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散會宣讀完畢"},{"start":1722.806,"end":1741.765,"text":"好那我們先介紹在場委員首先介紹我們召委李坤澤召委現在介紹列席人員交通部陳士凱部長以及交通部公共運輸監理司廖錦智副司長"},{"start":1743.582,"end":1767.914,"text":"陸政道安司吳東林司長綜合規劃司張垂榮司長法治處許鴻達處長鐵道局楊振軍局長公路局林福山局長高速公路局陳文瑞局長運輸研究所黃興勳所長"},{"start":1771.547,"end":1798.957,"text":"觀光署黃和廷副所長台鐵公司馮輝昇總經理教育部中生教育師專門委員紀賢陽專委內政部國土管理署游元順總工程師警政署交通署陳朝欣副組長"},{"start":1801.664,"end":1827.627,"text":"鐵路警察局廖國正副局長消防署救災救護署陳世勳副組長以及衛生福利部國民健康署陳立堅檢任記者還有環境部化學物質管理署李秉雄主任秘書法務部謝志明參事"},{"start":1830.856,"end":1849.892,"text":"司法院行政訴訟懲戒廳林靜超法官勞動部職業安全衛生署陳志祺副組長國家運輸安全調查委員會林佩達執行長原住民組委員會社會福利處洪林副處長好"},{"start":1858.101,"end":1862.73,"text":"來 現在委員人數已達那請教各位在場委員對議事錄有沒有意見"},{"start":1864.769,"end":1890.694,"text":"謝謝沒有意見我們議事錄確認本日會議進行行人優先安行人優先交通安全行動綱領實施兩年來改善檢討及淡江大橋通車活動規劃辦理情形之專題報告及澳路交通管理處罰條例大眾捷運法鐵路法等修正草案之逐條審查我們先沒有"},{"start":1893.404,"end":1910.135,"text":"好那接下來就請列席機關來報告首先請交通部陳士凱部長報告主席各位委員先生女士大家好今天應"},{"start":1911.844,"end":1928.397,"text":"應邀列席貴委員會就我國行人優先交通安全行動綱領實施兩年來改善行人地域具體成效即臺灣測速照相機密度精準度速度限制"},{"start":1929.554,"end":1951.917,"text":"等精進檢討以及淡江大橋通車活動規劃等等兩岸進行報告敬請各位委員指教這兩年來交通部以行人安全為最優先積極推動道安三支建包括入口設施的改善照明的提升以及加強隔熱值的管理等等"},{"start":1952.599,"end":1958.394,"text":"並且持續推動道路與交通設施的改善以提供友善安全的用路環境為目標並且"},{"start":1960.612,"end":1984.21,"text":"特別針對學校的周邊偏鄉和高齡以及弱勢族群加強安全的防護讓全民行得更安全另外交通部也積極透過宣傳媒體合作讓用路人更有正確的觀念推廣停讓文化並持續和中央地方政府以及民間團體密切合作"},{"start":1984.83,"end":1998.795,"text":"建立良好的用路文化藉由與民間企業全體國民的參與達成2030降低整體以及行人死亡人數50%的目標關於速度管理"},{"start":2000.239,"end":2017.288,"text":"提升道路安全以及行車效率都是政府努力改善交通環境的目標在安全的前提之下建議民眾可以就認為速限設定不合理的路段向道路主管機關提出建議後由主管機關"},{"start":2019.062,"end":2044.342,"text":"就各面向来评估并且调整速限以确保效率以及安全的兼顾行政院于103年核定淡江大桥计划主要的目标希望能够改善淡水台二线逐维路段交通拥塞并且向北延伸台61线快速公路系统以强化北海岸道路功能并且促进区域发展"},{"start":2045.222,"end":2066.273,"text":"主橋工程已經在今年的9月16號順利完成橋的合攏整體進度都在工程的工期裡面在推動當中目前正進行橋面的鋪設以及景觀燈柱的安裝 鎖力調整以及塔吊拆除"},{"start":2068.081,"end":2073.191,"text":"預計完成旅館的程序跟通車的條件之後將會在明年也就是115年的5月9日舉辦通車典禮並在5月12日正式開放通車"},{"start":2081.311,"end":2102.985,"text":"以利民眾體驗淡江大橋完工的成果公路局規劃可開放安全橋面場域辦理通車前體驗活動包括路跑 自行車以及文化展演 音樂會民眾上橋體驗等等的活動將會在明年的5月9號通車典禮之前"},{"start":2103.826,"end":2131.488,"text":"有一段時間可以供地方政府或者是民間團體共同來參與並且規劃辦理活動為了確保淡江大橋通車之後整體周邊交通功能以及順利辦理通車前體驗活動公路局已經跟新北市政府共同成立跨機構的橫向聯繫平台以利中央與地方共同來合作順利推動各項通車之前的活動以上"},{"start":2132.498,"end":2156.975,"text":"是本部對於行人安全改善與速度管理的立場以及決心以及淡江大橋後續通車活動規劃的簡單說明接下來再請本部陸正刀安司吳司長以及公路局林局長分別向各位委員針對兩項報告進行詳細的說明再次感謝各位委員的關心與指教謝謝"},{"start":2161.889,"end":2163.2,"text":"好 我們先請陸正思市長請"},{"start":2170.424,"end":2199.193,"text":"主席 各位委員 各位先進 大家早今天應邀到貴委員會進行行人優先交通安全行動綱領實施兩年以來改善行人地域的具體成效即臺灣測速照相機密度精準度以及速限制度的精進檢討提出專案報告並就一百一十四年的道路交通安全改善作為一併說明僅此敬請各位委員不吝指教"},{"start":2200.546,"end":2218.238,"text":"近年來隨著車輛科技的快速進步國人自用小客車的比例持有比例持續的攀升整體道路交通量較以往明顯增加所以面臨的交通問題也隨之提升其中道路速限議題在國內有高度的關注跟討論"},{"start":2219.399,"end":2240.596,"text":"考量速限的管理是維持行車安全的重要基礎雖然調升速限有助於提升整個運輸的效率可是可能會升高整個事故風險跟事故的嚴重程度因此必須要審慎的評估務必在追求效率的同時也必須考量安全兩者之間要取得適當的平衡"},{"start":2241.457,"end":2254.754,"text":"二 道路安全的防治作為 道路交通安全是民眾關切的重要議題 交通部攜手各部會跟地方政府執行多項的道路交通安全的改善措施 相關的成果分數如下"},{"start":2257.296,"end":2273.264,"text":"113年道路交通安全的改善成果113年道路交通在道路事故上死亡的人數是2950人是近3年的最低另外行人死亡是366人也是自97年來的歷年的最低"},{"start":2274.184,"end":2296.124,"text":"一百一十四年道路交通安全改善成果一百一十四年一到八月的死亡人數是一千八百一十九人行人死亡人數是兩百二十七人都呈現下降的趨勢但是交通部還是會持續努力推動相關的道安的改善措施交通部在一百一十四年強化行人交通安全的事故的防治盡盡作為"},{"start":2297.705,"end":2321.762,"text":"重點分數如下 首先是道安山間增加路口停止線跟行川線的最小距離 其次是省道的路口照明的改善 第三是加強汽車隔熱紙的透光度的管理 二工程面首先是提升 永續提升人行安全計畫 至今年十月底已經完成了一千九百零一處的行人路口改善"},{"start":2323.024,"end":2344.705,"text":"人行道的改善長度是216公里我們也減少了700處的路側障礙物在校園周邊跟行車安全道路上面改善了199處 二推動省道交通工程改善作業 至今年10月底已經完成了4,345處的省道路口改善還有照明強化的路口是291處"},{"start":2346.667,"end":2374.954,"text":"三 完善道安的政策計畫跟法規透過相關的技術標準的檢討精進會議我們跟地方政府還有學界共同確認交通工程的規範等來修正條文的可行性跟精準度三 教育宣導面向依據道路交通法規的修正還有重要的重要的道安的政策等議題交通部規劃了宣導的主題並且針對不同的目標族群辦理宣導作業跟活動"},{"start":2375.934,"end":2390.779,"text":"是監理面在運輸業的管理上面我們定期召開各區定期邀集各區監理所跟地方政府召開檢視業者實施實施情形跟檢討成效並且針對貨運商業跟遊覽車客運業比較有高危險高違規的駕駛人檢討整個專案的調訓"},{"start":2398.041,"end":2413.333,"text":"二 在駕駛訓練部分 辦理機車駕訓輔助跟道安的道路交通安全的駕駛訓練 而且新增了危險感知頻量的體驗題目同時也規劃試辦機車考前的道路訓練跟提供參訓的補助"},{"start":2415.484,"end":2440.982,"text":"三 在速率的 速限的檢討機制的作為上面 在交通事故中速度是直接影響事故的發生的機率 還有嚴重程度的重要因素所以在安全的考量下 交通部跟內政部訂有道路設計的規範依據速限不可以高於設計速率 以及大區段的統一速率原則還有其他的因素來訂定整個道路的速限"},{"start":2441.863,"end":2467.21,"text":"另外為了建立整個樹線檢討的機制交通部公路局已經在一百一十一年完成了檢討國內外道路樹線訂定的原則研究計畫就我國的道路樹線研擬的樹線訂定原則樹線調整因素還有樹線訂定機制跟流程是在地方地方政府的道路樹線調整的部分依據地方的自治法"},{"start":2467.99,"end":2484.097,"text":"地方的道路的規劃建設跟管理都是地方自治的事項但為了協助地方政府來進行道路速限的檢討交通部公路局也把前面剛才所提到的研究計畫函請各個縣市政府作為調整道路速限的參考"},{"start":2485.177,"end":2500.465,"text":"另外為了針對特定的路段的樹線的建議民眾可以透過民意信箱 首長民意信箱建議各個道路主管機關進行檢討另外交通部公路局也建立了我要通報路口改善的網頁"},{"start":2501.565,"end":2518.535,"text":"若民眾對於道路速限有任何的提議也可以透過這個網頁來反映後續將會把相關的建議交給權責機關來處理五 給予交通部落實各項道路交通安全的政策強化性能保護跟事故防止作為以建初步的成效"},{"start":2519.435,"end":2540.762,"text":"我們後續會持續來推動道路交通安全行動方案朝向2030年整體道路事故跟行人死亡人數降低50%的目標邁進另外就道路速限的相關議題因為涉及交通安全跟運輸效率等面向交通部公路局已經建立整個速限的檢討機制跟標準化的流程"},{"start":2541.662,"end":2562.873,"text":"並且提供各縣市政府參考 未來若地方政府對於速限的調整 在實務上有相關的建議或需要支援交通部也會積極提供協助 以其達成兼顧道路安全跟交通效率的目標 以上敬請各委員指教好 謝謝 再請公路局林局長"},{"start":2568.716,"end":2592.63,"text":"主席 各位委員 那以下請就丹江大橋通車活動的規劃辦理進行 進行報告說明丹江大橋主要是為了解決台二線竹尾路段長期這個用塞的問題那這個延伸台六十一線向北這個快速公路的一個系統那另外一個部分的話是強化北海岸地區整體的交通的一個功能"},{"start":2593.11,"end":2621.349,"text":"所以這個淡江大橋興建計畫行政院在103年核定淡江大橋建設計畫那計畫經費是230.38億元由交通部公務局及國土署還有新北市政府三方共同負擔淡江大橋整體工程的一個計畫全長6公里那雙向四車道配置那主橋並預留這個捷運輕軌的系統是一座公路與這個軌道共用的這個"},{"start":2623.43,"end":2649.481,"text":"這一個橋樑系統那這個另外一個部分燈窗大橋也是完善這個區域入網與提升港區運輸效能重要的一個這個工程那本計畫分為三標辦理那第一標第二標都已經通車那我們現在看到第三標是跨淡水河的主橋工程那目前是進度是88.41那全計畫將以明年5月來通車為這個目標"},{"start":2651.582,"end":2674.307,"text":"那丹江大橋的一個這個工程特色的部分主要是由這個普利茲克建築獎得主扎哈帝建築團隊來規劃設計那整個這個橋形的部分是採流線造型跟單塔不對稱斜張橋的一個形式那是兼具工程力學與景觀這一個美學主塔大概這個200多公尺"},{"start":2674.747,"end":2695.918,"text":"那因為要這個考慮巴黎日出及淡水西照視角的這個部分那整個這個塔位的一個這個規劃是有經過特別的規劃那整個這個未來橋的一個系統的話會搭配季節性的燈光設計讓淡江大橋兼具交通功能及這個景觀特色的一個國際地標"},{"start":2697.739,"end":2721.496,"text":"登江大橋工程從施作以來 那各項這個關鍵的構建都依序來做這個完成 包括主塔的建置這個鞋鎖全面的施拉 那在今年9月16號也順利完成全橋合龍 目前正全力鑽桿工進 那後續依序進行橋面固實這個力清鋪設的作業 景觀"},{"start":2722.617,"end":2744.528,"text":"登柱安裝鋼纜鎖力調整還有這個鋼鎖報告高達這個200多公尺塔調拆除及這個全橋載重的一個試驗那後面這個大概明年3月以後全線包括台六十線高架及紮道等等的部分會依序來辦理這個旅館的一個作業那這個時間點會到這個5月上旬"},{"start":2746.929,"end":2761.504,"text":"那所以整個旅館達到這個通車條件之後我們現在預計是在明年5月9號舉辦通車典禮那5月12號正式開放通車那目前針對丹江大橋通車前相關活動的一個這個規劃"},{"start":2762.705,"end":2780.821,"text":"那最主要是這個國人對於這個淡江大橋其實有蠻高的一個這個期待另外一個部分因為淡江大橋這個完工通車之後將成為國門的這個新地標所以當時在規劃的時候也考量到希望說這個民眾在正式通車前可以感受這個淡江大橋的一個結構設計跟河口的一個景觀"},{"start":2784.244,"end":2798.785,"text":"所以公務局將在三階段通車勘驗及調整優化期間在確保場域安全無異的前提下妥善運用可開放的橋面空間及時段來規劃辦理通車前系列體驗的一個活動那"},{"start":2800.487,"end":2817.742,"text":"這個公務局目前規劃的部分大概主要有6項活動那目前包括目前已公告在明年4月18號的路跑活動4月19號的自行車這個活動那其他在規劃中的活動有包括開幕大遊行星空音樂展演通車典禮等這個晚會"},{"start":2818.803,"end":2830.969,"text":"那希望到時可以跟民眾共同來體驗這個淡江大橋的一個這個成果那並藉由這個通俗典禮來表揚參與本大橋的一個工程施工團隊相關的一個人員"},{"start":2832.489,"end":2860.47,"text":"那為了讓這個丹江大橋通車後整體周邊交通功能更加完善而且順利辦理完成相關通車前的這個民眾體驗的一個這個活動公務局跟新北市政府以共同成立跨機關通車系列活動橫向聯繫平臺來分工協力這個合作確保通車前各項活動順利推動並完善這個整體通車之後的交通的一個環境"},{"start":2861.411,"end":2888.474,"text":"最後要跟各位報告的是淡江大橋確實是北臺灣重要的交通建設完工通車後將有效提升區域入網的效率強化北海岸交通韌性並帶動淡水 巴黎及臺北港周邊整體發展工務局將持續依既定時程推動工程最後階段的作業確保明年這個如期如止安全通車的一個目標 以上報告進行指教"},{"start":2890.848,"end":2916.287,"text":"好 謝謝那交通部已經報告完畢那其餘機關所送來的書面報告我們就列入記錄刊登公報那在進入到巡查之前因為今天還有在場委員有新提案那我們一併下午來做逐條討論所以我們先請法案的提案委員來做提案說明請黃建豪委員我們以三分鐘為限好不好 謝謝"},{"start":2923.905,"end":2938.036,"text":"好 謝謝主席各位首長跟委員本期今天提的是道交條例第31支1條的修正草案那當然道交條例第31支1條主要是針對過去比較強調的是開車跟騎車手持手機的相關的罰款"},{"start":2939.097,"end":2957.999,"text":"本年今天提出來是針對開車騎車期間持有香煙抽煙等等這個行為來加重相關的罰款因為我想抽煙本身當然對他個人的行為對他個人健康有影響之外比較多民眾在反映的第一個當然騎車的部分對於周邊的旁邊的這些二手煙的傷害比較大"},{"start":2958.559,"end":2984.31,"text":"另外對於開車騎車的時候他因為點煙 持煙或者是因為香煙掉落等等的有的最近包含說加熱煙包含電子煙等等的管制非常的也沒有很明確所以很多人開車騎車期間可能不只傳統香煙他包含加熱煙包含電子煙等等的都會成為他開車期間分析的原因之一本期引用了2019年日本有一份在日本流行病學雜誌的一個長期研究"},{"start":2984.67,"end":3010.327,"text":"他招募了97000名的日本的居民年齡從40到79歲做了一個20年的1993到2013年長期的追蹤那這邊的這個期刊的論文的最後的結論是比起不吸菸者如果每天吸菸少於20隻者發生交通事故的死亡率比不吸菸者高出32%那如果一天超過20隻就是有眼影重大的這些群體"},{"start":3010.967,"end":3024.771,"text":"他在交通事故開車騎車發生的事故死亡率比不吸菸者高出了54%所以不管從國民健康的角度還是從這個開車騎車用路人安全的角度本席都認為這個開車騎車期間來吸菸或者點菸的行為"},{"start":3029.372,"end":3055.729,"text":"比起这个开车骑车时间持有手机或讲电话的话我想这个等他的这个状况影响交通安全的情况是一致的所以本局认为说在相关的罚还标准上面在开车骑车持有手机罚还3000元但是开车骑车在点烟或抽烟的这个罚还只有600元我想这个相关的罚役距离有点大所以本席把这个相关的罚还提高那以上说明希望这个委员会能够支持以上谢谢"},{"start":3058.8,"end":3085.713,"text":"好 謝謝黃建豪委員提案說明本日會議專題報告之詢答先宣告以下事項一 詢答時間出席委員6分鐘 列席委員4分鐘二 委員發言登記於10點30分截止三 各位委員如有臨時提案請於10點前提出 以便議事人員會診四 休息時間適當時間來宣布首先請登記第一位李昆哲委員發言"},{"start":3092.543,"end":3104.935,"text":"謝謝召委 請一下陳部長還有林文山局長 楊振軍局長還有黃和廷副署長陳部長 林局長 楊局長以及副署長請"},{"start":3110.218,"end":3134.725,"text":"部長好 針對今天質詢的主題在質詢之前我有兩個問題想要先請教一下陳部長就是高鐵現在每天搭乘的人次已經是高達21萬5000人搭乘的人越來越多但是高鐵的行車異常事件也越來越多在11月28"},{"start":3137.898,"end":3156.956,"text":"快要到台中的時候就是1號5車次我也在這一班的車次上面就是說主變電站號稱這個電力的壓降造成雖然電力沒有跳脫但是快到台中站的時候有煞車而且停了一下子才緩緩的進入"},{"start":3158.442,"end":3176.769,"text":"台中車站那車上的乘客大家是議論紛紛然後在12月2號通訊系統的異常雖然有啟動備援機制但是至少有4班次他是延誤超過30分鐘以上影響是超過2000人"},{"start":3178.72,"end":3193.106,"text":"我要提醒部長是說2024年一整年它的行車異常事件有25件但是今年2025年1到11月已經有39件如果再加上12月2號"},{"start":3194.554,"end":3212.629,"text":"就已經有40件但所展現的它已經不是個別事件的問題我認為是系統性 結構性高鐵的行車安全出現了問題來 部長你要怎麼去督促鐵道局還有台鐵高鐵公司來維護這樣的一個基本的行車安全"},{"start":3213.169,"end":3216.771,"text":"是 報告委員這幾年確實我們有觀察到112年有36件113年27件那今年已經加上剛剛委員所說的12月的已經到達40件那我們高鐵也確實營運了將近20年的這個時間我們有些系統"},{"start":3228.798,"end":3251.51,"text":"是不是應該要更新或者是應該要注意它的維修的層面我們近期已經請鐵道局很專注的跟高鐵公司來研討跟研商這個問題這個議題因為這個延誤的狀況越來越多是我們很擔心的一方面是時間上可能會去拖延到影響到民眾行的權利二方面我們也擔心是安全上面會不會有其他的疑慮"},{"start":3252.43,"end":3270.265,"text":"那所以高鐵的車速這麼快的狀況底下我們認為所有的安全的系統跟所有的電控系統跟維修系統都必須要完備也必須要有百分之百的令人信任度這個部分請部長督促鐵道局還有高鐵公司必須要將這個行車的安全"},{"start":3270.965,"end":3300.128,"text":"要嚴謹的來做一個處理跟督促另外國旅的部分部長在11月中旬有提到說在明年要推動這個平日國旅的相關的優惠方案包括平日的住宿優惠方案生日的住宿優惠方案或是遊樂園的留宿方案還有企業員工國內旅遊的獎勵方案還有台灣PASS的平日國旅的相關的優惠方案我現在要請教一下部長"},{"start":3301.068,"end":3325.408,"text":"我們大概什麼時候要實施然後相關的預算你大概有沒有一個來跟社會大眾來做初步的說明跟委員報告對於明年的這個國旅的促進的計畫我們官方署已經列了一些希望能夠擴大內需的一些方案跟計畫我們是很希望預算如果能夠順利通過的話我們希望在明年的三月之後可以開始來實施"},{"start":3326.189,"end":3349.638,"text":"明年3月 那預算的金額大概多少我們整體預算大概是23億左右我們有23億的預算希望鼓勵國人在平日能夠多旅遊在生日能夠多旅遊甚至是遊樂園也希望大家能夠去玩我有兩個細節的問題想要請教一下黃副署長在這邊你們的這個平日住宿的優惠方案"},{"start":3350.659,"end":3357.356,"text":"還有生日的住宿優惠方案是都要登記還要抽籤是不是這樣 那個程序如何進行啊"},{"start":3358.829,"end":3384.183,"text":"是 報告委員那目前平日住宿我們是從4月1號開始那這個部分的話就是要先去做登錄然後是用抽籤的方式那生日的住宿的話是從明年1月1號開始然後每個月會抽出1000名然後每一位都有1200的這樣的一個住宿這個相關在實施之前必須要做好相關的宣導"},{"start":3385.043,"end":3393.034,"text":"不管是細節要盡速的說明資訊也要正確然後相關的程序要盡量的簡單這個要讓民眾樂於接近這樣的相關的一個資訊另外"},{"start":3400.061,"end":3416.53,"text":"這種國旅的優惠方案當然是有助於相關的國內旅遊的一個推動那但是我認為部分措施是不是能夠再加強以生日住宿這個優惠方案來說你每個月抽出一千名的國人"},{"start":3417.31,"end":3439.179,"text":"然後補助是一千兩百元那一年總共才一萬兩千的國人有這樣的一個抽到的機會那總機會也才一千四百四十萬能不能人數增加或者是這個金額增加或者是人數跟金額都增加來說明一下"},{"start":3440.29,"end":3461.146,"text":"是那跟委員報告那目前因為我們是做整體方案的一個規劃那到時候如果說這個方因為最主要是為了鼓勵民眾平日來旅遊住宿然後尤其是在生日的時候也可以來住宿慶生不管是登記的人數或是金額"},{"start":3462.006,"end":3484.626,"text":"能夠增加因為才1440萬而已這個我們來努力看看可不可以再增加幫大家慶生是好事那我也要跟部長跟觀光署來提醒不只是中央來努力的加碼促進國旅而且要要求地方政府也要加碼而且也要要求業者也要加碼中央地方業者"},{"start":3485.106,"end":3507.443,"text":"一起加碼一起來推動國內的旅遊部長最後讓你說明一下只跟委員報告如果立法院支持我們的預算我們預算確定之後我們各個方案都會找地方政府跟我們一些旅行相關的業者大家一起來合作把加碼再做到更大中央政府出一部分的錢地方政府再加碼然後企業再加碼讓民眾可以享受到更好的優惠"},{"start":3508.543,"end":3529.497,"text":"部長最後一點時間我們來討論一下道路安全改善的進度它其實仍然是有待加強那今年的1至8月交通事故的死亡人數是1819人是對比去年同期減少了6.1但是我要提醒部長人數雖然略有這個下降但是"},{"start":3530.137,"end":3546.429,"text":"事故的件數是增加了增加了4994件然後受傷的人數也增加增加了5045人這相關的原因以及要怎麼去處理這個交通部必須要來做一個進一步的處理"},{"start":3547.37,"end":3573.736,"text":"那我們來看看義照市路段的計畫結束未來交通部要怎麼去落實相關的交通安全在過去義照市路段的計畫執行的方式他是由地方縣市政府來提報義照市的路段然後運營所來研議相關的地點跟方案由公路局來進行補助運營所再來追蹤改善的這樣的一個進度"},{"start":3574.216,"end":3601.759,"text":"那這是過去那現在我們要推動區域中心3.0的道安改善計畫各縣市政府各縣市的地方政府主導而且來申請中央的補助那提出改善的地點跟規劃的方案那應援所各區的區域中心來推動改善的這種方案的交流技術的支持還有分析及人員的培訓等等那我要提醒部長就是說"},{"start":3603.2,"end":3617.29,"text":"交通安全改善不只是說只需要經費的一個補助而且是更需要有效的這種改善的方案那過去的改善方案主要是依靠一兆式路段的這種改善的計畫那"},{"start":3618.571,"end":3645.72,"text":"現在區域3.0確實是能夠有效解決道路安全改善的財源跟權責劃分的一個基本的問題但是也面臨新的問題就是說各地縣市政府他們對於交通安全的技術或者是觀念的不同或是改善的意願那這個改善的成效變成是各地方人士人民大家所關切的一個議題那"},{"start":3648.53,"end":3664.082,"text":"為了要確保這些改善的績效通常是需要3到5年的一個追蹤那這個也需要中央來追蹤那區域3.0的道安改善計畫如何確保這些安全改善的目標跟措施能夠落實"},{"start":3665.003,"end":3692.713,"text":"而且維持改善的成效這是一個大家很關心的議題讓你簡單的說明一下是 