{"error":false,"id":["17088"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":17088,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17088","日期":"2025-12-03","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-26-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Full","開始時間":"2025-12-03T08:34:20+08:00","結束時間":"2025-12-03T18:05:00+08:00","影片長度":"09:30:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a68566a919a0b9b1b1fbe5565ea6e1c7193cb4456b5c46cbb78c6ff3520dc0d09b1e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","會議時間":"2025-12-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、繼續審查\n(一)委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(二)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(三)委員羅廷瑋等20人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(四)委員王育敏等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(五)委員王鴻薇等20人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(六)委員楊瓊瓔等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)民進黨黨團擬具「外送員權益保障及外送平臺管理法草案」案。\n(二)委員萬美玲等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(三)委員黃健豪等17人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(四)委員林月琴等18人擬具「外送員權益保障及外送平臺管理法草案」案。\n(五)委員張嘉郡等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(六)委員許宇甄等23人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(七)委員范雲等16人擬具「外送員權益保障及外送平臺管理法草案」案。\n(八)委員郭昱晴等16人擬具「外送員權益保障及外送平臺管理法草案」案。\n(九)委員林楚茵等23人擬具「外送員權益保障及外送平臺管理法草案」案。\n(十)委員劉建國等17人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(十一)委員賴瑞隆等18人擬具「外送員權益保障及外送平臺管理法草案」案。\n(十二)委員林倩綺等21人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(十三)委員李坤城等21人擬具「外送平臺管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(十四)委員王正旭等23人擬具「外送員權益保障及外送平臺管理法草案」案。\n(十五)委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(十六)委員羅智強等19人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(十七)委員盧縣一等16人擬具「外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案」案。\n(十八)委員廖偉翔等25人擬具「外送平臺管理暨從業人員及合作商家權益保障法草案」案。\n(十九)委員黃捷等16人擬具「外送員權益保障暨外送平臺管理法草案」案。\n(二十)委員劉建國等16人擬具「外送員權益保障及外送平臺管理法草案」案。\n【二、(十六)至(十八)案，如經復議則不予審查；二、(十九)及(二十)案，如未經院會交付本會審查或未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書則不予審查】\n【逐條討論】）","委員名稱":"完整會議","委員發言時間":"08:34:20 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已組法定人數請主席宣布開會現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄"},{"start":1548.467,"end":1563.797,"text":"立法院第十一屆第四會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第十三次全體委員會議議事錄時間114年11月26日星期三9時至14時17分地點群閑樓801會議室出席委員程委員招資等15人列席委員證委員證請等16人"},{"start":1566.158,"end":1587.419,"text":"列席官員衛生福利部部長石崇良等相關人員主席劉兆吉委員建國報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定邀請衛生福利部部長財政部及環境部就蘇丹紅化學原料竄台政府如何強化進口把關及後市場查驗以維護國人健康安全進行專題報告並被質詢"},{"start":1589.421,"end":1610.337,"text":"邀請衛生福利部部長、司法院法務部、勞動部及內政部警政署就國內醫師、護理、人力需求及分布劑防止醫療暴力措施及改善情形進行專題報告並被質詢本日會議專題報告及討論事項才綜合詢答經委員林月琴、陳金輝、林淑芬及羅廷偉說明提案"},{"start":1611.278,"end":1633.723,"text":"由衛生福利部部長及環境部化學物質管理署署長蔡夢玉報告及說明後委員陳昭芝等21人提出質詢軍警衛生福利部部長司法院刑事廳副廳長務政德法務部參事汪南軍環境部化學物質管理署署長財政部關務署主任秘書蔣慧君及內政部警政署行政組組長廖財珍"},{"start":1635.143,"end":1650.978,"text":"及各相關主管等及其答覆委員徐富奎所提書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二週內書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定討論事項"},{"start":1652.659,"end":1653.94,"text":"請問委員會上次議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處"},{"start":1679.229,"end":1695.203,"text":"沒有 好 議事錄確定那本日會議議程為繼續審查外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案等六案審查外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法草案等八案"},{"start":1696.024,"end":1724.628,"text":"外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案等9案外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案1案外送平台管理暨從業人員及合作商家權益保障法草案1案以及外送員權益保障暨外送平台管理法草案1案那現在介紹在場委員及列席官員林月晴委員"},{"start":1728.308,"end":1756.593,"text":"王振旭委員范雲委員在場官員有勞動部部長洪生翰職業安全衛生署署長林玉堂勞動關係司司長王厚偉勞動保險司司長陳美女勞動法務司司長傅惠芝"},{"start":1758.103,"end":1773.096,"text":"交通部公共運輸及監理司司長胡迪奇公路局副局長周庭章數位發展部數位產業署副組長鍾嘉榮科長江紀元經濟部商業發展署副組長簡俊良"},{"start":1785.157,"end":1809.343,"text":"衛生福利部食品藥物管理署副組長蕭惠文金融監督管理委員會銀行局專門委員卓文林保險局組長陳蘭君個人資料保護委員會籌備處法治事務組科長曾傑行政院消費者保護處處長鍾瑞蘭"},{"start":1812.901,"end":1825.042,"text":"法務部參事汪南君公平交易委員會主任秘書這是下午一點以後這個毛浩吉還有處長胡祖順"},{"start":1830.492,"end":1846.114,"text":"那本次在交付之提案僅進行提案說明不另作詢答現在請新增提案委員說明提案要旨每位委員兩分鐘第一位請林月琴委員說明"},{"start":1853.304,"end":1869.669,"text":"各位委員關心外送專法的夥伴 大家好在台灣外送服務已經成為民眾生活的一部分從業人員更超過14萬人放眼國際法律納管已經事實上成趨勢近年平台的爭議頻傳所以我認為台灣"},{"start":1872.19,"end":1897.058,"text":"外送專法的推動勢在必行那我的版本呢希望能夠具體回應這項新興經濟模式帶來挑戰期待透過專法建立一個公平安全透明且四方互惠的產業環境重點有三第一保障外送員跟合作商家的一個權益明定契約範本及透明化的一個報酬的結構針對爭議事件違規停權"},{"start":1901.239,"end":1916.036,"text":"終止契約或其他不利決定建立申訴救濟機制公開揭示與處理並禁止延伸之不利對待第二強化安全措施跟教育訓練民定職業安全食品安全"},{"start":1917.403,"end":1933.312,"text":"交通安全等無收費的教育訓練課程以及回訓制度跟時數並得免重複實施此外 針對外送員發生重大交通違規或造勢時業者應有通知與協助完成"},{"start":1933.872,"end":1951.262,"text":"道安講習之義務三兼顧職業安全保障跟彈性民定平台應付的適度的一個社會保險包括商業保險跟勞工職災保險的投保跟費用負擔的義務同時民定"},{"start":1952.352,"end":1967.235,"text":"明文要求平台不得對於聚單或離線休息者不利對待最後我很期待本法的通過為外送產業帶來更穩健更人性的發展懇請各位委員支持我的修正版本謝謝謝謝林月琴委員說明接下來請范雲委員說明"},{"start":1981.659,"end":2001.178,"text":"主席大家好因為我是教育文化委員會的委員所以待會我還有教文的質詢那我先來這邊針對我的提案做說明那第一個我想現在是9點鐘不知道為什麼未還委員只有我們民進黨的委員在場那除了主席之外其他那麼關心的委員主席知道他們到哪去了嗎"},{"start":2003.931,"end":2025.526,"text":"我們尊重每個委員 因為實質審查是下午每一條 等一下是先宣讀這樣子好 我了解了 所以他們希望下午他們都能夠一起出現那個我想講的是 2020年外送員還在籌組公會的時候我當時就跟勞工陣線還有外送員夥伴一起召開記者會爭取專法那我也透過質詢公聽會要求"},{"start":2028.188,"end":2043.837,"text":"當時的勞動部跟交通部重視外送員的職業安全跟工作風險那這幾年我爭取到薪資透明指引機車外送安全指引等來對抗演算法的減薪還有颱風天外送的問題"},{"start":2044.717,"end":2068.355,"text":"但是我們也看到光是指引是不夠的因為外送平臺在臺灣落地深耕超過10年人數從4.5萬人很快就到現在的15萬人新的勞動型態沒有辦法靠平臺自律過去我們以為外送員可以自己調度工作時間但是平臺會要求外送員有一定的接單率讓他們不敢拒絕接單"},{"start":2069.156,"end":2095.532,"text":"那或者是用獎勵變相就是次數的獎勵變相誘導他拉長工時導致他們面臨交通安全的風險等所以就如同我之前說的我們的專法必須要能夠像現在國際上很多的討論在他同時保有彈性的情況下也能夠擁有安全達到所謂的Flexibility就是有Flexibility跟Security"},{"start":2096.132,"end":2112.267,"text":"那例如瑞士是直接把外送員納入傳統的勞工保障德國則有中間勞動者的類型提供一定程度的保障那希望我們這次可以共創一個薪資透明勞動公平安全的外送員工作環境跟產業謝謝我想要說明我想要補充一下"},{"start":2121.792,"end":2150.612,"text":"我想外送員這個有關於外送平台及從業人員保障法已經等了非常的久但是本席不希望是一個很像是政治鬥爭政黨對立不分顏色我相信今天針對這個平台的這個平台的專案管理法還有從業人員的權益保障法我們不分藍綠白只有改革的顏色我們希望盡速的通過以上那接下來請王振旭委員說明"},{"start":2157.725,"end":2167.641,"text":"好謝謝主席還有各位委員各位同仁大家早針對日益複雜的這個外送平台經濟提出了版本"},{"start":2168.622,"end":2187.826,"text":"這個版本的重點裡面聚焦在兩大面向第一就是要職業安全的強化第二就是演算法的透明化跟申訴機制的建立這些修正的出發點當然是希望在既有的基礎上面進一步完善對外送員勞動權利的保障"},{"start":2188.326,"end":2209.885,"text":"那第一點在強化職業安全的部分外送員長期處於高道路風險的環境我們必須要強化他的職業安全網第一個相關的就是要派單的安全基準根據現行的這個道路交通安全規則對機車負載物品也有重量跟體積的相關的規範"},{"start":2210.846,"end":2232.082,"text":"為了避免外送員因要派單超載而被迫違規且由立法明確要求外送平台業者於派單的時候即應明確的運送商品符合道路安全規則等相關法規第二個就是要保障他的離線權第三個就是針對天災停止營業的這些規定也都要非常的明確"},{"start":2233.042,"end":2252.831,"text":"第二有關演算法透明化跟深思的基礎方面我們知道數位平台時代外送員權益常受到不透明的演算法的影響我們必須要建立一定的揭露機制包括第一個演算法的揭示義務第二個終止契約的申訴小組的成立第三個演算法的舉證責任"},{"start":2254.252,"end":2266.532,"text":"我們相信以上這些機制的設計希望可以讓外送服務成為外送員的安心平台業者也得以管理而且能夠保障勞動公平的一個環境以上"},{"start":2269.823,"end":2282.796,"text":"謝謝王振旭委員說明那有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入記錄刊登公報現在請議事人員宣讀提案條文內容若有修正動議請一併宣讀"},{"start":2286.946,"end":2316.386,"text":"委員侯孟楷等21人 台灣民眾黨黨團委員羅廷惟等20人 委員王玉敏等16人委員王宏威等20人 委員楊瓊英等19人提案外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法草案民進黨黨團提案外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法草案委員萬美玲等16人 委員黃建豪等17人提案外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法草案委員林月琴等18人提案外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法草案委員張家俊等16人"},{"start":2317.066,"end":2334.214,"text":"委員徐宇珍等23人提案外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法草案委員范雲等16人委員郭玉琴等16人委員林楚英等23人提案外送人權益保障及外送平台管理法草案委員劉建國等17人提案外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法草案"},{"start":2334.734,"end":2359.788,"text":"委員賴瑞榮等18人提案 外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法草案委員林倩琦等21人提案 外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法草案委員李昆城等21人提案 外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法草案委員王振旭等23人提案 外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法草案委員徐巧欣等17人提案 委員羅志強等19人提案"},{"start":2360.228,"end":2383.334,"text":"委員盧憲義等16人提案 外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法草案委員廖偉祥等25人提案 外送平台管理及從業人員及合作商家權益保障法草案委員黃潔等16人提案 外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法草案委員劉建國等16人提案 外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法草案條文對照表"},{"start":2385.208,"end":2401.879,"text":"委員洪孟楷等21人 台灣民眾黨黨團委員羅廷瑋等20人 委員汪玉敏等16人委員王宏威等20人 委員楊瓊英等19人委員萬美玲等16人 委員黃建豪等17人委員張家俊等16人 委員徐宇珍等23人委員劉建國等17人 委員林倩琦等21人"},{"start":2402.479,"end":2425.916,"text":"委員徐曉欣等17人 委員羅志祥等19人 委員盧憲義等16人法案名稱《外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法》民進黨黨團委員林月琴等18人 委員范雲等16人委員郭育晴等16人 委員林楚英等23人委員賴銳龍等18人 委員王振旭等23人委員劉建國等16人法案名稱《外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法》"},{"start":2426.876,"end":2444.887,"text":"委員李昆城等21人提案法案名稱 外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法委員賴偉翔等25人提案法案名稱 外送平台管理及從業人員及合作商家權益保障法委員黃潔等16人提案法案名稱 外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法"},{"start":2446.127,"end":2473.109,"text":"委員廖偉祥等25人提案委員劉建國等16人提案第一章總則委員洪孟凱等21人委員羅天威等20人委員楊瓊英等19人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人提案第一條為加強外送平台業者的管理保障外送員權益特制定本法本法為規定者依其他法律規定台灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉明等16人委員王宏威等20人委員黃建華等17人委員徐宇珍等23人"},{"start":2474.21,"end":2493.352,"text":"委員許巧欽等17人委員盧憲一等16人提案第一條為管理外送平台業者保障外送員權益特制定本法本法未規定者依其他有關法律之規定民進黨黨團委員范雲等16人委員林儲英等23人委員王振旭等23人提案第一條"},{"start":2494.253,"end":2522.117,"text":"為保障外送員權益及管理外送平台業者特制定本法外送員權益保障及外送平台業者管理依本法之規定本法為規定者適用其他法律之規定但外送平台業者與外送員間寄予有僱傭關係者除適用第6條第5項第11條及第19條至第22條規定外其權益保障及處罰等事項依勞動基準法及其他相關法律規定處理委員萬美玲等16人提案第一條"},{"start":2522.977,"end":2545.962,"text":"為管理外送平台業者保障外送員及消費者之權益特制定本法本法為規定者依其他有關法律之規定委員林月琴等18人提案第一條第一項如下為保障外送員權益及管理外送平台業者促進國民消費生活安全提升貨品供應品質特制定本法第二項與民進黨黨團提案第一條第二項同"},{"start":2549.525,"end":2578.383,"text":"委員郭玉琴等16人提案第一條為保障外送員之工作權益並健全外送平台業者之管理與責任特制定本法外送員權益保障其外送平台業者管理依本法之規定本法為規定者適用其他相關法律為外送平台業者與外送員間具有雇佣關係者除第六條第五項第十一條及第十九條至第二十二條規定外其權益保障管理及處罰等事項依勞動基準法及其他相關法令辦理"},{"start":2579.845,"end":2591.975,"text":"委員賴銳龍等18人提案第一條第一項如下為維護及保障外送員勞動權以及管理外送平台業者特制定本法第二項與民進黨黨團提案第一條第二項同"},{"start":2593.823,"end":2617.474,"text":"委員林千祺等21人提案第一條第二句為保障外送人員權益與委員洪孟凱等21人提案同委員李坤誠等21人提案第一條第一項及第二項與民進黨黨團提案第一條同第三項如下外送平台具有演算法功能而對於外送員有控制指揮功能者推定兩者兼具雇佣關係"},{"start":2620.043,"end":2635.835,"text":"委員羅志強等19人提案第一條默劇違適用其他法律之規定與委員洪孟楷等21人提案同委員廖偉昌等25人提案第一條為規範外送平台業者與外送從業人員合作商家及消費者之權利義務"},{"start":2637.797,"end":2651.903,"text":"並保障外送員及合作商家之權益特制定本法外送員合作商家消費者之權益保障及外送平台業者之管理依本法之規定本法為規定者使用其他法律之規定外送平台業者與外送員兼另訂僱傭"},{"start":2653.584,"end":2676.261,"text":"契約者除適用第四條第五項第十條第十二條之第十四條及第二十二條之規定外其權益保障及處罰等事項以勞動基準法及其他相關法律規定辦理委員黃婕等十六人提案第一條第二項倒數第三據為第十一條及第二十條及第二十三條規定外與民進黨黨團提案第一條同"},{"start":2676.841,"end":2697.839,"text":"委員劉金國等16人提案第一條第一項如下為保障外送員權益管理外送平台業者維護消費者及合作商家權益特制定本法第二項倒數第三四具如下除適用第四條第五項第十條及第21條至第25條規定外與民進黨黨團提案第一條同"},{"start":2698.56,"end":2708.302,"text":"委員侯孟楷等21人委員羅廷瑋等20人委員楊從英等19人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人委員林倩琦等21人提案"},{"start":2710.106,"end":2733.869,"text":"以及台灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉敏等16人委員王宏威等20人委員黃靖豪等17人委員徐宇珍等23人委員徐巧欣等17人委員盧憲義等16人提案第二條本法之主管機關在中央為勞動部在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府但本法鎖定事項涉及各中央目的事業主管機關職責者由各該目的事業主管機關辦理"},{"start":2736.621,"end":2752.184,"text":"民進黨黨團委員范雲等16人委員林楚瑩等23人委員王真旭等23人提案第二條本法制主管機關在中央為勞動部在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府本法所定時向涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者"},{"start":2753.466,"end":2776.347,"text":"由目的事業主管機關辦理前二項主管機關及各目的事業主管機關權則劃分如下一主管機關外送服務契約停權報酬申訴制度職業安全保險外送員相關紀錄保存外送員職業安全教育訓練等有關外送員勞動權益保障之規劃推動及監督二交通主管機關基本運"},{"start":2777.248,"end":2806.081,"text":"基本運價核定消費者保護個人資料保護道路交通安全消費者相關紀錄保存外送員交通安全教育訓練等有關外送平台管理及規劃推動及監督三 經濟主管機關外送合作契約外送平台業者收取費用及爭議處理合作商家相關紀錄保存等有關合作商家權益保障事項及規劃推動及監督四 衛生福利主管機關外送食品衛生安全外送員"},{"start":2806.721,"end":2833.355,"text":"食品衛生安全教育訓練等事項之規劃推動及監督五 金融主管機關外送平台之電子支付交易安全外送員投保商業保險商品等事項之核定及監督六 數位發展主管機關外送平台之第三方服務交易安全事項之監督七 其他外送員權益保障及外送平台管理事項由各相關目的事業主管機關依職權規劃辦理"},{"start":2834.776,"end":2849.667,"text":"委员万梅林等16人提案第二条本法是主管机关在中央为劳动部在直辖市为直辖市政府在县市为县市政府本法锁定事项涉及各中央目的事业主管机关执掌者由各该机关办理"},{"start":2850.188,"end":2870.229,"text":"委員林月琴等18人提案第二條前二項主管機關及各目的事業主管機關權則劃分如下一 主管機關外送服務契約停權報酬申訴及註記職業安全保險外送員相關紀錄保存外送員職業安全教育訓練等有關外送員勞動權益保障之規劃推動及監督"},{"start":2874.042,"end":2895.883,"text":"委員郭玉行等16人提案第二條第三項第一款 倒數第二三句如下記錄保存職業安全教育訓練等有關外送員勞動權益保障之規劃第七款 莫具違逗號 由相關目的事業主管機關一職權規劃辦理予與民進黨黨團提案第二條同"},{"start":2898.047,"end":2914.967,"text":"委員賴瑞隆等18人提案第二條第二項如下本發所定事項涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌者由目的事業主管機關辦理必要時得召開跨部會首長會議會同各目的事業主管機關辦理之予與民進黨黨團提案第二條同"},{"start":2918.485,"end":2938.203,"text":"委員李坤誠等21人提案第二條第三項第一款第二具為外送員職業安全教育訓練及演算法管理機制等有關外送員勞動權益保障之規劃推動及監督第七款如下其他外送員權益保障及外送平台管理事項由各相關目的事業主管機關依職權規劃"},{"start":2940.224,"end":2965.199,"text":"由各相關目的事業主管機關依職權規劃辦理與民進黨黨團提案第二條同委員羅志強等19人提案第二條本法所稱主管機關在中央為勞動部在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府本法所稱事項涉及各中央目的事業主管機關職責者由各該目的事業主管機關辦理"},{"start":2966.82,"end":2985.251,"text":"委員六位相等二十五人提案第二條本法之主管機關在中央為勞動部在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府本法所定是向涉及各目的事業主管機關全責者由該目的事業主管機關辦理請二項主管機關及各目的事業主管機關全責劃分如下"},{"start":2985.851,"end":3007.216,"text":"一 主管機關負責外送服務契約 停權報酬申訴制度 職業安全保險外送員相關紀錄保存外送員職業安全教育訓練等有關外送員勞動權益保障之規劃推動及監督二 交通主管機關負責道路交通安全外送員交通安全教育訓練等有關外送平台管理之規劃推動及監督"},{"start":3008.696,"end":3023.781,"text":"三、经济主管机关负责外送合作契约、外送平台业者收取合作商家费用及消费者应付单运费之标准与争议处理、合作商家相关记录保存等有关合作商家权益保障事项之规划、推动及监督。"},{"start":3024.461,"end":3041.881,"text":"四 衛生福利主管機關負責外送食品衛生安全外送員食品衛生安全教育訓練等事項之規劃推動及監督五 金融主管機關負責外送平台之電子支付交易安全外送員投保商業保險商品等事項之核定及監督"},{"start":3042.441,"end":3059.051,"text":"六 數位發展主管機關負責外送平台服務交易安全資訊安全個人資料保護消費者及外送員相關記錄保存等事項之監督及管理七 其他外送員權益保障及外送平台管理事項由相關目的事業主管機關依職權規劃辦理及監督"},{"start":3063.806,"end":3080.811,"text":"回原黃街等16人提案第二條第三項第一款文字如下外送員職業安全教育訓練後面之文字為頓好演算法管理等有關外送員勞動權益保障之規劃推動及監督予以民進黨黨團提案第二條同"},{"start":3081.792,"end":3095.53,"text":"委員 劉建國等16人提案第二條本發所稱主管機關在中央為勞動部在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府本發所定時向涉及各目的事業主管機關執掌業務時由各該機關辦理前二項主管機關及各目的事業主管機關權責劃分如下"},{"start":3097.572,"end":3113.218,"text":"一 主管機關 主管外送服務契約停權報酬申訴制度職業安全衛生保險保存外送員相關紀錄外送員職業安全衛生教育訓練等有關外送員勞動權益保障之事項二 交通主管機關 主管基本運價核定"},{"start":3114.298,"end":3142.907,"text":"消費者保護個人資料保護道路交通安全保存消費者相關紀錄外送員交通安全教育訓練等有關外送平台管理之事項三 經濟主管機關主管外送合作契約外送平台業者收取費用及爭議處理保存合作商家相關紀錄等有關合作商家權益保障之事項四 衛生福利主管機關主管外送食品衛生安全外送員食品衛生安全教育訓練等事項五 金融主管機關"},{"start":3143.567,"end":3165.703,"text":"主管外送平台提供之金融支付工具交易安全外送員投保團體傷害保險及責任保險商品等事項六 數位發展主管機關主管外送平台提供之第三方支付服務交易安全事項七 其他外送員權益保障及外送平台管理事項由各相關目的事業主管機關依職權規劃辦理"},{"start":3168.044,"end":3194.325,"text":"委員紅木凱等21人提案委員楊崇英等19人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人提案第三條本法用詞定義如下一 外送平台只使用電子商務技術進行網際網路交易提供消費者購買食品商品或服務並提供外送援助消費者購買之食品商品或服務進行外送服務之平台二 外送平台業者只設置錢款平台而營業之廠商"},{"start":3195.305,"end":3200.568,"text":"3.外送員只與外送平台業者簽訂契約提供外送服務之人4."},{"start":3200.568,"end":3211.373,"text":"外送服務 指外送員使用外送平台業者指定程式或方式同意開始運送消費者購買之食品、商品或提供服務5."},{"start":3211.373,"end":3223.039,"text":"合作商家只與外送平台業者簽訂契約使用外送平台指定之應用程式或行動裝置與外送平台提供食品、商品或服務之食品業者或商業經營者"},{"start":3224.159,"end":3244.631,"text":"六 报酬 指外送员提供外送服务所得之对价七 运费 指消费者透过外送平台订购食品商品或服务除食品商品或服务之价格外另行支付之运费或服务费八 贷款 指合作商家提供食品商品或服务外送平台业者应给予之费用"},{"start":3245.091,"end":3272.275,"text":"九 外送服務契約 指外送平台業者與外送員間有關報酬計算方式 食品 商品或服務提供方式報酬給付時間及其他相關權利義務之約定十 外送合作契約 指外送平台業者與合作商家間有關食品 商品或服務貸款給付時間及其他相關權利義務之約定十一 外送服務期間 指外送員與外送平台業者"},{"start":3272.635,"end":3289.654,"text":"指定程式或裝置上限起至下限之期間十二 停權指對於外送員合作商家暫時停止上限接收訂單之處置十三 平台業者招攬行為指外送平台業者要求合作商家以推出折扣"},{"start":3290.134,"end":3316.793,"text":"付费行销广告扩大消费者可订餐范围或其他增加曝光率营收客源之业务招揽行为台湾民众党党团提案第三条本法用词定义如下依外送平台之使用电子商务技术进行网际网路交易媒合提供消费者购买商品且由外送员选择接受消费者订单并就消费者购买之商品进行送达服务之平台"},{"start":3317.393,"end":3338.02,"text":"二 外送平台業者只設置前款平台而營業之廠商三 外送員只透過外送平台接受消費者訂單前往指定之標的廠商領取商品並送達指定地點完成交付之外送服務從業人員四 外送服務契約只外送員提供外送服務外送平台業者"},{"start":3338.68,"end":3357.611,"text":"給付報酬以及就雙方權利義務有關之約定五 接單費至外送員因履行外送服務契約而獲得之報酬包括按即時 即日 即月 即借以現金或食物等方式給付之獎金 津貼及其他任何名義之給予均屬之"},{"start":3358.231,"end":3377.197,"text":"六 停存處分 外送平台業者停止指派外送員提供外送服務或其他之不利處分七 外送服務期間 指外送員於外送平台應用程式上限起至下限之時止之期間委員羅天威等二十人提案第三條第十一款如下"},{"start":3378.843,"end":3389.989,"text":"十一 外送服務期間 指外送員與外送平台業者指定程式或裝置上限起至下限之時止之期間 予以委員侯孟凱等21人提案第三條頭"},{"start":3392.148,"end":3416.765,"text":"委員王玉明等16人委員王宏威等20人委員黃建豪等17人委員徐曉欣等17人委員盧憲一等16人委員徐宇珍等23人提案第三條本法用詞定義如下一 外送平台即使用電子商務技術進行網際網路交易提供消費者購買商品並提供外送員選擇是否做消費者購買之商品進行外送服務之平台"},{"start":3417.325,"end":3429.919,"text":"三 外送員 指透過外送平台應用程式前往消費者指定之廠商領取商品再外送至消費者指定地點並交與消費者而從事外送服務之人員與台灣民眾黨黨團提案同"},{"start":3433.883,"end":3459.615,"text":"民進黨黨團委員范雲等十六人委員郭月琴等十六人委員林楚瑩等十三人提案第三條本法用詞定義如下一 外送員之與外送平台業者成立外送服務契約之從業人員二 外送平台業者之經營使用電子商務技術進行網際網路交易之平台提供消費者購買商品並將訂單發布與外送員選擇承接及進行外送服務之業者"},{"start":3460.155,"end":3484.952,"text":"三 合作商家 至与外送平台业者成立外送合作契约使用外送平台指定之应用程式或装置提供商品与消费者购买之业者四 外送合作契约 至外送平台业者与合作商家间有关商品提供货款给付及其他相关权利业务之契约五 预费 至平台货运业者向消费者及合作商家收取之运送商品费用"},{"start":3485.552,"end":3511.602,"text":"六 貸款 指合作商家透過外送平台業者提供商品與消費者外送平台業者應給予合作商家之款項七 外送服務契約 指外送平台業者與外送員間有關外送服務提供報酬計算及給付停權規範 申訴制度及其他相關權利義務事項之契約八 停權 指外送平台業者暫時停止發派訂單與外送員提供外送服務等處置"},{"start":3512.322,"end":3540.707,"text":"外送平台业者暂时停止合作商家接收消费者的订单处置9.报酬指外送员依外送服务契约提供外送服务期间所获得之劳务对价包括基本报酬各项奖金等10.外送服务指外送员使用外送平台业者指定之应用程式接受由外送平台业者发派之订单前往合作商家领取商品并交付消费者或运送至指定地点11.