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這個秘書長還有次長"},{"start":22.8,"end":28.8,"text":"我想我這裡首先就針對這次我們修正法院組織法"},{"start":28.8,"end":32.8,"text":"等等相關的專業法院的組織法裡面調整"},{"start":32.8,"end":36.8,"text":"書記官的職等還有法經長的職等以及法警的職等"},{"start":36.8,"end":39.8,"text":"來跟兩位來進行討論"},{"start":39.8,"end":43.8,"text":"因為事實上就是我在7月20號的時候"},{"start":43.8,"end":46.8,"text":"其實也去桃園地方法院當時去參訪"},{"start":46.8,"end":51.8,"text":"那麼就精神衛生法法官參審制以及司法人力的制度"},{"start":51.8,"end":53.8,"text":"來進行一個考察"},{"start":53.8,"end":55.8,"text":"那根據司法院的簡報"},{"start":55.8,"end":58.8,"text":"現在因為詐欺案件量大量的增加"},{"start":58.8,"end":62.8,"text":"那麼法警體檢人犯的次數也呈現了爆炸性的成長"},{"start":62.8,"end":69.8,"text":"114年他們體檢人犯的次數比112年同期"},{"start":69.8,"end":73.8,"text":"基本上就增加了45%的這樣很高的比例"},{"start":73.8,"end":76.8,"text":"等於說工作量將近增加了五成"},{"start":76.8,"end":81.8,"text":"所以我們也因為看到其實法警也很辛苦"},{"start":81.8,"end":84.8,"text":"所以在本行這一次的修法裡面"},{"start":84.8,"end":88.8,"text":"我就是將法警的職等從現在的委任三職等到五職等"},{"start":88.8,"end":91.8,"text":"然後又往上面提高到建任六職等"},{"start":91.8,"end":94.8,"text":"那麼可是事實上剛剛聽了"},{"start":94.8,"end":96.8,"text":"就是秘書長基本上可能也支持"},{"start":96.8,"end":99.8,"text":"我們可以就是將法警的職等調高"},{"start":99.8,"end":102.8,"text":"但是詮訊部這裡是反對的"},{"start":102.8,"end":104.8,"text":"那詮訊部的理由是說"},{"start":104.8,"end":106.8,"text":"因為在公務人員任用法裡面"},{"start":106.8,"end":111.8,"text":"現在最多職等的調整就是只能夠調兩個職等是不是"},{"start":111.8,"end":113.8,"text":"2到3個職等"},{"start":113.8,"end":117.8,"text":"所以如果說從委任三職等到建任六職等的話"},{"start":117.8,"end":119.8,"text":"就等於調了四個職等"},{"start":119.8,"end":122.8,"text":"因此你們是反對這樣的一個做法"},{"start":122.8,"end":127.8,"text":"而且也認為說是這個法警應該要跟警察的職等"},{"start":127.8,"end":129.8,"text":"是不是要相一致"},{"start":129.8,"end":131.8,"text":"是不是剛剛次長意思是"},{"start":131.8,"end":132.8,"text":"我跟委員報告一下"},{"start":132.8,"end":135.8,"text":"就是說這次的調整"},{"start":135.8,"end":138.8,"text":"包括書記官、副法警長、法警長還有隊長"},{"start":138.8,"end":141.8,"text":"這我們考試院跟詮訊部都是支持的"},{"start":141.8,"end":142.8,"text":"之前討論都這樣"},{"start":142.8,"end":144.8,"text":"那麼在之前那個法警的部分"},{"start":144.8,"end":146.8,"text":"曾經有來談的是說"},{"start":146.8,"end":149.8,"text":"希望從3到5調整為4到5"},{"start":149.8,"end":152.8,"text":"但這個部分考試院跟詮訊部我們這邊的意見是說"},{"start":152.8,"end":154.8,"text":"考試初任職務就是"},{"start":154.8,"end":157.8,"text":"因為四等考試就是三職等任用"},{"start":157.8,"end":159.8,"text":"一初任就全理"},{"start":159.8,"end":163.8,"text":"這個可能就已經違背了我們目前考試的制度"},{"start":163.8,"end":167.8,"text":"那所以後來這個部分就沒有看到有進一步的討論"},{"start":167.8,"end":171.8,"text":"那這次您所提的這個草案應該會3到5或6"},{"start":171.8,"end":174.8,"text":"但是我們這次的書記官調整呢"},{"start":174.8,"end":178.8,"text":"其中三等書記官也有受到"},{"start":178.8,"end":181.8,"text":"其中是二分之一得列兼任第六職等"},{"start":181.8,"end":183.8,"text":"但是我們法警這樣的調整"},{"start":183.8,"end":187.8,"text":"卻是直接一個職務就變成3到5或6"},{"start":187.8,"end":190.8,"text":"這兩個之間就會產生完全不平衡的狀況"},{"start":190.8,"end":194.8,"text":"我想這個詮訊部的意見本身是很清楚"},{"start":194.8,"end":196.8,"text":"但是我現在要談就是說"},{"start":196.8,"end":198.8,"text":"我們現在的這種職等觀等表"},{"start":198.8,"end":200.8,"text":"有多少年沒有修了"},{"start":201.8,"end":203.8,"text":"我們事實上最近都一直在修啊"},{"start":203.8,"end":205.8,"text":"沒有啦就是以目前現在來講"},{"start":205.8,"end":208.8,"text":"我們這一套制度有沒有70年都沒修了"},{"start":208.8,"end":211.8,"text":"從民國幾年就開始實施"},{"start":211.8,"end":214.8,"text":"民國76年實施新人士制度以後"},{"start":214.8,"end":217.8,"text":"中間很多職務列免都有在調整"},{"start":217.8,"end":221.8,"text":"法律但是職務列免都有在調整"},{"start":221.8,"end":223.8,"text":"歷次這幾年來都"},{"start":223.8,"end":225.8,"text":"那現在的問題就是說"},{"start":225.8,"end":227.8,"text":"因為呢這個法警