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內席委員鄭振全委員等27人 內席人員11月26日運動部部長李陽率同有關人員 11月27日教育部部長鄭英耀率同有關人員 法務部參事汪蘭君 主席劉昭吉委員蘇斌11月26日報告事項一 宣讀上次會議事錄決定 議事錄確定"},{"start":1463.055,"end":1486.272,"text":"二 運動部部長李楊列席報告業務概況並被質詢本日議程有委員萬美玲等十九人提出質詢均經運動部部長李楊及相關人員及其答覆說明另有委員林倩琦 蘇清泉 黃婕 陳培宇 陳靜薇提出書面質詢決定一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入紀錄並刊登公報"},{"start":1487.332,"end":1507.601,"text":"3.對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料後為其答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆11月27日討論事項1.繼續審查委員範園等16人拟據學校公參法草案案等23案2.審查委員葛如軍等17人拟據學校公參法草案案等12案決議"},{"start":1510.851,"end":1532.194,"text":"一對委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆二學校公參法相關草案部分審查完略未及審查部分令定期繼續審查審查結果如下一法案名稱趙委員柯志恩等21人及委員陳佩玉等26人提案通過"},{"start":1532.955,"end":1547.616,"text":"二 各張章名均不予採納三 第二條修正如下第二條本條例所稱主管機關在中央為教育部在直轄市為直轄市政府在縣市為縣市政府以下簡稱地方主管機關"},{"start":1548.797,"end":1570.187,"text":"主管機關掌理學校午餐與飲食教育規劃推動及監督等事項本條例所定事項涉及中央各目的事業主管機關執掌者由中央各目的事業主管機關辦理其權責劃分如下一衛生福利主管機關學校午餐營養與均衡飲食廚房與校園食品安全"},{"start":1571.347,"end":1579.917,"text":"衛生安全規劃推動及監督事項二 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大家好启皇今天应邀列席贵委员会就运动部在运动平权上的推动与精进做专题报告再请委员多多指导民主社会中运动平权不只是一个理念而是国家的责任"},{"start":1708.288,"end":1728.68,"text":"我們依循國際人權的精神承諾每一位國民不論在性別、年齡、身心狀況與文化背景都能夠自由、安全、平等地參與運動然而我們台灣目前仍面臨著多項的挑戰"},{"start":1730.222,"end":1744.432,"text":"而少运动伤害的风险身心障碍者与原住民族在资讯与场域上的落差与可进性不足以及女性在运动产业与决策圈的机会有限"},{"start":1746.584,"end":1763.914,"text":"都是我們目前面臨到的挑戰也正因為如此運動部將平權置於我們部工作的核心的位置期盼讓每一個人都站在公平的起點找到屬於自己的運動方式與生活品質"},{"start":1766.192,"end":1787.671,"text":"就目前的状况在我们就目前的平前状况我们有五个面向还非常的不足我们可以清楚的看见差距在儿少运动安全上面虽然已经建立了部分的教练智能标准指引以及负荷监测但我们知道距离安全面的保障仍有不足"},{"start":1788.655,"end":1811.072,"text":"身心障碍者方面即使完成了前期的座谈会系统的规划并预计发布指南友善的环境仍未到位性别平权上女性主管的比例虽然在本部还不错但是也提供了女性相关的支持可是仍然无法满足需求"},{"start":1812.119,"end":1838.584,"text":"弱势与第七的差异虽然我们做了661件设施并补助偏乡与旅岛但资源落差依然明显原住民族方面即便增强了心理资源与教练的培育完整的原住民族运动的支持网络仍需要多多的努力以上是我们面临到的挑战接下来我们应该着重在未来的工作重点"},{"start":1839.344,"end":1866.482,"text":"首先儿少运动的安全仍是我们首要的工作我们将持续推动儿少教练智能课程让教练确实的具备儿少保护心理发展以及法规等必要的能力并持续增加儿少训练指引以科学的方法降低过度训练的风险同时运动科学的资源会持续的推展到基层"},{"start":1867.242,"end":1891.338,"text":"让孩子在安全、适性、可静的环境中参与运动。在身心障碍者运动平权方面,明年将启动全国适应运动调查与资讯化作为后续政策制定的基础,提供一站式的服务,让身障的朋友看得到、进得去、用得好。"},{"start":1892.339,"end":1913.095,"text":"在推动适应运动双轴策略上面,包括持续补助地方政府办理适应运动增能的课程,采购运动辅具,建立跨年龄、跨障别的适应运动网络,使身上者在训练、在生活、在运动竞技训练当中得到一致的支持。"},{"start":1914.298,"end":1928.152,"text":"在性別平權方面從三個層面我們會持續的來深化我們將研議特定運動團體禮監事的三分之一性別的原則透過補助與獎勵引導運動團體增加女性參與決策的機會"},{"start":1933.718,"end":1957.888,"text":"推动运动场域完整的性别友善附属设施支持女性运动健康研究计划提升女性在运动科研的能量在运动方面我们会持续的强化女子赛事职业运动的推动以及基层的推广打造更完善的女性运动支持体系"},{"start":1959.108,"end":1986.909,"text":"在縮小地區差異方面我們將持續的補助地方政府建構多元友善的運動場域同時推動一致的規劃手冊與設計指引希望透過這樣子的方法能夠提升各縣市的規劃與執行能力接著我們會強化基層運科的資源策略讓偏鄉以及離島的隊伍也能夠取得運科的資源"},{"start":1987.89,"end":2010.467,"text":"我们也透过多项专业的研习希望能够充实地方的专业人力除此之外我们更希望透过科技的导入持续推动引发族与多元族群的运动课程让全国民众不论居住地区都能享有安全而有品质的运动服务"},{"start":2011.806,"end":2037.689,"text":"在原住民族平权方面在教练与人才培育上面我们将持续办理原住民族教练增能课程把文化、运动与部落的元素结合培养更具原乡视角的教练在支持体系上面我们会持续的推动原乡棒球心理注点计划扩大巡回心理教育及线上的教材"},{"start":2038.51,"end":2065.496,"text":"协助选手在地取得心理与运动的支持在场域与活动推动上面运动部将协助地方建置合适原住民族的运动空间并提升部落活动的可进性让运动成为促进健康凝聚部落以及延续文化的重要的力量先生们 女士们"},{"start":2066.857,"end":2081.85,"text":"推動運動平權是一場需要耐心、毅力與信念的長期工程雖然我們看到改變正在發生我們仍然希望孩子在更安全的環境裡奔跑"},{"start":2082.831,"end":2097.65,"text":"身障朋友們在無障礙的場域當中進出場館女性在運動產業與團體決策中扮演重要的角色援助民族在社區場域找回文化與運動的連結"},{"start":2100.233,"end":2127.892,"text":"運動部承諾會持續地把平權從理念落實到制度讓每一位國民都能夠因為運動而更健康因為平權而感到被支持因為大家的努力而感到更加的驕傲我再強調一次我們運動部的立場運動平權不是讓某一群人得到更多我們是希望讓所有的人都不被排斥以上報告 謝謝"},{"start":2134.159,"end":2157.624,"text":"謝謝黃次長口頭報告我們現場人數已達一決人數我們先跟各位委員確認一下上次的會議議事錄有無錯誤或疑惑之處沒有 那我們議事錄確定現在進行詢答每位出席委員質詢時間6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘發言登記截止時間為上午10時30分"},{"start":2163.629,"end":2182.382,"text":"委員如果有臨時提案請於上午10時30分前提出並與本會委員換美玲吳佩義委員質詢結束後即進行處理處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員就不在場原理不予處理首先請發言登記第一位柯志恩委員質詢是我們謝謝召委我們是不是請黃次長請黃次長"},{"start":2196.747,"end":2216.507,"text":"喂 你好好 次長好多年來我國這個運動平權的公約可以說是千好千滿法律條文也不斷地修正那我們就來檢視一下我們台灣到底有沒有做到平權你看2017年這沒有話 對不對來 我們前面一下我們還是掃一下2017年我們有運動白皮書我們2020年我們就賀爾新基的女性運動宣言"},{"start":2218.309,"end":2236.063,"text":"2024年本席也提出了這個國體法第五條我們要求就這個平等這沒有問題但是實際的狀況是怎麼樣我們是一起來解釋一下啊那次長我們可以看一下你看我們在東京奧運51位教練當中只有6位女教練巴黎奧運裡面呢也是5位"},{"start":2236.343,"end":2265.122,"text":"大概都是占一成多而已然后呢在2023年的这个亚奥运的这个A级教练证当中呢说实在的女性取得大概也是二成六然后呢我们奥运的这个干部组成说实在的从主席副主席执行委员共25个人但是执行委员只有两位所以呢占比连一成都不到所以次长你怎么来看待这样的一个数据这的确是一个看起来数字不是很好的一个状况"},{"start":2266.192,"end":2293.254,"text":"但是我们知道以中华奥会来讲我理解前一阵子他们已经完成了执行委员的改选他们的女性的比例应该有达到三分之一我个人觉得你政府口口声声说你要一个运动平权但是发生不平的一些事情之后我们还是来看看到底还有哪一些的事件你看女性选手这个都是我们很看到的2022年我们的女足国家队蔡明荣她没有当选"},{"start":2293.914,"end":2309.125,"text":"但是呢你看他没有当选会员代表还在会中高喊你有本事选上了如果全部给你们当都没关系了有必要讲成这个样子吗2024琼斯贝勒篮球这个协会里面的女男每个人出赛费是3000"},{"start":2310.006,"end":2327.486,"text":"男男是五千同工不同酬2024呢我想次长也知道足协逼迫这个女足国家队签订的不平等的一个合约嘛那就里面都是禁止的事项然后呢还说也不分钱给选手还威胁说不签约以后就没有办法有球体"},{"start":2328.307,"end":2348.67,"text":"那2025了这个大家都很清楚了也是国家认为真的是非常丢脸的一件事情纽西兰跟我们的台湾女足进行邀请赛的时候因为这个场地的关系让我们没有办法在这个非正式场都是在非正式场地在排练最后因为正式场地没有办法让出来取消都是女性发生的事情"},{"start":2349.557,"end":2371.414,"text":"怎么办市长这样我们呢告诉我们我们真的有做好做满吗我不能够说我们已经做好做满了我们的确还有非常大的空间去改善是但是每次发生这些事情的时候呢很多时候对于你们大家都只是出来道歉然后说会改正然后对于很多单项协会的考评发生这些事情但是呢说实在的也还是补助造给"},{"start":2371.934,"end":2386.933,"text":"还是补助造给也没有特别说因为这样子然后就有受到任何一点的影响所以呢你说怎么达到这个运动平权更不要说我们来看一下嘛总统上一次举办的这个三对三的这个篮球赛也有很多不平等的事情啊"},{"start":2387.614,"end":2390.816,"text":"我想就有很多人协会跟我们反映在转播上面"},{"start":2418.116,"end":2418.597,"text":"次長你知道這個狀況嗎"},{"start":2420.154,"end":2449.193,"text":"這一個單獨這個比賽我不知道這個狀況但是我可以跟委員承諾的是我們部成立以來部長對於這件平權的事情極端的重視我們會從內部的控制當中逐步的去我只告訴你說藍框下面有任何保護措施給我們女性而且次長你現在已經擔任我們第一屆的性平這個專案小組的召集人我想我們要期待由你主導的這樣子的一個性平的這樣子的委員會怎麼樣能夠讓它落實這是我們要看到的好不好給你更多的一個期許"},{"start":2450.174,"end":2468.262,"text":"然后接下来我们来看一下运科计划当中这个应该你非常的清楚当初我们就曾经提到的这运科支援的计划里面呢其实有发生了一些的问题然后呢就有提到的可能也有假训练之民行人体实验之实那我想请问一下"},{"start":2468.982,"end":2485.269,"text":"在9月的時候呢你們成立專案小組全面清查然後你們認為說的確在送IRB這件事情上面體育組在督導上面是有一些的缺失的有沒有人因此受到懲處在你們體育署裡面目前為止還沒有為什麼跟你們沒關嗎"},{"start":2486.613,"end":2511.488,"text":"是这样子的因为我们当时在推动这个运科资源基层的事情其实是希望运科的能量能够到基层去我们延续了过去的做法是 但是有发生过这件事情虽然我们有很多我还是认为你们还是监察院调查是一回事但是你们的行政调查你们也需要因为运动部9月的时候才自请送监察院的调查目前的结果是怎么样还在调查中"},{"start":2512.435,"end":2539.353,"text":"你们这样子调查的真的是你知道有很多的案件只要是跟一些比较敏感有关他们是其实非常的快的然后不解的是监察院还没有调查完毕运动部却在11月12日的时候跨部会的专案小组当中邀请国体大寒转学校请计划主持人立即销毁参与人的个资体检统计数据这在消灭证据吗如果监察院需要补全证据这怎么办"},{"start":2539.973,"end":2561.716,"text":"為什麼要發函做這樣的事情不是要消滅證據如果當時的採集收集資料不夠前面的步驟不完善我們要求他們摧毀掉所有的個資因為那是那如果這些牽涉到他們未來調查的這個細項呢你現在馬上就發函難免會讓人家覺得有這樣的一個部分還有一個可能是次長你也很熟的"},{"start":2562.136,"end":2582.558,"text":"可能不是只有运科支援计划设计人体还有原住民选材专案这是过去没有被抓没有被关注到的所以说次长培育优秀原住民学校的运动人才执行计划然后呢要来运动医学检测实际计划你是计划主持人没错吧是的就了解这个计划同样"},{"start":2583.74,"end":2605.988,"text":"同样是在没有相关知情同意书下面也对选手做抽血检测的情况这你了解吗我了解因为当时是帮他们做身体检查我们一律由医院来执行我们希望运动员参与运动之前身体是可以被训练是这样把这些相关资料给本席一下因为它会不会牵涉到未来的研究发表会不会有未来的研究发表"},{"start":2606.368,"end":2627.89,"text":"目前為止從來沒有發表這些數字都不會發表對不對因為你發表的話你勢必要牽涉到IRB的這樣的檢驗你有沒有考慮過連即使是在做這樣的事情也要做也要通過IRB的檢驗有沒有考慮過因為發生這麼多的事情根據我們跟衛福部的溝通這種類似用已知的方法去了解選手狀況的是不需要送IRB的但是"},{"start":2628.51,"end":2657.81,"text":"相关的部分因为次长你牵涉在这个部分也有人对这样子一个整个的知情同意书的状况之下是有疑虑的所以请你把相关证件全部送给本席可以吗可以既然有人有提出因为我们不想再发生女族的事件而且原住民选材的计划是过去没有人特别提出来现在既然有人来跟本席的做这样的一个澄清我想我是必要做充分的一个理解好接下来我们再来看一下有关于禁药的问题"},{"start":2658.831,"end":2673.588,"text":"大家知道吧这个我们的这个奥运的这个巴黎奥运的定向飞宝铜牌李孟远因为呢使用了这个有静药成分的眼药水所以他被禁赛还被禁赛到明年1月7号"},{"start":2674.349,"end":2697.939,"text":"而且这已经不是第一次有国手因为误用这个禁药然后得到他们的存的还有我们的网球国手曹佳怡也因为误食了这个药进城的感冒药也被禁制到2月28怎么解决这么多的选手因为我们这样子的督导步骤让他们的这个权益受到损失运动部怎么来解决这个问题是不是有必要要把它变成法治化这么多人都已经这么提到了"},{"start":2699.025,"end":2717.245,"text":"再多的法治化如果选手本身不为自己的行为负责因为在WADA的认知当中他是采取严格责任他家李孟远是由医护人员给他提供抹他的眼药水导致于他这样的一个问题他是由护理人员提供的不是他个人"},{"start":2718.306,"end":2742.656,"text":"那你有没有了解护理人员给药的一个行为是不是经过医嘱的一个确认这个你是不是要回去了解一下如果不是这个样子的话不会今天放到这个地方来做质询每个人都要为自己的行为负责但是如果说是其他的因素呢这怎么样来而且有人提到说有关静药的概念当中的话我还是认为这个部分里面来我们往下看运动员跟我们反映很多时候呢这样的一个基金会的演"},{"start":2743.536,"end":2760.394,"text":"讲习的品质不佳上课时候讲的内容很多的错误包括药品的成分还有呢线上的测验平台很形式化这都是选手来跟我们反映的事实上你不能只是用一个运动员需要为自己来负责来带过这都是一员亲身的一个经验可不可以彻底去了解"},{"start":2760.714,"end":2786.843,"text":"教育的部分我们一定会加强我们的督导的力度的确教育是最重要的这个部分的平台已经太多事情还是强调一句话不要因为这些的措施然后让我们的运动员损失了他们上场为国家这个比赛的一个机会这是我们不断的强调的很多内部有很多问题已经讲了非常多的请市长充分去了解最后一分钟我还是要问一下运动教练的部分防"},{"start":2787.463,"end":2809.182,"text":"这个我们的这个全动数的署长房瑞文署长有没有在署长我还是要问这也是属于竞技师的问题你现在已经高升了但是我还是要跟你要一个东西去年9月18号我们开了公听会你告诉我一个月内之内要来对于运动教练的考核办法要来给我们提出了一个部分今晚你对"},{"start":2810.58,"end":2828.265,"text":"去年9月18號的時候我們要開個公聽會全部人曾志強都在張亮也都在大家都在你告訴我一個月之內對於考核辦法我們對於一年一小考三年一大考每個都有意見那現在你們的考核的增進標準在哪裡還是你忘記你已經講過這句話"},{"start":2830.086,"end":2847.371,"text":"好了我不管你们怎么样我只把历史弄出来你们必须给我考核的办法还有最后呢你看看上次我也开了一个公听会然后呢就有一个明明带队成绩很好的像全国junior high这个HBL的史无前例破了五连霸的冠军教练被评为一等哎"},{"start":2848.351,"end":2877.128,"text":"被评为一等再怎么努力都没有用就是你们制度出了一些的问题让这些运动教练真的是已经为国被帮这些学生选手带来这么好的成绩就回到学校去之后呢因为制度不佳然后呢常常被迫在这边做这样的一个考核的机制这样有哪个办法留住体育人才我已经讲了非常多次而且你们承诺我要给我一个所谓的精进的计划考核的标准要重新设定到目前为止都没看见你们这次承诺什么时候给我最后来 赵伟对不起"},{"start":2878.209,"end":2889.935,"text":"什麼時候 9月18號告訴我10月18號可以那現在已經是 給人家廣告啊12月那時候應該是說邀請各縣市政府針對這一題來討論好 沒問題 那你們開了幾場開了幾場 好啦各縣市政府讓你們開了幾場"},{"start":2896.496,"end":2924.247,"text":"好啦不管啦12月今天12月3號什麼時候給我去年9月18號到今年已經一年多了你們也跟各縣市的專業教練已經講了差不多了請告訴我把這些跟專業教練的部分告訴我最後告訴我什麼時候把上次開會的一個會議紀錄的資料再整理一下給委員不是你的考核你們不是要不是要把考核的辦法做一個整體的一個一個檢討嗎那個考核有沒有因此就津津跟過去不一樣什麼時候可以給我"},{"start":2930.341,"end":2937.83,"text":"一個月好 明年1月4號再沒有的話真的是好很好我們就好好來審預算謝謝柯先生委員質詢 官員請回座接下來請謝龍介委員質詢"},{"start":2966.907,"end":2969.87,"text":"主席我請出座請皇室長出座你好委員你好今天報告是不是演繹到你們部長在上次來本會"},{"start":2988.173,"end":3007.083,"text":"報告裡面第五點說要追究兵權共用是英雄及德國的解答是嗎?是英雄是嗎?是你的報告跟他同期時期他說第五點裡面的兵權他有說到四大點"},{"start":3014.738,"end":3042.124,"text":"要共情啊你跟他一起補的努力在你要共勇啊應責優先的環境啊第三要共贏啊建立專民共享的運動文化啊就是要共好啊聽台灣兩手有的族群在一起共情寫的都很浪漫你都寫得很漂亮"},{"start":3045.049,"end":3060.697,"text":"有辦法去實行嗎?你的武昌今年比今年加幾億?你知不知道?加70幾億差不多大家也很謹謹地給你看都想要把你們拖這麼久這個要錢,那個要錢我請教你,在國防都看到運動部來的時候你們發電的重點是什麼?"