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各位政府部門的官員 大家好"},{"start":8.700000000000001,"end":9.72,"text":"有請石部長"},{"start":9.72,"end":11,"text":"有請石部長"},{"start":11,"end":15.620000000000001,"text":"好 委員好"},{"start":15.620000000000001,"end":16.9,"text":"是 部長好"},{"start":16.9,"end":18.94,"text":"我想給你請教"},{"start":18.94,"end":20.22,"text":"安樂死的議題"},{"start":20.22,"end":23.3,"text":"那日前呢 我們的柯文哲主席呢"},{"start":23.3,"end":25.86,"text":"有去拜訪一對寒病的姐弟"},{"start":25.86,"end":28.66,"text":"那這個弟弟呢 在柯主席拜訪完之後"},{"start":29.38,"end":32.2,"text":"其實就是前往瑞士 然後進行安樂死"},{"start":32.2,"end":34.14,"text":"其實已經尊嚴善終了"},{"start":34.14,"end":35.78,"text":"那第一個問題我想請問你"},{"start":35.78,"end":37.88,"text":"請問你支持台灣"},{"start":37.88,"end":40.26,"text":"施行安樂死嗎"},{"start":40.26,"end":41.78,"text":"其實尊嚴善終"},{"start":41.78,"end":45.06,"text":"我看貴黨團所提出的叫尊嚴善終法"},{"start":45.06,"end":47.260000000000005,"text":"其實我們的目標是一樣的"},{"start":47.260000000000005,"end":51.760000000000005,"text":"都是希望讓這個病人能夠"},{"start":51.760000000000005,"end":54.32,"text":"按照自主的意願 尊嚴善終"},{"start":54.32,"end":55.84,"text":"我想這個目標是一樣"},{"start":55.84,"end":57.44,"text":"所以你支持安樂死嗎"},{"start":57.46,"end":60.46,"text":"在做法上面 其實它有一些漸進式"},{"start":60.46,"end":63.44,"text":"我們是先採取比較消極"},{"start":63.44,"end":66.34,"text":"如果你要說我們現在的病毒法"},{"start":66.34,"end":69.3,"text":"其實它也是一種消極的安樂死"},{"start":69.3,"end":72.94,"text":"就是說按照疾病的過程不多外力"},{"start":72.94,"end":74.82,"text":"可是現在就是"},{"start":74.82,"end":76.7,"text":"那麼現在這個"},{"start":76.7,"end":79.46,"text":"我看了這個民眾黨所提出的版本"},{"start":79.46,"end":83.34,"text":"其實相當的詳細 條文也相當的多"},{"start":83.34,"end":86.46,"text":"安寧緩和調條例是消極的安樂死"},{"start":86.47999999999999,"end":88.27999999999999,"text":"我直接問 積極的安樂死"},{"start":88.27999999999999,"end":90.28,"text":"請問你接受嗎"},{"start":90.28,"end":90.91999999999999,"text":"是"},{"start":90.91999999999999,"end":92.91999999999999,"text":"那我想這個需要來討論"},{"start":92.91999999999999,"end":93.91999999999999,"text":"需要來討論"},{"start":93.91999999999999,"end":95.91999999999999,"text":"所以是支持還是不支持"},{"start":95.91999999999999,"end":96.39999999999999,"text":"我們在"},{"start":96.39999999999999,"end":97.11999999999999,"text":"不反對嗎"},{"start":97.11999999999999,"end":99.11999999999999,"text":"在概念上尊嚴善終"},{"start":99.11999999999999,"end":100.11999999999999,"text":"我們大家是一致的"},{"start":100.11999999999999,"end":100.61999999999999,"text":"是"},{"start":100.61999999999999,"end":102.11999999999999,"text":"那只是做法上面"},{"start":102.11999999999999,"end":104.11999999999999,"text":"從積極的安樂死到"},{"start":104.11999999999999,"end":106.11999999999999,"text":"我現在就是在講積極的安樂死"},{"start":106.11999999999999,"end":109.11999999999999,"text":"因為台灣現在已經有學理上消極的安樂死"},{"start":109.11999999999999,"end":111.11999999999999,"text":"也就是安寧緩和醫療條例"},{"start":111.11999999999999,"end":112.11999999999999,"text":"跟病人自主權利法"},{"start":112.11999999999999,"end":114.11999999999999,"text":"那是用消極的作為"},{"start":114.11999999999999,"end":115.11999999999999,"text":"消極的不作為"},{"start":115.28,"end":119.28,"text":"不給予CPR 不給予茶館 不給予人工營養"},{"start":119.28,"end":121.28,"text":"這些都是消極不作為"},{"start":121.28,"end":123.28,"text":"我現在問的就是積極的作為"},{"start":123.28,"end":125.28,"text":"也就是我們俗稱的安樂死"},{"start":125.28,"end":126.28,"text":"積極的安樂死"},{"start":126.28,"end":128.28,"text":"請問您支持嗎 