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11:12:50","會議時間":"2026-08-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第28次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等16人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）、（四）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「行政法院組織法第二十一條、第二十二條及第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等19人擬具「行政法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「行政法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n三、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「智慧財產及商業法院組織法第十八條及第二十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等20人擬具「智慧財產及商業法院組織法第十八條、第二十一條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「智慧財產及商業法院組織法第十八條、第二十一條及第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n四、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「少年及家事法院組織法第十四條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等20人擬具「少年及家事法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「少年及家事法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n五、併案審查\n（一）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「懲戒法院組織法第六條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等20人擬具「懲戒法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員羅智強等18人擬具「懲戒法院組織法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第（三）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【本次會議僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":2.9672187500000002,"end":7.03409375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":7.03409375,"end":7.30409375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":7.30409375,"end":7.624718750000001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":7.759718750000001,"end":10.915343750000002,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.51909375,"end":8.755343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":17.27721875,"end":18.12096875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":18.62721875,"end":60.20721875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":60.94971875,"end":61.759718750000005,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":62.35034375,"end":64.72971875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":65.11784375,"end":65.87721875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":66.58596875,"end":68.69534375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":69.21846875,"end":71.98596875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":69.25221875,"end":69.77534375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":72.25596875000001,"end":72.42471875000001,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":73.08284375000001,"end":80.49096875000001,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":80.47409375000001,"end":113.65034375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":80.50784375,"end":80.52471875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":84.42284375,"end":84.81096875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":113.90346875,"end":115.01721875000001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":115.01721875000001,"end":117.02534375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":115.35471875,"end":116.56971875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":117.66659375,"end":118.03784375000001,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":119.01659375000001,"end":146.21909375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":146.53971875000002,"end":153.91409375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.38346875000002,"end":148.68284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":154.26846875,"end":164.37659375,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":164.52846875,"end":177.52221875,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":178.04534375,"end":182.02784375000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":182.02784375000002,"end":190.97159375,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":190.97159375,"end":199.20659375000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":194.63346875000002,"end":195.30846875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":199.20659375000002,"end":199.22346875000002,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"高秘書長金枝","start":199.27409375000002,"end":207.96471875,"speaker_score":0.972},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":207.96471875,"end":215.79471875000002,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.79471875000002,"end":215.