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10:52:19","會議時間":"2026-08-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等16人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「行政法院組織法第二十一條、第二十二條及第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等19人擬具「行政法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「行政法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「智慧財產及商業法院組織法第十八條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等20人擬具「智慧財產及商業法院組織法第十八條、第二十一條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「智慧財產及商業法院組織法第十八條、第二十一條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「少年及家事法院組織法第十四條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等20人擬具「少年及家事法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「少年及家事法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「懲戒法院組織法第六條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等20人擬具「懲戒法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「懲戒法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":0.03096875,"end":0.84096875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":12.36659375,"end":15.437843750000003,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":15.606593750000002,"end":16.56846875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":21.52971875,"end":33.62909375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":33.86534375,"end":36.00846875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":36.53159375,"end":40.37909375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":43.517843750000004,"end":45.05346875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":43.97346875,"end":50.23409375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":50.453468750000006,"end":51.80346875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":50.554718750000006,"end":53.99721875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":53.99721875,"end":57.726593750000006,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":54.03096875,"end":57.91221875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":58.09784375,"end":59.127218750000004,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":59.71784375,"end":71.17596875000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":71.71596875,"end":73.42034375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":73.58909375,"end":75.79971875000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":74.73659375000001,"end":75.12471875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":75.74909375,"end":76.55909375,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":76.86284375000001,"end":78.82034375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":78.17909375,"end":78.36471875000001,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":79.10721875,"end":79.51221875,"speaker_score":0.962},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":79.96784375,"end":84.16971875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":84.57471875,"end":85.31721875000001,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":85.45221875,"end":86.85284375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":87.19034375000001,"end":126.49221875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":126.99846875000001,"end":128.01096875000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":128.70284375,"end":130.08659375000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":130.47471875000002,"end":130.99784375000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":131.04846875,"end":134.28846875000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":134.60909375,"end":138.67596875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":138.92909375000002,"end":140.46471875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":141.20721875,"end":142.25346875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":142.74284375000002,"end":147.23159375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":147.26534375,"end":152.83409375000002,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":153.08721875,"end":163.27971875,"speaker_score":0.959},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"莊委員瑞雄","start":163.56659375,"end":196.91159375,"speaker_score":0.959},{"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有請我們司法院高秘書長"},{"start":15.38,"end":16.78,"text":"好 