跟警察"},{"start":227.8,"end":231.8,"text":"其實他們的本俸起序都是從150點開始"},{"start":231.8,"end":233.8,"text":"就是他們本俸是相同的"},{"start":233.8,"end":235.8,"text":"差別基本上是在年供俸"},{"start":235.8,"end":238.8,"text":"我們知道整個公共人員的薪資結構"},{"start":238.8,"end":240.8,"text":"它就包含是本俸"},{"start":240.8,"end":244.8,"text":"專業加給還有職務加給再加上加班費"},{"start":244.8,"end":246.8,"text":"那現在法警跟警察其實最大的不同"},{"start":246.8,"end":248.8,"text":"就在於說警察的本俸"},{"start":248.8,"end":251.8,"text":"他還可以一直往上面調"},{"start":251.8,"end":253.8,"text":"他最高可以調到550點"},{"start":253.8,"end":257.8,"text":"或是500點或到525點"},{"start":257.8,"end":259.8,"text":"可是呢如果說是法警的話"},{"start":259.8,"end":261.8,"text":"他基本上可能就卡死了"},{"start":261.8,"end":263.8,"text":"他最高只有到330點"},{"start":263.8,"end":265.8,"text":"我覺得也是因為如此"},{"start":265.8,"end":267.8,"text":"所以法警同仁才會覺得說"},{"start":267.8,"end":269.8,"text":"心裡面很不平衡"},{"start":269.8,"end":271.8,"text":"那我們現在要講就是說"},{"start":271.8,"end":273.8,"text":"因為我們現在已經提出了這樣的修法"},{"start":273.8,"end":275.8,"text":"如果說今天我們在場很多的委員"},{"start":275.8,"end":277.8,"text":"包含司法院在內"},{"start":277.8,"end":280.8,"text":"我們都支持未來這個法警的職等"},{"start":280.8,"end":283.8,"text":"要調到兼任六職等"},{"start":283.8,"end":285.8,"text":"大概不外乎兩種做法"},{"start":285.8,"end":286.8,"text":"第一個就是現在的情況"},{"start":286.8,"end":287.8,"text":"就三職等"},{"start":287.8,"end":288.8,"text":"就委任三職等"},{"start":288.8,"end":290.8,"text":"然後調到兼任六職等"},{"start":290.8,"end":292.8,"text":"不然的話如果說要符合"},{"start":292.8,"end":294.8,"text":"剛剛群序部的說法"},{"start":294.8,"end":297.8,"text":"不然我們就把委任三職等的這個地板"},{"start":297.8,"end":299.8,"text":"我們就往上面提"},{"start":299.8,"end":302.8,"text":"就是委員四職等到兼任六職等"},{"start":302.8,"end":304.8,"text":"不知道就是群序部這邊看法如何"},{"start":304.8,"end":305.8,"text":"我跟委員報告一下"},{"start":305.8,"end":309.8,"text":"第一個法警跟警察兩個是不同的任用制度"},{"start":309.8,"end":312.8,"text":"警察是依照警察官的人質條例是禁用"},{"start":312.8,"end":314.8,"text":"他們有他們的考試方式訓練方式"},{"start":314.8,"end":317.8,"text":"然後這完全是不同的養成背景跟"},{"start":317.8,"end":319.8,"text":"而且他們工作內容一個是司法"},{"start":319.8,"end":322.8,"text":"司法一個是工作內容是完全不一樣的"},{"start":322.8,"end":324.8,"text":"把兩個東西把兩樣不同植物"},{"start":324.8,"end":325.8,"text":"把它都成一樣"},{"start":325.8,"end":328.8,"text":"這部分可能要請委員再慎重考慮"},{"start":328.8,"end":329.8,"text":"那第二個部分是說"},{"start":329.8,"end":330.8,"text":"因為我們現在考試"},{"start":330.8,"end":334.8,"text":"及格人員沒有說直接就直接就進行權利"},{"start":334.8,"end":336.8,"text":"因為在任用制度上用權利"},{"start":337.8,"end":339.8,"text":"這個是指的說因為你已經進來的"},{"start":339.8,"end":340.8,"text":"但是因為你表現很好"},{"start":340.8,"end":341.8,"text":"所以你升遷的比較快"},{"start":341.8,"end":344.8,"text":"所以才會有權利這樣的一個概念"},{"start":344.8,"end":346.8,"text":"我只用白話說法"},{"start":346.8,"end":348.8,"text":"可是你一考試資格進來就"},{"start":348.8,"end":353.8,"text":"用三職等權利第四職等都還在試用階段"},{"start":353.8,"end":355.8,"text":"試用階段就進行權利"},{"start":355.8,"end":358.8,"text":"這個在法律上這樣是不妥適的"},{"start":358.8,"end":362.8,"text":"我想這裡我就拜託次長"},{"start":362.8,"end":364.8,"text":"因為就像我們說的"},{"start":364.8,"end":367.8,"text":"公務人員的職等官等的這套制度"},{"start":367.8,"end":369.8,"text":"已經幾十年沒有改變了"},{"start":369.8,"end":372.8,"text":"但的確它反映出很多現在一些不合理的現象"},{"start":372.8,"end":374.8,"text":"那我們現在就是要解決問題"},{"start":374.8,"end":378.8,"text":"我們是希望說能夠將法頂警的職等"},{"start":378.8,"end":379.8,"text":"然後升遷的職等"},{"start":379.8,"end":381.8,"text":"然後能夠做個合理的調整"},{"start":381.8,"end":383.8,"text":"那你不能說我們今天所有的提案"},{"start":383.8,"end":384.8,"text":"然後全序部都說"},{"start":384.8,"end":386.8,"text":"又違反公務人員任用法"},{"start":386.8,"end":387.8,"text":"又違反什麼什麼"},{"start":387.8,"end