{"error":false,"id":["170840"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170840,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170840","日期":"2026-08-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-22","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":22,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-05T11:02:19+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-05T11:22:16+08:00","影片長度":"00:19:57","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d053bb9b075f6aeab6baf2588ab81144cd75ebd3fcd1029c9e152d6567b454d3bee343b31a484f975ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"11:02:19 - 11:22:16","會議時間":"2026-08-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請衛生福利部部長、行政院食品安全辦公室、教育部、國防部、經濟部、台灣糖業股份有限公司及行政院消費者保護處就「從致癌油事件發展迄今，中央一味『蓋牌、吃案、當門神』有關行政究責之重做完整調查報告(含台糖失職、食安警訊斷鏈責任、團體訴訟求償進度)及未來如何確保安全無虞的國軍團膳、學生營養午餐」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n（下午2時30分起，若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、審查行政院函請審議「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、繼續審查委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、繼續審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、繼續審查委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n......（完整內容，詳見議事日程）\n二十、審查委員許宇甄等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、審查委員郭國文等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第七條及第四十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、審查國民黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、審查委員廖偉翔等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第七條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、審查委員李彥秀等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、審查委員羅智強等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十七、審查委員盧縣一等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十八、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十九、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十、審查委員王育敏等25人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十一、審查委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十二、審查委員林月琴等24人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十三、審查委員林淑芬等21人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十五、審查委員李坤城等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十六、審查委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十七、審查委員劉建國等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【逐條討論，不詢答】\n【第二十至二十二案，如經復議則不予審查；第一案及第二十三至三十七案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":2.83221875,"end":12.012218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.012218750000002,"end":13.075343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12.552218750000002,"end":15.589718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":19.28534375,"end":24.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":25.69784375,"end":26.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":26.91284375,"end":33.62909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.79346875,"end":35.26596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":35.78909375,"end":44.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":42.353468750000005,"end":50.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":50.50409375,"end":55.60034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":56.393468750000004,"end":57.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":57.92909375,"end":61.57409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.09784375,"end":59.025968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.34221875,"end":61.979093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":61.979093750000004,"end":63.81846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.75534375,"end":63.