外送服务期间"},{"start":3541.187,"end":3563.389,"text":"至自外送員接受外送平台業者發派之每筆訂單時期至完成該訂單時止之期間十二 外送員上線期間至外送員與外送平台業者指定應用程式或裝置上線時期至下線時止之期間委員 萬美玲等16人提案第三條本法用詞定義如下一 外送平台"},{"start":3564.17,"end":3587.662,"text":"只使用電子商務技術進行網際網路交易並提供外送員選擇就消費者購買之商品進行外送服務之平台二 外送平台業者只設置前款平台而營業之廠商三 外送員只透過外送平台應用程式接受消費者訂單前往指定之廠商領取商品再送至消費者指定地點交付指定對象之外送服務從業人員"},{"start":3588.903,"end":3615.304,"text":"四 外送服務契約 指外送員提供外送服務外送平台業者給付報酬計算方式以及雙方權利義務有關之約定五 外送服務期間 指外送員與外送應用坪上限接受消費者訂單 啟致將商品交付至另對象之服務期間委員 林月琴的十八人提案第三條第三款第二據為使用外送平台指定之應用程式或行動裝置"},{"start":3617.441,"end":3634.313,"text":"第五款如下 五 運費 指外送平台業者向消費者及合作商家收取之運送商品給用第十款如下 前往合作商家領取商品並交付消費者或運送至指定地點與與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":3639.335,"end":3658.047,"text":"委員賴瑞榮等18人提案第三條第13款如下13 自動化管理指外送平台運用演算法或人工智慧系統進行派單停價或停權等決策管理之行為予以民進黨黨團提案同委員林建琦等21人提案第三條"},{"start":3659.068,"end":3682.654,"text":"除文字外送員為外送人員外與委員洪孟凱等21人提案同委員李昆城等21人提案第三條第13款如下13 演算法指以電子方式透過機器學習數據驅動技術而形成可以用於自動監控監督或評估工作者表現及用於作出對工作或服務條件產生重大影響之自動決策技術系統14"},{"start":3684.474,"end":3699.387,"text":"演算法管理 至外送平台利用演算法取代傳統人力管理至自動化效率管理及決策模式予以民進黨黨團提案同委員王振旭等23人提案第3條第13款如下13 演算法管理"},{"start":3699.747,"end":3722.269,"text":"指全部或部分以自動化方式用於分派或組織工作監督或評估外送員之工作表現或蒐集分析與外送員相關之個人資料並對外送員之工作條件報酬任務分配或契約持續產生實質影響之系統與民進黨黨團提案同委員羅志強等19人提案第三條本法用詞定義如下"},{"start":3723.03,"end":3737.903,"text":"一 外送平台支持用電子商務技術進行網際網路交易媒合提供消費者購買食品或商品且由外送員選擇接受消費者訂單並就消費者購買之食品或商品進行送達服務之平台二 外送平台業者"},{"start":3738.644,"end":3762.676,"text":"至設置遣款平台而營業之廠商三 外送員至透過外送平台媒合前往消費者指定之標的廠商領取食品或商品並送達指定地點完成交付之外送服務從業人員四 合作商家至與外送平台業者簽訂契約使用外送平台指定之應用程式或行動裝置與外送平台提供食品或商品之食品業者或商業經營者"},{"start":3765.754,"end":3794.423,"text":"五 外送服務契約 指外送員提供外送服務外送平台業者給付報酬以及就雙方權利義務有關之約定六 外送合作契約 指外送平台業者與合作商家間有關食品商品或服務貸款給付時間及其他相關權利義務之約定七 報酬 指外送員因履行外送服務契約而獲得之對價包括按時按計時計日計月計件以現金或食物等方式給付之獎金津貼"},{"start":3795.163,"end":3811.845,"text":"及其他任何名義之給予均屬之八 運費 指消費者透過外送平台訂購食品或商品除食品或商品價格外另行支付之運費或服務費九 貸款 指合作商家提供食品或商品外送平台業者"},{"start":3812.466,"end":3840.126,"text":"因給予之費用十 停權外送平台業者停止指派外送員提供外送服務或其他之不利處分十一 外送服務期間指外送員與外送平台業者指定程式或裝置上限至下限之期間委員廖偉祥等署人提案第三條本法用詞定義如下第一款及第二款與民進黨黨團提案的第二款及第一款同三 合作商家"},{"start":3841.327,"end":3863.413,"text":"子與外送平台業者成立外送合作契約使用外送平台業者指定之網站應用程式或裝置提供商品或服務於消費者及業者四 外送合作契約至外送平台業者與合作商家間有關商品提供貸款給付申訴資助及其他相關權利義務之契約五 預費至平台業者向消費者"},{"start":3863.713,"end":3885.73,"text":"及合作商家收取之运送商品费用第六款及第七款与民进党党团提案第六款及第七款同八 外送消费契约至消费者外送平台与外送平台消费下单并委托外送平台业者提供外送服务之契约第九款与民进党党团提案第八款同"},{"start":3888.118,"end":3907.756,"text":"十 報酬是外送員依外送服務契約提供外送服務期間所獲得之勞務兌價包括按即時即日即月即屆以現金或實物等方式給付之獎金津貼及其他任何名義之給予均屬之第十一款與民進黨黨團第十款同十二 外送服務期間"},{"start":3908.857,"end":3918.215,"text":"指自外送員接受外送平台業者發布之每筆訂單時期至完成該訂單服務要求為止之期間第13款與民進黨黨團第12款提案同"},{"start":3921.431,"end":3942.957,"text":"委員黃婕等16人提案第3條第13款如下13 演算法外送平台以程式或人工智慧對平台使用者數據進行監測控制評估及決策之自動化模式與民進黨黨團提案同委員劉建國等16人提案第3條本法用此定義如下依外送員之與外送平台業者成立外送服務契約之從業人員"},{"start":3943.897,"end":3967.495,"text":"二 外送平台業者 指經營使用電子商務技術進行網際網路交易之平台提供合作商家販賣商品或消費者購買商品並將訂單提供外送員重接之業者三 外送服務契約 指外送平台業者與外送員間就有關外送服務提供報酬計算及起付停權規範申訴制度及其他相關權利義務事項所成立之契約"},{"start":3968.455,"end":3987.751,"text":"四 報酬 指外送員依外送服務契約提供外送服務所獲得之勞務兌價包括基本報酬各項獎金等五 停權 指外送平台業者對外送員暫時停止提供訂單外送平台業者對合作商家暫時停止接收消費者訂單之行為六 外送服務"},{"start":3988.331,"end":4003.43,"text":"此外送員透過外送平台業者指定之應用程式或裝置接受其所提供之訂單前往合作商家領取商品並將之交付消費者或運送至消費者指定地點之行為七 外送服務期間"},{"start":4004.091,"end":4021.796,"text":"至接受外送平台業者提供之每筆訂單時起至完成該筆訂單時止之期間八 上限期間至外送員與外送平台業者指定之應用程式或裝置上限時起至下限時止之期間九 合作商家"},{"start":4022.256,"end":4048.257,"text":"至於外送平台業者成立外送合作契約是用外送平台業者指定之應用程式或裝置提供商品與消費者購買之業者十 外送合作契約是外送平台業者與合作商家間就有關商品提供貸款及付及其他相關權利一無事項所成立之契約十一 運費是平台或運業者提供運送商品服務向消費者及合作商家所收取之費用"},{"start":4048.897,"end":4056.691,"text":"十二 貸款 指合作商家透過外送平台業者提供商品與消費者後外送平台業者應給付合作商家之款項"},{"start":4058.772,"end":4086.387,"text":"委員紅毛改等21人委員楊崇英等19人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人委員林倩琦等21人提案第4條中央主管機關應定其邀請外送平台業者消費者保護官消費者保護團體學者專家合作商家或餐飲業者及有關工會就本法有關執法規則執行情形檢討協調及改進之委員羅廷威等20人提案第4條第二句為合作商家或餐飲業者及相關工會就本法執法規則執行情形檢討"},{"start":4087.387,"end":4104.721,"text":"予以委員洪孟凱等21人提案同委員萬梅琳德16人提案第4條 中央主管金關應定席邀集外送平台業者、全國性消費者保護團體代表、學者專家、合作商家或餐飲業者及有關工會做本法相關之法規及執行情形檢討協調改進之"},{"start":4107.785,"end":4130.991,"text":"委員劉建國等16人提案第二章 外送員權益保障委員洪孟凱等21人 委員羅林偉等20人 委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人 委員楊崇英等19人提案第五條中央主管機關應會同中央目的事業主管機關對於外送平台業者與外送員合作商家消費者兼重要權利義務事項擬定契約範本報請行政院核定後公告之"},{"start":4131.571,"end":4158.133,"text":"委員何孟凱等21人委員羅廷偉等20人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人提案第11條外送平台業者應與外送合作契約外送服務契約成立後7日內提供書面或電子紀錄與合作商家外送員收值契約非經合作商家或外送員同意不得變更未於契約內約定且涉及合作商家或外送員權利義務之事項外送平台業者以網際網路公報郵件書面或其他方法的表示者"},{"start":4158.953,"end":4181.226,"text":"為契約內容之變更 委員紅木改等21人 委員羅廷偉等20人 委員張家俊等16人 委員劉建國等17人 委員林倩琦等21人提案第13條 外送服務契約應記載下列事項一 報酬之金額計算方式及付時間二 停權 為規矩終止契約事由三 外送服務應具備之設備 程式或工具"},{"start":4182.026,"end":4207.424,"text":"四 外送服務基本流程五 應不可規則於外送員之適由至無法完成外送服務之處理機制六 前條第一項第三款臺灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉米等16人委員王宏威等20人委員黃俊豪等17人委員徐曉欣等17人提案第四條外送平台業者與外送員成立外送服務契約後應於7日內提供契約之書面或電子記錄與外送員收集"},{"start":4208.084,"end":4227.37,"text":"接單費之標準計算方法及發放日期由外送平台同業工會及相關之工會共同擬定報請主管機關核定費金核准不得調整前項接單費應至少包括基本費、里程費、等待費、樓層費等費用其中基本費不得低於基本工資之三分之一"},{"start":4228.73,"end":4253.255,"text":"為保障外送員權益中央主管機關應會同目的事業主管機關就接單費以外之排班請假獎懲終止契約及其他重要權利義務擬定外送服務契約範本報請行政院核定後公告之委員楊崇英等19人提案第12條與委員侯孟凱等21人提案第11條同委員楊崇英等19人提案第14條與委員侯孟凱等21人提案第13條同"},{"start":4256.682,"end":4270.389,"text":"民進黨黨團委員林月琴等18人委員林楚瑩等23人委員王振旭等23人委員黃婕等16人提案第6條中央主管機關對於外送平台業者及外送員成立外送服務契約最重要權利義務事項應理定"},{"start":4271.658,"end":4288.685,"text":"定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項並公告之前項定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項應包括停權終止外送服務契約報酬申訴制度商業保險外送服務基本流程及提供專人服務聯絡方式及其他有關外送員勞動權益之事項"},{"start":4290.706,"end":4309.541,"text":"外送平台業者與外送員成立外送服務契約違反第一項公告之定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項則無效該公告之應記載事項須為記載與契約人構成契約之內容外送平台業者變更或增補外送服務契約之重要權利義務事項應經外送員同意"},{"start":4310.041,"end":4322.686,"text":"未经外送员同意及已忘记网络公告邮件书面或其他方式对外发布或通知者不申效力外送平台业者应于外送服务契约成立后7日内提供书面或电子契约与外送员收值"},{"start":4324.951,"end":4350.311,"text":"委員 萬美林等16人提案第5條中央主管機關應會同中央目的事業主管機關對於外送平台業者與外送員合作商交消費者間重要權利義務事項訂定契約範本及其應記載及不得記載事項報請行政院核定後公告之中央主管機關應會同中央目的事業主管機關對於外送員資格外送服務期間有關食品安全交通安全之設備或工具訂定外送安全衛生服務標準"},{"start":4351.272,"end":4379.575,"text":"委員萬美玲德16人提案第6條第一項及第二項如下外送平台業者應與外送服務契約成日7日內提供書面或電子紀錄與合作商家與外送員收值借單費之標準計算方法及發放日期由外送平台業同業工會及相關工會共同擬定報請主管機關核定費金核准不得調整第三項與台灣民眾黨黨團提案第4條第三項同"},{"start":4381.658,"end":4411.378,"text":"委員徐玉珍等23人提案第4條第4項莫具違報請中央主管機關核定後公告之與台灣民用黨黨團提案同委員范雲等16人提案第6條第4項如下外送平台業者便跟第一項鎖定契約內容及外送員權益務事項應取得公會同意後使得公告之與民進黨黨團提案同委員郭玉琴等16人提案第6條第一項如下中央主管機關應依外送服務實務需要"},{"start":4412.299,"end":4436.44,"text":"拟定外送平台业者及外送员成立外送服务契约应记载及不得记载事项并公告之第二项第三四句如下契约终止报仇给付予以民进党党团提案同违约奈瑞龙等18人提案第六条第二项第二句文字应包括后面诸文字为适用自动化管理之范围顿号"},{"start":4439.406,"end":4458.84,"text":"外送平台業者變更或增補外送服務契約之重要權利義務事項應清楚說明變更之內容並經外送員同意予以民進黨黨團提案同委員您這期的二十一人提案第五條第十一條除文字外送員為外送人員外予以委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案同"},{"start":4459.54,"end":4474.619,"text":"委員李坤澄等21人提案第6條第6項如下外送平台業者使用演算法管理者需以下列規定為之一 以清晰易懂之文字向其外送員揭露其演算法相關如下之主要參數"},{"start":4477.342,"end":4496.072,"text":"規則與指令邏輯一 任務分配與調度系統影響訂單指派優先順序之因素及其相對權重二 薪酬計算系統決定每筆訂單報酬之完整計算公式包含動態定價之出發條件與加成倍率"},{"start":4496.852,"end":4526.695,"text":"三 绩效评估系统所有评估外送员之指标其计算方式及该指标如何影响外送员之评级奖励资格与接单机会二 签款演算法之揭露义务规范细则及程序由中央组织机关定之三 外送平台业者应成立专责单位或人力协助外送员了解及知悉本项所定之演算法揭露内容必要时并应以电子讯息或书面方式"},{"start":4526.815,"end":4555.417,"text":"等得以長久留存或驗證方式為之與民進黨黨團提案同委員羅志強等19人提案第4條與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第5條同委員羅志強等19人提案第6條第一項如下外送平台業者應與外送服務契約外送合作契約成立後7日內提供契約之書面或電子記錄與外送員合作商家收值第二項莫具如下"},{"start":4557.305,"end":4580.185,"text":"視為契約內容之變更 於委員洪孟凱等21人提案第11條第三項同第三項與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第11條第二項同委員羅志強等19人提案第7條續文及第12457款與委員洪孟凱等21人提案續文及第一至第五款同第三及第六款如下"},{"start":4581.386,"end":4604.694,"text":"三 申訴制度六 外送平台客服聯絡方式應至少記載電話電子郵件委員盧先一等16人提案第四條第一項及第二項前段與委員王玉敏等16人提案第一項及第二項同第二項後段如下應於7日內提供契約之書面或電子記錄與外送元收值"},{"start":4606.914,"end":4625.851,"text":"中央主管機關核定階段費率前因審酌相關法規地理區域地區偏遠程度外送距離入礦難易度及相關營運成本核定差別化之外送服務基本運價第三項與委員王玉敏等16人提案第三項同第四項莫具為"},{"start":4627.977,"end":4646.872,"text":"報請中央主管機關核定後公告之與委員王玉敏等16人提案第4項同委員廖衛祥等25人提案第4條中央主管機關應就外送平台業者與外送員間成立之外送服務契約之重要權利義務事項訂定定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項並予公告"},{"start":4647.953,"end":4652.735,"text":"前項定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項應包括下列事項1."},{"start":4652.735,"end":4653.996,"text":"停權規定2."},{"start":4653.996,"end":4655.476,"text":"終止契約規定3."},{"start":4655.476,"end":4656.997,"text":"申訴處理機制4."},{"start":4656.997,"end":4659.298,"text":"報酬明細及記新方式5."},{"start":4659.298,"end":4660.519,"text":"教育訓練6."},{"start":4660.519,"end":4661.839,"text":"商業保險7."},{"start":4661.839,"end":4663.84,"text":"外送服務基本流程8."},{"start":4663.84,"end":4666.081,"text":"提供專能服務聯絡方式9."},{"start":4666.081,"end":4667.141,"text":"其他有關外送員勞動權益之事項"},{"start":4668.622,"end":4685.735,"text":"外送平台業者與外送員成立之外送服務契約違反第一項公告之定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項者其違反部分無效該公告之應記載事項頌未記載於契約中仍視為契約之一部分"},{"start":4687.287,"end":4714.46,"text":"外送平台業者變更或增補外送服務契約之重要權利義務事項應經外送員同意並經主管機關備查未經外送員同意及網際網路公告郵件書面或其他方式對外發布或通知者不勝效力外送平台業者應與外送服務契約成立後三日內提供書面或電子契約與外送員收值契約有變更或增補時一同委員劉建國等16人提案第4條"},{"start":4715.22,"end":4742.035,"text":"中央主管機關應就外送平台業者與外送員成立外送服務契約之重要權利義務事項擬定定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項並公告之前項定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項應包括報酬計算與給付方式停權終止外送服務契約申訴制度保險外送服務基本流程專人服務聯繫聯絡方式及其他有關外送員勞動權益之事項"},{"start":4743.776,"end":4761.588,"text":"外送平台業者與外送員成立外送服務契約違反第一項公告之定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項者無效該公告之應記載事項雖未記載於契約仍構成契約之內容外送平台業者變更或增補外送服務契約之重要權利義務事項"},{"start":4762.628,"end":4788.571,"text":"應經外送員同意且不得已不利對待方式是外送員同意變更或增補之未經外送員同意及以網際網路公告郵件書面或其他方式對外發布或通知者不勝效力外送平台業者應與外送服務契約成立後7日內提供書面或電子契約與外送員收值委員廖偉祥等25人提案第二章外送員薪資計算基準"},{"start":4790.885,"end":4805.647,"text":"委員侯孟凱等二十一人委員張家俊等十六人委員劉建國等十七人委員林倩琦等二十一人提案第十四條外送平台業者應發給外送員報酬明細表每月至少一次報酬之計算包含多種項目者應按每項"},{"start":4806.889,"end":4821.075,"text":"因按每一項目名列與報酬名細表以書面或與網頁指定使用應用程式或其他方式明示其金額及計算方式不得緊列總額計算報酬之項目是以事實為基礎計算則"},{"start":4822.876,"end":4839.906,"text":"因依该正确事实计算并使外送员得及时查阅外送平台业者提供合作商家货款明细表准用本条规定委员罗廷辉等20人提案第14条第一项及第二项与委员洪孟凯等21人提案同第三项如下"},{"start":4840.586,"end":4863.498,"text":"前項報酬費應至少包含基本費里程費等待費樓層費等費用其中基本費不得低於基本工資之三分之一第四項及第五項與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第三項及第四項同委員楊瓊英等19人提案第15條第三項莫具為使外送員得及時查閱於委員洪孟凱等21人提案第14條同"},{"start":4867.58,"end":4883.136,"text":"民進黨黨團委員范雲等16人委員林楚英等23人委員王真旭等23人委員黃潔等16人提案第9條交通主管機關因依公路法規核定基本運價外送平台業者給付外送員每筆訂單之基本報酬不得低於"},{"start":4883.837,"end":4903.759,"text":"不得低於一前項基本運價所定之運費且外送服務期間換算之每小時基本報酬不得低於最低工資法所定每小時最低工資外送平台業者給付外送員報酬應存額直接給付且每月至少定期發給一次並應提供在名下列十項之外送員報酬明細表"},{"start":4904.219,"end":4927.836,"text":"一報酬總額二每筆訂單報酬之計算方式及金額三依法令或雙方約定的扣除之項目及其金額四實際發起之金額外送平臺業者應自備外送員報酬清澈將給付報酬總額報酬明細等十項紀錄報酬清澈應保存五年委員林月琴等十八人提案第九條第一項如下交通主管機關依公路法"},{"start":4929.008,"end":4944.08,"text":"依公路法規核定自運費 其項目應包括啟程費 續程費 並得加計等待費 樓層費 夜間加成費及春節加成費第二項第二句如下 不得低於前項運費 予以民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":4945.061,"end":4966.315,"text":"委員郭玉琴等16人提案第9條第一項如下交通主管機關因依公路法及相關法規核定外送服務基本運價第三項序文如下外送平台業者應全額直接給付報酬並每月至少發給一次且應提供在名下列四項之報酬明細表予以與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":4968.462,"end":4990.654,"text":"委員賴瑞榮等18人提案第9條第5項如下 外送平台業者應揭露報酬計算方式 歷次調整及其依據 與民進黨黨團提案同委員李昆城等21人提案第9條第4項如下 外送源自消費者取得之小費 屬外送源與消費者兼之個別給付 不得計入前項所定報酬總額"},{"start":4991.574,"end":5014.978,"text":"第五項與民進黨黨團提案第四項同與民進黨黨團提案同委員廖偉祥等二十五人提案第八條報酬項目為基本費里程費等代費樓層費等費用前項報酬之總額不得低於最低工資法所定每小時最低工資三分之一報酬之標準計算方法及發放日期由主管機關會同交通主管機關共同定之"},{"start":5015.838,"end":5038.887,"text":"委員廖偉祥等25人提案第9條外送平台業者應提供外送員在名下列事項之報酬明細表1.報酬總額2.薪資計算方式及金額3.依法令或雙方約定得扣除之項目及其金額4.實際發起之金額外送平台業者應自備外送員報酬清冊將其付報酬總額及報酬明細等事項記錄並應保存5年"},{"start":5041.788,"end":5068.426,"text":"委員 劉建國等16人提案第5條交通主管機關應依公路法規核定基本運價外送平台業者應提供運價成本相關資料供交通主管機關審定外送平台業者給付外送員每筆訂單之基本報酬不得低於1錢向基本運價所計算之運費且每筆訂單外送服務期間換算之每小時基本報酬不得低於最低工資法所定每小時最低工資之1.25倍"},{"start":5070.007,"end":5098.749,"text":"外送平台業者給付外送員報酬因權而直接給付但法令另有規定或雙方另有約定則不在此限外送平台業者給付外送員報酬每月至少定期發給兩次並應提供在名下列四項之報酬明細表第一款至第四款與第一款至第四款以及第五項與民進黨黨團第九條第三項以及第一至第四款第四項同"},{"start":5101.195,"end":5112.054,"text":"委員 劉建國等16人提案第6條外送平台業者於提供訂單與外送員時應明確告知訂單之預估報酬取送商品地點及其他相關重要資訊"},{"start":5113.601,"end":5138.798,"text":"委員黃孟凱等21人委員楊瓊英等19人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人提案第6條中央主管機關應會同中央目的事業主管機關對於外送員資格外送服務期間有關食品安全交通安全之設備或工具訂定外送安全衛生服務標準委員羅廷威等20人提案第6條第三據為外送服務期間有關食品安全衛生與委員黃孟凱等21人提案同"},{"start":5139.759,"end":5151.921,"text":"委員林倩琦等21人提案第6條除文字外送員為外送人員外予以委員洪孟楷等21人提案同委員羅志強等19人提案第5條予以委員洪孟楷等21人提案第6條同"},{"start":5154.315,"end":5170.569,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉敏等16人委員王宏威等20人委員徐玉珍等23人委員盧憲一等16人提案第6條外送平台業者應與外送平台介面客戶端明確揭示下列各款事項一商品重量體積及價格服務費或運費之金額"},{"start":5171.71,"end":5189.31,"text":"2.消费者取消订单之退费机制3.外送平台业者得取消订单之情事及退费机制4.商品持严交付交付商品之种类或数量与订单不符及商品损坏之处理方式收退费用及补偿措施"},{"start":5190.251,"end":5218.745,"text":"委員外媒林等十六人提案第八條外送平台業者應與外送平台界面明確揭示下列各款事項一商品價格服務費運費手續費及其他相關費用之金額二消費者取消訂單之退費機制三外送平台業者的取消訂單之事由及退費機制四商品交付遲延之處理方式五交付商品之種類或數量與訂單不符及商品有瑕疵或損壞之處理方式收退費用及賠償措施"},{"start":5219.705,"end":5244.89,"text":"委員黃建豪等17人提案第6條第一、三、四、五款如下1、商品價格、服務費或運費之金額3、外送平台業者的取消訂單之事由及退費機制4、商品持言交付之處理方式5、交付商品之種類或數量與訂單不符及商品損壞之處理方式收退費用及賠償方案予以委員王玉敏等16人提案同"},{"start":5247.112,"end":5273.421,"text":"委員李坤晨等21人提案第4條第一項如下外送平台業者應於平台介面上清楚揭示下列事項確保消費者交易資訊透明一商品價格服務費及運費等金額明細二消費者下單時應明確顯示取餐地點與配送地點之距離或預估配送里程供消費者參考三消費者取消訂單時之退費條件與處理程序四外送平台業者取得"},{"start":5274.381,"end":5291.671,"text":"外送平台業者得取消訂單之情形及其退費機制五 商品若有持言交付品項或數量與訂單不符或發生損壞時之處理流程收退費標準及補償方式第二項與民進黨黨團提案第四條同"},{"start":5292.671,"end":5320.005,"text":"委員許巧欣等17人提案第6條外送平台業者應與外送平台介面客戶端明確揭示下列事項各款事項1 商品價格服務費或運費之金額2 消費者取消訂單之退費機制3 外送平台業者的取消訂單之事由及退費機制4 商品持言交付之處理方式5 交付商品之種類或數量與訂單不符及商品損壞之處理方式收退費用及賠償方案"},{"start":5321.065,"end":5339.886,"text":"委員羅志強等十九人提案第十條 續文及第三四五款與臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第六條 第二三四款相同第一款及第二款如下一 商品重量提積及價格 二 運費或運費以外應付之金額"},{"start":5343.652,"end":5367.533,"text":"民進黨黨團委員林月琴等18人委員范雲等16人委員賴瑞榮等18人委員李昆城等21人委員王振旭等23人委員黃潔等16人提案第7條外送原因提供外送服務違反《個人資料保護法》《性騷擾防治法》《跟蹤騷擾防治法》《刑法》《交通法規》或《食品安全衛生法規》且清潔重大者外送平台業者使得終止外送服務契約"},{"start":5368.334,"end":5395.163,"text":"外送平台業者依前項規定終止外送服務契約或為其他影響外送員權益之不利決定時應續名完整解明及可理解之理由通知外送員且就其理由之存在負舉證責任並依第十條規定給予外送員申訴機會委員郭玉琴等16人提案第七條第一項倒數第三句如下倒入交通管理處罰條例或食品安全衛生管理法等法令"},{"start":5396.79,"end":5425.4,"text":"予與民進黨黨團提案同委員林儲英等23人提案第7條第一項文字交通法規後面之文字為或食品安全衛生法或食品安全衛生法規者外送平台業者的終止外送服務契約第二項默契為並給予外送員申訴機會予與民進黨黨團提案同委員羅志強等19人提案第16條第一項與民進黨黨團提案第7條第一項同第二項如下"},{"start":5426.34,"end":5441.989,"text":"外送平台業者依前項終止外送服務契約或為其他影響外送員權益之不利處分應續名完成理由通知外送員且就其理由負舉證責任並給予外送員申訴機制委員廖維鄉等二十五人提案第六條"},{"start":5442.689,"end":5460.766,"text":"外送員提供外送服務時違反個人資料保護法性騷擾防治法跟蹤騷擾防治法刑法道路交通管理處罰條例或食品安全衛生相關法規且清潔重大者外送平台業者使得終止外送服務契約外送平台業者依前項規定終止外送服務契約"},{"start":5461.787,"end":5485.769,"text":"或就其他影響外送員權益事項為不利決定時應以書面或電子文件序名完整簡明即可理解即可理解之理由通知外送員且就其理由之存在負舉證責任外送平台業者依前項為不利決定者應依第17條規定提供外送員申訴之機會委員劉建國等16人提案第7條第1項前4句如下"},{"start":5486.309,"end":5505.647,"text":"外送員於提供外送服務期間有違反個人資料保護法性騷擾防治法跟蹤騷擾防治法第二項莫二據如下且就其理由附舉證責任並依第九條規定給予外送員申訴機會予以民進黨黨團提案第七條同"},{"start":5507.884,"end":5526.619,"text":"委員何孟楷等21人委員羅廷瑋等20人委員楊聰英等19人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人委員林倩琦等21人提案第8條外送員與外送平台業者間非為僱傭關係者外送平台業者的續名理由後並於30日前預告外送員與其終止外送服務契約"},{"start":5527.319,"end":5542.367,"text":"外送平臺業者依前項中止 外送服務契約者應發給外送員經濟補償前項經濟補償之給付標準期限及其他相關事項之規定由中央主管機關定之臺灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉米等16人 委員王宏威委員看一下委員王宏威"},{"start":5553.77,"end":5579.037,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉敏等16人委員王宏威等20人委員黃建豪等17人委員徐宇貞等23人委員徐曉新等17人委員盧憲一等16人提案第10條與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第8條同委員洪孟凱等21人委員羅廷瑋等20人委員楊瓊英等19人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人委員林倩琦等21人提案第9條"},{"start":5581.161,"end":5605.216,"text":"外送員與外送平台業者間非為僱傭關係者外送平台業者有下列情形之一者外送員得終止外送服務契約一 外送平台業者於訂立外送服務契約時為虛位之意思表示是外送員誤信而有受損害之餘二 外送平台業者對外送員有違反外送服務契約或勞工法令之停權處分或其他損害行為三 其他法令另有規定"},{"start":5606.457,"end":5629.477,"text":"外送原液前項終止外送服務契約者外送平台業者因應前條之規定發給外送員經濟補償外送原液第一項個款之規定終止契約者因自知悉其情形之日起三十日內為之臺灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉敏等十六人委員王紅薇等二十人委員黃建豪等十七人委員徐巧欣等十七人提案第十一條與委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案第九條同"},{"start":5634.133,"end":5663.393,"text":"民進黨黨團委員范雲等16人委員郭玉琴等16人委員林楚英等23人委員賴瑞榮等18人委員李昆城等21人委員王正旭等23人委員黃潔等16人提案第8條外送平台業者有下列情形之一者外送員得終止外送服務契約一 外送平台業者與成立外送服務契約時為虛諱之意思表示是外送員誤信而有受損害之餘二 外送平台業者有違反外送服務契約或本法規定自有損害外送員權益"},{"start":5664.654,"end":5683.876,"text":"外送員一前項規定終止外送服務契約應自知悉其情形或損害結果之日起三十日內為之外送員一第一項規定終止外送服務契約外送平台業者應發給外送員經濟補償前項經濟補償是幾乎基準期限方式及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":5684.837,"end":5704.826,"text":"委員外媒林德十六人提案第十五條第一項第三款如下三 外送平台業者違反本法或其他法令規定至外送員權益受損 予以委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案第九條同委員林月琴等十八人提案第八條第一項第三款如下三 其他可歸則於外送平台業者之事由予以民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":5708.908,"end":5730.528,"text":"委員許玉珍等23人提案第11條外送員依前項終止外送服務契約者外送平台業者因應前條之規定給予外送員補償委員羅志強等19人提案第15條與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第9條同委員盧仙怡等16人提案第11條第二項莫具為"},{"start":5732.495,"end":5757.694,"text":"給予外送員補償與委員王玉明等16人提案同委員廖維祥等25人提案第7條外送平台業者有下列情形之一者外送員得終止外送服務契約一 外送平台業者與成立外送服務契約時為虛位之意思表示致外送員誤信而有受損害之餘二 外送平台業者違反外送服務契約或本法之規定致損害外送員權益"},{"start":5758.835,"end":5771.949,"text":"外送員依前項規定終止外送服務契約者應自知悉其情形或損害結果之日起三十日內為之外送員依第一項規定終止外送服務契約者外送平台業者應與外送員經濟補償"},{"start":5774.131,"end":5797.608,"text":"前項經濟補償之給付基準期限方式及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之委員劉建國等十六人提案第八條第一項第二款如下二 外送平台業者違反外送服務契約或本法規定自有損害外送員存益之餘第四項倒數第二句為方式及其他有關事項之辦法與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":5800.185,"end":5825.078,"text":"委員侯孟楷等21人委員楊瓊英等19人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人委員林倩琦等21人提案第7條外送員與外送平台業者兼為僱傭關係者應適用勞動基準法規定臺灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉米等16人委員王宏威等20人委員黃建豪等17人委員徐宇貞等23人委員徐曉新等17人委員盧新義等16人提案第9條與委員侯孟楷等21人提案第7條同"},{"start":5826.636,"end":5841.014,"text":"委員羅廷偉等二十人提案第七條 莫具為應適用勞動基準法制規定與委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案同委員萬美玲等十六人提案第十一條委員羅志強等十九人提案第十三條與臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第九條同"},{"start":5850.885,"end":5863.595,"text":"委員紅夢凱等二十一人委員羅廷瑋等二十人委員張家俊等十六人委員劉建國等十七人委員林千祺等二十一人提案第十五條外送平台業者對外送員應建立下列事項之申訴或客戶服務機制制度"},{"start":5866.587,"end":5885.318,"text":"一報酬資金額計算方式給付時間 二停權違規及終止契約事由 三其他對外送員不利益之處分 四販賣或兌換服裝工具設備者其退換或及保固 前項第一款至第三款以外送平台業者提出具體明確事實 