{"error":false,"id":["170875"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170875,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170875","日期":"2026-08-10","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-19-25","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":25,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-10T10:28:14+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-10T10:42:27+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:13","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/11f3ac9a4aee4d25e90b03806554e17940bd953ec8f8f090df1af9cfe84b6b7a47ccdd74f879e5a25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳昭姿","委員發言時間":"10:28:14 - 10:42:27","會議時間":"2026-08-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長率台灣糖業股份有限公司董事長、法務部首長、衛生福利部首長及審計部首長就「台灣糖業股份有限公司經營治理及風險控管之檢討—中聯油脂事件、台糖售地案等重大債權追償暨審計部114年度決算審核意見改善情形」進行報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":5.785343750000001,"end":6.84846875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":7.185968750000001,"end":9.160343750000003,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":9.480968750000002,"end":13.817843750000002,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":14.57721875,"end":17.90159375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":17.90159375,"end":18.54284375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":18.54284375,"end":18.62721875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":18.62721875,"end":52.056593750000005,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":52.275968750000004,"end":54.01409375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":54.18284375,"end":55.29659375000001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":56.12346875,"end":57.726593750000006,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":57.91221875,"end":60.86534375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":61.017218750000005,"end":62.63721875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":63.227843750000005,"end":66.07971875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":66.46784375,"end":68.98221875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":70.18034375,"end":70.21409375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":70.56846875000001,"end":76.64346875000001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":77.14971875,"end":83.96721875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":84.32159375,"end":103.66034375000001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":105.12846875000001,"end":107.74409375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":109.46534375,"end":112.89096875000001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":113.36346875000001,"end":115.30409375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":117.32909375000001,"end":130.77846875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":118.89846875,"end":120.07971875000001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":131.77409375000002,"end":133.15784375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":133.69784375,"end":139.24971875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":139.99221875,"end":147.34971875000002,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":140.83596875,"end":141.29159375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":148.24409375000002,"end":151.48409375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":151.92284375,"end":153.77909375000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":154.11659375000002,"end":157.20471875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":157.27221875,"end":162.58784375000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":162.73971875,"end":166.99221875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":164.37659375,"end":167.88659375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":167.92034375,"end":178.90596875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":179.49659375000002,"end":181.35284375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":181.89284375000003,"end":190.70159375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":190.73534375,"end":211.98096875000002,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":207.86346875,"end":208.33596875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":211.87971875000002,"end":223.57409375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":222.29159375,"end":230.40846875000003,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":227.43846875000003,"end":228.33284375000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":230.88096875000002,"end":230.93159375000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":231.45471875,"end":235.45409375000003,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":231.48846875,"end":232.66971875000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":234.35721875000002,"end":235.30221875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":235.35284375,"end":238.93034375000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":239.28471875000002,"end":242.81159375000001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":243.04784375000003,"end":253.83096875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":246.55784375000002,"end":250.54034375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":251.92409375000003,"end":278.94096875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":260.98596875000004,"end":261.45846875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":279.31221875,"end":319.12034375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":322.61346875000004,"end":326.62971875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":327.30471875,"end":328.04721875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":327.74346875000003,"end":330.66284375000004,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":331.32096875,"end":341.44596875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":342.44159375000004,"end":344.55096875000004,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":345.52971875000003,"end":345.63096875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":345.63096875,"end":345.69846875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":345.69846875,"end":345.76596875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":345.76596875,"end":345.78284375000004,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":345.78284375000004,"end":345.83346875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":345.83346875,"end":345.96846875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":345.96846875,"end":346.67721875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":347.09909375,"end":354.97971875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":354.67596875000004,"end":363.60284375000003,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":360.54846875000004,"end":360.83534375000005,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":360.83534375000005,"end":360.86909375000005,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":363.87284375,"end":364.56471875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":365.71221875000003,"end":368.27721875000003,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":368.83409375,"end":369.84659375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":370.74096875000004,"end":375.39846875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":376.05659375000005,"end":380.98409375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":381.37221875,"end":383.04284375000003,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":383.75159375000004,"end":385.86096875000004,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":386.40096875,"end":386.83971875000003,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