{"error":false,"id":["170794"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170794,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170794","日期":"2026-07-30","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-07-30T13:39:28+08:00","結束時間":"2026-07-30T13:47:27+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e0eb45d9b4eab070c8f3b1bbd4ba27a3e1b2630d25083220ef2d5607727a9e484e59da5588efa9b45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉書彬","委員發言時間":"13:39:28 - 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謝謝主席 那有請石部長"},{"start":13.3,"end":14.6,"text":"有請石部長"},{"start":19.2,"end":20,"text":"好 劉委員好"},{"start":20,"end":22,"text":"好 部長好"},{"start":22,"end":26.7,"text":"那請問部長對於前體育的知名主播傅達仁"},{"start":26.7,"end":30,"text":"他在2018年遠赴瑞士去進行安樂死"},{"start":30,"end":31,"text":"有什麼樣的看法"},{"start":31,"end":34.6,"text":"我想每一個個案的背後都是"},{"start":34.6,"end":37.7,"text":"有值得我們大家很深刻的故事"},{"start":37.7,"end":41.6,"text":"所以對於這個傅先生"},{"start":41.6,"end":45.7,"text":"最後的這個赴瑞士的這個當然"},{"start":45.7,"end":49.4,"text":"他的想法是想要出安樂死合法化"},{"start":49.4,"end":50.7,"text":"我們真的是想"},{"start":50.7,"end":53.9,"text":"到底還有沒有其他的方法可以幫忙他"},{"start":53.9,"end":55.5,"text":"好 那您有在想就對了"},{"start":55.5,"end":56.5,"text":"我覺得老布也在講"},{"start":56.5,"end":58.5,"text":"那我們再繼續往下看"},{"start":58.5,"end":62.5,"text":"就是請問您對於說台灣民眾黨"},{"start":62.5,"end":66.3,"text":"他之前提出來的尊嚴善忠安樂死法"},{"start":66.3,"end":67.8,"text":"自化的公投"},{"start":67.8,"end":71,"text":"那這個案子也送到立法院再做審議了"},{"start":71,"end":73.7,"text":"那你出聽到這樣的一個公投案的提出"},{"start":73.7,"end":75.9,"text":"您第一時間的看法是什麼"},{"start":75.9,"end":81.2,"text":"我認為這個議題涉及到生命"},{"start":81.2,"end":85.2,"text":"所以我們在這個對於這種生命的尊重的議題"},{"start":85.2,"end":88.2,"text":"那麼應該要更廣泛深度的討論"},{"start":88.2,"end":90.7,"text":"像我們今天在立法院有多位委員"},{"start":90.7,"end":93.7,"text":"也都指出了非常深刻的意見"},{"start":93.7,"end":97.7,"text":"那麼這裡面不只是醫療專業的單獨的判斷"},{"start":97.7,"end":99.7,"text":"還包含了社會的支持"},{"start":99.7,"end":104.7,"text":"家庭弱勢等等跟這個價值觀"},{"start":104.7,"end":106.7,"text":"所以這個影響層面是很大的"},{"start":106.7,"end":110.7,"text":"所以我才會講希望大家審思"},{"start":110.7,"end":113.2,"text":"我們可以來開放多一點討論"},{"start":113.2,"end":116.2,"text":"那方式直接以公投的方式"},{"start":116.2,"end":119.2,"text":"那可能會過於太簡略了"},{"start":119.2,"end":122.7,"text":"你這樣講我們現在這不是01的問題"},{"start":122.7,"end":126.2,"text":"對沒錯沒錯不會公投有相關的法治程序"},{"start":126.2,"end":129.2,"text":"我們先看一下已經8年過去了"},{"start":129.2,"end":132.7,"text":"到現在為止像包括剛才部長您所說的"},{"start":132.7,"end":136.2,"text":"台灣並未朝向安樂死合法化的方向在研議"},{"start":136.2,"end":139.2,"text":"那就是說到現在你今天回答之前"},{"start":139.2,"end":143.2,"text":"那重點就檢視重點要把它放在安寧緩和醫療"},{"start":143.2,"end":145.7,"text":"病人自主跟長照照顧"},{"start":145.7,"end":147.7,"text":"長照制度是否有人有不足"},{"start":147.7,"end":150.7,"text":"並評估說相關法治是不是能夠跟政策銜接"},{"start":150.7,"end":152.7,"text":"是否更完善對不對"},{"start":152.7,"end":155.7,"text":"這是過去的時候部裡面的看法"},{"start":155.7,"end":160.2,"text":"我想不論是貴黨所提出的安樂死法案"},{"start":160.2,"end":165.7,"text":"或者是目前那麼法律上所許可的安寧緩和或病主法"},{"start":165.7,"end":167.7,"text":"其實目標是一致的"},{"start":167.7,"end":170.7,"text":"都是希望讓尊嚴善終"},{"start":170.7,"end":173.7,"text":"而這個社會是會不斷的進步"},{"start":173.7,"end":178.7,"text":"像我們這個安寧緩和條例也是在2000年才通過立法"},{"start":178.7,"end":183.7,"text":"在2000年之前其實也是經過很長一段時間的討論"},{"start":183.7,"end":185.7,"text":"我知道你的答案都是這樣子"},{"start":185.7,"end":188.7,"text":"就是應該就繼續把制度上面把它精進嘛"},{"start":188.7,"end":190.7,"text":"這是衛福部的看法"},{"start":190.7,"end":193.7,"text":"但是從2018年到現在"},{"start