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:435,"text":"包含營業保一到租用專法的營業保證金"},{"start":435,"end":438,"text":"那在中央版的社會租宅包租代管"},{"start":438,"end":440,"text":"我們還有押租金專戶"},{"start":440,"end":441,"text":"那這個部分"},{"start":441,"end":444,"text":"這個部分積蓄稅有1000多萬"},{"start":444,"end":445,"text":"造機有3000多萬"},{"start":445,"end":448,"text":"這個其實還是可以往上調的"},{"start":448,"end":449,"text":"如果他的這些押金出台"},{"start":449,"end":455,"text":"甚至我們還有我們預計本來要付給這兩家公司的一些服務費用"},{"start":455,"end":457,"text":"我們現在都已經先暫時停下來"},{"start":457,"end":460,"text":"我們就是要馬上立即保護"},{"start":460,"end":464,"text":"不管是房東或者是房客相關這些合約的問題住都中心"},{"start":464,"end":466,"text":"現在的制度已經有這些資源了"},{"start":466,"end":470,"text":"那當然委員提到了一些強化的機制"},{"start":470,"end":474,"text":"當然我會跟內政部跟地方政府大家一起來溝通"},{"start":474,"end":477,"text":"能夠再強化的我們絕對會一定會虛心的接受"},{"start":477,"end":478,"text":"然後來檢討"},{"start":478,"end":479,"text":"OK好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:22:19+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-12T10:22:20+08:00","text":"謝謝，有請劉部長。","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T10:22:20+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-12T10:22:21+08:00","text":"李委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:22:21+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-12T10:22:22+08:00","text":"還有署長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:22:20.862069+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:22:45.068966+08:00","text":"署長，你來自地方政府的局長，中央在問你這些進度，你回報以後算出來的東西，那個叫做現階段，不是草案。","quality":0.605},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:22:46.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:22:57.666667+08:00","text":"我再問你一次，賴總統承諾興建社會住宅13萬戶，現階段是多少？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-08-12T10:22:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:23:01.714286+08:00","text":"現階段我們已經核定的是2萬4,000戶。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:23:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:23:03.818182+08:00","text":"你剛剛加縣市政府的是多少？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"蔡署長長展","start":"2026-08-12T10:23:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:23:05.750000+08:00","text":"加縣市政府是3萬戶。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:23:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:23:09.714286+08:00","text":"對嘛，這是現階段，怎麼會是草案呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:23:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:23:21.764706+08:00","text":"好，今天內政部也說明得很清楚，13萬戶目標不變，但是興建的方式可能要地方政府來協助。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:23:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:23:45.833333+08:00","text":"我講一下我的選區左營、楠梓，因為產業進駐的關係，其實左營、楠梓的社宅興建，包含決標、待開工的戶數有九千多戶，接近一萬戶，這個應該是全臺灣行政區裡面最高的區之一，未來還有沒有興建的空間？","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:23:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:23:53.727273+08:00","text":"我覺得我們現在面臨的是租補的不確定性，這部分我要請部長回應。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:23:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:24:22.714286+08:00","text":"部長，財劃法修法之後，整個臺北市政府多獲得的經費是1,150億左右，高雄市只獲得757億，比原本的增加不到250億，而且必須要負擔的金額非常多。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:24:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:24:37.666667+08:00","text":"除了對高雄市不公平之外，臺北市目前對於租補的政策，還說是「中央的政策，地方要買單」，請問部長，這樣公平嗎？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:24:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:24:42.250000+08:00","text":"地方政府是不是也應該要負擔這些租補的經費？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T10:24:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:24:50.571429+08:00","text":"報告委員，到目前為止，它116年的租補負擔比例並沒有改變。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:24:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:24:51.833333+08:00","text":"這樣不公平吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:24:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:24:58.727273+08:00","text":"你多拿了那麼多經費，多拿了500億，然後租補你一塊錢都不出。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T10:25:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:25:10.600000+08:00","text":"當然委員所提的部分，我們有檢討的空間，這個檢討的空間大概會以財政收支劃分法的方式再來做檢討跟改善。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:25:11.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:25:16.750000+08:00","text":"院版的財劃法裡面有把這部分討論進去，但是立法院就是不排、不通過啊！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:25:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:25:19.823529+08:00","text":"立法院通過的就是國民黨版本的財劃法。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:25:20.176471+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:25:30.750000+08:00","text":"根據國民黨版本的財劃法，臺北市、臺中市多拿了這麼多財劃法的分配款之後，他們對租補還是不願意付出。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:25:31.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:25:38.846154+08:00","text":"他們從中央拿了那麼多預算之後，對租補還是不願意付出，這是我今天想要點出來的問題啦！","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:25:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:25:46.785714+08:00","text":"所以，部長，我們是不是還要跟地方政府喊喊話，希望地方政府也應該多付今年度、明年度的租補？","quality":0.718},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T10:25:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:26:10.764706+08:00","text":"我們再來跟地方檢討，就是原來中央所提到的租補的部分，不管是全額補助或是部分補助，無論怎麼樣，如果我們依法行政，還是要按照財政收支劃分法來執行，但是這裡面如果已經有影響到尤其是弱勢族群的話，我覺得我們需要再跟地方政府多多溝通。