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ker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:09:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:09:26.400000+08:00","text":"就從中聯油脂這個事情來看，部長覺得台糖在經營治理跟風險控管的表現如何？","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:09:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:09:34.818182+08:00","text":"報告委員，剛剛委員提到，公務人員最重要是合法、合規嘛！","quality":0.565},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:09:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:09:36.500000+08:00","text":"合情合理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:09:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:09:37.750000+08:00","text":"合情合理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:09:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:09:39.833333+08:00","text":"我想合法合規這個部分已經……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:09:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:09:40.666667+08:00","text":"最基本的。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:09:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:09:48.800000+08:00","text":"包括食藥署及地方政府都已經說明，而合情、合理的部分就是自我要求很嚴格，所以為什麼它……","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:09:53.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:09:54.818182+08:00","text":"依你看台糖自我要求嚴格嗎？","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:09:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:09:58.900000+08:00","text":"辦理32次檢查，包括自己的12次自主檢查，地方政府10次、中央政府10次。","quality":0.56},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:09:59.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:10:00.700000+08:00","text":"你的說法相對嚴格。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:10:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:10:04.777778+08:00","text":"對，所以他所有的油基本上通通是合規的。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:10:06.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:10:25+08:00","text":"他基本上合法、合規，然後自主檢驗非常嚴格，又合情、合理，讓所有消費者能夠安心嘛，所以覺得這一次針對中聯油脂這個事件，台糖的的經營治理跟風險控管表現得還可以？是的。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:10:26.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:10:31.777778+08:00","text":"請教一下蔡副總，外界質疑你們什麼？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:10:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:10:36.750000+08:00","text":"你們覺得在經營治理跟風險控管的部分貴公司做得怎麼樣？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:10:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:10:43.750000+08:00","text":"台糖公司一直以來都是用最嚴格的標準在訂定我們的標準作業流程。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:10:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:10:50+08:00","text":"所以你們基本上做到合法、合規，也兼顧合情、合理？是。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:10:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:10:53.500000+08:00","text":"問心無愧？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:10:53.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:10:54.500000+08:00","text":"問心無愧。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:10:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:11:00.750000+08:00","text":"第三方是食藥署，食藥署也高頻率的去檢驗，食藥署檢驗了幾次？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:11:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:11:04.428571+08:00","text":"我們超過10次以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:11:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:11:06.750000+08:00","text":"而且在短時間之內？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:11:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:11:14.818182+08:00","text":"對，這一次的事件之後，我們也再一次去確認，不只是在台糖，其他三家也共同確認。","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:11:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:11:16+08:00","text":"檢查結果呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:11:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:11:20.714286+08:00","text":"檢查結果都是合規的，總共有7個檢體。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:11:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:11:26.666667+08:00","text":"合規的意思就是他做到合法、合規、合情、合理，是不是這樣子？是的。","quality":0.654},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:11:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:11:42.750000+08:00","text":"所以不管是台糖、督導台糖的經濟部或第三方的食藥署，都認為在中聯油脂這個事件，台糖的經營跟風險控管沒有問題，報告也寫得很清楚。","quality":0.772},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:11:45.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:12:12.750000+08:00","text":"再看一下我給經濟部的建議，臺北市衛生局對南僑裁罰的理由是什麼？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:12:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:12:22.777778+08:00","text":"臺北市裁罰南僑理由是南僑是買了中聯的油……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:12:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:12:26.600000+08:00","text":"所以跟台糖問題的本質是不一樣的。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:12:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:12:32.250000+08:00","text":"對，一個是要買回來精煉，一個是成品的油要給人家食用，或者要來做加工食品。","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:12:33.769231+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:12:34.846154+08:00","text":"外界把它混起來一起打，對不對？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:12:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:12:40.666667+08:00","text":"這完全是不同的，對於採購油的標的是完全不同的。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:12:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:13:06.750000+08:00","text":"所以經濟部給立法院的報告裡面根本合法、合規、合情、合理，然後把拒收的、異常的批次跟使用問題的油品混為一談，把兩件本質完全不一樣的事情混為一談，造成民眾的錯誤認知，對台糖的商譽有非常大的影響，副總，你覺得有委屈嗎？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:13:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:13:10.500000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:13:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:13:18.818182+08:00","text":"那你被外界這樣混起來一起打，你固然覺得委屈，但是你對商譽的損失要不要求償？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:13:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:13:28.800000+08:00","text":"這個我們事後會跟律師來檢討。