},{"start":3075.97,"end":3087.642,"text":"你要有一個重點的發展 你說大家這樣成立這個運動不意義國家不可能每一項運動都做發展啦因為我們的經濟 我們的武神也沒辦法做到那個程度嘛 是你們的重點是什麼 你們告訴我有沒有救呢"},{"start":3098.559,"end":3124.781,"text":"我們的重點在於全民運動我們的理念是希望更多人去參與因為運動而更健康這是第一個理念我們也希望產業化因為有好的產業發展才會有更多人願意投入我特別針對整個特殊的單行因為一二十年來我們的觀察特地我們重點和栽培和投資的這種單行"},{"start":3129.329,"end":3153.411,"text":"这个里面需要做一点点调整过去我们运动的发展多数是以夺牌为主要的目的我们希望稍微做一点点转变运动是让人健康运动是让人快乐因此我们未来会往全民运动来走因为很多人出来运动主人在冰箱的运动不是竞技的运动里面可以发现到很好的运动选手是"},{"start":3154.312,"end":3171.367,"text":"所以我第一次跟你說,你那套過的科技套過現在的AI、新科技看到這些自然運動的人,其實他們是很有潛在的力量可以讓我們發展成為、培養成為一個優秀的選手不然都要金雙添花"},{"start":3179.093,"end":3198.71,"text":"人家去奧林匹克拿冠軍回來 大家去拍照普通時候你不需要幫忙尤其像這個 正常的運動 到這個 宣傳的運動我看你如果不可以在中時一定會很中時 你怎麼有中時你看 台北最初有一個叫做臨翌宿的 你知道嗎我不知道那個遊營選手"},{"start":3206.68,"end":3223.409,"text":"他有腳沒手 出池就沒手他的視力現在在我們阿嬌差不多第四名結果我們的檔行差不多說如果要派對處理就要你視力在阿嬌三名來所以執行他都要自己去募款 要跟擔幫樓募款他沒辦法在地公費的幫助啊這種選手 這是一個很劣質的"},{"start":3235.879,"end":3248.547,"text":"是故事嘛 總統也把...總統府把頒獎就頒兩次了嘛我跟吳元報告這位選手已經是在我們裡面培養的選手了培養了一位高情侶啊我現在跟你說的就是說你跟我說成這樣 好啊 我們都給他培養了他一位高情侶啊"},{"start":3263.913,"end":3290.936,"text":"當然提供教練費用跟那個我和你討論當中實在是個案實在是沒意思啦我意思是說他參他在阿州第四名的 十六啦差三名的 差不多你沒第四名要怎麼有冠軍的要比較有金牌的你沒給他一個機會沒給他特殊 想說這個你就要"},{"start":3292.661,"end":3320.092,"text":"臨岸看台你跟南韓協會之間有時候要構思這個規程就會有意思是陷了沒錯你的看法是要怎麼我們制定一個辦法只能有一個辦法可是往往會有一些個案你說要變款我跟一個案件請教你你知不知道台南市並沒有一個標準的比賽遊營地你知不知道我不知道你不知道"},{"start":3321.332,"end":3331.737,"text":"那你讓台南市去羈絆轉中文的時候,你這個先生把你請出說要來羈絆轉中文,你給他問你什麼中文,你就沒有標準的中文,就變成愛去歌詠比賽。台南市羈絆轉中文,結果由他們愛去歌詠比賽。"},{"start":3341.038,"end":3351.186,"text":"我們會針對全國的運動設施做一個盤整並不是每一個縣市都一定要有國際級的比賽設施因為我們台灣受不了這個樣子不是國際級的比賽地喔他參加50公尺的標準地就沒有了"},{"start":3359.466,"end":3379.751,"text":"你現在讓他 你准他承辦嘛 譬如說台東今天來給你承辦 你准他承辦總是你各單行的比賽的頂點 要不是國際叫合法專中文的標準是不是這樣這我了解 這我了解他都沒有 你是不是要輔導他 要幫忙他 不然你就跟他說你不要人家辦的"},{"start":3385.849,"end":3407.756,"text":"讓別人搬 你要有標準的不然我們選擇大家年輕兩年 去旁邊的時候這事情不一定的這種需要大投資的國際型的設施我們都是希望用區域的方式來辦理這個不需要大投資 我跟你說這是不需要大投資你如果說要大投資利用區域甚至利用全台灣也沒關係"},{"start":3409.556,"end":3435.081,"text":"我都可以同意啊 對不對問題不是這樣 你們不要只看大不看小啦不會的東西就是要專門心思啦我所謂的 你說的說要平衡嘛平衡包括戰爭 包括南陸 包括挪威都要平衡嘛那麼中台的規範 中台的使用譬如說這個戰爭運動啦"},{"start":3437.864,"end":3456.294,"text":"你們所有的中台設計跟中台的規範在演繹的時候你們有請殊勇者 真正的尊重的運動員來演繹嗎我必須要承認 目前還沒有到位這是我們要繼續努力的地方這就是說 有人說我們用我們正常人你如果卡上手我們在看 那才會有問題財運就感覺這一步就很困難了沒錯 沒錯"},{"start":3460.376,"end":3474.708,"text":"所以這個平衡要不斷落實要落實的過程中本身跟你建議就是說請董事他們很勇敢願意走出來又參與運動 又展現主義這對我們來說因為我們知道他要贊助不是他願意的他天生他無奈啊他出事就這樣啊然後他還可以結構 奮鬥 劣質"},{"start":3488.727,"end":3499.371,"text":"這坦白說,對於我們每一個人都是很高的個數嘛你不讓他們參與,再讓我們開那些錢設計出來當地,運氣到現場,一生就漏氣了比比皆是,太多了那來,既然你省立運動部,要針對這個平衡來改善給他們多錢,我是認為這是一個有心跟沒心"},{"start":3514.547,"end":3542.177,"text":"我會努力去做努力去做做好嗎努力做做好嗎盡我的全力用我的生命來跟你換這不是很困難委員我跟您保證這不是說有什麼可靠機我們不可靠機我們會盡我們的全力去做這只要有心就做得到我也認同這樣所以我都會用心去把它做你有心嗎我一定有這樣的心情去做這樣謝謝你謝謝委員"},{"start":3545.191,"end":3570.219,"text":"謝謝信仰界委員質詢 官員請回座接下來請劉書斌召委質詢好有請黃次長 請黃次長"},{"start":3577.391,"end":3602.491,"text":"好 次長好委員早安早喔那今天我們非常感謝昭緯他提供的這個題目運動平權我們也知道說2017年的時候運動平權的白皮書已經公報了那今天就是來檢視這樣的成果那我們看到的是運動部成立之後對運動平權的這個落實其實它不只是一個制度還包括是觀念跟教育跟文化對不對"},{"start":3603.491,"end":3615.199,"text":"當然啦 這邊部分 尤其是教育可能要跟教育部的合作啦那預算資源的投入 請問運動部有沒有這邊有一個大項 針對這邊就是做一個整合性的一個預算的一個統計一下"},{"start":3617.776,"end":3632.968,"text":"有沒有目前沒有專門針對去分辨這一筆預算或者整筆預算當中有多少的百分比是直接給女性我們有一些專案是在給比如說女性的研究 科學研究女性的研究議題這個是有的"},{"start":3633.348,"end":3654.061,"text":"但是就我們補助一些計畫裡面說我們補助某一個協會它裡面有多少的錢是用在女性上面目前沒有好 謝謝市長我覺得這邊就是等一下我到最後的時候可能要做一個結論再說對於運動平權這部分因為運動部其實變成一個部了就是特別要針對以後我建議是每年要做一個運動平權的出版這樣一個報告書給委員會"},{"start":3655.982,"end":3682.284,"text":"因為我們才可以知道因為你剛所說指到性別其實還不只包括我等一下看到的部分有包括的是這邊的身障還有兒少跟高齡等等的離島這部分我覺得如果你把這地方拿出來的話就可以知道是說我們都可以跟國際間的這樣的一個簽的這些條約都有相匹敏對不對這非常重要另外我覺得更重要的是說因為有些如果是不適當的對待的話都還有一些申訴制度這是我等一下要去問的問題"},{"start":3683.405,"end":3712.551,"text":"那有些生殖住的包括像性這個性騷擾等等的我們就看到歧視的問題好那我們繼續往下看剛剛我想問到就是次長啊就是在運動平權當中啊因為你也知道連兒少跟高齡啊目前的確是很大的差異性那你們有沒有針對包括像兒少跟高齡甚至一般整個身障我們先問到這兩個部分好了有沒有做在運動的分齡的運動場的設施那甚至你們分了多少級那有沒有什麼數目"},{"start":3713.451,"end":3737.584,"text":"這個部分請說目前的運動場的分齡目前是沒有的因為過去基本上都是以運動中心的概念在建構一般人的運動只是可以從部分的空間特別去設計給兒少或高齡者目前在身障這一塊它一般是用通用設計的概念去處理可是對於特定的運動設備給身障人來說目前還是不足的"},{"start":3738.878,"end":3754.211,"text":"對 這就是很不足的地方我們甚至還知道上個禮拜的時候才知道說東京的有一個是聽奧嘛是 是聽奧那我們現在知道是生長者我剛才查了一下資料目前全台灣有123萬人是 但我們的比例人口比例是5.2%是 那這個部分"},{"start":3756.793,"end":3777.979,"text":"甚至比原住民這些包括都還要多嘛 對不對所以在這種情況之下生長者我們尤其是他們是在我們奪牌很多的希望當然不是為了奪牌我也不能這樣講但是我覺得因為要給他們一個平權尤其是這個議題上面那這個部分你們提到是說有在路跑啦 自行車跟游泳對不對可是其他部分的話你們有沒有什麼未來的新的規劃針對生長者"},{"start":3780.211,"end":3791.422,"text":"其他的項目是一定會陸續規劃的因為我們才剛剛開始運動部成立到現在也不過兩個多月我們特別為了身障的這件事情我們成立了適應運動師就是要專門針對這個族群的人做設計做規劃跟法令的一個制定我們希望"},{"start":3800.091,"end":3821.436,"text":"我們的障礙者可以透過運動的投入他們的生活當中讓他們的身體更健康讓他們更享受他們的人生好 這就呈現出來今天有說適應運動科對不對適應運動師適應運動師好 到師等級就非常重要了是的希望說 我就想說未來這一個部分的運動平權的報告真的年度初一定要出現這可以承諾嗎"},{"start":3822.824,"end":3842.45,"text":"可以可以 好 謝謝因為大家都關心這個問題還跟國際現在比較所以包括你們各種各類的分級所以你們現在也沒有分級就對了目前沒有那麼的清楚其實我覺得真的要這些部分要做分級出來才可以知道尤其是現在有所謂的全民運動署房署長也在那邊所以這邊覺得一定要去做下去我們也會監督在這個議題上面"},{"start":3843.61,"end":3857.405,"text":"好 那繼續我們看到的是因為違反運動平均其實會出現到好幾個問題剛剛有看到的是包括人員訓練的不足人員訓練的不足很重要的是前幾天剛好在上個禮拜或是11月中旬的時候看到一個很大的議題是"},{"start":3858.966,"end":3887.416,"text":"就是身障者人士到汐止的運動場與球場要去打球嘛結果就因為被運動員說你會有這個把場地弄壞甚至就把它拒絕掉啊這些部分就是非常重要的歧視性的待遇這種對待造成一個這種不平等的現象可是如果這個理由就是在於不夠的清楚就是包括志工的或是行政人員的管理員等等都不清楚這一部分的是不是也可以等一下我提到的是要有一個"},{"start":3888.436,"end":3903.963,"text":"包括整體的一個怎麼樣的對運動的尤其是身障者的管理辦法是不是要有一個全國性的一個總則有沒有這個必要性我們應該會制定出一個指引出來委員剛剛講的那個案例當我在報紙上看到那個報告的時候我自己本身也很難過怎麼會這個樣子呢"},{"start":3906.064,"end":3931.789,"text":"那絕對不是我們的本意我們也不希望看到這個樣子但是不表示我們就沒事了我們會持續的努力把這個地方的規則指引通告到全國去讓大家能夠去一體試用我們不希望因為設計的不好對 時間什麼時候做我們會立刻開始做因為我看到你們報告其實說是114年我可能以為是因為上個月的發生的事情所以今年年底一定會出來這樣的一個全國性的通用指引嗎"},{"start":3936.159,"end":3940.553,"text":"你們內部還沒有討論 已經有了只是還沒有 已經有但是沒有通讓全球全國嘛對不對"},{"start":3943.662,"end":3970.569,"text":"應該是已經有了可是我們必須要再一次去檢視一下它到底有沒有周延或者它的密度到底夠不夠有些時候只是一般性像高位的一個指引可能還不夠我們可能要細緻那個指引要到細緻的作業上面去可能才會到位而且必須要跟所有場館的管理員甚至義工等等都必須要有這樣的概念認真要張貼說我們是一個友善的增長者的一個環境這才是這樣全民運動的一個目標可以嗎"},{"start":3971.049,"end":3976.727,"text":"我们会持续的办理这方面的一个研习会来跟大家做教育"},{"start":3977.253,"end":4005.344,"text":"好目標我覺得就是指引的公告我們先去做第一步到年底的時候出現之後大概我想大概兩個月三個兩個月左右應該就是這個讓民眾或是管理員都應該清楚的知道這樣的一個概念是的好那我們現在繼續再往下看女性的部分在性別你平權那請問一下你要建構一個女性的友善職場那女性可以從事的運動產業我現在不是說哪個產業我是哪些職位別職位別例如說在女人好了"},{"start":4006.864,"end":4021.345,"text":"職業別是不是從頭到尾的這個從頭的最上面的一個決策者如果是CEO像一個協會的CEO或是所謂的理事長然後到下面的中間的運動員行政員甚至包括運動產業裡面的體育用品人員是不是"},{"start":4022.796,"end":4044.43,"text":"目前在產業當中並沒有單獨去分這個是女性的產業那個目前是沒有這樣去分但是在職業運動當中目前我們有女子的足球公會我們的女子的籃球比賽它是在籃球協會裡面的它並沒有獨立出來一個籃球女子的籃球協會目前還沒有"},{"start":4045.707,"end":4060.578,"text":"對現在產業當中我的意思是要講到特別講到的是當然一般的我們去從事到運動產業都是人也都比較少了啦那女性的可能也在少一些點只是我在想女性跟男性其實在除了生理的差別之外他們能力不差"},{"start":4061.338,"end":4078.145,"text":"有什麼差別 沒有錯但是在這邊呢 我就想要下一個議題站職業跟業餘男女的選手這邊呢到底有的薪水差異剛才說這邊女男跟男男嘛對不對我發覺像女男或是女足這邊 甚至男足這邊通通都是企業站住對不對"},{"start":4079.265,"end":4103.726,"text":"那這個部分很重要的是 企業這部分的贊助是不是可以尤其是我們剛才我想要看到是一個很重要的議題就是在我們女足 她的排名是是在前段班是大概40名那男足大概就是160是後面的 但是這個資源差距很大這部分你們怎麼去說明 特別在說要找到性別平權的情況之下尤其是女足的表現又是更優了 怎麼辦"},{"start":4104.486,"end":4116.107,"text":"女足一直是我們重點輔導一個項目因為女足要進入世界盃的距離遠遠的接近於男性的足球隊所以我們的確是重點在輔導我們的女子足球隊的培訓的工作"},{"start":4116.476,"end":4137.132,"text":"那你的資源到底有多少你看看我們只看到他只公佈我們公告出來的資料只有器材費並有完整的訓練跟旅費但是呢非法的這邊所給的男族就是至少3億左右一年是3億左右這部分是不是可以投注到相對性的尤其女族是有機會在全世界發光放熱"},{"start":4138.411,"end":4156.52,"text":"我们是这样子因为这个钱FIFA给的钱是直接给到足球协会去那是他们等于是他们的自筹款我们会透过我们后半段的一个法令的一个规定希望在经费分配当中能够达到50 50的一个概念但是这是个理想短期间之内可能做不到但是我们会朝这个方面来努力"},{"start":4157.273,"end":4171.665,"text":"好 但是你剛剛講是男主那女主也是這樣嗎不是 因為它直接給的就是FIFA給它不分男女對 但是那女 不分男女它不分男女直接給我們的主角協會FIFA就是希望說男女的一半一半對 因為FIFA就是男女主都在他們裡面 OK 好"},{"start":4172.526,"end":4200.512,"text":"希望說說你也要監督因為明年要改選了嘛對不對 是好 那這個好 朝偉我就再繼續下去另外在這部分是看到的是在於好不是最重要是在性別的這個平台字體上面是不是可以有一個制度是學習到美國的這個TitleTitle IXTitle IX的這個部分就是凡是接受到聯邦就是換成我們台灣就是國家經費的教育機構在任何場所當中都不應該因為性別而歧視是不是要可以揭示這樣的一個目標"},{"start":4201.092,"end":4205.745,"text":"我们是要往这个地方来努力的没有错的确我在美国读书的时候Title IX就是我"},{"start":4207.028,"end":4232.56,"text":"花了很多時間在學習的內容1970年簽署的法案好 那因為時間的關係我剛才也提到身障的部分因為那些身心障礙者權益保障法跟國民體法都有在做這些事情就是請 這樣說今年年底的報告今年年底就是那個指引要出現後來就是再把他的公告抽資那最後的部分就在於要跟要講的是好 我應該是講到是這個最後就希望在於說"},{"start":4233.34,"end":4243.449,"text":"再請市長再做一個公告就是在說未來就是每年年度的一個這個白皮書就是運動平權每年出版年度報告是會確定的嘛 對不對"},{"start":4244.462,"end":4267.202,"text":"我們會努力往那邊來走好 那請大家針對的是兒少伸張跟性別職業編導這邊的部分的狀況去做我們會把這邊列入我們的報告內容我們的性別平權的這件事情我們會依據行政院的性別性別性評處的指引來製作我們的報告書的內容好 謝謝 謝謝次長大家一起努力謝謝劉書斌 張偉質詢次長請回座"},{"start":4273.646,"end":4274.607,"text":"接下來請羅廷偉委員質詢好謝謝召委有請次長請次長"},{"start":4291.803,"end":4309.116,"text":"好 市長好市長請問一下你在工作之餘有沒有在社區附近的公園運動或者是觀察一下這個周遭的環境設施有那可不可以回應一下你再分享一下你住家周邊的公園有哪些主要運動設施"},{"start":4310.177,"end":4337.059,"text":"我们家附近有一个运动公园它有一个滑冰场它有好几块草地还有两三个棒壘球场因为我住林口我家就在林口运动公园旁边棒壘球 极限运动然后有几个蛮刚好的在这个部分儿童的游乐区那是否有无障碍设计多功能运动空间体现设施 长者的部分"},{"start":4337.739,"end":4361.806,"text":"目前沒有那麼明確被標示出來我現在看得到的就是要從馬路進到那個場域他那個地方是有個RAM也就是說輪椅可以上得去的目前那個地方是看得到的為什麼會帶這樣的話題其實我是希望說從您個人的觀察角度我們來看到怎麼推廣運動平權該如何讓大眾養成親近運動友善實用的這個公共設施的習慣是"},{"start":4363.746,"end":4383.123,"text":"这个其实是我刚刚的报告当中有提到它是一个制度性它是一个长期的工作它还有牵涉到很多观念的改变其实我要这样子要进而带到我自己本身在选区有遇到这样子很多的家长需求我不知道你有没有想过能够跟自己的孩子投接棒球"},{"start":4383.883,"end":4400.674,"text":"當然有我覺得這很多家長尤其是父與子的一個期待那面對這一個棒球又是所謂的台灣的國球可是我們看到最簡單的頭階在很多的不管是校園的操場連校園開放"},{"start":4402.813,"end":4427.144,"text":"夜间的时候或者是公园连投接棒球都不行因为就是禁止打棒球因为它有它的风险在对 那风险这个第一第二就是在投打的时候也怕是会有这个所谓的急球的部分攻击到人但是很多的家长只是很单纯的希望单纯的投接没有要打击但是却没有一个投接的这个场域"},{"start":4428.184,"end":4452.656,"text":"來做一個親近國球親近運動各式運動的一個機會所以我想運動部升格以後社會對整個政府的期待不只是追求國際球場上我們的成績更希望在平時不分年齡性別地域身心狀況每一個人能夠更方便的更安全的沒有障礙的參與運動這是我們希望能夠落實運動平權的"},{"start":4453.717,"end":4481.351,"text":"那也是我們努力的一個目標對 但是目前並不是每一個人身邊都真的像有一個安全便利或者是友善的運動像您說的您在林口這個部分剛好可能有這個壘球有這個極限運動的一個機會可以親近可是有很多的國人並不一定能夠親近到這個部分的運動設施是的所以像我剛剛常講的可能投接棒球能不能夠增加這些場域它可能很簡單的一個圍欄"},{"start":4482.728,"end":4509.421,"text":"他就這樣一個很為難就可以處理甚至我們有一些公司很長的勞工他住在偏鄉或者是身心障礙者高齡者即使想動卻常常被環境所困住了被制度所擋在門外所以想請教市長在這個現行的運動政策白皮書都一再強調要提升全民運動擴大運動參與可是落實運動平權跟社會包容請問目前運動部對於運動平權"},{"start":4510.982,"end":4538.948,"text":"的方面推动有没有具体的行为目前我们是希望透过因为刚刚委员所提到这个小型的运动设施它都必须要跟地方政府去合作没有错 