{"error":false,"id":["170813"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170813,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170813","日期":"2026-08-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-36-28","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":28,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-05T09:35:35+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-05T09:53:33+08:00","影片長度":"00:17:58","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d053bb9b075f6aeaff15b860605492bb5d630c7d559282e8298d2d7c9f77aa9cc0ae87ae6cfd03fb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳宗憲","委員發言時間":"09:35:35 - 09:53:33","會議時間":"2026-08-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等16人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「行政法院組織法第二十一條、第二十二條及第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等19人擬具「行政法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「行政法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「智慧財產及商業法院組織法第十八條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等20人擬具「智慧財產及商業法院組織法第十八條、第二十一條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「智慧財產及商業法院組織法第十八條、第二十一條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「少年及家事法院組織法第十四條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等20人擬具「少年及家事法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「少年及家事法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「懲戒法院組織法第六條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等20人擬具「懲戒法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「懲戒法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.148468750000001,"end":6.308468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.535968750000002,"end":10.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.387843750000002,"end":38.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.11346875,"end":66.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.422218750000006,"end":61.523468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.60284375,"end":69.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.43784375,"end":93.38346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.75471875000001,"end":102.37784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.44534375,"end":119.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.09659375000001,"end":126.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.29409375,"end":126.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.06596875000001,"end":131.31846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.95159375,"end":162.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.77346875,"end":171.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.97034375,"end":202.58159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.34096875,"end":204.33659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.67409375000003,"end":207.40784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.81284375,"end":228.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.71659375000002,"end":232.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.31096875000003,"end":246.49034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":245.49471875,"end":252.39659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":253.05471875,"end":257.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.20596875,"end":267.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.97221875,"end":275.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.49034375,"end":295.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":275.73471875,"end":277.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.03534375000004,"end":300.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.74346875000003,"end":301.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.80659375000005,"end":308.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.92784375,"end":323.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.08159375,"end":325.21221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.83659375,"end":332.