使得對外"},{"start":5886.363,"end":5911.104,"text":"外送員停權終止契約或其他不利益處分臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第七條外送平臺業者應建立下列申訴制度一 外送員停權違規及終止契約處分二 報酬之金額計算方式給付時間三 消費者就消費關係所發生之爭議前項第一款第二款申訴之相關準則由中央主管機關定之並由外送平臺業者以書名或其他適當方式告知外送員"},{"start":5911.864,"end":5928.349,"text":"前項第三款申訴之方式由外送平臺業者自行訂定報經行政院消費者保護處被查後與外送平臺介面公告之委員王玉明等16人委員王宏威等20人委員黃建豪等17人委員許曉清等17人委員許宇貞等23人提案第7條"},{"start":5929.349,"end":5957.808,"text":"外送平臺業者應建立下列申訴制度一 外送員不服停權處分二 消費者就消費關係所發生之爭議前項第一款申訴之相關準則由中央主管機關定之並由外送平臺業者以書面或其他適當方式告知外送員前項第二款申訴之方式由外送員 由外送平臺業者自行訂定報經行政院消費者保護處被查後與外送平臺介面公告之委員楊崇英等19人提案第16條"},{"start":5958.889,"end":5981.566,"text":"與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第15條同民進黨黨團委員林儲英等23人委員黃潔等16人提案第10條外送平台業者對外送員應建立下列事項之申訴制度一 報酬金額計算方式及給付時間二 停權終止外送服務契約或其他對於外送員不利決定三 外送員與合作商家或消費者就外送服務所發生之爭議"},{"start":5982.447,"end":6003.379,"text":"前項申訴制度應至少包括受理單位救濟管道與處理流程處理時間回覆方式及申訴成立後之補償措施等內容並由外送平台業者公開揭示外送平台業者應就其依第七條規定與外送員終止外送服務契約之爭議成立處理小組受理外送員之申訴前項處理小組應定期召開會議"},{"start":6004.239,"end":6013.686,"text":"其成員應符合下列規定並與外送平台業者間無利害關係一 人數不得低於三人二 由具備勞動法令專業或熟悉外送平台產業"},{"start":6016.548,"end":6035.881,"text":"食物運作之外部專家學者擔任委員外媒林等十六人提案第九條外送平台業者應建立下列事項之申訴制度一外送員停權為規矩中止契約處分二外送員報酬計算方式給付時間三消費者就消費關係所發生之爭議前項第一款第二款申訴是相關準則由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":6036.441,"end":6063.291,"text":"並由外送平台業者以書面或其他適當方式告知外送員第一項第三款申訴之方式由外送平台業者自行訂定報經行政院消費者保護處被查後與外送平台介面公告之委員林月琴等十八人提案第十條第一項序文默劇為應建立下列事項之申訴申訴及救濟制度第一款及第二款如下一報酬金額計算方式給付時間二停權違規終止契約或其他對於外送員不利決定"},{"start":6064.051,"end":6083.024,"text":"第二項守據如下前項申訴及救濟制度第四項如下外送平台業者不得因外送員提出申訴或協助他人申訴而予終止契約停選或其他不利對待第五項守據為第三項處理小組成員因病期召開予與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":6085.993,"end":6112.624,"text":"委員范雲等十六人提案第十條外送平台業者就限制暫停或終止外送員賬戶拒絕支付全部或部分之外送員工作報酬之事項消費者就消費關係所發生之爭議應建立申訴委員會申訴委員會成員應包括工會代表具備勞動法令專業或熟悉外送平台業產業實務運作之外部學者專家學者前向工會代表"},{"start":6113.144,"end":6134.553,"text":"具備勞動法令專業或熟悉外送平台產業實務運作之外部專家學者不得少於二分之一單一性別不得少於三分之一委員會之組成運作方式申訴救濟程序等由中央主管機關另訂之外送平台業者不得因外送員提出申訴或協助他人申訴而對其作出任何不利之處分"},{"start":6135.856,"end":6162.011,"text":"委員郭玉琴的十六人提案第十條第一項序文如下外送平台業者應建立外送員申訴制度申訴範圍如下第二項如下前項申訴制度應包括受理單位救濟管道處理流程與實現回覆方式及補償措施等內容並由外送平台業者公開揭示第四項序文手續如下前項小組應定期召開會議逗號予與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":6164.246,"end":6188.295,"text":"委員賴瑞榮等十八人提案第十條第一項與民進黨黨團提案第一項同第二項如下未送平台未前項第二款之決定不得僅以自動化管理為之應建立人工複合機制第三項守據為第一項申訴制度與與民進黨黨團第二項同第四項及第五項與民進黨黨團提案第三項及第四項同"},{"start":6188.955,"end":6206.242,"text":"委員李昆城等21人提案第10條第三項如下外送平台業者使用演算法管理者除有第7條情形外凡涉及暫時或永久停權等對外送員權益有重大影響之自動化決策外送員有權要求針對外送平台業者應指派一位據"},{"start":6207.222,"end":6232.033,"text":"具備審查與符合權限的真人管理者進行重新審查並在七日內獲得書面回覆第四項與第五項與民進黨黨團提案第三及第四項同與民進黨黨團提案同委員王振旭等二十三人提案第十條第五項如下申訴內容涉及外送平台業者演算法管理外送平台業者就該決定理由之存在應負舉證責任與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":6235.354,"end":6253.51,"text":"委員羅志強等十九人提案第十一條第一項如下外送平台業者應建立下列申訴制度一外送員停權違規及終止契約處分二報酬資金額計算方式及給付時間三消費者就消費關係所發生之爭議第二項前段倒數第二句之前文字為"},{"start":6254.711,"end":6280.812,"text":"前項第一款第二款申訴之相關準則第二項後段守據為前項第三款申訴之方式與臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第七條第二項同委員盧憲義等十六人提案第七條外送平臺業者應建立下列申訴制度且申訴制度應至少包括受理單位救濟管道處理流程與實現回復方式及補償措施等內容並公開揭示一外送員不服停權之處分"},{"start":6281.773,"end":6307.671,"text":"二 消費者就消費關係所發生之爭議前項第一款申訴之相關準則由中央主管機關定之並組成申訴處理小組其成員由具備勞動法令專業或熟悉外送平臺產業實務運作之外部專家學者擔任前項小組不定 應不定期召開會議其成員應符合下列規定並與外送平臺業者兼無利害關係一 人數不得低於三人二 成員應"},{"start":6308.772,"end":6324.646,"text":"二 成員至少包括一名由具備勞動法令專業或熟悉外送平台產業實務運作之外部專家學者擔任三 外送員為援助民族時申訴處理小組成員應至少有一人為援助民族相關領域專家學者"},{"start":6325.667,"end":6341.476,"text":"並由外送平台業者以書面或其他適當方式告知外送員前項第二款申訴之方式由外送平台業者自行訂定報經行政院消費者保護處被查後與外送平台介面公告之委員廖偉湘等二十五人提案第十七條"},{"start":6342.637,"end":6365.856,"text":"外送平臺業者應建立下列申訴制度一 外送員停權違規及終止契約處分二 報酬之金額計算方式給付時間三 合作店家就消費關係所發生之爭議四 消費者就消費關係所發生之爭議前項第一款第二款第三款申訴之相關準則由中央主管機關定之並由外送平臺業者以書面或其他適當方式告知外送員"},{"start":6366.696,"end":6393.502,"text":"前項第四款申訴之方式由外送平臺業者自行訂定報經行政院消費者保護處被查後與外送平臺界面公告之外送平臺業者應就其與外送員停權及終止外送服務契約之爭議成立處理小組受理外送員之申訴前項處理小組應定其召開會議其成員應符合下列規定並與外送平臺業者間無利害關係依人數不得低於三人"},{"start":6395.014,"end":6416.874,"text":"二 由具備勞動法令專業或熟悉外送平台產業實務運作之外部專家學者擔任三 應至少包含外送工會或相關勞工代表一人委員劉建國等十六人提案第九條外送平台業者應就下列事項建立申訴制度提供外送員進行申訴一 報酬金額計算方式及給付時間"},{"start":6417.555,"end":6438.437,"text":"二 停權終止外送服務契約或其他對外送員不利決定三 外送員與合作商家或消費者就外送服務所發生之爭議前項申訴制度應至少包括受理單位處理時間回覆方式及申訴成立後之補償措施等內容並由外送平台業者公開揭示之外送平台業者應就其一"},{"start":6438.897,"end":6461.799,"text":"第七條規定與外送員終止外送服務契約之爭議成立獨立處理小組受理外送員之申訴前項獨立處理小組應定期召開會議其成員應符合下列規定一 人數不得低於三人其中工會代表至少一人二 前款工會代表以外之小組成員應由具備勞動法令專業或首席外送平台"},{"start":6463.16,"end":6470.922,"text":"產業食物運作之外部專家學者擔任 3與外送平台業者間無利害關係來報告委員會先休息10分鐘"},{"start":7402.774,"end":7430.765,"text":"現在繼續開會請議事人員接續宣讀委員廖偉祥等25人提案第4章申訴制度台灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉敏等16人提案委員王宏威等20人委員黃建豪等17人委員徐巧欣等17人委員徐宇貞等23人委員盧憲義等16人提案第8條外送平台業者使外送員為外送服務時應符合下列規定一上線後使得提供外送服務二不得違反外送員之意願使其維持上線狀態"},{"start":7432.486,"end":7457.445,"text":"民進黨黨團委員林月琴等18人委員范雲等16人委員林楚英等23人委員李昆城等21人委員黃婕等16人提案第12條外送平台業者使外送員從事外送服務時應符合下列規定一外送平台業者不得強制排定外送員上線期間或違反外送員意願使其維持上線狀態二外送平台業者對於外送員拒絕接單或選擇下單休息不得有不利對待"},{"start":7458.626,"end":7486.682,"text":"委員萬美玲等16人提案第10條與台灣民眾黨黨團提案第8條同委員郭玉琴等16人提案第12條第一款如下一 外送平台業者不得強制排定外送員上線時間或違反其意願要求持續上線予與民進黨黨團提案同委員賴瑞榮等18人提案第12條第三款如下三 外送員有權自主決定上線與下線時間於天災或危險氣候期間得拒絕出行不得受不利處分"},{"start":7488.082,"end":7510.531,"text":"與民進黨黨團提案同委員王振旭等二十三人提案第十二條第三款如下三 外送平台業者發派外送服務與外送原食其運送之單項商品重量與體積以及單筆訂單之總重量及總體積應符合道路交通安全規則關於機車負載物品之規定與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":7511.693,"end":7532.032,"text":"委員羅志強等19人提案第12條與臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第8條同委員廖偉祥等25人提案第16條外送平臺業者使外送員從事外送服務時除以外送服務契約外應遵守下列規定一不得強制排定外送員上線期間或違反外送員意願使其維持上線狀態"},{"start":7533.453,"end":7549.267,"text":"二對於外送員拒絕接單或選擇下線不得有不利對待委員劉建國等16人提案第11條序文如下外送平台業者使外送員提供外送服務時應符合下列規定與民進黨黨團提案第12條同"},{"start":7550.908,"end":7578.206,"text":"委員侯孟楷等21人委員羅廷威等20人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人委員林倩琦等21人提案第19條外送員與外送平台業者間非為僱傭關係者應准用勞工保險條例及勞工職業災害保險及保護法由外送平台業者為外送員辦理參加勞工保險及勞工職業災害保險台灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉明等16人委員王宏威等20人委員黃建豪等17人"},{"start":7579.006,"end":7592.515,"text":"委員徐曉新等17人委員徐宇珍等23人提案第13條與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第8條同委員楊聰英等19人提案第20條與委員洪孟凱等21人第19條提案同"},{"start":7594.827,"end":7611.355,"text":"民進黨黨團委員范雲等16人委員林楚瑩等23人委員賴瑞榮等18人委員王振旭等23人委員黃婕等16人提案第14條外送員依勞工職業災害保險及保護法第10條規定或經由其所屬職業公會辦理參加勞工職業災害保險"},{"start":7611.915,"end":7628.286,"text":"得減付繳費證明向外送平台業者申請支付自行負擔之保險費外送平台業者不得拒絕外送員同時與二個以上外送平台業者提供外送服務僅得擇依申請委員萬美玲等16人提案第12條第二句如下"},{"start":7629.146,"end":7646.313,"text":"人應准用勞工保險條例及勞工職業災害保險及保護法與民眾與臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第十三條同委員林月琴等十八人提案第十四條第二項如下外送員同時於二個以上外送平臺提供外送服務得擇依申請與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":7649.134,"end":7672.089,"text":"委員郭玉琴等16人提案第14條外送員依《勞工職業災害保險及保護法》第10條規定或經由其所屬職業工會辦理參加勞工職業災害保險者得減負繳費證明向外送平台業者申請支付其自行負擔之保險費外送平台業者不得拒絕外送員同時與2個以上外送平台業者提供外送服務者僅得擇依申請"},{"start":7674.21,"end":7700.895,"text":"委員李坤誠等21人提案第14條第一項如下外送平台業者應確認外送員已完成勞工職業災害保險之投保程序後使得開放其登錄系統或派發訂單第二項及第三項與民進黨黨團提案同委員羅志祥等19人提案第18條與台灣民眾黨黨團提案第13條同委員盧先義等16人提案第13條第一項與委員王玉敏等16人提案同"},{"start":7701.375,"end":7714.871,"text":"第二項如下外送停台業者應與外送服務契約成立時或外送員請求時以書面或電子方式主動告知外送員依規定得申請保險經濟權利與程序委員廖偉祥等25人提案"},{"start":7716.618,"end":7739.046,"text":"第十一條外送員依勞工職業災害保險及保護法第十條規定或經由其所屬職業工會辦理參加勞工職業災害保險者 可減付繳費證明向外送平台業者申請支付自行負擔保險費外送平台業者不得拒絕外送員同時與二個以上外送平台業者提供外送服務者僅得向其中一業者申請前項給付"},{"start":7740.506,"end":7769.404,"text":"委員 劉建國等16人提案第12條外送員依勞工職業災害保險及保護法第7條或第10條規定由其所屬職業工會或由本人辦理參加勞工職業災害保險者得減負繳費證明向外送平台業者申請支付其自行負擔之保險費外送平台業者不得拒絕外送員同時於二個以上品同時於二個以上外送平台提供外送服務僅得擇依申請委員 劉建國等16人提案第三章外送平台管理"},{"start":7772.116,"end":7800.083,"text":"民進黨黨團委員委員范雲等十六人委員郭玉琴等十六人委員林楚瑩等二十三人委員賴瑞榮等十八人委員王振旭等二十三人委員黃婕等十六人提案第四條交通主管機關對於外送平台業者與消費者間重要權利義務事項應依消費者保護法擬定其定型化契約應記載或不得記載事項報請行政院核定後公告之委員林月琴等十八人提案第四條第一項與民進黨黨團提案同第二項如下"},{"start":7800.783,"end":7826.334,"text":"前項定型化契約範本應包括商品內容及價格運費收取收退費機制爭議處理機制食品安全及其他有關消費者權益之事項委員劉建國等十六人提案第十三條交通主管機關對於外送平台業者與消費者兼重要權利義務事項應依消費者保護法擬定其定型化契約應記載及不得記載事項報請行政院核定後公告之"},{"start":7828.258,"end":7849.471,"text":"委員紅夢卡等21人委員張家俊等16人委員羅廷威等20人委員劉建國等17人委員林千祺等21人提案第12條外送合作契約應記載下列事項一外送平台業者收取之各項費用金額或比例二外送平台業者提供之設備及其維護修繕方式及費用三外送平台業者之客服聯絡方式應至少記載電話電子郵件"},{"start":7851.312,"end":7875.747,"text":"四 貨款或服務給付時間及給付方式五 爭議款項處理機制六 合作商家負責人變更之處理機制七 同意消費者之同意訂單經取消貨訂單內容毀損經外送平台業者要求再次給付相同訂單內容之貨款處理機制前條及前項規定於外送平台業者對於合作商家之平台業務招攬行為準用之"},{"start":7876.627,"end":7904.478,"text":"委員楊聰英等十九人提案第十三條與委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案第十二條同民進黨黨團委員林月清等十八人委員范雲等十六人委員林楚英等二十三人委員賴銳龍等十八人委員李坤臣等李坤臣等二十一人委員王振旭等二十三人委員黃潔等十六人提案第五條經濟主管機關對於外送平台業者與合作商家成立外送合作契約之重要權利義務事項應理定契約範本並公告之"},{"start":7904.998,"end":7922.49,"text":"前項契約範本應包括商品提供及價格運費收取貨款給付爭議處理機制食品安全及其他有關合作商家權益之事項外送平台業者應與外送合作契約成立後七日內提供書面或電子契約與合作商家收值"},{"start":7924.269,"end":7945.358,"text":"委員郭玉琴等十六人提案第五條第一項及第二項如下經濟主管機關因擬定外送平台業者與合作商家外送合作契約之範本並公告之前項契約範本應包括商品與價格運費收取貨款起付爭議處理機制食品安全及其他合作商家權益相關事項與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":7948.123,"end":7956.329,"text":"委員羅志強等19人提案第8條與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第12條第一項同委員廖偉祥等25人提案"},{"start":7958.427,"end":7978.531,"text":"第五條經濟主管機關應就外送平台業者與合作商家及消費者間成立契約之重要權利義務事項擬定契約範本並予公告外送平台業者與消費者間之外送消費契約之範本應依消費者保護法之規定定定為定型化契約並報請行政院公告"},{"start":7979.111,"end":8006.815,"text":"第一項外送平台業者與合作商家之外送合作商家契約範本應包括下列事項一商品提供及價格二運費收取方式及標準三貨款給付及方式四爭議處理機制五食品安全事項六其他有關合作商家權益之事項外送平台業者應於契約成立後七日內提供書面或電子契約與所合作商家收值委員劉建國等十六人提案第十四條第二項如下"},{"start":8009.096,"end":8027.362,"text":"前項契約範本應包括商品提供及價格收取服務及運送費用金額或比例貨款結算與支付方式食品安全與衛生管理爭議處理機制契約期間與終止條件及其他有關合作商家權益之事項予以民進黨黨團提案第五條同"},{"start":8028.722,"end":8045.679,"text":"台湾民众党党团委员王玉米等16人委员王宏威等20人委员徐宇珍等23人委员卢新义等16人委员杨冲英等19人提案第十条外送平台业者与政府机关因天然灾害宣布全日停止上班时应停止营业通知外送员"},{"start":8046.4,"end":8064.388,"text":"民進黨黨團委員林月琴等18人委員顧玉琴等16人委員林楚英等23人委員賴瑞榮等18人委員李昆城等21人委員黃潔等16人提案第13條外送平台業者與政府機關因天然災害宣布停止上班時應停止營業並通知合作商家及外送員"},{"start":8066.009,"end":8091.747,"text":"委員萬美玲等十六人提案第十六條第一項序文第二句為應停止營業予以臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第十四條同委員黃建豪等十七人提案第十四條外送平臺業者與政府機關因天然災害宣布停止上班之期間及區域應停止從事外送服務但通知並通知外送員但有正當理由任務顯著或可預見風險者不在此限"},{"start":8093.28,"end":8117.998,"text":"委員范雲等16人提案第13條天然災害發生時經外送員工作所在地居住地區正常外送必經地區之轄區首長發布停止上班或確實因災害導致出勤有困難者外送平臺業者不得要求外送員出勤於前項情形外送平臺業者不不得扣發報酬亦不得限制暫停或終止外送員帳戶"},{"start":8120.393,"end":8141.71,"text":"委員王振旭等23人提案第13條第一項與民進黨黨團提案第13條同第二項如下外送平台業者於因天然災害致使外送員繼續外送服務有發生危險之餘時應即採取足以保障外送員安全之必要措施委員許巧欣等17人提案第14條外送平台業者"},{"start":8142.43,"end":8170.896,"text":"與政府機關因天然災害宣布停止上班這期間及區域應停止從事外送服務並通知外送員但有正當理由任務顯著或可預見風險者不在此限委員羅志強等19人提案第19條與台灣民眾黨黨團提案第14條同委員廖偉祥等25人提案第15條第一項與民進黨黨團提案第13條第一項同第二項如下"},{"start":8172.273,"end":8196.093,"text":"前項停止營業之範圍應參照政府公佈之停止範圍並不得跨區營業委員劉建國等16人提案第15條外送平台業者與政府機關應天然災害宣布停止上班之地區應停止營業並通知合作商家及外送員委員廖偉祥等25人提案第5章資訊安全與資料保存"},{"start":8197.819,"end":8216.374,"text":"委員何孟楷等21人委員劉建國等17人委員林建啟等21人委員張家俊等16人提案第10條外送平台業者應確保其程式之資訊安全及系統穩定度並應遵循個人資料保護法之相關規定以保障消費者合作商家及外送員權益委員羅廷輝等20人提案第10條"},{"start":8217.395,"end":8241.323,"text":"委員楊瓊英等十九人提案第十一條 第二句為 應遵循個人資料保護法之相關規定 予以委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案第十條同 民進黨黨團委員林楚瑩等二十三人 委員李昆成等二十一人 委員黃潔等十六人提案第十五條 第一項首句文字台為繁字台 予以委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案第十條同 第二項如下"},{"start":8242.663,"end":8257.454,"text":"交通主管機關得依個人資料保護法規定要求外送平台業者訂定個人資料檔案安全維護計畫委員林月琴等18人提案第15條第一項第二句如下並應遵循個人資料保護法之相關規定與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":8259.778,"end":8278.434,"text":"委員范雲等16人提案第15條外送平台業者應對外送員揭示其透過電子方式監控監督或評估外送員工作之自動化監控系統之事實與使用情形以及經由該自動化監控系統對於外送員之資料所為之蒐集處理或利用的具體內容"},{"start":8279.855,"end":8303.466,"text":"外送平台業者不得透過應用程式收集與外送員工作無關聯且非履行外送服務契約所絕對必要的個人資料包括非外送服務期間之私人對話資料外送員之位置或非公開活動資料外送員的健康與心理或情緒狀態資料以及外送員未同意提供或執行外送平台工作時的任何資料等"},{"start":8305.069,"end":8322.907,"text":"委員郭玉琴等16人提案第15條外送平台業者應確保程式之資訊安全與系統穩定並遵循個人資料保護法相關規定以保障消費者合作商家及外送員權益交通主管機關得依個人資料保護法要求外送平台業者訂定個人資料檔案安全維護計畫"},{"start":8324.708,"end":8346.107,"text":"委員賴瑞榮等18人提案第15條第一項及第二項與民進黨黨團提案同第三項如下外送平台業者應揭露派單評價及停權之自動化管理原則並不得蒐集與外送服務無關之個人資料委員王正旭等23人提案第15條第一項及第二項與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":8348.249,"end":8367.4,"text":"第三項如下外送平台業者應對外送員皆視其演算法管理包括透過電子方式監控監督或評估外送員工作之自動化監控系統之事實與使用情形以及盡有該自動化監測監控系統對於外送員之資料所為之蒐集處理或利用的具體內容"},{"start":8369.198,"end":8389.303,"text":"委員廖偉祥等二十五人提案第十八條外送平台業者應確保其程式之資訊安全及系統穩定並依個人資料保護法規定保障消費者合作商家及外送員之權益數位發展主管機關得依個人資料保護法規定要求外送平台業者訂定個人資料檔案安全維護計畫"},{"start":8390.683,"end":8417.019,"text":"委員劉建國等16人提案第16條外送平台業者應遵循個人資料保護法之相關規定確保其程式之資訊安全及系統穩定度以保障消費者合作商家及外送員權益委員黃婕等16人提案第16條外送平台業者應對外送員及中央主管機關揭示其透過演算法監測監控控制或評估外送員工作之資料及行為之事實"},{"start":8418.837,"end":8443.146,"text":"目的及運用情形外送平台業者以演算法處理外送員之勞動權益及報酬應基於公平性原則不得產生歧視或不平等待遇中央主管機關得要求外送平台業者說明及驗證前項演算法外送平台業者不得拒絕前三項演算法之應揭示內容決策過程及說明與驗證方式由中央主管機關會同數位發展主管機關定之"},{"start":8443.846,"end":8453.174,"text":"委員劉建國等16人提案第17條外送平台業者應定期向中央主管機關提供外送員人數外送服務期間上限期間及報酬等相關資訊"},{"start":8455.515,"end":8484.973,"text":"委員侯孟凱等二十一人委員張家俊等十六人委員徐玉珍等二十三人委員劉建國等十七人委員林切奇等二十一人提案第十六條下列各款紀錄外送平台業者應至少保存二年並提供有關機關調閱不得拒絕一消費者訂購食品商品或服務之時間及內容五二食品商品或服務之價格服務費或運費三消費者取消訂單之退費機制四外送平台業者的取消訂單之事由及退費機制五食品商品"},{"start":8485.353,"end":8512.249,"text":"服務給付遲延給付之種類或數量與訂單不符有瑕疵或損壞之處理方式收退費用及補償措施六 消費者與外送平台業者兼之契約七 客戶服務投訴處理紀錄八 其他與前七款有關之紀錄前項第一款至第六款外送平台業者應向消費者明確揭示並應建立客戶服務機制台灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉明等16人委員王宏威等20人提案第五條"},{"start":8513.169,"end":8540.226,"text":"以下各款電池記錄外送平台業者至少應保存一年供有關機關調閱一 消費者訂購商品之時間及內容二 廠商接受訂單之時間及內容三 外送員提供外送服務之時間地點及內容四 消費者之付款記錄五 消費者與客服人員之對話記錄委員羅廷偉等二十人提案第十六條第一項序文第二句及第三句如下外送平台業者應至少保存三年提供有關機關調閱委員"},{"start":8542.407,"end":8557.186,"text":"予以委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案同委員楊聰英等十九人提案第十七條第二項如下前項第一款至第六款外送平台業者應向消費者明確揭示應建立客戶服務機制予以委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案第十六條同"},{"start":8560.1,"end":8581.79,"text":"民進黨黨團委員林月琴等18人委員范雲等16人委員賴銳榮等18人委員李坤城等21人委員王真旭等23人提案第16條下列各款紀錄外送平台業者應至少保存二年一消費者訂購商品之時間及內容物二商品之價格服務費或運費第三七八款與委員洪孟凱等21人提案同"},{"start":8583.531,"end":8600.043,"text":"第四至第六款如下四 外送平台業者得取消訂單之事有及退費機制五 商品及副持員及副之種類或數量與訂單不符有瑕疵或損壞之處理方式收退費用及補償措施六 消費者與外送平台業者兼之契約"},{"start":8600.943,"end":8626.81,"text":"第二項及第三項如下前項第一款至第六款外送平台業者應對消費者明確揭示並應建立客戶服務機制有關機關得要求調閱第一項各款紀錄外送平台業者不得拒絕委員萬美玲等16人提案第七條序文第二句為外送平台業者至少應保存二年第四及第六款如下四商品給付時間及消費者給付紀錄六其他與前五款相關之內容"},{"start":8628.391,"end":8640.047,"text":"與臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第五條同委員黃建豪等17人提案委員瞿喬欣等17人提案第五條與委員王玉銘等16人提案第五條續文及第一至第四款同"},{"start":8642.782,"end":8668.129,"text":"委員郭玉琴等十六人提案第十六條第一項序文如下外送平台業者應保存下列紀錄期限不得少於二年第二五七款如下二商品價格服務費或運費五商品及副持也內容不符有瑕自貨損壞之處理方式費用及補償措施七克服與投訴處理紀錄與民進黨黨團提案同委員林楚英等二十三人提案第十六條第三項如下"},{"start":8668.829,"end":8695.889,"text":"有關機關的要求調閱第一項各款紀錄除有妨害營業秘密等正當理由外外送平台業者不得拒絕予以民進黨黨團提案同委員羅志強等19人提案第九條第一項序文如下以下各款電池紀錄外送平台業者至少應保存兩年第一三五款與台灣民眾黨黨團提案第五項的一三五款同第二及第四款以及第六至第九款如下"},{"start":8696.71,"end":8719.215,"text":"二 合作商家接受訂單及提供食品或商品之時間及內容四 消費者之付款與退費紀錄六 合作商家與平台之客戶服務或爭議之處理紀錄七 外送員與平台之申訴處理紀錄八 貸款之處理之計算方式及給付時間九 其他與前七項有關之紀錄有關機關的要求調閱前項各款紀錄外送平台業者不得拒絕"},{"start":8719.955,"end":8742.995,"text":"委員盧憲義等十六人提案第五條第六 七款如下六 外送員報酬清澈七 終止契約或其他方式對外送員為不利之決定予以委員王玉明等十六人提案同委員廖偉祥等二十五人提案第十九條外送平台業者應保存下列與消費者交易有關之紀錄保存時間不得低於二年一 消費者訂購商品之時間及品名"},{"start":8744.196,"end":8764.143,"text":"第二 三 四 六 八款與民進黨黨團提案第十六條二 三 四 六 八款同第五及第七款如下五 商品及付遲延及付總額或數量與訂單不符有瑕疵或損壞之處理方式收退費用及補償措施七 客戶服務及投訴處理紀錄"},{"start":8765.803,"end":8781.748,"text":"前項第一款至第六款外送平台業者應對消費者明確揭示並建立客戶服務機制有關機關得依職權要求調閱第一項各款紀錄外送平台業者不得拒絕委員黃潔等十六人提案第十七條與民進黨團提案第十六條同"},{"start":8782.668,"end":8799.088,"text":"委員劉建國等十六人提案第十八條第一項序文如下外送平台業者應保存下列各款與消費者有關之紀錄至少二年第三四五七款如下三消費者取消訂單之退費情形四外送平台業者取消訂單之適由及退費情形"},{"start":8799.628,"end":8822.647,"text":"五 商品有給付遲延給付這種類貨數量與訂單不符有瑕疵或損壞時外送平台業者之處理方式收退費用及補償措施七 客戶服務及投訴處理紀錄第一項其餘內容與民進黨黨團提案第十六條第一項同第二項如下有關機關的要求調閱前項各款紀錄外送平台業者不得拒絕"},{"start":8824.554,"end":8850.8,"text":"委員侯孟凱等21人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人委員林倩琦等21人提案第17條下列各款紀錄外送平台業者應至少保存二年並提供有關機關及合作商家調閱不得拒絕一 外送合作契約二 平台業務招攬行為及其執行紀錄三 合作商家接受訂單及提供食品商品或服務之時間及內容四 與合作商家兼職客戶服務或爭議之處理紀錄"},{"start":8852.1,"end":8881.284,"text":"五 貸款資計算方設計給付時間六 其他與前五款有關資紀錄委員羅廷威等二十人提案第十七條續文第二及第三句如下外送平台業者應至少保存三年提供有關機關及合作商家調閱予以委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案同委員楊瓊英等十九人提案第十八條續文第三句如下提供有關機關及合作商家調閱予以委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案第十七條同"},{"start":8883.786,"end":8896.507,"text":"民進黨黨團委員林月琴等十八人委員范雲等十六人委員賴瑞榮等十八人委員李昆城等二十一人委員王振旭等二十三人提案第十七條下列各款紀錄外送平台業者應至少保存二年一外送合作契約"},{"start":8898.379,"end":8919.091,"text":"二 平台業務招攬行為及其執行紀錄三 合作商家接受訂單及提供商品之時間及內容四 其與合作商家兼職客戶服務或爭議之處理紀錄五 貸款之計算方式及給付時間六 其他與前五款有關之紀錄有關機關得要求調閱前項各款紀錄外送平台業者不得拒絕"},{"start":8921.658,"end":8949.162,"text":"委員郭玉琴等十六人提案第十七條第一項序文如下外送平台業者應保存下列與合作商家相關之紀錄期限不得少於二年第三款如下三合作商家接受訂單及提供商品之實踐與內容予以民進黨黨團提案同委員林楚英等二十三人提案第十七條第二項如下有關機關的要求調閱前項各款紀錄除有妨害營業秘密等正當理由外外送平台業者不得拒絕予以民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":8950.566,"end":8970.457,"text":"委員廖偉祥等二十五人提案第二十條外送平台業者應保存下列與合作商家交易及合作有關的紀錄保存時間不得低於二年一外送合作商家契約二平台業務招攬行為及其執行紀錄三合作商家接受訂單及提供商品之時間及內容四合作商家之客戶服務"},{"start":8971.778,"end":8998.914,"text":"或爭議處理紀錄 五 貸款計算方式及給付時間 六 其他與前五款相關之紀錄有關機關得依職權要求調閱前項各款紀錄外送平臺業者不得拒絕 委員黃潔等16人提案第18條與民進黨黨團提案第17條同 委員劉建國等16人提案第19條 第一項序文如下外送平臺業者應保存下列各款與合作商家有關之紀錄至少二年與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":9000.956,"end":9018.959,"text":"委員侯孟楷等21人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人委員林倩琦等21人提案第18條下列各款紀錄外送平台業者應至少保存5年並提供有關機關及外送員調閱不得拒絕一外送服務契約二外送服務期間三第15條第一項第一款至第三款"},{"start":9019.56,"end":9043.291,"text":"委員羅廷威等二十人提案第十八條 續文第三句為提供有關機關及外送員調閱予以委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案同委員楊從英等十九人提案第十九條 續文第三句如下提供有關機關及外送員調閱第三款如下三 第十六條第一項第一款至第三款予以委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案第十八條同"},{"start":9044.301,"end":9070.379,"text":"民進黨黨團委員泰雲等16人委員李昆城等21人委員王真旭等23人提案第18條下列各款紀錄外送平台業者應至少保存5年1.外送服務契約2.外送服務期間3.外送員上線期間4.第9條第4項所定之外送員報酬清澈5.停權1.第7條規定終止外送服務契約及以演算法或其他方式對外送員為不利之決定6.