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北庭門有請"},{"start":15.8,"end":19.6,"text":"請陳北庭門的背景"},{"start":19.6,"end":25,"text":"北庭門 早安"},{"start":25,"end":26.36,"text":"我是立法委員劉許廷"},{"start":26.36,"end":28.36,"text":"今天我們分兩個層面"},{"start":28.36,"end":31.36,"text":"探討一下監察院的功能跟角色扮演"},{"start":31.36,"end":35.16,"text":"希望被提名人知不不厭 言無不盡"},{"start":35.16,"end":38.96,"text":"第一個我們探討監察院的憲政角色"},{"start":38.96,"end":39.96,"text":"這個大家都知道"},{"start":39.96,"end":44.56,"text":"監察院是憲法設置的監察機關"},{"start":44.56,"end":46.36,"text":"核心的職能大家都非常清楚"},{"start":46.36,"end":49.16,"text":"基本上就是強力的監督公務人員"},{"start":49.16,"end":50.36,"text":"以及政務人員"},{"start":50.36,"end":53.16,"text":"有沒有違法失職的各種情勢"},{"start":53.16,"end":55.760000000000005,"text":"憲法第95條明定監察院行使"},{"start":55.76,"end":59.559999999999995,"text":"監察權 德向行政院及各部會調閱發佈命令"},{"start":59.559999999999995,"end":60.76,"text":"及各種有關的文件"},{"start":60.76,"end":62.16,"text":"甚至都是內參的文件"},{"start":62.16,"end":63.16,"text":"你也都可以調閱了"},{"start":63.16,"end":63.959999999999994,"text":"有調閱的權利"},{"start":63.959999999999994,"end":68.16,"text":"監察法也賦予了監察委員調查各機關"},{"start":68.16,"end":69.36,"text":"及相關人員的權利"},{"start":69.36,"end":70.56,"text":"就是所謂的調查權"},{"start":70.56,"end":72.96,"text":"因此我們常常都關注"},{"start":72.96,"end":75.36,"text":"這個監察院不能只等到"},{"start":75.36,"end":77.75999999999999,"text":"法院判決公務員違法之後"},{"start":77.75999999999999,"end":79.56,"text":"我才來做事後的調查"},{"start":79.56,"end":80.75999999999999,"text":"或者是有權的調查"},{"start":80.75999999999999,"end":83.16,"text":"而是只要有任何的具體事證"},{"start":83.16,"end":84.75999999999999,"text":"甚至有這樣的一個跡象的時候"},{"start":84.76,"end":86.36,"text":"其實是應該要主動出擊的"},{"start":86.36,"end":87.96000000000001,"text":"只要任何的行政機關"},{"start":87.96000000000001,"end":91.16000000000001,"text":"或者是公務員有可能有違法失職的狀況"},{"start":91.16000000000001,"end":93.36,"text":"其實就可以早日其中調查"},{"start":93.36,"end":95.16000000000001,"text":"來儘速釐清事實跟責任"},{"start":95.16000000000001,"end":96.76,"text":"這不應該同意這樣的說法吧"},{"start":96.76,"end":98.16000000000001,"text":"這個我贊成"},{"start":98.16000000000001,"end":98.96000000000001,"text":"贊成對不對"},{"start":98.96000000000001,"end":99.96000000000001,"text":"所以我們要討論一下"},{"start":99.96000000000001,"end":100.76,"text":"這個憲政"},{"start":100.76,"end":102.36000000000001,"text":"我們要從憲大的方向開始談"},{"start":102.36000000000001,"end":104.76,"text":"就是談一下所謂的憲政分際的詢問"},{"start":104.76,"end":106.36000000000001,"text":"因為監察院能夠合理的扮演"},{"start":106.36000000000001,"end":107.96000000000001,"text":"憲政分際的時候"},{"start":107.96000000000001,"end":110.36000000000001,"text":"才是能夠發揮功能的一個關鍵"},{"start":110.36000000000001,"end":111.56,"text":"這不能只是說說而已"},{"start":111.56,"end":112.76,"text":"而是無法"},{"start":112.96000000000001,"end":115.56,"text":"這個過去常常有沒有辦法付出實踐的問題"},{"start":115.56,"end":117.36,"text":"剛剛好幾位委員在質詢的時候"},{"start":117.36,"end":118.36,"text":"其實都提到了"},{"start":118.36,"end":121.16000000000001,"text":"這個民意對於監察院的存在"},{"start":121.16000000000001,"end":122.76,"text":"大概顯然是已經是"},{