{"error":false,"id":["170788"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170788,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170788","日期":"2026-07-30","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-30T11:31:13+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-30T12:03:12+08:00","影片長度":"00:31:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e0eb45d9b4eab0705d0c0a388eabc6a2e1b2630d250832200119fc413690d8263582eaed42b6d64d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:31:13 - 12:03:12","會議時間":"2026-07-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員陳冠廷等18人擬具「安樂死法草案」案。\n二、審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「尊嚴善終法草案」案。\n三、邀請衛生福利部部長及教育部次長就「近期幼兒園及托育兒虐頻傳：責任通報、兒少保護及跨部會合作機制檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告及法律案綜合詢答，法律案僅詢答】\n【7月29日及30日，二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.01721875,"end":10.392218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.691593750000003,"end":12.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.977843750000002,"end":16.872218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.14221875,"end":17.715968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.30659375,"end":27.570968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.65534375,"end":60.13971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.375968750000006,"end":61.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.080343750000004,"end":98.34471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.27284375,"end":158.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.82471875000002,"end":188.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.48659375000003,"end":195.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":196.75971875000002,"end":205.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.82159375,"end":234.30659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.61034375000003,"end":235.03221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.53846875000002,"end":255.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.78846875000002,"end":276.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.74284375,"end":284.25659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.20159375000003,"end":300.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.16534375000003,"end":331.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.96221875000003,"end":333.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.64971875000003,"end":334.71284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":335.57346875,"end":336.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.88971875000004,"end":349.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.23784375,"end":351.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":353.15721875,"end":359.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.26159375000003,"end":361.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":362.01659375,"end":366.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":366.50534375,"end":380.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.01784375,"end":384.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.23659375,"end":401.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":401.82471875000005,"end":415.64534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":415.88159375000004,"end":428.11596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":428.58846875,"end":453.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.79534375000003,"end":455.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":457.10721875,"end":466.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.92846875000004,"end":473.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":473.81346875,"end":476.44596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":477.12096875000003,"end":490.19909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.63784375000006,"end":496.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.01659375,"end":497.52284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":497.86034375,"end":509.20034375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.90909375,"end":517.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.7222187500001,"end":518.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":518.63346875,"end":538.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.76534375,"end":539.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.4653437500001,"end":545.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":545.9709687500001,"end":547.43909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":548.1140937499999,"end":552.92346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.1215937500001,"end":557.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":557.7834687500001,"end":558.8803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":559.52159375,"end":567.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":567.80721875,"end":572.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":572.63346875,"end":579.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":580.04159375,"end":587.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":588.1922187499999,"end":609.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":607.10909375,"end":609.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":612.00284375,"end":614.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.13346875,"end":614.0447187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.22596875,"end":635.0034687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":635.17221875,"end":638.7834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":639.2222187500001,"end":644.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":644.47034375,"end":645.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":646.02284375,"end":651.4228437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":652.24971875,"end":660.11346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":660.3328437499999,"end":667.80846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":668.1459687500001,"end":685.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":686.3034687500001,"end":689.5772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":690.1003437500001,"end":692.0747187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":693.3403437500001,"end":701.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":702.3178437500001,"end":721.7240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":721.80846875,"end":725.7065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.5672187499999,"end":736.8103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":729.99284375,"end":732.8784687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":734.05971875,"end":736.4053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":737.2322187500001,"end":746.