{"error":false,"id":["170816"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170816,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170816","日期":"2026-08-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-35-29","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":29,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-05T09:59:27+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-05T10:08:28+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:01","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d053bb9b075f6aeacac1bd9df954120b958b713431805b223b469cab67bfcba168389693bd1b95a25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"沈伯洋","委員發言時間":"09:59:27 - 10:08:28","會議時間":"2026-08-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第29次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「因應敵情與灰色地帶威脅升高，國軍如何強化官兵精神戰力建構及心理韌性作為」，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.63846875,"end":2.73096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.73096875,"end":2.7815937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.7478437500000004,"end":3.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.56096875,"end":10.57784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.57784375,"end":11.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.792843750000003,"end":17.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.37409375,"end":90.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.51471875,"end":92.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.06284375,"end":93.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.97409375000001,"end":99.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.47534375000001,"end":104.30159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.48721875000001,"end":105.39846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.90471875,"end":106.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.68096875,"end":139.41846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.34221875,"end":114.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.43909375000001,"end":115.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.70846875000001,"end":120.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.46909375,"end":141.13971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.29159375,"end":143.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.95784375,"end":150.74159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.39659375000002,"end":144.44721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.92721875,"end":155.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.25971875000002,"end":172.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.48659375,"end":163.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.05034375000002,"end":173.28659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.47221875000002,"end":201.87284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.95846875,"end":194.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.26096875000002,"end":294.61784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.23971875,"end":284.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.71909375,"end":295.