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董事長 謝謝主席"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:32:59.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:33:05.777778+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們請內政部劉部長、住都中心的花董事長。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:33:05.777778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-12T11:33:08.500000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:33:08.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:33:09.750000+08:00","text":"部長好、董事長好。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:33:09.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-12T11:33:10.750000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:33:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:33:39+08:00","text":"現在包租代管的這一家寄居蟹兩手一攤，說它沒辦法提供服務了，它在全臺灣有6,640戶，根據你們給我的資料，新北市就有2,677戶，當然有包租、有代管，連同它的另外一家公司兆基，兆基的部分，中央跟地方合起來有1萬5,689戶，所以兆基加寄居蟹兩個合起來，哇！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:33:39.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:33:40+08:00","text":"數字滿大的，有2萬2,329戶。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:33:43.384615+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:33:54.692308+08:00","text":"兆基的部分我等一下再問，先問寄居蟹的部分，寄居蟹已經說它沒辦法提供服務了，請教一下，寄居蟹它沒辦法提供服務，現在轉銜的情況怎麼樣？","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:33:56.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:33:56.857143+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:33:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:34:25.800000+08:00","text":"其實所謂寄居蟹沒辦法提供服務，並不是說它現在已經完全什麼都不做了，因為他們員工現在都還在，所以他們會全力協助轉銜這件事情，基本上，這個事情我們還有一定的支持，轉銜的事情我們已經從昨天開始啟動，到現在為止，大概已經處理了……就是寄居蟹的部分，已經有超過400戶跟房東銜接上，開始處理他轉到其他業……","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:34:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:34:27.777778+08:00","text":"你說新的公司跟……","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:34:28.384615+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:34:37.833333+08:00","text":"轉銜就是把寄居蟹的6,600個案件轉給六都正在做社宅包租代管的其他業者。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:34:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:34:39.777778+08:00","text":"他們自己去找這些業者就對了？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:34:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:03.714286+08:00","text":"我們透過平臺，讓房東主動表達他希望哪一家業者來銜接他，如果他沒有熟悉的業者，那我們會依照業者的名單排序去輪動，第一個來就先找第一家，第二個來就找第二家，平均分散，到目前為止已經有超過400個案子開始銜接了。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:04.833333+08:00","text":"可是還有六千多戶。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:06.818182+08:00","text":"對，我們昨天才開始。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:10.750000+08:00","text":"好，那你預計多久時間可以轉銜完這六千多戶？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:10.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:12.250000+08:00","text":"我們預計應該一個月之內可以處理完成。","quality":0.176},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:12.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:14.750000+08:00","text":"一個月之內可以處理完成？","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:16.818182+08:00","text":"一個月之內可以處理完成。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:31.818182+08:00","text":"因為這個轉銜包含租金跟押金的問題，所以現在大家比較擔心的是，不論是房東還是房客，因為有包租、有代管，那租金的問題怎麼辦？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:32.083333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:32.916667+08:00","text":"已經付出去的租金怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:33.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:34.833333+08:00","text":"已經付出去的押金怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:35.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:37.800000+08:00","text":"這些都會轉給新接的公司嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:43.777778+08:00","text":"其實代管比較單純，因為代管的租金本來就付給房東了，所以只是服務的部分……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:44.750000+08:00","text":"對，代管比較單純，包租比較……","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:46.750000+08:00","text":"包租稍微複雜一點。對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:35:53.750000+08:00","text":"因為業者還是要按時間付房租給原房東，然後再向房客收房租。對。