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謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:18:30.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:18:44.375000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我想要請龔部長，還有食藥署的姜署長。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T10:18:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:18:47.700000+08:00","text":"請龔部長、食藥署姜署長。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:18:47.700000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:18:50+08:00","text":"謝委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:18:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:18:52+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:18:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:18:55.666667+08:00","text":"我想要先問一下署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:18:55.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:18:56.666667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:18:56.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:00.500000+08:00","text":"姜署長，現在什麼油可以喝？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:05.800000+08:00","text":"你盡力的檢查，現在到底食用油……","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:06.518519+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:17.285714+08:00","text":"食用油從大豆油、酥炸油到橄欖油，一系列的油裡面，我們目前看到大豆油占比60％，我們都已經確定……","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:18.434783+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:18.869565+08:00","text":"哪一個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:18.869565+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:20.391304+08:00","text":"各種油其實是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:20.391304+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:22.782609+08:00","text":"現在所有油都可以喝，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:24+08:00","text":"對，油都是，最近我們……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:24.111111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:24.888889+08:00","text":"可是大家都不敢喝欸！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:25.892857+08:00","text":"你說你檢查了……","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:26.071429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:29.821429+08:00","text":"平常不會特別去喝油啊，這件事情我不是那麼支持。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:34.230769+08:00","text":"我是說煮菜啦，當然不會喝油啦，就是大家都不敢吃啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:19:52.838710+08:00","text":"我想苯駢芘，我們有一個英文叫做……儘量讓它能夠達到比較合理的標準，所以我們訂油的標準時是訂2 ppb，也是全世界最嚴格的，會這麼嚴格，就是希望我們的廠商都能夠達到這樣的效果。","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:19:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:20:02+08:00","text":"目前我們驗起來，幾乎所有的……連這次中聯之後的事件，看起來目前都在合格的範圍內，那是我們持續努力的方向。","quality":0.761},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:20:02.388889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:20:20.761905+08:00","text":"如果現在台糖說下半年停購粗油，他自己自主進口黃豆產生粗油，那我想要問你的是，其他油廠可不可以按照這樣子？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:20:22.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:20:26.760000+08:00","text":"到底有多少油廠需要經過這樣子相關的檢驗？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:20:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:20:42.793103+08:00","text":"我想所有油廠現在出品到市場上都要符合2 ppb這件事情是人盡皆知，他們也不至於……我們也會全力持續檢測跟檢驗，讓它達到標準。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:20:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:20:50.724138+08:00","text":"我想在這個階段裡面，食品安全衛生標準裡面的2 ppb是大家都清楚的，也是我們要去努力的。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:20:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:20:53.142857+08:00","text":"大廠小廠都要嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:20:53.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:20:55.642857+08:00","text":"每一個廠都要嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:20:56.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:20:59.833333+08:00","text":"都是一樣，通通都要，只要是油品都一律要符合這個標準，這是不變的。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:21:00.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:21:05.800000+08:00","text":"所以每個油廠現在都已經有能夠符合檢驗這樣子的實驗室嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:21:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:21:16.625000+08:00","text":"我想實驗室能夠驗出結果是最重要的，所以我們有食藥署認證的實驗室或認可的實驗室都是可以協助的，沒問題。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:21:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:21:18.818182+08:00","text":"有沒有辦法協助地方政府？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:21:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:21:34.842105+08:00","text":"一路以來我們都有協助地方政府，對於所有能夠檢驗認證跟認可的實驗室，能夠把量能……每一批油都希望能夠逐批達到這樣子的檢驗效果，讓民眾能夠安全又能夠安心，是我們能夠做的。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:21:35.323529+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:21:54.709677+08:00","text":"部長，我請教一下，台糖說這一批原料沒有進入最終產品，那未來有沒有可能台糖要建立主動通報主管機關的目標呢？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:21:55.545455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:22:06.772727+08:00","text":"台糖現在……您剛剛提到他下半年要自己進黃豆了，所以就沒有去檢驗其他公司的產品問題了。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:22:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:22:15.714286+08:00","text":"對，可是我現在是說，就食安這個部分未來他有沒有可能主動通報主管機關備查？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:22:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:22:31.636364+08:00","text":"因為他沒有去檢驗別人，也沒有通報的問題，因為如果他自己檢驗出來合格就會用，不合格當然就會拋棄，或是精煉讓它符合標準。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:22:32.272727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:22:43.727273+08:00","text":"他進口的粗豆裡面，現在有問題的是從巴西來的，未來是從哪裡進口呢？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:22:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:22:45.500000+08:00","text":"還在思考。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:22:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:22:49.384615+08:00","text":"他的原料黃豆是從哪裡進口？