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所有的內容都已經公開給全國"},{"start":243.68,"end":245.68,"text":"不是我問你問題就回答就好了"},{"start":245.68,"end":247.68,"text":"你不要跟扯別的"},{"start":247.68,"end":249.68,"text":"中聯的人是不是在現場就直接聽到你們在討論"},{"start":249.68,"end":251.68,"text":"下架標準有沒有嘛"},{"start":251.68,"end":253.68,"text":"我想我們討論跟他"},{"start":253.68,"end":255.68,"text":"有沒有在現場"},{"start":255.68,"end":257.68,"text":"我們持續在討論"},{"start":257.68,"end":259.68,"text":"我們持續在討論"},{"start":259.68,"end":261.68,"text":"不要扯別的好不好"},{"start":261.68,"end":263.68,"text":"報告報告報告報告主席"},{"start":263.68,"end":265.68,"text":"你可不可以約束一下這個官員"},{"start":265.68,"end":267.68,"text":"我問他的問題他一直扯別的"},{"start":267.68,"end":269.68,"text":"這樣子你給我20分鐘都不夠啊"},{"start":269.68,"end":271.68,"text":"大家全部靠在這邊啊"},{"start":271.68,"end":273.68,"text":"就照著問題回答"},{"start":273.68,"end":275.68,"text":"中聯的人你們在討論下架標準的時候"},{"start":275.68,"end":277.68,"text":"他在不在現場有沒有"},{"start":277.68,"end":279.68,"text":"在不在"},{"start":279.68,"end":281.68,"text":"容我說明"},{"start":281.68,"end":283.68,"text":"我從頭到尾都有在討論"},{"start":283.68,"end":285.68,"text":"那從頭到尾都在嘛"},{"start":285.68,"end":287.68,"text":"所以時中聯說謊嘛"},{"start":287.68,"end":291.68,"text":"一個衛福部長可以在國會電臺公園說謊喔"},{"start":291.68,"end":293.68,"text":"所以時中聯要辭職"},{"start":293.68,"end":295.68,"text":"我猜可能他是因為"},{"start":295.68,"end":297.68,"text":"說謊辭職啦"},{"start":297.68,"end":299.68,"text":"那署長我現在問你啦"},{"start":299.68,"end":301.68,"text":"你後來講說7月4號"},{"start":301.68,"end":303.68,"text":"那個下架標準20%不用下架"},{"start":303.68,"end":305.68,"text":"是您的決策嗎"},{"start":305.68,"end":307.68,"text":"你有說過嗎"},{"start":307.68,"end":309.68,"text":"你有說過嘛"},{"start":309.68,"end":311.68,"text":"那專家因為主治黨我們都看了"},{"start":311.68,"end":313.68,"text":"有的專家"},{"start":313.68,"end":315.68,"text":"是講說"},{"start":315.68,"end":317.68,"text":"不用耍嘴皮子好不好"},{"start":317.68,"end":319.68,"text":"真的受不了耶"},{"start":319.68,"end":321.68,"text":"各位網友如果你們全國的民眾"},{"start":321.68,"end":323.68,"text":"如果有在看的話這就是我們的官啦"},{"start":323.68,"end":325.68,"text":"答不出問題的時候就在那邊耍嘴皮子"},{"start":325.68,"end":327.68,"text":"我在講很嚴肅的"},{"start":327.68,"end":329.68,"text":"食安問題你在跟我幹嘛跟我抬槓喔"},{"start":329.68,"end":331.68,"text":"誰教你的啦"},{"start":331.68,"end":333.68,"text":"卓榮泰教你的嗎"},{"start":333.68,"end":335.68,"text":"是卓榮泰教你的嗎"},{"start":335.68,"end":337.68,"text":"我在跟你討論食安問題"},{"start":337.68,"end":339.68,"text":"在跟我抬槓"},{"start":339.68,"end":341.68,"text":"有兩個專家啦"},{"start":341.68,"end":343.68,"text":"一個G專家"},{"start":343.68,"end":345.68,"text":"他講說"},{"start":345.68,"end":347.68,"text":"就定20%"},{"start":347.68,"end":349.68,"text":"就會定於容許值對不對"},{"start":349.68,"end":351.68,"text":"還有一個另外一個E專家"},{"start":351.68,"end":353.68,"text":"講說如果只考慮"},{"start":353.68,"end":355.68,"text":"比例而沒有考慮到"},{"start":355.68,"end":357.68,"text":"劑量的話因為他舉了一個膠囊的例子"},{"start":357.68,"end":359.68,"text":"跟一個面的例子"},{"start