{"error":false,"id":["170835"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170835,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170835","日期":"2026-08-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-15-22","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":22,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-05T10:41:16+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-05T10:49:04+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:48","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d053bb9b075f6aea845eee25f229d6005034063ebe585f569e152d6567b454d35f9a43187052e4375ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李柏毅","委員發言時間":"10:41:16 - 10:49:04","會議時間":"2026-08-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例」：(一)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等18人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例增訂第九十三條之四條文草案」案。(二)審查委員林楚茵等24人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第十八條之一條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第六十九條條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員李柏毅等20人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例第十八條之一條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「臺灣地區與大陸地區人民關係條例部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查「香港澳門關係條例」：(一)繼續審查委員張宏陸等20人擬具「香港澳門關係條例第十四條、第十四條之一及第四十七條之一條文修正草案」案。(二)審查委員李柏毅等16人擬具「香港澳門關係條例部分條文修正草案」案。【僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.06471875,"end":0.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.16596875,"end":0.21659375000000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.21659375000000003,"end":0.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.44846875,"end":1.8872187500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.11471875,"end":4.8572187499999995},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.71721875,"end":11.62409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.67471875,"end":13.395968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.46721875,"end":20.669093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.46221875,"end":27.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.570968750000002,"end":29.730968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.984093750000003,"end":37.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.34159375,"end":38.235968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.70846875,"end":39.53534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.17659375,"end":42.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.243468750000005,"end":45.188468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.67784375,"end":47.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.66909375,"end":49.87971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.77846875,"end":50.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.89659375,"end":49.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.08221875,"end":50.85846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.617843750000006,"end":55.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.258468750000006,"end":59.751593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.80221875,"end":62.77221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.126593750000005,"end":64.88159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.53971875,"end":66.01221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.56909375000001,"end":68.10471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.45909375000001,"end":85.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":75.71534375,"end":76.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.37346875,"end":76.84596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.19909375,"end":85.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.41846875,"end":85.72221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.72221875000001,"end":99.88034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.88034375000001,"end":99.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.31471875000001,"end":101.33159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.33159375000001,"end":111.