我知道所以我们必须要先把我们的指引提出来也就是我们刚刚一再强调我们未来要推动的就是希望能够运动全民化的一个概念我们希望能够普及所以我们会跟地方政府去合作请他们提这一类的案因为中央政府能够是给他们做补助他们如果不提案"},{"start":4539.528,"end":4568.145,"text":"我們沒有辦法市集到地方去蓋這些簡易的設施我先這樣講如果設置起來這個是地方政府的權責但是中央政府能不能給予指引給予補助再來我們都常常在講財化法財化法這個部分我現在要的是不是要你直接專案補助大額補助全額補助有時候就是哪怕你給兩成因為財化法關係可能中央的部分能夠給予的補助越來越有限但是你給兩成以後"},{"start":4569.093,"end":4595.263,"text":"地方不做你看地方會不會被罵一定會啊你給了兩層就是拋磚引玉了嘛但我現在希望做的是中央要有一個指引要有一個極度建議讓地方願意去做甚至我給了一層兩層三層你地方不做我們就地方開始議員就會罵啦因為中央有補助款地方不配合啊所以這個部分我希望你有沒有做過盤點哪些地方的運動機會是明顯不足的"},{"start":4595.823,"end":4614.345,"text":"全面性的盤點事實上是沒有還沒有完成的的確那是我們要去我覺得應該要做這樣的計畫的確是這樣子因為我們如果沒有做盤點我們沒有辦法去編列足夠的預算來讓地方來做申請我們也希望我們一再的強調大型的場館現階段不是我們要去走的我們希望"},{"start":4615.486,"end":4635.575,"text":"場地的設計是可以親民好用的台中可不可以先來做一個盤點我請台中市政府要配合我來幫你督促我們可以跟地方政府做多方面的討論我很願意做的一件事情是建立一些model出來之後讓更多的縣市政府可以去follow因為政府的預算也是有限"},{"start":4636.135,"end":4656.783,"text":"因為我現在看到我原本想問你面臨的主要困難在哪裡但是現在看到第一個困難就是我們沒盤點沒盤點沒辦法去編列預算所以我希望台中市就能夠作為第一優先被盤點的一個部分因為我們提出了那也希望你們能夠提出這個需求那地方政府一定要配合好不好可以這部分可以嗎可以其實我在"},{"start":4657.663,"end":4674.983,"text":"一个多月前就有碰到台中市的邮局长我跟他说我想要到台中去跟他谈一谈足球基层的推广因为那个地方的足球人口非常的多我们也正在兴建当中所以这个部分当然很希望地方政府的一个model然后让全国各县市可以去follow"},{"start":4675.083,"end":4697.418,"text":"有機會我請他上來在立法院我們也一起來談談聊聊足球園區的未來規劃跟運動足球這個部分的推廣好不好但我想近年來身心障礙者的一個運動權益我們逐漸受到了一個重視可是在設施上可靜性跟專業輔具的方面仍有挑戰運動部有沒有跟衛福部協調了解身心障礙者的實際需求實際的需求我們會"},{"start":4698.579,"end":4724.158,"text":"没有那么的理解虽然过去有接触可是它的执行的内容并不是很多包含了现在障碍者要到我们一般的运动中心去他为了要做一个简单的bench press对他来说都是困难重重对困难重重我们会从设计上面我们会从研究上面去开发我们自己的产品因为目前在芬兰有一系列专门针对障碍者的运动器材可是进口某种程度还是困难的"},{"start":4724.338,"end":4740.727,"text":"我認為是這樣子國外當然我們要參考但是我希望不管是剛剛前面的盤點跟現在我們應該實際去了解身障者運動權益他在推動上需要什麼需求我們再來推動所以我原本要問你有什麼推動策略但我覺得第一個最重要是先了解需求"},{"start":4741.207,"end":4756.086,"text":"所以這個部分我也希望你能夠加強我的理解當中可以的我的理解當中我們適應師就是在做這樣子的盤點好那另外我想跟你講就是孩子的運動時間常常不足我自己也是三包奶爸那我個人都覺得"},{"start":4756.886,"end":4780.011,"text":"這個是家長最常反應的也最普遍在問的一個問題孩子在學校上課七到八小時下課時間有限放學後又常常要補習兩到三小時面對這樣子的一個日常要抽出時間來運動其實已經是全國家長的一個最大困境所以我們常在講要給孩子更好的運動空間希望學校不要賣這個含糖的飲料之類的但是我注意到整個報告當中"},{"start":4781.751,"end":4807.347,"text":"確實有提到兒少面相但是內容集中在經費補助兒少體育運動教練跟知能的一個課程比較偏向孩子開始運動之後這樣的強化措施那我要談的是當他接觸運動之後的強化你們有做但是卻沒有談到我剛剛所談到的一個問題也就是真正能夠運動的時間到底有多少還有如何讓他接觸到運動"},{"start":4808.448,"end":4824.84,"text":"換句話說我們在強化是如何教孩子安全的運動的同時卻沒有處理到孩子運動時間越來越不夠的一個瓶頸如果孩子一天上課加補習超過10個小時實際運動不到30分鐘那再多的指引恐怕都難以發揮效果你有沒有感覺到"},{"start":4825.12,"end":4847.659,"text":"完全理解接受委員的指導我們接下來要做的就是社區俱樂部的一個概念就是在課後因為我們沒有辦法把學生直接從學校拉出來說你不要上課我們就是希望通過社區俱樂部的概念去推動我們小孩子的可親近性可是這個部分我要糾正你們一下我看了你們的一個網站全民運動署網站在全民運動項目裡面"},{"start":4849.62,"end":4869.64,"text":"我們看到女性運動跟兒少運動的相關規劃可以說是空白一片點進去裡面幾乎是一個很簡單的簡介或者是可以說是願景因此我想請教次長面對兒少運動時間不足是個跨部會 跨場域共同挑戰運動部的一個最核心最需要優先投入的著力點是什麼"},{"start":4870.24,"end":4894.6,"text":"未来运动部在自己的权责范围内是否有提升场地可进行扩大运动活动供给以及协助地方发展社区化的运动模式来做一个着手这个部分我认为要跨部会的协调运动部可不可以就教育部以及地方政府有一个更好的合作机制在孩子的有限日常时间里面给予更多持续的运动机会您觉得呢"},{"start":4895.319,"end":4915.213,"text":"沒有錯 你講的完全正確我們就是規劃在12月底以前我們會找教育部跟邀請地方政府共同來為這件事情因為我們不太容易單獨靠運動部就說在學校裡面怎麼做它必須是跨部會甚至還有地方政府要一起來努力我們就是希望能夠提供更多的機會給小孩子進來運動"},{"start":4916.274,"end":4932.985,"text":"那12月底我們看一下效果那我也是要跟你再次提醒那個網頁啦這個空白的確讓我們很擔憂啦我們希望說這個部分一定要補上所以這個我最後再一個議題再跟你請教我們現在蕭副總統"},{"start":4933.866,"end":4948.256,"text":"在2025年11月的時候在這個達福林皮革運動的代表壽盛典禮上說我們成立運動部也有一個勢力的一個適應運動師就是要實現運動平權那也希望說以這個適應運動師能夠來以終身參與專業支持創新制度的一個創新投入一個資源"},{"start":4960.485,"end":4969.399,"text":"這部分我想他的談話裡面利益良善那我們也看到卓院長在12月2號也有在這樣相關的一個訪談期免運動部積極發展適應運動"},{"start":4973.292,"end":4989.881,"text":"對這個高齡 身障還有因傷需求者找到合適的運動方式這些都是因為我們看到社會大眾對於這樣的一個期待政府也希望把這些理念化成制度願景化成能力我們需要看到更完整的推動架構因此"},{"start":4990.461,"end":5017.863,"text":"我希望适应运动的指导者需要了解身心状况医疗背景还有运动风险的一个管理目前各场域的人力来源非常多元一般教练赋能的背景人员还有所谓的志工社区指导员皆有专业落差的这个相当大缺乏统一的一个基准请问运动部怎么去规划要怎么建立现在的一个适应运动教练职能的一个标准"},{"start":5018.757,"end":5045.14,"text":"适应运动教练职能这件事情我们必须要重新去看待长期以来我们的这些听障碍者到外面去比赛的教练都是从一般的教练过来其实有部分的教练对于障碍者身体 生理上面的障碍他可能产生的运动过后的一些副作用其实掌握是不够的因为我本身就是这个领域的人所以我们会希望去制定新一版的适应运动教练的这方面的一个职能"},{"start":5045.8,"end":5063.476,"text":"讓他在指導障礙者運動的時候安全還是第一個我們要考量一件事情好 稍微最後30秒目前多數運動中心社區據點跟學校提供的課程仍然為一般族群所為主那私營運動的課程量偏低"},{"start":5063.956,"end":5081.379,"text":"排成不穩定也缺少能夠示範的常態化這個班級請問運動部是不是能夠規劃將適應運動也納入到運動中心社區據點這個部分是我很關切的也希望這個部分會後我們能夠再來就教是的 好不好 拜託一下謝謝羅廷維委員諮詢次長請回座我給你五分鐘了接下來請萬美玲委員諮詢"},{"start":5097.145,"end":5098.81,"text":"好 谢谢赵伟 我们有请次长"},{"start":5105.359,"end":5129.212,"text":"市長早 委員您好剛才本席在下面聽到您回答羅廷維委員其實有一句話讓我真的非常的錯愕跟驚訝您說您並不了解生長者需要什麼樣的運動輔具我沒有這樣講有有有 你剛剛講那你告訴我你剛剛原話講什麼是說我們對於他需要的類型有很多我們不是那麼的完整的了解對嘛 就是不了解嘛"},{"start":5130.252,"end":5152.12,"text":"我跟你讲即便你把它修正成这样的说法我都觉得蛮严重的怎么会不了解呢我想我们在运动部虽然现在是从原来的教育部体育署出来不过呢学校归学校运动部跟运动部真是还是不能够分开的有很多还是要再做合作何况我们在选手的部分有很多像我们的帕奥啊听奥啊"},{"start":5152.54,"end":5176.252,"text":"都有相關的選手嘛怎麼可以說不瞭解喔所以我覺得您今天在這裡這樣子回答說因為我們都不瞭解這一些我覺得這個說法有失道我也很抱歉喔我不能說我全部不瞭解但是我也不敢說我什麼都瞭解啊不要在這種言語上面來做這樣無謂的爭辯了啦是是對不對你剛剛自己回答說你不瞭解不瞭解怎麼會對呢你不知道修正還要在這裡做這樣言語上的爭辯怎麼會對呢"},{"start":5177.933,"end":5201.941,"text":"是不是如果連你次長都不了解請問運動部怎麼去幫忙這些身心障礙的這些選手們或者是運動的朋友們是不是還可以在這邊大剌剌的講說我不是這樣講是那樣講我沒有辦法這個全盤都了解但是呢我可能有一部分了解這在講什麼東西啊糾正你呢你就應該要虛心接受不是嗎我接受我接受要不要道歉道歉道歉什麼事我剛剛講太多的辯解"},{"start":5203.584,"end":5226.838,"text":"我沒有針對你的辯解你剛講不了解這件事情不瞭解就是不瞭解是不是應該要去加強當然是那我們再來看我們剛剛看到我們的報告第十頁的部分您自己聽出來報告您有看過嗎有看過我們在第十頁的部分提到營造多元友善空間跟環境其中性別友善設施還有無障礙設施等等列了非常多項"},{"start":5227.859,"end":5257.125,"text":"我們現在都已經納入了全國運動普查項目成果已經公佈於官網沒有錯對不對有公佈然後我們又寫了一個報告一句話叫做整體性別友善基無障礙設施設置的比例已有顯著提升來 部長司長剛剛說有看過這個成果報告你為什麼能夠說無障礙設施設置的比例已經顯著提升可以說明一下嗎這個數字是由我們設施師提供出來的"},{"start":5257.745,"end":5269.776,"text":"什麼樣的數字你講給我聽請次長您回答我不知道特別的數字所以你不知道所以你不知道當你看到這個報告的時候你也沒有覺得這個數字到底是對的還是不對的所以你同意在你不知道情況之下就是顯著提升你今天來這裡備詢自己報告的數字有看過嗎沒有全盤的看完那怎麼樣的顯著法"},{"start":5280.66,"end":5303.861,"text":"我不知道你不知道以後來這裡備詢的之前可不可以把這些功課先基本做好因為畢竟這是您剛剛所報告的東西對於自己口頭報告完的東西你告訴我你不知道我真的覺得對委員非常不尊重是因為這個部分的督導平常不是我的督導的業務我只負責那這樣又有問題了我就是時間暫停一下對不起我真的時間需要暫停一下"},{"start":5305.571,"end":5331.718,"text":"趙偉請教一下如果今天我們來備詢然後我們問什麼他說因為這都不是我督導那我們今天請他來做什麼不是抱歉委員應該是這樣講對不起我請教一下那個趙偉是不是能夠理解一下我們這樣今天備詢有意義嗎社長請您解釋一下關於這個業務如果不是您督導那承辦的人員在不在在這裡那是不是要請承辦的人員但是市長也不能一問三不知"},{"start":5333.052,"end":5355.434,"text":"他没有说他不知道他应该意思是说师长会比较了解那我们是不是就是我请主席就是能不能以后来备询我相信他也没有办法全盘通通都知道但是可能不能用就是说我没有读到那这个我不熟悉那个我不了解我觉得这样的回答其实不是很好可不可以请他们更正师长应该要说正我们请我们职责的师长来回答对 这是我不好的地方"},{"start":5355.874,"end":5370.868,"text":"好 謝謝主席那好 來次讓我們繼續那所以呢我也上網去看了那您也可以上網去看一下那運動部的公告兩次全國運動普查分別是在108年跟112年我們看到本席先以無障礙設施設置比例來看"},{"start":5372.189,"end":5397.518,"text":"成长的幅度最高的是在无障碍厕所那从过去的35.23%提高到了51.57%这代表的意义是还有一半以上的公有运动场馆是没有无障碍厕所的我觉得本性觉得非常严重还有一半那无障碍的停车格跟机车格比例分别只有36.15%跟13.85%我觉得这也是低的可怜所以你先看一下这个是我们相关的设施"},{"start":5398.058,"end":5425.556,"text":"好 我們再來看到無障礙的服務設置的部分包括大門的服務鈴 身障者的諮詢輔導視障人力引導 聽障者的溝通等等設置比例都是不增反減好 再來看本席認為更重要的就是無障礙運動設備跟輔具也就是您剛剛所說的你不太了解的部分那我們一起來了解一下其中比較多人要使用的這個游泳入水的坡道還有可調式的籃球框 排球羽球網"},{"start":5428.098,"end":5447.858,"text":"设置的比例一样是不升反减您可以看一下这个比例我今天都在这里给您看了所以你看我们看到这些运动设施都是不升反减就没有更好反而更差这第一个那第二个呢如果我们有改善那个比例看起来还是"},{"start":5448.258,"end":5459.169,"text":"絕大部分對我們生長者都是不友善的所以這樣子的一個數據下來我們的報告怎麼還能夠寫說是有顯著的成效你覺得這個報告這樣寫是對的嗎"},{"start":5462.23,"end":5481.75,"text":"如果用剛剛這樣的角度你這樣還要寫說是有顯著提升這樣是對的嗎我們可以把它調整一下可以調整好那我們再來看喔繼續看因為那個次長不是太了解沒關係我們也往下看喔另外像是做事排球田徑助跑器盲人足球棒球設置數啊都是零那"},{"start":5482.39,"end":5511.229,"text":"過去我們看到投擲的輔助椅手搖跑步機在108年的時候我們這個都還有在常委都還有可是我們到112年直接歸零直接歸零就沒有了所以也許您今天可以回答我說某一些東西我們使用的比例不夠高所以我們可能就沒有了或者取消了我不知道待會會給您一點時間但是我們如果今天在運動部全國普查的項目上是有這個項目的而它變成零了或是它變成更不好變負數了"},{"start":5512.09,"end":5532.149,"text":"这就是要检讨嘛对不对这个现场它就是不对好再往下我们再来看过去体育署在前瞻基础建设计划特别预算当中我们有补助地方政府在运动场馆办理改善无障碍的设施那包括了项目也非常的多这个次长应该知道那但是呢"},{"start":5532.489,"end":5559.893,"text":"这一些其实我们都是方便身障者可以进入到我们的运动场馆这些无障碍事实包括无障碍坡道这个身障设备还有刚刚我们提到的无障碍厕所的领域等等这一些其实都是方便我们的身障朋友们可以进入到运动场馆可是他们进来以后如果我们刚刚的那一些就是运动设置这个项目这个设备当中是没有的他进来做什么"},{"start":5560.433,"end":5589.025,"text":"他進來做什麼他沒有辦法直接參與這個運動這是沒有直接幫助的好 接下來我們再來看審計部次長審計部在113年決算報告當中指出運動部全國運動場館資訊網登錄了100個你們自己登錄了100個運動中心其中有48個運動中心是沒有設置無障礙運動設備的不管是運動池入水升降座椅或者入水坡道等等可調適籃球框"},{"start":5590.225,"end":5617.88,"text":"这些都是非常的重要无障碍的健身器材都没有而市长啊这100个运动中心当然我们可以说有42个目前是叫做在学校管理过去是体育署的时候它可能就是一体了那今天分开来了以后好那42个归学校我们当然要去督促学校或者看跟学校怎么合作跟配合但是呢全国还是有58个国民运动中心啊是本席所说的没有啊这是什么都没有啊"},{"start":5618.14,"end":5640.487,"text":"做得这么差你看我们提到的游泳入水坡道只有22个国民运动中心有设置篮球可调式的篮筐只有37个国民运动中心可设置如果本席今天在以上所讲的不管是我们国民运动中心我们公有的运动场馆我们对于运动的设施设备环境都这么差"},{"start":5641.347,"end":5651.258,"text":"我们自己带头都做这么不好请问一下我们今天要怎么去谈到这个平权我们要怎么去谈到在这些身心障碍朋友的运动权来次长回答一下"},{"start":5653.117,"end":5679.606,"text":"這個部分我們會在未來在明年開始我們的確會編列預算專門針對運動中心去做一些調整因為的確在過去因為它是委外經營他們會從商業的角度去看待但是我們會編列特別的預算專門為這些需求去做改善多久的時間計劃有嗎改善要完成可能會花一點改善總要一個期程我們要一個短中長期是不是"},{"start":5681.101,"end":5698.221,"text":"我們明天就可以開始做了市長我想今天當然市長也在這我們我是認為就是剛剛我們前段的時候我們在談說我不了解我覺得不了解這件事情倒沒有那麼嚴重因為我們就趕快去了解但我們的一個態度很重要"},{"start":5699.082,"end":5712.392,"text":"如果說我們覺得說我不清楚現在到底對於我們身心障礙的朋友們跟我們的運動員們有哪些地方對他們來說是不足的我覺得這件事是嚴重的OK 我的態度是對的了我就會趕快下去來幫忙 來解決"},{"start":5714.594,"end":5738.762,"text":"但是我的态度上如果是说因为我不了解我觉得这个是本席今天不能接受在这个点那市长我当然知道其实你也很认真那今天即便这个业务不管是不是你督导但我们都是运动部大家是一个团队尤其运动部刚成立大家对运动部有很多的期待期许也都在看着运动部会有什么成绩出来今天既然谈到平权我想我们不能很多事情就只做表面"},{"start":5739.702,"end":5769.265,"text":"有一个某一个数字好像漂亮了我们就说叫显著改善而你看到今天本席所提出来的每一样数字要不就是退步要不然还归零这很严重的所以呢我不一一细数但次长我请您今天我所提出来的我们每一项只要它数字是往后退步的请你告诉我原因是什么第二个改善计划是什么我们希望不但要让设施设备让我们的这些身心障碍的朋友可以进入到运动场内还要让他们能够运动"},{"start":5770.405,"end":5784.651,"text":"這兩個層次我請次長在會後給我一個相關的檢討報告跟改善計畫一個月內給我可以嗎可以好謝謝你謝謝委員好謝謝萬美玲委員謝謝次長接下來有請陳秀寶召委謝主席請次長好有請次長"},{"start":5803.14,"end":5822.721,"text":"市長你好我還是要講一下我們這次排定這個運動平權的專報主要也是希望說我們要了解現在我們整個對我們運動平權我們相關我們的規劃我們的做法是那你剛回答委員說這個像正規是這個業務不是你督導的我覺得這個是不太"},{"start":5823.547,"end":5843.633,"text":"对抱歉委员应该是这样讲我的确没有讲你可能回来比较急但是我要我还是要再提醒你我们今天排这个专报就是希望你们来报告你们相关的这个作为做法规划然后未来你们怎么做那你今天不能回答说这不是您辅导这不是你的业务这个"},{"start":5844.453,"end":5865.389,"text":"您要修正而且你也要認定這就是你的工作沒錯好剛剛講了我們排這個專報就是期望說運動部在成立之後人力經費都有所擴充那我們可以在運動平權上有更多的努力更實質的作為跟落實那我們首先我們從這個小地方來看"},{"start":5866.169,"end":5894.416,"text":"我們從男子組女子組的這個運動的賽事轉播我們就可以很明顯的看出這個差別首先呢我們來說總統盃3對3的籃球賽兩天的男女組的賽事場次是一樣的但轉播的數字比呢第一天是10比0第二天是8比4同年度的這個全運會足球的項目呢同樣的賽事場數男組女組轉播的比例是6比2"},{"start":5895.396,"end":5911.127,"text":"我們再來看114年大專盃籃球聯賽的轉播男子組是常常都有轉播或是網路直播女子組則是每天的第三場開始才有轉播所以本席在這邊提到總統盃主要也是因為說"},{"start":5912.783,"end":5940.171,"text":"運動部我們的政策我們是希望說打造運動要走入生活我們在打造讓總統府前也能成為運動空間的這個圖像的同時我們全台灣喜愛運動喜愛籃球的女孩們就算她們沒有帶馬到現場只要是有我們網路的轉播能夠讓她們也能夠看到能夠想像在總統府前的這個球場是一個她有朝一日也可能可以站上去的舞台"},{"start":5940.771,"end":5964.423,"text":"但是被看見能夠成為女孩子帶來期待的可能性只可惜在台灣的這個運動的現場即便我們是有女子組的賽事但是在官方的這個鏡頭中女孩們往往就是被迫選擇看不見的這樣的安排因為轉播時被選擇的往往都不是女子組次長您覺得說是什麼樣的原因造成這樣的狀況"},{"start":5965.404,"end":5992.257,"text":"那现在运动部已经成立了我们期待的是运动部不能不仅是说可以重视运动平权这小地方也应该要落实市长您说呢我认为就这个数字上来看其实是不理想的而我们现在因为有些时候转播是商业上面的考量现阶段我们对于转播这件事情有了新的一个调整就我们未来在我们可以掌控的转播的场次当中我们会要求到50-50的一个概念"},{"start":5992.717,"end":6013.317,"text":"好 