":359.68,"end":361.68,"text":"你使用不同的劑量"},{"start":361.68,"end":363.68,"text":"他所使用到的粉填皮就會不一樣"},{"start":363.68,"end":365.68,"text":"有吧"},{"start":365.68,"end":367.68,"text":"這個會議記錄上面有這樣寫吧"},{"start":367.68,"end":369.68,"text":"有這樣子的"},{"start":369.68,"end":371.68,"text":"那我就很好奇啊"},{"start":371.68,"end":373.68,"text":"如果我們今天針對食安標準"},{"start":373.68,"end":375.68,"text":"因為採取零容忍的標準"},{"start":375.68,"end":377.68,"text":"這一次民進黨一直跟大家講的"},{"start":377.68,"end":379.68,"text":"食安五環食安零容忍"},{"start":379.68,"end":381.68,"text":"結果你召開一個食安會議"},{"start":381.68,"end":383.68,"text":"有的專家認為20%就可以"},{"start":383.68,"end":385.68,"text":"有的專家認為說"},{"start":385.68,"end":387.68,"text":"這20%沒有考慮到劑量"},{"start":387.68,"end":389.68,"text":"可能還是有風險"},{"start":389.68,"end":391.68,"text":"結果署長在拍板定案的時候"},{"start":391.68,"end":393.68,"text":"忽略了對食安比較重視的專家"},{"start":393.68,"end":395.68,"text":"反而聽信了"},{"start":395.68,"end":397.68,"text":"對食安比較寬鬆的專家"},{"start":397.68,"end":399.68,"text":"我不知道為什麼署長您對於食安"},{"start":399.68,"end":401.68,"text":"是這樣子的態度"},{"start":401.68,"end":403.68,"text":"可是同學我現在給您"},{"start":403.68,"end":405.68,"text":"留意一步回答"},{"start":405.68,"end":407.68,"text":"這個扁平皮8.1ppp"},{"start":407.68,"end":409.68,"text":"按照我們的所謂的"},{"start":409.68,"end":411.68,"text":"暴露算起來的"},{"start":411.68,"end":413.68,"text":"Margin of Social MOE"},{"start":413.68,"end":415.68,"text":"大於1萬"},{"start":415.68,"end":417.68,"text":"他是可忽略的"},{"start":417.68,"end":419.68,"text":"更何況呢下降到20%"},{"start":419.68,"end":421.68,"text":"從科學上面他是這樣"},{"start":421.68,"end":423.68,"text":"但是安全跟安心"},{"start":423.68,"end":425.68,"text":"國人對於食品的安心"},{"start":425.68,"end":427.68,"text":"需要我更多的努力"},{"start":427.68,"end":429.68,"text":"更多的溝通"},{"start":429.68,"end":431.68,"text":"所以這個過程中"},{"start":431.68,"end":433.68,"text":"MOE這件事情相當複雜"},{"start":433.68,"end":435.68,"text":"有機會可以上課"},{"start":435.68,"end":437.68,"text":"署長我都聽過了"},{"start":437.68,"end":439.68,"text":"署長所以你的意思是說"},{"start":439.68,"end":441.68,"text":"食安的專報"},{"start":441.68,"end":443.68,"text":"就是食安專家來各合言而至"},{"start":443.68,"end":445.68,"text":"反正你心中有定見"},{"start":445.68,"end":447.68,"text":"最後就是你來拍板擺這件事"},{"start":447.68,"end":449.68,"text":"因為我現在問你的問題"},{"start":449.68,"end":451.68,"text":"就是說那麼多食安專家"},{"start":451.68,"end":453.68,"text":"在討論結果你只聽信了"},{"start":453.68,"end":455.68,"text":"那些對食安標準比較寬鬆的"},{"start":455.68,"end":457.68,"text":"而對食安比較嚴謹的專家"},{"start":457.68,"end":459.68,"text":"你就忽略結果你講的是你自己的看法"},{"start":459.68,"end":461.68,"text":"代表說你自己就有這個"},{"start":461.68,"end":463.68,"text":"定見20%就是你將至剛"},{"start":463.68,"end":465.68,"text":"定的那如果是這樣的話"},{"start":465.68,"end":467.68,"text":"後來何必下架總統為什麼"},{"start":467.68,"end":469.68,"text":"在六天後發文說該下架就下架"},{"start":469.68,"end":471.68,"text":"我跟我講安全跟安心"},{"start":471.68,"end":473.68,"text":"所以是總統總統"},{"start":473.68,"end":475.68,"text":"沒有聽信你的專