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.05221875,"end":296.35596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.06471875,"end":297.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.06034375,"end":313.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.94096875,"end":306.41346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":313.14659375,"end":379.78596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.31346875,"end":385.60784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.95471875000004,"end":379.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.20784375000005,"end":380.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.59096875,"end":393.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.87659375000004,"end":430.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.27159375,"end":481.81221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.38596875,"end":501.45471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.63846875,"end":487.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.46909375,"end":490.94159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":501.85971875,"end":510.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":504.74534375,"end":505.23471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":510.02721875000003,"end":540.5203437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":540.80721875,"end":541.51596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":3,"text":"謝謝主席,有請部長,謝謝"},{"start":3,"end":4,"text":"請郭部長"},{"start":10,"end":12,"text":"沈委員好"},{"start":12,"end":17,"text":"部長好,剛剛其實有提到,今天是漢光的第一天"},{"start":17,"end":20,"text":"所以這個,我是覺得今天,我很快一點"},{"start":20,"end":25,"text":"因為我覺得漢光應該是對國防部來講是非常重要的一個日子"},{"start":25,"end":28,"text":"今天這一個專報我想說就儘速的進行"},{"start":28,"end":31,"text":"那第一個就是我想先問一下"},{"start":31,"end":34,"text":"因為第一個當然漢光的這個前夕"},{"start":34,"end":37,"text":"大概七月底的時候我們可以看到"},{"start":37,"end":42,"text":"這個中共他們有這一個他們的國防部有兩則新聞"},{"start":42,"end":44,"text":"一個就在講說"},{"start":44,"end":48,"text":"這一個國軍寧願賠錢也提前退伍"},{"start":48,"end":50,"text":"然後說全民防衛是無人賣命"},{"start":50,"end":55,"text":"那另外一個就在講說這個網路降速是製造戰爭焦慮"},{"start":55,"end":57,"text":"我們先不管他講的這些內容為何"},{"start":57,"end":59,"text":"很明顯的就是他在針對漢光"},{"start":59,"end":63,"text":"就是說今天這一個漢光這一個準備了以後"},{"start":63,"end":66,"text":"他們就要製造一些反面的一些消息"},{"start":66,"end":68,"text":"那這些消息其實我覺得都會有"},{"start":68,"end":71,"text":"一個是動搖軍心,就是第一則"},{"start":71,"end":74,"text":"那第二個網路降速,這個是他想要動搖民心"},{"start":74,"end":77,"text":"那台灣的媒體也都把他報導出來了"},{"start":77,"end":80,"text":"所以我在想說就針對像這樣的事情"},{"start":80,"end":82,"text":"目前因為漢光今天是第一天"},{"start":82,"end":84,"text":"那在這個第一天之前"},{"start":84,"end":86,"text":"國防部是怎麼去應對"},{"start":86,"end":90,"text":"像他們這樣散播消息的方式"},{"start":90,"end":92,"text":"會長,我現在要說明"},{"start":92,"end":96,"text":"昨天他們就在我們漢光演習的前夕"},{"start":96,"end":98,"text":"實施了聯合戰備警訊"},{"start":98,"end":104,"text":"那我在這邊要說是製造戰爭焦慮應該不是我們"},{"start":104,"end":109,"text":"那實施這樣子的一個聯合戰備警訊"},{"start":109,"end":115,"text":"然後另外有共建不斷的連續性的"},{"start":115,"end":119,"text":"不停的去圍繞著我們的台海周邊"},{"start":119,"end":123,"text":"那現在甚至海景在我們的東邊海域"},{"start":123,"end":127,"text":"不斷的在例行這個進行這種常態性的"},{"start":127,"end":132,"text":