請高秘書長"},{"start":21.28,"end":24.28,"text":"秘書長 幾個問題來請教"},{"start":24.28,"end":27.28,"text":"上禮拜 我看考試院"},{"start":27.28,"end":32.28,"text":"也通過了司法院會賢的五部組織法的一個修正草案"},{"start":32.28,"end":33.28,"text":"你們的當時"},{"start":33.28,"end":36.28,"text":"你們可能提出的時間比較晚吧"},{"start":36.28,"end":40.28,"text":"這一次的委員會裡面呢 你們的案子裡面好像就沒有列進來喔"},{"start":40.28,"end":43.28,"text":"因為8月3號才進來"},{"start":43.28,"end":45.28,"text":"喔 昨天才進來"},{"start":45.28,"end":50.28,"text":"行政院會賢 又送考試院會賢 所以8月3號送到貴院來了"},{"start":50.28,"end":52.28,"text":"那還好啦 至少有一個"},{"start":52.28,"end":54.28,"text":"因為行政院就是會賢的時間很久啦"},{"start":54.28,"end":57.28,"text":"所以至少有一個確定的時間啦"},{"start":57.28,"end":59.28,"text":"那我想啦"},{"start":59.28,"end":62.28,"text":"應該更值得來做一個關心的就是說"},{"start":62.28,"end":67.28,"text":"目前立法院裡面也有多位委員提出修法的一個版本嘛"},{"start":67.28,"end":69.28,"text":"那你十萬年的版本喔"},{"start":69.28,"end":73.28,"text":"你跟其他委員所提出來的版本"},{"start":73.28,"end":75.28,"text":"你有跟他比較他想出來的差異嗎"},{"start":75.28,"end":76.28,"text":"是 有"},{"start":76.28,"end":79.28,"text":"你覺得怎麼樣 你譬如說"},{"start":79.28,"end":81.28,"text":"這次改革的重點喔"},{"start":81.28,"end":83.28,"text":"其實我們在司法法制委員會裡面"},{"start":83.28,"end":87.28,"text":"大家其實都蠻關心啦"},{"start":87.28,"end":90.28,"text":"你看你書記官的一個職務的一個列等裡面喔"},{"start":90.28,"end":93.28,"text":"或者說是改善他們的一個升遷的一個制度"},{"start":93.28,"end":96.28,"text":"關心了很久了 我相信司法院也非常的一個關心"},{"start":96.28,"end":100.28,"text":"你說我看前面的委員在提到在質詢的時候"},{"start":100.28,"end":102.28,"text":"你說在法警的部分"},{"start":102.28,"end":106.28,"text":"確實你如果法令沒有一個明文給他去授權的話"},{"start":106.28,"end":107.28,"text":"那個很麻煩的啦"},{"start":107.28,"end":111.28,"text":"所以你要提升法警的那個整個職等"},{"start":111.28,"end":113.28,"text":"增設法警的小隊長"},{"start":113.28,"end":115.28,"text":"明確法律的一個授權"},{"start":115.28,"end":118.28,"text":"你說你法警到底你的職權你兌了嗎"},{"start":118.28,"end":120.28,"text":"把它補足法律上的一個依據喔"},{"start":120.28,"end":122.28,"text":"這個是這個是對的啦"},{"start":122.28,"end":126.28,"text":"那如何去強化整個安全的一個檢查的一個制度啊"},{"start":126.28,"end":129.28,"text":"這個在整個我看這樣把它聽下來"},{"start":129.28,"end":131.28,"text":"我們司法法制委員會"},{"start":131.28,"end":134.28,"text":"對這塊其實大家都也要跟你支持啊"},{"start":134.28,"end":136.28,"text":"因為歐委員在砍預算是砍得很狠的"},{"start":136.28,"end":138.28,"text":"可是對你們司法院算是很好的捏"},{"start":138.28,"end":140.28,"text":"這個你也真的要保護"},{"start":140.28,"end":142.28,"text":"因為我一直認為啊"},{"start":142.28,"end":143.28,"text":"法院喔"},{"start":143.28,"end":147.28,"text":"你像比如說我們在討論這個書記官的問題"},{"start":147.28,"end":149.28,"text":"在討論法警的問題"},{"start":149.28,"end":152.28,"text":"其實都不是只有在談他們的待遇"},{"start":152.28,"end":156.28,"text":"就是要談說你這些補足這些人力以後呢"},{"start":156.28,"end":159.28,"text":"不要讓人受累不要讓人做不來"},{"start":159.28,"end":163.28,"text":"其實最終的一個目的就是這個法院都是人民在用"},{"start":163.28,"end":165.28,"text":"這個制度啊"},{"start":165.28,"end":166.28,"text":"是要給老百姓用"},{"start":166.28,"end":169.28,"text":"讓老百姓接近這個法院的時候"},{"start":169.28,"end":172.28,"text":"大家覺得說這個司法來講是很溫暖的"},{"start":172.28,"end":174.28,"text":"那個是可以接近性的"},{"start":174.28,"end":176.28,"text":"重點是在這個地方啦"},{"start":176.28,"end":177.28,"text":"所以這個部分啊"},{"start":177.28,"end":179.28,"text":"我聽到你們火線過後"},{"start":179.28,"end":180.28,"text":"就動了三個半小時"},{"start":180.28,"end":181.28,"text":"你們的班本還沒"},{"start":181.28,"end":183.28,"text":"這時間上其實有時候在"},{"start":183.28,"end":185.28,"text":"修法的過程裡面你們都很清楚啦"},{"start":185.28,"end":187.28,"text":"我不知道你們中間出現了什麼樣的一個環節"},{"start":187.28,"end":189.28,"text":"但有時候速度啊"},{"start":189.28,"end":191.28,"text":"立法院既然要支持的話"},{"start":191.28,"end":195.28,"text":"你們都要再再再再加一把勁"},{"start":195.28,"end":197.28,"text":"另外我想要來請教"},{"start":197.28,"end":199.28,"text":"就是我們那個"},{"start":199.28,"end":201.28,"text":"我看應該是少年"},{"start":201.28,"end":202.28,"text":"聽到嗎"},{"start":202.28,"end":203.28,"text":"聽到嗎"},{"start":203.28,"end":204.28,"text":"來聽到請起來"},{"start":204.28,"end":206.28,"text":"我看對於那個"},