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參事長好 早"},{"start":23.36,"end":27.66,"text":"那最近我覺得三中一題大家受到社會很高度的關注"},{"start":27.86,"end":30.82,"text":"不少民眾大家都希望能夠尊嚴走完"},{"start":30.82,"end":32.16,"text":"人生最後一哩路"},{"start":32.52,"end":35.66,"text":"可是這也是因為現行病人自主權利法"},{"start":35.66,"end":37.9,"text":"跟安寧緩和醫療條例"},{"start":37.9,"end":39.74,"text":"並未明文規定說"},{"start":39.74,"end":44.400000000000006,"text":"我們的斷食三中導致社會各界對法律的界線"},{"start":44.400000000000006,"end":45.68,"text":"產生不少的疑慮"},{"start":46.24,"end":48.94,"text":"那衛福部跟安寧醫學會都表示"},{"start":49.32,"end":52.04,"text":"斷食三中並不等於安寧療護"},{"start":52.04,"end":54.42,"text":"那也可能事實上有法律風險"},{"start":54.42,"end":56.519999999999996,"text":"所以問法務部如果病人表明"},{"start":56.620000000000005,"end":59.42,"text":"要透過不吃不喝結束生命"},{"start":59.42,"end":62.160000000000004,"text":"而家屬或醫護人員選擇配合不勸阻"},{"start":62.160000000000004,"end":65.02000000000001,"text":"甚至停止提供食物獲得水分"},{"start":65.02000000000001,"end":68.62,"text":"那是否涉及到刑法的第275條"},{"start":68.62,"end":74.10000000000001,"text":"那還有遺棄致死罪跟過失致死罪及或其他的刑事責任"},{"start":74.10000000000001,"end":75.44,"text":"如果有爭議的話"},{"start":75.44,"end":80.80000000000001,"text":"那衛福部是否會去跟衛福部一起研擬好訂定之一"},{"start":80.80000000000001,"end":84.68,"text":"來明確化劃分哪些是屬於尊重病人自主"},{"start":84.68,"end":86.24000000000001,"text":"哪些是可以予約法界"},{"start":86.24000000000001,"end":89.78,"text":"避免家屬跟醫護人員因法律不明而承擔風險"},{"start":92.18,"end":94.58000000000001,"text":"跟召委報告"},{"start":94.92,"end":97.86000000000001,"text":"因為這個議題真的是牽涉的"},{"start":100.06,"end":103.02000000000001,"text":"爭議範圍很廣也很大也很深"},{"start":103.02000000000001,"end":106.60000000000001,"text":"因為這個涉及到生命法意"},{"start":106.60000000000001,"end":109.4,"text":"還有憲政的價值"},{"start":109.4,"end":111.06,"text":"還有醫療的倫理"},{"start":111.06,"end":113.44000000000001,"text":"所以在這個部分目前"},{"start":113.46,"end":116.25999999999999,"text":"我們知道有病人自主權利法"},{"start":116.25999999999999,"end":121.28,"text":"那這個是屬於比較消極的"},{"start":121.28,"end":124.17999999999999,"text":"然後是醫護人員來配合"},{"start":124.17999999999999,"end":129.04,"text":"那但是如果是安樂死或者是尊嚴善終的話"},{"start":129.04,"end":132.76,"text":"那這個可能是有比較積極的"},{"start":132.76,"end":137.26,"text":"就是主動的安樂死或者是依住死亡的這樣的一個情況"},{"start":137.26,"end":143.26,"text":"那本部的立場我們刑法是我們的主管法規"},{"start":143.28,"end":146.98,"text":"那原則上當然是禁止故意剝奪他人的生命"},{"start":146.98,"end":150.62,"text":"但所以如果像以安樂死來說的話"},{"start":150.62,"end":152.66,"text":"如果沒有法律明文規定"},{"start":152.66,"end":157.95999999999998,"text":"那依法就是會涉及刑法殺人罪或者是加工自殺罪的規定"},{"start":157.95999999999998,"end":160.14,"text":"那當然如果立法政策決定"},{"start":160.14,"end":163.23999999999998,"text":"例外容許規定情形的安樂死"},{"start":163.23999999999998,"end":165.7,"text":"那我們一定要在構成要件"},{"start":165.7,"end":170.14,"text":"還有程序跟監督機制跟免責範圍這些"},{"start":170.14,"end":172.44,"text":"面向都要做一個刑法的特別規定"},{"start":172.52,"end":174.1,"text":"我想說我剛才有問法務部"},{"start":174.1,"end":176.76,"text":"未來是不是可以跟衛福部一起共同討論"},{"start":176.76,"end":178.44,"text":"要有些指引出來"},{"start":178.44,"end":179.34,"text":"這可以做到嗎"},{"start":179.34,"end":183.64,"text":"如果立法政策還有社會的共識是要走這個方向的話"},{"start":183.64,"end":191.88,"text":"那本部一定是會盡力的協助