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":215.92971875,"end":227.86034375000003,"speaker_score":0.93},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":228.18096875,"end":246.47346875000002,"speaker_score":0.93}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謝謝主席喔 是不是請我們這個部長 呃 院長"},{"start":7.640000000000001,"end":10.88,"text":"呃 不 秘書長 請秘書長 來 請吳高秘書長"},{"start":16.88,"end":18.38,"text":"吳院長"},{"start":18.38,"end":22.740000000000002,"text":"秘書長早齁 你們提出這個法院組織法"},{"start":22.740000000000002,"end":27.66,"text":"還有這個行政法院組織法等啦 調文的修正"},{"start":27.82,"end":33.14,"text":"對外說是要提高這個書記官法警長 副法警長的職務列等"},{"start":33.14,"end":35.94,"text":"提高他們的待遇 保障他們啦齁"},{"start":35.94,"end":39.14,"text":"那也要明確化法警辦理職務的內容"},{"start":39.14,"end":44.64,"text":"但是呢 呃 在這一包修法當中 卻夾帶了一條"},{"start":44.64,"end":49.620000000000005,"text":"現在還沒有復圍 然後也沒有完成一讀"},{"start":49.620000000000005,"end":53.120000000000005,"text":"然後你今天的報告就已經寫出來了齁"},{"start":53.12,"end":60.12,"text":"就是跟書記官法警都無關的 藐視法官的命令的修法"},{"start":60.12,"end":62.12,"text":"你知道吧"},{"start":62.12,"end":69.12,"text":"我們在那個組織法裡面 就 就修正草案都放在裡面啦"},{"start":69.12,"end":70.12,"text":"蛤"},{"start":70.12,"end":77.12,"text":"95條就關於這個 因為法官他會發 就是95條的修正"},{"start":77.12,"end":80.12,"text":"就是要維持法庭秩序啊 這沒有夾帶啊"},{"start":80.12,"end":84.12,"text":"你現在這樣說什麼 你現在還沒完成一讀 也沒有復圍"},{"start":84.12,"end":85.12,"text":"沒有啊"},{"start":85.12,"end":89.12,"text":"8月3號才送進來 連一讀都還沒有 你就已經說明了"},{"start":89.12,"end":94.12,"text":"但這不程序 程序上不是重點啦 我不是要跟你談這個"},{"start":94.12,"end":101.12,"text":"你們都認為理所當然的事情喔 這個我們都不一定認為是理所當然啦"},{"start":101.12,"end":107.12,"text":"我要請教你喔 秘書長 大法官這個憲判 這個是不是宣告"},{"start":107.12,"end":113.12,"text":"法案第140條 侮辱公務員罪部分違憲 有沒有"},{"start":113.12,"end":116.12,"text":"這是很大的判決喔"},{"start":116.12,"end":117.12,"text":"對對"},{"start":117.12,"end":120.12,"text":"好 它怎麼判呢"},{"start":120.12,"end":125.12,"text":"113年憲判第5號說 關於侮辱公務員罪的部分啊"},{"start":125.12,"end":131.12,"text":"應限縮於行為人對公務員的當場侮辱行為"},{"start":131.12,"end":134.12,"text":"是基於妨礙公務的主觀目的"},{"start":134.12,"end":139.12,"text":"而且要足以影響公務員執行公務的情形"},{"start":139.12,"end":145.12,"text":"在這個範圍裡面 十語憲法第11條保障言論自由的意旨無違"},{"start":145.12,"end":151.12,"text":"這是大府憲說了 這個侮辱公務員罪的構成要件喔"},{"start":151.12,"end":153.12,"text":"必須要很嚴謹喔"},{"start":153.12,"end":157.12,"text":"那我現在跟你講喔 秘書長 一般公務員被侮辱啊"},{"start":157.12,"end":160.12,"text":"必須對方是主觀上我就是故意要妨礙你"},{"start":160.12,"end":162.12,"text":"而且造成了妨礙"},{"start":162.12,"end":164.12,"text":"而且我就是要侮辱你"},{"start":164.12,"end":167.12,"text":"而且造成妨礙才會構成犯罪喔"},{"start":167.12,"end":170.12,"text":"那你們現在的提出 現行的"},{"start":170.12,"end":172.12,"text":"不要說你提出的修正喔"},{"start":172.12,"end":179.12,"text":"法院組織法第95條規定要構成這個犯罪喔"},{"start":179.12,"end":183.12,"text":"刑責伺候喔 它的構成要件是什麼"},{"start":183.12,"end":188.12,"text":"跟委員報告 第一個 那個吳宗憲委員他的草案裡面就有這一條"},{"start":188.12,"end":190.12,"text":"我管他吳宗憲 我再問你啦"},{"start":190.12,"end":194.12,"text":"你直接回答我法院組織法第95條"},{"start":194.12,"end":199.12,"text":"現在的構成要件的這個行為是什麼"},{"start":199.12,"end":206.12,"text":"喔 現行 對 現行是自妨害法院執行職務 經制止不聽"},{"start":206.12,"end":212.12,"text":"好 經制止不聽 妨礙職務 我們都講罪行法定主義啦"},{"start":212.12,"end":215.12,"text":"妨礙職務的範圍可就廣啦"},{"start":215.12,"end":221.12,"text":"但經制止不聽的要件喔 我個人相當不同意現行的法律"},{"start":221.12,"end":230.12,"text":"這個白話文就講說 你在這裡吵啦 鬧啦 然後法官兩次叫你不要亂了"},{"start":230.12,"end":235.12,"text":"你還在這裡大聲繼續講話 你就有罪了 刑責伺候"},{"start":235.12,"end":240.12,"text":"大聲說話 剛剛李佩妮裡面說 朱學公請大家保持安靜"},{"start":240.12,"end":246.12,"text":"大家繼續不安靜 好 抓去關 馬上就起訴"},{"start":246.12,"end":249.12,"text":"如果是這樣子可以嗎"},{"start":249.12,"end":253.12,"text":"所以就是因為基於現行法這樣的規定"},{"start":253.12,"end":259.12,"text":"對於法官他在這個維持法庭秩序 老實說 如委員所說的"},{"start":259.12,"end":262.12,"text":"會有很多考慮 要馬上進行者"},{"start":262.12,"end":266.12,"text":"所以我們才希望 就如同吳宗憲委員所提出來的"},{"start":266.12,"end":270.12,"text":"先讓他用行政法 就是這個目的"},{"start":270.12,"end":276.12,"text":"現在你所主張的 現行的法律就是這樣直接行者伺候"},{"start":276.12,"end":280.12,"text":"你現在說 好 我現在先給你行政法"},{"start":280.12,"end":285.12,"text":"你還是不聽 第二次再犯的話 我就給你行法"},{"start":285.12,"end":291.12,"text":"現在你把經制止不聽 直接就拿掉了"},{"start":291.12,"end":294.12,"text":"你們號稱說要先行政法 可是不是喔"},{"start":294.12,"end":297.12,"text":"他現在是經制止不聽 直接拿掉"},{"start":297.12,"end":302.12,"text":"只要我認定你妨礙這個職務 你直接就處罰了 罰錢了"},{"start":302.12,"end":305.12,"text":"直接喔 沒有制止不聽喔"},{"start":305.12,"end":309.12,"text":"然後第二次再犯 直接就行者伺候"},{"start":309.12,"end":313.12,"text":"你說這是先行政後 行法"},{"start":313.12,"end":317.12,"text":"不是咧 你連制止不聽這個要件都拿掉了"},{"start":317.12,"end":320.12,"text":"所以我舉一個例子好了"},{"start":320.12,"end":323.12,"text":"如果法庭開庭的時候 法官說"},{"start":323.12,"end":326.12,"text":"你們雙方不要在那裡爭執了"},{"start":326.12,"end":329.12,"text":"等到辯論的時候再說好了"},{"start":329.12,"end":333.12,"text":"結果當事人大家很容易 雙方繼續爭執"},{"start":333.12,"end":337.12,"text":"這樣子是不是就構成了 維持法庭秩序之命令"},{"start":337.12,"end":342.12,"text":"制妨礙法院執行職務 也不需要經制止不聽了"},{"start":342.12,"end":345.12,"text":"直接就罰錢了 第二次再不聽"},{"start":345.12,"end":347.12,"text":"然後就直接抓去關了"},{"start":347.12,"end":349.12,"text":"所以在法庭裡面是不是只能夠"},{"start":349.12,"end":352.12,"text":"唯唯諾諾 生怕多講幾句話"},{"start":352.12,"end":355.12,"text":"就被認為是妨礙執行職務了呢"},{"start":355.12,"end":359.12,"text":"跟委員報告 當一位法官他會要講說"},{"start":359.12,"end":362.12,"text":"你要維持法庭秩序 如同委員所說的"},{"start":362.12,"end":365.12,"text":"一定雙方爭執很嚴重"},{"start":365.12,"end":368.12,"text":"法官為了維持法庭秩序一定會跟他說"},{"start":368.12,"end":370.12,"text":"好 大家照順序說"},{"start":370.12,"end":372.12,"text":"其實他的命令就是這樣子"},{"start":372.12,"end":374.12,"text":"你講得太簡短了"},{"start":378.12,"end":384.12,"text":"你講得好像是必須要 好像很喧鬧什麼的"},{"start":384.12,"end":386.12,"text":"我舉三個例子給你聽"},{"start":386.12,"end":390.12,"text":"我講三個實例給你聽 你來聽聽看"},{"start":390.12,"end":394.12,"text":"抱歉 主席 那個等我一下下"},{"start":394.12,"end":410.12,"text":"來 這個被告在檢察官對於這個"},{"start":410.12,"end":413.12,"text":"證人進行反結問時"},{"start":413.12,"end":416.12,"text":"抱歉 我這樣講好了 這樣字太小了"},{"start":419.12,"end":423.12,"text":"我們去搜尋過很多的這個判例"},{"start":423.12,"end":427.12,"text":"曾經有一個就是被告打斷證人發言"},{"start":427.12,"end":432.12,"text":"然後就被法院用這一條判拘役二十天"},{"start":433.12,"end":435.12,"text":"如果這個放在立法院"},{"start":435.12,"end":438.12,"text":"官員被尋的時候 