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":111.76034375,"end":115.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.24909375,"end":152.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.43534375000002,"end":139.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.59846875000002,"end":150.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.55596875,"end":152.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.22659375,"end":161.42346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.13784375,"end":153.76221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.00596875000002,"end":162.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.04784375,"end":165.16971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.79034375,"end":162.92534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.16971875000002,"end":206.42909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.51534375,"end":194.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.63159375,"end":229.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.40159375000002,"end":220.67159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.05409375000002,"end":253.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.59909375,"end":269.77784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.21471875,"end":255.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.45846875,"end":261.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":262.87596875,"end":263.23034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.32721875000004,"end":264.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":266.89221875000004,"end":267.21284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.38534375,"end":279.48096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.07159375000003,"end":282.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.81784375,"end":284.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.03721875,"end":284.93159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.80909375000005,"end":287.24346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":287.83409375,"end":294.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.69409375000004,"end":297.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.76971875000004,"end":295.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.63409375000003,"end":314.56409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.74784375,"end":300.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.79409375,"end":302.43096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":302.81909375000004,"end":303.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":312.23534375,"end":313.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.19284375,"end":314.54721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.56409375000004,"end":314.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.61471875,"end":314.63159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.88471875000005,"end":319.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.42471875,"end":315.79596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.35659375,"end":327.67596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.85846875000004,"end":321.51659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.67596875000004,"end":327.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.70971875000004,"end":327.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.72659375,"end":327.77721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.77721875000003,"end":327.96284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":327.96284375000005,"end":337.49721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":338.12159375000005,"end":339.20159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.20159375000003,"end":339.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.77534375000005,"end":339.79221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.79221875,"end":341.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.08721875000003,"end":343.26846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":343.48784375,"end":344.