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end":454.5,"text":"是誰把他變得政治化"},{"start":454.5,"end":457.5,"text":"你連有一次六都開會去污衊"},{"start":457.5,"end":460.5,"text":"桃園台中副市長你到現在還沒有道歉"},{"start":460.5,"end":461.5,"text":"錄音也不敢公布"},{"start":461.5,"end":463.5,"text":"是誰把他搞得很政治化"},{"start":463.5,"end":464.5,"text":"是你吧"},{"start":464.5,"end":466.5,"text":"我還是回到"},{"start":466.5,"end":468.5,"text":"這個食安就是科學的問題"},{"start":468.5,"end":472.5,"text":"那你要不要跟台中市桃園市副市長道歉"},{"start":473.5,"end":475.5,"text":"當時我已經道歉過了"},{"start":475.5,"end":477.5,"text":"我的記憶上沒有把它弄清楚"},{"start":477.5,"end":480.5,"text":"所以不用公布紀錄了"},{"start":480.5,"end":482.5,"text":"結果你後來回想起來他們也沒講"},{"start":482.5,"end":484.5,"text":"要不要公布紀錄不是我決定"},{"start":484.5,"end":485.5,"text":"這個是在行政院的院會"},{"start":485.5,"end":487.5,"text":"好中聯是誰"},{"start":487.5,"end":491.5,"text":"就是那個被收押的余總經理嗎"},{"start":491.5,"end":493.5,"text":"對阿"},{"start":493.5,"end":495.5,"text":"他已經被收押了"},{"start":495.5,"end":499.5,"text":"連檢方都認為他從頭到尾都有可能串正"},{"start":499.5,"end":501.5,"text":"從頭到尾都有可能說謊"},{"start":501.5,"end":505.5,"text":"然後你找他去討論我們20%要不要下架"},{"start":506.5,"end":509.5,"text":"他沒有參與討論20%的下架"},{"start":509.5,"end":511.5,"text":"他是來報告他的製程"},{"start":511.5,"end":515.5,"text":"然後我們的專家委員決定不能夠復工"},{"start":515.5,"end":517.5,"text":"他第一時間就應該要被收押"},{"start":517.5,"end":518.5,"text":"這是第一點"},{"start":518.5,"end":520.5,"text":"能不能要不要收押"},{"start":520.5,"end":522.5,"text":"第二點你把他講的那麼糟糕"},{"start":522.5,"end":526.5,"text":"從你一個月前的備詢把他講的這麼糟糕"},{"start":526.5,"end":527.5,"text":"你還把他找來列行"},{"start":527.5,"end":529.5,"text":"你就已經不相信他了"},{"start":529.5,"end":530.5,"text":"民眾也不相信他"},{"start":530.5,"end":533.5,"text":"你連他4月以前的郵有沒有出問題"},{"start":533.5,"end":534.5,"text":"你也講不出來"},{"start":534.5,"end":536.5,"text":"你還告訴我說他樣本都丟"},{"start":536.5,"end":538.5,"text":"他們提出要復工"},{"start":538.5,"end":540.5,"text":"我們當然要請他來報告"},{"start":540.5,"end":542.5,"text":"然後經過專家會議討論之後"},{"start":542.5,"end":544.5,"text":"決定不能復工"},{"start":544.5,"end":546.5,"text":"這個程序完全是正當"},{"start":547.5,"end":552.5,"text":"至於後面檢方發現這個中間有串供或者之餘去把他收押"},{"start":552.5,"end":554.5,"text":"那個是另外一件事情"},{"start":554.5,"end":555.5,"text":"好 再來"},{"start":555.5,"end":558.5,"text":"這個是不是行政疏失"},{"start":558.5,"end":561.5,"text":"我要求你行政調查一中內提供報告"},{"start":561.5,"end":564.5,"text":"因為你自己一開始也說怪怪的"},{"start":564.5,"end":565.5,"text":"聽到28%覺得怪怪"},{"start":565.5,"end":567.5,"text":"連你自己都覺得怪怪的"},{"start":567.5,"end":570.5,"text":"後來陳其邁也出來說怎麼會誰定出這20%的"},{"start":570.5,"end":573.5,"text":"這種事情你不用進入行政調查嗎"},{"start":573.5,"end":575.5,"text":"這個你要不要給我報告"},{"start":575.5,"end":577.5,"text":"第一個報告我是要跟他會議記錄"},{"start":577.5,"end":579.5,"text":"20%的會議記錄"},{"start":579.5,"end":581.5,"text":"這個是專家會議大家討論出的結果"},{"start":581.5,"end":584.5,"text":"你自己內部不用行政調查嗎"},{"start":584.5,"end":586.5,"text":"請問要調查什麼"},{"start":586.5,"end":588.5,"text":"你自己也說怪怪的"},{"start":588.5,"end":591.5,"text":"沒有 