希望次長您說到也這樣子努力我們運動部成立這個性別平等專案小組在運動部的這個臉書上面有說了運動部的性平小組有幾項工作那其中推動性別平等政策及提升運動領域的性別環境呢剛剛本席提到這個運動賽事的轉播"},{"start":6015.058,"end":6034.048,"text":"所以說希望次長你可以更全面的提升我們運動賽事中女子組運動賽事的這個轉播讓女孩可以被看見即便這些狀況不是故意的但是這真的也是凸顯了我們的台灣的運動文化在這個運動性平意識上是有空白的那接下來請教次長競技運動應該也會是"},{"start":6038.791,"end":6050.01,"text":"急需提升性別意識的場域那為什麼我們競技司沒有在性品小組的名單裡面抱歉我誰知道誰來回答"},{"start":6052.467,"end":6071.116,"text":"當時是所以沒有人能回答因為我們裡面我們內部的因為他必須要有內部委員跟外部的委員所以當時我們在選擇這些的時候我們在挑選的時候就是從我們內部的一些主管來挑選你這樣的說法 你這樣的回答"},{"start":6074.522,"end":6096.952,"text":"如果性平小組要期許自己這麼多的目標這麼多的推動項目好那本席覺得納入競技師是非常必要的因為在多個多數個需要提升性別意識的場域呢競技運動其實是非常的需要提升性別意識那市長您覺得現在我們現在我們把競技師納入這個有沒有問題有問題嗎有困難嗎"},{"start":6104.059,"end":6113.85,"text":"沒有困難啦我們會努力去做到這樣的事情啦因為現在是名單上面我沒有辦法回答為什麼競技室好那這樣子惠厚你告訴我為什麼那你告訴我什麼時候納入好不好"},{"start":6115.154,"end":6134.068,"text":"好 市長為了督促運動部可以更積極地在運動平權的努力我建議運動部你們應該設置運動性評獎目前運動性評相關的獎項是包含在運動推手獎的特別獎裡面而且已經三年沒有相關得獎者"},{"start":6135.589,"end":6152.467,"text":"甚至說這個特別獎還不是專屬的獎項而是跟其他項目一起本席希望說運動部你們可以考量設置運動性平獎或是運動平權獎對我們自己業務執行一個激勵也是一個目標可以嗎我們納入考慮"},{"start":6153.989,"end":6183.064,"text":"另外我也希望说为了让关心运动性贫的民众更了解运动部对于运动性贫的努力本席也希望说运动部你们这边考量设置运动性贫年报这个部分要纳入预算的使用参赛以及专业人力的状况那也可以设置运动平权的年报这个部分你们可以研议吗可以 我们刚刚有承诺我们在每一年的年底当然今年不会有了明年的话我们会去制定这一个平权的年报"},{"start":6183.991,"end":6203.66,"text":"好 這個你們可以那這邊我最後我來問一下次長您覺得對城鄉的運動平權的問題根據體育署114年運動統計顯示彰化縣113年度的規律運動人口是所有縣市倒數第二低大概只有三成的民眾有規律運動的習慣"},{"start":6206.362,"end":6211.269,"text":"彰化縣民在113年度平均享有的運動體育運動經費也只有540元次長你覺得說運動經費這個低落這個資源跟設施跟民眾的運動習慣是不是有關聯是"},{"start":6222.805,"end":6230.69,"text":"你也覺得好運動部成立有一個很大的目標就是要推廣全民運動在運動習慣比較落後的這些現實我們運動部這邊是不是能夠提出讓民眾養成運動習慣的相關政策"},{"start":6238.7,"end":6258.326,"text":"我們會根據這樣的調查結果我會拜託我們全民署專門針對這些相對比較數字比較低的縣市個別去跟地方政府去做討論因為推動端是在地方政府政策端我們會從上面來支持的確從盧委員所說的我們要多做一些事情讓那些比較少運動的人能夠增加運動的習慣"},{"start":6259.626,"end":6273.445,"text":"這個方向是正確的你跟地方政府來討論到底他們需要的是經費設施還是怎樣的計畫來推動那這個部分呢我希望說運動部你們研議一下在三個月之內提出書面報告給本席辦公室那這邊我要再回來跟您討論關於我們"},{"start":6276.258,"end":6299.898,"text":"競技師沒有納入性評小組這個部分剛剛我講了你會後告訴我為什麼他沒有納入然後你要告訴我說你們在這個過程裡面到底競技師他沒有納入他的困難都是在哪裡然後你們之後要怎麼規劃怎麼做你一定要給我很詳細的你們的報告而且你要給我"},{"start":6300.658,"end":6320.006,"text":"清楚的說明因為我覺得你這樣回答我沒有辦法接受我們今天的這個專報就是要落實性平落實平權就你告訴我說這個在禁忌禁忌這個場域是最容易遇到說是這個性別意識會有落差的你告訴我說他沒有納入然後"},{"start":6322.301,"end":6345.472,"text":"我们这个专案小组其实是整体的看待整个运动部内部的法规跟制定推动业务的时候到底有没有遵守到这个性平的一个标准所以不论是哪一个人被部长指派到这个地方来成为委员我们会努力的朝性平的角度来推动我们的业务"},{"start":6347.199,"end":6373.169,"text":"運動 競技師是重要 沒有錯但是因為當時在選擇的時候我的理解應該是男女是各佔一半當時的選擇是只是有顧慮到男女各佔一半的一個想法而已沒有 這個書房我不能接受你會後再給我說明好 謝謝我再了解一下 抱歉好 謝謝陳孝寶召委接下來有請葉元之委員"},{"start":6387.608,"end":6388.35,"text":"主席好 麻煩請次長 謝謝請次長"},{"start":6397.962,"end":6424.021,"text":"次郎好 你好今年九月的時候那個李洋部長 蕭美琴副總統還有海委會的主委管碧玲尤其到浦東海水浴場參加了一個台灣無障礙海洋日的活動那當時部長是說希望能夠更多的身障者可以參與但那個是一個一次性的活動運動部那一天辦完活動之後有去再看一下那個場域有沒有身障者在那邊運動嗎"},{"start":6425.834,"end":6452.265,"text":"我們應該是在進行台灣不同的場域障礙設施的可及性的這個問題我們是全面的在瞭解因為當然現在今天要推動這個平權不是說辦一個活動宣誓議價就結束了是重點應該是你後續這樣的運動環境怎麼讓它可以變成常態讓身障者可以不再就是政府的類似的這種好像一定要政府辦的活動的情況之下去運動是"},{"start":6454.206,"end":6469.178,"text":"所以這中間就牽涉到很多部會的協調因為我的了解其實有些生動者那天參加完這個活動之後覺得很棒但是後來跟一些機關在接洽的時候發現大家並沒有整合"},{"start":6471.301,"end":6489.276,"text":"這個芙蓉海水浴場牽涉到非常多的單位包括北關處還有海巡署然後有很多單位好像旁邊還有一些跟農業有關的地什麼之類的現在你們的了解怎麼樣有去整合嗎"},{"start":6490.748,"end":6516.181,"text":"然後讓它可以變成一個生長者可以常態運動的地方有嗎推動水域的活動的確是我們紀念的一個政策的確這個地方我們需要更多的整合跟跨部會的來推動我當然知道因為你現在是要成立一個運動適應師適應運動師適應運動師不就是在做這件事嗎是所以那天辦完活動之後就沒後續了我針對的是福隆海水浴場這個部分"},{"start":6517.455,"end":6527.894,"text":"報告委員 我是市運運動司的副司長 那針對委員所講的 我們的確會後 我們已經召開跨部會的會議 我們邀請了海委會交通部在研商福隆海水浴場的問題"},{"start":6529.451,"end":6557.806,"text":"跨部什麼時候開的我們是在10月的時候就已經10月開的然後 那後續咧所以現在怎麼樣現在規劃是如何的確這個個案是比較複雜怎樣複雜因為包括剛才委員所提到的有牽涉到保安林地這些的問題必須要去做一些解決那你們有很積極在解決嗎有 這個部分我們會所以預計大概什麼時候可以達到你們想要達到的目標預計什麼時候我們這個部分有定期我們預計每三個月都會召開不是啦 每三個月是開會嘛是"},{"start":6558.226,"end":6585.612,"text":"你是什么时候可以把这个场域让伸张者来运动嘛什么时候你总是一个短期目标吧对我们希望不然总不可能说成立一个运动部然后有一个运动试运师每天只是开会吧没有任何成果吧所以你们预计什么时候会有成果是的我们这个部分我们会依照我们盘点全国的状况我们来处理那当然不是啊现在讲的都是都是空话都是讲不出来喔"},{"start":6586.837,"end":6613.702,"text":"都在講空話所以有沒有一個短期的目標有沒有短期的目標其實因為我們才適應師才剛剛開始我知道剛剛開始所以我沒有說叫你下個月我沒有說叫你下個月就有我是說你們設定一個短期目標因為聽起來是有在著手的我們會先去做盤點的工作因為沒有盤點就不知道該如何著手"},{"start":6614.102,"end":6642.556,"text":"好啦好啦好啦好啦 加油啦謝謝再來我們來看一下性評的部分你們現在有成立一個性別平等專案小組其實我也想問剛剛莊委有問的問題為什麼競技師沒有在裡面當初為什麼沒有因為競技師應該有管很多賽事應該也有相關很多性評議題吧所以為什麼會只排除競技師"},{"start":6644.321,"end":6656.833,"text":"沒有只排除啦那就沒有找他啊這個是事實 現在看起來對 為什麼市長為什麼我不知道你不知道你今天不是來報告平權的嗎然後你不知道"},{"start":6658.958,"end":6682.691,"text":"針對這個議題我真的你真的不知道今天大家一定會問平權的議題然後你說你不知道但你又是運動部的代表這不是滿荒謬的嗎我們當時在選擇是把現役運動員放進來沒有啦 部內委員部內的委員目前就是三個男生 三個女生不是啦我在講說部內委員部分為什麼沒有把競技師放進來"},{"start":6685.151,"end":6690.413,"text":"講的是這個我知道沒關係 不為難你第二個 為什麼裡面沒有男性運動員為什麼因為長期以來在女性的在這個平權當中女性是弱勢所以我們在挑選的時候現在好像這個觀念現在好像不是這樣現在講的是性別平等沒錯"},{"start":6710.205,"end":6737.936,"text":"所以男性的運動員在運動部的角色裡面是不用被保護的我們不會這麼做但是你剛剛講說長期是女性弱勢所以沒有男性長期以來是女性比較少現在觀念早就不是這樣了我們在新聞或在什麼職場都常看到是男性被受到性騷擾或什麼之類的男性都不用有代表那次長你怎麼會這樣子回答問題"},{"start":6741.451,"end":6765.793,"text":"我都不太懂耶今天在講性平然後結果次長講的話是完全次長講的話是完全違反性平耶我們把這個過程我們再回去一下如果可以增加我覺得這好諷刺喔超級諷刺你們今天來報告平權然後我們現在講性別平權然後我說怎麼沒有男性運動員你說因為女性比較弱勢保護女性就好了"},{"start":6766.772,"end":6793.417,"text":"男性不用保護這樣有做到平權我沒有說只保護女性不是啦 你意思就是這樣嘛否則為什麼沒有男性運動員在裡面為什麼我們回去再了解一下回去再了解不是 你今天不是機關代表嗎是這樣子的回答我不相信大家會滿意耶所以你怎麼會調整還是你只是要回去了解"},{"start":6793.996,"end":6815.111,"text":"我如果有空間可以調整我就會建議去調整因為你們並沒有滿嘛總共專案小組總共可以聘14個人對吧14個人現在是13個人嘛對所以你寧可空一個人在那邊你也不聘一個男性運動員也不把競技師納入這讓我們覺得很奇怪很詭異啊然後後面你的那個設置辦法"},{"start":6816.803,"end":6838.683,"text":"你這邊寫本小組自委員6到14人裡面就是只有講到女性運動員3人我怎麼沒有講男性運動員一樣啊光是設置辦法就違反性平了運動部性別平等專案小組設置要點違反性平"},{"start":6843.247,"end":6857.157,"text":"你們可能要回去討論一下啦好不好市長所以這些都不是你規劃誰規劃就是我們幕僚單位簽上來的幕僚單位簽上來的幕僚單位不是有在嗎剛剛為什麼每一個人問都說不知道"},{"start":6862.639,"end":6879.264,"text":"好 繼續啊現在運動部不是都在推那個全民運動嘛就我了解好像你們現在有一個村裡認證的運動認證的 對吧村裡的運動認證市民署的業務 是你有發現其實每一個裡的參與意願不高嗎市長你有發現嗎這個業務因為是我們全民署在推動沒關係 署長你有發現每個裡的參與意願不高嗎"},{"start":6890.308,"end":6917.74,"text":"我們還是會鼓勵你有沒有發現可是提出來申請的村里數還是蠻踴躍的啦怎麼可能我的了解不是這樣哇賽你們運動部離人民好遠喔你上網看一下我就看過了像新北市就不多我有去了解為什麼大家不想申請你知道為什麼嗎可能申請的門檻會比較高一點不是啦你今天要人家準備一大堆paperwork對不對"},{"start":6918.837,"end":6935.212,"text":"準備完之後沒有任何的獎勵就頒一個獎盃大家覺得說我幹嘛那麼累所以你這個機制有問題嘛我不知道你們是不是在模仿環境部環保局有推一個環境認證"},{"start":6937.031,"end":6953.921,"text":"以環境認證就是叫個里把它跟環保有關的比如說資收環境保護一些做法提出申請然後地方環保局也會給一個環境認證環保的三顆星 四顆星 五顆星然後會有獎勵會有獎勵所以大家就有一個正面的循環"},{"start":6955.505,"end":6983.822,"text":"很踴躍參與得到獎勵之後再把它投入環保所以整個里就感覺上就變乾淨更環保了人家是這樣做的運動部不是運動部是說你們來申請吧然後人家拿來申請的項目都是既有的項目像我知道有一個里他得到運動里認證就是因為他里內有個籃球隊他把他的既有籃球隊做成paperwork來跟你們申請你們就認證他是運動村里村里認證結果沒有給任何獎勵給一個獎盃"},{"start":6986.115,"end":7011.315,"text":"那你有辦法像那個環境部環保局一樣達到正面的循環嗎去年我們是開始試辦今年我們正式辦理之後有些相關的一個評鑑的指標謝謝委員這邊的指導不是 你第一個啦還是有一些獎勵機制因為你去年就辦過了嘛你今年沒有增加你要去瞭解原因嘛你去跟里長聊一聊說怎麼樣可以提升你這間運動風氣如果我頒這個認證的話"},{"start":7013.797,"end":7034.126,"text":"里長就會告訴你第一個你要簡便申請的流程里長都很忙為了要來申請這個東西還要準備一大堆paperwork第二就是你要獎勵機制比如說你獎勵一點給獎金然後他這個獎金又可以回饋到運動項目整個里的運動風趣就會不斷的提升"},{"start":7035.146,"end":7056.045,"text":"否則人家今年申請的隔年可能也不會想要申請了啦因為沒有什麼誘因嘛而且你這只是做表面文章嘛你沒有達到全民運動的風氣喔你現在只是做既有的禮的東西拿來申請啦現在是怎麼樣明年也是怎麼樣後年也是怎麼樣啊你沒有提升到運動風氣啊有些指標還是需要說你這邊再努力啦"},{"start":7057.086,"end":7073.304,"text":"需要很努力啦這個就是做表面文章啦這就是很表面文章的東西那我們希望運動部既然你們已經成立全民運動署全民運動署署長嘛這就是你最主要的業務啊不要做表面"},{"start":7075.085,"end":7097.893,"text":"全民就是要最接地氣要去村裡了解怎麼樣可以提升風氣需要運動部提供什麼協助這樣的機制是不是留於表面這些你都要去了解不是說只是機制定出來好像我有做事這樣子我覺得這種態度很辜負大家對於運動部的期待"},{"start":7098.653,"end":7108.545,"text":"謝謝委員的指導然後我還有一個小問題請教一下就是有關於競技 跆拳道競技參加全國賽這個可能次長回答應該跟全民運動是無關的"},{"start":7111.055,"end":7135.661,"text":"全國賽 跆拳道比賽現在規定就是男選手女選手都只能各登記一個教練只能各登記一個教練但問題是可能選手16個那他下場的時候每一個選手都比較習慣自己的教練在現場指導但是他就有很多就沒有辦法在比賽的時候參加全國比賽的時候沒有辦法有自己的教練在旁邊這個可不可以想一個彈性的做法"},{"start":7137.093,"end":7148.291,"text":"可以 我們回去討論一下你知道我在講的問題嗎的確是臨場教練有時候跟登錄的教練有些時候不是同一個人對 不是同一個人那會影響到他們在賽前就影響心情了"},{"start":7149.67,"end":7171.99,"text":"是 我覺得既然我們要讓選手在比賽的時候有最好的表現這種問題我覺得不是很困難解決的事耶比如說你用換證的方式你登記還是登記一個嘛你可以讓他換證或什麼之類這很好解決啦這困擾大家很多年了可不可以這回去幫忙想個辦法我會去請經濟室再處理一下好 謝謝謝謝葉源之源委員質詢次長請回座"},{"start":7177.031,"end":7189.955,"text":"接下來請郭育晴委員質詢謝謝主席有請次長請次長"},{"start":7196.687,"end":7210.888,"text":"委員你好次長早安我想你是做運動科學出身的所以等一下有些問題如果是屬於全民運動署就請他們來回應一點而已好 謝謝委員接下來我想要請教一下次長"},{"start":7212.21,"end":7240.435,"text":"中央其實我們尤其是運動部我們要花上千萬來做一些研究對於一些場域來做一些盤點但是到底地方有沒有跟上我們要推這個友善環境的一個同時如果地方沒有執行那麼研究跟成果這個反差這個實際的落差就會非常的大那我們來看一下這個都是運動部提供的一些資料從108年到113年我們連年都投入一些經費來做這樣子的盤點跟研究"},{"start":7241.567,"end":7269.756,"text":"但是我就用這個113年度台中的一個多功能的運動中心來說它的不合格率高達了半數以上那它的問題還是一大堆那到底我們的這些錢是改善了什麼是不是變成寫報告的一個工具行政費還是中央花了這麼多的一個規範但為什麼地方會跟不上到底是制度不夠還是地方是完全沒有執行的一個誘因"},{"start":7270.376,"end":7296.118,"text":"那中央要怎麼樣來督促地方真正的落實而不是紙上談兵做一些這樣子的一個表格或者是做一些這樣子的一個研究出來報告沒有任何的後續那後續我們還是會核定來做補助那怎麼樣來確保這個新的場館跟繼續優化的工程當中不會排除掉我們所說的特殊族群不要把他們給排除掉這個部分是不是請次長可以回答"},{"start":7296.658,"end":7316.532,"text":"可以的 這件事情是這樣子我們昨天在內部剛剛好有一個內控的機制的討論其實這個東西在我們內部既然我是性平的召集人我們會把這個個別的議題在不同的業務當中去做盤點這一件事情一定會被我們列入未來考量"},{"start":7316.912,"end":7331.828,"text":"而且是检讨的一个内容我会督促我们的业务单位在考核地方政府当中要把清楚的指标列出来不是单纯是告诉人家说你哪里有哪里没有就算了我是希望能够看到确实的改善的机制"},{"start":7332.168,"end":7360.398,"text":"我想我們中央在做計畫我們是要從做計畫改成我們要來做集合來做一些支持的後續的支援我想這個地方才會動起來那給我們運動部一些建議我覺得補助場館的一個前提其實除了建立審查的一個制度以外我們先把最低的標準什麼叫做最低的標準我們先讓無障礙設施先達標我覺得這是最基本的一個門檻把無障礙設施"},{"start":7362.018,"end":7381.611,"text":"設施作為最低的一個門檻一跨過之後我們其他才有後續嘛不然其實講再多報告或者是再多的數據其實你看這個比例上能夠用的五分是滿分問題是我們看到這張圖表上面不管是觀眾席也好輔助的一些協助的措施也好或者是設施也好全部都在一"},{"start":7382.812,"end":7403.593,"text":"這個是完全不達標的我們會持續努力來做這件事情好 那最快什麼時候可以給我一些進行的報告我們把指標什麼時候可以做出來最快這個最快什麼時候可以做出來你指的是這個評鑑的報告指標嗎指標指標 給我一些方向吧可以嗎好 