業意見是不是"},{"start":475.68,"end":477.68,"text":"跟全世界的獨立的專家"},{"start":477.68,"end":479.68,"text":"應該比較偏向"},{"start":479.68,"end":481.68,"text":"沒關係這個我想"},{"start":481.68,"end":483.68,"text":"我想這個7月4號專家會議"},{"start":483.68,"end":485.68,"text":"開完之後剛剛大家也都聽到了"},{"start":485.68,"end":487.68,"text":"那麼多專家表達意見"},{"start":487.68,"end":489.68,"text":"組長的意思就是以自己的意見"},{"start":489.68,"end":491.68,"text":"來決定20%"},{"start":491.68,"end":493.68,"text":"你剛剛就是用你自己的意見在講"},{"start":493.68,"end":495.68,"text":"我剛剛問你說那麼多專家不同意見"},{"start":495.68,"end":497.68,"text":"為什麼你採用了那個居專家意見"},{"start":497.68,"end":499.68,"text":"你說沒有講一大堆你的自己的意見"},{"start":499.68,"end":501.68,"text":"所以你就是自己來判斷"},{"start":501.68,"end":503.68,"text":"20%應該下架"},{"start":503.68,"end":505.68,"text":"謝謝組長請回"},{"start":505.68,"end":507.68,"text":"那我請經濟部長"},{"start":507.68,"end":509.68,"text":"希望你不要跟那個署長一樣"},{"start":509.68,"end":511.68,"text":"我們就是認識討論問題"},{"start":511.68,"end":513.6800000000001,"text":"那種品質一樣不會加分"},{"start":513.6800000000001,"end":515.6800000000001,"text":"不會對民進黨政府加分"},{"start":515.6800000000001,"end":517.6800000000001,"text":"那個部長"},{"start":517.6800000000001,"end":519.6800000000001,"text":"我今天早上聽了很多民黨立委"},{"start":519.6800000000001,"end":521.6800000000001,"text":"用了各式各樣的比喻"},{"start":521.6800000000001,"end":523.6800000000001,"text":"在比喻說台銅到底要不通報"},{"start":523.6800000000001,"end":525.6800000000001,"text":"我其實也是覺得很匪夷所思"},{"start":525.6800000000001,"end":527.6800000000001,"text":"有一位立委講說偽鈔要通報"},{"start":527.6800000000001,"end":529.6800000000001,"text":"什麼黃金存度不足就不用通報"},{"start":529.6800000000001,"end":531.6800000000001,"text":"黃金存度不足是會影響到"},{"start":531.6800000000001,"end":533.6800000000001,"text":"什麼食安的問題嗎"},{"start":533.6800000000001,"end":535.6800000000001,"text":"還是黃金存度不足你買了之後"},{"start":535.68,"end":537.68,"text":"會影響到什麼市場秩序的問題嗎"},{"start":537.68,"end":539.68,"text":"現在大家在討論這個問題"},{"start":539.68,"end":541.68,"text":"為什麼在討論原料"},{"start":541.68,"end":543.68,"text":"為什麼要採用高標準"},{"start":543.68,"end":545.68,"text":"如果驗出來本便品超標要通報"},{"start":545.68,"end":547.68,"text":"就是因為大家可能會讓人家"},{"start":547.68,"end":549.68,"text":"吃到肚子裡面會影響到健康"},{"start":549.68,"end":551.68,"text":"所以不要再用不仁不惠的比喻"},{"start":551.68,"end":553.68,"text":"那我覺得經濟部"},{"start":553.68,"end":555.68,"text":"我不知道部長您這個貼文"},{"start":555.68,"end":557.68,"text":"在PO出來之前你有沒有看過"},{"start":557.68,"end":559.68,"text":"我們來看一下你的貼文"},{"start":559.68,"end":561.68,"text":"一開始的時候經濟部為了幫台銅護航"},{"start":561.68,"end":563.68,"text":"說再次"},{"start":563.68,"end":565.68,"text":"再次證實"},{"start":565.68,"end":567.68,"text":"要讓客人安心"},{"start":567.68,"end":569.68,"text":"從原料到產品"},{"start":569.68,"end":571.68,"text":"台銅都是用高標準自我檢驗"},{"start":571.68,"end":573.68,"text":"自己的好寶寶"},{"start":573.68,"end":575.68,"text":"然後後來"},{"start":575.68,"end":577.68,"text":"在下午不到一個多小時"},{"start":577.68,"end":579.68,"text":"就把它改了"},