立委在講話"},{"start":438.12,"end":441.12,"text":"官員打斷立委的提問 官員就要被判刑"},{"start":441.12,"end":443.12,"text":"你覺得如何"},{"start":443.12,"end":446.12,"text":"就是說證人在發言"},{"start":446.12,"end":449.12,"text":"然後他被告就說 你這樣講講的錯誤"},{"start":449.12,"end":451.12,"text":"因為我不是那樣子"},{"start":451.12,"end":454.12,"text":"他就被起訴了 判二十天"},{"start":454.12,"end":458.12,"text":"然後過去還發生過被告在法庭上大聲發言幾次"},{"start":458.12,"end":462.12,"text":"然後法院就說 你這樣子起訴"},{"start":462.12,"end":465.12,"text":"放在立法院的話就是說"},{"start":465.12,"end":468.12,"text":"官員大聲的回答立委的提問 就要被判刑"},{"start":468.12,"end":471.12,"text":"他是判拘役三十天"},{"start":471.12,"end":473.12,"text":"這個都有判例的"},{"start":473.12,"end":475.12,"text":"那你覺得怎麼樣"},{"start":475.12,"end":478.12,"text":"一個是地方法院96年檢上至第396號"},{"start":478.12,"end":481.12,"text":"一個是96年抑制第2310號"},{"start":481.12,"end":483.12,"text":"過去還曾經發生這樣"},{"start":483.12,"end":485.12,"text":"在刑事庭開庭的時候"},{"start":485.12,"end":488.12,"text":"跟公訴檢察官相悶"},{"start":488.12,"end":491.12,"text":"他說檢察官你陳述的內容不實"},{"start":491.12,"end":494.12,"text":"你再這樣不實的話 我要告你"},{"start":494.12,"end":498.12,"text":"然後你講的不對 我要告你"},{"start":498.12,"end":500.12,"text":"然後就這樣講了 然後就被起訴了"},{"start":500.12,"end":502.12,"text":"然後就被起訴了"},{"start":502.12,"end":505.12,"text":"然後呢 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text":"總的言之你們就是希望兩年以下"},{"start":1045.12,"end":1047.12,"text":"法官不用寫判決"},{"start":1047.12,"end":1048.12,"text":"你們還要修法"},{"start":1048.12,"end":1050.12,"text":"你在這裡承認你要修這個法"},{"start":1050.12,"end":1054.12,"text":"你們在上次AI寫判決"},{"start":1054.12,"end":1057.12,"text":"因為你們根本沒有能力訓練AI"},{"start":1057.12,"end":1059.12,"text":"然後你們只想讓法官享受判決"},{"start":1059.12,"end":1061.12,"text":"人家生死的這個權利"},{"start":1061.12,"end":1063.12,"text":"兩年以下"},{"start":1063.12,"end":1064.12,"text":"為什麼兩年以下"},{"start":1064.12,"end":1065.12,"text":"不用寫判決理由"},{"start":1065.12,"end":1067.12,"text":"然後你們為什麼寫判決理由"},{"start":1067.12,"end":1069.12,"text":"是法官應該負起"},{"start":1069.12,"end":1073.12,"text":"跟人家說理的義務"},{"start":1073.12,"end":1076.12,"text":"你擁有判決的判刑的權利"},{"start":1076.12,"end":1080.12,"text":"但你要告訴人家為什麼被判的義務"},{"start":1080.12,"end":1082.12,"text":"這個才是正當的"},{"start":1082.12,"end":1084.12,"text":"先不寫並沒有說都不寫"},{"start":1084.12,"end":1086.12,"text":"先不寫"},{"start":1086.12,"end":1088.12,"text":"兩年以下"},{"start":1088.12,"end":1092.12,"text":"被冤枉的人要知道自己被冤枉在哪裡"},{"start":1092.12,"end":1097.12,"text":"你們覺得兩年以下很輕的行"},{"start":1097.12,"end":1099.12,"text":"事實上不是"},{"start":1099.12,"end":1102.12,"text":"對當事人而言都不是"},{"start":1102.12,"end":1103.12,"text":"討論這個議題"},{"start":1103.12,"end":1105.12,"text":"因為讀違法的剛那個條文"},{"start":1105.12,"end":1106.12,"text":"我們已經演了"},{"start":1106.12,"end":1107.12,"text":"他們很過分"},{"start":1107.12,"end":1109.12,"text":"剛剛拿這個去請行政院"},{"start":1109.12,"end":1111.12,"text":"要跟他們說你要踢足"},{"start":1111.12,"end":1113.12,"text":"被行政院拒絕"},{"start":1113.12,"end":1115.12,"text":"被行政院拒絕"},{"start":1115.12,"end":1118.12,"text":"現在行政院他很多法案都不送"},{"start":1118.12,"end":1120.12,"text":"他還拖延很多"},{"start":1120.12,"end":1124.12,"text":"現在司法院說他要送兩年判刑"},{"start":1124.12,"end":1126.12,"text":"都不用寫判決理由"},{"start":1126.12,"end":1128.12,"text":"你們去看全國人民"},{"start":1128.12,"end":1132.12,"text":"可以接受判決判刑兩年以下"},{"start":1132.12,"end":1134.12,"text":"都不用寫理由"},{"start":1134.12,"end":1137.12,"text":"我們之後再來討論這個議題"},{"start":1137.12,"end":1139.12,"text":"因為這是今天完全不同的題目"},{"start":1139.12,"end":1143.12,"text":"到時候端出來看就知道了"},{"start":1143.12,"end":1145.12,"text":"端出來看就知道了"},{"start":1145.12,"end":1147.12,"text":"為什麼行政院不支持"},{"start":1147.12,"end":1149.12,"text":"因為太違反社會"},{"start":1149.12,"end":1152.12,"text":"人民能夠接受的觀感了"},{"start":1152.12,"end":1154.12,"text":"好謝謝林委員"},{"start":1154.12,"end":1156.12,"text":"好謝謝秘書長"},{"start":1156.12,"end":1158.12,"text":"我們就下次再討論這個議題"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:53:30.402105+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:53:38.450000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T10:53:38.652500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:53:40.677500+08:00","text":"請高秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:53:40.677500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T10:53:48.380000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:53:48.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:53:49.197500+08:00","text":"秘書長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:53:49.742500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:31.620000+08:00","text":"你們提出法院組織法還有行政法院組織法等條文修正，對外說是為了提高書記官、法警長、副法警長的職務列等、提高他們的待遇、保障他們，也要明確化法警辦理職務的內容，但是，在這一包修法當中夾帶了一條條文，現在還沒有付委，也沒有完成一讀，今天的報告卻已經寫出來了，就是與書記官、法警都無關的藐視法官命令修法，你知道吧？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:33.710909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:38.801818+08:00","text":"組織法修正草案都包含在內啦！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:40.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:49.932500+08:00","text":"第九十五條就是關於法官會發……第九十五條的修正就是要維持法庭秩序，沒有夾帶啊！","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:50.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:51.392727+08:00","text":"你現在是在講什麼？