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.81846875,"end":63.869093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.37534375,"end":65.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":65.62409375,"end":67.44659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.33284375000001,"end":66.77159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":68.35784375,"end":70.36596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.49284375,"end":70.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.87221875,"end":72.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":71.78346875,"end":74.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.09096875,"end":78.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":78.46596875,"end":78.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.48284375,"end":78.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":78.49971875,"end":79.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.02284375,"end":89.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":79.15784375,"end":79.68096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":89.97471875000001,"end":90.97034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":92.05034375000001,"end":100.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":99.03659375000001,"end":100.96034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":101.41596875,"end":103.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":101.77034375000001,"end":102.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":103.89659375000001,"end":105.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.07784375,"end":111.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":112.04721875000001,"end":117.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.85221875,"end":120.09659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":120.33284375000001,"end":122.77971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.86846875,"end":122.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.77971875,"end":123.08346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":122.79659375000001,"end":122.81346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":123.08346875000001,"end":126.25596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.66096875000001,"end":132.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":132.43221875,"end":132.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.48284375,"end":132.56721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":132.56721875,"end":132.68534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":132.68534375000002,"end":132.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":132.75284375,"end":133.83284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.22534375,"end":134.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":134.57534375,"end":138.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":138.03471875,"end":140.68409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":140.88659375,"end":142.75971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":141.79784375,"end":143.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":143.68784375,"end":145.35846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":144.37971875,"end":151.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":151.33221875,"end":158.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.54221875000002,"end":159.26346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":159.26346875000002,"end":159.28034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":159.97221875,"end":166.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.76534375,"end":160.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":166.97534375,"end":180.