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:35:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:36:06.687500+08:00","text":"所以這個部分，我剛剛講了，寄居蟹的員工就會協助這些案子跟未來要新銜接的業者做彼此之間該怎麼樣結算的動作。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:36:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:36:13.727273+08:00","text":"其實最大的問題就在這邊，就是說換了業者，那租約、租金、押金該怎麼辦？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:36:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:36:37.750000+08:00","text":"押金比較單純，押金的部分，原來寄居蟹付給原房東的押金就等於他跟房客收的押金，所以說當房東和房客都轉到新的業者底下，其實只要把這些押金的關係同步銜接，大家簽好彼此的契約，結束之前跟寄居蟹的契約，然後那個押金就過去了。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:36:38.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:36:59.666667+08:00","text":"而租金的部分就是看什麼時候開始起租，只是大家把租期再……因為對於租約，我們是照原契約銜接，不可以調漲租金，而且不要再去更動契約，所以說實質上是在相對變動最小的情況下做這個移動。好。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:37:00.187500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:37:02.812500+08:00","text":"這幾天讓我們把裡面的實務操作好。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:37:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:37:05.850000+08:00","text":"一個月的時間，六千多戶，你認為可以轉銜成功就對了？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:37:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:37:16.714286+08:00","text":"我不敢講百分之百，因為有些房東可能有自己的想法，要退出社宅包租代管等等，我們都會尊重。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:37:18.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:37:26.875000+08:00","text":"好，我就請教部長，所以政府能不能向房東、房客保證「租金不會中斷，租約也不會中斷，押金也會拿得回來」？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:37:27+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:37:47.812500+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們現在跟各個，尤其是六都的縣市政府，就是有這樣的共識，我們已經有提到，就是房東跟房客的權益不會受到影響，已經有提出這樣的保證，所以六都的租服公會才會願意介入所謂的轉銜機制，住都中心都在積極協助當中。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:37:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:37:57+08:00","text":"民眾不論是房東還是房客，參加包租代管不是只有相信業者，其實是相信政府。是。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:37:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:38:11.150000+08:00","text":"因為是政府在推這個政策，所以剛剛部長的答復至少讓房東、房客有信心，就是這個會按照出事之前的情況，權利義務不會改變就對了？是的。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:38:11.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:38:36.833333+08:00","text":"而且我們也公布六都的服務窗口，這是公務部門，不是租金補貼的租服公會，公會的電話號碼跟單一窗口都有，如果有任何諮詢方面的問題都可以打來問，目前為止，來問的情況並沒有外界想像當中的那麼多，也就是他們了解裡面房東、房客的權益沒有受到影響之後，大概就比較好。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:38:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:38:38.714286+08:00","text":"好，這個是寄居蟹。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:38:39.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:38:45.850000+08:00","text":"我現在問一下兆基，兆基算是未爆彈，你們有沒有去了解一下兆基的情況怎麼樣？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:38:46.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:38:47.833333+08:00","text":"兆基為什麼是未爆彈？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:38:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:39:03.666667+08:00","text":"因為本來的董事長現在已經被押起來了，本來還有宏碁的人員要進去，結果宏碁的人發現裡面有問題之後，兩天就辭掉了。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:39:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:39:08.888889+08:00","text":"表示他知道兆基有問題，所以你們有沒有去了解兆基的問題所在？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:39:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:39:12.714286+08:00","text":"因為我很擔心它會成為一個未爆彈，而且它的量更大。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:39:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:39:32.800000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，兆基第一任銜接的董事長是王進祥先生，他是原董事，後來是宏碁派任的李文詳董事長，這是第二任董事，前天他們的臨時董事會又指派了王貴增代理總經理。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:39:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:39:47.791667+08:00","text":"其實這兩位董事長跟代理總經理上任的第一天，我就立刻約詢他們，詳細了解他們所掌握的狀況，接著他們在任幾天，我就是每天都跟他們保持聯繫。