還是反對"},{"start":128.28,"end":130.28,"text":"還是這個答案是"},{"start":130.28,"end":132.28,"text":"我剛剛提到"},{"start":132.28,"end":134.28,"text":"這個不是個人"},{"start":134.28,"end":136.28,"text":"因為你有一點答非所問"},{"start":136.28,"end":138.28,"text":"我是問積極的 你扯到消極的"},{"start":138.28,"end":140.28,"text":"我必須要講 這個不是個人"},{"start":140.28,"end":142.28,"text":"今天我"},{"start":142.28,"end":144.28,"text":"那以時同良個人 時同良醫師"},{"start":144.44,"end":146.44,"text":"現在是採取"},{"start":146.44,"end":148.44,"text":"如果你問我個人"},{"start":148.44,"end":150.44,"text":"我以醫師的態度"},{"start":150.44,"end":152.44,"text":"我是不會去執行"},{"start":152.44,"end":154.44,"text":"積極安樂死這件事情"},{"start":154.44,"end":156.44,"text":"所以你就是反對嘛"},{"start":156.44,"end":158.44,"text":"但是 時同良的醫師的角度"},{"start":158.44,"end":160.44,"text":"跟我反對"},{"start":160.44,"end":162.44,"text":"但是從政策的角度上"},{"start":162.44,"end":164.44,"text":"我們必須為了達成"},{"start":164.44,"end":168.44,"text":"病人的尊嚴善忠的目標"},{"start":168.44,"end":170.44,"text":"不斷的來討論"},{"start":170.44,"end":172.44,"text":"訂出一個完善的制度"},{"start":172.6,"end":174.6,"text":"未來期待 目前是不支持安樂死的"},{"start":174.6,"end":176.6,"text":"那 我想請問您支持"},{"start":176.6,"end":178.6,"text":"安樂死公投嗎"},{"start":178.6,"end":180.6,"text":"就是說 應該要來推動"},{"start":180.6,"end":182.6,"text":"安樂死公投 交付社會"},{"start":182.6,"end":184.6,"text":"來對安樂死的意見"},{"start":184.6,"end":186.6,"text":"我認為 這個題目涉及到"},{"start":186.6,"end":188.6,"text":"生命法醫"},{"start":188.6,"end":190.6,"text":"不是簡單的公投議題"},{"start":190.6,"end":192.6,"text":"它應該經過社會的"},{"start":192.6,"end":194.6,"text":"充分溝通"},{"start":194.6,"end":196.6,"text":"不是yes or no 這麼簡單"},{"start":196.6,"end":198.6,"text":"公投沒有要表達yes or no"},{"start":198.6,"end":200.6,"text":"也是要收集大家的意見啦"},{"start":200.76,"end":202.76,"text":"其實 因為你的書面報告"},{"start":202.76,"end":204.76,"text":"今天呈現出來嘛 要收集資料"},{"start":204.76,"end":206.76,"text":"凝聚社會共識"},{"start":206.76,"end":208.76,"text":"那請問一下 如果你不透過公投"},{"start":208.76,"end":210.76,"text":"你要怎麼樣凝聚社會共識"},{"start":210.76,"end":212.76,"text":"公投就是一種方式"},{"start":212.76,"end":214.76,"text":"公投是一種最好的方式"},{"start":214.76,"end":216.76,"text":"也就是賴清德口中所言的最大的民主廣泛的收集"},{"start":216.76,"end":218.76,"text":"這是一個生命的議題"},{"start":218.76,"end":220.76,"text":"就像我們的報告裡面有提到"},{"start":220.76,"end":222.76,"text":"它涉及的層面非常之寬"},{"start":222.76,"end":224.76,"text":"所以應該要多"},{"start":224.76,"end":226.76,"text":"就是說好像有點在迴避的那種感覺"},{"start":226.76,"end":228.76,"text":"其實就是支持或不支持"},{"start":228.92,"end":230.92,"text":"不支持就是一句話"},{"start":230.92,"end":232.92,"text":"其實就很好表達"},{"start":232.92,"end":234.92,"text":"那感覺你好像在迴轉然後再繞"},{"start":234.92,"end":236.92,"text":"然後再迴避的感覺"},{"start":236.92,"end":238.92,"text":"我不認為這是一個好的公投的議題"},{"start":238.92,"end":240.92,"text":"我不覺得安樂死是"},{"start":240.92,"end":242.92,"text":"所以你不支持 更多的討論"},{"start":242.92,"end":244.92,"text":"因為這個討論的層面是非常寬的"},{"start":244.92,"end":246.92,"text":"所以為不不支持收集意見"},{"start":246.92,"end":248.92,"text":"也支持凝聚社會共識"},{"start":248.92,"end":250.92,"text":"但不建議用公投的方式來處理"},{"start":250.92,"end":252.92,"text":"好 那接著我問"},{"start":252.92,"end":254.92,"text":"就是因為你們的司長"},{"start":254.92,"end":256.92,"text":"有曾經接受採訪 