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":737.5022187500001,"end":737.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":746.0915937500001,"end":746.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.12534375,"end":746.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":746.3615937500001,"end":747.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":746.42909375,"end":746.7834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":747.0703437500001,"end":755.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":755.59221875,"end":757.41471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":758.24159375,"end":767.5734687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":768.2990937500001,"end":773.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":774.6440937500001,"end":776.4497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":776.8715937500001,"end":778.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":779.87534375,"end":786.2709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":786.5747187500001,"end":797.1384687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":797.3915937500001,"end":803.7534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":803.97284375,"end":810.3178437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":811.22909375,"end":815.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":816.1228437500001,"end":816.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":817.1184687500001,"end":820.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":821.4890937500002,"end":847.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":847.66221875,"end":851.9653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":852.47159375,"end":863.9297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":864.40221875,"end":866.0390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":866.6297187500002,"end":868.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":868.4522187500002,"end":869.8190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":870.5447187500001,"end":884.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":884.55096875,"end":902.8772187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":903.19784375,"end":907.1128437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":907.9228437500001,"end":920.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":921.62534375,"end":925.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":925.6415937500001,"end":928.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":929.38784375,"end":929.8603437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":930.5859687500001,"end":932.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":934.3997187500001,"end":934.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":935.6147187500001,"end":941.04846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":941.48721875,"end":947.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":945.41909375,"end":952.9790937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":953.6540937500001,"end":954.86909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":957.6028437500001,"end":963.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":963.5090937500001,"end":968.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":967.8459687500001,"end":974.4440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":969.4322187500002,"end":970.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":970.8328437500002,"end":971.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":974.27534375,"end":978.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":976.5534687500001,"end":980.01284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":979.1184687500001,"end":982.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":980.99159375,"end":984.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":985.1765937500002,"end":986.22284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":986.91471875,"end":989.8172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":991.09971875,"end":992.4834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":993.5634687500001,"end":1021.20471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1021.64346875,"end":1023.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1024.17471875,"end":1025.2547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1025.60909375,"end":1026.43596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1026.9590937500002,"end":1065.55221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1066.0753437500002,"end":1116.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1116.48096875,"end":1117.71284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1118.84346875,"end":1126.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1126.7578437500001,"end":1129.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1130.77409375,"end":1131.6009687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1132.3097187500002,"end":1133.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1133.76096875,"end":1137.0347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1137.4903437500002,"end":1149.3028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1149.9609687500001,"end":1157.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1157.7403437500002,"end":1165.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1165.9078437500002,"end":1176.50534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1176.5897187500002,"end":1182.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1183.4578437500002,"end":1186.7147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1187.4065937500002,"end":1191.5072187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1191.70971875,"end":1193.0259687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1193.5997187500002,"end":1197.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1198.30784375,"end":1199.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1199.9447187500002,"end":1204.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1205.0240937500002,"end":1206.9647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1206.9647187500002,"end":1214.2547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1214.64284375,"end":1217.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1217.86596875,"end":1222.0003437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1222.18596875,"end":1222.91159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1223.04659375,"end":1223.7890937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1224.9703437500002,"end":1237.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1237.10346875,"end":1244.