我們盡快好不好因為今天時間有限"},{"start":7405.445,"end":7433.317,"text":"我們三個月可以嗎好那接下來其實我們要來討論一下這個女性運動的一個政策不能只喊平權啦不是嘴巴上講講其實真的要做到真正的一個公平那國際女性的運動政策其實都在強調這個女性運動要做到公平安心平等的參與但是台灣真正在落實的還有我們的資源分配到底有沒有到位我想女性最需要的就是友善的償管"},{"start":7434.257,"end":7461.262,"text":"專屬的一個課程專業的一個師資但是這明顯長期以來我認為是不夠的我們在想是不是我們的運動部如果將來我們要投入資源請把資源投對地方不要投錯地方比方說女性的資源其實不公平其實不只是在硬體那麼包含所謂的薪資訓練的資源教練跟行政女性上的一個比例的資格"},{"start":7462.222,"end":7478.119,"text":"其實都在結構上顯現出來它是不夠平等的那我們運動部要怎麼樣從制度面來做改革這個部分等一下請次長跟我說一下那另外就是在不同的女性的需求其實他們的差異也很大我想女性"},{"start":7478.519,"end":7495.209,"text":"有育嬰需求的像是媽媽或者是上班族她其實是很辛苦的再來引髮族的女性她是完全不同的需求但我們有沒有應對的一個配套而不是全部捅包一把抓我想這個部分我們"},{"start":7496.03,"end":7511.832,"text":"請市長來回應一下如果這三大需求比方說在育兒職場跟銀髮的部分還有在親子的課程或者是有沒有在場館加設一些比較友善的臨時的托育或者是在職場上的運動的一些支持我們有沒有這樣的一個計畫跟規劃"},{"start":7512.773,"end":7539.465,"text":"我们的确是会针对这个地方的落差因为我们也看到这个落差真的很大那我们会编列专案的方式来持续陆续的改善特别是刚刚讲比如说育儿这一件事情那么还是得跟运动场域的地方做讨论我们会编列这样子的工作指标希望他们去设所以我们的部里会有所谓的分族群的一些政策的规划是吗我们连研究上面都会针对这些族群去做特定的需求"},{"start":7540.265,"end":7558.802,"text":"了解了他們的真正的需求之後才有辦法對症下癮那我想除了規劃以外我們的資源真的要落實啦我覺得大家其實都在反映的是這件事情這也是我們成立運動部的一個最重要的宗旨那我們希望這個運動平權的事情是長期在做而且是落實的在做那第三個"},{"start":7559.102,"end":7576.248,"text":"這個部分我想要請教的就是現在高齡的運動的資源多但是問題是我們的效果到底有沒有被看到要不要整合那我舉例來說這個60歲以上其實是最愛運動的族群這個其實也是來自於我們的運動部我們在113年所做的運動現況的一個調查"},{"start":7579.249,"end":7599.145,"text":"我們看到這個年齡層有沒有發現最愛運動的其實是60歲以上喔但是問題是60歲以上的這些族群他也是醫療負擔最高的一群人喔那我想如果運動投入做得好我相信他是最省錢的公共投資次長同不同意我的說法完全同意所以是我的信仰"},{"start":7599.465,"end":7620.977,"text":"是 好 那另外我們點出了這個三大核心的問題我看到的是高齡者他可能會有所謂的慢性病他有跌倒的一個風險他甚至會有所謂的其他在場域上有不友善這樣子一個關注的一個議題所以光是在教導或者是在陪伴的這些所謂的體適能的證照的老師"},{"start":7621.877,"end":7643.216,"text":"其實它是不一定夠的喔我們有沒有針對所謂的高齡的專業的一個課程另外我們有沒有辦法去追蹤擁有所謂的中高級證照的這些指導員到底誰是真正有在服務65歲以上的這些高齡喜歡運動的人再來有證照不是等於有在教阿是"},{"start":7643.696,"end":7665.132,"text":"我們有沒有去盤點有沒有去追蹤他實際的服務量包含他的時數服務的時數服務的人次那這個部分我們要怎麼樣把真正的資源用在所謂的這些長者身上另外體育運動運動部長照其實也在做醫療也在做我們會不會各做各的都沒有整合"},{"start":7665.612,"end":7684.079,"text":"變成重複投資的一個現象不會 我們會跟衛福部一起合作這件事情我們事實上已經跟國健署有了接觸下個禮拜一我就會去拜訪他們去把這個全民健康尤其是老人的這一件事情我們會納入重點來推動好 我給我們運動部三個方向第一 我們去建立所謂的運動處方"},{"start":7685.8,"end":7703.679,"text":"建立運動處方跟轉介的一個制度然後三方剛剛講的我們可以跨部會來互通我覺得這個橫向的溝通其實也很重要然後再來我們要增加所謂的高齡或者是慢性病的運動專業指導員的認證這個目前其實我們應該也可以往這個方向去前進對不對"},{"start":7704.46,"end":7733.812,"text":"我們可以用增能的方式因為目前我們的中級國民體制能指導員已經超過一千個人它涵蓋了指導高齡者但是顯然不夠我們會增能的方式來辦理雖然你說已經有接近一千人對不對但問題是我剛剛講的要不要公開長期的追蹤包含轉介數或者是包含我們的高齡的產育的改善的比例等等這些數據還有拿的中高級的這個專業的證照的人到底有誰他服務的人次"},{"start":7734.332,"end":7752.354,"text":"然后还有他的服务的时数这个我们也要长期追踪可以吗我们来努力因为他们在个别外面职业我们没有办法直接接触他们职业的内容所以我们就只能就我们跟我们有联系的人我们去做这些追踪是可以的跟你们有联系的但我们要主动联系太多了我们"},{"start":7753.174,"end":7778.645,"text":"我们要主动联系来做盘点虽然我知道这个运动部成立初期我们真的很辛苦我们的很多你们辖下的很多的部门其实还有很多的人员没有到位这个我们都清楚但是我们往这个方向慢慢的推进因为全民运动全民健康其实是最重要的一件事情好了 次长加油好吗谢谢 谢谢委员好 谢谢主席谢谢郭益勤委员执行次长请回座"},{"start":7782.028,"end":7796.523,"text":"接下來請葛如君委員質詢好謝謝主席有請黃啟黃次長請次長"},{"start":7805.73,"end":7826.049,"text":"市長好 這次的專報內容是如何落實並持續精進運動平權在你們的報告第六頁也提到要推動身心障礙運動平權 這個我們絕對是支持那2025年的東京聽號在上禮拜三圓滿閉幕那也恭喜我們的這些非常棒的運動選手"},{"start":7827.87,"end":7850.265,"text":"還有我們大家全國一起努力收獲一金六銀六銅共13面獎牌卓院長有昨天深夜設宴款待不過明年除了有名古屋的亞運之外還有亞帕運我相信不管是選手教練還是運動部隊這個都應該是努力備戰本席想要關心的是這些選手奪牌後的榮譽問題"},{"start":7853.313,"end":7874.987,"text":"根據目前的規定奧運第一名可以拿到2000萬獎金以及國光一等一級獎章但帕運的金牌只有600萬獎金而且完全沒有獎章亞運的第一名是300萬獎金以及國光二等一級獎章而亞帕運則是90萬獎金同樣沒有獎章"},{"start":7875.948,"end":7888.279,"text":"那這個狀況我想次長應該要很了解了啦對不對那事實上根據我們的國光體育獎章及獎助金頒發辦法第二條就清楚地寫了我國運動選手參加國際運動賽會成績優良者要頒發體育獎章獎金"},{"start":7895.816,"end":7913.437,"text":"那結果身障運動員卻拿不到國光獎章難道運動部是認為參加POP OUT TEAM OUT的選手就不是運動員嗎這就不是成績優良嗎這就不是國際運動賽會嗎顯然不是嘛 對不對事實上本席知道啦目前的這個身心障礙選手"},{"start":7914.298,"end":7932.046,"text":"是適用基優身心障礙運動選手及其有功教練獎勵辦法這個次長應該知道嘛這辦法稍微有點不同給予獎勵但是既然我們今天的主題是平權所以是不是可以希望體育署升格成運動部可以改變一些既有的觀念跟做法"},{"start":7932.566,"end":7962.046,"text":"畢竟運動部都創立這個世運運動師那明明都是運動員也都是金牌都是非常國際級的最高等級的運動那身心障礙選手沒有獎章看起來好像有一點違反運動平權的理念想直接就來請教次長隨著明年亞帕運在即可不可以研議讓我們這些有奪牌的身心障礙選手也有拿國光獎章的機會讓獎章的等級當然還可以再討論可是我們可以研議一下"},{"start":7963.046,"end":7983.921,"text":"我們可以來研議好 那三個月內可不可以給我們一個報告看能不能有機會在明年十月亞帕育前我們就來通過修法 可以嗎我們在三個月內提供委員初步的一個規劃的方向好 給個報告 我們要趕快修法因為十月馬上就要來了嘛我們希望要給所有的選手一個好的一個狀態讓他們有更大的激勵 好不好"},{"start":7984.361,"end":7996.082,"text":"那本席也想向次長反映一下最近收到一個陳情是來自於游泳池協會裡面有提到救生員多年來的缺口問題我想次長應該也很理解我看您都在微笑了"},{"start":7997.903,"end":8020.831,"text":"這個是不太適合微笑但是我想也許你胸有成竹那沒關係我是苦笑苦笑啦 真的是苦笑救生員不足的問題這根本就不是新聞這幾年一到夏天我想這個標題您大概看過N百遍縮減水稻 救生員不足那裡面問題很多有考照方式 薪資福利等等"},{"start":8022.252,"end":8047.109,"text":"監察院112年就有提出過了說合格救生員數量銳減救生員延續不足這是112年報告次長 您知道我們現在112年也已經12月了兩年過去了我們本席昨天去監察院官網上看上面處理進度仍然寫著機關檢討改善情形仍需定期追蹤"},{"start":8049.22,"end":8068.686,"text":"這個機關以前是運動署現在變運動部也要追蹤更要追蹤 對吧同意嗎同意所以想請問次長監察院報告出來現在過了兩年了到底您有沒有了解這個問題運動部對這個狀況有沒有進行改善進行得如何這個確實的錯誤可不可以請我們群民署署長回答好 簡要說明 謝謝"},{"start":8070.521,"end":8093.836,"text":"報告員 監察院這邊是要我們每半年來做一次檢討跟規劃已經有四個半年囉我知道 上個禮拜我有邀請救生員學會這個部分過來一起到署裡面 針對這個議題來討論目前我們大概是建議還是公辦的一個檢定跟民間機構的一個檢定我們總共雙軌這個部分會並行所以之前是公辦"},{"start":8094.736,"end":8120.454,"text":"之前純粹是公辦之前收歸單軌所以之後有可能會回到雙軌我們現在其實就是用雙軌的一個檢定方式來進行你到底有沒有改有有要改那因為其實您提到的這個問題我也非常感謝其實你們很清楚這個狀況就是說其實這個分級制度以前可能稍微需要做一點收回變成公辦可是公辦之後其實我們看公辦檢定"},{"start":8122.175,"end":8138.349,"text":"這個公證數值結果要求很嚴格結果救生員不足這個困境其實就變成過猶不及有恐失之嘛對不對那這個你說一年可能60場公辦檢定可能不太夠那你是說以後"},{"start":8139.41,"end":8166.012,"text":"現在這個其實本來就是可以委任就是民間的單位來確保本來就雙軌啊那你這到底有沒有改我問你有沒有改你說有改改在哪裡現在其實109那個時候是維持公辦然後現在我們其實不是從去年開始是雙軌去年開始雙軌113年開始雙軌對那為什麼他還不接受呢他為什麼還是覺得你們要改進呢"},{"start":8166.713,"end":8179.226,"text":"因為現在公辦的一個檢定的場次他們也認為還太少所以我們這邊也在酌情看是不是要再做一個增加然後另外我們現在會想辦法減低就是民間機構辦理檢定相關的一些困難問題也包括有些器材他們可能對他們來講是一個負擔所以我們要用租借的方式"},{"start":8188.776,"end":8215.864,"text":"提供給他們來做一個使用這民眾的安全這個第一優先好不好尤其我想您剛剛提到有些問題檢定還是要嚴格確實是 對就是一鬆一緊之間都不能說太過其實還有一個縣市可能檢定場地不足的問題譬如說現在可能就是新竹雲林嘉義等等今年其實會不會有沒有可以調整的空間"},{"start":8217.881,"end":8241.29,"text":"尝试不足的部分我们这边都可以来跟执行小组这边来联系可以随时来支援这没问题好那另外也随着这个运动部导入各项的科技措施AI防疫系统也是改善汉式的一环那我们现在算冬天冬天游泳也很棒夏天那更不用讲所以我想这个客线是来导入结果我们发现"},{"start":8242.45,"end":8264.99,"text":"這個本席了解部分的運動部有補助這個也是予以感謝但是只補助了三件去裝設這個AI防逆的系統台中、新北、高雄這個我們也是幫大家來問一下民眾安全第一優先可不可以增加多一點的機制或者是配套來因應現階段救生員不足的問題多一點防逆系統這有沒有機會"},{"start":8265.911,"end":8294.289,"text":"我們可以朝這方向來努力多一點是沒有問題的只是這個系統是輔助系統它沒有辦法完全替代救生員市長講得很好絕對沒有人要替代救生員因為你救生員不足我們救生員也要增加專業訓練也提高AI防疫也增加這樣民眾有更好的保障這沒有問題沒有人在講替代的問題謝謝市長最後想跟市長談到運動資料的授權跟應用"},{"start":8295.029,"end":8321.375,"text":"本席上週跟運動部的夜報的時候聽到在夜報當中我們質詢有提醒李洋部長有一個正向的交流就是說隨著科技的推動一定要注意資料收集和數據的應用還有資安的保障這是一定的過去體育署有很多運動賽事是透過標案的方式透過委託民間單位去執行這個次長一定很了解是"},{"start":8321.815,"end":8326.259,"text":"那這些賽事的相關記錄資訊數據 影像 經驗 數值理論上都在委辦單位手上"},{"start":8331.468,"end":8352.027,"text":"有在運動部嗎目前還沒有對很好謝謝市長這些資料我們都希望要呼籲說其實是政府出錢的就應該是政府的數位資產這也是我們要去努力的方向因為我們將會把這個資料的管理收回到我們的運動產業中心來做管理Public money public knowledge"},{"start":8352.608,"end":8366.419,"text":"公眾的錢就是公眾的權所以運動部應該要掌握這些資料所以隨著運動產業發展中心有建立了我想這個次長您是最清楚的因為您就業管這個運產中心對不對"},{"start":8369.281,"end":8385.101,"text":"那未來呢那本來你們就是在負責運動產業之調查統計及研究發展所以謝謝我在提到這個議題的時候您胸有成竹我很感動也很感謝所以市長您業管運產中心未來可不可以讓運產中心有一個"},{"start":8385.922,"end":8412.41,"text":"把這些委外辦理的賽事相關的資訊 影像 數據未來說不定我們做運科的分析這些都是很重要的越早收集越好市長可不可以研議一下做法上可以透過在標案當中續名未來的這些所有我們委外的民營民間的比賽有相關數據資料可以收集的要續名資料所有權是政府"},{"start":8412.89,"end":8434.008,"text":"然後統一要提供給行政法人運產中心做管理那相關可能要有一些文件、法規、合約範本、系統、軟硬體、人力等等的配套那這個我們是支持的喔那這個運動部等於成立部了你們就可以掌握這些散落在外的資料這個可不可以確保一下"},{"start":8434.508,"end":8459.563,"text":"一定會往這邊來走因為現階段我們已經開發出來一個動態的知情同意的系統也就是除了他一開始同意他還有權利假設某一天他認為不要了他可以制止我們就有機制把他的資料給排除在外不再繼續使用這個麻煩研議一下那我最後借主席十秒鐘二十秒鐘就是說我們現在看未來我也爭取一下過去好不好這個也幫我研議一下第一個"},{"start":8461.504,"end":8483.874,"text":"這個帕奧 聽奧或者是我們其他的這些過去沒有獎章的如果未來有了我們可不可以研究一下朔極既往的 補發給他因為這個平權嘛 這個第一點第二點 過去的運動賽事如果有數據的 還來得及的 執行到一半嘛那我可不可以用補充合約的方式把數據也拉回來"},{"start":8485.555,"end":8506.805,"text":"這兩點可不可以請次長稍微研議一下看一個月兩個月內可不可以回覆給我們就是不只看未來看過去這樣子我們來研議看看特別是資料的部分因為有些賽事已經過去了我們不太容易拿到當時參與者的資金同意那沒有他的資金同意理論上我們就不可以用他的資料這個很務實那這個獎章的部分可不可以研議一下回溯的部分"},{"start":8507.185,"end":8516.607,"text":"在那個獎章的部分研議報告裡面要有回溯的可能性這樣好不好可以嗎好謝謝次長謝謝主席謝謝葛如君委員質詢次長請回座接下來請張雅琳委員質詢我們在雅琳委員質詢之後休息五分鐘"},{"start":8538.54,"end":8540.954,"text":"谢谢主席我们有请次长请黄次长"},{"start":8547.922,"end":8570.909,"text":"市長好我想今天我們在討論有關於運動平權的討論是非常有意義的因為今天也是國際身心障礙日所以接下來我們的討論也會從這個地方開始請教市長就是說我們今年開始有了四印運動司我們也提出了地方政府推展四印運動計畫"},{"start":8572.95,"end":8583.238,"text":"那但是呢有一個很大的問題是我們的KPI補助設定是在20萬操作是要到這個KPI是100人到249人"},{"start":8587.028,"end":8613.206,"text":"我這樣子這個應該都是正確的資訊嘛對不對這部分都正確好那我想請教在這樣子的一個KPI之下我們會不會特別只有Promote到某一種障礙的運動呢應該不可以只限定某一個障礙因為它必須是不是是你現在的一個設定上面最後就可能只能Promote某一種障礙為什麼我這麼說"},{"start":8616.328,"end":8629.601,"text":"因為事實上障礙別非常落差非常的大對不對自閉症也是一種身心障礙也是一種腦麻也是一種他們的障礙他們的需求需要的陪伴整個設施環境場地的應變"},{"start":8630.842,"end":8656.073,"text":"都落差非常的大耶但是你今天設定100人到249人就是20萬的話那是不是我需要資源越大的運動例如像是腦麻孩子的運動肢體障礙者的運動它一定會被排除啊因為相對來說我沒有辦法得到足夠的資源嘛那最後我就會選擇這些可能是自閉症的孩子自閉症的一些相關運動上面我就會覺得說好聽障的我們可以多辦"},{"start":8657.213,"end":8685.187,"text":"那最后不就偏移了吗因为现在是你的KPI的设定上面会造成某些障碍类型的选手或是民众他是永远无法参与的谢谢委员的提醒这的确是沿用过去运动爱台湾的一个方式但是我们现在要推的方向是共融的也就是我们推出来的活动的本身是可以适合不同类型的障碍别一起来参与所以我们不会希望只读后某一种障碍别"},{"start":8685.287,"end":8714.31,"text":"我懂目標是這樣可是KPI這樣設定最後就會找成便宜的結果啦因為我自己在民間過去我們也辦了非常多兒童參與式設計嘛那我們也有邀請肢體障礙腦麻聽障自閉的孩子都一起來加入嘛所以我非常深切的去了解到不同樣的孩子他所需要的支持是非常非常落差非常大的所以這個資源如果說今天我們算是要共融那你今天20萬可能某種程度你只能你有說你一定要融幾項嗎也沒有嘛對不對"},{"start":8714.99,"end":8730.246,"text":"只要有龍就算了嘛所以我是不是只要有龍字臂龍聽障就好了我不用龍肢體障礙啊所以我就說你這個KPI設定是有問題的啊所以是不是可以再去修正這個KPI的方式一定可以一定可以因為這樣子我們才能夠去確保說不會有人因此而被排擠嘛是"},{"start":8730.646,"end":8743.962,"text":"好不好這是私營運動最重要我們就是希望讓更多種不同的障礙類型的民眾都可以加入我們推廣的目的是這樣那我們就應該執行的做法KPI的設定都要能夠回應這件事情好那再來下一個問題"},{"start":8745.703,"end":8762.676,"text":"是有關於性別平權好 一樣回來講一下足球足球我們現在在學校組我們今天就以少年杯跟學童杯來看市長應該很清楚的可以看到男女生的人數喔 懸差非常非常大耶"},{"start":8764.276,"end":8790.105,"text":"那我們現在女足的成績其實蠻好的對不對我們在世界上成績蠻好的可是我們這是大專我們光這是少年盃學童盃到大專盃更淒慘耶大專盃我們現在這個女生的賽事呢基本上非常有限然後她還是在一個非常不利的位置所以我想要問一下我們到底要如何來提升女性足球員我們的做法到底是什麼"},{"start":8792.738,"end":8812.474,"text":"這個是一個很難回答的問題因為它是個系統性的我們會努力的去支持女性的運動因為組隊在地方組隊在學校會不會有人去參與我們要努力的是掃除或減少它的障礙至於到底有多少隊可以來報名說實話我"},{"start":8815.778,"end":8832.877,"text":"我想因為我們要推廣一個運動都應該是要我們的技術總監 