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:51.756364+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:54:58.920000+08:00","text":"現在還沒完成一讀、也沒有付委；8月3日才送進來，連一讀都還沒有，你就已經說明了。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:54:59.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:10.637241+08:00","text":"但程序不是重點、我不是要跟你談這個，而是你們都認為理所當然的事情，我們不一定都認為理所當然。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:11.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:21.708235+08:00","text":"秘書長，我要請教你，大法官憲判是不是宣告刑法第一百四十條侮辱公務員罪部分違憲？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:22.061176+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:22.767059+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:23.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:26.120000+08:00","text":"這是很大的判決喔！對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:28.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:29.620000+08:00","text":"怎麼判呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:30.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:55:54.870000+08:00","text":"113年憲判第5號說，關於侮辱公務員罪，應限縮於行為人對公務員的當場侮辱行為係基於妨害公務之主觀目的，而且要有足以影響公務員執行公務的情形，在這個範圍裡面，始與憲法第十一條保障言論自由的意志無違。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:55:55.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:02.834286+08:00","text":"這是大幅限縮了侮辱公務員罪的構成要件，必須很嚴謹喔！是。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:03.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:16.658462+08:00","text":"秘書長，那我現在跟你講，一般公務員被侮辱，對方必須在主觀上就是故意要妨害，而且除了造成妨害，就是要侮辱，並造成妨害，才會構成犯罪。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:17.392727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:30.262857+08:00","text":"而你們現在提出……是現行的，不是你們現在提出的修正案，根據法院組織法第九十五條規定，要構成犯罪─刑責伺候喔！","quality":0.729},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:31.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:32.834286+08:00","text":"其構成要件是什麼？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:33.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:37.927692+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，第一、吳宗憲委員的草案裡就有這一條。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:38.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:39.029091+08:00","text":"我管吳宗憲！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:39.210909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:39.938182+08:00","text":"我在問你啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:40.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:50.120000+08:00","text":"你直接回答我，依據法院組織法第九十五條，現在構成要件的行為是什麼？現行？對！","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:50.453333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:55.786667+08:00","text":"現行是致妨害法院執行職務，經制止不聽。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:56.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:56:58.691429+08:00","text":"好，經制止不聽、妨害職務。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:56:58.977143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:04.847273+08:00","text":"我們都講罪刑法定主義，但妨害職務的範圍可就廣啦！","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:05.380870+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:24.870000+08:00","text":"對於「經制止不聽」的要件，我個人相當不同意現行法律，白話文就是你在這裡吵、鬧，而法官兩次叫你不要亂了，要是你還在這裡繼續大聲講話就有罪了，刑責伺候。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:25.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:35.745000+08:00","text":"大聲講話就像在立法院內，主席請大家保持安靜，大家仍繼續不安靜，就抓去關、馬上起訴。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:36.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:38.786667+08:00","text":"如果是這樣，可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:57:39.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:57:59.812308+08:00","text":"就是基於現行法這樣的規定，法官在維持法庭秩序上，老實說就如委員所言，會有很多考慮，包括要馬上進刑責，我們才希望如同吳宗憲委員所提出來的先適用行政法，就是這個目的。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:02.029091+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:13.731111+08:00","text":"好，現行法律就是這樣，直接刑責伺候，而你現在說先施以行政罰，如果還是不聽，做第二次再犯的話，就施以刑罰。","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:14.286667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:20.720000+08:00","text":"但你現在是把「經制止不聽」直接拿掉了。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:21.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:23.920000+08:00","text":"你們號稱要先用行政罰，可是不是喔！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:24.350769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:31.892727+08:00","text":"現在是把「經制止不聽」直接拿掉，只要認定妨害職務就直接處罰了、罰錢了。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:32.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:32.720000+08:00","text":"是直接喔！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:33.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:38.834286+08:00","text":"沒有「制止不聽」喔，第二次再犯就直接刑責伺候。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:39.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:58:46.884706+08:00","text":"你說這是先行政、後刑罰，但不是，因為連「制止不聽」這個要件都拿掉了！","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:58:47.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:09.225263+08:00","text":"我舉一個例子好了，如果法庭開庭的時候，法官要求雙方不要再爭執，等辯論時再說，但當事人雙方很容易繼續爭執，這樣是不是就構成違反維持法庭秩序之命令，致妨害法院執行職務？