{"error":false,"id":["170779"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170779,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170779","日期":"2026-07-30","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-15-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-30T10:40:47+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-30T10:52:35+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:48","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e0eb45d9b4eab070f65f886f9ec73ed76914948a5b0a2b3d54b580f102200b773b12e6e223e8e7575ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"10:40:47 - 10:52:35","會議時間":"2026-07-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部、國家通訊傳播委員會、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會就「『海路－南島語族航海計畫』、『國際原住民族傳統競技文化交流族語節目（世界原住民族傳統運動會）』、『原住民族廣播電臺訊源傳輸及監控系統設備建置與相關基地台設置』等重大計畫執行進度、經費運用及成果認定檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。二、「原住民身分法」等11案：(一)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「原住民身分法部分條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員郭國文等16人擬具「原住民身分法修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「原住民身分法第十一條條文修正草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員高金素梅等17人擬具「原住民身分法刪除第十一條條文草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文修正草案」案。(七)審查委員黃仁等19人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案。(八)審查委員黃仁等18人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員盧縣一等17人擬具「原住民身分法第四條條文修正草案」案。(十)審查委員陳瑩等16人擬具「原住民身分法第五條條文修正草案」案。(十一)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文修正草案」案。三、「原住民族基本法」等15案：(一)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二條之二條文草案」案。(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。(三)繼續審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。(四)繼續審查委員黃仁等30人擬具「原住民族基本法第十九條條文修正草案」案。(五)繼續審查委員黃仁等26人擬具「原住民族基本法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(六)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第六條之一條文草案」案。(七)繼續審查委員黃仁等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十八條之一條文草案」案。(八)繼續審查委員黃仁等22人擬具「原住民族基本法第十條條文修正草案」案。(九)繼續審查委員黃仁等21人擬具「原住民族基本法第六條條文修正草案」案。(十)繼續審查委員高金素梅等20人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十一)繼續審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十二)繼續審查委員盧縣一等18人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。(十三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。(十四)審查委員林宜瑾等18人擬具「原住民族基本法第二條條文修正草案」案。(十五)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等21人擬具「原住民族基本法第二十一條、第二十一條之一及第二十一條之二條文修正草案」案。【法案進行逐條審查】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":12.636593750000003,"end":13.53096875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":13.868468750000002,"end":17.96909375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":18.559718750000002,"end":19.53846875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":21.192218750000002,"end":24.938468750000002,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":23.85846875,"end":24.90471875,"speaker_score":0.896},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":24.938468750000002,"end":25.63034375,"speaker_score":0.896},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"鄭天財Sra 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Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:41:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:41:58.666667+08:00","text":"這裡面有沒有用到教文處或是原文會族語這方面的經費？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:04+08:00","text":"好，我請業務單位跟委員說明。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:06+08:00","text":"好，請處長。