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所有的內容都已經公開給全國"},{"start":243.68,"end":245.68,"text":"不是我問你問題就回答就好了"},{"start":245.68,"end":247.68,"text":"你不要跟扯別的"},{"start":247.68,"end":249.68,"text":"中聯的人是不是在現場就直接聽到你們在討論"},{"start":249.68,"end":251.68,"text":"下架標準有沒有嘛"},{"start":251.68,"end":253.68,"text":"我想我們討論跟他"},{"start":253.68,"end":255.68,"text":"有沒有在現場"},{"start":255.68,"end":257.68,"text":"我們持續在討論"},{"start":257.68,"end":259.68,"text":"我們持續在討論"},{"start":259.68,"end":261.68,"text":"不要扯別的好不好"},{"start":261.68,"end":263.68,"text":"報告報告報告報告主席"},{"start":263.68,"end":265.68,"text":"你可不可以約束一下這個官員"},{"start":265.68,"end":267.68,"text":"我問他的問題他一直扯別的"},{"start":267.68,"end":269.68,"text":"這樣子你給我20分鐘都不夠啊"},{"start":269.68,"end":271.68,"text":"大家全部靠在這邊啊"},{"start":271.68,"end":273.68,"text":"就照著問題回答"},{"start":273.68,"end":275.68,"text":"中聯的人你們在討論下架標準的時候"},{"start":275.68,"end":277.68,"text":"他在不在現場有沒有"},{"start":277.68,"end":279.68,"text":"在不在"},{"start":279.68,"end":281.68,"text":"容我說明"},{"start":281.68,"end":283.68,"text":"我從頭到尾都有在討論"},{"start":283.68,"end":285.68,"text":"那從頭到尾都在嘛"},{"start":285.68,"end":287.68,"text":"所以時中聯說謊嘛"},{"start":287.68,"end":291.68,"text":"一個衛福部長可以在國會電臺公園說謊喔"},{"start":291.68,"end":293.68,"text":"所以時中聯要辭職"},{"start":293.68,"end":295.68,"text":"我猜可能他是因為"},{"start":295.68,"end":297.68,"text":"說謊辭職啦"},{"start":297.68,"end":299.68,"text":"那署長我現在問你啦"},{"start":299.68,"end":301.68,"text":"你後來講說7月4號"},{"start":301.68,"end":303.68,"text":"那個下架標準20%不用下架"},{"start":303.68,"end":305.68,"text":"是您的決策嗎"},{"start":305.68,"end":307.68,"text":"你有說過嗎"},{"start":307.68,"end":309.68,"text":"你有說過嘛"},{"start":309.68,"end":311.68,"text":"那專家因為主治黨我們都看了"},{"start":311.68,"end":313.68,"text":"有的專家"},{"start":313.68,"end":315.68,"text":"是講說"},{"start":315.68,"end":317.68,"text":"不用耍嘴皮子好不好"},{"start":317.68,"end":319.68,"text":"真的受不了耶"},{"start":319.68,"end":321.68,"text":"各位網友如果你們全國的民眾"},{"start":321.68,"end":323.68,"text":"如果有在看的話這就是我們的官啦"},{"start":323.68,"end":325.68,"text":"答不出問題的時候就在那邊耍嘴皮子"},{"start":325.68,"end":327.68,"text":"我在講很嚴肅的"},{"start":327.68,"end":329.68,"text":"食安問題你在跟我幹嘛跟我抬槓喔"},{"start":329.68,"end":331.68,"text":"誰教你的啦"},{"start":331.68,"end":333.68,"text":"卓榮泰教你的嗎"},{"start":333.68,"end":335.68,"text":"是卓榮泰教你的嗎"},{"start":335.68,"end":337.68,"text":"我在跟你討論食安問題"},{"start":337.68,"end":339.68,"text":"在跟我抬槓"},{"start":339.68,"end":341.68,"text":"有兩個專家啦"},{"start":341.68,"end":343.68,"text":"一個G專家"},{"start":343.68,"end":345.68,"text":"他講說"},{"start":345.68,"end":347.68,"text":"就定20%"},{"start":347.68,"end":349.68,"text":"就會定於容許值對不對"},{"start":349.68,"end":351.68,"text":"還有一個另外一個E專家"},{"start":351.68,"end":353.68,"text":"講說如果只考慮"},{"start":353.68,"end":355.68,"text":"比例而沒有考慮到"},{"start":355.68,"end":357.68,"text":"劑量的話因為他舉了一個膠囊的例子"},{"start":357.68,"end":359.68,"text":"跟一個面的例子"},{"start":359.68,"end":361.68,"text":"你使用不同的劑量"},{"start":361.68,"end":363.68,"text":"他所使用到的粉填皮就會不一樣"},{"start":363.68,"end":365.68,"text":"有吧"},{"start":365.68,"end":367.68,"text":"這個會議記錄上面有這樣寫吧"},{"start":367.68,"end":369.68,"text":"有這樣子的"},{"start":369.68,"end":371.68,"text":"那我就很好奇啊"},{"start":371.68,"end":373.68,"text":"如果我們今天針對食安標準"},{"start":373.68,"end":375.68,"text":"因為採取零容忍的標準"},{"start":375.68,"end":377.68,"text":"這一次民進黨一直跟大家講的"},{"start":377.68,"end":379.68,"text":"食安五環食安零容忍"},{"start":379.68,"end":381.68,"text":"結果你召開一個食安會議"},{"start":381.68,"end":383.68,"text":"有的專家認為20%就可以"},{"start":383.68,"end":385.68,"text":"有的專家認為說"},{"start":385.68,"end":387.68,"text":"這20%沒有考慮到劑量"},{"start":387.68,"end":389.68,"text":"可能還是有風險"},{"start":389.68,"end":391.68,"text":"結果署長在拍板定案的時候"},{"start":391.68,"end":393.68,"text":"忽略了對食安比較重視的專家"},{"start":393.68,"end":395.68,"text":"反而聽信了"},{"start":395.68,"end":397.68,"text":"對食安比較寬鬆的專家"},{"start":397.68,"end":399.68,"text":"我不知道為什麼署長您對於食安"},{"start":399.68,"end":401.68,"text":"是這樣子的態度"},{"start":401.68,"end":403.68,"text":"可是同學我現在給您"},{"start":403.68,"end":405.68,"text":"留意一步回答"},{"start":405.68,"end":407.68,"text":"這個扁平皮8.1ppp"},{"start":407.68,"end":409.68,"text":"按照我們的所謂的"},{"start":409.68,"end":411.68,"text":"暴露算起來的"},{"start":411.68,"end":413.68,"text":"Margin of Social MOE"},{"start":413.68,"end":415.68,"text":"大於1萬"},{"start":415.68,"end":417.68,"text":"他是可忽略的"},{"start":417.68,"end":419.68,"text":"更何況呢下降到20%"},{"start":419.68,"end":421.68,"text":"從科學上面他是這樣"},{"start":421.68,"end":423.68,"text":"但是安全跟安心"},{"start":423.68,"end":425.68,"text":"國人對於食品的安心"},{"start":425.68,"end":427.68,"text":"需要我更多的努力"},{"start":427.68,"end":429.68,"text":"更多的溝通"},{"start":429.68,"end":431.68,"text":"所以這個過程中"},{"start":431.68,"end":433.68,"text":"MOE這件事情相當複雜"},{"start":433.68,"end":435.68,"text":"有機會可以上課"},{"start":435.68,"end":437.68,"text":"署長我都聽過了"},{"start":437.68,"end":439.68,"text":"署長所以你的意思是說"},{"start":439.68,"end":441.68,"text":"食安的專報"},{"start":441.68,"end":443.68,"text":"就是食安專家來各合言而至"},{"start":443.68,"end":445.68,"text":"反正你心中有定見"},{"start":445.68,"end":447.68,"text":"最後就是你來拍板擺這件事"},{"start":447.68,"end":449.68,"text":"因為我現在問你的問題"},{"start":449.68,"end":451.68,"text":"就是說那麼多食安專家"},{"start":451.68,"end":453.68,"text":"在討論結果你只聽信了"},{"start":453.68,"end":455.68,"text":"那些對食安標準比較寬鬆的"},{"start":455.68,"end":457.68,"text":"而對食安比較嚴謹的專家"},{"start":457.68,"end":459.68,"text":"你就忽略結果你講的是你自己的看法"},{"start":459.68,"end":461.68,"text":"代表說你自己就有這個"},{"start":461.68,"end":463.68,"text":"定見20%就是你將至剛"},{"start":463.68,"end":465.68,"text":"定的那如果是這樣的話"},{"start":465.68,"end":467.68,"text":"後來何必下架總統為什麼"},{"start":467.68,"end":469.68,"text":"在六天後發文說該下架就下架"},{"start":469.68,"end":471.68,"text":"我跟我講安全跟安心"},{"start":471.68,"end":473.68,"text":"所以是總統總統"},{"start":473.68,"end":475.68,"text":"沒有聽信你的專業意見是不是"},{"start":475.68,"end":477.68,"text":"跟全世界的獨立的專家"},{"start":477.68,"end":479.68,"text":"應該比較偏向"},{"start":479.68,"end":481.68,"text":"沒關係這個我想"},{"start":481.68,"end":483.68,"text":"我想這個7月4號專家會議"},{"start":483.68,"end":485.68,"text":"開完之後剛剛大家也都聽到了"},{"start":485.68,"end":487.68,"text":"那麼多專家表達意見"},{"start":487.68,"end":489.68,"text":"組長的意思就是以自己的意見"},{"start":489.68,"end":491.68,"text":"來決定20%"},{"start":491.68,"end":493.68,"text":"你剛剛就是用你自己的意見在講"},{"start":493.68,"end":495.68,"text":"我剛剛問你說那麼多專家不同意見"},{"start":495.68,"end":497.68,"text":"為什麼你採用了那個居專家意見"},{"start":497.68,"end":499.68,"text":"你說沒有講一大堆你的自己的意見"},{"start":499.68,"end":501.68,"text":"所以你就是自己來判斷"},{"start":501.68,"end":503.68,"text":"20%應該下架"},{"start":503.68,"end":505.68,"text":"謝謝組長請回"},{"start":505.68,"end":507.68,"text":"那我請經濟部長"},{"start":507.68,"end":509.68,"text":"