提到說"},{"start":257.08000000000004,"end":259.08000000000004,"text":"要解決現在的問題"},{"start":259.08000000000004,"end":261.08000000000004,"text":"反而安寧緩和醫療條例才能"},{"start":261.08000000000004,"end":263.08000000000004,"text":"那我先問一個問題"},{"start":263.08000000000004,"end":265.08000000000004,"text":"請問一下這個48歲的弟弟"},{"start":265.08000000000004,"end":267.08000000000004,"text":"他就跑到瑞士去接受安樂死"},{"start":267.08000000000004,"end":269.08000000000004,"text":"那就是目前的安寧緩和"},{"start":269.08000000000004,"end":271.08000000000004,"text":"醫療條例不能解決他的問題"},{"start":271.08000000000004,"end":273.08000000000004,"text":"他才求助於瑞士的安樂死制度"},{"start":273.08000000000004,"end":275.08000000000004,"text":"那為什麼你們覺得安樂死"},{"start":275.08000000000004,"end":277.08000000000004,"text":"不能解決問題"},{"start":277.08000000000004,"end":279.08000000000004,"text":"反而是安寧緩和醫療條例才能夠解決"},{"start":279.08000000000004,"end":281.08000000000004,"text":"安寧緩和醫療條例如果"},{"start":281.08000000000004,"end":283.08000000000004,"text":"對個案他不是末期病人"},{"start":283.08000000000004,"end":285.08000000000004,"text":"他根本走不進去安寧緩和醫療條例的世界"},{"start":285.24,"end":287.24,"text":"我們有多少人是末期病人"},{"start":287.24,"end":289.24,"text":"其實沒有 有很多需求的人"},{"start":289.24,"end":291.24,"text":"他們不是末期病人"},{"start":291.24,"end":293.24,"text":"他走不進去安寧緩和醫療條例的世界"},{"start":293.24,"end":295.24,"text":"他安寧緩和醫療條例解決不了他的問題"},{"start":295.24,"end":297.24,"text":"所以跟你們這邊講的相反"},{"start":297.24,"end":299.24,"text":"你們是覺得安寧緩和條例可以解決問題"},{"start":299.24,"end":301.24,"text":"安樂死不能啊"},{"start":301.24,"end":303.24,"text":"我不論是"},{"start":303.24,"end":305.24,"text":"這個目前的安寧緩和條例"},{"start":305.24,"end":307.24,"text":"或病主法"},{"start":307.24,"end":309.24,"text":"他在執行這個預立醫療"},{"start":309.24,"end":311.24,"text":"他的決定"},{"start":311.24,"end":313.24,"text":"其實都是針對"},{"start":313.40000000000003,"end":315.40000000000003,"text":"針對這個"},{"start":315.40000000000003,"end":317.40000000000003,"text":"生命的末期"},{"start":317.40000000000003,"end":319.40000000000003,"text":"去進行"},{"start":319.40000000000003,"end":321.40000000000003,"text":"意思就是說你的生命"},{"start":321.40000000000003,"end":323.40000000000003,"text":"你的生命已經在"},{"start":323.40000000000003,"end":325.40000000000003,"text":"可預計的中間"},{"start":325.40000000000003,"end":327.40000000000003,"text":"我們才會用這個方式來處理"},{"start":327.40000000000003,"end":329.40000000000003,"text":"請問一下病長"},{"start":329.40000000000003,"end":331.40000000000003,"text":"剛剛您提的這個個案呢"},{"start":331.40000000000003,"end":333.40000000000003,"text":"他的判斷"},{"start":333.40000000000003,"end":335.40000000000003,"text":"他不是末期病人"},{"start":335.40000000000003,"end":337.40000000000003,"text":"所以安寧緩和醫療條例不能解決他的問題"},{"start":337.40000000000003,"end":339.40000000000003,"text":"是沒有辦法馬上"},{"start":339.40000000000003,"end":341.40000000000003,"text":"就是以這個消極的方式"},{"start":341.56,"end":343.56,"text":"去讓他"},{"start":343.56,"end":345.56,"text":"那所以反而是應該要"},{"start":345.56,"end":347.56,"text":"積極的協助他"},{"start":347.56,"end":349.56,"text":"所以他跑到瑞士去尋求"},{"start":349.56,"end":351.56,"text":"安樂死的做法"},{"start":351.56,"end":353.56,"text":"我想不論是我們的醫療"},{"start":353.56,"end":355.56,"text":"跟社會的協助都應該要"},{"start":355.56,"end":357.56,"text":"所以我只是想要跟衛福部溝通說"},{"start":357.56