其他外送服務契約終止情勢"},{"start":9071.5,"end":9094.201,"text":"有關機關的要求調閱前項各款紀錄外送平台業者不得拒絕委員您願請得十八人提案第十八條第一項第五六七款如下五第十條第一項各款之申訴事項六一第七條規定終止外送服務契約即以演算法或其他方式對外送員為不利之決定其他外送服務契約終止情勢予以民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":9097.389,"end":9125.644,"text":"委員郭玉琴等十六人提案第十八條第一項序文如下外送平台業者應保存下列與外送員相關之紀錄期限不得少於五年第五六款如下五 停權依第七條規定終止契約即以演算法或其他方式對外送員為不利之決定六 其他外送服務契約終止相關紀錄予與民進黨黨團提案同委員林楚英等二十三人提案第十八條第二項同"},{"start":9126.721,"end":9145.737,"text":"第十七條的第二項予以民進黨黨團提案同委員賴瑞榮等十八人提案第十八條第一項第五六七款如下五對外送員停權或其他不利之決定六一第七條規定終止外送服務契約七其他外送服務契約終止請示予以民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":9146.377,"end":9163.723,"text":"委員廖偉祥等二十五人提案第二十一條外送平台業者應保存下列與外送員服務有關之紀錄保存期間不得低於五年第一至第三款以及第六款與民進黨黨團提案第十八條同的第四及第五款如下"},{"start":9164.503,"end":9193.723,"text":"四 外送員報酬獎金與其他費用清測五 停權一 第六條規定終止外送服務契約或其他對外送員不利之決定第二項如下 主管機關得益職權要求調閱前項各款紀錄外送平台業者不得拒絕委員黃婕等16人提案第19條與民進黨黨團提案第18條同委員劉建國等16人提案第20條第一項序文如下外送平台業者應保存下列各款與外送員有關之紀錄至少二年"},{"start":9195.243,"end":9216.974,"text":"第三款如下 三上限期間第四及第五款與民進黨黨團提案第十八條第五六款相同第六則及第七款如下六 第二十二條規定之外第二十二條規定之外送原教育訓練紀錄七其他與前六款有關這紀錄與民進黨黨團提案第十八條同"},{"start":9218.055,"end":9236.85,"text":"委員何孟凱等21人委員羅廷威等20人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等16人提案第20條外送源於外送服務期間發生下列職業災害之一者外送平台業者應於8小時內通報勞動部職業安全署所屬之勞動檢查機構一死亡二道路交通事故"},{"start":9238.071,"end":9264.614,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉明等16人委員王宏威等20人委員黃振豪等17人委員徐宇珍等23人委員徐巧欣等17人委員盧憲義等16人提案第15條序文莫具為外送平台業者應於8小時內通報勞動部職業安全衛生署所屬之勞動檢查機構與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第20條同委員楊聰英等19人提案第21條與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第20條同"},{"start":9266.843,"end":9294.841,"text":"民進黨黨團委員范雲等16人 委員林楚英等23人 委員賴瑞榮等18人委員李昆城等21人 委員王振旭等23人提案第19條外送源於外送服務期間發生下列職業災害之一者外送平台業者應於8小時內通報當地勞動檢查機構並於事後實施事故調查分析及做成記錄一發生死亡災害二發生災害之離災人數在一人以上且需住院住院治療"},{"start":9295.521,"end":9324.528,"text":"委員外媒林的十六人提案第十八條 外送源於外送服務期間發生下列職業災害之一者外送平台業者應於八小時內通報勞動檢查機構一 死亡災害二 災害之罹災人數三人以上三 災害之罹災人數一人以上且需住院治療委員林月琴的十八人提案第十九條第二及第三款如下二 發生災害之罹災人數在三人以上三 發生災害之罹災人數在一人以上且需住院治療"},{"start":9325.449,"end":9326.493,"text":"與民進黨黨團提案同委員黃潔等16人提案"},{"start":9333.564,"end":9357.05,"text":"委員羅志強等19人提案第20條與台灣民眾黨黨團提案第15條同委員廖偉祥等25人提案第14條外送源於外送服務期間發生下列職業災害之一者外送平台業者因與知悉或可得而知該情勢之時起8小時內通報當地勞動檢查機構並於事後實施事故調查分析及做成記錄"},{"start":9357.97,"end":9366.582,"text":"一 發生死亡災害二 發生災害之離災人數在一人以上且需住院治療委員黃婕等16人提案第20條委員劉建國等16人提案第21條與民進黨黨團提案第19條同"},{"start":9373.584,"end":9395.577,"text":"委員何孟凱等21人委員張家俊等16人委員劉金國等17人提案第21條外送平臺業者對新加入之外送員應提供至少4小時實體之職業安全交通安全及食品衛生安全教育訓練課程對已完成前項教育訓練課程之從業外送員每年應至少提供2小時之實體或線上之教育訓練課程"},{"start":9398.076,"end":9424.919,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第16條與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第21條同委員羅廷輝等20人提案第21條前段如下外送平台業者對新進外送員應提供至少4小時實體之職業安全交通安全及食品安全衛生教育訓練課程與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第21條同委員王玉敏等16人委員王宏威等20人委員徐玉珍等23人提案第16條後段如下"},{"start":9425.619,"end":9435.142,"text":"對已完成前述教育訓練課程之從業外送員每年應至少提供2小時之實體或線上之教育訓練課程與台灣民眾黨黨團提案第16條同委員楊聰英等19人提案第22條與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第21條同"},{"start":9443.612,"end":9471.44,"text":"民進黨黨團委員范雲等十六人 委員林楚瑩等二十三人 委員賴瑞榮等十八人 委員李昆城等二十一人 委員王真旭等二十三人 提案第二十條外送平臺業者對新加入之外送員應提供一定時數之交通安全 職業安全 食品衛生安全及其他必要之教育訓練 外送平臺業者每年應要求提供外送服務之外送員至少完成一定時數之教育訓練前二項教育訓練之一定時數 內容及實施方式等有關事項"},{"start":9471.96,"end":9495.959,"text":"由中央主管機關交通主管機關及衛生福利主管機關分別定之委員萬美玲的十六人提案第十七條外送平台業者對新加入之外送員應於提供外送服務前施以至少四小時之職業安全交通安全及食品衛生安全教育訓練課程對已完成前項教育訓練課程之從業外送員每年應至少應提供二小時之線上之教育訓練課程"},{"start":9497.02,"end":9521.812,"text":"外送平台業者不得向外送員收取前向教育訓練費用或以提供教育訓練為由與外送員為最低服務期限之約定委員黃建豪等17人委員徐曉新徐曉新等17人提案第16條外送平台業者對新加入之外送員應與其提供外送服務前是以職業安全食品衛生安全及交通安全教育訓練課程各一小時以上"},{"start":9522.532,"end":9550.515,"text":"對已完成前數教育訓練課程之從業外送員每年應至少提供一次在職教育訓練委員林月琴等18人提案第20條外送平台業者對新加入之外送員應施以下列教育訓練一 一小時以上職業安全訓練二 一小時以上交通安全訓練三 一小時以上食品衛生安全訓練四 其他金主管機關公告或必要之訓練外送平台業者對已完成前項教育訓練之從業外送員"},{"start":9552.148,"end":9576.773,"text":"每年應要求外送員至少完成一定時數之教育訓練並應包含至少一小時之交通安全課程外送員已在其他平台業者接受前二項之教育訓練得免實施之外送平台業者不得向外送員收取第一項及第二項教育訓練費用或以提供教育訓練為由與外送員為最低服務期限之約定"},{"start":9577.253,"end":9603.366,"text":"第一項及第二項教育訓練課程之內容及實施方式等有關事項由中央主管機關交通主管機關及衛生福利主管機關分別定之委員郭玉琴等十六人提案第二十條第二項如下外送平台業者每年應要求提供外送服務之外送員完成一定時數之持續教育訓練第三項守據為前二項教育訓練之時數與與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":9605.547,"end":9630.734,"text":"委員林倩琪等21人提案第21條文字外送員為外送人員第二句為應提供至少6小時實體之職業安全與委員洪孟凱等21人提案同委員羅志強等19人提案第21條與臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第16條同委員盧憲義等16人提案第16條第一項與委員王玉銘等16人提案第16條同第二項如下"},{"start":9633.226,"end":9661.775,"text":"如外送地區為原住民族地區而外送員為原住民時外送平台業者於訂定教育訓練課程時應考量原住民族之文化語言及地區差異性提供多元化符合原住民族需求之教育訓練或教材委員廖偉祥等二十五人提案第十二條第一項與民進黨黨團提案第二十條第一項同第二項及第三項如下外送平台業者每年對"},{"start":9663.055,"end":9682.233,"text":"提供外送服務之外送員應要求其至少完成一定時數之教育訓練前二項教育訓練之一定時數內容及實施方式等事項由中央主管機關交通主管機關及衛生福利主管機關共同定之其總時數不得低於4小時委員黃潔等16人提案第21條與民進黨黨團提案第20條同"},{"start":9686.436,"end":9703.647,"text":"委員劉建國等16人提案第22條第一項如下外送平台業者對新加入之外送員應提供一定時數之職業安全衛生交通安全食品衛生安全及其他必要之教育訓練第三項第二句為內容等有關事項予以民進黨黨團提案第20條同"},{"start":9707.918,"end":9736.095,"text":"委員侯孟楷等21人 委員羅廷瑋等20人委員張家俊等16人 委員劉建國等17人委員林倩琦等21人提案第22條外送員提供外送服務時發生道路交通事故致人於死或重傷 經鑑定同為造勢原因或為造勢主因者應於三個月內完成48小時道路交通安全講習未於期限內完成者外送平台業者應停止指派其提供外送服務"},{"start":9737.476,"end":9760.714,"text":"臺灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉敏等16人委員王宏威等20人委員黃建豪等17人委員徐巧欣等17人提案第12條第三據如下且經鑑定同為肇事原因或為肇事主因者與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第22條同委員楊崇英等19人提案第23條與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第22條同"},{"start":9762.628,"end":9788.364,"text":"民進黨黨團委員范雲等16人委員林楚英等23人委員賴瑞榮等18人委員李昆城等21人委員王正旭等23人提案第21條外送員於提供外送服務時因違反交通主管機關認定有重大影響交通安全之行為時外送平台業者應依通知改善期內完成實施外送員運送安全講習於完成講習前外送平台業者不得使其提供外送服務"},{"start":9789.604,"end":9815.707,"text":"委員外媒林的十六人提案第十九條外送源於提供外送服務時發生道路交通事故致人於死或重傷且經鑑定同為肇事原因或為肇事主因者應於兩個月內完成道路交通安全講習位於期限內完成者外送平台業者應停止指派其提供外送服務前向道路安全前向道路交通安全講習之內容時機時數執行單位等由交通部會同內政部定之"},{"start":9816.408,"end":9835.447,"text":"委員林月琴等18人提案第21條外送源於提供外送服務時發生道路交通事故致人於死或重傷且經鑑定同為肇事原因或為肇事主因者或因違反交通有關法令規定應接受道路交通安全講習者於完成講習前外送平台業者不得使其提供外送服務"},{"start":9837.321,"end":9866.621,"text":"委員徐宇珍等23人提案第12條第二句為發生道路交通重大事故文字48小時為72小時與台灣民眾黨黨團提案同委員郭玉琴等16人提案第21條外送員於提供外送服務時若有交通主管機關認定之重大影響交通安全行為外送平台業者應於通知改善期限內完成外送員運送安全講習與講習完成前外送平台業者不得使其提供外送服務"},{"start":9867.541,"end":9886.602,"text":"委員羅志強等十九人提案第十七條與台灣民眾黨黨團提案第十二條同委員盧憲義等十六人提案第十二條第二句為發生道路交通重大事故第四句為應於三個月內完成七十二小時道路交通安全講習與委員王玉敏等十六人提案同"},{"start":9888.584,"end":9904.006,"text":"委員廖維鄉等二十五人提案第十三條外送源於提供外送服務時若違反交通主管機關認定之重大影響交通安全之行為外送平台業者應暫停其提供外送服務外送平台業者應依前項通知"},{"start":9904.967,"end":9926.52,"text":"與改善期內完成對該外送員之運送安全講習與完成講習前外送平台業者不得使其提供外送服務安全講習應於三個月內完成且總時數不得低於48小時未於期限內完成者任意外送平台業者應停止指派其提供外送服務委員黃婕等16人提案第22條"},{"start":9928.141,"end":9932.225,"text":"委員劉建國等16人提案第23條與民進黨黨團提案第21條同委員廖偉祥等25人提案第6章罰則委員劉建國等16人提案第4章罰則"},{"start":9941.716,"end":9962.887,"text":"台灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉敏等十六人委員徐宇貞等二十三人委員盧憲一等十六人提案第十八條外送平台業者有違反第八條第十四條之規定者儲新台幣六萬元以上三十萬元以下發還委員王宏威等二十人委員黃建豪等十七人委員徐巧欣等十七人提案第十九條與台灣民眾黨黨團提案第十八條同"},{"start":9964.008,"end":9992.687,"text":"民進黨黨團委員范雲等16人委員林楚英等23人委員賴瑞榮等18人委員李昆成等21人提案第22條外送平台業者違反第12條第13條規定者由直轄市縣市主管機關處刑台幣10萬元以上50萬元以下罰還外送平台業者違反第21條規定者由交通主管機關處刑台幣10萬元以上50萬元以下罰還外送平台業者拒絕規避或妨礙主管機關目的事業主管機關監督檢查及調閱紀錄者"},{"start":9994.228,"end":10017.678,"text":"儲新台幣3萬元以上15萬元以下罰還外送平台業者有下列情形之一者主管機關或目的事業主管機關儲新台幣2萬元以上10萬元以下罰還1違反第8條第3項第9條第2項至第4項第10條第20條第1項或第2項規定2違反第6條第5項第11條第2項第14條第1項第18條第1項規定經通知限期改善 借期未改善"},{"start":10018.298,"end":10042.807,"text":"外送平台業者違反第五條第三項第十六條第一項第十七條第一項規定者經通知限期改善 借期未改善由目的事業主管機關處心台幣二萬元以上十萬元以下罰還外送平台業者違反第十一條第一項或第十九條規定依職業安全衛生法相關規定處罰外送平台業者違反本法經處以罰還者主管機關或目的事業主管機關應公佈其名稱"},{"start":10043.727,"end":10057.852,"text":"負責人姓名處分日期違反條文及發還金額並限期令其改善 借其未改善者按次處罰委員外 美尼德16人提案第22條外送平台業者有違反第16條之規定者處心台幣10萬元以上50萬元以下發還"},{"start":10059.833,"end":10081.544,"text":"外送平台業者有違反第十六條規定且外送源於執行外送服務過程中死亡者儲新台幣二十萬元以上一百萬元以下罰還委員林月琴的十八人提案第二十二條第四項第一款如下一違反第八條第三項第九條第二項至第四項第十條第二十條第一項第二項或第四項第七項莫具為因案次處罰與民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":10086.311,"end":10113.836,"text":"委員郭玉琴等16人提案第23條第三項如下外送平台業者拒絕規避或妨礙主管機關或目的事業主管機關監督檢查及調閱記錄者處新台幣3萬元以上15萬元以下罰款予以民進黨黨團提案同委員王真旭等23人提案第22條第一項第二據為第13條第一項及第二項規定者第4項第一款第4據為第15條第三項予以民進黨黨團提案同"},{"start":10114.716,"end":10127.891,"text":"委員羅志強等19人提案第24條第一項莫具前面文字為外送平台業者有違反第14條第15條之規定第二項守據為外送平台業者有違反第19條之規定與臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第19條同"},{"start":10131.975,"end":10149.458,"text":"委員廖維祥等二十五人提案第二十二條第一項首二據如下外送平台業者違反第十六條第十七條規定者第二項首據如下外送平台業者違反第十四條規定者第四項如下外送平台業者有下列情形之一者主管機關或目的是"},{"start":10150.078,"end":10177.562,"text":"或目的事業主管機關處新台幣二萬元以上十萬元以下罰還一違反第七條第三項第八條第九條第一項第十七條第十二條第一項或第二項規定二違反第四條第五項第十條第二項第十一條第一項第二十一條第一項規定經通知限期改善借期未改善第五項前三句如下外送平台業者違反第五條第四項第十九條第一項第二十條第一項規定者第六項首句如下外送平台業者"},{"start":10178.102,"end":10205.267,"text":"違反第十條第一項或第十五條規定與民進黨黨團提案第二十二條同委員黃潔燈十六人提案第二十三條第一項與民進黨黨團提案第二十二條第一項同第二二三四項如下外送平台業者違反第十六條第二項規定者由中央主管機關儲新台幣十萬元以上五十萬元以下罰還外送平台業者違反第二十二條規定者由交通主管機關儲新台幣十萬元以上五十萬元以下罰還"},{"start":10206.167,"end":10221.892,"text":"外送平台業者拒絕規避或妨礙中央主管機關監督及檢查演算法者處新台幣十五萬元以上七十五萬元以下罰款第五項與民進黨黨團提案第二十二條第三項同第六項第一款莫具為"},{"start":10223.331,"end":10244.996,"text":"第二十一條第一項或第二項規定第二款倒數第三據為第十九條第一項規定予以民進黨黨團提案第二十二條第四項同第七及第八項如下外送平台業者違反第五條第三項第十六條第一項第十七條第一項第十八條第一項規定者經通知限期改善屆期未改善由目的事業主管機關處"},{"start":10245.996,"end":10258.883,"text":"新台幣二萬元以上十萬元以下罰還外送平台業者違反第十一條第一項或第二十條規定依職業安全衛生法相關規定處罰第九項與民進黨黨團提案第二十二條第七項同"},{"start":10261.175,"end":10289.272,"text":"委員劉建國等十六年提案第二十四條第一項首二據為外送平台業者違反第十一條第十五條規定者第二項首據為外送平台業者違反第二十三條規定者予與民進黨黨團提案第二十二條第一及第二項同第三項如下外送平台業者違反第二十一條規定由主管機關處新台幣三萬元以上三十萬元以下罰還第四項與民進黨黨團提案第二十二條第三項同第五及第六項如下"},{"start":10290.012,"end":10305.767,"text":"外送平台業者有下列情形之一者由主管機關或目的事業主管機關處新台幣二萬元以上十萬元以下罰還一違反第四條第五項第十二條第一項第十四條第三項第十八條第一項第十九條第一項或第二十條第一項規定經通知限期改善 借期未改善"},{"start":10307.088,"end":10330.642,"text":"2 違反第22條第1項第2項有關交通安全或食品衛生安全教育訓練之規定 經通知限期改善 藉其為改善3 違反第5條第2項至第5項第8條第3項第9條或第10條規定外送平台業者違反第22條第1項第2項有關職業安全衛生教育訓練之規定依職業安全衛生法相關規定處罰委員劉建國等16人提案第25條與民進黨黨團提案第22條第7項同"},{"start":10335.666,"end":10360.286,"text":"委員侯孟楷等二十一人 委員羅廷威等二十人 委員張家俊等十六人 委員林倩琦等二十一人 提案第二十四條外送平台業者違反第十一條 第十六條至第十八條之規定 經通知限期改善 皆其未改善者儲新台幣二萬元以上 十萬元以下罰還外送平台業者違反第十四條 第十五條 第二十條及第二十一條之規定儲新台幣二萬元以上 十萬元以下罰還"},{"start":10361.207,"end":10387.785,"text":"外送平臺業者拒絕規避或妨礙中央主管機關監督者儲新臺幣三萬元以上十五萬元以下罰還臺灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉敏等十六人委員許宇貞等二十三人委員許曉清委員許巧欣等十七人委員盧憲一等十六人提案第十七條外送平臺業者有違反第四條之第六條及第十三條之規定經通知限期改善藉其為改善者儲新臺幣二萬元以上十萬元以下罰還"},{"start":10388.806,"end":10407.843,"text":"外送平台業者有違反第7條第12條第15條及第16條之規定者處心台幣2萬元以上10萬元以下罰還外送平台業者有拒絕規避或妨礙中央主管機關監督者處心台幣3萬元以上15萬元以下罰還委員楊崇英等19人提案第25條第一項首二舉如下"},{"start":10408.283,"end":10424.421,"text":"外送平台業者違反第十二條第十七條之第十九條之規定第二項如下外送平台業者違反第十五條第十六條第二十一條及第二十二條之規定處新台幣二萬元以上十萬元以下罰還予議委員洪孟凱等二十一人提案第二十四條同"},{"start":10427.301,"end":10441.651,"text":"委員外媒林等十六人提案第二十條外送平台業者違反第六條至第十條第十七條至第十九條之規定處新台幣五萬元以上二十五萬元以下罰款並令其限期改善 皆其為改善者按次處罰"},{"start":10442.572,"end":10460.965,"text":"外送平台業者有拒絕規避或妨礙中央主管機關監督者儲新台幣6萬元以上30萬元以下罰還委員黃正豪等17人提案第18條外送平台業者有違反第4條至第6條及第13條之規定經通知限期改善 借其為改善者儲新台幣2萬元以上10萬元以下罰還"},{"start":10461.966,"end":10475.366,"text":"外送平台業者有違反第七條第十二條第十五條及第十六條之規定者處心台幣二萬元以上十萬元以下罰還外送平台業者有拒絕規避或妨礙中央主管機關監督者處心台幣三萬元以上十五萬元以下罰還"},{"start":10477.168,"end":10495.273,"text":"委員劉建國等17人提案第24條第一至第三項罰還額度分別為新台幣5萬元以上50萬元以下新台幣10萬元以上100萬元以下新台幣20萬元以上200萬元以下與委員洪孟凱等21人提案第24條同"},{"start":10497.389,"end":10519.721,"text":"委員 羅志強等十九人提案第二十二條 第一項倒數第三 據知前文字為外送平台業者有違反第六條 第九條 第十條及第十八條之規定第二項 莫具知前面文字為外送平台業者有違反第十一條 第十六條 第十七條 第二十條及第二十一條之規定者 予以臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第十七條同"},{"start":10521.775,"end":10542.303,"text":"委員侯孟楷等21人委員羅廷威等20人委員張家俊等16人委員林倩琦等21人提案第23條外送平臺業者違反第8條第9條第19條第22條之規定處新臺幣10萬元以上50萬元以下罰還臺灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉敏等16人委員徐宇貞等23人委員盧憲義等16人提案第19條"},{"start":10543.363,"end":10566.177,"text":"外送平台業者有違反第十條第十一條之規定儲新台幣十萬元以上五十萬元以下罰還外送平台業者有違反第十四條之規定且外送源於執行外送服務過程中死亡者儲新台幣二十萬元以上一百萬元以下罰還委員王宏威等二十人委員黃建豪等十七人委員徐巧欣等十七人提案第二十條與台灣民眾黨黨團提案第十九條同"},{"start":10569.379,"end":10584.488,"text":"委員楊瓊英等19人提案第24條外送平台業者違反第8條第9條第20條第23條之規定儲新台幣10萬元以上50萬元以下罰還外送平台業者違反第10條規定儲新台幣6萬元以上30萬元以下罰還"},{"start":10586.519,"end":10610.158,"text":"委員萬美玲等16人提案第21條外送平台業者有違反第12條至第15條之規定儲新台幣6萬元以上30萬元以下罰還並令其限期改善藉其未改善者按次處罰委員劉建國等17人提案第23條莫具為儲新台幣5萬元以上50萬元以下罰還予以委員洪孟凱等21人提案第23條同"},{"start":10611.779,"end":10620.513,"text":"委員羅志強等19人提案第23條外送平台業者有違反第12條第19條之規定者儲新台幣6萬元以上30萬元以下罰款"},{"start":10623.171,"end":10649.984,"text":"委員劉建國等十六人提案第五章負責民進黨黨團委員林月琴等十八人委員范雲等十六人委員郭玉琴等十六人委員林楚英等二十三人委員李昆城等二十一人委員王真旭等二十三人提案第二十三條外送平台業者將外送服務業務委託與第三人並由其與外送員成立外送服務契約者該第三人適用第六條至第十四條第十八條至第二十一條及其發則規定"},{"start":10651.405,"end":10671.786,"text":"前項第三人與外送員間具有僱傭關係者依第一條第二項但書規定辦理委員賴瑞榮等18人提案第23條第一及第二項與民進黨黨團提案第23條同第三項如下受外送平台業者委託辦理外送服務之第三人應付同等外送員權益保障義務"},{"start":10673.26,"end":10701.712,"text":"委員廖維祥等二十五人提案第二十三條外送平台業者將外送服務業務托與將外送服務業務委托與第三人辦理並由該第三人與外送員成立外送服務契約者該第三人應適用本法第四條第六條至第八條第十條至第十七條第二十一條及其罰則規定第二項與民進黨黨團提案第二十三條第二項同"},{"start":10702.532,"end":10726.46,"text":"委員黃婕等16人提案第24條第1項據莫違第19條至第22條及其罰則規定與民進黨黨團提案同第23與民進黨黨團提案第23條同委員劉建國等16人提案第26條外送平台業者將外送服務業務委託與第三人並由其與外送員成立外送服務契約者"},{"start":10727.14,"end":10730.764,"text":"該第三人士用第4條至第12條第15條至第17條第20條至第23條及其罰則規定第二項與民進黨黨團提案第23條第二項同委員廖維祥等25人提案第7章負責"},{"start":10743.857,"end":10769.089,"text":"民進黨黨團委員林月琴等18人委員范雲等16人委員郭玉琴等16人委員林楚瑩等23人委員賴瑞榮等18人委員王振旭等23人委員廖維祥等25人提案第24條委員黃潔等16人提案第25條委員劉建國等16人提案第27條本法實行細則由中央主管機關會商各中央目的事業主管機關定之"},{"start":10770.049,"end":10788.152,"text":"委員洪孟楷等21人委員羅廷威等20人委員張家俊等16人委員劉建國等17人委員林倩琦等21人委員羅志強等19人提案第25條本法自公佈日施行台灣民眾黨黨團委員王玉敏等16人委員徐宇貞等23人委員盧憲一等16人提案第20條"},{"start":10789.98,"end":10804.096,"text":"委員王宏威等二十人委員黃健豪等十七人委員徐巧欣等十七人提案第二十一條委員楊瓊英等十九人提案第二十六條委員萬美玲等十六人提案第二十三條本法自公佈日施行"},{"start":10805.057,"end":10832.174,"text":"民進黨黨團委員林月琴等18人委員范雲等16人委員郭玉琴等16人委員賴瑞榮等18人委員王振旭等23人委員廖偉翔等25人提案第25條委員黃潔等16人提案第26條委員劉建國等16人提案第28條本法自公布後6個月施行委員林楚英等23人提案第25條本法施行日期由行政院定之宣讀完畢"},{"start":10835.623,"end":10838.105,"text":"好現在休息下午2時30分繼續開會"},{"start":21443.217,"end":21462.193,"text":"好謝謝現在繼續開會進行外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法草案等26案之逐條討論每條條文先請行政單位說明接著請委員表示意見好那現在進行本案的本法案的逐條討論現在討論法案名稱"},{"start":21473.188,"end":21481.832,"text":"現在有26個提案先請勞動部說明"},{"start":21489.111,"end":21516.587,"text":"主席各位委員 有關於本法案的名稱因為本法的立法目的主要是要橫平外送平台的外送員 消費者 合作商家以及外送平台業者之間的權利義務的關係其中又以外送員作為弱勢所以所有委員的版本都大致以保障外送員權益之條文占比較高的比例而且法案之主管機關為勞動部由本部來組織外送員權益的保障事項"},{"start":21517.407,"end":21538.652,"text":"那至於外送的平台管理 涉及到產業交通機關 路路交通部還有其他目的事業主管機關的權責所以我們建議本法的名稱 可否依依我們民進黨團委員林月琴等18位 委員范雲等16位 委員郭玉琴等16人委員賴瑞榮等18人 委員王正旭等23人 委員黃婕等16人"},{"start":21540.732,"end":21553.586,"text":"委員劉建國等16人提案通過那名稱為外送員權益保障及外送拼帶管理法好請各位委員發言沒有意見"},{"start":21574.371,"end":21587.362,"text":"勞動部不好意思本席想要先確認一下因為我們今天因為過去勞動部有布版可是還沒有進來那現在這各位委員提案哪一些是比較跟你們的版本是很接近的你們要不要先大概講一下作為一個對照"},{"start":21590.782,"end":21618.039,"text":"跟各位委員報告我們大概在法案名稱上有幾個考慮因為我們看到有幾個有一些委員的版本他是寫外送從業人員可是其實外送從業人員就會不只是外送員因為你可能包括平台的技術人員可能包括平台的行政人員這都是外送從業人員可是我們在這個法裡面想要最優先來保障的其實是外送員的權益"},{"start":21618.737,"end":21634.863,"text":"所以我前面有些版本大家可以看到是會是寄從業人員權益保障所以這是為什麼我們認為把外送員的權益放到前面因為也包括這是勞動部在做主管的法"},{"start":21635.763,"end":21651.385,"text":"那很多外送平台的管理的层面刚才说可能牵涉到经济部交通部其他的目的世界主管的部会所以我们在建议上面我们的确是建议刚才在讲到林月琴委员范云委员赖瑞龙委员王振旭人黄杰委员跟刘建国委员"},{"start":21651.926,"end":21672.006,"text":"目前看起來大家的法案名稱基本上應該是有寫在現在打在那個螢幕上面就是外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法大概這樣所以我們比較建議用這個用這樣子的名稱包括順序包括就不要再寫從業人員了反而是直接是外送員請問有沒有委員有什麼意見"},{"start":21677.099,"end":21703.333,"text":"如果沒有的話我本席這裡有個意見啦因為本席的提案呢除了從業原本是從業人員當然本席是大家的出發點都是外送員為主嘛但是本席在其實在公聽會過程中還有包括合作商家因為未來現在的確是有一個框架但是可能還沒有足夠的去討論所謂合作商家的部分那本席是在想說是不是有需要把合作商家的這個權益保障也放進去"},{"start":21704.113,"end":21726.062,"text":"好那他稍微長一點可是之所以沒有另外可能就會有人說那怎麼沒有消費者可是因為消費者目前是有消極法是有消費者這是有消極法的部分好所以上次公聽會的時候其實也有很多商家代表那為什麼本席要這樣講呢有一個原因是因為台灣的這些店家餐廳的店家目前被收取的外送費大約是30到35%"},{"start":21727.583,"end":21748.052,"text":"那全球的 我本席看過Uber的財報全球他們CEO自己也講過大概平均其實是15%那當然每一個市場的狀況不同可是我覺得我們是不是也要把這個所謂的合作商家也做一個一個去討論這樣本席提出意見看有沒有其他指教 謝謝"},{"start":21750.709,"end":21774.479,"text":"請那個請副市長委員發言好謝謝主席給我時間我是同意剛剛我們現在打在螢幕上的也就是剛剛深翰部長所說的外送員權益保障及外送平台管理法那剛剛主席有建議說是不是把商家的管理放進來那我是持比較保留的態度大家分享看看第一個就是主跟副然後"},{"start":21776.479,"end":21797.047,"text":"優呃就是先跟後剛剛是因為這是勞動部主管他願意攤起這個責任所以這個法的主體在處理外送員權益保障比較多所以我想這大家有共識外送員權益保障一定是放進來而且我們希望是在優先第二個就是一個新新的經濟型態而在這個新新的經濟型態裡頭"},{"start":21798.988,"end":21823.547,"text":"被需要被輔導協助或是管理的是外送平台是大宗所以也反映在我們條文的相次跟條數的多寡上所以說這個法我們都認同第一個是外送員的權益第二個要納入國家法律的管理協力的是外送平台因為它是新的過去都沒有法律在處理這個"},{"start":21824.347,"end":21841.137,"text":"至於剛剛主席所提到的商家我的看法是因為商家是他是加入這個新的這個外送的新經濟服務的商家但是商家在台灣本身就是相關的法規也好他是就我認為他是比較富"},{"start":21843.038,"end":21857.094,"text":"這是一個新的經濟形式所以新的stakeholder裡頭過去法律秩序比較沒有去關照到的會是外送員本身以及這個新興的平台至於商家就是在我看來是"},{"start":21857.995,"end":21876.585,"text":"可能是會落在條文處理就好而事實上在後續的條文在商家的部分的條文其實是有提到但他不是絕對的主體所以說我是希望說讓這個名稱回到這樣子的主題非常清楚然後優先順序對希望說服大家我是支持這個版本謝謝"},{"start":21878.53,"end":21890.403,"text":"好那請陳昭智委員發言謝謝主席基本上我覺得原來的名詞先就是主席的版本我先放一下就是原來是外送平台管理"},{"start":21892.133,"end":21919.431,"text":"管理 我們是管理他 但是對於這個外送人員他的權益是保障這兩個動詞完全不一樣所以他並不是代表說我們如果先寫了外送平台的管理是把這個是好像優先的要去照顧的 不是永遠就是要保障外送員的部分 所以這個保障是連結在外送員所以當然我可以開放就討論基本上我覺得很多委員會"},{"start":21920.672,"end":21934.868,"text":"包括党团的这个名称原来的意义也是没有违和的没有违和就外送平台管理目的是要管理它即从业人员全益保障法那主席刚刚提到的这个合作商家因为本来这里当中有四方嘛"},{"start":21935.869,"end":21955.995,"text":"當然就是消費者有消費者保護商家那個平台跟外送那如果商家沒有落在裡面其實它也是完全不可忽視的一環有商家才有所謂的delivery才有所謂的外送所以我覺得在商家尤其我們現在有數字Uber Eats在全球它對商家只收取15%的一個手續費"},{"start":21958.756,"end":21981.771,"text":"但是他對台灣的商家 台灣商家大大小小不確然是大企業 賺錢的大企業所以他反而收取了那麼高昂的手續費用所以基本上我也支持如果把合作商家要放就全放目前就是我的觀點是這樣 謝謝好 那先請林月琴委員發言然後等一下請王玉銘委員發言再請羅廷偉委員發言 