{"error":false,"id":["170870"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170870,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170870","日期":"2026-08-10","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-19-25","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":25,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-10T09:22:02+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-10T09:38:47+08:00","影片長度":"00:16:45","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/11f3ac9a4aee4d25ede88004fae5ca6340bd953ec8f8f090192c65f10303680ff3b9796bc518a7b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪毓祥","委員發言時間":"09:22:02 - 09:38:47","會議時間":"2026-08-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣糖業股份有限公司董事長、法務部首長、衛生福利部首長及審計部首長就「台灣糖業股份有限公司經營治理及風險控管之檢討—中聯油脂事件、台糖售地案等重大債權追償暨審計部114年度決算審核意見改善情形」進行報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.06471875,"end":1.12784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":10.67909375,"end":12.484718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":12.653468750000002,"end":14.796593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":15.285968750000002,"end":16.872218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":17.766593750000002,"end":18.559718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26.676593750000002,"end":26.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":26.69346875,"end":28.21221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":28.70159375,"end":36.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":36.244718750000004,"end":43.602218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":43.939718750000004,"end":46.454093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":46.92659375,"end":47.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":48.41159375,"end":49.55909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":49.98096875,"end":54.09846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":54.284093750000004,"end":55.752218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":56.22471875,"end":57.726593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":57.77721875,"end":60.477218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":60.64596875,"end":61.69221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":61.72596875000001,"end":62.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":62.97471875,"end":71.31096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":71.88471875,"end":73.06596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":73.13346875,"end":77.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":77.97659375,"end":83.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":83.93346875,"end":92.13471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":92.94471875,"end":98.95221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":99.30659375,"end":104.84159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":104.90909375000001,"end":129.61409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":129.90096875,"end":138.27096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":138.60846875000001,"end":141.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":141.51096875000002,"end":142.32096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":143.14784375000002,"end":143.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":144.24471875,"end":148.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":148.71659375000002,"end":158.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":158.92596875,"end":165.87846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":166.26659375,"end":171.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":172.25721875000002,"end":177.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":177.57284375,"end":179.85096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":179.93534375000002,"end":183.37784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":183.69846875000002,"end":187.52909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":188.45721875,"end":189.79034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":190.51596875,"end":192.86159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":195.76409375,"end":197.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":197.67096875000001,"end":200.91096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":200.96159375000002,"end":202.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":203.00346875000002,"end":203.56034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":204.21846875,"end":208.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":208.23471875,"end":208.99409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":209.02784375000002,"end":209.04471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":209.07846875,"end":212.38596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":212.60534375,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":214.63034375,"end":217.93784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":218.19096875000002,"end":224.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.19846875000002,"end":224.21534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":224.23221875000002,"end":224.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":224.77221875,"end":225.24471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":225.70034375,"end":228.70409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":228.92346875,"end":229.