"start":122.76,"end":124.76,"text":"持一個相對一個負面的一個看法"},{"start":124.76,"end":126.76,"text":"其實很多時候就背後是有結構性的"},{"start":126.76,"end":127.76,"text":"這樣的一個原因"},{"start":127.76,"end":129.16,"text":"我想請教一下被提名人"},{"start":129.16,"end":130.56,"text":"這依照憲法"},{"start":130.56,"end":132.96,"text":"行政機關有沒有權力自行認定"},{"start":132.96,"end":135.36,"text":"立法院三讀通過的法律"},{"start":135.36,"end":137.36,"text":"還有總統已經公佈的法律是違憲"},{"start":137.36,"end":138.76,"text":"所以他拒絕執行"},{"start":140.36,"end":142.16,"text":"委員是說行政機關能不能"},{"start":142.16,"end":144.35999999999999,"text":"行政院有沒有權力去認定"},{"start":144.35999999999999,"end":145.35999999999999,"text":"立法院通過"},{"start":145.35999999999999,"end":146.96,"text":"而且經過總統公佈的法律"},{"start":146.96,"end":148.96,"text":"因為我認為他違憲所以我不執行"},{"start":148.96,"end":149.96,"text":"他可不可以這樣"},{"start":149.96,"end":151.76,"text":"這個當然會引起爭議"},{"start":151.76,"end":155.76,"text":"那所以我想這個還是要憲法法庭去做裁決"},{"start":155.76,"end":159.96,"text":"就是說行政機構跟立法機構意見不一樣的時候"},{"start":159.96,"end":164.16,"text":"那應該是大法官會議跟憲法法庭要去做裁決"},{"start":164.16,"end":165.35999999999999,"text":"這個是最後的裁決"},{"start":165.35999999999999,"end":166.76,"text":"但是從你的角度"},{"start":166.76,"end":168.56,"text":"有沒有人可以偏偏認定這個事"},{"start":168.56,"end":170.96,"text":"他們可不可以直接認定這件事"},{"start":171.16,"end":174.16,"text":"我想這個是會有爭議"},{"start":174.16,"end":176.16,"text":"但是我不能說他可不可以"},{"start":176.16,"end":180.36,"text":"因為檢察院沒有辦法去做這樣的一個判定"},{"start":180.36,"end":181.16,"text":"那我想請教一下"},{"start":181.16,"end":181.96,"text":"我們大家都講"},{"start":181.96,"end":183.76000000000002,"text":"這檢察院整個運作的核心"},{"start":183.76000000000002,"end":185.76000000000002,"text":"這我想整個國家運作的核心"},{"start":185.76000000000002,"end":186.76000000000002,"text":"法治國原則"},{"start":186.76000000000002,"end":188.76000000000002,"text":"大家依法行政是最重要的"},{"start":188.76000000000002,"end":191.36,"text":"這甚至檢察院很多時候要補一補立法院的功能"},{"start":191.36,"end":194.16,"text":"就是因為這個即便是違反法律精神的時候"},{"start":194.16,"end":195.76000000000002,"text":"其實你都可以集中調查對不對"},{"start":195.76000000000002,"end":198.56,"text":"大家都檢察院的角色想像跟期待是這樣"},{"start":198.56,"end":199.26,"text":"所以換言之"},{"start":199.26,"end":201.26,"text":"社會大眾對於檢察院的期待"},{"start":201.26,"end":202.86,"text":"甚至有的就是高過立法院"},{"start":202.86,"end":207.06,"text":"立法院沒有辦法處理是因為我們這邊被法律等等的框架所框架住"},{"start":207.06,"end":208.56,"text":"但是我們法律的精神"},{"start":208.56,"end":210.76,"text":"如果能夠往好的方向去貫徹"},{"start":210.76,"end":213.36,"text":"變成一個乾乾淨淨正正當當的國家"},{"start":213.36,"end":215.36,"text":"這才是檢察院的角色"},{"start":215.36,"end":217.06,"text":"結果你今天我們在討論"},{"start":217.06,"end":218.56,"text":"這個憲政裡面出現很大的問題"},{"start":218.56,"end":219.56,"text":"你說我只能爭議"},{"start":219.56,"end":220.76,"text":"我只能袖手反過來"},{"start":220.76,"end":223.76,"text":"我覺得這樣的一個答案是蠻失望的"},{"start":223.76,"end":224.96,"text":"我想請教一下背景人"},{"start":224.96,"end":227.26,"text":"這憲法有哪一條法律規定"},{"start":227.26,"end":229.859999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,"end":431.46,"text":"現在我們當然有在追蹤"},{"start