{"error":false,"id":["170825"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170825,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170825","日期":"2026-08-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-22","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":22,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-05T10:34:07+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-05T11:02:13+08:00","影片長度":"00:28:06","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d053bb9b075f6aeae3bce8928dd31b39cd75ebd3fcd1029c9e152d6567b454d32cf89a319f4586af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳菁徽","委員發言時間":"10:34:07 - 11:02:13","會議時間":"2026-08-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請衛生福利部部長、行政院食品安全辦公室、教育部、國防部、經濟部、台灣糖業股份有限公司及行政院消費者保護處就「從致癌油事件發展迄今，中央一味『蓋牌、吃案、當門神』有關行政究責之重做完整調查報告(含台糖失職、食安警訊斷鏈責任、團體訴訟求償進度)及未來如何確保安全無虞的國軍團膳、學生營養午餐」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n（下午2時30分起，若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、審查行政院函請審議「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、繼續審查委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、繼續審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、繼續審查委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n......（完整內容，詳見議事日程）\n二十、審查委員許宇甄等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、審查委員郭國文等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第七條及第四十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、審查國民黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、審查委員廖偉翔等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第七條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、審查委員李彥秀等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、審查委員羅智強等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十七、審查委員盧縣一等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十八、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十九、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十、審查委員王育敏等25人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十一、審查委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十二、審查委員林月琴等24人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十三、審查委員林淑芬等21人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十五、審查委員李坤城等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十六、審查委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十七、審查委員劉建國等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【逐條討論，不詢答】\n【第二十至二十二案，如經復議則不予審查；第一案及第二十三至三十七案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":6.072218750000001,"end":6.865343750000001,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":7.87784375,"end":14.610968750000001,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"謝署長名冠","start":15.218468750000003,"end":18.57659375,"speaker_score":0.704},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","speaker_name":"謝署長名冠","start":20.871593750000002,"end":21.512843750000002,"speaker_score":0.704},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":21.512843750000002,"end":21.54659375,"speaker_score":0.852},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":22.035968750000002,"end":22.39034375,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":23.14971875,"end":35.85659375,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":36.31221875,"end":48.10784375,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":48.344093750000006,"end":71.83409375000001,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":75.41159375000001,"end":75.85034375000001,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":75.85034375000001,"end":117.90284375,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":119.10096875,"end":143.73846875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":144.04221875000002,"end":145.34159375000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":145.74659375000002,"end":148.46346875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":149.08784375000002,"end":150.35346875000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":150.64034375,"end":169.91159375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":164.59596875,"end":167.41409375,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":167.95409375,"end":178.21409375000002,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":173.99534375000002,"end":174.28221875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":178.55159375000002,"end":187.00596875000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":187.69784375,"end":190.56659375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":191.00534375,"end":196.64159375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":192.20346875,"end":194.85284375,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":195.13971875000001,"end":196.59096875,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":197.33346875,"end":202.61534375000002,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":203.20596875,"end":227.60721875000002,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":207.15471875,"end":207.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":207.94784375,"end":207.96471875,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":207.96471875,"end":207.