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.28284375000004,"end":337.80096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":337.90221875000003,"end":349.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.96784375000004,"end":353.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":354.15284375000005,"end":357.73034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.96659375,"end":362.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.84346875,"end":387.63284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.83534375000005,"end":391.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.85159375,"end":404.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.67659375000005,"end":415.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.96596875,"end":416.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.13034375,"end":422.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.01971875000004,"end":424.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":425.92221875,"end":432.82409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.94221875000005,"end":445.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.36221875,"end":447.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":447.58971875000003,"end":454.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":455.09909375,"end":458.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":458.81159375000004,"end":462.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":462.87846875,"end":478.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":479.98971875,"end":481.69409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.04846875000004,"end":483.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.88346875,"end":488.35971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.46096875,"end":491.05971875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.61659375000005,"end":493.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":494.29971875,"end":504.00284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.67784375,"end":507.90096875000006},{"speak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先有請法務部"},{"start":10.5,"end":14.58,"text":"好 市長你好 我想今天我們審查法院組織法"},{"start":14.58,"end":19.7,"text":"這個部分司法院跟法務部對我的提案大致都是支持的 所以我很感謝"},{"start":19.7,"end":23.8,"text":"那今天質詢我就不在那個法案上面浪費時間"},{"start":23.8,"end":29.44,"text":"那我要就這個機會就最近大家全民比較在乎的兩個事件請教法務部"},{"start":29.64,"end":33.54,"text":"第一個是警察登門就那個由不得你這個影片"},{"start":33.54,"end":38.64,"text":"製作人查水表移送北檢 第二個是國營事業台糖到底有沒有"},{"start":38.64,"end":45.24,"text":"這個食安通報的義務 那進入質詢前我想我先確認一件事 法務部裡面有法律師傅司嘛"},{"start":45.24,"end":48.84,"text":"官網寫得非常清楚 那市長我想這個"},{"start":48.84,"end":54.84,"text":"貴司他負責處理就是法規諮詢跟法律問題的處理嘛 這個沒問題"},{"start":55.040000000000006,"end":56.040000000000006,"text":"官網就有"},{"start":56.040000000000006,"end":58.040000000000006,"text":"那所以我今天不是問"},{"start":58.040000000000006,"end":64.24000000000001,"text":"個案的事實也不會去干預任何偵查 我今天討論的是就法律員原則 既有解釋"},{"start":64.24000000000001,"end":66.24000000000001,"text":"最高法案的解釋 然後我來"},{"start":66.24000000000001,"end":69.24000000000001,"text":"問一下法務部到底問題出在哪裡"},{"start":69.24000000000001,"end":72.54,"text":"那個今天我說由不得你這個案子啊"},{"start":72.54,"end":78.24000000000001,"text":"其實警政署最近一直被問的一個問題就是為什麼你查的超級快"},{"start":78.24000000000001,"end":83.04,"text":"那我今天想要問法務部這個更根本的一個問題就是這支影片到底"},{"start":83.24000000000001,"end":86.04,"text":"到底夠不夠成文書的定義"},{"start":86.04,"end":88.44000000000001,"text":"如果連這個定義都過不了的話"},{"start":88.44000000000001,"end":93.84,"text":"那更不要談說是偽造準文書或偽造私文書等等的"},{"start":93.84,"end":96.44000000000001,"text":"如果你的文書的構成要件都不符合"},{"start":96.44000000000001,"end":100.54,"text":"更不要說有後面可能產生的偽造文書的概念"},{"start":100.54,"end":106.84,"text":"好那我這次要講一個東西就是警察這次直接鎖定特定人跑到他們家去"},{"start":106.84,"end":110.04,"text":"他做了三件事 第一個確定是不是影片製作人"},{"start":110.04,"end":114.44000000000001,"text":"第二個要他考慮下架 第三個要他到案做筆錄"},{"start":114.44000000000001,"end":120.24000000000001,"text":"我想請問司長警察跑到當事人家跟他講這事是屬於零檢嗎"},{"start":120.24000000000001,"end":125.74000000000001,"text":"我想那個委員所提的這個部分是警察他在行使職權上的"},{"start":125.74000000000001,"end":127.44000000000001,"text":"不是零檢對不對"},{"start":127.44000000000001,"end":129.84,"text":"這個是不是零檢 