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1244.12346875,"end":1244.7815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1244.7815937500002,"end":1246.6378437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1246.80659375,"end":1265.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1265.80784375,"end":1279.56096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1280.3878437500002,"end":1283.81346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1283.50971875,"end":1295.0184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1295.1365937500002,"end":1300.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1300.0303437500002,"end":1331.5865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1333.03784375,"end":1340.4122187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1340.9522187500002,"end":1343.41596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1344.2259687500002,"end":1346.6053437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1347.09471875,"end":1348.0059687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1348.5797187500002,"end":1351.31346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1351.6509687500002,"end":1353.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1353.4565937500001,"end":1354.5028437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1355.3128437500002,"end":1359.4134687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1359.6834687500002,"end":1361.6072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1361.7928437500002,"end":1365.4547187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1365.9947187500002,"end":1368.5765937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1369.6228437500001,"end":1372.66034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1373.2847187500001,"end":1374.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1374.6853437500001,"end":1383.1734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1384.05096875,"end":1387.7803437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1388.2359687500002,"end":1394.6990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1395.8465937500002,"end":1403.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1403.2378437500001,"end":1403.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1403.8622187500002,"end":1410.7303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1411.2872187500002,"end":1419.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1419.9947187500002,"end":1425.9515937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1426.4578437500002,"end":1453.81221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1454.3015937500002,"end":1457.6934687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1458.6722187500002,"end":1459.1953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1459.5159687500002,"end":1472.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1472.83034375,"end":1481.8584687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1482.2803437500002,"end":1486.43159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1487.0390937500001,"end":1526.1722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1526.3409687500002,"end":1582.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1582.6865937500002,"end":1588.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1589.25096875,"end":1590.6853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1591.4447187500002,"end":1621.2290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1621.44846875,"end":1627.6922187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1621.60034375,"end":1622.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1628.5865937500002,"end":1630.0884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1630.6959687500002,"end":1632.5184687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1633.2947187500001,"end":1635.7753437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1637.1590937500002,"end":1652.1778437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1653.0553437500002,"end":1663.7203437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1663.8384687500002,"end":1670.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1671.5672187500002,"end":1680.8484687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1681.1015937500001,"end":1696.7278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1696.9472187500003,"end":1699.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1699.3097187500002,"end":1701.3853437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1702.04346875,"end":1703.7815937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1704.15284375,"end":1722.4453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1722.6309687500002,"end":1725.2634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1725.7190937500002,"end":1726.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1726.7315937500002,"end":1728.9928437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1730.0390937500001,"end":1732.6209687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1734.52784375,"end":1740.0797187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1740.6197187500002,"end":1771.7540937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1772.1084687500002,"end":1787.4140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1787.6334687500002,"end":1795.4972187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1796.0034687500001,"end":1810.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1811.3597187500002,"end":1812.7603437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1813.4690937500002,"end":1820.0840937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1821.3328437500002,"end":1823.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1824.3534687500003,"end":1839.4059687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1840.0978437500003,"end":1842.24096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1843.0340937500002,"end":1855.47096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1855.7578437500001,"end":1868.0934687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1868.4647187500002,"end":1883.0953437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1883.8209687500002,"end":1885.3228437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1886.0653437500002,"end":1886.0990937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1886.0990937500003,"end":1886.1834687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1886.1834687500002,"end":1886.3015937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1886.3015937500002,"end":1886.3522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1886.3522187500002,"end":1886.4703437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1886.4703437500002,"end":1886