衛福部來訂定相關的規則規範"},{"start":191.88,"end":193.94,"text":"好謝謝陳司法那陳司法請回"},{"start":193.94,"end":196.44,"text":"那接下來要請衛福部的部長"},{"start":196.44,"end":199.52,"text":"那部長現行必能自主權力法規定"},{"start":199.52,"end":202.56,"text":"病人必須符合五種法定情形"},{"start":202.56,"end":207.02,"text":"包括末期病人不可逆轉昏迷永久植入人"},{"start":207.02,"end":210.62,"text":"或是急重度失智以及主管機關公告的其他情形"},{"start":210.62,"end":216.22,"text":"才能依照那個預立醫療決定停止維持生命治療"},{"start":216.22,"end":218.66000000000003,"text":"可是這些條件到底是誰說了算"},{"start":218.66000000000003,"end":222.12,"text":"是組織醫師一個人決定還是要其他專科醫師一起確認"},{"start":222.12,"end":224.42000000000002,"text":"如果醫療團隊意見不同的話"},{"start":224.42000000000002,"end":227.22,"text":"到底最後是由誰拍板決定"},{"start":227.22,"end":229.12,"text":"好跟委員說明"},{"start":229.12,"end":231.92000000000002,"text":"當然在現行的病主法裡面"},{"start":231.92000000000002,"end":234.22,"text":"因為我們也在進行修法"},{"start":234.22,"end":236.72,"text":"在現行的病主法裡面"},{"start":236.72,"end":243.92000000000002,"text":"是要第一個階段是要有兩位具相關專科資格的醫師去做診斷"},{"start":243.92000000000002,"end":245.62,"text":"看看有沒有符合這些條件"},{"start":245.62,"end":246.62,"text":"這是第一步"},{"start":246.62,"end":250.82,"text":"那第二步呢他要在召會這個安寧的團隊"},{"start":250.82,"end":254.82,"text":"而且這個召會至少要有兩次的召會去確認"},{"start":254.82,"end":259.52,"text":"然後就啟動後續的這個預立醫療決定的這個執行"},{"start":259.52,"end":261.52,"text":"程序上是要這樣"},{"start":261.52,"end":266.82,"text":"好那我覺得什麼時候才可以開始預立醫療決定"},{"start":266.82,"end":270.52,"text":"而且是只要曾經符合條件就可以執行"},{"start":270.52,"end":273.62,"text":"還是每一次都要必須要重新確認病人"},{"start":273.62,"end":276.32,"text":"目前現在是否符合資格"},{"start":276.32,"end":280.62,"text":"還有沒有一套全國一致的那個判斷的標準"},{"start":280.62,"end":283.71999999999997,"text":"還有避免不同醫院有不同做法影響病人的權益"},{"start":284.72,"end":289.22,"text":"跟委員說明就是預立醫療決定就是隨時都可以進行"},{"start":289.22,"end":294.22,"text":"只要經過ACP預立醫療照護諮商的過程就可以去簽署"},{"start":294.22,"end":297.22,"text":"只是要啟動的時候就像委員提到的"},{"start":297.22,"end":301.42,"text":"因為這個病人的病況他是會變化的"},{"start":301.42,"end":304.22,"text":"所以等於是每一次要啟動"},{"start":304.22,"end":306.72,"text":"按照現在的做法是每一次要啟動"},{"start":306.72,"end":308.72,"text":"當然都要經過剛剛的程序"},{"start":308.72,"end":313.42,"text":"兩位相關專科醫師判斷有沒有符合這些條件"},{"start":313.42,"end":315.42,"text":"因為我們現在的條件"},{"start":315.42,"end":318.42,"text":"前面四款是比較明確"},{"start":318.42,"end":321.92,"text":"第五款就是由我們這個來公布"},{"start":321.92,"end":323.92,"text":"大概都是屬於一些罕見疾病"},{"start":323.92,"end":328.42,"text":"所以執行上我們都有相關的這個訓練課程"},{"start":328.42,"end":332.42,"text":"跟一些指引來讓大家知道怎麼執行"},{"start":332.42,"end":334.42,"text":"好 那部長請回號"},{"start":334.42,"end":336.42,"text":"接下來請國教署署長"},{"start":337.42,"end":340.42,"text":"好 請國教署署長"},{"start":343.42,"end":348.42,"text":"署長 一直以來我就非常關心"},{"start":348.42,"end":352.42,"text":"而且過去在民間也在處理所謂的不當對待"},{"start":352.42,"end":356.92,"text":"那台北市事實上四年就扒起重大的惡孽"},{"start":356.92,"end":359.42,"text":"大概超過了100位以上"},{"start":359.42,"end":363.42,"text":"大概115位的孩子受到很大傷害"},{"start":363.42,"end":368.42,"text":"而且這扒起案件高達有618次的不當管教"},{"start":368.42,"end":370.42,"text":"甚至最讓人家覺得心痛的"},{"start":370.42,"end":372.42,"text":"在台北市事實上有性侵跟性毀屑"},{"start":372.42,"end":376.42,"text":"已經超過半數了 