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":224.24909375000001,"end":224.83971875,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":225.21096875,"end":250.03409375,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":250.32096875000002,"end":255.48471875,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":256.02471875000003,"end":266.95971875000004,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":267.48284375000003,"end":277.25346875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":273.06846875,"end":286.02846875,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":277.25346875,"end":277.27034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":282.67034375000003,"end":293.16659375,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":293.09909375,"end":293.14971875000003,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":293.16659375,"end":296.87909375000004,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":294.63471875000005,"end":295.24221875,"speaker_score":0.96},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":297.73971875,"end":299.17409375,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":299.66346875,"end":300.30471875,"speaker_score":0.846},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員菁徽","start":301.45221875000004,"end":308.539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謝謝陳金火委員的質詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:34:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:34:16.812500+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，謝謝各位官員的列席還有委員的出席。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:34:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:34:21.666667+08:00","text":"我想請石部長、姜署長還有許主任。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:34:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:34:24.400000+08:00","text":"請石部長、姜署長還有許主任。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:34:26.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:34:28.250000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:34:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:34:42.750000+08:00","text":"好，當然你們捲入這個風波，我也感到非常遺憾，不過有議員已經告發你們瀆職，包括石部長、姜署長，昨天則是再加上台糖董事長。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:34:43.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:35:00.777778+08:00","text":"議員昨天已經保全了證據，比如說會議的影音檔或者是監視器，今天則是這些基層人員的名字被披露在報紙上，應該也會一一被叫去詢問關於這個會議的內容。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:35:01.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:35:16.733333+08:00","text":"再來，應該也會傳喚被羈押的總經理還有廠長，所以今天這個議員也在看這段質詢，今天的答詢非常重要，一定要誠實的面對國人、要誠實的報告。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:35:17.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:35:18.750000+08:00","text":"我們先請姜署長。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:35:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:35:22.666667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:35:23.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:35:41.571429+08:00","text":"姜署長，因為您上週不在，所以石部長幫您回復了非常多的問題，可是從我們今天所揭露的資訊、報紙上所看到的資訊，我們發現您才是這場會議的主持人，這場會議決定了20％以上下架，20％以下可以保留。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:35:42.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:35:49.750000+08:00","text":"另外，石部長也在上週幫您回答說，業者是有在這場會議中討論復工。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:35:50.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:36:04.769231+08:00","text":"我想問一下，因為石部長上禮拜是回復這個會議分上、下場次，可是我們今天所有人印象中都停留在會議分上、下場次，從哪邊可以看得出來分上、下場次？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:36:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:36:18.833333+08:00","text":"報告委員，這個會議分成兩個議題，第一個是檢視整個中聯這次的問題，所以我們請了專家在油品製程的部分做進一步的說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:36:19.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:36:55.785714+08:00","text":"第二個部分，我們根據106年下架回收的產品裡面的下架階層，我們是訂在……因為是衛生安全標準，所以是屬於第八類，是在下架那一層，就是中聯製程福壽、福懋、泰山油品的部分，所以在7月我們確定是第一層的時候，關於第一層，我們有聽到不同的聲音，尤其7月3日媒體上一直在討論，我們很清楚的，我們對於第一層的下架是有的，所以我們再重新思考第二個議題……","quality":0.807},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:36:56.263158+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:37:04.714286+08:00","text":"姜署長，我們只需要問出這個會議到底有沒有分上、下兩場，因為石部長上週幫你回答會議分上、下兩場。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:37:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:37:21.875000+08:00","text":"應該是說，我們會議裡面有兩個重要議題，上面第一個議題是中聯相關的，他本身的製程是不是有問題，我們請專家來協助；下半場我們是針對第一層下架之後是不是要往下走，所以這邊特別提到是第二個議程的部分。","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:37:21.875000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:37:24+08:00","text":"這個都知道了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:37:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:37:24.833333+08:00","text":"廠商幾點離開？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:37:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:37:29.666667+08:00","text":"這個會議從3點開到5點，廠商幾點離開？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:37:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:37:32.888889+08:00","text":"廠商應該是有在現場，可是在我們第二層討論的過程……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:37:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:37:34.750000+08:00","text":"廠商全程都在現場？