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T10:26:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:26:34.833333+08:00","text":"而且有些地方政府的財力其實相當不錯，如果根據大院所通過的財力分級補助，臺北市是60%、新北是70%、桃園跟臺中是80%、高雄市是85%、臺南市是90%，這是根據新的財劃法來的，但是如果每個縣市政府都不願意按照這樣的比例來分攤的話，我們也必須要有容受的空間。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T10:26:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:26:42.727273+08:00","text":"不過，我剛剛有跟委員報告過，115跟116年度到目前為止是按照現行的條件，並沒有改變。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:26:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:26:44.909091+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長，我們再來做機動式的調整。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:26:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:26:46.818182+08:00","text":"接下來我請花敬群董事長。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T10:26:46.818182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-12T10:26:49.909091+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:26:49.909091+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-12T10:26:53+08:00","text":"部長請先回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:26:53+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:27:26.736842+08:00","text":"董事長剛剛有動氣，我覺得不必要動氣，我們來把目前出事、財務狀況有問題的這家營運公司的來龍去脈解讀清楚，2017年蔡英文政府在行政院核定社會住宅興辦計畫之後，地方政府第一個委託兆基做社宅營運的是誰？","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:27:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:27:51.875000+08:00","text":"是臺北市政府；2018年當時董事長在內政部，租賃市場發展管理條例通過之後，兆基屋管才開始有大量的委託案件，不管在地方政府或中央在推動的社宅，這個是時間的脈絡。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T10:27:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:28:04.785714+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，我們社宅包租代管一共有五期，一到四期做的都是縣市政府的版本，沒有做中央政府的版本，第五期才開始做中央政府的版本。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:28:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:28:07.857143+08:00","text":"那為什麼民眾黨第一時間要跳出來做這麼多解釋？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:28:08+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:28:08.750000+08:00","text":"你要知道啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:28:08.937500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:28:10.812500+08:00","text":"就是從臺北市政府來的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:28:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:28:21.117647+08:00","text":"所以你不必動氣，因為包租代管目前是政府的政策，那政府的政策當然要有民間的配合，這個包租代管能不能營運？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:28:21.294118+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:28:28+08:00","text":"是可以的，個別公司出問題，不代表包租代管業務是有問題的。是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:28:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:28:30.428571+08:00","text":"我們必須要把這個釐清。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:28:31.833333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:28:36.857143+08:00","text":"萬一其他公司以後也有類似的問題，我們怎麼來處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:28:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:28:38.833333+08:00","text":"這是我們目前要討論的問題。是的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:28:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:28:59+08:00","text":"包含剛剛其他委員有提到援引旅行社同業的品保，或者比如健身產業，也有相關的規定，到一定金額預收多少，必須要有履約能力、要有信託等等，這些是我們馬上要來處理的問題，是不是？是。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:29:00.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:29:02.800000+08:00","text":"董事長，你覺得接下來要怎麼處理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T10:29:03.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:29:04.833333+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，當然我們現階段除了……","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:29:06.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:29:13.761905+08:00","text":"除了這些投資人之之外，目前有沒有任何的租客或房東找住都中心？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T10:29:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:29:23.857143+08:00","text":"大家只是在問接下來會怎麼樣，但是並沒有誰表達他已經受到損害了，因為服務都還在，所以這個部分持續都還在營運中。","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T10:29:24.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:29:43.800000+08:00","text":"在現在的制度底下，可以來保障房東、房客權益的資源，有依照租賃專法的營業保證金，在中央版的社會住宅包租代管，我們還有押租金專戶，這個部分寄居蟹有一千多萬、兆基有三千多萬。","quality":0.803},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:29:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:29:47.700000+08:00","text":"這個其實還是可以往上調的，如果這些押金……","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T10:29:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:29:55.846154+08:00","text":"甚至還有我們預計本來要付給這兩家公司的服務費用，我們現在都已經先暫時停下來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:29:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:30:02.826087+08:00","text":"我們就是要立即保護不管是房東或房客合約上的權益，住都中心跟內政部必須要跳出來。","quality":0.649},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T10:30:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:30:04.846154+08:00","text":"現在的制度已經有這些資源了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T10:30:05.266667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:30:16.800000+08:00","text":"當然，委員提到了一些強化的機制，我會跟內政部、地方政府大家一起來溝通，能夠再強化的，我們一定會虛心地接受，然後來檢討。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"李委員柏毅","start":"2026-08-12T10:30:17.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T10:30:17.800000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-12T10:30:18.300000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-12T10:30:22.014286+08:00","text":"下一位請王美惠委員發言質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}