{"error":false,"id":["170843"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170843,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170843","日期":"2026-08-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-22","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":22,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-05T11:22:22+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-05T11:49:47+08:00","影片長度":"00:27:25","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d053bb9b075f6aeaf00874d279d149f6cd75ebd3fcd1029c9e152d6567b454d3339739331fca71b35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱慧洳","委員發言時間":"11:22:22 - 11:49:47","會議時間":"2026-08-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請衛生福利部部長、行政院食品安全辦公室、教育部、國防部、經濟部、台灣糖業股份有限公司及行政院消費者保護處就「從致癌油事件發展迄今，中央一味『蓋牌、吃案、當門神』有關行政究責之重做完整調查報告(含台糖失職、食安警訊斷鏈責任、團體訴訟求償進度)及未來如何確保安全無虞的國軍團膳、學生營養午餐」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n（下午2時30分起，若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、審查行政院函請審議「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、繼續審查委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、繼續審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、繼續審查委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n......（完整內容，詳見議事日程）\n二十、審查委員許宇甄等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、審查委員郭國文等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第七條及第四十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、審查國民黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、審查委員廖偉翔等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第七條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、審查委員李彥秀等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、審查委員羅智強等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十七、審查委員盧縣一等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十八、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十九、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十、審查委員王育敏等25人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十一、審查委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十二、審查委員林月琴等24人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十三、審查委員林淑芬等21人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十五、審查委員李坤城等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十六、審查委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十七、審查委員劉建國等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【逐條討論，不詢答】\n【第二十至二十二案，如經復議則不予審查；第一案及第二十三至三十七案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":3.3890937500000002,"end":11.387843750000002,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":12.180968750000002,"end":13.817843750000002,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"賴次長建信","start":14.037218750000001,"end":14.83034375,"speaker_score":0.947},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":14.914718750000002,"end":52.562843750000006,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":53.37284375,"end":56.00534375,"speaker_score":0.811},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":56.393468750000004,"end":58.30034375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":58.165343750000005,"end":58.587218750000005,"speaker_score":0.811},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":58.587218750000005,"end":58.604093750000004,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":58.604093750000004,"end":59.14409375,"speaker_score":0.811},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":59.14409375,"end":59.768468750000004,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":59.768468750000004,"end":61.59096875,"speaker_score":0.811},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":59.852843750000005,"end":60.612218750000004,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":61.979093750000004,"end":63.852218750000006,"speaker_score":0.811},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":62.502218750000004,"end":62.85659375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":63.27846875,"end":118.15596875000001,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":118.86471875000001,"end":127.04909375000001,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":126.77909375,"end":142.03409375,"speaker_score":0.811},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":137.00534375,"end":139.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":139.03034375000001,"end":139.18221875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":139.18221875,"end":140.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":140.02596875,"end":157.10346875000002,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":142.03409375,"end":144.46409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":144.54846875,"end":144.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":157.64346875,"end":158.08221875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":158.08221875,"end":166.14846875,"speaker_score":0.811},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":158.20034375,"end":158.21721875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":158.23409375,"end":161.33909375000002,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":162.82409375,"end":175.21034375000002,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":174.13034375,"end":192.54096875000002,"speaker_score":0.811},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":181.01534375,"end":181.03221875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":181.03221875,"end":187.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":187.02284375000002,"end":189.85784375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":189.85784375,"end":189.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":190.36409375000002,"end":204.94409375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":203.61096875,"end":204.79221875000002,"speaker_score":0.811},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":204.94409375,"end":205.97346875000002,"speaker_score":0.811},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"邱委員慧洳","start":205.97346875000002,"end":248.27909375000002,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"石部長崇良","start":206.24346875,"end":207.93096875,"speaker_score":0.811},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":210.63096875000002,"end":210.73221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":211.05284375000002,"end":214.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":214.03971875000002,"end":214.05659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"余組長俊明","start":215.62596875000003,"end":215.71034375000002,"speaker_score":0.731},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":215.71034375000002,"end":217.36409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"余組長俊明","start":217.36409375000002,"end":217.58346875,"speaker_score":0.731},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"余組長俊明","start":217.87034375000002,"end":218.7140937500000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":"2026-08-05T11:23:29.807692+08:00","text":"我們就是就事論事，怎麼會獵巫，我們又不是青鳥側翼，怎麼會獵巫呢？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:23:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:23:34.791667+08:00","text":"好，所以神秘的專家，你們到時候會公布，我們就拭目以待。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:23:35.