,"end":359.56,"text":"你們不能夠武斷的說安樂死不能解決問題"},{"start":359.56,"end":361.56,"text":"安寧緩和要條例才能解決"},{"start":361.56,"end":363.56,"text":"事實上我們看到的案例就是相反"},{"start":363.56,"end":365.56,"text":"安寧緩和醫療條例解決不了"},{"start":365.56,"end":367.56,"text":"問題是安樂死才可以"},{"start":367.56,"end":369.56,"text":"那當然安樂死是一個有爭議"},{"start":369.72,"end":371.72,"text":"需要凝聚社會公視的方式"},{"start":371.72,"end":372.92,"text":"好來接著問好"},{"start":372.92,"end":374.12,"text":"施長也有提到說"},{"start":374.12,"end":376.12,"text":"喊病本來就是在病人自主權利法"},{"start":376.12,"end":377.12,"text":"的範圍之內"},{"start":377.12,"end":379.12,"text":"那只要透過預立醫療決定"},{"start":379.12,"end":381.12,"text":"然後在疾病末期的時候"},{"start":381.12,"end":383.12,"text":"就有拒絕醫療的權利"},{"start":383.12,"end":385.12,"text":"所以可以達到相同的效果"},{"start":385.12,"end":387.12,"text":"請問一下這個弟弟"},{"start":387.12,"end":389.12,"text":"他能夠使用病人自主權利法嗎"},{"start":389.12,"end":391.12,"text":"不能因為病人自主權利法"},{"start":391.12,"end":393.12,"text":"的第五款有規定11種病人"},{"start":393.12,"end":395.12,"text":"他不在這個範圍之內"},{"start":395.12,"end":397.12,"text":"之外還有他要"},{"start":397.12,"end":399.12,"text":"啟動使用病人自主權利法"},{"start":399.68,"end":401.68,"text":"給他三中的機會"},{"start":401.68,"end":403.68,"text":"只有一個要件就是他必須在"},{"start":403.68,"end":405.68,"text":"幾乎是接近疾病末期"},{"start":405.68,"end":407.68,"text":"這個弟弟48歲"},{"start":407.68,"end":409.68,"text":"他什麼時候才能夠接近疾病末期"},{"start":409.68,"end":411.68,"text":"也可能是10年後也可能是20年後"},{"start":411.68,"end":413.68,"text":"但是他目前就有需要了"},{"start":413.68,"end":415.68,"text":"因為他想尊嚴三中"},{"start":415.68,"end":417.68,"text":"所以你們說病人自主權利法"},{"start":417.68,"end":419.68,"text":"可以達到跟安樂死相同的效果"},{"start":419.68,"end":420.68,"text":"根本達到不了"},{"start":420.68,"end":422.68,"text":"因為這個48歲的弟弟"},{"start":422.68,"end":424.68,"text":"現在如果要透過病人自主權利法"},{"start":424.68,"end":426.68,"text":"他沒有辦法尊嚴三中"},{"start":426.68,"end":428.68,"text":"然後他只能夠去瑞士尋求"},{"start":429.24,"end":431.24,"text":"安樂死才能夠尊嚴三中"},{"start":431.24,"end":433.24,"text":"一個是不可以一個是可以"},{"start":433.24,"end":435.24,"text":"請問怎麼可能怎麼會得出一個結論"},{"start":435.24,"end":437.24,"text":"說會達到相同的效果"},{"start":437.24,"end":439.24,"text":"我想請教部長"},{"start":439.24,"end":441.24,"text":"就如同委員你也同意安樂死"},{"start":441.24,"end":443.24,"text":"是一個充滿社會爭議的議題"},{"start":443.24,"end":445.24,"text":"我本人是贊同的"},{"start":445.24,"end":447.24,"text":"你也認為是這樣"},{"start":447.24,"end":449.24,"text":"我們從歷史上來看也是一樣"},{"start":449.24,"end":451.24,"text":"我們的安樂死反而表現"},{"start":451.24,"end":453.24,"text":"現在2000年的時候"},{"start":453.24,"end":455.24,"text":"才設立"},{"start":455.24,"end":457.24,"text":"所以社會是在進步的"},{"start":457.8,"end":459.8,"text":"在2000年以前"},{"start":459.8,"end":461.8,"text":"我們沒有安寧緩和條例"},{"start":461.8,"end":463.8,"text":"2000年才有安寧緩和條例"},{"start":463.8,"end":465.8,"text":"所以文偉儀家之一"},{"start":465.8,"end":467.8,"text":"2019年我們就"},{"start":467.8,"end":469.8,"text":"實施了這個病人自主權利法"},{"start":469.8,"end":471.8,"text":"所以這個社會會進步的"},{"start":471.8,"end":473.8,"text":"所以你的意思是"},{"start":473.8,"end":475.8,"text":"台灣未來會執行"},{"start":475.8,"end":477.8,"text":"那以你身為部長你覺得"},{"start":477.8,"end":479.8,"text":"台灣的成熟度要多少年之後"},{"start":479.8,"end":481.8,"text":"才會通過安樂死三中"},{"start":481.8,"end":483.8,"text":"我沒有辦法去預期"},{"start":483.8,"end":485.8,"text":"從2002年到2019年的時候"},{"start":486.36,"end":488.36,"text":"我們在2000年的時候"},{"start":488.36,"end":490.36,"text":"才有安寧緩和"},{"start":490.36,"end":492.36,"text":"可是很快的在十幾年後"},{"start":492.36,"end":494.36,"text":"我們又有了病人自主權利法"},{"start":494.36,"end":496.36,"text":"請問一下部長 