有66件"},{"start":376.42,"end":378.42,"text":"在這樣的比例底下"},{"start":378.42,"end":380.42,"text":"當然我們的蔣事長就講得很好聽"},{"start":380.42,"end":382.42,"text":"尤其在培若米札案件之後"},{"start":382.42,"end":385.42,"text":"他有出來道歉說自己是台北市的大家長"},{"start":385.42,"end":387.42,"text":"有責任保護孩子 會檢討改進"},{"start":387.42,"end":391.42,"text":"讓法令與政策更完備 避免類似的事情發生"},{"start":391.42,"end":393.42,"text":"講完之後呢"},{"start":393.42,"end":396.42,"text":"三年又發生了七起的重大惡孽案件"},{"start":396.42,"end":399.42,"text":"造成這麼多孩子的傷害"},{"start":399.42,"end":401.42,"text":"所以就想來問部長幾個"},{"start":401.42,"end":404.42,"text":"目前我們現在 我們的"},{"start":404.42,"end":408.42,"text":"來我們辦公室跟我們討論的案子裡面"},{"start":408.42,"end":410.42,"text":"我們想問幾個"},{"start":410.42,"end":412.42,"text":"就是說到底心理諮商依法規"},{"start":412.42,"end":414.42,"text":"我到底可做不可做"},{"start":414.42,"end":418.42,"text":"培若米札案3月12號我們開完記者會"},{"start":418.42,"end":420.42,"text":"就可以申請心理諮商"},{"start":420.42,"end":423.42,"text":"可是之前他是完全不能申請心理諮商"},{"start":423.42,"end":427.42,"text":"為什麼在2024年3月12號"},{"start":427.42,"end":429.42,"text":"我剛進來開完記者會"},{"start":429.42,"end":431.42,"text":"就可以申請心理諮商"},{"start":431.42,"end":433.42,"text":"可是在之前他們是求助我們"},{"start":433.42,"end":435.42,"text":"那問題來了"},{"start":435.42,"end":437.42,"text":"如果他2024年申請心理諮商可以"},{"start":437.42,"end":439.42,"text":"為什麼2025年又加幼兒園"},{"start":439.42,"end":441.42,"text":"又找上我們"},{"start":441.42,"end":443.42,"text":"說他沒有提供心理諮商的費用"},{"start":443.42,"end":446.42,"text":"同年2025年一樣8月"},{"start":446.42,"end":448.42,"text":"為什麼一個進寶兒公館幼兒園"},{"start":448.42,"end":450.42,"text":"又可以申請心理諮商"},{"start":450.42,"end":454.42,"text":"法治社會今天一個公部門在執行的時候"},{"start":454.42,"end":456.42,"text":"一下可以心理諮商一下不行"},{"start":456.42,"end":458.42,"text":"法定不是說他們可以提供心理諮商嗎"},{"start":458.42,"end":460.42,"text":"他們可以受到這樣的服務嗎"},{"start":460.42,"end":462.42,"text":"結果12月一樣"},{"start":462.42,"end":466.42,"text":"歐洲學校的幼兒園又是不能申請心理諮商"},{"start":466.42,"end":468.42,"text":"為什麼"},{"start":468.42,"end":470.42,"text":"有這麼多套標準嗎"},{"start":470.42,"end":472.42,"text":"那個心理諮商的依據標準是什麼"},{"start":472.42,"end":474.42,"text":"總部的每次我都在幫跟案家開完記者會"},{"start":474.42,"end":476.42,"text":"他就可以拿到心理諮商"},{"start":476.42,"end":478.42,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":478.42,"end":480.42,"text":"基本上是可以的"},{"start":480.42,"end":482.42,"text":"而且可以我們還有補助"},{"start":482.42,"end":484.42,"text":"那在114學年"},{"start":484.42,"end":486.42,"text":"這個學年快要結束這個學年"},{"start":486.42,"end":490.42,"text":"我們補助了2600萬其中台北市等等22縣市"},{"start":490.42,"end":493.42,"text":"那政府補助就表示這個是需要"},{"start":493.42,"end":495.42,"text":"而且也有來協助"},{"start":495.42,"end":497.42,"text":"那至於特殊個案"},{"start":497.42,"end":498.42,"text":"剛剛委員已經講了5個個案"},{"start":498.42,"end":499.42,"text":"有些有有些沒有"},{"start":499.42,"end":501.42,"text":"這個我們馬上在一天內了解"},{"start":501.42,"end":502.42,"text":"跟您回報"},{"start":502.42,"end":506.42,"text":"好那更讓我覺得很難以接受的"},{"start":506.42,"end":508.42,"text":"為什麼是監視器我不能看"},{"start":508.42,"end":511.42,"text":"好培羅米達也是因為監視器不能看"},{"start":511.42,"end":514.4200000000001,"text":"就調查報告在2020年的時候不成立"},{"start":514.4200000000001,"end":518.4200000000001,"text":"所以