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:23:52.777778+08:00","text":"現在重點來了，我們講內容，內容就是因為剛剛陳菁徽委員也有秀會議紀錄，我有觀察到，會議紀錄最後的結論就是建議，建議將專家所提的建議納入考量，建議業者預防性下架以20％為標準，可是建議怎麼變強制？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:23:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:24:03.777778+08:00","text":"7月4號公布的新聞就是強制，不就是20％以上的下架，20％以下還可以在架上，這不就是當時的法律秩序，請問一下誰拍板？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:24:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:24:08.875000+08:00","text":"剛剛陳菁徽委員已經有問了，好像是姜至剛署長拍板的嘛，因為你是會議主席嘛。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:24:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:24:19.791667+08:00","text":"所以這個20％，學者只是建議，最後要有一個人拍板變成7月4號的法律秩序，剛剛好像陳菁徽委員有問到是姜至剛署長拍板，我只是在確認。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:24:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:24:28.578947+08:00","text":"這個問題太重要了，我只是在確認，所以姜署長，是你拍板嘛，不是石部長拍板，也不是行政院長拍板嘛？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:24:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:24:40.692308+08:00","text":"再跟委員說明，這一次整個的預防性下架是逐步的在擴大，它的範圍是逐步的擴大，一開始是問題油品就已經下架……","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:24:40.692308+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:24:41.692308+08:00","text":"不用講那些，我都知道了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:24:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:24:43.727273+08:00","text":"7月8號24點才把第二層的產品……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:24:43.727273+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:24:46+08:00","text":"油品的部分已經下架，後面都是都是屬於預防性的擴大……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:24:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:24:50.857143+08:00","text":"不要轉移焦點，不要問A答B，因為時間很有限，我後面題目很多。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:24:51.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:24:52.280000+08:00","text":"請問一下是誰拍板？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:24:52.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:24:58.666667+08:00","text":"姜至剛署長，你要不要為自己捍衛一下，因為剛剛聽起來就是你嘛，你是會議主席，最後是你拍板嘛。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:24:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:00.666667+08:00","text":"這個最後都是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:02.428571+08:00","text":"沒關係，你不要護航，我在問姜至剛……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:04.777778+08:00","text":"這個都是我們衛福部來處理的，這個都是逐步逐步……","quality":0.381},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:05.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:06.636364+08:00","text":"所以就是石崇良拍板嘛！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:15.714286+08:00","text":"我就是要一個人名而已嘛，你的意思就是說都是你們衛福部，那就是你加上姜至剛署長兩個人嘛，意思就是這樣嗎？","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:15.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:16.714286+08:00","text":"還是你還要再去……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:22.428571+08:00","text":"這個最後要怎麼樣擴大預防性的下架，都是參考了……","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:22.428571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:23.428571+08:00","text":"不是，這個20％，你們到現在不是都還認為很正確……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:22.857143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:27.571429+08:00","text":"參考了我們專家會議的建議，然後……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:27.571429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:30+08:00","text":"……你會把20％拿掉，署長，你們不是到現在都還認為20％很正確……","quality":0.174},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:31.777778+08:00","text":"再根據我們調查的結果，然後去制定決策啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:34.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:46.769231+08:00","text":"而會戛然而止，只是因為不希望地方他在執行上有困難，如果你真的覺得這20％這麼的美好，為什麼到現在問一個人名問不出來，這樣子不是讓我們很質疑嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:48.750000+08:00","text":"不會，我們已經同意了啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:48.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:49.750000+08:00","text":"我們下午就把會議紀錄……","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:49.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:50.750000+08:00","text":"不是，就是誰拍板嘛？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:49.210526+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:49.842105+08:00","text":"就是誰拍板嘛？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:50.052632+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:52.789474+08:00","text":"就你跟姜至剛署長兩個人拍板嗎？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:52.789474+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:53.789474+08:00","text":"我之前就已經回答過了，所以這個我負責啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:57.142857+08:00","text":"為什麼問一個……你如果認為20％都正確沒有問題，為什麼要迴避、要閃躲？","quality":0.679},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:57.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:57.857143+08:00","text":"20％是誰拍板？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:58.400000+08:00","text":"沒有問題啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:58.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:25:58.900000+08:00","text":"沒問題啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:25:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:26:00.466667+08:00","text":"沒有問題，你就講啊，到底是誰？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:26:00.466667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:26:01.466667+08:00","text":"就是我啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:26:00.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:26:00.866667+08:00","text":"是你嘛！是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:26:01.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:26:04+08:00","text":"石崇良拍板20％嘛，就是這樣子喔？是。好。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:26:04.352941+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:26:08.818182+08:00","text":"奇怪，這個答案其實早就可以承認了，為什麼到今天8月5號才承認？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:26:09.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:26:17.846154+08:00","text":"來，台糖蓋牌，我想台糖的事情，我們都非常了解，如果不是臺中的地方法院吹哨的話，我想我們全民現在還蒙在鼓裡。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:26:18.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:26:25.777778+08:00","text":"剛剛我也講了，南僑沒有通報被開罰，台糖沒有通報卻被開脫，很明顯的就是雙標嘛！","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:26:26.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:26:31.818182+08:00","text":"現在部長說大家去追究台糖，你不了解這個邏輯，我們才不了解你的邏輯。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:26:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:26:43.750000+08:00","text":"因為邏輯很簡單，邏輯就是食安法第七條第五項，如果發現產品有危害安全衛生之虞，就應該要通報當地的主管縣市，所以邏輯很簡單啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:26:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:26:45.846154+08:00","text":"第七條第五項法有明文規定啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:26:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:26:50.818182+08:00","text":"產品有危害衛生安全之虞就要通報，請問哪裡不了解這個邏輯？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:26:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:02.750000+08:00","text":"我的邏輯很清楚，我們訂的苯駢芘標準是針對食用油脂，台糖這個是脫膠原油，我們沒有訂脫膠原油的標準，很清楚。","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:10.357143+08:00","text":"好，石部長，我要跟你講一件事，不是法律專家就不要亂解釋法律，不是法律專家不懂法律就請藏拙。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:13.750000+08:00","text":"什麼叫做脫膠原油不是食品？