希望你不要跟那個署長一樣"},{"start":509.68,"end":511.68,"text":"我們就是認識討論問題"},{"start":511.68,"end":513.6800000000001,"text":"那種品質一樣不會加分"},{"start":513.6800000000001,"end":515.6800000000001,"text":"不會對民進黨政府加分"},{"start":515.6800000000001,"end":517.6800000000001,"text":"那個部長"},{"start":517.6800000000001,"end":519.6800000000001,"text":"我今天早上聽了很多民黨立委"},{"start":519.6800000000001,"end":521.6800000000001,"text":"用了各式各樣的比喻"},{"start":521.6800000000001,"end":523.6800000000001,"text":"在比喻說台銅到底要不通報"},{"start":523.6800000000001,"end":525.6800000000001,"text":"我其實也是覺得很匪夷所思"},{"start":525.6800000000001,"end":527.6800000000001,"text":"有一位立委講說偽鈔要通報"},{"start":527.6800000000001,"end":529.6800000000001,"text":"什麼黃金存度不足就不用通報"},{"start":529.6800000000001,"end":531.6800000000001,"text":"黃金存度不足是會影響到"},{"start":531.6800000000001,"end":533.6800000000001,"text":"什麼食安的問題嗎"},{"start":533.6800000000001,"end":535.6800000000001,"text":"還是黃金存度不足你買了之後"},{"start":535.68,"end":537.68,"text":"會影響到什麼市場秩序的問題嗎"},{"start":537.68,"end":539.68,"text":"現在大家在討論這個問題"},{"start":539.68,"end":541.68,"text":"為什麼在討論原料"},{"start":541.68,"end":543.68,"text":"為什麼要採用高標準"},{"start":543.68,"end":545.68,"text":"如果驗出來本便品超標要通報"},{"start":545.68,"end":547.68,"text":"就是因為大家可能會讓人家"},{"start":547.68,"end":549.68,"text":"吃到肚子裡面會影響到健康"},{"start":549.68,"end":551.68,"text":"所以不要再用不仁不惠的比喻"},{"start":551.68,"end":553.68,"text":"那我覺得經濟部"},{"start":553.68,"end":555.68,"text":"我不知道部長您這個貼文"},{"start":555.68,"end":557.68,"text":"在PO出來之前你有沒有看過"},{"start":557.68,"end":559.68,"text":"我們來看一下你的貼文"},{"start":559.68,"end":561.68,"text":"一開始的時候經濟部為了幫台銅護航"},{"start":561.68,"end":563.68,"text":"說再次"},{"start":563.68,"end":565.68,"text":"再次證實"},{"start":565.68,"end":567.68,"text":"要讓客人安心"},{"start":567.68,"end":569.68,"text":"從原料到產品"},{"start":569.68,"end":571.68,"text":"台銅都是用高標準自我檢驗"},{"start":571.68,"end":573.68,"text":"自己的好寶寶"},{"start":573.68,"end":575.68,"text":"然後後來"},{"start":575.68,"end":577.68,"text":"在下午不到一個多小時"},{"start":577.68,"end":579.68,"text":"就把它改了"},{"start":579.68,"end":581.68,"text":"改成說再次提醒什麼"},{"start":581.68,"end":583.68,"text":"要讓客人安心從原料到產品"},{"start":583.68,"end":585.68,"text":"台銅都是用高標準自我檢驗"},{"start":585.68,"end":587.68,"text":"自己的乖寶寶"},{"start":587.68,"end":589.68,"text":"所以"},{"start":589.68,"end":591.68,"text":"大家就開始討論了"},{"start":591.68,"end":593.68,"text":"好寶寶跟乖寶寶差別在哪裡"},{"start":593.68,"end":595.68,"text":"部長我問一下"},{"start":595.68,"end":597.68,"text":"從好寶寶改到乖寶寶"},{"start":597.68,"end":599.68,"text":"是為了什麼"},{"start":599.68,"end":601.68,"text":"然後好寶寶是什麼意思"},{"start":601.68,"end":603.68,"text":"就這個個案上面"},{"start":603.68,"end":605.68,"text"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有通報是一個"},{"start":811.68,"end":813.68,"text":"很大的問題我更不得因為你們都完全不了解"},{"start":813.68,"end":815.68,"text":"大家在講什麼"},{"start":815.68,"end":817.68,"text":"問題就是其實他就是上中下游"},{"start":817.68,"end":819.68,"text":"的一環嘛他今天"},{"start":819.68,"end":821.68,"text":"有買到不管是脫膠原油"},{"start":821.68,"end":823.68,"text":"或什麼最後不是食品的東西"},{"start":823.68,"end":825.68,"text":"那你驗出來本品比超標"},{"start":825.68,"end":827.68,"text":"實際上通如果有通報的話"},{"start":827.68,"end":829.68,"text":"大家就多一層安心"},{"start":829.68,"end":831.68,"text":"而且剛剛我聽到其他委員"},{"start":831.68,"end":833.68,"text":"在質詢台湯的時候確實"},{"start":833.68,"end":835.68,"text":"證明了一件事情就是以前"},{"start":835.68,"end":837.68,"text":"買的脫膠原油都沒有"},{"start":837.68,"end":839.68,"text":"本品比超標但這次"},{"start":839.68,"end":841.68,"text":"買的就有超標"},{"start":841.68,"end":843.68,"text":"超標的好像七倍還八倍非常"},{"start":843.68,"end":845.68,"text":"高就已經很不尋常了"},{"start":845.68,"end":847.68,"text":"然後事實也證明這一次"},{"start":847.68,"end":849.68,"text":"確實中聯所生產出來的那些"},{"start":849.68,"end":851.68,"text":"不管是精油也好食品也好"},{"start":851.68,"end":853.68,"text":"都有一些就有本品比超標"},{"start":853.68,"end":855.68,"text":"可能是原料的問題所以你有沒有發現"},{"start":855.68,"end":857.68,"text":"如果這一次台湯"},{"start":857.68,"end":859.68,"text":"五月中的時候有通報的話"},{"start":859.68,"end":861.68,"text":"實際上大家很可能"},{"start":861.68,"end":863.68,"text":"就根據這個線索去查到了"},{"start":863.68,"end":865.68,"text":"中聯其他的油可能"},{"start":865.68,"end":867.68,"text":"有問題就可以讓大家少吃"},{"start":867.68,"end":869.68,"text":"很多天的本品比啊"},{"start":869.68,"end":871.68,"text":"所以這個問題重點在這裡嘛"},{"start":871.68,"end":873.68,"text":"結果我每次我看到"},{"start":873.68,"end":875.68,"text":"很多委員都在質詢部長"},{"start":875.68,"end":877.68,"text":"或是外服部都在玩文字遊戲"},{"start":877.68,"end":879.68,"text":"都在那邊講說這個到底是"},{"start":879.68,"end":881.68,"text":"原料這不是食品的原料"},{"start":881.68,"end":883.68,"text":"原料是大豆"},{"start":883.68,"end":885.68,"text":"他是脫膠原油全部都在講"},{"start":885.68,"end":887.68,"text":"文字遊戲那你有把人民"},{"start":887.68,"end":889.68,"text":"的健康放在心裡嗎"},{"start":889.68,"end":891.68,"text":"如果你多做一點事情"},{"start":891.68,"end":893.68,"text":"人民就少吃非常"},{"start":893.68,"end":895.68,"text":"多天的本品比耶"},{"start":895.68,"end":897.68,"text":"所以你們到現在還是一直"},{"start":897.68,"end":899.68,"text":"我都不覺得說我們要做更好"},{"start":899.68,"end":901.68,"text":"都還在啊我覺得大家真的"},{"start":901.68,"end":903.68,"text":"我覺得大家真的會看不下去"},{"start":903.68,"end":905.68,"text":"然後更不要說"},{"start":905.68,"end":907.68,"text":"台湯是國營事業"},{"start":907.68,"end":909.68,"text":"國營政府是一體的耶"},{"start":909.68,"end":911.68,"text":"部長請你回應一下"},{"start":911.68,"end":913.68,"text":"八位委員"},{"start":913.68,"end":915.68,"text":"台湯查到311油桶"},{"start":915.68,"end":917.68,"text":"基本上已經"},{"start":917.68,"end":919.68,"text":"簽封起來現在還在中聯"},{"start":919.68,"end":921.68,"text":"那是誰"},{"start":921.68,"end":923.68,"text":"那一批基本上是後話"},{"start":923.68,"end":925.68,"text":"那如果中聯把它賣出去了"},{"start":925.68,"end":927.68,"text":"賣出去的話中聯就"},{"start":927.68,"end":929.68,"text":"很大的問題"},{"start":929.68,"end":931.68,"text":"所以他沒有賣出"},{"start":931.68,"end":933.68,"text":"你現在是用結果論"},{"start":933.68,"end":935.68,"text":"你說因為他沒賣所以沒差"},{"start":935.68,"end":937.68,"text":"但是如果中聯把它賣你剛剛就說有問題"},{"start":937.68,"end":939.68,"text":"所以台湯"},{"start":939.68,"end":941.68,"text":"就是應該通報"},{"start":941.68,"end":943.68,"text":"不管他有沒有賣"},{"start":943.68,"end":945.68,"text":"因為他有可能會賣"},{"start":945.68,"end":947.68,"text":"所以台湯就是應該通報"},{"start":947.68,"end":949.68,"text":"因為上中下游"},{"start":949.68,"end":951.68,"text":"就是要互相簽字"},{"start":951.68,"end":953.68,"text":"因為中聯他"},{"start":953.68,"end":955.68,"text":"被認為他有超標"},{"start":955.68,"end":957.68,"text":"就是有比較高的情況下"},{"start":957.68,"end":959.68,"text":"他有幾種方式"},{"start":959.68,"end":961.68,"text":"第一個他可以不要用使用的"},{"start":961.68,"end":963.68,"text":"第二個他經驗過程可以多幾道"},{"start":963.68,"end":965.68,"text":"那成本差很多"},{"start":965.68,"end":967.68,"text":"所以為什麼台湯公司不願意接受"},{"start":967.68,"end":969.68,"text":"因為他"},{