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謝謝主席"},{"start":9,"end":12.8,"text":"我在這邊有請高秘書長還有淮旭次長"},{"start":12.8,"end":16.8,"text":"麻煩高秘書長還有黃次長 謝謝"},{"start":18.8,"end":22.8,"text":"好 這個秘書長還有次長"},{"start":22.8,"end":28.8,"text":"我想我這裡首先就針對這次我們修正法院組織法"},{"start":28.8,"end":32.8,"text":"等等相關的專業法院的組織法裡面調整"},{"start":32.8,"end":36.8,"text":"書記官的職等還有法經長的職等以及法警的職等"},{"start":36.8,"end":39.8,"text":"來跟兩位來進行討論"},{"start":39.8,"end":43.8,"text":"因為事實上就是我在7月20號的時候"},{"start":43.8,"end":46.8,"text":"其實也去桃園地方法院當時去參訪"},{"start":46.8,"end":51.8,"text":"那麼就精神衛生法法官參審制以及司法人力的制度"},{"start":51.8,"end":53.8,"text":"來進行一個考察"},{"start":53.8,"end":55.8,"text":"那根據司法院的簡報"},{"start":55.8,"end":58.8,"text":"現在因為詐欺案件量大量的增加"},{"start":58.8,"end":62.8,"text":"那麼法警體檢人犯的次數也呈現了爆炸性的成長"},{"start":62.8,"end":69.8,"text":"114年他們體檢人犯的次數比112年同期"},{"start":69.8,"end":73.8,"text":"基本上就增加了45%的這樣很高的比例"},{"start":73.8,"end":76.8,"text":"等於說工作量將近增加了五成"},{"start":76.8,"end":81.8,"text":"所以我們也因為看到其實法警也很辛苦"},{"start":81.8,"end":84.8,"text":"所以在本行這一次的修法裡面"},{"start":84.8,"end":88.8,"text":"我就是將法警的職等從現在的委任三職等到五職等"},{"start":88.8,"end":91.8,"text":"然後又往上面提高到建任六職等"},{"start":91.8,"end":94.8,"text":"那麼可是事實上剛剛聽了"},{"start":94.8,"end":96.8,"text":"就是秘書長基本上可能也支持"},{"start":96.8,"end":99.8,"text":"我們可以就是將法警的職等調高"},{"start":99.8,"end":102.8,"text":"但是詮訊部這裡是反對的"},{"start":102.8,"end":104.8,"text":"那詮訊部的理由是說"},{"start":104.8,"end":106.8,"text":"因為在公務人員任用法裡面"},{"start":106.8,"end":111.8,"text":"現在最多職等的調整就是只能夠調兩個職等是不是"},{"start":111.8,"end":113.8,"text":"2到3個職等"},{"start":113.8,"end":117.8,"text":"所以如果說從委任三職等到建任六職等的話"},{"start":117.8,"end":119.8,"text":"就等於調了四個職等"},{"start":119.8,"end":122.8,"text":"因此你們是反對這樣的一個做法"},{"start":122.8,"end":127.8,"text":"而且也認為說是這個法警應該要跟警察的職等"},{"start":127.8,"end":129.8,"text":"是不是要相一致"},{"start":129.8,"end":131.8,"text":"是不是剛剛次長意思是"},{"start":131.8,"end":132.8,"text":"我跟委員報告一下"},{"start":132.8,"end":135.8,"text":"就是說這次的調整"},{"start":135.8,"end":138.8,"text":"包括書記官、副法警長、法警長還有隊長"},{"start":138.8,"end":141.8,"text":"這我們考試院跟詮訊部都是支持的"},{"start":141.8,"end":142.8,"text":"之前討論都這樣"},{"start":142.8,"end":144.8,"text":"那麼在之前那個法警的部分"},{"start":144.8,"end":146.8,"text":"曾經有來談的是說"},{"start":146.8,"end":149.8,"text":"希望從3到5調整為4到5"},{"start":149.8,"end":152.8,"text":"但這個部分考試院跟詮訊部我們這邊的意見是說"},{"start":152.8,"end":154.8,"text":"考試初任職務就是"},{"start":154.8,"end":157.8,"text":"因為四等考試就是三職等任用"},{"start":157.8,"end":159.8,"text":