足協技術總監應該要對整件事情有一個全面的想法因為今年剛好我有一些事情也是有跟足協在溝通但是我們的做法都並不是真的去Promote女性的足球員的運動所以我想這個部分"},{"start":8833.718,"end":8852.453,"text":"是不是可以來去跟足協好好的討論這是第一個部分那第二個呢我們可不可以借鏡國外我有幾個建議就是說我們現在從國際的經驗都有一個制度性的解方從澳洲跟美國他們都有去透過相關的法令針對女性編族相關的發展預算"},{"start":8852.873,"end":8874.869,"text":"所以从预算上面去支持不要去假装男女都是平等因为我们在女性真的在运动场上有结构性的弱势特别是到青少年时期就会有整个大断层会出现所以我们没有相关的一些赛制上面去支持她们那这个就会从预算上面要来支持所以我们是不是可以确保我们在不管是大专联赛中学的"},{"start":8875.569,"end":8903.924,"text":"足球聯賽或是基層我們有支持的賽事我們都可以確保其中有固定的比例經費要來去支持女生組一定會這個樣子這也是我們繼續要努力的一個方向我在內部討論的時候有跟我們的業務同仁討論到我們一定要去縮短這樣子的一個落差這是一個很清楚的一個政策方向那我希望就是這個預算的編列是不是也可以提供給我們你們大概要怎麼用從什麼樣子的方向來去編是多少的比例"},{"start":8904.924,"end":8930.638,"text":"那這個大概是什麼時候可以提供給我們讓我們知道你們的一個方向規劃因為我們現在只能規劃因為預算已經編出去了我們只是在未來執行端我們可以主導的部分我們一定會想盡辦法去縮短你預算編出去可是你預算編出去可以設定裡面有多少比例嘛 對不對所以多少比例這個是你們大概現在有討論了嗎還是還沒有討論比例的百分比還沒有討論出來那這個大概什麼時候可以討論出來給我們呢讓我們知道有多少的比例"},{"start":8931.218,"end":8955.691,"text":"实际参与的状况因为如果参与的现阶段的人数不多我们如果编太多也不是很好但是反过来我们要先了解一下实行的状况我们一定会想尽办法去缩短这样的落差那这样子好不好一个建议盘点一下这几年其实我们都有女生组的赛事我们到底投资了我们盘点一下我们过去放在女生组的资源到底是多少比例经费上面到底是多少这可以去了解"},{"start":8955.851,"end":8970.809,"text":"我們從這裡面去了解之後我們再來看看未來我們要如何去Promote嘛 對不對好 那這個盤點大概什麼時候可以給我應該是我們主辦的賽事啊對 你們主辦的賽事啊你們主辦的賽事啊什麼時候可以盤點給我"},{"start":8974.366,"end":8990.666,"text":"包委員可不可以近兩年的近兩年OK 我沒有問題近兩年OK那什麼時候兩個禮拜一個月好 那就一個月那抱歉補一下KPI的部分重新設定這個部分什麼時候可以給我們不然你這個就要下去了"},{"start":8991.387,"end":9002.998,"text":"我們馬上會去處理這件事情好不好因為這個的確是KPI需要調整一下但是它應該要跟縣市政府去討論所以要有結果可能不會那麼快但是我們會立刻去做這樣的事情對 那這大概什麼時候因為你們討論也要時間但是什麼時候可以讓我們知道嗎"},{"start":9009.52,"end":9026.718,"text":"現階段我們市長是說已經公告但是我們再去調整看看再去討論看看可以討論的範圍還是要給我個時間嘛我怎麼知道你要討論多久一個月一個月好 我一個月之後都會去追這些事情好 那再來一個下來就是協會的良善治理一樣是從足協的角度來看"},{"start":9027.759,"end":9054.351,"text":"就是說前陣子呢我其實也有諮詢這個我們的鄭士東次長就是我們對於足協我們都希望良善治理那也有提供了一些說法是什麼電子金流啊但是我其實有發現一個非常實務上面的問題抱歉再接點時間我們現在這個表是我們去做實地訪評的流程表可以看到總共的時間大概只有兩個小時左右最後加個座談了不起三個小時三個小時"},{"start":9055.712,"end":9068.453,"text":"我們能看到什麼我們大學的訪評是多久高校評鑑最少一天有些是要兩天看性質如果是完整的高校評鑑要兩天的時間"},{"start":9070.838,"end":9085.029,"text":"可能還會更長喔可能齁這邊高教平間我這邊所知的他前半段的輔導會很長對實地訪評兩天對可是我們現在基本上我們實地訪評跟參閱資料跟座談就三小時"},{"start":9086.15,"end":9110.258,"text":"所以這才會造成是說我們有很多的資料看不出來因為你大概只能去做格式只能去看看說這個選訊文件有沒有問題大概只能做這些事情所以上次監察院提出來的這個財務選訊是否不公等等是看不出來的所以我認為這都不是一天可以解決的問題我們現在的訪評機制應該要調整才對目前正在調整當中那我們是目前會往哪個方向來調整呢"},{"start":9110.498,"end":9133.348,"text":"我們會朝著頻率增加我們會把財務的集合拉出來我們會把財務拉出來另外去做我們會加強輔導也就是說我們在未來的指標我們去重新訂定因為以前的指標陳如委員現在所看到的確非常的表面時間很短我們會去另訂指標根據過去所發生過的狀況我們會訂出明確的指標"},{"start":9136.629,"end":9158.98,"text":"到時候我們去訪試的時候就會針對這些指標去做訪查然後訪查結果之後再反過來另外一端的輔導要求他們那個量沒做好的讓他去改善也就是輔導跟訪評其實是一個連續性的過程而且是持續永遠不會停止的一個過程了解 所以這個看起來已經有在討論大概什麼時候可以給我們初步的規劃呢"},{"start":9160.424,"end":9171.618,"text":"你們現在是預計什麼我們年底以前就會完成年底以前就會完成是因為明年就要開始執行對喔 我要講喔因為其實現在協會根本不怕你們來仿拼啦坦白說因為拼得不好補助還是可以照拿"},{"start":9173.621,"end":9191.782,"text":"所以因為他們現在的一個規劃之下他非常能輕鬆就可以過關了而且他可以告訴你嘛如果你真的把他砍經費了他就說那這樣子是運動部不支持所以我們才沒辦法所以我覺得我們不要漏入這樣子的一個狀況我第二個建議是說我們可不可以呢鼓勵好的協會但是也"},{"start":9192.963,"end":9208.411,"text":"給這些不好的協會也要有一些相對的一些要求跟資源上面的差異也就是說我們是不是可以提供單向協會類似一種競爭型計畫的方向你確實朝這方向來努力沒錯競爭型那最後第三個建議抱歉再借點時間"},{"start":9209.491,"end":9235.848,"text":"就是說其實我們在很多的政策領域上面審查的時候都有公民團體來加入所以我們現在是不是在協會的審查跟訪評上面也可以加入公民團體呢而且保障一定的比例確保民眾的公民團體用一種更客觀跟中立的方式來去查出問題因為查出問題其實也不是要刁難協會而是要幫助協會能夠良善治理我們是不是可以朝這個方向來前進呢"},{"start":9236.468,"end":9256.879,"text":"我們可以朝這方向來努力思考看看因為我們這件事情過去過去是交由台灣平健協會幫我們做這樣的事情我們把這樣的建議跟他們做溝通如果可行可以找到適當的人我們不會去反對我想我們應該要建立其實民間都有一些團體我想次長也都知道我們是不是就是往這個方向來前進因為其實並不是只有運動部有這樣子的委員"},{"start":9259.34,"end":9282.914,"text":"就是这样的审查机制嘛其实其他都有既然其他的单位都可以加入公民的意见公民的审查机制我认为我们也要这样子的方向来做而且呢要设定一定的比例也就是说不能够我自己挑选每次都不挑公民团体是了解可以吗了解市长可以承诺可以好谢谢谢谢亚林委员质询市长请回座我们休息五分钟"},{"start":9292.489,"end":9292.57,"text":"谢谢大家"},{"start":9588.322,"end":9589.903,"text":"我們繼續開會接下來請范雲委員質詢感謝昭緯有請次長請黃次長"},{"start":9603.206,"end":9626.952,"text":"餵你好次長好我想我今天主要是要跟您討論我們杭州的亞帕運台灣選手真的是為國爭光我們可以看到這些不管是金牌銀牌的有非常好的成績但是今天我們的主題是運動平權所以我就想問就是除了性別等平權之外"},{"start":9627.552,"end":9644.433,"text":"障礙者到底有沒有一個平權相較於我們的怕運的成績你可以看一下台灣的障礙者想要去運動被拒絕的案例層出不窮我們隨便搜尋一下就看到就是"},{"start":9645.134,"end":9660.341,"text":"台北運動中心不友善輪椅足難健身身障者運動進場就被拒那還有就是汐止的運動場被控他以輪椅足會破壞場地為由拒絕身障者入場"},{"start":9661.261,"end":9687.131,"text":"我想請問次長您今天應該是有備而來嗎因為主題已經告訴您了運動部成立的時候標舉運動平權請問您知不知道全國有多少公立的運動中心有無障礙設施各場館讓障礙者使用的設備有哪些呢次長不曉得有沒有準備這個資料確實的數字我沒有但是我知道不高"},{"start":9687.793,"end":9703.712,"text":"不高是一半还是不到一半那各场馆有障碍者使用的设备有哪些您知不知道更少那我办公室去整理了资料这个都是根据审计部跟体育署的委托研究案"},{"start":9705.914,"end":9724.452,"text":"100個運動中心有48個完全沒有任何的無障礙幾乎就是一半了跟輔具26座直棒籃球跟排球主要場館13座場館也是一半沒有無障礙通道也沒有視障者引導設施輪椅連觀眾席連去看都不足了更何況"},{"start":9728.616,"end":9749.097,"text":"下场那13座综合型场馆没有无障碍厕所也没有视障者引导轮椅观众席跟无障碍机车停车位都不足简直是连接近这个场馆去当个观众都不足所以这个是不是离运动平权还很远次长非常的远"},{"start":9750.718,"end":9770.274,"text":"我想我們應該要從經驗相近但比我們好的國家我們的經濟奇蹟都已經說超越日本了我們看一下日本它的口號已經是從復健到共融共融這個字眼我們現在只有在兒童的遊戲提到共融"},{"start":9772.016,"end":9785.085,"text":"1964年東京帕運當時身障運動是被當成是醫療復健讓傷兵病患恢復功能可是人家在2011年修正運動基本法的時候"},{"start":9786.383,"end":9814.739,"text":"就把運動權入法指出運動是所有國民國民當然包含身障者而且是權力不是社會福利所以主管機關不是衛福部就是你運動部而且要提的事情是現在身障者老人家很高的比例就是身障者統計上還沒有放在身障者東京怕運就走入了前面2011年是運動基本法東京怕運走入共融"},{"start":9815.319,"end":9828.609,"text":"無障礙心靈通用設計那日本他們喊出的KPI是什麼他們的體育廳就是我們的運動部嘛成人間身障者每週運動一次的比例要達到40%耶"},{"start":9831.331,"end":9846.182,"text":"可是台灣不用算每週一次了衛福部自己的調查台灣只有16%的身心障礙者有選擇體育作為休閒活動有超過八成的人連運動都沒有運動"},{"start":9848.924,"end":9866.792,"text":"所以障碍者遇到什么问题这是有人做的硕士论文以台北市为例台北市应该是要设施最好吧有位说我不敢进去因为我不知道自己进去是对或不对他连自己有没有权利进去都不敢"},{"start":9867.412,"end":9893.266,"text":"另外一个说他去游泳救生员也不会特别的告诉你说操作面他觉得这是每个人与人之间的禁忌救生员也会担心说如果问你的话会不会触犯到你救生员也没有这样的训练我拿轮椅过去给他看他还是不愿意借我们还是不接受非常的排斥歧视然后这个身上者说我没有影响力是小小一个小市民"},{"start":9893.726,"end":9908.318,"text":"你可以看到身心障礙者不敢過去覺得自己沒有這個權利然後去了之後還被歧視那或者是對方害怕跟你討論怎麼協助你所以問題很大可是你看一下日本"},{"start":9909.199,"end":9935.53,"text":"接待手冊有官方的2019年就頒布運動場館身障者接待手冊一不能拒絕入場二地板保護對策教導管理員要準備輪椅輪胎套或擦拭布協助輪椅如果套上輪胎套就沒有場地受傷害的問題如果輪椅的輪胎髒了也是可以擦乾淨"},{"start":9936.69,"end":9961.846,"text":"還有溝通輔具有筆談板簡易溝通圖卡所以面對到視障者或者是各種障礙者都能夠溝通這個是有手冊的因為今天時間有限我就具體既然我們運動部是成立了標舉運動平權我們臺灣障礙青年協會已經提醒我們光有紙本的手冊是不夠的"},{"start":9962.927,"end":9990.439,"text":"因为第一线的管理人员会因为不理解他也不是故意的他就是不了解就先拒绝所以我对运动部今天有两个要求第一个日本已经把手册制定出来了我们是不是可以参考日本制定的接待手册报告委员目前这个部分已经在努力了还没做完正在拟定了这个手册正在拟定当中什么时候会出来给我们教文委员一个答案好吗"},{"start":9992.398,"end":10015.915,"text":"有多久可以做出來因為我在讀資料的時候他們的確是說我們要把它開始去制定但是時間那時間今天您是次長有這個權限今天是運動平權是不是告訴我們那個什麼時候可以出來我們這樣好不好我們半年把它做出來因為同一個時間還要去做培訓半年做出手冊那是不是給我們教文委員一人一本好嗎讓我們看一下"},{"start":10016.676,"end":10041.485,"text":"那也要培訓第一線人員好不好那多久內可以培訓我們手冊出來之後我們會規劃期程來培訓可不可以一年內培訓完第一線工作人員給你手冊完之後一年的時間有沒有辦法全部的人都接受訓練我不敢保證但是我們一定會努力去到各縣市去辦理這樣的培訓至少辦完第一次各縣市的培訓好不好"},{"start":10042.125,"end":10057.87,"text":"一定會去就是半年內手冊出來之後一年內辦完第一次全國各縣市的培訓謝謝次長第二個很重要其他部會像我們面對故宮他都已經建立身心障礙者的權益小組"},{"start":10058.69,"end":10077.852,"text":"邀集一半以上的身障者代表定期召開會議那在這個會議中制定KPI像我們看到日本的體育廳他的KPI是身障者每週要運動一次的比例要達到40%那我們台灣也不用照抄我們就讓你們"},{"start":10079.413,"end":10094.378,"text":"體育運動部的成立這個身心障礙權益小組邀集身障者定期開會然後制定出經過詳細的討論制定出KPI這個可以做到嗎可以 我們目前有成立一個平權工作小組"},{"start":10094.858,"end":10120.875,"text":"我看了你们的网站上空空的没有任何内容还没有开这是事实人权有很多范围懂人权的未必懂身障权益所以我们是平权工作小组包含了人权跟障碍因素你是不是可以更具体因为我知道的性别专家就不一定懂身障权益是不是身障者权益可以有一个小组好不好我们在这个平权里面会分小组去讨论个别的议题"},{"start":10121.175,"end":10148.424,"text":"那生長權益的小組多久之內可以組成呢先組成吧召開第一次會議我們一個月內一個月內就組成那要有一半以上的生長者因為平權的工作小組要先有下設不同的那一個月內也把書面資料給本席好嗎好 謝謝次長 一起加油謝謝"},{"start":10151.297,"end":10166.058,"text":"謝謝范雲委員質詢 次長請回座接下來請林一錦委員質詢謝主席 有請黃次長請黃次長"},{"start":10172.341,"end":10189.637,"text":"先生好今天主題談的是運動平權那我在運動部的明年度的預算書有看到我們有提及非常多關於適應運動的輔助跟規劃所以今天就要來跟您探討先跟您探討這個那比如說"},{"start":10191.098,"end":10199.887,"text":"有與醫療院所合作成立示範社區中心或者是充實地方資源中心適應運動的器材設備還有輔導民間團體推動科技適應運動輔助器材設備應用等等"},{"start":10207.594,"end":10226.362,"text":"那我剛列舉這三項其實都是非常浩大的工程那甚至我們一定要跟地方的體育局或者地方政府體育局或者地方政府的教育局來演繹 密切的演繹合作方案那才能把這個試運運動的器材跟人力深入社區"},{"start":10227.663,"end":10247.588,"text":"所以我想能不能請次長說明一下運動部將來 再來會怎麼樣跟地方政府做共同推動讓這個適應運動可以照顧到各種需求的民眾首先是跟醫療端那個地方因為我們希望能夠在醫療端初步的醫師診斷完之後我們有一個嫁接的過程"},{"start":10248.548,"end":10263.595,"text":"我们希望这一群有障碍的但是还是有一些医疗状况了经过医师诊治之后供我一个嫁接所以我们透过运动来让他更健康这是第一个地方第二个地方是属于设备研究的部分我们会去规划这样的研究主题"},{"start":10264.235,"end":10280.085,"text":"我们透过运科中心去设定这样子的研究主题去开发一些设备同一个时间我们会跟地方政府讨论因为很多的运动中心管理权都在地方我们必须要跟他合作去设置我们甚至有去考虑到是不是要设置某一部分的专款"},{"start":10280.865,"end":10298.505,"text":"用租借的方式也好因為早期還沒有那麼多的設備用租借的方式可以落實到地方去我們必須要跟地方政府合作去討論因為多數的運動中心都已經委外委外單位願不願意去做這件事情我們要透過另外一種鼓勵的機制讓他願意做"},{"start":10299.306,"end":10322.163,"text":"所以其实已经有在跟地方政府做这些密切合作的过程好那我想请教就是说那我们有如何啦因为其实运科陷入到刚刚你谈的医疗也好或者是一些科技研发也好就是说我们要跟国科会卫福部就是来合作对那这个合作的过程现在目前都很顺利"},{"start":10322.924,"end":10345.978,"text":"跟國科會這個地方是因為國科會是以研究為基礎就是拿他的技術我們目前正在研議運科2.0的計畫我們就希望把它的一些研發出來的技術跟工具引用到我們的產業裡面來這是我們跟國科會之間的一個合作跟衛福部這個地方我們下個禮拜就會再去一次衛福部跟他們討論後續有關於共同推動"},{"start":10347.506,"end":10368.584,"text":"不同類型的運動處境的方式來處理不單單只是障礙類別了解所以您看因為市長你以前就是運科中心的執行長所以你這個是你的專業就是說你覺得有哪些可以運用到訓練選手的運科技術適合從專業走向普及化人家會更多的廣大民眾"},{"start":10369.505,"end":10392.973,"text":"競技运动的需求非常的细腻相对的洋贵我们的目标是把这个细腻高价格的东西把它当grade也就是让它稍微的低阶一点点它可以用到全民去所以我们在尝试的去用一些可以简单的设备就可以比如说用脚踏车来讲它就可以清楚的算出来你现在踩踏的过程是不是多数在燃烧脂肪"},{"start":10393.573,"end":10418.267,"text":"因為肥胖是我們某種狀況我們會希望針對降低脂肪這件事情讓它做有效的運動那這個東西是對所有的人只是對於障礙者而言他的腳踏車可能就不是腳踏車了他很可能要改成手那他的計算方式可能要重來了解所以這種東西都是一個過程那障礙類型的研究將會是我們未來制定必須要做的一個主題好"},{"start":10419.948,"end":10433.98,"text":"除了我們持續推動運動平權以外運動部成立的另一個很大的重點就是要讓我們的運動產業達到成熟的發展運動產業的發展其實涉及很多跨部會的合作"},{"start":10434.7,"end":10451.276,"text":"再來我就是要跟次長來討論電競產業這個議題因為在運動部成立之前本席向文策院做過相關的質詢電子競技作為遊戲開發代理銷售所衍生產業的其中一環除了涉及我們選手的培育以外"},{"start":10451.596,"end":10463.985,"text":"它背後的商業價值非常非常龐大那台灣電競協會的理事長施文斌之前有到立法院來參加體育署深隔層體育部的公聽會他就有指出他說電競產業規模龐大那選手培育占了整體產業5%而已另外95%就是賽事的企劃實況轉播包括跨領域的集合"},{"start":10473.211,"end":10489.148,"text":"那所以黃市長你當時就在那個公聽會上在那個施理事長旁邊因為你是體育大學副校長那好那我想要請教市長說那除了過去體育署對選手支持跟賠利的這種就有工作外運動部如今要對運動產業的發展"},{"start":10491.43,"end":10520.315,"text":"你是否已经有比较明确的蓝图那我想是这样因为今天时间有限过去体育署它对于产业这个是比较少在委员会做阐述那我以刚刚的电竞产业为例那想要请市长说明你现在目前你了解了运动部做了哪些规划我们最针对电竞这件事情我们应该在下个月吧就可以把电竞产业发展的一个方向的政策书书面已经可以做出来是"},{"start":10520.595,"end":10543.591,"text":"因为它除了竞技以外它其实背后有大量的产业在后面运动部的角色就是要让我们的产业能够除了活下来之外还可以发扬可以长得更大长大了以后才有更多的专业人才投入到里面去它是一个正向的经济循环我们潮的方向就是这个样子我们的努力的方向就是要让一些新创有机会重活下来"},{"start":10544.051,"end":10558.591,"text":"否則新創就沒了後面也沒有了所以我們的方向是會支持新創努力去創造一些更多的產業發展的機會好那再來最後我要跟您關心一下就是明年3月世界棒球經典賽的備戰情況"},{"start":10560.633,"end":10578.166,"text":"近幾年其實我們跟棒協還有這個職棒聯盟的合作之下其實我們國家棒球隊其實是越來越亮眼那台灣隊在國際上已經不再吃鍋貼那個政府的支持當然非常重要我們不能只仰靠聯盟的各球團所以這個那我們好"},{"start":10580.868,"end":10602.027,"text":"那2023世界棒球經典賽當時體育署就有補助4500萬來協助代表隊來組訓或勤收那經典賽過後我說2023那聯盟就有提出一級賽事國家隊的這個精進計畫那體育署那個時候也從善如流有核定了四年期1600萬的這個補助"},{"start":10604.429,"end":10630.387,"text":"那這個計畫是2024世界棒球十二強賽季2026世界棒球經典賽國家隊培訓精進計畫那這個當然也是用來勤收跟辦理國際交流賽等等那2024的十二強體育署也有專案補助這個棒球聯盟來主訓就有2500萬的主訓費用跟勤收1300萬的經費那我們也全額補助選手的保險"},{"start":10631.367,"end":10652.453,"text":"我們接下來三個月就是我們棒球的最高殿堂就是經典賽不曉得我們運動部針對2026的世界棒球經典賽我們會有怎樣的補助計畫我們禽獸的部分持續了之後目前是規劃已經要補助到1600萬去做禽獸的工作因為禽獸一定要做好"},{"start":10653.033,"end":10668.984,"text":"至於訓練上面在今年的8月11號蔡會長跟總教練就已經有到現場到國訓中心的棒子場國訓中心的棒子場現在除了場地好之外我們也有非常好的一個禽獸的系統在那邊包括它的那個牛棚甚至都可以調整"},{"start":10670.017,"end":10696.328,"text":"就是投手的出手角度那个东西当时是因为我们公子机长本身是投手教练所以他特别知道我们在科技上面因为科技的人也不懂运动我们特别跟他他跟我们讲说一定要多少次的镜头可以清楚地看到放手点他可以去调整投手的动作所以我们可以去设计球路我们同一个时间应该在下个礼拜我们的发球机自己做的台湾研发的发球机将会"},{"start":10697.108,"end":10711.313,"text":"完成第一個階段我們可以把我們收到的資訊模擬出任何一個投手的球路讓我們球員來打好 