施長說"},{"start":496.36,"end":498.36,"text":"病人自主權利法跟安樂死"},{"start":498.36,"end":500.36,"text":"一樣可以達到相同的效果"},{"start":500.36,"end":502.36,"text":"請問您認同嗎"},{"start":502.36,"end":504.36,"text":"我剛剛已經提過"},{"start":504.36,"end":506.36,"text":"我們都在朝尊嚴善忠的目標"},{"start":506.36,"end":508.36,"text":"在努力"},{"start":508.36,"end":510.36,"text":"那你都講不出時間表"},{"start":510.36,"end":512.36,"text":"如果今天身為一個負責任的"},{"start":512.36,"end":514.36,"text":"部長應該給我們一個"},{"start":514.92,"end":516.92,"text":"兩年三年讓這些"},{"start":516.92,"end":518.92,"text":"期待透過安樂死的方式"},{"start":518.92,"end":520.92,"text":"來尊嚴善忠的人"},{"start":520.92,"end":522.92,"text":"看到未來一絲曙光好來問"},{"start":522.92,"end":524.92,"text":"問一個問題 醫師施長說"},{"start":524.92,"end":526.92,"text":"安樂死是因為痛苦解決病人"},{"start":526.92,"end":528.92,"text":"安寧緩和調理是因為病人解決痛苦"},{"start":528.92,"end":530.92,"text":"完全很像繞口令"},{"start":530.92,"end":532.92,"text":"那我橫批一句不知所云"},{"start":532.92,"end":534.92,"text":"請部長幫我們"},{"start":534.92,"end":536.92,"text":"開釋這句話"},{"start":536.92,"end":538.9200000000001,"text":"什麼叫做安樂死是因為痛苦解決病人"},{"start":538.9200000000001,"end":540.9200000000001,"text":"安寧緩和調理是因為病人解決痛苦"},{"start":540.9200000000001,"end":542.9200000000001,"text":"幫我們開釋"},{"start":543.4799999999999,"end":545.4799999999999,"text":"這兩句話當中的差別好不好"},{"start":545.4799999999999,"end":547.4799999999999,"text":"為什麼一個是解決病人"},{"start":547.4799999999999,"end":549.4799999999999,"text":"一個是解決痛苦"},{"start":549.4799999999999,"end":551.4799999999999,"text":"可以部長幫我們開釋一下嗎"},{"start":551.4799999999999,"end":553.4799999999999,"text":"我想在安寧緩和醫療當中"},{"start":553.4799999999999,"end":555.4799999999999,"text":"的疼痛控制是很重要的一環"},{"start":555.4799999999999,"end":557.4799999999999,"text":"就包含"},{"start":557.4799999999999,"end":559.4799999999999,"text":"所以它有pan control"},{"start":559.4799999999999,"end":561.4799999999999,"text":"所以在安寧緩和醫療的過程當中"},{"start":561.4799999999999,"end":563.4799999999999,"text":"當然是在解決病人的痛苦"},{"start":563.4799999999999,"end":565.4799999999999,"text":"那但是今天的"},{"start":565.4799999999999,"end":567.48,"text":"但是你們最後不施與他管"},{"start":567.48,"end":569.48,"text":"在安樂死的法案裡面"},{"start":569.48,"end":571.48,"text":"特別提到一個"},{"start":572.04,"end":574.04,"text":"比較容易讓大家爭議的"},{"start":574.04,"end":576.04,"text":"就是因為痛苦無法解決"},{"start":576.04,"end":578.04,"text":"就施行安樂死"},{"start":578.04,"end":580.04,"text":"那麼什麼叫做無法忍受之痛苦"},{"start":580.04,"end":582.04,"text":"這個當然它就"},{"start":582.04,"end":584.04,"text":"其實我們剛剛也提到"},{"start":584.04,"end":586.04,"text":"輸入法不一樣啊"},{"start":586.04,"end":588.04,"text":"一個是透過積極的手段"},{"start":588.04,"end":590.04,"text":"那個叫做安樂死"},{"start":590.04,"end":592.04,"text":"消極的手段叫做安寧緩和藥條例"},{"start":592.04,"end":594.04,"text":"兩個都是相同的目的"},{"start":594.04,"end":596.04,"text":"只是因為它的手段不一樣"},{"start":596.04,"end":598.04,"text":"那怎麼會一個是解決痛苦"},{"start":598.04,"end":600.04,"text":"一個是解決病人"},{"start":600.5999999999999,"end":602.5999999999