"start":969.68,"end":971.68,"text":"這樣的一個標準"},{"start":971.68,"end":973.68,"text":"他在經驗過程當中要花很多很多的成本進去"},{"start":973.68,"end":975.68,"text":"所以"},{"start":975.68,"end":977.68,"text":"這個我都知道這個不能放我"},{"start":977.68,"end":979.68,"text":"我覺得不要讓他回去你回答別人都這樣"},{"start":979.68,"end":981.68,"text":"但我覺得關鍵是你有沒有發現"},{"start":981.68,"end":983.68,"text":"他台湯"},{"start":983.68,"end":985.68,"text":"以前都沒有買過"},{"start":985.68,"end":987.68,"text":"等評比超標這麼高的有"},{"start":987.68,"end":989.68,"text":"剛剛台湯講的嘛"},{"start":989.68,"end":991.68,"text":"然後這一次"},{"start":991.68,"end":993.68,"text":"他買到了"},{"start":993.68,"end":995.68,"text":"他退回去不關我的事了反正我不用就好"},{"start":995.68,"end":997.68,"text":"據收"},{"start":997.68,"end":999.68,"text":"他據收"},{"start":999.68,"end":1001.68,"text":"這就不關我的事了反正我沒用就好"},{"start":1001.68,"end":1003.68,"text":"可是你有沒有發現"},{"start":1003.68,"end":1005.68,"text":"實際上整批不是只有這一桶"},{"start":1005.68,"end":1007.68,"text":"整批"},{"start":1007.68,"end":1009.68,"text":"整批的中聯有一大堆出問題"},{"start":1009.68,"end":1011.68,"text":"所以如果台湯"},{"start":1011.68,"end":1013.68,"text":"如果台湯五月多就有通報的話"},{"start":1013.68,"end":1015.68,"text":"實際上"},{"start":1015.68,"end":1017.68,"text":"搞不好政府就可以去追查"},{"start":1017.68,"end":1019.68,"text":"就可以防止這麼多有問題"},{"start":1019.68,"end":1021.68,"text":"有流入市面讓民眾吃到"},{"start":1021.68,"end":1023.68,"text":"所以你今天"},{"start":1023.68,"end":1025.6799999999998,"text":"一直在講台湯好寶寶白寶寶"},{"start":1025.6799999999998,"end":1027.6799999999998,"text":"台湯就不夠好嘛如果他更好一點的話"},{"start":1027.6799999999998,"end":1029.6799999999998,"text":"他就通報"},{"start":1029.6799999999998,"end":1031.6799999999998,"text":"就可以讓大家不用吃到本便皮"},{"start":1031.6799999999998,"end":1033.6799999999998,"text":"而不是還需要經濟部出來發這種奇怪的文"},{"start":1033.6799999999998,"end":1035.6799999999998,"text":"所以請你們"},{"start":1035.6799999999998,"end":1037.6799999999998,"text":"跟台湯講好不好"},{"start":1037.6799999999998,"end":1039.6799999999998,"text":"這個這一次國營事業做個好寶寶"},{"start":1039.68,"end":1041.68,"text":"幫助大家不要吃到本便皮"},{"start":1041.68,"end":1043.68,"text":"一驗到原料就通報"},{"start":1043.68,"end":1045.68,"text":"就可能就不會有這些問題了"},{"start":1045.68,"end":1047.68,"text":"好不好謝謝部長"},{"start":1047.68,"end":1049.68,"text":"謝謝謝謝"},{"start":1049.68,"end":1051.68,"text":"好謝謝部長謝謝"},{"start":1051.68,"end":1053.68,"text":"原則委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:39:13.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:39:16.360000+08:00","text":"主席好，麻煩先請姜至剛署長。謝謝。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T11:39:16.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:39:18.060000+08:00","text":"請姜署長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:39:24.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:39:24.586667+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:39:24.586667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:39:25.586667+08:00","text":"署長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:39:25.386667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:39:40.208889+08:00","text":"我先跟你確定一件事，因為8月7號那時候就傳出來，您跟石崇良部長已經要請辭，然後行政院的發言人說沒有辦法代為發言，所以大家包括民進黨立委都解讀成你們已經請辭了。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:39:41.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:39:47.920000+08:00","text":"昨天這個議題持續發酵，衛福部也很曖昧的回答：不予回應。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:39:48.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:39:50.138182+08:00","text":"不是說沒有，是不予回應。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:39:50.542222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:39:54.070000+08:00","text":"而行政院的回復是：沒有討論相關議題。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:39:54.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:39:58.097778+08:00","text":"感覺上好像您跟石崇良部長已經請辭。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:39:58.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:00.153333+08:00","text":"我跟你確認一下，您請辭了嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:01.046667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:02.713333+08:00","text":"報告委員，我現在還在這邊上班。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:02.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:05.789091+08:00","text":"你在這邊上班跟你請辭是兩件事情，不要耍嘴皮子。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:05.970909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:06.698182+08:00","text":"你請辭了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:06.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:08.746667+08:00","text":"上班就是持續把還沒有做完的事情……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:08.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:14.737143+08:00","text":"那有沒有請辭嘛，你請辭，有可能還沒批，或者是你請辭，可能被慰留一個禮拜。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:14.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:16.746667+08:00","text":"你有沒有遞出請辭這個動作，有沒有？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:16.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:20.657778+08:00","text":"我想委員心裡面的答案跟我的答案是一樣的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:20.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:22.480000+08:00","text":"我沒有答案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:22.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:24.594286+08:00","text":"那我也沒有答案。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:24.594286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:25.594286+08:00","text":"所以你有沒有動作？","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:25.308571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:26.737143+08:00","text":"不要浪費我的時間，好不好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:26.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:28.698182+08:00","text":"你有沒有請辭那麼難回答喔？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:29.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:31.315000+08:00","text":"你今天請辭也代表是一個負責的表現嘛！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:31.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:37.306667+08:00","text":"我這邊跟委員做進一步說明，我來食藥署有三件重要的事情：第一個，堅持我對於食安的科學治理；第二個……","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:39.154286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:45.240000+08:00","text":"署長，這個是你上任的時候要講的，我現在問你請辭，就這麼簡單，你答不出來！","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:45.240000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:46.240000+08:00","text":"你有沒有請辭？","quality":0},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:45.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:40:54.868571+08:00","text":"我覺得很重要的事情是，我們所有食藥署同仁的尊嚴跟努力，我必須要堅持下去，所以我的堅持還持續在堅持。","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:40:55.