報告委員考核跟查核的部分中央還是會持續來做雖然說道安3.0之後會有一個區域中心那另外技術面如果需要中央來協助中央也會來做協助那另外經費的補助當然未來地方財源會比較充裕那中央也會有一定的補助的能力那在考核跟查核之後我們會來做後面的這個補助的方案來檢討"},{"start":3695.19,"end":3714.675,"text":"最後一分鐘我有幾個基本建議交通部曾經宣示死亡的人數必須要每年降低5%這是過去我要求的區域中心3.0大安改善計畫在推動地方安全改善的時候也要將死傷人數減少納入具體的一個改善目標"},{"start":3715.635,"end":3734.956,"text":"第二 運營所應該協助各地的縣市政府提出年度道路交通安全執行計畫納入事故分析的結果還有改善需求以及相關的具體措施而且針對人員培訓歷年交通改善的這種情況及追蹤狀況要納入考量"},{"start":3735.536,"end":3760.383,"text":"還有另外針對交通改善資源比較少的區域要進行盤點來納入考量避免資源比較少的區域或縣市改善資源不足的這種情況這個請部長全力的一個督促好沒問題謝謝委員好謝謝接下來再請廖先祥委員質詢"},{"start":3772.358,"end":3773.986,"text":"要麻煩邀請我們交通部陳部長陳部長請"},{"start":3779.366,"end":3805.919,"text":"我們警政署我們交通組副組長陳副組長謝謝這部長這個是今天要跟您討論這個測速道廂的問題我想在上次院會的時候可能我講太多了沒有讓你有多說的一個機會我想的訴求很簡單我們交通部能不能訂定一個設置這個超速取締設備的一個設置原則那不曉得經過這幾天的一個沉澱之後您有沒有一些想法"},{"start":3806.659,"end":3832.559,"text":"跟委員報告這個設置執法面執法面其實是在內政部在警政署當然在警政署那實際上您也很理解就是說實際的設置大部分都是地方政府跟警政署一起在做跟警察單位在做那交通部在這個部分比較沒有做但您的提醒就是說針對它的設置的原則的這個部分我們可能要跟執法單位來討論因為過去交通部不負責執法"},{"start":3834.12,"end":3855.721,"text":"那执法面是内政部警政署我们也要看警政署他们的想法因为这样讲很简单执法是必然要做的我们希望大家都守规矩守规定那执法的层面有两个不是人力就是科技大概就是这两个层面那这个两个层面要怎么调配其实不是交通部能够决定的"},{"start":3856.876,"end":3871.232,"text":"那我先請我們警政署我剛剛有看一下我們的報告我們這邊警政署在你們報告中是不是有提到我們會針對測數的一個取締來去做一些規範性的原則的調整"},{"start":3873.935,"end":3890.595,"text":"各位 針對裡面的條文再說明一下報告委員 委員好目前我們的作為程序是取締一般那個交通違規的部分那裡面有包括到測試抓槍器整個一個設置它有幾個基本的原則大概有四個原則那未來我們會再"},{"start":3892.077,"end":3894.999,"text":"所以我們警政署原則上有要去做一些相關的一個調整好 那我再請部長一下部長"},{"start":3914.081,"end":3925.617,"text":"這個其實警政單位是執法單位規定其實都是我們交通部訂的其實對於道路的一個交通的安全我們交通部一定比警政署還來得了解跟專業這沒有錯吧"},{"start":3928.025,"end":3940.581,"text":"報告委員在執法的層面交通部沒有權利去要求警政單位我只是請教我們部長針對交通安全的專業我們交通部一定比警政署專業我們測速照相機設置的目的是為了什麼"},{"start":3944.105,"end":3959.902,"text":"是為了交通安全嘛 對不對是 我們希望可以更安全那既然是為了交通安全那在交通安全上面我們交通部又比警政署來專業那這件事情我先謝謝警政署願意去做一些調整但是這件事情我認為這應該是我們交通部的一個"},{"start":3961.461,"end":3986.703,"text":"應該更有能力來做這件事情因為包括從道路的一個速率的一個訂定從道路的設計然後到了這個速率的訂定其實都是我們交通部在訂警察機關他只是針對違規去錯取締而這個違規的取締的方式能不能對道路的交通安全有改善這是我們的目的有沒有改善其實我們交通部應該會更為專業這沒錯吧"},{"start":3988.921,"end":4013.162,"text":"報告委員您剛剛所說的這個速限的設置那個也不是全部都在交通部百分之九十幾以上的道路是地方政府去決定那個速率我們交通部也在這次的報告有提到說我們交通部有要研擬一個速率的設置原則所以說我們交通部這一點也在努力速率設置的原則在一百一十二年我們應該有委外的一個案子有做過一個是測速一個是一個是測速一個是限速兩個有點分開"},{"start":4014.903,"end":4029.855,"text":"我們這邊是決定速率的原則跟討論速率的原則實權還是在地方政府但是跟委員報告就如同我們的廁所照相一樣我一直希望你設置原則我知道廁所照相不是你設的但是"},{"start":4030.555,"end":4050.357,"text":"我們交通部是一個交通安全維持的最高的安全的指導機關可是執法層面全部都是在內政部的警政署我們交通部沒有負責執法對我們沒有權利因為我們沒有權利要求哪一個路段你可以執法哪一個路段你不能執法對交通部來講所有的路段大家都要照規則下去走"},{"start":4051.078,"end":4077.276,"text":"我不可以叫警政單位說你這一段不能執法所以就兩個問題一個速限嘛對不對那一個是一個是速限那另外一個是那個設置的部分嘛您說的那個是執法那執法的部分執法的部分警政署我先謝謝剛剛謝謝警政署了但是一樣強調我們的測速照相機是為了交通安全去設置的取締不是目的嘛對不對所有的執法都是為了交通安全維護安全維持那"},{"start":4077.876,"end":4097.964,"text":"我們交通部應該要更有能力知道我們測速照相機大概會在哪一種的類型情況下的設置對於我們的交通安全是有提升的一個實際的功能其實我在上一次的質詢您沒來上次我問這個同仁我們測速照相機是在道路在做規劃的時候"},{"start":4099.901,"end":4126.371,"text":"就決定要在哪邊設了嗎還是事後才去設大部分的情況都是事後才去設但是這個邏輯有點奇怪我們在做一條道路的時候我們應該就要知道說這條道路它在哪一個區段我們認為它是相對的危險的或者是未來事故率可能會比較高一點的那我們應該是做一個提前的預防但現在的現況是我們這邊發生事故我們就在這邊設置一個測速抓上機但是違規它是有隨機性的"},{"start":4127.421,"end":4150.418,"text":"對不對所有的道路每一個路段都要遵守規則下去走道路設計的時候不會去設計說在哪一個路段可以執法哪一個路段這個又牽扯到這個大區段疏離原則啦對不對越扯越多啦但是哪邊可以設測速上機對交通安全有提升我認為交通部是可以提供相關的一個指導"},{"start":4151.875,"end":4170.905,"text":"那個是執法層面委員所有的道路不管哪一段速限是50就是該走50沒有說哪裡可以設測速照相就要走50沒有設測速照相不用走50沒有這個道理的法規是這樣限定但是因為這是因為我們大區段的速率訂定原則好啦那我跟部長"},{"start":4171.545,"end":4193,"text":"提另外一件事交通部就只負責這一塊 執法面真的不是交通部啦我上次有跟那個同仁問過我們有沒有對這個自然流速去做一個統計大概在自然流速下面有多少的車輛是違規的部長我上次說啊如果說有50%的民眾超速的話那是我們的民眾愛超速還是道路設計的一個問題還是書憲的一個問題我發現我講的太保守了"},{"start":4196.94,"end":4210.553,"text":"公路局在兩三年前曾經做過一個報告部長你猜猜看在一個限速70的一個省道大概百分之多少的民眾他是符合速率的規定多少的民眾是超速的這個我不曉得你不曉得我說50 50太保守你猜一下"},{"start":4211.838,"end":4236.211,"text":"我不曉得 先委員指教我看那個圖表啦 大概是7% 8%啦一條道路只有7%到8%的民眾在正常的速率行駛下面是合法的然後你要在那邊設特殊照相機取締民眾違規這聽起來問題很大吧委員問題很大吧委員如果說你希望他們降速你應該用工程的手段"},{"start":4237.245,"end":4261.639,"text":"對不對 無論是標線或是實體的設施而不是訂另一個不合理的線數然後再來做取締這是民眾最為詬病的那我們為什麼線數會低是因為彎道嘛 是因為斜坡嘛不是因為某一個路段它真的開這麼快是危險是因為大區段的一個原因而導致部分路段它可能開得也很順 它會超速那你在這些路段去測速測速當機它就不是為了安全嘛你現在是要問我還是要問內政部問你啊問我我就跟你說過執法不在我這邊"},{"start":4268.229,"end":4285.905,"text":"執法是為了道路交通安全嘛是不是委員 我跟您溝通過很多次了執法是內政部在負責執法哪裡設測速照相是地方政府決定的所以它會一個更大的範圍包括速限的一個訂定是否合理那這個問題就太大了"},{"start":4287.632,"end":4301.07,"text":"這問題太大我們沒有辦法在這邊討論但是車速相機這個也是可以討論的啊但是要找地方政府一起來討論我跟您說過了大部分百分之九十幾以上的道路的速限是地方政府在決定不是我們交通部在決定啊我們今天在這邊是討論問題是今天"},{"start":4304.502,"end":4326.55,"text":"我們都知道車速交通機其實大概都是警政機關設置的那民眾對這東西有這麼多的討論我們是道路安全這個守護得最高的一個機關你今天可以選擇當英雄來解決這件事情你也可以繼續把這件事情推給別人以上 謝謝這個不是推是誰管就是誰管這不是推 委員好 謝謝"},{"start":4350.461,"end":4367.781,"text":"好 謝謝我們廖宣祥委員執行完畢現在請我們洪孟楷召委執行主席謝謝 我們麻煩請陳部長交通部陳部長"},{"start":4373.444,"end":4381.322,"text":"好 部長 部長早部長本席先給您看一下這個照片歷史照片回顧一下這是哪邊 看得出來嗎"},{"start":4382.725,"end":4405.777,"text":"看不出來比較遠抱歉沒有打在後面不好意思關渡大橋42年前1983年的10月關渡大橋正式通車的時候淡水那邊連接兩岸造成大家非常期待然後甚至橋上有很多的慶祝活動看到很多民俗活動表演"},{"start":4406.397,"end":4424.611,"text":"甚至爸爸帶小朋友一起上橋來拍照走在橋面上這是42年前的一個畫面一樣淡江大橋現在明年5月會正式通車也是大家期待已久了北台灣很重要的一個公共工程"},{"start":4425.43,"end":4453.567,"text":"交通部出資三分之一內政部出資三分之一新北市政府出資三分之一這其實是好事而且公路局的同仁不管是歷任局長陳文瑞局長現在高工局但以前他還是公路局局長現在林福山公路局局長還有已經退休的幾位局長其實大家都很用心那我們也希望是好事不要變成是壞事可是怎麼最近這一個禮拜看到好像部長跟侯市長有點隔空的在互相講"},{"start":4454.648,"end":4479.168,"text":"到底是溝通不順利還是怎麼樣不然為什麼我們在地方的鄉親會覺得是說我們沒有參與到來 部長簡單說明好不好好 跟委員報告其實這個應該都是誤解我覺得如果有想法大家可以來溝通那想法如果溝通不了才會有情緒但是目前為止新北市政府並沒有提出他們想要做哪些活動而公路局不接受的這個狀況所以這個應該沒有這個問題但委員剛剛所提到"},{"start":4481.75,"end":4501.409,"text":"這個是一個很重要的重點因為全國大家矚目所以活動之前的半年大家有想法這絕對是好事那我們也因為新北市政府開始提出想法我們也趕快想辦法把細節討論一下包括委員您是在地的委員我們也希望說委員可以提供一些意見讓在地的民眾可以來參與這樣更好"},{"start":4502.87,"end":4523.418,"text":"那也跟委員報告我們其實原本公路局自己所設定的這些活動裡面有相當多的地方的社團跟地方的民眾其實有參與包含我們有一個音樂會他那個淡水的國小也有來參加那個合唱團也會來參加那之前大家在討論的那個路跑的部分他的裁判的部分其實是由淡水的這個運動會體育會他們來推薦的"},{"start":4527.6,"end":4554.076,"text":"那另外我們其中有一天還有一個健行的活動也是有開幕大邀請地方的這些社團都有參加那另外還有一天的健行活動也是由地方的慢跑協會來舉辦好所以本席現在在講是說非常多的過程其實本席因為已經在這個選區五年多的時間所以你剛講每一件事情我也都有協助來參與不管是說要溝通要協調但是這一次的過程在什麼"},{"start":4554.736,"end":4571.591,"text":"在於是說當一出來的時候你們已經規劃好可是新北市政府會認為是說好像沒有再進一步的協調不過本席現在講還有半年時間如同剛剛部長講的本席也認同就是還有半年左右時間我們現在能夠更精細的規劃讓這件事情能夠更好"},{"start":4572.131,"end":4588.4,"text":"最多人參與讓地方有光榮感以及大家未來對於淡江大甲好了之後能夠解決地方的交通需求這才最重要是沒錯所以幾個部分我之前有提到是說路跑跟自行車因為有限定名額它其實是有報名費的但有限定名額可是現在"},{"start":4589.02,"end":4602.853,"text":"考量安全以及整體的容量的情況有沒有可能再加開名額再給民眾來報應跟委員報告我們其實總共會有三個禮拜可以辦活動基本上可以滿足所有民眾想要上橋"},{"start":4603.914,"end":4629.867,"text":"去參與這次的慶典的這個需求但是它的這個容納的這個限量大概是7000人是安全是一個安全的數字那再上去其實我們就擔心有一些危險不是承載的問題而已還有管理的問題還有就是說如果發生了意外的時候我們的救援的車輛要怎麼上去的問題所以我們目前設定是7000人對都有評估過但是現在是沒有辦法你是因為安全的問題沒有辦法"},{"start":4630.507,"end":4658.995,"text":"是 因為安全的問題那另外就是說地方上的需求也好或者其實坦白講全國民眾都想去當然那我們用兩個禮拜的時間把活動分散開來那大家都有機會來參與大家都有機會來參加這個是最好的好 那本席之前提過說那這樣的話在路跑之前其實地方的民眾也很期待因為施工在地方大車進出都在地方所以巴黎地區淡水地區的鄉親大家很期待因為看了十幾年了"},{"start":4659.615,"end":4682.139,"text":"終於看到它完成了那現在我們希望是說規劃地方鄉親能夠先有上橋體驗的部分這能夠一起納入做討論嗎跟委員報告這個部分我們會來研究跟討論好那不過因為我們原本的活動也就是委員在建議的部分讓地方的民眾有一天或者是一段時間讓他們可以上橋去體驗一下甚至拍照一下這個本來就在我們的規劃裡面"},{"start":4683.44,"end":4699.92,"text":"所以我們就來爭取這個部分至少讓地方民眾因為地方這一次特別講到是說路跑也沒有預留地方名額自行車也沒有預留地方名額但當然也有網路上我們也看到消息講是說台北馬拉松他可能也沒有限制說只能台北報名"},{"start":4700.781,"end":4720.921,"text":"萬金石馬拉松可能也沒有限制說只有萬金石的相信報名所以說這一些部分那本席也了解未來譬如說淡江大小完工之後相信這可能也會變成是各大賽事或者是說各大社團活動申請的部分所以說未來也很多活動只是當然大家也都有一個打卡"},{"start":4721.942,"end":4743.096,"text":"搶先的一個心態那最重要的就如同本席剛剛給您秀出來的照片42年前就是所有淡水人跟巴黎人的回憶記憶就是關渡大橋的通車大家能夠互相走這個是鄉親的期待所以請盡力促成可以嗎一定會來滿足地方的需求好一定滿足地方需求謝謝部長部長我再利用兩分鐘的時間跟您討論一下剛剛其實"},{"start":4746.098,"end":4769.091,"text":"本席坐在這邊聽你跟廖先祥委員我覺得有點沒有對焦其實廖委員他非常清楚知道說裁罰是警政單位道路設計是交通單位他也清楚可是我覺得他提出的問題以及最近有藝人在講是說全台灣的測速照相設置太多多到比國防設施"},{"start":4770.111,"end":4799.153,"text":"多的比監獄設施都還要多這引以為國恥你也有看到這個評論可是每一個國家的監獄都不會比這個數字好像多部長這個是藝人的評論但現在本席想要強調一個部分在於是一個道路到底它設數限多少這個定是由交通部門定不管是交通部不管是地方的交通單位都是由交通部門那你為什麼會在這個地方定60定80你要有理由"},{"start":4800.549,"end":4827.319,"text":"因為你訂出來的60 80的一個速限之後如果說超過了才會有警政單位去做裁罰對不對但是你事前的定位有沒有符合實際的需求所以剛剛廖委員也提出一個數據以及我們大家常常在講很多人常常在罵一個什麼就是說這個地方就是筆直的路可是到最後它的速限相對不符合大多數人的駕駛習慣的時候"},{"start":4828.76,"end":4857.746,"text":"你就會變成在那裡有測速照相就變政府搶錢所以回歸最原始的根本就是如果說那個道路它的是樹線在那個數值上面是安全的那我們想要問的是政府部門為什麼會定的樹線往往都比一般的駕駛人的感受來的低這個是一個重點那能不能有所調整跟實際去看那個道路的狀況來符合最安全因為它是一個Match點嘛"},{"start":4859.209,"end":4888.188,"text":"安全跟速度會有一個match點它應該是一個實際的作為所以說國外才會有所謂的85分法就是85%的駕駛者認為說在這個道路上如果開多少的速限是安全的那應該就以這一個為基準當標準這是國外現在已經看到我相信你們應該要比我更了解跟專業才對那但是國內往往不是這樣台灣過去有很多的道路往往就是我這條路出來之後我就定一個60"},{"start":4890.229,"end":4918.14,"text":"60差不多啦然後就定60那如果說有地方因為發生了車禍因為發生了什麼情況就來會刊檢討那不然降為50好了不然降為40好了那就沒有一個科學的標準跟數據去支撐說為什麼要降為50降為40以至於降為50 40之後如果再有測速照相那那個地方平常的開車會相對比較快而造成大家就認為說政府搶錢"},{"start":4919.588,"end":4949.348,"text":"部長您可以理解本席剛剛講這一段話我相當理解也跟委員報告數十年來台灣的道路的設計跟速限的規範當然有一套標準不可能是憑感覺如果是憑感覺這個國家大概已經亂掉了所以他們其實都有一定的速率在規定例如說非都市地區可能是由交通部這邊有一個設定那另外都市的部分是由國土署那邊有一套的設定規則那每一段道路路會越蓋越好"},{"start":4949.948,"end":4966.857,"text":"這個沒有問題會越來越質你講的本質都理解其實我覺得現在重點在於是因為您剛也講過去幾十年而且有兩三個單位有交通部門有內政部門等去設計道路但原則都差不多對 道路的越來越多"},{"start":4967.957,"end":4991.35,"text":"樣態越來越不同其實現在大家回歸的點就是說當已經測速照向全台灣有三萬多隻然後還有就說道路的設計的時候是不是能夠啟動做一個通盤檢討以一樣的標準再去檢視一下說現在到底有沒有不符合時宜或者是部長您聽一下或者是我就列出譬如說各縣市"},{"start":4992.583,"end":5016.588,"text":"全各縣市測速照相違規的前10名或前20名那針對前10名前20名來去檢視看看說那一些測速照相合不合理因為他會在那個地方有很多的測速那就當然要去看測速照相合不合理不是由交通部來決定所以有可能是安全性如果說是安全性的話我沒有意見因為本來就要保證國人的安全"},{"start":5017.008,"end":5036.638,"text":"但如果說它不是安全性而是那個地方本身就有瑕疵或是本身就會有一些不同的狀況而導致於說在那邊特別容易被拍到那我們要的不是只是罰納稅人的錢我們要的應該是保障大家的行車安全就不要讓大家到最後到那個地方之後就擊殺因為罰怕了"},{"start":5039.479,"end":5057.086,"text":"而過了之後又加速而是應該是檢討那個地區有沒有什麼狀況部長能不能針對這個部分您剛也講就說廖委員這邊也講到是說其實各縣市設置那能不能交通部以一個主管機關中央主管機關來找各縣市交通"},{"start":5058.127,"end":5073.108,"text":"交通單位來開會針對這個議題我想這也不是一天兩天但是針對這個議題來做一個討論能夠怎麼樣有效的去檢討抓出現在可能藏有的漏洞好 各位委員報告"},{"start":5073.988,"end":5089.677,"text":"公路體系我們自己管的公路體系已經通盤檢討了幾次那這個部分我們盡量朝合理化那另外如果地方上有不合理的部分其實民眾也可以提出來或民意代表也可以提出來因為大部分我剛剛有講過百分之九十幾的道路是地方政府所管的"},{"start":5090.197,"end":5116.514,"text":"那委員剛剛的提醒希望我們能夠通知地方政府叫他們做一個通盤的檢討這個沒有問題我們來通知他們請他們跟這個包含內政部警政署的設置的這個方式來做一個通盤檢討我們來跟他們溝通看他們願不願意做一樣的原則啦部長願意要做交通部門你是中央主管機關要做大家絕對不會不願意做其實你有一個通則或說你有一個"},{"start":5117.656,"end":5125.889,"text":"辦法出來之後讓大家去做要求甚至本席剛剛講嘛這是一個粗淺的概念但我相信民眾是有感的"},{"start":5127.318,"end":5154.686,"text":"你當一個地方如果一天它發生車禍的比例跟它被罰測速照相的比例不符合正比的時候可能有個地方到最後現在都不會發生車禍了可是每天都有上千張上萬張的測速照相在那邊被拍的時候那就代表說那個地方可能樹線調製的不合理或者是說那邊的道路設計不合理而不是說每個人經過都要超速我們應該是要這樣思考吧"},{"start":5156.516,"end":5179.71,"text":"部長是本席最後echo一下剛剛廖委員的話是要再更積極一點中央管原則方向地方管執行這個是大家理解的狀況但是不是說這樣子所以說中央就原則方向反正我訂出來在那邊你們自己看那去看沒關係政府是一體的大家常講"},{"start":5180.911,"end":5207.093,"text":"那地方也有執政黨也有在野黨但我們現在不分黨派因為我覺得交通委員會通常都不分黨派來討論我們要討論是民眾的疑慮跟民眾的問題以及我們怎麼解決以及看到國外怎麼設計那我們來思考好的我們把它留下來壞的我們不要您說到國外怎麼設計您剛剛講V85的這個設置在世界衛生組織有一個報告他直接就寫明他直接建議V85不應該作為設定安全速限的主要工具"},{"start":5208.374,"end":5233.277,"text":"那另外針對速度管理的部分我也跟您但是也有國外做參考嘛不長沒有問題地廣人稀的國家可以我們周邊的國家新加坡日本跟南韓都不是這樣我們是地狹人稠的國家是不一樣的原則我也希望交通部門交通部門要去理解跟交通部門要拿專業來說服全國民眾我常在講如果說一個地方你的專業是可以說服民眾的話任何"},{"start":5235.802,"end":5246.205,"text":"有任何狀況你們可以有堅持你的立場為什麼很多的道路是設計50跟60的時數或70來70%的時數如果撞到人死亡率是99%本席現在要的是你跟全國國人來交代跟說明"},{"start":5253.887,"end":5268.899,"text":"部長我們進一步因為這個議題這個議題也不是一兩天的時間但是本席願意很開放的態度來跟您做討論本席也反映很多的民意因為今天不是只是單親北市的問題我相信中南部可能會有更多這樣子的狀況"},{"start":5269.96,"end":5282.055,"text":"那這些都是你應該要去掌握也因此本期剛才會建議的方式找縣市政府交通單位共同來討論針對這個部分能夠來做改善或者能夠來個檢討的部分應該要來進行我們來做檢討好 