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.31096875,"end":179.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.55971875,"end":180.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":180.62721875,"end":186.92159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":186.63471875000002,"end":187.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":187.79909375000003,"end":192.62534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":187.83284375000002,"end":188.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":192.05159375000002,"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謝謝主席 我們有請衛福部部長 食藥署署長"},{"start":7.5,"end":12,"text":"經濟部常務次長 台廠的副總 一起上台"},{"start":12,"end":15.5,"text":"還有行政院食安辦的徐副主任"},{"start":15.5,"end":22,"text":"來 我先問那個台廠的副總"},{"start":22,"end":24.5,"text":"你們剛拿了兩罐繼續拿上來沒有關係"},{"start":25.5,"end":33.5,"text":"來 你告訴本席脫膠原油是你台廠的製油原料嗎 是或不是"},{"start":33.5,"end":39.5,"text":"我們台廠做沙拉油是從黃豆開始"},{"start":39.5,"end":42.5,"text":"我們進口的都是美國黃豆"},{"start":42.5,"end":48.5,"text":"好 我直接問你 你跟中聯買的脫膠原油就是這一罐對不對"},{"start":48.5,"end":51.5,"text":"對 我們自己也有生產"},{"start":51.5,"end":55.5,"text":"這一罐是不是你使用有的原料 是或不是"},{"start":55.5,"end":61.5,"text":"它不能使用 它必須要經過 它必須要經過精煉"},{"start":61.5,"end":65.5,"text":"我知道 它是不是原料 當然是原料"},{"start":65.5,"end":67.5,"text":"對啊 當然是原料啊"},{"start":67.5,"end":71.5,"text":"你跟中聯買了多少 它不是食品加"},{"start":71.5,"end":74.5,"text":"你本來要跟他購買那一批是多少公噸"},{"start":74.5,"end":77.5,"text":"我們這內製的超標案是三千噸"},{"start":77.5,"end":79.5,"text":"三千噸嘛 對不對"},{"start":79.5,"end":87.5,"text":"那它5月11號我們去豐朝送驗的那個草"},{"start":87.5,"end":90.5,"text":"那個草它是一千一百多噸"},{"start":90.5,"end":93.5,"text":"都出問題嘛 超標嘛 對不對"},{"start":93.5,"end":98.5,"text":"那個草我們當初就是豐存了 我們也沒有載到"},{"start":98.5,"end":100.5,"text":"以前有沒有發生過這樣的情況"},{"start":100.5,"end":103.5,"text":"以前你們驗的有沒有發生這樣的情況"},{"start":103.5,"end":105.5,"text":"也有超標的情況 退驗的情況"},{"start":105.5,"end":107.5,"text":"以前驗都沒有這樣的狀況"},{"start":107.5,"end":109.5,"text":"都沒有超標嗎"},{"start":109.5,"end":111.5,"text":"都有符合我們的驗收標準"},{"start":111.5,"end":114.5,"text":"是多少 你們自己制定的驗收標準是要"},{"start":114.5,"end":117.5,"text":"那個本評比要幾ppb"},{"start":117.5,"end":119.5,"text":"本評比是兩ppb"},{"start":119.5,"end":122.5,"text":"都有符合在兩ppb以內嘛 對不對"},{"start":122.5,"end":126.5,"text":"那你為什麼要這樣子驗 你是依據食安法哪一條"},{"start":126.5,"end":131.5,"text":"沒有 這個是我們自己內定的一個招標的規格"},{"start":131.5,"end":133.5,"text":"所以你也可以不用驗就對了 可以"},{"start":133.5,"end":137.5,"text":"所以如果本評比超標 你們可以繼續製作就對了"},{"start":137.5,"end":141.5,"text":"我們會調整我們的製程 讓它那個本評比"},{"start":141.5,"end":144.5,"text":"那你這一批為什麼要退 如果按照你的邏輯"},{"start":144.5,"end":146.5,"text":"這個是我們招標合約裡頭"},{"start":146.5,"end":148.5,"text":"我們就已經定了規格在那裡"},{"start":148.5,"end":151.5,"text":"一定要符合我們的規格 不符合規格我們就是要退"},{"start":151.5,"end":155.5,"text":"那為什麼要定這個標準 既然你後面的技術都可以脫色脫酸"},{"start":155.5,"end":157.5,"text":"剛剛那個 待會我要問部長"},{"start":157.5,"end":159.5,"text":"那個成本會不一樣啊"},{"start":159.5,"end":161.5,"text":"成本會不一樣"},{"start":161.5,"end":165.5,"text":"所以不是因為食安法 是因為成本的關係"},{"start":165.5,"end":166.5,"text":"是 沒有錯"},{"start":166.5,"end":168.5,"text":"沒有錯 這是你的答案喔"},{"start":168.5,"end":173.5,"text":"你們針對原料的管理 是因為我不需要基本的嚴格把關"},{"start":173.5,"end":178.5,"text":"我是因為成本控制 所以我今天才去定出2ppb的"},{"start":178.5,"end":180.5,"text":"這樣的本評比的標準"},{"start":180.5,"end":186.5,"text":"就算說它本評比偏高 經過我們的精煉製程上面的調整"},{"start":186.5,"end":191.5,"text":"所以你之前到底有沒有購買過超過2ppb本評比的"},{"start":191.5,"end":195.5,"text":"是沒有啦 因為我們都定那個2ppb嘛"},{"start":195.5,"end":198.5,"text":"這樣的話對我們來講是整個製程會比較順暢"},{"start":198.5,"end":200.5,"text":"而且它成本是最低的"},{"start":200.5,"end":202.5,"text":"所以過去都沒有 沒有"},{"start":202.5,"end":206.5,"text":"然後你就定了2ppb 是 就定了國家的這個標準"},{"start":206.5,"end":208.5,"text":"那超標你也可以用"},{"start":208.5,"end":211.5,"text":"完全不涉及食安"},{"start":211.5,"end":214.5,"text":"這個聽起來非常的可怕 