.5547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1886.5547187500001,"end":1886.68971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1886.68971875,"end":1886.7234687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1886.7234687500002,"end":1888.0397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1886.7403437500002,"end":1888.8665937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1888.6640937500001,"end":1890.90846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1889.7103437500002,"end":1890.9253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1890.9253437500001,"end":1891.1615937500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1891.1615937500003,"end":1891.2122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1891.2122187500001,"end":1891.2290937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1891.2628437500002,"end":1896.4772187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1896.6459687500003,"end":1904.9147187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1906.0453437500003,"end":1906.8384687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1907.0240937500002,"end":1907.6484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1908.5090937500001,"end":1911.5972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1912.1878437500002,"end":1914.66846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1915.6134687500003,"end":1917.4528437500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1918.1278437500002,"end":1919.1403437500003}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":10.5,"text":"好 謝謝主席 是不是請我們的石部長"},{"start":10.5,"end":13,"text":"有請石部長"},{"start":13,"end":17,"text":"好 委員好"},{"start":17,"end":25,"text":"部長 大概求好死 善終都是成為年長者口中所謂的福報"},{"start":25,"end":31,"text":"我們經常在走基層 那也聽到很多的心聲"},{"start":31,"end":35,"text":"這是社會上切切實實很多人的想法"},{"start":35,"end":40,"text":"很多人支持安樂死 但也不是說我們不珍惜生命"},{"start":40,"end":45,"text":"而是我們害怕 是不是癌症末期無法控制的疼痛"},{"start":45,"end":49,"text":"是不是失智以後的整個帶給家人的負擔"},{"start":50,"end":55,"text":"或者是中風以後長期臥床 完全失能 完全的依賴他人"},{"start":55,"end":60,"text":"成為家庭裡面的照顧和經濟上的重擔"},{"start":60,"end":63,"text":"我覺得的確就是這樣子"},{"start":63,"end":69,"text":"你說大家都覺得說不尊重生命 不是 我們真的不是那樣子"},{"start":69,"end":74,"text":"那這一種恐懼非常的強大 包括我自己"},{"start":74,"end":78,"text":"包括我自己 我都支持說我們要有安樂死"},{"start":78,"end":85,"text":"因為我們看了很多 身邊的人真的也很多這樣的案例"},{"start":85,"end":90,"text":"所以並不是憑空去想像那種恐懼 而是真真實實"},{"start":90,"end":95,"text":"每個人看得到 然後接觸得到 甚至都發生過了"},{"start":95,"end":104,"text":"所以在這種狀況裡面 加拿大有一項針對醫療協助死亡的申請者的研究"},{"start":104,"end":108,"text":"因為這個社會的對話一定要開啟"},{"start":108,"end":114,"text":"而台灣這個社會的對話 我們很遺憾 官方的正式的從來沒有開啟過"},{"start":114,"end":116,"text":"而立法院今天是第一次"},{"start":116,"end":120,"text":"而立法院的第一次就直接進入了詢答"},{"start":120,"end":124,"text":"而沒有公聽 沒有在傾聽民間的聲音"},{"start":124,"end":130,"text":"可是在加拿大已經有一項研究發現"},{"start":130,"end":135,"text":"他們實際上接受醫療協助死亡者提出的理由"},{"start":135,"end":141,"text":"不只是疾病症狀 有五成提到他失去自主"},{"start":141,"end":146,"text":"然後近五成提到他失去從事喜愛活動的能力"},{"start":146,"end":150,"text":"也有人是出於對未來痛苦的恐懼"},{"start":150,"end":157,"text":"相關的訪談和研究也發現 患者所認為的無法接受的生活品質"},{"start":157,"end":163,"text":"這個概念通常都會跟失去獨立行動和溝通能力"},{"start":163,"end":168,"text":"以及失去的人生目的和有意義的活動有關"},{"start":168,"end":171,"text":"所以在這裡大家都覺得說生命是無價"},{"start":171,"end":174,"text":"可是生命無價這句話太容易了"},{"start":174,"end":178,"text":"因為你要求一個病人繼續承受一切"},{"start":178,"end":183,"text":"不能夠因為害怕老去 不能夠害怕失能 不能夠害怕長期照顧"},{"start":183,"end":186,"text":"就急著用安樂死回應這一些恐懼"},{"start":186,"end":190,"text":"我覺得你們就是用這種道德來回應支持的人"},{"start":190,"end":195,"text":"可是的確這個是很紮紮實實的存在"},{"start":196,"end":203,"text":"所以我們在這裡我們也知道說因為死亡是生命一旦終止"},{"start":203,"end":208,"text":"都沒有辦法補救 你誤判了也沒有辦法補救"},{"start":208,"end":212,"text":"所以我們今天要談的不是說大家你支持或是你反對"},{"start":212,"end":217,"text":"而是我們希望這個對話今天第一次的對話我們要談更多"},{"start":217,"end":220,"text":"而台灣的醫療 台灣的長照制度"},{"start":220,"end":225,"text":"台灣的社會支持的條件 法律的制度"},{"start":225,"end":231,"text":"是不是已經準備好了要承擔這一項無法挽回的決定"},{"start":231,"end":234,"text":"我們這個社會準備好了沒"},{"start":234,"end":237,"text":"安樂死要開放到哪個程度"},{"start":237,"end":240,"text":"我們要先劃出適用的範圍"},{"start":240,"end":244,"text":"大家都知道實施安樂死或醫治死亡"},{"start":244,"end":248,"text":"醫療協助死亡的國家適用的範圍都不相同"},{"start":248,"end":251,"text":"大概分成兩種模式"},{"start":251,"end":258,"text":"第一種就是很侷限說在死亡已經接近末期的病人"},{"start":258,"end":262,"text":"大家都其實在道德上壓力也比較少"},{"start":262,"end":264,"text":"爭端爭議也比較少"},{"start":265,"end":271,"text":"但另一種是不要求病人即將末期即將死亡"},{"start":271,"end":274,"text":"只要你疾病無法治癒痛苦無法忍受"},{"start":274,"end":277,"text":"經過法定審查後就直接適用"},{"start":277,"end":284,"text":"美國的阿勒岡跟紐西蘭大概採取的是相對限縮的模式"},{"start":284,"end":291,"text":"只要你是可能在六個月內醫生判定六個月內死亡的末期病患"},{"start":291,"end":294,"text":"你申請執行時具備決定能力"},{"start":294,"end":298,"text":"自行服藥或醫治死亡"},{"start":298,"end":303,"text":"可以看得到病人死亡都接近了"},{"start":303,"end":304,"text":"就比較限縮的"},{"start":304,"end":311,"text":"可是大家社會上普遍爭議的不是在這一種相對限縮的"},{"start":311,"end":315,"text":"很大的爭議是像加拿大和荷蘭"},{"start":315,"end":318,"text":"他們的適用範圍比較寬"},{"start":318,"end":321,"text":"然後也不要求要接近死亡"},{"start":321,"end":324,"text":"加拿大本來是侷限在接近死亡"},{"start":324,"end":326,"text":"但他們後來放寬了"},{"start":326,"end":331,"text":"他們2021年起不再要求比較侷限"},{"start":331,"end":335,"text":"而是比較放寬的"},{"start":335,"end":340,"text":"針對自然死亡並不是合理可預見的"},{"start":340,"end":343,"text":"即便你沒有合理的可預見"},{"start":343,"end":348,"text":"但是你還是經過了第二軌的審查程序的話"},{"start":348,"end":350,"text":"他還是會放寬"},{"start":350,"end":355,"text":"結果加拿大2024那一年"},{"start":355,"end":360,"text":"那一年一共有16499人"},{"start":360,"end":362,"text":"好多喔"},{"start":362,"end":366,"text":"他們去申請接受醫療協助一度死亡"},{"start":366,"end":370,"text":"但是16499人裡面"},{"start":370,"end":374,"text":"進入到第二軌大部分都是末期"},{"start":374,"end":376,"text":"但不是末期"},{"start":376,"end":378,"text":"但是也是同意他的"},{"start":378,"end":381,"text":"去申請的有732人"},{"start":381,"end":382,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":382,"end":386,"text":"抱歉同意的是732人"},{"start":386,"end":391,"text":"但是申請的案件有1233個件數申請"},{"start":391,"end":395,"text":"其中有321件被認定不符合資格"},{"start":395,"end":398,"text":"大概26%不符合資格"},{"start":398,"end":401,"text":"然後不被許可"},{"start":401,"end":403,"text":"在這種狀況裡面"},{"start":403,"end":405,"text":"這種案件都要審查很久很久"},{"start":405,"end":408,"text":"這顯示因為死亡不是開玩笑"},{"start":408,"end":410,"text":"你一旦判定了"},{"start":410,"end":414,"text":"他其實是不可逆轉的"},{"start":414,"end":416,"text":"所以是很嚴肅的"},{"start":416,"end":417,"text":"所以在這裡都會"},{"start":417,"end":419,"text":"你是不是死亡將近啊"},{"start":419,"end":422,"text":"你這個疾病是不是難以治癒啊"},{"start":422,"end":424,"text":"你這個衰退是不是不可逆啊"},{"start":424,"end":427,"text":"你的痛苦是不是有其他緩解的辦法等等"},{"start":427,"end":430,"text":"都要成為判斷的依據"},{"start":430,"end":434,"text":"那荷蘭也不是以這個末期或6個月死亡"},{"start":434,"end":435,"text":"為必要要件"},{"start":435,"end":437,"text":"只要病人的痛苦"},{"start":437,"end":439,"text":"符合具有醫療上的原因"},{"start":439