":388.8,"text":"我們現在希望能夠解決"},{"start":388.8,"end":390.8,"text":"所以本期希望全序部"},{"start":390.8,"end":393.8,"text":"是不是可以提供一套比較好的方式"},{"start":393.8,"end":397.8,"text":"總之我們就是要將法頂的職等往上面提高"},{"start":397.8,"end":399.8,"text":"那你們認為要怎麼樣修法嗎"},{"start":399.8,"end":401.8,"text":"不能每次都是我們這邊提的修法"},{"start":401.8,"end":403.8,"text":"然後你們都一再的反對再反對"},{"start":403.8,"end":405.8,"text":"就像是我們修改這個"},{"start":405.8,"end":409.8,"text":"退休公教人員的年金改革法也一樣"},{"start":409.8,"end":412.8,"text":"我們就是大家就認為就一定要這樣做了"},{"start":412.8,"end":415.8,"text":"然後全序部還是從頭到尾都反對"},{"start":415.8,"end":416.8,"text":"甚至連我們法律通過了"},{"start":416.8,"end":418.8,"text":"你們還可以做歪曲的解釋"},{"start":418.8,"end":419.8,"text":"我不覺得說"},{"start":419.8,"end":422.8,"text":"我認為說這是全序部一個"},{"start":422.8,"end":423.8,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":423.8,"end":424.8,"text":"開切責任的做法"},{"start":424.8,"end":425.8,"text":"這個法律生效後"},{"start":425.8,"end":426.8,"text":"依照中法規標準法規"},{"start":426.8,"end":427.8,"text":"就是向後生效"},{"start":427.8,"end":430.8,"text":"這個部分絕對不是我部裡面"},{"start":430.8,"end":432.8,"text":"可以從歪曲解釋的"},{"start":432.8,"end":434.8,"text":"所謂生效的日期"},{"start":434.8,"end":436.8,"text":"這個部分我不跟你們討論"},{"start":436.8,"end":439.8,"text":"因為這個本來就法律的間接解釋"},{"start":439.8,"end":440.8,"text":"本來就有很大的不同"},{"start":440.8,"end":442.8,"text":"我只是認為說全序部"},{"start":442.8,"end":445.8,"text":"你們就是去做了一個最不合理的解釋"},{"start":445.8,"end":448.8,"text":"那麼回到我們今年講的法院組織法的修法"},{"start":448.8,"end":451.8,"text":"我希望你們能夠提出"},{"start":451.8,"end":453.8,"text":"如果我們要解決這個案子"},{"start":453.8,"end":455.8,"text":"怎麼樣從法律上面去解決"},{"start":455.8,"end":456.8,"text":"否則的話我們可能"},{"start":456.8,"end":459.8,"text":"就按照我們現在幾個委員的版本"},{"start":459.8,"end":460.8,"text":"我們就這樣通過了"},{"start":460.8,"end":462.8,"text":"不要到時候全序部又說"},{"start":462.8,"end":465.8,"text":"這有違憲又什麼什麼的問題"},{"start":465.8,"end":467.8,"text":"好 那麼在這裡的話"},{"start":467.8,"end":469.8,"text":"就先謝謝懷旭懷次長"},{"start":469.8,"end":471.8,"text":"那也希望你們一個月內"},{"start":471.8,"end":472.8,"text":"可以給我提出一個"},{"start":472.8,"end":473.8,"text":"一個月內我覺得太晚了"},{"start":473.8,"end":475.8,"text":"因為我們這個法案會加速進行"},{"start":475.8,"end":477.8,"text":"麻煩兩個禮拜"},{"start":477.8,"end":478.8,"text":"兩個星期之內"},{"start":478.8,"end":480.8,"text":"給我一個這個"},{"start":480.8,"end":484.8,"text":"就是你們提的相關的方案好不好"},{"start":484.8,"end":487.8,"text":"就是我們如果說要朝向提高指等的話"},{"start":487.8,"end":489.8,"text":"你們的建議做法是如何"},{"start":489.8,"end":490.8,"text":"好 那就謝謝次長"},{"start":490.8,"end":493.8,"text":"好 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的"},{"start":1065.8,"end":1067.8,"text":"可是如果判決是審判核心"},{"start":1067.8,"end":1069.8,"text":"真的要請委員包含"},{"start":1069.8,"end":1071.8,"text":"好 OK 那就先這樣"},{"start":1071.8,"end":1072.8,"text":"好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:07:11.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:07:16.562500+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我在這邊有請高秘書長及懷次長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:07:16.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:07:20.492308+08:00","text":"麻煩高秘書長及懷次長，謝謝。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:07:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:07:26.400000+08:00","text":"秘書長、次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:07:26.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:07:43.466667+08:00","text":"我在這裡首先針對這次我們修正法院組織法及相關的專業法院組織法，要調整書記官的職等、法警長的職等以及法警的職等，來跟兩位進行討論。