這個就是由專家會議討論出來"},{"start":591.5,"end":592.5,"text":"那你說陳其邁講出來"},{"start":592.5,"end":593.5,"text":"一開始"},{"start":593.5,"end":594.5,"text":"那你說嘛"},{"start":594.5,"end":599.5,"text":"106年我們從這個食品風險評估"},{"start":599.5,"end":600.5,"text":"不用了啦"},{"start":600.5,"end":602.5,"text":"上禮拜我就跟你討論過了"},{"start":602.5,"end":604.5,"text":"上禮拜你都說106年"},{"start":604.5,"end":606.5,"text":"我說那你也可以加嚴"},{"start":606.5,"end":607.5,"text":"加嚴可以定15%"},{"start":607.5,"end":608.5,"text":"可以定10%"},{"start":608.5,"end":609.5,"text":"你為什麼要定20%"},{"start":609.5,"end":613.5,"text":"本來只有第一層下架"},{"start":613.5,"end":617.5,"text":"按照過去的專家諮議會的決定是第一層"},{"start":617.5,"end":619.5,"text":"所以這個7月4號的會議"},{"start":619.5,"end":622.5,"text":"其實專家的決定是加嚴的"},{"start":623.5,"end":625.5,"text":"10%就更加嚴"},{"start":625.5,"end":627.5,"text":"15%更加嚴"},{"start":627.5,"end":631.5,"text":"所有都是按照科學證據風險評估"},{"start":631.5,"end":633.5,"text":"由專家大家討論出來的建議"},{"start":633.5,"end":637.5,"text":"所以這個程序上都跟過去的程序一樣"},{"start":637.5,"end":639.5,"text":"即使我們後面要確認"},{"start":639.5,"end":641.5,"text":"程序上都跟過去的程序一樣"},{"start":641.5,"end":643.5,"text":"表示過去可以公布名單"},{"start":643.5,"end":644.5,"text":"現在也可以"},{"start":644.5,"end":646.5,"text":"萊豬也很有爭議"},{"start":646.5,"end":648.5,"text":"核食也很有爭議"},{"start":648.5,"end":651.5,"text":"大家每一個專家名單都坦蕩蕩的出來啦"},{"start":651.5,"end":653.5,"text":"我們詢問過專家之後"},{"start":653.5,"end":657.5,"text":"會來按照專家的意願來協助"},{"start":657.5,"end":658.5,"text":"我跟你說"},{"start":658.5,"end":660.5,"text":"如果你沒有要交行政調查報告"},{"start":660.5,"end":663.5,"text":"就表示陳其邁說的是錯的"},{"start":663.5,"end":664.5,"text":"那每一次質詢"},{"start":664.5,"end":666.5,"text":"我第一頁就會問你這個"},{"start":666.5,"end":667.5,"text":"我會做一個電子儀標板"},{"start":667.5,"end":670.5,"text":"你沒有要調查20%這個決策"},{"start":670.5,"end":671.5,"text":"滾動"},{"start":671.5,"end":674.5,"text":"滾到這麼多食物"},{"start":674.5,"end":675.5,"text":"本來都在加嚴"},{"start":675.5,"end":677.5,"text":"後來全部下架"},{"start":677.5,"end":680.5,"text":"這個行政責任沒有人要負責"},{"start":681.5,"end":682.5,"text":"你自己說"},{"start":682.5,"end":684.5,"text":"你上禮拜還說你會為人負責"},{"start":684.5,"end":688.5,"text":"所有的處理都是按照科學的證據"},{"start":688.5,"end":691.5,"text":"風險的評估動態的調整"},{"start":691.5,"end":692.5,"text":"任何事件都是這樣"},{"start":692.5,"end":693.5,"text":"沒關係"},{"start":693.5,"end":696.5,"text":"科學的證據你自己還會說自己乖乖的"},{"start":696.5,"end":698.5,"text":"然後後來陳其邁還會罵"},{"start":698.5,"end":700.5,"text":"那就表示說石崔堂是對的"},{"start":700.5,"end":701.5,"text":"陳其邁是錯的"},{"start":701.5,"end":704.5,"text":"我跟委員一樣都不是食品的專家"},{"start":704.5,"end":706.5,"text":"所以我們當然要尊重專家的決定"},{"start":706.5,"end":709.5,"text":"所以你的意思說陳其邁也不是食品的專家"},{"start":709.5,"end":710.5,"text":"所以他講錯了"},{"start":710.5,"end":711.5,"text":"