{"start":206.28,"end":209.28,"text":"這次法警除了傳統的戒護以外"},{"start":209.28,"end":210.28,"text":"訓練以外"},{"start":210.28,"end":213.28,"text":"對於整個精神疾病的辨識跟危機處理"},{"start":213.28,"end":215.28,"text":"非暴力這個部分"},{"start":215.28,"end":218.28,"text":"還有跟非暴力介入跟保護性的約束的內容"},{"start":218.28,"end":220.28,"text":"要去建立一個完整的一個"},{"start":220.28,"end":222.28,"text":"訓練的一個內容"},{"start":222.28,"end":225.28,"text":"那我想這個部分其實都肯定啦"},{"start":225.28,"end":228.28,"text":"因為你精神衛生法庭上路以後"},{"start":228.28,"end":229.28,"text":"但是我們也要問的"},{"start":229.28,"end":231.28,"text":"你法警準備好了沒有"},{"start":231.28,"end":232.28,"text":"因為法警到底"},{"start":232.28,"end":235.28,"text":"我看桃園地院精神法庭的那個"},{"start":235.28,"end":237.28,"text":"上次那個去考察"},{"start":237.28,"end":239.28,"text":"考察完以後那一句話確實"},{"start":239.28,"end":241.28,"text":"聽了是滿感動啦"},{"start":241.28,"end":243.28,"text":"就是說以外的人是董事人"},{"start":243.28,"end":245.28,"text":"你開的是被理解的人"},{"start":245.28,"end":247.28,"text":"那個確實就是說"},{"start":247.28,"end":249.28,"text":"我必須要去提醒的就是說"},{"start":249.28,"end":250.28,"text":"你整個法庭的設計"},{"start":250.28,"end":252.28,"text":"你是把它去法庭化了"},{"start":252.28,"end":254.28,"text":"這個是可以肯定的"},{"start":254.28,"end":256.28,"text":"但是你危機處理的部分"},{"start":256.28,"end":258.28,"text":"有的要去訓練"},{"start":258.28,"end":261.28,"text":"我們一般在看那個精神衛生的事件裡面"},{"start":261.28,"end":263.28,"text":"常常會看它發生的東西"},{"start":263.28,"end":265.28,"text":"跟人家不同"},{"start":265.28,"end":266.28,"text":"跟一般人比較不同"},{"start":266.28,"end":270.28,"text":"精神上情緒上這個可能失控"},{"start":270.28,"end":271.28,"text":"可能會去致傷"},{"start":271.28,"end":273.28,"text":"可能會去傷害別人"},{"start":273.28,"end":276.28,"text":"或者說突發的這個攻擊"},{"start":276.28,"end":278.28,"text":"所以我要請教就是說"},{"start":278.28,"end":279.28,"text":"你們對於法警"},{"start":279.28,"end":283.28,"text":"是不是已經完成完整的一個訓練"},{"start":283.28,"end":285.28,"text":"譬如說一般大家在講的"},{"start":285.28,"end":287.28,"text":"你說精神疾病的辨識"},{"start":287.28,"end":288.28,"text":"危機要怎麼處理"},{"start":288.28,"end":289.28,"text":"非暴力的介入"},{"start":289.28,"end":290.28,"text":"保護性的約束"},{"start":290.28,"end":292.28,"text":"跟醫療團體合作的部分"},{"start":292.28,"end":295.28,"text":"我不知道你們現在情形如何"},{"start":296.28,"end":297.28,"text":"來 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center"},{"start":682.28,"end":685.28,"text":"其實一般民眾會想詢問"},{"start":685.28,"end":688.28,"text":"他對於整個司法機關"},{"start":688.28,"end":689.28,"text":"法院能夠提供"},{"start":689.28,"end":691.28,"text":"法院能夠提供他怎麼樣的一個"},{"start":691.28,"end":693.28,"text":"好的一個答案"},{"start":693.28,"end":695.28,"text":"差不多你給他匯整開之後"},{"start":695.28,"end":697.28,"text":"你說現在400折嘛"},{"start":697.28,"end":698.28,"text":"不止啊"},{"start":698.28,"end":699.28,"text":"什麼400折"},{"start":699.28,"end":701.28,"text":"上將近兩三千折啊"},{"start":701.28,"end":703.28,"text":"沒有啦我是說通用都用得到的啦"},{"start":703.28,"end":704.28,"text":"核心啊"},{"start":704.28,"end":705.28,"text":"核心問題"},{"start":705.28,"end":707.28,"text":"沒有我們光通用的就"},{"start":707.28,"end":710.28,"text":"我們司行你已經1000折以上"},{"start":710.28,"end":711.28,"text":"好1000折"},{"start":711.28,"end":712.28,"text":"這樣又如何"},{"start":712.28,"end":713.28,"text":"然後再把它集中"},{"start":713.28,"end":715.28,"text":"要再集中再集中"},{"start":715.28,"end":716.28,"text":"1000折"},{"start":716.28,"end":718.28,"text":"先爬500折左右"},{"start":718.28,"end":719.28,"text":"500折左右"},{"start":719.28,"end":720.28,"text":"精華"},{"start":720.28,"end":721.28,"text":"精華"},{"start":721.28,"end":722.28,"text":"也不用"},{"start":722.28,"end":724.28,"text":"有AI你要用得到"},{"start":724.28,"end":725.28,"text":"不要說1000折啦"},{"start":725.28,"end":726.28,"text":"你要5000折的話"},{"start":726.28,"end":728.28,"text":"你要讓他條列"},{"start":728.28,"end":730.28,"text":"讓他核心弄出來以後"},{"start":730.28,"end":732.28,"text":"還是要善用啦"},{"start":732.28,"end":733.28,"text":"我們在call