謝謝。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:16.500000+08:00","text":"有關這次「海陸─南島語族航海計畫」是用我們過去國語方案的經費來給予支持。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:18.750000+08:00","text":"有沒有族語的經費？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:20.666667+08:00","text":"有，在國語方案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:42.500000+08:00","text":"所以針對這個部分，我是非常不認同，我們語言的經費就是要讓我們族語能夠傳承，讓我們的學生、小朋友能夠學習。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:43.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:52.777778+08:00","text":"接下來，有關世界原住民族傳統運動會，這有沒有用到原住民族語言的經費？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳處長坤昇","start":"2026-07-30T10:42:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:42:58.777778+08:00","text":"這個也是在國語方案計畫裡的一個項目。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:43:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:43:06.600000+08:00","text":"我有參加這個運動會，真的很遺憾啦！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:43:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:43:34.555556+08:00","text":"我真的要請原民會注意一下，族語經費就要真正用在族語推廣，編了那麼多錢，不只有這個，很多的活動，你們都用族語的經費，它只要掛個「族語」兩個字……梅莊副主委，這項業務不是你負責督導的嘛，對不對？","quality":0.707},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-07-30T10:43:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:43:36.500000+08:00","text":"有，有接觸啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-07-30T10:43:36.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:43:37.500000+08:00","text":"有督導……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:43:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:43:40.818182+08:00","text":"不是，我說那個公文陳核的時候。不是。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:43:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:43:42.333333+08:00","text":"不是嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:43:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:44:02.666667+08:00","text":"所以你無法了解，我們非常非常多的族語經費就投入在這些活動，沒有真正落實在家庭、學校及小朋友的身上。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:44:04.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:44:28+08:00","text":"請原民會及原文會，針對這兩個大活動有關族語經費的投入，能夠提供相關的數據資料給我，可以嗎？可以。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:44:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:44:40.600000+08:00","text":"好，除了族語的傳承，就教育文化處而言，很重要、很重要，重中之重的。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:44:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:14.714286+08:00","text":"你看，根據教育部近5年大專校院學生粗在學率的差距，從107學年度原住民跟非原住民的落差為31.9%，到了113年度逐年增高到38.3%，這麼大的落差，對我們原住民族而言，教育是重中之重。","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:26.333333+08:00","text":"所以針對這個部分，你們應該把這些經費投入到那邊去，對不對？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:36.714286+08:00","text":"如果你們沒有經費，要積極向教育部溝通及協調，這才是重中之重啊！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:45:58+08:00","text":"所以這個部分真的要好好地溝通及協調，無論是教育部或是原民會，怎麼樣能夠加強原住民族教育的提升，可以嗎？可以。好。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-07-30T10:45:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:00.857143+08:00","text":"我是不是可以請業務單位說明一下？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:02.600000+08:00","text":"要說明什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:04.500000+08:00","text":"就那個38%的差距，有一個……","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:08.500000+08:00","text":"有錯誤嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:10.800000+08:00","text":"這是教育部提供給我的資料。