"應該常態性的這樣子的一個巡邏"},{"start":132,"end":135,"text":"跟一些相關的一些作為"},{"start":135,"end":139,"text":"我想這個事實上製造這樣的戰爭焦慮"},{"start":139,"end":144,"text":"應該來迫害區域和平穩定的狀態的是中國"},{"start":144,"end":150,"text":"那有關有在他們會做一些像這樣子的一個認知作戰"},{"start":150,"end":155,"text":"那我們只是必須要一再的去說明就是說"},{"start":155,"end":159,"text":"我們持續強化我們的實戰化訓練部隊的戰力"},{"start":159,"end":162,"text":"然後我們的要驚死我們的後備動員"},{"start":162,"end":167,"text":"跟我們的全民防衛任性來然後來呈現"},{"start":167,"end":173,"text":"我們應該有的準備形成嚇阻是我們現在最大的努力方向"},{"start":173,"end":177,"text":"那至於其他有一些像比如說講說"},{"start":177,"end":179,"text":"領域賠儉提前退伍等等的"},{"start":179,"end":185,"text":"我想我在上一次的報告裡面還是我記得已經有說過了"},{"start":185,"end":190,"text":"我們總體來看就是整體的流營率是提升的"},{"start":190,"end":194,"text":"整體的志願役的人數也是逐年增加"},{"start":194,"end":197,"text":"所以你不能夠說沒有提前退伍的"},{"start":197,"end":200,"text":"但是我們看了我國防部這邊看的是一個趨勢"},{"start":200,"end":207,"text":"也就是說整體的趨勢這個不適合提前退伍的人數是下降的"},{"start":207,"end":212,"text":"從114年比較113年那或者是今年比較去年"},{"start":212,"end":215,"text":"那志願役的人數也是較之前要增加的"},{"start":215,"end":219,"text":"所以流營的意願跟能力是有一個穩定成長"},{"start":219,"end":225,"text":"我想這個是一個我們看到的一個事實"},{"start":225,"end":232,"text":"這個我想我們不會去讓我們的這個事實不去呈現"},{"start":232,"end":236,"text":"那至於網路降速的這個部分"},{"start":236,"end":242,"text":"我想國軍的漢光演習本來就是要在不同的情境響聽之下"},{"start":242,"end":248,"text":"去進行最嚴苛的一個狀況應處"},{"start":248,"end":251,"text":"那這個我們一再強調就是說"},{"start":251,"end":254,"text":"如果在通訊這個部分就是強調PACE的觀念"},{"start":254,"end":261,"text":"就是說我們有主要替代的然後有應變的然後緊急的"},{"start":261,"end":269,"text":"那這種的概念本來就在我們的應該要演練的通訊的任性的範圍之內"},{"start":269,"end":273,"text":"那因為全民防衛任性的這個部分"},{"start":273,"end":278,"text":"這個部分有涉及到說要讓國內也知道"},{"start":278,"end":282,"text":"在這個重大災害或者是這個重大緊急狀況之下"},{"start":282,"end":284,"text":"會可能面臨的一個狀況"},{"start":284,"end":288,"text":"那我想這個目的是要讓民眾能夠警覺到"},{"start":288,"end":291,"text":"是有這個情形可能會發生"},{"start":291,"end":300,"text":"那我想這個要行動網路降速"},{"start":300,"end":302,"text":"然後要到達什麼樣的一個程度"},{"start":302,"end":304,"text":"要做什麼樣的規劃"},{"start":304,"end":309,"text":"這個就是由行政院這邊來做跨部會的一個決定"},{"start":309,"end":313,"text":"那廣部就是這邊來配合來做辦理"},{"start":313,"end":314,"text":"謝謝部長"},{"start":314,"end":317,"text":"那我剛剛想說讓這個部長把這個講完整"},{"start":317,"end":319,"text":"就是因為第一個他是漢光第一天"},{"start":319,"end":323,"text":"那對方就簡單來講他就是想要製造這樣的一個"},{"start":323,"end":326,"text":"不管是軍心還是民心的動盪"},{"start":326,"end":327,"text":"所以我覺得我們在第一天"},{"start":327,"end":331,"text":"就是甚至在前一天的時候我們就予以這樣的一個回擊"},{"start":331,"end":333,"text":"我認為這樣是正確的做法"},{"start":333,"end":336,"text":"那他當然他一定都會先提一些"},{"start":336,"end":339,"text":"比如說第二則他說有網路的降速"},{"start":339,"end":341,"text":"確實我們本來就是要配合"},{"start":341,"end":343,"text":"我們要知道說如果今天降速的時候"},{"start":343,"end":345,"text":"我們該怎麼去應處"},{"start":345,"end":347,"text":"但是後面那句話製造戰爭焦慮"},{"start":347,"end":348,"text":"剛剛部長其實講得很好"},{"start":348,"end":350,"text":"就是做賊喊抓賊"},{"start":350,"end":353,"text":"我們明明製造戰爭焦慮的是對方"},{"start":353,"end":355,"text":"根本就不是我們"},{"start":355,"end":358,"text":"那第一則就是這個賠錢提前退伍這件事情"},{"start":358,"end":359,"text":"過往的專報"},{"start":359,"end":361,"text":"其實這個我也質詢過蠻多次的"},{"start":361,"end":365,"text":"就是說事實到底為何其實是應該要被講清楚"},{"start":365,"end":368,"text":"對方是故意忽略了很多的基礎事實"},{"start":368,"end":370,"text":"去散佈這樣的一個訊息"},{"start":370