center裡面"},{"start":733.28,"end":735.28,"text":"就是要善用AI"},{"start":735.28,"end":738.28,"text":"你完全靠人力是不可能的"},{"start":738.28,"end":739.28,"text":"是啦"},{"start":739.28,"end":741.28,"text":"這個人力是整個要配套進去的"},{"start":741.28,"end":742.28,"text":"所以但是科技"},{"start":742.28,"end":744.28,"text":"尤其這一種"},{"start":744.28,"end":746.28,"text":"比較這樣的一個建置"},{"start":746.28,"end":749.28,"text":"其實就是要讓第一線的人"},{"start":749.28,"end":751.28,"text":"第一線的人打贏"},{"start":751.28,"end":752.28,"text":"要去打贏"},{"start":752.28,"end":754.28,"text":"那以上比如說那個客服"},{"start":754.28,"end":756.28,"text":"你有時候書記給我貼到要貼時了"},{"start":756.28,"end":759.28,"text":"還有那些人要再問這有的沒的"},{"start":759.28,"end":761.28,"text":"但他要去詢問民眾或者當事人"},{"start":761.28,"end":764.28,"text":"去詢問你又不能說當事人不能關心"},{"start":764.28,"end":766.28,"text":"你還是要去做一個提供"},{"start":766.28,"end":768.28,"text":"那該交給科技"},{"start":768.28,"end":770.28,"text":"科技"},{"start":770.28,"end":773.28,"text":"行政的工作可以盡量去做一個簡化的"},{"start":773.28,"end":775.28,"text":"這部分我看這不是今天"},{"start":775.28,"end":776.28,"text":"今天要問的就是"},{"start":776.28,"end":779.28,"text":"不是只有法警跟書記官的代務"},{"start":779.28,"end":782.28,"text":"其實連這個司法體系"},{"start":782.28,"end":785.28,"text":"真的是也要跟上時代"},{"start":785.28,"end":787.28,"text":"要跟上時代就是開啟"},{"start":787.28,"end":790.28,"text":"要開啟就是要你自己的設計出來"},{"start":790.28,"end":792.28,"text":"你自己有一個制度送進來"},{"start":792.28,"end":793.28,"text":"立法委員沒那麼厲害"},{"start":793.28,"end":795.28,"text":"但是你的制度設計"},{"start":795.28,"end":796.28,"text":"你就覺得不錯"},{"start":796.28,"end":797.28,"text":"大家給你支持"},{"start":797.28,"end":800.28,"text":"不能跟我們說你沒辦法"},{"start":800.28,"end":801.28,"text":"我們等會給你支持"},{"start":801.28,"end":802.28,"text":"好不好"},{"start":802.28,"end":804.28,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":805.28,"end":807.28,"text":"好謝謝莊莊"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:06.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:09.160000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請司法院高秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:09.613333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:10.546667+08:00","text":"請高秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:15.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:27.080000+08:00","text":"秘書長，幾個問題來請教，上禮拜考試院通過了司法院會銜的五部組織法的修正草案，那你們的預計什麼時候送？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:27.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:30.049231+08:00","text":"好像你們提出的時間比較晚吧？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:30.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:33.972308+08:00","text":"這一次的委員會裡面你們的案子好像就沒有列進來了。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:34.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:36.851429+08:00","text":"因為8月3號才送進來。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:37.613333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:38.946667+08:00","text":"那不就昨天才進來？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:39.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:44.052727+08:00","text":"我們送行政院會銜，然後又送考試院會銜，所以8月3號送到貴院來了。","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:44.502222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:44.724444+08:00","text":"但是還好……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:46.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:48.146667+08:00","text":"因為行政院會銜的時間很久啦！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:48.146667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:49.146667+08:00","text":"所以司法院希望我們能夠快點推動。是啦！","quality":0.118},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:48.741538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:50.818462+08:00","text":"但至少有一個確定的時間。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:51.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:40:09.780000+08:00","text":"我想應該更值得來關心的是，目前立法院裡面也有多位委員提出修法的版本，你們有去比較司法院的版本跟其他委員所提出來的版本最大的差異嗎？有。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:40:10.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:40:11.780000+08:00","text":"你覺得怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:40:12.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:40:30.130000+08:00","text":"譬如說，這次改革的重點，其實我們在司法及法制委員會裡面大家都滿關心像書記官的職務列等，或者去改善他們的陞遷制度，關心很久了，我相信司法院也非常的關心。