造成這麼多孩子的傷害"},{"start":399.42,"end":401.42,"text":"所以就想來問部長幾個"},{"start":401.42,"end":404.42,"text":"目前我們現在 我們的"},{"start":404.42,"end":408.42,"text":"來我們辦公室跟我們討論的案子裡面"},{"start":408.42,"end":410.42,"text":"我們想問幾個"},{"start":410.42,"end":412.42,"text":"就是說到底心理諮商依法規"},{"start":412.42,"end":414.42,"text":"我到底可做不可做"},{"start":414.42,"end":418.42,"text":"培若米札案3月12號我們開完記者會"},{"start":418.42,"end":420.42,"text":"就可以申請心理諮商"},{"start":420.42,"end":423.42,"text":"可是之前他是完全不能申請心理諮商"},{"start":423.42,"end":427.42,"text":"為什麼在2024年3月12號"},{"start":427.42,"end":429.42,"text":"我剛進來開完記者會"},{"start":429.42,"end":431.42,"text":"就可以申請心理諮商"},{"start":431.42,"end":433.42,"text":"可是在之前他們是求助我們"},{"start":433.42,"end":435.42,"text":"那問題來了"},{"start":435.42,"end":437.42,"text":"如果他2024年申請心理諮商可以"},{"start":437.42,"end":439.42,"text":"為什麼2025年又加幼兒園"},{"start":439.42,"end":441.42,"text":"又找上我們"},{"start":441.42,"end":443.42,"text":"說他沒有提供心理諮商的費用"},{"start":443.42,"end":446.42,"text":"同年2025年一樣8月"},{"start":446.42,"end":448.42,"text":"為什麼一個進寶兒公館幼兒園"},{"start":448.42,"end":450.42,"text":"又可以申請心理諮商"},{"start":450.42,"end":454.42,"text":"法治社會今天一個公部門在執行的時候"},{"start":454.42,"end":456.42,"text":"一下可以心理諮商一下不行"},{"start":456.42,"end":458.42,"text":"法定不是說他們可以提供心理諮商嗎"},{"start":458.42,"end":460.42,"text":"他們可以受到這樣的服務嗎"},{"start":460.42,"end":462.42,"text":"結果12月一樣"},{"start":462.42,"end":466.42,"text":"歐洲學校的幼兒園又是不能申請心理諮商"},{"start":466.42,"end":468.42,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":468.42,"end":470.42,"text":"有這麼多套標準嗎"},{"start":470.42,"end":472.42,"text":"那個心理諮商的依據標準是什麼"},{"start":472.42,"end":474.42,"text":"總部的每次我都在幫跟案家開完記者會"},{"start":474.42,"end":476.42,"text":"他就可以拿到心理諮商"},{"start":476.42,"end":478.42,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":478.42,"end":480.42,"text":"基本上是可以的"},{"start":480.42,"end":482.42,"text":"而且可以我們還有補助"},{"start":482.42,"end":484.42,"text":"那在114學年"},{"start":484.42,"end":486.42,"text":"這個學年快要結束這個學年"},{"start":486.42,"end":490.42,"text":"我們補助了2600萬其中台北市等等22縣市"},{"start":490.42,"end":493.42,"text":"那政府補助就表示這個是需要"},{"start":493.42,"end":495.42,"text":"而且也有來協助"},{"start":495.42,"end":497.42,"text":"那至於特殊個案"},{"start":497.42,"end":498.42,"text":"剛剛委員已經講了5個個案"},{"start":498.42,"end":499.42,"text":"有些有有些沒有"},{"start":499.42,"end":501.42,"text":"這個我們馬上在一天內了解"},{"start":501.42,"end":502.42,"text":"跟您回報"},{"start":502.42,"end":506.42,"text":"好那更讓我覺得很難以接受的"},{"start":506.42,"end":508.42,"text":"為什麼是監視器我不能看"},{"start":508.42,"end":511.42,"text":"好培羅米達也是因為監視器不能看"},{"start":511.42,"end":514.4200000000001,"text":"就調查報告在2020年的時候不成立"},{"start":514.4200000000001,"end":518.4200000000001,"text":"所以2023年結果有多少小孩"},{"start":518.4200000000001,"end":520.4200000000001,"text":"一你不處理的時候"},{"start":520.4200000000001,"end":522.4200000000001,"text":"隔年39個孩子受害"},{"start":522.4200000000001,"end":523.4200000000001,"text":"都是性侵性違憲"},{"start":523.4200000000001,"end":525.4200000000001,"text":"所以到底監視器可不可以調查"},{"start":525.4200000000001,"end":527.4200000000001,"text":"結果又加又可以"},{"start":527.4200000000001,"end":528.4200000000001,"text":"然後進保額又可以"},{"start":528.4200000000001,"end":529.4200000000001,"text":"到了歐洲學校"},{"start":529.4200000000001,"end":531.4200000000001,"text":"為什麼又不可以"},{"start":531.4200000000001,"end":533.4200000000001,"text":"這個標準到底是什麼"},{"start":533.4200000000001,"end":535.4200000000001,"text":"甚至我也想問調查報告"},{"start":535.4200000000001,"end":537.4200000000001,"text":"培羅米達家長問說"},{"start":537.4200000000001,"end":538.4200000000001,"text":"那我的調查結果是什麼"},{"start":538.4200000000001,"end":540.4200000000001,"text":"結果市府回答說"},{"start":540.42,"end":542.42,"text":"你去看新聞稿"},{"start":542.42,"end":543.42,"text":"看我的聲明稿"},{"start":543.42,"end":545.42,"text":"為什麼一個調查報告"},{"start":545.42,"end":546.42,"text":"我不能知道結果"},{"start":546.42,"end":548.42,"text":"然後我必須看聲明稿"},{"start":548.42,"end":550.42,"text":"看政府的一個新聞稿"},{"start":550.42,"end":552.42,"text":"我才知道我的調查結果"},{"start":552.42,"end":556.42,"text":"我的孩子有沒有被你們在討論的時候"},{"start":556.42,"end":559.42,"text":"確定他到底有沒有受到傷害"},{"start":559.42,"end":560.42,"text":"怎麼會去看新聞稿"},{"start":560.42,"end":563.42,"text":"不是給我一個正式的通知"},{"start":563.42,"end":564.42,"text":"而且更特別的是"},{"start":564.42,"end":566.42,"text":"如果要看這樣的一個"},{"start":566.42,"end":568.42,"text":"我要看調查報告看到什麼東西"},{"start":568.42,"end":569.42,"text":"看到一大堆遮蔽"},{"start":569.42,"end":570.42,"text":"要嘛就是黑的"},{"start":570.42,"end":571.42,"text":"要嘛就是說"},{"start":571.42,"end":574.42,"text":"從證人陳述的這些東西都不能看"},{"start":574.42,"end":576.42,"text":"我只能看到底下的一行字"},{"start":576.42,"end":577.42,"text":"這一行字"},{"start":577.42,"end":579.42,"text":"到底我要看到的是什麼"},{"start":579.42,"end":580.42,"text":"我孩子的整個"},{"start":580.42,"end":583.42,"text":"我們的陳述對方的陳述"},{"start":583.42,"end":585.42,"text":"為什麼行為人可以看到完整的"},{"start":585.42,"end":587.42,"text":"那反而是傷害人"},{"start":587.42,"end":588.42,"text":"不能看到"},{"start":588.42,"end":590.42,"text":"這也是我這三年來"},{"start":590.42,"end":591.42,"text":"我們辦公室一直在爭取"},{"start":591.42,"end":593.42,"text":"可是至今都還是有這樣子的問題"},{"start":593.42,"end":596.42,"text":"調查報告到底有什麼不可以看到"},{"start":596.42,"end":597.42,"text":"筆錄在記錄的時候"},{"start":597.42,"end":600.42,"text":"我們在警方筆錄的時候都可以看"},{"start":600.42,"end":601.42,"text":"為什麼事實上是"},{"start":601.42,"end":603.42,"text":"這樣子的一個調查報告"},{"start":603.42,"end":604.42,"text":"要嘛就遮蔽到整個黑的"},{"start":604.42,"end":606.42,"text":"要嘛就是貼上一個東西說"},{"start":606.42,"end":610.42,"text":"因為從證人陳述可特定的人"},{"start":610.42,"end":612.42,"text":"未保障關係人權益都不可以提供"},{"start":612.42,"end":614.42,"text":"那我看這一坨黑的東西"},{"start":614.42,"end":616.42,"text":"我到底看到是什麼東西"},{"start":616.42,"end":618.42,"text":"甚至一頁我只看到兩行字"},{"start":618.42,"end":619.42,"text":"其他的我都看不到"},{"start":619.42,"end":620.42,"text":"那我也不知道調查報告"},{"start":620.42,"end":623.42,"text":"為什麼又會是這樣狀況"},{"start":623.42,"end":625.42,"text":"好 