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:37:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:37:51.777778+08:00","text":"沒有，廠商是在我們會議討論的過程當中，進入我們會議的議場，做完說明之後，我們繼續再討論後續的時候，沒有讓廠商做任何的發言，我們是在做第二層的一些思考，該如何去擴大的討論可能要下架的範圍……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:37:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:38:12.600000+08:00","text":"你只要告訴我們……因為剛剛石部長也講得很輕鬆，他今天就會公布全部的會議紀錄，王育敏委員要求他在今天委員會結束以前印出給所有的委員，讓所有的國人知道，所以你沒有什麼好隱瞞的，你只要告訴我們，廠商幾點到幾點在現場？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:38:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:38:33.500000+08:00","text":"我們現在很明顯看到紀錄上有5位你們的同仁，還有食藥署副署長，還有食品組的十幾位同仁，相信這些人很快就可以回憶起來廠商是幾點到幾點在現場，廠商有沒有聽到你們在討論20％上架、下架的原則？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:38:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:38:38.818182+08:00","text":"跟委員做報告，因為這整個紀錄是透明的，今天部長也承諾說……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:38:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:38:39.800000+08:00","text":"其實你現在……","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:38:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:38:41.500000+08:00","text":"所以我的意思是說……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:38:41.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:38:42.500000+08:00","text":"沒有啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:38:42+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:38:50.888889+08:00","text":"我等一下詢答結束前，你告訴我就可以了，因為上禮拜石部長也是在我詢答結束前……","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:38:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:00.166667+08:00","text":"整個會議的過程中，我們結束的時候，他其實是有在現場的，只是他沒有進入任何有關於我們第二階層的討論。好啦！","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:00.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:05.800000+08:00","text":"很明顯了，所以廠商跟著你們到會議結束，許輔主任也是這樣看到的嗎？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:14.750000+08:00","text":"廠商從頭到尾都跟你們在一起，你們在決策的時候，他們也都聽到了，只是他們不能發言，許輔主任，是這樣嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:16.750000+08:00","text":"廠商都在。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:17.750000+08:00","text":"全程都在？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:26.600000+08:00","text":"他進來之後，全都在，他沒有辦……但是我們那個會議是建議，並不是決策。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:40.500000+08:00","text":"所以石部長，你害到你同事了，你上禮拜說中間有請廠商離開，現在旁邊兩個一個主持會議、一個參加會議的人說，廠商全程都在。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:41.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:43.625000+08:00","text":"我們再問姜署長……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:44.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:45.714286+08:00","text":"我跟委員說明……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:39:56.750000+08:00","text":"我要問姜署長，姜署長，你幾月幾日知道台糖14.8 ppb這個事件，你幾月幾日知道的？","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:39:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:40:15.750000+08:00","text":"我的印象應該是七月十幾號，將近十五號以後，約略那個時間，是因為我們的同仁們再次進入中聯去看他所有的油的時候，我們調查報告……","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:40:15.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:40:16.750000+08:00","text":"發現有這個批號？","quality":0},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:40:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:40:23.857143+08:00","text":"7月初其實就已經下架了，之後我們去做調查，所以專家調查之前，我們也做了調查。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:40:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:40:29.666667+08:00","text":"所以你們七月十幾號就已經知道台糖有這一批超標7倍的油？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:40:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:40:38.750000+08:00","text":"這個不是這樣子說，這個油……像後面我認識的好像有脫膠原油，那兩個是長得不太一樣的，所以我的意思是，他的油不是在……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:40:38.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:40:39.750000+08:00","text":"沒關係啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:40:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:40:45.800000+08:00","text":"我的意思是，7月中你就知道有這個油，你8月1日還要叫大家去問高雄市政府，這是什麼意思？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:40:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:41:02.833333+08:00","text":"我說的意思是，因為這個油並不是我們管制的油，所以我不曉得這個油後來的去向，我們後來確定在原來的油槽裡面還有一千多噸，都在裡面沒有移動，這是我們後面才了解、才知道的。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:41:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:41:12.785714+08:00","text":"我們了解的是，油成為成品，油品裡面的30批的油，4到6月的，我們很清楚，所以這和定義上面的油是不太一樣的。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:41:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:41:30.800000+08:00","text":"其實這個邏輯很清楚，您8月1日的時候認為要問高雄市政府，表示您認為高雄市政府應該是這個您後來不知道去向的油的主管機關，不然食藥署不會在第一時間回復媒體說，請媒體去問高雄市政府。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:41:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:41:44.900000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，不能夠這樣說，因為這件事情台糖並沒有跟我們講，我們也不清楚這個油到底在哪裡，且它也不屬於我們管理的範圍內，所以跟委員們特別澄清。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:41:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:41:57.833333+08:00","text":"剛剛許輔主任有提到，這場會議所有的中聯關係人全部在場，專家學者正在討論，但是說討論出來的是一個建議，並不是決策，剛剛許輔主任講得非常清楚。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:41:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:03.800000+08:00","text":"最後做出20％以上要下架這個決策的是誰？