{"start":579.68,"end":581.68,"text":"改成說再次提醒什麼"},{"start":581.68,"end":583.68,"text":"要讓客人安心從原料到產品"},{"start":583.68,"end":585.68,"text":"台銅都是用高標準自我檢驗"},{"start":585.68,"end":587.68,"text":"自己的乖寶寶"},{"start":587.68,"end":589.68,"text":"所以"},{"start":589.68,"end":591.68,"text":"大家就開始討論了"},{"start":591.68,"end":593.68,"text":"好寶寶跟乖寶寶差別在哪裡"},{"start":593.68,"end":595.68,"text":"部長我問一下"},{"start":595.68,"end":597.68,"text":"從好寶寶改到乖寶寶"},{"start":597.68,"end":599.68,"text":"是為了什麼"},{"start":599.68,"end":601.68,"text":"然後好寶寶是什麼意思"},{"start":601.68,"end":603.68,"text":"就這個個案上面"},{"start":603.68,"end":605.68,"text"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有通報是一個"},{"start":811.68,"end":813.68,"text":"很大的問題我更不得因為你們都完全不了解"},{"start":813.68,"end":815.68,"text":"大家在講什麼"},{"start":815.68,"end":817.68,"text":"問題就是其實他就是上中下游"},{"start":817.68,"end":819.68,"text":"的一環嘛他今天"},{"start":819.68,"end":821.68,"text":"有買到不管是脫膠原油"},{"start":821.68,"end":823.68,"text":"或什麼最後不是食品的東西"},{"start":823.68,"end":825.68,"text":"那你驗出來本品比超標"},{"start":825.68,"end":827.68,"text":"實際上通如果有通報的話"},{"start":827.68,"end":829.68,"text":"大家就多一層安心"},{"start":829.68,"end":831.68,"text":"而且剛剛我聽到其他委員"},{"start":831.68,"end":833.68,"text":"在質詢台湯的時候確實"},{"start":833.68,"end":835.68,"text":"證明了一件事情就是以前"},{"start":835.68,"end":837.68,"text":"買的脫膠原油都沒有"},{"start":837.68,"end":839.68,"text":"本品比超標但這次"},{"start":839.68,"end":841.68,"text":"買的就有超標"},{"start":841.68,"end":843.68,"text":"超標的好像七倍還八倍非常"},{"start":843.68,"end":845.68,"text":"高就已經很不尋常了"},{"start":845.68,"end":847.68,"text":"然後事實也證明這一次"},{"start":847.68,"end":849.68,"text":"確實中聯所生產出來的那些"},{"start":849.68,"end":851.68,"text":"不管是精油也好食品也好"},{"start":851.68,"end":853.68,"text":"都有一些就有本品比超標"},{"start":853.68,"end":855.68,"text":"可能是原料的問題所以你有沒有發現"},{"start":855.68,"end":857.68,"text":"如果這一次台湯"},{"start":857.68,"end":859.68,"text":"五月中的時候有通報的話"},{"start":859.68,"end":861.68,"text":"實際上大家很可能"},{"start":861.68,"end":863.68,"text":"就根據這個線索去查到了"},{"start":863.68,"end":865.68,"text":"中聯其他的油可能"},{"start":865.68,"end":867.68,"text":"有問題就可以讓大家少吃"},{"start":867.68,"end":869.68,"text":"很多天的本品比啊"},{"start":869.68,"end":871.68,"text":"所以這個問題重點在這裡嘛"},{"start":871.68,"end":873.68,"text":"結果我每次我看到"},{"start":873.68,"end":875.68,"text":"很多委員都在質詢部長"},{"start":875.68,"end":877.68,"text":"或是外服部都在玩文字遊戲"},{"start":877.68,"end":879.68,"text":"都在那邊講說這個到底是"},{"start":879.68,"end":881.68,"text":"原料這不是食品的原料"},{"start":881.68,"end":883.68,"text":"原料是大豆"},{"start":883.68,"end":885.68,"text":"他是脫膠原油全部都在講"},{"start":885.68,"end":887.68,"text":"文字遊戲那你有把人民"},{"start":887.68,"end":889.68,"text":"的健康放在心裡嗎"},{"start":889.68,"end":891.68,"text":"如果你多做一點事情"},{"start":891.68,"end":893.68,"text":"人民就少吃非常"},{"start":893.68,"end":895.68,"text":"多天的本品比耶"},{"start":895.68,"end":897.68,"text":"所以你們到現在還是一直"},{"start":897.68,"end":899.68,"text":"