因為那個你提到這個發球機因為那個大聯盟這個球隊有廣泛引進這個"},{"start":10714.315,"end":10732.873,"text":"这种智慧发球机那他会透过真实的这个投球的把投手的投球影片跟数据来模拟这个来让打者的训练跟接近实战那这个有没有可能目前我们来台湾报告马上要做的我们自己开发的台湾自己开发的跟这个"},{"start":10733.533,"end":10760.777,"text":"很接近 還沒有人的形象但是它的發球出來的結果已經是一樣了我們目前規劃明年的後半年可以把投手的影像跟這個發球機的出手角度同時嫁接在一起所以你這個我們自己研發這個發球機就是說我們可以設定大股商品它的這個發球的這個角度發球的速度只要從StatCast上面收到它的所轉述的資料我們就可以模擬出它同樣的球路好"},{"start":10762.658,"end":10778.803,"text":"我們希望這個能拿到好成績可是我們的訓練跟運動部的投資我覺得也是息息相關所以要請運動部在經費上要多多支持因為它畢竟是我們的國家代表隊好 謝謝 謝謝市長謝謝主席謝謝林怡婧委員質詢市長請回座接下來請伍麗花委員質詢"},{"start":10798.939,"end":10800.064,"text":"謝謝主席 有請次長請黃次長"},{"start":10806.614,"end":10829.566,"text":"市長好上次運動部來這個地方做業務報告那我有特別提到就是對於運動平權的部分著墨比較少所以今天專報的部分特別安排運動平權那我想就一些精進的部分再來去做一些訴求那上次我講的時候是提到城鄉"},{"start":10831.407,"end":10852.58,"text":"運動資源的落差我想這個部分其實平權還不僅僅是如此包括像是今天大家談到的身心障礙者或者是性平的部分又或者是我比較關心的是說因為這種運動它是有一點像金字塔"},{"start":10853.36,"end":10872.478,"text":"就是能够顶尖的大概就是那么1%但是它越底层其实人数越多所以我们需要关照的这些运动员的权益其实是面向很广的那以我们来举这个目前产业环境最好的"},{"start":10873.058,"end":10888.076,"text":"大概就是现在我们看就是职棒但是我们可以看到他这个部分他的成绩啊他的人数啊就是他在金字塔顶端跟下层的其实差距是非常的大"},{"start":10888.777,"end":10908.676,"text":"他们之间的资源落差也很大光是看职棒的话他们的薪资条件或者是他们的食衣住行各方面条件其实落差也是很大更何况是其他的职业那另外呢就是像其他我们看到职业的运动员他没有适用劳基法"},{"start":10909.537,"end":10938.485,"text":"所以他的勞動權利不管是教練 球員 裁判其實如果遇到一些勞資糾紛就很難用法律一般的途徑來保障他們的權益所以我這個部分就是特別希望說運動部也能夠一起來關心那我舉個例子像我在TRE上面看到有一個曾經參加過巴黎奧運田徑的這個運動員他說他在國訓中心待了八年"},{"start":10939.165,"end":10966.952,"text":"那國訓中心每年只能夠給12天的假但是他因為要訓練也不方便請假所以他8年以來他請的試假不到20天可是如果用勞基法來看的話8年可以請111天所以這個部分我覺得都是我們需要去關懷我們的運動員那在這裡就是我覺得在他們的這個勞資"},{"start":10968.732,"end":10994.233,"text":"方面也是很難跟知番去談他們是很弱勢的一群所以像這種一次簽約一年的這種制度那我覺得就是很多的球員他從小就是離家我看到我們很多來自原鄉的球員他就是到台中 高雄 桃園 台北那麼小的年紀就因為參加了什麼球隊"},{"start":10995.234,"end":11020.77,"text":"他就要這樣子離瞎背景那他們背負的家庭的這種對他們的期望然後他們慢慢長大真的有一份球隊的工作心智不穩然後退役也沒有保障如果真的遇到職災了可能自認倒楣然後他們的勞動的身分很模糊所以他們是在整個體育產業中非常脆弱的一環那另外就是也提到"},{"start":11021.63,"end":11044.735,"text":"如果說延續到未來的政策也是很不平等因為我們的政策每一次我們看到的這些就業輔導辦法或補助辦法都是針對基優頂尖的選手可是畢竟我們沒有那麼多的基優選手可以去照顧那大部分的我們就沒有辦法照顧到所以我覺得這是一個循環"},{"start":11045.595,"end":11060.886,"text":"因為我們想要找到優秀的運動員於是我們擴大我們的母數我們招募大量的人希望他們進來成為運動員可是到最後能夠成為頂尖的就是那麼少我覺得政府不仁"},{"start":11062.335,"end":11086.137,"text":"因為我們想要找到優秀的運動員我們就拼命的希望母數大一點可是我們沒有想到我們怎麼樣去照顧他們如何讓他們退場所以在這裡我也看到我們的國訓中心在109年到114年預決算我們可以看到本來是要讓這些奪牌的選手轉教練可是"},{"start":11086.637,"end":11108.768,"text":"感覺到興趣缺缺他為什麼會興趣缺缺他不想再回到那樣的一個職業生涯他可能想到那種又要繼續的來在這樣的一個生活中非常的苦悶所以很多人可能興趣缺缺那比較擔心的是說目前我們看到中國那個地方他們也要成立中職"},{"start":11110.171,"end":11134.01,"text":"那我們的運動員 我們的訓練員 我們的教練 我們的裁判他們一直講回本壘嘛 那個口號就是回家回家那這個我們到底我們的基層要如何鞏固那有沒有可能又成為另外一個統戰問題好 我前面講那麼多 我其實說我想要今天來幫忙找解方啦因為以我們原住民來講 我們去讀大專齁"},{"start":11135.151,"end":11150.816,"text":"最熱門的科系第二名是運動競技也就是說我們很多的學生原住民孩子都會去讀相關科系那我在昨天國防部那邊我有去針對一個部分我問國防部長"},{"start":11151.696,"end":11165.447,"text":"我們能不能用原住民族教育法保障的可以開設原專班這個有法源依據那麼我們讓原專班去招收這一些從小受訓練的運動員"},{"start":11167.969,"end":11186.156,"text":"讓他去做什麼呢就類似我們在大學所做的ROTC我們做的是預備士官班就招收運動員那國防部長說OK那我就覺得說很好我們要思考就是說從運動部要照顧的"},{"start":11187.717,"end":11208.986,"text":"從運動員的進入到運動員的訓練照顧到運動員轉介他退場回到基層再來訓練我覺得這是一個很重要的一個循環過程那我就想要聽聽看市長您覺得如果我們可以把我們的運動員他沒有辦法成為頂尖"},{"start":11210.487,"end":11229.501,"text":"他知道自己的限制他願意來投入到我們的國軍因為我聽過太多的國軍跟我講說他們轉職到學校去做教練的時候發現運動員受的訓練其實比軍人還要好他們只是缺乏戰技的指導"},{"start":11230.302,"end":11257.37,"text":"他們都是非常優秀的即戰力國軍所以我覺得這個部分是可以耕耘的一塊市長您的想法如何我認同這樣子的方向特別是在專業職能上面的訓練運動部這個地方則無旁貸可以去創造出或者是請大學端開發出這樣的訓練課程也就是我們這個原民的同胞們課程我都想好了對 我們可以立即的讓他進到軍隊裡面去做服務他們可以去讀二專班可以"},{"start":11258.05,"end":11285.023,"text":"然後利用兩年的時間除了一般的基礎課程戰機訓練 領導課程他們可以拿八張證照像救護員的證照等等這個是非常好的而且我相信他們會是非常優秀的國軍那如果可以的話因為我也要問國防部也要問運動部也要問教育部我每一個部會 園民會我也要問你們應該要全力的來支持好不好好"},{"start":11285.703,"end":11309.176,"text":"那我希望這個部分就是後續也可以給我提供一點你們的書面報告對這件事情的回應好 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝部長謝謝吳麗華委員質詢 次長請回座接下來請蘇清泉委員質詢蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在請吳佩儀委員質詢"},{"start":11319.49,"end":11344.546,"text":"謝謝委員我請黃次長請黃次長委員你好次長好今天有幾個具體的問題要來跟您討論首先第一個是在上一次運動部業務報告中我也跟部長討論過就是我們基層的專任教練他在值錢年資的採計那這個起源就是在11月17號當時教文會"},{"start":11346.727,"end":11366.878,"text":"委員舉辦了基層教練的公聽會當時黃次長您也在現場那我們萬華區東原國小哨棒隊的駱振宇教練也就是剛剛代表台灣拿下世界威廉波特哨棒冠軍隊伍的駱振宇教練他當時提到說因為過去他是計劃教練"},{"start":11368.519,"end":11392.997,"text":"他不是專任教練那麼在這一次奪牌之後呢我們地方政府台北市政府就有在跟學校討論可以再給學校再一個專任教練的名額所以他很有機會就可以來轉任專任教練但是以我們現行的制度他如果轉任了專任教練不採集他之前的年資他已經服務了10年了"},{"start":11394.13,"end":11412.332,"text":"所以等於他的實際上的薪資收入是會倒退而減少的這不只是不公平的待遇這形同於是我們在對一位在基層一直在燃燒熱情努力付出的教練形成我們在否定他們的努力"},{"start":11413.533,"end":11431.181,"text":"那麼當時部長承諾我說會來盤點監討我們整個基層專任教練的制度但是我今天要具體的來跟次長討論事實上我認為我剛講的這個是他之前計畫教練就他一樣是由我們政府公部門單位"},{"start":11432.762,"end":11460.261,"text":"所來聘任的教練他現在是轉任的專任教練像這種銜接值錢年資採集的問題其實專任教練不是獨有的在教師專任教師過去就有相關的討論以及處遇的辦法這個我們目前在專任教師裡面如果像這種值錢年資採集例如說他之前可能是在其他的公務機關或是甚至這個軍隊只要是公務部門"},{"start":11461.041,"end":11468.399,"text":"但是他一旦轉任專任教師之後他的職前年資採計是如何計算這個次長你有沒有瞭解我瞭解這個東西是這樣子"},{"start":11470.253,"end":11494.676,"text":"有沒有辦法採集我們從我們運動部的角度我們當然希望能夠採集但是因為這件事情牽涉到地方因為當他轉任成為教育人員他就要納入地方政府的教育人員的整個體制裡面去他的薪資我們在這邊同意了其實只是我們開支票地方買單這個東西容許我們跟地方政府跟教育部一起來討論因為不是單面運動部說要怎麼樣就可以怎麼樣的"},{"start":11495.256,"end":11514.452,"text":"教練跟教師都一樣一定是中央跟地方實際執行是地方政府嘛要來好好的討論要能夠來執行所以我今天就是跟次長講你要去了解這個教師的制度呢我們目前依照我們教師待遇條例第九條教師他的執行年資就是有採集的"},{"start":11516.009,"end":11542.659,"text":"那麼不管他之前任職的是公務員、公營事業員工、政務官、研究人員、軍隊都可以納入年資採記這個跟你們教練是一樣的這個一樣是地方政府在做敘心跟原額通通是一樣的那再來今年8月開始連代理教師他的職程年資都可以採記也就是說現在如果來擔任我們專任教練這我們政府聘用的"},{"start":11543.615,"end":11552.269,"text":"他的待遇是比代理教師還不如做我們運動的專任教練他的待遇比代理教師還不如"},{"start":11553.322,"end":11573.863,"text":"他已經默默的付出努力了10年的支線連資竟然你們通通不採集一筆勾銷砍到零從零開始練我認為這非常的不合理那麼已經有具體的方案其實我們真的是可以來學習因為這個也有多所討論代理教師啊這個至少我跟你講不用修法"},{"start":11574.904,"end":11601.99,"text":"今年八月開始執行教育部怎麼做呢他就是處理定定的一個辦法所以我今天具體的建議請我們運動部和次長回去趕快研究這個方案次長你也認同我們應該要給基層教練合理的待遇那麼我們今天就單獨在討論專任教練因為整個制度很複雜很多還要去盤整也有約聘教練也有外聘教練等等但我今天講的就是專任教練是地方政府原格已經開出來了我們不應該讓有"},{"start":11603.61,"end":11616.602,"text":"任何一個基層教練他因為要來擔任我們政府的專任教練 既然他過去10年也是在我們公部機關服務的這個教練的年資通通歸零 不採季了"},{"start":11618.471,"end":11634.009,"text":"這我覺得非常的不合理也不應該發生那麼趕快來去研議其實我看過這不用修法你們去訂定辦法應當可以來處理我們趕快來研議可不可以承諾我們來跟地方政府討論因為的確是要由地方政府去訂這個預算好 那趕快開始討論我們不容易幫他去"},{"start":11634.429,"end":11650.136,"text":"好 再來呢就是我們現在在推全民運動那麼我上上個月也舉辦了猛假背桌球推廣賽當時次長跟我們署長都有出席那你們兩位出席的正好是我們學童組的賽事這次這個比賽呢是由我們萬華的桌球委員"},{"start":11651.577,"end":11673.291,"text":"所發起那由中華民國運動與休閒協會來主辦所以他是來自社區那同時邀請全民我們是區域型在世但是我們的這個報名辦法是邀請全國的民眾一起來報名參與的所以這個隊伍是來自各個縣市所以我認為這個其實就是我們在推動的全民運動可是我們看一下全運署的網頁"},{"start":11674.672,"end":11688.441,"text":"這個對於全民運動我們現在列出來的是第一個它叫做體適能推廣第二個它叫做社區運動俱樂部這兩個樣態來 次長您覺得您也來參加這個蒙甲杯桌球推廣賽它屬於這兩項哪一種呢它應該屬於"},{"start":11690.129,"end":11705.799,"text":"社區俱樂部型的它也不只社區俱樂部喔它裡面很多是學校學童組很多都是學校的校隊所以我認為你們這個樣態其實要再多元像我們這種是地方型區域型的盃賽但是它裡面第一個"},{"start":11706.479,"end":11711.982,"text":"他是全齡的我們年紀最長的78歲年紀最輕的6歲所以是全齡運動再來然後他有學校的校隊他有我們在社區裡面長青隊伍他有甚至我們立法院的這個中球隊我們公共車司機還有我們的同仁他們也報了一隊立法院隊也去參加我是領隊"},{"start":11726.468,"end":11751.776,"text":"所以這其實完全是全民運動所以我覺得你們這個應該要增加像這種區域型的賽事因為呢過去你們我看你們在補助全民運動裡面其實主要有兩個項目一種是像單項協會那一種呢是社區俱樂部事實上像這一種它是運動社團法人所主辦跟推廣的它其實也很容易去觸及到我們全民運動這一個層面所以我希望未來我們在全民運動推廣上"},{"start":11752.256,"end":11770.59,"text":"委員 容許我跟你們報告一下我們的確是要往俱樂部的方向來走但是因為現行的法規我們沒有辦法做但是我們的確是在思考我們應該是在明年年初就會把這一個補助的方案可以到地方的這種區域型的單位去處理否則"},{"start":11771.411,"end":11788.713,"text":"有一个人说我是单位就认了就要补助这个很困难我们势必要有一个系统让人家去登记说我是可以被补助的对象这个部分的现在的法规目前全民署正在拟定我们看到的这个问题以现行的状况没有办法下去是不对的我们往那边去来努力"},{"start":11789.273,"end":11806.087,"text":"沒錯 這非常重要因為我們運動部成立很重要一個任務就是要推廣全民運動那麼民間其實已經推廣全民運動多年了它可能藏在我們社會社區各個角落所以我們運動部 權運署我們要來善用民間的資源讓我們可以更快速更深度的來推廣全民運動"},{"start":11807.168,"end":11824.281,"text":"我們在推動一些地方的俱樂部的時候我們就發現到這個問題了在九月底的時候就發現了所以持續地在檢討看看如何可以把政府的這種補助的資源到地方的團體裡面去好 謝謝方先生主席給我30秒的時間就是我要關切的是我們這個運動性停"},{"start":11827.123,"end":11848.137,"text":"我們通常都會拿單因性別比例要達到三分之一做標準但是在我們的亞奧運單項協會裡面目前在理事會他的這個比例有達標比例不到兩成在監事會有達標比例不到四成所以這個非常的不足那麼你們今天有提出報告第一個你們希望修法第二個你們要行政輔導那我已經有提出修法的法案了就修我們國體法"},{"start":11849.258,"end":11873.017,"text":"所以那個我是希望這會期可以通過但就算這會期趕不及你們運動部什麼時候草案抱怨這個會期可不可以抱怨我們應該我們同仁昨天跟我講這個部分已經要馬上要進行那個預告預告完之後聽聽各方的意見之後我們會捏進具體的辦法送到行政院好因為我有提案我想這教委會委員都高度的有共識所以我希望你們可以盡速來進行好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝吳佩奕委員質詢次長請回座"},{"start":11884.083,"end":11890.252,"text":"我們現在要先來處理臨時提案今天有委員提出臨時提案計兩案請宣讀"},{"start":11893.252,"end":11912.515,"text":"臨時提案第一案過往體育署用於決定綜合型賽事運動的名額之大型賽事參賽原則系基於資源有限並以奪牌與競技為主邏輯故即便在青年層級賽事仍以全界名次配合競技等概念做設定如在今年亞青運中手球鐵人三項"},{"start":11914.856,"end":11933.821,"text":"2023東亞青運中女足女排等項目均因權術原則讓我國青年選手因政策決定無法參與考量在運動部成立後改變過去奪排思維不僅是籌備過程中行政院長之宣示過往都不受重視兒少與貧權更因是全新運動部之DNA"},{"start":11934.921,"end":11945.527,"text":"而讓年輕選手在成長過程中有機會參與大型國際賽事即便無法奪牌也是能增加其國際視野與抗壓性的合理投資"},{"start":11946.775,"end":11975.585,"text":"建議運動部預算較體育署時期十年內由八十億增加到兩百四十八億時不應再以預算不足為由作為阻礙台灣青年選手挑戰世界舞台之理由 原此請運動部於三個月內修正大型賽事參賽原則將青年相關賽事排除競技奪牌條款以落實運動平權以鼓勵青年選手國際參與精神提案人陳秀寶 郭益晴 林一錦 葛如軍"},{"start":11977.458,"end":11998.711,"text":"临时提案第二案鉴于体育署过去受夺牌思维影响性平儿少人权军事体育体育业务中长期缺乏关注之领域在运动部成立后目前虽已依法成立性平专业小组但在儿少人权部分仍付之缺乳会触及运动部与各式政策"},{"start":11999.727,"end":12015.836,"text":"中能更有人權與兒少最佳利益之關懷原請運動部於三個月內成立兒少政策工作小組人權工作小組等編制提案人 陳培宇 郭益晴 林益錦張雅琳 陳秀寶 葛築君 先讀完畢"},{"start":12018.131,"end":12041.669,"text":"好 