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:03.750000+08:00","text":"好啦，署長，我看你回答的這麼困難，我想應該是請辭了，因為我剛剛前面有鋪陳，然後你剛剛意思是說答案跟我一樣，我想你應該請辭，可能不方便……","quality":0.61},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:03.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:04.750000+08:00","text":"你可能答錯了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:07.714286+08:00","text":"那你就是沒請辭，一樣，所以就沒有請辭。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:08.153846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:09.846154+08:00","text":"你沒有請辭，我就不懂為什麼行政院……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:13.200000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員可以住在我心裡面，知道我心裡的想法。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:19.750000+08:00","text":"沒有，因為我說你請辭，你說我答錯，那不就沒請辭嘛，這就是有跟沒有嘛！","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:25.600000+08:00","text":"我覺得大家的中文不用弄到那麼複雜，我說你沒請辭，你說我答錯……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:26.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:32.274286+08:00","text":"其實不需要這麼關心我的去留，最需要關心的是，中聯為什麼現在沒有被強力譴責？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:32.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:34.378182+08:00","text":"我這邊邀請全民一起來譴責中聯。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:34.378182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:35.671111+08:00","text":"我們來譴責中聯，大家一起譴責中聯。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:35.671111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:36.337778+08:00","text":"對，譴責中聯。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:36.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:38.378182+08:00","text":"那請問一下你要不要請辭？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:38.378182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:39.378182+08:00","text":"譴責中聯！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:38.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:42.337778+08:00","text":"不要每一次答不出問題的時候就顧左右而言他，好不好？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:42.337778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:43.337778+08:00","text":"沒有，我們只對……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:42.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:41:49.360000+08:00","text":"真受不了這些官員每次來這邊都在耍嘴皮子，真是受不了，不然就是說謊。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:41:49.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:42:02.620000+08:00","text":"我現在問你，請問上上個禮拜，我在衛環委員會問石崇良部長，我問他說：7月3號討論食品下架會議的時候，中聯的人有沒有從頭到尾待在那邊？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:42:03.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:42:07.720000+08:00","text":"他說沒有，因為他報告完復工的程序之後就離開了。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:42:09.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:42:22.834286+08:00","text":"我問他立刻回答喔，遲疑不到0.0001秒，我當下就相信了，以為中聯的人報告完復工程序就離開，結果沒有想到上個禮拜，其他委員問你的時候，你在現場嘛，7月3號食安會議你在現場，對不對？","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:42:23.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:42:29.394286+08:00","text":"不是7月3號，7月3號是在臺中開的，7月3號臺中開他們的……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:42:29.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:42:31.280000+08:00","text":"7月4號，我說7月4號啦！對！有、有。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:42:31.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:42:35.555000+08:00","text":"拜託主席，可不可以請官員不要在那邊痞子樣，好不好？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:42:35.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:42:47.013333+08:00","text":"我們現在討論是攸關食安的重要議題，連衛福部的食藥署長都在那邊耍痞子，國人都在看，你遇到回答不出來的問題，就只能用耍痞子的方式迴避，這就是官啦！","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:42:47.013333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:42:48.013333+08:00","text":"7月4號你在不在現場？","quality":0},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:42:47.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:42:49.346667+08:00","text":"7月4號我在現場。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:42:51.013333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:42:56.086154+08:00","text":"你在嘛，請問一下中聯的人有報告完復工程序就離開嗎？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:42:56.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:42:57.573333+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:42:58.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:02.017778+08:00","text":"他有沒有聽到你們在討論食品下架標準，有沒有？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:02.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:05.555000+08:00","text":"我們把整體所有內容都已經公開給全國民眾知道了。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:05.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:09.394286+08:00","text":"不是，我問你問題，你回答就好，不要跟我扯別的。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:09.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:13.180000+08:00","text":"中聯的人是不是在現場就直接聽到你們在討論下架標準，有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:13.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:15.430000+08:00","text":"我想我們的討論，跟他在不在現場沒有關係。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:15.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:17.346667+08:00","text":"有沒有在現場？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:17.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:21.394286+08:00","text":"我們持續在討論相關重要的議題，根據歐盟的標準跟韓國的標準持續做相關的討論。","quality":0.314},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:21.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:23.430000+08:00","text":"不要扯別的，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:24.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:33.235556+08:00","text":"報告主席，你可不可以約束一下這個官員，我問他的問題，他一直扯別的，這樣子你給我20分鐘都不夠，大家全部耗在這邊。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:33.235556+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:34.235556+08:00","text":"據實回答，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:34.235556+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:35.235556+08:00","text":"對，我都據實……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:33.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:38.791111+08:00","text":"就照著問題回答，你們在討論下架標準的時候，中聯的人在不在現場？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:39.013333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:39.457778+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:39.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:41.013333+08:00","text":"你回答在或不在！