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:07:44.371429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:08:20.569231+08:00","text":"事實上，我在7月20號的時候有去桃園地方法院參訪，就精神衛生法、法官參審制以及司法人力制度進行考察，根據司法院的簡報，其實現在因為詐欺案件大量增加，法警提解人犯的次數也呈現了爆炸性的成長，114年他們提解人犯的次數比112年同期就增加了45%，這是很高的比例，等於工作量增加了將近五成。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:08:21.388235+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:08:35.585714+08:00","text":"我們因為看到了法警的辛苦，所以本席在這一次的修法將法警的職等從現在的委任三職等到五職等往上提高到薦任六職等。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:08:36.890909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:08:55.572727+08:00","text":"事實上我剛剛聽了，秘書長基本上可能也支持將法警的職等調高，但是銓敘部是反對的，銓敘部的理由是說，因為在公務人員任用法裡面，現在最多職等的調整就是只能夠調二個職等，是不是？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:08:55.572727+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:08:56.800000+08:00","text":"二到三職等。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:08:56.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:09:14.200000+08:00","text":"二到三職等，所以如果從委任三職等到薦任六職等的話，就等於調了四個職等，因此你們是反對這樣的做法，而且也認為法警應該要跟警察的職等相一致，是不是？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:09:14.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:09:15.600000+08:00","text":"剛剛次長的意思是？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:09:15.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:09:26.657143+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告一下，這次的調整，包括書記官、副法警長、法警長還有隊長，我們考試院跟銓敘部都是支持的，之前的討論都是這樣。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:09:27.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:09:51.609524+08:00","text":"之前在法警的部分曾經有來談的是希望從三到五調整為四到五，對於這個部分，考試院跟銓敘部這邊的意見是說，因為以考試初任職務來說，四等考試就是三職等任用，一初任就權理，這個已經違背了目前的考試制度，所以後來這個部分就沒有再看到有進一步的討論。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:09:52.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:10:14.623529+08:00","text":"這一次您所提的這個草案是三至五或六，但是我們這次書記官調整，三等書記官也有受到……其中是二分之一得列薦任第六職等，但是法警這樣的調整卻是直接一個職務就是三到五或六，這兩個之間就會產生完全不平衡的狀況。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:10:16.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:10:24.550000+08:00","text":"好，銓敘部的意見本席是很清楚，但是我現在要談的是，現在的職等官等表有多少年沒有修了？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:10:26.107692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:10:27.646154+08:00","text":"事實上我們最近都一直在修啊！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:10:27.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:10:27.966667+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:10:28.633333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:10:32.600000+08:00","text":"以目前、現在來講，我們這一套制度有沒有七十年都沒修了？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:10:32.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:10:35.500000+08:00","text":"從民國幾年開始實施的？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:10:35.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:10:41.569231+08:00","text":"民國76年實施新人事制度以後，中間很多職務列等都有在調整。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:10:41.569231+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:10:42.569231+08:00","text":"好，如果是這樣的話，民國70年開始實施到現在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:10:42.415385+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:10:43.646154+08:00","text":"但是職務列等都有調整啊！","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:10:43.646154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:10:48.022222+08:00","text":"歷次那個……這幾年來、十幾年來，每一次都有在調整。