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:40:31.168889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:40:56.057778+08:00","text":"前面的委員在質詢的時候提到，在法警的部分，確實如果法律沒有明文授權的話，那個很麻煩，所以你要提升法警的職等、增設法警小隊長，要有明確的法律授權，法警的職權到底在哪裡，補足它法律上的依據，這個是對的啦！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:40:56.470476+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:41:13.613333+08:00","text":"至於如何去強化整個安全檢查制度，我這樣聽下來，司法及法制委員會對這部分其實大家都要給你們支持，翁委員在砍預算是砍得很狠的，可是對你們司法院算是很好的，這個你們也真的要給他誇獎一下。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:41:14.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:41:49.835556+08:00","text":"我一直認為法院的部分，比如我們在討論書記官的問題、法警的問題，都不是只有在談他們的待遇，也要談在補足這些人力以後，不要讓他們太累或做不來，其實最終的一個目的就是，法院都是人民在用，這個制度是要給老百姓用，讓老百姓去接近法院的時候會覺得司法是很溫暖的、是可以有接近性的，重點是在這個地方。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:41:50.565714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:08.946667+08:00","text":"關於這個部分，我聽到你們會銜過後才剛送進來，所以你們的版本還沒有付委，這時間上，其實有時候在修法的過程裡面你們都很清楚，我不知道你們中間出現了什麼樣的環節，但要有這個速度，立法院既然要支持的話，你們都要好好地再加把勁。","quality":0.79},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:09.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:45.057778+08:00","text":"另外，我想要請教少事廳廳長，我看這次法警除了傳統的戒護訓練以外，對於整個精神疾病辨識與危機處理、非暴力介入及保護性約束等內容，要建立一個完整的教育訓練，我想這個部分其實都肯定，在精神衛生法法庭上路以後，但是我們也要問法警準備好了沒有。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:46.741538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:59.057778+08:00","text":"上次去桃園地院精神衛生法法庭考察完後，有一句話確實聽了蠻感動的，就是進來的是當事人，離開的是被理解的人。","quality":0.729},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:43:01.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:43:29.980000+08:00","text":"我必須要去提醒的是，整個法庭的設計是把它去法庭化了，這個是可以肯定的，但是在危機處理的部分，確實真的要去訓練，一般在看精神衛生的事件裡面，常常會看到他跟一般人不一樣，就是精神上、情緒上可能會失控而自傷、傷害別人或突發攻擊。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:43:30.724444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:43:36.994286+08:00","text":"我要請教的是，你們對於法警，是不是已經完成完整的訓練？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:43:37.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:43:50.946667+08:00","text":"譬如一般大家在講的，包括精神疾病辨識與危機處理、非暴力介入及保護性約束及醫療團體合作的部分，我不知道你們現在的情形是如何，請廳長說明。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"鍾廳長宗霖","start":"2026-08-05T10:43:53.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:33.030000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的垂詢，向委員報告，我們分北、中、南三區承辦精神衛生法專家參審新制的法院都組成種子教官，包括兩位女法警、兩位男法警、一位至少是副法警長，這五位我們已經洽請急診醫學會的緊急保護病人醫療小組來專業訓練，現在分別在做北、中、南三區的專業訓練。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"鍾廳長宗霖","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:34.946667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:45:15.007273+08:00","text":"依據CRPD跟我國精神衛生法的規定，病人不是犯罪人，所以他到法庭不可以用被告的方式來介護、施用戒具、電擊或噴霧，必須用醫療法所規定的束帶，而束帶必須受過專業訓練才會使用，然後束帶又必須保護他的生命安全，所以我們的保護室已經依照精神醫學會所給的協助，設置了一個保護室裡面可以使用束帶的地方。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"鍾廳長宗霖","start":"2026-08-05T10:45:15.565714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:45:43.030000+08:00","text":"這些法警目前我們都規劃好也正在進行訓練，訓練完、蒐集完我們會寫所謂專門為精神衛生法病人保護使用束帶的指引跟手冊，等到這些專業的種子教官訓練完，我們會擴及到一般法警，都要長年教育訓練，這是非常重要的一環，謝謝委員關注這個議題，以上報告。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:45:43.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:48.007273+08:00","text":"但是這個不用互相騙，你們也必須要意識到一個問題，傳統的法警訓練跟現在精神疾病法庭所設置的法警不同，要先給他們做教育訓練，把他們訓練完之後，跟傳統的法警已經都不一樣了，而待遇部分跟職掌部分，你們訓練一批讓你們覺得是變成精英之後，如果是北三院跟其他你們兩個指標的幾個法院，可能因為案件會比較多，你們有人力的問題，所以就先從這裡開始，被你們叫去再訓練出來，這當然很好，可是問題是，他們訓練後的素質、品質已經算是很高了，但給的待遇還跟一般的傳統法警沒什麼差別，你有沒有覺得會比較奇怪？","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:48.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:58.057778+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我們也希望分級化，可是沒辦法，我們也只能給加班費，可是加班費是有限的，我只能這樣回答委員。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:58.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:02.137143+08:00","text":"這不能說沒辦法，也不是這樣說的。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:02.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:05.065714+08:00","text":"因為這個一定要其他機關的配合啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:05.946667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:07.057778+08:00","text":"尤其講到待遇的部分。