我想警察他們會"},{"start":129.84,"end":131.74,"text":"沒關係我想那個那個"},{"start":131.74,"end":135.14000000000001,"text":"這個很簡單不是零檢 因為零檢是最不特定人"},{"start":135.14000000000001,"end":137.14000000000001,"text":"那我們今天已經知道這個人是誰跑到他家"},{"start":137.14000000000001,"end":139.14000000000001,"text":"這個應該不符合零檢的要件嘛"},{"start":139.23999999999998,"end":141.83999999999997,"text":"我想這個這個應該是沒有沒有爭議啦"},{"start":141.83999999999997,"end":146.83999999999997,"text":"那我今天問題是如果依照4-535號"},{"start":146.83999999999997,"end":150.14,"text":"我們對於不特定人在公眾場所警察對他零檢"},{"start":150.14,"end":153.83999999999997,"text":"都必須告知事由出示證件表明身份"},{"start":153.83999999999997,"end":160.44,"text":"都有這麼嚴格的要求 就我們對於比零檢強度更高的跑到人家家去"},{"start":160.44,"end":165.83999999999997,"text":"但是卻沒有連這個最基本零檢該進的義務都沒有進到"},{"start":165.94,"end":171.14000000000001,"text":"甚至還要求他要下架 問他要不要下架或是要來做筆錄"},{"start":171.14000000000001,"end":173.74,"text":"我覺得這個是發生問題了嘛"},{"start":173.74,"end":176.54,"text":"你今天做了一個侵害是比零檢更高"},{"start":176.54,"end":181.74,"text":"但是你自己所做到的卻比零檢在市制上面要求的更低"},{"start":181.74,"end":183.54,"text":"那這個就有一個很大問題啊"},{"start":183.54,"end":188.04,"text":"好那今天市長你剛剛講的這個警察他依據他調查權去調查"},{"start":188.04,"end":189.24,"text":"市長講的沒錯"},{"start":189.24,"end":191.84,"text":"但是我今天不是在討論有沒有調查權"},{"start":191.84,"end":193.84,"text":"而是調查權的界線在哪裡"},{"start":194.04,"end":196.04,"text":"警察可不可以濫用調查權"},{"start":196.04,"end":197.74,"text":"我愛怎麼樣就怎麼樣"},{"start":197.74,"end":200.54,"text":"我愛去你家問你什麼我就去你家問你什麼"},{"start":200.54,"end":201.74,"text":"我今天在講的是這個"},{"start":201.74,"end":206.84,"text":"我想市長我們以前還同地檢署的檢察官同仁嘛"},{"start":206.84,"end":210.04,"text":"所以我想我們的法律見解不會差太遠"},{"start":210.04,"end":212.54,"text":"就是這個東西其實警察是有問題的"},{"start":212.54,"end":214.54,"text":"你跑到人家家去做這些事情"},{"start":214.54,"end":216.54,"text":"我覺得我是會打一個問號"},{"start":216.54,"end":218.54,"text":"那市長我想請問一下"},{"start":218.54,"end":220.94,"text":"沒有報檢察官指揮"},{"start":220.94,"end":222.64000000000001,"text":"沒有搜索票沒有拘票"},{"start":222.64,"end":227.14,"text":"沒有通知書直接叫跑到人家家說要做筆錄"},{"start":227.14,"end":229.14,"text":"還問他願不願意下架"},{"start":229.14,"end":233.14,"text":"你認為這個有沒有超出證據保全的範圍啊"},{"start":233.14,"end":235.64,"text":"我想那個警察他職權的行使"},{"start":235.64,"end":239.14,"text":"有警察他們有一定的那個SOP啊"},{"start":239.14,"end":243.14,"text":"那在沒有這個尚未報請檢察官指揮之前"},{"start":243.14,"end":246.14,"text":"那警方他們都會依照他們職權行使的行使"},{"start":246.14,"end":248.64,"text":"不是啦市長如果你是承辦檢察官"},{"start":248.64,"end":250.64,"text":"你看到警察在你的案子這樣做"},{"start":250.64,"end":252.64,"text":"你會不會跟他做你不可以這樣做"},{"start":252.64,"end":257.14,"text":"那個就是這個案件現在已經報請北檢指揮了嗎"},{"start":257.14,"end":259.14,"text":"不不不他當時沒有"},{"start":259.14,"end":261.14,"text":"如果你今天收到一個案子"},{"start":261.14,"end":263.64,"text":"發現警察是這麼做"},{"start":263.64,"end":265.64,"text":"您是承辦檢察官"},{"start":265.64,"end":267.64,"text":"你會認同警察的這個做法嗎"},{"start":267.64,"end":270.64,"text":"因為這個案件我們當時並沒有在場"},{"start":270.64,"end":272.14,"text":"我們也沒有看到全券"},{"start":272.14,"end":274.14,"text":"到底警方當時是用什麼的行事"},{"start":274.14,"end":275.64,"text":"不是啦我沒有問個案啦"},{"start":275.64,"end":278.14,"text":"好啦市長我大概了解喔"},{"start":278.14,"end":280.14,"text":"可能你也不方便回答這個問題啊"},{"start":280.14,"end":281.64,"text":"但我必須講一個"},{"start":281.64,"end":283.14,"text":"我六我今天是承辦檢察官"},{"start":283.14,"end":285.64,"text":"一個警察在沒有檢察官指揮"},{"start":285.64,"end":287.14,"text":"沒有搜索票沒有拘票"},{"start":287.14,"end":289.14,"text":"沒有任何通知書的情況下"},{"start":289.14,"end":291.14,"text":"就跑到人家家去做這些事情"},{"start":291.14,"end":292.64,"text":"基本上我想全國的司法官"},{"start":292.64,"end":294.64,"text":"沒有人會接受這樣的做法"},{"start":294.64,"end":297.64,"text":"因為這樣就回到那種集權國家啦"},{"start":297.64,"end":299.64,"text":"警察愛到你家幹嘛就幹嘛"},{"start":299.64,"end":304.64,"text":"反正我就是一個比你高一等的權限嘛"},{"start":304.64,"end":306.14,"text":"我到你家幹什麼"},{"start":306.14,"end":307.64,"text":"那你就等著害怕而已"},{"start":307.64,"end":309.64,"text":"我想這個不是我們願意看到"},{"start":309.64,"end":312.14,"text":"而且你看刑事訴訟法175條第四項"},{"start":312.14,"end":314