謝謝部長 謝謝"},{"start":5303.496,"end":5328.825,"text":"好 謝謝那接下來再請林國成委員繼續好 謝謝主席請交通部陳部長來 陳部長請好 部長早 委員好"},{"start":5330.069,"end":5338.917,"text":"我想因為交通的問題啊當然千頭萬系啦說實在的也不是一朝一日但是問題的製造是非常環雜的"},{"start":5340.84,"end":5363.112,"text":"我有看到你們的報告跟有關單位的報告也是這兩年來行人地域的改善當然行政院也充分的給三個單位一個內政部 一個交通部一個是教育部其實教育部他要負責的就是往下雜耕的教育那是非常重要"},{"start":5363.852,"end":5382.693,"text":"所以我們要學習日本他從小就教導小孩子要如何過馬路如何分辨交通的對跟錯可不可以這個我們要多多學習人家可是我看到這個報告交通部這裡是有做"},{"start":5386.096,"end":5404.803,"text":"那內政部這裡也有做但是我還是建議要協調教育部的部分往下雜跟的教育部分要更落實一點這個才有辦法去達到交通改變觀念改變 交通就會改變"},{"start":5405.743,"end":5434.76,"text":"那交通改變當然交通就沒有生命之危險所以我想部長你同意本席對於這個看法吧報告委員相當同意啦這個部分我們在道安的這個委員會的過程當中教育部長其實也有列席那我們也一直在拜託教育單位可以來協助那當然交通部也是責無旁貸我們會提供一些教材的資源跟一些教育的這個專業的知識給教育部那我們希望能夠更落實到兒童的教育"},{"start":5435.18,"end":5463.252,"text":"跟學員的教育這個部分本席還是拜託部長你們提供給教育部的時候那個資料提供一下你不要只有一位委託的我們的路老師就可以解決啦不是這樣啦有時候我們下情上達然後名義代表老百姓給我們的意見才是意見才是意見所以我是覺得用路人的心聲駕駛人的需求"},{"start":5463.972,"end":5482.973,"text":"這才是這個交通要制定法令的一個基本的概念所以部長我還是希望這個提供給我們本委員所有的委員來做參考 好不好那另外一個我還是要建議剛剛我們幾位委員同仁我是接著他們討論的其實"},{"start":5487.196,"end":5512.142,"text":"這個科技執法沒有人會反對但是要注意準確度的問題這個內政部在執法的當中當然這個是牽涉到地方政府啦要經過你們設定標準然後地方政府他們去規劃他們去執行但是不要忘了你還是要督促他的準確度的問題"},{"start":5514.287,"end":5529.135,"text":"幾例 現在有兩部車聘請然後它科系指法是固定的鏡頭結果兩部 兩部都開到底哪一部超速 不曉得所以準確度確實是有問題"},{"start":5531.393,"end":5547.685,"text":"這個部長我要拜託你要監督地方政府跟那個這個準確度一定要去執行不要兩部車並行然後兩部都開到底我沒有超速啊是那一部超速甲車超速或乙車超速"},{"start":5548.385,"end":5572.217,"text":"不知但是兩個都開這個是不公平的所以我為什麼要要求準確度的問題這個部長提供給你做一個政策性改進的一個參考另外一個就是必要性必要性當然你明明知道它是下滑的波段結果你去設一個快速"},{"start":5572.597,"end":5600.662,"text":"所以這個就是必要性不足的地方應該也要檢討所以我是給你建議建議這兩點特別要去注意這些我想市長的部分這裡可能我們制定法令的時候當然會牽涉地方政府跟執行單位他們去設計的一個準則所以只要發現這個問題我們要稍微去人性化的調整這是有必要的"},{"start":5601.462,"end":5620.172,"text":"那最後一個我還是以重心長建議部長淡江大橋確確實實大家都知道中央非常困難的情況之下他才去落成所以你難怪我們洪昭維他一直在關心我們每一次看到報章雜誌"},{"start":5621.733,"end":5646.506,"text":"在那邊爭功毀業我們這看得很難過其實我們是肯定地方政府的我們肯定中央政府的這是共同努力的結果所以我要拜託我要拜託部長在這個部分你特別要留意一下尊重地方的權利跟尊重地方政府的意見這是非常重要的沒有指責誰對誰錯"},{"start":5648.527,"end":5666.47,"text":"一個政府就是政府中央政府也是政府地方政府也是政府所以我要拜託這件事不要讓我們看到報紙就是在那邊爭功毀業這個沒有意思大家都知道是中央政府做的地方政府沒有能力做這些報告委員 交通部沒有爭過"},{"start":5668.031,"end":5692.623,"text":"從來沒有在爭好啦我是很善意的提醒部長啦不要一個很好的事情變成我也認為這個是國家的大喜事啦大家就要有辦喜事的心態部長因為我時間良心的建議都把我時間用掉了那我要回歸正題來這個國光啊國光交通啊"},{"start":5694.231,"end":5721.136,"text":"這個污染基隆第七跟汐止第七這個問題部長雖然國光公司是我們交通事業但是這個部分當然是環保署他要管可是不要忘了這裡面有一個重點如果假設國光保養廠是偷盜這個油你們現在有什麼監督機制現在保養廠的監督機制我請局長"},{"start":5722.578,"end":5747.967,"text":"跟委員報告一下因為確實陳如剛剛委員所提到的部分就是說國光整個公司裡面需要交通部特許的事有關於公共運輸的部分那當然後面這些保養廠的那種部分的話它的這個就是許可還有監督管理的部分這個是屬於那是經濟部啦你不要跟我講這些啦我說現在當然這個部分啦我接下來還要談就是這個部分你們現在怎麼處理啦"},{"start":5749.257,"end":5774.243,"text":"這個部分我們關切我們比較關切的一個部分當然就是說保養廠沒有相關這些污水處理的那個我告訴你你不要因為我不會指責你們就事論事本來環保偷渡的問題本來環保署就要去處理但是你們是交通目的事業主管機關所以我要你們的就是不要放著不管這個本位主義不關我的事"},{"start":5775.023,"end":5800.818,"text":"我就不管 所以我還是希望要監督因為所有的路權是掌握在我們手上配合度不高 或者它是違規違法那你的路線我就給你 該取消就取消本來你們掌握這些行政決定權啊所以確定我不是在跟你拒絕但是這個事情還是要監督還是要繼續努力好 接下來"},{"start":5803.417,"end":5830.608,"text":"國光公司已經三度欠薪了我一向不管在任何單位我非常重視的是勞工的權利領不到薪資 欸 三度欠薪欸 局長我知道你們都要接不下去啦國光的問題當然事情也很多第一個 勞保會他們都不繳欸你們有沒有去查第二個 你們補助八千塊他也是失吞欸"},{"start":5832.837,"end":5848.691,"text":"現在比較嚴重的現在他們最嚴重的是工會裡面這些駕駛員準備要罷工那罷工以後當然就是我們交通主管機關"},{"start":5851.164,"end":5878.055,"text":"是有關啊 可是罷工的問題當然是勞動部的事可是你不能說勞動部的事影響我交通事業的正常行駛啊所以 柏中這我這樣跟你檢記啦把實情告訴你們為什麼會欠工資啊為什麼勞保不繳啊為什麼說實在的會侵占人家的補助費 為什麼"},{"start":5879.435,"end":5896.602,"text":"來 柏中 你有沒有掌握跟委員報告我們大概在擔心跟理解國光的財務狀況的時間差不多已經接近一年了差不多一年前我們就已經有差不多關注到他的財務的問題那我們也有拜託公路局要緊盯著他的財務的狀況"},{"start":5897.982,"end":5924.022,"text":"甚至是我們已經開始做到了一些路線的調整因為我們也擔心說如果國光有哪一天突然沒有辦法繼續運行的話有沒有其他人能夠接手所以路線的部分我們也在協助他做調整有些路權我們該不給就不給了由其他的客運公司來接手那我們目前也是緊盯著他的薪資的狀況還有他的財務的狀況那我們能夠提供協助的當然會提供協助不過對交通部來講更大的責任是什麼"},{"start":5924.502,"end":5949.747,"text":"就是所有的這些路權他在開的那個路線我們要保障民眾的權益那也就是說他不能開的時候我們要馬上有人可以接手這對我們來講是更關鍵的所以交通部在一年以前我們就開始在做這方面的規劃繼續監督啦好不好最後一點我要提醒一下我們車禍裡面我也要拜託你們在做分析研究的時候"},{"start":5950.527,"end":5973.706,"text":"老人發生死亡率特別高這個問題不要又靠陸老師了我們要做一個研究所以我們交通研究所這個要多研究所以上次我也跟他講研究出來要給傑策做一個有效的改善所以我們的老人家發生車禍"},{"start":5974.867,"end":5997.334,"text":"的這種比例非常之高所以要拜託部長拜託我們局長等等這個師長你們在研究這個的時候要特別把這個納入這個老人家為什麼會死亡率會這麼高到底他是不懂交通或者他是什麼原因要把它研究出來這樣未以籌謀才有辦法做改進好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝"},{"start":6002.605,"end":6021.453,"text":"好 接下來再請黃建豪委員質詢那我們先宣告一下等一下林俊憲委員質詢完畢之後我們休息十分鐘來好 謝謝主席主席 我們一樣請陳士凱陳部長好 部長請"},{"start":6029.198,"end":6046.472,"text":"委員好部長早部長今天要討論這個所謂的測速照相的問題我想先一開始請教一下部長您這一生有沒有收過超速罰單當然有收過有在開車的人都會收到比較多那你超速當下收到的時候你有認得到你超速嗎"},{"start":6048.08,"end":6065.566,"text":"認知到超速對 就是你被你當時收到法案找你超速我說你在開車當下的時候你應該也不是故意超速的應該不會認知到自己超速好 部長 謝謝這樣就能夠苦民說苦你就能夠體會我們為什麼今天要討論這議題我們先看一下這交通部的過去的統計"},{"start":6067.973,"end":6086.098,"text":"114年1月到8月全國的這個造勢事故噪音統計裡面1到9名跟超速都沒有什麼直接相關報案說浩子路口轉彎車未讓直行車是最高導致小停車事故的原因右轉彎未依規定是第二名未保持行車距離是第三名等等等等"},{"start":6086.718,"end":6112.633,"text":"那根據交通部2020年的統計超速大概佔全部交通事故主因的大概2.13%那當然後續沒有找到相關的統計資料所以沒辦法提出來討論所以今天本席為什麼今天在這邊提出來就是因為我相信包含部長在內包含本席在內我們當初不小心超速所以收到罰單的時候我也不是故意的我也不是一定要我也不是在競訴那也沒有真的造成用路人的這個安全的損傷所以說為什麼今天要討論這問題"},{"start":6115.554,"end":6124.24,"text":"這個部長你知道全台灣這個數字比較痛比較麻煩比較難整理那你知道全台灣到底有多少這個測速照相機嗎固定式測速照相機這個我不曉得"},{"start":6125.12,"end":6151.019,"text":"本席在這個政府資訊公開網一個一個縣市一個縣市去找然後包含說這個公路還有這個省道國道然後跟地方政府合計起來如果統計沒錯的話2025年台灣總共大概有2500個固定式測速照相機全台灣各地方政府加中央等等的大概2500個測速照相機那所以按照這個比例我想這個密度來講其實算以全球來講也算是相對比較高"},{"start":6151.96,"end":6177.738,"text":"那為什麼今天所以為什麼會講這個問題就是說今天包含說我們看到的這個改善交通事故的原因跟測速照相跟超速它沒有因為你們在一開始報告覺得說這個超速等等的原因是不是可能會造成事故會跟事故造成交通事故的主因之一可是就數據統計上跟你們各家的這個統計看起來兩者之間並沒有所謂的因果關係"},{"start":6179.039,"end":6205.797,"text":"所以到底這個政策有沒有要調整的空間報告委員您所提出來的這個數據是在車禍當下的統計數據車禍當下那在車禍當下為了要趕快快速排除有時候我們在登記的那個過程當中不會問得那麼細但我另外一個數據也提供給委員就是交通事故之後有回來復印回來復印就是說對於那個測量或什麼有意見的回來復印之後就會比較詳細去調查整個車禍的這個噪音"},{"start":6209.099,"end":6232.091,"text":"那這個比例看起來的話是百分之二十是因為超速如果有回來複製的話真正認真去研析之後發現是百分之二十並不是這個百分之二所以百分之二十才是比較精準的數字那另外針對這個超速與否的這個速度的限制我跟委員報告我剛剛也跟召委報告過我再講完整一點"},{"start":6233.752,"end":6256.632,"text":"台灣我當然不一定是交通很專業的人我們交通部裡面有非常多專業的人過去長時間這樣子的設置這樣的規則跟規定有它的一定的邏輯跟道理包含工程上面的邏輯包含這個幾何路型的邏輯等等我一個很簡單的數字跟委員報告我自己開車有時候也會覺得這道路很寬闊怎麼會限制50怎麼會限制60"},{"start":6258.914,"end":6277.711,"text":"那現場委員在這我講就大家一起聽因為其實道路的這個管理有時候是要防範失誤的時候的那個危險我們要先設定說人都會失誤所有人都會失誤當失誤發生的時候我們希望他的死亡率可以降低"},{"start":6278.331,"end":6299.509,"text":"那跟委員們報告目前看起來WTO給的數據時數70的時候撞到人死亡率是99%時數60的時候撞到人死亡率是90%那為什麼很多都限定5050我們希望他有一定的效率那另外一方面他的死亡率降到50%到60%"},{"start":6302.611,"end":6324.727,"text":"那為什麼學校會用30因為學校用30它的死亡率更低這個沒問題就是說確實這是物理問題嘛你時速越快當然撞到的死亡率越高所以它的速度管理有它一定的道理我們今天討論說希望能夠更有效率的處理我們交通的這個效率的問題那當然如果報告委員效率跟安全我們要抓一個平衡點對啊"},{"start":6326.168,"end":6347.142,"text":"那個平衡點是什麼大家要有共識譬如說這幾年我們現在就是討論共識這幾年像我剛剛在報告的大家今天也關心的就是行人地獄的議題或者是交通死亡的議題我們希望在2013年之前我們要降低50%的死亡的人數在我們希望要安全的同時我們又希望效率提到很高"},{"start":6347.762,"end":6375.934,"text":"我覺得這一點對我們來講不是很容易的事來 部長我們就個案來我們就幾個狀態來討論包含提到說你剛才提到就是我要講的就很多道路它很寬闊但是你說定在速限50的原因可能就是因為避免萬一失誤的時候它可能造成比較高比較大的死傷率但是以台灣現在這種測速照相你們在設置相關的規範裡面是因為我們所謂包含今天的報告裡面有提到我們是大區段速限一致的原則"},{"start":6377.114,"end":6401.4,"text":"所以在彼此的時候是50可能原因是因為後面有一個轉彎或是後面有一個路幅的改變所以我整個大區段的道路樹線會把它定成這樣的標準但是其實對用路人來講以這個案例為例像這個新聞事件它是因為躲側樹所以它擊殺它造成很多的香港事故委員您在講的這些都是特例"},{"start":6402.443,"end":6425.155,"text":"然後你也看到照片 您所提供的照片上面是警方在這個地方那測速也真的不是 好啦怎麼樣 你要說什麼沒關係包含啦 包含說我們在高速公路上開車的時候經過測速照相的時候 這一段區間講白了就比如新竹那一段 就特別容易塞車因為大家為了那邊測速車 差比較多隻啦"},{"start":6425.695,"end":6453.576,"text":"所以有時候新竹那邊特別塞有時候原因就是因為大家希望這段速限就降下來但是一過了新竹我們如果做一個實驗把那邊的測速照相測掉塞車也不一定能解決我們可以試試看 沒關係好 那再來因為時間到了後續再討論一下因為今天還有一個第二問題就是我們行人交通的部分這件事情跟測速照相我要並且來討論是因為我們推出了很多的這個相關的交通安全的改善措施但是行人事故的死亡的減速"},{"start":6454.276,"end":6470.559,"text":"基本上從11301到8月跟11401至8月基本上行人事故的死亡事件它是持平的所以不能否認交通部有奴隸所以數據是持平但是我們希望更精進在做什麼進分在做什麼地方為什麼大家對撤出照相這件事情相關的罰還你看一下預算"},{"start":6471.553,"end":6499.253,"text":"在這個預算裡面我們光是這個去年的收入今年的預算裡面去年收入有38億左右更不用講各地方政府的收入大家想要講的是說今天我做測速照相你是為了降低可能交通事故希望交通能夠更安全所以我們去裝所謂測速照相那我們因為測速照相收來的錢要做什麼事情我覺得這是交通部要去思考的就是我今天收錢收來不是只是增加那個是交通部代收的"},{"start":6499.853,"end":6515.53,"text":"對啊我說可以看到這麼多金額進來嘛那個也不是也不是撤出照樣子 沒關係 部長我的意思是說今天交通罰還這些錢收進來之後我要做什麼我今天收起來我要做什麼因為你收進來之後我不是純粹為了增加政府的收入而已嘛我是希望說能夠改善一些事情嘛"},{"start":6515.99,"end":6539.161,"text":"那包含說日本他是很明定的在發展道路交通安全設施那今天最後一點時間我要跟部長為誠心的希望建議說這個收入我們是不是能夠專款專用所謂的測速照相的收入或是相關這個道路的這個罰款我們能夠專款專用用在所謂的行人的交通設施的改善或者交通加強交通安全宣導等等的把項目明定下來"},{"start":6539.921,"end":6562.601,"text":"那我覺得這樣子對於不小心違法的違規的像本席跟你在內我們這個不小心超出的時候我的罰款我花的有價值我交給國家之後我至少下一次可能在陸服的改善或在行人這個交通設施的改善上面能夠在工程上面讓我會降低我的疏線那也保障行人安全或保障其他用戶的安全"},{"start":6563.001,"end":6586.921,"text":"報告委員您這麼說我相當相當的同意也跟縣長委員跟召委報告剛剛你們所提到的就是說我們執法的目的是為了安全是為了更加安全所以我們執法之後所收的這些政府收的收入不應該移到其他地方應該要大比例的來做交通安全的改善才是正圖那我們目前看到現有的規定是12%"},{"start":6588.702,"end":6612.66,"text":"有些縣市我們其實有調查過不一定有做到12%但那12%大部分的比例是拿來做坦白說測速照相的維修或維護或者是執法的層面的維護但是真正放到交通安全的工程面的改善或教育宣導面的改善其實比例相當相當的低那這個部分我們也希望能夠做改進好 部長 自然你也知道這個狀況這個現實狀況我們希望說未來"},{"start":6615.382,"end":6631.01,"text":"今天既然討論車座照相的議題那既然罰都罰了錢都繳了那我們希望錢要去到真的有幫助的地方所以說再強調一點就是說包含你在內包含我在內我們那時候在開車所謂超速的時候我是因為那個情境所謂85%的問題"},{"start":6632.691,"end":6651.197,"text":"我不小心就超速了但是我們希望交通部相關專業部門在做道路工程設計的時候你透過工程道路的設計讓我不得不減速嘛我如果在一個3米寬或4米寬的巷道我不可能開到時速50 時速60我可能40就會自己"},{"start":6652.017,"end":6672.889,"text":"看一下會看一下狀況會把速度減下來所以道路工程設計應該也是往這個方向你既然道路工程設計如果這邊路幅寬達6公尺7公尺然後你差一個速限50那很多人就不小心他就會超速了但如果今天道路設計他就是4公尺3公尺他不可能開到60 70以上我想這個是物理問題我覺得大家一起來努力好不好好沒問題謝謝謝謝"},{"start":6675.868,"end":6697.013,"text":"好 這次感謝黃建豪委員感謝部長其實不管部長不管建豪委員大多數的民眾有收過超速罰單但絕對不會是一個惡意的駕駛不會是一個超速的駕駛今天有那麼多的委員來做一個質詢其實在於是看到民怨的一個部分我們希望是交通部門用更"},{"start":6698.154,"end":6712.134,"text":"開放謹慎的態度來去檢討一下到底我們的樹線設置標準有沒有符合實際的需求而不是訂了一個樹線在那邊之後就持續讓國人在那邊超速"},{"start":6712.975,"end":6737.51,"text":"我想這一個部分是還是要釐清交通委員會不分黨派朝野大家共同要為的是台灣2350萬人的交通安全來把關能夠更精進交通安全的方向我們絕對全力支持但我們也希望交通部門真的是要以一個更開放的態度那尤其是如果說真的有不合時宜的速限或者是不符合實際狀況的速限的話該檢討應該要檢討"},{"start":6742.328,"end":6760.889,"text":"謝謝 我們接下來再請徐副委員繼續謝謝主席 有請我們陳部長 警政署陳副組長還有公路局我們林局長來 部長 局長跟副組長請"},{"start":6768.462,"end":6786.659,"text":"非常好 部長早部長我想進入今天主題之前我想還是一個比較現實的問題要請教部長 是 那目前我們這個一百一十五年度的中央政府總預算還躺在立法院還沒有通過那這個是從二零零八年我們這個國會改革之後"},{"start":6787.679,"end":6810.904,"text":"17年來最晚復為審查的一次那我想這個狀況我們也非常憂心各縣市重要的交通建設會不會因為這樣的狀況受到影響我想部長自己有沒有什麼心理準備跟委員報告我們目前部內也在做這方面的盤整因為尤其道路改善的計畫尤其是一些安全的計畫這個刻不容緩也不希望能夠不希望被拖到"},{"start":6811.684,"end":6825.813,"text":"所以針對我們原本延續性的計畫我們會持續來做但是對於一些新興的計畫可能我們就要等整個預算過了之後才有辦法做所以我們也有做好有一些建設上面可能要緩一緩的心理準備"},{"start":6826.963,"end":6844.866,"text":"副部長 我想我本身是在屏東 是 因為我特別擔心這個狀況那尤其因為目前碰到立法院現在的審查預算的狀況我想陷入一個政治惡鬥的一個狀況那有可能我們的總預算一直沒辦法審查完畢的時候 是 我也很高興我們的重大交通建設會沒問題"},{"start":6846.107,"end":6860.395,"text":"是 部長這部分你們怎麼因應 報告委員 交通部所承諾地方要做的大型的交通建設我們都會全力來做那不過也要看我們的裁員的狀況我們希望我們的裁員的狀況是好的 裁划法現在也被擋住了 院版也被擋住了"},{"start":6861.175,"end":6878.551,"text":"今年的這個公建的預算其實以比例來講的話我們的需求其實是高於實際我們分配到的金額超過蠻多的啦那所以有可能會造成我們一些公共建設的這個時間的延宕有可能會發生這個必須要很誠實的跟委員報告"},{"start":6879.372,"end":6906.423,"text":"部長 我想我們都跟時間在賽跑了我們期待這個當然剛剛我們趙薇講的這個不分藍綠但是我們都期待我們的交通建設應該是要我們捍衛我們行人的一個權益那也保障我們行人的一個我們生命的一個安全那剛剛我想我想我們現在每個縣市看到很多的這個行人環境的改善那包含我們交通部也好還有我們內政部也好做了很多硬體的一些規劃"},{"start":6907.463,"end":6928.57,"text":"那但是除了硬體之外那剛剛我們也特別提到說這個我們執法的部分的一些的引起國人很多的一些質疑的部分我想這不管是軟體硬體也好都必須真的要深刻來檢討那尤其這個我們屏東我們也發生過從70速限有可能下一個路口變50"},{"start":6930.424,"end":6949.475,"text":"那過去變成又變成60同一條路可以有好幾個不同的一個速限對用路人來講當然在地也沒問題但對外縣市來到這個地方的人來講三不正啦會搞不清楚狀況那面對這個狀況警政署這邊還有交通部這邊有沒有什麼樣的看法怎麼做一個調整"},{"start":6952.345,"end":6972.756,"text":"包委員這個書憲這個部分是那個交通部他們在主導的主管的檢測室這個部分只有做這個資料測試這個部分那個部分我們會跟縣市他們在設置測試照相的時候不要避免在這種那個位置來設置不然的話就會比較容易"},{"start":6973.456,"end":6990.575,"text":"因為我知道現在只要發生A1事故我們就開始會去檢討這個路口的速限還有一些交通耗資的問題但是到底真的能不能因為這樣的我們一個嚴謹的一個措施就減少所謂一個行人死亡的一個數據我想部長這部分你們有掌握這樣的一個狀況嗎各位委員報告"},{"start":6991.776,"end":7012.109,"text":"速限大部分的道路就是由道路主管機關來設定那道路主管機關大部分百分之九十幾以上的道路是地方政府來決定那當然中央決定的部分我們盡量朝合理化像委員剛剛所說的要合理化不要那個速度變來變去讓大家不便利但是臺灣有一個比較特殊的狀況是我們的很多的地方都是市區"},{"start":7013.13,"end":7029.546,"text":"都在市區裡面例如說我省道當他經過學校的時候即便是省道經過學校速度也是30那就必然要改變因為那裡有很多的學童那進入了人口密集的地方他的速限也必然要降低"},{"start":7030.026,"end":7051.768,"text":"那出了人口密集的地方它的速限就會開始提高大概的原則就是這個樣子那不過委員所提醒的這個是很多用路人的一個疑慮跟反應就是說速限的改變其實會造成大家的困擾所以我們希望大部分都要盡量是一樣的那如果有不一樣那個標示跟標誌要清楚一點讓用路人能夠很清楚瞭解"},{"start":7052.549,"end":7067.965,"text":"部長我想屏東你也很熟悉啦你剛講到省道那就我們自己的觀察來講省道的部分其實有些我們現在的一些人行步道坐的位置是沒人的地方坐到熱熱凍有人在走嗎 