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:05.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:06.666667+08:00","text":"姜署長，誰做的？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:08.833333+08:00","text":"因為您是主持這個會議的人。","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:21.714286+08:00","text":"我想我們邀請來專家會議裡面的，根據我們知道的，各國的，其實跟我們一樣嚴格的韓國跟歐盟，面對只要油品在這一類，其實都是採同樣的做法……","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:23.800000+08:00","text":"我只是問你誰決策的，你只要告訴我是誰決策的就好。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:26.800000+08:00","text":"都是在第一層下架，所以我們在第二層的是特殊的情形下……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:28.500000+08:00","text":"是誰決策的？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:31.666667+08:00","text":"這些大家都已經很熟了，誰決策的？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:40.812500+08:00","text":"整個專家給予建議完之後，對於會議的結論我有做裁示，原來專家整體的會議是這樣子的結論……","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:40.812500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:41.906250+08:00","text":"對，所以最後是你決定的？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:41.906250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:43+08:00","text":"所以最後決策的結論是這樣子做下來……","quality":0.188},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:45.769231+08:00","text":"參考專家的意見，所以是您決策的？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:46.705882+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:51.875000+08:00","text":"對，決策所做出來這個會議的結論是這個，所以進一步這個會議結論是達到這樣的共識。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:53.600000+08:00","text":"好，了解，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:54.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:42:55.777778+08:00","text":"請許主任先回座。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:42:58.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:43:27.666667+08:00","text":"石部長，上禮拜我在這邊說，我想要會議紀錄，也想要中聯在裡面列席的時候跟你們報告了什麼，中聯可以知道這些學者名單，可是你這個報告我7月30日索資了，當場你跟我說會後馬上會給我，我7月30日跟您要中聯到底在你們的20％會議裡面呈現了哪些資料，因為他也有可能影響到你後續專家學者的建議，不是嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:43:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:43:31.916667+08:00","text":"人民也想知道，我們國會議員也想知道，你為什麼到現在還不能給我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:43:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:43:33.750000+08:00","text":"你什麼時候要給我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:43:34.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:43:53.750000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我那一天就已經提到，全部的資料都送給檢調，因為這包含了當時召集會議的時候，檢調還沒有把相關人等列為嫌疑人，所以當時候是這樣。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:43:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:03.818182+08:00","text":"後面既然已經列為嫌疑人，當然我們就把所有的資料都移送給檢調一併查明，所以當時候我的處理是這樣。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:03.818182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:04.818182+08:00","text":"幾月幾號送檢調？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:08.714286+08:00","text":"你上週跟王育敏委員說你送檢調，幾月幾號送檢調？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:10.714286+08:00","text":"非常早就送檢調了，把資料就送給檢調了。","quality":0.412},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:16.500000+08:00","text":"送檢調跟給我們看、給全國人民看不衝突啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:20.666667+08:00","text":"中聯在你們會議中報告了什麼，我們不能知道？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:22.750000+08:00","text":"不衝突啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:29.636364+08:00","text":"我們現在在調查的是行政責任，檢調在調查的是刑事責任。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:31.777778+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，沒有問題……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:31.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:32.777778+08:00","text":"你可以給我們嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:33.666667+08:00","text":"我們今天就會發布。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:45.500000+08:00","text":"今天把中聯在你們會議上的資料及會議紀錄給全部的委員，我看你們的吹哨者也報越來越多了嘛！可以。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:45.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:46.500000+08:00","text":"好，那就這樣子。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:52.750000+08:00","text":"因為我們之前都已經陸續提供給一些索資的委員了，所以我們這次就乾脆把它發布，以正視聽。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:44:58.833333+08:00","text":"我們也要中聯報告的那份資料，在這邊一定要講清楚，因為我已經要了一個禮拜了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:44:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:45:03.750000+08:00","text":"中聯報告的就是在會上提供的，就是7月3號在臺中市的那一份。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:45:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:45:08.800000+08:00","text":"對，會上提供給專家學者，還有你們的……你就給我們嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:45:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:45:10.777778+08:00","text":"你壓了一個禮拜，幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:45:11.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:45:12.833333+08:00","text":"那一天就已經都有檔案了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:45:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:45:15.846154+08:00","text":"就是7月3號在臺中市所提供的那一份資料。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:45:17.