那第一個案子是我這邊的提案我先說一下因為先前在我們運動部的夜報裡面次長是回答我說是因為預算的關係所以沒有辦法讓我們就是這些選手他們有一些單項題會其實是申請的或者說我們不能很大規模讓我們的年輕的這些選手去參加亞青運 青運這些相關的國際賽事"},{"start":12045.151,"end":12063.329,"text":"我想我們運動部成立之後我們的人員經費都是已經有擴充的所以不應該再用預算這個部分來阻礙我們的孩子去參加參與國際的賽事這個部分我不知道我們剛剛有跟運動部討論我們也有修正一些文字次長這邊你有要再補充說明嗎"},{"start":12063.749,"end":12078.656,"text":"是的 謝謝趙偉因為這個案子我們的確我們未來要做的方向的確是要擴大潛力選手而且不會用限制之前那個限制我們的確是會擴大至於擴大到什麼程度真的因為每一種運動的樣態跟國際的競爭力"},{"start":12081.837,"end":12108.373,"text":"不太容易用一刀切說你是第幾名就可以第幾名不可以這個不容易所以是不是容許給我們一點點時間我們來研議一下這個方向我們的方向的確是要擴大潛力選手的培養這是一定要走的事情不會是僅限於以前說如果你在前一次比賽沒有得到前幾名你就不會被培養這個不是我們要做的事情所以在這個地方我是不是也容許我們說請運動部研議修正這個因為它"},{"start":12109.594,"end":12116.047,"text":"它需要花一點時間因為運動的樣態真的多樣性很大是不是可以容許我們做這樣的調整以上 謝謝"},{"start":12117.219,"end":12142.916,"text":"那本來我們這邊有討論說要請運動部研議修正大型賽事的這個參賽原則因為我們過去就體育署定下了這個參賽標準就是被戲稱為是奪牌標準那我想我文字修正之內我還是希望再壓一個時間讓你們先提出的方向所以我要在剛才的這個修正的文字是說請"},{"start":12146.842,"end":12174.703,"text":"運動部研議修正大型賽事參賽原則將青年相關賽事排除適用競技奪牌條款之可行性那我要加一下並於三個月內提出修改方向及目標可以你至少要先定一個方向出來理解然後以落實運動平權與鼓勵青年選手國際參與精神好所以這個可以再加一下這個文字可以 我們接受委員的期許"},{"start":12174.963,"end":12202.284,"text":"好那這一案就修正通過那第二案的部分呢是培育委員的提案我這邊有連署我想我們對於這個平權運動平權我們的各個對象各種對象我們都希望可以逐步來落實那當然這裡面包含在性平在兒少在人權的部分我們都希望可以比較周延那這個部分裡面也有做一點文字的調整次長這邊你要說明嗎"},{"start":12204.611,"end":12233.931,"text":"我們的唯一的建議就是說因為我們是希望如果可以調整成為去三個月內成立平權但是括弧把人權因為平權這件事情包含了人權在裡面如果可以這樣調整的話我會非常非常的感謝一起去處理就是我們把人權這個地方因為它議題會在平權裡面一起去討論好不好所以是否容許我們建議把加上平權那括弧含"},{"start":12234.551,"end":12256.035,"text":"人權其實委員期許的人權還是在裡面只是讓我們把它擴大成為平權的一個概念它的面向比較廣好不好好那可以那這一案就也是修正通過好謝謝那個提案呢如果委員要補簽請醫事人員詳細登載在醫事錄接下來請蔡奕宇委員質詢質詢時間4分鐘"},{"start":12267.377,"end":12270.958,"text":"謝謝主席 那我們是不是有請運動部次長黃次長委員你好次長 因為今天我們是在講如何精進運動平權運動平權事實上對於每一個偏鄉的地區讓他可以有辦法去使用運動的機會也是很重要"},{"start":12292.363,"end":12309.303,"text":"现在的运动也跟过去不一样过去可能说我在太阳底下从事老公的工作就是运动现在可能也有强调说不管是在室内然后让自己一样可以达到健身的一个效果所以"},{"start":12310.204,"end":12324.471,"text":"基本上全民運動中心就是在地方都會有它的需求性那我要講一下說我們水上在上個月水上的全民運動全民運動館也正式的啟用"},{"start":12326.292,"end":12345.168,"text":"學名運動館這樣試營運一個月來我要這樣聽起來去使用健身房的雖然人數比較還不夠但是在使用羽球的以及說現在在預約用那一些瑜伽教室的基本上就很多了"},{"start":12345.768,"end":12369.962,"text":"尤其在使用羽球的真的是還要排隊還要先去預約所以看得出大家對於使用全民運動館是有期待的而且我們當時水上的全民運動館事實上我們有一點是讓它縮小規模就是我們把游泳池把溫水游泳池這個項目拿掉那為什麼當時會想要把這個項目拿掉就是為了說我們這個運動館它還是要引進民間企業嘛"},{"start":12372.623,"end":12397.439,"text":"那民间企业它当然还会有它成本的考量那我们考量到水上地区的人口数它的量体可能没有办法去支撑如果做温水用池要大量的电费所以东西是有一点缩小规模的但是我看起来成功就是第一个民间企业愿意投入第二个民间企业告诉我的也是反应是好的"},{"start":12398.48,"end":12418.029,"text":"所以我現在想要跟市長說那如果在嘉義縣我們本來就說鄉鎮的人口規模我們本來就擔心我們周遭以8萬人那如果你這樣去做評估的話就比方說像在我們的鋪子太保他們在這裡人口數也超過8萬人的一個量體"},{"start":12418.669,"end":12438.997,"text":"像在中埔像在民雄就是在嘉義相對人口比較集中比較密集的一個地方事實上我們還是都會有這一些全民運動館的需求所以未來運動部能不能來繼續來支持我們來推動嘉義縣第二座第三座第四座的一個全民運動館呢"},{"start":12440.233,"end":12461.099,"text":"我們希望能夠透過運動設施的建立鼓勵群眾去運動我們目前的方向是不要蓋太大的因為大的不好經營我們是希望以小一點的功能能夠普及到不同的鄉鎮去這是我們現在的方向是啊 就像我剛才說的就是說當時我們在替水上量身訂做的時候"},{"start":12461.679,"end":12477.877,"text":"我在那個時候在做這樣的規劃的時候我有遇到很多我們嘉義的游泳的協會因為人家都說你看嘉義市的有游泳池為什麼我們沒有游泳池但是我們還是覺得說你要讓願意來承接的企業經營這個經營的內所以當時有做這樣的取捨這樣看起來"},{"start":12482.542,"end":12503.308,"text":"這個方向應該是對雖然說游泳的還是會有它的一個需求的存在但是畢竟說我們在經營這樣一個運動場館的時候讓民間來投入然後減少公部門的一個營運成本那民間投入後它又有收益然後大家又可以用很平價的價格去可以達到它運動的效果"},{"start":12507.65,"end":12521.08,"text":"我們接下來嘉義縣我們真的想要再爭取鋪子 中埔 民雄這我都希望我是建議地方政府在提案的時候要先了解當地民眾的真正的需求也就是他們願意去投入的運動種類來做設計"},{"start":12523.331,"end":12551.779,"text":"這樣才有辦法去我們當然會提出我們的具體的我們這個地方大概運動的一個喜好然後比較可行的方案那我們提方案的時候未來就麻煩運動部來大力來支持我們我們一起努力好再來第二項很簡單的第二十秒明年嘉義縣要舉辦這個全中運就是未來中等學校這個國中高中生的所有的運動選手大概會有一萬八千人來我們嘉義縣比賽是"},{"start":12552.459,"end":12570.386,"text":"所以我想這麼盛大的一個這個活動全中運的項目我們邀請我們部長未來我們的里洋部長這段時間就要進駐我們這裡我們這裡的選手大家看到他都很高興好不好他時間半多半多時間每年比賽的時間來到我們這裡的選手大家加油大家看到他就要跟他合照很高興的好不好再秀個球技一下大家又更High了好不好"},{"start":12581.75,"end":12602.302,"text":"好谢谢谢谢谢谢委员谢谢蔡玉委员质询次长请回座接下来请黄国昌委员质询黄国昌黄国昌委员不在请郑正前委员质询郑正前郑正前委员不在请林倩琦委员质询"},{"start":12611.598,"end":12616.517,"text":"好 谢谢我们赵伟请黄次长请黄次长"},{"start":12622.214,"end":12646.793,"text":"次長好今天我們是針對運動平權的議題本席這邊有幾個部分來跟您就教也就是在族群平權還有城鄉空間的一個平權還有世代的平權跟性別的平權首先本席要針對11月12號本席媒合的運動部跟園民會在會議裡面的談話結果表示肯定"},{"start":12647.233,"end":12672.351,"text":"那也就是關於我們原住民運動科學人才的一個培育那麼我們知道原住民在運動的這個表現上是非常的傑出那也在原住民的這個運動上我們希望有更開拓的一個空間那也希望在原住民的這個運動人才在退役之後有更大的一個發展所以我們在這裡面談到原鄉跟原住民在體能上運動醫學上跟"},{"start":12673.712,"end":12698.017,"text":"科學訓練上長期比較沒有機會接觸那人員也不足所以本席在這個後續規劃上有考慮到原住民運動人才運動科學人才的培育跟養成那感謝運動部做出這樣的承諾那次長本席想請教目前在這個預計後續如何來推動原住民運動科學人才的一個培育"},{"start":12699.057,"end":12714.054,"text":"這個部分在當天會議結束之後我們就有跟台灣師範大學的向子源教授討論到這個事情他完全支持這樣的想法也就是我們會挪出一部分的名額專門給我們原住民的有興趣的人進來學習運動數據分析師的一個訓練課程"},{"start":12717.518,"end":12740.095,"text":"好 谢谢次长那应该好像在全国的一些运动科学的一个学程里面您这边应该也做了一些支持吧是的那也希望后续在这个部分能够多为我们各级的运动员如果在过程当中成长的过程当中就有这个需求或者是退役上可以再做一些辅导那也请您在名额上"},{"start":12740.555,"end":12756.706,"text":"能夠給我們更多一些那在這個跟產業的連結上也可以幫我們多做一些媒合謝謝 謝謝委員我們會希望能夠建構區域的運科資源團隊因為不太容易地方的一個團隊就要運科中心的人去那是做不到的"},{"start":12757.066,"end":12780.746,"text":"所以我们只有建构更多的人才培养更多人才能够在地方形成团队而这个团队可以某种程度的收一些费用所以它可以自成体系的去回运下去中央一定会想办法去补助这一些可是也要有使用者付费的概念那应该在培训当中因为这是产业嘛对我们是希望透过产业能够自给自足的概念朝那个方向来努力"},{"start":12782.137,"end":12809.314,"text":"所以我相信所有的原住民委員應該都會幫忙來建構這樣一個平台我們也期待未來部內能夠給我們更多的一個支持那本席接下來再談一個其實整個亞洲還有台灣很重要的一個不僅是公共衛生的議題那也是運動的一個議題也就是亞洲肌少症的這個工作小組最新的診斷在NatureAgent的這個研究上亞洲人肌少症的這個狀況非常嚴重"},{"start":12811.676,"end":12830.075,"text":"45歲以下就明顯的肌少症肌肉就下滑了然後55歲肌肉量的加速衰減那麼本席這邊建議就是篩檢的年齡可以從65歲提前到50歲因為肌少症現在看起來在台灣不是老年人的疾病而是中年"},{"start":12830.455,"end":12850.268,"text":"就已經開始了全國性的隱憂所以本席這邊要請教運動部針對中高齡運動參與政策核心是不是有關注到這個面向那做法是什麼因為40歲到70歲之間基礎症的量平均流失4成50歲最容易產生一些變化"},{"start":12850.828,"end":12875.248,"text":"那麼這個部分運動部是不是也有規劃相關族群的一個肌肉訓練社區主幹運動課程以及中高齡運動健身的相關補助是的 這個方面是有從篩檢上面目前我們正在開發一個系統透過自己的手機對自己拍照那這個部分有沒有可能在那個年齡上的下降可以跟各個部會來做一個討論"},{"start":12876.428,"end":12901.164,"text":"这个部分我们会跟卫福部国建署一起来努力因为这是一个共同要面对的问题是因为现在这个也蛮严重了年龄的下降是最主要的一个课题你们现在有没有将这个主抗的运动纳入全民运动政策的一个核心项目因为主抗运动应该是真正比较能够提升肌肉量有氧运动没有办法去逆转"},{"start":12901.564,"end":12928.428,"text":"肌少症所以目前大部分社區的課程長者活動大部分都是走路律動檢疫操為主那麼整個握力是下降的所以這個肌少症的警訊也是從這邊會產生所以本席這邊建議運動部應該來建立第一中高齡主抗訓練的標準課程第二個部分是針對這個中高齡人口的檢疫器材的補助計畫還有第三個部分是協助社區來建置"},{"start":12929.228,"end":12943.012,"text":"社區禮辦運動中心的一個肌肉訓練專區那這個部分也就談到了應該建置我們剛才講到的城鄉空間的一個差距那剛才我看到聽到蔡義渝委員其實也有談到因為在這個鄉鎮其實這個需求蠻高的"},{"start":12947.233,"end":12961.223,"text":"但是在運動平權上城鄉差距真的是部內真的要當成一個重點來考量所以還包括建制包含綜合能力訓練的球類運動設施本席最近就也呼應一下蔡委員"},{"start":12963.784,"end":12990.335,"text":"剛才講到嘉義縣本席過去工作的大林鎮旁邊的民雄鄉也提出來一些方案有關於建置棒壘球場的一個計畫本席所在的大林鎮目前也有希望能夠在水上運動上希望部內這邊也來建構一些平台所以在鄉鎮建置這些設施的時候如果碰到一些土地法規上的限制"},{"start":12991.135,"end":13012.591,"text":"延宕或者是會拉長這個設施建構的時間那在過程當中我們可不可以不要間斷的有一些運動活動的這個舉辦不要讓相關運動的參與會斷掉那所以運動平權其實也包括城鄉空間運動平權那這個部分不知道這個部內是不是可以來協助跟支持"},{"start":13013.471,"end":13031.671,"text":"城鄉的落差的確是存在的那我們會希望跟地方政府一起來努力因為提案算一定是從地方政府提出來因為我們不知道土地在哪裡我們一定會支持這個方向而且是以小型的功能型的運動設施因為這樣的可及性才會高未來的營運成本才會"},{"start":13032.392,"end":13059.082,"text":"您這邊講到的是產業面啦但是我們在講全民的這個推動全民運動推動上現在城鄉的差距很大那所以有一些鄉鎮可能量能不足可是我們也希望能夠在過程當中開始做全民化運動的一個推動那所以運動的推動在活動上然後運動賽事的舉辦上小型賽事的舉辦上或者是這個全民各項單項運動的一個推廣上其實是可以透過更多的一個活動舉辦"},{"start":13060.663,"end":13077.122,"text":"然後來銜接未來可能長期的一個場館設施的一個補足所以這個部分是不是可以來做一些支援我們全民署的確是要跟鄉鎮多一點合作沒有錯我們就是希望活動的本身或運動的本身是普及到基層去的不再是以單獨訓練運動員為唯一的目標"},{"start":13080.546,"end":13098.871,"text":"日本人贊同這樣一個方向但是最後就是還是呼籲一下一些鄉鎮他們真的在這個部分有很大的需求也希望部內多在原鄉的部分然後一些城鎮的部分也多費一些心然後多一些運動的活動的舉辦然後設施長期應該有一個規劃謝謝謝謝委員謝謝倩琪委員質詢次長請回座"},{"start":13106.994,"end":13121.545,"text":"接下來請吳思瑤委員質詢吳思瑤吳思瑤委員不在請林佩祥委員質詢林佩祥林佩祥委員不在請盧憲一委員質詢有請次長請黃次長"},{"start":13136.921,"end":13162.818,"text":"喂 你好因为今天的主题就是讲平权我们都知道平权当然是年龄 性别 资源 资讯 肢体这方面的一个为了保障跟提升我们弱势族群参与运动的一个方向可是我看到这个报告里面我们原住民的地方只在第九月的大概一段 一小段当然还是讲到心理健康这个部分我是觉得这个整个"},{"start":13163.999,"end":13182.455,"text":"投資啊或者是重視啊我覺得還是看不到那我這一兩年來在走訪各個我們原鄉地區會發現就剛才蔡議員講的就是運動中心的分布不均那我是覺得是不是可以盤點我們偏鄉或者說有沒有至少一個具體的規劃說去看看我們"},{"start":13183.435,"end":13197.191,"text":"屏東啊台東花蓮或者是離島金門澎湖這些運動的運動中心的一個規劃因為我們實在是從這個你的報告裡面確實是看不到有沒有這樣的一個願景那我們有看到一些看到"},{"start":13198.553,"end":13214.03,"text":"或者是看到这个学校场地或者是直属运动部的这些经费可是我们没有看到偏乡的投资大概要带多少所以我想说是不是一个具体保障的比例或者是家权的补助的机制可以来帮忙我们地方政府"},{"start":13215.43,"end":13233.596,"text":"這個方面我們是持續的在努力啦要有一個固定的比例保障這個我現在真的不敢這樣講但是希望基層能夠有更多的場域能夠提供給一般民眾的活動希望能夠縮短城鄉之間的落差這是我們既定的目標"},{"start":13234.056,"end":13263.691,"text":"对没有错我有看到你们大概有有说核定大概儿少场馆大概14案嘛有补助了661案可是我们想要知道说这个这些补助核定在我们偏向地区到底是占了多少比例那我是说明年是不是如果说确实没有达到一个不一定的比例的话是不是明年应该有一个保障的让我们偏向地区我刚才所说的县市啊离岛啊至少在看到这个它的数据上面可以具体的呈现它的一个补足好"},{"start":13263.871,"end":13273.938,"text":"跟委員報告根據我們同事所提供的資料從106年開始到現在為止在原住民族地區總共有92件改善運動環境的案子"},{"start":13274.861,"end":13302.967,"text":"然后我前几天去秀林乡花莲那个学校他们大概提供了一个PU跑道的一个计划结果他们说去年提供完全没有回应然后后来我们在那天的视察有参与会议他就说去年花莲县一件补助都没有那我就在想一个学校的一个PU跑道用了几十年或者是说一些地区它可能有这些需求可是全县没有一件补助我是觉得这个部分真的是值得商榷"},{"start":13304.278,"end":13321.886,"text":"OK 然後另外我提供兩個地方的陳情就是紅葉哨棒紀念館我們都知道1968年他們得過冠軍所以變成是享譽台灣可是你目前看看現在的紅葉哨棒紀念館這個小小的一個不到30坪的一個紀念館"},{"start":13322.426,"end":13341.123,"text":"他们有地方需求说是不是能够结合比如说我们的企业界顾重量这些我们去拜访中信集团能不能提供这方面的经营员那我就在想说是不是运动部有如何看待这种潜在的公司协力案是不是可以进行支持跟资源的协调"},{"start":13341.843,"end":13364.637,"text":"我們會來媒合這樣的可能性但現階段對於我們的運動記憶數位典藏這件事情我們正在做全面性的規劃我們希望會有一個運動博物館但是收集資料保存資料已經開始因為那個不能夠停下來所以這是一個全面性的東西而紅葉哨棒在我們台灣有它一個歷史的地位我們會努力來做這樣的媒合"},{"start":13365.137,"end":13381.872,"text":"好 我最後因為我來自霧台鄉我們在60年代也就是1966年曾經有選手在中飛運動比賽得到5000公尺冠軍也就是拿到我們霧台鄉等於是一個長跑的美名我在臉書上有看到有些我們的專家學者"},{"start":13382.472,"end":13400.321,"text":"希望因为我们这样的一个过去的历史经验我们可以仿造肯亚伊苏比亚墨西哥这些有高三培训选手的计划可以导入到我们雾台乡雾台乡的话它不仅可以提供我们的高三训练高海拔训练耐热训练这些"},{"start":13401.081,"end":13427.979,"text":"不仅可以去复振我们在地的古道然后去培育我们从小朋友一直到年轻人的培育的路径也可以强化我们这些文化的一个回馈的机制所以我在想如果这个投资我是觉得会是多元性的也就符合我们现在在讲的运动平权的这个概念所以我希望市长有一个出行就是说如果你以后要有长跑选手村这样的规划的时候"},{"start":13431.521,"end":13454.068,"text":"是 一定会的因为高地训练中心的选址极其重要因为高度如果不对效果就没有所以不是任何一个稍微高一点的地方就可以它有它一个学理上必须要有一个高度环境的建构更是重要是 谢谢我们会把它拿入考虑我们一起努力谢谢 谢谢委员谢谢卢宪一委员质询次长请回座"},{"start":13455.595,"end":13473.001,"text":"接下來請陳培宇委員質詢陳培宇陳培宇委員不在請羅明財委員質詢羅明財羅明財委員不在請洪孟凱委員質詢洪孟凱洪孟凱委員不在"},{"start":13476.26,"end":13502.057,"text":"今天登記質詢委員均已發言完畢另有林沛翔委員、黃婕委員、徐欣盈委員提出書面質詢關於今天會議就如下決定報告及詢答完畢委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆"},{"start":13502.737,"end":13505.499,"text":"報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}