":386.80596875000003,"end":389.08409375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":390.13034375,"end":390.14721875000004,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":390.14721875000004,"end":391.80096875000004,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":390.33284375000005,"end":390.68721875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":391.96971875,"end":393.26909375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":393.69096875,"end":396.50909375000003,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":396.96471875000003,"end":399.56346875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":399.58034375000005,"end":406.26284375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":406.44846875,"end":409.90784375000004,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":410.26221875000005,"end":413.35034375000004,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":413.63721875000005,"end":416.67471875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":413.82284375,"end":415.86471875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":416.77596875,"end":432.68909375000004,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":421.18034375,"end":421.21409375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":421.46721875000003,"end":421.60221875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":432.75659375000004,"end":434.98409375000006,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":436.55346875000004,"end":441.07596875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":441.24471875,"end":447.25221875000005,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":447.82596875,"end":449.02409375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":449.02409375,"end":452.07846875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":452.07846875,"end":452.39909375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":452.39909375,"end":452.43284375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":452.66909375,"end":452.71971875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":452.71971875,"end":452.78721875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":452.78721875,"end":455.92596875000004,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":453.29346875000005,"end":453.74909375000004,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":456.16221875,"end":456.22971875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":456.43221875,"end":462.38909375000003,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":461.52846875,"end":465.71346875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":466.00034375,"end":470.40471875000003,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":470.91096875000005,"end":472.24409375000005,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":472.64909375,"end":473.42534375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":474.13409375000003,"end":475.87221875000006,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":476.73284375000003,"end":480.29346875000005,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":480.61409375000005,"end":488.61284375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":487.44846875,"end":492.35909375000006,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":492.47721875,"end":497.94471875000005,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":498.61971875,"end":505.20096875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":505.58909375,"end":507.93471875000006,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":508.64346875,"end":510.26346875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":511.68096875000003,"end":519.6459687500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":519.29159375,"end":522.0928437499999,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":522.58221875,"end":526.2947187500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":526.75034375,"end":531.82971875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":532.3359687500001,"end":540.2334687499999,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":540.85784375,"end":547.2197187500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":544.2665937500001,"end":559.7409687500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":560.68596875,"end":561.2765937500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":560.92221875,"end":576.29534375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":577.13909375,"end":583.73721875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":584.58096875,"end":594.53721875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":594.6215937500001,"end":601.15221875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":599.65034375,"end":600.05534375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":600.44346875,"end":605.3203437500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":605.77596875,"end":608.18909375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":608.62784375,"end":609.1340937500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":609.5559687500001,"end":611.44596875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":610.6359687500001,"end":611.58096875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":611.58096875,"end":611.6147187500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":611.71596875,"end":614.0447187500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":614.09534375,"end":615.25971875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":616.0190937500001,"end":617.04846875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":617.2509687500001,"end":617.5547187500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":618.2465937500001,"end":619.42784375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":620.0522187500001,"end":622.11096875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":622.6172187500001,"end":622.9040937500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":623.25846875,"end":624.35534375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":624.0009687500001,"end":625.08096875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":625.60409375,"end":627.8147187500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":628.32096875,"end":629.7890937500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":629.87346875,"end":636.7922187500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":636.31971875,"end":637.3997187500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":637.5178437500001,"end":637.83846875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":638.98596875,"end":639.84659375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":640.6228437500001,"end":641.4834687499999,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":641.70284375,"end":642.12471875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":642.78284375,"end":644.65596875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":645.31409375,"end":646.47846875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":648.3347187500001,"end":650.93346875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":651.49034375,"end":652.36784375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":652.4522187499999,"end":652.50284375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":652.50284375,"end":652.75596875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":653.7178437499999,"end":662.2734687500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":663.06659375,"end":663.47159375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":663.62346875,"end":665.2265937500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":664.8047187500001,"end":665.8172187499999,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":665.96909375,"end":667.0490937500