,"end":443,"text":"而且已經無法忍受且沒有改善的希望"},{"start":443,"end":446,"text":"並符合自願而審慎的請求"},{"start":446,"end":448,"text":"充分的告知"},{"start":448,"end":451,"text":"沒有合理替代方法及獨立醫師評估等條件"},{"start":451,"end":453,"text":"就可以適用了"},{"start":453,"end":455,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":455,"end":457,"text":"在荷蘭裡面"},{"start":457,"end":459,"text":"如果你是說我年事已高"},{"start":459,"end":462,"text":"我認為人生已經完整了"},{"start":462,"end":465,"text":"那我對繼續生活失去期待"},{"start":465,"end":470,"text":"這個是不足以構成他們許可安樂死的法定事由"},{"start":470,"end":472,"text":"那這兩種模式喔"},{"start":472,"end":477,"text":"我們今天兩個提案都類似"},{"start":477,"end":480,"text":"一個是局限在末期接近死亡"},{"start":480,"end":482,"text":"一個是不已接近死亡"},{"start":482,"end":484,"text":"不已接近死亡"},{"start":484,"end":486,"text":"然後只要痛苦難耐"},{"start":486,"end":488,"text":"大概就開放了這樣子"},{"start":488,"end":490,"text":"所以這兩個提案"},{"start":490,"end":494,"text":"和這世界上存在的這兩種模式"},{"start":494,"end":496,"text":"大概這兩個提案就可以代表"},{"start":496,"end":500,"text":"那這兩個提案或這兩種模式的差別"},{"start":500,"end":502,"text":"不是只有適用範圍不同"},{"start":502,"end":506,"text":"而是國家允許醫療介入死亡的理由不同"},{"start":506,"end":508,"text":"所以這個東西"},{"start":508,"end":511,"text":"我們要講說"},{"start":511,"end":513,"text":"回到這兩份草案裡面"},{"start":513,"end":517,"text":"陳冠廷的版本就是要求病人承受"},{"start":517,"end":521,"text":"難以忍受無法緩解的身體痛苦"},{"start":521,"end":523,"text":"然後末期才可以"},{"start":523,"end":525,"text":"那民眾黨的版本是"},{"start":525,"end":527,"text":"不用末期"},{"start":527,"end":529,"text":"只要疾病無法治癒痛苦"},{"start":529,"end":530,"text":"難以忍受"},{"start":530,"end":534,"text":"而且現在的醫療水準沒有其他合適的解決方法"},{"start":534,"end":536,"text":"就可以提出申請"},{"start":536,"end":538,"text":"那所以在這裡"},{"start":538,"end":540,"text":"我們真的是"},{"start":540,"end":544,"text":"跟民間的想像有點落差"},{"start":544,"end":546,"text":"因為兩者都是"},{"start":546,"end":548,"text":"一個是要接近死亡"},{"start":548,"end":549,"text":"即便是安樂死"},{"start":549,"end":551,"text":"大家民間所想要的"},{"start":551,"end":553,"text":"很多人想要的安樂死"},{"start":553,"end":557,"text":"跟這兩個版本所提的安樂死"},{"start":557,"end":559,"text":"落差很大"},{"start":559,"end":562,"text":"因為即便是開放"},{"start":562,"end":565,"text":"更開放的這個民眾黨的版本"},{"start":565,"end":567,"text":"也是要求說"},{"start":567,"end":569,"text":"痛苦難以忍受"},{"start":569,"end":572,"text":"疾病無法治癒"},{"start":572,"end":574,"text":"那所以我就是不懂就是說"},{"start":574,"end":577,"text":"因為一般人就想說那我中風了"},{"start":577,"end":579,"text":"全部失能了癱瘓了"},{"start":579,"end":583,"text":"那符不符合民眾黨版本的疾病無法治癒"},{"start":583,"end":585,"text":"痛苦難以忍受"},{"start":585,"end":587,"text":"你覺得呢部長"},{"start":587,"end":589,"text":"這個跟委員說明"},{"start":589,"end":593,"text":"您的這些見解是非常深入的"},{"start":593,"end":595,"text":"這也就是為什麼我主張"},{"start":595,"end":598,"text":"他不應該用公投的方式來解決"},{"start":598,"end":600,"text":"因為這個是需要很多"},{"start":600,"end":603,"text":"面向的廣泛的討論跟對話"},{"start":603,"end":604,"text":"所以我們會來啟動"},{"start":604,"end":605,"text":"我剛剛講的說"},{"start":605,"end":607,"text":"一年我們來做這個"},{"start":607,"end":608,"text":"我現在看你"},{"start":608,"end":610,"text":"我發現你好像瘦很多"},{"start":612,"end":613,"text":"抱歉這是題外話"},{"start":613,"end":615,"text":"但是我的意思是說"},{"start":615,"end":617,"text":"公投你叫人家支持安樂死"},{"start":617,"end":619,"text":"反對安樂死"},{"start":619,"end":621,"text":"這個是粗暴的"},{"start":621,"end":622,"text":"這是粗暴的"},{"start":622,"end":623,"text":"但我們在這裡就是"},{"start":623,"end":625,"text":"因為在這裡是立法院"},{"start":625,"end":629,"text":"就整個國家對於安樂死這個議題"},{"start":629,"end":632,"text":"第一次很正式的對話"},{"start":632,"end":635,"text":"所以在這裡我們必須要"},{"start":635,"end":638,"text":"細緻一點的來討論"},{"start":638,"end":642,"text":"因為人民投我支持安樂死"},{"start":642,"end":644,"text":"可是他想像的安樂死"},{"start":644,"end":649,"text":"跟大家立法院在討論的安樂死"},{"start":649,"end":651,"text":"落差可能很大"},{"start":651,"end":653,"text":"然後都"},{"start":653,"end":655,"text":"但不管哪一種嚴謹的"},{"start":655,"end":656,"text":"限縮的"},{"start":656,"end":658,"text":"或是比較寬鬆的"},{"start":658,"end":660,"text":"都還必須要有一個叫做"},{"start":660,"end":662,"text":"痛苦難耐"},{"start":662,"end":664,"text":"痛苦難耐指涉的是什麼"},{"start":664,"end":666,"text":"痛苦到難以忍受"},{"start":666,"end":668,"text":"指涉的是什麼"},{"start":668,"end":669,"text":"所以我們來問你"},{"start":669,"end":671,"text":"我今天在問你就是說"},{"start":671,"end":672,"text":"你雖然在講公投"},{"start":672,"end":674,"text":"但答非所問"},{"start":674,"end":675,"text":"我問你的是"},{"start":675,"end":677,"text":"你支持哪一種模式"},{"start":677,"end":681,"text":"或者是你對痛苦到難以忍受"},{"start":681,"end":684,"text":"你認為在醫療上的"},{"start":684,"end":686,"text":"或是在法律上的"},{"start":686,"end":690,"text":"或者是在社會心理層次上的"},{"start":690,"end":693,"text":"他指涉的是什麼東西"},{"start":693,"end":694,"text":"這個跟委員說"},{"start":694,"end":696,"text":"我們在啟動這個安樂死的時候"},{"start":696,"end":698,"text":"你剛剛有"},{"start":698,"end":700,"text":"我相信你review了很多的報導"},{"start":700,"end":702,"text":"跟報告"},{"start":702,"end":704,"text":"那中間有一個很重要的關鍵"},{"start":704,"end":706,"text":"叫做滑坡效應"},{"start":706,"end":709,"text":"就是一旦你啟動了這個安樂死之後"},{"start":709,"end":712,"text":"就好像那個潘朵拉的盒子打開"},{"start":712,"end":714,"text":"你要很小心"},{"start":714,"end":717,"text":"因為它後面會有滑坡效應"},{"start":717,"end":719,"text":"那麼從現在開始討論"},{"start":719,"end":721,"text":"是從這個生命末期"},{"start":721,"end":723,"text":"到痛苦難耐"},{"start":723,"end":725,"text":"精神疾病要不要"},{"start":725,"end":728,"text":"精神的鑑定要不要"},{"start":728,"end":731,"text":"這些都是會一連串"},{"start":731,"end":732,"text":"會滾動的"},{"start":732,"end":734,"text":"所以像加拿大也是"},{"start":734,"end":736,"text":"你講這個就是在講加拿大"},{"start":736,"end":737,"text":"對"},{"start":737,"end":739,"text":"加拿大又從嚴謹的末期"},{"start":739,"end":741,"text":"剩下六個月"},{"start":741,"end":744,"text":"然後你說它開放到更寬鬆"},{"start":744,"end":746,"text":"然後它現在又往回退了"},{"start":746,"end":747,"text":"好"},{"start":747,"end":749,"text":"那你稱這個叫做滑坡效應"},{"start":749,"end":753,"text":"如果從我作為一個民意代表的角度來看"},{"start":753,"end":754,"text":"搞不好我的理解是"},{"start":754,"end":758,"text":"這是民意所向"},{"start":758,"end":760,"text":"人民想要呢"},{"start":760,"end":762,"text":"那也是人民想要"},{"start":762,"end":765,"text":"但民意會改變的"},{"start":765,"end":767,"text":"我知道人民的民意會改變"},{"start":767,"end":770,"text":"但是就是說你一下子說"},{"start":770,"end":771,"text":"我們要放寬"},{"start":771,"end":775,"text":"那生命就這樣子就寬鬆的"},{"start":775,"end":776,"text":"就可以選擇死亡了"},{"start":776,"end":778,"text":"但一下子又限縮"},{"start":778,"end":782,"text":"其實也是整體社會上一個"},{"start":782,"end":785,"text":"這種光是這樣的放寬限縮"},{"start":785,"end":788,"text":"就是一個爭議了"},{"start":788,"end":790,"text":"我們知道這是一個高度的爭議"},{"start":790,"end":791,"text":"但是就是說"},{"start":791,"end":793,"text":"如果我們台灣要討論安樂死"},{"start":793,"end":795,"text":"或是我們真的要坐下來"},{"start":795,"end":797,"text":"審這個安樂死的法案"},{"start":797,"end":799,"text":"我們在這裡不就是要討論這個嗎"},{"start":799,"end":802,"text":"可是這個哪裡是這幾個立委"},{"start":802,"end":804,"text":"有能力討論的"},{"start":804,"end":806,"text":"正因為沒有能力討論"},{"start":806,"end":808,"text":"然後你說大家直接來投同意反對"},{"start":808,"end":811,"text":"支持反對贊成反對"},{"start":811,"end":812,"text