999,"text":"這個聽在這個有需求的人的眼中"},{"start":602.5999999999999,"end":604.5999999999999,"text":"其實也覺得蠻殘酷"},{"start":604.5999999999999,"end":606.5999999999999,"text":"蠻冷漠的蠻不食人間煙火"},{"start":606.5999999999999,"end":608.5999999999999,"text":"所以我覺得橫批就是不知所云"},{"start":608.5999999999999,"end":610.5999999999999,"text":"好來那現在簡單講一下"},{"start":610.5999999999999,"end":612.5999999999999,"text":"就是我們柯文哲主席"},{"start":612.5999999999999,"end":614.5999999999999,"text":"就提到這個48歲的弟弟"},{"start":614.5999999999999,"end":616.5999999999999,"text":"其實他就是因為照顧自己"},{"start":616.5999999999999,"end":618.5999999999999,"text":"喊病的媽媽然後知道這整個"},{"start":618.5999999999999,"end":620.5999999999999,"text":"照顧過程非常的漫長然後他自己"},{"start":620.5999999999999,"end":622.5999999999999,"text":"日後有可能會面對"},{"start":622.5999999999999,"end":624.5999999999999,"text":"然後再加上長照的量能又不足"},{"start":624.5999999999999,"end":626.5999999999999,"text":"所以他做了審慎的評估之後"},{"start":626.5999999999999,"end":628.5999999999999,"text":"他覺得呢"},{"start":629.16,"end":631.16,"text":"所以他要到瑞士去接受安樂死"},{"start":631.16,"end":633.16,"text":"所以一句話啦如果人可以活得下去"},{"start":633.16,"end":635.16,"text":"為什麼要選擇死亡是不是"},{"start":635.16,"end":637.16,"text":"長照的量能不足然後"},{"start":637.16,"end":639.16,"text":"人沒有辦法尊嚴善終所以安樂死"},{"start":639.16,"end":641.16,"text":"就成為這個無奈的解方"},{"start":641.16,"end":643.16,"text":"部長請問你認同嗎"},{"start":643.16,"end":645.16,"text":"長照量能不足"},{"start":645.16,"end":647.16,"text":"安樂死就成為無奈的解方"},{"start":647.16,"end":649.16,"text":"如果是從委員的這個論點"},{"start":649.16,"end":651.16,"text":"那更不應該有安樂死"},{"start":651.16,"end":653.1600000000001,"text":"讓它合法化"},{"start":653.1600000000001,"end":655.1600000000001,"text":"因為其他國家"},{"start":655.1600000000001,"end":657.1600000000001,"text":"在安樂死有實行的"},{"start":657.7199999999999,"end":659.7199999999999,"text":"最擔心的就是委員所提出的問題"},{"start":659.7199999999999,"end":661.7199999999999,"text":"不能來自於"},{"start":661.7199999999999,"end":663.7199999999999,"text":"家庭的壓力"},{"start":663.7199999999999,"end":665.7199999999999,"text":"經濟的壓力"},{"start":665.7199999999999,"end":667.7199999999999,"text":"或社會的支持不足"},{"start":667.7199999999999,"end":669.7199999999999,"text":"而做成安樂死的決定"},{"start":669.7199999999999,"end":671.7199999999999,"text":"我想社會的"},{"start":671.7199999999999,"end":673.7199999999999,"text":"資源不足"},{"start":673.7199999999999,"end":675.7199999999999,"text":"應該就是整個"},{"start":675.7199999999999,"end":677.7199999999999,"text":"跟你們又接不起這個"},{"start":677.7199999999999,"end":679.7199999999999,"text":"病人接不起這個人"},{"start":679.7199999999999,"end":681.72,"text":"然後又不准他去接受安樂死"},{"start":681.72,"end":683.72,"text":"其實這也是不食人間煙火的"},{"start":683.72,"end":685.72,"text":"一個看法好我們柯主席"},{"start":686.28,"end":688.28,"text":"要去思考醫生最大的敵人"},{"start":688.28,"end":690.28,"text":"到底是病人的死亡還是病人的痛苦"},{"start":690.28,"end":692.28,"text":"如果敵人是病人的死亡"},{"start":692.28,"end":694.28,"text":"那麼我們就為了病人一路拼到底"},{"start":694.28,"end":696.28,"text":"給他一個康復的機會"},{"start":696.28,"end":698.28,"text":"但是如果是選擇病人的痛苦"},{"start":698.28,"end":700.28,"text":"那就要討論他們有沒有"},{"start":700.28,"end":702.28,"text":"生命的自主權"},{"start":702.28,"end":704.28,"text":"所以跟我們一路講下來"},{"start":704.28,"end":706.28,"text":"不管是積極的安樂死或消極的安樂死"},{"start":706.