2023年結果有多少小孩"},{"start":518.4200000000001,"end":520.4200000000001,"text":"一你不處理的時候"},{"start":520.4200000000001,"end":522.4200000000001,"text":"隔年39個孩子受害"},{"start":522.4200000000001,"end":523.4200000000001,"text":"都是性侵性違憲"},{"start":523.4200000000001,"end":525.4200000000001,"text":"所以到底監視器可不可以調查"},{"start":525.4200000000001,"end":527.4200000000001,"text":"結果又加又可以"},{"start":527.4200000000001,"end":528.4200000000001,"text":"然後進保額又可以"},{"start":528.4200000000001,"end":529.4200000000001,"text":"到了歐洲學校"},{"start":529.4200000000001,"end":531.4200000000001,"text":"為什麼又不可以"},{"start":531.4200000000001,"end":533.4200000000001,"text":"這個標準到底是什麼"},{"start":533.4200000000001,"end":535.4200000000001,"text":"甚至我也想問調查報告"},{"start":535.4200000000001,"end":537.4200000000001,"text":"培羅米達家長問說"},{"start":537.4200000000001,"end":538.4200000000001,"text":"那我的調查結果是什麼"},{"start":538.4200000000001,"end":540.4200000000001,"text":"結果市府回答說"},{"start":540.42,"end":542.42,"text":"你去看新聞稿"},{"start":542.42,"end":543.42,"text":"看我的聲明稿"},{"start":543.42,"end":545.42,"text":"為什麼一個調查報告"},{"start":545.42,"end":546.42,"text":"我不能知道結果"},{"start":546.42,"end":548.42,"text":"然後我必須看聲明稿"},{"start":548.42,"end":550.42,"text":"看政府的一個新聞稿"},{"start":550.42,"end":552.42,"text":"我才知道我的調查結果"},{"start":552.42,"end":556.42,"text":"我的孩子有沒有被你們在討論的時候"},{"start":556.42,"end":559.42,"text":"確定他到底有沒有受到傷害"},{"start":559.42,"end":560.42,"text":"怎麼會去看新聞稿"},{"start":560.42,"end":563.42,"text":"不是給我一個正式的通知"},{"start":563.42,"end":564.42,"text":"而且更特別的是"},{"start":564.42,"end":566.42,"text":"如果要看這樣的一個"},{"start":566.42,"end":568.42,"text":"我要看調查報告看到什麼東西"},{"start":568.42,"end":569.42,"text":"看到一大堆遮蔽"},{"start":569.42,"end":570.42,"text":"要嘛就是黑的"},{"start":570.42,"end":571.42,"text":"要嘛就是說"},{"start":571.42,"end":574.42,"text":"從證人陳述的這些東西都不能看"},{"start":574.42,"end":576.42,"text":"我只能看到底下的一行字"},{"start":576.42,"end":577.42,"text":"這一行字"},{"start":577.42,"end":579.42,"text":"到底我要看到的是什麼"},{"start":579.42,"end":580.42,"text":"我孩子的整個"},{"start":580.42,"end":583.42,"text":"我們的陳述對方的陳述"},{"start":583.42,"end":585.42,"text":"為什麼行為人可以看到完整的"},{"start":585.42,"end":587.42,"text":"那反而是傷害人"},{"start":587.42,"end":588.42,"text":"不能看到"},{"start":588.42,"end":590.42,"text":"這也是我這三年來"},{"start":590.42,"end":591.42,"text":"我們辦公室一直在爭取"},{"start":591.42,"end":593.42,"text":"可是至今都還是有這樣子的問題"},{"start":593.42,"end":596.42,"text":"調查報告到底有什麼不可以看到"},{"start":596.42,"end":597.42,"text":"筆錄在記錄的時候"},{"start":597.42,"end":600.42,"text":"我們在警方筆錄的時候都可以看"},{"start":600.42,"end":601.42,"text":"為什麼事實上是"},{"start":601.42,"end":603.42,"text":"這樣子的一個調查報告"},{"start":603.42,"end":604.42,"text":"要嘛就遮蔽到整個黑的"},{"start":604.42,"end":606.42,"text":"要嘛就是貼上一個東西說"},{"start":606.42,"end":610.42,"text":"因為從證人陳述可特定的人"},{"start":610.42,"end":612.42,"text":"未保障關係人權益都不可以提供"},{"start":612.42,"end":614.42,"text":"那我看這一坨黑的東西"},{"start":614.42,"end":616.42,"text":"我到底看到是什麼東西"},{"start":616.42,"end":618.42,"text":"甚至一頁我只看到兩行字"},{"start":618.42,"end":619.42,"text":"其他的我都看不到"},{"start":619.42,"end":620.42,"text":"那我也不知道調查報告"},{"start":620.42,"end":623.42,"text":"為什麼又會是這樣狀況"},{"start":623.42,"end":625.42,"text":"好 