剛剛委員有兩點"},{"start":625.42,"end":627.42,"text":"一個是監視器一個是報告"},{"start":627.42,"end":629.42,"text":"那剛才委員也舉了"},{"start":629.42,"end":631.42,"text":"至少兩個案例來做對照"},{"start":631.42,"end":634.42,"text":"那在114年7月份的全國局長會議之後"},{"start":634.42,"end":637.42,"text":"我們有承諾在監視器這一部分的調閱"},{"start":637.42,"end":639.42,"text":"應該要有一個合理"},{"start":639.42,"end":642.42,"text":"跟適當的來配合調查的一個做法"},{"start":642.42,"end":645.42,"text":"所以在當年的10月29號就訂出來"},{"start":645.42,"end":646.42,"text":"那委員也知道"},{"start":646.42,"end":647.42,"text":"我們再送給委員"},{"start":647.42,"end":648.42,"text":"委員也很多指導"},{"start":648.42,"end":649.42,"text":"那至於報告的部分"},{"start":649.42,"end":651.42,"text":"大概都有一些相關相應的"},{"start":651.42,"end":653.42,"text":"類似的這個注意事項跟做法"},{"start":653.42,"end":655.42,"text":"那剛剛委員講的兩個個案"},{"start":655.42,"end":658.42,"text":"有一些不特定的情況下做的作為"},{"start":658.42,"end":660.42,"text":"好像讓委員覺得有點質疑"},{"start":660.42,"end":661.42,"text":"我們也一樣"},{"start":661.42,"end":662.42,"text":"在這個會後我們馬上"},{"start":662.42,"end":663.42,"text":"搜集這兩個個案做個對比"},{"start":663.42,"end":664.42,"text":"在什麼樣的情況下"},{"start":664.42,"end":666.42,"text":"他會做那種判斷"},{"start":666.42,"end":667.42,"text":"有沒有依照規定"},{"start":667.42,"end":668.42,"text":"以及他實現上"},{"start":668.42,"end":670.42,"text":"是否當時注意事項之後或之前"},{"start":670.42,"end":671.42,"text":"再來一個是"},{"start":671.42,"end":672.42,"text":"剛剛委員有提到"},{"start":672.42,"end":675.42,"text":"這整個在調閱報告的時候"},{"start":675.42,"end":677.42,"text":"讓委員看到有一些感覺"},{"start":677.42,"end":678.42,"text":"不知道這個案情在說什麼"},{"start":678.42,"end":679.42,"text":"很多遮蔽"},{"start":679.42,"end":681.42,"text":"這些遮蔽如果他是符合相關的法規"},{"start":681.42,"end":683.42,"text":"那我們也要看他的適當性"},{"start":683.42,"end":685.42,"text":"這些我們都進行比較具體的監視"},{"start":685.42,"end":686.42,"text":"不能遮到一個字都看不到"},{"start":686.42,"end":688.42,"text":"整片是黑的印給我們做什麼"},{"start":688.42,"end":689.42,"text":"印給家長做什麼"},{"start":689.42,"end":691.42,"text":"甚至有更關心的叫停止"},{"start":691.42,"end":695.42,"text":"本來就希望把家害人跟孩子隔開"},{"start":695.42,"end":696.42,"text":"停止了嗎"},{"start":696.42,"end":699.42,"text":"看這四個就知道根本都沒在停止"},{"start":699.42,"end":700.42,"text":"像幼家幼兒園"},{"start":700.42,"end":702.42,"text":"還到他們照樣他們"},{"start":702.42,"end":704.42,"text":"二樓的補習班繼續工作"},{"start":704.42,"end":705.42,"text":"孩子都還是會看到這個老師"},{"start":705.42,"end":707.42,"text":"害不害怕當然害怕"},{"start":707.42,"end":708.42,"text":"那一樣啊"},{"start":708.42,"end":710.42,"text":"進寶公館的這個幼兒園"},{"start":710.42,"end":711.42,"text":"一樣啊"},{"start":711.42,"end":713.42,"text":"無論在現場"},{"start":713.42,"end":716.42,"text":"那當然更不用講那個歐洲學校幼兒園"},{"start":716.42,"end":718.42,"text":"還是一樣在學校裡面"},{"start":718.42,"end":720.42,"text":"如果你的法規有停止"},{"start":720.42,"end":722.42,"text":"為什麼地方政府可以這樣做"},{"start":722.42,"end":724.42,"text":"所以家長就來問我們說"},{"start":724.42,"end":729.42,"text":"當地方政府如此的荒腔走板的時候"},{"start":729.42,"end":731.42,"text":"家長問要怎麼辦"},{"start":731.42,"end":732.42,"text":"他們要怎麼辦"},{"start":732.42,"end":733.42,"text":"只能走刑法嗎"},{"start":733.42,"end":736.42,"text":"或者找我們這些民代來開記者會嗎"},{"start":736.42,"end":738.42,"text":"還是繼續跟施暴者"},{"start":738.42,"end":741.42,"text":"孩子要繼續跟施暴老師在現場嗎"},{"start":741.42,"end":742.42,"text":"這合理嗎"},{"start":742.42,"end":746.42,"text":"本來就是希望孩子能夠還是繼續去上學"},{"start":746.42,"end":747.42,"text":"而不是孩子要被隔開"},{"start":747.42,"end":749.42,"text":"老師繼續去上班"},{"start":749.42,"end":752.42,"text":"剛剛委員所提到的三大題"},{"start":752.42,"end":753.42,"text":"三大題以及最後一題"},{"start":753.42,"end":755.42,"text":"這些我們都會具體的了解"},{"start":755.42,"end":758.42,"text":"包含最後所提到的停止的認定跟他的執行"},{"start":758.42,"end":759.42,"text":"以上補充"},{"start":759.42,"end":761.42,"text":"甚至現在更荒謬的是"},{"start":761.42,"end":765.42,"text":"講完在培若米的案件有出來道歉"},{"start":765.42,"end":766.42,"text":"說自己是台北市家長"},{"start":766.42,"end":767.42,"text":"有責任保護小孩"},{"start":767.42,"end":770.42,"text":"為什麼現在至今都不處理國賠"},{"start":770.42,"end":771.42,"text":"完全不處理國賠"},{"start":771.42,"end":774.42,"text":"然後不是承認自己的疏失嗎"},{"start":774.42,"end":775.42,"text":"為什麼不處理"},{"start":775.42,"end":777.42,"text":"所以我很贊成家長講的話就是說"},{"start":777.42,"end":780.42,"text":"今天他們受害了"},{"start":780.42,"end":782.42,"text":"結果繳的罰款是給政府"},{"start":782.42,"end":784.42,"text":"心理諮商他們要自己出"},{"start":784.42,"end":786.42,"text":"司法訴訟要他們自己出"},{"start":786.42,"end":790.42,"text":"那到底事實上是政府賺了滿盆滿缽之後"},{"start":790.42,"end":792.42,"text":"所有的代價事實上是家長要負擔"},{"start":792.42,"end":793.42,"text":"這合理嗎"},{"start":793.42,"end":796.42,"text":"怎麼會是國賠不去處理"},{"start":