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:45:25.777778+08:00","text":"臺中裁罰了中聯跟福懋各300萬，是因為沒有通報超標七倍的這些致癌油。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:45:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:45:34.727273+08:00","text":"您認同臺中市政府用食安法第七條第五項裁罰這兩家廠商嗎？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:45:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:45:59.727273+08:00","text":"福懋拿的是產品，中聯出來的已經是食用油脂了，不是脫膠原油，它交給福懋的是食用油脂，食用油脂是產品，符合食安法第七條應該通報的對象，所以處分福懋是這個道理。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:08.857143+08:00","text":"中聯也是一樣，它的成品被南僑驗出超標，而且通報給福壽，福壽再告知中聯……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:10.777778+08:00","text":"我在講的是8月3號晚上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:11.666667+08:00","text":"哪一個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:18.600000+08:00","text":"8月3號晚上，我在講的是8月3號晚上，一案歸一案！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:21.625000+08:00","text":"這個是台糖的新案。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:25.600000+08:00","text":"這是臺中市政府的處分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:32.727273+08:00","text":"這是他們的處分，看他們自己的理由是什麼，他們要查清楚之後才去開罰。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:35.785714+08:00","text":"你剛剛不是把中聯講得很糟糕嗎？對。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:37.818182+08:00","text":"你現在不認同他們的裁罰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:39.833333+08:00","text":"中聯很糟糕，福懋也很糟糕。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:41.500000+08:00","text":"你不認同？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:42+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:44.833333+08:00","text":"我沒有說我不認同，我需要去理解……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:46.454545+08:00","text":"臺中市政府裁罰他們各罰300萬。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:46.818182+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:50.800000+08:00","text":"我需要去理解臺中市政府的開罰是什麼，是針對哪一項開罰。","quality":0.52},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:46:58.625000+08:00","text":"我寫在旁邊給你了，5月未通報台糖採購原料異常，臺中市府再各罰300萬。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:46:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:04.750000+08:00","text":"採購原料異常是指採購黃豆異常，還是採購什麼異常？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:14.750000+08:00","text":"中聯是採購的原料，中聯的原料是黃豆，是罰它黃豆的採購異常，還是罰什麼？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:31.700000+08:00","text":"不是，他們是在罰它，台糖5月往回報的這一批，即你現在口中不肯承認是原料的東西，回報福懋還有中聯，但是它們兩個沒有通報。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:47:40.600000+08:00","text":"我剛剛在報告裡面講得很清楚，如果就食用油脂的製造，黃豆是原料，脫膠原油是中間產品、半成品。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:47:42+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:07.800000+08:00","text":"我就問你，因為你是主管機關，是中央最高的主管機關，中聯、福懋知道台糖拿到了一批現在你口中不承認是原料的東西，沒有告訴中央主管機關，也沒有告訴地方政府，所以被罰了，你認不認同？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:22.666667+08:00","text":"所有的主管機關無論是中央跟地方，都要依法行政，所有的處分都要具明法源依據跟裁罰的原因、理由，就是這樣。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:27.666667+08:00","text":"OK，你講得很清楚，你認不認同，還是你要說你不認同？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:27.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:28.666667+08:00","text":"你是在講……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:35.777778+08:00","text":"如果你一定要問我這個問題，我會請臺中市政府跟我報告，說委員關心他們的裁罰依據，請來衛福部報告。","quality":0.674},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:38.181818+08:00","text":"裁罰依據已經寫在上面給你看了。沒有！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:38.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:39.818182+08:00","text":"我們需要看到裁處書。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:39.818182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:40.818182+08:00","text":"我剛剛講得那麼清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:42.666667+08:00","text":"裁處書才是裁罰依據。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:48.700000+08:00","text":"所以你現在還沒有辦法下判斷，回答你認同或不認同？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:49.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:48:55.857143+08:00","text":"對委員的詢問，我非常重視，所以我必須把所有的事情搞清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:48:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:00.750000+08:00","text":"因為委員關心，我會請臺中市政府來跟我報告。","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:06.500000+08:00","text":"下一個請台糖副總。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:29.714286+08:00","text":"剛剛石部長不想回答問題，其實蠻簡單的，如果它有通報，過去一個月吃下接近3萬噸的毒油也許不會出現，這麼簡單的道理……","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:29.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:33+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:35.857143+08:00","text":"你的梗圖都在做葉片了，你拿油上來幹嘛？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:37.777778+08:00","text":"你拿葉片上來就好啦！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:45.727273+08:00","text":"這邊問你一個簡單的問題，葉片跟致癌油可以類比嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:49:58.800000+08:00","text":"葉片是用眼睛看的，致癌油是你們用外面檢驗單位的機器公正驗出14 ppb，你們到底在寫什麼東西？","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:49:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:05.142857+08:00","text":"葉片是用眼睛看的，致癌物是致癌物。