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:13:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:13:52+08:00","text":"所以不管是台糖或經濟部，應該把這兩件事情的本質跟大家清楚說明，這是完全不一樣的事情，你把它混起來一起打，混淆民眾，讓民眾產生憂慮跟不安心，這個我覺得是別有動機，動機可議。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:13:53.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:13:58.333333+08:00","text":"部長，你覺得這個部分要不要再做一些說明？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:13:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:14:40.714286+08:00","text":"報告委員，事實上，我們一再說明，這是兩回事，一個是半成品，而且311那一桶的粗油，基本上還在中聯，沒有交易出來，因為台糖跟他講，你這個可能不符合我們的標準，所以他可能也沒有賣，賣出來的是其他不合格的，這個不合格的就是中聯……事實上中聯真的是不良廠商，所以該譴責的是……因為台糖公司不可能查他所有的油，其他的單位應該要比較積極的去檢查其他的油才對，讓他不敢賣出來。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:14:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:14:42.818182+08:00","text":"所以問題在中聯，對不對？對。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:14:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:15:14.750000+08:00","text":"所以台糖會覺得我做得要死，還被人罵得要死，我窮盡所能去維護食安，法律相關的規定我全部遵守，而且要加強去辦理，結果還是被外界混為一談，這個要強力去回應，甚至要訴諸法律，如果對台糖的商譽或實質收益造成很大的影響的話，台糖也要考慮。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:15:19.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:15:20.800000+08:00","text":"粗油有沒有訂標準？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:15:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:15:22.750000+08:00","text":"通報義務怎麼認定？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:15:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:15:24.777778+08:00","text":"我想請問一下姜署長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:15:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:15:33.166667+08:00","text":"這個是在製程中的一項，還沒有決定要給民眾吃的，要經過精煉，所以是沒有定標準的。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:15:33.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:15:34.833333+08:00","text":"定了標準一定是成品，是可吃的。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:15:35.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:15:42.600000+08:00","text":"好，如果按照相關的法律規定，通報的前提是有危害衛生安全之虞。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:15:43.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:15:50.777778+08:00","text":"跟委員說明一下，之前的函釋講的是蘇丹紅，蘇丹紅是不能添加的。是。","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:15:50.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:15:52+08:00","text":"所以它會落到第十五條第一項第三款……","quality":0.188},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:15:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:15:54.750000+08:00","text":"就跟這個事情不一樣嘛！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:15:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:16:00+08:00","text":"這是第七條第五項的，它還沒有進入……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:16:01.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:16:02.200000+08:00","text":"這完全不一樣嘛，對不對？","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:16:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:16:08.777778+08:00","text":"沒有違反第七條第五項所謂危害衛生安全之虞，因為這個根本還沒有交給民眾……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:16:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:16:10.600000+08:00","text":"這兩件事情完全不一樣嘛！","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:16:10.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:16:11.600000+08:00","text":"不一樣的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:16:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:16:22.818182+08:00","text":"所以，我覺得署長要去做一個說明，這兩件事情完全不一樣，中聯油脂跟台糖這個事情，未通報是完全不一樣的性質。","quality":0.809},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:16:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:02.333333+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，我這邊要再次強烈的……我們在署內一個多月來強力譴責中聯，但是我並沒有聽到大家對於中聯一致的譴責，這其實是我們很痛心的一件事情，因為我們所有的員工、同仁們持續努力，為食品安全把關，TFDA的同仁們去找出所有的細節，把它精緻的區分、科學的區分，讓民眾能夠安心安全，在這個過程當中，我們對於中聯及三家公司的譴責，我們不斷的說出來，可是我沒有聽到大家對於中聯的譴責，這是讓我比較痛心的地方。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:04.666667+08:00","text":"我在這邊譴責啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:06.500000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:08.500000+08:00","text":"強力譴責。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:16.333333+08:00","text":"部長，請教一下10月份電價可能會凍漲，對不對？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:17.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:20.750000+08:00","text":"不是你說了算啦，審議委員會決定。是。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:21.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:32.600000+08:00","text":"凍漲的機會滿大的，但這樣凍漲，會對台電的財務造成更大的影響，請問有沒有追加預算來撥補台電虧損的計畫？","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:37.857143+08:00","text":"是，照顧民生、穩定物價是我們……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:38.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:42+08:00","text":"最大的目標。政策。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:44.714286+08:00","text":"那台電也不能倒啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:45.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:54.666667+08:00","text":"是，所以我們的確有跟主計總處在討論這件事情，是不是可以透過什麼樣的形式……","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:17:56.714286+08:00","text":"現在正在進行中？對。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:17:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:18:08+08:00","text":"你要透過追加預算來撥補台電因為凍漲造成的損失，維持民生電價的穩定，讓民眾安心，這是我們最大的共識。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:18:09.117647+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:18:10.882353+08:00","text":"另外一個共識是，也不能讓台電倒。是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2026-08-10T10:18:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:18:18+08:00","text":"也不能讓它財務結構一再惡化，這部分我想還是要主計總處跟行政院多加支持。是。謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T10:18:18.500000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:18:23.071429+08:00","text":"謝謝邱志偉委員，謝謝部長、署長跟台糖。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T10:18:23.371429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:18:26.514286+08:00","text":"接下來請謝衣鳯委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}