{"error":false,"id":["170845"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170845,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170845","日期":"2026-08-05","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-26-22","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":22,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-05T11:49:54+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-05T12:12:19+08:00","影片長度":"00:22:25","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d053bb9b075f6aea098ebe358275707dcd75ebd3fcd1029c3a2459e91bea6e3b1027fd842694b5725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"11:49:54 - 12:12:19","會議時間":"2026-08-05T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：（上午9時起）\n邀請衛生福利部部長、行政院食品安全辦公室、教育部、國防部、經濟部、台灣糖業股份有限公司及行政院消費者保護處就「從致癌油事件發展迄今，中央一味『蓋牌、吃案、當門神』有關行政究責之重做完整調查報告(含台糖失職、食安警訊斷鏈責任、團體訴訟求償進度)及未來如何確保安全無虞的國軍團膳、學生營養午餐」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n（下午2時30分起，若上午議程尚未結束，待結束後接續召開）\n一、審查行政院函請審議「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、繼續審查委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、繼續審查委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、繼續審查委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。\n......（完整內容，詳見議事日程）\n二十、審查委員許宇甄等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n二十一、審查委員郭國文等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第七條及第四十八條之一條文修正草案」案。\n二十二、審查國民黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十三、審查委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十四、審查委員廖偉翔等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第七條及第四十七條條文修正草案」案。\n二十五、審查委員李彥秀等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十六、審查委員羅智強等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十七、審查委員盧縣一等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十八、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n二十九、審查委員許宇甄等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十、審查委員王育敏等25人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十一、審查委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十二、審查委員林月琴等24人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十三、審查委員林淑芬等21人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十四、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十五、審查委員李坤城等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十六、審查委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n三十七、審查委員劉建國等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【逐條討論，不詢答】\n【第二十至二十二案，如經復議則不予審查；第一案及第二十三至三十七案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.33971875,"end":24.70221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":24.870968750000003,"end":25.74846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.102218750000002,"end":31.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.650343750000005,"end":49.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":49.710968750000006,"end":50.048468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.048468750000005,"end":55.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.27971875,"end":56.798468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.99659375,"end":58.992218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.09784375,"end":58.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.56596875,"end":59.58284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.58284375,"end":59.59971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.59971875,"end":59.88659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.88659375,"end":62.11409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.742843750000006,"end":63.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.244718750000004,"end":64.64534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.80159375,"end":67.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":65.10096875,"end":65.