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":230.32409375,"end":233.46284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":233.96909375,"end":236.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":234.17159375000003,"end":245.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":246.32159375,"end":247.67159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":248.71784375000001,"end":252.64971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":253.18971875000003,"end":256.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":253.24034375000002,"end":253.88159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":256.61534375,"end":256.63221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":256.63221875,"end":257.15534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":256.91909375,"end":263.09534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":258.99471875,"end":260.41221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":263.19659375000003,"end":264.49596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":265.22159375,"end":267.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":267.76971875000004,"end":270.36846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.52034375,"end":270.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":270.95909375,"end":276.94971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":275.46471875000003,"end":282.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":282.83909375,"end":286.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":286.38284375,"end":289.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":289.50471875,"end":290.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.20909375,"end":292.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.28471875,"end":296.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":296.20409375,"end":300.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.23721875,"end":309.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":309.97409375,"end":310.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":310.02471875000003,"end":310.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":310.96971875,"end":311.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":311.03721875,"end":313.26471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.82159375000003,"end":325.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":325.97159375,"end":326.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.03909375,"end":326.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":326.05596875000003,"end":327.54096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":326.96721875000003,"end":330.78096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":331.05096875000004,"end":331.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.16471875,"end":336.41721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":336.41721875,"end":336.43409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":336.78846875000005,"end":337.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":337.19346875,"end":339.77534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":341.59784375000004,"end":348.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":348.60096875000005,"end":350.42346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.82846875,"end":361.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":354.59159375,"end":356.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.32471875000005,"end":366.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":366.84284375000004,"end":369.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":368.26034375,"end":372.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":371.77034375000005,"end":386.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":383.80221875,"end":383.81909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":385.16909375,"end":388.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":388.03784375000004,"end":394.23096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":389.25284375,"end":389.91096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":393.91034375000004,"end":404.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.81159375000004,"end":405.19971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":405.70596875,"end":408.28784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":409.14846875,"end":411.30846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":411.89909375,"end":414.22784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":414.75096875,"end":418.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":419.23971875,"end":424.36971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":424.65659375,"end":425.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":425.53409375,"end":434.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":428.95971875000004,"end":431.30534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.59159375,"end":437.44784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":437.93721875000006,"end":439.62471875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":439.79346875000005,"end":440.53596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.85659375,"end":451.