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:19.571429+08:00","text":"食安法哪一條告訴我們，脫膠原油半成品不是食品？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:24.750000+08:00","text":"食安法哪一條告訴我們，脫膠原油這個半成品不是食品？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:29.666667+08:00","text":"脫膠原油沒有訂標準，BaP的標準是指食用油脂……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:30.470588+08:00","text":"不是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:30.705882+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:33.764706+08:00","text":"人家現在就是說產品有危害之虞……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:36.800000+08:00","text":"脫膠原油不是食用油脂，所以它就沒有標準啊！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:38.500000+08:00","text":"沒有標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:38.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:39.500000+08:00","text":"沒有標準……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:40.714286+08:00","text":"如果要訂也可以……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:40.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:41.714286+08:00","text":"來，我再問你一件事……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:42.818182+08:00","text":"我們大家來討論要訂多少……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:42.818182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:43.818182+08:00","text":"我現在問你一件事……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:43.818182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:44.818182+08:00","text":"可是全世界沒有人訂脫膠原油的苯駢芘標準。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:43.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:47.600000+08:00","text":"部長，我問你一件事，你是不是人？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:49+08:00","text":"你是人嘛。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:50.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:27:58.818182+08:00","text":"生你的阿公的阿公，你來自於阿公的阿公嘛，今天才有你存在站在這裡，你是人嘛，那麼你阿公的阿公是不是人？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:27:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:05.785714+08:00","text":"你下游這個人的產品是從上游來的嘛，你的阿公應該……你阿公是不是人，你回答不出來？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:08.625000+08:00","text":"你的阿公是不是人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:10.333333+08:00","text":"我是人……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:12.750000+08:00","text":"對，你阿公是不是人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:14.833333+08:00","text":"但是我的細胞，不能說細胞就是人啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:16.846154+08:00","text":"不是啦，我在問你阿公是不是人啦？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:18.555556+08:00","text":"你就是從阿公來的嘛！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:20.600000+08:00","text":"人是由細胞……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:20.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:21.600000+08:00","text":"好，我現在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:22.666667+08:00","text":"然後組成器官形成人，你不能說細胞就是人啊！","quality":0.316},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:22.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:23.666667+08:00","text":"你的阿公是不是人都不敢回答，迴避到這種程度……","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:23.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:24.666667+08:00","text":"那是不同的東西啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:24.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:25.666667+08:00","text":"不是啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:32.714286+08:00","text":"你就回答你阿公是不是人，你就回答我，不要打臉我的邏輯啊！","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:32.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:33.714286+08:00","text":"你也不能說眼睛這個器官是人啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:33.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:34.714286+08:00","text":"不一樣的東西……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:34.800000+08:00","text":"我問你，你的阿公是不是人？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:36.750000+08:00","text":"我不了解你的邏輯。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:38.750000+08:00","text":"你不了解我的邏輯啊？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:42.833333+08:00","text":"你現在就是護航到連你的阿公是不是人，你都沒有辦法回應？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:43.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:45.571429+08:00","text":"好，我問部長的邏輯就是，如果今天……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:45.571429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:46.571429+08:00","text":"請不要詆毀我的阿公……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:45.761905+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:48.809524+08:00","text":"我沒有要批評你的阿公，是因為你不回答……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:48.809524+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:49.809524+08:00","text":"委員，不要詆毀我的阿公。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:49.809524+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:50.809524+08:00","text":"我在跟你講生物學……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:51.800000+08:00","text":"我現在要問你，你的粗油是不是食品？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:51.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:52.800000+08:00","text":"細胞不等於人，眼睛是一個器官，也不會等於人。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:28:57.823529+08:00","text":"如果你今天說大豆沙拉油是食品，為什麼它的上游半成品不是食品？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:28:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:02.250000+08:00","text":"我現在問一件事，食安法，你看不懂食安法，請藏拙。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:04.846154+08:00","text":"食安法對於食品的定義是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:07.750000+08:00","text":"來，講一下，食品的定義是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:09.666667+08:00","text":"產品跟原料嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:10.176471+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:19.200000+08:00","text":"為什麼剛剛有一個人講原料不是食品，因為考量成本，所以食安法才把原料歸進去，原料不是食品，這是誰的論述？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:19.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:27.800000+08:00","text":"剛剛有一個人的論述，陳菁徽委員問的，原料不是食品，請問一下部長，你覺得原料是食品嗎？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:33.714286+08:00","text":"在食安法第三條明定食品當然包含產品及其原料，但是第七條……","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:35.714286+08:00","text":"如果原料是食品，更上游……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:41.625000+08:00","text":"第七條的通報，你也可以念一下，它談的是產品通報。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:42+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:45.750000+08:00","text":"如果原料是食品，原料最後會變成成品……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:45.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:46.750000+08:00","text":"第七條第五項寫的是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:47.777778+08:00","text":"中間會有經過半成品……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:47.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:48.777778+08:00","text":"在螢幕上面的文字很清楚……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:48.187500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:50.812500+08:00","text":"請問一下，如果原料都已經是食品了，半成品怎麼不會是食品？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:29:57.818182+08:00","text":"食品業者於發現產品有危害健康……所以它針對的通報是產品。