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.61846875000003,"end":364.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.95409375,"end":359.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.26971875000004,"end":363.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":364.96971875,"end":368.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":365.05409375000005,"end":365.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.05346875000004,"end":369.45846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":369.67784375,"end":388.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.64596875,"end":386.95784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":388.30784375,"end":389.20221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":389.05034375,"end":390.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.60284375000003,"end":390.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":390.97409375,"end":397.21784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.10909375,"end":391.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":395.41221875,"end":395.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":396.96471875000003,"end":397.11659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":397.21784375000004,"end":397.58909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":397.58909375,"end":399.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":398.46659375,"end":398.83784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.66471875,"end":402.66846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.14096875,"end":407.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.37221875,"end":411.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.50659375000004,"end":420.13409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":416.97846875000005,"end":417.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":419.69534375,"end":425.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":425.36534375,"end":432.79034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.17846875000004,"end":435.81096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.19909375000003,"end":436.84034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":436.95846875,"end":437.70096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.86971875,"end":440.28284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.24471875,"end":444.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.12596875,"end":446.39159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.74596875000003,"end":447.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":448.09596875000005,"end":449.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.63159375000004,"end":450.94784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.35284375000003,"end":452.24721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.44971875000005,"end":453.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.76596875,"end":454.22159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.40721875,"end":456.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.04409375,"end":457.81596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":458.00159375000004,"end":461.24159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":461.24159375000005,"end":461.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":461.30909375000005,"end":463.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.58721875000003,"end":465.44346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.75159375000004,"end":464.98784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":466.10159375,"end":466.81034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":5.1000000000000005,"text":"對 好 謝謝"},{"start":9.6,"end":11.6,"text":"好 謝謝 有請邱主委"},{"start":11.6,"end":13.6,"text":"邱主委 謝謝"},{"start":16.4,"end":17.2,"text":"李委員好"},{"start":17.2,"end":20.8,"text":"邏輯清楚啦 