796.42,"end":799.42,"text":"然後家長要去走到刑事法的一個訴訟"},{"start":799.42,"end":802.42,"text":"最後變成事實上所有的"},{"start":802.42,"end":803.42,"text":"不管是律師費"},{"start":803.42,"end":806.42,"text":"所有甚至心理諮商都要他們承擔"},{"start":806.42,"end":809.42,"text":"所以法律到底是在保護加害人"},{"start":809.42,"end":811.42,"text":"還是保護受害人"},{"start":811.42,"end":814.42,"text":"還有地方政府怎麼樣保護我們的孩子"},{"start":814.42,"end":816.42,"text":"當他們沒有作為的時候"},{"start":816.42,"end":819.42,"text":"到底家長要怎麼辦"},{"start":819.42,"end":822.42,"text":"更何況我覺得像也要來問"},{"start":822.42,"end":826.42,"text":"也要來問外僑學校到底是不是"},{"start":826.42,"end":827.42,"text":"額安的死角"},{"start":827.42,"end":829.42,"text":"為什麼這樣提"},{"start":829.42,"end":833.42,"text":"當這個台北歐洲學校"},{"start":833.42,"end":835.42,"text":"家長來跟我們求助的時候"},{"start":835.42,"end":838.42,"text":"他提到他要調監視器"},{"start":838.42,"end":841.42,"text":"結果出事了拿什麼"},{"start":841.42,"end":844.42,"text":"拿我們的通用資料保護規則"},{"start":844.42,"end":846.42,"text":"我們的政府竟然拿這個規則說"},{"start":846.42,"end":848.42,"text":"不可以調閱我們的監視器畫面"},{"start":848.42,"end":851.42,"text":"還有請家長自己去提民刑法"},{"start":851.42,"end":853.42,"text":"因為教育局不能處理"},{"start":853.42,"end":855.42,"text":"所以想問署長"},{"start":855.42,"end":858.42,"text":"請明確告訴我們外僑學校在台灣辦學"},{"start":858.42,"end":860.42,"text":"收的是我們台灣的孩子"},{"start":860.42,"end":862.42,"text":"到底要不要一樣遵守"},{"start":862.42,"end":864.42,"text":"兒少權法跟幼照法的相關規定"},{"start":864.42,"end":866.42,"text":"還有些是一定要遵守"},{"start":866.42,"end":868.42,"text":"那有一些特殊的情形"},{"start":868.42,"end":869.42,"text":"他們調查的適用"},{"start":869.42,"end":871.42,"text":"這個我們會做一個完整的"},{"start":871.42,"end":874.42,"text":"以及台北市政府如何回應委員的"},{"start":874.42,"end":876.42,"text":"那個整個訊息"},{"start":876.42,"end":878.42,"text":"我們完整的併入調查內"},{"start":878.42,"end":880.42,"text":"剛剛所提的包含台北市"},{"start":880.42,"end":882.42,"text":"我們7月16號給他要求了之後"},{"start":882.42,"end":885.42,"text":"相關的調查7月28號已經廢止"},{"start":885.42,"end":888.42,"text":"另外我們請他在8月10號前"},{"start":888.42,"end":890.42,"text":"要把所有這整個處置的過程"},{"start":890.42,"end":891.42,"text":"給我們說明"},{"start":891.42,"end":894.42,"text":"會併入委員剛才提醒的幾件事情的調查"},{"start":894.42,"end":895.42,"text":"以上補充"},{"start":895.42,"end":896.42,"text":"我還是要講"},{"start":896.42,"end":898.42,"text":"外僑學校在台灣辦學"},{"start":898.42,"end":899.42,"text":"收的是我們台灣的孩子"},{"start":899.42,"end":901.42,"text":"為什麼跟其他台灣"},{"start":901.42,"end":905.42,"text":"本來就是我們本地的辦學的那個制度不太一樣"},{"start":905.42,"end":907.42,"text":"再來就是"},{"start":907.42,"end":910.42,"text":"夏立思今年不是第一期"},{"start":910.42,"end":915.42,"text":"那在2024年受害13個孩子"},{"start":915.42,"end":918.42,"text":"教孩子學狗爬20分鐘"},{"start":918.42,"end":920.42,"text":"然後吃嘔吐物"},{"start":920.42,"end":923.42,"text":"那是76期的不當對待"},{"start":923.42,"end":924.42,"text":"結果呢"},{"start":924.42,"end":925.42,"text":"有怎麼樣"},{"start":925.42,"end":926.42,"text":"因為非常輕"},{"start":926.42,"end":929.42,"text":"到2026年現在7月"},{"start":929.42,"end":931.42,"text":"然後家長面對這個問題"},{"start":931.42,"end":932.42,"text":"又來找我們說"},{"start":932.42,"end":933.42,"text":"奇怪了"},{"start":933.42,"end":935.42,"text":"你大安分園如果有發生這樣的事情"},{"start":935.42,"end":939.42,"text":"為什麼集團式的不會有等同去考量"},{"start":939.42,"end":941.42,"text":"就像我們去年辦"},{"start":941.42,"end":943.42,"text":"去年開的記者會"},{"start":943.42,"end":945.42,"text":"新北市某一個幼兒園連鎖的"},{"start":945.42,"end":947.42,"text":"他桃園也有新北也有台北也有"},{"start":947.42,"end":948.42,"text":"一家嗎"},{"start":948.42,"end":950.42,"text":"結果好幾家都這樣"},{"start":950.42,"end":953.42,"text":"那集團式的有沒有有一些要求在"},{"start":953.42,"end":956.42,"text":"還是讓他們甚至沒有關係"},{"start":956.42,"end":958.42,"text":"只有一家你就裁處一家裁不很輕"},{"start":958.42,"end":961.42,"text":"就接下來又下一家又發生這樣的事情"},{"start":961.42,"end":963.42,"text":"甚至我剛才也提過"},{"start":963.42,"end":965.42,"text":"又家又幼兒園"},{"start":965.42,"end":968.42,"text":"怎麼念頭的老師還可以到他連鎖的補習班"},{"start":968.42,"end":969.42,"text":"繼續上班"},{"start":969.42,"end":972.42,"text":"然後每天孩子還要看到這些人"},{"start":972.42,"end":974.42,"text":"這樣子合情合理嗎"},{"start":974.42,"end":978.42,"text":"孩子每天還是在恐懼當中生活"},{"start":978.42,"end":979.42,"text":"所以請問署長"},{"start":979.42,"end":981.42,"text":"一個幼兒園集團下已經分園"},{"start":981.42,"end":982.42,"text":"已經發生耳虐事件"},{"start":982.42,"end":984.42,"text":"地方政府是不是應該提高"},{"start":984.42,"end":987.42,"text":"對同一個集團其他分園的監管"},{"start":987.42,"end":991.42,"text":"2024年大安分園出事"},{"start":991.42,"end":994.42,"text":"那2024到臺北市政府2025 24"},{"start":994.42,"end":997.42,"text":"有沒有去加強查緝其他的"},{"start":997.42,"end":1000.42,"text":"那有沒有針對我們的下立師其他分園"},{"start":1000.42,"end":1003.42,"text":"甚至有沒有把這個集團列為高風險的對象"},{"start":1003.42,"end":1007.42,"text":"否則他的大安跟我們現在萬華一樣的樣態"},{"start":1007.42,"end":1010.42,"text":"對孩子這麼殘忍呼巴掌踹踢"},{"start":1010.42,"end":1013.42,"text":"然後甚至強迫灌食叫孩子學狗爬"},{"start":1013.42,"end":1016.42,"text":"剛委員提到今年的這一期"},{"start":1016.42,"end":1019.42,"text":"那麼他同時有去就另外一個幼兒園"},{"start":1019.42,"end":1021.42,"text":"以及他的補習班還有托嬰中心"},{"start":1021.42,"end":1024.42,"text":"總共發生事情的這個幼兒園兩員"},{"start":1024.42,"end":1027.42,"text":"補習班跟托嬰中心都有一些查查"},{"start":1027.42,"end":1028.42,"text":"那麼查查之後"},{"start":1028.42,"end":1031.42,"text":"那麼還是集中在目前發生這個事情的這個幼兒園"},{"start":1031.42,"end":1035.42,"text":"大概14天內監視器發現有58起"},{"start":1035.42,"end