{"error":false,"id":["170935"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":170935,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170935","日期":"2026-08-12","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"公聽會-2026080659","會議代碼:str":"舉行「《氣候變遷因應法》碳費徵收、減量誘因及溫室氣體管理基金運用制度」公聽會","屆":11,"會期":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"公聽會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「《氣候變遷因應法》碳費徵收、減量誘因及溫室氣體管理基金運用制度」公聽會）"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-12T10:15:50+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-12T10:24:32+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:42","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/628bd009efdbf44b4cb6e4098b209fffcd854716b345d19173231451c13a983df2eb115a571346e55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"10:15:50 - 10:24:32","會議時間":"2026-08-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會公聽會（事由：舉行「《氣候變遷因應法》碳費徵收、減量誘因及溫室氣體管理基金運用制度」公聽會）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":35.299718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.97471875,"end":74.56784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.85471875,"end":134.87909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.33471875,"end":168.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":168.62909375,"end":199.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.69596875000002,"end":208.09971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.43721875,"end":339.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.60659375,"end":419.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":420.06659375000004,"end":485.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.33471875000004,"end":513.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.22909375,"end":516.1865937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.81096875,"end":522.97034375}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":3.4,"text":"大家好 我們看到前署長 今天也特別來參加"},{"start":3.7600000000000002,"end":8.5,"text":"那我想 今天這樣的一個議題 對於台灣未來的這個減碳"},{"start":8.5,"end":11.78,"text":"其實是非常重要的公聽會"},{"start":11.78,"end":16.38,"text":"所以我今天在這邊也提出幾點 我自己的意見跟看法"},{"start":16.7,"end":20.86,"text":"因為台灣我們在2026年開始 開徵碳費"},{"start":20.86,"end":24.400000000000002,"text":"我們收到了49.7億之後"},{"start":24.7,"end":28.900000000000002,"text":"那這一個金額 其實跟原來大家預估的"},{"start":29.139999999999997,"end":33.44,"text":"並不算是一個很高的金額 它就是啟動了一小步"},{"start":33.44,"end":37.9,"text":"因為原來在碳費徵收之前 大家都知道"},{"start":37.9,"end":42.6,"text":"當時的專家學者會議 大家希望普遍的一般性的費率就是300元"},{"start":42.82,"end":50.78,"text":"但是並沒有後來衛福部所謂的這個優惠折扣的這樣的一個價格出來"},{"start":51.14,"end":54.980000000000004,"text":"那當然我知道當時其實有很多企業界反彈"},{"start":54.980000000000004,"end":58.42,"text":"所以衛福部 這個環境部也讓步"},{"start":58.620000000000005,"end":64.82000000000001,"text":"就是說在這個經費上面 它提出了企業的優惠措施"},{"start":65.26,"end":69.7,"text":"那這樣的一個優惠措施 其實已經實施一段時間"},{"start":69.82000000000001,"end":72.82000000000001,"text":"我覺得今天大家也應該要回過頭來思考"},{"start":72.82000000000001,"end":77.7,"text":"就是這樣的一個優惠措施 它所產生的效應到底是什麼"},{"start":77.94,"end":82.14,"text":"當然好處是讓更多的企業反彈不大 可以上路"},{"start":82.34,"end":87.66,"text":"但是它可能會產生幾個問題 仍然是我們必須要面對的"},{"start":87.89999999999999,"end":90.5,"text":"就是剛剛其實特別已經有學者講了"},{"start":90.66,"end":94.06,"text":"有些更大型的企業他覺得 我繳了碳費了事"},{"start":94.34,"end":98.06,"text":"真正需要它深度去更改設備投入"},{"start":98.46,"end":102.66,"text":"而能達到真正減碳效果這件事情 恐怕並沒有發生"},{"start":102.97999999999999,"end":107.74,"text":"那如果是這樣子 