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:39:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:39:50.800000+08:00","text":"所以他們發現問題很大，跑掉了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:39:51.705882+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:39:54.764706+08:00","text":"董事長，你這邊有了解問題所在嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:39:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:40:15.866667+08:00","text":"我知道，其實這些部分大家在媒體上也都看到了，例如前天兆基的帳戶可能被銀行變成警示帳戶，當然我就會再繼續追問他們怎麼處理，昨天下午他們已經把警示帳戶的問題解決，所以現在帳戶已經不是警示帳戶了。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:40:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:40:17.666667+08:00","text":"它現在是資金缺口的問題。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:40:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:40:30.842105+08:00","text":"對，就我的了解，他們今天正要跟銀行團談資金，包括他們的負債跟他們的帳戶之間怎麼樣把融資……原來融資的銀行是不是還同意繼續融資給他？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:40:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:40:33.785714+08:00","text":"還是由其他銀行銜接新的融資？","quality":1},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:40:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:40:45.823529+08:00","text":"今天正在談，所以今天如果談出一個結果，我們都會第一時間馬上了解狀況如何，他們也會對外說明，因為昨天我跟他們新的代理總經理講了。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:40:46.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:40:50.812500+08:00","text":"那我簡單問董事長好了，看起來你很了解兆基的情況……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:40:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:40:57.800000+08:00","text":"我不了解太多的債務問題，但是公司現在的運作，我們當然一定要充分掌握。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:40:58.238095+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:41:02.761905+08:00","text":"所以你能保證兆基不會成為下一個寄居蟹嗎？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:41:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:41:04.777778+08:00","text":"我沒有辦法保證，其實……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:41:05.142857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:41:06.857143+08:00","text":"你沒辦法保證，大家就頭很大啦！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:41:07.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:41:17.777778+08:00","text":"其實所有兆基現在的營運團隊，大家都沒有辦法百分之百……但是大家都在努力的……","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:41:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:41:22.733333+08:00","text":"那你有沒有一個最壞的打算，如果兆基也跟寄居蟹一樣，兩手一攤說我沒有辦法……","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:41:23+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:41:26.777778+08:00","text":"我沒有權力去保證，我保證是虛的、是假的，我的保證是虛、是假。","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:41:27.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:41:29.750000+08:00","text":"你今天是在負責這一塊。是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:41:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:41:36.800000+08:00","text":"所以我不希望就像寄居蟹一樣，未來我們政府就是擦屁股，應該要防患未然於先嘛！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:41:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:41:42.800000+08:00","text":"就是說現在已經知道它有問題了，那有採取什麼樣的手段，讓這個問題不要發生？當然……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:41:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:41:43.900000+08:00","text":"這才是我們現在要做的啊！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:41:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:42:02.750000+08:00","text":"所以我們現在對寄居蟹這些轉銜處理的機制，一旦我們發現兆基……假設它真的不穩定了，我們就開始啟動兆基的專案轉銜，針對這些案子，我們跟六都地方政府就來啟動，讓這些房東、房客的權益仍然不能受損。","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:42:03.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:42:04.750000+08:00","text":"現在我們也對於……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:42:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:42:08.368421+08:00","text":"我的意思是說你們能不能防範兆基不要成為下一個寄居蟹？","quality":0.48},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:42:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:42:09.833333+08:00","text":"這才比較有用嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:42:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:42:17+08:00","text":"如果又像寄居蟹這樣倒了，然後兩手一攤，又要政府來擦屁股……部長要補充？","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:42:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:42:28.666667+08:00","text":"委員，我這樣回應好了，兆基也好、寄居蟹也好，他們的負責人因為金流出了狀況，該抓去關就抓去關，我們完全尊重。對。