":431.46,"end":433.46,"text":"他就是沒有執行沒有編列相關的預算"},{"start":433.46,"end":435.86,"text":"還形成了很多執政的一個僵局"},{"start":435.86,"end":437.06,"text":"預算的僵局等等"},{"start":437.06,"end":439.86,"text":"都是來自於這個法律沒有被依法執行"},{"start":439.86,"end":441.96,"text":"那請問監察院的角色是什麼呢"},{"start":441.96,"end":443.46,"text":"在這個案例裡面"},{"start":443.46,"end":446.65999999999997,"text":"那如果立法院向監察院提出這個案子"},{"start":446.65999999999997,"end":448.15999999999997,"text":"我們可以調查"},{"start":448.15999999999997,"end":450.15999999999997,"text":"提到但結論是你沒有調查"},{"start":450.15999999999997,"end":451.26,"text":"有提啊"},{"start":451.26,"end":453.76,"text":"這些當然都有送到監察院"},{"start":453.76,"end":455.36,"text":"監察院當初的回應是說"},{"start":455.36,"end":456.46,"text":"我們這個沒有辦法"},{"start":456.46,"end":458.35999999999996,"text":"沒有辦法出因為這個是屬於憲政爭議"},{"start":458.35999999999996,"end":459.85999999999996,"text":"因為他講說這個要釋憲"},{"start":459.85999999999996,"end":462.15999999999997,"text":"現在我們執政黨只要"},{"start":462.15999999999997,"end":464.15999999999997,"text":"這個對法案品質不滿意"},{"start":464.15999999999997,"end":465.15999999999997,"text":"或者是內容不滿意"},{"start":465.15999999999997,"end":466.46,"text":"他就說我有憲政爭議"},{"start":466.46,"end":469.35999999999996,"text":"片面認定要要盡憲法法律"},{"start":469.35999999999996,"end":470.46,"text":"你也就是說好吧"},{"start":470.46,"end":471.46,"text":"那就交給那個處理"},{"start":471.46,"end":472.65999999999997,"text":"你不亦有態度"},{"start":472.65999999999997,"end":474.15999999999997,"text":"現在的狀況是這樣"},{"start":474.15999999999997,"end":476.46,"text":"很多立法院通過了法法案"},{"start":476.46,"end":477.76,"text":"出現爭議的時候"},{"start":477.76,"end":479.15999999999997,"text":"我們也希望監察院有態度"},{"start":479.15999999999997,"end":480.85999999999996,"text":"但監察院結論是我沒有態度"},{"start":480.85999999999996,"end":483.35999999999996,"text":"被提名同意這樣子的一個風氣嗎"},{"start":483.35999999999996,"end":484.56,"text":"我剛剛已經講了"},{"start":484.56,"end":487.16,"text":"如果立法院跟行政院的看法"},{"start":487.16,"end":489.46,"text":"是在憲政上有爭議"},{"start":489.46,"end":491.36,"text":"這個要大法官來解釋"},{"start":491.36,"end":493.06,"text":"不是由監察院來判決"},{"start":493.06,"end":494.26,"text":"是啊所以你在回應"},{"start":494.26,"end":495.66,"text":"我們立法院相關的一個問卷的時候"},{"start":495.66,"end":496.66,"text":"你就講"},{"start":496.66,"end":498.46,"text":"有沒有違憲只有司法院可以回答"},{"start":498.46,"end":499.86,"text":"但在這個判決出來之前"},{"start":499.86,"end":501.06,"text":"你不亦有任何態度"},{"start":501.06,"end":502.16,"text":"這就是有問題"},{"start":502.16,"end":503.66,"text":"因為我剛舉的軍人待遇條例"},{"start":503.66,"end":505.56,"text":"完全沒有任何爭議不是嗎"},{"start":505.56,"end":507.16,"text":"但是你也沒有做相應的處理"},{"start":507.16,"end":508.66,"text":"你也沒有做調查"},{"start":508.66,"end":510.16,"text":"也沒有做彈劾等等"},{"start":510.16,"end":513.66,"text":"那當然大家就會對監察院失去信心"},{"start":513.66,"end":516.16,"text":"被提名人提了很多改革的一個主張"},{"start":516.16,"end":517.9599999999999,"text":"這個大家剛剛很多委員也講"},{"start":517.9599999999999,"end":520.06,"text":"擔心監察院被沒有牙齒的老虎"},{"start":520.06,"end":522.36,"text":"你都不擔心這樣的事情嗎"},{"start":522.36,"end":525.76,"text