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:29:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:01.809524+08:00","text":"你為什麼覺得「產品」兩個字沒有包括成品跟半成品？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:06.800000+08:00","text":"為什麼你覺得成品兩個字……我們看一下食安法第七條第二項……","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:06.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:07.800000+08:00","text":"我再講一遍，我們所訂的苯駢芘的標準是食用油脂……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:10.733333+08:00","text":"食品業者應該把產品原材料、半成品、成品……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:10.733333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:13+08:00","text":"不是脫膠原油的標準。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:16.800000+08:00","text":"你不要東拉西扯，我現在是在跟你講產品。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:17.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:32.764706+08:00","text":"我請姜至剛署長，我知道你有法律背景，請問一下，關於「產品」兩個字，依食安法第七條第五項，我們在講如果產品有危害衛生健康之虞時要通報，請問「產品」兩個字有包括成品跟半成品嗎？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:34.714286+08:00","text":"我想這邊的產品……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:37.700000+08:00","text":"你有讀過法律，請你不要……","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:43.750000+08:00","text":"相對應……我們對於規制裡面有訂標準的這些產品有違規，我們要通報。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:47.818182+08:00","text":"不要限縮解釋到這種程度，我們現在單純就在講產品。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:49.777778+08:00","text":"我想這個部分我的了解是這樣子，跟您做進一步的交流，謝謝。","quality":0.32},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:30:50.750000+08:00","text":"什麼東西？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T11:30:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:01.785714+08:00","text":"我說就我的了解，我們對於這個產品，它有訂定特定衛生標準的苯駢芘，所以這個產品有違規，一定要通報。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:01.785714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:04.133333+08:00","text":"「之虞」好嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:04.133333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:12.700000+08:00","text":"你把「之虞」……林淑芬委員在一個月之前就已經把「之虞」兩個字一再而再的提醒衛福部了，「之虞」就是沒有嚴格標準。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:13.800000+08:00","text":"懂不懂法律？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:15.857143+08:00","text":"現在是連文義解釋也掌握不了嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:15.857143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:16.857143+08:00","text":"這個部分謝謝委員的指導……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:16.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:26.666667+08:00","text":"第一件事，我現在簡單的問，為什麼食安法第七條第五項的「產品」兩個字被你們解釋起來不包括成品跟半成品，為什麼？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:42.750000+08:00","text":"如果你的第二項有提到產品、原材料、半成品、成品，就代表ABC這項元素就是在食安食品的範圍之內，為什麼「產品」兩個字被你們解釋起來沒有成品跟半成品？","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:50.714286+08:00","text":"委員，如果要把它做最大、擴大的解釋也不是不行，但是它的基本要件是要訂有標準，沒有訂有標準……","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:54.777778+08:00","text":"人家已經「之虞」了，請問「之虞」會有標準嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:57.666667+08:00","text":"「之虞」，你看不懂法律嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:31:58.833333+08:00","text":"「之虞」會有標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:31:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:32:02.714286+08:00","text":"你現在為了要護航，護航到這種程度！沒有。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:32:03.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:32:03.800000+08:00","text":"我先跟你……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:32:03.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:32:05.250000+08:00","text":"委員，你是學法律的……","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:32:05.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:32:08.818182+08:00","text":"就因為是法律專家，所以聽不下去，我在下面就是聽得很痛苦。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:32:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:32:11.333333+08:00","text":"你要知道，所有的法律都有……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:32:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:32:12.857143+08:00","text":"我講一下，你要講法律是嗎？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:32:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:32:43.833333+08:00","text":"你們的第三十條、你們的第三十一條、你們的第三十二條一路以下，你們都把食品跟產品兩個字混用，回去看食安法，不要在這邊硬拗產品兩個字不是食品，產品兩個字其實就包括成品跟半成品，你們不要再不了解文義解釋，縱使不了解文義解釋，也應該掌握目的性的解釋，如果最上游的原料都被認為是食品，中間會經過半成品，最後會變成成品，為什麼中間那一個不叫食品？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:32:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:32:48.800000+08:00","text":"你們不要昧著良心說話，這個完全是聽不下去，完全對不起整部食安法！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:32:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:33:00.714286+08:00","text":"你們把整部食安法解釋得支離破碎，原料的歸原料，半成品的歸半成品，成品的歸成品，你們把整部食安法解釋得支離破碎，就只是為了護航。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:33:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:33:03.800000+08:00","text":"這些解釋也可以請您去看看吳焜裕教授，他就寫得非常的清楚。","quality":0.346},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:33:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:33:46.777778+08:00","text":"石崇良部長，請你去問法律專家，因為其實真的有法律專家已經打臉你了，高檢署主任他已經打臉你了，人家是讀法律的，你不是讀法律的，你也許是衛生福利事項的專家，但你不是解釋法律的專家，我們解釋法律有文義解釋、有目的性解釋、有體系解釋，不管用哪一種標準解釋，解釋進來產品兩個字就是包括成品跟半成品，我再說一次，產品兩個字就是食品，我再說一次，食安法從第一條看到最後一條，產品跟食品兩個字完全是混用的，禁得起考驗，大家自己去翻食安法。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:33:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:33:50.600000+08:00","text":"請問一下經濟部的爛菜說，部長認同嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:33:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:00.714286+08:00","text":"你如果去買菜，結果那個阿姨跟你講說，你買到這個爛菜，請問你作何感想？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:04.857143+08:00","text":"部長，你買到這個爛菜，請問你作何感想？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:11.600000+08:00","text":"我在問石崇良部長，請問你買到這個爛菜，你作何感想？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:14.571429+08:00","text":"這個照片有問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:18.600000+08:00","text":"沒有關係啦，就AI啦，名字是你啦，對啦。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:20.714286+08:00","text":"這個沒有經過我同意，我抗議！","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:21.857143+08:00","text":"沒有經過你同意，這個就是……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:22.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:23.800000+08:00","text":"對這個圖片，我很抗議！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:24.750000+08:00","text":"你很抗議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:25.750000+08:00","text":"抗議什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:26.857143+08:00","text":"請問你抗議什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:28.888889+08:00","text":"沒有我的同意，怎麼會用我的肖像呢？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:31.714286+08:00","text":"肖像完全是……所以你要怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:31.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:32.714286+08:00","text":"可以這樣嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:33.250000+08:00","text":"你可以主張，當然可以啊！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:33.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:34.888889+08:00","text":"我可以把它換成是委員的嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:37.800000+08:00","text":"可以啊，你換啊，這沒有什麼啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:39.500000+08:00","text":"這本來就是可受公評、公開。