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.20596875000001,"end":72.01971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.75409375000001,"end":71.81721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.01971875000001,"end":72.03659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.03659375000001,"end":74.02784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.10409375,"end":72.50909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.02784375,"end":76.71096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.33534375,"end":78.78659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.25909375,"end":83.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.11534375000001,"end":82.09409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.74784375,"end":85.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":87.00471875000001,"end":87.24096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.96659375,"end":88.50659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.03346875000001,"end":92.05034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":92.05034375000001,"end":93.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.14284375000001,"end":96.03284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.70346875,"end":102.63096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.57159375,"end":105.98909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.56284375000001,"end":109.58346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.41034375000001,"end":113.81909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.51534375000001,"end":114.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.17346875000001,"end":116.75534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.06346875000001,"end":117.43034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":118.15596875000001,"end":120.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.28659375000001,"end":120.60284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.08784375,"end":123.43784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.16784375,"end":124.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":124.90596875000001,"end":127.30221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.76221875,"end":129.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.11596875,"end":131.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.82846875,"end":135.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":135.89159375,"end":136.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.78596875,"end":140.41409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":141.83159375,"end":143.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.36721875,"end":144.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":144.02534375000002,"end":144.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.53159375,"end":145.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":146.11784375000002,"end":147.29909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.33284375000002,"end":148.86846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.55159375000002,"end":152.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":152.61471875,"end":155.06159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.21784375000001,"end":154.55534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.06159375000001,"end":172.30784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":173.67471875,"end":176.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":176.91471875000002,"end":178.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.03284375,"end":177.48846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":177.48846875,"end":177.