謝謝"},{"start":21984.284,"end":22004.971,"text":"因為既然主管機關事實上是勞動部那勞動部應該事實上是對於勞工的權益要做保障所以我比較支持現在的版本我的版本也是也就是外送員權益保障先放在前頭然後後邊才是外送平台管理法那誠如剛剛司要委員提的如果商家又要放進去的話這好像似乎"},{"start":22006.191,"end":22024.358,"text":"裡面會提到可是今天主管機關是勞動部的話我是覺得不需要在這邊放進去而且這種新興行業也很挑戰著我們如果未來有增加什麼的話是不是又要在法裡面去做名稱做修正那反而是從外申員還有他跟平台的合作裡面放在這邊就可以了以上那請王玉明委員發言"},{"start":22028.676,"end":22055.936,"text":"好謝謝主席我們今天修這一步法很多外送員他們現在也同步正在看我們開會的情況剛剛我們跟召委還有圖權紀委員我們也先去看這一些我們外送員我們透過這邊告訴你們你們辛苦了我們現在這個部分黨派大家正在修這一步法那原來其實你可以看到最早提出版本的包括"},{"start":22056.696,"end":22081.987,"text":"我們國民黨還有我這邊大家都是先講外送平台管理及從業人員權益保障法因為主要是當時提這個修法大家都知道是外送平台它現在有一些可能它獲利很高但是沒有實質回饋給這一些外送員很多權利不對等都是來自於外送平台它本身的問題比較大"},{"start":22083.348,"end":22108.184,"text":"就是我們其實改善了外送平台給他一些適度的規範之後其實外送員的權益就得到保障了所以為什麼當時我們在修法的時候率先提出來的就是都是把外送平台的管理放在前面因為大家都知道我們今天來審這部法最核心的就是整個外送平台的管理他現在是"},{"start":22109.325,"end":22127.398,"text":"政府很难管理的我想部长也知道你之前要找他们沟通其实平台可能他的能量跟声音比你更大声就是你是没有办法去管理他的你没有一步法是没有办法管理他的所以对于外送平台的管理才是这一步法真正的精神"},{"start":22128.058,"end":22144.216,"text":"只要这边的管理相关的制度跟设计都是合理的外送员的权益也就得到保障了所以你可以看到联动到第三条的时候我们在做相关的用词定义很多都是跟平台有关系"},{"start":22145.077,"end":22160.252,"text":"就是這個是這部法真正的精神喔所以不是說因為主管機關是誰就是把那個名稱放在前面而當時我只能說我們最率先提出版本的我們在思考的就是的確我們這部法"},{"start":22160.652,"end":22188.666,"text":"很多是要針對外送平台來訂定相關的管理辦法的這個我必須補充說明那至於大家討論完之後要把外送員權益放在前面或是放在後面我們大家可以客觀的討論但是這步伐真正的我覺得我們要處理跟解決的是外送平台現在權力過大然後我們整個外送員就是處在一個權力不對等跟權益沒有被保障的情況以上說明謝謝"},{"start":22190.216,"end":22219.267,"text":"好謝謝王玉明委員接下來請羅廷偉委員發言我想我的起初的觀念因為我自己也是蠻早就送出自己的版本那我的想法其實跟王玉明委員大致相同但是我覺得主席所提到的這個部分呢也不容忽視那從一開始我們為了外送員的權益來做努力到後面我們都一直了解到其實很多的一些店家到了他的因為外送平台的管理"},{"start":22219.827,"end":22245.499,"text":"导致上他很大的一个权益受损我们也知道是环环相扣的尤其店家如果整体都退出外送平台的话其实对外送员也不一定会有很大的一个受益所以我觉得在这一部法案当中虽然只是单纯的名称在做一个制定但我认为其实在店家的一个权益上我们应该也要重视所以我觉得主席讲的也是有他的道理以上"},{"start":22247.093,"end":22268.46,"text":"还有没有委员有意见那请部长根本说没有其实不管是在党的委员或者是支援党的委员的版本就目前来看包括现在劳动部提出来的预告版如果大家仔细去看条文的话基本上绝大部分的条文都是针对外送员的权益保障"},{"start":22269.72,"end":22283.906,"text":"就是说实话就条文的比例来说的话在平台的部分在商家的部分或什么其实都比外送员的权益的保障的条文数来的少很多"},{"start":22285.166,"end":22309.685,"text":"那按照現在我說不分委員提出來的版本基本上絕大部分的主體基本上是外送員的權益保障那所以剛才說為什麼我們比較贊成是現在在打在螢幕上面的原因是因為我們認為讓最大的比重的部分其實應該是要放在最前面"},{"start":22310.385,"end":22333.839,"text":"那第二个也是因为既然大家挑劳动部作为这一步法的主管那我们其实能够最主要能够主管的基本上是外送员的权益说实话就商家的管理或者是消费者的部分那可能会是交通部或者是经济部在做管理所以一来是因为劳动部主管二来真的是几乎所有的版本"},{"start":22334.739,"end":22359.807,"text":"最大比例的条文是在外送人权益的部分基于这两个理由我们还是比较希望是说在法案名称上面可以让他有个名实相符所以以外送人权益保障及外送平台管理法那我们也会谈到外送平台管理这里面也会外送平台管理所以不管是对消费者的部分或者是对商家的部分基本上都可以收纳在这个外送平台管理的概念里面但是让这个法案"},{"start":22360.807,"end":22389.75,"text":"呃呈現最多或主管管理密度最高的部分成為名稱裡面的最優最最低一個我覺得這其實是相對是比較適切的好呃請劉建國委員發言哎謝主席哦呃所有人講的各個面向都有道理啦哦啊其實其實一個法案的的制定基本上呃我們可以可以兼顧到通通把它包進來那最好不過"},{"start":22391.27,"end":22413.515,"text":"應該大家也是朝向這個目標不過我是要提醒如果今天要把外送平台放在前面那講真的可能我們是要到經濟委員會去討論反而不是在這個地方討論會變成這樣這個不是在大家在辯論這種事情因為你要勞動部來做這個主管基本上勞動部還是對人"},{"start":22414.395,"end":22440.568,"text":"他不可能是對平台所以這個有一個先後順序啦我是讓大家可以夠理解當然要整個把所有剛剛主席特別提到的把商家面向都納在進來這裡面這個都OK我覺得這個都必須要去兼顧不過法案名稱可能讓各位再思考一下如果一定要把外送平台放在前面真的我們可能要跑到經濟委員會去審查請各位思考一下啦好不好提醒大家謝謝"},{"start":22444.682,"end":22470.939,"text":"還有沒有委員有其他不同的想法謝謝 謝謝我們王一鳴這個委員對我的提醒我順便跟議事部講一下我的法案就是以第二個版本出來16人那一個16人那一個 17人那一個我已經自動閹割放棄 好 謝謝我16個就好 16人那一個"},{"start":22475.788,"end":22492.147,"text":"其實那本席也表達一下再次表達補充一下我的意見啦我覺得當然這個勞動部為主管機關然後也這個法之所以會垂身跟外送員有最大的關係但條文裡面也不乏所謂的商家還有外送平台的管理以及消費者其實都有提到齁"},{"start":22492.828,"end":22512.545,"text":"那當然如果你說只用勞動部的角度來說衍生這個法的話你可能會覺得外送員要放在前面可是其實我相信這個勞動部在一直在做這個法的時候也一直不斷的在權衡包含產業發展包含外送員的權益包含店家包含消費者"},{"start":22513.226,"end":22531.695,"text":"好那我認為說如果只因為名職的改變就認為不是勞動部在主責的話我覺得可能會把這個法想得比較小一點我的想法再來就是說因為外送員他可以有很多很多種型態不見得是在uber下面嘛那如果今天我們這個法出來的主體是因為這種外送平台出來"},{"start":22532.395,"end":22558.682,"text":"然後他下面有很多的外送員衍生的相關問題所以我的想法反而是會不會是應該是最上位的整個母體最大宗應該是以外送平台管理為一個主體下面去拆分我覺得這樣子是不是會對於這樣的產業或者是相關的關係利害關係的人未來在思考的時候會更加全面更加的平衡這是我的思考的方向也供大家參考"},{"start":22559.702,"end":22587.37,"text":"那先請這個吳思耀委員發言然後請這個陳培雲委員發言再請范雲委員發言謝謝那主席我具體的建議我個人意見還是希望就是打在螢幕上的這樣子的法案名稱那或許大家也如果在名稱上我們先保留也沒有關係因為我們看了條文之後把條文順了之後其實有助於與會委員更理解我們在條文的內容含括的"},{"start":22588.57,"end":22601.038,"text":"整個面向然後回頭再來看這個名稱的集大成怎麼放比較好那如同我剛剛所主張的在整個法案的條文內容上的"},{"start":22602.581,"end":22620.646,"text":"琢磨确实是外送员权益保障是最多的那第二个是外送平台的相关的管理辅导所以我觉得如果这样有助于大家理解跟最后归纳出最好的版本是我们就先保留然后顺着条文回来可以再来共同决定谢谢"},{"start":22621.311,"end":22650.123,"text":"好 謝謝吳思耀委員請陳培委員發言好 謝謝主席其實民進黨團的版本其實我覺得大家必須要實話實說就是因為有很多外送員權益在這幾年當中其實剛開始所有在野黨委員喊出來的也都是為了確保外送員的權益保障所以大家開始有這個積極的討論那我們現在也很開心看到非常多委員都有提案而且大部分的委員提案其實也都把重點放在外送權益保障"},{"start":22650.643,"end":22672.214,"text":"所以我也比較支持現在電視機上這個螢幕的寫法就是外送人權益保障放在前面然後因著要保障這些外送人權益所以我們對於外送平台有相關的管理跟協調的機制所以把後面這個放進來那我也認為如果今天在名稱上大家就有這麼多起義其實也許可以保留送到我們後續之後再討論喔謝謝好謝謝 請范委員發言"},{"start":22677.97,"end":22701.623,"text":"那我非常支持剛剛從劉建國到吳思瑤到陳培元委員的觀點今天為什麼我們會坐在這邊有這個專法那其實就是因為外送員的權益缺乏保障嘛那從那個2020年開始當時我就一起跟外送員朋友他們還在籌備工會的時候談到他們的工作"},{"start":22703.564,"end":22722.316,"text":"風險職業安全2021年他們遇到演算法減薪的時候當時勞動部還有請外送員代表一起坐下來討論2022年我去找交通部因為他們在颱風天還必須要外送是一個蠻嚴重的職業安全跟交通安全的問題交通部訂出了機車外送安全指引"},{"start":22723.296,"end":22737.005,"text":"後來2023年外送平台大砍薪他們又遇到薪資不保的問題2024年我當時有用預算案要勞動部嚴寧薪資要透明化所以一開始就不是因為外送平台這個產業出現了問題而是因為他們的勞動權益不保"},{"start":22742.248,"end":22766.818,"text":"所以今天如果我們關心產業為什麼會關心他的管理核心是在外送員的權益那勞動部是主管也是因為剛剛講的就是就是外送員的權益本來就應該放在前面所以我不知道剛剛為什麼會出現抱歉因為我剛剛比較晚到有另外一個講法這個名稱不要把就是相關的勞動權益放在前面以上好那請王宏威委員發言"},{"start":22772.847,"end":22788.748,"text":"好 謝謝主席就是我想在法案名稱的部分因為我們現在有很多的版本那我必須要說的是剛才主席所提到的因為這個還有合作商家權益我覺得這也非常重要"},{"start":22789.549,"end":22805.84,"text":"其實早在本會期之前事實上從去年開始我們就已經有很多的委員提出版本我們其實重點都是一樣第一個就是外送平台的管理另外一個就是從業人員的權益保障"},{"start":22810.083,"end":22836.324,"text":"其實都是這兩個主要的項目那現在我覺得好像爭執老半天只是哪一個放在前面而已只是放在哪一個前面而已那我也必須講我可以感覺得到就是這個民進黨團或民進黨籍的委員可能因為他們是這個會期才送出這個法案因為事實上真的遠遠落後我們很多其他委員的這個法案的進度"},{"start":22836.804,"end":22863.251,"text":"但是基本上大家都不脫於這兩個那個大的領域的相關的規範跟保障所以我個人還是會認為就是說我們事實上之前這麼多委員所提到的外送平台管理及從業人員的權益保障法我覺得這已經完全涵蓋我們這一次的修法的這個制定這個法律的精神我覺得並不需要我們今天一定要排排看"},{"start":22864.371,"end":22881.3,"text":"總是有一個先來後到的一個順序那基本上如果待會要保留我覺得我想大家也應該大部分會可以支持但是我覺得去爭議這個東西一定要後來的就一定要要用這個名稱我個人覺得這樣的邏輯不同好謝謝好謝謝好請勞動部長補充"},{"start":22889.212,"end":22915.182,"text":"其实想跟各位说明其实数位平台有很多种可是为什么很多国家特别会对外送平台来立法其实一个很重要的原因都是在于外送员的权益的问题所以我们在很多数位平台的立法上面比较会单独把它拿出来的是因为外送平台的权益其实这件事情在各国都是我跟各位举几个例子"},{"start":22915.922,"end":22933.213,"text":"西班牙的西班牙的这个外送的专法他的名字叫做歧视法Rider西班牙的叫歧视法新加坡的外送专法他叫做平台工作者法案"},{"start":22935.114,"end":22963.142,"text":"那義大利的相關的專法它是寫在就業法裡面他們是放在它的就業法裡面我要跟各位說的意思是說其實我們並不是每一種數位平台都讓它有一個專法可是為什麼外送平台會需要一個專法其實最大的驅動的力量其實是來自於外送員的權益在這裡面其實大家覺得會需要做更進一步的規範所以如果你從國際的例子上看到來說的話基本上大家在訂定法案的名稱上面或它的主體性來說"},{"start":22964.042,"end":22985.451,"text":"的确都是以外送员的权益作为最优先的摆放这不是只是台湾是这样而已刚才讲西班牙新加坡几个国际的法院我想大家如果有研究我们国际上的法律的话都看到这个状况所以我们还是觉得说外送人权益保障放在前面还是真的是比较适切这不是只有台湾这样做而已"},{"start":22989.693,"end":22998.045,"text":"好這個我想隨著後面的討論我們可以再回來看所謂的名稱到底有沒有合適那我覺得這一條我們先保留到第二輪討論"},{"start":23003.492,"end":23020.75,"text":"接下來是這個總則的部分有這個章次有分第一章總則那現在有這個有分章的大概是有劉建國委員以及本席的版本那這個部分大家有沒有什麼有沒有什麼意見請先請勞動部說明"},{"start":23025.027,"end":23047.491,"text":"主席委員有關於第一章總則就是為了本法各條文的保障跟規管可以對象更明確所以我們在這也是建議法案中應該區分章節然後以總則為第一章然後建議依委員廖偉強等25人委員劉建國等16人提案來通過那有沒有委員有意見好沒有意見的話就"},{"start":23052.878,"end":23079.636,"text":"好那這個部分就依照這個劉建國召委以及廖偉祥委員的版本通過那接下來從第一條開始那個萬美玲委員發言還有再請黃建豪委員發言再請吳思耀委員發言"},{"start":23081.798,"end":23106.09,"text":"謝謝主席我們第一條是這個立法議旨那當然我們這次制定專法最主要的目的就是要保障我們的外送員的權益為主那但是本席認為消費者的這個保障在這個專法裡頭也相對的重要那對於消費者而言目前外送平台不管是收取的服務費運費手續費等相關費用我們看起來都沒有清楚完整的揭露"},{"start":23106.69,"end":23126.96,"text":"那如果因故要取消訂單相關的退費機制等等也沒有公開透明所以消費者的權益在這當中其實也沒有辦法受到保障所以在本席的提案當中我們對於消費者的保障包括外送平台應該在外送平台介面標示清楚商品價格服務費運費手續費及其他相關費用的金額"},{"start":23127.62,"end":23144.338,"text":"那麼第二個部分就是外送平台應該來制定消費者收取這個取消訂單的時候的退費機制還有商品交付遲延的一些處理方式交付的商品跟訂單不符或者有瑕疵損壞退費或賠償的措施我就要展明清楚"},{"start":23144.858,"end":23172.498,"text":"所以呢基於以上的規範我們要在這部這個法當中去保障外送員但是也要同時可以保障消費者所以本席認為在第一條的部分那本席的提案是為管理外送平台業者保障外送員及本席這邊多一個消費者之權益來制定本法那當然我看到這個主席還有一些委員裡面他也有寫到合作廠商那至於這個部分的話就尊重等一下大家的討論"},{"start":23173.419,"end":23196.89,"text":"那以上謝謝好謝謝那請黃建豪委員發言好謝謝主席我想今天這個第一條非常的重要我想第一條又涉及到這個法到底要做什麼事情要包含第一條我自己的版本是為管理外送平台業者然後保障外送人權因為其實今天大家會坐在這邊討論最大的問題就是因為我們發現"},{"start":23198.211,"end":23227.21,"text":"外送平台業者很難管理所以才會有這個法定的出現所以包含說後面包含剛剛關偉霖委員提到了保障消費者權益還有我們之前提到說這個包含說要訂定所謂的基本費理繩費等待費樓繩費等等的這個各種費用的問題也是涉及到外送平台業者他怎麼去訂定相關的標準然後相關的這個資金的機制怎麼樣分潤給所謂外送員所以核心問題還是在外送平台外送平台如果"},{"start":23227.87,"end":23247.57,"text":"没问题了当然我想外送人的保障就没问题了所以这就是为什么一开始刚刚上一轮在讨论的这个法案名称大家会在争论说到底是外送平台比较重要还是要把外送人放在前面比较重要那在我的逻辑里面我当然觉得说因为今天会讨论这一切的源起就是因为外送平台业者过去这些年的表现或这段时间的状况"},{"start":23248.21,"end":23268.554,"text":"讓大家覺得不可信任才需要去訂相關法律去管理所以在這個法條的名稱上面我們還是希望說我是主張說還是要以為管理外送平台業者為主然後來保障我們外送人的權益以上謝謝好謝謝黃江豪委員那請吳思亞委員發言然後再請陳清惠委員發言還有徐宇貞委員發言還有范雲委員"},{"start":23271.057,"end":23299.017,"text":"還有羅廷惠委員 等一下好 謝謝主席你先的嗎 好 請好 可以發言了嗎 蕾欣 妳先第一條的部分雖然民進黨團也有我們的版本那民進黨的諸多委員也有版本但我們共同我們又在meeting過我們就同意以劉建國委員召委的16人的提案來做討論的一個參照那我順著這個邏輯來說明第一條呢 多數的委員提案是只有第一項"},{"start":23299.938,"end":23323.916,"text":"所以第一項就是在說明本法的目的是保障哪些stakeholders那第一項的部分我先來論述我們也是依附我們剛剛在討論這個法案名稱的這個邏輯這個主婦關係重點的部分先來處理所以我們的四個stakeholder我們都放進來它的順序分別是保障外送員權益管理外送平台業者維護消費者"},{"start":23326.218,"end":23348.778,"text":"及合作商家权益所以四个Stakeholders我们都会放在第一条的第一项里头那我们的优先顺序如我刚刚所说明我们是认为这个法的这个主体跟课题本身我们有一些排序那第二项呢要特别说明因为外送平台的业者跟外送员之间的劳务关系是很多元的"},{"start":23349.258,"end":23376.549,"text":"所以他的契約關係我們在第二項又更細緻的來針對如果是未具雇傭關係的就是用本法那如果是有雇傭關係的但是呢有一些新的更進步的譬如說服務契約投保商業保險職災保險教育訓練交通安全違規等等怎麼處理這個是大家認為要在這個法裡頭新增的"},{"start":23376.969,"end":23405.509,"text":"就已有雇佣关系的排除这些新兴的东西之外那适用原来的劳动法律的秩序譬如说就适用劳基法职安法等等所以说民进党跟建国委员召委的版本的第二项很清楚的说明这个法律在适用上哪些是适用本法哪些是适用原本劳动部就在管理的这些法规所以我认为要有这个第二项的说明"},{"start":23406.389,"end":23431.324,"text":"适用的法规跟排除的法律这非常重要所以多数的委员是指偏重第一项那我们是非常强烈的建议参照建国召委的跟民进党团的第二项来做第一条文因为这非常重要一般的立法例也应当会在第一条除了本法制定的目的规范的对象之外会加注这个法律的适用跟例外的状况供大家参考"},{"start":23436.044,"end":23456.565,"text":"那接下來我不好意思接下來是請陳金輝委員我這邊是想請教勞動部我們這一條規定另訂僱傭契約者回歸勞基法但實務上我們是看到很多平台業者是常常透過契約的形式來規避僱傭的認定那我會希望等一下勞動部再說明"},{"start":23458.186,"end":23477.774,"text":"如果平台是利用演算法進行實質指揮監督卻簽署承攬契約本法通過以後勞動部要怎麼判定這可能跟剛剛有點類似那會不會發生業者主張適用專法卻阻卻了勞工主張勞基法權益的毛定效應這是我的疑問謝謝謝謝因為還有委員你要一次回答還是你要先回應好OK那先請勞動部長回應"},{"start":23487.132,"end":23500.692,"text":"其实第一条的第二项是关键其实应该是说的确我们现在看到有一些国家他有出现他是明摆着是雇佣关系的外送平台"},{"start":23501.894,"end":23525.076,"text":"那我跟各位说明一下这个法为什么在过去他其实不是一件那么容易去做规划的法案因为如果整体的劳动法规他基本上两个架构一个是雇佣关系一个是承揽那的确在很多国家把会把外送平台的这个形态会视为是一个比较是中间的形态他不是一个传统的雇佣也不是一个传统的承揽"},{"start":23525.857,"end":23538.134,"text":"但的确比方我们看到在欧盟是有看到他打着我就是雇佣关系的平台所以如果他是雇佣关系平台的话我们认为其实这个法案里面有蛮多的条文就不适合他"},{"start":23539.574,"end":23567.755,"text":"这个法的条文我们这次法里面设计的很多条文他处理的特别是针对这种他非传统雇佣也非传统承揽的形态所以如果今天出现了一家他跟你说我就是雇佣关系我就是聘雇外送人是雇佣关系的话那除了刚才在讲到的第第4条第5项第10条第11条第25条以外照理来说其他的只要是相关的法规都应该回到劳基法去处理"},{"start":23570.253,"end":23596.463,"text":"都会回到劳基法去处理这个里面他是一个也防止未来因为我们有点难去保证未来在台湾只会有两家或三家或只有现在眼前的外送平台有可能会有新的的确看到有一些新创他是用雇佣关系为目的在其他国家的话那他的适用法规他的这个是法性就要在这里面做出区分所以第二项主要处理的问题是这个部分"},{"start":23596.883,"end":23619.001,"text":"那這件事情非常非常重要因為如果不區分的話以後新的一家假設他是用雇傭關係的話他的司法性會非常非常亂那他又要適用勞基法要適用這個裡面會有很多司法性會衝突那所以我們比較建議用劉建國委員的版本的原因是因為他在這個第二項就是要來處理這個他在勞動關係上面的定性跟他適用法規的問題好那接下來換徐毅臻委員發言"},{"start":23625.845,"end":23646.032,"text":"我想有關第一條就是我們立法的目的也是代表了就是本法的一個立法核心的宗旨那因為外送平台的業者的他的經營模式是很特殊而且外送員的人數也眾多所以為了有效管理外送平台業者並確實的保障外送員的相關權益所以特別制定這個專法"},{"start":23646.992,"end":23673.932,"text":"但是因為在過去外送員常常被視為一般的承攬人導致在整個勞資的爭議或職業災害的時候缺乏專門的法律依據來主張權益所以本法確定之後呢特別法由於普通法的原則意即在本法有規定的範圍內優先適用本法若本法未規定者則回歸其他適用的相關法律如民法消費者保護法的規定這也宣告的國家對於外送產業不再放任自留"},{"start":23674.472,"end":23702.07,"text":"而是進入了法制化管理的時代不但可以這個管理這個外送平台也確保了保障外送員的一個權益這也讓我們一直爭議多時的包括說外送員的工作就有工時零碎勞僱關係不明確還有高度依賴演算法管理等特性而針對這個到底是承攬還是僱傭相關的一個關係呢也可以利用這樣的一個法律來去訂定那也讓外送員的這個工作處境能夠獲得保障謝謝"},{"start":23704.008,"end":23707.141,"text":"好 謝謝接下來請范雲委員發言"},{"start":23709.419,"end":23735.458,"text":"我的部分就是我的版本雖然沒有寫到維護消費者及合作商家的權益但是我看一下我們的條文的確是有一些會觸及到這個部分所以我也支持劉建國委員的這個版本就是我們先講就是外送員的權益再講管理外送平台業者再來是維護消費者及合作商家權益那就目標清楚外送員權益還是最優先"},{"start":23736.218,"end":23750.214,"text":"那另外就是把就是雇佣關係像剛剛洪部長所講的一樣具體的寫出來所以我想目前看起來就是劉建國委員的那個低調非常的完整好支持好接下來還有哪一位委員這個羅廷偉委員發言謝謝"},{"start":23757.591,"end":23775.429,"text":"好簡單說明那我個人認為趙偉廖偉強委員的版本也是非常的明定清楚所以這部分我覺得你的版本還不錯以你的為主謝謝羅廷輝委員那請林月琴委員發言"},{"start":23781.704,"end":23798.061,"text":"我看到大家版本大概都只是在特別去強調保障外送員權益跟管理外送平台那當然有些事實上像劉建偉有特別還是提到那個回復消費者跟合作商家的一個權益可是我認為"},{"start":23799.202,"end":23823.53,"text":"最終目標今天會有外送尤其是運送食物所以我的版本呢是寫的期待事實上是應該更高的角度上來看的話是應該是有促進國民消費生活安全還有提升貨品供應品質的目的啦所以我認為應該在前面是不是應該加入這一個會比較完備以上請王宏威委員發言"},{"start":23829.13,"end":23843.497,"text":"我想請問一下就是這個因為我覺得剛才剛才我們部長洪部長沒有很很具體的回答剛才陳金輝委員的問題如果採取劉建國委員的提案"},{"start":23844.657,"end":23858.833,"text":"會不會形成對於有僱傭就是他說是有僱傭關係的如果在這個法裡面其實對於我們的外送員的保障比較完善的地方"},{"start":23859.454,"end":23877.513,"text":"但是在這邊非常確定的就是說你就是適用第4條第5項第4條及第25條之外其他就是按照現在的相關牢記法等等所以我擔心的是有沒有可能會成為一個問題就是說原來我們這個法有一些他是可以照顧到所有"},{"start":23878.154,"end":23902.188,"text":"給更多外送員保障的部分但是因為這第二條條文的這樣的一個定法使得如果是僱傭關係的他反而不能夠去適用會不會有這樣的一個問題因為我們希望的是這個法律這個法律只要對我們從業人員有好處的不管你是僱傭關係非僱傭關係承攬關係都能夠適用這才是我們的初衷對不對"},{"start":23907.811,"end":23933.77,"text":"所以这个部分可不可以更具体的来跟我们来解释一下好跟跟王委员说明其实这是在劳动关系里面的核心其实他在劳动关系的定位会牵涉到比方说平台跟外送员之间的关系会多么的弹性我举例来说今天如果平台跟外送员之间是雇佣关系的话那外送员就是不能聚单的"},{"start":23936.365,"end":23945.354,"text":"平台跟外送員之間的指揮關係就會更明確而且更強制其實就沒有辦法我們就不應該用法律來讓外送員有據單的權利"},{"start":23948.615,"end":23966.173,"text":"但是我们现在在很多的条文里面是让外送员保障他有聚单的权利而不会被不利对待所以我们现在是在处理一个中间的关系出来今天如果我把他定位成雇佣关系的话可是我条文里面假认又要再让他有聚单权利这就是矛盾的事情"},{"start":23967.862,"end":23983,"text":"這就是矛盾的事情這也是為什麼如果今天他被認知為僱傭關係的話裡面就有些條文就不適合因為他就是會給外送人跟平台之間的彈性的部分那個彈性的部分就要把它給縮減不然這個彈性跟僱傭關係之間的強制就會衝突"},{"start":23990.024,"end":23996.891,"text":"這就是在處理那個定性性質的部分的確現在很多的外送員是比較不一定他是希望變成是雇傭關係的"},{"start":23998.843,"end":24027.075,"text":"所以也因為他不希望成為雇傭關係所以我們才要給他巨擔的權利比方說離線的權利不然他要更強制的接受平台的強制指揮你這部分我可以理解所以我才說他這個第二條裡面他是用他是很明確的說你可以適用第四條第五項第四條叫888這個都是很明確的之外其他你就全部都按照目前現有的勞基法及相關的規定所以我覺得你們有沒有去檢視過"},{"start":24028.556,"end":24053.642,"text":"我跟委員說你剛才講的我可以接受但是有沒有檢視過有沒有說我們這邊有更好的一個條件然後被讓他們給排除在外我跟委員說明現在我們說適用的那些條件裡面基本上是哪些部分是包括這個服務契約的收支那職業災害通報外送人教育訓練等等等就是在這些事情以外他就回到勞基法"},{"start":24055.134,"end":24084.413,"text":"就回到勞基法但是勞基法有勞基法的規範但是如果進入勞基法的規範的話它那個彈性就會大大的縮減對所以這個第二項就是在處理這個問題第一條的第二項就是在處理勞動關係上面它適用哪些每一種勞動關係它會有它適用的它會有它適用的條文跟法效你只要保證就好因為我們這個全部都會有記錄下來的好不好"},{"start":24085.393,"end":24105.471,"text":"好谢谢陈培余委员发言好我其实本来刚刚是想要回应王洪威委的提问不过因为刚刚那个部长已经说明的非常清楚确实我们现在看到世界各国不管是雇佣关系承担关系或是非传统的这种二元性的关系本来就有很多是过往的法规所没有办法解决的"},{"start":24105.831,"end":24128.371,"text":"所以回過頭來看為了保障外送員的權益而開始討論這個法案版本我們開始把所謂平台放進來消費者放進來合作商家都放進來所以開始來討論所以確實在相關的關係上確實是需要多一些空間跟想像的那我相信目前在劉建國委員這個16人提案的版本裡面"},{"start":24129.451,"end":24146.306,"text":"應該把各式各樣現在外送員所擔心的或者是外送平台所擔心的商家所擔心消費者所擔心的都已經算進去所以很感謝部長剛剛說明關於契約的部分教育訓練的部分災害通報的部分用這個辦法其他我們就回到"},{"start":24147.406,"end":24170.659,"text":"勞動基準法相關規範裡面我認為這個做法應該是最適切的所以民進黨團這邊也支持劉建國委員等16人提案的這個版本我要再強調是16人不是17人這個版本喔謝謝還有委員要發言嗎沒有的話我要發言喔好那請王宏威委員發言沒有沒有我剛才發言過我剛才講錯了那個王育民委員你們兩個認錯了嗎你看連韋翔都認錯了"},{"start":24176.434,"end":24194.21,"text":"韋翔召委我要稱讚一下那個勞動部你們的那個有一個建議條文的說明寫得非常好這在第三頁第三頁你們的建議條文然後建議條文說明裡面這個第二項裡面呢"},{"start":24194.77,"end":24217.65,"text":"你说为因应外送平台产业之发展横评外送员消费者合作商家与外送平台业者兼之各方权利义务关系以保障外送员消费者及合作商家权益并兼顾外送平台产业健全发展特制定本法这段文字写得太棒了"},{"start":24218.17,"end":24229.255,"text":"我覺得這段文字應該放在第一條的立法說明母法裡面對不對大家都贊成真的寫得太好這是勞動部寫的還是我們未還的工作勞動部寫的這個要給寫出這段文字的工作同仁嘉獎真的"},{"start":24234.557,"end":24252.638,"text":"我覺得這個就解決了剛剛大家的爭議事實上它回到了為什麼剛剛我們從前面的名稱說是從外送平台的管理開始它在這一段的說明裡面的確整個我們也是因應外送平台產業的發展我們要橫平這些關係所以制定本法"},{"start":24253.218,"end":24278.364,"text":"這段文字寫得太棒了 部長你要嘉獎這位人員寫得太好了很專業我覺得這個就是立法說明非常好啊是不是各位委員同仁大家讚不讚我覺得寫得太棒了等一下我要講一下主席謝謝我等一下王玉敏委員講這段真的寫得太好了我就把這整個立法的原址然後所有涵蓋的範圍這個立法說明寫得太讚了一百分啦一百分"},{"start":24279.795,"end":24295.073,"text":"好 謝謝王玉銘委員這個是羅廷惟委員看到這一段文字他跟我講然後要我特別發言告訴大家的他率先看到這段文字 對 謝謝好 那請陳培余委員發言接下來請王振旭委員發言"},{"start":24295.836,"end":24311.272,"text":"我想在野黨委員難得肯定行政機關我們當然感謝在野黨委員可是我們要說因為剛剛那個名稱的部分已經保留是不是就可以不用再講名稱了那至於因著外送員還是因為平台的發展或者是所謂平台產業這件事情"},{"start":24312.799,"end":24339.637,"text":"我們要說再次強調大家都非常清楚剛剛還有委員說先來後到我們如果去看所有先來後到所謂先來的版本裡面大部分都只有提到外送員的權益是後來劉建國委員的版本還有民進黨黨團的版本我們把所謂的平台商家消費者多都放進去了所以既然已經保留的我們是不是就之後再討論了不要再拉回來以上謝謝"},{"start":24340.987,"end":24364.665,"text":"好請王振旭委員發言不是我嗎你剛不是點我了他再換你振旭委員再換你不好意思謝謝主席第一次發言針對剛剛王立民委員所提到有關於在很稱讚這一段文字我也覺得這段文字真的寫得非常好可是不是要把它放到"},{"start":24366.146,"end":24385.338,"text":"這個母法條文裡面我是覺得可能還是可以再商榷因為我們知道事實上如果依照劉建國委員等16人的提案裡面事實上他第一條就是寫的相對比較簡潔就是為了要保障外送員權益管理外送員平台者"},{"start":24386.739,"end":24403.741,"text":"維護消費者及合作商家權益特制定本法特制定本法那這個相當簡潔可是在立法說明裡面我們就可以把那一段文字直接放在立法說明這樣是不是就能夠相輔相成而且不會讓這個內容又重複以上"},{"start":24405.275,"end":24432.549,"text":"請羅廷偉委員發言主席不好意思我是覺得說剛好我們兩邊分併座啦是不是各點一位不要就是只看那一邊啦好好不好意思不好意思 抱歉抱歉這樣公平嘛好不好沒問題那回應一下這個品瑜 培瑜委員對不起對不起對不起培瑜 我剛才問他們對不起對不起"},{"start":24433.82,"end":24461.432,"text":"這不是重點這不是重點對不起對不起培育委員第一條其實是保留我們都知道但是就是說剛剛發現這段文字我覺得它有關係到就是我們在第一條對不起我是說名稱名稱我們第一個條討論到的是名稱保留以後呢為什麼我們又要再講這一段因為名稱就關係到現在我們在訂的第一條第一項第二項"},{"start":24462.092,"end":24486.75,"text":"所以也在關係到我們現在正在審的這個第一條嘛所以我要拜託的是說這個立法的建議條文說明勞動部已經寫這麼清楚我覺得這個很重要以這個為基準點我們開始再反推到名稱也就是第一條第一項第二項開始要來討論的時候我覺得還是廖偉祥委員那邊寫的會更加明確其實坦白講劉建國委員寫的也不錯這個我"},{"start":24489.721,"end":24505.992,"text":"很好很好很好大家加油一起為他們加油好我想要補充一下這個剛剛大家都一直稱讚這個建議條文說明行政部門的建議條文說明那當然名稱已經保留可是我想要補充一下我自己的版本在第一條的第二項大家可以看一下前面一段話"},{"start":24507.333,"end":24522.646,"text":"這是非常符合行政院的說明因為你們說要這個橫評外送員消費者合作商家外送平台各方權益嘛那我在想這條文是不是要加入我這一段因為我的第二項的第一條的第二項前面有寫到"},{"start":24523.447,"end":24541.006,"text":"外送員合作商家消費者之權益保障及外送平台業者之管理依本法之規定那本法未規定者適用其他法律之規定這也就是我前面說的消費者的話可能就是消極法那這個部分我就是把它說明的比較具體把它放進去"},{"start":24541.707,"end":24560.196,"text":"然後後面當然就跟劉建國委員的事差不多就是說有關於這個外送員的權益的部分好那我我希望說這段是不是如果大家覺得沒有意見的話大家可以看一下因為這個就是等於把大家想要的這個橫平性再加一句話進去好那這樣子整合起來就是一個比較完善的好沒關係請陳培語委員發言"},{"start":24564.963,"end":24580.175,"text":"我剛想說你不要再叫錯名字了好了那個主席我懂你的意思你的意思是說你覺得你的第一條寫超級無敵好但是這不是文字的問題喔如果你用你這個寫法來看對照劉建國委員的寫法因為"},{"start":24580.655,"end":24600.254,"text":"第一條要談的是以誰的權力為主體去發散討論這個適用的範圍跟內容可是如果你要以外送平台業者那所有外送員的這些相關權益跟外送平台之間的關係就會回到王宏威委員剛剛好心提醒深漢部長說所謂這個僱傭關係還是承攬關係還是非傳統的這個二元對立的關係"},{"start":24605.339,"end":24618.092,"text":"是不一樣的所以不是只是因為加入這個文字而是他整體在規範內容就會不一樣所以拜託如果大家在主席版本跟劉建國文版本還是有差異那我是不是就建議保留謝謝"},{"start":24619.915,"end":24645.389,"text":"我這裡再補充一下然後我請那個我們部長回應喔我也是想要聽勞動部的意見喔因為其實我這邊後面第二項的後面跟劉建國委員應該是差不多那我只是在第二項的前面加入了其他的利害關係人如果在本法沒有規定到的要適用其他的法規因為我發現大家有漏了這一點我覺得他這個完整性可能跟培育委員的理解有點不一樣但是也請我們的部長請說明一下"},{"start":24648.079,"end":24676.678,"text":"等一下 對不起 主席我都還沒有講話對 我剛剛沒有看到你舉手 不好意思我有舉手好 那請劉建國召委提醒主席品瑜已經不在很久了請部長也一併說明因為剛剛我聽廖召偉這麼講基本上我還是期待第一條是不是有機會大家趕快整合讓它有一個共識不然就會變成第一條沒有共識就比爸爸後面會議再保下去"},{"start":24677.618,"end":24698.908,"text":"那當然在第一條的第一項裡面其實還是有那個主婦的問題那第二個當然我也尊重廖召偉要把那個商家放棄沒有意見但第二項裡面有一點差異就除適用第四條第五項這個應該是這樣第十條及我這邊是第十條及第21條至25條那廖召偉的部分是第12條14條22條"},{"start":24705.351,"end":24731.401,"text":"所以我請部長就一併來說明一下這兩條條文抄議在什麼地方謝謝請部長我其實從第一項現在才討論第一條嘛從第一項再 