剛剛委員有兩點"},{"start":625.42,"end":627.42,"text":"一個是監視器一個是報告"},{"start":627.42,"end":629.42,"text":"那剛才委員也舉了"},{"start":629.42,"end":631.42,"text":"至少兩個案例來做對照"},{"start":631.42,"end":634.42,"text":"那在114年7月份的全國局長會議之後"},{"start":634.42,"end":637.42,"text":"我們有承諾在監視器這一部分的調閱"},{"start":637.42,"end":639.42,"text":"應該要有一個合理"},{"start":639.42,"end":642.42,"text":"跟適當的來配合調查的一個做法"},{"start":642.42,"end":645.42,"text":"所以在當年的10月29號就訂出來"},{"start":645.42,"end":646.42,"text":"那委員也知道"},{"start":646.42,"end":647.42,"text":"我們再送給委員"},{"start":647.42,"end":648.42,"text":"委員也很多指導"},{"start":648.42,"end":649.42,"text":"那至於報告的部分"},{"start":649.42,"end":651.42,"text":"大概都有一些相關相應的"},{"start":651.42,"end":653.42,"text":"類似的這個注意事項跟做法"},{"start":653.42,"end":655.42,"text":"那剛剛委員講的兩個個案"},{"start":655.42,"end":658.42,"text":"有一些不特定的情況下做的作為"},{"start":658.42,"end":660.42,"text":"好像讓委員覺得有點質疑"},{"start":660.42,"end":661.42,"text":"我們也一樣"},{"start":661.42,"end":662.42,"text":"在這個會後我們馬上"},{"start":662.42,"end":663.42,"text":"搜集這兩個個案做個對比"},{"start":663.42,"end":664.42,"text":"在什麼樣的情況下"},{"start":664.42,"end":666.42,"text":"他會做那種判斷"},{"start":666.42,"end":667.42,"text":"有沒有依照規定"},{"start":667.42,"end":668.42,"text":"以及他實現上"},{"start":668.42,"end":670.42,"text":"是否當時注意事項之後或之前"},{"start":670.42,"end":671.42,"text":"再來一個是"},{"start":671.42,"end":672.42,"text":"剛剛委員有提到"},{"start":672.42,"end":675.42,"text":"這整個在調閱報告的時候"},{"start":675.42,"end":677.42,"text":"讓委員看到有一些感覺"},{"start":677.42,"end":678.42,"text":"不知道這個案情在說什麼"},{"start":678.42,"end":679.42,"text":"很多遮蔽"},{"start":679.42,"end":681.42,"text":"這些遮蔽如果他是符合相關的法規"},{"start":681.42,"end":683.42,"text":"那我們也要看他的適當性"},{"start":683.42,"end":685.42,"text":"這些我們都進行比較具體的監視"},{"start":685.42,"end":686.42,"text":"不能遮到一個字都看不到"},{"start":686.42,"end":688.42,"text":"整片是黑的印給我們做什麼"},{"start":688.42,"end":689.42,"text":"印給家長做什麼"},{"start":689.42,"end":691.42,"text":"甚至有更關心的叫停止"},{"start":691.42,"end":695.42,"text":"本來就希望把家害人跟孩子隔開"},{"start":695.42,"end":696.42,"text":"停止了嗎"},{"start":696.42,"end":699.42,"text":"看這四個就知道根本都沒在停止"},{"start":699.42,"end":700.42,"text":"像幼家幼兒園"},{"start":700.42,"end":702.42,"text":"還到他們照樣他們"},{"start":702.42,"end":704.42,"text":"二樓的補習班繼續工作"},{"start":704.42,"end":705.42,"text":"孩子都還是會看到這個老師"},{"start":705.42,"end":707.42,"text":"害不害怕當然害怕"},{"start":707.42,"end":708.42,"text":"那一樣啊"},{"start":708.42,"end":710.42,"text":"進寶公館的這個幼兒園"},{"start":710.42,"end":711.42,"text":"一樣啊"},{"start":711.42,"end":713.42,"text":"無論在現場"},{"start":713.42,"end":716.42,"text":"那當然更不用講那個歐洲學校幼兒園"},{"start":716.42,"end":718.42,"text":"還是一樣在學校裡面"},{"start":718.42,"end":720.42,"text":"如果你的法規有停止"},{"start":720.42,"end":722.42,"text":"為什麼地方政府可以這樣做"},{"start":722.42,"end":724.42,"text":"所以家長就來問我們說"},{"start":724.42,"end":729.42,"text":"當地方政府如此的荒腔走板的時候"},{"start":729.42,"end":731.42,"text":"家長問要怎麼辦"},{"start":731.42,"end":732.42,"text":"他們要怎麼辦"},{"start":732.42,"end":733.42,"text":"只能走刑法嗎"},{"start":733.42,"end":736.42,"text":"或者找我們這些民代來