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":446.44221875000005,"end":447.37034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":451.99409375000005,"end":453.96846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":454.27221875000004,"end":471.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":458.42346875000004,"end":459.53721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":460.16159375,"end":463.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":471.21471875000003,"end":473.20596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":472.36221875,"end":473.93159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.89784375000005,"end":473.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.93159375000005,"end":477.47534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":475.34909375,"end":478.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":477.69471875000005,"end":482.80784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.17909375000005,"end":483.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":484.68096875000003,"end":490.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":491.17784375,"end":493.08471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":493.52346875,"end":500.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":501.57284375000006,"end":506.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":506.88846875,"end":509.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":509.41971875,"end":511.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":511.95096875,"end":512.6428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":513.5203437499999,"end":518.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":519.2578437500001,"end":524.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":525.5859687500001,"end":530.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":530.32784375,"end":532.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":533.0278437500001,"end":534.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":535.10346875,"end":538.6472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":539.4740937500001,"end":540.40221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.5078437500001,"end":542.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":543.6084687499999,"end":545.8022187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":547.74284375,"end":550.69596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":551.0165937500001,"end":553.1428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":556.2478437500001,"end":558.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":561.12471875,"end":561.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":562.1709687499999,"end":563.08221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.0990937500001,"end":563.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":563.16659375,"end":563.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":563.58846875,"end":564.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":564.19596875,"end":573.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":574.42221875,"end":575.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":575.89034375,"end":577.6284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":578.0165937500001,"end":579.36659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":580.4297187500001,"end":583.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":584.2097187500001,"end":588.8672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":589.6940937500001,"end":601.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":601.3547187500001,"end":602.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.0209687500001,"end":607.4297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.08784375,"end":612.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":608.7122187500001,"end":609.06659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.7959687499999,"end":615.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":616.05284375,"end":619.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":619.5290937500001,"end":621.4697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.0265937500001,"end":622.8703437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":622.8703437500001,"end":628.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.8647187500001,"end":631.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":631.96596875,"end":631.99971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":633.0122187500001,"end":643.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":643.9809687500001,"end":646.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":646.6640937500001,"end":649.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":650.27534375,"end":654.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":657.6159687500001,"end":662.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":665.27721875,"end":669.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":669.49596875,"end":671.31846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":672.2803437500002,"end":674.4909687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":675.45284375,"end":691.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":690.6740937500001,"end":692.8172187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":692.96909375,"end":695.50034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":695.50034375,"end":697.2722187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":697.2890937500001,"end":697.3059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":697.32284375,"end":709.