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:40.888889+08:00","text":"我尊重委員的肖像權，我不會這樣做。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:46.714286+08:00","text":"沒關係，你如果真的覺得不舒服，或者如果你覺得我有違法，那就請你去提告。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:46.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:47.714286+08:00","text":"非常不舒服。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:34:54.800000+08:00","text":"非常不舒服，那我很遺憾，我很遺憾我在質詢，站在立法委員的職權，然後你不舒服，我很遺憾啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:34:55.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:01.333333+08:00","text":"如果你要我道歉，沒問題，可以跟你道歉，這根本是芝麻綠豆大的小事，沒有必要拿來質詢臺加以放大。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:04.916667+08:00","text":"這個不是芝麻綠豆大的小事。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:11.777778+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，如果你不舒服，我就道歉，現在就是如果今天你去買到一個爛菜，請問一下你作何感想？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:13.818182+08:00","text":"我當然不會想要買爛菜，我就不買啊！","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:15.833333+08:00","text":"對啊，你當然不會想買爛菜啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:17.833333+08:00","text":"那麼為什麼爛菜會流通到市面？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:19.857143+08:00","text":"因為政府沒有介入、政府沒有管制啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:27.666667+08:00","text":"所以爛菜才出現在菜攤上，你當然不會想要買爛菜，如果不通報，全民受害，連部長也會被包括進去。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:32.666667+08:00","text":"部長，請問你真的吃到毒油，你沒有關係嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:36.428571+08:00","text":"我們為油品做安全的把關，不會有毒油……","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:42.833333+08:00","text":"我告訴你，這些油已經全部都流到每個人的肚子裡面去，連賴總統都吃到了，你真的吃到毒油也沒關係嗎？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:43.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:47.750000+08:00","text":"我現在再問你一件事，請問一下，通報只能靠法律嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:54.333333+08:00","text":"我完完全全認為食安法第七條第五項就是包括成品、半成品還有原料，但你不認為。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:54.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:58.769231+08:00","text":"好，退一步言之，如果通報不能靠法律的話，能不能靠良心？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:35:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:35:59.857143+08:00","text":"能不能用高標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:36:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:36:10.818182+08:00","text":"法律只是一個最低的標準，良心是一個比較高的標準，難道我們對經濟部所屬的台糖公司，我們用的是最低的標準嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:36:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:36:12.833333+08:00","text":"我們不能用高一點的標準嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:36:12.833333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:36:14+08:00","text":"在食安上，我們希望大家一起把關，大家來通報，對有問題的通報，我們都支持。","quality":0.161},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:36:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:36:24.750000+08:00","text":"為了食安把關，全民來通報，我們都支持，我們也鼓勵，但是面對要裁罰的時候，我們必須依法裁處。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:36:25.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:36:26.846154+08:00","text":"依法裁處就是已經告訴你了……","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:36:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:36:28.666667+08:00","text":"這個就是法律保留原則。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:36:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:36:44.800000+08:00","text":"你們可能要請法律專家來幫你們鑑定第七條第五項有沒有包括產品，我相信你去問10個法律專家，有10個法律專家都會告訴你產品絕對有包括成品跟半成品，所以請你今天去找法律專家跟他們諮詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:36:45.818182+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:36:49.800000+08:00","text":"接著我們來看一下通報義務，要不要問總統？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:36:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:08.764706+08:00","text":"總統在當臺南市長的時候有訂出臺南市食品安全管理自治條例，他有提到食品有危害生命、身體之虞，48小時就要通報，請問一下石崇良部長，你認同賴清德總統在他市長任內所通過的這個自治條例嗎？","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:10.714286+08:00","text":"我認同依法行政。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:20.833333+08:00","text":"你認同依法行政，但是你今天認為台糖不用通報，你就完全是打臉總統在市長時期所訂出來的法律，因為我們大家解讀就是這樣嘛。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:21.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:23.750000+08:00","text":"我剛剛提到，我們需要依法行政……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:26.750000+08:00","text":"衛福部一路開綠燈開到現在。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:27.545455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:29.727273+08:00","text":"所以法要開罰一定要依法行政。","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:29.727273+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:30.727273+08:00","text":"依法行政？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:30.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:30.857143+08:00","text":"依法行政很好啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:31.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:32.750000+08:00","text":"這就是法律保留原則。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:34.750000+08:00","text":"沒關係，法律保留。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:37.454545+08:00","text":"我們訂的就是食用油脂的苯駢芘標準。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:37.727273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:55.750000+08:00","text":"業者的產品有疑慮的通報義務已經保留給法律去制定了，就是食安法第七條第五項，它本身已經踐行法律保留原則啦，只是執法的人不認為法律裡頭的文義有包括半成品，所以你說你要依法行政，我舉雙手、雙腳贊成啊！","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:58.857143+08:00","text":"要不要擴大文義都沒有關係，但我還是強調……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:37:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:37:59.714286+08:00","text":"我沒有擴大文義啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:03.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:06.625000+08:00","text":"苯駢芘的標準是訂在食用油脂，不是訂在脫膠原油。","quality":0.381},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:06.625000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:07.625000+08:00","text":"這個叫做法律的文義解釋跟目的性解釋，還有體系解釋……什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:07.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:08.666667+08:00","text":"你再說一次。","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:19.818182+08:00","text":"我們的苯駢芘標準是訂在食用油脂，不是脫膠原油，如果這樣下去的時候，可能還有很多都沒有通報……","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:19.818182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:20.818182+08:00","text":"你有沒有看得懂「之虞」？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:21.714286+08:00","text":"你剛開始在跟我辯說產品不包括半成品……","quality":0.412},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:22.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:25.600000+08:00","text":"如果今天的脫膠原油驗出的是2.4，你要不要通報？","quality":0.45},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:39.833333+08:00","text":"等我已經打臉你打到臉很腫，你講不下去，你已經放棄護守「產品」兩個字，你現在再給我護守「之虞」兩個字，說這個是嚴格的標準，什麼苯駢芘的標準，「之虞」兩個字有嚴格的標準嗎？","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:42.666667+08:00","text":"到底看不看得懂法律啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:48.500000+08:00","text":"所以現在沒有通報是出在「產品」兩個字還是出在「之虞」兩個字？部長。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:51.700000+08:00","text":"要裁罰，我們一定要有依據。