.14,"text":"傳喚一般證人"},{"start":314.14,"end":316.14,"text":"都還要求傳票至少要"},{"start":316.14,"end":319.14,"text":"在到場旗日前24小時就要送達"},{"start":319.14,"end":320.64,"text":"連刑事訴訟法對於證人"},{"start":320.64,"end":322.14,"text":"都有這樣的保護"},{"start":322.14,"end":325.14,"text":"更何況今天也沒有人告他啊"},{"start":325.14,"end":327.64,"text":"也沒有任何犯罪事實出來啊"},{"start":327.64,"end":329.64,"text":"那他到底在刑事訴訟法裡面"},{"start":329.64,"end":330.64,"text":"他的規類是什麼"},{"start":330.64,"end":332.14,"text":"我想他應該不是被告"},{"start":332.14,"end":334.14,"text":"那你竟然可以去做這個事情"},{"start":334.14,"end":335.64,"text":"我個人不認同啦"},{"start":335.64,"end":337.64,"text":"否則刑事訴訟法175條第四項"},{"start":338.14,"end":341.14,"text":"對於證人的這個規定也等於是虛設嘛"},{"start":341.14,"end":343.14,"text":"我愛怎麼樣我當警察愛怎麼樣"},{"start":343.14,"end":346.14,"text":"因為我一直在保護警察保障警察的權益"},{"start":346.14,"end":348.14,"text":"但為同樣的不能接受警察"},{"start":348.14,"end":350.14,"text":"濫權做這個事情"},{"start":350.14,"end":352.14,"text":"因為我認為這個對於刑事訴訟法的"},{"start":352.14,"end":356.14,"text":"程序正當性的保障其實是超過的啦"},{"start":356.14,"end":359.14,"text":"更何況說當時就一個老人家在家"},{"start":359.14,"end":362.14,"text":"那甚至他問警察問他說"},{"start":362.14,"end":364.14,"text":"是誰要我下架"},{"start":364.14,"end":365.14,"text":"有人提告嗎"},{"start":365.14,"end":366.64,"text":"警察其實是答不出來"},{"start":366.64,"end":371.14,"text":"當場他連自由犯罪案遊也講不出來"},{"start":371.14,"end":374.14,"text":"他是後來才擠了五個法條出來"},{"start":374.14,"end":376.14,"text":"所以這個東西我覺得都不妥"},{"start":376.14,"end":378.14,"text":"你今天到人家家去執行公務"},{"start":378.14,"end":380.14,"text":"就你連他犯了什麼你都講不出來"},{"start":380.14,"end":382.14,"text":"其實這個是很離譜啦"},{"start":382.14,"end":384.14,"text":"所以簡單的講這個案子"},{"start":384.14,"end":386.14,"text":"當初根本沒有理由"},{"start":386.14,"end":388.14,"text":"你就直接去查水表"},{"start":388.14,"end":389.64,"text":"我想很悲哀的事情"},{"start":389.64,"end":391.64,"text":"我學生時候我跟著林三田教授去"},{"start":391.64,"end":393.64,"text":"為了刑法100條上街頭"},{"start":393.64,"end":395.64,"text":"為了台灣人民的言論自由"},{"start":395.64,"end":398.14,"text":"為了讓那些思想犯能夠回到台灣"},{"start":398.14,"end":400.14,"text":"陪著林三田教授上街頭去抗爭"},{"start":400.14,"end":402.14,"text":"結果幾十年過去了"},{"start":402.14,"end":404.14,"text":"我們台灣越活越回去"},{"start":404.14,"end":406.14,"text":"所以這個事情我是覺得"},{"start":406.14,"end":408.14,"text":"不能讓人忍受啦"},{"start":408.14,"end":410.14,"text":"自稱保障言論自由"},{"start":410.14,"end":412.14,"text":"自稱動不動都拿鄭南榮出來說嘴的人"},{"start":412.14,"end":415.14,"text":"但是連最基本的言論自由"},{"start":415.14,"end":417.14,"text":"都保障不了"},{"start":417.14,"end":419.14,"text":"還可以拿出來這樣子講"},{"start":419.14,"end":421.14,"text":"我是不太能接受這樣"},{"start":421.14,"end":423.14,"text":"那跟我們當初學生的時候理想"},{"start":423.14,"end":425.14,"text":"也差太遠了"},{"start":425.64,"end":428.64,"text":"當把恐懼送到這些無辜人家的客廳"},{"start":428.64,"end":431.64,"text":"然後網友按一個發送鍵之前"},{"start":431.64,"end":432.64,"text":"都要感到害怕"},{"start":432.64,"end":433.64,"text":"這個不對啦"},{"start":433.64,"end":435.14,"text":"這不叫做民主國家"},{"start":435.14,"end":437.14,"text":"已經走向極權國家了"},{"start":437.14,"end":438.64,"text":"而這個也沒有依法辦案"},{"start":438.64,"end":440.64,"text":"警察到現在他所作所為"},{"start":440.64,"end":443.14,"text":"都是都有問題沒有任何依據"},{"start":443.14,"end":445.14,"text":"那這個是國家的恐嚇"},{"start":445.14,"end":447.64,"text":"那有時候我就看到這個狀況"},{"start":447.64,"end":448.64,"text":"我就覺得喔"},{"start":448.64,"end":450.64,"text":"最近包括上次什麼陳菊"},{"start":450.64,"end":451.64,"text":"走了嗎那句話"},{"start":451.64,"end":453.14,"text":"警察立刻火速上門"},{"start":453.14,"end":454.64,"text":"包括這一次的事情"},{"start":455.14,"end":456.64,"text":"對人民創作的影片"},{"start":456.64,"end":458.64,"text":"警察火速敲門"},{"start":458.64,"end":460.64,"text":"但是人民真正害怕跟我"},{"start":460.64,"end":462.64,"text":"我痛恨的半死"},{"start":462.64,"end":465.64,"text":"讓我的爸老爸老媽"},{"start":465.64,"end":468.14,"text":"讓我的小孩吃到這種自來油的"},{"start":468.14,"end":470.14,"text":"這個事情政府拖了一個月"},{"start":470.14,"end":471.14,"text":"卻給不出答案"},{"start":471.14,"end":472.14,"text":"但另外呢"},{"start":472.14,"end":473.64,"text":"弄了一個Cousel的影片"},{"start":473.64,"end":475.64,"text":"我馬上到你家登門去查"},{"start":475.64,"end":477.14,"text":"這是很好笑而且是"},{"start":477.14,"end":479.14,"text":"很諷