我都不覺得說我們要做更好"},{"start":899.68,"end":901.68,"text":"都還在啊我覺得大家真的"},{"start":901.68,"end":903.68,"text":"我覺得大家真的會看不下去"},{"start":903.68,"end":905.68,"text":"然後更不要說"},{"start":905.68,"end":907.68,"text":"台湯是國營事業"},{"start":907.68,"end":909.68,"text":"國營政府是一體的耶"},{"start":909.68,"end":911.68,"text":"部長請你回應一下"},{"start":911.68,"end":913.68,"text":"八位委員"},{"start":913.68,"end":915.68,"text":"台湯查到311油桶"},{"start":915.68,"end":917.68,"text":"基本上已經"},{"start":917.68,"end":919.68,"text":"簽封起來現在還在中聯"},{"start":919.68,"end":921.68,"text":"那是誰"},{"start":921.68,"end":923.68,"text":"那一批基本上是後話"},{"start":923.68,"end":925.68,"text":"那如果中聯把它賣出去了"},{"start":925.68,"end":927.68,"text":"賣出去的話中聯就"},{"start":927.68,"end":929.68,"text":"很大的問題"},{"start":929.68,"end":931.68,"text":"所以他沒有賣出"},{"start":931.68,"end":933.68,"text":"你現在是用結果論"},{"start":933.68,"end":935.68,"text":"你說因為他沒賣所以沒差"},{"start":935.68,"end":937.68,"text":"但是如果中聯把它賣你剛剛就說有問題"},{"start":937.68,"end":939.68,"text":"所以台湯"},{"start":939.68,"end":941.68,"text":"就是應該通報"},{"start":941.68,"end":943.68,"text":"不管他有沒有賣"},{"start":943.68,"end":945.68,"text":"因為他有可能會賣"},{"start":945.68,"end":947.68,"text":"所以台湯就是應該通報"},{"start":947.68,"end":949.68,"text":"因為上中下游"},{"start":949.68,"end":951.68,"text":"就是要互相簽字"},{"start":951.68,"end":953.68,"text":"因為中聯他"},{"start":953.68,"end":955.68,"text":"被認為他有超標"},{"start":955.68,"end":957.68,"text":"就是有比較高的情況下"},{"start":957.68,"end":959.68,"text":"他有幾種方式"},{"start":959.68,"end":961.68,"text":"第一個他可以不要用使用的"},{"start":961.68,"end":963.68,"text":"第二個他經驗過程可以多幾道"},{"start":963.68,"end":965.68,"text":"那成本差很多"},{"start":965.68,"end":967.68,"text":"所以為什麼台湯公司不願意接受"},{"start":967.68,"end":969.68,"text":"因為他"},{"start":969.68,"end":971.68,"text":"這樣的一個標準"},{"start":971.68,"end":973.68,"text":"他在經驗過程當中要花很多很多的成本進去"},{"start":973.68,"end":975.68,"text":"所以"},{"start":975.68,"end":977.68,"text":"這個我都知道這個不能放我"},{"start":977.68,"end":979.68,"text":"我覺得不要讓他回去你回答別人都這樣"},{"start":979.68,"end":981.68,"text":"但我覺得關鍵是你有沒有發現"},{"start":981.68,"end":983.68,"text":"他台湯"},{"start":983.68,"end":985.68,"text":"以前都沒有買過"},{"start":985.68,"end":987.68,"text":"等評比超標這麼高的有"},{"start":987.68,"end":989.68,"text":"剛剛台湯講的嘛"},{"start":989.68,"end":991.68,"text":"然後這一次"},{"start":991.68,"end":993.68,"text":"他買到了"},{"start":993.68,"end":995.68,"text":"他退回去不關我的事了反正我不用就好"},{"start":995.68,"end":997.68,"text":"據收"},{"start":997.68,"end":999.68,"text":"他據收"},{"start":999.68,"end":1001.68,"text":"這就不關我的事了反正我沒用就好"},{"start":1001.68,"end":1003.68,"text":"可是你有沒有發現"},{"start":1003.68,"end":1005.68,"text":"實際上整批不是只有這一桶"},{"start":1005.68,"end":1007.68,"text":"整批"},{"start":1007.68,"end":1009.68,"text":"整批的中聯有一大堆出問題"},{"start":1009.68,"end":1011.68,"text":"所以如果台湯"},{"start":1011.68,"end":1013.68,"text":"如果台湯五月多就有通報的話"},{"start":1013.68,"e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