":1038.42,"text":"大概這樣所以整體是有一起做集團式的整個整理"},{"start":1038.42,"end":1041.42,"text":"至於2024年那一次的我們也去查一下"},{"start":1041.42,"end":1045.42,"text":"回溯看看他當時發生的那個大安的事情"},{"start":1045.42,"end":1046.42,"text":"署長是問你"},{"start":1046.42,"end":1050.42,"text":"是如果已經是連鎖性的發生一起"},{"start":1050.42,"end":1052.42,"text":"那其他的到底要不要加強"},{"start":1052.42,"end":1055.42,"text":"因為管理者都是同樣一批人"},{"start":1055.42,"end":1057.42,"text":"這很危險也風險高"},{"start":1057.42,"end":1059.42,"text":"而且我說去年我們開某一家"},{"start":1059.42,"end":1060.42,"text":"他也是連鎖性的"},{"start":1060.42,"end":1062.42,"text":"果然他好幾家都發生這樣的事情"},{"start":1062.42,"end":1065.42,"text":"然後有的地方政府採取的非常輕"},{"start":1065.42,"end":1070.42,"text":"那後來就會使得他這樣管理造成其他的無所謂"},{"start":1070.42,"end":1072.42,"text":"所以其他縣市陸續爆發"},{"start":1072.42,"end":1075.42,"text":"最後問你都有這一本"},{"start":1075.42,"end":1077.42,"text":"是台北市不理你嗎"},{"start":1077.42,"end":1080.42,"text":"你本來就有違法事件的參考的守則"},{"start":1080.42,"end":1082.42,"text":"應該要給心理諮商"},{"start":1082.42,"end":1084.42,"text":"甚至目睹兒童都要給"},{"start":1084.42,"end":1086.42,"text":"那受害的孩子都沒給"},{"start":1086.42,"end":1088.42,"text":"我也很懷疑目睹的兒童有沒有給"},{"start":1088.42,"end":1090.42,"text":"然後應該給調查報告"},{"start":1090.42,"end":1091.42,"text":"應該給監視器"},{"start":1091.42,"end":1093.42,"text":"甚至要停職都不做"},{"start":1093.42,"end":1096.42,"text":"那署長這到底是在保護我們的孩子"},{"start":1096.42,"end":1098.42,"text":"還是真正在保護地方政府"},{"start":1098.42,"end":1100.42,"text":"還在保護我們的加害人"},{"start":1100.42,"end":1103.42,"text":"還是這麼小一定要政府全力來保護"},{"start":1103.42,"end":1105.42,"text":"所以剛剛委員所提到的那一本"},{"start":1105.42,"end":1107.42,"text":"我們會用那一本的包含流程"},{"start":1107.42,"end":1109.42,"text":"或相關因處理的事項來進行檢視"},{"start":1109.42,"end":1111.42,"text":"那麼他完整的報完調查報告之後"},{"start":1111.42,"end":1113.42,"text":"我們會做一一的檢視"},{"start":1113.42,"end":1114.42,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":1114.42,"end":1115.42,"text":"我也希望這幾起的"},{"start":1115.42,"end":1117.42,"text":"甚至我剛剛提到到現在"},{"start":1117.42,"end":1120.42,"text":"至今這些狀況是不是可以給我一個檢討報告"},{"start":1120.42,"end":1121.42,"text":"讓我知道"},{"start":1121.42,"end":1124.42,"text":"否則的話我覺得一直這幾年來"},{"start":1124.42,"end":1127.42,"text":"每次受到家長這些陳情信的時候"},{"start":1127.42,"end":1129.42,"text":"我們真的非常心痛"},{"start":1129.42,"end":1131.42,"text":"我們一直在催生"},{"start":1131.42,"end":1134.42,"text":"可是又沒有辦法去處理"},{"start":1134.42,"end":1136.42,"text":"讓地方政府真的好好保護我們的孩子"},{"start":1136.42,"end":1139.42,"text":"這不會是我們台灣的福氣"},{"start":1139.42,"end":1140.42,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":1140.42,"end":1141.42,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1141.42,"end":1144.42,"text":"好謝謝林瑋瓊、張二維的"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:28:58.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:29:01.851667+08:00","text":"主席，麻煩我們的法務部參事。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:29:02.542857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:29:04.357143+08:00","text":"請法務部汪參事。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"汪參事南均","start":"2026-07-30T09:29:11.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:29:11.740000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:29:12.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:29:13.090000+08:00","text":"參事早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:29:13.555455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:29:21.968571+08:00","text":"最近我覺得善終議題受到社會很高度的關注，不少民眾大家都希望能夠尊嚴走完人生的最後一里路。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:29:22.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:29:35.497143+08:00","text":"可是也因為現行病人自主權利法跟安寧緩和醫療條例並未明文規定斷食善終，導致社會各界對於法律的界限產生不少疑慮。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:29:36.447692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:30:03.861739+08:00","text":"衛福部跟安寧醫學會都曾表示，斷食善終並不等於安寧療護，事實上也可能有法律風險，所以要問法務部，如果病人表明要透過不吃不喝結束生命，而家屬或醫護人員選擇配合、不勸阻，甚至停止提供食物或者水分，是否涉及刑法第二百七十五條還有遺棄致死罪、過失致死罪或其他的刑事責任？","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:30:04.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:30:10.034286+08:00","text":"如果有爭議的話，那法務部是否會跟衛福部一起去研擬訂定指引？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:30:11.028235+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:30:19.593684+08:00","text":"以明確劃分哪些是屬於尊重病人自主，哪些已經逾越法律界線，避免家屬跟醫護人員因法律不明而承擔風險。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"汪參事南均","start":"2026-07-30T09:30:22.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:30:40.822857+08:00","text":"跟召委報告，因為這個議題牽涉的爭議範圍真的是很廣、很大也很深，因為這個涉及到生命法益、憲政價值還有醫療倫理。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"汪參事南均","start":"2026-07-30T09:30:41.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:30:46.026667+08:00","text":"所以在這個部分，目前我們知道有病人自主權利法……是。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"汪參事南均","start":"2026-07-30T09:30:46.716364+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:30:53.890000+08:00","text":"這是屬於比較消極的，然後是醫護人員來配合。","quality":1},{"speaker":"汪參事南均","start":"2026-07-30T09:30:54.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:31:07.064348+08:00","text":"但是如果是安樂死或者是尊嚴善終的話，那可能是比較積極的，就是主動的安樂死或者是醫助死亡這樣的情況。