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:08.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:17.030000+08:00","text":"我就跟你說，砍預算那麼狠的翁委員，對你們都那麼有菩薩心腸，要支持你們，你不能講沒有辦法啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:17.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:18.137143+08:00","text":"召委，我稍微先講一下……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:19.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:34.980000+08:00","text":"我看翁委員對司法院的部分，像對於法院方面，我們認為有需要，在司法及法制委員會我們真的沒有分黨派，像硬體的設置，到最後如果是老百姓真的要用的，你們總是要去做一個提升嘛！是。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:35.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:51.946667+08:00","text":"你看歐盟、日本，在制度上去做比較的時候，我們總是要銜接上來，人家是有喝過洋墨水的，對這部分去看制度的建置，對整個國家的長遠是有幫助的，那就當然要去做啊！","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:52.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:58.030000+08:00","text":"本席的意思是，那些人都被你們訓練完之後，已經都不是法警了……","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:58.030000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:59.280000+08:00","text":"因為階層……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:59.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:06.155000+08:00","text":"沒有，我的意思是，那個人力的品質跟素質，搞不好他們已經看不上你們那一份薪水了。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:06.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:40.113333+08:00","text":"我們都用想像的，對於精神疾病的部分，到時候你們要訓練法警怎麼去辨識與危機處理，要變成保護性約束的時候、要對身體自由做強制的時候，這時他要分辨出有哪一些特殊的技能，如果完整的教育訓練出來後，叫他做法警可能就不要了，他會要去別的行業，因為他有這麼好的人力素質。","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:40.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:48.030000+08:00","text":"我的意思是，其實待遇這部分長期都偏低，為什麼長期會偏低？","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:48.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:52.780000+08:00","text":"因為一般大家都覺得做法警很涼，就這麼簡單。不會。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:53.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:57.734545+08:00","text":"我是說外界，我們為什麼今天要立法？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:00.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:03.946667+08:00","text":"因為法警跟警察就不一樣，不是嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:04.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:16.080000+08:00","text":"如果法警跟警察是一樣的話，幹嘛我們還要有一個法律的依據給法警，讓他執行職務的時候，基於法律的授權可以做一些什麼，不然警察職權行使法就有了啊！","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:16.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:26.030000+08:00","text":"但他就不是，法警跟警察不一樣，這部分我覺得要去思考，待遇該提升的部分……","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:26.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:30.780000+08:00","text":"我們會往這方面努力，也請委員多多支持。是嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:31.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:34.168889+08:00","text":"你應該要這樣回應，剛剛你回應我說沒辦法，那就可惜我們要支持你們了。","quality":0.433},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:34.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:39.057778+08:00","text":"因為要外機關，所以我們要跟外機關共同努力才有辦法。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:39.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:05.613333+08:00","text":"在公務機關裡面，人力素質、品質越提升的話，對老百姓越有幫助，可是你們把他提升到素質已經很高的時候，他也會去比較，他會覺得他這麼強，卻領你們這麼一點點的待遇，他會覺得這個待遇跟他所做的工作不成比例。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:06.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:30.946667+08:00","text":"我最後要問一個問題是關於科技化，因為人力不夠，所以要借重科技，比如AI，上次秘書長也有說到call center，其實一般民眾會想詢問的，對於整個司法機關、法院能夠提供他們怎樣的好答案，差不多彙整之後，你們說現在有400則嘛！","quality":0.707},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:31.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:34.530000+08:00","text":"不只400則，將近兩、三千則。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:35.708571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:39.030000+08:00","text":"我是說通用、都用得到的核心問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:40.168889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:43.980000+08:00","text":"不只，光通用的，我們司行廳已經1,000則以上。