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:10.666667+08:00","text":"再來是餐廳，經濟部也上來。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:17.333333+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:17.333333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:20+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:25.800000+08:00","text":"經濟部還有台糖的長官，你們想要告訴人民什麼？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:28.666667+08:00","text":"葉片跟致癌油一樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:31.625000+08:00","text":"你們想說的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:32.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:39.571429+08:00","text":"台糖依規依法來辦理，我們可以看到黃豆的粗油……大豆沙拉油……","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:48.750000+08:00","text":"沒有，我沒有在問葉片，我們沒有要……主席，他沒有回答我的問題，而且我也不想要看到油放在桌上，可以把油拿下去了。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:50:53.714286+08:00","text":"油等你等一下自己專題報告，再拿上來就好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:50:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:01.750000+08:00","text":"我只是在問你們兩個，經濟部跟台糖的社會溝通到底做到哪裡去了？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:14.700000+08:00","text":"葉片，眼睛看的；苯駢芘，機器驗出來的，超標七倍就是超標七倍，葉片跟油的關係在哪裡？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:15.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:17.866667+08:00","text":"現在第一個，你告訴我，你的社會溝通是什麼意思？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:18.666667+08:00","text":"看不懂！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:23.750000+08:00","text":"第二個，我會知道是那一家餐廳、哪一攤嗎？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:31.750000+08:00","text":"你現在就明確知道哪一家的油出來是14 ppb，這兩個可以類比嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:32.500000+08:00","text":"你講啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:33.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:34.714286+08:00","text":"次長，可以回答了。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:51:49.800000+08:00","text":"剛剛部長已經說了，台糖的作為是依照食安法的規定來辦理，台糖對原料的採購也依照採購契約允收的標準進行相關處理，這是第一點。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T10:51:50.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:05.727273+08:00","text":"第二點，經濟部始終非常重視不管是消費者或通路廠商的各項權益，所以台糖公司在這個角色上面，必須要依法依規來辦理。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:09.714286+08:00","text":"沒有聽到葉片，葉片跟油一樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:27.800000+08:00","text":"不是，台糖在法規裡面扮演了一個角色，畢竟它是透過契約去採購原料，而且臺中地方法院的新聞稿也有提到，應該通報的責任是中聯……","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:32.714286+08:00","text":"大家現在可以馬上上台糖的官網，看台糖的使命為何？","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:33.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:52:49.812500+08:00","text":"台糖公司在臺灣是一家老字號的國營企業，最家喻戶曉的品牌，所以他們肩負了配合國家政策、照顧民生需求、基本企業責任，還要跟社會產生連結，我現在都不知道你們連結到哪裡去了？","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:52:50.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:53:18.666667+08:00","text":"配合國家政策不就包括每年跟我們要這麼多預算，過去十年七百多億的食安五環、食品雲，還有邊境協防，每一種有毒的東西連邊境都進不來，食藥署要幫我們把關，從原料到餐桌，每一樣東西都很安心，而台糖也是配合國家政策的一分子。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:53:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:53:24.692308+08:00","text":"你自己看看你們的使命跟現在做出來的事情吻合嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:53:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:53:25.800000+08:00","text":"不用回答了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:53:28.777778+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:53:53.571429+08:00","text":"再請石部長，如果你要說這個只算蘇丹紅的話，你就簡短說明，你們自己113年因為蘇丹紅這種工業顏料混進了食品、化妝品，你們做了好多的說明會告訴業者，發現原料或是產品有危害衛生之虞就要主動通報。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:53:53.571429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:53:54.571429+08:00","text":"你們是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:53:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:53:56.800000+08:00","text":"那個指的是非法添加，這個不一樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:53:57.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:01.714286+08:00","text":"蘇丹紅不是中間的產品，是違法添加。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:06.705882+08:00","text":"部長，你知道你現在在大開一個邪惡之門嗎？不是。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:08.750000+08:00","text":"你剛剛舉了好多歪理。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:08.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:09.750000+08:00","text":"不一樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:30.875000+08:00","text":"你今天在這邊講的話，從現在開始、從這一分鐘開始，毒麵粉還沒進工廠、還沒進門被抓到，他就說他等一下要做糨糊，這不是給人吃的；毒糖被抓到，他就說這個等一下是要做工業酒精的，對吧？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:31.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:32.600000+08:00","text":"可以做工業酒精，對不對？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:34.777778+08:00","text":"糖也可以做工業酒精？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:35.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:38.555556+08:00","text":"這個是大開邪惡之門！沒有。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:43.700000+08:00","text":"他只要說這個東西後面有可能是人吃的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:43.700000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:44.700000+08:00","text":"我必須跟委員說明，你引用的法條不對！