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"汪參事南均","start":"2026-07-30T09:31:07.593333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:31:27.739167+08:00","text":"就本部的立場，刑法是我們主管的法規，原則上當然是禁止故意剝奪他人的生命，所以像以安樂死來說的話，如果沒有法律明文規定，那依法就是會涉及刑法殺人罪或者是加工自殺罪的規定。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"汪參事南均","start":"2026-07-30T09:31:28.158182+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:31:42.275714+08:00","text":"當然，如果立法政策決定例外容許規定情形的安樂死，那我們一定要在構成要件、程序、監督機制跟免責範圍這些面向，都要做一個刑法的特別規定……是。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:31:42.950909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:31:49.190000+08:00","text":"我剛才也問法務部，未來是不是可以跟衛福部一起共同討論研擬一些指引出來，這可以做到嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"汪參事南均","start":"2026-07-30T09:31:49.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:32:01.550400+08:00","text":"如果立法政策還有社會共識是要走這個方向的話，那本部一定會盡力的協助衛福部來訂定相關的規範。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:32:01.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:32:03.768333+08:00","text":"好，謝謝參事，參事請回。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:32:04.148333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:32:06.231667+08:00","text":"接下來要請衛福部的部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:32:06.231667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:32:07.231667+08:00","text":"請部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:32:06.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:32:28.472308+08:00","text":"部長，現行病人自主權利法規定，病人必須符合五種法定情形，包括末期病人、不可逆轉昏迷、永久植物人或是極重度失智以及主管機關公告的其他情形，才能依照預立醫療決定停止維持生命治療，可是這些條件到底是誰說了算？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:32:28.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:32:31.969565+08:00","text":"是主治醫師一個人決定還是要其他專科醫師一起確認？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:32:32.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:32:36.965455+08:00","text":"如果醫療團隊意見不同的話，到底最後是由誰拍板決定？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-30T09:32:37.536667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:32:56.420000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，當然在現行的病主法裡面，因為我們也在進行修法，在現行的病主法裡面，第一個階段是要有兩位具相關專科資格的醫師去做診斷，看他有沒有符合這些條件，這是第一步。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-30T09:32:56.867059+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:33:11.234286+08:00","text":"第二步，他要再照會安寧的團隊，而且這個照會至少要有2次的照會去確認，然後就啟動後續的預立醫療決定的執行，程序上是要這樣。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:33:12.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:33:16.555000+08:00","text":"什麼時候才可以開始執行預立醫療決定？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:33:17.282500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:33:20.288750+08:00","text":"是只要曾經符合條件就可以執行？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:33:20.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:33:26.050000+08:00","text":"還是每一次都必須重新確認病人現在是否符合資格？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:33:26.558889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:33:30.381111+08:00","text":"有沒有一套全國一致的判斷標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:33:30.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:33:33.565000+08:00","text":"以避免不同醫院有不同做法而影響病人的權益。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-07-30T09:33:34.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:34:22.153333+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，預立醫療決定是隨時都可以進行，只要經過預立醫療照護諮商（ACP）的過程就可以去簽署，只是要啟動的時候，就像委員提到的，因為這個病人的病況是會變化的，所以等於是每一次要啟動，按照現在的做法是，每一次要啟動當然都要經過剛剛的程序，即兩位相關專科醫師判斷有沒有符合這些條件，因為我們現在的條件，前面四款是比較明確，第五款就是由我們來公布，大概都是屬於一些罕見疾病，所以執行上我們都有相關的訓練課程跟一些指引，讓大家知道怎麼執行。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:34:22.991429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:34:26.197778+08:00","text":"部長請回，接下來請國教署署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:34:27.848571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:34:29.991429+08:00","text":"請國教署署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:34:33.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:35:05.975556+08:00","text":"署長，一直以來我就非常關心，而且過去在民間也在處理所謂的不當對待，事實上，臺北市4年就有8起重大兒虐案件，有超過100位以上，大概有115位孩子受到很大的傷害，而且這8起案件有高達618次不當管教，甚至最讓人家覺得心痛的是，性侵跟性猥褻已經超過半數，有66件。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:35:06.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:35:21.197778+08:00","text":"在這樣的比例底下，當然我們的蔣市長就講得很好聽，尤其在培諾米達案件之後，他有出來道歉說自己是臺北市的大家長，有責任保護孩子，會檢討改進，讓法令與政策更完備，避免類似的事情發生。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:35:21.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:35:44.170000+08:00","text":"講完之後，3年又發生7起重大兒虐案件，造成這麼多孩子的傷害，所以就想來問署長幾個問題，目前來我們辦公室跟我們討論的案子裡面，我們想問幾個問題，關於心理諮商，依法規到底是可做還是不可做？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:35:44.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:01.197778+08:00","text":"像培諾米達案，3月12號我們開完記者會，他就可以申請心理諮商，可是之前他是完全不能申請心理諮商，為什麼在2024年3月12號我剛開完記者會，他就可以申請心理諮商？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:01.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:02.920000+08:00","text":"可是在之前他們是求助無門。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:03.