":"這也是不負責任"},{"start":812,"end":814,"text":"因為大家想像的到底是什麼"},{"start":814,"end":816,"text":"不一樣"},{"start":816,"end":821,"text":"那你直接要把這一條界線畫在哪裡"},{"start":821,"end":823,"text":"我聽你的想法是"},{"start":823,"end":825,"text":"你大概就擔憂的更多"},{"start":825,"end":827,"text":"但我告訴過你就是說"},{"start":827,"end":829,"text":"我個人是支持的"},{"start":829,"end":830,"text":"比如說是這樣子"},{"start":830,"end":832,"text":"那我們在想"},{"start":832,"end":833,"text":"包括提案的委員和政黨"},{"start":833,"end":835,"text":"也都是支持的"},{"start":835,"end":837,"text":"還有很多人民也是支持的"},{"start":837,"end":840,"text":"但我們支持的概念都不見得相同"},{"start":840,"end":843,"text":"那一條界線要畫在哪裡"},{"start":843,"end":847,"text":"要畫出來才能寫在法律裡面"},{"start":847,"end":850,"text":"然後這個事情絕對"},{"start":850,"end":852,"text":"有一個重點"},{"start":852,"end":853,"text":"要畫在哪裡"},{"start":853,"end":858,"text":"絕對不能夠授權給衛福部去訂定"},{"start":858,"end":860,"text":"不能交給主管機關"},{"start":860,"end":864,"text":"日後以辦法或醫療指引去決定"},{"start":864,"end":866,"text":"現在民眾黨的版本"},{"start":866,"end":868,"text":"未來要授權給你們"},{"start":868,"end":870,"text":"這個是絕對不行"},{"start":870,"end":872,"text":"這個這麼嚴肅的問題"},{"start":872,"end":875,"text":"不能夠在這裡訂一個很草率的法律"},{"start":875,"end":877,"text":"然後就交給衛福部去訂定"},{"start":877,"end":878,"text":"這是不行"},{"start":878,"end":880,"text":"細節上這不是細節"},{"start":880,"end":884,"text":"這不是單純的醫療技術的問題"},{"start":884,"end":888,"text":"而是國家必須公開做出的法律的選擇"},{"start":888,"end":891,"text":"這是立法院說立法者"},{"start":891,"end":893,"text":"立法者要決定"},{"start":893,"end":896,"text":"究竟在什麼樣的生命處境之下"},{"start":896,"end":900,"text":"可以允許醫療人員提供致死的藥物"},{"start":900,"end":902,"text":"去終結一個人的生命"},{"start":902,"end":903,"text":"所以在這裡"},{"start":903,"end":907,"text":"我想再跟你回到具體的"},{"start":907,"end":911,"text":"談到安樂死就一定要講"},{"start":911,"end":915,"text":"不管民眾黨的或是嚴謹的末期的"},{"start":915,"end":919,"text":"都一定要扣到一個無法忍受的痛苦"},{"start":919,"end":921,"text":"除了自主決定以外"},{"start":921,"end":925,"text":"還要扣住一個叫做無法忍受的痛苦"},{"start":925,"end":928,"text":"那無法忍受的痛苦到底是什麼"},{"start":928,"end":929,"text":"什麼"},{"start":929,"end":930,"text":"部長"},{"start":930,"end":933,"text":"你認為那個東西到底是什麼"},{"start":934,"end":935,"text":"這個"},{"start":935,"end":939,"text":"這個會有很多主客觀條件影響"},{"start":939,"end":943,"text":"所以對於痛苦的定義"},{"start":943,"end":947,"text":"還有能夠容受的每一個決定都不一樣"},{"start":947,"end":950,"text":"開放安樂死的"},{"start":950,"end":951,"text":"不能忍受的痛苦"},{"start":951,"end":953,"text":"無法忍受的痛苦"},{"start":953,"end":955,"text":"他們談的是什麼"},{"start":956,"end":959,"text":"如果是有開放的"},{"start":959,"end":961,"text":"他要通過這個"},{"start":961,"end":965,"text":"因為有些是只有在生命末期"},{"start":965,"end":967,"text":"那如果是開放到這麼重"},{"start":967,"end":970,"text":"生命末期大概就是所謂的病理上的"},{"start":970,"end":972,"text":"生理上的疼痛無法忍受"},{"start":972,"end":973,"text":"我們可以理解"},{"start":973,"end":975,"text":"對那個是容易掛鉤"},{"start":975,"end":977,"text":"但是沒有生命末期"},{"start":977,"end":979,"text":"民眾黨的版本不是生命末期"},{"start":979,"end":981,"text":"那真的是很模糊"},{"start":981,"end":983,"text":"剛剛那個委員說的"},{"start":983,"end":986,"text":"他的經濟困難到他想死"},{"start":986,"end":990,"text":"他也覺得很難忍受生命這麼的困難"},{"start":990,"end":993,"text":"這算不算痛苦"},{"start":993,"end":995,"text":"所以奧勒岡州"},{"start":995,"end":998,"text":"美國奧勒岡是比較局限的"},{"start":998,"end":1001,"text":"他在2025年的官方資料顯示"},{"start":1001,"end":1003,"text":"他是限縮在生命末期"},{"start":1003,"end":1004,"text":"剩下六個月的"},{"start":1004,"end":1008,"text":"但是他在接受醫助死亡裡面"},{"start":1008,"end":1011,"text":"92%已經接受安寧療護了"},{"start":1011,"end":1015,"text":"但是同時這一些人也顯示說"},{"start":1015,"end":1016,"text":"失去自主"},{"start":1016,"end":1019,"text":"以及無法再從事有意義的活動"},{"start":1019,"end":1021,"text":"這樣子失去尊嚴"},{"start":1021,"end":1024,"text":"其實他們都很痛苦"},{"start":1024,"end":1025,"text":"失去尊嚴"},{"start":1025,"end":1028,"text":"然後失去自主"},{"start":1028,"end":1029,"text":"身體不停使喚"},{"start":1029,"end":1031,"text":"這個就是他們覺得很痛苦"},{"start":1031,"end":1034,"text":"但是相對寬鬆的加拿大"},{"start":1034,"end":1037,"text":"在2024年的資料顯示"},{"start":1037,"end":1039,"text":"最常見的痛苦來源是"},{"start":1039,"end":1042,"text":"無法從事有意義的活動"},{"start":1042,"end":1043,"text":"其次是"},{"start":1043,"end":1046,"text":"喪失日常生活的能力"},{"start":1046,"end":1047,"text":"獨立"},{"start":1047,"end":1049,"text":"喪失了獨立和尊嚴"},{"start":1049,"end":1051,"text":"疼痛控制不足"},{"start":1051,"end":1053,"text":"或是對疼痛的擔憂"},{"start":1053,"end":1055,"text":"反而排在後面"},{"start":1055,"end":1058,"text":"所以所謂的無法忍受的痛苦"},{"start":1058,"end":1060,"text":"病理上的"},{"start":1060,"end":1061,"text":"生理上的"},{"start":1061,"end":1064,"text":"疾病上的疼痛的擔憂"},{"start":1064,"end":1066,"text":"是排在後面的"},{"start":1066,"end":1068,"text":"所以最前面的是"},{"start":1068,"end":1070,"text":"喪失生活能力"},{"start":1070,"end":1073,"text":"然後喪失獨立和尊嚴"},{"start":1073,"end":1075,"text":"所以無法忍受的痛苦"},{"start":1075,"end":1077,"text":"不是只有身體的症狀"},{"start":1077,"end":1079,"text":"包括功能的喪失"},{"start":1079,"end":1081,"text":"然後病人對尊嚴自主"},{"start":1081,"end":1084,"text":"和生活意義的感受上"},{"start":1084,"end":1086,"text":"這個是很重要的"},{"start":1086,"end":1088,"text":"可是這些資料顯示"},{"start":1088,"end":1090,"text":"安樂死制度所稱的"},{"start":1090,"end":1091,"text":"無法忍受的痛苦"},{"start":1091,"end":1094,"text":"不是單一的醫學的症狀"},{"start":1094,"end":1095,"text":"包括了身體的症狀"},{"start":1095,"end":1096,"text":"功能的喪失"},{"start":1096,"end":1098,"text":"以及病人對尊嚴自主"},{"start":1098,"end":1099,"text":"和生活意義的感受"},{"start":1099,"end":1101,"text":"那醫生要評估"},{"start":1101,"end":1104,"text":"所謂醫學的症狀很容易"},{"start":1104,"end":1107,"text":"可是如果我們要評估一個人"},{"start":1107,"end":1109,"text":"能不能接受安樂死"},{"start":1109,"end":1112,"text":"你叫他從醫學上的評估"},{"start":1112,"end":1114,"text":"然後要變成說"},{"start":1114,"end":1118,"text":"他變成這個"},{"start":1118,"end":1121,"text":"到底是功能喪失上"},{"start":1121,"end":1122,"text":"尊嚴上自主上"},{"start":1122,"end":1124,"text":"或生活意義的感受上的痛苦"},{"start":1124,"end":1125,"text":"的評估"},{"start":1125,"end":1127,"text":"這就很困難了"},{"start":1127,"end":1129,"text":"這很困難"},{"start":1129,"end":1132,"text":"但是很多人"},{"start":1132,"end":1135,"text":"他沒有無法控制的疼痛"},{"start":1135,"end":1138,"text":"卻說包括我自己"},{"start":1138,"end":1140,"text":"或者是很多支持安樂死的"},{"start":1140,"end":1142,"text":"台灣的人民都會講說"},{"start":1142,"end":1145,"text":"我無法接受別人替我洗澡"},{"start":1145,"end":1146,"text":"替我餵食"},{"start":1146,"end":1148,"text":"替我清理排泄物"},{"start":1148,"end":1150,"text":"沒有尊嚴"},{"start":1150,"end":1151,"text":"失去自主"},{"start":1151,"end":1154,"text":"我沒有辦法接受我的身體"},{"start":1154,"end":1157,"text":"全部都不聽我使喚"},{"start":1157,"end":1160,"text":"那這就不只是疾病造成的痛苦"},{"start":1160,"end":1162,"text":"這也是對依賴別人"},{"start":1162,"end":1165,"text":"而活的價值的判斷"},{"start":1165,"end":1167,"text":"那這種感受能不能成為"},{"start":1167,"end":1169,"text":"安樂死的深情的理由"},{"start":1169,"end":1173,"text":"我想大多數人支持安樂死"},{"start":1173,"end":1176,"text":"可能都是來自於這一種"},{"start":1176,"end":1178,"text":"失去對自我身體的控制"},{"start":1178,"end":1180,"text":"全部依賴他人"},{"start":1180,"end":1182,"text":"毫無尊嚴"},{"start":1182,"end":1185,"text