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:41.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:45.480000+08:00","text":"容我說明一下，我們從頭到尾都有在討論。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:45.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:47.430000+08:00","text":"他從頭到尾都在嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:47.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:53.457778+08:00","text":"所以石崇良說謊嘛，一個衛福部長可以在國會殿堂公然說謊喔？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:53.457778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:54.457778+08:00","text":"我想部長是看了會議的資料而產生誤解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:53.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:43:59.280000+08:00","text":"所以石崇良要請辭，我猜可能他是因為說謊辭職啦！","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:43:59.902222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:08.880000+08:00","text":"署長，我現在問你，你後來說7月4號下架標準，20％不用下架是您的決策嘛，你有說過吧？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:08.880000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:09.880000+08:00","text":"我想這是整個專家會議討論的結論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:09.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:11.280000+08:00","text":"你有說過嘛，好啦！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:12.141538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:13.526154+08:00","text":"因為逐字稿我們也都看了。謝謝！","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:13.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:16.346667+08:00","text":"有的專家是講……","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:16.346667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:17.680000+08:00","text":"因為我們都蠻認真在上面的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:17.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:19.457778+08:00","text":"不用耍嘴皮子，好不好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:19.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:21.346667+08:00","text":"真的受不了耶！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:21.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:31.546667+08:00","text":"各位網友、全國民眾，如果你們有在看的話，這就是我們的官，答不出問題的時候就在那邊耍嘴皮子，我在講很嚴肅的食安問題，你在跟我幹嘛，跟我抬槓喔！","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:31.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:32.880000+08:00","text":"誰教你的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:35.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:37.430000+08:00","text":"卓榮泰教你的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:37.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:41.280000+08:00","text":"我在跟你討論食安問題，你在跟我抬槓。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:47.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:44:51.480000+08:00","text":"就定20％，就會低於容許值，對不對？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:44:52.407273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:45:06.680000+08:00","text":"另外E專家說：如果只考慮比例而沒有考慮到劑量的話……因為他還舉了膠囊的例子跟麵的例子，你會用不同的劑量，所使用到的苯駢芘就會不一樣，有吧？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:45:07.987692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:45:09.526154+08:00","text":"會議紀錄有這樣寫吧？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:45:09.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:45:11.280000+08:00","text":"有這樣子的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:45:11.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:45:43.394286+08:00","text":"有這樣子，那我就很好奇，如果我們今天針對食安標準應該採取零容忍的標準，這也是民進黨一直跟大家講的，食安五環、食安零容忍，結果當你召開一個食安會議，有的專家認為20％就可以；有的專家認為這20％沒有考慮到劑量，可能還是有風險，結果署長在拍板定案的時候，忽略了對食安比較重視的專家，反而聽信了對食安比較寬鬆的專家，我不知道為什麼署長對於食安是這樣子的態度？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:45:43.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:45:47.346667+08:00","text":"可否容許我現在給您進一步回答？可以。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:45:48.791111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:11.280000+08:00","text":"苯駢芘為8.1 ppb，按照所謂的暴露限值（margin of exposure，MOE）算起來大於一萬，它是可忽略的，更何況下降到20％，從科學上面是這樣，但是為了安全跟安心，我了解國人對於食品的安心需要我更多的努力、更多的溝通。對嘛！","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:11.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:17.394286+08:00","text":"所以這個過程中，MOE這件事情相當複雜，有機會可以上課，我可以跟大家說明。","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:18.251429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:19.108571+08:00","text":"這個我都聽過啦。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:19.108571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:20.108571+08:00","text":"所以它是可忽略的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:19.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:27.430000+08:00","text":"署長，所以你的意思是，食安專報就是食安專家盍各言爾志，反正你心中有定見，大家演一場戲嘛！","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:27.430000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:28.430000+08:00","text":"不是、不是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:27.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:28.846667+08:00","text":"最後就是你來拍板20％嘛。不是！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:28.846667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:30.080000+08:00","text":"我沒有定見！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:30.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:45.880000+08:00","text":"我現在問你的問題是，那麼多食安專家在討論，你只聽信那些對食安標準比較寬鬆的，而你對食安比較嚴謹的專家就忽略，結果你講的是你自己的看法，代表你自己就有這個定見，20％就是你姜至剛定的嘛！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:46.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:48.589091+08:00","text":"如果是這樣的話，後來何必下架咧？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:48.770909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:51.526154+08:00","text":"總統為什麼在6天後發文說該下架就下架？","quality":1},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:51.902222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:53.457778+08:00","text":"跟我講安全跟安心……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:53.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:53.965714+08:00","text":"所以呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:54.251429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:46:57.526154+08:00","text":"所以是總統沒有聽信你的專業意見，是不是？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:46:57.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:01.346667+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，全世界毒理的專家應該比較偏向MOE大於1萬就忽略的。","quality":0.448},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:01.