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:51.700000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:52.700000+08:00","text":"依據就是第七條第五項啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:52.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:56.600000+08:00","text":"就我們的依據，苯駢芘是訂在食用油脂……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:38:58.714286+08:00","text":"依第七條第五項啊！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:38:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:03.200000+08:00","text":"如果今天苯駢芘是零檢出，那麼大家都要……","quality":0.412},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:03.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:04.800000+08:00","text":"「之虞」兩個字就是沒有嚴格標準，「之虞」兩個字……","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:07.727273+08:00","text":"但是我們訂的是食用油脂的苯駢芘標準。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:10.437500+08:00","text":"林淑芬委員等一下會問你，你要不要再問他對「之虞」兩個字的高見？","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:12.857143+08:00","text":"請問一下，台糖的事件，衛福部什麼時候知情的？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:17.818182+08:00","text":"我們是兩天前知情的，那衛福部什麼時候知情的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:29.666667+08:00","text":"我們是專家進入……我們署內的同仁進去調查原因的時候，看到的報告裡面有看到是7月15號前後……","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:31.777778+08:00","text":"所以你們7月15號才知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:31.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:32.777778+08:00","text":"不知道……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:32.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:33.666667+08:00","text":"……台糖這個事件？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:33.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:34.666667+08:00","text":"所以之前完全不知道這件事情。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:36.833333+08:00","text":"所以你們7月15號才知道台糖這個事件。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:39:41.666667+08:00","text":"再來請經濟部，經濟部有請，請問一下，你們什麼時候知道這個台糖事件？","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:39:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:02.666667+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，7月9日高雄市政府採用預防性下架的時候，我們就積極了解台糖的所有產品有沒有危害食品安全之虞。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:04.818182+08:00","text":"所以你是7月9日才知道嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:06.600000+08:00","text":"所以是7月9日才知道。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:07.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:08.800000+08:00","text":"台糖公司有把這個事情報告……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:12.818182+08:00","text":"那時候火燒那麼大，你有沒有跟行政院院長報告？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:13.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:21.454545+08:00","text":"因為經過我們了解，台糖所有的產品及原料都合乎食安法的規定。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:34.769231+08:00","text":"第二個，台糖所採購的脫膠原油，其不允收的部分始終在臺中的中聯廠裡面，並沒有到台糖的生產供應鏈……","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:35.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:35.833333+08:00","text":"我現在問你……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:37.714286+08:00","text":"而臺中地方法院","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:38.750000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:39.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:42.333333+08:00","text":"新聞稿提到中聯跟福懋有通報的責任。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:46.666667+08:00","text":"你說他退回給中聯，請問中聯要由誰通報？","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:48.800000+08:00","text":"許輔主任剛剛是說……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:49.769231+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:50.846154+08:00","text":"新聞稿講得很清楚啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:51.800000+08:00","text":"是誰要通報？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:52.800000+08:00","text":"他們就是要通報。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:54.500000+08:00","text":"誰要通報？中聯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:40:58.750000+08:00","text":"好，我請問許輔主任，誰要通報？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T11:40:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:01.454545+08:00","text":"這個貨物的主人是中聯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:04.571429+08:00","text":"所以誰要通報？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:05.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:06.454545+08:00","text":"這個只是脫膠原油嘛。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:10.500000+08:00","text":"所以你們都覺得是中聯要通報嗎？是嗎？是。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:15.666667+08:00","text":"如果你們覺得中聯要通報，請問法律依據在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:15.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:16.666667+08:00","text":"東西是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:20.818182+08:00","text":"因為它只是原料，它只是脫膠原油，請問要通報的依據是什麼？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:20.818182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:21.818182+08:00","text":"所以我剛剛所講假設……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:22.714286+08:00","text":"是第七條第五項嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:39.833333+08:00","text":"你們不是認為第七條第五項不能夠作為脫膠原油的通報依據，如果台糖不用通報，到了中聯就要通報，而中聯用的法條就是第七條第五項，台糖因為七條第五項不能用，但到了中聯就可以用，請問通報的法源依據在哪裡？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:40.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:50.750000+08:00","text":"我向委員說明，同樣在第十七條是衛生標準，我剛有跟王委員說明生菌素，所有生的肉和魚都是超標……","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:55.714286+08:00","text":"有危害安全之虞，「之虞」兩個字是非常寬鬆的……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:55.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:56.714286+08:00","text":"今天我要煮飯前不會全部都去……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:41:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:41:57.818182+08:00","text":"不要再跟我講嚴格的苯駢芘標準。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:00.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:03.428571+08:00","text":"所有的……你要看樣態、原料屬於哪一類。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:12.750000+08:00","text":"樣態就是台糖啊，台糖的樣態就是不用通報，樣態就是中聯啊，中聯就是要通報，這就是你們的樣態啊！","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:12.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:13.750000+08:00","text":"我指的是食品和原料屬於哪一種？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:13.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:21.818182+08:00","text":"所以現在你們的抗辯已經從產品發展到「之虞」兩個字了，請問一下行政院院長為什麼在專案報告的時候……","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:29.700000+08:00","text":"跟委員舉個例子就會很容易理解，我們吃的豬排，它含有生菌，所以生菌要不要通報？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:35.750000+08:00","text":"不用，因為它最終的產品是做成炸豬排，會把生菌消除掉。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:37+08:00","text":"你說生菌是什麼？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:37+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:38+08:00","text":"細菌嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:37.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:37.750000+08:00","text":"細菌啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:39.714286+08:00","text":"肉裡面有細菌，不能說這塊肉有細菌就通報啊！","quality":0.368},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:41.750000+08:00","text":"那個是添加的細菌。