開記者會嗎"},{"start":736.42,"end":738.42,"text":"還是繼續跟施暴者"},{"start":738.42,"end":741.42,"text":"孩子要繼續跟施暴老師在現場嗎"},{"start":741.42,"end":742.42,"text":"這合理嗎"},{"start":742.42,"end":746.42,"text":"本來就是希望孩子能夠還是繼續去上學"},{"start":746.42,"end":747.42,"text":"而不是孩子要被隔開"},{"start":747.42,"end":749.42,"text":"老師繼續去上班"},{"start":749.42,"end":752.42,"text":"剛剛委員所提到的三大題"},{"start":752.42,"end":753.42,"text":"三大題以及最後一題"},{"start":753.42,"end":755.42,"text":"這些我們都會具體的了解"},{"start":755.42,"end":758.42,"text":"包含最後所提到的停止的認定跟他的執行"},{"start":758.42,"end":759.42,"text":"以上補充"},{"start":759.42,"end":761.42,"text":"甚至現在更荒謬的是"},{"start":761.42,"end":765.42,"text":"講完在培若米的案件有出來道歉"},{"start":765.42,"end":766.42,"text":"說自己是台北市家長"},{"start":766.42,"end":767.42,"text":"有責任保護小孩"},{"start":767.42,"end":770.42,"text":"為什麼現在至今都不處理國賠"},{"start":770.42,"end":771.42,"text":"完全不處理國賠"},{"start":771.42,"end":774.42,"text":"然後不是承認自己的疏失嗎"},{"start":774.42,"end":775.42,"text":"為什麼不處理"},{"start":775.42,"end":777.42,"text":"所以我很贊成家長講的話就是說"},{"start":777.42,"end":780.42,"text":"今天他們受害了"},{"start":780.42,"end":782.42,"text":"結果繳的罰款是給政府"},{"start":782.42,"end":784.42,"text":"心理諮商他們要自己出"},{"start":784.42,"end":786.42,"text":"司法訴訟要他們自己出"},{"start":786.42,"end":790.42,"text":"那到底事實上是政府賺了滿盆滿缽之後"},{"start":790.42,"end":792.42,"text":"所有的代價事實上是家長要負擔"},{"start":792.42,"end":793.42,"text":"這合理嗎"},{"start":793.42,"end":796.42,"text":"怎麼會是國賠不去處理"},{"start":796.42,"end":799.42,"text":"然後家長要去走到刑事法的一個訴訟"},{"start":799.42,"end":802.42,"text":"最後變成事實上所有的"},{"start":802.42,"end":803.42,"text":"不管是律師費"},{"start":803.42,"end":806.42,"text":"所有甚至心理諮商都要他們承擔"},{"start":806.42,"end":809.42,"text":"所以法律到底是在保護加害人"},{"start":809.42,"end":811.42,"text":"還是保護受害人"},{"start":811.42,"end":814.42,"text":"還有地方政府怎麼樣保護我們的孩子"},{"start":814.42,"end":816.42,"text":"當他們沒有作為的時候"},{"start":816.42,"end":819.42,"text":"到底家長要怎麼辦"},{"start":819.42,"end":822.42,"text":"更何況我覺得像也要來問"},{"start":822.42,"end":826.42,"text":"也要來問外僑學校到底是不是"},{"start":826.42,"end":827.42,"text":"額安的死角"},{"start":827.42,"end":829.42,"text":"為什麼這樣提"},{"start":829.42,"end":833.42,"text":"當這個台北歐洲學校"},{"start":833.42,"end":835.42,"text":"家長來跟我們求助的時候"},{"start":835.42,"end":838.42,"text":"他提到他要調監視器"},{"start":838.42,"end":841.42,"text":"結果出事了拿什麼"},{"start":841.42,"end":844.42,"text":"拿我們的通用資料保護規則"},{"start":844.42,"end":846.42,"text":"我們的政府竟然拿這個規則說"},{"start":846.42,"end":848.42,"text":"不可以調閱我們的監視器畫面"},{"start":848.42,"end":851.42,"text":"還有請家長自己去提民刑法"},{"start":851.42,"end":853.42,"text":"因為教育局不能處理"},{"start":853.42,"end":855.42,"text":"所以想問署長"},{"start":855.42,"end":858.42,"text":"請明確告訴我們外僑學校在台灣辦學"},{"start":858.42,"end":860.42,"text":"收的是我們台灣的孩子"},{"start":860.42,"end":862.42,"text":"到底要不要一樣遵守"},{"start":862.42,"end":864.42,"text":"兒少權法跟幼照法的相關規定"},{"start":864.42,"end":866.42,"text":"還有些是一定要遵守"},{"start":866.42,"end":868.42,"text":"那有一些特殊的情形"},{"start":868.42,"end":869.42,"text":"他們調查的適用"},{"start":869.42,"end":871.42,"text":"這個我們會做一個完整的"},{"start":871.42,"end":874.42,"text":"以及台北市政府如何回應委員的"},{"start":874.42,"end":876.42,"text":"那個