28,"end":708.28,"text":"就是現在安寧環合條例或者"},{"start":708.28,"end":710.28,"text":"病人自主權利法其實都是解決"},{"start":710.28,"end":712.28,"text":"問題的不同方法而已"},{"start":712.28,"end":714.28,"text":"所以人如果真的"},{"start":714.8399999999999,"end":716.8399999999999,"text":"台灣的制度可以用他們不會遠赴瑞士去尋求安樂死"},{"start":716.8399999999999,"end":718.8399999999999,"text":"一定是台灣的制度"},{"start":718.8399999999999,"end":720.8399999999999,"text":"接不住他們嘛"},{"start":720.8399999999999,"end":722.8399999999999,"text":"所以這時候呢我們其實"},{"start":722.8399999999999,"end":724.8399999999999,"text":"應該要讓這麼爭議的話題"},{"start":724.8399999999999,"end":726.8399999999999,"text":"當然社會氛圍改變了"},{"start":726.8399999999999,"end":728.8399999999999,"text":"現在支持安樂死高達百分之七八十"},{"start":728.8399999999999,"end":730.8399999999999,"text":"但我們覺得還是要交付公投"},{"start":730.8399999999999,"end":732.8399999999999,"text":"來收集社會的意見"},{"start":732.8399999999999,"end":734.8399999999999,"text":"然後台灣民眾黨也以社會的"},{"start":734.8399999999999,"end":736.8399999999999,"text":"民意作為推動法案的一個基礎"},{"start":736.8399999999999,"end":738.8399999999999,"text":"好來最後部長"},{"start":738.8399999999999,"end":740.8399999999999,"text":"一個月內請提供報告"},{"start":740.8399999999999,"end":742.8399999999999,"text":"安寧環合條例跟病人自主權利法"},{"start":743.4,"end":745.4,"text":"如何解決這個"},{"start":745.4,"end":747.4,"text":"這個四十八歲喊病"},{"start":747.4,"end":749.4,"text":"弟弟的問題"},{"start":749.4,"end":751.4,"text":"你有辦法解決"},{"start":751.4,"end":753.4,"text":"因為你們從第一張PPT你們說"},{"start":753.4,"end":755.4,"text":"效果相同然後呢安寧環合條例"},{"start":755.4,"end":757.4,"text":"是解方問題是"},{"start":757.4,"end":759.4,"text":"請問一下這四十八歲的喊病弟弟"},{"start":759.4,"end":761.4,"text":"可以被現行的安寧環合條例"},{"start":761.4,"end":763.4,"text":"跟病人自主權利法"},{"start":763.4,"end":765.4,"text":"所接觸嗎我的答案是不行你的答案"},{"start":765.4,"end":767.4000000000001,"text":"是可以請給我一份分析報告"},{"start":767.4000000000001,"end":769.4000000000001,"text":"再來第二個就是台灣實施"},{"start":769.4000000000001,"end":771.4000000000001,"text":"安樂死的可行性評估報告"},{"start":771.9599999999999,"end":773.9599999999999,"text":"這是階段性的問題"},{"start":773.9599999999999,"end":775.9599999999999,"text":"你現在反對但是你知道未來台灣"},{"start":775.9599999999999,"end":777.9599999999999,"text":"有一天會實行所以呢請問一下"},{"start":777.9599999999999,"end":779.9599999999999,"text":"實行的可行性的評估報告"},{"start":779.9599999999999,"end":781.9599999999999,"text":"可否在一個月內提供"},{"start":781.9599999999999,"end":783.9599999999999,"text":"跟委員再重申"},{"start":783.9599999999999,"end":785.9599999999999,"text":"如果是長照的問題"},{"start":785.9599999999999,"end":787.9599999999999,"text":"不能夠用"},{"start":787.9599999999999,"end":789.9599999999999,"text":"安樂死來解決"},{"start":789.9599999999999,"end":791.9599999999999,"text":"我們應該去持續的"},{"start":791.9599999999999,"end":793.9599999999999,"text":"我們強化"},{"start":793.9599999999999,"end":795.96,"text":"長照這是完全不衝突的"},{"start":795.96,"end":797.96,"text":"這是完全不衝突的"},{"start":797.96,"end":799.96,"text":"就像安寧環合條例"},{"start":800.52,"end":802.52,"text":"跟安樂死兩個也是不衝突的"},{"start":802.52,"end":804.52,"text":"他其實就可以雙軌進行"},{"start":804.52,"end":806.52,"text":"那至於長照的問題你如果"},{"start":806.52,"end":808.52,"text":"把它健全化的話我們都要健起程"},{"start":808.52,"end":810.52,"text":"你不要讓有些人覺得說"},{"start":810.52,"end":812.52,"text":"我自己生命