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":669.2934687500001,"end":670.06971875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":669.66471875,"end":670.8290937500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":671.5715937500001,"end":671.87534375,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":672.1453437499999,"end":674.74409375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":675.11534375,"end":680.9709687500001,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":680.04284375,"end":682.7765937500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":683.83971875,"end":691.60221875,"speaker_score":0.963},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":690.2859687499999,"end":707.5659687500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":707.93721875,"end":711.85221875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":713.13471875,"end":714.67034375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":713.40471875,"end":715.5815937500001,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":715.2609687500001,"end":725.20034375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":722.07846875,"end":722.1628437500001,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":725.3859687500001,"end":727.84971875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":727.86659375,"end":728.4740937500001,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":728.4740937500001,"end":729.53721875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":729.53721875,"end":729.80721875,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":730.22909375,"end":735.0047187499999,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":734.4309687500001,"end":735.32534375,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":735.1059687500001,"end":736.74284375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":737.5359687499999,"end":749.11221875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":738.0759687500001,"end":741.50159375,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":749.36534375,"end":749.4834687500002,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":749.4834687500002,"end":750.0234687500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":749.63534375,"end":749.7703437499999,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":750.0234687500001,"end":750.5634687500001,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":750.5634687500001,"end":750.63096875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":750.78284375,"end":752.20034375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":752.20034375,"end":757.93784375,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":758.54534375,"end":766.39221875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":766.5947187500001,"end":772.58534375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":769.5478437500001,"end":772.5178437500001,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":772.83846875,"end":777.5972187500001,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":777.49596875,"end":777.52971875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":777.5972187500001,"end":789.03846875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":789.03846875,"end":792.7678437500001,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":793.29096875,"end":794.53971875,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":794.77596875,"end":799.14659375,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":799.14659375,"end":814.77284375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":814.77284375,"end":820.5947187500001,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":819.70034375,"end":828.59346875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":828.7959687500002,"end":833.2678437500001,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":832.08659375,"end":844.57409375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":838.7859687500002,"end":840.4734687500002,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":844.72596875,"end":847.40909375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":848.94471875,"end":850.61534375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳委員昭姿","start":851.9484687500001,"end":852.9778437500001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"姜署長至剛","start":852.9778437500001,"end":853.8215937500001,"speaker_score":0.942}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":7,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":7,"end":9,"text":"有請經濟部公部長"},{"start":9,"end":11,"text":"台唐副總經理"},{"start":11,"end":14,"text":"蔡副總經理還有食藥署江署長"},{"start":14,"end":15,"text":"好"},{"start":15,"end":18,"text":"有請經濟部食藥署跟台唐"},{"start":18,"end":19,"text":"江委員好"},{"start":19,"end":20,"text":"大家好 三位署長好"},{"start":20,"end":23,"text":"我先請教這個江署長"},{"start":23,"end":25,"text":"因為我剛進來的時候"},{"start":25,"end":27,"text":"我聽到您講了一句話"},{"start":27,"end":30,"text":"您說好像食藥署的工作同仁"},{"start":30,"end":31,"text":"都非常的辛苦"},{"start":31,"end":33,"text":"這個我相信也是啦"},{"start":33,"end":34,"text":"遇到這麼大的事情"},{"start":34,"end":37,"text":"可是大家都沒有譴責台中聯"},{"start":37,"end":38,"text":"如果我沒有聽錯的話"},{"start":38,"end":42,"text":"那江署長你有一點失憶"},{"start":42,"end":45,"text":"在案發的時候第一次在委員會質詢"},{"start":45,"end":47,"text":"而且我接著的這個專題報告"},{"start":47,"end":49,"text":"我也繼續在談一樣的問題"},{"start":49,"end":51,"text":"我剛開始就告訴你們"},{"start":51,"end":54,"text":"為什麼因為中聯有很大的問題"},{"start":54,"end":57,"text":"他先出貨再檢驗"},{"start":57,"end":59,"text":"我一直問可以這樣嗎"},{"start":59,"end":61,"text":"有人先賣出去再來檢驗"},{"start":61,"end":63,"text":"但你們沒有人敢回答我"},{"start":63,"end":65,"text":"然後你們大部分"},{"start":65,"end":66,"text":"而且我一直在問"},{"start":66,"end":71,"text":"中聯有同批流樣的產品"},{"start":71,"end":73,"text":"但是一次檢驗1.6"},{"start":73,"end":74,"text":"一次檢驗4點多"},{"start":74,"end":75,"text":"一次檢驗8點多"},{"start":75,"end":77,"text":"發生什麼事"},{"start":77,"end":80,"text":"我當時就鎖定是檢驗當中出了問題"},{"start":80,"end":82,"text":"檢驗分兩個步驟"},{"start":82,"end":84,"text":"一個是取樣"},{"start":84,"end":85,"text":"一個是檢驗"},{"start":85,"end":87,"text":"取樣誰去取樣"},{"start":87,"end":88,"text":"是誰取樣"},{"start":88,"end":89,"text":"取樣有沒有問題"},{"start":89,"end":91,"text":"檢驗有沒有作弊"},{"start":91,"end":92,"text":"是不是一直驗到不合格"},{"start":92,"end":94,"text":"才可把報告交出來"},{"start":94,"end":97,"text":"我一直鎖定這幾個點"},{"start":97,"end":99,"text":"但是部長跟你"},{"start":99,"end":101,"text":"那天我主責就是要問部長"},{"start":101,"end":104,"text":"部長一直把罪推到南僑"},{"start":104,"end":108,"text":"如果不是今天南僑半個吹哨人"},{"start":108,"end":111,"text":"能夠把這個事情揭發出來"},{"start":111,"end":113,"text":"今天大家都不知道"},{"start":113,"end":117,"text":"細看不知道為什麼死的"},{"start":117,"end":119,"text":"署長您是這個學者"},{"start":119,"end":120,"text":"我要跟你講"},{"start":120,"end":122,"text":"流行病學你也知道"},{"start":122,"end":123,"text":"我現在已經不相信"},{"start":123,"end":124,"text":"台灣的流行病學了"},{"start":124,"end":127,"text":"流行病學是告訴我們生活的情態"},{"start":127,"end":128,"text":"我們吃的食物"},{"start":128,"end":129,"text":"我們生活的方式"},{"start":129,"end":131,"text":"怎麼樣決定我們的健康狀態"},{"start":131,"end":133,"text":"但是我們現在都不知道"},{"start":133,"end":135,"text":"空氣污染也許不是你的事"},{"start":135,"end":136,"text":"但是食物裡面"},{"start":136,"end":138,"text":"我們當作它是健康的食物"},{"start":138,"end":140,"text":"結果它是有毒的"},{"start":140,"end":141,"text":"所以署長"},{"start":141,"end":143,"text":"您剛剛在講是不公平的"},{"start":143,"end":144,"text":"我一直在抓中聯"},{"start":144,"end":146,"text":"結果現在中聯的人"},{"start":146,"end":148,"text":"就被收押禁建了"},{"start":148,"end":150,"text":"可見當時我一抓就抓中聯"},{"start":150,"end":152,"text":"因為那是我的專業"},{"start":152,"end":153,"text":"謝謝委員"},{"start":153,"end":154,"text":"委員非常的專業"},{"start":154,"end":155,"text":"對於剛才提到的"},{"start":155,"end":157,"text":"由先賣後驗這件事情"},{"start":157,"end":159,"text":"我想過去我們檢驗的週期"},{"start":159,"end":160,"text":"跟檢驗的頻率"},{"start":160,"end":162,"text":"也是我們這次修法的重點"},{"start":162,"end":164,"text":"在所謂的自主檢驗"},{"start":164,"end":166,"text":"署長請等一下"},{"start":166,"end":167,"text":"署長請等一下"},{"start":167,"end":168,"text":"當時沒有錯"},{"start":168,"end":170,"text":"沒有錯 