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:09.488421+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:24.889231+08:00","text":"也不需要「經制止不聽」，直接罰錢，第二次再不聽，就直接抓去關了，所以在法庭裡是不是只能夠唯唯諾諾、深怕多講幾句話就被認為是妨害執行職務呢？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:25.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:41.756364+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，當一位法官需要維持法庭秩序時，如同委員所說，一定是雙方爭執得很嚴重，法官為了維持法庭秩序，一定會要求大家照順序說，其實他的命令就是這樣。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:42.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:43.834286+08:00","text":"你講得太簡單了。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:48.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:53.767059+08:00","text":"你講得好像必須要很喧鬧什麼的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T10:59:54.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T10:59:59.834286+08:00","text":"我舉三個實例給你聽聽看。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:00:29.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:00:41.807500+08:00","text":"我們搜尋過很多判例，曾經有一個判例是被告打斷證人發言，就被法院用這一條判拘役20天。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:00:43.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:00:52.720000+08:00","text":"如果這個狀況放在立法院，官員備詢的時候，立委在講話，官員打斷立委的提問，官員就要被判刑，你覺得如何？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:00:54.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:03.820000+08:00","text":"證人在發言，被告就說你這樣說是錯誤的，因為我不是你說的那樣，而這樣就被起訴了，判20天。","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:04.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:11.786667+08:00","text":"過去還發生過被告在法庭上大聲發言幾次，法院就因為這樣的行為而起訴他。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:12.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:24.834286+08:00","text":"這種情況放在立法院，官員大聲回答立委的提問就要被判刑，他是判拘役30天，這都有判例的，你覺得怎麼樣？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:25.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:30.745000+08:00","text":"一個是地方法院96年簡上字第396號，另一個是96年易字第2310號。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:31.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:47.756364+08:00","text":"過去還曾經發生在刑事庭開庭的時候，跟公訴檢察官對罵，他說：檢察官你陳述的內容不實，你再講不實的話，我要告你，你講得不對，我要告你。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:48.548571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:01:54.786667+08:00","text":"他這樣講然後就被起訴了，最後判決無罪。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:01:56.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:01.745000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，對於委員現在講的實例，一下子我也沒辦法很具體的了解。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:02.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:02.870000+08:00","text":"我知道啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:03.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:12.897778+08:00","text":"可是我相信法官要起訴的時候，絕對在現場一定會跟他說：你不要再說了、太吵了、不要再這樣做了……","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:13.350769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:18.905714+08:00","text":"因為現行的法律要「經制止不聽」，但未來是連「經制止不聽」都不需要。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:19.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:31.920000+08:00","text":"報告委員，其實「經制止不聽」一定是他在發維持法庭秩序之命令，法官已經講：你不要說了、你不要說了……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:34.334286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:36.905714+08:00","text":"秘書長，不是這樣子的，法官說「你不要說了、你不要說了」就要抓去關嗎？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:37.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:40.938182+08:00","text":"法官說「你不要說了、你不要說了」，結果繼續說就要抓去關嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:41.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:42.786667+08:00","text":"拜託，報告委員……","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:43.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:54.786667+08:00","text":"我老實說，只說「你不要說了、你不要說了」，根據法院組織法第八十八條、第八十九條、第九十一條，你們還有其他手段和方法可以把他趕出去，不是嗎？","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:54.786667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:55.786667+08:00","text":"因為他如果……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:55.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:02:57.786667+08:00","text":"可以把他趕出去啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:02:59.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:03:00.720000+08:00","text":"趕出去以後，沒有……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:03:01.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:03:05.834286+08:00","text":"你不是沒有手段，刑責作為最後手段，這個是最重要的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:03:06.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:03:11.870000+08:00","text":"光是「你不要說了」就抓去關、判刑，這樣對嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:03:12.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:03:12.920000+08:00","text":"我相信個案絕對不是……","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:03:13.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:03:14.870000+08:00","text":"你相信，那我就跟你講……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:03:16.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:03:17.966154+08:00","text":"我把它抄回去，再跟委員報告。