":"可能是這樣子的強烈的"},{"start":1185,"end":1188,"text":"這一種感受在支撐我們"},{"start":1188,"end":1190,"text":"全部都支持安樂死"},{"start":1190,"end":1192,"text":"可是你可不可以告訴我"},{"start":1192,"end":1196,"text":"在外國或者是現在的法律"},{"start":1196,"end":1199,"text":"架構草案裡面"},{"start":1199,"end":1202,"text":"這樣子就可以構成安樂死的條件嗎"},{"start":1202,"end":1206,"text":"在外國或是在我們兩個草案裡面"},{"start":1207,"end":1210,"text":"這個案子在加拿大發生過爭議"},{"start":1210,"end":1212,"text":"就是您提的這個暫子"},{"start":1212,"end":1214,"text":"他沒有辦法生活自理"},{"start":1214,"end":1217,"text":"所以他申請安樂死"},{"start":1217,"end":1218,"text":"對"},{"start":1218,"end":1219,"text":"就是這個案例"},{"start":1219,"end":1225,"text":"然後這個案例到最後是被駁回"},{"start":1225,"end":1228,"text":"因為他本來是有一個社會的"},{"start":1228,"end":1231,"text":"那個社福的支持"},{"start":1231,"end":1233,"text":"後來因為重新評估條件之後"},{"start":1233,"end":1235,"text":"他的社會支持給他減少"},{"start":1235,"end":1237,"text":"他因而提出"},{"start":1237,"end":1238,"text":"所以有社會支持"},{"start":1238,"end":1241,"text":"有照顧的服務進來"},{"start":1241,"end":1244,"text":"或許他就不會這麼高度的想要死"},{"start":1244,"end":1245,"text":"是"},{"start":1245,"end":1247,"text":"所以我們在這裡就是說"},{"start":1247,"end":1251,"text":"痛苦本來就是一種高度主觀的感覺"},{"start":1251,"end":1256,"text":"那一般外人你很難輕率的告訴病人說"},{"start":1256,"end":1258,"text":"你承受的痛苦並不嚴重"},{"start":1258,"end":1261,"text":"因為痛不痛苦是當事人最知道"},{"start":1261,"end":1265,"text":"你的痛苦不一定跟我的痛苦是一樣的"},{"start":1265,"end":1268,"text":"但是就是另一方面我們要考慮"},{"start":1268,"end":1270,"text":"只要本人認為某種生活狀態"},{"start":1270,"end":1271,"text":"已經不能接受了"},{"start":1271,"end":1275,"text":"然後醫生就可能被要求要認定他的痛苦"},{"start":1275,"end":1278,"text":"已經達到可以合法終止他生命的程度嗎"},{"start":1278,"end":1280,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":1280,"end":1282,"text":"這個叫醫生也真的很困難"},{"start":1282,"end":1283,"text":"真的很困難"},{"start":1283,"end":1287,"text":"這個不是只有單純的醫療專業的判斷而已"},{"start":1287,"end":1290,"text":"剛剛我們提到說是不是已經沒有其他的方式"},{"start":1290,"end":1292,"text":"因為有一個很重要的條件就是"},{"start":1292,"end":1296,"text":"沒有其他的方式可以緩解他的痛苦"},{"start":1296,"end":1298,"text":"解決他的痛苦才會"},{"start":1298,"end":1299,"text":"不是啦"},{"start":1299,"end":1302,"text":"到底什麼的痛苦是生理上病理上的"},{"start":1302,"end":1304,"text":"還是我們剛剛講失去尊嚴"},{"start":1304,"end":1305,"text":"完全失能"},{"start":1305,"end":1306,"text":"完全依賴他人"},{"start":1306,"end":1309,"text":"然後這一種或者是說"},{"start":1309,"end":1312,"text":"還要被剝奪了照顧以後"},{"start":1312,"end":1314,"text":"我就變成這痛苦"},{"start":1314,"end":1316,"text":"國家資源給我剝奪減少了"},{"start":1316,"end":1317,"text":"我也覺得很痛苦"},{"start":1317,"end":1319,"text":"這樣子就可以合法終止生命嗎"},{"start":1319,"end":1322,"text":"所以我們的法律的架構"},{"start":1322,"end":1324,"text":"我看到的寬鬆的版本"},{"start":1324,"end":1326,"text":"就是以無法忍受的痛苦"},{"start":1326,"end":1328,"text":"和現在醫療無法解決"},{"start":1328,"end":1330,"text":"就作為安樂死的資格的話"},{"start":1330,"end":1332,"text":"這個恐怕也是"},{"start":1332,"end":1336,"text":"我大家倫理上要大家一起討論"},{"start":1336,"end":1337,"text":"因為我簡單的講"},{"start":1337,"end":1339,"text":"中風大多數的中風"},{"start":1339,"end":1343,"text":"而且是全身癱瘓的那種中風"},{"start":1343,"end":1346,"text":"他有辦法現在醫療可以回復嗎"},{"start":1346,"end":1348,"text":"可能不行"},{"start":1348,"end":1351,"text":"但是他是完全失能"},{"start":1351,"end":1357,"text":"但是他個人也有人覺得不痛苦"},{"start":1357,"end":1358,"text":"但也有很多人覺得"},{"start":1358,"end":1361,"text":"這樣子沒有意義的活著很痛苦"},{"start":1361,"end":1363,"text":"在這種狀況裡面"},{"start":1363,"end":1365,"text":"這樣子就可以作為安樂死的資格嗎"},{"start":1365,"end":1368,"text":"在外國可能是沒那麼容易"},{"start":1368,"end":1370,"text":"沒那麼容易"},{"start":1370,"end":1374,"text":"但我不知道提出這種法案的"},{"start":1374,"end":1376,"text":"政黨想的是什麼"},{"start":1376,"end":1378,"text":"但是我可以肯定的告訴你"},{"start":1378,"end":1381,"text":"很多人跟我想法一樣"},{"start":1381,"end":1383,"text":"只要這樣子我就想要死"},{"start":1383,"end":1388,"text":"但是恐怕法律不敢這樣子定"},{"start":1388,"end":1392,"text":"因為醫生也不想要扛起這樣的責任"},{"start":1392,"end":1395,"text":"扮演起上帝的角色"},{"start":1395,"end":1397,"text":"因為那個痛苦可能"},{"start":1397,"end":1400,"text":"生理上病理上沒那麼大的痛苦"},{"start":1400,"end":1403,"text":"可是心理壓力的尊嚴的"},{"start":1403,"end":1405,"text":"失去尊嚴的痛苦"},{"start":1405,"end":1407,"text":"有的人把尊嚴看得很重"},{"start":1407,"end":1411,"text":"有的人不一定把尊嚴看得那麼重"},{"start":1411,"end":1414,"text":"所以這樣子到底那條線要劃在哪裡"},{"start":1414,"end":1416,"text":"我覺得我們今天就是一直要"},{"start":1416,"end":1418,"text":"不斷地來討論這個問題"},{"start":1418,"end":1421,"text":"那無法忍受的痛苦"},{"start":1421,"end":1423,"text":"這個東西要由誰來判斷"},{"start":1423,"end":1426,"text":"那有沒有辦法"},{"start":1426,"end":1427,"text":"可能啦"},{"start":1427,"end":1429,"text":"痛苦是真實的存在"},{"start":1429,"end":1430,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":1430,"end":1431,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":1431,"end":1433,"text":"如果像剛才講的"},{"start":1433,"end":1436,"text":"你的經濟的資源進來了"},{"start":1436,"end":1439,"text":"你的家人如果沒有存在"},{"start":1439,"end":1441,"text":"國家的力量也進來了"},{"start":1441,"end":1444,"text":"事實上痛苦是會減輕的"},{"start":1444,"end":1445,"text":"所以我們一直在講的是說"},{"start":1445,"end":1446,"text":"這個自主"},{"start":1446,"end":1450,"text":"除了說不能忍受的痛苦以外"},{"start":1450,"end":1452,"text":"再來就是自主選擇"},{"start":1452,"end":1454,"text":"到底是真的自主"},{"start":1454,"end":1458,"text":"還是被迫沒得選擇的自主"},{"start":1459,"end":1462,"text":"所以是尊重病人的自主很重要"},{"start":1462,"end":1464,"text":"但自主不是說"},{"start":1464,"end":1468,"text":"我們開始諮商評估他的心智"},{"start":1468,"end":1470,"text":"你真的是自主選擇要安樂死的嗎"},{"start":1470,"end":1472,"text":"對我真的是"},{"start":1472,"end":1475,"text":"但是你還要去確認一件事情"},{"start":1475,"end":1478,"text":"你為什麼想要選擇安樂死"},{"start":1478,"end":1482,"text":"你真的死亡的意願是如何形成的"},{"start":1482,"end":1484,"text":"所以你在法律上確認說"},{"start":1484,"end":1487,"text":"我是自主選擇的"},{"start":1487,"end":1488,"text":"那你只能證明說對"},{"start":1488,"end":1490,"text":"我是自主選擇的"},{"start":1490,"end":1492,"text":"可是你卻不能夠回答到"},{"start":1492,"end":1495,"text":"這個自主選擇想要死亡的意願"},{"start":1495,"end":1498,"text":"是在什麼樣的條件之下"},{"start":1498,"end":1501,"text":"你讓他會做這種選擇"},{"start":1501,"end":1503,"text":"一個人可能會因為憂鬱"},{"start":1503,"end":1505,"text":"當望孤獨經濟困難"},{"start":1505,"end":1507,"text":"失能長期依賴他人失去尊嚴"},{"start":1507,"end":1510,"text":"而逐漸認為自己不想活了"},{"start":1510,"end":1512,"text":"那這些因素未必使病人"},{"start":1512,"end":1515,"text":"喪失意識的能力"},{"start":1515,"end":1519,"text":"就是說對我可以自主做決定說我不想活了"},{"start":1519,"end":1522,"text":"但卻可能影響他如果看待自己的處境"},{"start":1522,"end":1525,"text":"以及是否自己還有其他選擇"},{"start":1525,"end":1527,"text":"如果說你的經濟困難"},{"start":1527,"end":1529,"text":"國家願意幫助你"},{"start":1529,"end":1531,"text":"如果說你的失能"},{"start":1531,"end":1533,"text":"不要拖累你的家人"},{"start":1533,"end":1535,"text":"國家的照顧體系會進來"},{"start":1535,"end":1537,"text":"請問你你會不會改變"},{"start":1537,"end":1539,"text":"你的想要死的意願"},{"start":1539,"end":1541,"text":"有可能當然有可能"},{"start":1541,"end":1543,"text":"好那我要講現在相關研究顯示"},{"start":1543,"end":1546,"text":"默契的病人希望加速死亡"},{"start":1546,"end":1549,"text":"也通常也不是單一症狀說"},{"start":1549,"end":1550,"text":"痛苦都不堪"},{"start