部長跟你"},{"start":170,"end":172,"text":"然後一直在總質詢的時候"},{"start":172,"end":173,"text":"部長還講一下"},{"start":173,"end":175,"text":"他說你每六個月檢查一次"},{"start":175,"end":177,"text":"我想請教你"},{"start":177,"end":179,"text":"每六個月總有第一次"},{"start":179,"end":181,"text":"有了第一次才有六個月後"},{"start":181,"end":184,"text":"請問第一次發生在什麼時候"},{"start":184,"end":186,"text":"你知道小朋友打B肝疫苗"},{"start":186,"end":187,"text":"出生打一次"},{"start":187,"end":188,"text":"六個月後再打一次"},{"start":188,"end":191,"text":"每六個月這個頻率"},{"start":191,"end":193,"text":"也許可以"},{"start":193,"end":195,"text":"但不知道也許要改變"},{"start":195,"end":196,"text":"但總有第一次"},{"start":196,"end":197,"text":"第一次是什麼時候"},{"start":197,"end":199,"text":"每個第一次是什麼時候"},{"start":199,"end":200,"text":"買進來驗一次"},{"start":200,"end":202,"text":"交出去驗一次"},{"start":202,"end":204,"text":"如果大家都把這個工作做好"},{"start":204,"end":205,"text":"今天會出問題嗎"},{"start":205,"end":207,"text":"銷大道的時候驗一次"},{"start":207,"end":208,"text":"合不合格"},{"start":208,"end":210,"text":"我賣給人家再驗一次"},{"start":210,"end":212,"text":"這個是非常基本的嘗試"},{"start":212,"end":214,"text":"謝謝委員這樣的執政"},{"start":214,"end":216,"text":"也是其實在修法裡面"},{"start":216,"end":217,"text":"大家共同的議題"},{"start":217,"end":220,"text":"如果用我們的批次來檢驗"},{"start":220,"end":221,"text":"這件事情"},{"start":221,"end":222,"text":"其實大家"},{"start":222,"end":223,"text":"不要再講"},{"start":223,"end":224,"text":"你回去告訴不要再講"},{"start":224,"end":226,"text":"我們的頻率原來是六個月"},{"start":226,"end":227,"text":"是一個文法"},{"start":227,"end":228,"text":"你們不好要再做"},{"start":228,"end":230,"text":"總有零次多第一次"},{"start":230,"end":232,"text":"你不是等到都賣光了"},{"start":232,"end":234,"text":"才會六個月才驗"},{"start":234,"end":235,"text":"這不是重點"},{"start":235,"end":237,"text":"跟委員報告是用批次裡面"},{"start":237,"end":239,"text":"我們這次後來看到的"},{"start":239,"end":241,"text":"我們很勇敢的跟委員講"},{"start":241,"end":243,"text":"我們後來看到他驗"},{"start":243,"end":245,"text":"出去後來去驗了30批"},{"start":245,"end":246,"text":"用的是黃金檢體"},{"start":246,"end":247,"text":"也是被我們抓出來"},{"start":247,"end":249,"text":"你今天告訴我什麼叫黃金檢體"},{"start":249,"end":251,"text":"它並不是那麼的守法的"},{"start":251,"end":253,"text":"我一直認定中年"},{"start":253,"end":255,"text":"中年就是用同一批最棒的油品"},{"start":255,"end":257,"text":"就是樣本有問題"},{"start":257,"end":258,"text":"然後拿去檢驗"},{"start":258,"end":259,"text":"每次檢驗都合格"},{"start":259,"end":260,"text":"都棒得不得了"},{"start":260,"end":261,"text":"請回"},{"start":261,"end":262,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":262,"end":264,"text":"我想請問台糖的副總"},{"start":264,"end":267,"text":"無奶人欠台糖1.7億"},{"start":267,"end":268,"text":"那是我們的錢"},{"start":268,"end":269,"text":"那不是你的錢"},{"start":269,"end":272,"text":"那歲人錢被管收12天而已"},{"start":272,"end":274,"text":"我兒子可以免教召的"},{"start":274,"end":276,"text":"他此刻在教召中"},{"start":276,"end":277,"text":"因為他的孩子才一歲多"},{"start":277,"end":279,"text":"他兩次免教召"},{"start":279,"end":281,"text":"無奶人被管收12天而已"},{"start":281,"end":283,"text":"一毛錢都沒有還之前"},{"start":283,"end":287,"text":"台糖竟然就當庭撤回管收"},{"start":287,"end":288,"text":"放他出來逍遙"},{"start":288,"end":291,"text":"他出來有沒有逍遙大家都看到了"},{"start":291,"end":293,"text":"無奶人說絕對會還錢"},{"start":293,"end":294,"text":"他還加了一句"},{"start":294,"end":296,"text":"帕金森市政"},{"start":296,"end":298,"text":"對不起請你們用這個理由的時候"},{"start":298,"end":300,"text":"每個人拿出醫師證明"},{"start":300,"end":302,"text":"帕金森市政不是你說了算"},{"start":302,"end":304,"text":"但是大概出來逍遙大家都看到了"},{"start":304,"end":307,"text":"無奶人說絕對會還錢"},{"start":307,"end":309,"text":"而且說7月20號前"},{"start":309,"end":312,"text":"會協商提出還款計畫"},{"start":312,"end":314,"text":"好我現在要請台糖不要迴避"},{"start":314,"end":316,"text":"清楚的告訴我"},{"start":316,"end":317,"text":"7月16號"},{"start":317,"end":320,"text":"無奶人提出什麼還款計畫"},{"start":322,"end":324,"text":"他提出什麼樣的還款計畫"},{"start":324,"end":327,"text":"多久還一次一次還多少錢"},{"start":327,"end":328,"text":"這不是機密啊"},{"start":328,"end":331,"text":"他欠的是公款啊公款啊"},{"start":331,"end":332,"text":"是各位報告"},{"start":332,"end":334,"text":"因為7月16號協商的時候"},{"start":334,"end":337,"text":"就是對方沒有提出比較明確"},{"start":337,"end":339,"text":"我們台糖公司可以接受的方案"},{"start":339,"end":341,"text":"所以我們還會繼續再協商"},{"start":341,"end":343,"text":"你要繼續協商"},{"start":343,"end":344,"text":"那為什麼放他走呢"},{"start":344,"end":346,"text":"為什麼放他走呢"},{"start":346,"end":349,"text":"當時在管收的時候"},{"start":349,"end":350,"text":"因為我們認為管收的目的"},{"start":350,"end":352,"text":"只是要請他出來還錢"},{"start":352,"end":354,"text":"因為我們歷次好幾次法院"},{"start":354,"end":356,"text":"管收的目的要他還錢"},{"start":356,"end":358,"text":"那請問這個案子已經20年了"},{"start":358,"end":360,"text":"第一個我要跟你計較時間"},{"start":360,"end":362,"text":"你是讓他有多少時間"},{"start":362,"end":363,"text":"把台糖都拖光光了"},{"start":363,"end":366,"text":"第二個目的要還錢"},{"start":366,"end":368,"text":"那你怎麼知道他要還錢"},{"start":368,"end":370,"text":"你怎麼放他走"},{"start":370,"end":372,"text":"你們的台糖訴訟團隊"},{"start":372,"end":374,"text":"認為無奶人提出的金額"},{"start":374,"end":377,"text":"這報紙寫的實在太少了"},{"start":377,"end":378,"text":"看不到任何誠意啊"},{"start":378,"end":381,"text":"所以7月16號協商破局"},{"start":381,"end":383,"text":"那你現在怎麼辦"},{"start":383,"end":385,"text":"你的目的是要還錢啊"},{"start":385,"end":386,"text":"現在呢"},{"start":386,"end":387,"text":"現在是放他走"},{"start":387,"end":389,"text":"目的是放他走是不是"},{"start":389,"end":391,"text":"不管任何理由就放他走"},{"start":391,"end":393,"text":"他說有病就有病"},{"start":393,"end":394,"text":"他說他要還錢"},{"start":394,"end":395,"text":"你就相信他"},{"start":395,"end":396,"text":"放他走是不是"},{"start":396,"end":397,"text":"沒有沒有"},{"start":397,"end":398,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":398,"end":401,"text":"這個案子在99年的時候"},{"start":401,"end":402,"text":"我們就已經向無奶人"},{"start":402,"end":405,"text":"就是申請假扣要所有無奶人的"},{"start":405,"end":407,"text":"這個所有的財產了"},{"start":407,"end":411,"text":"那從99年這個假扣要開始"},{"start":411,"end":414,"text":"到109年這個申請定案"},{"start":414,"end":416,"text":"就開始追查了"},{"start":416,"end":418,"text":"你現在在講99年案發的事情"},{"start":418,"end":420,"text":"你現在才在處理"},{"start":420,"end":423,"text":"你一個管兄也找不到人"},{"start":423,"end":424,"text":"大家都找不到人"},{"start":424,"end":425,"text":"只有你找不到人"},{"start":425,"end":426,"text":"我現在問你"},{"start":426,"end":429,"text":"你們1.7億一毛錢都沒有拿回來"},{"start":429,"end":431,"text":"這是我們大家的錢"},{"start":431,"end":432,"text":"2300萬的錢"},{"start":432,"end":435,"text":"有收回3900多萬"},{"start":436,"end":437,"text":"好那你就告訴我"},{"start":437,"end":439,"text":"他的還款計畫是什麼"},{"start":439,"end":441,"text":"總共收回3900多萬嗎"},{"start":441,"end":444,"text":"對到目前為止總共收回3900多萬"},{"start":444,"end":447,"text":"無奶人的部分是收回750萬"},{"start":447,"end":449,"text":"無奶人才交回750萬"},{"start":449,"end":451,"text":"但是你總共要收回1.7億"},{"start":451,"end":453,"text":"對這個案子"},{"start":453,"end":454,"text":"那你秀出來給我們看"},{"start":454,"end":456,"text":"你的還款計畫是什麼"},{"start":456,"end":457,"text":"各位報告"},{"start":457,"end":459,"text":"因為雙方協商還沒有定案"},{"start":459,"end":461,"text":"如果協商定案之後"},{"start":461,"end":463,"text":"我今天有看到許淑華"},{"start":463,"end":465,"text":"這個民女竹鞋的那個還款案"},{"start":465,"end":467,"text":"搞不好你們也是這樣做"},{"start":467,"end":468,"text":"一開始還一點點"},{"start":468,"end":469,"text":"還一點點"},{"start":469,"end":470,"text":"後來還很大"},{"start":470,"end":473,"text":"不是剛剛A錢的時候最有錢嗎"},{"start":473,"end":476,"text":"錢還沒有處理好的時候你們不處理"},{"start":476,"end":478,"text":"然後又只還一點點"},{"start":478,"end":480,"text":"然後打算不還了嗎"},{"start":480,"end":482,"text":"不會這個樣子"},{"start":482,"end":484,"text":"台湯公司處理這個案子"},{"start":484,"end":486,"text":"一定是會窮盡所有的方法"},{"start":486,"end":489,"text":"那無奶人所有的財產我們都已經拿過了"},{"start":489,"end":490,"text":"無奶人擺明了玩弄司法"},{"start":490,"end":492,"text":"玩弄台糖全民當白痴"},{"start":492,"end":494,"text":"你知道網友怎麼說的"},{"start":494,"end":496,"text":"一般的人簽電話費現水電費"},{"start":496,"end":498,"text":"馬上就被停化被停水停電"},{"start":498,"end":499,"text":"一直被吹"},{"start":499,"end":501,"text":"無奶人簽1.7億"},{"start":501,"end":502,"text":"還可以到健身房"},{"start":502,"end":504,"text":"我這輩子都沒上過健