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:10.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:11.800000+08:00","text":"沒有錯誤。","quality":0},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:12.857143+08:00","text":"我們意思是，那個裡面有一些原因啦！","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:12.857143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:13.857143+08:00","text":"要跟委員說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:19+08:00","text":"有關原因的部分，你再用書面提供給我，好不好？是。","quality":0.45},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:19.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:32.500000+08:00","text":"最後是有關原基法，今天要討論第十八條，針對這100億的部分，主計單位、主計處有沒有來？","quality":0.514},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:36.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:46:46.666667+08:00","text":"原基法第十八條，有關原住民族綜合發展基金的法源，這裡面提到我們要修正100億，不是要去增加喔！","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:46:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:47:50+08:00","text":"我們是要政府返還，我們原住民族綜合發展基金曾在105年度的決算淨值是117億，這是我在省政府的時候，應省議員的要求，成立了這項基金，每年編數億，精省之後，我正好也在中央服務，每年編數億，到105年決算數淨值才有一百一十七億七千多萬，但是很遺憾的，原民會把它挪用作為原住民族綜合發展基金，總共挪用了五十三億多，將近挪用54億。","quality":0.752},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:47:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:48:28.714286+08:00","text":"立法院在106年的時候做了一個決議，副主委，106年是民進黨絕對多數的時候，他們也認同並通過了這項主決議，是要返還，因為是違法挪用，它不符合原住民族基本法第十八條，禁伐補償是不符合原基法第十八條的基金用途，所以要返還，但到現在都還沒有返還。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:48:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:48:46.333333+08:00","text":"所以我們現在沒有辦法增加預算，只好立法要回到當初，無論是省議員或是過去原住民立委的目標就是100億。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:48:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:49:07.444444+08:00","text":"如果有這筆100億，對於原住民族的相關住宅，在都會區就可以依住宅法第二條第四項設置原住民族專屬的社會住宅，這個法已經通過很多年了，你們都沒有執行，為什麼？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:49:08.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:49:36.333333+08:00","text":"因為沒有錢，如果有這筆基金的話，撥個2億興建或是價購，就像汐止的花東新村就是價購成為社會住宅，它還會有租金收入，就可以回到這個基金裡面，所以它是很重要、很重要。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:49:37.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:49:54.818182+08:00","text":"期盼我們立法院能夠通過原基法第十八條，我們在法律裡面明定要返還，因為我們不能審查預算時去增加預算，只好在法律裡面明定。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:49:57.571429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:50:18.750000+08:00","text":"因為時間的關係，昨天在經濟委員會審查山坡地保育利用條例第三十七條，我的修正條文是增加「部落」，在我們原住民族的土地，本來就有原住民的個人土地，也有部落的土地，但是原民會說反對、不同意，引用了土地法。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:50:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:50:36.333333+08:00","text":"事實上，我們現在增劃編為原住民保留地並沒有法律的依據，當時的省政府厲害啊！","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:50:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:51:04.777778+08:00","text":"現在還要繼續增劃編為原住民保留地，沒有土地法的依據、沒有法律的依據，現在我們要立法，你們竟然不同意，不是沒有法律依據，在原基法第二條之一就明定，部落就是公法人，它怎麼會不符合土地法、不符合相關法律呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:51:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:51:26.714286+08:00","text":"但是很遺憾，原基法第二條之一在104年12月16日公布明定，授權原民會要訂這個部落公法人設置辦法，到現在都沒有訂出來，那麼簡單的東西！","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:51:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:51:56.857143+08:00","text":"所以針對這個部分，當然今天主委不在，但是副主委很重要，我過去常務副主委的時候，到處去協調相關的部會，甚至去協調政務委員，包括現在原文會設置條例會通過，也是我去協調林萬億政務委員的，你有沒有去協調過哪個政務委員？","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:51:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:51:58+08:00","text":"沒有吧！