邏輯清楚的意思就是說"},{"start":21.3,"end":23.3,"text":"這兩岸的制度齁"},{"start":23.6,"end":27.3,"text":"你沒有辦法完全拿來做對等的比較啦"},{"start":27.6,"end":29.8,"text":"邏輯清楚的意思就是說"},{"start":30,"end":34,"text":"在台灣你買房地產跟在中國買房地產"},{"start":34,"end":35.7,"text":"那個概念也完全不一樣"},{"start":35.7,"end":37.2,"text":"中國有沒有土地所有權"},{"start":37.2,"end":39.7,"text":"中國的土地是國家的"},{"start":39.7,"end":42.7,"text":"台灣的土地為什麼稀有"},{"start":44,"end":45.5,"text":"為什麼珍貴"},{"start":45.5,"end":47.5,"text":"台灣土地可以民有"},{"start":47.5,"end":50,"text":"所以跟這個國家概念是不一樣的"},{"start":50,"end":51,"text":"第二個"},{"start":51.5,"end":56,"text":"站在國家安全的立場來出發的話"},{"start":56,"end":59.7,"text":"這一些收容萬一有了空窗期"},{"start":59.7,"end":62.7,"text":"對台灣社會是造成影響的"},{"start":62.7,"end":64.7,"text":"所以我們必須要這樣子做"},{"start":64.7,"end":66,"text":"不來"},{"start":66,"end":68,"text":"中國不接他們回去"},{"start":68,"end":71.7,"text":"用台灣的法治來影響台灣的生活"},{"start":71.7,"end":73,"text":"影響台灣的治安"},{"start":73,"end":76.2,"text":"這確實是中國要做的影響的事情"},{"start":76.2,"end":78.5,"text":"所以今天來提出這個修法"},{"start":78.5,"end":81,"text":"那剛剛邱主委也有說過"},{"start":81,"end":84.7,"text":"其實對我們這個修法的方向上是滿一致"},{"start":85.2,"end":86.2,"text":"非常感謝"},{"start":86.2,"end":91.2,"text":"但我也會尊重行政院這邊的後續的這些討論"},{"start":91.2,"end":93.7,"text":"行政院這邊可能還有一些意見要進來"},{"start":93.7,"end":96.2,"text":"所以我還是會等院板這邊的意見一起進來"},{"start":96.2,"end":98.2,"text":"我們再來做一個逐條的討論"},{"start":98.2,"end":100.2,"text":"來 主委請你回應"},{"start":101.2,"end":103.2,"text":"是 謝謝委員"},{"start":103.2,"end":105.7,"text":"您的修法的這些概念"},{"start":105.7,"end":109.2,"text":"跟我們的構想是完全一致的"},{"start":109.2,"end":111.2,"text":"我們首先要感謝您的辛勞"},{"start":111.7,"end":114.7,"text":"那確實我們這幾年"},{"start":114.7,"end":119.7,"text":"我們都希望我們抓到的這個不想偷渡犯"},{"start":119.7,"end":122.7,"text":"或者是在台灣犯了我們的刑法"},{"start":122.7,"end":124.7,"text":"刑滿"},{"start":124.7,"end":126.7,"text":"完了這些人犯"},{"start":126.7,"end":129.7,"text":"能夠順利依照遣返的程序"},{"start":129.7,"end":130.7,"text":"回到中國大陸"},{"start":130.7,"end":131.7,"text":"那他們不願意接受"},{"start":131.7,"end":133.2,"text":"但很遺憾的"},{"start":133.2,"end":135.2,"text":"那麼他們常常"},{"start":135.2,"end":139.2,"text":"比如說最近遣返是兩年前才遣返的"},{"start":139.7,"end":142.7,"text":"最近一次是6月有處理過一次"},{"start":142.7,"end":145.7,"text":"但是今年6月那一次"},{"start":145.7,"end":148.2,"text":"另外再前一次是超過兩年"},{"start":148.2,"end":151.2,"text":"所以中國大陸累積了非常多的這些"},{"start":153.2,"end":155.2,"text":"那時候現行的法律這個"},{"start":155.2,"end":156.2,"text":"你超過兩年了"},{"start":156.2,"end":158.2,"text":"現行法律150天"},{"start":158.2,"end":159.7,"text":"其他這500天"},{"start":159.7,"end":161.7,"text":"長期在台灣替代收容"},{"start":162.7,"end":164.2,"text":"替代收容是什麼意思"},{"start":164.2,"end":165.2,"text":"你再白話一點"},{"start":165.2,"end":165.7,"text":"是"},{"start":165.7,"end":168.7,"text":"我們那個移民署的所謂的收容"},{"start":168.7,"end":170.2,"text":"他有暫語收容"},{"start":170.2,"end":171.2,"text":"續語收容"},{"start":171.2,"end":172.7,"text":"延長收容"},{"start":172.7,"end":175.2,"text":"我們在大陸人士是150天"},{"start":175.2,"end":178.2,"text":"外國人是100天"},{"start":178.2,"end":180.7,"text":"那這150天之後呢"},{"start":180.7,"end":183.2,"text":"依法他們就不能再收容了"},{"start":183.2,"end":185.2,"text":"就要採取"},{"start":185.2,"end":187.7,"text":"由社會團體來替代收容"},{"start":187.7,"end":189.7,"text":"那可能找慈善單位"},{"start":189.7,"end":192.2,"text":"可能找其他的配合"},{"start":192.2,"end":194.2,"text":"宗教單位來協助"},{"start":194.2,"end":196.7,"text":"所以就是自由的在台灣生活了嗎"},{"start":196.7,"end":200.7,"text":"當然要定期回到移民署去做報到"},{"start":200.7,"end":203.2,"text":"那只是這個管理"},{"start":203.2,"end":206.2,"text":"往往他大部分時間都在外面"},{"start":206.2,"end":209.2,"text":"那尤其我們的民眾可能不曉得"},{"start":209.2,"end":211.2,"text":"他周遭有很多的"},{"start":211.2,"end":213.2,"text":"曾經有犯過刑罰的"},{"start":213.2,"end":215.7,"text":"不管是偷渡犯或刑事犯"},{"start":215.7,"end":217.2,"text":"這些大陸人士"},{"start":217.2,"end":220.2,"text":"在外面替代收容可能跟他生活在一起"},{"start":220.2,"end":222.2,"text":"其實這個對於我們的社區"},{"start":222.2,"end":224.2,"text":"對於我們的社會治安"},{"start":224.2,"end":225.2,"text":"並不好"},{"start":225.2,"end":228.2,"text":"那由於是中國大陸造成的"},{"start":228.2,"end":230.7,"text":"他不把人犯遣返回去"},{"start":230.7,"end":232.2,"text":"造成我們的困局"},{"start":232.2,"end":235.2,"text":"所以我們今天很感謝委員這個修法"},{"start":235.2,"end":238.2,"text":"讓我們可以再延長收容"},{"start":238.2,"end":239.7,"text":"那就沒有這個問題"},{"start":239.7,"end":242.2,"text":"我們還是要把他收到移民署"},{"start":242.2,"end":245.2,"text":"當然會增加移民署的很多的負擔"},{"start":245.2,"end":247.2,"text":"我想將來這個制度"},{"start":247.2,"end":250.2,"text":"也應該要增加移民署的能量"},{"start":250.2,"end":252.7,"text":"包括人力 