"一初任就全理"},{"start":159.8,"end":163.8,"text":"這個可能就已經違背了我們目前考試的制度"},{"start":163.8,"end":167.8,"text":"那所以後來這個部分就沒有看到有進一步的討論"},{"start":167.8,"end":171.8,"text":"那這次您所提的這個草案應該會3到5或6"},{"start":171.8,"end":174.8,"text":"但是我們這次的書記官調整呢"},{"start":174.8,"end":178.8,"text":"其中三等書記官也有受到"},{"start":178.8,"end":181.8,"text":"其中是二分之一得列兼任第六職等"},{"start":181.8,"end":183.8,"text":"但是我們法警這樣的調整"},{"start":183.8,"end":187.8,"text":"卻是直接一個職務就變成3到5或6"},{"start":187.8,"end":190.8,"text":"這兩個之間就會產生完全不平衡的狀況"},{"start":190.8,"end":194.8,"text":"我想這個詮訊部的意見本身是很清楚"},{"start":194.8,"end":196.8,"text":"但是我現在要談就是說"},{"start":196.8,"end":198.8,"text":"我們現在的這種職等觀等表"},{"start":198.8,"end":200.8,"text":"有多少年沒有修了"},{"start":201.8,"end":203.8,"text":"我們事實上最近都一直在修啊"},{"start":203.8,"end":205.8,"text":"沒有啦就是以目前現在來講"},{"start":205.8,"end":208.8,"text":"我們這一套制度有沒有70年都沒修了"},{"start":208.8,"end":211.8,"text":"從民國幾年就開始實施"},{"start":211.8,"end":214.8,"text":"民國76年實施新人士制度以後"},{"start":214.8,"end":217.8,"text":"中間很多職務列免都有在調整"},{"start":217.8,"end":221.8,"text":"法律但是職務列免都有在調整"},{"start":221.8,"end":223.8,"text":"歷次這幾年來都"},{"start":223.8,"end":225.8,"text":"那現在的問題就是說"},{"start":225.8,"end":227.8,"text":"因為呢這個法警跟警察"},{"start":227.8,"end":231.8,"text":"其實他們的本俸起序都是從150點開始"},{"start":231.8,"end":233.8,"text":"就是他們本俸是相同的"},{"start":233.8,"end":235.8,"text":"差別基本上是在年供俸"},{"start":235.8,"end":238.8,"text":"我們知道整個公共人員的薪資結構"},{"start":238.8,"end":240.8,"text":"它就包含是本俸"},{"start":240.8,"end":244.8,"text":"專業加給還有職務加給再加上加班費"},{"start":244.8,"end":246.8,"text":"那現在法警跟警察其實最大的不同"},{"start":246.8,"end":248.8,"text":"就在於說警察的本俸"},{"start":248.8,"end":251.8,"text":"他還可以一直往上面調"},{"start":251.8,"end":253.8,"text":"他最高可以調到550點"},{"start":253.8,"end":257.8,"text":"或是500點或到525點"},{"start":257.8,"end":259.8,"text":"可是呢如果說是法警的話"},{"start":259.8,"end":261.8,"text":"他基本上可能就卡死了"},{"start":261.8,"end":263.8,"text":"他最高只有到330點"},{"start":263.8,"end":265.8,"text":"我覺得也是因為如此"},{"start":265.8,"end":267.8,"text":"所以法警同仁才會覺得說"},{"start":267.8,"end":269.8,"text":"心裡面很不平衡"},{"start":269.8,"end":271.8,"text":"那我們現在要講就是說"},{"start":271.8,"end":273.8,"text":"因為我們現在已經提出了這樣的修法"},{"start":273.8,"end":275.8,"text":"如果說今天我們在場很多的委員"},{"start":275.8,"end":277.8,"text":"包含司法院在內"},{"start":277.8,"end":280.8,"text":"我們都支持未來這個法警的職等"},{"start":280.8,"end":283.8,"text":"要調到兼任六職等"},{"start":283.8,"end":285.8,"text":"大概不外乎兩種做法"},{"start":285.8,"end":286.8,"text":"第一個就是現在的情況"},{"start