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:03:18.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:03:36.820000+08:00","text":"你們認為司法院改成先行政後刑責，把處罰的門檻降低，動輒得咎，動不動就是罰錢、抓去關，為什麼你們要這樣呢？因為……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:03:37.405714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:03:59.786667+08:00","text":"如果當事人構成侮辱公務員罪，依據刑法第一百四十條可以處理、113年大法官憲判字第5號也可以處理；如果他的行為不是侮辱公務員，只是講話大聲、干擾秩序，你就要把他抓去關，這不合理。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:04:01.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:04:20.920000+08:00","text":"大法官的憲判限縮了侮辱公務員罪，要求一般公務人員要忍受侮辱行為，結果你們司法院今天修法卻獨厚法官，要求大家都不能違反法官在法庭上的命令，否則不是罰錢就是判刑。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:04:21.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:05:09.691429+08:00","text":"你們這種認為法官高高在上，只許你們州官放火，法官不能夠被侮辱，但是一般公務員可以被侮辱，限縮了侮辱公務員罪，結果你降低了在法院裡不聽法官制止的門檻，所以古人說見官矮三截，司法院認為來的人都矮我三截、都要聽我的，你們這種高高在上的態度，大家都只能比你們的位置低，都要聽你們的，這種態度才有問題，所以第九十五條的修法不是降低觸法的門檻，動輒就罰錢、抓去關，而是應該要刪除。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:05:11.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:05:18.920000+08:00","text":"我問你，同樣的情形，在檢察官偵查庭的時候不會發生同樣的困擾嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:05:21.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:05:25.620000+08:00","text":"相同的情形如果發生在其他行政機關怎麼處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:05:26.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:05:28.889231+08:00","text":"你們動輒把人家抓去關、罰錢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:05:29.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:05:31.820000+08:00","text":"請問一下，偵查庭不會發生嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:05:33.453333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:05:38.834286+08:00","text":"干擾公務員辦公的罪責，不是應該要一致嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:05:39.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:05:41.847273+08:00","text":"憑什麼司法院就要高人一等？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:05:42.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:05:45.920000+08:00","text":"民眾在偵查庭開庭的時候，不會發生一樣的情形嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:05:46.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:05:51.620000+08:00","text":"檢察官問他，他說不是這樣，他就要插話，不會發生嗎？會啊！","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:05:52.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:05:54.620000+08:00","text":"不會大聲嚷嚷嗎？會啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:05:55.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:06:19.720000+08:00","text":"檢察官開偵查庭時也會發生同樣的情形，但數十年來，地檢署從來沒有適用過法院組織法第九十五條，滋擾、妨害秩序、妨害執行職務，檢察官開偵查庭一樣會碰到，為什麼他們可以繼續執法、可以繼續辦公、可以偵查，你們就不行？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:06:20.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:06:31.262857+08:00","text":"你們就偏偏要高人一等，為什麼你們需要使用封建社會那種高高在上、唯我獨尊、權力獨大、見官矮三截的這種法條？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:06:31.977143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:06:33.762857+08:00","text":"而這種法條還存在啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:06:34.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:06:37.897778+08:00","text":"社會秩序維護法有沒有工具可以使用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:06:42.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:07:06.370000+08:00","text":"依據社會秩序維護法，在公共場所發生口角紛爭、喧嘩滋事，不聽禁止者罰6,000元；社會秩序維護法第八十五條，於公務員依法執行職務時，以顯然不當的言詞或行動相加，尚未達強暴脅迫或侮辱之程度者，或是在公務員依法執行職務時，聚眾喧嘩，致礙公務進行者，罰1萬2,000元。","quality":0.718},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:07:07.350769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:07:11.786667+08:00","text":"現在有這些法條，不需要你在法院組織法裡面架構這個法律啦！","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:07:12.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:07:27.820000+08:00","text":"你們法院組織法第八十八條、第八十九條、第九十一條審判長可以下令將他們抓出去、退出去，不准他進來，這些通通都可以，可以叫法警把他抓出去，你還需要多嚴苛的法律？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:07:30.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:07:55.897778+08:00","text":"我再問你第二個問題，法院組織法有工具可以處理，社會秩序維護法也有相對的條款可以處理，你們偵查庭也會遇到一樣的狀況，同樣的，公務員的狀況都可以用這些條文解決、都可以處理，你們為什麼就不行呢？","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:07:58.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:08:02.889231+08:00","text":"我們認為不要一天到晚修法來修理人民。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:08:06.427692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:08:08.953333+08:00","text":"最後是不是可以請秘書長簡短回答？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:08:09.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:08:09.953333+08:00","text":"因為今天時間已經超過太多了。","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:08:11.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:08:13.920000+08:00","text":"主席，我還有最後一個議題，我再講一下。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:08:16.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:08:28.786667+08:00","text":"最近行政院、立法院大家高度關注刑法第一百八十五條之三毒駕的修法，這是行政院跟司法院要兩院會銜的法案，對不對？是。","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:08:30.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:03.834286+08:00","text":"我有內部的消息說關於毒駕的修法，你們利用行政院需要跟司法院會銜這件事，司法院要求行政院必須另外同意司法院提出來的刑事訴訟法的修法草案，這個草案就是擴大檢視審判範圍，修法要把判2年有期徒刑以下的案件，法官可以不用寫判決書，直接用宣示筆錄代替判決，有沒有這一回事？","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:04.