我再回應是第一個我認為我們在這裡面的外送員應該本法裡面用的外送員都可以精準就是直接講外送員其實不用講外送從業人員"},{"start":24732.842,"end":24753.84,"text":"因为外送从业人员真的都会溢出外送员的范围比方说平台的行政工作者平台的工程师那个其实不他是外送从业人员可是他不是我们目标的外送员我觉得都可以把从业人员用以外送员来更精准的来去使用了"},{"start":24754.58,"end":24781.422,"text":"然后我觉得后面要外送平台管理外送平台或者是维护消费者可是我们很希望尤其是这是劳动部主管我们希望把保障外送员权益可以放在第一个因为我觉得这是最优先的事情所以让保障外送员权益可以放在第一个那后面要再加上管理外送平台业者维护消费者或者合作商家等等的权益这部分我们意见都不大这是在第一项的部分"},{"start":24782.162,"end":24797.857,"text":"那第二项的我也想说明一下就是说因为按照刚刚料源的版本的话是把这个合作商家跟消费者跟权益保障的部分就是本法未规定的部分适用其他法规"},{"start":24798.337,"end":24815.029,"text":"因为这部分其实主不那么是劳动部主管我认为这部分就是关于干商合作商家跟消费者的部分可能要问一下交通部或经济部就是说如果是这样写的话在他们管理消费在处理消费者的关系跟平台关系上面"},{"start":24816.13,"end":24831.063,"text":"商家官商家關係跟消費者的關係上面他們OK因為就我們主要勞動部是處理平台跟外送員之間的關係上我們認為這樣寫是我們就留言的版本的寫法是OK的對"},{"start":24833.12,"end":24859.022,"text":"好 那個 那是不是請其他部會有沒有針對本席剛剛說的保障外送援為優先是這個法的出發點沒有 我相信在場各位各黨派或者行政部門沒有任何人有異議可是其實也可以看到行政部門的相關的版本也都有提到其他利害關係人那是不是可以請不管是經濟部或交通部或者是這個相關的部會有沒有"},{"start":24859.682,"end":24887.303,"text":"有沒有意見我們是不是可以把本席剛剛所謂提到的有關於外送員合作商家消費者之權益保障以及外送平台業者依本法之規定那本法未規定者適用其他法律之規定我想其實這個應該是沒有跟你們後面這個有關於勞僱關係的這個僱傭關係應該是類似的概念我再補充對不起我剛忘講一點因為劉委員的版本我們就一個是他是寫具有僱傭關係"},{"start":24889.964,"end":24908.574,"text":"料園的版本是写订定雇佣关系那我们认为具有的范围会比较大只要你有具有雇佣关系就直接是用劳基法不用到订定最具有的范围比订定来的大"},{"start":24911.154,"end":24939.546,"text":"這具有的部分我覺得沒有問題對就是所以我說就具有跟另定的部分來講我們比較是主張還是用具有那個部分我們沒有問題喔那我現在的意思還是前面說的其他的利害關係人在這一條沒有提到的要不要依照本席的意見把它加進去同意陳惠義加入召委的意見他剛剛有回應了他剛剛說因為他不管其他的他要請其他部會討那個發表意見有有有"},{"start":24941.331,"end":24953.56,"text":"我們是不是可以請這個經濟部或者是消費者保護處如果你們覺得這加進去是可行的沒有意見就說沒有意見如果有意見可以說明沒關係還有我們交通部交通部的司長胡司長"},{"start":24960.758,"end":24982.478,"text":"跟委員報告那其實我們是建議啦就是可以依照那個劉建國委員的一個提案就是說這個部分其實該規定的部分都已經有相關的一個規範了那至於說是不是把那個那個召委的意見併入那我們是尊重那個委員會的討論"},{"start":24984.133,"end":24994.124,"text":"所以你們是尊重說病入對不對沒有病入沒有意見是不是這樣子好那其他的部類還是委員要發言那請徐宇貞委員再請羅廷惟委員"},{"start":24994.83,"end":25022.857,"text":"我想剛剛其實劉建國委員也有提到其實這個他的版本跟我們廖瑋祥召委的版本其實是差不多的可是我們的召委就是廖瑋祥召委他其實更加完善因為把這個依照這個相關的這個關係人依本法未規定的要適用其他法律的規定加進去我覺得是讓他更為完善那至於劉建國委員提到說除適用第四條第五項你們這段有一些不同那是不是他的部分也可以納入讓這個法條更為完善以上"},{"start":25023.766,"end":25049.271,"text":"那請羅廷惠委員發言首先先跟那個交通部的這個師長講說反正就可能麥克風剛我覺得收音不是很好再稍微注意一下我沒有聽很清楚那當然我覺得如果能夠兩者兼併的話跟這個徐政委員所說的一樣的話是最好的但是我想說要了解一下到底有沒有什麼樣的各部會其他的問題是不是能夠講清楚如果沒有我是覺得可不可以趕快推進就保留就好了"},{"start":25050.353,"end":25073.302,"text":"或者是有沒有需要直接把它寫上去然後再放在螢幕上大家看一下現在寫上去如果當大家看一下如果沒意見的話這樣好不好就是第一個第一項我建議就是用上面的第一項沒問題好第一項第一條第一項那第二項剛剛"},{"start":25075.29,"end":25100.255,"text":"廖委員的意思是把消費者跟外送員他也是外送員在前面對外送員在前面然後把消費者跟商家把他放到裡面去那我覺得這部分我們可以尊重那如果交通部跟經濟部沒有沒有反對意見的話這部分我們可以尊重好那但是在雇傭關係前面的那個動詞我們建議還是要寫具有沒問題就不要是另訂這樣子"},{"start":25101.555,"end":25106.461,"text":"OK那我們是不是請他把文字打上去大家看一下是不是比較完善如果沒有意見我們這條應該是沒有什麼問題跟我"},{"start":25118.523,"end":25142.984,"text":"跟網友說明那個其實是當然那是一個論述可是其實比方說裡面會有幾個動詞比方說橫貧其實恐怕橫貧這個字比較不是法律上面的用字它比較是在論述上面的用字法律的話可能還是維護或保障這樣的用字"},{"start":25147.278,"end":25148.239,"text":"我們通常很優秀嘛"},{"start":25155.129,"end":25179.67,"text":"這個一定要採用了連部長自己都承認優秀這麼棒的一段文字為什麼不要放到母法本身呢對不對你讓那個認真的認真優秀的同仁我覺得他真的是很厲害他可以把這部法的所有的精神他用短短的這幾個字在第一條開宗明義的立法精神裡面寫的這麼的好"},{"start":25180.856,"end":25198.863,"text":"我覺得那個主席那就先保留我覺得這段文字真的要好好大家很細密的思考大家修法論法我真的覺得是沒錯所以委員那個剛剛有改上去請各位可以看一下那是不是請王後委司長再讀一下這段然後念一下然後看大家有沒有什麼意見對"},{"start":25203.36,"end":25220.887,"text":"我們第一條為保障外送員權益管理外送平台業者維護消費者及合作商家權益特制定本法外送員合作商家消費者之權益保障及外送平台業者管理依本法規定"},{"start":25221.907,"end":25239.131,"text":"本法未規定者適用其他法律之規定但外送平台業者與外送員間具有雇用關係者除適用第4條第5項第10條及第21條至第25條規定外其權益保障及處罰等事項依勞動基準法及其他相關法律規定處理那你那個你把你那個說明我很稱讚那段文字放另外一個版本會長怎樣"},{"start":25252.042,"end":25264.979,"text":"就是大家看嘛 其實寫得很好耶不然魔法怎麼不好寫就是他整段放上去 大家給他看一下嘛我覺得他寫得比"},{"start":25270.38,"end":25291.315,"text":"你料也想留見我好像得罪了兩位招委不會沒有其實其實是真的我覺得同仁很用心了他那段文字的論述我覺得真的很棒那你們覺得應該要怎麼調可以再調真的第一條我覺得就是要開中明義你這個版本的精神是什麼對我覺得他這樣的論述其實是非常好的你"},{"start":25308.114,"end":25310.457,"text":"好 那請林月琴委員發言我覺得這邊齁"},{"start":25313.365,"end":25339.279,"text":"我們的勞動部寫的 它事實上前端為因應外送平台產業的發展這些前面一直到關係這個事實上是背景那我覺得法律要把背景寫下來因為真正目的是保障外送員還有消費者跟合作商家它是前面的背景以至於有後邊的一個目的性所以我覺得當把背景都要寫上去的時候我覺得在一個法條裡面是要不適宜 以上"},{"start":25342.093,"end":25355.635,"text":"請劉建國委員發言對啦 我只是要誠懇的呼籲黃毓民委員那個主席剛剛修這樣已經蠻不錯了好不好 就讓主席好好處理好不好沒關係 我覺得各方的意見我們可以看看"},{"start":25356.98,"end":25382.623,"text":"如果真的可以接受的話我們就你剛剛已經叫市長去宣讀一次了現在他宣讀完之後又馬上改那剛剛上去好像毫無意義所以你不會毫無意義那都是他們的版本你不要肯定他們嘛那也都是他們的心血我剛剛是肯定主席的處理然後市長去宣讀然後現在又改了那等一下市長又再上去講一次那市長再講了我就聽不下去了"},{"start":25388.591,"end":25403.68,"text":"第一个这段文字是我们写的文字他放在立法说明其实我认为我们认为在条文里面是应该可以写的更精炼只要他涵盖的意思包括涵盖到这个说明的意思其实在母法里面的文字其实应该是要更精炼"},{"start":25404.48,"end":25429.755,"text":"那這段文字基本它還是會放在說明裡面所以大家在整個這個法案的系統裡面其實都還是會看得到的所以我們自己的確是認為說用原本的第一項其實就足以來去處理到包括剛才在講到說保障外送權益管理外送平台維護消費者跟合作商家權益特制定本法所有的動詞都在上面了"},{"start":25431.884,"end":25457.151,"text":"我是支持剛剛主席的處理啦 司長的宣讀啦如果要再改這樣 那我就建議保留了幾乎是這樣嘛好 那本條就保留好不好等一下第二輪再來討論來接下來到第二條我們是不是先請行政這個行政機關勞動部說明"},{"start":25460.266,"end":25474.964,"text":"主席各位第二條主要就是主管機關的權責的一些規範因為本法所涉及到的部會有相當多所以我們就為了避免未來的執行跟監管的權責不清所以我們就明定了各機關的權責"},{"start":25476.466,"end":25500.558,"text":"那確實有部分的委員版本沒有明定各機關的權責的事項那有的委員寫的文字內容可能不盡相同所以我們建議還是採用我們劉建國等16人的提案版本來通過以上說來有沒有委員有要發言的第二條"},{"start":25511.865,"end":25516.994,"text":"我想請羅廷輝委員發言我是覺得就建議通過趙偉的版本 廖趙偉謝謝"},{"start":25525.094,"end":25548.107,"text":"主席我只是想發問因為我看到很多委員的版本他都是把權責切分為勞動部交通部經濟部衛福部金融速發六大部會所以我只是擔心這個第二條最後會多頭馬車戶踢皮球我心中想到的一個例子比如說外送員因為感單發生車禍這個可能是交通部"},{"start":25548.767,"end":25575.634,"text":"主因是平台的演算法設計不當那這可能是速發部跟勞動部那屆時外送員應該要找誰來做這個申訴那是不是是不是應該建議要有一個單一的窗口或是主責的召集機關才不會讓外送員因為一個事件可能牽涉多個部門他會在各部會之間奔波這個是我對第二條的疑問"},{"start":25579.519,"end":25600.38,"text":"來請部長跟文說明第一個因為真的外送平台的業務涉及到很多部比方說勞動部很難去管合作商家的事情勞動部也很難去管消費者的事情我們基本上勞動部這邊我們是這個法會是這個法的主管機關但我主要管的一定是平台跟"},{"start":25601.261,"end":25630.656,"text":"外送員之間的勞動關係包括也許公安或職安上面的事情所以如果以剛剛成員該舉的例子來說他發生了他發生了這個事故的話交通事故的部分當然是交通部這邊但是他受傷了造成職災了我們勞動部一定管我沒有說他是他他是什麼什麼因為平台是因為演算法你用你是各種原因你只要發生了職災我就一定要管"},{"start":25632.932,"end":25648.606,"text":"我就一定要管對所以我們認為這個分工應該是沒有問題的因為如果今天不做這樣子的分工的話我以勞動部的部分我是沒有任何業務單位可以去管跟商家跟消費者等等的之間的這些關係的對謝謝請劉建國委員發言請劉建國委員發言"},{"start":25655.697,"end":25680.719,"text":"好 謝謝主席各位如果方便就再看一下大家法條在各個委員的版本再對一下我想我自己提出的版本應該是可以讓大家做個參考因為這一條是在規範各個機關的權責然後也為了避免執行或監管之權責不明所以我們才要明定各機關權責的事項"},{"start":25682.961,"end":25697.938,"text":"那當然有很多委員提出的版本都不錯不過蠻多委員的版本他是沒有去明定各機關全者事項各位看一下然後部分委員的版本明定各機關主管事項的處理方式又不盡相同"},{"start":25700.14,"end":25713.556,"text":"所以各位如果可以再細思養一下再看一下 再比對一下各位可以參考我跟其他委員的提案的草案是不是比較完整一些啦好 謝謝"},{"start":25720.731,"end":25741.128,"text":"我想要請教一下因為本席也是有分各個主管機關他們相關的權責包含主管機關包含交通主管機關經濟主管機關衛生福利金融速發以及其他外送員那我看這次也是七項那我跟劉昭偉的應該也是七項那我想要請教兩個有什麼不一樣的地方"},{"start":25742.9,"end":25762.602,"text":"跟主席報告我們的條文我們也討論過因為在法律上的文字上我們認為用主管這個這樣事項跟負責我們認為主管就是比較像我們一般的法律比較精確的用詞第二個就是監督管理跟規劃我們認為這個部分會比較模糊"},{"start":25763.263,"end":25786.342,"text":"所以我們認為要不要就是以比較精確的那個次項來明確化會不會比較因為將來這個文字上都是要各部會的圈子的區分所以我們要用主管奇怪我也是寫主管機關譬如說交通主管機關然後對不同的你可以看一下你的版本寫主管機關後面冒號你是寫負責"},{"start":25790.666,"end":25802.978,"text":"那在法律用詞上應該是要用主管還有一些地方還有一些其他地方我請我們市長來說明好那個OK所以就差這兩個字嘛"},{"start":25804.751,"end":25832.891,"text":"報告召委還有各位委員還有主管機關有關於勞動部的那個部分職業安全衛生所以少了衛生兩個字因為職業安全衛生法所以有衛生兩個字那另外一個就是保存外送員相關記錄然後保存動詞我們是放在前面召委的版本是放在後面其他的部分剛剛王市長說過了"},{"start":25833.672,"end":25856.215,"text":"OK好所以基本上是文字的這個差異但是沒問題我想要請問還有沒有其他委員有意見好請林月琴委員發言我想問一下趙偉這邊等下我們每一個這樣子討論一下因為為什麼剛剛有聽說按照趙偉的通過可是基本上"},{"start":25857.856,"end":25883.576,"text":"像譬如說在底下分裂所有的權責就各目的事業主管機關我的部分就跟您的部分事實上是不太一樣的像以交通主管機關來講好了直接講到只有負責交通召委的版本上就只有寫直接就寫說負責道路交通安全外送員交通安全教育訓練可是事實上交通部還有運駕的問題核定跟消費者保護還有個資"},{"start":25884.457,"end":25904.864,"text":"因為通常會在那邊各自保護才會進入到所謂道路交通安全這其他的相關事項所以是不是要逐一去討論因為第一個很多人版本事實上是只有列一個大項沒有列細項可是有列細項的話我覺得要逐一去看這些內涵到底有沒有一樣以上"},{"start":25906.736,"end":25933.257,"text":"來本席因為這個劉建國等16人劉建國委員等16人提案跟勞動部的布板幾乎是一樣的就是等於是布板了那我沒有要堅持因為我認為概念就是方向上是就是有分工每一個部會他有自己的權責所以我認為這條我沒有意見我可以依照這個劉建國委員跟布板這個意見就是等16人對的意見那"},{"start":25934.318,"end":25960.031,"text":"如果大家沒有問題的話我們這一題是不是這一條就是依照這樣子通過好不好依照佈板通過來依照劉建國委員提案通過佈板還沒進來佈板沒進來這個佈板是用這個建國委員的版本來提案這個16人的"},{"start":25966.94,"end":25967.493,"text":"對 十二人是不白"},{"start":25973.063,"end":26000.572,"text":"好 那第二條終於過了一條好 第二條很好 終於過了一條那來再來第三條那請那個勞動部說明主席各位委員第三條主要就是以本法很多的重要的名詞的名詞定義那我們特別要把許多後面法律上所會涉及到的各項的條文的名詞呢做一次的把它明確的定義那因為有部分委員的版本的用詞定義比較少"},{"start":26001.312,"end":26018.751,"text":"那我们希望比较广泛也比较清楚所以我们列的比较多那也把它列的比较详细那另外有委员的版本有提到那个外送消费契约的部分因为我们消保法已经规定了定型化契约的规定后续我们交通部在本法也有规定"},{"start":26019.472,"end":26035.985,"text":"交通部將來也會依照本法規定去訂定定型化契約應記載跟不應記載事項所以這個地方呢我們就外送消費契約好這個地方我們就不用放那因此我們還是建議以委員劉建國等16個人的提案的版本來通過以上說明"},{"start":26036.96,"end":26043.843,"text":"好請那個王玉民委員因為他有修正動議請說明一下我這邊有一個修正動議就是有把這個每筆訂單就是更明確化每筆訂單指的是僅包含一個取件地點以及一個送達地點之訂單那這個是避免就是食物上面可能會"},{"start":26057.37,"end":26084.224,"text":"有一些模糊的空間就讓他對讓他更明確是每一筆就是明確化每一筆訂單只能有一組取送地點那這個其實也是相對去保障我們這一些外送員的權益讓他更明確化那這個部分剛剛勞動部沒有回應這個是不是可以回應一下因為這個也還蠻關鍵的我們是應該要把它明確化好那是不是請市長回應一下主席謝謝王一鳴委員的詢問"},{"start":26087.406,"end":26108.605,"text":"確實在外送員他們在提很多的權益的地方這個是一個很重要的情形就是疊單那確實外送員常常就在質疑是說為什麼外送平台每次同一個餐廳或同一個消費者有好幾個訂單單只算一筆的給他的顯示的第二筆第三筆變得很低很低"},{"start":26109.486,"end":26129.323,"text":"那確實外送員工會有表達說這個每一單都要等值所以這樣的條文未來就是會改變了整個現在外送平台的對外送員在每一筆寄費的一個不同的差別換句話講在同一個餐廳取了三個餐去送給三個消費者會同時算三筆錢"},{"start":26130.524,"end":26144.292,"text":"每一筆的計算就會從我們等一下的那個條文裡面去做很明確的計算同時一個消費者點了三個餐一個外送員送了這拿了這三個餐到同一個消費者他也是算三筆"},{"start":26146.073,"end":26174.544,"text":"的費用所以這樣的規定會產生這樣的一個很大的改變現在的效果當然這也是外送員現在對平台最大的遲疑的部分也是單單不等值那這樣條文就會改變這樣一個狀況以上說明我們尊重對我們尊重"},{"start":26177.524,"end":26197.357,"text":"這個是定義嘛我覺得這個定義就是我們把它定義清楚那這樣子我覺得也因為既然你們剛剛前面一直強調說我們這部法是外送員的權益保障勞動部主管那這涉及到權益保障就的確要清楚那我跟他們有什麼差別"},{"start":26220.217,"end":26238.831,"text":"這個不是 現在這是修正動議拔加上去對針對這個新增的有沒有委員有什麼或者是還有沒有其他委員針對這一條有要發表意見主席"},{"start":26242.442,"end":26259.874,"text":"請陳昭之委員發言 因為竟然爭議點在這個地方我們就這一次就把它弄清楚了所以剛剛我有連署這樣的一個意見修訂我覺得這是名詞定義啦先把定清楚那當然條文可能會去未來也是會去深入的去探討OK"},{"start":26270.913,"end":26296.863,"text":"那請問一下還有沒有委員針對這一條有意見好 如果這一條沒有問題的話我們就是不是仲裁各位委員的意見然後就送出"},{"start":26299.012,"end":26314.645,"text":"OK有嗎 有 劉昭偉有沒有意見OK支持喔 支持喔好那就照王玉民委員修正動議然後不一樣 仲裁啦仲裁對因為這是對"},{"start":26318.721,"end":26338.03,"text":"對前面是院辦草案布板前面是布板而前面是劉建國等16人的再加上這一條的修正動議好所以是仲裁仲裁各委員的意見修正通過好OK第三條就結束了再來第第四條"},{"start":26341.068,"end":26359.317,"text":"主席各位委員第四條謝謝各位委員的提案主要委員們提案就是希望中央組織機關定期邀請平台業者消費者團體等等然後就整個本法有關法規跟執行進行檢討協調以及改進等等"},{"start":26360.137,"end":26387.796,"text":"那也跟各位報告我們訂了這個法以後呢確實我們未來也會很滾動式的來做檢討那我們會隨時也會跟各個利害關係的相關的部會跟團體也都會去盤點然後進行所有的檢討跟改善這個部分我們一定會繼續做所以這個地方是不是就不用在這裡做明定我們一定會做這樣的後續的執行上的一個檢討跟處理以上說明"},{"start":26388.959,"end":26411.079,"text":"好 那有沒有委員有相關意見 請盧憲宜委員發言第四條就是接單費的標準就是我這邊增加的是中央機關核定接單費率前因省著相關法規地理區域地區偏遠的程度 外送的距離 路況的難易度及相關的營運成本和地差別化的外送服務基本願價"},{"start":26418.147,"end":26439.424,"text":"召委那個第二張這個名稱有沒有要處理沒有現在是第4條現在在講現在是第4條是說有沒有要定期剛剛勞動部有回應他就說這個是不是不要定因為他們會定期的去檢討"},{"start":26444.232,"end":26449.967,"text":"所以不是這個不是畫面上的應該是第4條對下面的是這個對"},{"start":26453.097,"end":26477.144,"text":"好那這裡勞動部的意見是說這一條是不用訂就是因為他們會定期去檢討和持續做這個持續跟各個利害關係人去溝通那請問這一條有沒有委員有意見針對勞動部的意見尊重好尊重勞動部意見那如果沒有的話這部分就是依照勞動部的意見就不予採納"},{"start":26483.561,"end":26509.591,"text":"好那接下來是第二章第二章的章名那這部分有沒有相關的意見如果我有沒有意見的話我們就依照這個版本通過謝謝好那再來是再來就是第4條再來是第4條對第二章之後的第4條"},{"start":26513.277,"end":26530.943,"text":"主席各位委員有關於第四條主要我們這個第四條條文就是涉及到我們特別對於外送員跟外送平台之間的契約因為相對上外送員比較弱勢所以我們會訂定地形化契約而且印記載跟不印記載四項"},{"start":26532.103,"end":26561.723,"text":"那我们这里也特别有强调有包括他的报酬计算停权终止外送服务契约申诉制度保险还有外送服务的基本流程专人服务的联络方式我们都会未来在那个定型化契约里面去明定那我们也特别强调说平台跟一页外送员成立的外送服务契约如果有违反我们公告定型化契约应记载跟不应记载事项他其实是无效那如果他没有记载也会成为契约的强制变得契约的内容"},{"start":26562.544,"end":26583.921,"text":"那外送平台他要去變更或增補外送服務契約的重要的權利事項應該經外送員同意而且也不可以用不利對待的方式強迫外送員同意變動或增補那我們最後一個特別一個效果的規定就是未經外送員同意就是用網際網路公告郵件書面等方式去通知不勝效力"},{"start":26584.722,"end":26606.579,"text":"那這次的這個內容裡面我們在這裡就希望還是採用這個劉建國的版本主要的原因是我們部分委員的版本是把很多的內容寫得非常的詳細那我們是不是留一個空間將來我們在我們的定型化契約裡面再來做處理"},{"start":26607.299,"end":26622.154,"text":"然後也有部分委員提到演算法那確實演算法是一個很創新目前這個在世界上大家很多國家也都在面對演算法這樣的一個題目"},{"start":26622.794,"end":26639.846,"text":"那對我們來講這是還是剛開始所以呢為了讓整個企業的營運保有一個競爭性然後也對於我們對保護他的一些勞工朋友外從人的權益有一些保障的話的前提之下"},{"start":26640.786,"end":26655.84,"text":"我們是不是可以不要在這個地方很快的去訂定這樣子的一個演算法的規範然後損害到這個創新還有企業的競爭力所以我們這裡還是建議採用我們的劉建國委員的版本來因為剛第4條那個盧縣議委員剛好像有發言有提問喔那縣議委員你有要再說明一下嗎"},{"start":26666.806,"end":26692.445,"text":"我是針對片地區的一些外送距離跟營運成本能不能有差別化的一個服務的基本運價所以這個部分後委司長是不是要回應一下縣議委員縣議委員有關於那個報酬的計算我們會放在第5條那是不是在第5條的時候我們再來一併來討論"},{"start":26695.592,"end":26705.838,"text":"好OK那縣議委有第5條的時候討論OK嗎接下來OK好那這個第4條的話就依照勞動部的建議通過"},{"start":26718.112,"end":26744.756,"text":"那個第四條的部分其他委員的版本都有寫到那個接單費的標準計算方法發放日對然後劉建國委員的版本這個都沒有這個在對照的條文上面這是不同是第五嘛對不對所以你們要講一下因為這樣子變成好像跟其他委員的版本那個條次就是又不一樣"},{"start":26746.243,"end":26770.291,"text":"第四條主要就是外送員的服務契約只是定型化契約但其他委員會變成是在講那個接單的對 那接單我們一併會都在後面的第五條報酬的部分來做處理都要第五條嘛 對不對對 這個要講一下要不然很怕就這樣直接跳第四條都是外送服務契約的一些效力跟我們這樣訂的大致的一個方向跟內容好"},{"start":26772.95,"end":26800.575,"text":"好第4條沒有問題的話就依照勞動部的意見通過依照這個劉健國委員等16人的通過要不板的不板草案來第5條這個是今天的"},{"start":26807.287,"end":26821.857,"text":"OK 因為這裡還有一個第二張本來有另外一個名稱叫外送員薪資計算基準的這個名稱那是不是這個部分是勞動部這裡就不予採納好不予採納"},{"start":26827.659,"end":26829.501,"text":"好那再來進入到第5條第5條先請這個勞動部來請勞動部說明"},{"start":26834.008,"end":26856.75,"text":"好我先說明一下因為在當然留言的第5條裡面主要處理的就是關於報酬的保障那我想先跟委員們先說明勞動部隊報酬保障的最基本的概念因為確實報酬的保障有不同的方式但我們認為有幾個部分會是希望用政府用法律的方式來處理"},{"start":26857.971,"end":26877.027,"text":"第一个因为过去其实平台的确已经蛮多次单方面的调降报酬那这个调降报酬的过程也造成蛮多的争议那甚至外送人也对这部分有很多的委屈包括也不满"},{"start":26877.968,"end":26903.602,"text":"所以我們認為在這個在這個情境之下的確會需要對於報酬有一個最低的地板保障所以第一個是最低地板保障這是第一個概念那第二個概念很重要是過去在報酬的平台給予外送人的報酬裡面也常有時候外送人會把它戲稱為像抽盲盒就是你不確定到底同一段路在"},{"start":26904.262,"end":26930.06,"text":"同一个情境到底你会拿到多少报酬所以基本上大家会希望这个报酬是一个可验算或者是可预期的所以可验算跟可预期其实是报酬的处理里面我们认为第二个概念所以基本上我们是在这两个概念下面来设计这些报酬相关的方案保障的方案"},{"start":26930.64,"end":26941.387,"text":"那现在委员们的版本的确蛮多的版本比方说三分之一的基本费等等最低工资我们的确认为这这样算起来是比较高的"},{"start":26942.915,"end":26962.012,"text":"我们认为这的确会是比较高的所以这也是为什么我们现在部里面我也跟各位坦诚其实在因为我们现在这个所谓的预告版部的预告版就留言的这个版本里面其实现在是过了预告其实大家有一些意见所以我们其实的确有些方案也在这里面做一些思考"},{"start":26962.933,"end":26981.805,"text":"那但是就现在几个委员的版本里面假设是要用是要到这个基本费的三分之一的最低工资我们认为这的确会是一个相对比较高的这个状况好那请这个王玉明委员发言接下来请邱振军委员然后再请王建豪委员"},{"start":26982.835,"end":27005.675,"text":"謝謝莊委 我想第5條是這次修法的很關鍵的核心這個是過去我們看到很多外送員他其實權力不對等 外送平台要怎麼去設定他的演算法 或者是說他要降低他的獎金最近又傳出來說直接獎金 他說降低就降低"},{"start":27006.335,"end":27013.361,"text":"那這樣的一個浮動是任意式的調整的確對於我們的外送員來講是非常沒有保障的"},{"start":27013.973,"end":27041.24,"text":"那今天我們要來討論這部法當然就是回到怎麼樣給他們最基本的保障那在我原來提出來的版本原本就是希望是不得低於基本工資三分之一就是給一個樓地板就是很明確的這一個樓地板那剛剛這個部長有提到說這樣的算法會變成是比較高那我想問的就是說什麼是高什麼是低"},{"start":27042,"end":27061.101,"text":"是不是勞動部可以提供數據給大家就是說目前這一些平台喔他的營業的這一些獲利率或者是說他的營收或者是世界各國當他們在訂這個最低保障的時候是不是同時會看到現在平台到底他"},{"start":27062.101,"end":27082.369,"text":"包括他跟商家他大概收取了多少%的这样子的一个费用等等那他的获利是不是已经是过高那这样的调整我们是回到合理的调整我现在有点担心我现在好像有人在带风向说这次修法过后我们的外送的费用会全面的调高"},{"start":27083.149,"end":27098.761,"text":"用這個好像用消費者跟外送員的那個對立來做這樣的一個恐嚇我個人覺得很不可取就是說我們應該是要回到一個事實我們今天是要保障外送員有一個基本合理的他的這個收益"},{"start":27099.401,"end":27115.655,"text":"那如果有人刻意去帶風向說這個法通過之後我們外送費會全面調高那我覺得不應該是這樣子去放這樣的一個消息而是應該回到我們我們這個之前好像這個我記得平台業者好像也對外說這個外送員已經都有什麼"},{"start":27116.394,"end":27135.168,"text":"他們現在的那個合理的費用可能是多少等等我不曉得主案機關有沒有掌握到現在這些數據我們今天修法是一個非常合理的一個調整但是如果有人要藉此說澳法通過之後大幅調高所有的外送費用然後把那個成本轉嫁到消費者身上我覺得那個就是不合理"},{"start":27135.968,"end":27165.252,"text":"那就是刻意去操弄這件事情我覺得那個是完全不對的所以是不是主管機關可以提供給大家一個比較客觀的資訊剛剛因為部長一直在講說一個合理就是說如果你們算出來1.25倍相對是合理的那就表示說外送平台不應該根據這一次的修法通過之後去調高大幅調高價格你懂我意思嗎就是說現在因為外送平台也對外宣稱說他們給的都是合理的價錢那現在到底是給到什麼"},{"start":27165.692,"end":27169.949,"text":"那如果我們現在今天過了一個提供樓地板的基本的保障"},{"start":27170.956,"end":27194.903,"text":"那我們並沒有大幅去增加什麼平台業者的費用或什麼如果他今天說你法通過因為給了最低保障之後所以呢我要調高這個所有消費者將來這個所有的那個費用支付的費用我覺得這樣是不合理的這個是我們在修法過程要去避免的而且也避免有人用這個再去炒作一波"},{"start":27196.203,"end":27211.955,"text":"對就是把轉嫁給消費者那這樣也是不合理的可不可以提供一些數據出來因為你們竟然可以算出1.25倍嗎我覺得是合理的好不好跟委員說明其實在現在部的預告板"},{"start":27212.735,"end":27239.296,"text":"就是留言的版本里面基本上我们并没有去就是说我们并没有办法一下一定拿到平台他的真实的财务状况是如何所以我们认为我们自己认为在我们现在版本的理据理据的概念是因为这是定的是地板所以我们认为这个地板一定是要有最低工资的概念"},{"start":27240.686,"end":27262.48,"text":"OK所以他有最低工资的概念那所以他会我们认为他应该要跟我们的最低工资来联动就是我举个例子劳动部我们不会去定我们不会去定这个因为你这个行业的薪资比较高我就要定你比较高的薪资的底线我不会我们基本上是管的是那个最低工资的这件事情"},{"start":27264.44,"end":27282.107,"text":"那所以我但是外送员的工作跟一般去超商打工我们认为有不同的地方是外送员他还要负担他的运具的油资折旧维修损耗的等等那在这个里面是有一套交通部的公式的"},{"start":27282.987,"end":27300.372,"text":"所以是最低工资再加上外送员要负担油资损耗折旧维修等等的成本公务局有一套算法把它算进去基本上我们算起来的话会是最低工资的1.25倍"},{"start":27302.453,"end":27329.046,"text":"那未来最低工资如果调整的时候那这个1.25倍大概就要跟着最低工资来联动我们的逻辑是这样子的所以我们的逻辑基本上是一个围绕着最低工资去抓地板的概念所以我们并不是说今天有一家平台他的财务状况比较好我的地板就要定高一点有一家平台他的他的财务状况比较差我的地板就要定低一点我们的概念不是这样子对"},{"start":27331.505,"end":27350.594,"text":"剛剛在講就是說基本上我們今天修法是訂出一個合理的然後也是覺得應該是要符合現況維持這樣的一個標準的但是現在之前媒體就是有報導有人就說這個法通過之後會大幅調高未來這個外送的費用"},{"start":27352.015,"end":27377.037,"text":"如果有這樣的情況我覺得也是不合理的因為我們今天只是剛剛部長已經講了我們今天訂的是給外送員合理的基本的保障就這樣而已不會因為這次的修法通過之後就有外送平台業者要大幅去調高外送費用轉嫁給消費者這也不應該發生因為我們今天是訂合理你剛一直在強調我們今天是訂一個合理的費用而已並不是一個"},{"start":27378.198,"end":27400.346,"text":"超高的费用你还刚刚还说我们原来委员提的这个基本工资三分之一你说那个是比较高啊是对不对是表示你有个比较的基准啊所以高跟低啊我跟委员说明比方说那如果通过你这个版本1.25倍我个人就觉得外送平台不应该是大幅去去调高外送费应该没有那个不应该有这样的现象才对跟委员说明第一个"},{"start":27401.4,"end":27418.876,"text":"的確現在在不同的區域裡面有些外送員他的報酬會比較高有些區域他的外送報酬是比較低那我們的確看到有一些地方他的外送報酬是拿的比最低工資來的低的那我們當然現在就要要求他在每一個"},{"start":27420.509,"end":27442.565,"text":"這個跑的跑單的這個時間裡面這個服務期間裡面我們認為要要求他至少要在最低工資然後再加上他的這個助理負擔的成本我們認為這是我們所謂合理的邏輯是在這個地方我們合理的邏輯是從這個出發點的對部長不應該因為這個法通過去轉下去對大幅高高外送費就是我覺得這一點是我們"},{"start":27452.615,"end":27479.026,"text":"平台去就是現在我們看到因為我們也去看了很多外送人他實際上面他拿到的報酬是有一些他的平均是高於這個數字也會有一些低於這個數字所以現在的確會有一些低於這個數字的我們要要求他要把他假設是用這1.25倍的話他是要拉到這個數字上這的確他在這部分平台是會增加成本"},{"start":27484.479,"end":27510.217,"text":"我跟委員說我們的意思是說今天從我今天從勞動部的角度我們就是希望工作者都可以有一定的至少一定的地板的保障可是你實際薪資拿的高或低這個事情不是我勞動部我可以要去做官的事情所以我們只是說這個地板的保障有沒有理論基礎"},{"start":27511.849,"end":27539.895,"text":"有沒有利潤的基礎那我們提出來的利潤基礎就是我剛才說的這樣是一個跟著最低工資再加上他這個他要負擔的這些硬體的成本油資的耗材成本我們的利潤基礎是來自於這邊我知道我在跟部長講的是說你剛有講有些地方他其實比基本工資還要更好有一些他現在可能還不達到現在的這個1.25倍"},{"start":27541.155,"end":27554.285,"text":"所以對平台業者來講他本來他現況他多的跟少的他平衡下來不要因為通過這個法他要去全面調高消費者的外送費這個是不合理的"},{"start":27556.366,"end":27571.252,"text":"我沒有辦法去但你們應該注意這個現象應該是說我跟委員說明的確平台現在他宣稱給的平均的的報酬目前他宣稱給的平均報酬是超過現在我們所謂的1.25倍的這是他宣稱的"},{"start":27573.055,"end":27595.576,"text":"那有些高有些低但是我們沒有辦法我沒有辦法當平台代言說他接下來的各種行為一定是這樣還是一定是那樣但我們能夠定的是他至少是那個最低的基本保障他的利潤我們認為要經得起考驗這個羅天威委員邱政軍委員歡迎"},{"start":27596.244,"end":27614.798,"text":"我等很久了這個看起來剛剛我這樣聽了一下我看布裡面這個對我們這個劉建國委員的這個版本是情有獨鍾但是這個也沒關係因為我們本來就要支持這個專法就是要照顧這個外送員"},{"start":27615.518,"end":27638.597,"text":"那當然啦剛剛我們域民委員講的還有我們縣議委員講的就是要這個周詳的評估那當然我們要了解說多少成本會造成多少傷害等等我們要取得外送員消費者餐飲業與平台業者四方的權益啦這是我們這個立這個法的一個最重要的一個目的也是今天的重頭戲當然我們有人在講說這個專法過了100%會這個"},{"start":27643.261,"end":27672.008,"text":"會提高消費者的負擔當然我更認為就是說其實法如果立得剛好的話就是還是要回歸市場機制你不做就別人做這個當然我們也要考量我只是希望說尤其是我們偏遠的地方尤其是偏鄉不是非都市區它可能會造成它的成本的增加等等那是不是會影響到我們這些消費者的權益我想這一併也要考量一下"},{"start":27673.148,"end":27698.802,"text":"當然我剛剛看到我們委員的版本劉建國委員的版本是很多人支持的部長也說明了1.25倍的當初訂的基準我也希望說今天開這個會我們部裡面能夠再落實一下剛剛講的這些數據能夠把這個東西傷害減到最低最好是四方都能夠受益以上報告 