":"我覺得如果真的立法院有碰到這個問題"},{"start":525.76,"end":527.26,"text":"把案子送到監察院"},{"start":527.26,"end":529.9599999999999,"text":"監察院是可以調查成案立案"},{"start":529.9599999999999,"end":531.76,"text":"但是最後的結果我不知道"},{"start":531.76,"end":533.4599999999999,"text":"因為要看調查的結果"},{"start":533.4599999999999,"end":535.4599999999999,"text":"因為前面不管是調查立案"},{"start":535.4599999999999,"end":537.36,"text":"就不受理不處理不立案"},{"start":537.36,"end":538.16,"text":"然後剛剛問你"},{"start":538.16,"end":540.4599999999999,"text":"你又講說不亦有態度"},{"start":540.4599999999999,"end":541.86,"text":"你在問卷回答的時候都是這樣"},{"start":541.86,"end":543.86,"text":"這就是本席今天要提一下這件事情的原因"},{"start":543.86,"end":545.16,"text":"我們很擔心"},{"start":545.16,"end":547.86,"text":"如果監察院沒有辦法扮演這樣一個角色的時候"},{"start":547.86,"end":551.16,"text":"那當然就會違反整個社會的期待"},{"start":551.16,"end":553.86,"text":"你剛剛提的是兩個不同例子"},{"start":553.86,"end":555.36,"text":"一個是他不附屬"},{"start":555.36,"end":555.86,"text":"那這個是"},{"start":555.86,"end":557.26,"text":"我沒有 我一開始我講的就是"},{"start":557.26,"end":559.86,"text":"他附屬了"},{"start":559.86,"end":561.16,"text":"總統也公布了"},{"start":561.16,"end":563.0600000000001,"text":"那這個是實行的問題"},{"start":563.0600000000001,"end":565.86,"text":"這是兩個不同的範圍"},{"start":565.86,"end":568.26,"text":"我剛剛舉的例子就是軍人待遇條例"},{"start":568.26,"end":570.76,"text":"因為我說依法公布的一個法律就應該要執行"},{"start":570.76,"end":571.96,"text":"這其實從監察院"},{"start":571.96,"end":574.36,"text":"從依法行政的精神本來就要貫徹"},{"start":574.36,"end":576.26,"text":"我很擔心這樣的風氣一旦建立"},{"start":576.26,"end":577.56,"text":"未來監察院"},{"start":577.56,"end":580.76,"text":"我要開始調查違法失職的各種項目的時候"},{"start":580.76,"end":581.96,"text":"然後下面的公務員講說"},{"start":581.96,"end":583.26,"text":"我覺得這個東西有憲政爭議"},{"start":583.26,"end":585.36,"text":"你以前只要碰到憲政爭議你就不處理"},{"start":585.36,"end":586.36,"text":"這很麻煩"},{"start":586.36,"end":588.76,"text":"你反而會影響監察院的一個職能"},{"start":588.76,"end":589.46,"text":"時間有限"},{"start":589.46,"end":590.66,"text":"我就不多跟你談這個事"},{"start":590.66,"end":591.96,"text":"另外一個我要提醒一下"},{"start":591.96,"end":593.46,"text":"剛剛有委員講說"},{"start":593.46,"end":595.66,"text":"這個立法院很喜歡用監察院的調查報告"},{"start":595.66,"end":597.06,"text":"所以監察院很有功能"},{"start":597.06,"end":600.36,"text":"以經貿談判辦公室這個案子來說"},{"start":600.36,"end":602.5600000000001,"text":"這個調查報告什麼時候出來的"},{"start":602.5600000000001,"end":604.16,"text":"7月29號"},{"start":604.16,"end":605.96,"text":"行政院什麼時候免職的"},{"start":605.96,"end":607.66,"text":"7月2號"},{"start":607.66,"end":610.46,"text":"如果監察院不能善察於前"},{"start":610.46,"end":611.76,"text":"強力處理於前"},{"start":611.76,"end":613.5600000000001,"text":"在這種重大的社會主義案子那邊"},{"start":613.5600000000001,"end":615.46,"text":"彰顯相關的權利的話"},{"start":615.46,"end":616.46,"text":"這就是為什麼"},{"start":616.46,"end":618.86,"text":"大家覺得監察院可有可無的原因"},{"start":618.86,"end":619.66,"text":"因為沒有時間"},{"start":619.66,"end":621.36,"text":"我就沒辦法聽你回答比較遺憾"},{"start":621.36,"end":623.96,"text":"但留在議事錄上給大家做一個參考"},{"start":623.96,"end":624.66,"text":"以上謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}