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":707.92034375,"end":708.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":709.70909375,"end":711.85221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":712.52721875,"end":719.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":719.44596875,"end":727.0903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":728.60909375,"end":730.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":734.8190937500001,"end":736.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":737.85659375,"end":746.5134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":746.58096875,"end":751.0190937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":751.52534375,"end":754.8328437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":756.9084687500001,"end":760.4184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":761.1609687499999,"end":764.4853437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":763.72596875,"end":765.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":765.12659375,"end":765.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":765.31221875,"end":767.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":769.1428437500001,"end":769.8515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":769.9697187500001,"end":774.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":774.8972187500001,"end":777.5803437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":778.20471875,"end":778.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":780.07784375,"end":785.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":785.68034375,"end":785.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":785.7647187500002,"end":789.57846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":790.1184687500001,"end":792.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":796.93596875,"end":803.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":804.8503437500001,"end":805.49159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":805.64346875,"end":808.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":809.30534375,"end":814.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":814.38471875,"end":822.3328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":822.61971875,"end":823.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":823.9865937500001,"end":828.99846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":829.2178437500002,"end":829.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":830.8884687500001,"end":836.6765937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":837.3347187500001,"end":845.2490937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":845.5022187500001,"end":846.26159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":846.3797187500002,"end":849.1640937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":849.40034375,"end":853.2478437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":854.6315937500001,"end":855.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":856.0490937500001,"end":863.2378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":862.4953437500001,"end":866.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":865.8703437500001,"end":870.20721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":870.2747187500001,"end":874.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":874.2234687500002,"end":874.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":874.3584687500002,"end":888.6515937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":889.2422187500001,"end":895.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":896.04284375,"end":897.8147187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":898.42221875,"end":915.1284687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":916.0734687500001,"end":919.5834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":921.0009687500001,"end":928.24034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":929.2865937500001,"end":935.6315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":938.09534375,"end":938.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":939.0403437500001,"end":940.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":940.8797187500002,"end":940.9809687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":941.8584687500002,"end":950.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":950.4140937500001,"end":950.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":951.07221875,"end":954.31221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":954.70034375,"end":974.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":975.06846875,"end":976.