":286.8,"end":287.8,"text":"就三職等"},{"start":287.8,"end":288.8,"text":"就委任三職等"},{"start":288.8,"end":290.8,"text":"然後調到兼任六職等"},{"start":290.8,"end":292.8,"text":"不然的話如果說要符合"},{"start":292.8,"end":294.8,"text":"剛剛群序部的說法"},{"start":294.8,"end":297.8,"text":"不然我們就把委任三職等的這個地板"},{"start":297.8,"end":299.8,"text":"我們就往上面提"},{"start":299.8,"end":302.8,"text":"就是委員四職等到兼任六職等"},{"start":302.8,"end":304.8,"text":"不知道就是群序部這邊看法如何"},{"start":304.8,"end":305.8,"text":"我跟委員報告一下"},{"start":305.8,"end":309.8,"text":"第一個法警跟警察兩個是不同的任用制度"},{"start":309.8,"end":312.8,"text":"警察是依照警察官的人質條例是禁用"},{"start":312.8,"end":314.8,"text":"他們有他們的考試方式訓練方式"},{"start":314.8,"end":317.8,"text":"然後這完全是不同的養成背景跟"},{"start":317.8,"end":319.8,"text":"而且他們工作內容一個是司法"},{"start":319.8,"end":322.8,"text":"司法一個是工作內容是完全不一樣的"},{"start":322.8,"end":324.8,"text":"把兩個東西把兩樣不同植物"},{"start":324.8,"end":325.8,"text":"把它都成一樣"},{"start":325.8,"end":328.8,"text":"這部分可能要請委員再慎重考慮"},{"start":328.8,"end":329.8,"text":"那第二個部分是說"},{"start":329.8,"end":330.8,"text":"因為我們現在考試"},{"start":330.8,"end":334.8,"text":"及格人員沒有說直接就直接就進行權利"},{"start":334.8,"end":336.8,"text":"因為在任用制度上用權利"},{"start":337.8,"end":339.8,"text":"這個是指的說因為你已經進來的"},{"start":339.8,"end":340.8,"text":"但是因為你表現很好"},{"start":340.8,"end":341.8,"text":"所以你升遷的比較快"},{"start":341.8,"end":344.8,"text":"所以才會有權利這樣的一個概念"},{"start":344.8,"end":346.8,"text":"我只用白話說法"},{"start":346.8,"end":348.8,"text":"可是你一考試資格進來就"},{"start":348.8,"end":353.8,"text":"用三職等權利第四職等都還在試用階段"},{"start":353.8,"end":355.8,"text":"試用階段就進行權利"},{"start":355.8,"end":358.8,"text":"這個在法律上這樣是不妥適的"},{"start":358.8,"end":362.8,"text":"我想這裡我就拜託次長"},{"start":362.8,"end":364.8,"text":"因為就像我們說的"},{"start":364.8,"end":367.8,"text":"公務人員的職等官等的這套制度"},{"start":367.8,"end":369.8,"text":"已經幾十年沒有改變了"},{"start":369.8,"end":372.8,"text":"但的確它反映出很多現在一些不合理的現象"},{"start":372.8,"end":374.8,"text":"那我們現在就是要解決問題"},{"start":374.8,"end":378.8,"text":"我們是希望說能夠將法頂警的職等"},{"start":378.8,"end":379.8,"text":"然後升遷的職等"},{"start":379.8,"end":381.8,"text":"然後能夠做個合理的調整"},{"start":381.8,"end":383.8,"text":"那你不能說我們今天所有的提案"},{"start":383.8,"end":384.8,"text":"然後全序部都說"},{"start":384.8,"end":386.8,"text":"又違反公務人員任用法"},{"start":386.8,"end":387.8,"text":"又違反什麼什麼"},{"start":387.8,"end":388.8,"text":"我們現在希望能夠解決"},{"start":388.8,"end":390.8,"text":"所以本期希望全序部"},{"start":390.8,"end":393.8,"text":"是不是可以提供一套比較好的方式"},{"start":393.8,"end":397.8,"text":"總之我們就是要將法頂的職等往上面提高"},{"start":397