的"},{"start":812.52,"end":814.52,"text":"我自己承受"},{"start":814.52,"end":816.52,"text":"疾病的痛苦然後備受折磨"},{"start":816.52,"end":818.52,"text":"然後國家又沒有安樂死制度"},{"start":818.52,"end":820.52,"text":"給我再加上長照又壓垮我"},{"start":820.52,"end":822.52,"text":"所以加速他們去接受"},{"start":822.52,"end":824.52,"text":"安樂死我們要"},{"start":824.52,"end":826.52,"text":"支持安樂死絕對不是因為"},{"start":826.52,"end":828.52,"text":"長照的問題我們是尊重病人的"},{"start":829.0799999999999,"end":831.0799999999999,"text":"病人的自主權他的落實"},{"start":831.0799999999999,"end":833.0799999999999,"text":"他背後的思考是什麼"},{"start":833.0799999999999,"end":835.0799999999999,"text":"也許他真的想散忠"},{"start":835.0799999999999,"end":837.0799999999999,"text":"也許有沒有那麼一點點可能性"},{"start":837.0799999999999,"end":839.0799999999999,"text":"是政府長照的量能不足"},{"start":839.0799999999999,"end":841.0799999999999,"text":"壓垮他們成為最後一根"},{"start":841.0799999999999,"end":843.0799999999999,"text":"稻草就是那一根稻草"},{"start":843.0799999999999,"end":845.0799999999999,"text":"也許壓垮他們的是"},{"start":845.0799999999999,"end":847.0799999999999,"text":"巨石但是最後壓死"},{"start":847.0799999999999,"end":849.0799999999999,"text":"他們的就是那一根稻草"},{"start":849.0799999999999,"end":851.0799999999999,"text":"好以上說明那是不是可以請"},{"start":851.0799999999999,"end":853.0799999999999,"text":"部長這一個月內提供給我們這個報告"},{"start":853.0799999999999,"end":855.0799999999999,"text":"我想施行安樂死的可行性"},{"start":855.0799999999999,"end":857.0799999999999,"text":"的評估這是要很嚴謹的"},{"start":857.64,"end":859.64,"text":"一個月的時間我覺得太多重塑"},{"start":859.64,"end":861.64,"text":"沒問題請你可以給我們一個"},{"start":861.64,"end":863.64,"text":"時間點我都OK"},{"start":863.64,"end":865.64,"text":"我們還是要很"},{"start":865.64,"end":867.64,"text":"嚴謹的去"},{"start":867.64,"end":869.64,"text":"那個招尾已經站起來"},{"start":869.64,"end":871.64,"text":"兩個月我們再討論一下時間"},{"start":871.64,"end":873.64,"text":"兩個月給一個報告當然可以"},{"start":873.64,"end":875.64,"text":"只是他不會夠嚴謹"},{"start":875.64,"end":877.64,"text":"因為我們就要公投了"},{"start":877.64,"end":879.64,"text":"你總不能公投之後才交付報告"},{"start":879.64,"end":881.6400000000001,"text":"這也會讓人民看到這個政府"},{"start":881.6400000000001,"end":883.6400000000001,"text":"的消極不作為跟行政帶動"},{"start":883.6400000000001,"end":885.6400000000001,"text":"這個議題是一個很嚴謹的"},{"start":886.1999999999999,"end":888.1999999999999,"text":"嚴肅的議題不應該用很專注的方式"},{"start":888.1999999999999,"end":890.1999999999999,"text":"一個月不夠"},{"start":890.1999999999999,"end":892.1999999999999,"text":"一年夠嗎你總不能一年"},{"start":892.1999999999999,"end":894.1999999999999,"text":"之後你還覺得一年可以"},{"start":894.1999999999999,"end":896.1999999999999,"text":"一年可以好那我們就只看到"},{"start":896.1999999999999,"end":898.1999999999999,"text":"這個政府用歸宿的速度"},{"start":898.1999999999999,"end":900.1999999999999,"text":"再回應人民的需求"},{"start":900.1999999999999,"end":902.1999999999999,"text":"他一定要做嚴謹的評估"},{"start":902.1999999999999,"end":904.1999999999999,"text":"第一題應該可以"},{"start":904.1999999999999,"end":906.1999999999999,"text":"可以可以好謝謝那我們就是"},{"start":906.1999999999999,"end":908.1999999999999,"text":"政府以歸宿的方式再回應"},{"start":908.1999999999999,"end":910.2,"text":"人民的需求以上說明謝謝"},{"start":910.2,"end":912.2,"text":"這是一個嚴肅的生命議題"},{"start":912.2,"end":914.2,"text":"我們應該很嚴肅的態度來看待"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}