沒有"},{"start":7068.973,"end":7090.753,"text":"那反倒是我們靠近這個商店區的部分人家要做生意 要停車你們現在把它化成人行不當停車不當 做生意民怨四起啊 部長當然我知道我們有檢討機制那我們也最近也很多次跟我們的公路局也好還有我們縣市政府也好我們都在檢討到底這樣的規範合不合理適不適宜"},{"start":7091.434,"end":7107.839,"text":"不要因為我們要做的這些措施影響到百姓的這個生活生命的一個權益我想這部分真的要必須要重新全面來檢視部長願意支持這樣的做法嗎可以我們也會跟地方政府來配合大家共同來討論說哪些路段設置人行道"},{"start":7108.379,"end":7122.306,"text":"比較能夠保障到行人的安全這個是最重要的目標不過也要同時去顧慮到說地方有一些民眾的需求或者是需要那這個部分我們會配合地方政府一起來檢討"},{"start":7123.487,"end":7144.255,"text":"那另外我最後要提出一個我們現在為了解決行人地域那也造成了一個駕駛地域的一個問題很多我們這個尤其台北市根據我們掌握的一個數據汽機車的違規罰單當中為減速慢行慢行禮讓行人申訴率高達全國之冠測單率第二名"},{"start":7144.935,"end":7165.932,"text":"那測單的比例高達三成那這樣的執法的一個品質也深受我們百姓的一個之一那除了台北市之外其他縣市是不是有這樣的一個狀況陳副組長請說明一下有關這個部分我們大概科技執法這個部分我們的申訴率大概是百分之0.02左右這個部分我們"},{"start":7167.598,"end":7188.188,"text":"視察的眼前都會看一下那個整個那個那個影片的狀況然後再來如果民眾有提出異議我們就再重新看一遍那這個民眾當民眾如果認為說這樣的話不行的話他可以提出異議那我們會再重新來檢核一遍如果沒有的話我們我們就會透透做效果"},{"start":7189.626,"end":7211.769,"text":"我想我們應該更嚴謹的一個執法的態度要不然大家 你們開單之後 百姓要申訴 申訴完之後你們要撤單光是這些行政流程 有沒有意義因為有些道路在不同的狀況通常在開單可能有些失誤掉了這個部分我們會再下一個宣導"},{"start":7214.289,"end":7220.224,"text":"就是因為有不同狀況所以我們才覺得你們不能用一套標準 套用在所有的狀況這樣不過錯誤力很大是不是這樣說"},{"start":7226.74,"end":7250.825,"text":"同仁在現場看為主我們是事後來 事後再來審查所以我們同仁的教育應該要再加強這個部分我們同仁再加強宣導好 這未來我想我們交通部還有警政署我們交通部會大家一起來努力當然我們要捍衛我們行人的擁護權益但是應該不要把過度的執法不當造成我們鄉親的一個困擾我想這應該也放在首位來檢討一下好 謝謝"},{"start":7254.299,"end":7266.687,"text":"好 謝謝接下來再請林俊憲委員質詢那依照剛剛宣布林俊憲委員質詢完畢之後我們休息十分鐘十分鐘休息完畢之後回來我們會先處理一個臨時提案來 謝謝"},{"start":7272.284,"end":7284.228,"text":"感謝主席本時邀請我們交通部陳部長陳部長請 工總陳局長鄰居鄰居長警政署我們要代表是副組長副組長陳副組長部長今天大家討論這個"},{"start":7296.3,"end":7297.941,"text":"你看我們台灣這個罰單數量會不會有點可怕一年開2000幾萬張啦"},{"start":7307.11,"end":7330.075,"text":"這裡只有六都加上國道去年最多啦2024年開超過2300萬張每一個台灣人都噴一張我覺得這個數字有一點可怕而且不包含其他其他一般縣市只有六都加上國道警察局的2000多萬張"},{"start":7332.285,"end":7351.016,"text":"這是台灣人要操作嗎 台灣人開車都沒收幾次嗎還是我們自己本身的制度啦 道路設計有什麼問題不然你也說看能不能那個 蘇國的經濟稍微減少一點市區建築有沒有減少 看起來沒有了"},{"start":7354.986,"end":7375.056,"text":"2000幾萬張 紅燈越開越多 但我們的事故總件數光算六都六都沒有變得比較安全你看一下再來死傷的人數也沒有明顯的改善你看他這個還是持續的攀升"},{"start":7377.594,"end":7405.765,"text":"那民怨之所在我想當然違規啦 超速都不對啦但是政府的處罰應該是最後的手段我們政府每次都自己講我要先檢討我的道路設計有沒有問題我的標線號誌有沒有問題然後我才要去做最後手段就是去處罰嘛我才會去設立一些譬如說所謂的科技執法其實我看好像也沒有這樣子啦"},{"start":7406.792,"end":7431.631,"text":"我們的那種科技指法的設備設在哪裡誰決定工種以外地方政府決定地方政府怎麼決定很多 我覺得這個台南市給你看台南市就是說以分析年度數據還有各分局提報還有地方的明代建議我看明代會建議科技指法這個比較少"},{"start":7433.021,"end":7455.937,"text":"一般民進黨也建議設個紅綠燈啦頂多上紅燈上黃燈啦那其中我看主要都是警方在提報啦因為執法單位是警察所以警方都會說對他要塞對他要塞但越設越多啦那我請教喔我們的所謂這些科技執法的設備有沒有退場機制啊你說那設在那裡也不好啦有沒有減少啊"},{"start":7462.352,"end":7471.6,"text":"只有增加沒有減少科技治法這個部分目前是有減少那個事故是2000多件"},{"start":7475.987,"end":7497.486,"text":"死傷人數還是那麼多啦開單的人數還那麼多啦我們現在沒有退場的設計啦先試他們去看這個地方如果改善可能會把這個轉移到其他地方或是把這個地點拆除掉"},{"start":7500.809,"end":7523.734,"text":"你 拆除建樹啦沒有 包括沒有一定沒有的嘛 不怕怕嘛就有你警告 有你檢討的所以啊 我是覺得你既然交通部你要設立一個設置的標準嘛你跟別人這樣說 有沒有交通部這裡有沒有要設立七條 那個倒交條例的七條之二這條你有要修嗎"},{"start":7525.791,"end":7543.344,"text":"是 委員您在提案的是希望我們可以做一個指引設置標準的指引那也可以來討論這個我們也可以來討論不過這個要跟內政部來討論因為實際上的執法是內政部負責執法我們也需要尊重執法單位他們的一些想法你知道一定是要做來進步來討論"},{"start":7545.766,"end":7563.774,"text":"是 還有地方政府因為大部分都是地方政府在執行的你看維保的件數你看維保的件數也是很高都三十幾萬件你看好 再來如果是因為錢的因素"},{"start":7565.134,"end":7576.199,"text":"我跟你說這大家都吃得低了因為你現在發了很多錢你看對不對尤其對警察來講他其中這裡面分配有24%是給司法單位對不對"},{"start":7582.172,"end":7604.605,"text":"給裁決單位24%給裁決單位75%給地方政府那24%以六都來講的話就是地方政府裁決單位就是地方政府所以地方政府等於是99%以六都來講它是99%真正警政署的是剩下的1%警政署是拿1%警政署拿1%1%是給中央1%不是中央應該就是那個警察機關這個罰款我們都沒有"},{"start":7608.703,"end":7626.566,"text":"一天都沒有拿到嗎都沒有都沒有都沒有你要告訴我清楚啦那個24%是地方處罰機關那處罰機關不是我警察局是那個公路主管機關道路主管機關像交通局地方交通局現在大家民怨都說警察在黑白開端要開很多因為警察有錢收入"},{"start":7627.427,"end":7655.592,"text":"這個你們要講清楚啦都沒有我給你用麥克風講來那個開發單的收入有沒有都沒有都沒有都沒有喔你要負責任喔負責任沒有嘛一趴到中央來嘛對不對一趴進國庫 對一趴進國庫嘛怎麼使用跟委員報告對使用是個很關鍵的問題啦99%在地方政府嘛對地方政府怎麼使用"},{"start":7656.806,"end":7672.396,"text":"目前的規範是有12%大陸交通改善但實際上大部分都是拿來做設備的維養我所理解他們大概都是做設備的維養沒有啦 你也不知道地方政府也不用報給你他們不需要報來交通部沒錯這12%到底多少"},{"start":7676.656,"end":7697.865,"text":"報告委員 其他國家都比例高很多啦而且是真正有規範要做道路改善的工程但我們台灣目前是沒有這方面的規定我這個比例太低啦所以說你這裡的錢你這裡其中地方政府的收入你是從交通罰端收入對不對對99%都留在地方嘛是是你只有12%拿來做"},{"start":7700.546,"end":7727.307,"text":"交通相關的設備改善等等這個比例部長你覺得太低嗎報告委員我們有看其他的國家像日本或者是法國他們比例蠻高所以他們的那個道路改善的速度相當的快韓國其實也是這個可以調高嗎我們希望調高但是要跟委員們大家合作才有辦法調高我們也會跟地方政府來做溝通他這個有一點抵觸財政紀律"},{"start":7730.257,"end":7754.236,"text":"這個財政紀律法好像在108年有修訂過是不是這樣子是你現在 這個你要跟財政部談因為它這個訂的很實財政紀律法它訂得很細你現在訂的這個修正法律修法還是法規的自治條例規定不可以再去訂固定經費額度或比率保障"},{"start":7755.077,"end":7777.162,"text":"而且別人還用所謂的指定專管專用林局長 請回答一下各位委員 報告這個分兩個層面如果就法制層面的部分的話這個分配辦法是在財政紀律法這個之前那也確實我之前在想說要是不是可以調高那找這個相關財政部跟組總他們是講說如果就法制層面來看的話"},{"start":7777.962,"end":7805.16,"text":"現在要修正就必須要去遵守那個財政紀律法的規定所以原則上那個百分之十二這個要動好像是有違反財政紀律法的一個規定之餘那另外一個部分當時第二個層面是想說那現行六個項目可不可以來做這一個調整就是做這些把他明定做交通安全改善環境改善這個部分但是這裡面這個部分的話又會牽扯到地方政府我也跟委員報告因為"},{"start":7806.381,"end":7823.814,"text":"這個錢在地方政府裡面各自應用的情況不一樣那我每次開會的時候地方政府出來如果是交通單位跟警政單位出來的意見就會有差異就是說我也不反對這些錢留在地方但是你應該優先來做交通相關的改善"},{"start":7825.055,"end":7843.656,"text":"對 這個我們相當同意但是地方政府他現在不受規範他只有99%的12%裡面拿來做交通相關的支出而已所以局長你要給部長了解這個狀況部長他是同意調高問題是你現在有相關法律的卡住"},{"start":7844.637,"end":7867.858,"text":"所以我就說要跟委員們大家一起來合作你要找財政部 找內政部大家來好好的討論要不然這個就目前為止看起來就真的是地方政府的小金庫確實是這樣 固宅營什麼的我們就不看了而且你看它只有12%指定用在交通相關其他88%等於隨便地方的固宅營"},{"start":7869.04,"end":7877.513,"text":"這一點我認為有很多民怨可能也是因為從這裡而來他認為你那個用來改善交通的錢那麼少"},{"start":7879.229,"end":7898.8,"text":"路線標示號誌路口改善當然你更容易造成違規是 沒錯變成一個惡性循環好 我們主席已經在這我來努力感謝主席謝謝部長謝謝我們各位同仁 謝謝好 謝謝林委員 謝謝部長我們現在休息十分鐘休息十分鐘過後我們繼續開會處理臨時提案 謝謝"},{"start":7907.807,"end":7937.773,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":7937.773,"end":7954.971,"text":"是要海推也不容易的其實我們都會準備一個地方建設比較容易的 像海拔就會有一個限飛池然後我們就在那邊建設一個限飛池然後我們就在那邊建設一個限飛池"},{"start":7957.773,"end":7969.633,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":8507.182,"end":8513.599,"text":"好 現在交通委員會繼續開會首先現在處理臨時提案 請議事人員宣讀"},{"start":8520.719,"end":8542.594,"text":"臨時提案一 針對我國近期為洗刷行人地域污名大幅修正交通法規並強化執行力度 微查現行交通執法細節繁雜 諸多判定標準僅限於行政含釋或內部作業規定缺乏統一且易懂之公開資訊管道 致使民眾"},{"start":8543.634,"end":8566.947,"text":"長因不明瞭法規細節而誤判法網或受媒體片面錯誤資訊誤導 引發民間並耗損行政機關公信力 原此建請交通部會同內政部警政署針對此法標準透明化與法規資訊盡用性提出具體改進方案 建立權威性質圖解法規資料庫及"},{"start":8568.248,"end":8570.269,"text":"好 請問這場的委員有沒有要補充意見"},{"start":8593.913,"end":8617.203,"text":"那因為本期也先宣告因為今天交通部部長陳部長他有事先先請假就到11點之後他另有要工要先行離開那等一下會由這個五次長再來做後續的一個這個詢答那在場我也尊重一下在場委員盧明哲委員你是下一個諮詢有沒有什麼要先跟部長提點的"},{"start":8620.267,"end":8636.809,"text":"好來那請行政部門這邊來表示意見針對這個提案主席也跟在場的委員跟提案委員報告因為現在臨時提案的部分我們建議是一個月的部分改成三個月"},{"start":8637.901,"end":8664.429,"text":"就是在第四行 建請交通部會同內政部警政署於一個月內研議 那改成於三個月內研議是不是 是 剛剛也跟提案委員先討論過了好 那這三個部分其實相對來講都是至關重要 也是可以強化 用科技方向來強化我們的道路交通安全那我們委員是不是可以接受好 可以接受 那我們就本案修正後通過"},{"start":8665.849,"end":8683.149,"text":"臨時提案處理完畢 如有委員對上述提案補簽列入記錄並且刊登公報好部長可以謝謝來這張請好 接下來再請魯明哲委員質詢"},{"start":8696.482,"end":8700.647,"text":"好謝謝主席這個換武次長有請武次長"},{"start":8707.663,"end":8734.528,"text":"本來要問部長的那你就幫忙代答或者帶回去是首先第一個問題是當然我們也看到就最近行政院長特別針對於整個道路安全因為有行人的面向跟所有的開車駕駛人我覺得兩面的一個生命甚至有一些車禍整體的一個願景2030年他的目標是希望行人死亡下降50%"},{"start":8735.948,"end":8754.139,"text":"同一時間2050年剛剛部長也有說了整個道路但是含行人跟車輛都一樣交通事故在A1的臨死亡這兩大目標那我們就這兩大目標來做一個檢視在2030年距離現在大概就剩5年左右"},{"start":8755.78,"end":8781.977,"text":"那死亡人數 行人的部分統計去年行人死亡366人那我們做一個比較但是如果要達到行政院院長他的一個下降50%五年下降50%的目標就簡單來說每一年大約減少10%啦這是大家一個努力的目標但我們看從去年的統計1到8月到今年的1到8月現在有的資料"},{"start":8782.817,"end":8811.897,"text":"事實上人數差沒有太多目前就統計資料只降了0.9當然要到年底直接看那右邊我一次講完在整個道路整體的A1死亡的一個事故每年大概要降7%在2050年才能夠達標碼那這個部分我們再比較也是差一點那我們想次長你來說明一下尤其在行人這個部分要做什麼"},{"start":8813.357,"end":8833.986,"text":"這個下什麼功夫 麻煩說明一下是 我跟委員報告我剛看這個數據還是我的數據可能有點問題因為我看的我記得是14的1月1到8月應該比去年同期應該減少100多人才對不是只有0.9%是不是 那個市長可不可以來說明一下好 您說明一下"},{"start":8840.934,"end":8861.349,"text":"跟委員報告 跟委員報告那委員目前的數字是正確的 沒有錯啦那跟委員報告 目前其實要達到那個目標確實是有很大的挑戰性我這數字到底有問題 還是沒有問題你不要影片一截到剛剛上一段啦"},{"start":8861.969,"end":8888.932,"text":"那因為你們給我們的數據嘛如果有問題的話沒關係啊大概就說一下啦因為這個大家共同一個願景嘛我們要達到行政院院長的一個願景這個目標要加哪些努力而已嗎好不好特別委員可以關心的行人的部分喔那我們從我們的數據上看起來行人主要的事故是發生在路口跟路段那我們在路口那邊這幾年因為我們用行人停讓的這樣子的政策"},{"start":8889.512,"end":8916.644,"text":"每年大概有3%到4%死亡率的下降這個成效是比較明顯那現在的問題重點下一個階段可能會放在路段中間因為台灣的那個機車還有車流的密度比較高所以我們在路段中間發現行人被行人被被被撞擊的那種頻率還蠻高的那當然也有一部分是行人在跨越那個路段中間那這個是我們下一個階段在"},{"start":8918.304,"end":8939.271,"text":"強調在宣導的重點那另外也跟委員報告從我們造勢的鑑定資料特別是從婦醫會裡面去看只要是超速撞到行人那個死亡率很高46%所以這個也是我們一直交通部一直在強調在速度管理上面的重要性還有行人在過馬路的時候的重要性以上"},{"start":8939.431,"end":8959.783,"text":"好 這個司長 你剛剛講的一個確實我下一頁就是要講這個測速照相的一個相關的問題很多委員也說過了我們都理解剛剛部長也講好多次了70公里如果發生撞到人車禍他的死亡比例然後50 這我可以推論就不要開車出來大概就沒有問題"},{"start":8961.243,"end":8989.803,"text":"你就10那就幾乎是沒事但是我覺得這個部分一方面我們在推論在整個的一個部分車速照相一個交通是不是交通安全的萬靈丹剛剛有委員說過我就簡單帶過因為在我們就是在警政單位統計就是發生死亡的A1可能是駕駛人車上的也可能是行人總共的一個排行榜就駕駛這一端噪音屬於駕駛這一端他的"},{"start":8991.103,"end":9018.443,"text":"因為超速駕駛就你們的統計它目前是今年是到11月昨天而已抓出來資料是第24名所以因為其中有大概前23名有各種的因素是我們警政署統計出來的發生車禍主要原因是什麼那在這個的部分所以我們現在如果不管是地方政府或者中央的相關的一個交通政策"},{"start":9019.444,"end":9032.499,"text":"所以大家會質疑這件事情今天我要謝謝昭偉今天排的專案報告是我到交通會議來可以講最精彩的一天就把所有的路上的人都已經感覺衝過來舉牌抗議"},{"start":9034.421,"end":9056.513,"text":"行人舉牌抗議 行人抵禦駕駛人舉牌抗議這車怎麼開測速照相這兩個把它排在一起所以這個我覺得你們要思考這個問題怎麼樣做政策的指引剛剛部長特別強調說很多的設立是地方政府地方政府又是屬於警察局有很多交大 警政的單位也上來一下"},{"start":9057.773,"end":9078.428,"text":"對 在交大去會刊設計其實設在省道快速道路上面我們一般這個公路局大概都競表同意啦也沒有什麼不同意嘛大家為了交通安全可是因為他的A1死亡車禍他的排行榜就是第24名那我們再來看一看我們在網路上最近在談這個問題在駕駛端 騎車人的一個感受"},{"start":9083.872,"end":9112.114,"text":"我們坦白講我們是用這個全世界統計一個網站我覺得還滿精準的叫這個scdb這個網站大家可以去查叫做speed camera全世界統計全世界統計再加上因為有一些國家大有些小有些開發道路多 有些少那你要處理它的道路有些統計出來這是一個參考的資料那我們台灣的部分"},{"start":9112.975,"end":9134.705,"text":"每千公里包括巷道 只要開著道路通通算每千公里有82隻日本如果以他那個數據來講0.27隻新加坡26.9 差不多27隻同樣的基數之下那我算一下全球沒有列出來全球整個加起來"},{"start":9136.195,"end":9164.157,"text":"每千公里2.2次所以我是覺得就在整個政策的一個考量當然這只是一個面向這支數它的密集度就用它的這個國家的道路它的密度坦白講台灣是真的偏高當然我們再比較就是說它的死亡率因為我們多所以我們的這個交通事故的死亡率減少了那我們就要說亂試用重點可是一看"},{"start":9164.958,"end":9181.546,"text":"我們的每10萬人道路交通死亡的A1車禍其實還是滿高的好 那我想這樣我做一個結論因為第一個車速照相多這是一件事但是更重要的是速限的問題"},{"start":9182.666,"end":9194.855,"text":"剛剛也講了很多現在很多的駕駛人包括騎車的所面臨的很多的一個狀況叫做測速的陷阱什麼叫測速的陷阱大大的道路"},{"start":9196.109,"end":9222.887,"text":"然後但是慢慢的速度那個道路一看起來就大概可以開六七十 穩穩的但它有一些會四十是五十然後剛剛部長已經講很多次因為撞到行人的死亡率這我們可以理解可是問題是這種糟糕的一個情況對於駕駛其實我們大概很多都開車了遇到這種狀況第一個 測速器多不多"},{"start":9223.587,"end":9240.91,"text":"第二個 這個速限到底合不合理第三個是最嚴重的事情大大的馬路 小小的路口一堆我們都出過有一些比較先進的國家我們到那邊也乖乖走個五分鐘才這個路口"},{"start":9241.491,"end":9261.349,"text":"可是在台灣有非常多的大路即使我是三米的小路兩米的農路我碰到了大道路分隔島我一定要把它打開我想市長你有沒有遇到這樣的問題還是市長你自己開車有沒有遇到這個問題整條道路有些樹線到底它為什麼會遇到行人就是大街小巷"},{"start":9262.51,"end":9284.271,"text":"兩米的巷道農路鑽出來就是地方一定要給它開過所以變成一條正常如果大家都講正常在這麼寬的60米雙巷的道路設計就居然出現這麼多這麼多大小的一個穿越道路每一個上面當然都有人行道所以我覺得這樣的人車相遇的那種頻率"},{"start":9285.692,"end":9302.633,"text":"我覺得是有不合理我就開一條路這個我不舉例說明各縣市都有所以我這個部分我講我覺得交通部我們在過去討論行人地域的時候你們當然也可以說大部分的人行道都是地方政府所以我可以不管"},{"start":9303.354,"end":9331.843,"text":"那現在可以說測速照相都是地方這個警察局地方政府的我也可以不管但是不能這樣這個整個台灣的一個印象我們大家一起努力對不對所以我是希望行人這一端怎麼樣去改善那尤其在測速照相我的結論是測速照相的設立在一個交通政策跟財閥是希望越來越好還是越來越壞"},{"start":9333.323,"end":9361.078,"text":"當然我們希望設定的目的是最後沒有人超速了然後就慢慢慢慢車速照相越來越少然後達到我暫時性的一個執法的一個教育的目的可是現在不是是越來越多而且裁罰越來越多這個某種程度根據我們最終的一個交通教育的目的我覺得反而是背道而馳所以我希望在整體的一個交通的一個政策引導的這個部分"},{"start":9361.738,"end":9381.074,"text":"我們交通部也能做一些來引導包括內政部的警政署因為大概在桃園有22%的費用會進到我們警察局裡面也是我們警政同仁在做交通安全相關的使用桃園市警察局有沒有分到這個錢"},{"start":9382.495,"end":9395.06,"text":"零嗎 你剛剛講零是署裡面是零還是警察局那個處罰機關不是警察執法機關錢不是撥給警察局的但是有處罰機關他們處罰機關是誰處罰機關拿24%嘛 大家都說了嘛那不是警察機關我知道 處罰機關拿24%75%到哪裡去市府"},{"start":9411.705,"end":9433.682,"text":"對所以這個好法律規定12%要做交通安全相關的部分都進到各個警察局都有進桃園市是22%所以你拜託不要再講什麼0%的問題當然這也不是中央地方的問題關注他最後使用的部分確實有沒有到我們交通安全上面這是民間關注的角度好不好"},{"start":9435.627,"end":9460.42,"text":"跟委員補充報告直轄市的部分就是地方政府是拿了99%我知道嘛 