身房"},{"start":504,"end":505,"text":"逍遙法外"},{"start":505,"end":508,"text":"吃好的吃好喝好"},{"start":508,"end":511,"text":"那你這債務協商做什麼用"},{"start":511,"end":515,"text":"債務協商當然是要請他提出合理的清場計畫"},{"start":515,"end":518,"text":"如果說無奶人他提出來的計畫"},{"start":518,"end":519,"text":"台糖公司不接受的時候"},{"start":519,"end":522,"text":"副總你知不知道"},{"start":522,"end":526,"text":"連孫道純這個生意人他當時欠了1.2億"},{"start":526,"end":530,"text":"他還沒管收他就錢都還光了"},{"start":530,"end":532,"text":"你應該就這個案子"},{"start":532,"end":535,"text":"我們當然希望無奶人能夠把錢都還了"},{"start":535,"end":537,"text":"那就是因為無奶人他"},{"start":537,"end":540,"text":"你有把柄的時候你有籌碼的時候你去放他走"},{"start":540,"end":542,"text":"不是這個意思"},{"start":542,"end":545,"text":"如果無奶人還是沒有提出合理的方案"},{"start":545,"end":547,"text":"我們還是會收錢管收"},{"start":547,"end":548,"text":"我繼續問副總"},{"start":548,"end":550,"text":"當初說你目的你剛剛也講了一遍"},{"start":550,"end":553,"text":"要收回欠款所以撤回管收"},{"start":553,"end":556,"text":"這個邏輯你去問你兒子跟孫子"},{"start":556,"end":560,"text":"因為我們要他還錢所以我們就撤回讓他回家"},{"start":560,"end":565,"text":"這個他回家還要自己親自到銀行去領錢嗎"},{"start":565,"end":566,"text":"你這個邏輯非常奇怪"},{"start":566,"end":569,"text":"結果到現在證實我們是對的"},{"start":569,"end":571,"text":"你一塊錢都拿不回來"},{"start":571,"end":575,"text":"你為什麼不等他先還錢再放他回家呢"},{"start":575,"end":578,"text":"我到今天沒有辦法理解這件事"},{"start":578,"end":581,"text":"為什麼你目的就說要他還錢"},{"start":581,"end":584,"text":"但是他沒有還一塊錢就讓他回家"},{"start":584,"end":589,"text":"跟委員報告因為當時他的律師是希望遞遍無奶人"},{"start":589,"end":591,"text":"那因為法院禁止"},{"start":591,"end":595,"text":"那律師是希望說能夠跟無奶人來當面講清楚之後"},{"start":595,"end":598,"text":"才能提出比較合理的還款計畫"},{"start":598,"end":601,"text":"所以當時律師是有提出這條條件"},{"start":601,"end":605,"text":"是誰叫你們當庭撤回管收的是誰"},{"start":605,"end":611,"text":"這個是當時我們這個代理人他所做的"},{"start":611,"end":612,"text":"代理人是誰"},{"start":612,"end":615,"text":"代理人是我們公司的湯董事"},{"start":615,"end":617,"text":"湯董事"},{"start":617,"end":618,"text":"對"},{"start":618,"end":622,"text":"湯董事敢要他當庭撤回管收"},{"start":622,"end":624,"text":"湯董事"},{"start":624,"end":625,"text":"你現在有名字了"},{"start":625,"end":628,"text":"叫你撤回管收的是湯董事"},{"start":628,"end":630,"text":"你公開把他名字講出來"},{"start":630,"end":633,"text":"他是公司委託我們的董事"},{"start":633,"end":635,"text":"他具有30多年的律師經驗"},{"start":635,"end":637,"text":"所以他是當庭"},{"start":637,"end":638,"text":"律師經驗"},{"start":638,"end":642,"text":"你委託他代理訴訟嗎"},{"start":642,"end":643,"text":"是"},{"start":643,"end":648,"text":"有律師決定不用跟董事長跟總經理討論嗎"},{"start":648,"end":651,"text":"這部分是當時公司有授權"},{"start":651,"end":653,"text":"授權"},{"start":653,"end":655,"text":"你公然跟全民為敵"},{"start":655,"end":657,"text":"那下一步動作是什麼"},{"start":657,"end":658,"text":"你現在沒有來回錢"},{"start":658,"end":659,"text":"要不要再申請管收"},{"start":659,"end":661,"text":"你再管收總共可以幾次"},{"start":661,"end":663,"text":"副總可以總共可以幾次"},{"start":663,"end":665,"text":"我們他如果沒有提"},{"start":665,"end":666,"text":"你兩倍一次了"},{"start":666,"end":669,"text":"你總共可以幾次"},{"start":669,"end":670,"text":"最多一次"},{"start":670,"end":672,"text":"兩次而已"},{"start":672,"end":674,"text":"你現在要不要再把他管收他"},{"start":674,"end":675,"text":"錢沒有回來"},{"start":675,"end":677,"text":"如果他沒有提出合理的清掌計畫"},{"start":677,"end":679,"text":"我們還是會申請管收"},{"start":679,"end":680,"text":"而且我們內部已經"},{"start":680,"end":681,"text":"他就沒有"},{"start":681,"end":683,"text":"不然你今天就給我們看"},{"start":683,"end":686,"text":"因為7月16號他提出來"},{"start":686,"end":687,"text":"我們不滿意"},{"start":687,"end":689,"text":"所以台湯公司有再特別請他"},{"start":689,"end":691,"text":"要提出合理的清掌計畫"},{"start":691,"end":692,"text":"我給你用常識想一想"},{"start":692,"end":693,"text":"放了20年"},{"start":693,"end":695,"text":"現在要管收策回來"},{"start":695,"end":697,"text":"然後吃這個吃的好穿的好"},{"start":697,"end":699,"text":"在外面過的優惠的生活"},{"start":699,"end":700,"text":"好請同學談"},{"start":700,"end":702,"text":"5月15號你取得報告"},{"start":702,"end":704,"text":"得知這個Bandle Pirate燒標"},{"start":704,"end":706,"text":"你有沒有報告經濟部"},{"start":706,"end":707,"text":"有沒有報告經濟部"},{"start":707,"end":709,"text":"國務部長你有收到這個訊息嗎"},{"start":709,"end":711,"text":"他有報告經濟部嗎"},{"start":712,"end":713,"text":"他不需要"},{"start":713,"end":714,"text":"有報告嗎"},{"start":714,"end":715,"text":"不需要"},{"start":715,"end":716,"text":"等一下公務長"},{"start":716,"end":717,"text":"我跟您討論一個邏輯"},{"start":717,"end":718,"text":"需不需要是一件事"},{"start":718,"end":720,"text":"我現在不問需不需要"},{"start":720,"end":721,"text":"我也不需要你們講的"},{"start":721,"end":723,"text":"這個隨便去解釋的依法通報"},{"start":723,"end":725,"text":"請問他有沒有通知"},{"start":725,"end":726,"text":"沒有"},{"start":726,"end":727,"text":"報告你沒有收到"},{"start":727,"end":728,"text":"對沒有"},{"start":728,"end":729,"text":"你沒有收到"},{"start":729,"end":730,"text":"對"},{"start":730,"end":732,"text":"好所以台湯沒有通告"},{"start":732,"end":734,"text":"通報這個上級長官"},{"start":734,"end":735,"text":"他不需要"},{"start":735,"end":736,"text":"他不需要"},{"start":736,"end":737,"text":"他不需要"},{"start":737,"end":739,"text":"部長我講的是兩件事"},{"start":739,"end":740,"text":"需不需要是一件事"},{"start":740,"end":742,"text":"在專業良知上責任上"},{"start":742,"end":744,"text":"是另外一件事情"},{"start":744,"end":746,"text":"好那請問台湯5月15號發言"},{"start":746,"end":749,"text":"有沒有通報地方衛生主管機關食藥署"},{"start":749,"end":750,"text":"有沒有"},{"start":750,"end":751,"text":"各位報告沒有"},{"start":751,"end":752,"text":"你每一項都沒有就對了"},{"start":752,"end":754,"text":"因為他這個不是通報"},{"start":754,"end":756,"text":"現在的食安法規定"},{"start":756,"end":757,"text":"所要通報的項目"},{"start":757,"end":758,"text":"他不是"},{"start":758,"end":760,"text":"這個食安法很多專家都有見解"},{"start":760,"end":762,"text":"有法學背景都有見解"},{"start":762,"end":764,"text":"那你說都完全都沒有通報"},{"start":764,"end":766,"text":"那就是把人給他殺掉了"},{"start":766,"end":768,"text":"你看到不合格的把人給他殺掉了"},{"start":768,"end":770,"text":"大家各掃門前前"},{"start":770,"end":772,"text":"台湯是國營事業"},{"start":772,"end":774,"text":"我們採購的不是最後的食用油"},{"start":774,"end":776,"text":"我們採購的是出油"},{"start":776,"end":777,"text":"是一個中間的產品"},{"start":777,"end":779,"text":"我要講今天你已經到這個程度了"},{"start":779,"end":781,"text":"全部的人都在講"},{"start":781,"end":782,"text":"我有沒有合法"},{"start":782,"end":784,"text":"我也對外部部長說"},{"start":784,"end":785,"text":"你只要輪落到"},{"start":785,"end":787,"text":"我有沒有違反哪一條法規"},{"start":787,"end":789,"text":"我們不只是要他合法"},{"start":789,"end":791,"text":"我們包括"},{"start":791,"end":794,"text":"我們現在所有的大豆沙拉油"},{"start":794,"end":796,"text":"跟他的相關的產品"},{"start":796,"end":797,"text":"我們驗出來都沒有問題"},{"start":797,"end":799,"text":"我們還是讓他下架"},{"start":799,"end":801,"text":"你現在已經出事了"},{"start":801,"end":803,"text":"你現在就說好"},{"start":803,"end":805,"text":"你當時看到了這麼危險"},{"start":805,"end":807,"text":"而且是最高7點多倍的鈔票"},{"start":807,"end":808,"text":"你什麼都沒做"},{"start":808,"end":809,"text":"也沒有報告經濟部"},{"start":809,"end":811,"text":"也沒有報告食藥署"},{"start":811,"end":813,"text":"也沒有報告地方衛生主管機關"},{"start":813,"end":814,"text":"對嗎"},{"start":814,"end":815,"text":"我這樣講有誤解嗎"},{"start":815,"end":817,"text":"可能有社會大眾有誤解"},{"start":817,"end":819,"text":"沒有所謂的7點多倍"},{"start":819,"end":821,"text":"好那我現在"},{"start":821,"end":822,"text":"因為部長也這樣說"},{"start":822,"end":823,"text":"你們沒有通報義務"},{"start":823,"end":824,"text":"你就大聲說"},{"start":824,"end":825,"text":"就在這裡大聲說"},{"start":825,"end":827,"text":"台糖沒有通報義務"},{"start":827,"end":828,"text":"你就這樣講"},{"start":828,"end":830,"text":"依照現在的食安法"},{"start":830,"end":832,"text":"他不是應該要通報的"},{"start":832,"end":833,"text":"台糖沒有通報義務"},{"start":833,"end":835,"text":"台糖只負責賺錢"},{"start":835,"end":838,"text":"台糖只負責用我們的納稅錢"},{"start":838,"end":840,"text":"所以人家欠了也不要回來"},{"start":840,"end":842,"text":"然後碰到看到人家做壞事"},{"start":842,"end":844,"text":"也都靜靜的不出征"},{"start":844,"end":845,"text":"把人家給撕破了"},{"start":845,"end":847,"text":"不會啦我們不會這樣做"},{"start":847,"end":850,"text":"好請謝謝主席"},{"start":850,"end":852,"text":"謝謝主席"},{"start":852,"end":854,"text":"好謝謝陳昭之委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:28:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:28:27.769231+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請經濟部龔部長、台糖蔡副總經理，還有食藥署姜署長。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T10:28:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:28:31.181818+08:00","text":"好，有請經濟部、食藥署跟台糖。