整個訊息"},{"start":876.42,"end":878.42,"text":"我們完整的併入調查內"},{"start":878.42,"end":880.42,"text":"剛剛所提的包含台北市"},{"start":880.42,"end":882.42,"text":"我們7月16號給他要求了之後"},{"start":882.42,"end":885.42,"text":"相關的調查7月28號已經廢止"},{"start":885.42,"end":888.42,"text":"另外我們請他在8月10號前"},{"start":888.42,"end":890.42,"text":"要把所有這整個處置的過程"},{"start":890.42,"end":891.42,"text":"給我們說明"},{"start":891.42,"end":894.42,"text":"會併入委員剛才提醒的幾件事情的調查"},{"start":894.42,"end":895.42,"text":"以上補充"},{"start":895.42,"end":896.42,"text":"我還是要講"},{"start":896.42,"end":898.42,"text":"外僑學校在台灣辦學"},{"start":898.42,"end":899.42,"text":"收的是我們台灣的孩子"},{"start":899.42,"end":901.42,"text":"為什麼跟其他台灣"},{"start":901.42,"end":905.42,"text":"本來就是我們本地的辦學的那個制度不太一樣"},{"start":905.42,"end":907.42,"text":"再來就是"},{"start":907.42,"end":910.42,"text":"夏立思今年不是第一期"},{"start":910.42,"end":915.42,"text":"那在2024年受害13個孩子"},{"start":915.42,"end":918.42,"text":"教孩子學狗爬20分鐘"},{"start":918.42,"end":920.42,"text":"然後吃嘔吐物"},{"start":920.42,"end":923.42,"text":"那是76期的不當對待"},{"start":923.42,"end":924.42,"text":"結果呢"},{"start":924.42,"end":925.42,"text":"有怎麼樣"},{"start":925.42,"end":926.42,"text":"因為非常輕"},{"start":926.42,"end":929.42,"text":"到2026年現在7月"},{"start":929.42,"end":931.42,"text":"然後家長面對這個問題"},{"start":931.42,"end":932.42,"text":"又來找我們說"},{"start":932.42,"end":933.42,"text":"奇怪了"},{"start":933.42,"end":935.42,"text":"你大安分園如果有發生這樣的事情"},{"start":935.42,"end":939.42,"text":"為什麼集團式的不會有等同去考量"},{"start":939.42,"end":941.42,"text":"就像我們去年辦"},{"start":941.42,"end":943.42,"text":"去年開的記者會"},{"start":943.42,"end":945.42,"text":"新北市某一個幼兒園連鎖的"},{"start":945.42,"end":947.42,"text":"他桃園也有新北也有台北也有"},{"start":947.42,"end":948.42,"text":"一家嗎"},{"start":948.42,"end":950.42,"text":"結果好幾家都這樣"},{"start":950.42,"end":953.42,"text":"那集團式的有沒有有一些要求在"},{"start":953.42,"end":956.42,"text":"還是讓他們甚至沒有關係"},{"start":956.42,"end":958.42,"text":"只有一家你就裁處一家裁不很輕"},{"start":958.42,"end":961.42,"text":"就接下來又下一家又發生這樣的事情"},{"start":961.42,"end":963.42,"text":"甚至我剛才也提過"},{"start":963.42,"end":965.42,"text":"又家又幼兒園"},{"start":965.42,"end":968.42,"text":"怎麼念頭的老師還可以到他連鎖的補習班"},{"start":968.42,"end":969.42,"text":"繼續上班"},{"start":969.42,"end":972.42,"text":"然後每天孩子還要看到這些人"},{"start":972.42,"end":974.42,"text":"這樣子合情合理嗎"},{"start":974.42,"end":978.42,"text":"孩子每天還是在恐懼當中生活"},{"start":978.42,"end":979.42,"text":"所以請問署長"},{"start":979.42,"end":981.42,"text":"一個幼兒園集團下已經分園"},{"start":981.42,"end":982.42,"text":"已經發生耳虐事件"},{"start":982.42,"end":984.42,"text":"地方政府是不是應該提高"},{"start":984.42,"end":987.42,"text":"對同一個集團其他分園的監管"},{"start":987.42,"end":991.42,"text":"2024年大安分園出事"},{"start":991.42,"end":994.42,"text":"那2024到臺北市政府2025 