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":977.04284375,"end":994.2553437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":995.06534375,"end":1003.3172187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1002.25409375,"end":1003.8740937500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":1.3,"text":"趙委請做發言"},{"start":10.64,"end":12.64,"text":"好 謝謝主席"},{"start":12.64,"end":17.04,"text":"我們有請台銅跟經濟部"},{"start":17.740000000000002,"end":18.740000000000002,"text":"我們請兩位"},{"start":26.64,"end":27.14,"text":"好"},{"start":27.14,"end":27.900000000000002,"text":"趙委早安"},{"start":27.900000000000002,"end":28.400000000000002,"text":"早"},{"start":28.4,"end":30.2,"text":"我想今天的話呢"},{"start":30.2,"end":31.4,"text":"我們安排這一個"},{"start":31.4,"end":34.1,"text":"其實中聯的油紙的事件"},{"start":34.1,"end":36.1,"text":"只是一個單一事件"},{"start":36.1,"end":37.9,"text":"那基本上我看的是"},{"start":37.9,"end":39.8,"text":"從審計部的一個報告"},{"start":39.8,"end":41,"text":"債權的不良"},{"start":41,"end":43.7,"text":"還有公司的經營的商業的模式"},{"start":43.7,"end":46.7,"text":"我覺得是台銅公司的整個"},{"start":46.7,"end":49.9,"text":"公司的治理跟他的內控"},{"start":49.9,"end":51.599999999999994,"text":"其實出現了一個問題"},{"start":51.599999999999994,"end":54.2,"text":"造成這個系統性的一個崩壞"},{"start":54.2,"end":56,"text":"所以基本上的話"},{"start":56,"end":57.7,"text":"我把它拱結幾個"},{"start":57.800000000000004,"end":58.7,"text":"第一個就是"},{"start":58.7,"end":60.6,"text":"我們看到食安的風險"},{"start":60.6,"end":62.900000000000006,"text":"他到底台銅有沒有一個"},{"start":62.900000000000006,"end":64.2,"text":"有沒有一個肩膀"},{"start":64.2,"end":65.8,"text":"可以是往上承報的"},{"start":65.8,"end":67,"text":"國家的債權是不是"},{"start":67,"end":69,"text":"可以積極的追得回來"},{"start":69,"end":71.8,"text":"另外這個土地的造零"},{"start":71.8,"end":73.2,"text":"他根本就是一個"},{"start":73.2,"end":74.5,"text":"年年申報合格"},{"start":74.5,"end":75.9,"text":"但審計部一查"},{"start":75.9,"end":78,"text":"就是有很大的一個問題"},{"start":78,"end":80,"text":"所以我想把這幾件事情"},{"start":80,"end":81.7,"text":"綜合看成是一個公司的"},{"start":81.7,"end":83.9,"text":"治理的一個問題"},{"start":83.9,"end":86.5,"text":"那從中聯的這個油紙"},{"start":86.5,"end":88.3,"text":"我想在你們的報告裡頭"},{"start":88.3,"end":89.9,"text":"講的都很清楚"},{"start":89.9,"end":92.1,"text":"但我覺得也避重就輕"},{"start":92.9,"end":95.4,"text":"因為按照台銅的說法"},{"start":95.4,"end":99.3,"text":"5月11號在中聯的311潮採樣"},{"start":99.3,"end":101,"text":"那這個採樣的話"},{"start":101,"end":102.3,"text":"基本上就是不符合"},{"start":102.3,"end":105.1,"text":"也就是超標7倍的那個油潮"},{"start":105.1,"end":108.8,"text":"那之後你們改採的是301對不對"},{"start":108.8,"end":110,"text":"也沒有問題"},{"start":110,"end":111.9,"text":"然後進口到你台銅"},{"start":111.9,"end":114.9,"text":"再做成這個實用的一個油紙"},{"start":114.9,"end":116.2,"text":"但是在你們的報告"},{"start":116.2,"end":117.5,"text":"就避重就輕"},{"start":117.5,"end":119.5,"text":"也就是我看不到311潮"},{"start":119.5,"end":121.60000000000001,"text":"我只看到301的油潮"},{"start":121.60000000000001,"end":122.5,"text":"那個是合格"},{"start":122.5,"end":125.5,"text":"那是你後來台銅公司再買的"},{"start":125.5,"end":127.5,"text":"那我的問題就是說"},{"start":127.5,"end":131.2,"text":"基本上這個在5月15號"},{"start":131.2,"end":133.1,"text":"5月11號你們的採樣"},{"start":133.1,"end":135.5,"text":"15號拿到這樣子的報告之後"},{"start":135.5,"end":137.4,"text":"當然你們現在的說法"},{"start":137.4,"end":138.6,"text":"當然就是跟"},{"start":138.6,"end":141.5,"text":"剛剛衛福部江市長的說法一樣"},{"start":141.5,"end":144.2,"text":"這個東西就不列入"},{"start":144.2,"end":146.2,"text":"因為你規定的產品通報不同"},{"start":146.2,"end":148.6,"text":"跟食安法第七條第五項"},{"start":148.6,"end":150.89999999999998,"text":"但我覺得這個蠻嚴重的"},{"start":150.89999999999998,"end":153.7,"text":"因為第一個你311號的油潮"},{"start":153.7,"end":155.5,"text":"到底會不會流到其他的油潮"},{"start":155.5,"end":157.2,"text":"因為油潮 tank是pipe"},{"start":157.2,"end":158.79999999999998,"text":"管線是相通的"},{"start":158.79999999999998,"end":160.2,"text":"所以這一塊的話"},{"start":160.2,"end":162.1,"text":"我想要請教一下的"},{"start":162.1,"end":166.2,"text":"就是台銅在你們的ESG的資料寫的"},{"start":166.2,"end":168.7,"text":"身為國營事業提供產品服務"},{"start":168.7,"end":172.2,"text":"你因為國內食品產業之典範"},{"start":172.2,"end":174.2,"text":"尤其在食品安全方面"},{"start":174.2,"end":177.2,"text":"更要發揮領頭羊的角色"},{"start":177.2,"end":179.7,"text":"所以明知你有問題"},{"start":179.7,"end":181.2,"text":"那沒有通報"},{"start":181.2,"end":183.2,"text":"甚至法律上沒有你就不通報"},{"start":183.2,"end":185.2,"text":"這我覺得違反你們公司"},{"start":185.2,"end":188.2,"text":"ESG的宣稱的寫法"},{"start":188.2,"end":190.2,"text":"你也無論被投羊耶"},{"start":190.2,"end":193.2,"text":"我想請教部長跟台銅的回應"},{"start":195.2,"end":197.2,"text":"我先來說明就是說"},{"start":197.2,"end":200.2,"text":"311的油潮檢驗它不合格"},{"start":200.2,"end":202.2,"text":"所以台灣公司拒收"},{"start":204.2,"end":206.7,"text":"那後續怎麼樣處理這個311油潮"},{"start":206.7,"end":208.2,"text":"事實上台灣公司並"},{"start":208.2,"end":209.2,"text":"它沒有"},{"start":209.2,"end":210.2,"text":"因為那個是"},{"start":210.2,"end":212.7,"text":"權利人是屬於中原公司的"},{"start":212.7,"end":214.7,"text":"所以它也沒有辦法去"},{"start":214.7,"end":216.2,"text":"說你到底要怎麼處理"},{"start":216.2,"end":218.2,"text":"但是事實上現在"},{"start":218.2,"end":220.2,"text":"據我了解311的油潮的油"},{"start":220.2,"end":222.2,"text":"事實上還在中原的油庫裡面"},{"start":222.2,"end":224.2,"text":"事實上是沒有賣出去的"},{"start":225.7,"end":227.2,"text":"所以台灣公司基本上"},{"start":227.2,"end":229.2,"text":"它也沒有那個權利說"},{"start":230.2,"end":232.2,"text":"這批油到底要怎麼處理"},{"start":232.2,"end":234.2,"text":"它是不是有賣出來了"},{"start":234.2,"end":236.2,"text":"它基本上它只吃一個"},{"start":236.2,"end":237.2,"text":"那我的問題就是說"},{"start":237.2,"end":238.2,"text":"台銅這個檢驗"},{"start":238.2,"end":240.2,"text":"你這個5月11號的"},{"start":240.2,"end":241.2,"text":"異常的通報"},{"start":241.2,"end":242.2,"text":"也就是5月15號"},{"start":242.2,"end":243.2,"text":"你看到報告的時候"},{"start":243.2,"end":246.2,"text":"經濟部什麼時候知道這件事情"},{"start":246.2,"end":248.2,"text":"第一次知道這件事"},{"start":249.2,"end":253.2,"text":"事實上我們是7月28號才去這個"},{"start":253.2,"end":256.2,"text":"台灣公司是地查核"},{"start":257.2,"end":259.2,"text":"所以是到7月28號"},{"start":259.2,"end":261.2,"text":"經濟部才去看"},{"start":261.2,"end":263.2,"text":"然後才知道有這件事情"},{"start":263.2,"end":265.2,"text":"對 因為基本上來講"},{"start":265.2,"end":267.2,"text":"台灣公司報給我們都是合規"},{"start":267.2,"end":270.2,"text":"都是合標"},{"start":270.2,"end":272.2,"text":"32次的檢驗基本上"},{"start":272.2,"end":274.2,"text":"包括中央政府 