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:12.680000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我想7月4號專家會議開完之後，剛剛大家也都聽到了，那麼多專家表達意見，署長的意思就是以自己的意見決定20％。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:12.680000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:13.680000+08:00","text":"我沒有，我不敢以我的意見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:13.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:15.537143+08:00","text":"有，你剛剛就是用你自己的意見在講啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"姜署長至剛","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:15.537143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:16.537143+08:00","text":"我們是共同的意見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:15.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:19.537143+08:00","text":"我剛剛問你那麼多專家有不同的意見，為什麼你採用了G專家的意見？","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:19.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:21.546667+08:00","text":"你說沒有，然後講一大堆你自己的意見啊！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:21.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:25.280000+08:00","text":"所以你就是自己判斷20％應該下架。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:25.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:27.346667+08:00","text":"謝謝署長，請回。謝謝。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:27.965714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:28.822857+08:00","text":"我現在請經濟部長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:29.108571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:31.513333+08:00","text":"部長，希望你不要跟署長一樣，好不好？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:31.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:37.480000+08:00","text":"我們就事論事討論問題，那種痞子樣不會加分，不會對民進黨政府加分啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:37.480000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:38.680000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:38.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:45.513333+08:00","text":"部長，我今天早上聽了很多民進黨立委用了各式各樣的比喻，在比喻說台糖到底要不要通報？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:45.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:51.526154+08:00","text":"我其實也是覺得很匪夷所思，有一位立委說：偽鈔要通報、黃金純度不足就不用通報。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:51.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:55.430000+08:00","text":"黃金純度不足是會影響到什麼食安問題嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:55.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:47:59.537143+08:00","text":"還是黃金純度不足，你買了之後會影響到市場秩序的問題嗎？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:47:59.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:48:13.526154+08:00","text":"現在大家在討論為什麼原料要採用高標準，如果驗出苯駢芘超標要通報，就是因為可能會讓人家吃到肚子裡面影響到健康，所以不要再用不倫不類的比喻了。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:48:13.965714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:48:19.526154+08:00","text":"我覺得經濟部……我不知道部長，這個貼文在po出來之前，您有沒有看過？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:48:19.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:48:35.346667+08:00","text":"我們來看一下你的貼文，一開始經濟部為了幫台糖護航說：再次證實，要讓客人安心，從原料到產品，台糖都是用高標準自我檢驗自己的「好寶寶！","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:48:36.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:48:37.180000+08:00","text":"」後來呢？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:48:37.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:48:49.346667+08:00","text":"在下午大概不到一個多小時就把它改了，改成說：再次證實，要讓客人安心，從原料到產品，台糖都是用高標準自我檢驗自己的「乖寶寶！」。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:48:49.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:48:55.513333+08:00","text":"所以大家就開始討論，請問好寶寶跟乖寶寶差別在哪裡？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:48:55.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:01.280000+08:00","text":"部長，我問一下，從好寶寶改成乖寶寶是為了什麼？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:01.280000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:02.280000+08:00","text":"好寶寶是什麼意思？","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:02.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:03.480000+08:00","text":"乖寶寶是什麼意思？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:03.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:05.394286+08:00","text":"就這個個案上面。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:05.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:15.346667+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們知道台糖公司是依法行政，按照相關的規定管理，他們有SOP……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:15.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:17.562353+08:00","text":"不是，我問你為什麼要把好寶寶改成乖寶寶，差別在哪？","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:17.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:21.394286+08:00","text":"就是主管機關的要求，他們通通有達到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:21.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:23.280000+08:00","text":"所以是很好還是乖？乖。很乖？對。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:23.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:25.346667+08:00","text":"那為什麼不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:25.965714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:27.394286+08:00","text":"它也很好，也很乖啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:27.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:31.457778+08:00","text":"對，那為什麼好寶寶要改成乖寶寶？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:31.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:33.513333+08:00","text":"你應該改成好寶寶跟乖寶寶，對不對？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:34.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:41.526154+08:00","text":"乖寶寶，你的意思是主管機關有要求他要做到，所以很乖，但是不夠好，是因為他不夠主動，是不是？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:41.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:45.280000+08:00","text":"我們下次再把它改成好加乖好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:45.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:47.498182+08:00","text":"那你這次改的意思是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:47.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:49:59.526154+08:00","text":"我們想要了解一下經濟部作為一個官，我們行政院下面這麼大的部會，每一個字當然國人都想要知道，到底你遣辭用句的意思是什麼嘛！","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:49:59.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:50:01.430000+08:00","text":"「好」改成「乖」是為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:50:01.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:50:05.861818+08:00","text":"「乖」你剛剛講了啦，「乖」是說主管機關的要求都有做到，那「好」呢？