大家就是我有一個重數計畫 我有一個什麼計畫"},{"start":107.86,"end":112.46,"text":"但是真正它本身排出這個大量這個氣體"},{"start":112.46,"end":116.86,"text":"然後增加碳排這件事情 反而沒有被檢視了"},{"start":117.06,"end":120.26,"text":"所以這件事情是不是一直要維持這樣的一個碳費"},{"start":120.54,"end":124.86,"text":"我覺得環境部也應該要去思考 我們應該是階段性的處理"},{"start":125.26,"end":130.38,"text":"那這個國際上也認為 就是你這個你給企業調試期"},{"start":130.38,"end":134.86,"text":"但是你要有一個合理的碳費 你可能才可以避免有些企業"},{"start":135.3,"end":139.34,"text":"是想要藉由這樣的一個自主的計畫來規避"},{"start":139.34,"end":141.86,"text":"它真正要去減碳的這項工作"},{"start":142.26,"end":145.38,"text":"那特別是這一波的這個收的費用裡面呢"},{"start":145.38,"end":149.98,"text":"我們可以看到 我們台灣是半導體產業的國家"},{"start":149.98,"end":153.1,"text":"那這一次貢獻最大的就是半導體"},{"start":153.38,"end":156.98,"text":"但是它背後反應的就是 我們半導體是用電量最高"},{"start":157.26,"end":159.78,"text":"然後也是高碳排的這樣的一個產業"},{"start":159.98,"end":161.98,"text":"那它的社會責任在哪裡"},{"start":162.3,"end":168.18,"text":"那我們可以看到它這一次貢獻的 它是第一位就是佔了44.3%"},{"start":168.7,"end":173.38,"text":"那所以台灣這麼特殊 我們這麼多半導體 它的營收也很好"},{"start":173.78,"end":176.38,"text":"那是不是相對它的企業社會責任"},{"start":176.7,"end":180.29999999999998,"text":"特別是在減碳這件事情 它也應該要負相對大的責任"},{"start":180.57999999999998,"end":184.78,"text":"那我都認為這個是環境部 你們應該要進一步去思考的"},{"start":184.78,"end":189.1,"text":"第一大用戶就是半導體 第二就是電力發展的產業"},{"start":189.5,"end":192.78,"text":"那所以這些關鍵性大的產業"},{"start":193.06,"end":199.38,"text":"我們應該要怎麼樣逐步的讓它擔負起實質轉型跟減碳的責任"},{"start":199.78,"end":201.7,"text":"我覺得不能再原地踏步"},{"start":201.7,"end":206.29999999999998,"text":"所以我希望第一個針對碳價的部分 適當它是一個工具"},{"start":206.29999999999998,"end":208.29999999999998,"text":"最終目標是希望減碳"},{"start":208.5,"end":212.7,"text":"那所以在這個部分 我認為環境部應該去思考"},{"start":212.7,"end":217.1,"text":"我們已經踏出第一步 接下來怎麼樣逐步去推動 而不是再原地踏步"},{"start":217.29999999999998,"end":220.7,"text":"我覺得這個是環境部應該去思考的事情"},{"start":221.29999999999998,"end":225.89999999999998,"text":"那第二個部分要提出來就是自主減量這件事情"},{"start":226.29999999999998,"end":231.29999999999998,"text":"當然環境部認為說 這個是我們有一個積極的誘因"},{"start":231.3,"end":233.10000000000002,"text":"我們提供了這樣的一個優惠"},{"start":233.3,"end":236.3,"text":"但是在這個自主減量的計畫當中"},{"start":236.9,"end":242.3,"text":"有幾個問題 我認為是環境部也要積極去監督跟落實的"},{"start":242.5,"end":245.70000000000002,"text":"第一個就是它的資訊的透明度"},{"start":245.70000000000002,"end":248.10000000000002,"text":"就是各企業它公開的資訊"},{"start":248.3,"end":252.5,"text":"包括它預估的小減量 具體的減碳技術"},{"start":252.70000000000002,"end":255.70000000000002,"text":"還有它投入多少的經費等等"},{"start":255.9,"end":259.1,"text":"那這一些是不是都可受外界公開"},{"start":259.1,"end":263.3,"text":"特別是今天有很多我們的環團 大家其實也都很關心"},{"start":263.5,"end":268.3,"text":"之前都有提到說 這些企業自主 你真的是蠻自主的"},{"start":268.5,"end":270.3,"text":"因為我們沒有什麼監督機制"},{"start":270.5,"end":274.5,"text":"那這個部分是不是要求企業應該要更公開透明"},{"start":274.70000000000005,"end":281.90000000000003,"text":"那加上外部的一些參與 就是可以引進外部的這些公民團體"},{"start":282.1,"end":287.90000000000003,"text":"然後或者是地方所在的居民 讓他們也有表達意見的機會"},{"start":287.9,"end":292.7,"text":"我覺得這個部分 自主減量計畫 既然現在變成是你的主力"},{"start":292.9,"end":297.7,"text":"那就不能只是企業說了算 你應該要有一套好的監督機制"},{"start":297.9,"end":300.5,"text":"那另外就是你的問責機制是什麼"},{"start":300.7,"end":303.29999999999995,"text":"如果說它是先用一套計畫這樣來告訴你"},{"start":303.5,"end":304.9,"text":"但是它沒有真正這樣子做"},{"start":305.09999999999997,"end":308.29999999999995,"text":"你是不是要去追繳它這碳費折扣的差"},{"start":308.5,"end":310.7,"text":"因為它享受了政府很大的優惠"},{"start":310.9,"end":313.9,"text":"300跟50其實是差蠻多的"},{"start":314.09999999999997,"end":317.7,"text":"那如果既然享受這麼大的優惠 