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:07.870000+08:00","text":"我們絕對沒有對行政院說這種話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:08.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:11.786667+08:00","text":"這是內部消息傳出來，但被行政院拒絕。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:11.786667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:12.920000+08:00","text":"我不知道這是哪邊來的內部消息，不可能……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:12.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:15.938182+08:00","text":"你們未來會不會提出這個修法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:16.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:17.897778+08:00","text":"當然要提出這個修法，我們……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:18.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:29.920000+08:00","text":"你要提出修法說2年有期徒刑以下的案件，法官不用寫判決書，直接用宣示筆錄代替判決，未來判決2年以下，只要寫某某某，你被判刑2年了……","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:29.920000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:30.920000+08:00","text":"沒有，還有其他的要件……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:30.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:32.953333+08:00","text":"什麼理由、什麼原因不用寫，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:33.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:36.953333+08:00","text":"裡面有其他要件，不是如委員所說的這麼簡單。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:37.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:38.720000+08:00","text":"最好是如此。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:39.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:53.920000+08:00","text":"刑法第一百八十五條之三毒駕的修法是攸關全國用路人的安全，避免無辜民眾喪命，是要嚴懲毒駕，司法院怎麼可以拿全民的事情去當籌碼……","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:53.920000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:09:54.920000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，絕對沒有、絕對沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:09:54.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:00.870000+08:00","text":"要求行政院支持你們的修法，並且去交換讓法官不用寫判決的修法。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:00.870000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:01.870000+08:00","text":"絕對沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:01.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:02.953333+08:00","text":"我覺得這根本就在侮辱我們，他們送來後我們馬上會銜……","quality":0.435},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:03.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:17.834286+08:00","text":"司法改革要越改越好，不是在這裡改到法官不用寫判決，你要這樣改，乾脆不用兩年以下，全部都不用，你們曾經提過要用AI寫判決。沒有。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:18.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:19.834286+08:00","text":"那是古時候一個幻想……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:20.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:20.920000+08:00","text":"什麼古時候？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:21.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:23.834286+08:00","text":"根本就不是，AI不可能寫判決的……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:24.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:27.920000+08:00","text":"你們曾經要提這個預算，但被我砍掉了，怎麼會沒有。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:27.920000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:28.920000+08:00","text":"不是，那時候……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:28.920000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:29.920000+08:00","text":"林委員，今天因為……","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:29.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:34.008889+08:00","text":"如果是這樣子，行政機關作成行政處分可不可以不要寫理由？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:34.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:37.786667+08:00","text":"等到人民要訴願的時候，我再寫理由，可以嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:38.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:41.938182+08:00","text":"你沒有給我判決的理由，我怎麼知道要不要上訴？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:42.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:46.889231+08:00","text":"這都一定有其他的要件，不是如同委員所說的這麼簡單。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:47.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:47.870000+08:00","text":"什麼要件？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:48.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:50.905714+08:00","text":"現在只是你口頭上講得好聽啦！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:50.905714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:51.905714+08:00","text":"對，沒錯！我對……好的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:10:51.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:10:59.953333+08:00","text":"總而言之，你們就是希望兩年以下，法官不用寫判決，你們還要修法，你在這裡承認你要修這部法。沒錯。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:00.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:10.675556+08:00","text":"你們上次提出AI寫判決，因為你們根本沒有能力訓練AI，你們只想讓法官享受判決人家生死的權力……","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:10.675556+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:13.120000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:13.