":1550,"end":1553,"text":"其實心理困擾失去自主自我認同"},{"start":1553,"end":1555,"text":"也是同時複雜的交付的存在的"},{"start":1555,"end":1558,"text":"但是呢總之連默契的人"},{"start":1558,"end":1559,"text":"都有一種就是"},{"start":1559,"end":1562,"text":"自覺到成為他人的負擔"},{"start":1562,"end":1564,"text":"可能涉及到病人"},{"start":1564,"end":1567,"text":"因為無法再回應家人的付出"},{"start":1567,"end":1570,"text":"而產生了內疚虧欠和責任感"},{"start":1570,"end":1573,"text":"這個讓連默契的病人都存在"},{"start":1573,"end":1574,"text":"然後也想要死"},{"start":1574,"end":1576,"text":"所以這就是真正的現實"},{"start":1576,"end":1577,"text":"就是也是台灣"},{"start":1577,"end":1579,"text":"必須要特別注意的地方"},{"start":1579,"end":1582,"text":"就是很多年紀的長輩"},{"start":1582,"end":1585,"text":"跟我講說你要趕快安樂死立法"},{"start":1585,"end":1587,"text":"他們都這樣跟我講"},{"start":1587,"end":1589,"text":"年長的人他們講說"},{"start":1589,"end":1591,"text":"我不想拖累家人"},{"start":1591,"end":1594,"text":"這未必是家人提出了什麼要求"},{"start":1594,"end":1595,"text":"是他自己就說"},{"start":1595,"end":1597,"text":"我不想拖累家人"},{"start":1597,"end":1599,"text":"然後很多長輩就是看見"},{"start":1599,"end":1602,"text":"年邁的配偶沒有體力了"},{"start":1602,"end":1604,"text":"子女陪病影響了工作"},{"start":1604,"end":1608,"text":"或者是家庭又要長期負擔看護"},{"start":1608,"end":1611,"text":"或者是機構的費用很重"},{"start":1611,"end":1612,"text":"然後這認為說"},{"start":1612,"end":1615,"text":"未來要減輕家人的負擔"},{"start":1615,"end":1618,"text":"是自己作為家庭的一份子"},{"start":1618,"end":1621,"text":"最後可以為家人做的"},{"start":1621,"end":1622,"text":"所以也是自己"},{"start":1622,"end":1624,"text":"應該要去承擔的責任"},{"start":1624,"end":1625,"text":"難道不是嗎"},{"start":1625,"end":1628,"text":"多少人是因為這樣子"},{"start":1628,"end":1633,"text":"真的 那這個是真正的自主嗎"},{"start":1633,"end":1636,"text":"這個是真正的自主嗎"},{"start":1637,"end":1639,"text":"加拿大衛生部2024年的"},{"start":1639,"end":1642,"text":"醫助死亡報告也指出"},{"start":1642,"end":1644,"text":"認為自己成為家人朋友"},{"start":1644,"end":1646,"text":"或照顧者的負擔"},{"start":1646,"end":1649,"text":"是近半數接受醫助死亡者"},{"start":1649,"end":1652,"text":"被記錄的痛苦的來源"},{"start":1652,"end":1655,"text":"第一軌的末期的快死的"},{"start":1655,"end":1657,"text":"也認為自己成為負擔的"},{"start":1657,"end":1659,"text":"有48.4%"},{"start":1659,"end":1662,"text":"第二軌他還沒有末期"},{"start":1662,"end":1666,"text":"但是他還是有50%想要死"},{"start":1666,"end":1669,"text":"是因為怕自己成為家人的負擔"},{"start":1669,"end":1673,"text":"所以在這裡真的這個負擔"},{"start":1673,"end":1676,"text":"加上其他痛苦交織在一起"},{"start":1676,"end":1678,"text":"法律真正要確認的是什麼"},{"start":1678,"end":1681,"text":"我們在這裡立法 討論立法"},{"start":1681,"end":1682,"text":"法律要真正確認的是"},{"start":1682,"end":1685,"text":"如果病人的疼痛獲得控制"},{"start":1685,"end":1687,"text":"所需要的長照"},{"start":1687,"end":1690,"text":"心理和經濟支持已經實際提供"},{"start":1690,"end":1693,"text":"家人不必承擔超出能力的"},{"start":1693,"end":1695,"text":"照顧工作與支出"},{"start":1695,"end":1698,"text":"他是否仍然會堅定的"},{"start":1698,"end":1702,"text":"持續的希望結束生命呢"},{"start":1702,"end":1703,"text":"但是我在這裡要跟你說"},{"start":1703,"end":1706,"text":"部長這個時候這件事情"},{"start":1706,"end":1709,"text":"就跟國家的責任有關"},{"start":1709,"end":1711,"text":"因為很多人可能會說"},{"start":1711,"end":1713,"text":"我還是想要 為什麼"},{"start":1713,"end":1717,"text":"因為我不認為國家會"},{"start":1717,"end":1720,"text":"幫我們擔起這麼多的責任"},{"start":1720,"end":1723,"text":"有能力擔起這麼多的責任"},{"start":1723,"end":1726,"text":"我們也不認為少子女化以後"},{"start":1726,"end":1730,"text":"這個看護的責任會降低"},{"start":1730,"end":1734,"text":"所以我覺得這個東西真的是"},{"start":1734,"end":1736,"text":"我覺得時常在掙扎"},{"start":1736,"end":1737,"text":"因為我個人真的是"},{"start":1737,"end":1740,"text":"高度的支持安樂死"},{"start":1740,"end":1743,"text":"但我也知道很多人"},{"start":1743,"end":1745,"text":"沒有這麼堅定"},{"start":1745,"end":1748,"text":"可是那些人你要去期待"},{"start":1748,"end":1750,"text":"照顧的體系進來"},{"start":1750,"end":1752,"text":"經濟的負擔減輕"},{"start":1752,"end":1754,"text":"然後家庭的看護的責任"},{"start":1754,"end":1755,"text":"不要那麼重"},{"start":1755,"end":1757,"text":"是不可期待的"},{"start":1757,"end":1760,"text":"是期待但是不可期待的"},{"start":1760,"end":1761,"text":"所以在這裡"},{"start":1761,"end":1762,"text":"我要再講一次"},{"start":1762,"end":1763,"text":"最後我要講"},{"start":1763,"end":1764,"text":"我知道很多很長的時間"},{"start":1764,"end":1767,"text":"就是說當死亡成為合法的選項"},{"start":1767,"end":1770,"text":"國家真的要如何去確認"},{"start":1770,"end":1774,"text":"病人是不是還有其他的選擇"},{"start":1774,"end":1776,"text":"這個事情很重要"},{"start":1776,"end":1779,"text":"因為只要安樂死合法化以後"},{"start":1779,"end":1781,"text":"不是增加一個選項而已"},{"start":1781,"end":1784,"text":"它會改變整體這個社會裡面"},{"start":1784,"end":1787,"text":"所有高齡者 失能者"},{"start":1787,"end":1789,"text":"長期依賴照顧者"},{"start":1789,"end":1792,"text":"他如何去看待自己"},{"start":1792,"end":1795,"text":"要不要活著 要不要存在"},{"start":1795,"end":1798,"text":"當死亡成為合法的選項的時候"},{"start":1798,"end":1801,"text":"國家要必須避免任何人"},{"start":1801,"end":1803,"text":"因為需要他人照顧"},{"start":1803,"end":1806,"text":"而逐漸覺得自己必須向家人"},{"start":1806,"end":1807,"text":"或社會解釋"},{"start":1807,"end":1810,"text":"為什麼還想要繼續活下去"},{"start":1810,"end":1814,"text":"然後也必須要告訴自己說"},{"start":1814,"end":1817,"text":"不要成為家人的累贅"},{"start":1817,"end":1820,"text":"不要帶著愧疚 內疚這樣活著"},{"start":1821,"end":1825,"text":"所以我的個人的想法"},{"start":1825,"end":1828,"text":"跟這個社會很多人的想法"},{"start":1828,"end":1830,"text":"都是說 我再說一次"},{"start":1830,"end":1831,"text":"我們支持安樂死"},{"start":1831,"end":1834,"text":"但是安樂死我們想像的"},{"start":1834,"end":1838,"text":"跟立法者所訂的不會一樣"},{"start":1838,"end":1840,"text":"不見得會一樣"},{"start":1840,"end":1844,"text":"然後我還是認為照顧的處境"},{"start":1844,"end":1846,"text":"和社會的處境"},{"start":1846,"end":1849,"text":"家庭的關係 經濟的要件"},{"start":1849,"end":1852,"text":"一定要充分的審視這一些要件"},{"start":1852,"end":1855,"text":"要確認自主的意願"},{"start":1855,"end":1858,"text":"不是被迫的 是真的自主"},{"start":1858,"end":1860,"text":"可是這真的很難"},{"start":1860,"end":1862,"text":"而且還要有"},{"start":1862,"end":1865,"text":"這個是真正的自主的選擇"},{"start":1865,"end":1868,"text":"到底是不是 還是被迫的"},{"start":1868,"end":1870,"text":"這真的是很難的"},{"start":1870,"end":1871,"text":"這個在已經施行的國家"},{"start":1871,"end":1872,"text":"或者是台灣"},{"start":1872,"end":1875,"text":"現在社會要高度的對話的時候"},{"start":1875,"end":1877,"text":"我們都應該要仔細的想"},{"start":1877,"end":1878,"text":"仔細的想"},{"start":1878,"end":1881,"text":"而不是只是公投支持反對"},{"start":1881,"end":1883,"text":"這是不負責任的"},{"start":1884,"end":1886,"text":"那你覺得呢"},{"start":1886,"end":1887,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":1887,"end":1888,"text":"不是支持或反對"},{"start":1888,"end":1889,"text":"給了我們"},{"start":1889,"end":1891,"text":"你知道國家的責任很深刻的一刻"},{"start":1891,"end":1893,"text":"因為被迫選擇"},{"start":1893,"end":1895,"text":"這個裡面有一大部分是來自於"},{"start":1895,"end":1899,"text":"國家要進場 有責任"},{"start":1899,"end":1902,"text":"但是我也知道這個財政負擔"},{"start":1902,"end":1903,"text":"真的沒那麼容易"},{"start":1903,"end":1905,"text":"很難很難"},{"start":1906,"end":1908,"text":"但是你們到底"},{"start":1908,"end":1910,"text":"好吧 今天只是第一場"},{"start":1910,"end":1913,"text":"我們不希望 不期待會有"},{"start":1913,"end":1915,"text":"直接有答案"},{"start":1915,"end":1918,"text":"好 謝謝委員 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}