它應該要落實才對"},{"start":317.9,"end":322.5,"text":"那如果有企業就是享受了這樣的一個自主計畫的優惠"},{"start":322.7,"end":324.7,"text":"但是它又沒有真正落實"},{"start":324.9,"end":328.7,"text":"那這當中政府的問責機制跟監督機制"},{"start":328.9,"end":333.5,"text":"我認為也應該要再進一步的去強化"},{"start":333.7,"end":337.7,"text":"那這樣子才可以真的是達到我們減碳的目的"},{"start":337.9,"end":343.9,"text":"那最後我這邊要講 就是我們現在已經有第一筆的資金"},{"start":344.09999999999997,"end":346.5,"text":"將近50億的資金"},{"start":346.5,"end":348.5,"text":"那這一筆錢應該怎麼用"},{"start":348.7,"end":351.3,"text":"我想剛剛也有很多的專家學者提出"},{"start":351.5,"end":353.5,"text":"希望公正轉型協助弱勢"},{"start":353.7,"end":357.7,"text":"甚至是這個可能在公共衛生裡面改善健康"},{"start":357.9,"end":359.9,"text":"都希望可以有一個多元的運用"},{"start":360.1,"end":361.5,"text":"但是在討論基金之前"},{"start":361.7,"end":363.9,"text":"其實之前就 我希望在這件事情上"},{"start":364.1,"end":367.5,"text":"中央跟地方是不要有分歧的"},{"start":367.7,"end":370.1,"text":"應該是一體的 就大家一起來做"},{"start":370.3,"end":373.9,"text":"因為坦白講 環境部你靠的還是地方政府"},{"start":374.1,"end":376.1,"text":"很多幫你去執行跟推動"},{"start":376.1,"end":377.90000000000003,"text":"那所以之前就有地方政府"},{"start":378.1,"end":381.1,"text":"希望說這個基金他們可以有一些事"},{"start":381.3,"end":382.90000000000003,"text":"不是都是你環境部長管"},{"start":383.1,"end":386.3,"text":"有一些事你可以透過一個比較明確的計畫"},{"start":386.5,"end":389.5,"text":"你希望全國共同優先哪一些計畫來推動"},{"start":389.70000000000005,"end":392.70000000000005,"text":"然後讓地方政府他們可以實質的參與"},{"start":392.90000000000003,"end":396.5,"text":"所以等於是中央的基金加上地方的執行能量"},{"start":396.70000000000005,"end":400.1,"text":"跟加上一個明確的你的減碳的計畫"},{"start":400.3,"end":401.90000000000003,"text":"然後大家共同去推動"},{"start":402.1,"end":404.5,"text":"我覺得這樣子才能去落實"},{"start":404.9,"end":409.7,"text":"那所以我希望在這個具體減碳這件事情"},{"start":409.9,"end":412.7,"text":"這個我們的部長其實也已經承認了"},{"start":412.9,"end":415.1,"text":"現在我們綠電的轉型速度"},{"start":415.3,"end":416.5,"text":"其實沒有那麼的快"},{"start":416.7,"end":420.7,"text":"所以原本我們期待的2025"},{"start":420.9,"end":423.3,"text":"本來期望是可以達到10%"},{"start":423.5,"end":425.3,"text":"但是差一點點沒有10%"},{"start":425.5,"end":430.5,"text":"2030恐怕如果我們相關的這些減碳的行動"},{"start":430.9,"end":435.3,"text":"都沒有辦法具體更一步更進一步去落實的話"},{"start":435.5,"end":440.9,"text":"那2030我們之後訂的這些減碳目標恐怕都很難達成"},{"start":441.1,"end":442.9,"text":"因為隨著大家看到的趨勢"},{"start":443.1,"end":445.1,"text":"台灣真的我們的AI產業"},{"start":445.3,"end":448.5,"text":"我們一方面很開心就是我們其實在全球"},{"start":448.7,"end":451.5,"text":"在這部分真的是我們的亮點"},{"start":451.7,"end":454.7,"text":"但是我們也看到了AI產業的蓬勃發展"},{"start":454.9,"end":457.5,"text":"跟他們的供電的需求"},{"start":457.7,"end":459.9,"text":"跟他們本身碳排的增加"},{"start":459.9,"end":464.09999999999997,"text":"那這個都是我們在治理上面要面對的一個議題"},{"start":464.29999999999995,"end":468.29999999999995,"text":"所以我認為這個其實也不只是環境部的事情"},{"start":468.5,"end":471.5,"text":"經濟部旗下掌管這麼多的"},{"start":471.7,"end":475.5,"text":"我們的這一些大型的企業或者是中小企業"},{"start":475.7,"end":478.7,"text":"他們都應該要有屬於自己的社會責任"},{"start":478.9,"end":482.29999999999995,"text":"我們不只是營收創新高 股價創新高"},{"start":482.5,"end":488.7,"text":"那我們在這個身為地球全球的一份子"},{"start":488.7,"end":492.7,"text":"減碳已經是國際我們無法迴避的責任"},{"start":492.9,"end":496.09999999999997,"text":"所以在這件事情上希望透過今天的公聽會"},{"start":496.3,"end":500.3,"text":"也謝謝長期有這麼多團體跟專家學者在第一線"},{"start":500.5,"end":502.5,"text":"就是給政府很多的建議"},{"start":502.7,"end":507.3,"text":"那我們希望環境部可以聯合經濟部"},{"start":507.5,"end":512.3,"text":"提出更有效的 更穩健的這些減碳的積極作為"},{"start":512.5,"end":513.5,"text":"謝謝大家 謝謝"},{"start":513.7,"end":515.7,"text":"好 謝謝王昱明委員發言"},{"start":515.7,"end":522.3000000000001,"text":"待會立美局秘書長發言完畢後我們休息十分鐘"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}