謝謝"},{"start":27700.376,"end":27723.95,"text":"好那請你剛換你嗎黃建豪委員然後等一下再換黃建豪委員完羅廷偉委員然後羅廷偉委員完李坤哲委員然後再來是陳昭之委員和范雲委員好不好你要記得喔這個好我想今天這個最主要當然"},{"start":27730.854,"end":27759.832,"text":"可以保等一下那个换换换一个麦克风那个麦克风没声音抱歉今天最重要就巴黎部长也提到说要有一个所谓的最低的地板保障的数字那到底基本肺部的低于基本工资的三分之一如果是太高的话假设是这样子那到底多少的数字是觉得合理我觉得这要把它入法包括后续的契约怎么定但是我们今天希望立法的一个标准说至少要把最低楼地板的"},{"start":27760.512,"end":27778.693,"text":"这个数字来把定进去那到底要占多少好这部分我觉得可能劳动部有一个如果你们觉得三分之一太高的话那到底多少数字合理的我觉得这是要提出来的那另外之前交通部提说要放所谓的外送运驾准则的公告等等里面包含说要放进刚刚提到的这个等待费啊楼层费啊"},{"start":27780.074,"end":27808.437,"text":"里程费啦还有这个那个什么春节的这个家家等等的这部分我们希望说要透明一点就说到底我把这个这些钱灌进所谓的订单之后那灌进去之后那个钱到底是给平台拿走了还是说这个是属于这个额外送源的因为刚刚提到说不然等待也好或是我要上楼也好或是我这个春节家家我我春节出来送单这件事情这是个人的行为这跟平台有没有必然的关系我觉得这个是需要"},{"start":27809.778,"end":27826.448,"text":"来把它一并讨论进去所以我觉得这包含基本费在内如果三分之一太高的话那到底多少比较比较合理因为包含之前我想在11月多的新闻里面提到说目前平台公布的时薪基本上也超过的所谓的245元所以他其实如果按照这个标准放进去的话"},{"start":27827.489,"end":27856.269,"text":"这我们就我所理解的一般外送员在送这个送单的状况下面一小时大概三到四单左右所以我们才有这样的基准说所谓的三分之一那另外一部分就是说现在的问题是我们想解决的事情就是说在这个他叠单的过程里面我是消费者国庭委也定网友也定我们同时间定之后叠单的过程我们都有付所谓的外送费进去但是平台并不会把所谓的我们三个人付的外送费给那个外送我相信这大家都很清楚"},{"start":27857.301,"end":27872.415,"text":"所以我们今天为什么要定所谓的三分之一为什么要定所谓楼地板是希望这部分能够把它保障进去不要说叠单之后全部都是由平台业者拿去赚走而已我想我们希望说执行这个劳务的执行这个工作的外送人本人"},{"start":27873.175,"end":27896.026,"text":"所以这相关的费用应该是给这个人才对而不是全部都又回到平台去分配而已如果最后全部回到平台分配的话这个法律的意义就不存在了所以我觉得说还是要很明确的今天的重点或目标数字多少我就大概讨论但就是要把所有的楼地板楼地板的数字把它定出来以上谢谢好请罗廷伟委员发言"},{"start":27899.042,"end":27906.885,"text":"我想這一條重中之重大家都非常有建議但剛剛其實勞動部有講到有的有高有的有超低"},{"start":27908.035,"end":27934.145,"text":"我认为这个我们今天就是在处理这个超低的部分那今天把超低变成符合最低薪资这个是最基本的我们不应该在任何的工作的前提之下维护劳权不应该有任何的所谓被剥削的一个情形所以今天我们在处理超低的部分那所以今天不管是三分之一或是最低薪资我们都希望今天把楼地板定好以后能够对这一个外送员"},{"start":27934.915,"end":27957.421,"text":"所謂的基本的一個權益來做一個保障但是目前我們看到就是有人在放消息或者是透過特定的這樣子的一個新聞媒體去報導讓所謂的這些消費者的權益會感到擔憂我們也要跟這些不管是觀看直播的還有全體的國人特別報告我們在維護的是"},{"start":27958.101,"end":27979.166,"text":"所謂的最低薪資的權益那今天我們也都是可以開放性去討論這些內容但是也希望說大家一定要對這個法令上對於這個開放性討論給予一個期待因為我們現在看到他們一直在宣稱可能到了245元以上這是外送平台在說的最低薪資外送"},{"start":27979.646,"end":27997.567,"text":"平台说是245甚至有到达260到290那我们今天都只是维护最低薪资所以也希望说今天的开放性讨论并不会造成民众的恐慌那最后我还是希望说目前劳动部用这样子的邮件国的委员的版本其实我觉得是乐观其成"},{"start":27998.865,"end":28027.985,"text":"好那谢谢罗廷伟委员发言接下来请陈昭之委员发言应该是我啦对应该是我啦那李坤晨先对李坤晨先哎呦这登记之后马上就乱掉了然后是昭之然后是范宇委员然后是我是你是你是请说请说好谢谢主席这个讨论这个第五条是相当重要就关键的就是我们外送员他的性质那我的版本跟刘建国的版本他其实比我"},{"start":28029.407,"end":28047.269,"text":"還要更好因為我的是這一個是不得低於每小時最低工資是1倍它是最低工資的1.25倍其他的我都跟劉建國委員的應該都是大致上是雷同的"},{"start":28048.05,"end":28065.723,"text":"但是有一个比较不一样是有关于这个小费那个外送员是消费者取得的小费是属于外送员跟消费者之间的个别给付不得记录前项所定的报酬总额因为有时候比如说像今天比较冷"},{"start":28066.423,"end":28093.29,"text":"今天比较冷你这个晚上很冷你要这个外送员要去送这些东西或是今天下雨要去送天气状况会影响到那有一些人觉得说我这个外送员的服务态度很好或者说还要爬楼梯上去等等之类的他会额外给予这个外送员这些小费那我的版本里面是希望说这个消费者给予这一个外送员之间的这一个小费等于是"},{"start":28093.95,"end":28115.963,"text":"這個外送員他的一個服務那不應該記錄這個我們前面所規定的這個報酬的總額裡面那我希望說是不是也能夠把這點納進去也鼓勵我們的這個外送員如果你表現得好那當然就是消費者願意給你更多的一點酬勞那就是好像我們是有時候去外面餐廳一樣有時候會給你多一點"},{"start":28116.583,"end":28131.969,"text":"多了一些小費除了基本的這個消費之外會多給點小費我想是不是在外送員這部分也能夠把他拉進去那沒有列入這一個我們之前所定的這個報酬總額以上說明謝謝謝謝林輝誠委員發言請陳昭芝委員發言"},{"start":28134.032,"end":28154.164,"text":"謝謝謝謝主席雖然有一部分是雷同的相同的那個意見但是民眾黨的這個我們的版本還是第一個是就是不得低於基本工資的這個三分之一那部長您一直說這個比較高那個高你應該有個評比是比誰高怎麼高法"},{"start":28154.924,"end":28181.595,"text":"就是這是第一個就是說我們的主張是如此但是今天這個版本我們在討論的時候其實外送員其實我相信包括合作商家或是甚至這個消費者大家是又期待又怕受傷害我們今天立這個專法是在保障主要要保障這個外送員因為這個新興的行業其實已經耽擱了十幾年但是一方面我們並不期待說在這個法通過之後造成這個"},{"start":28182.955,"end":28212.081,"text":"大家受害的受伤害的反而是消费者跟这个商家等等其他刚刚大家就认为要有四个stakeholder大概有至少四方这是非常重要的原则所以这是第一个我想说有一个楼地板将不得低于基本工资三分之一这个概念跟医药是药品是很像每一类药品为什么大家会退出市场就不再提供基本上有一些东西比如你做个糖浆有个基本的工资打定剂有个基本的大品点有个基本的底"},{"start":28212.661,"end":28232.403,"text":"才不會出現像我們上次生理實驗所整個大缺貨所以這個概念是這樣我們就是要保障這個外送人這個最基本的一個概念在裡面所以我要請教勞動部你們有沒有把每個版本的這個所提出的版本的計算過每一分鐘大概平均多少錢你們有做過這個功課嗎"},{"start":28233.644,"end":28253.935,"text":"每一個人提出每個黨團或每個委員提出的版本真的非常辛苦把這些資料匯整起來其實2023年台灣民眾提出全國第一個版本只是沒有機會來進行盤審那等一下我要請勞動部來回答你有算過嗎那你這個我想要了解那麼再來就是說"},{"start":28255.638,"end":28274.87,"text":"其实外送平台他们宣称目前他们的工资他们所提供的工资其实依照我们今天的这些规格算出来好像他们已经付出超过至少不低于目前我们这个几个版本期待的这个工资那这个既然如此我们可不可能就说"},{"start":28275.911,"end":28290.229,"text":"还是要确保劳动部你还是要确保不要因为这个专法通过然后用各种理由借故不管是怎么对外送商家的部分还有消费者部分你有办法去做一个"},{"start":28291.01,"end":28297.232,"text":"保障嗎 據我們了解其實國際的資料 其實勞動部應該是有我們這邊也有很多國際相關的 因為這個都是外來的他們在其他國家對於合作廠商他們的抽成跟在台灣的抽成等等這些數字是可受公平的"},{"start":28314.297,"end":28341.488,"text":"然後我要在這個請勞動部先幫我算一下你們認為高那你請問每個版本每個委員的版本算出來每分鐘多少錢那我要請教這個交通部你這個基本運價我想說運價這個訂定的機制是如何你是怎麼訂出來的是交通部自己訂還是會有外部學者專家平台業者外送公會代表一起討論那我再請問公平會如果專法通過和外送平台聯合漲價"},{"start":28343.089,"end":28352.257,"text":"公平會你有能力處理嗎我想這幾個問題就請等一下就請相關部會能夠回答好謝謝好那請范雲委員發言"},{"start":28356.247,"end":28375.163,"text":"我自己的这个第9条的关于这个费用的部分就是报酬的部分是以就是每小时的基本报酬就换算之后不得低于最低工资法所定的每小时的最低工资因为我是想说我们是保障那楼地板应该是用最低工资法"},{"start":28375.703,"end":28400.382,"text":"但是我后来看了刘建国委员的他是1.25倍就是换算之后我觉得是更好因为就是他有请教他他有提到这其实还有油费对不对然后摩托车还有折旧费等那我想我们既然是保障那把这些费用算进去其实是合理的譬如计程车也有一个起价的钱"},{"start":28400.842,"end":28419.554,"text":"因为就是不是只是他开的费用因为他的车子会折旧各方面所以我是希望支持刘建国委员这个版本那当然就是如果大家要用更多的时间因为我觉得这个薪资保障是非常重要的我也会支持我们花更多的时间讨论怎么样是最有保障的"},{"start":28421.499,"end":28447.375,"text":"好 請林月琴委員發言好我覺得今天主要就是外送員的權益要被保障所以在這部分大家會討論這麼多也無非事實上是要去考慮到過去很多爭議事實上是他們突然被片面通知然後等於他的每一單裡邊的費用尤其是第一單然後最後夾單又都沒有錢這我們之前也開過記者會"},{"start":28449.416,"end":28469.419,"text":"那我自己写的原来事实上是最低工资就是每小时最低工资那我觉得现在刘委员的比我们的还要高1.25那刚刚劳动部也讲过说为什么会去用1.25那因为有考虑到油资折旧维修的费用这些相关的事项"},{"start":28470.66,"end":28497.638,"text":"那当然有些委员也有提出来说那每小时最低工资三分之一那刚刚一直在问劳动部有没有利润基础他刚刚已经提出说他1.25倍事实上他的那个算出来利润基础已经是存在可反而就是说每小时最低工资的三分之一那也要回过头来看有没有利润基础这个点到底事实上因为我们讲说这四个的权益都要被保障的时候要去考虑"},{"start":28498.078,"end":28516.337,"text":"所以以这样子看的话今天我觉得很难达成达成共识尤其刚才前面讲的就是说我们没笔订单我们后面还去考虑到夹单跟叠单的问题的话我认为劳动部应该要在这一题应该要再去更怎么去让我们的"},{"start":28517.398,"end":28545.718,"text":"外送员的权益被保障到我相信身为我们的劳动权益的主管机关应该会去考量所以我认为这一题不应该在这时候去这么仓促的去做这样的讨论应该保留然后让他们有时间否则的话你先讲三分之一一个讲1.25倍那我的原来最低就用所以我本来看刘委员的我觉得OK啊1.25倍那可是如果在讲叠单夹单的那种状况里边怎么去中整然后以"},{"start":28546.839,"end":28561.344,"text":"外送員最佳利益來考慮的話那怎麼去做處理我覺得應該不是在今天這麼短的時間尤其是其他版本又沒有辦法提出來說有些利潤基礎在哪邊而要來討論我就不適合所以我覺得保留以上請劉建國委員發言"},{"start":28563.232,"end":28577.171,"text":"因為他對我的提案有所保留所以我必須講一下這個我們是要確保外送員的基本的這樣的一個收入的保障我剛剛聽勞動部所講還有我自己的提案裡面這個很清楚"},{"start":28578.953,"end":28594.052,"text":"機車 機慢車一定有孫模這個孫模一定是在成本裡面這是其一然後再來它也有一定的風險存在這裡要把它衡量進去然後它也有油資哪怕電動車也要去充電"},{"start":28594.913,"end":28621.678,"text":"等等等等零零總總加起來這個不叫灌進去的這個原本就是在這個外送員的一個他需要得到一個合理報酬裡面我們必須要去把它精算出來合理的精算出來我想這是一個這是對於這個法律來講我個人感覺這個是叫做基本功基本功嘛如果連這個基本功我們都做不到那我們今天訂這個法律那那個意義都已經不見了"},{"start":28622.498,"end":28639.9,"text":"那我現在那個交通部那個市長有來吧市長市長我們是要保障低寒就最少多少起跳嘛對不對那你怎麼去給人家頂上限你們的基本運價是頂上限你知道嗎對啊我看很恐怖的"},{"start":28642.832,"end":28670.125,"text":"來 我看這一段喔 你看喔你們有一個 今天交通部是不是有預告一個外送合理的運駕準則嘛那過去坦白講 都以四輪車輛為主嘛機慢車你們是沒有 兩輪的你不一定過所以你要去參考過去的四輪來訂定這個交通運駕的準則用在機慢車的身上顯然有些問題交通部現在是把這套公式來訂對這個消費者收費的上限價格"},{"start":28672.096,"end":28689.468,"text":"收費者的上限價格那看起來我就覺得怪怪的因為我剛剛特別講說我們今天立這個法定了這個準則跟這個主要的核心的目的是要保障外送員夥伴的這個權益嘛剛剛講我就不再追溯然後外送員面臨的問題他們需要是一個基本的價格的一個保障"},{"start":28690.228,"end":28714.847,"text":"所以勞動部剛剛有特別提到了嘛而不是說並不是說他們要向平台業者或是商家還是消費者要去收取多少的報酬所以我說那不是管理我們本來就在身份裡面嘛這應該大家就先做那我們這套公司在我們這部法案的運用裡面它絕對不是用來處理上限而必須是拿來處理外送員外送員端的報酬的這個最低的這樣的一個保障嘛"},{"start":28716.067,"end":28730.596,"text":"但是反而裡面交通部訂的運駕這個準則反而是在訂一個上限這個我覺得有點大的衝突喔你們可能要回應一下還是要有所思考謝謝主席 謝謝"},{"start":28731.616,"end":28746.431,"text":"好謝謝劉昭偉我整理一下我覺得第一個要請勞動部花一點時間好好的因為這都有記錄好好的解釋一下我剛剛有很多委員其實想要問的就是說現在外面包含可能很多網路風向會說一定會全面漲價"},{"start":28747.492,"end":28766.399,"text":"或者等等的會怎麼樣就是轉嫁到消費者身上那我想這個勞動部可不可以好好回答一下剛剛在好好講清楚一次可不可以告訴大眾客觀的事實是什麼比如說剛剛你們有提到說有平台業者說每小時是多少錢我記得上次公聽會人家那個平台業者自己有講平常講他就是講290對不對"},{"start":28768.32,"end":28795.217,"text":"市長也在點頭 他講290嘛那你現在訂的基本到頭1.25是多少245 對不對好 所以我想剛剛的委員想要跟你們講的事情是勞動部可不可以好好解釋一下說因為包含勞動部長前陣子在新聞上面也有說過消費者不用擔心漲價那是不是可以把這個部分再一次講清楚一點讓大家 讓所有委員在現場也都可以理解然後怎麼訂的這是我想第一個問題喔"},{"start":28796.178,"end":28819.515,"text":"那剛剛招資委員也有說到就是那假設如果被漲價啦等等那公平會怎麼樣呢那還有委員也提到交通部的部分等一下是不是也一併回答一下那請勞動部回應還是要跟各位委員說明其實勞動部的角度我們基本上的角度是要保障外送員的基本權益"},{"start":28821.044,"end":28840.16,"text":"所以我們在定報酬的很多的想法的出發點包括我們的利潤就是從外送員的基本權益來定我們並不是今天平台的這個財報好我們就定高一點平台的財報不好我就定低一點不是這個道理"},{"start":28841.482,"end":28862.543,"text":"就像我們在訂最低工資的時候最低工資是用勞工的生活支出跟經濟負擔來訂他的最低的這個最低工資他的概念是來自於這個地方今天不是去看這個公司的財報好我的最低工資就訂高"},{"start":28864.445,"end":28885.199,"text":"財報好的公司最低工資就高一點財報不好的最低工資就低一點不是這樣子所以我們是從工作者的基本權益的角度去出發看待這件事情的我覺得這是一件重要的事情我還是必須先說明是這樣所以當我們要定地板的時候基本上的邏輯就是我們認為他要跟著最低工資"},{"start":28887.202,"end":28915.809,"text":"我们认为他就是跟着最低工资所以我们也没有觉得说他要再往上多加怎么样子但的确今天如果是三分之一的话他的这个三分之一最低工资的话算起来他的是比较高的那我们我还是要回到劳动部的职责劳动部的职责我们不是去管制哪一个商业行为能涨价不能涨价"},{"start":28919.198,"end":28931.278,"text":"我今天勞動部你要勞動部去管制某一個商業行為能漲價不能漲價這件事情實在是我這不是我能夠全線上面能夠做的事情"},{"start":28932.867,"end":28954.342,"text":"那平台的确在之前的公听会上面他有说他们的平均是在270还是270290之间这平台他们在公听会上他们有做这样的宣称他们有做这个宣称那但是的确有很多外送员认为实际上根本就没有到这个数字"},{"start":28956.581,"end":28966.796,"text":"好的确所以我说我们在这方面我们只能出发点的事情就是那个地板怎么样定的有利润基础我们的角度是这件事情"},{"start":28969.153,"end":28987.23,"text":"是所以本席還是想要請這個部長再說明一下你們的利潤基礎是從最低基本薪資嘛對不對然後1.25那你的這個1.25可不可以再講清楚一點包含剛剛有說到車輛的攤提折舊還有油資啊等等可以再說明一次我的意思是說剛剛委員們"},{"start":28991.109,"end":29016.538,"text":"要問我說那你要我講說那三分之一怎樣三分之一又不是我提的這不是應該提的我現在講1.25的請你解釋1.25的不是我的意思是說應該我們可以講出1.25的利潤基礎是什麼那提案三分之一的委員的版本應該要去論述那三分之一的利潤基礎是什麼應該是這樣子那大家再來看這個利潤基礎之間怎麼樣來取捨"},{"start":29020.326,"end":29023.417,"text":"我没有办法去代言那1 3的利润基础是什么"},{"start":29028.112,"end":29057.795,"text":"对我刚才已经说了我们1.25倍的利润基础就是最低工资加上外送员的必要的运具上面的支出比方说油资比方说车辆的耗损比方说维修他有一个general统计上面他可能每公里大概会是多少的费用然后换算下来我们认为大概在1.25倍左右这个是我们定的这个地板的利润基础是在这里"},{"start":29060.131,"end":29067.713,"text":"好請羅廷偉委員發言接下來請吳思耀委員發言那你拿著麥克風拍著我以為你要講那請吳思耀委員發言"},{"start":29071.389,"end":29096.541,"text":"謝謝主席我想第五條如何去合一合理的訂出外送員的基本報酬絕對是這一次討論重中之重的條文那我認為數字上我想不管是行政部門或者是立法部門我們都是想替外送員的權益爭取更合理的這個報酬我想這個目標一致這沒有問題"},{"start":29097.441,"end":29124.162,"text":"只是說在民進黨的版本劉建國教委的版本我們比較傾向是勞動部他有試算的這個1.25倍那剛剛他所說的為什麼是1.25多出來的0.25就是外送員本身因為他的行業的特殊他有油費要支出他可能車子會有維修的風險或者是折舊的攤提等等所以他們的利潤基礎0.25的增加是這樣算的"},{"start":29126.724,"end":29151.898,"text":"那我也同意說我相信國民黨委員和召委所提的這個三分之一也有您所試算的的基礎那我覺得這個大家想一想保留一下那可以行書不同的文字我們再來好好的思量譬如說召委這邊所提的三分之一的增加的部分那您的試算的基礎的"},{"start":29154.091,"end":29178.621,"text":"對我覺得大家都可以理性討論啦那個差距也是可以所以這個條文不要卡在這裡所以我覺得是我們可以因為也前面有條文是保留的那後續再回來看條文的時候勞動部也把更具體的資訊還有包括交委提案要爭取大家支持的這個利潤基礎我們一起拿出來大家一起來比較來理性的討論我是做這樣的建議好嗎謝謝那請陳昭之委員發言"},{"start":29183.988,"end":29200.123,"text":"我要先提到在公聽會那天他們提到的那個260到甚至290那個數字為什麼很多人會覺得他是低於這個部長這很清楚你在報告勞工的薪資平均薪資的時候報告到好像62萬結果"},{"start":29202.205,"end":29226.478,"text":"有七成的勞工 根據主計從來有七成的勞工說他在這個平均值以下那個平均值就是一個不是參考的如果你用中位數也表示有一半人低於這個所以我們今天才要來想辦法保障就是平均的概念但是平均是對業者來說也許他總的收入他可以來這樣來計算所以為什麼我們一直堅持說其實我可以接受尤其我版本不版會會員版的版本1.25"},{"start":29227.358,"end":29254.034,"text":"但是就是保障這個樓地板嘛就讓就是說不要讓他們業者所謂的260或290但是事實上有七成人是低於這個我們今天就是要避免這件事那第二個就是說剛剛主席也替我再問了一次沒有人可以回答這件事那我們這個專法過了以後那萬一就是聯合漲價以後那這個有沒有方法可以制止有沒有方法可以制衡這件事情好就是我大概就是這個清楚那我可以接受沒有回沒有人回答還沒有人回答"},{"start":29254.943,"end":29260.207,"text":"好請行政部門 是不是相關的行政部門回答公平交易委員會的主密麥克風"},{"start":29269.518,"end":29296.909,"text":"公平會這邊做說明價格是市場競爭的核心那如果今天有業者他們就這個價格上面來去做一個共同決定的話這個會有公平交易法的違反那公平交易委員會一定會針對這個他們聯合漲價的這個情形來依法來處理這個沒有問題那另外就是說因為今天第五條的這個樣的規定會形成有一種兩種的價格在剛剛"},{"start":29298.549,"end":29318.626,"text":"劉委員有提到說公路法的運價是一個上限的規定從條文看起來會變成有兩種地板價第一個就是公路法規定的基本運算的價格再來第一個用勞動部依照基本工資每小時去算的"},{"start":29320.147,"end":29344.117,"text":"那個樓地板的價格那如果這個價格如果一旦定了以後就會形成價格的這個僵固性那我們還是希望這個說立法院這邊能夠好好去考慮這個市場競爭的問題因為價格是市場競爭的核心所以我們還是希望說在這裡能夠考量一下這個怎麼樣能夠讓市場的競爭秩序能夠更順暢以上好來"},{"start":29350.865,"end":29351.392,"text":"巫巫私下委員請發言"},{"start":29352.686,"end":29381.659,"text":"所以公平會議代表的意見講得很清楚如果因為不管是不是因為這個立法然後這可能平台之間隨時任何行業有任何單一時段的不合理的不正當的聯合哄抬聯合來key game他有他的政策工具可以處理嘛對不對剛剛的回答是這樣所以也不必然跟這個立法有什麼直接的關係anytime只要不合理的這種聯合哄抬的行為他就是有"},{"start":29382.219,"end":29396.911,"text":"它就必須辦那第二個這就是我說為什麼這一條我們大家可以緩一緩保留一下再思考就是說確實我們今天訂了1.25倍或者是三分之一再增加三分之一都會連帶影響平台它的成本"},{"start":29397.671,"end":29415.06,"text":"那另外我們也要確保外送員的權益他本身的最低報酬不被剝削所以說這個拿捏也就是剛剛委員已經問到了擔心會不會有人因此聯合來烘台因為他可能覺得成本增加很多這就是我們現在要好好審慎思考這個條文的部分"},{"start":29415.86,"end":29437.981,"text":"所以呢既然是重中之重大家考量這麼多真的我們就可以再更數更科學化的再有其他的參酌再來討論好不好所以這條真的就剛剛公平會的我是聽得很清楚所以我更認為這一條我們要更慎重可以先暫時保留那請問一下那更慎重1.25倍是你們覺得是可行的嗎"},{"start":29439.022,"end":29463.097,"text":"你們是覺得可惜嗎對不對大家都覺得1.25倍可以啊所以如果是1.25大家OK今天就沒有問題1.25倍可以啊對1.25對啊因為剛剛我來說明啦我說明的確現在會有我可以很坦誠的說在我們預告之後的確是會有一些外界的意見對於"},{"start":29466.358,"end":29491.27,"text":"這個條文裡面連動到剛剛交通部的基本運價的審議有一些多的一些意見因為現在這條裡面有兩項以劉委員的版本也就是布版因為它其實是一個預告版大家對這裡面有兩項一個部分是1.25倍的部分另外一部分是交通部的基本運價的審議"},{"start":29493.26,"end":29517.01,"text":"那我们的确是收到了一些意见是对交通部运驾审议这个部分主要是运驾这部分是不是要这样做那尤其他是联动到他的上线这件事情是有些意见的所以我说实话我们当然觉得1.25倍这事情我们当然觉得从外送员的部分我们的部分但是对于联动交通部的运驾的审议的部分我们的确觉得可以再做一点讨论"},{"start":29518.922,"end":29538.558,"text":"好對因為現在看起來比較具體的就是這個1.25倍是沒有什麼問題好那對因為在野黨委員覺得沒有問題在場但現在就是說那個交通部的運駕嘛那因為你這一條其實有說交通部運駕由交通部主管機關審定之嘛是對所以如果他現在有意見的話可能業界可以去等於是交通部因為他這裡面沒有定時"},{"start":29539.378,"end":29561.354,"text":"交通部的這個部分但是它的邏輯現在會有一些確實不管是之前聽到外送員或者有些對於這個方式去訂它的邏輯然後也包括因為它就會有點像進入到像Uber Taxi的處理的方式會有人對這個事情比較有意見所以我雖然這個條件是我們訂的但我們對我們的1.25倍我們當然還是覺得這是比較適切的"},{"start":29564.436,"end":29588.534,"text":"比三分之一最低工資適切可是另外這一條的另外一項是1.25倍的確我必須因為我跟各位講我們這個預告版其實他是在上個禮拜才過預告的時間但是就是因為現在委員會要審所以我們就拿預告版進到現在由委員幫這個預告版來提案所以我覺得這個部分是不是聯動交通部的部分我們的確覺得可以做一點保留"},{"start":29589.929,"end":29615.144,"text":"所以我補充一下因為現在進入的如果是以建國委員的第五條的第二項我們現在處理卡在第二項那第二項我修正一下我說法我說對於這個1.25倍我能夠接受是相較於教委所提的每小時最低工資的三分之一是這個部分好所以1.25跟三分之一的比較我認為1.25是比較合宜的"},{"start":29615.584,"end":29643.526,"text":"但是這一項裡面還連帶牽動到交通部主管的那一筆運費的部分還要再審酌那既然是在同一個條文的同一項因為它如果是不同項我們還可以先過某些項保留某一項可是它是在第五條的第二項綁在一起的條文所以真的我覺得大家再多花一點時間再審酌一下不同部門之間的意見再次建議一下召委"},{"start":29644.181,"end":29659.399,"text":"好請 林月琴委員好 召委剛剛一開始在講第5條的時候也開宗明義在講說這一條事實上是整個法裡面重中之重事實上是對我們的外送員事實上是權益影響最大的"},{"start":29659.899,"end":29682.282,"text":"所以我就認為要慎重那如果今天剛才部長也提到說因為在預告之後還是有些有意見他還沒來得及再去收整更好的去討論的時候我們今天在這邊他能只能就他現在原來規的規劃的那個1.25倍來做討論我會覺得不完備因為法定下去對於外送員"},{"start":29683.55,"end":29702.121,"text":"今天他的權益受到一些損害的話那我覺得那就不是那這個法根本就不需要存在因為他們最期待的需要的是這一塊所以是不是可以讓他們有一些時間去做一些討論所以我認為還是保留好不好好請王一鳴委員發言"},{"start":29703.089,"end":29726.586,"text":"我覺得我們剛剛討論那麼多第5條這個事實上剛剛部長一開始報告也講就是說委員提的這個基本工資三分之一他覺得過高他們是經過已經非常精算的是1.25倍那這樣子討論完之後我想這個國民黨這邊也支持就是說我一直到現在我們是支持部的版本現在不是不知道為什麼突然又要喊"},{"start":29727.681,"end":29752.077,"text":"這個暴流喔對啊也都是那也都是你們提出來的版本啊不是嗎就是應該你們你們之前就思考過嗎我覺得如果要處理我們今天應該是更有效率的稍微都說今天可以開到很晚嗎這關鍵的條文我們就好好的來處理好好的來討論啊那剛剛提到的就是交通部的部分剛剛交通部講太少這個交通部可以再表達"},{"start":29752.717,"end":29778.293,"text":"就是說這兩個如果你覺得彼此之間有什麼問題的話講清楚嘛應該怎麼調整嘛關鍵的條文用這樣的處理方式我覺得不錯大家可以可以花更多時間討論呃對我好請陳昭志委員發言接下來現在所有的外送人大家都在等待今天的目前這個做法我非常覺得奇怪這也跟這個朝野立委都同意的版本"},{"start":29779.173,"end":29807.252,"text":"那現在是行政單位你開始猶豫了我們支持不反對這個今天就是好我們已經就是把我們原來的三分之一同意了你們1.25倍1.25 1.25今天就是把1.25定下來就是這樣那另外因為就是交通部另外在當然要說明但是另外他再去處理他也不是此時一刻他能夠把我們這件事交代清楚我再說明一次第一個我們當然主張1.25這沒有問題"},{"start":29809.053,"end":29830.032,"text":"这件事情绝对没有要变现在的现在的状况我不知道大家知不知道交通部的这个部分的逻辑好交通部的逻辑是他们会定一个运价他其实主要是要他要来跟消费者跟合作店家来收费的运价所以呢交通部的运价呢其实在他的逻辑面他通常他会定的比较高"},{"start":29833.447,"end":29862.181,"text":"比方說高鐵高鐵也會定一個運價的上限他是抓一個上限的邏輯可是通常實際上面不一定會到那邊那但是呢確實我們現在這是在這個在我們在預告的過程裡面的確會有一些人來指教說我們的這個條文的寫法因為是不低於那個上限各位了解我的意思嗎是不低於這個上限"},{"start":29863.813,"end":29890.065,"text":"對 所以可是問題是交通部不會現在就把那個訂出來所以變成是交通部的這個上限其實這個工會其實也之前也對我們提出這個指教包括工會 包括平台都對我們提出這個指教其實我們是在收到這個指教之後我們自己內部也在審酌現在在第五條的第一項我們也認為恐怕是有在更仔細討論的空間"},{"start":29893.243,"end":29916.572,"text":"但是第二項的部分只要是那個1.25倍的部分當然我們還是主張這件事情可是這個第五條裡面有兩件事情第五條裡面有兩件事情一件事情是交通部的基本運費的審議第二件事情是1.25倍的最低底線最低底線部分我們當然持續主張"},{"start":29918.052,"end":29939.014,"text":"可是對於交通部上面這部分有沒有更好的做法我們其實是覺得因為現在各方都有來這個意見不管是公會端不管是平台端都有來對於說是不是要用這個交通部他訂的這個基本運價的那個上限的部分其實有提出請我們再多討論那我們自己在省族上也覺得這部分是可以多討論的"},{"start":29940.168,"end":29967.325,"text":"那第五條他第一項這樣的一個寫法事實上他的彈性很大就是說你所有要在討論的這個通過是沒有相衝突的就是說他通過之後你可以在你們就是更仔細的討論裡面去做實質的一個調整但是在母法的處理裡面我們覺得他哪一個部分限制了你未來的一個討論不是我跟主要是因為那個裡面寫到不低於嗎對不對哪裡"},{"start":29971.303,"end":29997.688,"text":"前向最低工資的運費我完全懂你們的意思但是我的意思是說在這個運價真的我覺得是神聖這個條文當初是沒錯是我們發想來擬的可是當我們在預告的時候我們的確也收到各方不同的意見我們在收到各方不同的意見的時候也覺得是應該再思考一下這個這個題目的"},{"start":30002.814,"end":30017.372,"text":"這不是就是說我覺得在審慎上面至少我覺得在這一輪我們覺得可以先保留然後在這個題目上面我們可以再把它想得更成熟一點因為這是母法"},{"start":30018.652,"end":30047.88,"text":"我部長我請教一下因為第一個這個法如果以後面的當然後面還會討論到他是六個月後嘛對不對六個月後實施有條文是這樣寫那這個過程中你第一項已經講得很清楚前面不是也都分工給各個主管機關所以交通部的這個他現在是還有時間去檢討他所謂的成本合不合理這件事我跟委員說明我更直接講交通部這個基本運價如果訂的比較高那消費者可能會被收比較多"},{"start":30051.3,"end":30075.022,"text":"交通部這個所謂的基本運價的意思在他們這個基本運價他其實是跟消費者收的就像高鐵會定一個基本運價這高鐵基本運價定的比較高其實他可以跟消費者就會收的比較多好但是呢他定的低大家又會擔心外送員的收入因為我們等於是跟這個東西聯動嘛"},{"start":30078.646,"end":30091.353,"text":"其實簡單來講你是 現行沒有做法完全沒有做現在沒有法所以我的意思說當初我們在概念上面把交通部這個部分給寫進來的時候意思是說訂的比較高"},{"start":30093.243,"end":30108.279,"text":"就是在假設我的意思說交通部假設訂的比較高那其實就會變成跟消費者可以收的比較多消費者跟店家就會收的比較多那外送員的薪資外送員的報酬也就會比較連帶會比較高"},{"start":30110.603,"end":30133.051,"text":"如果交通部這個基本的運價的上限他訂的比較低那他可以跟平台可以跟消費者跟合作店家收的就會比較低但外送員的報酬也會在這邊會連動比較低這整條的邏輯是這樣當初我們設計的概念是這樣可是這個概念的確在上網預告之後"},{"start":30134.131,"end":30154.706,"text":"不管是平台不管是工會都有覺得好像有在商榷的地方我們也收到了這樣的訊息所以我們才覺得說如果因為上禮拜五我們才結束預告所以我們才覺得就這個部分謹慎起見可以再多做一些討論"},{"start":30157.213,"end":30164.568,"text":"概念是這樣子部長我想要回應一下因為我覺得再更具體一點不然所謂的在研議在討論也是一直討論"},{"start":30166.257,"end":30192.777,"text":"好那我先我再問一下問題請你們回應一下因為你剛剛有講一高一低現在重點是交通部的運價可能還沒有很確定有很多不同的變數對不對那其實現在外送員他們現在最care的是基本保障那你現在的基本保障就是寫是1.25那就是確保他有這個1.25那至於未來你交通部就定的高或低你也是用所謂剛剛說科學數據的方式去看他每公里到底應該多少錢"},{"start":30194.158,"end":30211.408,"text":"對 