刺的一件事情"},{"start":480.14,"end":482.14,"text":"我們都吃很多自來油啦"},{"start":482.14,"end":484.14,"text":"因為我們根本無從選擇"},{"start":484.64,"end":486.14,"text":"這麼多流到市面上"},{"start":486.14,"end":488.14,"text":"這才是讓我們氣憤的事情"},{"start":489.14,"end":490.64,"text":"那北檢這次分案"},{"start":490.64,"end":493.14,"text":"我是用刑法的準時文書"},{"start":494.14,"end":495.14,"text":"但是呢我看"},{"start":495.14,"end":497.14,"text":"但是最高法院一路以來的見解"},{"start":497.14,"end":498.64,"text":"準時文書它必須要"},{"start":498.64,"end":500.64,"text":"第一個證明法律關係或"},{"start":500.64,"end":502.14,"text":"社會活動事實"},{"start":502.14,"end":504.14,"text":"第二個要有明確的民意人"},{"start":504.64,"end":506.14,"text":"我就說我不想去討論個案"},{"start":506.14,"end":507.64,"text":"但是至少在這個個案"},{"start":507.64,"end":509.64,"text":"並沒有講是誰"},{"start":509.64,"end":512.64,"text":"所以欠缺最高法院的民意人的這個概念"},{"start":512.64,"end":514.64,"text":"第二個它陳述的是一個"},{"start":514.64,"end":516.64,"text":"事實以及科學上面的依據"},{"start":516.64,"end":518.64,"text":"這跟法律關係或社會的"},{"start":518.64,"end":520.64,"text":"犯罪活動事實也沒有關聯性"},{"start":520.64,"end":522.64,"text":"所以這是讓我很難過說"},{"start":522.64,"end":525.64,"text":"為什麼今天國家公器會"},{"start":525.64,"end":527.64,"text":"用到今天這個樣子"},{"start":529.64,"end":532.64,"text":"所以我想如果今天開場"},{"start":532.64,"end":537.64,"text":"這個自稱虛構的一個政治奉賜的這個"},{"start":537.64,"end":539.64,"text":"這個東西都可以扣上為照文書"},{"start":539.64,"end":541.64,"text":"那我們國內非常多"},{"start":541.64,"end":544.64,"text":"第二次創作Cruzal的這些年輕人"},{"start":544.64,"end":546.64,"text":"都完蛋了都可能要被抓去關"},{"start":548.64,"end":550.64,"text":"那個警政組上次報告還提到說"},{"start":550.64,"end":552.64,"text":"誹謗罪這是告出哪一論之罪"},{"start":553.64,"end":555.64,"text":"告訴你沒有人告那請問一下"},{"start":555.64,"end":559.64,"text":"市長北檢會不會傳喚賴總統來問他"},{"start":559.64,"end":560.64,"text":"要不要提告"},{"start":560.64,"end":563.64,"text":"這個是北檢他依法偵查個案的"},{"start":563.64,"end":565.64,"text":"一個職權行使我們都會予以承受"},{"start":565.64,"end":567.64,"text":"好謝謝那市長我想我大概也猜到"},{"start":567.64,"end":568.64,"text":"市長會這麼說"},{"start":568.64,"end":570.64,"text":"所以今天我要講的重點"},{"start":570.64,"end":571.64,"text":"就是在這個地方"},{"start":571.64,"end":573.64,"text":"北檢會不會傳總統我們不知道"},{"start":573.64,"end":575.64,"text":"但是告訴全能就是總統"},{"start":575.64,"end":576.64,"text":"我也不知道他要不要提告"},{"start":576.64,"end":577.64,"text":"那一個沒有人提告"},{"start":577.64,"end":579.64,"text":"一個找不到犯罪事實的東西"},{"start":579.64,"end":581.64,"text":"就警察去上門去做這個事情"},{"start":581.64,"end":584.64,"text":"最近有很多那個自稱是法律人"},{"start":584.64,"end":586.64,"text":"法律專家或是有律師資格"},{"start":586.64,"end":589.64,"text":"但是說的一堆唯心之論嘛"},{"start":590.64,"end":593.64,"text":"如果說譬如說有人就自稱是律師"},{"start":593.64,"end":595.64,"text":"在網路上面今天用總統的聲音"},{"start":595.64,"end":596.64,"text":"這樣可以嗎"},{"start":596.64,"end":597.64,"text":"這個為什麼沒有構成犯罪"},{"start":597.64,"end":600.64,"text":"事實上在我國就沒有構成犯罪"},{"start":600.64,"end":603.64,"text":"今天必須要是你用誰的聲音"},{"start":603.64,"end":605.64,"text":"告訴大家我是這個人"},{"start":605.64,"end":607.64,"text":"而且從事社會的犯罪活動"},{"start":607.64,"end":610.64,"text":"這兩個要件加起來才會構成犯罪"},{"start":610.64,"end":613.64,"text":"並不是說我今天用AI去生成了"},{"start":613.64,"end":616.64,"text":"某一個聲音去講一個社會事實"},{"start":616.64,"end":619.64,"text":"或者是一個那個科學上的依據"},{"start":619.64,"end":620.64,"text":"那就構成犯罪"},{"start":620.64,"end":621.64,"text":"兩個東西完全不一樣"},{"start":621.64,"end":623.64,"text":"但是有非常多自稱法律人"},{"start":623.64,"end":625.64,"text":"完全跳脫這個法律規定"},{"start":625.64,"end":628.64,"text":"就在位以披著法律專業人的"},{"start":628.64,"end":630.64,"text":"這個東西來亂帶風向"},{"start":630.64,"end":631.64,"text":"這我不太能接受"},{"start":631.64,"end":634.64,"text":"如果今天這個聲音跟某一個人相像"},{"start":634.64,"end":635.64,"text":"就會構成犯罪"},{"start":635.64,"end":637.64,"text":"那我每一個AI生成的聲音"},{"start":637.64,"end":638.64,"text":"我必須去查"},{"start":638.64,"end":640.64,"text":"跟這個地球上83億人口"},{"start":640.64,"end":641.64,"text":"有沒有跟誰像"},{"start":641.64,"end":643.64,"text":"如果跟誰像就會構成犯罪"},{"start":643.64,"end":645.64,"text":"那我必須查跟這83億人口"},{"start":645.64,"end":646.64,"text":"有沒有跟任何一個人像"},{"start":646.64,"end":648.64,"text":"萬一跟誰像那完蛋"},{"start":648.64,"end":649.64,"text":"我就構成犯罪"},{"start":649.64,"end":651.64,"text":"所以這個是很瘋狂的事"},{"start":651.64,"end":653.64,"text":"所以我國的法律規定很清楚"},{"start":653.64,"end":655.64,"text":"民意人 