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:47.750000+08:00","text":"後面有可能不是人吃的，就脫罪了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:01.750000+08:00","text":"你引用的法條不對，如果是違法添加進去的，是違反了食安法第十五條第一項規定，會處六萬到兩億的罰鍰，那是不一樣的東西。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:11.333333+08:00","text":"我講的東西可能是苯駢芘超標的麵粉，也可能是苯駢芘超標的糖，不是嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:12.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:13.666667+08:00","text":"它就不適用了？糖……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:14.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:17.750000+08:00","text":"它們也可以做成很多不是人在吃的東西。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:18.666667+08:00","text":"糖沒有苯駢芘啊！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:18.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:20+08:00","text":"麵粉也沒有苯駢芘啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:29.333333+08:00","text":"不管如何，它們還是會有超標的東西在裡面，不是嗎？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:36.714286+08:00","text":"我們沒有在訂原料的標準，我們要看訂的是哪一個，我們剛剛提到的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:36.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:37.714286+08:00","text":"等一下，部長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:37.692308+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:39.769231+08:00","text":"苯駢芘是訂在食用油脂的標準。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:43.600000+08:00","text":"部長，你就跟我講清楚，這個東西……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:43.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:45.538462+08:00","text":"非法添加，不能添加的就是不能添加。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:45.538462+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:53.750000+08:00","text":"113年你發布的新聞稿，你就告訴大家好了，你現在就告訴全國國人，你就只針對蘇丹紅！","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:55.600000+08:00","text":"不是蘇丹紅。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:55.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:56.600000+08:00","text":"不是蘇丹紅？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:56.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:01.750000+08:00","text":"不能夠添加的……蘇丹紅是舉例，因為它是不得添加，不得添加。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:05.818182+08:00","text":"你自己的簡報寫得很清楚啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:09.500000+08:00","text":"危害衛生安全之虞！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:10.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:13.857143+08:00","text":"是違法添加就已經違反了……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:13.857143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:15+08:00","text":"你的違法添加有寫在上面嗎？","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:18.692308+08:00","text":"違法添加就違反了第十五條的規定。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽：你上面幫人家做教育訓練是","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:23.750000+08:00","text":"危害衛生安全之虞！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽：你上面幫人家做教育訓練是","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:26.727273+08:00","text":"現在又要硬拗成違法添加？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:29.625000+08:00","text":"你這個是斷章取義，它上面寫得很清楚啊！","quality":0.471},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:31.818182+08:00","text":"我跟你講，我沒有斷章取義！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:31.818182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:32.818182+08:00","text":"這是斷章取義啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:01.600000+08:00","text":"我們看監察院的調查報告，你會覺得有濃濃的既視感，113年監察院的調查報告都寫得很清楚，那個時候發生蘇丹紅事件，他們說：惟食品業者訂定之食品安全監測計畫，未有陳報主管機關之規定，故針對原料、半成品及成品之檢驗項目，任由業者自行評估擇定，致本案案關業者未將蘇丹色素納為辣椒（粉）之風險檢驗項目，難以真實反映潛藏食安風險，主管機關無從事先覺察。","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:22.785714+08:00","text":"又，本案存在諸多以虛偽樣本送檢、檢驗結果不合格，遭下游公司退貨後仍持續出貨予其他不知情公司，甚至變造檢驗報告以取信下游廠商，送檢不合格後業者未主動通報主管機關等違規情形。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:29.777778+08:00","text":"113年監察院告訴你的事情，現在就活生生的又出現在我們的面前了！","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:29.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:30.777778+08:00","text":"你看監察院……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:30.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:31.777778+08:00","text":"不得添加的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:34.636364+08:00","text":"你看監察院的右邊寫什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:36.777778+08:00","text":"依法不得添加的東西……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:36.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:37.777778+08:00","text":"監察院的右邊寫……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:38.714286+08:00","text":"委員，請你聽我說清楚了……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:38.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:39.714286+08:00","text":"這個整篇在寫蘇丹紅！","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:58.600000+08:00","text":"不得添加的東西，不論在原料或者是產品，都是不得添加，如果是訂安全衛生標準的，它就會訂出它的適用產品，是什麼產品的什麼物質的標準，這是兩回事，不能混為一談！","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:58.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:59.600000+08:00","text":"你把它混為一談了！