我沒有辦法替他講"},{"start":711.5,"end":714.5,"text":"不需要有人去追究20%行政責任"},{"start":715.5,"end":717.5,"text":"這個都是按照程序走"},{"start":717.5,"end":719.5,"text":"我不認為這個是什麼行政責任"},{"start":719.5,"end":722.5,"text":"再來我們來看一下幾種"},{"start":722.5,"end":725.5,"text":"上禮拜有人在講到蘋果放寬容許值"},{"start":725.5,"end":727.5,"text":"我今天整理出不只蘋果"},{"start":727.5,"end":729.5,"text":"還有很多水果"},{"start":729.5,"end":731.5,"text":"以及大家每天都可能吃到的東西"},{"start":731.5,"end":734.5,"text":"居然在今年一下子放寬非常多"},{"start":734.5,"end":736.5,"text":"好這個我以前質詢過"},{"start":736.5,"end":737.5,"text":"113年"},{"start":737.5,"end":740.5,"text":"草莓邊境嵐下很多違規的草莓"},{"start":740.5,"end":746.5,"text":"後來食藥署那個月3月29就公布說要修正"},{"start":746.5,"end":748.5,"text":"容許值讓它高一點"},{"start":748.5,"end":750.5,"text":"4月1號就施行了"},{"start":750.5,"end":752.5,"text":"我從我開始質詢到現在"},{"start":752.5,"end":754.5,"text":"我全部再去找一遍"},{"start":754.5,"end":759.5,"text":"結果發現草莓一口氣開了12支農藥"},{"start":759.5,"end":763.5,"text":"其中11支標準根本沒有這項"},{"start":763.5,"end":765.5,"text":"也就是本來都是不得檢出的"},{"start":765.5,"end":768.5,"text":"然後也沒有任何申請人"},{"start":768.5,"end":770.5,"text":"是政府主動要申請的"},{"start":770.5,"end":772.5,"text":"這個跟王昱敏委員問到"},{"start":772.5,"end":773.5,"text":"還有一家一樣的"},{"start":773.5,"end":775.5,"text":"駐插化學"},{"start":775.5,"end":777.5,"text":"全部都是外國的機構"},{"start":777.5,"end":780.5,"text":"或者是外國的農藥公司提出申請"},{"start":780.5,"end":783.5,"text":"食藥署要做的是什麼"},{"start":783.5,"end":784.5,"text":"你每天跟我們要預算"},{"start":784.5,"end":787.5,"text":"說你們要加強去稽查"},{"start":787.5,"end":790.5,"text":"加強查出哪一些違規"},{"start":790.5,"end":792.5,"text":"結果你們做了什麼"},{"start":792.5,"end":794.5,"text":"你們是開放更多"},{"start":794.5,"end":798.5,"text":"本來零檢出的東西的容許值"},{"start":798.5,"end":800.5,"text":"這個你知道嗎"},{"start":800.5,"end":802.5,"text":"這個還是一句話"},{"start":802.5,"end":804.5,"text":"實案就是一個科學的問題"},{"start":804.5,"end":806.5,"text":"都要經過風險的評估"},{"start":806.5,"end":808.5,"text":"等一下我都幫你回答就好了"},{"start":808.5,"end":810.5,"text":"這邊又有好多專家"},{"start":810.5,"end":812.5,"text":"然後等一下再一份一份跟你要"},{"start":812.5,"end":814.5,"text":"然後你要再去跟專家問他們的名字"},{"start":814.5,"end":816.5,"text":"可不可以被公開"},{"start":816.5,"end":819.5,"text":"那等一下我幫你回答就好了"},{"start":819.5,"end":820.5,"text":"表示委員很清楚"},{"start":820.5,"end":823.5,"text":"我們看一下蘋果"},{"start":823.5,"end":825.5,"text":"這個王運銘委員問了"},{"start":825.5,"end":827.5,"text":"你一口氣放寬了六倍"},{"start":827.5,"end":829.5,"text":"我問你兩個問題就好了"},{"start":829.5,"end":834.5,"text":"裡面業者提供26場次的數據"},{"start":834.5,"end":835.5,"text":"22場不符"},{"start":835.5,"end":838.5,"text":"你們只用了4個場次的數據"},{"start":838.5,"end":840.5,"text":"這是第一個問題"},{"start":840.5,"end":842.5,"text":"他才4個場次"},{"start":842.5,"end":845.5,"text":"所有在訂這些標準的時候"},{"start":845.5,"end":847.5,"text":"不是簡單的加減乘除"},{"start":847.5,"end":851.5,"text":"他都是經過這個實驗上的收集數據"},{"start":851.5,"end":854.5,"text":"