24%是交通裁決機關嘛對不對然後75%的部分我再講有進到我們陶衣市政府警察局的部分我們希望能夠確實用到法定上面規定的交通安全跟相關設施的改善好不好好謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":9465.305,"end":9478.609,"text":"好 謝謝雙方接下來再請何欣辰委員質詢好 謝謝昭緯那我們是不是請次長來 次長請"},{"start":9486.403,"end":9509.952,"text":"市長好市長委員好我今天因為道交條例或是交通政策我想都是中央地方政府要一起合作努力但是我們中央也有很多是必須要好好的去督促地方政府要負起一些責任尤其我今天要談的是公車政策的管理"},{"start":9510.592,"end":9528.393,"text":"那公車管理的政策我想地方政府全責但是我們中央還是有督促之責譬如說我不知道次長知不知道這個去年的9月有一個東海大學生在台中市中區被大客車客運"},{"start":9530.195,"end":9547.694,"text":"這個公車這個碾壓 那往生那歷經了到現在一年多那家屬跟客運公司呢歷經了好幾次的協調都協調沒有結果那之所以沒有結果呢據上個月的新聞"},{"start":9550.277,"end":9564.615,"text":"這個協調的破局是因為聚業這個客運公司的當時候造勢的價值他承認超時上工所以保險公司不理賠 拒賠那只剩下這個"},{"start":9566.437,"end":9577.062,"text":"保險公司不理賠的情況之下只剩下駕駛跟客運公司駕駛跟客運公司的態度又不佳所以協商調解破局為什麼駕駛自己認為超時上工因為按照交通部現行的規定65歲以上的大型車職業駕駛現上午6點至下午6點執行駕駛勤務"},{"start":9594.031,"end":9607.077,"text":"那當時候2024 9月的這件事情交通事故發生的時間已經在晚間9點明顯違規市長你知道這件事嗎"},{"start":9608.636,"end":9632.275,"text":"跟委員報告我知道這件事情但是我不知道他後面剛講那個不理賠事情我知道當時那個基業這個有撞死這個東海的這個女大生這我知道那後續這部分抱歉我沒有掌握我之所以要提醒交通部我們要掌握是在於第一個現行的這個65歲以上的大型車職業駕駛的這個時間的規定工時的規定我們"},{"start":9638.496,"end":9654.604,"text":"有明令有規定這是交通部的法規對不對第二個他已經明顯違規了那為什麼地方政府竟然還不知道來我給你看我們現在的客車的這個客運的評鑑誰做的"},{"start":9657.953,"end":9670.127,"text":"主管機關以這個市區的客運主管機關是誰台中市政府交通局我們交通部公路局有沒有督導之責"},{"start":9671.246,"end":9687.427,"text":"跟委員報告按照權責這個對主管的市區客運區做評鑑是交通局的責任那但是我們對就是說為了提升全國公共運輸的發展對於做評鑑我們是有這一個補助是好那我就給你看喔"},{"start":9688.448,"end":9694.471,"text":"聚業公車的評鑑結果2023駕駛員工的工時稽查滿分因為得分總分三分在這個評鑑裡面17項的評鑑項目裡面其中一項叫做駕駛員工的這個工時稽查"},{"start":9707.386,"end":9710.389,"text":"2023評鑑結果滿分好 我剛剛說了東海這一個大學生被撞死的是在2024的9月你知道2024的評鑑結果這是在今年才公佈的聚業的駕駛員工時積差還是拿滿分"},{"start":9729.392,"end":9746.882,"text":"市長 這合理嗎我剛剛給你看了駕駛承認他超時上工所以保險公司拒絕理賠結果我們在這個公開2025 11月27號最近才公布的一個2024的台中市市區公車的評鑑結果裡面駕駛員的公時稽查竟然拿滿分"},{"start":9758.462,"end":9760.264,"text":"那我們中央有補助這個評鑑計畫有補助錢預算給台中市政府難道我們沒有督導之責嗎這合理嗎 次長你認為這合理嗎那這個評鑑是做假的啊"},{"start":9772.665,"end":9795.221,"text":"是 我想這樣子跟委員報告剛講因為主管機關是台中市政府的交通局那我們交通部對他有所謂的經費上的補助我想現在經費上的補助我想針對這評鑑我們是不是可以再你要怎麼再要求這個評鑑他的過程到底合不合理合不合規到底有沒有實際的去稽查去評鑑"},{"start":9796.722,"end":9819.923,"text":"難道只是靠業者的書面的一個呈報然後就這樣子可以決定他的得分數嗎我看到這個所謂這個本來工時稽查在這17項裡面的其中一項他的配分是3分我都覺得分數這個好像看起來不是佔了很大的比例結果我更訝異的是竟然評鑑結果他的得分還是滿分還是給3分"},{"start":9823.306,"end":9841.404,"text":"更好玩的是什麼 很有趣居業公司 對不起居業的公車在2023的評鑑結果裡面的其中一項駕駛員行駛之安全性從2023到2024兩個年度來看他的安全性都非常的不及格分數很差"},{"start":9842.984,"end":9870.798,"text":"那竟然在公司的稽查裡面是滿分我覺得這個矛盾顯現出這個評鑑制度做的不到位而且沒有核實的去稽查那這個市長剛剛有說了嘛公車的安全第一資訊要詳實評鑑才能夠值得信賴不然我們現在在網路上看到的公告出來的評鑑結果我都懷疑它是假的"},{"start":9872.714,"end":9882.461,"text":"如果你的資訊不夠詳實評鑑沒有辦法被人信賴那做什麼評鑑那你看喔是根據我們發展大眾運輸條例跟交通部一個大眾運輸營運與服務評鑑辦法"},{"start":9886.789,"end":9914.141,"text":"以劇業的這個評鑑結果為例跟實際的狀況是有極大的落差而且是完全讓人家不可信任的所以市長那我們中央未來的對他的評鑑的補助經費我們要如何的要求是我想我跟委員報告剛提到因為我們大概目前大概就針對可能會再請同仁再去看從評鑑的經費上的補助我們怎麼樣去協助他讓這個評鑑讓他更完整"},{"start":9915.962,"end":9940.402,"text":"我知道評鑑計畫你們補助的預算其實在整個比例裡面不算多但是我現在要求的是不管你補助的經費多與少我要求的是地方政府在做真正的市區公車的這個客運的評鑑要核實要詳實資訊要正確評鑑要能夠被市民信賴這是最重要的一件事啊"},{"start":9940.822,"end":9953.378,"text":"是 我跟委員報告確實委員講到確實是最重要的一個這個重點啦因為包括國共部局對於國道客運公共客運的評鑑或是各地方政府對於市區客運的評鑑這個評鑑的一個這個成績還攸關到這個虧損補貼的一個部分"},{"start":9956.582,"end":9976.961,"text":"所以這個公平性對科運業者是非常重要的一件事情就是說對於台中市交通局這個評鑑有這樣的情況這個第一點我個人的看法是台中市交通局應該要對外做說明而且要對科運業者做一個那個那回到這個公務局供應補助的這個部分的話未來我們會這個檢討如果說確實"},{"start":9981.165,"end":9998.125,"text":"這個我們補助給他去做評鑑這些相關的這個結果是有這個相關缺失或等等部分第一個部分我們也會考量有缺失跟違背事實對 對於他的這個補助可能就是要再做一個這個檢討那甚至如果說依據這一個"},{"start":9999.806,"end":10018.025,"text":"評鑑做出來我們對於他們地方政府虧損補貼的這個額度的話恐怕也要連帶也是這個銅板做一個部分我想針對這個案子的部分我們內部來對供應的機制來做一個檢討是市長很重要再強調一次中央既然有補助中央就有督導之責"},{"start":10018.846,"end":10040.491,"text":"那雖然這個權責是在地方政府但是我為的是台中市民在搭公車的市民他們對於認知中的台中市的公車安全跟管理都打了一個大大的問號12月2號才剛過去的那一天我們台中的公車失控撞脫轎車三名乘客救出送醫"},{"start":10041.511,"end":10057.128,"text":"然後9月1號開學日70名學生單無車 拖班沒有公車坐 造成這些孩子上課遲到 苦苦等不到車我舉這兩個例子是最近的兩個例子"},{"start":10058.789,"end":10088.009,"text":"台中市的公車的安全跟管理出了很大的問題而我們中央在供應計畫裡面對於各項的這個市區公車或者是偏遠路線的公車運輸系統是有補助的我們如何在補助裡面針對我剛剛講的評鑑制度評鑑結果還有呢真正地方政府對於他的市區公車的一個安全管理的問題我覺得中央要拿出專業跟督導職責要嚴格的要求"},{"start":10088.809,"end":10102.801,"text":"不要每年補助 然後辦評鑑然後每年的公車事故還是不斷我想這不是我們要的 好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來再請陳雪生委員質詢好 縣主席是不是請吳次長來 次長請"},{"start":10127.028,"end":10152.203,"text":"不是啊 今天講到人行道的問題現在還有很多的人行道障礙很多 不平整當然我最近在台北市開車也好 走路也好那個李士川副市長 路平還做得真是好大家開在路上都滿舒服的所以這個很重要 不要讓有一些身心障礙的 老人"},{"start":10153.396,"end":10169.69,"text":"像我們已經步入高齡化了不要讓他受傷這很重要當然我看到這個公路局的報告好像還要改善很多地方有沒有很像要改善1316處繼續改善它的長度120.75公里我覺得這個非常好"},{"start":10179.369,"end":10207.452,"text":"還有就是重要路口的順暢安全改善我們已經講到行人道我在前幾天的資訊裡面提到了行人的安全我們非常重視非常注意但我現在在觀察很多年輕人還是在打手機還在看平板打手機一邊走路一邊聊天嘻嘻哈哈的然後慢吞吞的他不管你車輛"},{"start":10208.905,"end":10234.235,"text":"你車輛我們開車的人急得要死啦比如說要右轉對不對要堵在那裡行人一波接一波的慢吞吞的尖峰時段當然我們要加強警力今天警政署也有來我上一次諮詢過了你要讓他快速的通過還有就是這個在人行道比較長的部分"},{"start":10235.535,"end":10244.381,"text":"是不是能夠偵測行人專用的石像也是偵測行人的綠燈讓綠燈去走你留一點空間給開車的人這一點OK嗎"},{"start":10249.757,"end":10269.11,"text":"我跟委員報告 剛剛委員提到的我開車經驗是這樣的就剛剛講右轉 路口比較長的有時候常常有一個路口一個紅綠燈過不了甚至有時候兩個都很趕這部分確實是有看到行人有少數的有所謂剛剛提到那個滑手機的情況"},{"start":10269.91,"end":10292.925,"text":"那這個行人專用十項我想這是一個我覺得是一個很好的這個措施我想這部分我們會來我看一下這邊給我們的專用十項裡面到目前已經完成了198處那後面我們想再跟地方政府我們再來協調一下幾個必要的就剛剛講的可能比較大的避免讓這個人車有60到80到那種的對你們有準備再做這個嗎"},{"start":10299.294,"end":10322.967,"text":"這個我們會來跟地方主席來協商我們絕對是顧慮到行人的安全行人也要自重行人也要自重交通的秩序要大家共同來遵守大家共同來維護這個比較重要行人安全當然是第一優先尤其老人 身障這些我們要特別注意"},{"start":10324.113,"end":10352.344,"text":"所以警力的部分 警方也配合一下像東環南路很長 八個車道八個車道的話 你一定要多設一個行人的實相讓行人通過的時間是什麼時候你紅燈亮了 行人看到紅燈亮了 他就不敢走了你要留點時間讓車輛走不要等了兩三個紅綠燈嘛 這個就比較不好了還有就是馬祖大橋 我本來要來找部長"},{"start":10354.11,"end":10373.556,"text":"那你請回 請那個公路局局長第一次的推動小組已經開過會了嘛那開會 開完會算了嗎跟委員報告開完會議紀錄還沒呈到我這邊但是我上次有跟委員就是第二次我開會的時候會邀請委員會給部長看嗎"},{"start":10376.287,"end":10403.648,"text":"應該不會因為是我共務區不會那就你們關著門在那邊玩沒有我們還是有邀請民間縣政府大家共同做討論還包括這個市裡面那個會議紀錄會到市長部長走了你跟他報告一下是馬祖大俠從106年可行性評估107年那時候我們總統任行政院長的時候他批的可行性評估花了1.5億"},{"start":10405.595,"end":10428.135,"text":"一億五千萬喔這不是小數字耶那你現在已經七八年了你看看淡江大橋我們昭緯的小區淡江大橋馬上要通車了歡欣鼓舞你起碼紓解了淡水出來的通路嘛是不是那中央政府一直在強調這個離島偏鄉"},{"start":10433.032,"end":10462.024,"text":"我說你上一次跟部長還誰討論 院長好像有講過你不要訂一些特別條例嘛你訂特別條例不如你好好講我們編入公務預算嘛那你公務預算也不給我編啊是不是 你公務預算也不給我編啊就跟剛才林局長講的你們開完會 局長批月可以了我下次我去開會下一次你要通知我去開會 開一次就好了我不給你們壓力好不好"},{"start":10463.018,"end":10489.049,"text":"因為既然成立推動小組 你就要去推動嘛丹江大橋完工 前面金門大橋完工金門大橋多少公里 金門大橋4.8公里丹江大橋920公尺啦我們馬祖大橋才3公里 6公里喔丹江大橋6公里喔對 那個920是主橋段喔 他講橋面啦 好 不過沒有關係啦"},{"start":10491.383,"end":10519.825,"text":"澎湖有大橋 金門有大橋 馬祖這個大橋拖了六七年了我請問 你送到國發會去技術沒問題 經費沒問題 還有什麼有問題那些腦袋有問題嘛 你懂了沒有局長人家說會吵的 會鬧的有糖吃啊不吵不鬧的 像我這麼溫和的沒糖吃我明年 我根本不擔心砍預算 我跟你講"},{"start":10521.957,"end":10550.936,"text":"民眾說我亂砍預算我就亂砍給你看我先把你砍掉40億怎麼樣這個部分跟我們報告下就是已經有成立推動小組往這個方向我先把他砍20億凍結20億你同意嗎不然你不給我編啊是不是嘴巴講爛也沒用啊我也不吵也不鬧那你們中央的誰我不知道啊腦袋是不是有問題"},{"start":10553.001,"end":10581.021,"text":"有狀況嗎錢也沒問題啦工程技術也沒問題啦為什麼不去動呢還是四七編了三百六十幾億啊我看多少億三百六十億有沒有虛編我也不知道昨天那個三接你看虛編那麼多我在前面講九十幾億變成一百多億一下兩百多億變成三百多億你去了解一下好不好"},{"start":10582.152,"end":10585.782,"text":"現在鄭裕萌董事長剛上任嘛再清理一下嘛"},{"start":10586.889,"end":10611.693,"text":"局長 你要做的責任啦是 跟委員報告就是說馬祖大小這個部分基本上已經在這個程序裡面做處理啦對啊 你繞了七年了耶那有些課題現在已經成立推動小組大家跟我們這個權力協助廉江縣政府不是 你要我來推嗎我拿到立法院來三讀一下 縣裡面什麼時候完成嗎"},{"start":10613.786,"end":10634.237,"text":"不好吧我們會在推動小組裡面積極協助這個連江縣政府來克服這些你最起碼很像這個這個設計的經費你們那裡有吧有基金嘛基金對啊 不要編預算啊我們公務局都要編要編公務預算你們沒有中油那麼有錢啊不會開大口講大話你起碼先給我編個幾十億嘛那個設計要兩三年耶"},{"start":10642.628,"end":10667.795,"text":"你不要以為馬上就可以蓋橋啦還要細設耶細設要兩三年的時間耶各位報告現在馬祖大橋的部分終歸要先這個核定後面才會有建設計畫核定才會依序這個遍列經費做設施我知道 你現在趕快核定嘛你不核定什麼意思啊好不好我第二次推動小組我要強調這個事情"},{"start":10670.12,"end":10693.039,"text":"那審預算怎麼審 我先幫你刪掉二十億你同意嗎陣營委員因為馬祖大小的部分你們不要搞到這個地步嘛 是不是一定要吵嗎 要鬧嗎好不好 市長市長 我跟委員報告一下我跟委員報告 剛剛提到因為現在已經成立推動小組是由那個局長他親自來主持 我想"},{"start":10694.045,"end":10720.029,"text":"這部分再 逐一去把相關的問題做給釐清啦那現在已經在 一下子你要上塔嘛 國發會在搞什麼行政院在搞什麼是不是 你要給還不給 你講清楚嘛你刀子一下給他殺下去快嘛 你把我頭砍掉就算了嘛砍掉的話我天天跟你鬧啊 是不是我對你交通部那麼友善幹什麼我有砍過你一毛錢嗎很奇怪耶局長"},{"start":10720.974,"end":10721.834,"text":"接下來再請許智傑委員質詢"},{"start":10754.727,"end":10778.943,"text":"謝謝主席 我們還是請次長跟公路局長次長 林局長請委員好謝謝次長跟局長我們有關於人行地域的改善事實上的確是有一些成果還不錯所以首先對交通部表示感謝"},{"start":10780.325,"end":10805.78,"text":"那就拿我們鳳山來講就是說我們的國台路旁我們衛武營旁邊那邊那包括中山東路三字街口這個都有很明顯的改善所以這個人民的誇獎之處也帶給交通部謝謝你們的協助那當然後續還有我們光復路捷運西站等等還有很多地方需要再加強"},{"start":10807.129,"end":10830.765,"text":"那有做的部分先改善先感謝但是就整體的部分那個市長可以看到上面的高雄市行人安全設施改善30處完成28處人行道改善1.1公里已完成0.8公里這個量體太小也就是說速度太慢"},{"start":10832.041,"end":10856.954,"text":"你可以看到內政部260億交通部140億其實還有很多可以改善的空間包括我們很多學校的人行步道都在學校外面那當然這個經費編到內政部去也著實需要有改善的地方那有很多地方還期待改善所以我是希望說交通部可以要求一下就這個速度可以加快"},{"start":10859.13,"end":10866.58,"text":"這個好的部分好的事情我們就做快一點讓人們會更有感這一個部分希望說交通部可以改善好"},{"start":10868.459,"end":10889.229,"text":"再來就是說我們的那個交通公園兒童交通公園這個部分我也要求了很多次了從以前我記得張雅琳還沒就職之前我們還去我們鳳山的新墻兒童交通公園那邊去參去參那個勘查那"},{"start":10892.574,"end":10903.713,"text":"我陸陸續續這幾年就是說希望說交通部可以去效法就是像日本的交通公園它那個是非常的擬真你就看左邊的圖就是說它那個非常的擬真"},{"start":10905.08,"end":10922.786,"text":"我們現在的新墻交通公園其實是不擬真的只是說讓小朋友去做一個學習當然也還不錯但是如果能夠擬真才會更好所以我也要求了很多次包括112 113 114這個也一直要求交通部要做這樣子的改善"},{"start":10924.071,"end":10952.659,"text":"那現在也謝謝交通部的確有把我們的意見參考進去所以現在我知道交通部做了好幾個地方了就是用擬真的真實道路的情況去讓孩子去覺知道路的危險感知然後或者是行人視角才能夠去讓小朋友將來能夠在交通安全上可以維護得更好那我知道是桃園經理站已經開幕了對不對那鳳山什麼時候開幕"},{"start":10954.654,"end":10970.7,"text":"各位報告桃園建築站確實已經開始開放做使用那這個高雄區建築所就是那個鳳山那邊目前我印象中進度到11月已經開始現在已經做好了嗎對 已經開始在執行驗收相關的什麼時候驗收完成"},{"start":10971.46,"end":10994.812,"text":"我在這一個跟他們確認一下那後面這個開放使用的部分相關的部分我們再做我可不可以要求一下就是禁訴那就是驗收完畢之後我想這個我已經要求了很久的一個對孩子有幫助的一個建設我希望說能夠儘早讓我們的孩子可以使用"},{"start":10995.672,"end":11017.064,"text":"那也希望說這個交通部到時候是不是盡快到我們鳳山做一個開幕啟用典禮我們來規劃在這邊正式的再要求一次那再來就是說是不是這裡交通部 交易部有來你們把意見帶回去就好就是說兒童交通交易這個其實要一起"},{"start":11018.499,"end":11045.087,"text":"一起來做國會不管是戶外教學也好不管是學校正式的交通教育的課程也好希望說交通部能夠跟教育部也彼此聯繫一下從小做起啦對 這個沒問題你看那個日本的小孩過斑馬線都會舉手你知道嗎對你知道台灣的小孩子過斑馬線會不會舉手比較少見是的你知道意思嗎因為他們人小嘛"},{"start":11046.195,"end":11070.548,"text":"小朋友人小你如果都舉個手至少那個有時候那個視角那個大車的視角至少你增加高度可以增加安全所以像這個部分其實在台灣你可以看小朋友幾乎都有人舉啦但是不多啦那這個是不是應該是交通安全跟教育部一起就是兒童交通教育是不是可以一起做這個希望你們再研究一下好"},{"start":11073.203,"end":11096.58,"text":"那最後一項這個台86銜接台三線大概幾個禮拜前我有打電話跟局長先反映這個問題這個對我們來講其實是相當的重要我想交通是所有的發展之母那也請次長跟相關的單位一起再要求一下比如說我講說我們今天"},{"start":11097.847,"end":11115.383,"text":"茂林國家風險區今天沒有來那是希望交通部一起做思考這個將來我可以變成整個擴大到大旗美地區甚至我茂林的溫泉跟寶萊的溫泉可以從山上再取溫泉水可以擴大溫泉區"},{"start":11117.355,"end":11143.477,"text":"就像我們去日本我們去泡溫泉很多台灣人去日本就是泡溫泉那順便逛風景區逛哪裡他可能不見得很在意但是如果說我今天茂林寶萊這邊我把它擴大變成一個擴大溫泉區然後我把茂林國家風景區擴大到大崎美地區那就包括我的美濃的客家我騎山的老街我內美的動物園"},{"start":11144.658,"end":11168.909,"text":"這些其實都可以做一個現在要做群體站而不是個別站所以我們在推動觀光的時候我希望說我們那個格局可以放大所以這個都是未來的需要那再來說說我今天國使也接到新威那邊可以到美濃到六龜那今天如果是我台86銜接台三線"},{"start":11170.799,"end":11198.078,"text":"那包括內門 岐山他們這邊有一個往台南的銜接可以節省20分鐘那這個南高屏生活圈其實我也推動很久了就是說我今天台南高雄屏東我們也做一個群體站的思考這個一個500萬的經濟體正好大家要互動如果有交通的便利他才有辦法把這整個的交通來把它規劃得更好"},{"start":11198.979,"end":11218.246,"text":"所以其實我到了地方去,你包括我們祁山天后宮的馬祖廟的那個主委啊,葉主委啦,那包括內門,內門我們本地文化也很興盛,我們有一個阿龍塞,包括我內門的里長、里民,事實上我到地方去,他們都覺得這個台八六這一條,"},{"start":11219.406,"end":11238.906,"text":"真的是如果可以順利連接上對整個南高屏生活圈對整個我大旗美地區包括茂林國家風景區如果可以變成一個溫泉觀光特區將來可以吸引外地人可以吸引外國人變成一個很好的地方所以我們其實那個眼光要看很遠"},{"start":11240.167,"end":11252.16,"text":"我們要有眼界要有創意那現在就行動力非常的重要所以這個台86我不知道目前就是交通部的規劃大概規劃到什麼程度"},{"start":11253.592,"end":11279.228,"text":"這個部分跟委員報告就是說綜合規劃已經這個處理已經規劃完成那現在就是說環評的部分兩次專案小組也都開完了那我們預計應該是明年1月就可以送這個環評大會那只要環評大會通過之後我們並綜合規劃就可以這個計畫就可以懲罰交通部轉這個行政院來做來做一個核定跟來做一個審查跟這個核定"},{"start":11279.668,"end":11298.366,"text":"那後面因為後面大概主要有這一個工程兩大部分啦一個部分是既有這個道路的一個改善那另外一個部分是這個新批這一個路段的部分那只要建設計畫這一個核定相關工進的部分還有就是細設跟未來工進的部分工務局一定會這個加速辦理"},{"start":11299.076,"end":11317.138,"text":"好謝謝最後我總結一下就是說為什麼台86這麼重要就是我剛才提到的就是說我們整個溫泉觀光特區將來在我東高雄然後甚至在街上南高屏這整個其實就變成一個南台灣一個非常重要的看起來"},{"start":11318.291,"end":11335.7,"text":"不起眼但是卻非常的重要那如果能夠把它連上的話事實上未來真的是對整個南高屏尤其是我們大高雄的東高雄其實會有很大很大的幫助所以就是照目前公路局的規劃之外我是希望說速度加快啦"},{"start":11336.6,"end":11352.851,"text":"就是說你今天環評我看你是明年六月嘛那你今天如果明年一月環評都可以先通過的話那可能再把速度加快我想這個是我們南部人高雄人的需求包括台南屏東人的需求希望可以盡速完成那好不好應該機會很大吧"},{"start":11355.888,"end":11363.776,"text":"跟委員報告 