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:10:48.022222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:10:59.600000+08:00","text":"現在的問題就是說，因為法警跟警察的本俸起敘都是從150點開始，也就是說，他們的本俸是相同的，差別基本上是在年功俸。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:10:59.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:11:33.514286+08:00","text":"我們知道整個公務人員的薪資結構包含本俸、專業加給、職務加給，再加上加班費，現在法警跟警察最大的不同就在於警察的本俸還可以一直往上調，最高可以調到500點或525點，但如果是法警的話，基本上可能就卡死了，最高只有到330點，我覺得也是因為如此，所以法警同仁才會覺得心裡面很不平衡……","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:11:33.514286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:11:34.514286+08:00","text":"但是我跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:11:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:12:08.657143+08:00","text":"我們現在要講的是，因為我們現在已經提出這樣的修法，如果今天在場的許多委員，包含司法院在內，我們都支持未來法警的職等要調到薦任六職等，大概不外乎兩種做法：第一個是現在的情況，就是把委任三職等調高到六職等；不然的話，如果要符合剛剛銓敘部的說法，那我們就把委任三職等的地板往上提，也就是從委任四職等到薦任六職等，不知道銓敘部的看法如何？","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:12:08.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:12:32.585714+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告一下，第一個，法警跟警察是兩個不同的任用制度，警察是依照警察人員人事條例進用，他們有他們的考試方式、訓練方式，這完全是不同的養成背景，而且他們的工作內容也是完全不一樣的，把兩樣不同的職務兜成一樣，這部分可能要請委員再慎重考慮。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:12:32.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:12:50.514286+08:00","text":"第二個，因為現在考試及格人員並沒有直接就進行權理，在任用制度上用權理是指你已經進來了，因為你表現很好，所以你升遷得比較快，所以才會有權理這樣的概念，我指的是用白話的說法。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:12:51.345455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:13:02.800000+08:00","text":"如果一考試及格進來就用三職等來權理四職等，都還在試用階段，試用階段就進行權理，在法律上這樣是不妥適的，而且我再跟委員報告一下……","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:13:03.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:13:06.400000+08:00","text":"在這裡我就拜託次長，我就拜託次長！","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:13:07.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:13:25.618182+08:00","text":"就像我們說的，整個公務人員的職等、官等這套制度已經幾十年沒有改變了，的確它反映出現在很多不合理的現象，我們現在就是要解決問題，我們希望能夠將法警升遷的職等做個合理的調整。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:13:26.514286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:13:37.600000+08:00","text":"針對我們今天所有的提案，銓敘部不能都說又違反公務人員任用法、又違反什麼什麼的，我們現在希望能夠解決，所以本席希望銓敘部是不是可以提供一套比較好的方式？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:13:37.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:13:43.466667+08:00","text":"總之我們就是要將法警的職等往上提高，那你們認為要怎麼樣修法？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:13:43.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:13:47.646154+08:00","text":"不能每次都是我們這邊提了修法，然後你們都一再的反對又反對。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:13:47.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:14:05.981818+08:00","text":"就像我們修改退休公教人員的年金改革法案也一樣，大家認為一定要這樣做了，但銓敘部還是從頭到尾都反對，甚至連我們法律通過了，你們還可以做歪曲的解釋，我認為這是銓敘部推卸責任的做法。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"懷次長敍","start":"2026-08-05T10:14:06.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:14:16.550000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，法律生效依照中央法規標準法的規定就是向後生效，這個部分絕對不是我們部裡面可以歪曲解釋的。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:14:16.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:14:29.612500+08:00","text":"在法條裡面本來就可以訂立所謂的生效日期，這個部分我不跟你們討論，因為法律的見解、解釋，本來就有很大的不同，我只是認為銓敘部做了一個最不合理的解釋。","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:14:30.133333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:14:49.550000+08:00","text":"回到我們今天講的法院組織法的修法，我希望你們能夠提出如果我們要解決這個案子，要怎麼樣從法律上面去解決，否則的話，可能我們就按照現在幾個委員的版本就這樣通過了，不要到時候銓敘部又說這有違憲以及什麼什麼的問題。