那我覺得現在的這一條的重點反而因為你給的空間叫做讓交通部去訂現在這一條的重點反而是你勞動部的這1.25是不是可以確定下來讓現在的外送員安心就是說他有這個基礎的保障我覺得這應該是這一條現在卡的我可以跟委員說明1.25的主張我們不會變的"},{"start":30215.329,"end":30239.719,"text":"1.25的主张不会变的我从头到尾刚才就是在论述这个部分的利润基础我们认为是经得起考验的现在的问题是因为在这件事情上面他有两个两个条件另外一个条件是关于交通部的运驾审议的部分那这个审议的做法的确是有几方都有提出不同的意见那我们也在思考"},{"start":30240.959,"end":30268.821,"text":"如果不要用交通部这个他还有没有其他的替代方案有没有更好的做法我们也在想这件事情如果没有替代的方案也许就要用交通部这个做法可是这个过程希望让大家有一个可以在更审慎思考的空间我的意思是这样但是1.25这件事情我们没有要变我们没有要改现在主要是联动交通部运架这个部分的确外界有不同的意见"},{"start":30270.512,"end":30276.938,"text":"那請問一下我提出一個意見請問一下如果這一條我們就很明確的說是保障他最低是1.25往上的那是所謂的自由市場就是像剛剛這個公平交易委員會說的如果他因為他願意多跑一些然後他因為這個跑的條件比較嚴格讓他們這個自己去調整如果是這樣的情況的話你們是什麼看法跟委員說明第一個"},{"start":30296.734,"end":30304.9,"text":"如果在這一條裡面就把第一項給拿掉只有1.25這件事情我認為工會可能不一定會接受他的保障就只有一條現在這個保障裡面是兩件事情"},{"start":30315.75,"end":30343.108,"text":"但是如果把交付这部分直接就全部给拿掉的话那他就只剩一个那他的短单就比较问题比方说如果8分钟左右一单在我们1.25的这个概念里面我更讲更白其实等于就是你在跑单的时候每分钟大概是4.1块但如果遇到比较短单的情况的时候长单比较长单他跑的时间比较长那你就是必须看跑多少分钟就乘上多少个4.1块"},{"start":30344.892,"end":30370.169,"text":"可是如果比较短单的时候我举个例子如果在城市在都市里面可能有8分钟一单这种状况的时候他城上大概就有30几块所以我想跟委员说明的事情是我们其实是非常非常仔细的在审慎思考各种情境的可能性怎么样是比较合理的保障这不是一个喊价的概念跟过程"},{"start":30371.092,"end":30382.391,"text":"那今天在1.25這件事情上它能夠比較保障到的是需要比較長時間的長單的地方但是的確在都市裡面也有會有一些短單"},{"start":30384.949,"end":30405.824,"text":"那部長我請教一下第一個如果現在維持這樣的情況是不是等於是他的樓地板就是1分鐘4塊錢4.1塊好那如果江東部的運價因為他們要因為你因為其實基本上是有給至少6個月的時間你去好好的定你所謂的運價成本合理化的這個成本好那"},{"start":30406.644,"end":30430.205,"text":"到時候基本上這一條未來他們怎麼訂那也是尊重交通部但是你至少給他一個基本保障叫做每一分鐘不得低於4.1塊對 是嗎就是現在這個概念那現在這樣子會有我不太懂現在卡住的點的衝突還是不是很理解那個 趙委我建議是不是先休息一下我跟各位說明一下因為坦白說這一條的設計是比較複雜的"},{"start":30433.604,"end":30447.937,"text":"而且真的要非常非常的審慎好那我先宣告一下好了報告委員會我們今天的開會時間就延長到這個劉建國委員版本的第8條處理完畢再休息那請問各位委員有沒有異議"},{"start":30449.955,"end":30476.202,"text":"好 有沒有意義如果沒有意義的話我們通過等一下 有意義一下 對不起是這樣子因為不曉得第五條我們就先休息出這條因為這條可能會就卡很久先溝通一下再處理那如果說這樣子那張偉如果你們才是沒有 如果這條一直卡所以我們一直覺得說就保留這一條先保留因為剛剛第一條也保留了條文那個法案名稱也保留了後面還會有回來的時間嘛"},{"start":30478.343,"end":30504.053,"text":"所以說如果為了招委說要到第8條那可以啊那這一條就先保留我們就跳第6第7第8我們尊重招委討論一下我先宣告不是我已經先宣告我們今天處理到第8條那你剛剛不是在徵求大家同意我們在表達沒有沒有我想要跟你說的是他現在休息嘛那如果等一下討論講的你需要保留或什麼我們等一下結束再說"},{"start":30504.906,"end":30526.455,"text":"那今天就是到第八條結束這樣因為這一條是我們要花時間好好講沒有問題主席不好意思我還是要抗議一下因為我談三分之一的時候我又同時問了這個運價是你們都沒有人肯回答我等到我同意你們的版本你這個運價又開始出問題主席我真的抗議事實上就是如此我提的運價當中只有我一個人提出運價問題機制怎麼做"},{"start":30528.516,"end":30534.719,"text":"好 那我們休息十分鐘你就是不想做嘛 預告都這麼倉促你就沒有想做嘛你根本沒有想辦這個法過嘛這麼匆忙好 討論一下"},{"start":31878.598,"end":31878.82,"text":"好 現在繼續開會"},{"start":31887.746,"end":31912.182,"text":"剛剛這個休息期間大家應該針對第五條今天算是最重要一條有各種的意見和各種的想法那剛剛部長可能要再請你再次說明1.25倍你們這裡最低保障絕對不會變但是有一些短單長單的考量你們需要保留這一條到第二輪那第二輪也就是明天你們明天的時候會把條文定清楚再出來討論"},{"start":31913.323,"end":31940.859,"text":"我在跟說明一下因為我知道有很多可能在看直播或者是什麼的朋友我直接說勞動部從頭到尾我們對於以小時以時間來算的這個1.25倍我們都沒有要改我們也覺得這是有利潤基礎的是這個部分但因為第5條裡面牽涉到兩件事情一個事情是關於時間來算的1.25倍另外一個事情如果大家可以看條文就是關於交通部的這個"},{"start":31943.981,"end":31960.575,"text":"基本運價的審議那我們在預告的過程裡面主要是在交通部的運價審議這部分不管是工會或者是平台 幾方有來針對這部分有提出一些不同意見的挑戰"},{"start":31961.676,"end":31985.119,"text":"有提出一些不同意见挑战所以我们认为在这个是否要联动交通部的运驾这件事情基本运驾的审议这件事情我们觉得可以有多一点时间大家再把它想清楚可是我所谓的多一点时间不是指我要想一个月我要想一个礼拜不是是我们觉得在现在这个当下可以相对先保留一下"},{"start":31985.7,"end":32004.826,"text":"我知道明天可能就稍微来说他就会再排第二轮我想我们到时候就会提出可是我要再我要再补充是对于1.25倍这件事情基本工资的1.25倍以时间来算这部分我们没有要变我们没有要变这部分是对于长单的部分"},{"start":32006.215,"end":32023.79,"text":"只要每分钟就可以有4.1块这部分这还是我们的主张这没有要变现在是跟这一个1.25倍原本搭配的交通部的基本运价审议我们觉得是不是要再做一些思考或者是要不要有一个替代方案比方说要有一个保底还是怎么样子"},{"start":32024.531,"end":32051.459,"text":"我们在思考这件事情主要今天大家刚刚停下来做多做讨论的主要是这件事所以我要再说一次1.25老公没有要变是他的搭配的配套那个部分要是什么我们在觉得可以再再做一点思考主要是在这部分所以这是现在在保留的原因是这样子谢谢好OK那现在这一条的话我们是不是就保留然后等明天"},{"start":32052.694,"end":32074.552,"text":"第二輪勞動部提出具體的條文再回來審查問題我們會在明天提出條文然後裡面的條文一定會有一點二五倍不會跑掉一定會有一點二五倍那這條第五條保留到第二輪討論那接下來進入第六條"},{"start":32076.087,"end":32094.763,"text":"第6條的話是這個劉建國委員等16人的提案請勞動部說明主席各位那第6條主要我們就是考慮因為常常那個外送員他在128接訂單的時候呢他很多訊息搞不清楚"},{"start":32095.461,"end":32123.559,"text":"对于预估的报酬还有取送商品地点常常都只是开盲盒所以呢希望我们也能够在法律上明定当外送平台提供订单给外送员的时候要同时告诉外送员有关于订单的一些预估报酬跟地点然后还有一些重要的资讯那主要就是也让外送员可以去评估我到底要不要接那我他让他比较有更多的资讯让他能够理解好这以上报告"},{"start":32125.066,"end":32147.786,"text":"好那針對這條有沒有委員有意見請吳世耀委員發言這一條謝謝勞動部最後提醒了我們好我們當初在討論的時候確實思量到我們的外送員確實有剛說的他每一個單資訊不清楚的時候他接不接不接好像也會擔心說我未來會有不利對待好我在挑單"},{"start":32148.507,"end":32171.86,"text":"但接又在資訊沒有被清楚的揭露的當下他可能又有流入這個抽盲盒看運氣的這個風險所以說依建國委員召委的這個修正案的第六條呢就是明定外送平台業者於提供訂單與外送員時應明確告知訂單之預估報酬"},{"start":32172.66,"end":32189.713,"text":"取送商品地點及其他相關重要資訊那這個我們跟工會討論過那我相信是可以有利於我們外送員的夥伴們清楚的資訊揭露所以希望能夠叫建國交委這個條文來通過好請陳昭資委員發言"},{"start":32191.94,"end":32211.582,"text":"主席我就在代替外送員們來提問現在很多外送員跟消費者之間的糾紛在來自於送餐到指定地點以後要不要爬樓梯那有些外送員他不想接需要爬樓梯訂單但因為現在的平台的接單系統讓外送員在接單前不會知道樓層是按下這個接單才會知道要送到幾樓"},{"start":32212.922,"end":32226.367,"text":"這樣會導致沒有辦法或不想爬樓梯的外送員會選擇棄單那這樣對消費者也是困擾所以我想請教勞動部第六條文字可以讓外送員在接單前就知道是否需要爬樓梯或坐電梯以及包含樓層的明確資訊嗎"},{"start":32228.168,"end":32256.754,"text":"因为现在文字只写说取送商品地点及其他相关重要资讯我们担心就可能不够明确还是会发生发生接单前资讯不够透明情况这个就请说明一下或讨论一下要不要写得更清楚谢谢这样好不好就是我跟委员说因为第6条是现在很多外送员抱怨的点就是说他到那个地方他不知道比方说他也许到了一个医院的门口他车子骑不进去了那个医院的院区很大他走进去"},{"start":32257.774,"end":32279.775,"text":"那他走進去時間就很長或者是他走進去要走到他不知道這資訊所以平台應該把相關的資訊都要告之外再訂單告之外再送員那剛剛趙志偉剛才講的我建議因為在我們的說明裡面我們其實有裡面寫第一點比方說送餐地點包括行車里程步行距離抵達區等我建議我們再把一個頓號包括樓層好不好"},{"start":32281.957,"end":32298.744,"text":"就是那個括號裡面我們有包括行車里程步行距離抵達區因為樓層本來就是我們認為必須要提供的資訊只是我們要用細則來處理可是如果大家不放心會怕會沒有樓層的話我們直接在說明欄的那個括號裡面把樓層放到那個括弧裡面"},{"start":32303.266,"end":32326.858,"text":"就很好但我就说带一下木那楼层会知道是要爬的还是要有电梯吗有电梯可搭吗我就是替外送员请教一下坦白说这个资讯的样态会很多我可能很难在这一并就把所有东西都写完这是为什么后面刚才第二项我们是写说会有个细则的原因但总之大家会担心主要担心会是比方说爬楼梯的楼层"},{"start":32327.438,"end":32349.862,"text":"那我们就把楼层这两次放到说明栏里面至少大家就知道说他必须要提供相关的楼层资讯好不好OK好我可以请教一下那个那个邮件委员的第六条他是对应其他委员的第几条啊没有他这个条文这个条文是劳动部自己心理出来的只有他有对"},{"start":32350.953,"end":32367.467,"text":"OK好那我我贊成要把剛剛那個趙志偉講的就是詳細那個樓層的因為那個也是他們現在那個困擾要爬樓梯跟跟是一樓的是有差的這個可以再加進去這其實就是訂單透明化了對"},{"start":32370.232,"end":32388.54,"text":"謝謝因為這一條也是外送員很基本的需求這個訂單的透明度那我想這個這一條我沒有我也支持那請問有沒有任何還有沒有任何委員有意見或是勞動部有沒有要補充說明沒有好沒有的話那這一條是不是就仲裁各位委員的意見通過好那接下來下一條下一條下一條是下一條是哪"},{"start":32400.433,"end":32417.439,"text":"下一條是洪孟楷委員他們的第6條我們建議我說明一下沒有就是你們把我們的第6條變成是籠統的你們剛很簡短的第6條是不是"},{"start":32419.101,"end":32440.28,"text":"跟委員報告這個包括洪峰改委員等提的有關於第6有的第6條有的是第5條主要就是希望要我們跟這個目的事業主管機關對外送員的資格還有關於外送服務期間有關食品安全交通安全的設備工具訂定外送安全服務標準那也跟各位委員報告"},{"start":32441.021,"end":32457.075,"text":"不是啦那个我们的第6条是要揭示那个外送平台业者英语外送平台界面客户端明确揭示下列各款事项这个是到底是第几条对照你们版是第几条"},{"start":32462.589,"end":32482.993,"text":"我们这一条到底是对应你们那王玉明委员讲的是第44页的台湾民众党等相关人的第6条那有一些委员所以李坤诚是第4条罗志强是第10条但是核心概念精神其实有点类似现在刘建国委员版本的第6条对呀就是资讯的揭露你刚刚说"},{"start":32483.713,"end":32509.131,"text":"沒有相對應的版本這個是寫的比較清楚那我們委員就說台灣民眾黨然後萬美玲徐宇甄等相關委員的這個第六條他比較多這其實也是剛剛召委雖然有講說劉建國委員的這個第六條我們先綜合大家意見通過但是我還是想要強調的是說因為劉建國委員的第六條沒有錯我需要"},{"start":32510.231,"end":32532.278,"text":"明確的資訊讓外送員決定要不要接單可是如果說你看這個44頁台灣民眾黨等委員的第6條他其實談的比較廣他就不只是指示給外送員的權益餐廳也有權益啊消費者也有權益啊那所以說才會講是說外送平台應該要把"},{"start":32533.278,"end":32562.301,"text":"相关的东西都给明确的揭露跟委员说明会比较保障几方的权益你现在讲的因为刚才在讲的透明化是针对不同的对象有不同透明化的item我们刚才在讲的主要是针对给外送员的资讯在刘建国的第六条是啊那现在如果说外送员在讲的是外送员有保障那其他譬如说像餐厅也好商家也好消费者也好我建议不定定我不了解"},{"start":32562.921,"end":32591.344,"text":"那這個部分主要是給消費者的那這部分要不要請江部你後面的建議條文為什麼這個部分要建議不定定呢我們剛剛不是說這個是要多方保障嗎還有包括消費者"},{"start":32597.12,"end":32618.151,"text":"我們現在先討論44頁你就看頁數比較準針對王委員這邊幾個委員有提到就是要揭示各款項的部分那裡面有涉及到消費權益的部分那我們後續後面的條文會有提到"},{"start":32618.511,"end":32638.208,"text":"說我們會依照那個消保法會去訂那個消費者的應記載不得記載事項那裡面就會把這些相關的權利義務的部分會去做一個明定第幾條你們的在第幾條我們的13條有關於那個第幾頁不好意思對啊第幾頁所以這是不是應該移過去呢13條的這一次"},{"start":32643.954,"end":32657.509,"text":"還是要不要還是要不要到第13條在處理消費者的部分我們再來討論這個部分好不好對啊那你你應該不是說不訂定本條規定你應該是說那個在你們不版的第13條對意思是說因為現在剛剛洪孟凱委員在講的民眾黨的這個給消費者的資訊揭露"},{"start":32664.116,"end":32692.91,"text":"主要他處理的條文是在劉建國就是不版的第13條那因為我們現在只走到第6條那我是建議要不要走到第13條的時候我們再來討論這部分給消費者權益跟資訊要定到什麼程度我知道但你們的建議條文你們你們是建議不定定本條規定那你不是說13條嗎你應該是說到13條一起討論不是不定定啊不定定我們就會覺得那就完全被忽略了"},{"start":32695.576,"end":32700.097,"text":"好 那就到13條討論回去第6條還沒有然後他全部都對我說他們這個"},{"start":32719.696,"end":32733.822,"text":"所以那個那個張偉我們我們這一條其實還是要保留他們建議就是不定定但我先回到43頁好不好因為剛剛直接跳到44頁了嘛第6條還沒有這條還沒有討論那這條這應該是先討論一下那這條是對這條也有紅夢卡委員的版本還有羅廷偉委員楊瓊怡委員張家俊委員劉建國委員林倩琦委員和羅志強"},{"start":32747.797,"end":32770.799,"text":"還有好幾個啦有好幾個對對非常多大概每一個都有在這裡有提部分的主席那我來簡單說明一下有關於紅白委員21位有提了有關第6條的部分那我們確實也認為確實外送委員很多的東西需要一些規範但是因為現階段我們在考量目前外送平台還在發展的階段"},{"start":32771.64,"end":32789.747,"text":"很多兼职跟编辑劳工为了相关的生活上的一些依赖来从事外送如果现在针对外送员的资格现在就要去做限制跟规范我们认为是不是暂时先这段先不要"},{"start":32790.707,"end":32805.812,"text":"其实有关于交通安全上面的设备跟工具目前交通部针对机车本来就有很多的规范应该也不需要在这里重复再做一些规定所以我们建议说可不可以这个条文就先不要规定"},{"start":32807.751,"end":32828.863,"text":"好 那先針對這一條有沒有委員有意見請劉建國委員發言因為我自己本身有提版本啦但因為剛剛聽到這個勞動部所說的一個建議事項以後我覺得我們不堅持沒關係但是回到42頁的他們剛剛說的那個第6條還是希望說剛剛劉建國委員的那個版本是可以再保留討論的"},{"start":32834.534,"end":32847.286,"text":"因為我們剛剛不是有講到因為你的下面一頁他是說到13條討論了對對對因為他還需要討論到時候我們這一個的版本要跟他的第6條來做到13條一起共同討論"},{"start":32848.976,"end":32875.356,"text":"賴希謙請行政部門說明我說明剛剛劉委員的那個版本是對於外送員本身要做的資訊的揭露訂單的資訊揭露那剛剛我們在牆面剛剛洪孟愷委員有講到有一些是對消費者的資訊揭露那個對應布板是對應在布板的13條所以剛剛我們有說剛剛跟王玉敏有說我們到13條的部分再來討論那個部分"},{"start":32877.607,"end":32896.625,"text":"對 那現在在討論的主要是是洪委員在講到說洪孟愷委員的版本有講到說是不是要訂定對外送員的資格來訂定資格那我們的確覺得這部分真的要比較小心因為現在外送員總共有14萬人我今天劃了一刀下去也許就會有一些人突然說我不在這個資格的範圍裡面"},{"start":32898.306,"end":32917.762,"text":"他就突然就不能起了所以我们认为这部分要非常非常的审慎所以我们这是为什么不建议在这里面来出外送个外送人资格源因为我们不是重启一个新的行业而是在既有的框架像既有的人数下面我们要来管理的时候这边就有一些人就是会直接被划出去对啊这就要比较所以我说这个区块我不坚持吗ok"},{"start":32919.224,"end":32933.878,"text":"我想我們也提醒部長啦在這一條就是我們43頁所謂這各委員的版本包括其實劉建國委員也有提案劉建國委員他也有對於所謂的外送員資格"},{"start":32935.62,"end":32960,"text":"那不過我實在話講這一條的核心精神絕對不是審查資格這一條的核心精神其實是後面我們要保障食品安全跟交通安全這才是核心精神所以當初為什麼會劉建國委員也提出這樣的一個條文我想他的核心精神絕對不是在審查資格而是我們要保障消費者以及在運輸過程的一個權益"},{"start":32961.861,"end":32982.86,"text":"但既然有疑慮的部分那行政部門也建議先不討論這一條話我想我們是可以接受那不過就說剛剛提到44條的44頁的部分我們就不要讓他跳過而是44頁的這一些條文保留到等到我們到78頁的13條的時候再一併討論這樣好嗎謝謝"},{"start":32987.83,"end":33014.312,"text":"好沒問題還有沒有委員有意見好如果沒有的話我們先講剛剛43頁這條就是依照行政部部門就不予採納好那再來就是第44頁的這個第6條的部分包含台灣民眾黨提案等等這個就是保留到第13條不版的第13條不版的第13條也就是78頁的時候一起來討論"},{"start":33016.834,"end":33022.024,"text":"好那接下來再往下一條第7條"},{"start":33024.608,"end":33047.434,"text":"主席 各位委員有關於第七條部分也是長期我們外送員非常在意就是工作權的部分實務上確實平台常常因為很多種不確定的一些規範然後將外送員終止契約那終止契約以後他就沒有辦法提供工作了他也沒有任何的平台有機會去從事這樣的工作"},{"start":33048.234,"end":33070.022,"text":"那因此我們在這裡特別明定外送員應該要有符合這幾個非常重大的一個違法的情形的時候呢你才可以跟他終止契約包括違反歌詞法性騷擾防治法然後交通法規等等食品安全法規等等重大的狀況之下呢才可以去終止契約而且我們本條文呢也會提到很多的相關的規範"},{"start":33071.082,"end":33082.512,"text":"那也就是說他要通知我們的外送員那也要讓外送員有這個申訴的機會也讓外送員在工作上面有比較好的一個保障的權利以上說明好那請問委員有沒有意見好請盧憲宜委員"},{"start":33095.725,"end":33113.559,"text":"就是就申訴的部分如果說我們的外送員是原住民族的話希望他的處理的小組希望有一個人是原住民或者是相關領域的好不好外送員他本身是原住民族他要申訴的時候第九條會討論到請勞動部說明一下我們還是拿麥克風跟委員說明一下"},{"start":33118.881,"end":33144.432,"text":"也跟委員說明一下就是說我們在第九條我們就有設計了一個獨立的小組主要就處理有關於申訴終止契約的案例主要的目的就是考慮到是因為外送平台常常因為擔心消費者的個資而不往往的不告訴我們的外送員說到底是誰申訴他有不當的行為因此我們有一個獨立超覽的小組來做審議"},{"start":33146.133,"end":33160.074,"text":"那在這個審議的過程當中我們最主要是看事實的具體的狀況然後透過一些客觀的沒有跟平台有利害關係的包括勞動法令跟熟悉外送平台產業實務運作的外部專家學來擔任"},{"start":33161.696,"end":33181.356,"text":"所以這個部分我們也認為還是由平台他們來處理但是一定不能有跟平台有利害關係的人擔任那個三人小組所以這個地方我們是不是就不用有放有關於原住民的一定要在裡面放原住民的一個代表以上說明"},{"start":33184.969,"end":33200.474,"text":"這個部分是放在第9條第9條嗎第9條我會順便講一下我的修正動議你們看一下就是外送平台業者不得因外送員提出申訴或協助他人申訴而對其作出任何不利之處分"},{"start":33201.694,"end":33228.822,"text":"這個部分你們先回去研議我在那個修正都沒有講因為剛好盧委員的是涉及到第9條嘛現在先提而已你現在是先提醒嘛對對對有這個部分因為他的也是第9條嘛我就順便提那本席想要問一下因為這裡是各個很多條文是有第7條第16條那本席的部分是第6條我想請問一下我的第6條應該跟這個劉建國召委的版本是幾乎應該是一樣的吧"},{"start":33232.799,"end":33255.094,"text":"跟召委說明一下也確實是後來我們有在討論過除了這六個主要的法律之外還有一個很重要的關鍵是外送服務契約的違反也就是說最重要外送平台跟消費者之間是透過外送服務契約去約束跟規範外送員在整個外送服務流程當中應該有的作為"},{"start":33256.595,"end":33273.143,"text":"可能不一定他對消費者的動作跟態度是有違反到前面那些法律因為法律有時候是非常最低的要求跟標準可能他很嚴重違反了外送服務契約導致消費者可能產生非常大的不滿甚至造成很大的衝突"},{"start":33273.783,"end":33298.538,"text":"那這種情形狀況之下而且是情節重大我們也認為外送平台也有權利來終止外送服務契約即便是勞僱關係我們的勞基法也有明定勞基法第12條它違反勞動契約情節重大也是可以去做終止不一定要完全是違反法律而已就是想要請問這跟我的條文有哪一個地方有不一樣我們這裡有增加一個外送服務契約"},{"start":33301.879,"end":33313.138,"text":"終止外送服務契約 廖偉祥也有啊且情節重大者外送平台業者死得終止外送服務契約啊"},{"start":33314.952,"end":33340.227,"text":"是違反外送服務契約也就是說外送員他的行為他沒有構成違法但是他的行為已經明顯的構成違反外送服務契約了那這種情形平台當然我們在聽取各方的意見平台認為外送服務契約其實針對很多外送員該有的行為準則都會在外送服務契約你在這裡多加了一個他如果違反他外送服務契約對對對"},{"start":33342.486,"end":33346.467,"text":"OK然後就可以也可以終止這樣子對對對好本席不堅持沒有意見我好那還有沒有委員有任何意見好那那這一條就照委員劉建國等16人提案通過"},{"start":33369.192,"end":33397.929,"text":"好 接下來第8條主席 各位委員我來說明一下就是有關於委員紅夢凱委員的第8條 第49頁關於委員紅夢凱的21人委員提的這樣一個提案我們的考量是因為如果這裡同意外送平台只要續名理由"},{"start":33398.709,"end":33424.728,"text":"然后30天前预告外送员就可以跟他终止契约当然第二项有提到说发给经济补偿但是我们也了解外送员他们也表达是说他们需要工作如果让外送平台业者可以只要续命旅游就可以终止的话其实我前面那一条这么严格的保障就等于白定了他就不必要前面那一条了"},{"start":33425.288,"end":33449.577,"text":"所以我們也希望外送員的工作得到保障除非外送員自己不願意繼續擔任外送那我們是不是在這裡不需要讓外送平台有個空間好像給了一筆錢就可以把它終止外送服務契約了所以這一點我們是希望能夠不予訂定請教委員們有沒有意見"},{"start":33459.107,"end":33477.017,"text":"好啊好那如果這條沒有意見的話我們就不予採納那接下來是好接下來就到第8條劉建國委員的第8第8條16人就是不版的第8條"},{"start":33480.022,"end":33505.67,"text":"主席各位委員第八條主要就是我們讓外送員有一個空間當外送平台有一些在訂定外送契約的序位表示讓外送員受損害之餘或者是外送平台違反外送服務契約或本法的規定造成損害外送員權益之餘所以可以讓外送員可以主動終止外送服務契約然後平台又必須要付給他經濟補償"},{"start":33507.23,"end":33511.579,"text":"那相關的經濟補償呢就由我們中央支付委員機關再來訂以上說明好那針對這一條有沒有委員有意見"},{"start":33521.246,"end":33539.618,"text":"好 那這個跟委員說明一下其他委員有加了一個叫做其他法令另有規定那確實我們在考慮說一個平台它違反的法令有很多種那這些法令跟外送員可能不見得有關"},{"start":33541.019,"end":33570.055,"text":"那如果外送員就說因為平台有違反其他的百百種的法令他就可以終止契約拿經濟補償可能恐怕是有點就很不確定性太大了所以我們的建議還是建立在前面兩個一個違反外送服務契約一個違反我們剛剛講的就是還是停留在外送服務契約跟本法的規定這兩項主要我們就是以這兩項為作為最主要的依據"},{"start":33571.823,"end":33599.512,"text":"但是你們這樣子會不會是過於嚴格就像剛剛我們提到的比如說如果今天有平台業者他可能對外送員有性騷或者是有其他的情況這個有在契約之內嗎所以有違反其他的法令如果他講的是合理的我覺得是不是這樣對外送員才相對比較有保障因為其他情況你真的"},{"start":33602.162,"end":33627.212,"text":"不是不是這邊是說他可以主動他可以主動去解約就是說外送員可以主動跟平台業者解約那你不能排除說因為現在也有一些女性外送員那如果他是是其他法令規定譬如他對他有一些性騷等等不禮貌你就沒有在你的除非你的契約有那麼詳細我覺得多一個其他不是是相對更有保障嗎"},{"start":33628.463,"end":33647.139,"text":"跟委員說明他也不會亂提出就是他還是要明確提出一個法令的什麼規定除了契約以外的比較明確的對譬如說對人身的騷擾或者是傷害這種這個你們報告委員我們將來會在外送服務契約裡面會訂很多有利於我們外送員的一些相關的規範"},{"start":33649.02,"end":33670.071,"text":"本法有規定很多的要求跟依據只是說違反其他法令另有規定這個範圍真的確實會太大而且這樣的一個規定不一定是跟外送有關可能跟那個公司有觸犯了我們國家很多其他很多的法律跟法令都有可能性"},{"start":33670.931,"end":33698.888,"text":"那這個情形就讓外送員可以來終止契約領取外送補償我們覺得這範圍會不會太大那我們知道委員的意思我們可以將來在外送服務契約裡面把一些很重要對於外送員的權利保障我們會在裡面訂這個而且可以跟他的外送很有關聯的事項這樣子他來舉證說我要求終止因為你違反我你跟我之間的契約的內容對啊他搞不好是霸凌或什麼"},{"start":33701.451,"end":33717.517,"text":"其實意思是說比方說假如今天平台它違反一些公私治理的法律假如其實這跟外送員本身的權益不一定有直接相關可是可是因為其他法令它的範圍就很廣"},{"start":33719.037,"end":33733.17,"text":"所以比方说如果外送平台他违反一些公司自己的法律比方说他的他的他的会计账里面有一个什么样的疏漏他有违反的某些法令他会被处罚可是外送员就可以因此来跟他解约要求经济补偿那这个范围就会很大"},{"start":33736.98,"end":33756.347,"text":"那還是我們第三項這邊可以改成說比較明確的譬如說對外送員本身產生霸凌性騷等人身對 所以我的意思是說如果委員要做這樣子的提案的方向的話我們建議是不是把要把那個範圍做一個合理的框定"},{"start":33766.24,"end":33768.944,"text":"對 但是就是說大家就可能要在這裡面做一些框定"},{"start":33773.098,"end":33800.477,"text":"謝謝委員那我們可不可以有個思考的方式就是在第二項我們最主要是要損害外送員權益的以這個為前提那我們是不是在後面就寫說違反外送服務契約或頓耗本法及其他法令自有損害外送員權益之餘也就是說我們第一個我們"},{"start":33802.778,"end":33817.303,"text":"對對然後他要嘛就違反外送服務契約要嘛違反本法要反就違反其他法律文字啦對這樣修我覺得很好那是不是請市長宣讀一下"},{"start":33821.939,"end":33833.545,"text":"第8條 第二項 外送平台業者違反外送服務契約頓好本法或其他法令規定自有損害外送員權益之餘很好 今天勞動部很有效率"},{"start":33845.865,"end":33852.63,"text":"好那這一條就有沒有其他委員有意見請洪孟愷委員發言本席針對剛剛我們討論的這個第53頁第53頁等於是第第8條"},{"start":33861.816,"end":33886.472,"text":"第八條這本席不堅持那這個就依照行政部門這邊通過但是我們能不能稍微因為我剛也一直在思考我們所謂的第五十四十八頁四十八頁剛剛行政部門講到就是劉建國委員的第七條的這個違反的這一些法令那以及第五十頁"},{"start":33888.673,"end":33905.374,"text":"就是說能不能再更明確因為我剛剛一直在思考的時候還會有一個樣態這個樣態可能我們要明確就是說現在你第7條裡面講的是說違反這相關的法律那到底是違反還是真的有判刑違反"},{"start":33906.277,"end":33926.372,"text":"好對沒有錯就是說我們當然一方面要保障消費者因為外送員如果說犯了這個性騷跟騷等等的我們絕對是不允許但另外一方面有一種狀況這也是本席一直剛剛在思考的如果說是消費者跟外送員的一個糾紛那如果假設消費者他就去投訴"},{"start":33929.083,"end":33945.63,"text":"你可以理解我消費者投訴譬如說消費者覺得說他很不舒服就是也許是外送員沒有配合他一定要送到哪裡等等的那就消費者就亂投訴那會不會導致平台就因為這樣子來去懲罰外送員他在還沒有調查釐清之前懲罰外送員"},{"start":33949.458,"end":33971.214,"text":"這過去我記得也有些相關的新聞就是說因為他有一個投訴機制那你只要你沒有配合我就拿上來然後爬樓層而且我們現在的外送平台不是只是那個一般的餐點也有商品那如果說是比較重或說比較大型的商品那他沒有送到消費者指定的地方然後讓消費者用"},{"start":33971.934,"end":33985.596,"text":"这种莫须民的罪名去投诉那会不会让平台业者马上就跟外送员解约而没有给外送员任何的申诉那外送员会觉得说他明明没做啊"},{"start":33988.076,"end":34005.909,"text":"所以說我為什麼會去提49頁的這個14條其實有一點類似說我還是要有一個緩衝期要求平台跟外送員解約的時候你也要有一個確認的時間那當然是不是一定要30日"},{"start":34007.21,"end":34030.558,"text":"不一定可是我必須要有一個防弊的機制就說不是今天消費者講了一個你違反性騷或說我覺得這個外送員我看你不順眼我就惡意搞你那我去投訴之後馬上外送平台就可以把它給解約然後變成是外送員他自己要去尋求自力救濟的管道那這個樣他也怎麼處理"},{"start":34039.065,"end":34052.976,"text":"謝謝委員我跟委員來報告第七條我們主要就認為外送員的工作非常重大所以我們在第七條的第一項就是把它可以片面終止外送服務契約做一些框架"},{"start":34053.817,"end":34070.689,"text":"一定要符合這些情節你才能夠終止外送服務契約那第二項我們最主要是希望保護他讓他再被這個終止外送契約或其他權益的不利決定就像停權因為實務上我們的外送員常常抱怨說他不當的被停權"},{"start":34071.93,"end":34090.842,"text":"當他要做這個事的時候要續名完整簡明可以理解的事由通知外送員而且我們要求平台要負舉證並不是今天外送員要自己舉證說我是沒有這個行為而是你平台要負舉證責任還有一個很重要就是我們有一個申訴機會那也請委員可以看一下我們的第9條"},{"start":34092.642,"end":34119.439,"text":"我們把申訴做得非常完整的規範特別是連停權終止外送服務契約或許多外送員的不利決定這些部分他都可以來申訴那我們也要求平台要建立申訴的制度包括誰來受理受理處理流程處理時間跟回覆方式還有一點很重要就是如果申訴後發現是誤判他還有一個補償措施我們要求外送平台要公開"},{"start":34120.64,"end":34146.031,"text":"然后最后一项就是针对我们大家最在意的就是终止契约所以我们终止契约有个独立小组来做一个审视那因为委员提的这版本我们担心就是说他只要讲理由就好了那我怕我们就担心说他讲理由他可以没有任何的要求的理由的规范跟条件跟标准那会不会降电的话反而他很容易平台就是把人给"},{"start":34147.491,"end":34172.898,"text":"送走就終止服務契約所以我們是不是還是用7跟9條來替代這樣一個條文OK所以你現在講的第9條就是在第67頁67頁第9條那就是申訴就是我們希望有個申訴制度剛剛委員講的沒有錯外送員就覺得他根本無處申訴而且根本平台也不太願意好好去審視說"},{"start":34174.198,"end":34190.354,"text":"他的行為到底有沒有這件事那有時候是消費者他們有時候覺得是消費者這個不當誤會啊然後亂申訴亂投訴所以我們希望在這套制度裡面讓外送員有一個空間機會得到一些救濟"},{"start":34192.794,"end":34213.653,"text":"是因为你已经有写到对那就是第67页的那个第三点就是进行申诉第三点其实这个就是本席刚刚所提到的就是说有些时候因为你前面的那些法令但是有些时候真的因为样态白白走当然我们要不能劣币驱逐良币所以99%可能都是"},{"start":34214.593,"end":34237.06,"text":"優良的外送員也優良的消費者但是1%我們絕對不允許那個劣質的外送員那還有有一些時候真的也是顧客他比較沒有道理這個也確實在過去的新聞裡面都有發生過所以你就變成是在這第三點就外送員跟合作廠商或消費者有外送服務爭議的時候可以啟動這所謂的申訴機制"},{"start":34241.331,"end":34265.449,"text":"那這樣其實 那連帶第九條 連帶第九條看啦對 等於是明天討論第九條的時候可以回來那如果說明天要討論第九條的時候我建議如同剛剛我們盧先生委員有提到就是說身分別的部分是不是也請行政部門能夠帶回去研議就是說因為盧先生委員他確實也站在我們原住民同胞的立場上面來保障如果說真的外送員"},{"start":34266.269,"end":34293.254,"text":"有原住民的身份那是不是在那個爭議小組裡面也要納入一個原住民的代表那這明天明天要求是不是提出來的時候你們也先做一個研議好不好以上謝謝好那這個第8條就是布版的第8條就是依照這個劉建國委員等16人提案及這個剛剛王育民委員還有仲裁委員的意見修正通過"},{"start":34297.892,"end":34313.057,"text":"好那現在因為已經處理到第8條了現在做一下決議外送平台管理暨從業人員權益保障法草案等26案尚未審查完均於明日繼續審查本日會議到此結束現在休息"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}