符合我們的要求標準"},{"start":854.5,"end":856.5,"text":"才能夠被採納的科學證據"},{"start":856.5,"end":858.5,"text":"所以即使是數字"},{"start":858.5,"end":860.5,"text":"他不是簡單的加減乘除"},{"start":860.5,"end":862.5,"text":"那你看第二個數字"},{"start":862.5,"end":864.5,"text":"最後你們用了4場"},{"start":864.5,"end":865.5,"text":"很荒謬的是26場"},{"start":865.5,"end":867.5,"text":"你們只用了4場數據"},{"start":867.5,"end":868.5,"text":"很怪"},{"start":868.5,"end":869.5,"text":"第二個"},{"start":869.5,"end":871.5,"text":"這個是我們採取嚴謹的"},{"start":871.5,"end":873.5,"text":"4場數據的殘留量"},{"start":873.5,"end":876.5,"text":"訂出來是0.48到1.125ppm"},{"start":876.5,"end":879.5,"text":"你們把容許值修到3ppm"},{"start":879.5,"end":880.5,"text":"你看看右邊"},{"start":880.5,"end":881.5,"text":"日本自己訂2"},{"start":881.5,"end":882.5,"text":"歐盟0.01"},{"start":882.5,"end":884.5,"text":"澳洲0.00"},{"start":884.5,"end":888.5,"text":"這個是用推估的方式去做出來的"},{"start":888.5,"end":891.5,"text":"但因為我們要設的是一個容許值"},{"start":891.5,"end":893.5,"text":"不是一個絕對值"},{"start":893.5,"end":898.5,"text":"同一個分譜你回去看一下"},{"start":898.5,"end":899.5,"text":"第一個"},{"start":899.5,"end":904.5,"text":"26場數據你用了4場數據"},{"start":904.5,"end":905.5,"text":"冰桃"},{"start":905.5,"end":908.5,"text":"6個場數據你用了6個場數據"},{"start":910.5,"end":911.5,"text":"沒有我們就是看看"},{"start":911.5,"end":913.5,"text":"你的一切依照科學的標準"},{"start":913.5,"end":915.5,"text":"每一頁要回答到哪一頁"},{"start":915.5,"end":917.5,"text":"再來葡萄"},{"start":917.5,"end":919.5,"text":"這個也是全部都是食藥署的資料"},{"start":919.5,"end":921.5,"text":"食藥署裡面會有一個資料會講說"},{"start":921.5,"end":924.5,"text":"每一個農藥可能造成什麼影響"},{"start":924.5,"end":926.5,"text":"然後根據國際的標準"},{"start":926.5,"end":927.5,"text":"是什麼樣"},{"start":927.5,"end":929.5,"text":"這個是葡萄"},{"start":929.5,"end":932.5,"text":"葡萄裡面講了一個亞派戰"},{"start":932.5,"end":935.5,"text":"他說美國環保署劃分為"},{"start":935.5,"end":938.5,"text":"likely to be 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,{"start":1166.5,"end":1168.5,"text":"這些東西我們會跟你要"},{"start":1168.5,"end":1170.5,"text":"我們過去都有標準"},{"start":1170.5,"end":1172.5,"text":"我們會發文跟你要"},{"start":1172.5,"end":1174.5,"text":"至於行政責任的話"},{"start":1174.5,"end":1178.5,"text":"我們也會每天訂20%"},{"start":1178.5,"end":1180.5,"text":"這個行政調查報告"},{"start":1180.5,"end":1182.5,"text":"到底什麼時候會產出"},{"start":1182.5,"end":1184.5,"text":"我們會做一個電子儀表板"},{"start":1184.5,"end":1186.5,"text":"讓全國人知道原來"},{"start":1186.5,"end":1188.5,"text":"三天內五天內修改政策"},{"start":1188.5,"end":1190.5,"text":"無數次官員是不用負責的"},{"start":1190.5,"end":1192.5,"text":"也不用交報告的"},{"start":1192.5,"end":1194.5,"text":"這個我們也會訂"},{"start":1194.5,"end":1196.5,"text":"等一下就跟你所知謝謝"},{"start":1196.5,"end":1198.5,"text":"這個完全按照我們過去的程序在進行"},{"start":1198.5,"end":1200.5,"text":"我想沒有什麼問題"},{"start":1200.5,"end":1202.5,"text":"好謝謝陳金輝委員發言"},{"start":1202.5,"end":1204.5,"text":"接下來請邱惠祿委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}