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:50:06.225455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:50:11.346667+08:00","text":"而且你把「好」改成「乖」，代表沒有麼「好」，但是有點「乖」，是這個意思嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:50:11.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:50:13.280000+08:00","text":"重點還是在……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:50:13.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:50:17.394286+08:00","text":"不是重點，因為你們的貼文就是你們的立場嘛！","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:50:17.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:50:27.498182+08:00","text":"今天如果粉專不是經濟部，它是經濟部之友或者是經濟部的什麼，就沒有人會拿來討論。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:50:27.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:50:29.498182+08:00","text":"經濟部就等同你講的啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:50:29.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:50:35.513333+08:00","text":"因為你是部長，經濟部就等同你講的，像總統的臉書大家就認為是總統講的，不會認為是總統的小編講的嘛！","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:50:35.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:50:39.457778+08:00","text":"所以我真的不知道扯這個到底是要幹嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:50:39.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:50:47.513333+08:00","text":"後面我覺得更荒謬，部長也看一下，一開始的時候說食安議題很多人把關，但是通報義務不要無限上綱。","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:50:48.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:50:57.457778+08:00","text":"若餐廳去菜市場買菜，要求採購人員看到所有的爛菜都要通報，這是檢舉達人做的事，不是食品業者的義務。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:50:57.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:51:02.513333+08:00","text":"就是說如果看到爛菜都要檢舉是檢舉達人，不是食品業者。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:51:02.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:51:11.513333+08:00","text":"然後後來又把「檢舉達人」這幾個字改掉了，但是還是一樣，說食品業者、餐廳去買菜，如果看到爛菜是不用通報的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:51:11.861818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:51:17.480000+08:00","text":"你們是不是一開始覺得拿「檢舉達人」比喻不倫不類，後來就把它改掉，是不是？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:51:17.846667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:51:23.430000+08:00","text":"報告委員，剛開始當然是用比喻的方法，希望簡單的讓一般民眾可以了解啦。","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:51:25.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:51:27.280000+08:00","text":"那你幹嘛改？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:51:27.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:51:33.498182+08:00","text":"但是最終還是要回歸法律跟法條上的解釋。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:51:33.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:51:38.880000+08:00","text":"所以你也覺得不妥嘛，你後來講的什麼爛菜，我也覺得不妥啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:51:39.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:51:39.480000+08:00","text":"為什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:51:39.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:51:45.526154+08:00","text":"因為爛菜吃了，不會有我們講的什麼生癌症的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:51:47.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:51:51.584762+08:00","text":"我舉例子就是說，大家不要再用不倫不類的比喻在那邊講了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:51:52.251429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:51:59.480000+08:00","text":"之前食安法其實很重要就是要求業者自主管理，為什麼呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:51:59.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:52:16.108571+08:00","text":"因為每一天那麼多食品業者生產那麼多的油、生產那麼多的食品，如果你要地方政府全部都用普查的方式，防止有癌症的東西出來的話，是不可能的事情，所以用抽查，主要還是要靠業者自主管理，以前的精神是這樣嘛！","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:52:16.251429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:52:19.480000+08:00","text":"因為你不可能全部都抽查，不然就變普查了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:52:19.833846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:52:22.822857+08:00","text":"還有一個重點，就是要靠上、中、下游相互牽制。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:52:23.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:52:28.930000+08:00","text":"譬如說，下游買到上游的東西一驗，發現有問題就馬上通報，互相牽制嘛！","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:52:30.846667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:52:34.101053+08:00","text":"為什麼大家認為台糖沒有通報是一個很大的問題？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:52:34.206316+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:52:40.537143+08:00","text":"我跟部長講，因為你們完全都不了解大家在講什麼，問題是它就是上、中、下游的一環嘛！","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:52:41.108571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:52:51.430000+08:00","text":"它今天有買到不管是脫膠原油或什麼最後不是食品的東西，你驗出苯駢芘超標，實際上如果有通報的話，大家就多一層安心。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:52:51.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:53:07.457778+08:00","text":"而且剛剛我聽到其他委員在質詢台糖的時候，確實證明了一件事情，就是以前買的脫膠原油都沒有苯駢芘超標，但這次買的就有超標，超標了好像七倍還八倍嘛，非常高，這就已經很不尋常了！","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:53:07.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:53:16.555000+08:00","text":"然後事實也證明這一次確實中聯所生產出來的不管是精油也好、食品也好，有一些就有苯駢芘超標，可能是原料的問題。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:53:16.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:53:24.770909+08:00","text":"所以你有沒有發現，如果這一次台糖5月中的時候有通報的話，實際上大家很可能就根據這個線索。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:53:25.134545+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:53:31.430000+08:00","text":"查到中聯其他的油可能有問題，就可以讓大家少吃很多天的苯駢芘啊！","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:53:31.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:53:33.513333+08:00","text":"所以問題的重點在這裡嘛！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:53:33.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:53:41.880000+08:00","text":"結果我每次看到很多委員質詢部長或者是衛福部，都在玩文字遊戲，都在邊講：哎唷，這個到底是不是算原料？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:53:42.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:53:46.589091+08:00","text":"這不是食品的原料，原料是大豆，它是脫膠原油。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:53:46.770909+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:53:51.430000+08:00","text":"全部都在講文字遊戲，你有把人民的健康放在心裡嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:53:51.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:53:56.251429+08:00","text":"如果你多做一點事情，人民就少吃非常多天的苯駢芘！","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:53:58.043636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:05.513333+08:00","text":"你們到現在還是一直拗，都不覺得你們要做更好、你們要怎麼樣、怎麼樣，都還在拗，我覺得大家真的會看不下去！","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:05.