地方政府"},{"start":274.2,"end":275.2,"text":"還有他們自主檢驗"},{"start":275.2,"end":276.2,"text":"但是你去查的時候"},{"start":276.2,"end":279.2,"text":"是311朝的那個通報不合"},{"start":279.2,"end":280.2,"text":"就是那個檢驗不合格"},{"start":280.2,"end":282.2,"text":"你到7月28號才知道"},{"start":282.2,"end":285.2,"text":"它告訴我們實地的說明以後"},{"start":285.2,"end":286.2,"text":"我們才知道"},{"start":286.2,"end":289.2,"text":"好 那台航有沒有去跟衛福部說"},{"start":289.2,"end":291.2,"text":"有沒有去通報衛福部"},{"start":291.2,"end":293.2,"text":"是 跟委員報告"},{"start":293.2,"end":296.2,"text":"其實台灣公司是用最嚴格的方式"},{"start":296.2,"end":297.2,"text":"那你現在回答我"},{"start":297.2,"end":298.2,"text":"有沒有跟衛福部報告"},{"start":298.2,"end":300.2,"text":"不管公文或什麼東西"},{"start":300.2,"end":302.2,"text":"這個我們不會去報告"},{"start":302.2,"end":305.2,"text":"因為這個是我們採購驗收"},{"start":305.2,"end":307.2,"text":"等於說沒有通過驗收"},{"start":307.2,"end":308.2,"text":"它沒有合格"},{"start":308.2,"end":310.2,"text":"沒有合乎我們的採購規則"},{"start":310.2,"end":311.2,"text":"這樣子你覺得符合你們"},{"start":311.2,"end":313.2,"text":"食品領頭羊的角色"},{"start":313.2,"end":317.2,"text":"就現在目前的食安法規定"},{"start":317.2,"end":318.2,"text":"國營試驗"},{"start":318.2,"end":319.2,"text":"國營試驗"},{"start":319.2,"end":320.2,"text":"是 沒有錯"},{"start":320.2,"end":323.2,"text":"那一線線型的食安法的規定"},{"start":323.2,"end":326.2,"text":"所以食安法的規定是你的上限"},{"start":326.2,"end":327.2,"text":"不是你的底線"},{"start":327.2,"end":329.2,"text":"不是 原料它沒有規範"},{"start":329.2,"end":332.2,"text":"本篇批的安全標準"},{"start":332.2,"end":334.2,"text":"所以它沒有所謂超標的問題"},{"start":334.2,"end":336.2,"text":"也沒有所謂的超標七倍的問題"},{"start":336.2,"end":340.2,"text":"好 我想提一下這個食藥署署長"},{"start":341.2,"end":344.2,"text":"我想就這個問題請教一下"},{"start":344.2,"end":345.2,"text":"因為說實在的"},{"start":345.2,"end":347.2,"text":"如果按照台糖的說法"},{"start":347.2,"end":348.2,"text":"你是不知道嘛"},{"start":348.2,"end":350.2,"text":"那你什麼時候才知道這件事"},{"start":350.2,"end":353.2,"text":"因為針對中聯這個事件"},{"start":353.2,"end":357.2,"text":"我們7月1號就把這個關起來"},{"start":357.2,"end":359.2,"text":"之後我們就陸陸續續進場"},{"start":359.2,"end":361.2,"text":"去做所謂調查"},{"start":361.2,"end":363.2,"text":"確確知道調查的時間"},{"start":363.2,"end":364.2,"text":"是在7月中的時候"},{"start":364.2,"end":366.2,"text":"我們看到一筆數字"},{"start":366.2,"end":368.2,"text":"這個數字裡面是台糖"},{"start":368.2,"end":370.2,"text":"所以你比經濟部7月28號再早一點"},{"start":370.2,"end":371.2,"text":"知道台糖真的是"},{"start":371.2,"end":374.2,"text":"我想這件事情時間點上面"},{"start":374.2,"end":376.2,"text":"我們的時間點是這樣知道"},{"start":376.2,"end":378.2,"text":"那經濟部知道的時間"},{"start":378.2,"end":379.2,"text":"我想就是可能"},{"start":379.2,"end":384.2,"text":"因為台糖是在地方的直轄市"},{"start":384.2,"end":386.2,"text":"可能會跟直轄市說明"},{"start":386.2,"end":387.2,"text":"所以直轄市台南市政府"},{"start":387.2,"end":388.2,"text":"應該通報給你"},{"start":388.2,"end":389.2,"text":"應該是高雄"},{"start":389.2,"end":392.2,"text":"我們是7月中的時候知道這件事情"},{"start":392.2,"end":394.2,"text":"確確的時間是在這個時間"},{"start":394.2,"end":397.2,"text":"我想要問一下台糖還有食藥署"},{"start":397.2,"end":398.2,"text":"我們都有食安雲"},{"start":398.2,"end":401.2,"text":"所以台糖的每一項食品的檢驗"},{"start":401.2,"end":402.2,"text":"都有像食安雲"},{"start":402.2,"end":404.2,"text":"衛福部是不是可以追溯得到"},{"start":405.2,"end":408.2,"text":"報委員這是一個很關鍵的"},{"start":408.2,"end":411.2,"text":"它是所謂整個製程中的"},{"start":411.2,"end":414.2,"text":"從黃豆開始到成品"},{"start":414.2,"end":415.2,"text":"其實它要報通報的"},{"start":415.2,"end":418.2,"text":"我們管的是2PPB是成品"},{"start":418.2,"end":420.2,"text":"它不是中間的"},{"start":420.2,"end":421.2,"text":"出膠脫膠原油"},{"start":421.2,"end":424.2,"text":"其實經驗之後除了脫酸脫臭"},{"start":424.2,"end":428.2,"text":"跟我們的脫中和的"},{"start":428.2,"end":431.2,"text":"豬油和原料"},{"start":431.2,"end":432.2,"text":"應該是說這個是"},{"start":432.2,"end":436.2,"text":"製程過程中的一項中間產品"},{"start":436.2,"end":438.2,"text":"這中間產品是不能吃的"},{"start":438.2,"end":442.2,"text":"又臭又酸然後顏色又混濁"},{"start":442.2,"end":445.2,"text":"不會是食品也不是成品要去管的"},{"start":445.2,"end":449.2,"text":"所以我們整個食品安全衛生管理法"},{"start":449.2,"end":451.2,"text":"裡面對於所謂的食品中的汙染物"},{"start":451.2,"end":453.2,"text":"以及它的毒素"},{"start":453.2,"end":456.2,"text":"我們都其實在管理裡面一個"},{"start":456.2,"end":458.2,"text":"複表3有關於BAP的說明"},{"start":458.2,"end":460.2,"text":"很清楚的我們可以知道"},{"start":460.2,"end":461.2,"text":"老百姓沒辦法接受"},{"start":461.2,"end":462.2,"text":"因為你最後"},{"start":462.2,"end":463.2,"text":"原則上是成品"},{"start":463.2,"end":464.2,"text":"它不是成品"},{"start":464.2,"end":465.2,"text":"不是一個食安法管理"},{"start":465.2,"end":466.2,"text":"這是確切的"},{"start":466.2,"end":470.2,"text":"這個其實如果在所有的製程過程中"},{"start":470.2,"end":471.2,"text":"要去驗"},{"start":471.2,"end":473.2,"text":"所以食安法會修"},{"start":473.2,"end":475.2,"text":"它整體的下降"},{"start":475.2,"end":478.2,"text":"食安法修的時候會把這個動作"},{"start":478.2,"end":479.2,"text":"這個部分大家可以討論"},{"start":479.2,"end":480.2,"text":"我們講這部分"},{"start":480.2,"end":482.2,"text":"其實大家共同討論在未來"},{"start":482.2,"end":483.2,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":483.2,"end":484.2,"text":"好"},{"start":484.2,"end":486.2,"text":"部長跟食安署署長請回"},{"start":486.2,"end":488.2,"text":"我想要請教一下台唐"},{"start":488.2,"end":492.2,"text":"在這個債權的這個問題"},{"start":492.2,"end":494.2,"text":"我們看審計部的報告"},{"start":494.2,"end":498.2,"text":"預期加催收欠款總共4億7391"},{"start":498.2,"end":500.2,"text":"催收款是4億7209"},{"start":500.2,"end":503.2,"text":"所以跟2013年第四季比較"},{"start":503.2,"end":506.2,"text":"催收款是從3億8232萬"},{"start":506.2,"end":508.2,"text":"到4億7209萬"},{"start":508.2,"end":512.2,"text":"一年增加8977萬催收款"},{"start":512.2,"end":514.2,"text":"那在這裡頭的話"},{"start":514.2,"end":517.2,"text":"我覺得你這個成長幅度催收款