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-07-30T10:51:59.315789+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:00.894737+08:00","text":"原則上，會跟我們督導的政務委員有一些政策上的協調。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:08.666667+08:00","text":"要去拜託、要去溝通、要去說服，只有靠這個啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:09.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:30.333333+08:00","text":"要去拜託、去說服，包括當初地方制度法的修法，要變成5都的時候，也是我去協調當時的林中森次長才完成的，所以這個部分要去加油，副主委很重要，常務副主委更重要，好不好？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:32.714286+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員的鼓勵，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-07-30T10:52:33.214286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-07-30T10:52:36.357143+08:00","text":"下一位請李柏毅召委質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":720,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時40分）主席、各位委員。有請梅莊副主委。"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：副主委好。今天在你們的專案報告裡有關「海陸─南島語族航海計畫」，提到臺灣蘭嶼雅美族（達悟族）、菲律賓巴丹群島間之歷史海上交流，這非常好，我也非常支持。但是我的重點在哪裡呢？這裡面有沒有用到教文處或是原文會族語這方面的經費？"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：好，我請業務單位跟委員說明。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，請處長。"],["陳處長坤昇：謝謝。有關這次「海陸─南島語族航海計畫」是用我們過去國語方案的經費來給予支持。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：有沒有族語的經費？"],["陳處長坤昇：有，在國語方案。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以針對這個部分，我是非常不認同，我們語言的經費就是要讓我們族語能夠傳承，讓我們的學生、小朋友能夠學習。接下來，有關世界原住民族傳統運動會，這有沒有用到原住民族語言的經費？"],["陳處長坤昇：這個也是在國語方案計畫裡的一個項目。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我有參加這個運動會，真的很遺憾啦！我真的要請原民會注意一下，族語經費就要真正用在族語推廣，編了那麼多錢，不只有這個，很多的活動，你們都用族語的經費，它只要掛個「族語」兩個字……梅莊副主委，這項業務不是你負責督導的嘛，對不對？"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：有，有接觸啦！有督導……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是，我說那個公文陳核的時候。"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：不是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：不是嘛！所以你無法了解，我們非常非常多的族語經費就投入在這些活動，沒有真正落實在家庭、學校及小朋友的身上。請原民會及原文會，針對這兩個大活動有關族語經費的投入，能夠提供相關的數據資料給我，可以嗎？"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：可以。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，除了族語的傳承，就教育文化處而言，很重要、很重要，重中之重的。你看，根據教育部近5年大專校院學生粗在學率的差距，從107學年度原住民跟非原住民的落差為31.9%，到了113年度逐年增高到38.3%，這麼大的落差，對我們原住民族而言，教育是重中之重。所以針對這個部分，你們應該把這些經費投入到那邊去，對不對？如果你們沒有經費，要積極向教育部溝通及協調，這才是重中之重啊！所以這個部分真的要好好地溝通及協調，無論是教育部或是原民會，怎麼樣能夠加強原住民族教育的提升，可以嗎？"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：可以。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好。"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：我是不是可以請業務單位說明一下？"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：要說明什麼？"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：就那個38%的差距，有一個……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：有錯誤嗎？這是教育部提供給我的資料。"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：沒有錯誤。我們意思是，那個裡面有一些原因啦！要跟委員說明。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：有關原因的部分，你再用書面提供給我，好不好？"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：最後是有關原基法，今天要討論第十八條，針對這100億的部分，主計單位、主計處有沒有來？","原基法第十八條，有關原住民族綜合發展基金的法源，這裡面提到我們要修正100億，不是要去增加喔！我們是要政府返還，我們原住民族綜合發展基金曾在105年度的決算淨值是117億，這是我在省政府的時候，應省議員的要求，成立了這項基金，每年編數億，精省之後，我正好也在中央服務，每年編數億，到105年決算數淨值才有一百一十七億七千多萬，但是很遺憾的，原民會把它挪用作為原住民族綜合發展基金，總共挪用了五十三億多，將近挪用54億。立法院在106年的時候做了一個決議，副主委，106年是民進黨絕對多數的時候，他們也認同並通過了這項主決議，是要返還，因為是違法挪用，它不符合原住民族基本法第十八條，禁伐補償是不符合原基法第十八條的基金用途，所以要返還，但到現在都還沒有返還。所以我們現在沒有辦法增加預算，只好立法要回到當初，無論是省議員或是過去原住民立委的目標就是100億。