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:14.977143+08:00","text":"為什麼兩年以下不用寫判決理由？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:14.977143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:16.286667+08:00","text":"有太多……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:16.286667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:31.834286+08:00","text":"寫判決理由是，法官應該負起跟人家說理的義務，你擁有判決、判刑的權力，但你有告訴人家為什麼被判的義務，這個才是正當的。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:32.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:33.920000+08:00","text":"報告委員，他只是先不寫，並沒有說都不寫……","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:34.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:35.453333+08:00","text":"先不寫……","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:35.453333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:36.453333+08:00","text":"林淑芬委員，你的質詢時間已經超過很多了……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:36.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:41.870000+08:00","text":"兩年以下被冤枉的人要知道自己被冤枉在哪裡啊！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:41.870000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:42.870000+08:00","text":"而且你質詢議題也沒有跟今天主題有關……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:42.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:48.720000+08:00","text":"你們覺得兩年以下是很輕的刑責，事實上不是啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:49.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:51.786667+08:00","text":"對當事人而言，都不是啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:52.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:52.953333+08:00","text":"是不是改到下次再來討論這議題？","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:53.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:55.953333+08:00","text":"因為毒危法的條文，我們已經在司委會保留協商了……","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:56.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:11:59.786667+08:00","text":"他們很過分，他拿這個去請行政院說要支持他們……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:11:59.786667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:01.120000+08:00","text":"絕對沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:01.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:02.786667+08:00","text":"被行政院拒絕……","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:02.786667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:05.120000+08:00","text":"我們絕對沒有。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:05.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:09.786667+08:00","text":"現在行政院很多法案都不送了，他們還拖延很多……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:09.786667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:10.786667+08:00","text":"他們禮拜五送進來，我們馬上辦理，3個月就回文了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:10.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:15.870000+08:00","text":"現在司法院說他們要修判刑兩年以下都不用寫判決理由……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:15.870000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:16.870000+08:00","text":"這是兩回事，麻煩……","quality":0},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:16.870000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:17.870000+08:00","text":"請委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:17.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:23.786667+08:00","text":"全國人民可以接受判決、判刑兩年以下都不用寫理由的嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:23.786667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:24.786667+08:00","text":"委員，沒有說不寫。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:24.786667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:25.786667+08:00","text":"謝謝林委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:24.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:28.966154+08:00","text":"我們之後再來討論這個議題，因為這與今天是完全不同的題目，而且你已經超過時間太多了。","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:29.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:34.870000+08:00","text":"到時候你們端出來看就知道了。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:35.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:36.897778+08:00","text":"為什麼行政院不支持？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:37.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:41.520000+08:00","text":"因為太違反社會人民能夠接受的觀感。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:42.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:45.786667+08:00","text":"好，謝謝林委員、謝謝秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:46.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:47.953333+08:00","text":"我們下一次再來討論這個議題。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:48.453333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:50.167619+08:00","text":"請陳冠廷委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:50.467619+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:53.896190+08:00","text":"陳冠廷委員，陳冠廷委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:12:54.196190+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:12:57.053333+08:00","text":"接下來請范雲委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}