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.56846875000002,"end":178.65284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":178.65284375000002,"end":186.17909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":186.46596875,"end":198.07596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.85346875000002,"end":190.88721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.22471875000002,"end":193.90784375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為今天也做了說明"},{"start":182.8,"end":184.8,"text":"所以第一個是中聯"},{"start":184.8,"end":187.8,"text":"一開始的7月4號那個瞬間"},{"start":187.8,"end":188.8,"text":"其實只有一批"},{"start":188.8,"end":189.8,"text":"原因不清楚"},{"start":189.8,"end":192.8,"text":"所以是專家拍板"},{"start":192.8,"end":195.8,"text":"接下來呢是專家會議裡面的第二個議題是"},{"start":195.8,"end":198.8,"text":"因為我們用下架的一個標準"},{"start":198.8,"end":201.8,"text":"2 ppb這麼嚴格的油脂的"},{"start":201.8,"end":203.8,"text":"我們歐盟韓國都是"},{"start":203.8,"end":207.8,"text":"所以韓國跟歐盟呢針對這個油品違規的時候"},{"start":207.8,"end":208.8,"text":"也是下架到第一層"},{"start":208.8,"end":211.8,"text":"針對第二層是否要下架判斷的基準"},{"start":211.8,"end":217.8,"text":"其實跟我們面對的這個扁平坪8.1 ppb的標準是一致的"},{"start":217.8,"end":219.8,"text":"所以底下產品是什麼樣子"},{"start":219.8,"end":221.8,"text":"所以才會出現20%"},{"start":221.8,"end":223.8,"text":"20%是什麼專家這一場還是"},{"start":223.8,"end":226.8,"text":"在專家會議這場裡面針對這個內容"},{"start":226.8,"end":228.8,"text":"做了非常完整的討論之後"},{"start":228.8,"end":230.8,"text":"因為第一層下架之後"},{"start":230.8,"end":233.8,"text":"有沒有可能會沒有涵蓋到"},{"start":233.8,"end":236.8,"text":"超過我們所謂的2 ppb的一個概念"},{"start":236.8,"end":238.8,"text":"所以大家開始在討論的時候"},{"start":238.8,"end":241.8,"text":"許多專家提到的確在2 ppb裡面"},{"start":241.8,"end":245.8,"text":"如果用的油脂的反應是超過20%"},{"start":245.8,"end":246.8,"text":"如果用的油脂的反應是超過20%"},{"start":246.8,"end":251.8,"text":"石廖署你邀請14個食品產業相關公會的這一場"},{"start":251.8,"end":254.8,"text":"新聞稿說召開這場的會議是為了"},{"start":254.8,"end":258.8,"text":"降低事件對消費者及下游業者的影響"},{"start":258.8,"end":261.8,"text":"那你們邀請了14個食品產業公會協會"},{"start":261.8,"end":263.8,"text":"代表下游業者"},{"start":263.8,"end":265.8,"text":"跟委員說報告一下這件事情"},{"start":265.8,"end":267.8,"text":"是不是你不要講那麼複雜"},{"start":267.8,"end":270.8,"text":"我說這個這麼14個產業裡面"},{"start":270.8,"end":272.8,"text":"相對都食品相關產業"},{"start":272.8,"end":274.8,"text":"我們先對的油品世界裡面"},{"start":274.8,"end":276.8,"text":"一定會對產業的衝擊"},{"start":276.8,"end":279.8,"text":"我們說明我們現在第一層下架"},{"start":279.8,"end":282.8,"text":"以及剛才講20%可能會成為我們建議部的"},{"start":282.8,"end":284.8,"text":"你先我不是要問你這個"},{"start":284.8,"end":285.8,"text":"你不要亂講"},{"start":285.8,"end":287.8,"text":"我現在問你你回答就好"},{"start":287.8,"end":291.8,"text":"那代表下游業者請問代表消費者的是誰"},{"start":291.8,"end":292.8,"text":"有嗎"},{"start":292.8,"end":300.8,"text":"我要把14個公協會協會來嘛"},{"start":300.8,"end":303.8,"text":"那這些都是食品公會啊"},{"start":303.8,"end":305.8,"text":"代表消費者是誰"},{"start":305.8,"end":306.8,"text":"有沒有"},{"start":306.8,"end":308.8,"text":"我這邊要回去再確認一下"},{"start":308.8,"end":310.8,"text":"可能消費者的溝通我們可能"},{"start":310.8,"end":311.8,"text":"我來問你好了啦"},{"start":311.8,"end":313.8,"text":"一個一個問啦"},{"start":315.8,"end":321.8,"text":"這個台灣植物油製電工業同業公會有去嗎"},{"start":321.8,"end":323.8,"text":"我預想中是有的"},{"start":323.8,"end":324.8,"text":"好"},{"start":324.8,"end":328.8,"text":"那台灣烘焙油紙工業同業公會有去嗎"},{"start":328.8,"end":331.8,"text":"我這邊可不可以請我們同仁們來14個"},{"start":331.8,"end":333.8,"text":"待會唸給委員們聽一下"},{"start":333.8,"end":336.8,"text":"確定一下那個整個14個"},{"start":336.8,"end":337.8,"text":"好啦這邊歸一歸啦"},{"start":337.8,"end":338.8,"text":"我這邊有資料"},{"start":338.8,"end":340.8,"text":"請你拿過去再勾一下"},{"start":341.8,"end":343.8,"text":"我繼續問啦他們勾他們的"},{"start":345.8,"end":347.8,"text":"那你現在我跟你講"},{"start":347.8,"end":351.8,"text":"就是說你們把這個公協會找去"},{"start":351.8,"end":353.8,"text":"消費者又把它放一邊"},{"start":353.8,"end":357.8,"text":"那這些公會他們是討論他們是業者的"},{"start":357.8,"end":360.8,"text":"讓業者的損失怎麼樣降到最低是嗎"},{"start":360.8,"end":361.8,"text":"不是這個"},{"start":361.8,"end":364.8,"text":"還是把消費者當作白老鼠"},{"start":364.8,"end":366.8,"text":"反正他們幾家14家去決定"},{"start":366.8,"end":368.8,"text":"你有問過消費者嗎"},{"start":368.8,"end":372.8,"text":"這是專家會議之後的來開的"},{"start":372.8,"end":375.8,"text":"因為會對產業的衝擊他們必須要去做因應"},{"start":375.8,"end":377.8,"text":"低衡他要配合"},{"start":377.8,"end":378.8,"text":"所以這個階段裡面"},{"start":378.8,"end":381.8,"text":"如果當天會議室裡面只有業者代表"},{"start":381.8,"end":383.8,"text":"沒有半個消費者代表"},{"start":383.8,"end":386.8,"text":"那我們院長最後拍板的20%門檻"},{"start":386.8,"end":388.8,"text":"到底評論了誰的意見"},{"start":388.8,"end":389.8,"text":"你拍板的啊"},{"start":389.8,"end":390.8,"text":"那你評論了誰的意見"},{"start":390.8,"end":393.8,"text":"我想這個20%在決策的過程中"},{"start":393.8,"end":396.8,"text":"其實做了非常完整的科