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:14:50.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:15:08.514286+08:00","text":"在這裡先謝謝懷敍次長，也希望你們一個月內可以提出一個……一個月內我覺得太晚，因為我們這個法案會加速進行，麻煩兩個星期之內給我一個你們提的相關方案好不好？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:15:09.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:15:13.600000+08:00","text":"如果我們要朝向提高職等的話，你們的建議做法是如何？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:15:13.942857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:15:14.657143+08:00","text":"那就謝謝次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:15:15.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:15:51.492308+08:00","text":"接下來我要再請教秘書長的是，最近其實有人在反映，我們看到桃園的一個法官在判決書上面寫了一段很奇怪的話，我想高秘書長當法官也當了這麼多年，您當然很清楚我們判決書的格式大概是怎麼樣，通常是在判決主文之後就會寫事實及理由，你曾經看過人家在事實理由之後的第一段先寫個叫「寫在最前面」的嗎？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:15:51.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:15:59.466667+08:00","text":"就是他在開始敘述事實或者理由之前，他先寫一個前言。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:16:02.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:16:42.533333+08:00","text":"我不知道之前有沒有法官曾經這麼做過，但是我曉得過去也曾經發生過許多起法官在寫完判決書之後寫了一個後記的情況，也就是附記事項，譬如早期有個「法官叔叔判決」，他就寫個附記事項；或是說有所謂的可憐小人物，法官說這些當事人可能是個可憐小人物，所以有所謂可憐小人物的判決，後面也寫個後記；或者是還有一個法官，因為當時正好流行看「我們與惡的距離」，所以他就寫個與惡的距離的判決，後面也寫了一個本案審理後的註記。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:16:43.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:16:49.600000+08:00","text":"類似像這種情況，現在我們的判決書裡面，三不五時可能會看到一些奇奇怪怪的現象。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:16:51.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:17:08.633333+08:00","text":"秘書長，因為您先前是法院的院長，現在又當了司法院秘書長，你認不認為像這樣子的判決書撰寫方式，司法院應該要做一個行政指導，或是要頒布一個注意事項，我們可以容許這樣的寫法嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:17:08.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:17:20.600000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實判決該怎麼寫，訴訟法規定得清清楚楚，法官們要多寫，它不是無效，他可能要表達他的情緒。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:17:20.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:17:36.436364+08:00","text":"當然情緒的表達是不是在整個訴訟法規定的範圍內，老實說，你要問我個人意見的話，我認為是有斟酌的餘地，這種話要不要在這邊寫？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:17:36.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:17:49.500000+08:00","text":"問我個人的意見，我是不建議，可能應該在法庭上跟當事人講就好了，不需要寫到判決裡面去。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:17:50.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:17:56.527273+08:00","text":"關於判決的格式，我個人認為一定要嚴謹，而且是嚴肅的。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:17:56.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:18:23.500000+08:00","text":"是，我非常贊同秘書長的觀點，我跟您一樣的看法，在判決書的第一段他先寫個前言，還告訴當事人說假設要提上訴的話，不要問AI，要去找一個有血有肉、有執照的律師來幫他上訴，我覺得這都已經逾越了法官的職權。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:18:24.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:18:59.466667+08:00","text":"不知道秘書長知不知道之前有一位臺灣高等法院臺南分院的法官叫林臻嫺，他曾經寫過一篇論文叫做「從我國判決書附記事項談中國法官後語之爭議」，當時他就講了，有很多法官可能會在判決之後、在法官簽名之前寫了他的感想或附記事項，他也有從法律角度去質疑類似這種附記事項算不算是整體判決書的一部分？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:18:59.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:19:14.514286+08:00","text":"如果它是整體判決書的一部分，那麼當當事人對於附記事項或是我們現在看到的前言，認為內容有違法或是不當的時候，可不可以以此作為上訴的理由？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:19:14.