如果有這筆100億，對於原住民族的相關住宅，在都會區就可以依住宅法第二條第四項設置原住民族專屬的社會住宅，這個法已經通過很多年了，你們都沒有執行，為什麼？因為沒有錢，如果有這筆基金的話，撥個2億興建或是價購，就像汐止的花東新村就是價購成為社會住宅，它還會有租金收入，就可以回到這個基金裡面，所以它是很重要、很重要。期盼我們立法院能夠通過原基法第十八條，我們在法律裡面明定要返還，因為我們不能審查預算時去增加預算，只好在法律裡面明定。","因為時間的關係，昨天在經濟委員會審查山坡地保育利用條例第三十七條，我的修正條文是增加「部落」，在我們原住民族的土地，本來就有原住民的個人土地，也有部落的土地，但是原民會說反對、不同意，引用了土地法。事實上，我們現在增劃編為原住民保留地並沒有法律的依據，當時的省政府厲害啊！現在還要繼續增劃編為原住民保留地，沒有土地法的依據、沒有法律的依據，現在我們要立法，你們竟然不同意，不是沒有法律依據，在原基法第二條之一就明定，部落就是公法人，它怎麼會不符合土地法、不符合相關法律呢？但是很遺憾，原基法第二條之一在104年12月16日公布明定，授權原民會要訂這個部落公法人設置辦法，到現在都沒有訂出來，那麼簡單的東西！","所以針對這個部分，當然今天主委不在，但是副主委很重要，我過去常務副主委的時候，到處去協調相關的部會，甚至去協調政務委員，包括現在原文會設置條例會通過，也是我去協調林萬億政務委員的，你有沒有去協調過哪個政務委員？沒有吧！"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：原則上，會跟我們督導的政務委員有一些政策上的協調。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：要去拜託、要去溝通、要去說服，只有靠這個啦！要去拜託、去說服，包括當初地方制度法的修法，要變成5都的時候，也是我去協調當時的林中森次長才完成的，所以這個部分要去加油，副主委很重要，常務副主委更重要，好不好？"],["杜副主任委員張梅莊：好，謝謝委員的鼓勵，謝謝。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請李柏毅召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-15-21","speakers":["廖先翔","蘇巧慧","許忠信","王美惠","黃捷","張宏陸","高金素梅","林宜瑾","吳琪銘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","李柏毅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鍾佳濱","盧縣一","林倩綺","王鴻薇","張智倫","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-07-30"],"gazette_id":"1156802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1156802_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、 邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、文化部、國家通訊傳播委員會、財團法人原住民族文化事\n業基金會就「『海路－南島語族航海計畫』、『國際原住民族傳統競技文化交流族語節目（世界\n原住民族傳統運動會）』、『原住民族廣播電臺訊源傳輸及監控系統設備建置與相關基地台設\n置』等重大計畫執行進度、經費運用及成果認定檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、「原住民\n身分法」等11案：(一)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「原住民身分法第二條條文修\n正草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等18人擬具「原住民身分法部分條\n文修正草案」案、(三)繼續審查委員郭國文等16人擬具「原住民身分法修正草案」案、(四)繼續\n審查委員林宜瑾等22人擬具「原住民身分法第十一條條文修正草案」案、(五)繼續審查委員高金\n素梅等 17 人擬具「原住民身分法刪除第十一條條文草案」案、 ( 六 ) 繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra\nKacaw 等20人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文修正草案」案、(七)審查委員黃仁等19人擬具「原\n住民身分法第二條條文修正草案」案、(八)審查委員黃仁等18人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文\n修正草案」案、(九)審查委員盧縣一等17人擬具「原住民身分法第四條條文修正草案」案、(十)\n審查委員陳瑩等 16 人擬具「原住民身分法第五條條文修正草案」案、 ( 十一 ) 審查委員伍麗華\nSaidhai Tahovecahe 等18人擬具「原住民身分法第七條條文修正草案」案；三、「原住民族基\n本法」等15案：(一)繼續審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「原住民族基本法增\n訂第二條之二條文草案」案、(二)繼續審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等17人擬具「原住\n民族基本法第二十一條條文修正草案」案、(三)繼續審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「原住民族基\n本法部分條文修正草案」案、(四)繼續審查委員黃仁等30人擬具「原住民族基本法第十九條條文\n修正草案」案、( 五) 繼續審查委員黃仁等26 人擬具「原住民族基本法第十五條條文修正草案」\n案、(六)繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第六條之一條文草\n案」案、( 七) 繼續審查委員黃仁等20 人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十八條之一條文草案」\n案、(八)繼續審查委員黃仁等22人擬具「原住民族基本法第十條條文修正草案」案、(九)繼續審\n查委員黃仁等21人擬具「原住民族基本法第六條條文修正草案」案、(十)繼續審查委員高金素梅\n等 20 人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案、 ( 十一 ) 繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra\nKacaw 等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案、(十二)繼續審查委員盧縣一等\n18 人 擬 具 「 原 住 民 族 基 本 法 部 分 條 文 修 正 草 案 」 案 、 ( 十 三 ) 審 查 委 員 伍 麗 華 Saidhai\nTahovecahe 等17人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案、(十四)審查委員林宜瑾等18\n人 擬 具 「 原 住 民 族 基 本 法 第 二 條 條 文 修 正 草 案 」 案 、 ( 十 五 ) 審 查 委 員 伍 麗 華 Saidhai\nTahovecahe 等21人擬具「原住民族基本法第二十一條、第二十一條之一及第二十一條之二條文\n修正草案」案（逐條審查）","agenda_id":"1156802_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}