社會的犯罪活動"},{"start":655.64,"end":658.64,"text":"兩個加起來才會構成一個犯罪事實"},{"start":658.64,"end":659.64,"text":"所以過往有人用那個"},{"start":659.64,"end":661.64,"text":"我覺得那個什麼"},{"start":661.64,"end":663.64,"text":"譬如說股市操盤的名師"},{"start":663.64,"end":665.64,"text":"謝金河等等的"},{"start":665.64,"end":666.64,"text":"用他們的名義"},{"start":666.64,"end":667.64,"text":"用他們的聲音"},{"start":667.64,"end":669.64,"text":"來叫大家去投資"},{"start":669.64,"end":670.64,"text":"那這個就會構成犯罪"},{"start":670.64,"end":671.64,"text":"這個絕對沒問題"},{"start":671.64,"end":672.64,"text":"我也支持"},{"start":672.64,"end":675.64,"text":"但是今天在本案我真的是看不到"},{"start":675.64,"end":677.64,"text":"所以我必須要跟大家報告"},{"start":677.64,"end":679.64,"text":"我覺得這終於充斥很多"},{"start":679.64,"end":680.64,"text":"自稱的法律人"},{"start":680.64,"end":682.64,"text":"在那邊帶假的法律見解"},{"start":682.64,"end":683.64,"text":"在亂帶風向"},{"start":683.64,"end":685.64,"text":"這其實很"},{"start":685.64,"end":688.64,"text":"我是真的我是不太能接受"},{"start":688.64,"end":691.64,"text":"那更何況你看過去"},{"start":691.64,"end":694.64,"text":"其實12年前那個蔡英文跟賴清德"},{"start":694.64,"end":696.64,"text":"他有一個假的影片對談"},{"start":696.64,"end":698.64,"text":"要大家投資加密貨幣"},{"start":698.64,"end":700.64,"text":"那個東西我覺得"},{"start":700.64,"end":703.64,"text":"這個才是造成民眾財產損害的"},{"start":703.64,"end":704.64,"text":"這個申威案件"},{"start":704.64,"end":705.64,"text":"這個才是"},{"start":705.64,"end":707.64,"text":"現在這一次的這個"},{"start":707.64,"end":708.64,"text":"有的我真的看不出來"},{"start":708.64,"end":709.64,"text":"有的我真的看不出來"},{"start":709.64,"end":710.64,"text":"第二個就是"},{"start":710.64,"end":714.64,"text":"高官假學歷偽造文書的那個告發"},{"start":714.64,"end":716.64,"text":"像之前114年6月"},{"start":716.64,"end":717.64,"text":"有律師告發"},{"start":717.64,"end":718.64,"text":"駐英國公使"},{"start":718.64,"end":720.64,"text":"那個江亞奇的這個案子"},{"start":720.64,"end":722.64,"text":"其實到現在查了一年多"},{"start":722.64,"end":723.64,"text":"也都沒有進度"},{"start":723.64,"end":725.64,"text":"像那個東西才是真正構成犯罪"},{"start":725.64,"end":727.64,"text":"但我看到的國家機器"},{"start":727.64,"end":729.64,"text":"都沒有真正在查"},{"start":729.64,"end":731.64,"text":"反而是這一次的這個影片"},{"start":731.64,"end":734.64,"text":"我看到的是動員了刑事局的"},{"start":734.64,"end":735.64,"text":"鑑識工具"},{"start":735.64,"end":736.64,"text":"內政部的專案報告"},{"start":736.64,"end":737.64,"text":"北檢的他之案"},{"start":737.64,"end":739.64,"text":"一整週的政治攻防"},{"start":739.64,"end":740.64,"text":"這次卻這麼積極"},{"start":740.64,"end":741.64,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":741.64,"end":742.64,"text":"我們面對自來有的問題"},{"start":742.64,"end":743.64,"text":"到現在一個多月了"},{"start":743.64,"end":744.64,"text":"還沒有人告訴我"},{"start":744.64,"end":746.64,"text":"鑑定的期程在哪裡"},{"start":746.64,"end":748.64,"text":"所以這是我還是沒有辦法"},{"start":748.64,"end":750.64,"text":"接受的一個事情"},{"start":750.64,"end":751.64,"text":"跟委員報告相關的案件"},{"start":751.64,"end":753.64,"text":"其實檢察官都有在偵犯"},{"start":753.64,"end":754.64,"text":"不管是毒油案件"},{"start":754.64,"end":756.64,"text":"或者是剛剛您提到的這個個案"},{"start":756.64,"end":758.64,"text":"其實檢察官都有在做偵犯"},{"start":758.64,"end":759.64,"text":"那告訴哪一論罪"},{"start":759.64,"end":762.64,"text":"他的告訴只是一個程序的發動權"},{"start":762.64,"end":763.64,"text":"但是如果有犯罪嫌疑的話"},{"start":763.64,"end":765.64,"text":"檢察官也是要來處理的"},{"start":765.64,"end":766.64,"text":"就像偷拍案件的話"},{"start":766.64,"end":767.64,"text":"即使還沒有找到被害人"},{"start":767.64,"end":768.64,"text":"提出告訴之前"},{"start":768.64,"end":770.64,"text":"檢察官也必須要先去診判"},{"start":770.64,"end":771.64,"text":"這個沒有問題"},{"start":771.64,"end":773.64,"text":"它就訴追條件的一種嘛"},{"start":773.64,"end":774.64,"text":"能不能起訴嘛"},{"start":774.64,"end":776.64,"text":"但是我剛剛從頭到尾的論述是"},{"start":776.64,"end":780.64,"text":"警察的發動完全不對"},{"start":780.64,"end":783.64,"text":"警察沒有拘票 