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:44.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:45.480000+08:00","text":"好，1,000則，這樣還更好。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:46.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:51.880000+08:00","text":"然後再把它集中，要再集中，精華的有500則左右。","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:51.880000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:54.280000+08:00","text":"不要說1,000則……","quality":0},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:54.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:54.780000+08:00","text":"是精華。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:55.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:05.946667+08:00","text":"也不用，AI用了之後，不要說1,000則，就算是5,000則，也可以讓它條列，把核心弄出來，還是要善用啦！","quality":0.605},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:06.413333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:08.994286+08:00","text":"對，在call center裡就是要善用AI。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:09.552727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:14.972308+08:00","text":"完全靠人力是不可能的，一定要整個配套進去。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:15.613333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:23.007273+08:00","text":"但是科技、尤其這種系統的建置，就是要讓第一線人員合用。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:26.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:46.905000+08:00","text":"比如說客服，書記官已經快累死了，還有那麼多人要問他林林總總的問題，但民眾或當事人要詢問，你又不能說當事人不能關心，還是要加以提供，那麼該交給科技的就交給科技，行政工作可以儘量簡化。","quality":0.707},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:47.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:58.946667+08:00","text":"我今天問的不只是法警跟書記官的待遇，連司法體系也真的要跟上時代啦！","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:59.502222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:11.113333+08:00","text":"想跟上時代就要花錢，既然要花錢，你們就應該自己設計出一套制度並送進來，畢竟立法委員沒那麼厲害，如果感覺你們制度設計得不錯，大家可以支持。","quality":0.629},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:11.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:17.280000+08:00","text":"但是不能跟我們說你們沒辦法，因為我們等著給你們支持，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:17.280000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:18.280000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席：謝謝莊召委。我稍微聲明一下","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:18.280000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:19.280000+08:00","text":"我雖然砍預算，可是我基本上對司法院預算是支持的，刪的只是憲法法庭預算，因為它現在沒有組成、大法官都沒有到齊，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席：謝謝莊召委。我稍微聲明一下","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:19.280000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:20.280000+08:00","text":"所以我是非分明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:20.280000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:21.280000+08:00","text":"我是要誇獎你。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:19.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:20.480000+08:00","text":"謝謝莊召委。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:20.980000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:26.980000+08:00","text":"接下來是鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:27.280000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:32.137143+08:00","text":"鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:32.437143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:37.294286+08:00","text":"蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:37.594286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:42.737143+08:00","text":"待會林淑芬委員質詢完畢之後先休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:43.037143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:53.322857+08:00","text":"如果陳冠廷委員到場的話就休息5分鐘，如果沒有，或許就等范雲委員質詢完再一起休息。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:53.622857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:57.051429+08:00","text":"接下來有請林淑芬委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}