太驚人了"},{"start":517.2,"end":518.2,"text":"我想問一下"},{"start":518.2,"end":521.2,"text":"有關於台唐的蔡副總理"},{"start":521.2,"end":523.2,"text":"知不知道在你這個催收款裡頭"},{"start":523.2,"end":524.2,"text":"4億多"},{"start":524.2,"end":532.2,"text":"其中有無奈人的案子1億1796萬的這一筆"},{"start":532.2,"end":533.2,"text":"是"},{"start":533.2,"end":534.2,"text":"那跟委員報告"},{"start":534.2,"end":536.2,"text":"那我們的催收款裡頭"},{"start":536.2,"end":538.2,"text":"是有包括無奈人的這一項"},{"start":538.2,"end":540.2,"text":"是有包括嗎"},{"start":540.2,"end":541.2,"text":"有"},{"start":541.2,"end":542.2,"text":"那他現在還了多少"},{"start":542.2,"end":549.2,"text":"他已經還了金額3700多萬的樣子"},{"start":549.2,"end":550.2,"text":"我看一下數字"},{"start":550.2,"end":553.2,"text":"你們講公開追回只有700萬"},{"start":553.2,"end":556.2,"text":"我是講他的喔"},{"start":556.2,"end":558.2,"text":"不是其他四位債權人喔"},{"start":558.2,"end":560.2,"text":"750萬"},{"start":560.2,"end":561.2,"text":"750萬嘛對不對"},{"start":561.2,"end":564.2,"text":"你們公開宣稱700多萬"},{"start":564.2,"end":565.2,"text":"700多萬喔"},{"start":565.2,"end":569.2,"text":"所以1億1700多多少的話才700多"},{"start":569.2,"end":571.2,"text":"那我的問題是說"},{"start":571.2,"end":572.2,"text":"你們做得很好啊"},{"start":572.2,"end":574.2,"text":"你們去做的管收嘛"},{"start":574.2,"end":576.2,"text":"那管收之後"},{"start":576.2,"end":580.2,"text":"7月16號第一次協商沒有共識"},{"start":580.2,"end":581.2,"text":"對不對"},{"start":581.2,"end":582.2,"text":"你6月11日裁定管收"},{"start":582.2,"end":585.2,"text":"22號台唐才撤回管收"},{"start":585.2,"end":587.2,"text":"然後7月16號再協商"},{"start":587.2,"end":589.2,"text":"7月20號是你的期限有沒有"},{"start":589.2,"end":590.2,"text":"我想要知道的是"},{"start":590.2,"end":592.2,"text":"台唐撤回管收申請"},{"start":592.2,"end":594.2,"text":"這個決策誰決定的"},{"start":594.2,"end":595.2,"text":"誰授權的"},{"start":595.2,"end":599.2,"text":"法務單位總經理董事長"},{"start":599.2,"end":601.2,"text":"是我們是有委託啦"},{"start":601.2,"end":604.2,"text":"委託律師來到"},{"start":604.2,"end":605.2,"text":"律師是委託"},{"start":605.2,"end":608.2,"text":"但是誰決定要撤回"},{"start":608.2,"end":611.2,"text":"是律師當場做成的決定"},{"start":612.2,"end":615.2,"text":"是律師當場做成的決定"},{"start":615.2,"end":617.2,"text":"律師他決定不用問當事人"},{"start":617.2,"end":619.2,"text":"不用問你們台唐"},{"start":619.2,"end":622.2,"text":"他是硬法官的說明喔"},{"start":622.2,"end":623.2,"text":"你跟法官說明不要"},{"start":623.2,"end":625.2,"text":"法官是說你們台唐主動撤請"},{"start":625.2,"end":628.2,"text":"要主動的一個撤回"},{"start":632.2,"end":633.2,"text":"各位委員報告喔"},{"start":633.2,"end":637.2,"text":"這個案子是我們的律師"},{"start":637.2,"end":639.2,"text":"就是這個代理人"},{"start":639.2,"end":642.2,"text":"在現場經法官詢問的時候"},{"start":642.2,"end":643.2,"text":"我們才答應的"},{"start":643.2,"end":645.2,"text":"所以一切都推給律師"},{"start":645.2,"end":646.2,"text":"不對啊"},{"start":646.2,"end":647.2,"text":"我們委託律師"},{"start":647.2,"end":649.2,"text":"律師還是會打電話回來問你啊"},{"start":649.2,"end":651.2,"text":"當時受權的時候"},{"start":651.2,"end":654.2,"text":"是有全權受權給這個代理人"},{"start":657.2,"end":659.2,"text":"這個實在是很扯啊"},{"start":659.2,"end":660.2,"text":"來那我再問你喔"},{"start":660.2,"end":662.2,"text":"你撤回管收你換到了什麼"},{"start":664.2,"end":667.2,"text":"就是你要撤回管收總是有個理由嗎"},{"start":667.2,"end":668.2,"text":"你換到什麼"},{"start":668.2,"end":669.2,"text":"換到他願意還錢"},{"start":669.2,"end":671.2,"text":"換到他願意新的擔保"},{"start":671.2,"end":674.2,"text":"還是新的什麼資產抵押等等"},{"start":675.2,"end":676.2,"text":"是各位委員報告"},{"start":676.2,"end":678.2,"text":"因為管收的目的"},{"start":678.2,"end":681.2,"text":"我們是希望債務人出來清場債務"},{"start":681.2,"end":683.2,"text":"那我們考量多"},{"start":683.2,"end":684.2,"text":"如果一直關在裡頭"},{"start":684.2,"end":685.2,"text":"我們還是拿不到錢"},{"start":685.2,"end":687.2,"text":"如果他不來協商"},{"start":687.2,"end":689.2,"text":"那當場這個債務人的律師"},{"start":689.2,"end":690.2,"text":"委任律師"},{"start":690.2,"end":691.2,"text":"你確定嗎"},{"start":691.2,"end":692.2,"text":"我的看法跟你不一樣"},{"start":692.2,"end":694.2,"text":"我覺得管收久一點"},{"start":694.2,"end":695.2,"text":"他就會主動還了"},{"start":695.2,"end":697.2,"text":"我們當然希望他還"},{"start":697.2,"end":698.2,"text":"你就關久一點"},{"start":698.2,"end":699.2,"text":"幹嘛撤回管收"},{"start":699.2,"end":701.2,"text":"撤回管收你換不到什麼"},{"start":701.2,"end":703.2,"text":"國家上議員的債權"},{"start":703.2,"end":704.2,"text":"然後你只是說"},{"start":704.2,"end":706.2,"text":"我願意坐下來談就可以撤回"},{"start":706.2,"end":707.2,"text":"什麼東西都沒有"},{"start":707.2,"end":709.2,"text":"台糖可以接受"},{"start":709.2,"end":712.2,"text":"這在一般民間公司怎麼會接受"},{"start":712.2,"end":713.2,"text":"是各位委員報告"},{"start":713.2,"end":714.2,"text":"我們當然是"},{"start":714.2,"end":716.2,"text":"如果這個債務人沒有履行債務的話"},{"start":716.2,"end":719.2,"text":"我們當然還會再次申請管收"},{"start":719.2,"end":720.2,"text":"可是你再次申請管數"},{"start":720.2,"end":722.2,"text":"你的理由又要不同了"},{"start":722.2,"end":723.2,"text":"你要有新的管收原因"},{"start":723.2,"end":724.2,"text":"所以你下一次"},{"start":724.2,"end":725.2,"text":"如果再申請管數"},{"start":725.2,"end":727.2,"text":"你新的管收原因是什麼"},{"start":728.2,"end":731.2,"text":"而且在管收是在管收一次違憲"},{"start":734.2,"end":736.2,"text":"你們家的法務是這樣子的"},{"start":737.2,"end":738.2,"text":"報告委員"},{"start":738.2,"end":740.2,"text":"關於管收的次數不分"},{"start":740.2,"end":742.2,"text":"法律上沒有限制他的次數"},{"start":742.2,"end":744.2,"text":"所以如果交付管所有要件"},{"start":744.2,"end":746.2,"text":"還可以繼續申請管收"},{"start":746.2,"end":747.2,"text":"好那我問你好了"},{"start":747.2,"end":748.2,"text":"7月20號的話"},{"start":748.2,"end":750.2,"text":"他現在還是沒有達到共識"},{"start":750.2,"end":752.2,"text":"7月20號是第一次"},{"start":752.2,"end":753.2,"text":"20號說要再給你"},{"start":753.2,"end":754.2,"text":"20號說要再給你"},{"start":754.2,"end":755.2,"text":"現在的進度"},{"start":757.2,"end":759.2,"text":"報告委員那個進度可能"},{"start":759.2,"end":761.2,"text":"事後補給我"},{"start":761.2,"end":762.2,"text":"這時候可以幫你"},{"start":762.2,"end":764.2,"text":"因為現在協商還在持續"},{"start":764.2,"end":765.2,"text":"全國都在看"},{"start":765.2,"end":767.2,"text":"這國家級的債權"},{"start":769.2,"end":772.2,"text":"是因為那個協商還在持續進展中"},{"start":772.2,"end":773.2,"text":"那我們覺得到時候"},{"start":773.2,"end":775.2,"text":"如果說整體告一個段落之後"},{"start":775.2,"end":776.2,"text":"不管結果怎麼樣"},{"start":776.2,"end":778.2,"text":"協商總是有個due