,"end":373,"text":"那這個其實都是作戰的一部分"},{"start":373,"end":375,"text":"如果我們能夠予以這個快速的回擊的話"},{"start":375,"end":379,"text":"我覺得這也是對我來說這也是演習的一部分"},{"start":379,"end":383,"text":"反認知作戰確實是我們現在一個重要的"},{"start":383,"end":385,"text":"也是國軍的任務之一"},{"start":386,"end":389,"text":"那這個我接下來想要問這一個"},{"start":389,"end":393,"text":"就是這個是紐時這一個最近的報導"},{"start":393,"end":396,"text":"這個報導就是說這個台人港人"},{"start":396,"end":400,"text":"跟這個五眼聯盟有被獨立的標籤列館"},{"start":400,"end":402,"text":"這個內容其實我覺得看起來"},{"start":402,"end":404,"text":"看起來是有點深入"},{"start":404,"end":407,"text":"那這為什麼會跟國防部有關係呢"},{"start":407,"end":410,"text":"是因為之前也有一個類似的這個新聞"},{"start":410,"end":412,"text":"我覺得跟這個搭配在一起看"},{"start":412,"end":415,"text":"看起來就是這個他到這一個"},{"start":415,"end":418,"text":"有人到中國去旅遊的時候"},{"start":418,"end":422,"text":"結果這一個中國去問他的父母的身分證字號"},{"start":422,"end":426,"text":"他這個父母其實是跟軍方有關係"},{"start":426,"end":430,"text":"然後所以對方還說你把父母的身分證字號報錯了"},{"start":430,"end":434,"text":"那這一個如果跟紐時的這個報告合在一起看"},{"start":434,"end":436,"text":"我們應該就會發現"},{"start":436,"end":439,"text":"他這個現在監控的範圍其實非常的大"},{"start":439,"end":442,"text":"那當然我們現在軍人如果要出國"},{"start":442,"end":444,"text":"不要說去中國"},{"start":444,"end":448,"text":"出國這件事情在我們軍人相關的規範其實非常嚴格"},{"start":448,"end":452,"text":"但是現在有另外一種狀況是軍人的眷屬"},{"start":452,"end":454,"text":"他的兄弟姐妹啊"},{"start":454,"end":456,"text":"他的子女啊父母啊等等之類的"},{"start":456,"end":459,"text":"那他們現在去旅遊的時候呢"},{"start":459,"end":462,"text":"間接的也有可能遭遇到這些風險"},{"start":462,"end":464,"text":"所以目前來講我知道這個陸委會"},{"start":464,"end":467,"text":"最主要是在主責整體國人"},{"start":467,"end":469,"text":"這個去中國的這個風險"},{"start":469,"end":472,"text":"那如果說今天是跟軍人有關的人事"},{"start":472,"end":474,"text":"那他不是軍方的人"},{"start":474,"end":477,"text":"那目前來講國防部有沒有什麼對應的措施"},{"start":477,"end":478,"text":"那這個部長簡單回答就好"},{"start":478,"end":480,"text":"因為我今天不太想超過時間"},{"start":480,"end":482,"text":"因為今天畢竟是漢光"},{"start":482,"end":485,"text":"我們是有一個國軍官兵建署反制中共"},{"start":485,"end":487,"text":"接觸的注意事項"},{"start":487,"end":490,"text":"那我們當然現役的他去世有受到管制"},{"start":490,"end":493,"text":"那眷屬的部分我們沒有辦法來做管制"},{"start":493,"end":498,"text":"但是我們會教育就是說他們能夠提高警覺"},{"start":498,"end":500,"text":"那如果遭中共接觸的話"},{"start":500,"end":504,"text":"那就希望他們能夠回國以後立即告知"},{"start":504,"end":508,"text":"來向我們所屬的保防部門來反應"},{"start":508,"end":511,"text":"這是我們現在能夠做到的"},{"start":511,"end":513,"text":"好 謝謝侯副部長"},{"start":513,"end":515,"text":"那後面這個等到漢光完以後再問"},{"start":515,"end":516,"text":"因為畢竟我們的演習"},{"start":516,"end":519,"text":"現在基本上有時候都基本上越來越多"},{"start":519,"end":520,"text":"那也是不得已的事情"},{"start":520,"end":522,"text":"因為中國的威脅擺在那邊"},{"start":522,"end":524,"text":"但是一些喘息的空間"},{"start":524,"end":526,"text":"一些我之前一直提到的"},{"start":526,"end":528,"text":"這個無法休假的一些補償辦法"},{"start":528,"end":530,"text":"這個等到我們整個演習結束以後"},{"start":530,"end":531,"text":"我們再來詢問"},{"start":531,"end":533,"text":"畢竟本來這應該是休會期"},{"start":533,"end":534,"text":"然後現在沒有休會"},{"start":534,"end":535,"text":"然後今天是漢光"},{"start":535,"end":536,"text":"然後又有專報"},{"start":536,"end":538,"text":"那希望我們今天趕快結束"},{"start":538,"end":540,"text":"讓這個國軍能夠專注在漢光演習"},{"start":540,"end":541,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":541,"end":542,"text":"好 謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}