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:20.197778+08:00","text":"問題來了，如果2024年他可以申請心理諮商，為什麼2025年幼佳幼兒園又找上我們，說他沒有提供心理諮商的費用，同（2025）年8月，為什麼一個勁寶兒公館幼兒園又可以申請心理諮商？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:20.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:30.253333+08:00","text":"我們是法治社會，今天一個公部門在執行的時候，一下可以心理諮商，一下不行，法定不是說他們可以提供心理諮商、他們可以受到這樣的服務嗎？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:30.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:37.753333+08:00","text":"結果12月也一樣，歐洲學校的幼兒園又是不能申請心理諮商，為什麼？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:38.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:40.170000+08:00","text":"有這麼多套標準嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:40.705714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:42.277143+08:00","text":"心理諮商的依據標準是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:42.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:46.220000+08:00","text":"總不能每次我幫案家開完記者會，他就可以拿到心理諮商。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:46.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:36:47.920000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:36:48.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:12.420000+08:00","text":"基本上是可以的，而且我們還有補助，在114學年，就是目前這個學年、快要結束的這個學年，我們補助了2,600萬，包括臺北市等等22縣市，有這種補助就表示這是有需要的，而且也有來協助，至於特殊個案，剛剛委員已經講了5個個案，有些有、有些沒有，這個我們馬上在一天之內了解，再跟您回報。好。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:13.035385+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:18.238182+08:00","text":"更讓我覺得難以接受的是，為什麼監視器我不能看？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:18.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:28.020000+08:00","text":"培諾米達也是因為監視器不能看，結果調查報告在2022年的時候不成立，所以2023年有多少小孩受害？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:28.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:35.112308+08:00","text":"你不處理的時候，隔年有39個孩子受害，都是性侵、性猥褻，所以到底監視器可不可以調閱？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:35.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:41.134286+08:00","text":"結果幼佳又可以，然後勁寶兒又可以，到了歐洲學校為什麼又不可以？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:41.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:43.197778+08:00","text":"這個標準到底是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:43.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:48.320000+08:00","text":"甚至我也想問調查報告的部分，培諾米達家長問說：調查結果是什麼？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:48.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:53.253333+08:00","text":"結果市府回答說：你去看新聞、新聞稿、看聲明稿。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:53.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:37:56.277143+08:00","text":"為什麼一個調查報告我不能知道結果？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:37:56.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:38:09.170000+08:00","text":"然後必須看聲明稿、看政府的新聞稿，才知道調查結果中，我的孩子在被你們討論的時候，確定他到底有沒有受到傷害。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:38:09.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:38:13.147273+08:00","text":"怎麼會是去看新聞稿而不是給我一個正式的通知？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:38:13.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:38:18.266154+08:00","text":"而且更特別的是，要看調查報告時卻看到什麼東西？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:38:18.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:38:29.220000+08:00","text":"看到一大堆被遮蔽，要嘛就是黑的，要嘛就是說從證人陳述的這些東西都不能看，我只能看到底下的一行字，這一行字到底我要看到的是什麼？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:38:29.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:38:38.170000+08:00","text":"整個包括我們、孩子的陳述、對方的陳述，為什麼行為人可以看到完整的，反而受害人不能看到？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:38:38.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:38:46.205714+08:00","text":"這也是這三年來我們辦公室一直在爭取的，可是至今都還是有這樣的問題，調查報告到底有什麼不可以看到？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:38:46.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:39:02.277143+08:00","text":"像筆錄在記錄的時候，我們在警方做筆錄的時候都可以看，為什麼像這樣子的一個調查報告，要嘛就遮蔽到整個黑的、要嘛就是貼上一個東西，說因為從證人陳述、可特定的人……為保障關係人的權益，都不可以提供。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:39:02.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:39:06.220000+08:00","text":"看到這一坨黑的東西，到底是看到什麼東西？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:39:06.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:39:13.120000+08:00","text":"甚至一頁當中我只看到兩行字，其他的我都看不到，我也不知道調查報告為什麼會是這樣的狀況。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:39:13.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:39:38.277143+08:00","text":"剛才委員有提到兩點，一個是監視器、一個是報告；剛才委員也舉了至少兩個案例來做對照，在114年7月份的全國教育局處長會議之後，我們有承諾在監視器這部分的調閱，應該要有一個合理、適當的配合調查的做法，所以在當年的10月29號就訂出來，委員也知道，我們再送給委員，委員也有很多指導。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:39:38.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:39:43.253333+08:00","text":"至於報告的部分，大概都有一些相關相應的、類似的注意事項跟做法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:39:43.601818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:40:00.266154+08:00","text":"剛剛委員講的兩個個案，有一些不特定的情況下做的作為，好像讓委員覺得有點質疑，我們也一樣，會後我們馬上蒐集這兩個個案做個對比，在什麼樣的情況下，他會做那種判斷，有沒有依照規定，以及它的時限上，是不是在當時提出注意事項之後或之前？