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:19:16.633333+08:00","text":"我覺得這是一個很嚴肅的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:19:17.657143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:19:31.527273+08:00","text":"所以我剛剛回答委員說判決是嚴肅的，它絕對會牽涉到你寫的任何東西可不可以作為上訴的標的，這是我們在法律上必須要很嚴格來審視的。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:19:31.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:19:40.800000+08:00","text":"是，因此本席希望司法院是不是也可以在兩週內給本席一份報告？","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:19:41.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:19:59.550000+08:00","text":"可不可以請你們針對類似這種法官在寫判決書上的一些奇怪做法，可以有一個比較清楚的原則，看看未來要怎麼樣去指導或者說是要怎麼樣去處理類似這種判決書的撰寫方式好不好？","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:19:59.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:20:03.425000+08:00","text":"因為畢竟在我們的民訴及刑事訴訟法裡面都有清楚規定判決書的記載內容。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:20:03.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:20:14.688889+08:00","text":"我要先跟委員簡單的講一句話，因為判決會牽涉到審判核心，如果碰到審判核心，我們司法行政一定要退縮，當然如果它不是審判核心，那我們就可以做指導原則。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:20:16.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:20:21.514286+08:00","text":"好，這部分麻煩秘書長再給我一份報告。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:20:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:20:31.633333+08:00","text":"接下來第三個問題是有關於職務評定的問題，就像我們剛剛講的，其實有些法官基本上已經變成慣性，他很喜歡在判決書裡面常常發表他自己的一些高見。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:20:32.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:20:53.716667+08:00","text":"除此之外，也有一些法官可能涉及到貪污或是性騷、霸凌，甚至最近出現有檢察官放高利貸等等，本席想要談的是有關於法官職務評定的議題，其實在前幾次的質詢裡面，我都有關注這個議題，只是當時秘書長沒有來。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:20:54.657143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:21:07.577778+08:00","text":"我在這裡又看到了另外一個資料，這是我在7月8日當時提出質詢，希望法務部與司法院分別提供檢察官及法官職務評定的統計數據。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:21:07.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:21:10.633333+08:00","text":"結果我不看不知道，一看嚇了一跳！","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:21:10.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:21:50.688889+08:00","text":"原來我們所有司法官幾乎都是完人，因為從評鑑的統計資料裡面顯示，幾乎99％的法官都是良好，未達良好的法官比例是非常之低，大概100個人裡面頂多只有1個人是所謂的表現不好；可是事實上這些年我們也的確在蠻多社會新聞有看到，不管是檢察官的起訴行為，或者是法官的判決裡面，也出了一些問題。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:21:51.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:22:05.466667+08:00","text":"對於這個部分，我想請教，司法院有沒有參考現在公務人員的考績制度，要將你們的職務評定制度，進行一些改革？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:22:05.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:22:06.675000+08:00","text":"目前就只有兩分法嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:22:06.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:22:26.466667+08:00","text":"不是良好，就是未達良好，但是這個沒有辦法真的去鑑別到底良好之外，還有沒有更優秀的，而未達良好，我們看到整個結果是人數和比例都很低，所以事實上好像並沒有辦法真的去淘汰壞法官或是壞檢察官。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:22:26.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:22:39.675000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，我想良好就是良好，不要再去分優秀、特優，我覺得不要造成競爭關係，只是不良好，對於不適任的法官，我們是給他良好嗎？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:22:40.085714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:22:59.657143+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們常常會看到法官有些判決好像有點走歪了，可是要跟委員報告，法官整年的判決有上萬件，他偶爾有一、兩件是有瑕疵，沒錯，但我們可以因為這一、兩件就說他不良好嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:23:00.228571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:23:07.569231+08:00","text":"這個是我們必須要慎重考慮的，像我常常開玩笑講：吃燒餅，偶爾就會掉一、兩粒芝麻。