搜索票"},{"start":783.64,"end":784.64,"text":"沒有檢察官的指揮"},{"start":784.64,"end":785.64,"text":"沒有通知書"},{"start":785.64,"end":788.64,"text":"跑到你家去叫你做這些事情"},{"start":788.64,"end":789.64,"text":"我想正節點在這裡"},{"start":789.64,"end":790.64,"text":"而不是後面"},{"start":790.64,"end":792.64,"text":"訴追條件有沒有完備"},{"start":792.64,"end":794.64,"text":"我想這邊跟你說明一下"},{"start":794.64,"end":797.64,"text":"那後面我會給你"},{"start":797.64,"end":798.64,"text":"一時間到了"},{"start":798.64,"end":800.64,"text":"我想我還是跟你講一個"},{"start":800.64,"end":802.64,"text":"那個台唐的部分"},{"start":802.64,"end":804.64,"text":"因為您是法律事務司"},{"start":804.64,"end":807.64,"text":"也是行政院裡面的法律顧問"},{"start":807.64,"end":808.64,"text":"不是法律事務司"},{"start":808.64,"end":809.64,"text":"是法律事務司 不好意思"},{"start":809.64,"end":812.64,"text":"那個法律的顧問"},{"start":812.64,"end":815.64,"text":"也是行政院有什麼問題"},{"start":815.64,"end":816.64,"text":"一定也是請教你們"},{"start":816.64,"end":818.64,"text":"但是我要講的就是說"},{"start":818.64,"end":819.64,"text":"因為我們目前"},{"start":819.64,"end":821.64,"text":"我們的部長一直出來說"},{"start":821.64,"end":822.64,"text":"部長一直出來說"},{"start":822.64,"end":826.64,"text":"這個原料不是食品"},{"start":826.64,"end":827.64,"text":"所以他沒有通報的義務"},{"start":827.64,"end":829.64,"text":"就是講到那個台唐的部分"},{"start":829.64,"end":831.64,"text":"但是我一直覺得很奇怪"},{"start":831.64,"end":832.64,"text":"因為我們食品安全衛生法"},{"start":832.64,"end":833.64,"text":"第三條第一款"},{"start":833.64,"end":834.64,"text":"它的食品的定義就是"},{"start":834.64,"end":837.64,"text":"包括提供人飲食"},{"start":837.64,"end":840.64,"text":"用作加工調理食品之物品"},{"start":840.64,"end":842.64,"text":"或其原料"},{"start":842.64,"end":843.64,"text":"那我不懂"},{"start":843.64,"end":845.64,"text":"部長難道沒有看到"},{"start":845.64,"end":846.64,"text":"食品安全衛生法第三條"},{"start":846.64,"end":848.64,"text":"第一款的規定嗎"},{"start":848.64,"end":849.64,"text":"我搞不懂"},{"start":849.64,"end":850.64,"text":"所以這部分可能要麻煩"},{"start":850.64,"end":851.64,"text":"因為我今天是法律專家"},{"start":851.64,"end":852.64,"text":"可不可以翻一下法條"},{"start":852.64,"end":855.64,"text":"給行政院的長官看一下"},{"start":855.64,"end":858.64,"text":"所以原料它本身就是"},{"start":858.64,"end":861.64,"text":"食管法的定義的食品的內容"},{"start":861.64,"end":862.64,"text":"我不知道為什麼可以把"},{"start":862.64,"end":863.64,"text":"食品跟原料"},{"start":863.64,"end":864.64,"text":"做這樣子的區分"},{"start":864.64,"end":866.64,"text":"是不是只是為了幫特定能"},{"start":866.64,"end":868.64,"text":"講講話嗎"},{"start":868.64,"end":870.64,"text":"那食安是全民的問題"},{"start":870.64,"end":872.64,"text":"那同條第七款"},{"start":872.64,"end":874.64,"text":"它對食品業者的定義"},{"start":874.64,"end":875.64,"text":"還有第七條第五項"},{"start":875.64,"end":876.64,"text":"也都講得很清楚"},{"start":876.64,"end":878.64,"text":"都有說有這些問題的時候"},{"start":878.64,"end":880.64,"text":"就要通報直轄市"},{"start":880.64,"end":882.64,"text":"還有縣市的主管機關"},{"start":882.64,"end":883.64,"text":"所以這個本來"},{"start":883.64,"end":885.64,"text":"你就沒有去分什麼"},{"start":885.64,"end":886.64,"text":"食品跟原料"},{"start":886.64,"end":887.64,"text":"然後一個需要通報"},{"start":887.64,"end":889.64,"text":"另外一個就沒有通報義務"},{"start":889.64,"end":891.64,"text":"這個我沒有辦法理解"},{"start":891.64,"end":894.64,"text":"然後像我們的老同事陳宏達主任"},{"start":894.64,"end":896.64,"text":"其實他講的那個"},{"start":896.64,"end":897.64,"text":"他是說"},{"start":897.64,"end":898.64,"text":"他就說"},{"start":898.64,"end":901.64,"text":"這個通報是法律明定義的義務"},{"start":901.64,"end":903.64,"text":"不是行政機關的恩惠"},{"start":903.64,"end":905.64,"text":"所以他也認為說"},{"start":905.64,"end":907.64,"text":"這個衛福部的這個說法"},{"start":907.64,"end":909.64,"text":"其實他也沒有辦法接受"},{"start":909.64,"end":910.64,"text":"更何況食安法寫的是"},{"start":910.64,"end":912.64,"text":"有危害衛生安全之虞"},{"start":912.64,"end":915.64,"text":"他不是說危害已完全證實"},{"start":915.64,"end":917.64,"text":"他不是一個食害犯"},{"start":917.64,"end":918.64,"text":"那我的老師"},{"start":918.64,"end":920.64,"text":"那個台大公會的江常人教授也說"},{"start":920.64,"end":923.64,"text":"他說如果台大沒有法定通報義務的話"},{"start":923.64,"end":926.64,"text":"原料超標不用通報的話"},{"start":926.64,"end":928.64,"text":"他等於是把我國的食安"},{"start":928.64,"end":931.64,"text":"開了一個致命的大後門"},{"start":931.64,"end":934.64,"text":"我們以後的食安都完蛋了"},{"start":934.64,"end":936.64,"text":"所以這個是您必須要"},{"start":936.64,"end":939.64,"text":"跟行政院那邊或跟衛福部長"},{"start":939.64,"end":940.64,"text":"跟他說明一下"},{"start":940.64,"end":943.64,"text":"食安法不是這樣規定的"},{"start":943.64,"end":944.64,"text":"那跟委員報告"},{"start":944.64,"end":946.64,"text