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:40:00.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:40:15.277143+08:00","text":"再來，剛剛委員有提到在調閱報告的時候，讓委員看到感覺不知道這個案情在說什麼，有很多遮蔽，這些遮蔽如果是符合相關的法規，那我們也要看它的適當性，這些我們都會進行比較具體的檢視。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:40:15.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:40:18.253333+08:00","text":"不能遮到一個字都看不到，整片是黑的，印給我們做什麼呢？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:40:18.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:40:19.277143+08:00","text":"印給家長做什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:40:19.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:40:26.170000+08:00","text":"甚至我更關心的是停職，本來就希望把加害人跟孩子隔開，但停職了嗎？","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:40:26.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:40:36.170000+08:00","text":"看這4個案子就知道，根本都沒在停職，像幼佳幼兒園還到他們二樓的補習班繼續工作，孩子都還是會看到這個老師，害不害怕？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:40:36.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:40:37.170000+08:00","text":"當然害怕。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:40:38.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:40:52.253333+08:00","text":"勁寶兒公館幼兒園也一樣，他仍然在現場，更不用講歐洲學校幼兒園，他還是一樣在學校裡面，如果你的法規有規定停職，為什麼地方政府可以這樣做？","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:40:52.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:02.253333+08:00","text":"所以家長就來問我們說，當地方政府如此荒腔走板的時候，他們要怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:02.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:03.253333+08:00","text":"只能走司法途徑嗎？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:03.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:06.220000+08:00","text":"或者找我們這些民代來開記者會嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:08.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:11.205714+08:00","text":"孩子要繼續跟施暴老師在現場嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:11.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:12.170000+08:00","text":"這合理嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:12.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:19.134286+08:00","text":"本來就是希望孩子還是能夠繼續去上學，而不是孩子要被隔開，老師繼續去上班。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:19.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:29.170000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員所提到的三大題以及最後一題，這些我們都會具體的了解，包含最後所提到的停職的認定跟它的執行，以上補充，謝謝。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:29.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:40.189231+08:00","text":"甚至現在更荒謬的是，蔣萬安在培諾米達案件有出來道歉，說自己是臺北市大家長，有責任保護小孩，為什麼至今都不處理國賠？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:40.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:41:44.170000+08:00","text":"完全不處理國賠，不是承認自己的疏失嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:41:45.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:03.170000+08:00","text":"所以我很贊成家長講的話，今天他們受害了，結果繳的罰款是給政府，心理諮商他們要自己出，司法訴訟要他們自己出，政府賺得盆滿缽滿之後，所有的代價是家長要負擔，這合理嗎？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:03.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:09.232500+08:00","text":"怎麼會是國賠不去處理，然後家長要去走到司法訴訟？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:09.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:21.134286+08:00","text":"最後變成所有的不管是律師費，甚至心理諮商費都要他們承擔，所以法律到底是在保護加害人還是保護受害人？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:21.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:24.232500+08:00","text":"地方政府怎麼樣保護我們孩子？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:24.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:29.045000+08:00","text":"當他們沒有作為的時候，到底家長要怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:31.874545+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:37.220000+08:00","text":"接下來也要來問，外僑學校到底是不是兒安的死角？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:37.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:39.086667+08:00","text":"為什麼這樣提？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:39.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:42:51.045000+08:00","text":"當臺北歐洲學校的家長來跟我們求助的時候有提到，他要調監視器，結果拿出什麼？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:42:51.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:03.197778+08:00","text":"拿出通用資料保護規則，我們的政府竟然拿這個規則說不可以調閱監視器畫面，還有請家長自己去提民、刑事訴訟，因為教育局不能處理。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:04.086667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:14.266154+08:00","text":"我想問署長，請明確告訴我們，外僑學校在臺灣辦學，收的是我們臺灣的孩子，到底要不要一樣遵守兒少權法跟幼教法的相關規定？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:14.642222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:28.220000+08:00","text":"有些是一定要遵守，有些特殊情形，包括他們調查的適用，這個我們會做一個完整的說明，以及臺北市政府如何回應委員的那整個訊息，我們會完整併入調查內。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:28.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:35.147273+08:00","text":"剛剛所提的，包含臺北市我們7月16號給他們的要求，相關的調查7月28號已經廢止。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:35.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:45.170000+08:00","text":"另外，我們請他在8月10號前要把所有整個事件的處置過程向我們說明，這也會併入委員剛才提醒的幾件事情的調查，以上補充。