date"},{"start":778.2,"end":779.2,"text":"期限"},{"start":780.2,"end":781.2,"text":"因為期限的部分"},{"start":781.2,"end":783.2,"text":"我們要看他的協商的進展狀況"},{"start":783.2,"end":784.2,"text":"來做決定"},{"start":784.2,"end":785.2,"text":"所以還是沒辦法"},{"start":785.2,"end":787.2,"text":"所以我台東製造不來"},{"start":787.2,"end":789.2,"text":"我都缺錢免費就好了"},{"start":790.2,"end":792.2,"text":"以前的George Mary那個製造就免費"},{"start":797.2,"end":798.2,"text":"好這個你事後給我報告"},{"start":798.2,"end":800.2,"text":"我想要知道是你們這個"},{"start":800.2,"end":801.2,"text":"整個後續的進度"},{"start":801.2,"end":802.2,"text":"什麼時候可以催收回來"},{"start":802.2,"end":804.2,"text":"審計部也坐在這邊"},{"start":804.2,"end":805.2,"text":"對不對"},{"start":805.2,"end":807.2,"text":"這也是很大的一個債權的問題"},{"start":807.2,"end":809.2,"text":"最後一個小問題"},{"start":809.2,"end":811.2,"text":"但我覺得這個問題是蠻嚴重的"},{"start":811.2,"end":812.2,"text":"也就是平地照領"},{"start":812.2,"end":814.2,"text":"照領補助的問題"},{"start":814.2,"end":816.2,"text":"在我們審計部的報告裡頭"},{"start":816.2,"end":817.2,"text":"林保署核定的輔助運機"},{"start":817.2,"end":819.2,"text":"在114年度"},{"start":819.2,"end":821.2,"text":"3531.95公頃"},{"start":821.2,"end":823.2,"text":"經費6000萬元"},{"start":823.2,"end":826.2,"text":"結果審計部請林保署用無人機航拍"},{"start":826.2,"end":829.2,"text":"再跟台唐的GIS土地清測比對"},{"start":829.2,"end":831.2,"text":"發現無比土地"},{"start":831.2,"end":833.2,"text":"有的遭佔治土用多時方"},{"start":833.2,"end":836.2,"text":"有的遭遇大量廢棄物占用耕作"},{"start":837.2,"end":839.2,"text":"林務法省長沒有實際照領"},{"start":839.2,"end":842.2,"text":"然後你們台唐121314"},{"start":842.2,"end":845.2,"text":"送給林保署的成果都寫合格"},{"start":845.2,"end":849.2,"text":"持續持續領取照領的補助"},{"start":849.2,"end":851.2,"text":"這是有造假詐欺"},{"start":851.2,"end":853.2,"text":"公務員不時登載的問題"},{"start":853.2,"end":855.2,"text":"再說明一下"},{"start":855.2,"end":857.2,"text":"是那我簡單的說明"},{"start":857.2,"end":859.2,"text":"就是我們平地照領的面積"},{"start":859.2,"end":861.2,"text":"其實講起來是非常大"},{"start":861.2,"end":862.2,"text":"他的面積"},{"start":862.2,"end":864.2,"text":"沒有沒有我現在就針對這無比"},{"start":864.2,"end":866.2,"text":"審計部點出來的這無比"},{"start":866.2,"end":868.2,"text":"這無比裡面"},{"start":868.2,"end":870.2,"text":"他也不是全部的面積"},{"start":870.2,"end":872.2,"text":"都有被請到"},{"start":872.2,"end":874.2,"text":"或者說被這個"},{"start":874.2,"end":877.2,"text":"比這無比土地是耕作地還是農地"},{"start":877.2,"end":878.2,"text":"還是山坡地等等"},{"start":878.2,"end":879.2,"text":"他是農業用地"},{"start":879.2,"end":881.2,"text":"農業用地"},{"start":881.2,"end":884.2,"text":"這個我就想要隱瞞一個問題"},{"start":884.2,"end":886.2,"text":"你們還是要再給我"},{"start":886.2,"end":888.2,"text":"因為這個東西是不實的造假"},{"start":888.2,"end":889.2,"text":"這很嚴重"},{"start":889.2,"end":891.2,"text":"因為審計部都幫你鋼出來"},{"start":891.2,"end":893.2,"text":"所以你們要回去好好徹查一下"},{"start":893.2,"end":895.2,"text":"另外你剛回答很好"},{"start":895.2,"end":897.2,"text":"我也去查就是農地"},{"start":897.2,"end":900.2,"text":"所以之前我在5月6號的話"},{"start":900.2,"end":904.2,"text":"我們在審農法部實行細緻條例的時候"},{"start":904.2,"end":906.2,"text":"這個執政黨的委員說"},{"start":906.2,"end":908.2,"text":"這個農法實施條例"},{"start":908.2,"end":910.2,"text":"地方自治規範有基礎"},{"start":910.2,"end":912.2,"text":"尚無至愛難行之處"},{"start":912.2,"end":913.2,"text":"不用在第十條之一"},{"start":913.2,"end":915.2,"text":"第九條也不支持"},{"start":915.2,"end":918.2,"text":"也就是說農地清到這些"},{"start":918.2,"end":920.2,"text":"廢棄物被人家占用"},{"start":920.2,"end":922.2,"text":"然後現行的農業部說"},{"start":922.2,"end":924.2,"text":"不會 現在的方法就很好"},{"start":924.2,"end":926.2,"text":"可是台唐的一個國營試驗"},{"start":926.2,"end":927.2,"text":"然後土地被人家占用"},{"start":927.2,"end":928.2,"text":"被人家清到"},{"start":928.2,"end":930.2,"text":"你不覺得農法的土地的條例"},{"start":930.2,"end":933.2,"text":"應該使用在加日更高的刑罰跟罰則嗎"},{"start":933.2,"end":935.2,"text":"這對台唐是一個保障吧"},{"start":937.2,"end":938.2,"text":"是吧 是吧"},{"start":938.2,"end":940.2,"text":"應該是吧 是"},{"start":940.2,"end":945.2,"text":"好 我相信今天你們董事長跟總經理"},{"start":945.2,"end":947.2,"text":"就是藉由出國就不在了"},{"start":947.2,"end":949.2,"text":"所以你也算可憐的帶打"},{"start":950.2,"end":954.2,"text":"那後續我希望你們把這些的報告"},{"start":954.2,"end":956.2,"text":"大概都交給我"},{"start":956.2,"end":958.2,"text":"第一個就是債權跟無奈人等等"},{"start":958.2,"end":960.2,"text":"以及你們其他債權不良的"},{"start":960.2,"end":962.2,"text":"催收的一個機制"},{"start":962.2,"end":964.2,"text":"那你後續這個案子會怎麼進行"},{"start":964.2,"end":966.2,"text":"這個書面報告"},{"start":966.2,"end":968.2,"text":"第二個我建議台唐"},{"start":968.2,"end":970.2,"text":"不管你是出遊"},{"start":970.2,"end":973.2,"text":"只要你是用到實用的部分"},{"start":973.2,"end":974.2,"text":"因為你們還有肉鬆"},{"start":974.2,"end":976.2,"text":"對不對 有糖"},{"start":976.2,"end":978.2,"text":"還有肉製品等等一堆"},{"start":978.2,"end":980.2,"text":"所以你們整個東西到底有沒有"},{"start":980.2,"end":983.2,"text":"確實從明日料到這裡頭的審驗"},{"start":983.2,"end":986.2,"text":"然後同時要確實上食安雲的"},{"start":986.2,"end":989.2,"text":"然後同時你要建立跟經濟部"},{"start":989.2,"end":992.2,"text":"跟衛福部的即時的通報系統"},{"start":992.2,"end":995.2,"text":"麻煩這個我不要苛責你"},{"start":995.2,"end":998.2,"text":"兩個月內給我這樣子的一個機制規劃報告"},{"start":998.2,"end":1001.2,"text":"去防堵未來的這一件的事情好不好"},{"start":1001.2,"end":1003.2,"text":"是 謝謝委員 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}