.8,"end":399.8,"text":"那你們認為要怎麼樣修法嗎"},{"start":399.8,"end":401.8,"text":"不能每次都是我們這邊提的修法"},{"start":401.8,"end":403.8,"text":"然後你們都一再的反對再反對"},{"start":403.8,"end":405.8,"text":"就像是我們修改這個"},{"start":405.8,"end":409.8,"text":"退休公教人員的年金改革法也一樣"},{"start":409.8,"end":412.8,"text":"我們就是大家就認為就一定要這樣做了"},{"start":412.8,"end":415.8,"text":"然後全序部還是從頭到尾都反對"},{"start":415.8,"end":416.8,"text":"甚至連我們法律通過了"},{"start":416.8,"end":418.8,"text":"你們還可以做歪曲的解釋"},{"start":418.8,"end":419.8,"text":"我不覺得說"},{"start":419.8,"end":422.8,"text":"我認為說這是全序部一個"},{"start":422.8,"end":423.8,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":423.8,"end":424.8,"text":"開切責任的做法"},{"start":424.8,"end":425.8,"text":"這個法律生效後"},{"start":425.8,"end":426.8,"text":"依照中法規標準法規"},{"start":426.8,"end":427.8,"text":"就是向後生效"},{"start":427.8,"end":430.8,"text":"這個部分絕對不是我部裡面"},{"start":430.8,"end":432.8,"text":"可以從歪曲解釋的"},{"start":432.8,"end":434.8,"text":"所謂生效的日期"},{"start":434.8,"end":436.8,"text":"這個部分我不跟你們討論"},{"start":436.8,"end":439.8,"text":"因為這個本來就法律的間接解釋"},{"start":439.8,"end":440.8,"text":"本來就有很大的不同"},{"start":440.8,"end":442.8,"text":"我只是認為說全序部"},{"start":442.8,"end":445.8,"text":"你們就是去做了一個最不合理的解釋"},{"start":445.8,"end":448.8,"text":"那麼回到我們今年講的法院組織法的修法"},{"start":448.8,"end":451.8,"text":"我希望你們能夠提出"},{"start":451.8,"end":453.8,"text":"如果我們要解決這個案子"},{"start":453.8,"end":455.8,"text":"怎麼樣從法律上面去解決"},{"start":455.8,"end":456.8,"text":"否則的話我們可能"},{"start":456.8,"end":459.8,"text":"就按照我們現在幾個委員的版本"},{"start":459.8,"end":460.8,"text":"我們就這樣通過了"},{"start":460.8,"end":462.8,"text":"不要到時候全序部又說"},{"start":462.8,"end":465.8,"text":"這有違憲又什麼什麼的問題"},{"start":465.8,"end":467.8,"text":"好 那麼在這裡的話"},{"start":467.8,"end":469.8,"text":"就先謝謝懷旭懷次長"},{"start":469.8,"end":471.8,"text":"那也希望你們一個月內"},{"start":471.8,"end":472.8,"text":"可以給我提出一個"},{"start":472.8,"end":473.8,"text":"一個月內我覺得太晚了"},{"start":473.8,"end":475.8,"text":"因為我們這個法案會加速進行"},{"start":475.8,"end":477.8,"text":"麻煩兩個禮拜"},{"start":477.8,"end":478.8,"text":"兩個星期之內"},{"start":478.8,"end":480.8,"text":"給我一個這個"},{"start":480.8,"end":484.8,"text":"就是你們提的相關的方案好不好"},{"start":484.8,"end":487.8,"text":"就是我們如果說要朝向提高指等的話"},{"start":487.8,"end":489.8,"text":"你們的建議做法是如何"},{"start":489.8,"end":490.8,"text":"好 那就謝謝次長"},{"start":490.8,"end":493.8,"text":"好 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OK 那就先這樣"},{"start":1071.8,"end":1072.8,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}