學上面的分析"},{"start":396.8,"end":399.8,"text":"跟推論跟技術上面的一個討論"},{"start":399.8,"end":401.8,"text":"確定這樣子對民眾的健康"},{"start":401.8,"end":404.8,"text":"所以你們那邊可以得到確定的保障"},{"start":404.8,"end":405.8,"text":"20%"},{"start":405.8,"end":406.8,"text":"討論的結論是什麼"},{"start":406.8,"end":408.8,"text":"對實質的公協會裡面我們只說"},{"start":408.8,"end":410.8,"text":"我們對於低層下架"},{"start":410.8,"end":412.8,"text":"對於產業裡面可能的影響"},{"start":412.8,"end":414.8,"text":"你們要回去因應去了解"},{"start":414.8,"end":415.8,"text":"可能有品的使用"},{"start":415.8,"end":417.8,"text":"會有遇到什麼問題"},{"start":417.8,"end":418.8,"text":"需要大家能夠配合"},{"start":418.8,"end":421.8,"text":"避免現在有違規的有品"},{"start":421.8,"end":425.8,"text":"造成民眾持續加重他們的受傷"},{"start":425.8,"end":426.8,"text":"所以我們就是提到了"},{"start":426.8,"end":429.8,"text":"現在8.1PPP這一批的緣由"},{"start":429.8,"end":430.8,"text":"我們確定在這裡"},{"start":430.8,"end":433.8,"text":"是中聯產生4月4號的這一批"},{"start":433.8,"end":435.8,"text":"能夠所有的原因確定下來"},{"start":435.8,"end":436.8,"text":"你不要講"},{"start":436.8,"end":438.8,"text":"我現在就講說你這些業者去"},{"start":438.8,"end":439.8,"text":"誰代表消費者"},{"start":439.8,"end":440.8,"text":"有沒有嘛"},{"start":440.8,"end":441.8,"text":"我講業者"},{"start":441.8,"end":442.8,"text":"有沒有啦"},{"start":442.8,"end":443.8,"text":"我講業者"},{"start":443.8,"end":445.8,"text":"有沒有人代表消費者去開會"},{"start":445.8,"end":446.8,"text":"我說業者同時"},{"start":446.8,"end":448.8,"text":"都是每個都是消費者"},{"start":448.8,"end":449.8,"text":"彼此之間都是"},{"start":449.8,"end":451.8,"text":"所以我這邊特別提到的"},{"start":451.8,"end":452.8,"text":"你講的什麼話"},{"start":452.8,"end":453.8,"text":"他們業者全部都是消費者"},{"start":453.8,"end":455.8,"text":"對我說每個人都是消費者"},{"start":455.8,"end":456.8,"text":"我針對的是"},{"start":456.8,"end":458.8,"text":"那他們就是成員先排案"},{"start":458.8,"end":459.8,"text":"不是嗎"},{"start":459.8,"end":462.8,"text":"他們決定的事情可以做嗎"},{"start":462.8,"end":464.8,"text":"你們把消費者放在哪邊"},{"start":464.8,"end":467.8,"text":"就幾個業者來決定說"},{"start":467.8,"end":468.8,"text":"我們民眾的健康"},{"start":468.8,"end":469.8,"text":"他們沒有決定"},{"start":469.8,"end":470.8,"text":"這有人誤會了"},{"start":470.8,"end":471.8,"text":"這沒有決定"},{"start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那個油槽"},{"start":623.8,"end":624.8,"text":"對 那個油槽台糖的說法"},{"start":624.8,"end":626.8,"text":"5月9日他拉貨的時候"},{"start":626.8,"end":627.8,"text":"這個裁減檢體的時候"},{"start":627.8,"end":629.8,"text":"311油槽就已經先動過"},{"start":629.8,"end":631.8,"text":"這個做過遷封了嘛 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通報的責任啊"},{"start":1085.8,"end":1087.8,"text":"本來就應該要通報啊"},{"start":1087.8,"end":1089.8,"text":"你拿那個東西你放在那邊"},{"start":1089.8,"end":1091.8,"text":"你已經驗到有這個東西"},{"start":1091.8,"end":1093.8,"text":"你不往上通報"},{"start":1093.8,"end":1095.8,"text":"可是今天這個材料"},{"start":1095.8,"end":1097.8,"text":"當然台糖的錯"},{"start":1097.8,"end":1099.8,"text":"台糖的錯不是很大"},{"start":1099.8,"end":1101.8,"text":"沒有錯"},{"start":1101.8,"end":1103.8,"text":"最苦惡的手還是這個中聯"},{"start":1103.8,"end":1105.8,"text":"台糖應該要"},{"start":1105.8,"end":1107.8,"text":"辦起一個"},{"start":1107.8,"end":1109.8,"text":"這個你的這個"},{"start":1109.8,"end":1111.8,"text":"這個業者的一個"},{"start":1111.8,"end":1113.8,"text":"基本的一個態度嘛"},{"start":1115.8,"end":1117.8,"text":"這個材料沒有進入到台糖"},{"start":1117.8,"end":1119.8,"text":"的這個製程裡面之前"},{"start":1119.8,"end":1121.8,"text":"它可以販售到"},{"start":1121.8,"end":1123.8,"text":"比如說工業的添加劑"},{"start":1123.8,"end":1125.8,"text":"包括潤滑油包括肥皂"},{"start":1125.8,"end":1127.8,"text":"所以中聯公司它可以賣去做"},{"start":1127.8,"end":1129.8,"text":"最後我再問你啊 但是回到"},{"start":1129.8,"end":1131.8,"text":"食品安全的部分 台糖公司"},{"start":1131.8,"end":1133.8,"text":"依照依照 你們的標案"},{"start":1133.8,"end":1135.8,"text":"你們的標案今年台糖"},{"start":1135.8,"end":1137.8,"text":"5月13日公告的"},{"start":1137.8,"end":1139.8,"text":"CO115黃豆"},{"start":1139.8,"end":1141.8,"text":"出油採購案嘛"},{"start":1141.8,"end":1143.8,"text":"那5月13日公告當時"},{"start":1143.8,"end":1145.8,"text":"台糖確實還沒有拿到那超標的"},{"start":1145.8,"end":1147.8,"text":"7倍報告 但是"},{"start":1147.8,"end":1149.8,"text":"台糖在5月15日已經收到"},{"start":1149.8,"end":1151.8,"text":"檢驗結果 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