包括經費的提供"},{"start":252.7,"end":255.2,"text":"這個移民署過去其實很有經驗"},{"start":255.2,"end":259.7,"text":"過去很多大陸的偷渡客的年代到現在"},{"start":259.7,"end":261.2,"text":"其實移民署還是很有經驗"},{"start":261.2,"end":262.7,"text":"對於收容的這個部分"},{"start":262.7,"end":264.2,"text":"但是我們要把它法制化"},{"start":264.2,"end":267.2,"text":"不要讓國安有破口"},{"start":267.2,"end":270.2,"text":"接下來我要跟你談兩岸直航的問題"},{"start":270.2,"end":272.2,"text":"中國最近對我們喊話"},{"start":272.2,"end":274.2,"text":"希望台灣政府先開"},{"start":274.2,"end":277.2,"text":"烏魯木齊 西安 哈爾濱 昆明 蘭州"},{"start":277.2,"end":278.2,"text":"五個直航航點"},{"start":278.2,"end":283.2,"text":"請問主委他們現在對自由行開放了嗎"},{"start":283.2,"end":285.2,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":285.2,"end":287.2,"text":"他這些五個航點"},{"start":287.2,"end":291.2,"text":"都還是目的在吸納我們的觀光客"},{"start":291.2,"end":292.2,"text":"到中國大陸去觀光"},{"start":292.2,"end":293.2,"text":"對 所以我的問題是"},{"start":293.2,"end":298.2,"text":"這五個城市的自由行開放了嗎"},{"start":298.2,"end":300.2,"text":"沒有 沒有 他們只有"},{"start":300.2,"end":303.2,"text":"對 我們沒有限制我們的人飛過去"},{"start":304.2,"end":309.2,"text":"他們沒有開放烏魯木齊 西安 哈爾濱 昆明 蘭州"},{"start":309.2,"end":312.2,"text":"這五個城市的人可以自由行嗎"},{"start":312.2,"end":315.2,"text":"開放這五個航點的意思是什麼意思"},{"start":315.2,"end":317.2,"text":"他們只有我們的人去"},{"start":317.2,"end":320.2,"text":"他們的人不能自由行來"},{"start":320.2,"end":323.2,"text":"他們從2019年8月1號就停止"},{"start":323.2,"end":325.2,"text":"入客來才自由行"},{"start":325.2,"end":326.2,"text":"到現在還沒有恢復"},{"start":326.2,"end":330.2,"text":"對 那所以也有人說"},{"start":330.2,"end":332.2,"text":"我們應該要先包機"},{"start":332.2,"end":335.2,"text":"或者是如果真的有這個市場"},{"start":335.2,"end":337.2,"text":"如果國人真的很想去的話"},{"start":337.2,"end":339.2,"text":"包機我們會不會擋"},{"start":339.2,"end":341.2,"text":"我們就希望他們提案"},{"start":341.2,"end":343.2,"text":"比如說西安這個點"},{"start":343.2,"end":347.2,"text":"是我們13個包機的航點之一"},{"start":347.2,"end":350.2,"text":"如果他有這個運量 有這個市場"},{"start":350.2,"end":353.2,"text":"他應該在我們的包機去申請看看"},{"start":353.2,"end":355.2,"text":"因為我們現在的運能"},{"start":355.2,"end":358.2,"text":"我們航空公司可以提供的運能沒有限"},{"start":358.2,"end":361.2,"text":"所以如果他真的有運能"},{"start":361.2,"end":362.2,"text":"你應該提案嘛"},{"start":362.2,"end":365.2,"text":"現在其實目前為止都沒有提案出來"},{"start":365.2,"end":366.2,"text":"大家要講平等"},{"start":366.2,"end":369.2,"text":"所以我從平等開始跟你聊"},{"start":369.2,"end":374.2,"text":"這五個城市也沒有開放他們的國民自由行"},{"start":374.2,"end":376.2,"text":"第二個 如果我們要過"},{"start":376.2,"end":381.2,"text":"如果這直航點或者是包機可以成行的話"},{"start":381.2,"end":384.2,"text":"也都是我們的人過去旅遊"},{"start":384.2,"end":388.2,"text":"他們的人不能過來嘛"},{"start":388.2,"end":390.2,"text":"所以為什麼要開放"},{"start":390.2,"end":393.2,"text":"當然要包機這個沒有問題"},{"start":393.2,"end":394.2,"text":"國人要過去玩"},{"start":394.2,"end":397.2,"text":"包機這個我們完全沒有反對嘛"},{"start":397.2,"end":399.2,"text":"是不是這樣主委"},{"start":399.2,"end":405.2,"text":"所以其實這個還是比較政治的開放"},{"start":405.2,"end":407.2,"text":"那如果要政治的開放"},{"start":407.2,"end":410.2,"text":"如果他也開放自由行的話"},{"start":410.2,"end":414.2,"text":"那是不是大家會比較對等的可以談"},{"start":414.2,"end":416.2,"text":"甚至包含相關旅行業者"},{"start":416.2,"end":418.2,"text":"如果也出來可以促成的話"},{"start":418.2,"end":420.2,"text":"那陸委會的態度是怎麼樣"},{"start":420.2,"end":422.2,"text":"根本報告我們在2025年"},{"start":422.2,"end":425.2,"text":"我們2月3號"},{"start":425.2,"end":429.2,"text":"我們就給他們透過我們的台旅會"},{"start":429.2,"end":431.2,"text":"給他們的海旅會一封信"},{"start":431.2,"end":434.2,"text":"我們希望就兩岸的觀光旅遊"},{"start":434.2,"end":437.2,"text":"就旅遊安全 旅遊品質"},{"start":437.2,"end":440.2,"text":"旅遊穩定性跟公平性坐下來談"},{"start":440.2,"end":442.2,"text":"我們已經呼籲那麼久了"},{"start":442.2,"end":444.2,"text":"他遲遲就是不願意來談"},{"start":444.2,"end":446.2,"text":"如果願意來談"},{"start":446.2,"end":449.2,"text":"如果談出結果我們再來開放"},{"start":449.2,"end":452.2,"text":"這個對雙方的旅遊品質"},{"start":452.2,"end":455.2,"text":"對業者對我們彼此的對接"},{"start":455.2,"end":459.2,"text":"有一些旅遊意外都非常好的事情"},{"start":459.2,"end":461.2,"text":"但是我們很遺憾"},{"start":461.2,"end":463.2,"text":"他們就是不願透過小兩會來談"},{"start":463.2,"end":464.2,"text":"沒有回應嘛"},{"start":464.2,"end":465.2,"text":"是"},{"start":465.2,"end":466.2,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":466.2,"end":467.2,"text":"謝謝偉恩"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}