":"您剛提到那兩個法條"},{"start":946.64,"end":947.64,"text":"在第三條裡面"},{"start":947.64,"end":948.64,"text":"他規範的是食品"},{"start":948.64,"end":949.64,"text":"在第七條裡面"},{"start":949.64,"end":950.64,"text":"他規範的是產品"},{"start":950.64,"end":953.64,"text":"那兩者他的規範這個標的"},{"start":953.64,"end":954.64,"text":"是不是一樣"},{"start":954.64,"end":956.64,"text":"這個是要由那個衛福部他們"},{"start":956.64,"end":957.64,"text":"來做一個說明"},{"start":957.64,"end":958.64,"text":"好這個不是"},{"start":958.64,"end":960.64,"text":"但是你幫我麻煩你們跟他看法"},{"start":960.64,"end":961.64,"text":"更何況我跟你講"},{"start":961.64,"end":963.64,"text":"您剛講的是法律"},{"start":963.64,"end":964.64,"text":"衛福部一三年"},{"start":964.64,"end":966.64,"text":"食品業者自主管理說明會"},{"start":966.64,"end":967.64,"text":"就有提到"},{"start":967.64,"end":970.64,"text":"針對原料異常應主動通報"},{"start":970.64,"end":972.64,"text":"113年蘇丹紅事件的時候"},{"start":972.64,"end":973.64,"text":"行政院會議記錄裡講"},{"start":973.64,"end":976.64,"text":"原料異常應主動通報"},{"start":976.64,"end":977.64,"text":"這也都行政院的"},{"start":977.64,"end":978.64,"text":"我剛第一個講的"},{"start":978.64,"end":979.64,"text":"第一個範疇是法律"},{"start":979.64,"end":982.64,"text":"第二個範疇是行政院自己講的"},{"start":982.64,"end":984.64,"text":"所以不管是食安法"},{"start":984.64,"end":986.64,"text":"不管食安法第七條第五項"},{"start":986.64,"end":990.64,"text":"或是113年114年的官方解釋"},{"start":990.64,"end":991.64,"text":"都包含到原料"},{"start":991.64,"end":992.64,"text":"那我不知道為什麼"},{"start":992.64,"end":993.64,"text":"我不知道為什麼"},{"start":993.64,"end":994.64,"text":"115年8月以後"},{"start":994.64,"end":995.64,"text":"碰到國營事業的台糖"},{"start":995.64,"end":997.64,"text":"就變不包含原料"},{"start":997.64,"end":999.64,"text":"所以變得不是法律啦"},{"start":999.64,"end":1000.64,"text":"是人變了啦"},{"start":1000.64,"end":1002.64,"text":"所以這個部分我說真的"},{"start":1002.64,"end":1004.64,"text":"這真的是沒辦法接受"},{"start":1004.64,"end":1007.64,"text":"我說好最後30秒不好意思"},{"start":1007.64,"end":1008.64,"text":"我今天質詢的兩件事情"},{"start":1008.64,"end":1010.64,"text":"其實講的都是同一句話"},{"start":1010.64,"end":1012.64,"text":"由不得你這個案子"},{"start":1012.64,"end":1013.64,"text":"是小題大作"},{"start":1013.64,"end":1015.64,"text":"先射箭再劃吧"},{"start":1015.64,"end":1018.64,"text":"台糖自由案是大事化小"},{"start":1018.64,"end":1021.64,"text":"自創法條幫高官護航"},{"start":1021.64,"end":1023.64,"text":"所以同一個政府"},{"start":1023.64,"end":1024.6399999999999,"text":"同一個法律"},{"start":1024.6399999999999,"end":1026.6399999999999,"text":"一邊查的比誰都快"},{"start":1026.6399999999999,"end":1027.6399999999999,"text":"一邊拖的比誰都慢"},{"start":1027.6399999999999,"end":1029.6399999999999,"text":"我看到的是這樣"},{"start":1029.6399999999999,"end":1033.6399999999999,"text":"然後這個一個本篇皮的動畫影片"},{"start":1033.6399999999999,"end":1035.6399999999999,"text":"用了刑事局建設工具"},{"start":1035.6399999999999,"end":1036.6399999999999,"text":"內政部專案報告"},{"start":1036.6399999999999,"end":1038.6399999999999,"text":"北檢他之案"},{"start":1038.6399999999999,"end":1040.6399999999999,"text":"然後真正查自由案的期程"},{"start":1040.6399999999999,"end":1042.6399999999999,"text":"我說真的到現在都看不到"},{"start":1042.6399999999999,"end":1044.6399999999999,"text":"所以連這個到最後"},{"start":1044.6399999999999,"end":1046.6399999999999,"text":"連跟台糖有關的"},{"start":1046.6399999999999,"end":1048.6399999999999,"text":"這個所謂的食品的原料"},{"start":1048.6399999999999,"end":1050.6399999999999,"text":"的解釋都變成是"},{"start":1050.64,"end":1051.64,"text":"發現有自來物"},{"start":1051.64,"end":1052.64,"text":"也沒有通報義務"},{"start":1052.64,"end":1054.64,"text":"我說這不可思議"},{"start":1054.64,"end":1056.64,"text":"那個市長"},{"start":1056.64,"end":1058.64,"text":"就跟市長報告"},{"start":1058.64,"end":1059.64,"text":"因為我們以前是同事"},{"start":1059.64,"end":1062.64,"text":"我還是一個那個想法"},{"start":1062.64,"end":1065.64,"text":"標準不應該變"},{"start":1065.64,"end":1066.64,"text":"SOP也不應該變"},{"start":1066.64,"end":1067.64,"text":"還有一個就是"},{"start":1067.64,"end":1070.64,"text":"讀書人要有讀書人的風骨"},{"start":1070.64,"end":1072.64,"text":"我希望全國的政務官"},{"start":1072.64,"end":1073.64,"text":"都能夠秉持這個觀念"},{"start":1073.64,"end":1075.64,"text":"讀書人要有讀書人的風骨"},{"start":1075.64,"end":1077.64,"text":"好謝謝市長"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}