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:42+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:46.888889+08:00","text":"你不要在這裏跟我胡扯，你跟我胡扯、跟我胡扯……","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:46.888889+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:47.888889+08:00","text":"因為它的產品……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:47.111111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:49.800000+08:00","text":"你的阿公，在你的耳裡聽起來很怪，這在我的耳裡聽起來也很怪……","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:50.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:53.777778+08:00","text":"在便利商店的成品就是這樣製造出來的。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:53.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:54.777778+08:00","text":"你不要再跟我扯細菌。","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:54.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:42:55.777778+08:00","text":"不會在前面處理通報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:42:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:03.866667+08:00","text":"我現在講的是半成品，是屬於食品的一環，你不要跟我扯東扯西，因為你的邏輯，我才不懂，你的邏輯，我不懂得一塌糊塗好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:04.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:09.818182+08:00","text":"請問行政院院長在食安會報怎麼沒有提到台糖這件事？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:11.750000+08:00","text":"你們有跟他報告嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:17.666667+08:00","text":"你們一個說7月9日知情、一個說7月15日知情，請問一下院長何時知道？","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:19.894737+08:00","text":"你們完全都沒有跟行政院院長報告過這件事嗎？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:26.200000+08:00","text":"我們院大概就是署長所提到的……所以……","quality":1},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:27.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:29.750000+08:00","text":"從預防性下架大概是9號，然後15號進場看到有這個批次。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:35.800000+08:00","text":"我知道啦，請問一下衛福部有沒有跟行政院院長報告？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:36.117647+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:37.882353+08:00","text":"石部長，你有沒有跟行政院院長報告台糖這件事？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:38.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:41.666667+08:00","text":"經濟部所屬的國營事業台糖。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:41.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:44+08:00","text":"我們在7月1日已經把它停工……","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:45.846154+08:00","text":"不是啦，你說有或沒有就好了，不要答非所問，時間很寶貴……","quality":0.478},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:45.846154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:48+08:00","text":"已經沒有在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:48.857143+08:00","text":"我後面還有一堆人。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:48.857143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:51.066667+08:00","text":"行政院院長不需要知道這件事嗎？","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:51.066667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:55+08:00","text":"在7月1號以後都已經停工了，所以這個脫膠原油也不可製造啦！","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:43:57.857143+08:00","text":"你有沒有跟行政院長報告這件事？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:43:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:01.857143+08:00","text":"你先回答，再請經濟部回答，你有沒有跟行政院院長報告這件事？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:05.384615+08:00","text":"當7月15日知道時，有沒有跟行政院院長報告？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:07.818182+08:00","text":"所以行政院院長跟我們一樣是兩天前才知道的嗎？","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:09.818182+08:00","text":"院長當然知道，我們最後一定會報告的嘛！","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:10.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:11.714286+08:00","text":"是什麼時候報告？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:13.800000+08:00","text":"這個日期有那麼難以啟齒嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:13.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:14.800000+08:00","text":"是什麼時候報告？","quality":0},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:15.666667+08:00","text":"日期要再確認。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:17.500000+08:00","text":"你要確認？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:19.866667+08:00","text":"因為我經常跟院長報告很多事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:20.307692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:21.846154+08:00","text":"好，什麼時候能夠跟我們確認？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:23.833333+08:00","text":"我要看看我能不能想得起來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:29.818182+08:00","text":"好，所以你就這麼不把你跟行政院院長的會面上心嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:37.777778+08:00","text":"居然還要看你想不想得起來，不能夠因為他沒有關心你眼中的血絲，你就這樣忽略院長啊！","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:37.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:40+08:00","text":"我們有報告啊，但是你一定要問幾月、幾號……","quality":0.294},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:43.777778+08:00","text":"有報告，但什麼時候你又講不出來，反正你就是講不出來。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:43.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:44.800000+08:00","text":"你問我幾月、幾號，我就要想一下。","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:44.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:53.777778+08:00","text":"我知道你要想，但你又說有可能想不起來，我想我們都很珍惜跟長官見面的機會，結果你居然想不起來。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:44:55.750000+08:00","text":"請問經濟部長什麼時候跟行政院院長報告？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:44:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:09.666667+08:00","text":"7月9日我們接獲台糖公司通報，它被高雄市政府預防性下架之後，我們的國營司就請台糖公司必須要配合地方主管機關的……","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:13.818182+08:00","text":"不是啦，跟行政院院長……不要講那麼多，因為我快要收尾了，好不好？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:15.833333+08:00","text":"我也不想讓後面的人等很久。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:17.800000+08:00","text":"我跟委員講的是事實。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:17.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:18.800000+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:19.777778+08:00","text":"什麼時候跟行政院院長報告？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:23.833333+08:00","text":"因為還沒聽到行政院長這四個關鍵字，什麼時候跟行政院院長報告的？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:29.750000+08:00","text":"因為依照台糖公司契約辦理的事項，它平常都不需要向經濟部做報告，只不過今天這件事情有涉及到……","quality":0.548},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:33.200000+08:00","text":"不是啦，你知情之後有沒有跟行政院院長報告？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:35.600000+08:00","text":"有還是沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:35.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:36.600000+08:00","text":"我們依照內部的規定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:37.714286+08:00","text":"所以你們沒有跟行政院院長報告嘛！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:40.200000+08:00","text":"不像石部長……沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:40.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:43.333333+08:00","text":"沒有跟行政院院長報告，沒有嘛！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:49.714286+08:00","text":"所以，只有石崇良部長向行政院院長報告而已，是這樣嗎？","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:51.818182+08:00","text":"你們沒有跟行政院院長報告。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:52.