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:28:32.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:28:32.750000+08:00","text":"陳委員好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:28:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:28:33.875000+08:00","text":"大家好，三位首長好。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:28:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:28:46.750000+08:00","text":"我先請教姜署長，因為我剛剛進來的時候，我聽到你講了一句話，你說在食藥署的工作同仁都非常辛苦，我相信也是啦！","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:28:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:28:47.875000+08:00","text":"遇到這麼大的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:28:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:28:55.600000+08:00","text":"可是大家都沒有譴責中聯，如果我沒有聽錯的話，那姜署長你有點失憶喔！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:28:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:29:05.461538+08:00","text":"在案發的時候，第一次在委員會質詢，而且接著的專題報告我也繼續在談一樣的問題，我剛開始就告訴你們什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:29:06.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:29:12.777778+08:00","text":"中聯有很大的問題，他先出貨再檢驗，我一直問可以這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:29:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:29:16.800000+08:00","text":"有人先賣出去再來檢驗，但你們沒有人敢回答我。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:29:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:29:30.600000+08:00","text":"而且我一直在問，中聯有同批留樣的產品，但是一次檢驗1.6，一次檢驗四點多，一次檢驗八點多，發生什麼事？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:29:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:29:33.800000+08:00","text":"我當時就鎖定是檢驗當中出了問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:29:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:29:38.800000+08:00","text":"檢驗分兩個步驟，一個是取樣，一個是檢驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:29:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:29:40.666667+08:00","text":"取樣誰去取樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:29:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:29:41.750000+08:00","text":"是誰取樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:29:42+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:29:42.857143+08:00","text":"取樣有沒有問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:29:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:29:44.714286+08:00","text":"檢驗有沒有作弊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:29:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:29:47.750000+08:00","text":"是不是一直驗，驗到不合格才肯把報告交出來？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:29:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:30:10.600000+08:00","text":"我一直鎖定這幾個點，但是部長跟你……那天我主要就是問部長，部長一直把罪推到南僑，如果今天不是南僑半個吹哨人能夠把這個事情揭發出來，大家都不知道為什麼死的！","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:30:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:30:26.800000+08:00","text":"署長，您是學者，我要跟你講，你也知道我現在已經不相信臺灣的流行病學了，流行病學是告訴我們生活的型態、吃的食物、生活的方式會怎麼樣決定我們的健康狀態，但是我們現在都不知道了。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:30:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:30:33.714286+08:00","text":"空氣污染也許不是你的事，但是我們把它當作健康的，結果它是有毒的。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:30:34.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:30:45.750000+08:00","text":"署長，你剛剛在講的是不公平的，我一直在抓中聯，結果現在中聯的人被羈押禁見了，可見當時我一抓就抓重點，因為那是我的專業！","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:30:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:30:47.857143+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，委員非常專業。","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:30:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:30:57.750000+08:00","text":"對於剛剛提到油先賣後驗這件事情，我想過去我們檢驗的週期跟檢驗的頻率也是這次修法的重點，在所謂的自主檢驗、第一級品管的部分，我們會努力。","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:30:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:30:59.666667+08:00","text":"署長，請等一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:31:02.857143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:31:17.750000+08:00","text":"部長跟你在總質詢的時候，當時部長還講一樣，他說每六個月檢查一次，我想請教你每六個月總有第一次，有了第一次才有六個月後，請問第一次發生在什麼時候？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:31:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:31:30.875000+08:00","text":"你知道小朋友打B肝疫苗是出生打一次，六個月後再打一次，每六個月這個頻率也許可以，也許要改變，但總有第一次，第一次是什麼時候？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:31:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:31:32.800000+08:00","text":"每個人第一次是什麼時候？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:31:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:31:38.857143+08:00","text":"買進來的時候驗一次，交出去時驗一次，如果大家都把這個工作做好，今天會出問題嗎？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:31:39.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:31:45.400000+08:00","text":"收大豆的時候驗一次，看合不合格，我賣給人家的時候再驗一次，這個是非常基本的常識。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:31:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:31:55.750000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員這樣的指正，這其實也是大家在修法時共同的議題，我們如何用批次來檢驗這件事情，大家也是有一些想法。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:31:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:01.714286+08:00","text":"你不要再講我們的頻率原來是六個月一次，是因為法訂定得不好要再修正……","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:01.714286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:02.714286+08:00","text":"對，要修正。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:03.750000+08:00","text":"總有零次或第一次。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:03.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:04.750000+08:00","text":"第二個部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:04.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:08.800000+08:00","text":"不能等它都賣光了，然後六個月才驗，這個是重點！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:10.090909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:20.875000+08:00","text":"用批次，我們很勇敢地跟委員講，我們看到它出去後驗了30批，用的是黃金檢體，也是被我們抓出來的。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:22.846154+08:00","text":"你今天告訴我什麼叫黃金檢體？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:22.846154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:23.846154+08:00","text":"你要不要告訴大家？","quality":0},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:24.800000+08:00","text":"所以它並不是那麼守法的一家公司。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:33.833333+08:00","text":"我一直在盯中聯，中聯都用同一批最棒的油品，就是樣本沒有問題，然後每次拿去檢驗都合格，都棒得不得了。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:35.500000+08:00","text":"署長，請回。謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:36.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:32:52.666667+08:00","text":"請問台糖副總，吳乃仁欠台糖1.7億，那是我們的錢，不是你的錢，是納稅人的錢，才被管收12天而已，我兒子可以免教召，但他此刻在教召中，因為他的孩子才一歲多，他可以兩次免教召。","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:32:53.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:04.785714+08:00","text":"吳乃仁被管收12天而已，之前一毛錢都沒有還，台糖竟然就當庭撤回管收，放他出來逍遙，他出來有沒有逍遙，大家都看到了。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:33:05.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:08.800000+08:00","text":"吳乃仁說絕對會還錢，他還加了一句「帕金森氏症」。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:33:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:10.285714+08:00","text":"對不起！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:33:10.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:17.857143+08:00","text":"請你們要用這個理由的時候，每個人都要拿出醫師證明，帕金森氏症不是你說了算，他出來逍遙，大家都看到了。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:33:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:25.666667+08:00","text":"吳乃仁說絕對會還錢，而且說7月20號前會協商提出還款計畫。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:33:26.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:33.727273+08:00","text":"我現在要請台糖不要迴避，清楚地告訴我，7月16號吳乃仁提出什麼還款計畫？