環敏的部分既然專案小組兩次都審查通過了已經準備要提環敏大會應該這個蠻樂觀的那就拜託禁訴好謝謝感謝謝謝委員接下來再請黃國昌委員質詢"},{"start":11382.352,"end":11407.871,"text":"謝謝主席 麻煩有請市長跟公路局的局長林局長請委員好市長好 局長好淡江大橋明年五月大家引領期判終於要通車了本來是一件喜事那喜事大家就通力合作 好好辦"},{"start":11409.617,"end":11424.725,"text":"只不過說最近看到媒體上面我們的侯友宜市長跟交通部這邊可能有一些溝通不是那麼順暢的部分就這個部分現在後續還有再進行溝通嗎"},{"start":11426.487,"end":11449.713,"text":"跟委員報告確實丹江大橋這個國人相當期盼通車之後相關周邊的交通環境也要做配套那所以這一個徐立斌這邊跟新北市已經有成立一個橫向聯繫平台什麼時候成立的在之前8月份這個他們父母來拜會我的時候就談到這個構想8月的時候才成立平台"},{"start":11450.453,"end":11478.335,"text":"那已經要是今年8月嗎對對對對那我現在就直接問來來來我看一下我們之前之前3月19號的時候交通委員會我們過去淡江大橋考察那一天我們今天的主席孟凱雄我們都有到現場去那一天我就當場提一個問題就是說淡江大橋通車是好事"},{"start":11479.793,"end":11505.695,"text":"通車便利帶來車流對於本來淡水交通的衝擊就會造成相當程度的影響所以那一天辦完了考察以後在考察的結論上面我就說了請公路局儘早啟動通車前相關準備工作要跟新北市府等密切聯繫要確保通車後周邊道路的交通運轉順暢"},{"start":11507.833,"end":11527.02,"text":"因為你那個橋很方便帶來了車流對於本來淡水因為淡水很有歷史嘛有很多道路比較狹窄車一進去一定會對當地的交通產生衝擊嘛我3月考察的時候就跟你們講了結果你們是到8月才成立平台"},{"start":11527.711,"end":11547.296,"text":"跟我們報告一下8月份是把它提高到局的層級那原來新北新工處跟我們這個新工北分局他們平常在攻進的這個部分沒關係我問具體的問題啦第一個怎麼樣被對既有淡水的交通造成負面的衝擊這件事情相關的規劃做好了嗎"},{"start":11548.526,"end":11575.315,"text":"這個部分跟新北都有一直在做這個合作包括剛剛委員講的是現在進行是還是完成是現在正在這一個進行因為明年5月是現在進行是不是是因為相關的你們跟那個新北市府的溝通接下來相關的公文跟進度都副本讓我知道好嗎可以嗎可以對啊因為既然我們大家關心這件事情我當然要緊盯嘛"},{"start":11576.536,"end":11595.869,"text":"要不然的話我都不知道你們是不是在講空話我到今天才知道說原來3月就請你們要做這個事情結果到8月溝通平台才成立起來我特別跟委員報告一下3月進行那個新工處跟我們新工委分局在工程的部分沒有關係啦你相關的細節你相關的細節到目前為止開了幾次溝通協調會會議的紀錄會後送到我辦公室可以嗎"},{"start":11604.022,"end":11620.962,"text":"第二個是你們當然舉辦一些慶祝活動這個都好事我也知道這個報名活動都是秒殺我為什麼知道是秒殺因為我自己有上去報名我自己有上去報名我上去報名了公路局自行車活動"},{"start":11622.085,"end":11647.632,"text":"我有報名到那是因為我們辦公室同仁很厲害手腳非常的快兩分鐘之內就額額滿了這個是好事代表你們辦的活動很有人氣但你們也要顧慮到一下淡水當地的民眾跟新北市政府他們的需求跟他們的感受那今天早上我聽那個孟愷委員在質詢的時候部長好像是說"},{"start":11648.993,"end":11677.41,"text":"名額不可能再開放了嘛有安全性的考慮是這樣嗎對於自行車跟路跑的部分確實是好那沒有關係那時間可以再多開放一點讓淡水的民眾有參與這一個慶祝活動讓他們可以第一時間享受這個歡樂的氣氛的可能性嗎時間可不可以多開一點你們既有的活動基於安全性的考慮名額不再增加這個我覺得OK"},{"start":11678.431,"end":11695.467,"text":"但你要考慮到新北市府跟淡水那邊民眾的感受跟需求嘛可以用的時間可不可以多開一點出來讓淡水當地的居民也可以一起來慶祝這個淡江大橋的通車這件事情做不做得到"},{"start":11696.566,"end":11719.211,"text":"問問報告原則上就是說所有在這個時間的部分不影響勘驗不影響勘驗之後相關缺失調整的部分的話那我們這個盡可能可以做使用的部分一定是盡可能做使用那對於這個在地參與的那部分的話其實在後面有些活動都有考慮到那相關細節的部分我們會跟新北市政府還有包括這個沒關係一樣你會後相關的細節要怎麼做"},{"start":11722.772,"end":11740.638,"text":"會後書面回覆給我可以嗎因為我很擔心啦有的時候在這邊聽了一堆空話接下來有沒有落實真的很擔心那第二個重要的事情是說因為萬里那邊的鄉親好不容易等來了一座機車練習場"},{"start":11742.859,"end":11770.376,"text":"那也要感謝萬里區公所啦他們很認真自己去找國有財產署那撥了一塊地讓萬里那邊的鄉親可以有機車練習場但問題是說之前萬里地區因為沒有監理站然後所以呢常常要跑到基隆去考照非常的不方便那有人就跟萬里區公所反映反映說那有沒有可能我們現在有機車練習場了可不可以在原地考照"},{"start":11771.837,"end":11780.345,"text":"那他們得到的回覆是說這個業務權責屬於交通部公路局台北市區監理處這件事情可不可以拜託交通部幫忙"},{"start":11782.812,"end":11804.799,"text":"不然這個課題的部分我回去請我們台北市區監理所跟萬里區區長做一個這個聯繫好沒關係你們什麼時候要聯繫一樣時間複製我辦公室因為這個萬里區的居民他們好不容易在那邊爭取到個練習場萬里區公所他們也很認真嘛現在架一個部分就是考照的問題"},{"start":11806.62,"end":11834.942,"text":"不好意思主席再接一分鐘就好第三件事這個事情其實我去年3月的時候就已經請你們就請你們交通部的到我的黨團來開協調會這個國道1號五谷交流道偵測北陸北出閘道的這件事情基本上面我們要改善在那邊會造成擁捨的情況所以跨越了豐江路"},{"start":11835.782,"end":11857.351,"text":"然後接新五路但問題是什麼問題是說你跨越楓江路接新五路後面還有三個紅綠燈後面還有三個紅綠燈會塞在後面所以我3月的時候去年3月的時候開協調會是希望建議你們是不是有可能下來的時候也可以直接接65"},{"start":11858.956,"end":11887.296,"text":"然後可以排除掉非常多的車流那時候請你們評估這件事情那你們最後的答案好像是說不肯結果辦通車的時候陳明毅議員非常的認真他跑去通車典禮的現場雖然沒有被邀請他跑去通車典禮的現場直接跟卓榮泰講說接下來還有中港西中港南新北大道如果直接這樣下來的話"},{"start":11888.965,"end":11914.852,"text":"前面豐江路解決了後面三個路口塞爆你如果直接接上去的話往新莊樹林板橋土層到國山根本都不用下地那一天陳明毅議員在那邊當場跟卓榮泰院長反映了以後交通部知不知道他反映的這個事情當天的這個影片貼到社群平台上面那個瀏覽處瀏覽數驚人"},{"start":11918.226,"end":11940.514,"text":"因為所有在地的居民全部都贊成他的建議全部都贊成全部都贊成他的建議這邊議員說我們去年在立法院就開過協調會跟你們講這個事講了你們也不聽等到開工典禮再去講大家覺得都有道理"},{"start":11941.857,"end":11957.415,"text":"那最後的結論是什麼最後的結論左翁他還是說要請交通部研議我聽到研議兩個字就有一點怕怕現在是真的有在研議還是現在都已經完工了不可能再改了所以也沒有什麼研議好做是真的會研議嗎"},{"start":11959.116,"end":11981.995,"text":"過去發生的事情我就不說了你們當初我們開協調會事後回給我書面講的那些事情我都知道現在已經完工了那完工了以後我們接下來要思考的是下一步怎麼辦下一步怎麼辦那因為我看到媒體報導說卓榮泰說要請交通部研議嘛那我就想要知道現在目前研議的進度如何"},{"start":11984.276,"end":12001.285,"text":"跟政府報告那個五股交流到偵測這個北出的這個可行性研究當初是新北市政府提出來的那因為主要的問題是要跨越風槍路因為當初的那個不好意思主席站起來剛剛我跟你講前面的事情就不用再提"},{"start":12002.245,"end":12017.931,"text":"如果現在卓榮大概請你們研議我只想知道是不是真的有在研議還是研議完了之前能不能接台65之前在可行性研究的時候就已經評估過了因為他要新增一個雜道而且用地需要增加比較多"},{"start":12018.571,"end":12047.671,"text":"所以它會涉及到新北市政府的徵收跟用地的一個取得所以我們大概有跟新北市溝通如果未來他們那個地方的開發的用地取得如果可以的話當然在基礎上面可以再做一個進來只是說當初就是說沒有直接接65的話因為車流的部分北出的話直接是要接台一它的車流比較多我剛剛跟你說你們前面那些歷程相關的配合我都看過了不用再複述了"},{"start":12048.411,"end":12058.14,"text":"我是想要知道在10月27號完工通車了以後左榮泰承諾會請交通部研議這件事情有做還是沒有做"},{"start":12059.331,"end":12080.843,"text":"跟委員報告我們有就是說就以前的分析就是說他如果要做這件事情的話涉及到用地的一個取得10月27號完工以後卓榮泰請你們研議你們有做還是沒有做有現在有做嗎沒有關係10月27號以後卓榮泰請交通部研議所有研議曾經開過的會議"},{"start":12083.556,"end":12108.564,"text":"所有開過的會議以及你們研議的資料會後送到我辦公室來可以嗎可以這樣才講得比較實在一點因為我現在聽你回答的方式我已經高度懷疑是不是真的有研議既然你說有我相信你既然有研議就把12月27不要再拿以前的東西給我12月27號以後你們具體做了什麼研議會後把資料送來可以嗎可以好 謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":12113.547,"end":12133.832,"text":"接下來再請鄭天才委員質詢好 主席 各位委員 有請次長來 伍次長請"},{"start":12142.045,"end":12154.929,"text":"好 社長好委員好今天的報告裡面特別提到113年相關的交通事故死亡人數2950人比112年少73人"},{"start":12160.491,"end":12187.727,"text":"少是值得要繼續努力但是這個人數還是相當多2950人將近3000人所以這個部分要繼續加強然後要跟相關的地方政府尤其是像教育部學校的部分這個要繼續能夠加強而且最好能夠"},{"start":12189.025,"end":12212.955,"text":"你們的數字要去特別去尤其是兒少學校這個氣塊然後各機關相互的合作才能夠真正有效的去把它這個能夠降到最低最低這個部分當然跟這個相關的這些這個設施"},{"start":12214.997,"end":12240.968,"text":"提升人行安全的相關的計畫當然又跟這個內政部各方面都會有關係所以這個就請你們繼續努力 好不好好 接下來我還是要談這個本席一再不斷地來去請你們繼續努力的地方就是宜花東第七鐵路設施安全改善計畫這個改善計畫這個"},{"start":12245.405,"end":12273.245,"text":"本席多次的質詢也去協調這個國發會然後還有這個行政院所以國發會在10月30號他們當天開審查會之後也發了這個新聞稿這個台鐵公司在11月11號也回覆這個在國發會審查的時候把這個名稱改為台鐵宜花東及"},{"start":12274.144,"end":12301.337,"text":"南迴線路段鐵路設施安全改善計畫從這個10月30號國發會開審查會然後你們做了一些修正可以現在進度怎麼樣這個部分剛剛講就在10月30號那時候就有審查嘛在國發那邊那原廠大概沒有問題那現在是應該是他報到院裡面去"},{"start":12303.865,"end":12309.072,"text":"國發會就在送行政院 送行政院因為行政院事實上在這個"},{"start":12311.681,"end":12334.801,"text":"因為我不斷的在追蹤了行政院秘書長在11月13號當時他回函給我是說這個國發會還沒有送現在的進度已經送了是不是對 已經送了這個還沒有核定嗎還沒有還沒有核定這個希望交通部能夠再跟行政院"},{"start":12336.202,"end":12356.249,"text":"這個負責的是哪一個處交換處就跟他們協調趕快成合是 好不好好 另外就是這個台11線就花蓮豐濱鄉港口部落這個外環道外環道本席也是這個"},{"start":12358.585,"end":12368.754,"text":"這個追蹤這個案子一段時間這個你們當時最後一次答覆是在9月16號9月16號是說這個這個9月15號成立預算約4個月內完成發包發包了嗎4個月內從當初9月也快差不多4個月有嗎各位"},{"start":12386.034,"end":12404.735,"text":"這個部分我了解一下再跟委員報告回去了解一下然後如果還沒有完成那個加快因為他這個只是一個綜合規劃評估嘛還沒有到要執行所以這個部分你前面沒有做好的話後面"},{"start":12405.649,"end":12424.474,"text":"你的工程 工程的相關的這些預算各方面就會延後所以這個部分也已經安排了相關的這些地方的說明會也都爭取了 都爭詢了所以這個這個後續的部分繼續加強謝謝好謝謝"},{"start":12434.485,"end":12452.706,"text":"接下來請邱洛華委員質詢謝謝主席 主席有請武次長還有道安 武次長請 道安是道安 杜正吉道安是市長市長"},{"start":12455.711,"end":12473.874,"text":"好 委員好 次長好 次長首先針對道路交通安全規則第83條之二修正草案和次長討論並請交通部說明那根據道路交通安全規則第83條之一第七款大型重型動力機械或方向盤飛在左側"},{"start":12474.895,"end":12497.591,"text":"之重型動力機械應標配標誌還有前導及後衛之車輛隨行自民國115年1月1日起方向盤飛在左側的普通動力機械也必須遵守這個規定但交通部在11月28號預告修正道路交通安全的規則第83條之二你將方向盤飛在左側之普通動力機械的機械像是吊車"},{"start":12498.932,"end":12524.903,"text":"免前倒車後衛車隨行緩衝期延長10年由原定的民國115年延到民國125年所以今天想請次長說明因為很多民眾包括我也覺得不解跟誇張依行政程序法重大公共政策通常預告期需要60天但這次交通部只有給了14天那請交通部說明為什麼是不是請那個相關主管來說明"},{"start":12526.386,"end":12551.212,"text":"跟委員報告目前這個法案目前還在預告期間所以現在委員所提的一件因為現在就是收集完以後我們會再一併來做一個通盤的一個檢討收集完什麼時候會收集完你們有討論過嗎我們預告14天預告14天是符合法定精神嗎那請也請說明為什麼縮短也請說明縮短理由跟法源依據"},{"start":12558.109,"end":12580.76,"text":"因為因為這個這個因為這個當時在公告的時候是有急迫性所以我們預告是有什麼樣的急迫性請說明因為主要是在預計在明年要實施所以預計明年要實施所以交通部只給了14天嗎公告期不是至少要60天嗎就是主要是因為考慮到實施的時間"},{"start":12581.758,"end":12609.169,"text":"那過去已經演了 那為什麼又要再演10年呢這個10年是怎麼樣計算的 是根據什麼樣的 你們有報告嗎因為主要是八成的車輛大概 目前時間大概25年八成的車輛 我們來看這個83條之二修正草案的總說明那現行方向盤 方向盤飛在左側的普通動力及一些均無前導車後衛能正常運行"},{"start":12610.249,"end":12628.359,"text":"然後施行前導及後衛車輛隨行需要三倍能力那有失平衡性且會造成道路交通擁捨為兼顧業界的實務需求及緩衝期間施行情況尚無明顯危害且多數接近報廢年限那請說明報廢年限你們有訂定一個報廢年限嗎"},{"start":12632.719,"end":12648.509,"text":"是因為考慮到使用的現況使用的現況那我們在可延續現行免配備標示前導及後衛車輛隨行製作法再給予10年緩衝期是所以你們就是要這樣子延了再延然後也沒有充分討論"},{"start":12650.329,"end":12674.748,"text":"現在就是在在那個徵求大家的意見 你們有要徵求大家的意見嗎那你們有會議紀錄嗎就是現在在預告期間 現在在預告期間那民眾民眾不解的是喔那這個報廢年限近了所以你們再給10年為什麼報廢年限近了你們反而還給10年了你們有沒有顧慮到車子的安全性"},{"start":12678.533,"end":12683.672,"text":"因為就是維持現在的做法然後就是讓他可以再延長一個使用的期限"},{"start":12684.845,"end":12712.386,"text":"維持維持現在的做法那吊車大型的吊車在路上它本身就有危險性那你們有沒有去那相信也有民間團體跟你們反映嘛那你們收到是什麼樣的呈現請說明因為這是主要是針對普通的重型機械不是那個特別大型的不是特別大型的那普通的重型機械他們是不是有要求說免前導車跟後衛車"},{"start":12714.521,"end":12734.882,"text":"現在目前就不用現在就不需要前導跟後衛現在就不需要前導跟後衛那你們有沒有進行一個完整的安全風險評估過呢然後也有沒有公開資料公民中來檢視那再來你們有沒有跟所有利害的關係人進行充分的溝通"},{"start":12736.03,"end":12751.128,"text":"就是因為主要是維持現行的做法那現在就是說如果再延長預告這個期間我們會再持續在那為什麼這一年就是十年你們是根據什麼樣的情況下去做考量為什麼一年就是十年不是五年"},{"start":12754.044,"end":12777.055,"text":"那是不是有業者跟你們說因為就是快要接近報廢的時間了所以希望可以再延10年所以你們也採納了這個意見那我不懂的是為什麼他都快要報廢了你們還讓他再延10年呢所以今天才向交通部了解"},{"start":12784.483,"end":12807.712,"text":"主要是他接近報廢那是不是就應該要淘汰為什麼交通部主張報廢那他還可以再跑十年我現在就是要瞭解這個問題因為主要就是我們沒有強你們要怎麼去做你們要怎麼去做去做監理跟管控呢我們現在主要應該說我們沒有要求他強制淘汰就是讓他延長他使用是希望他能夠後續能夠朝向自然淘汰的方式去處理"},{"start":12808.587,"end":12835.346,"text":"那現在你們有沒有要求就是這些車子要去做驗車動力機械就是沒有所以你們要怎麼確保這些動力機械他是可以安全在路上的呢這種我們回去再考慮到他的整個整個監理事務上怎麼去處理OK因為時間的關係會後請再提供詳細的資料好謝謝"},{"start":12839.448,"end":12864.853,"text":"好 謝謝 我們接下來再請游昊委員咨詢好 謝謝趙偉謝謝 那有請次長"},{"start":12868.346,"end":12868.978,"text":"好 吳次長請"},{"start":12875.29,"end":12899.822,"text":"委員好 市長好 那市長本期想要先追蹤有一個目前在交通部還回覆給交通委員會的一個進度就在2024年5月16號的時候本期曾經有針對北市發生一起李姓夫人過馬路時跌倒在斑馬線上那遭到一台貨車還到時候不幸輾過"},{"start":12900.842,"end":12925.765,"text":"那時候的原因是因為這個標限的防滑係數到最後已經是不合格了所以說本席那時候有在質詢的時候有提到還請就是交通部針對這個防滑係數標限的抗滑係數的部分還在全台灣去做一個重要路段的一個評估"},{"start":12926.946,"end":12947.825,"text":"並且將一個月內將這個調查結果回覆給交通委員會那在我們辦公室翻找的公文還其實並沒有收到這個相關的這個一個月的回報但沒關係那我最主要是想要了解一下這個部分那時候其實在公務局表示台灣"},{"start":12948.806,"end":12974.389,"text":"道路標線以交通安全規範的防滑係數是45BPM為標準省道會要求到55BPM那在這個全國的一個重要路段的一個調查那以及在改善的方案那剛好搭配今天的議題那我想說是不是請交通部來回應一下那這個標線對於用路人安全的一個進度跟改善的狀況"},{"start":12976.107,"end":12979.29,"text":"來是不是請 沒關係看請誰回答沒問題委員報告就是我們在過去其實有找過地方政府還有六都還有台北還有國度署來討論啦那目前是第一次最我們的高快速公路至少標線的跑行速度至少50BPM以上"},{"start":13003.451,"end":13017.294,"text":"但是市區道路我們有預定是至少在65以上這個是大概108年就有這個含釋下去所以說其實地方政府應該都知道說至少現在市區道路市區道路的繁華標限至少在65以上"},{"start":13018.331,"end":13041.569,"text":"那時候請交通部針對各縣市的一個重要路段因為那時候是因為有人死掉啦因為防滑的部分不合格結果到最後他一滑倒還有車子過來碾過那時候是有請交通部這邊針對一個月之內做一下調查那也把這改善的一個方案來回覆就是交通委員會那這個部分都沒有收到任何的一個回覆"},{"start":13042.813,"end":13069.953,"text":"那這個部分我當然知道啊那各縣市政府那你們跟政府溝通的情況跟調查的情況以及道路的標線的改善的情況到底是進入為何啊那法規的部分我當然清楚啊我們再了解一下那個當初的那個回函的內容因為目前來講我們所了解到請你們回覆交通委員會是沒有回覆啊公文也查找過了"},{"start":13071.124,"end":13093.636,"text":"那所以說我還是要請你們重新再來瞭解好不好因為最主要是因為這是鬧出人命的事啊所以說看是如何改善嘛那先瞭解過之後才知道怎麼改善好不好好謝謝OK好謝謝那要補充嗎沒有沒有沒有就我們回去剛剛講我們回去瞭解一下然後再跟委員報告好OK謝謝"},{"start":13096.24,"end":13123.607,"text":"好那接著我要請市長就是在目前來講那不是這題了目前的話這個三接案那在中華公園工程是百分之百持股的4C工程那這個部分其實我想請教一下交通部4C對於這個三接案交通部的態度以及說對於這個部分是不是要做一個說明"},{"start":13124.717,"end":13140.497,"text":"我想我跟那個委員報告世襲剛剛講這個問題那現在目前已經進入那個司法程序我想世襲一定會全力來配合整個的調查這我想勿枉勿重的這樣一個原則"},{"start":13141.118,"end":13167.154,"text":"那在這個整個價格 招標價格的一個提高的過程包括也有 裡面有提到啊就說中友提到說很有錢啊那所以從94億提高到253億那在交通部他是等於是完全投資完全主導的這個世西工程公司那我想問一下交通部對於這裡面整個過程那麼大的一個案子是不是都有相關的掌握"},{"start":13169.052,"end":13184.446,"text":"這個部分因為他是世襲他去接就是剛才講接受中油的委託他還針對整個預算做編列這部分我想世襲應該會依照當時的物價這些去考量"},{"start":13185.327,"end":13201.947,"text":"我相信應該不會有什麼特別問題那至於剛講錄音檔這個我們沒有辦法去證實他的真偽好 那本席還是要提到因為畢竟是百分之百交通部能夠主導或是就是相關的不管是工程師或是世襲"},{"start":13202.808,"end":13225.659,"text":"那應該相關都能夠是掌握裡面的內容那交通部在裡面的但是勿枉勿縱那還是本席在這裡提到交通部還是對於這一案來講一樣是要持要有的一個角色應該要了解的部分也必須要跟大家社會大眾來做一下說明那同時那本席接著再問在目前來講"},{"start":13227.02,"end":13244.254,"text":"工程會他們有提到要修改這個政府採購法還三家以上合格廠商投標他這條要刪除才能夠開標限制他在這個中油這案來講針對工程會的政府採購法修正那我也想問一下交通部的態度跟看法"},{"start":13245.851,"end":13268.602,"text":"如果是工程會做修正當然就配合那個工程會的相關的規定去辦理所以說交通部會認為說在這個政府採購法修正案草案刪除三家以上合格廠商投標才能開標限制的部分那交通部是持一個支持的態度我想我們因為工程會是全國的這個工程主管機關嘛就我想我們就尊重他們"},{"start":13270.083,"end":13284.712,"text":"好 