24"},{"start":994.42,"end":997.42,"text":"有沒有去加強查緝其他的"},{"start":997.42,"end":1000.42,"text":"那有沒有針對我們的下立師其他分園"},{"start":1000.42,"end":1003.42,"text":"甚至有沒有把這個集團列為高風險的對象"},{"start":1003.42,"end":1007.42,"text":"否則他的大安跟我們現在萬華一樣的樣態"},{"start":1007.42,"end":1010.42,"text":"對孩子這麼殘忍呼巴掌踹踢"},{"start":1010.42,"end":1013.42,"text":"然後甚至強迫灌食叫孩子學狗爬"},{"start":1013.42,"end":1016.42,"text":"剛委員提到今年的這一期"},{"start":1016.42,"end":1019.42,"text":"那麼他同時有去就另外一個幼兒園"},{"start":1019.42,"end":1021.42,"text":"以及他的補習班還有托嬰中心"},{"start":1021.42,"end":1024.42,"text":"總共發生事情的這個幼兒園兩員"},{"start":1024.42,"end":1027.42,"text":"補習班跟托嬰中心都有一些查查"},{"start":1027.42,"end":1028.42,"text":"那麼查查之後"},{"start":1028.42,"end":1031.42,"text":"那麼還是集中在目前發生這個事情的這個幼兒園"},{"start":1031.42,"end":1035.42,"text":"大概14天內監視器發現有58起"},{"start":1035.42,"end":1038.42,"text":"大概這樣所以整體是有一起做集團式的整個整理"},{"start":1038.42,"end":1041.42,"text":"至於2024年那一次的我們也去查一下"},{"start":1041.42,"end":1045.42,"text":"回溯看看他當時發生的那個大安的事情"},{"start":1045.42,"end":1046.42,"text":"署長是問你"},{"start":1046.42,"end":1050.42,"text":"是如果已經是連鎖性的發生一起"},{"start":1050.42,"end":1052.42,"text":"那其他的到底要不要加強"},{"start":1052.42,"end":1055.42,"text":"因為管理者都是同樣一批人"},{"start":1055.42,"end":1057.42,"text":"這很危險也風險高"},{"start":1057.42,"end":1059.42,"text":"而且我說去年我們開某一家"},{"start":1059.42,"end":1060.42,"text":"他也是連鎖性的"},{"start":1060.42,"end":1062.42,"text":"果然他好幾家都發生這樣的事情"},{"start":1062.42,"end":1065.42,"text":"然後有的地方政府採取的非常輕"},{"start":1065.42,"end":1070.42,"text":"那後來就會使得他這樣管理造成其他的無所謂"},{"start":1070.42,"end":1072.42,"text":"所以其他縣市陸續爆發"},{"start":1072.42,"end":1075.42,"text":"最後問你都有這一本"},{"start":1075.42,"end":1077.42,"text":"是台北市不理你嗎"},{"start":1077.42,"end":1080.42,"text":"你本來就有違法事件的參考的守則"},{"start":1080.42,"end":1082.42,"text":"應該要給心理諮商"},{"start":1082.42,"end":1084.42,"text":"甚至目睹兒童都要給"},{"start":1084.42,"end":1086.42,"text":"那受害的孩子都沒給"},{"start":1086.42,"end":1088.42,"text":"我也很懷疑目睹的兒童有沒有給"},{"start":1088.42,"end":1090.42,"text":"然後應該給調查報告"},{"start":1090.42,"end":1091.42,"text":"應該給監視器"},{"start":1091.42,"end":1093.42,"text":"甚至要停職都不做"},{"start":1093.42,"end":1096.42,"text":"那署長這到底是在保護我們的孩子"},{"start":1096.42,"end":1098.42,"text":"還是真正在保護地方政府"},{"start":1098.42,"end":1100.42,"text":"還在保護我們的加害人"},{"start":1100.42,"end":1103.42,"text":"還是這麼小一定要政府全力來保護"},{"start":1103.42,"end":1105.42,"text":"所以剛剛委員所提到的那一本"},{"start":1105.42,"end":1107.42,"text":"我們會用那一本的包含流程"},{"start":1107.42,"end":1109.42,"text":"或相關因處理的事項來進行檢視"},{"start":1109.42,"end":1111.42,"text":"那麼他完整的報完調查報告之後"},{"start":1111.42,"end":1113.42,"text":"我們會做一一的檢視"},{"start":1113.42,"end":1114.42,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":1114.42,"end":1115.42,"text":"我也希望這幾起的"},{"start":1115.42,"end":1117.42,"text":"甚至我剛剛提到到現在"},{"start":1117.42,"end":1120.42,"text":"至今這些狀況是不是可以給我一個檢討報告"},{"start":1120.42,"end":1121.42,"text":"讓我知道"},{"start":1121.42,"end":1124.42,"text":"否則的話我覺得一直這幾年來"},{"start":1124.42,"end":1127.42,"text":"每次受到家長這些陳情信的時候"},{"start":1127.42,"end":1129.42,"text":"我們真的非常心痛"},{"start":1129.42,"end":1131.42,"text":"我們一直在催生"},{"start":1131.42,"end":1134.42,"text":"可是又沒有辦法去處理"},{"start":1134.42,"end":1136.42,"text":"讓地方政府真的好好保護我們的孩子"},{"start":1136.42,"end":1139.42,"text":"這不會是我們台灣的福氣"},{"start":1139.42,"end":1140.42,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":1140.42,"end":1141.42,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":1141.42,"end":1144.42,"text":"好謝謝林瑋瓊、張二維的"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}