大家各位聽懂了嗎"},{"start":214.5,"end":218.5,"text":"就是說台糖也可以不用是2ppb喔"},{"start":218.5,"end":220.5,"text":"它不用是這樣子喔"},{"start":220.5,"end":224.5,"text":"因為對他們來講 剛剛石部長告訴大家的也是喔"},{"start":224.5,"end":226.5,"text":"就是即使它是原料"},{"start":226.5,"end":228.5,"text":"它今天超標沒有關係"},{"start":228.5,"end":231.5,"text":"其實坦白講你也可以不用退運啦 對不對"},{"start":231.5,"end":233.5,"text":"按照你的邏輯也可以不用退運啦"},{"start":233.5,"end":235.5,"text":"我繼續做 你沒有違反食安法"},{"start":235.5,"end":238.5,"text":"我們招標的時候的規格"},{"start":238.5,"end":240.5,"text":"你們太荒謬了"},{"start":240.5,"end":243.5,"text":"都不按照食安法辦事的嗎"},{"start":243.5,"end":246.5,"text":"既然脫交原有是你的原料"},{"start":246.5,"end":249.5,"text":"原料有疑慮的時候"},{"start":249.5,"end":252.5,"text":"原料有疑慮你竟然還好意思說"},{"start":252.5,"end":254.5,"text":"我的技術夠"},{"start":254.5,"end":256.5,"text":"所以我可以繼續做"},{"start":256.5,"end":258.5,"text":"剛剛石崇良部長也是這樣子講"},{"start":258.5,"end":260.5,"text":"這樣子有道理嗎"},{"start":260.5,"end":262.5,"text":"這樣子有道理嗎"},{"start":262.5,"end":264.5,"text":"食安法它規格不斷的"},{"start":264.5,"end":266.5,"text":"所以你們是說只要是出交原有"},{"start":266.5,"end":268.5,"text":"根本就不用設標準"},{"start":268.5,"end":270.5,"text":"反正只要我可以不斷的精煉"},{"start":270.5,"end":272.5,"text":"到最終的產品"},{"start":272.5,"end":274.5,"text":"只要符合2PPB就好了"},{"start":274.5,"end":277.5,"text":"那你的食安法我們都要定假的嗎"},{"start":277.5,"end":279.5,"text":"從原料就應該要開始檢驗"},{"start":279.5,"end":281.5,"text":"在你的邏輯裡面"},{"start":281.5,"end":283.5,"text":"原料不需要"},{"start":283.5,"end":285.5,"text":"只要我有本事把它精煉出"},{"start":285.5,"end":286.5,"text":"檢測不到"},{"start":286.5,"end":287.5,"text":"那是我的本事"},{"start":287.5,"end":288.5,"text":"是這樣子嗎"},{"start":288.5,"end":290.5,"text":"沒有 出油它不能"},{"start":290.5,"end":292.5,"text":"它就長這個樣子"},{"start":292.5,"end":294.5,"text":"那是你的原料不是嗎"},{"start":294.5,"end":296.5,"text":"這個是 對呀"},{"start":296.5,"end":297.5,"text":"這個就是出油"},{"start":297.5,"end":299.5,"text":"對呀 那你的原料就應該要把關"},{"start":299.5,"end":301.5,"text":"就要符合食安法的規範"},{"start":301.5,"end":303.5,"text":"原料沒有規範"},{"start":303.5,"end":305.5,"text":"食安法都沒有規範"},{"start":305.5,"end":307.5,"text":"那就是衛福部食品"},{"start":307.5,"end":309.5,"text":"食安法它的規範"},{"start":309.5,"end":311.5,"text":"它是針對食品"},{"start":311.5,"end":313.5,"text":"就是說你直接可以用的"},{"start":313.5,"end":315.5,"text":"原料都不規範的"},{"start":315.5,"end":317.5,"text":"原料已經出現"},{"start":317.5,"end":319.5,"text":"一幾次癌物都不用規範的"},{"start":319.5,"end":321.5,"text":"它不是有一律的商品嗎"},{"start":321.5,"end":323.5,"text":"沒有 你經過精煉"},{"start":323.5,"end":325.5,"text":"存化之後"},{"start":325.5,"end":327.5,"text":"它就會變成這個樣子"},{"start":327.5,"end":329.5,"text":"所以原料是可以不用管的"},{"start":329.5,"end":331.5,"text":"要管 因為它會影響成本"},{"start":331.5,"end":333.5,"text":"只是因為成本不是食安的考量"},{"start":333.5,"end":335.5,"text":"好 來台長請回去"},{"start":335.5,"end":337.5,"text":"我問一下那個"},{"start":337.5,"end":339.5,"text":"經濟部長次"},{"start":339.5,"end":341.5,"text":"請問台長的社會責任是什麼"},{"start":341.5,"end":343.5,"text":"至少門前雪"},{"start":343.5,"end":345.5,"text":"我今天發現"},{"start":345.5,"end":347.5,"text":"我的脫膠原油"},{"start":347.5,"end":349.5,"text":"這個本便品超標"},{"start":349.5,"end":351.5,"text":"超標了七倍"},{"start":351.5,"end":353.5,"text":"我只要默默的把它退回去就好"},{"start":353.5,"end":355.5,"text":"因為不符合我的採購規定"},{"start":355.5,"end":357.5,"text":"但是我完全不需要"},{"start":357.5,"end":359.5,"text":"我完全不需要通報"},{"start":359.5,"end":361.5,"text":"這個叫做至少門前雪"},{"start":361.5,"end":363.5,"text":"在經濟部的標準好低"},{"start":363.5,"end":365.5,"text":"一個至少門前雪的人"},{"start":365.5,"end":367.5,"text":"說他是模範生"},{"start":367.5,"end":369.5,"text":"請問你的社會責任在哪裡"},{"start":369.5,"end":371.5,"text":"你不覺得很異常嗎"},{"start":371.5,"end":373.5,"text":"今天你脫膠原油是第一次買"},{"start":373.5,"end":375.5,"text":"是不是 如果以前都是"},{"start":375.5,"end":377.5,"text":"符合標準 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