那本席還是要提到一下因為像是世襲的這個案子跟棕油的這個弊案現在目前來講當然是司法在調查之中那其實在政府採購法的一個修正那其實也會因為這件事情來受到影響跟討論"},{"start":13285.732,"end":13304.747,"text":"那包括孟凱召委之前也有回應過在新聞上也都有看到對於政府整個修正的一個擔憂啊那所以我覺得在交通部當然也是問您的看法所以交通部對於工程會的這一個刪除的案子條文來講還是表達是支持我們尊重尊重 好 OK 謝謝好 謝謝油耗委員接下來再請郭國文委員質詢"},{"start":13320.907,"end":13324.093,"text":"謝謝主席 有請交通部武次武次長請"},{"start":13330,"end":13358.919,"text":"阿武元好我吃好 我吃了我今天跟你談這些有關於這個速限跟這些限速跟速率之間的矛盾的問題那在地方上引起相當多的民怨在貴部的這個報告當中一直強調道路安全還有包括交通順暢是你們政策目標其實更需要的是要如何去檢討 減少這個民怨也就是說所謂人本交通的落實不是在硬體的部分也不是在管理的部分而是在你在政策擬定的時候你就要這樣思維"},{"start":13360.14,"end":13383.189,"text":"那或許交通部會認為說這其實很多是屬於下放之後的地方的權責但是如果是所有地方政府都是有類似的情況的話那交通部的責任就很難撇清更何況你們有制定一定的指引而為什麼這指引沒有辦法生效而無法落實那是不是指引本身出現了什麼樣的問題這或許是大家要去共同面對的問題"},{"start":13384.409,"end":13404.61,"text":"那問題出在哪裡地方政府基本上所有處理到這個線數的這個部分只要發生這個A1事故或者是什麼事情他就採取一個最安全的方式以這個線數最低的方式可以達到安全的這一種思維 政策思維來進行所謂的這個交通管理這是第一"},{"start":13405.271,"end":13432.168,"text":"第二的部分它又可以取得大量的罰款來作為地方政府的一個地方預算的一個調度跟運用所以說基本上這是根本是站在地方政府的思維而不是站在整個用路人的思維所以沒有在站在用路人思維當中就發生有些一路同一路多數限的這種狀況不斷的這種產生我覺得對這種狀況的話我想請教武士你的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":13433.93,"end":13460.166,"text":"剛剛講的那個限速的問題我想做這個限速應該是以過去我想這是警政所不過我想他們做這個部分應該主要是考慮到過去你們有提出一個統一的指引喔你們提出一個統一的指引喔對 因為統一指引它第一個剛剛講的每一個地方的情況不太一樣每一個地方情況不像你們曾經用道路交通這個號誌的指引的設計你們有一個參考指引是交通部所訂定的喔是"},{"start":13460.666,"end":13487.708,"text":"對啊 既然是你們電電的部分為什麼這樣講呢就是同一個又大又寬的一個道路當中你因為要左轉的情況底下你擔心左轉你需要速度的應該減速結果你就因為這一個需要減速的部分用一個最低的標準你就降低了整條道路當中你就因為有一個轉彎其實同樣一個可以轉彎的地方你可以設置這個緩坡或者是設置黃燈提醒用路人這樣就可以達到這一個轉彎的這個安全上的顧慮"},{"start":13489.209,"end":13514.67,"text":"可是因為這個顧慮當中你讓整條路的這個速限都完全都一樣這就問題所在啊所以說我說你不要再推給警政署警政署當然我會就教於他們可是這個問題當中就指引的部分在盜安團體當中又不斷的強調你們缺乏強制性有跟沒有是一樣的嘛那本席就是說你是不是要強化這個整個指引讓指引的功能能夠更加落實"},{"start":13515.55,"end":13530.647,"text":"這當然我們可以去強化但是因為指引剛剛提到這是每一個地方的情況不太一樣我很難在指引去做很細節的規範是啦 你們有推出18個情境嘛你們有推出你們這個參考指引當中有缺"},{"start":13531.368,"end":13544.117,"text":"推出18個前進那為什麼這個18個前進還是沒有辦法發生這個效用還是不是單一的縣市的問題而變成一個通案的狀況你們難道沒有一個行政作為可以來進行規範然後落實來減少民怨嗎"},{"start":13546.539,"end":13568.682,"text":"五次我請市長和議市長請跟委員報告其實那個指引是我們應該是運營所做的那一份指引那個指引它原則上是一個大方向的一個規範那確實因為整個道路的樹線要設定它要考量的因素很多我也很認同剛才委員所講到要考量用路人"},{"start":13569.443,"end":13587.865,"text":"那這用路人也包含行人我特別是其實委員也知道我們行人對吧用路人行人更需要討論檢討是地方政府的心態嘛他動不動就限速啊A1事件的限速然後有轉彎的限速然後限速的話壓低了很低的限速的情況底下這種"},{"start":13588.966,"end":13616.587,"text":"限速跟速率之間是矛盾的你本來道路的設計的速率還有包括用路人的常態性的一般的常識認為這條道路本來就可以開得比較快的情況底下結果你限速不合理就產生這個罰單嘛 對不對或者用路人在使用道路堂的心理壓力嘛而產生了民怨嘛我說的是這些問題嘛這根本問題所在你要去面對的是根本問題還有跟地方政府溝通才能達到這個所謂的真正人本交通的政策規劃啊 市長"},{"start":13617.848,"end":13642.193,"text":"跟委員報告現在人本交通的思維特別是WTO跟歐盟不要跟我講那個我現在跟你講這件事情扯到WTO跟歐盟幹什麼因為這人本交通核心理念就是這個樣子我們不能單純從車的角度在看沒有單純車的角度我就說這個用路人也是使用道路的對象不是使用行人的角度而已"},{"start":13643.593,"end":13649.06,"text":"我就想說這個部分你要思考一下那個主席你再給我一分鐘一下好不好那我想問一下檢政署一下 檢政署"},{"start":13651.246,"end":13676.572,"text":"警政署在今天的這個報告當中的一個羅列的三個事項交通工程改善先行這個就很清楚你們這個調整是對的不然以原來你們的這個整個這個測速照相為主然後交通工程為輔這個真的要顛倒但是有你們現在就要回去檢討一下當初的設置的這些地點當中不是設置 是一種設計我舉一個例子就好"},{"start":13677.612,"end":13703.15,"text":"預警巴士快速道路本來書籤是90結果它銜接到一般的道路是70你就在那附近裡頭設計那一支放那一支那前面又放那一支結果這一支一年的收這個罰款高達多少高達8000萬還上了新聞也就是說這種設置跟設計根本設計用路人嘛不是為了交通安全來設置而是為了罰款來設計"},{"start":13706.136,"end":13721.309,"text":"這應該做一個全面性的檢討啦是好不好好麻煩請回去檢討一下那麻煩五次一下齁然後還有市長回去檢討一下是不是有加強資源的空間還有跟地方政府溝通心態跟他本位主義OK謝謝我們會確認 謝謝好 謝謝來再來請謝龍介委員質詢"},{"start":13745.088,"end":13764.463,"text":"主席我請出庭來 市長補庭要照顧他在庭離開請教 委員你好主庭辛苦了這個鄉民訴告你說有講解你們的統計裡面鄉民發生的訴告裡面有多少件是鄉民"},{"start":13774.532,"end":13796.704,"text":"這個串紅燈 感冒跟委員報告 我們目前手頭上還沒有那麼細的資料 是不是可以會後再補充這就變成教育的問題了 因為串紅燈結果發生鎖國的時候這擁楼林 架樹林的感覺很危困"},{"start":13804.878,"end":13818.087,"text":"我這麼注意,結果鄉民衝昂登出來,才發生這個危險,你的手裡裡面,有講到這個設備,全國所有的科技啟發的器材,有沒有經過你們的統一認證?"},{"start":13826.914,"end":13830.44,"text":"跟委員報告這個交通部不需要去認證這個東西國管企業科技計劃有一定的標準嗎"},{"start":13838.942,"end":13863.327,"text":"您用這個科技計畫是要改善交通保護行人的安全我跟您報告科技計畫最終是地方政府一般的所以您採取開放的性質就對了所以經濟事務等等都採取開放你可不可以知道我們現在一年只有這個法案修律多少你不知道嗎"},{"start":13867.722,"end":13874.505,"text":"180年是173億181年是289億4千萬182年變成238億4千萬一陣子開始大家都在注意鄉民的安全183年大概是245億左右今年有的應該在265億 漸漸加"},{"start":13897.369,"end":13919.764,"text":"保護鄉民大家都知道一定要100%熱心但是這不是只有你溝通保留在這裡 設平在這裡這是社會付出多少代價人家有去蘋果店所以有在要保護鄉民 讓鄉民得到的改變之後所有溝通我不知道你個人有在開車嗎我有 我有在開車有嘛"},{"start":13921.417,"end":13932.729,"text":"你有發覺台北市 你都在台北市開嗎?台北市主要台北 台中 台南 高雄 我跟你講 很多勇弱人 煩你怎樣開一個青紅燈 本來聽一個紅燈就可以過的東西 有賺喔現在變成要聽誰的紅燈 你有這個經驗嗎?幾件有啦有喔"},{"start":13943.444,"end":13957.716,"text":"所以這個鄉民安全不是只有這個版本是我們全民付出共同的社會成本的代價包括這個法金 你知道嗎 得手來自六島九年代 台北市是29億 台中市是28億東京市是23億5千萬 高雄市21億 台南市15億1千萬"},{"start":13972.985,"end":13999.465,"text":"現在這個科技計劃就變成了不看就不改善的空間了就讓它看過是白色的就放心了再來本席在各位再想到一個明明好 說我不怕小丁啊我的車就感應了 你聽到沒有就讓它開啊 明明好 它感應不到"},{"start":14000.728,"end":14012.513,"text":"這樣又重來 我有幾句話 我現在是說 很多 我們民意代表在地方收到民眾的電信用路人 駕駛人喔 行人也會電信 駕駛人也會電信你們有針對駕駛人跟行人機關 跟交通安全 跟法款 違反交通機關做一個通報的綜合並購物"},{"start":14028.426,"end":14045.218,"text":"我跟委員報告因為科技集團這事剛才說完是地方政府設的啦我們沒辦法去不然這樣我比較會說這個財政收支會分發鄉長一定在說的時候 老總統出來看鄉長一定說沒有啦 現在地方的財政比較早沒講 現在都比較改善啦齁齁齁 只有這個紅燈一燈都給收入差不多二十億落多喔"},{"start":14056.738,"end":14082.407,"text":"是因為這樣來改善財政的嗎我相信應該這不是他的本意 他的本意是要讓交通更安全 讓行人過路更好交通有更改善 宿舍有更改善 人民繼續所有的用戶人 家屬人繼續付出超度數的罰金罰款 這樣有健康嗎"},{"start":14086.42,"end":14089.329,"text":"我老公他沒有 兩轉幾壁啦"},{"start":14097.163,"end":14117.119,"text":"跟委員報告根據那個我們現在罰款的分配辦法就是主要還是過去都是用在那個那個警察的那個操作取締部分不過這部分我們會在研議說把這個相關的罰款能夠多運用在我們刀安的一個"},{"start":14118.179,"end":14143.818,"text":"設備的改善這個部分後面因為這是正版啦主席啊這要強烈要求他們喔你這樣下去就變成不健康不平衡的發展嘛法規越開越多嘛法規越嚴嘛越收起嘛還要讓你們喝嘛結果沒有實際的改善到交通的狀況嘛好不好大家加強建議一下好謝謝"},{"start":14153.5,"end":14173.548,"text":"好 接下來再請陳樹越委員質詢謝謝主席 請主席邀請次長來 次長請"},{"start":14180.786,"end":14205.05,"text":"委員好次長早安那最近就是有關這個測數照相的這個取締罰款就是成為國人注目的一個焦點那今天委員會特別排了這個專題的一個報告那就是因為在日前有一位藝人在他的粉專有提到批評說台灣的這個測數照相的一個密度之高"},{"start":14205.87,"end":14223.36,"text":"可以說是他批評說是國恥所以也引起社會廣泛的一個討論那他們就是也引起社會大眾會質疑說這個測數照相是不是淪為政府從這個人民把人民當成提款機的一個方式"},{"start":14223.98,"end":14251.512,"text":"那我想這個部分我們是不是也要請這個次長這邊先來說明一下有關這個測速照相的設置到底是由誰來設置的測速照相的設置單位應該是地方政府他設置的 對 地方政府他應該是依照他的交通的需求譬如說風險比較高也許他就是速度他會做一些限速度的一個限制是"},{"start":14252.88,"end":14280.672,"text":"一般應該都是地方政府通常應該都有一個道安匯報就是針對地方就是相關的一些交通狀況比如說交通事故或者是說比較危險的路口或者是一些比較特殊的交通狀況他們會透過道安匯報去做檢討然後也去討論這個改善的一個方式所以這個特殊照相設置的地點應該也都是會經過這樣子的一個方式"},{"start":14281.732,"end":14310.067,"text":"來決定那我想就是說從這個部分我們也看到就是說在整個台灣我們就是全國22縣市的這個有關交通罰款的一個收入的一個部分新北可以說是最高的就是說這個部分也是他們在列為年度的這個預算編列的時候的一個稅入的其中一個項目所以這個部分我們也是要讓社會大眾了解就是這樣子的一個"},{"start":14310.547,"end":14331.153,"text":"交通罰款的收入就是經由不管是警察執法的一個取締或者是科技執法這樣子一個收入是由地方政府一個收入那這樣子一個收入之後的分配全部都是地方在運用還是說有所就是中央或者是說其他單位有所分配"},{"start":14332.219,"end":14354.592,"text":"是跟委員報告我們目前那個罰款的收入如果在直轄市的部分大概是應該說地方政府先拿大概75%但是直轄市的裁罰機關是他們自己地方在做所以直轄市的部分會另外再加24%也就是說直轄市大概是針對罰款的部分他會99%都是直轄市收取"},{"start":14356.107,"end":14378.536,"text":"直轄市是99%是的那那個因為我看到有一個道路交通違規罰款的收入分配及運用辦法裡面有提到這我不曉得這是舊的嗎他是說75%是直轄市縣市政府24%是分配給處罰機關是指警政單位嗎我剛剛講的99就是1加2就是第一款加第二款總共75加24是99"},{"start":14382.308,"end":14398.446,"text":"是 那這個你可能要說清楚一點啦所以還是有24%是分配給執法的單位就是警察局 就是裁決機關裁決機關 是那我想剛剛我們郭國文委員有再提到一個問題其實這個也是"},{"start":14399.987,"end":14414.017,"text":"本席在地方有遇到的問題當然就是說超速的一個取締通常跟道路的線數是相對的所以道路的線數到底合不合理我想這個可能也是要去檢討的"},{"start":14415.098,"end":14443.684,"text":"就是說我們雖然這個科技執法這個有關超速的設置就是測速照相是地方政府設置的那如果說針對它的罰單特別多的地方我不曉得說中央有沒有就是說有沒有那個去關心一下就是說為什麼這個地方特別高要要求地方政府要去檢討在限速上有沒有什麼不合理的地方為什麼會有那麼多的罰單"},{"start":14445.445,"end":14466.848,"text":"我跟委員報告剛提到因為他們設計這個超速的照相主要我在想他們本意應該就是為了讓交通更安全原來的交通原來的道路他會依照他線型不管坡度也好轉彎半徑那些來設置一個所謂的應該有的那個速度"},{"start":14467.409,"end":14486.739,"text":"但是假設這邊也許過去常常發生一些問題交通的事故也許他就把事故把它下降或者是大家容易去超速他做這樣一個設置那個超速的一個照相那我們剛剛有提到這裡面反正75或24加起來剛剛有提到有些我們是希望他要把"},{"start":14488.781,"end":14503.443,"text":"這個罰款用到所謂對交通設施設備的一個改善這樣的話對整個交通才有幫助不是只是一味的說我就拿到錢以後罰款以後放到我的去做其他功能我想這部分我們未來再跟地方政府再多跟他協商一下"},{"start":14504.016,"end":14531.768,"text":"是好因為其實我在地方也是會遇到就是民眾在陳情就是說有的道路啊他的蠻就是說在行駛上應該是蠻安全的就是說他可能不是很彎的道路啊可是他的限速可能就50或60那事實上覺得說開到80都還算是安全的可是因為是限速50所以他只要開到70他就是超速了嗎會被"},{"start":14532.929,"end":14553.75,"text":"開單嘛那因為這個會衍生另外一個問題就是我們現在對於超速的一個罰則也非常的重就是會涉及到吊罩的一個問題所以這個都是息息相關的所以當然我們就是說對於這個道路的違規的取締我們的前提是要安全那對於就是說如果我們有"},{"start":14554.771,"end":14583.569,"text":"這樣子顯示就是說罰單特別高的地方我們可能也要再進一步是不是要去檢討一下這個什麼原因會造成設了測數照相還是這麼高的原因可能也要再去做一些檢討就是不要說只是就是為了就是設置這個科技執法去罰款這樣子那因為我們也有發現就是另外一個問題就是很多民眾反映或者是在臉書上也是有民眾在"},{"start":14584.73,"end":14599.626,"text":"就是在傳的一個訊息就是有關那個休息區的這個超速的問題休息區的那個超速的取締那休息區的那個那個也是用科技執法嘛這個部分就不是地方政府就不是地方政府設置的"},{"start":14600.885,"end":14619.943,"text":"跟各位報告那個國道的休息區是由國道公路警察局他們設置的不過那個網路上那個傳的都錯了我們在服務區那邊並沒有這個廣放設置那個測速照相的就休息區沒有設置他們只有在一處有設置而已"},{"start":14621.184,"end":14642.162,"text":"一處在哪裡好像在南投那邊是你們設的嗎公路警察局國道公路警察局為什麼會設那一處一般來說就是說因為在設置的地方其實都會是考慮到就是說他的事故事故率或者是就是說他比較容易發生危險的一個地方"},{"start":14642.918,"end":14669.925,"text":"是 我想因为这个问题就是说你虽然只设了一处可是现在被广泛的传传成说是每个休息区都有这样子的一个限制而且这样子的一个讯息的转传对我们好像也造成也是不好的一个印象我也没看到你们有什么任何澄清的有 每次都发文澄清或者是在那个网路的那个澄清区里面"},{"start":14670.385,"end":14688.753,"text":"都有 院裡面這邊我們都有相關的證據可是我覺得這樣的印象好像根深蒂固一般民眾還是不清楚我們再加強對啊 我希望說這部分應該要加強也不要讓民眾誤解啦好 謝謝好 謝謝請回來 我們再請李昆城委員質詢"},{"start":14699.602,"end":14716.115,"text":"謝謝主席 我們請次長 吳次長吳次長請委員好 次長好 辛苦了先請教一下次長 請問一下寵物電動車是不是車"},{"start":14718.801,"end":14734.99,"text":"寵物電動車寵物電動車是不是車我是不是請我們的主管說明一下是不是車這邊因為我們法規上沒有寵物電動車這樣一個名詞那應該是所以它應該是我們盜交管理處罰條例裡面的微型電動"},{"start":14736.371,"end":14753.966,"text":"二輪車吧如果是那個樣子最近看到的應該是我們的微型電動二輪車因為它是用電力為主的嘛那請教一下那現在有所謂的這種寵物電動車就是我們講這個微型電動二輪車嘛它可不可以上路"},{"start":14755.323,"end":14770.943,"text":"要經過我們審驗合格才能領牌才能上路那現在有你們審驗合格的寵物電動車是可以上路了嗎目前應該是那個新聞媒體上看到是那個應該是不是我們審驗合格的"},{"start":14771.831,"end":14786.285,"text":"所以現在有業者有送到你們那邊去是不是目前也沒有那所以不論是這一個現在媒體上面的或是說還沒有出現的現在都沒有所謂的寵物電動車到你們那邊去送檢就對了"},{"start":14789.688,"end":14813.475,"text":"因為我們按照這個6191條就是說你必須要審驗合格登記領用然後掛牌照才能行駛對不對那所以請問一下那所以現在這個所謂的寵物電動車根本不能上路嘛不能上路那如果這個業者他現在有賣他當然可以賣嘛可以賣嗎他可以賣但是他不能上就是不能上路"},{"start":14813.885,"end":14841.221,"text":"它可以賣不能上路所以買了當家裡當裝飾用就對了應該是說如果你要上路都要經過審驗合格那像我們的電動滑板車那個都是在好 那電動滑板車我等一下再問所以基本上現在這個寵物電動車它都還沒有經過這一個檢驗合格所以它不能上路嘛對不對所以如果有業者有賣但是消費者有買了上路的那責任在於誰身上"},{"start":14841.681,"end":14849.152,"text":"我們這部分我們會再持續來做一個宣導然後也會再發文給地方政府沒有啦 不是宣導因為現在"},{"start":14851.454,"end":14870.448,"text":"新聞上面就有桃園高雄都有就是業者有在賣他們也買了然後這個當然兩邊說法不一樣沒關係就是說有消費者騎上路了然後被警察抓到了就被罰錢因為他不准上路嘛那所以說這個責任在於誰身上是業者身上還是消費者身上"},{"start":14872.899,"end":14890.801,"text":"因為主要應該是業者因為應該是業者端那邊他要有他應該會比較跟消費者來講他會應該有比較多的一個法律的一個常識他知道說這什麼車可以上路什麼車不能上路所以基本上那車不能上路那消費者買了上路之後被罰錢的是消費者嗎"},{"start":14892.595,"end":14916.084,"text":"對不對因為他騎上路了就違反我們的這個道交處罰條例嘛對不對但是您剛才講的就是說那業者要負相對的責任就對了他的責任在哪裡因為他販售就是不合格的車輛然後如果說他因為那個最近看到那個新聞是他好像是有跟消費者說這個車子可以上路所以就成了一個糾紛"},{"start":14917.384,"end":14944.133,"text":"因為我有看到他們的這一個其中某一個業者的網站他上面有提到說法規在調整的階段但是他還提到說依照現行的規定合法騎乘路段限於腳踏車到公園私人空地等開放空間有嗎 可以嗎腳踏車到公園私人空地等開放空間可以嗎"},{"start":14945.247,"end":14957.86,"text":"這個是針對就是我們審驗合格的那個沒有啦現在沒有任何的審驗合格的這一個所謂的這一個寵物電動車嘛對不對是可是沒有嘛所以基本上"},{"start":14959.127,"end":14978.327,"text":"我可以這麼樣講目前沒有一台檢驗合格的寵物電動車那理論上他買了之後只能在家裡面讓寵物坐他不能夠騎出去就對了他只要騎出去就是違法所以也沒有所謂說你可以在公園、空地、腳踏車道"},{"start":14981.008,"end":15007.684,"text":"騎就對了主要是我們處罰條例公告的道路範圍這都不可以如果他這邊講的私人空地你要在家裡的院子騎那公園勒公園因為你勢必就是一定要經過道路啊那個部分就可能會有所以就不行嘛所以結論就是說他可以賣但是不能騎出去就對了那如果騎出去業者要負相對的責任就對了是"},{"start":15009.232,"end":15025.55,"text":"主席不好意思 我再請教最後一個現在我們拒絕酒測當然就是可以罰緩一次就罰18萬而且可以罰緩無上限但是最近也有看到一個例子台北市有個年輕男子"},{"start":15026.431,"end":15055.555,"text":"拒絕酒測高達七次罰超過五百萬但是他可能名下沒有財產吧無照上路然後騎車自摔然後呢因為騎車自摔所以酒測超標才依公共危險罪含送請問一下現在對於這一種他反正你就是酒測他就是拒絕拒絕你酒測然後被罰錢他也不管我看這個累積都蠻多的我們交通部或是警政署都拿他沒辦法嗎"},{"start":15057.356,"end":15082.167,"text":"目前就是依照我們現在處罰條例就是針對他的那個罰款的部分然後處理然後另外刑罰的部分還有移送公共危險罪那一塊就是酒駕罰則的部分那可以當場比如說當場就是警察認為說這個他給我測應該 聞起來就是喝酒但是他不給我酒測我應該 這個警察要怎麼處理咧"},{"start":15083.26,"end":15108.02,"text":"因為這可能要看現場執勤的警察是不是有依照他的職權行使法或者是像社會法的部分來做處理所以基本上他如果拒絕酒測你也拿他沒辦法就對了目前就是罰款的部分就是最高就是處罰就是數十八萬十八萬這樣子累積上去就對了不知道可以請警政署就現場執勤警政署這邊就簡單主席不好意思簡單答覆就好做個ending"},{"start":15113.735,"end":15124.941,"text":"報告委員如果符合185條之三那個酒駕的規定的話可以報請檢察官可以那個抽選強制願選並要再函給檢察官不然其他發掘只能強制執行強制執行"},{"start":15131.452,"end":15158.249,"text":"對啊 