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:11.235556+08:00","text":"然後更不要說台糖是國營事業，國營、政府是一體的。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:11.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:13.430000+08:00","text":"部長簡單回應一下吧。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:14.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:24.791111+08:00","text":"報告委員，台糖查到311油桶，基本上已經鉛封起來，現在還在中聯，所以那一批基本上……","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:25.013333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:25.457778+08:00","text":"那個是後話嘛！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:25.861818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:27.498182+08:00","text":"如果中聯把它賣出去了呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:27.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:31.965714+08:00","text":"賣出去的話，中聯就有很大的問題。對啊！所以……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:32.251429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:33.394286+08:00","text":"他目前為止沒有賣出去。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之：你現在是用結果論嘛！你說","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:36.043636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:37.498182+08:00","text":"哎呀，因為他沒賣所以沒差。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之：你現在是用結果論嘛！你說","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:37.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:39.562353+08:00","text":"但是如果中聯把它賣了，你剛剛就說有問題……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:39.562353+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:40.562353+08:00","text":"不是，因為……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:39.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:43.346667+08:00","text":"所以台糖就是應該通報嘛！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:43.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:49.480000+08:00","text":"不管他有沒有賣，因為他有可能會賣，所以台糖就是應該通報……","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:49.480000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:50.480000+08:00","text":"不是，因為中聯……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:49.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:52.822857+08:00","text":"你聽我講，因為上、中、下游就是要互相牽制。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:52.822857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:54:53.822857+08:00","text":"是，你借我一分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:54:53.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:09.537143+08:00","text":"因為中聯被認為它有比較高的情況下，他有幾種方式：第一個，他可以不要用食用的；第二個，他精煉的過程可以多幾道，那成本差很多，所以為什麼台糖公司不願意接受？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:09.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:16.680000+08:00","text":"因為這樣的一個標準，他在精煉過程當中要花很多很多成本進去。所以……","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:17.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:18.513333+08:00","text":"這個我都知道！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:20.032941+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:21.562353+08:00","text":"部長，不要再回應，你回答別人也都這樣說。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:21.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:29.280000+08:00","text":"但是我覺得關鍵是，你有沒有發現台糖以前都沒有買過苯駢芘超標這麼高的油，對不對？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:29.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:31.394286+08:00","text":"剛剛台糖講的嘛，對吧？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:32.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:37.562353+08:00","text":"這一次他買到了，他退回去了，覺得不關我的事了，反正我不用就好。可是……","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:37.562353+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:39.680000+08:00","text":"不是退回，拒收。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:39.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:42.480000+08:00","text":"他拒收，這就不關我的事啦！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:42.746667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:43.546667+08:00","text":"反正我沒用就好啦！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:43.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:47.513333+08:00","text":"可是你有沒有發現，實際上整批，不是只有這一桶喔！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:47.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:51.513333+08:00","text":"整批中聯的油一大堆都出問題喔！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:51.513333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:55:52.513333+08:00","text":"所以中聯是不良企業……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:55:51.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:56:03.480000+08:00","text":"所以如果台糖5月多就有通報的話，搞不好就讓政府可以去追查，就可以防止這麼多有問題的油流入市面，讓民眾吃到嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:56:04.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:56:08.430000+08:00","text":"你今天一直在講台糖好寶寶、乖寶寶，台糖就不夠好嘛！","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:56:08.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:56:13.064615+08:00","text":"如果他更好一點的話，他就通報，就可以讓大家不用吃到苯駢芘嘛！","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:56:13.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:56:15.568889+08:00","text":"而不是還需要經濟部出來發這種奇怪的文！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:56:15.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:56:19.394286+08:00","text":"所以請你們跟台糖講，好不好？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:56:20.394286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:56:28.251429+08:00","text":"自己是國營事業，做個好寶寶，幫助大家不要吃到苯駢芘，一驗到原料就通報，可能就不會有這些問題啦，好不好？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2026-08-10T11:56:28.537143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:56:30.180000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T11:56:30.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-10T11:56:35.180000+08:00","text":"謝謝部長，謝謝葉元之委員。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T11:56:35.680000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:56:42.537143+08:00","text":"登記發言的委員除不在場外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T11:56:42.837143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:56:54.265714+08:00","text":"委員徐欣瑩、陳亭妃、邱議瑩、傅崐萁、陳超明、鄭正鈐、張嘉郡、賴瑞隆所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-10T11:56:54.565714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-10T11:57:06.280000+08:00","text":"書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位一週內以書面答復，並副知本會，委員另要求期限者，從其所定。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}