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:45.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:43:55.220000+08:00","text":"我還是要講，外僑學校在臺灣辦學，收的是我們臺灣的孩子，為什麼跟其他本地辦學的制度不太一樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:43:55.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:15.170000+08:00","text":"再來是夏莉絲，今年已經不是第一起，2024年受害13個孩子，叫孩子學狗爬20分鐘、吃嘔吐物，76起的不當對待，結果有怎麼樣嗎？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:15.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:16.220000+08:00","text":"裁罰非常輕啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:16.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:29.153333+08:00","text":"到現在2026年7月，家長面對這個問題又來找我們陳情，奇怪了，如果大安分園發生這樣的事情，為什麼對集團式的不會等同去考量？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:29.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:38.086667+08:00","text":"就像我們去年開的記者會，新北市某一個連鎖幼兒園，桃園有，新北、臺北也都有，是只有一家嗎？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:38.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:42.991429+08:00","text":"好幾家都這樣，對集團式的有沒有一些要求？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:43.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:44:51.232500+08:00","text":"還是讓他們……甚至是沒有關係，只有一家就裁處一家，裁得很輕，接下來下一家又發生這樣的事情。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:44:51.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:04.170000+08:00","text":"甚至就像我剛剛提過的幼佳幼兒園，虐童的老師還可以到連鎖的補習班繼續上班，孩子每天還要看到這些人，這樣合情合理嗎？","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:04.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:17.189231+08:00","text":"孩子每天生活在恐懼中，請問署長，一個集團幼兒園的分園已經發生兒虐事件，地方政府是不是應該提高對同一個集團其他分園的監管？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:17.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:30.232500+08:00","text":"2024年大安分園出事，臺北市政府在2024年、2025年有沒有加強查察其他夏莉絲分園？","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:30.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:33.253333+08:00","text":"甚至有沒有把這個集團列為高風險對象？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:33.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:45:43.205714+08:00","text":"否則他的大安分園就跟現在的萬華分園一樣的樣態，對孩子這麼殘忍，呼巴掌、踹、踢，甚至強迫灌食，叫孩子學狗爬，這樣對嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:45:43.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:08.277143+08:00","text":"剛剛委員提到今年的這一起，他同時有去另外的幼兒園、補習班及托嬰中心，也就是發生事情的幼兒園總共兩園，以及補習班跟托嬰中心，都有去做一些查察，查察之後，發現還是集中在目前發生事情的這個幼兒園，大概14天內監視器發現有58起，大概是這樣，所以整體是有一起做集團式的整個整理。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:08.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:15.184706+08:00","text":"至於2024年那一次，我們也有去查，回溯看看當時發生的那個大安的事情……","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:15.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:22.238182+08:00","text":"署長，我是問你，如果連鎖幼兒園已經發生一起，其他的到底要不要加強？","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:22.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:27.170000+08:00","text":"因為管理者都是同樣一批人，這很危險，風險也高。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:28.086667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:42.220000+08:00","text":"去年我們提到某一家，他也是連鎖性的，果然好幾家都發生這樣的事情，地方政府裁處都非常輕，這就會使得他們覺得其他的管理也無所謂，所以其他縣市陸續爆發。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:42.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:47.170000+08:00","text":"最後我要問，你都有這一本，是臺北市不理你嗎？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:47.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:46:58.277143+08:00","text":"你本來就有違法事件的參考手冊，應該要給心理諮商，甚至目睹兒童都要給，結果連受害的孩子都沒給，我很懷疑目睹的兒童有沒有給？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:46:58.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:10.220000+08:00","text":"然後應該要給調查報告，應該要給監視器，甚至要停職，這些都不做，署長，這到底是在保護我們的孩子，還是在保護地方政府、保護加害人？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:47:10.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:24.170000+08:00","text":"孩子這麼小，政府一定要全力來保護，所以剛剛委員所提到的那一本，我們會用那一本，包含流程或相關應注意事項來進行檢視，在完整的調查報告之後，我們也會一一檢視，謝謝委員。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:47:24.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:30.262105+08:00","text":"我也希望這幾起的……甚至我剛剛提到的，到現在、至今的這些狀況，是不是可以給我一個檢討報告……都會。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:47:30.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:49.147273+08:00","text":"讓我知道，否則我覺得這幾年來，每次收到家長的陳情信，我們真的都非常心痛，我們一直在催生，可是又沒有辦法處理，讓地方政府真的好好保護我們的孩子，這不會是我們臺灣的福氣。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"林委員月琴","start":"2026-07-30T09:47:49.147273+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:50.147273+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭署長富源","start":"2026-07-30T09:47:49.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:50.170000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:47:50.670000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:56.098571+08:00","text":"好，謝謝林月琴召委的發言，也謝謝官員的答詢。","quality":0.263},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T09:47:56.398571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T09:47:59.541429+08:00","text":"下一位請陳菁徽委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}