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:20.666667+08:00","text":"部長，請你看監察院的調查報告，它最後是用食安法第七條第五項，所以它說業者之產品原材料、半成品、成品送驗後，檢驗結果為不合格，須依食安法第七條第五項規定，主動停止製造……並通報地方主管機關！","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:23.800000+08:00","text":"現在我們要相信監察院，還是相信你的法條解釋？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:29.714286+08:00","text":"監察院在這邊寫了，第七條第五項……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:36.666667+08:00","text":"我剛剛講了，不得添加的東西，無論是在原料還是在產品，都是不得添加！","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:48.727273+08:00","text":"但是如果是安全衛生標準，按照第十五條訂出的，就要看它的適用品項跟它的標準是什麼，這是兩回事，不能混為一談！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:56.714286+08:00","text":"我們請台糖回答，如果你們平常有一些問題，你們是通報給誰？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:57.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:00.888889+08:00","text":"根據你們的SOP，食用油出問題，你們通報哪一個單位？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:01.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:06+08:00","text":"我們一定會通報食用油的主管機關。誰？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:11.200000+08:00","text":"高雄市政府。OK！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:11.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:19.727273+08:00","text":"因為現在他們兩邊一直在踢皮球，高雄市政府說蒐集很多資料給臺南，臺南又說沒有，是歸高雄管！","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:24.857143+08:00","text":"好，我們現在聽到你說是高雄市政府，那我們知道了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:42.846154+08:00","text":"不過剛剛也有念出你們成立的宗旨，最終人民還是希望國營企業負起國營企業該有的責任，你們只要當時有通報把關，後面這幾萬噸吃下去的毒油就不會在我們國人的肚子裡了！","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:44.333333+08:00","text":"請回座。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:00:00.777778+08:00","text":"是，跟委員報告，就台糖公司的認知，脫膠的粗油是不能吃的，它不是可以吃的，所以它不是食品，我們的認知是它本身不是……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:00:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:00:12.750000+08:00","text":"我跟你說，你只要通報，他們當時去查中聯，他們會查出更多、更多、更多最後會讓人家吃下去的東西。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:00:13.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:00:17.500000+08:00","text":"可以請四位先回座，我們留石部長，謝謝四位。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:00:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:00:26.714286+08:00","text":"石部長，上禮拜你就說你不是食安專家，而我也不是食安專家，所以我們都不應該表達自己的意見。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:00:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:00:35.666667+08:00","text":"今天我們有食安專家了──姜至剛；還有法律專家──高檢署主任檢察官陳宏達；還有一位公衛專家──詹長權。","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:00:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:00:39.700000+08:00","text":"他們的發言，我不知道你要不要採納啦！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:00:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:00:55.625000+08:00","text":"一個說通報是法定義務，並非行政機關給人民的恩惠，另外一位公衛教授說，這不只是食安的問題，更是公共治理跟政府誠信的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:00:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:00.666667+08:00","text":"還是你覺得，你還是最懂公衛跟檢視法條的人？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:08.777778+08:00","text":"通報是法定義務，在食安法明定的通報義務很清楚，這一句話絕對是對的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:13.600000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，你覺得你懂法律，比高檢署主任檢察官還懂，那詹長權呢？","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:14.461538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:15.846154+08:00","text":"我不知道詹長權說的是什麼。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:16.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:20.750000+08:00","text":"他說的東西，我已經寫在上面了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:22.090909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:39.777778+08:00","text":"苯駢芘的標準是定在產品，也就是食用油脂，苯駢芘的標準不是定在脫膠原油，我還是要再強調，脫膠原油後續會經過脫酸、脫色、脫臭，最高可以降低80％到88％的苯駢芘……","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:43.750000+08:00","text":"其實大家都聽懂了，以後我們都知道了，這七百多億的……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:44.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:46.700000+08:00","text":"所以苯駢芘是訂在食用油脂。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:00.750000+08:00","text":"其實我就下一個結論，這七百多億的食安五環，環環不斷鏈、從源頭開始管理、自主通報，還有這些預警機制，去掉了脫膠原油，就是這個結論，謝謝。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:02.800000+08:00","text":"食用油脂廠……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:02.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:03.800000+08:00","text":"結束了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:03.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:04.600000+08:00","text":"他必須要去……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員菁徽","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:05.666667+08:00","text":"結束了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:05.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:06.666667+08:00","text":"結束了，我會繼續問你。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:06.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:07.800000+08:00","text":"他必須去改善他的製程啦！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:12.727273+08:00","text":"好，謝謝陳菁徽委員的質詢。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:13.227273+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:16.370130+08:00","text":"接下來請王育敏委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}