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:42:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:42:54.705882+08:00","text":"但是因為它是社宅包租代管的公司，所以站在內政部的立場，我們會要確保房東跟房客的權益沒有受改變，也就是說，房客繼續住在原地方，房東還是繼續收房租，然後應該有的服務還是要照常，這些我們都有跟寄居蟹，還有兆基裡面的相關人員做了比較好的溝通。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:42:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:43:16.833333+08:00","text":"更何況您所擔心的兆基的部分，是地方政府跟中央政府剛好一個人一半，一個是七千多戶，一個是八千多戶，所以我剛剛有特別提到，我非常謝謝縣市政府願意跟我們站在一起，就是確保房東、房客的權益不受改變，這是屬於公共服務上面的不打折，這我們做得到！","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:43:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:43:32.800000+08:00","text":"但是如果兆基公司跟寄居蟹公司他們自己違反了公司法，或是金融銀行業的管理條例的話，他們就應該接受司法檢查跟偵查，這是我們都完全尊重的！","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:43:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:43:41.750000+08:00","text":"所以我們把它做比較好的分別處理的時候，在過去三、四天以來，我們都是按照這樣的方向在處理，沒有改變！","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:43:42.133333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:43:45.777778+08:00","text":"您擔心的是萬一兆基也倒了，兆基倒是怎麼一回事？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:43:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:44:22.789474+08:00","text":"第一個，下面公司的人不願意跟大家一起把兆基所服務的這一萬五千多個服務對象一起服務，但是就我們所了解，他們仍然願意服務，既然他們願意服務的話，不管他們新的經營團隊，第一個他們要去回答銀行團對他們的質疑，他們要回答金流是否有失控的問題，但是他們的經營團隊要跟我們內政部、跟住都中心保證，下面的客戶，不管是房東的客戶或房客的客戶，他們的權益不受打折跟改變，目前為止我們知道是沒有這方面的問題。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:44:23.181818+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:44:30.666667+08:00","text":"我剛剛也跟委員回答到，如果它確實有問題的話，我們第四期應該撥付給它的款項，我們就會終止。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:44:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:44:32.818182+08:00","text":"主席，我再問最後一個問題。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:44:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:44:50.272727+08:00","text":"現在住都中心你們也認為未來單一業者承作比例要檢討，就是說，是不是對於單一業者的承作上限，還有關係企業能夠合併計算，不能讓公司拆成不同法人之後規避集中管理？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:44:50.454545+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:45:10+08:00","text":"這部分我會跟內政部國土署、地政司，還有公會，大家再來協商怎麼樣的操作會比較穩定，一方面也能夠激勵業者努力的推案子，一方面又能夠確保產業的穩定，這部分容我們再討論之後，再來跟委員做說明，好嗎？好。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:45:10.937500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:45:17.705882+08:00","text":"像兆基或是寄居蟹，你們過去有沒有去查他們財務的狀況？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:45:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:45:34.857143+08:00","text":"我們沒有權力去查他公司的財務，我們都會針對他們業務的推動狀況，支付房東該付的房租有沒有付，或是該付給房客的一些修繕補助費，我們這些當然都有完全的掌握，這個都沒有問題。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:45:35.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:45:40.800000+08:00","text":"所以像兆基跟寄居蟹，他們類似吸金的這個問題，你們是哪時候才知道的？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"花董事長敬群","start":"2026-08-12T11:45:44.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:45:51.800000+08:00","text":"約略當然有聽到，大家外面有在說，但是問題是如此的複雜，我們完全意料之外。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:45:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:45:53.428571+08:00","text":"這個也要注意。是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:45:53.714286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:46:26.500000+08:00","text":"當然不是只有內政部，我想可能連財政部、金管會都要一起來協助，把這個東西當作一個教材，如何防範未來有這種公司，因為他覺得反正他跟房東都很熟，他都有名單，然後類似這種高利息，吸引大家進來，結果他就跑掉了，這是類似一個吸金的情況，我覺得這個案例要去避免，如何跟我剛才講的相關部會去做合作，可能內政部沒辦法去查他內部的財務狀況，但是其他部會可以，好不好？部長。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2026-08-12T11:46:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:46:44.846154+08:00","text":"委員，關於這個部分，我們跟各地縣市政府在開會的過程當中，也有請經濟部，還有請金管會來列席，告訴縣市地方政府，我們應該有的權益保障在哪裡，所以他們大概都了解這個狀況。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:46:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:46:45.666667+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2026-08-12T11:46:46+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-12T11:46:47.818182+08:00","text":"謝謝部長、謝謝董事長、謝謝主席。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-12T11:46:48.318182+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-12T11:46:52.032468+08:00","text":"下一位請徐欣瑩委員發言質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}