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:23:07.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:23:12.415385+08:00","text":"除非是委員提到的那種行為錯誤的……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:23:12.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:23:13.657143+08:00","text":"對，像一些言行不檢……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:23:13.657143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:23:14.657143+08:00","text":"對，言行不檢的，絕對……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:23:13.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:23:21.514286+08:00","text":"有風紀違失或有性騷、霸凌的司法人員，像這樣的法官，你們是不是……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:23:22.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:23:25.514286+08:00","text":"那何止不良好，那不會只有不良好，一定都是送評鑑。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:23:26.657143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:23:42.550000+08:00","text":"那一種法官，司法院也絕對不會讓他存在，可是對於某些判決的瑕疵，真的很難說，他處理上萬件的案件，可能有兩、三件被非常上訴……","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:23:42.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:01.466667+08:00","text":"我們上次主要是針對會縱放毒駕犯的法官，他們在毒駕犯的羈押裁定裡面多次縱放，類似這種情況，也已經影響到社會的觀感……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:01.466667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:02.466667+08:00","text":"對，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:02.133333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:21.371429+08:00","text":"在你們的職務評定辦法裡面本來就有講，法官的言行或者所做的裁定、判決，如果有損害社會的觀感、有損害社會對司法的信任，你們也是可以做檢討的，但是我沒有看到司法院對這個議題有更深入的反思……","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:21.371429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:22.371429+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:21.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:32.466667+08:00","text":"本席今天時間有限，我希望是不是可以請秘書長，就職務評定的部分，你們再去做個檢討，好不好？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:32.466667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:33.466667+08:00","text":"至少該修的辦法就應該要修……","quality":0},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:32.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:35.633333+08:00","text":"如果沒有涉及到審判核心，我們絕對檢討……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:36.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:38.657143+08:00","text":"當然，職務評定不會涉及到審判核心……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:38.657143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:39.657143+08:00","text":"審判核心，我們一定要尊重。","quality":0},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:38.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:49.700000+08:00","text":"但是當司法人員的行為舉止，還有多次的判決，都已經影響到社會觀感的時候，我覺得這個部分是可以進行檢討的。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:49.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:53.300000+08:00","text":"可是如果判決涉及審判核心，真的要請委員包涵。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:53.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:56.466667+08:00","text":"好，就先這樣，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:56.966667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:24:58.395238+08:00","text":"謝謝翁委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（翁委員曉玲）","start":"2026-08-05T10:24:58.695238+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:25:02.123810+08:00","text":"接下來有請沈發惠委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}