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:33:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:37.818182+08:00","text":"他提出什麼樣的還款計畫？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:33:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:39.090909+08:00","text":"多久還一次？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:33:39.363636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:40.727273+08:00","text":"一次還多少錢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:33:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:44.100000+08:00","text":"這不是機密，他欠的是公款、公帑！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:33:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:54.818182+08:00","text":"因為7月16號協商的時候，對方沒有提出比較明確、台糖公司可以接受的方案，所以我們還會繼續協商。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:33:55.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:33:57.875000+08:00","text":"既然要繼續協商，為什麼放他走呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:34:03.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:34:07.818182+08:00","text":"我們認為當時管收的目的只是要請他出來還錢，因為歷次、好幾次法院傳……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:34:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:34:16.750000+08:00","text":"管收的目的是要他還錢，這個案子已經一、二十年了，第一個、我要跟你計較時間，請問你讓他有多少時間把財產都脫光光？","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:34:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:34:21.800000+08:00","text":"第二個、目的是讓他還錢，你怎麼知道他要還錢？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:34:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:34:23.666667+08:00","text":"你怎麼放他走？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:34:24.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:34:36.714286+08:00","text":"這是報紙寫的，台糖的訴訟團隊認為吳乃仁提出的金額實在太少了，看不到任何誠意，所以7月16號協商破局，你現在怎麼辦？","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:34:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:34:39.666667+08:00","text":"你的目的是要他還錢，現在呢？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:34:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:34:42.777778+08:00","text":"現在的目的是放他走，是不是？不是……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:34:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:34:50.250000+08:00","text":"不管任何理由就放他走，他說有病就有病，他說他要還錢，你就相信他、放他走，是不是？沒有！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:34:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:09.666667+08:00","text":"這個案子在99年我們就已經聲請假扣押吳乃仁所有的財產，從99年假扣押到109年三審定讞之後，就開始追償了。","quality":0.721},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:09.666667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:12+08:00","text":"副總，你不覺得很可笑嗎？","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:18.857143+08:00","text":"你現在才在處理99年案發的事情，管收也找不到人，大家都找得到人，只有你找不到人。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:25.666667+08:00","text":"我現在問你，你們1.7億一毛錢都沒拿回來，這是大家的錢、2,300萬人的錢。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:28.400000+08:00","text":"有收回三千九百多萬了。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:32.777778+08:00","text":"好，你就告訴我，他的還款計畫是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:34.714286+08:00","text":"總共收回三千九百多萬嗎？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:37.750000+08:00","text":"對，到目前為止，總共收回三千九百多萬。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:38.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:40.700000+08:00","text":"吳乃仁的部分是收回750萬，因為這個……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:41.857143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:44.800000+08:00","text":"吳乃仁才交回750萬，但是你總共要收回1.7億。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:46.600000+08:00","text":"對，這個案子……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:47.111111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:49.777778+08:00","text":"你秀出來給我們看，他的還款計畫是什麼？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:35:55+08:00","text":"因為雙方協商還沒有定案，如果協商定案之後，我們當然會……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:35:55.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:36:00.800000+08:00","text":"我今天有看到許淑華的迷你足協還款案，搞不好你們也是這樣做！","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:36:01+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:36:06.769231+08:00","text":"一開始還一點點、還一點點、還一點點，後來還很大，不是剛A錢的時候最有錢嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:36:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:36:13.750000+08:00","text":"錢還沒有處理好的時候，你們不處理，讓他只還一點點、一點點，然後打算不還了嗎？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:36:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:36:19.818182+08:00","text":"不會這樣，台糖公司處理這個案子一定會窮盡所有的方法。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:36:20.705882+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:36:22.823529+08:00","text":"對於吳乃仁所有的財產，我們都已經假扣押了。","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:36:23.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:36:25.555556+08:00","text":"吳乃仁擺明了玩弄司法、玩弄台糖，把全民當白癡。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:36:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:36:27.555556+08:00","text":"你知道網友怎麼說？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:36:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:36:35.857143+08:00","text":"一般的人欠電話費、水電費，馬上就被停話、停水、停電，一直被催；吳乃仁欠1.7億，還可以到健身房。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:36:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:36:44.727273+08:00","text":"我這輩子都沒上過健身房，逍遙法外，吃好喝好，債務協商做什麼用？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:36:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:36:52.900000+08:00","text":"債務協商當然是要請他提出合理的清償計畫，如果吳乃仁提出來的計畫，台糖公司不接受的時候……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:36:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:36:55.571429+08:00","text":"副總，你知道嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:36:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:03.666667+08:00","text":"連孫道存這個生意人當時欠了1.2億，還沒管收就把錢都還光了。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:05.750000+08:00","text":"你應該借鏡這個案子。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:09.888889+08:00","text":"我們當然希望吳乃仁能夠把錢都還了，就是因為吳乃仁不……","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:13.842105+08:00","text":"可是你有把柄、籌碼的時候，卻放他走！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:20.777778+08:00","text":"不是這個意思，如果吳乃仁還是沒有提出合理的方案，我們還是會再聲請管收。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:26.727273+08:00","text":"我繼續問副總，你剛剛也講了一遍，當初的目的是要收回欠款，所以撤回管收。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:33.789474+08:00","text":"這個邏輯，你去問你兒子跟孫子，因為我們要他還錢，所以我們就撤回，讓他回家……不是……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:34.555556+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:38.722222+08:00","text":"他回家還要自己親自到銀行去領錢嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:39.111111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:44.777778+08:00","text":"這個邏輯非常奇怪，結果到現在證實我們是對的，你一毛錢都拿不回來！","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:48.750000+08:00","text":"你為什麼不等他先還錢再放他回家呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:52.500000+08:00","text":"我到今天沒有辦法理解這件事，為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:52.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:37:57.785714+08:00","text":"因為你的目的是要他還錢，但是他連一塊錢都沒有還，你就讓他回家。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:37:59.190476+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:14.142857+08:00","text":"因為當時他的律師希望律見吳乃仁，而法院禁止，律師是希望能夠跟吳乃仁當面講清楚之後，才能提出比較合理的還款計畫，所以當時律師有提出這個要求。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:17.857143+08:00","text":"副總，是誰叫你們當庭撤回管收？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:24.625000+08:00","text":"這個是當時我們的代理人所做的決定。