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:22:51.230769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:22:59.769231+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，一直以來台糖公司所進的黃豆都是跟美國買的，都是美國北美的黃豆。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:23:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:23:07.500000+08:00","text":"可是過去你們沒有把它用來做食用油？有。有嗎？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:23:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:23:23.708333+08:00","text":"有，我們都是自己進黃豆壓榨成粗油，再把這個粗油精煉成末端消費大眾可以使用的大豆沙拉油，我們產能不足的部分才會對外採購粗油。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:23:24.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:23:31.789474+08:00","text":"粗油是中間的產品，如果不夠的話，我們才會對外去採購。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:23:32.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:23:50.800000+08:00","text":"這次我們會對外招標，就是我們的粗油量不夠，我們必須要對外採購，採購發現它不符合我們的招標規範，我們就拒收，等於從頭到尾這個油都沒有進來台糖公司過，我們是拒收。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:23:51.190476+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:24:06.750000+08:00","text":"至於這個粗油到底有沒有食品安全的標準，這個是沒有標準，所以沒有所謂大眾所誤解的超標或者超標7倍，它沒有所謂超標的問題，所以台糖公司也無從去通報。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:24:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:24:21.777778+08:00","text":"不是、不是，我不是在說這個，未來你們販售給社會大眾的油品部分，大家當然希望能夠符合食安的標準。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:24:23.684211+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:24:36.750000+08:00","text":"未來我們也要修訂食安法，食安法對於相關的規定，你們要不要提供主動申報這樣子的標準？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:24:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:24:53+08:00","text":"可能這個必須要有一些科學上面的判定跟依據，來規範我們的粗油是不是要訂定標準，我想這個也是目前所有社會大眾的期待，也是我們政府官員一直在努力的地方。好。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:24:53.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:24:54.750000+08:00","text":"那姜署長要不要？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:24:56.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:11.769231+08:00","text":"粗油如果煉一次煉不成，煉兩次，煉兩次煉不成，煉三次，要煉到2 ppb以下才符合科學基準，可是煉一次煉兩次的成本差很多啊！","quality":0.712},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:25.833333+08:00","text":"但是保障民眾食的安全，小於2 ppb的油品，這是國家政策以及法律的規定，所以剛才提到的，中間要訂多少其實不是重點，是我要出去的時候是要多少。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:27.142857+08:00","text":"如果中間是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:27.142857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:28.142857+08:00","text":"所以你現在中間不會訂定是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:31.789474+08:00","text":"那請問訂出標準之後，14.7 ppb要做什麼用？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:33.750000+08:00","text":"所以目前中間不會訂就對了？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:37.833333+08:00","text":"沒有，我的意思是說還可以討論，但是14.7 ppb訂出來，然後呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:39.714286+08:00","text":"然後就認真煉啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:40.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:42.800000+08:00","text":"煉到精油可以小於2 ppb才是方向。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:42.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:43.800000+08:00","text":"我知道啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:43.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:45.750000+08:00","text":"問題是大家在想說……","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:46.875000+08:00","text":"所以訂這個標準的目的其實跟……","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:25:48.800000+08:00","text":"是不是大小廠都有辦法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:25:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:26:19.647059+08:00","text":"這件事情要去驗中間的原油廠驗出來，我們覺得它是HACCP裡面的一個重要觀測點，決定你後續要怎麼煉，因為一般煉可以降低88％，從脫酸、脫色、脫臭可以到88％，如果加上了我們的活性碳可以更高，所以這個是一個點，讓你知道know-how，接下來要怎麼做下去。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:26:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:26:29.714286+08:00","text":"如果你訂了一個標準，是一個國家要去裁罰的標準，這一批油決定要把它丟掉或者是不能夠成為人類食用的，那個是反科學的。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:26:30.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:26:51.818182+08:00","text":"我們要清楚它是有方法可以煉下來的，所以我們一定要讓各個廠在訂出它的標準作業流程的時候，能夠達到這樣的目的以及達到這樣的結果，就是盡可能把它降到合理的低於2ppb以下，這是我們要努力的方向。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:26:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:27:13.777778+08:00","text":"因為台糖過去在食品的管控上面，一向是受到大家重視以及尊重，當然我們希望台糖的食品安全監測計畫是不是能夠提到最高的等級，這樣子也符合國營事業相關食品能夠受到民眾信賴。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:27:14.272727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:27:16.727273+08:00","text":"這個部分有沒有辦法呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:27:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:27:22.818182+08:00","text":"就油品的部分，本署一定會積極輔導，協助台糖的油提煉能達到這個效果。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:27:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:27:31.600000+08:00","text":"對，我們是希望說，因為它是國營企業，是不是能夠讓它的食品安全監測計畫能夠提到最高等級？","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:27:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:27:47.846154+08:00","text":"我剛剛也報告，台糖公司是用最嚴格的方式訂定我們的標準作業流程，所以我們對於原料的要求，我們自己的採購標準也訂得非常嚴格，我想這個部分是沒有問題的。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:27:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:27:49.777778+08:00","text":"所以沒有問題是不是？是。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2026-08-10T10:27:50.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:28:02.812500+08:00","text":"好，希望未來我們能夠提高台糖的食用油，還有各項食品安全的監測計畫到最高等級，讓民眾都可以安心，好不好？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:28:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:28:04.600000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T10:28:05.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:28:05.800000+08:00","text":"謝謝謝衣鳯委員，謝謝部長、署長。","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T10:28:06.300000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:28:09.728571+08:00","text":"接下來有請陳昭姿委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}