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:57.600000+08:00","text":"台糖公司會配合中央及地方專案清查的作業來辦理。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:45:59.875000+08:00","text":"不是，你們到底有沒有跟行政院院長報告？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:45:59.875000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:00.875000+08:00","text":"第一是沒有嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:03.833333+08:00","text":"相關檢查的結果，當然中央主管機關或是地方主管機關都會知道。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:11.833333+08:00","text":"不是啦，我在問行政院院長，他也是中央主管機關啊，我在問院長知不知道這件事？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:12.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:14.222222+08:00","text":"經濟部有沒有跟他報告？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:14.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:19.636364+08:00","text":"畢竟台糖是國營事業，你們有沒有跟院長報告？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:21.666667+08:00","text":"這麼難回答嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:27.666667+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，台糖生產的產品，比如大豆沙拉油……","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:27.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:28.666667+08:00","text":"簡答題，你們有沒有跟院長報告？","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:28.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:29.666667+08:00","text":"一句話，經濟部有沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:29.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:30.666667+08:00","text":"必須要依照食安法的規定……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:29.833333+08:00","text":"你們有沒有跟行政院長報告？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:30.833333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:33.818182+08:00","text":"要跟中央及地方主管機關進行報告，這個就是台糖公司的責任。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:34.133333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:36.153846+08:00","text":"所以你們沒有跟行政院長報告，是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:36.307692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:39.500000+08:00","text":"你們沒有跟行政院長報告，是嗎？是嗎？是嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:43.750000+08:00","text":"沒有報告嘛，就是沒有報告，是嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:45.818182+08:00","text":"聽起來就是沒有報告，是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴次長建信","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:51.750000+08:00","text":"就我知道的部分，我沒有參加過院長的會議，所以我沒有跟院長報告。","quality":0.607},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:55.666667+08:00","text":"你就講經濟部沒有報告就好了，不是嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:46:56.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:46:59+08:00","text":"好，經濟部沒有報告，是這樣嘛！OK。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:17.666667+08:00","text":"部長，我請問一下，這一批毒油1,300公噸，4月初或5月驗出、7月初才封存，請問你們在7月17日公布4月到6月中聯流出的這些油品，請問有公布批號嗎？有。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:21.714286+08:00","text":"你們公布了30個批號，在哪個批號之內？","quality":1},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:22.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:23.777778+08:00","text":"它沒有做成食用油脂，所以沒有批號。","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:24.500000+08:00","text":"不是，出貨啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:24.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:25.750000+08:00","text":"它不是出貨嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:26.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:27.666667+08:00","text":"它沒有出貨啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:27.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:28.666667+08:00","text":"從頭到尾沒出貨。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:28.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:29.333333+08:00","text":"它沒有出貨。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:30.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:37.500000+08:00","text":"它就在中聯裡面，沒有出貨，還在槽裡面，連精煉都還沒有做，所以沒有批號。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:39.866667+08:00","text":"所以今天是台糖去它的油槽取樣本。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:40.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:49.333333+08:00","text":"它把油槽封了之後取樣本，然後驗了之後超出驗收標準，它就不驗收啦！","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:49.333333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:50.333333+08:00","text":"它不驗收了。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:50.333333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:47:51.333333+08:00","text":"就不採購了，所以它就放在那裏。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:47:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:48:11.714286+08:00","text":"但是台糖有扎扎實實掌握14.7這個數字，食品業者如果對於半成品的安全有疑慮之虞就要通報當地的主管機關，顯然台糖就是沒有通報，貨雖然沒有到它這邊，但是它已經知道數據了。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:48:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:48:13.882353+08:00","text":"通報的義務是在於有沒有超出我們的標準……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:48:14.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:48:15.750000+08:00","text":"你們的標準……法條就寫「之虞」。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:48:15.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:48:16.750000+08:00","text":"我們的苯駢芘標準是指食用油脂的苯駢芘標準。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:48:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:48:17.833333+08:00","text":"奇怪了，你為什麼要超越法律呢？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:48:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:48:30.571429+08:00","text":"你比大法官還厲害，你不只解釋法律，你還超越法律，食品安全衛生法第七條已經說有危害健康、危害衛生、危害安全之虞，「之虞」兩個字有那麼難讀懂嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:48:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:48:37.818182+08:00","text":"委員，你在一個炸豬排工廠看到有塊生肉，它有細菌，你要不要通報？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:48:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:48:39.818182+08:00","text":"我不懂你的邏輯，你不要跟我談豬排，豬排跟這個完全不能類比……","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"石部長崇良","start":"2026-08-05T11:48:39.818182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:48:40.818182+08:00","text":"不會通報，因為後面會經過加溫、加熱過程達到我們的標準。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:48:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:48:45.857143+08:00","text":"如果你覺得你的阿公在這邊不適合被請出來，你的豬排也不適合在這邊請出來。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:48:46.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:48:57.833333+08:00","text":"我現在跟部長講一句，人民怒吼是725的事情，如果你們繼續荒腔走板，可能不是人民怒吼，我覺得可能是人民暴動了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員慧洳","start":"2026-08-05T11:48:58.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-05T11:49:45+08:00","text":"部長，我還是要跟你講，最後做一個總結，他們一直說第七條第五項的產品不包括半成品，半成品不是食用油，所以不需要根據第七條第五項進行通報，現在不管是從文意、目的性解釋或體系解釋，你們自己去看食安法，食安法的產品及食品兩個字是完全混用的，所以請不要再拿第七條第五項的產品不包括半成品當擋箭牌，擋不住之後，請不要從「之虞」兩個字上下其手，「之虞」兩個字就是代表不用嚴格的標準，所以不要在那邊提什麼苯駢芘怎樣、苯駢芘怎樣，請不要用這個當擋箭牌跟遮羞布，以上說明，謝謝。","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:49:45.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:49:48.357143+08:00","text":"謝謝邱慧洳委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-05T11:49:48.657143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-05T11:49:51.800000+08:00","text":"接下來請邱鎮軍委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}