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:25.800000+08:00","text":"代理人是誰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:28.750000+08:00","text":"代理人是本公司的湯董事。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:35.666667+08:00","text":"湯董事敢要他當庭撤回管收？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:37.333333+08:00","text":"湯董事……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:38.714286+08:00","text":"你現在有名字囉？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:43.800000+08:00","text":"叫你撤回管收的是湯董事，你公開把他的名字講出來。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:44.272727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:50.666667+08:00","text":"是公司委託我們的董事，他具有三十多年的律師經驗，所以他是當庭在……","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:51.750000+08:00","text":"律師經驗？對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:38:56+08:00","text":"你委託他代理訴訟嗎？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:38:57.277778+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:01.722222+08:00","text":"由律師決定，不用跟董事長和總經理討論嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:06+08:00","text":"這部分是當時公司有授權。授權？對。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:10.777778+08:00","text":"你公然跟全民為敵，下一步動作是什麼呢？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:12.875000+08:00","text":"你現在沒有拿回錢，要不要再聲請管收？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:14.800000+08:00","text":"你知道管收總共可以幾次？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:16.800000+08:00","text":"副總，總共可以幾次？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:17.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:18.750000+08:00","text":"他如果沒有提……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:23.250000+08:00","text":"你浪費一次了，你總共可以幾次？最多……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:25.500000+08:00","text":"兩次而已！對……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:27.666667+08:00","text":"你現在要不要再把他管收？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:28.800000+08:00","text":"錢沒有回來！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:33.875000+08:00","text":"如果他沒有提出合理的清償計畫，我們還是會聲請管收，而且我們內部已經……","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:36.800000+08:00","text":"他就沒有，不然你今天就給我們看了。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"蕭副總經理基淵","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:44.800000+08:00","text":"因為7月16號他提出來，我們不滿意，所以台糖公司有再特別請他要提出合理的清償計畫。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:52.800000+08:00","text":"副總，我叫你用常識想一想，放了二十年，現在要管收卻又撤回來，然後他吃得好、穿得好，在外面過優渥的生活。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:39:53.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:39:59.777778+08:00","text":"請問台糖，5月15號你取得報告得知Benzo[a]pyrene超標，你有沒有報告經濟部？","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:01.307692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:02.846154+08:00","text":"龔部長，你有收到這個訊息嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:03.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:04.750000+08:00","text":"它有報告經濟部嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:06.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:06.750000+08:00","text":"它不需要通報。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:07.750000+08:00","text":"有報告嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:08.666667+08:00","text":"它不需要。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:16.833333+08:00","text":"等一下，龔部長，我跟你討論一個邏輯，需不需要是一件事，我現在不問需不需要，我也不需要你們隨便解釋的依法通報。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:21.666667+08:00","text":"請問它有沒有通知、報告？沒有。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:23+08:00","text":"你沒有收到？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:27.750000+08:00","text":"好，所以台糖沒有通報上級長官。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:30.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:30.750000+08:00","text":"它不需要。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:32.777778+08:00","text":"部長，我說的是兩件事。是啊！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:32.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:33.777778+08:00","text":"所以沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:37.714286+08:00","text":"需不需要是一件事，在專業良知上、責任上是另外一件事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:38.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:42.812500+08:00","text":"請問台糖，5月發現時有沒有通報地方衛生主管機關、食藥署？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:44.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:44.833333+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，沒有。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:45.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:45.900000+08:00","text":"什麼都沒有就對了？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:51.666667+08:00","text":"因為它不是現在食安法規定要通報的項目，它不是。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:52.307692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:40:55.777778+08:00","text":"食安法很多專家都有見解，有法學背景的人都有見解。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:40:56.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:41:03.428571+08:00","text":"你說完全都沒有通報，那就是別人的小孩死不完，你看到不合格的，別人的小孩死不完，大家各掃門前雪。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:41:04.571429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:41:05.714286+08:00","text":"台糖是國營事業。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:41:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:41:10.875000+08:00","text":"我們採購的不是最後的食用油，我們採購的是粗油，是一個中間產品。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:41:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:41:20.818182+08:00","text":"我要跟你們說，今天已經到這個程度了，全部的人都在講我有沒有合法，我也對衛福部講，你們只淪落到我有沒有違反哪一條法規。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:41:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:41:32.750000+08:00","text":"我們不只是要它合法，包括我們現在所有的大豆沙拉油和相關產品，我們驗出來都沒有問題，我們還是讓它下架。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:41:33.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:41:47.500000+08:00","text":"現在已經出事了，當時看到這麼危險而且是最高七點多倍的超標，你什麼都沒做，也沒有報告經濟部，也沒有報告食藥署，也沒有報告地方衛生主管機關，對嗎？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:41:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:41:48.875000+08:00","text":"我這樣講有問題嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:41:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:41:52.750000+08:00","text":"可能社會大眾有誤解，沒有所謂的七點多倍。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:41:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:42:01.800000+08:00","text":"因為部長也這樣說，你們沒有通報義務，你就在這裡大聲說台糖沒有通報義務，你就這樣講！","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:42:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:42:05.777778+08:00","text":"依照現在的食安法，它不是應該要通報的項目。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:42:06.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:42:18.142857+08:00","text":"台糖沒有通報義務，台糖只負責賺錢，台糖只負責用我們的納稅錢，被人家欠了也不要回來，看到人家做壞事也都靜靜的不出聲，別人的小孩死不完！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:42:19+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:42:19.400000+08:00","text":"不會啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡副總經理東霖","start":"2026-08-10T10:42:19.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:42:20.800000+08:00","text":"我們不會這樣做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員昭姿","start":"2026-08-10T10:42:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:42:23.500000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T10:42:24+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T10:42:26.500000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳昭姿委員，謝謝部長。","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T10:42:27+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T10:42:30.142857+08:00","text":"接下來請王鴻薇委員質詢。","quality":0.182}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}