":193.7,"end":197.7,"text":"基本上沒有特別對這兩個三個法案"},{"start":197.7,"end":200.7,"text":"就是這兩個最重要的是安寧緩和跟病人自主"},{"start":200.7,"end":201.7,"text":"有比較做改變"},{"start":201.7,"end":205.7,"text":"當然是對那個預立的移組的諮詢有加強嘛"},{"start":205.7,"end":206.7,"text":"對不對"},{"start":206.7,"end":208.7,"text":"但是呢現在看法還是繼續在研議的話"},{"start":208.7,"end":210.7,"text":"就會有出現到一個很大的問題是"},{"start":210.7,"end":212.7,"text":"沒有辦法現實的沒有"},{"start":212.7,"end":215.7,"text":"就是沒有辦法8年過去也沒辦法出現到問題啦"},{"start":215.7,"end":217.7,"text":"跟委員說明其實喔"},{"start":217.7,"end":221.7,"text":"這個2000年是以這個安寧條例"},{"start":221.7,"end":223.7,"text":"那麼安寧緩和條例呢"},{"start":223.7,"end":225.7,"text":"它是針對生命末期"},{"start":225.7,"end":228.7,"text":"那但是到了病主法我們又往前一步"},{"start":228.7,"end":231.7,"text":"這裡面包含不可逆的昏迷"},{"start":231.7,"end":233.7,"text":"包含植物人的狀態"},{"start":233.7,"end":236.7,"text":"包含嚴重的失智我們都已經納入適用的對象"},{"start":236.7,"end":240.7,"text":"其實經過從2000年到2018年"},{"start":240.7,"end":244.7,"text":"這中間又有了一些討論之後才又往前了一步"},{"start":244.7,"end":247.7,"text":"對但是2018年部長您我的問題是在"},{"start":247.7,"end":251.7,"text":"除了這個安寧緩等的事業費用又擴大了"},{"start":251.7,"end":254.7,"text":"我剛才已經說你最重要是放在自組的"},{"start":254.7,"end":256.7,"text":"醫組的這邊玉立"},{"start":256.7,"end":259.7,"text":"呃移組這部分有多了這個諮詢等等的"},{"start":259.7,"end":262.7,"text":"可是現在就是說2018年到現在沒有太多的影響"},{"start":262.7,"end":264.7,"text":"我現在重點是要跟大家講的是"},{"start":264.7,"end":267.7,"text":"我們本身呢我想問的是部長您知不知道"},{"start":267.7,"end":270.7,"text":"如果是這樣子的一個做法的話呢"},{"start":270.7,"end":273.7,"text":"對於非常多的罹患不可治癒疾病"},{"start":273.7,"end":276.7,"text":"且長期去承受難以緩解的"},{"start":276.7,"end":278.7,"text":"緩解的這個身心痛苦的人"},{"start":278.7,"end":280.7,"text":"他是沒有尊嚴在這活著啦"},{"start":280.7,"end":283.7,"text":"那很多人他是生不如死啊這樣的情況之下"},{"start":283.7,"end":286.7,"text":"您其實是剝奪他的生命自主"},{"start":286.7,"end":288.7,"text":"跟選擇善終的權利啊"},{"start":288.7,"end":291.7,"text":"那我這邊要跟部長詢問的是說呢"},{"start":291.7,"end":295.7,"text":"請問您知道說如果一個公投的這個案子"},{"start":295.7,"end":297.7,"text":"如果現在民眾黨的部分呢"},{"start":297.7,"end":300.7,"text":"他這個現在他提出來吧"},{"start":300.7,"end":302.7,"text":"8月份預計那如果順利通過的話"},{"start":302.7,"end":305.7,"text":"那中選會會在8月做審議啦"},{"start":305.7,"end":307.7,"text":"那如果順利的話呢"},{"start":307.7,"end":309.7,"text":"預定是排定到11月份的時候呢"},{"start":309.7,"end":311.7,"text":"要做公投的這個投票啦"},{"start":311.7,"end":314.7,"text":"那您知道他會有經過在真正的11月"},{"start":314.7,"end":316.7,"text":"在做投票的時候呢"},{"start":316.7,"end":318.7,"text":"之前會經過哪些程序嗎"},{"start":318.7,"end":322.7,"text":"大概了解但是這個時間太短了"},{"start":322.7,"end":323.7,"text":"太短了"},{"start":323.7,"end":325.7,"text":"這個只是表示預約而已"},{"start":325.7,"end":327.7,"text":"部長這只是表示預約而已"},{"start":327.7,"end":328.7,"text":"我就要跟你講"},{"start":328.7,"end":329.7,"text":"你跟他說之前都沒有溝通"},{"start":329.7,"end":331.7,"text":"我現在就跟你講這個法律程序是這樣子"},{"start":331.7,"end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or no的公投方式來執行"},{"start":452.7,"end":456.7,"text":"你完全忽略了我剛才所說的一個溝通諮詢程序"},{"start":456.7,"end":458.7,"text":"那包括本身的如果公投法通過的話"},{"start":458.7,"end":460.7,"text":"那個公投通過的話"},{"start":460.7,"end":462.7,"text":"公投法30條的適用就會立即實施"},{"start":462.7,"end":464.7,"text":"沒有充分的溝通"},{"start":464.7,"end":468.7,"text":"這個大家的心中的想像都不一樣"},{"start":468.7,"end":470.7,"text":"這個如何公投我真的是很大的懷疑"},{"start":470.7,"end":472.7,"text":"這部分就是依照民意的決定"},{"start":472.7,"end":474.7,"text":"劉委員注意時間"},{"start":474.7,"end":476.7,"text":"好謝謝劉助濱委員發言"},{"start":476.7,"end":478.7,"text":"接下來請劉建國委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}