如果他不給你酒測你當場拿他沒辦法當場如果符合185條之3的新法規定的話就報請檢察官開強制驗血的抽血需求還在報請檢察官喔這個流程不是很長了嗎實務上哪有可能大概目前就只有這個樣子好啦 點出這個問題來你們去想一下好不好這短時間大概也沒辦法回覆好 謝謝 謝謝主席謝謝好 謝謝 官員請回"},{"start":15159.855,"end":15183.283,"text":"好 今天非常的生意非常的好來 接下來再請我們葉元智委員質詢不過這也是好事啦大家都願意共同來關心台灣的交通我們一起努力讓台灣越來越好來主席好 麻煩請交通部好 伍次長次長好 伍次長請"},{"start":15188.547,"end":15217.142,"text":"委員好這個我之前曾經有關心過區間測速的問題那當時好像不是曾經質詢過陳士凱部長陳士凱部長就推給別人然後後來又再質詢過一次另外一位次長不是您那他當時是有承諾說會給我一個全國通盤的檢討報告因為我在跟他詢答的時候我沒有舉出很多區間測速不合理的地方而且那應該是由交通部來統籌的他答應"},{"start":15218.443,"end":15241.918,"text":"結果回給我們的文是非常荒謬第一個解釋什麼叫區間測速然後講說這個區間測速就是最終目的是在控制危險或讓那個易發生的路段的速度均勻就是解釋一下這個原理然後再講說這個是各縣市政府的事情然後最後講說用路人本來就應該守樹線"},{"start":15244.15,"end":15252.666,"text":"然後最後推給內政部說即便是要檢討也應該是內政部的事天啊 我覺得交通部居然可以這個樣子耶我覺得非常的荒謬耶"},{"start":15253.837,"end":15275.578,"text":"交通部在過去在區間測速的時候我記得非常清楚當時區間測速沒有標準是交通部跳出來找標準局定一個標準出來後來說有一度發生就是區間測速的鏡頭是用到大陸製的鏡頭當時林佳龍部長也說哪一個縣市政府你如果再沒有給我改的話區間測速不補助"},{"start":15277.359,"end":15299.074,"text":"所以交通部對於區間測速本來就是有責任結果現在可以把這個區間測速可以推得一乾二淨跟你交通部都無關那社長你們為什麼態度是這樣啊我跟委員報告確實剛提到的區間測速它的全責是在警政單位啊不是啦 警政單位我講一個好不好是"},{"start":15300.097,"end":15311.389,"text":"台六四台六五為什麼會有區間撤訴是因為新北市的警察局接受公路局的委託請問一下公路局是交通部還是警政署"},{"start":15313.339,"end":15341.618,"text":"公路局是交通部還是警政署市長公路局是交通部還是警政署公路局我沒有找公路局我是問你交通部交通部嘛是所以怎麼可以推給警政署呢如果不是交通部針對交通安全的話警政署沒事他去訂這個公運幹嘛所以你們作為一個全國的機關應該訂定一個指引出來嘛針對全台灣這麼多縣市這麼多人民對於區間廁所質疑你要訂定一個指引讓各縣市政府來遵守"},{"start":15342.378,"end":15371.556,"text":"不是說跟你們都毫無關係啦我先就問市長你知不知道為什麼全台灣那麼多人對區間測數很反感你知道原因嗎你知不知道原因你完全不知道交通部完全對於大家對區間測數的反感完全不知道完全不知道不是 因為這不是我的夜館所以我沒那麼清楚區間測數現在不是在講那個測數的問題嗎那你不是因為部長沒來所以欸 主席我可以暫停一下是可以這樣子喔 主席"},{"start":15372.438,"end":15387.11,"text":"部長有事然後找了一個對於這個速限管理比較不了解的人說不是他業管業務所以他不了解可以這樣子喔可以要求官員說明他說他不了解啊不是 我可以請我的那個業管的那個同仁來說明嗎業管同仁 好"},{"start":15391.67,"end":15404.018,"text":"跟委員報告我們了解區間測數最近在社會上討論的熱度很高可是我們還是必須要強調區間測數它是一個執法的行為我現在在問什麼問題"},{"start":15406.004,"end":15429.151,"text":"我問什麼問題 你就針對我的問題回答因為市長不想回答 叫你回答你就針對我的問題回答就好了我的問題是什麼區間測速它 我們在那個不是 我的問題是什麼你剛才有提到在幾個快速道路上面是公路局去拜託我的問題是說為什麼現在各界很多用戶人對於區間測速很反感你知道原因嗎"},{"start":15430.931,"end":15456.574,"text":"我個人的理解 第一個可能是開單的數量很多那第二個 對於這樣子的錢 就是那個罰金似乎是沒有用在道路的交易我跟你講 第一個啦大家覺得說這不會達到效果啦不會達到效果 去年測數 你這測頭尾嘛所以很多人一開始速度超過了快要到的時候開始減速嘛減速之後就造成回賭嘛"},{"start":15458.069,"end":15481.23,"text":"而且大家 照道理來講發生車禍最主要原因是因為沒有跟前面保持安全距離結果現在為了要盯那個速限有沒有超過平均所以要一直看著儀表板反而沒有去跟前面保持安全距離所以你不見得安全啊還有第二個就是密度太高了嘛光台六市中間一段有五個區間測速"},{"start":15483.206,"end":15510.761,"text":"所以第一個數卷定的很不合理嘛第二個你密度定到那麼高嘛而且第三個你到底能不能達到真正的效果嘛大家現在質疑的是這件事情跟委員說明一下從警政署的資料上看起來區間測數或者是科技執法的路段的檔案是有改善的哪一個路段不是每一個路段都有改善啊我們是有數據的而且你有的是很不合理嘛譬如說數卷部分我看到網路上有一個影片"},{"start":15511.641,"end":15533.132,"text":"他在北宜公路上面一條下坡然後腳踏車一下就超速了速限不合理密度太高而且區間車速它本身的問題國外很多是沒有測速照相機的耶加拿大加拿大現在把那個有一個省把那個測速照相機全部都拆掉啦因為他認為改善道路才是重點啦"},{"start":15533.692,"end":15562.628,"text":"所有的用路人會根據這個道路的路寬視野或他離房屋的遠近程度自己會判斷安全距離嘛你現在就是直接定時而且那個速度那個數字是變來變去的一下這邊是30一下那邊是40跟委員報告加拿大那個例子全世界只有他這個例子他還沒有沒有你要來講國外的例子我也可以跟你講啦歐美國家他的速限很多都是固定的啦不會像我們這樣子跳來跳去啦密度也沒有那麼高啦如果要講國外的話講不完了啦"},{"start":15563.462,"end":15579.376,"text":"我現在會這麼憤怒的原因是因為之前就已經跟你們講說做全國的通盤檢討結果回這種文來我是在問你區間測數的定義嗎你們交通部對於區間測數的這種反應比那個AI還不如啦"},{"start":15581.127,"end":15604.512,"text":"AI講得還比你們清楚現在是請你們針對這個區間測數做通盤檢討定出一個指引到底密度應該定多高速度應該定多高甚至於如果發現很多地方效果不好的話就應該要廢除現在講的是這件事情可不可以給一個認真針對區間測數回一個報告可以嗎不要這樣敷衍好不好"},{"start":15609.284,"end":15630.998,"text":"市長報委員 我剛提的說譬如說要去訂說到底密度多少這真的是要依照每一個路段對嘛 那你就去看嘛那你訂個指引啊你訂個怎麼樣路段 怎麼樣路寬怎麼樣的標準應該怎麼做你訂個指引出來啊然後大家可以針對這指引做討論啊各縣政府有個遵循啊有那麼困難嗎"},{"start":15632.051,"end":15646.946,"text":"市長 是不是我們相關單位到業委員辦公室這邊再做一個不是 你現在就承諾嘛因為這個是之前就承諾要給的東西啊結果你回一個公文來比AI寫的還不如來敷衍我們你現在就承諾啊"},{"start":15648.171,"end":15663.361,"text":"大家都很想知道啦大家都很知道區間測速標準怎麼定出來的因為區間測速它是一個執法的行為以交通部的立場我沒有辦法跟警政單位說哪裡可以執法哪裡不可以那你公路局為什麼委託新北市警察局在六四上面設那麼多區間測速"},{"start":15670.235,"end":15694.46,"text":"是不是在會後到沒有 我要一個回文我要一個檢討報告根本報告下台六十四 台六十五部分並不是這一個公務局去委託警察機關建置是這個執法設備當時在早期有補助設備的建置但是設備的建置還是由警察機關來做建置他是他建置你有沒有叫他去建置沒有"},{"start":15695.36,"end":15707.791,"text":"沒有 所以這個是警政署有來嗎所以警政署這個完全區間測數都是你們看的這個跑去測跑去見的嗎跟交通單位都沒關"},{"start":15712.745,"end":15739.8,"text":"地方報上來的當然地方報 地方警政單位嘛警政一定要編嘛所以都是地方警政報上來的是他們自己決定我明明看到的資料是說他們接受公務局的委託現在大家突然推舉都不想要碰這一塊這個部分我就不瞭解了我們執行員每一個都不瞭解每一個都不瞭解你事後給一份檢討報告這是之前答應要給的我現在是針對你給的報告不滿意嘛"},{"start":15743.188,"end":15761.569,"text":"主席可不可以裁示一下主席在針對這個葉委員需要的報告我想先跟葉委員再了解一下葉委員關心的一個方向那並且在葉委員要求時間裡面回覆葉委員報告好不好好我覺得一個月內因為這個是之前大家要給的"},{"start":15762.836,"end":15779.797,"text":"你們盡速跟葉委員來做一個了解跟不用了解了啦就是直接給報告就好了主席採視一下這樣知道葉委員想要的方向嗎我們會後再跟委員報告好了好不好"},{"start":15782.014,"end":15802.635,"text":"不是讓他們到你辦公室我要一個通盤檢討確認是說那個通盤檢討報告到底要寫到什麼樣的一個程度其實葉委員所提出來關心議題我們前面幾位委員也都已經有關心過不管是區間照相不管是測數照相其實這都是議題的狀況那本席也說剛剛部長在"},{"start":15805.45,"end":15823.642,"text":"幾位委員職群的時候也有答覆說可以找縣市政府這邊來開會所以是不是針對業委員這邊所特別關心測速照相的部分尤其是有特定路段的地方那也可以來了解之後那依照業委員需要時間裡面進促的回應這樣可以嗎好 謝謝這樣可以嗎"},{"start":15830.357,"end":15858.918,"text":"我還是希望我們再跟找同仁再跟那個葉委員這邊我剛不是已經講了嗎就是你們再同仁再到葉委員辦公室來確認一下是那之後一起有做回應的時候再盡速的提供回覆給葉委員這樣可以嗎好 我們要召委的差事好 謝謝來 官員請回來 接下來再請徐欣盈委員質詢"},{"start":15861.161,"end":15878.852,"text":"那我們還剩後面幾位委員我們就一併質詢完畢之後我們會休息10分鐘 謝謝來謝謝主席 本席有請交通部武次長來武次長請"},{"start":15886.483,"end":15901.709,"text":"委員好市長 本席請教你這個我們在穿越比較寬大的馬路30米或20米以上的這種馬路的時候我們都要走斑馬線那我走到路口的時候我突然發現這個小綠人"},{"start":15903.57,"end":15922.442,"text":"他剛開始變快就是閃爍那因為我腳程快我也可以小跑步過這個馬路所以我就很快的等於說就快速的過馬路您覺得這樣還OK嗎我是要回答問的我就是要請你問就是我剛這樣描述還OK嗎"},{"start":15925.754,"end":15948.054,"text":"因為剛講如果那個秒數不太夠如果讓你去用快步的快速的腳步去跑的話其實會容易發生危險不是 我就跟你講我腳城快 我腳也長我就跑過去而且我跑到的時候還剛好這是很難判斷說這樣可以嗎我就請教你這樣可以嗎你覺得"},{"start":15950.613,"end":15977.335,"text":"沒有辦法去了解說確認對沒有辦法確認說他是不是可以安全到達你身為交通部次長你都不知道那我不知道上來的這位是我們司長司長那司長你覺得我這樣OK嗎原則上我們並不鼓勵行人在行川線上面跑步那我這樣有違法嗎沒有OK那可是我們有民眾就因為這樣"},{"start":15978.928,"end":16007.662,"text":"就被開罰了500塊而且我這邊沒有我們好像交通道路管理條例第幾條我的助理不見了207條 207條規定是不行的我這個要講的是什麼我也是因為今天我們英明的召委排了這個行人交通道路安全我們在討論這個議題然後收集民眾的很多的反應"},{"start":16008.817,"end":16021.108,"text":"我也才知道 我这样是违法的市长 我要讲的是我们前两年因为被国外媒体披露说台湾是行人的地狱"},{"start":16022.031,"end":16050.548,"text":"有這種汙名所以呢我們的交通部就大幅的大幅的修正很多交通法規而且強化這個執法強度結果造成現在交通的執法細節非常的多很多的判定標準只有在行政函式或者是內部作業規定你看一問你也覺得OK連我們司長也覺得還OK喔我也覺得OK可是這樣已經違法了"},{"start":16051.912,"end":16075.121,"text":"所以我們現在缺乏就我們交通部為了這個洗刷這個汙名OK 我覺得利益良善可是我們並沒有真正的讓民眾清楚知道也沒有改變不管用路人或者是我們這個駕駛的行為模式甚至連法規都不清楚所以本席在這裡今天我也有提案"},{"start":16076.481,"end":16098.768,"text":"這個我們因為缺乏統一而且容易懂得公開的資訊的管道所以讓民眾不明瞭這個法律的細節所以常常誤觸法網然後就被開罰單那有的時候又很容易受到媒體片面的錯誤的資訊的一些誤導這個媒體包含自媒體各種現在非常的這個"},{"start":16100.509,"end":16128.086,"text":"多元所以本席希望交通部會同內政部警政署要針對我們執法標準透明化還有法規資訊的禁用性要提出改進方案可以嗎我請次長次長可以嗎因為這個我可不可以請那個內政部警政署沒有沒有沒有這跟交通部因為交通部法規然後加上警政署執法嘛所以是不是可以你們要整合出"},{"start":16129.578,"end":16151.206,"text":"凸解法規的資料庫還有及時的闢謠機制可以嗎這個可以應該要嘛對不對因為你現在很多民眾我隨便舉個例今天是因為時間的關係不然我舉出來我問大家我們現場的大家都不知道啊可是我們都要走在路上啊可以喔對好本席有這個提案再來就是很快的"},{"start":16152.639,"end":16179.812,"text":"我看到警政署的報告我們112年科技執法46萬件113年84萬件114年今年才到10月統計到10月已經144萬那所以這個報告好像蠻洋洋得意抓了蠻多的可是我們發現這個科技執法並沒有改變駕駛人的行為模式"},{"start":16180.745,"end":16201.3,"text":"好像變成我們開罰單開上癮了罰單滿天飛但是車禍照樣撞所以我們要請警政署的代表先上來一下我們是不是可以在一個月內交出一份科技執法的績效總體檢報告"},{"start":16203.322,"end":16221.398,"text":"科技執法績效總體檢報告而且本席要看到兩個欄位的對照該年度入口比如說我們有十大二十大取締這個重大入口的年度取締的件數跟該入口年度事故的下降率"},{"start":16221.858,"end":16234.683,"text":"我們要看出你一直取締你看這個每年飆升了三倍兩年飆升三倍你是抓很多沒錯可是我們想知道你這種事故率有沒有下降"},{"start":16235.891,"end":16253.134,"text":"有沒有真正因為我相信大家都認同次長一定認同我們警政署也認同我們交通的執法交通的處罰是為了交通安全不是為處罰而處罰更不是為了開罰單對不對所以我們要看成效可以提供嗎"},{"start":16255.063,"end":16280.124,"text":"可以嗎 可以可以喔 OK那最後本席那警政署請回本席最後要跟次長次長這裡就是有關TPAS我很快的講一下TPAS是很好的讓我們國人通勤族很好的一個措施但是如果我新竹到台北為什麼沒有我新竹到台中也沒有"},{"start":16281.719,"end":16295.194,"text":"這個部分可不可以來改善 改進市長因為TPAS它主要是以一個通勤對 一個交通一個生活圈所以那個生活圈變成你在定義"},{"start":16296.4,"end":16325.238,"text":"你踢帕子這個部分跟你報告一下踢帕子大概現在有三種形式第一個部分大家常講的這個區域型的月票如果是區域型這個月票的話原則上像大家現在談的這個北北基桃市以生活圈或是中央投票那如果說這個新竹要拓展到這個北北基桃這個生活圈裡面的話那基本上就要有這幾個地方政府大家共同來商議因為這個切割到這個相關經費分擔的部分那"},{"start":16326.038,"end":16353.952,"text":"來 那我請教你技術上沒問題吧技術上沒問題這個東西就好像這個雙北跟桃園跟基隆就可以結成一個生活圈但是縣政府新竹縣政府也已經提出樂觀騎乘但是因為這個東西那新竹縣政府要跟這個如果要加入這個北北基桃這個生活圈的話他就必須要再跟這四個縣所以本席要講的是TPAS是我們交通部在全國弄的嘛對不對 設置的"},{"start":16354.432,"end":16365.551,"text":"那現在你全國你應該要讓民眾你竟然TPAS我有可能我新竹到台北新竹到台中我其實距離都一樣那我也有這樣的需求"},{"start":16367.399,"end":16388.178,"text":"這個T帕子應該要可以而且我相信也不只這樣也許中張頭雲嘉南他們也有所謂跨所謂的生活圈的部分所以這個部分交通部可不可以整體的來我們都會協助地方政府像剛剛講的這個蘭高坪然後這個中張頭然後北北基然後這個桃竹苗"},{"start":16392.102,"end":16408.507,"text":"大家都有個別的我現在就是新竹到台北新竹到台中如果說這個新竹縣政府有跟這個現行這個北北基島去談的話如果有提出計畫的話公共局會很樂意來做協助所以這個不是因為我們中央設置的不是中央來"},{"start":16409.887,"end":16428.724,"text":"因為跟生活圈的行程必須要地方有共識那如果說是屬於跨層級的部分如果是屬於跨層級的部分我現在就說你T-PASS你可不可以民眾有這樣的需求的你可不可以賣票給他嘛我現在就是要買新竹到台北的啊T-PASS你可以嗎"},{"start":16429.585,"end":16455.158,"text":"你說這個還有我新竹到台中的新竹到台北維尼講的意思是講說整個這個台北跟新竹有一個月票是不是對啊這個東西確實是要地方有共識啦這個跟我也報告一下地方可以啊地方有共識中央可以來主導嗎中央可不可以來主導之前生活圈的部分都是各地方先有共識然後中央來這個協助啦"},{"start":16457.239,"end":16475.851,"text":"這個有時候中央沒有辦法強迫地方去做整個啦地方有共識啦那你現在TPAS的主管單位你可不可以你就把現在有這樣的一個缺洞你們來把它補強嗎可以吧這還是要地方政府他剛剛講他有個共識提上來因為就簽到經費的一個分攤啦"},{"start":16480.834,"end":16508.895,"text":"所以你讓地方政府他自己可是因為跨縣市他的需求是什麼譬如說剛講北北基桃就這幾個他有認為他有推出這樣的一個月票的一個情況你現在講的北北基桃你是用生活圈我現在講的是我們的民眾他就是會有這個需求我舉新竹到台北新竹到台中是因為我接收到的反應很多那我也跟你講中南部一定也有"},{"start":16510.867,"end":16529.659,"text":"那你們身為TPAS的主管單位嘛所以你主管單位你現在有這樣的需求那這個好 縣政府行文給你們你們就會召開會議了是不是各位有沒有這個TPAS有三種型態如果是區域型的部分那原則上地方政府也要有共識那如果是程序型的部分的話"},{"start":16530.919,"end":16546.569,"text":"局裡面也提供兩種方式如果搭公路客運你這個每月搭11次或30次都有不同的折扣那最近12月1號才推出如果說你搭台北到這一個新竹到台北的國道客運你只要搭這個一個月搭兩次就有15%的回饋"},{"start":16547.97,"end":16575.098,"text":"那如果說這個搭這個一個月四次又有這個那我要月票呢月票你就縮成是生活圈月票的部分的話如果說是因為現在這個月票是針對長達族就是每天在用的部分啦如果說是剛剛委員講的部分是想說新竹跟台北結合起來他這樣一個月票到這個台北用可以搭捷運可以搭公車然後一樣想說月票這樣子的一個在一個定額裡面去"},{"start":16575.958,"end":16590.996,"text":"不限次數去使用的話這個東西就必須要地方政府大家那如果他要台北到新竹新竹到台北新竹或新竹到台中的就這樣子的通勤的這個月票你們可以嗎"},{"start":16592.918,"end":16619.591,"text":"委員這個可能要請新竹縣政府先定義清楚啦如果說是需要台鐵的通行月票台鐵本身各種運具裡面本身就有月票如果說是必須要跟在地的這些相關捷運系統我先建議一下好不好因為新竹我們徐新義委員為新竹的鄉親來發聲啦那我想這個是民意代表本來就是要為所有大新竹地區來努力那是不是先請交通部這邊也跟新竹縣政府了解一下說到底有多少的民眾"},{"start":16620.431,"end":16630.124,"text":"有新竹到台北的通勤需求因為這才是TPAS當初發出來的一個初衷嘛你是要解決每天的通勤需求嘛"},{"start":16632.426,"end":16657.959,"text":"徐新委員已經有提出這樣的一個陳情這也是接受到很多陳情之後的反應那是不是請公路局這邊來做了解那了解完之後也再跟徐新委員這邊來做報告那如果說這個需求真的到一定程度新竹縣政府也願意有部分的一個經費負擔該交通部這邊來召集會議等等的部分我想交通部也以中央主管機關的身份能夠來再適時的關心這樣可以嗎"},{"start":16660.3,"end":16675.39,"text":"謝謝主席我們最主要的目的是對我們主席所說的還有就是TPAS你應該要普及全台你不是只有生活圈啦我特別講TPAS想辦法能夠是全台適用謝謝來再來請林月琴委員質詢"},{"start":16693.827,"end":16716.462,"text":"主席麻煩交通部跟國土署來 是交通部 國土署國土署 國土署來次長午安 午安好那今天的議程規劃事實上是行人安全跟科技執法我有兩個問題要跟次長來做討論首先先請次長看一下這樣子的這張圖下一頁好"},{"start":16721.707,"end":16727.673,"text":"那我不知道市長看得懂嗎 這樣的道路標誌標線的畫色哪裡有問題看得出來嗎 剛剛委員講的是說他的標線 這樣的標誌標線哪邊有問題好"},{"start":16748.171,"end":16761.968,"text":"能看得出來嗎好那我們就再來看下一頁當時在那個道教條例主條審查的時候我就提出通學區的定義統一的附帶決議"},{"start":16763.73,"end":16790.838,"text":"請交通部務必於56條第6項修正後一個月內一個月內召集教育部跟內政部國土署跟地方政府針對通學區的劃設跟定義延伸統一的標準因為剛剛那是吉林國小那就是所謂的通學區了才能讓新修正的條文真正落實那至今怎麼到現在我不知道你們通學區的定義"},{"start":16792.202,"end":16813.343,"text":"已經出來了沒否則的話 通學環境周遭的入口的視距問題我們再回到前一頁再去看那張圖有沒有發現停在那邊孩子的身影就是會被遮住根本孩子就是沒有辦法被看到難怪我們兒少的交通史上事實上會是高尤其在穿越道路的時候為什麼"},{"start":16813.883,"end":16840.274,"text":"因為所以當時為什麼會有這樣的要求就是在學區範圍內不應該有讓地方政府自己決定說我要不要在這邊為了停車空間之後去劃設停車位置所以想問次長這部分處理了嗎因為我週一請同仁問你們部的聯絡人得到的確認後回覆是今天週四到現在還是沒有任何消息所以只能在這邊來問次長"},{"start":16849.562,"end":16864.456,"text":"市長我的質詢時間也很有限現在是不是可以給我答案事後再跟委員回報好不好事後再給我們回報那是什麼時候呢我們在一週內跟委員回報"},{"start":16866.568,"end":16892.712,"text":"各位下禮拜一跟我們這邊講因為很重視這個問題因為市長也看到了入口跟停車切齊的那個狀況底下物理視角非常大還是個子又非常的矮那駕駛人大家通常沒有辦法看到身形比較小的小孩所以確認這個定義之後邀請你們地方政府盤點清楚之後所要改善的數量這個可以做到嗎"},{"start":16894.315,"end":16918.388,"text":"可以啦 這個是可以的可以喔來 那再看齁我去年總質詢就提到倒入交通違規罰還收入分配及運用辦法的問題這幾天我相信次長也看到了大家對於科技執法的討論熱烈今天才會有這個議程的規劃當然設置與否是地方政府警政單位的權責跟交通部無關但這一辦法"},{"start":16920.209,"end":16935.415,"text":"這一步辦法的修正我認為交通部不能再當院大頭了一定要好好的調整清楚甚至整部的辦法都應該要重新檢討可是我要問市長這個辦法目前的修正進度是什麼"},{"start":16938.052,"end":16951.009,"text":"先跟委員報告因為這個辦法目前是卡在那個卡在哪裡因為去年我總質詢的時候就說藥修正你們也同意了可是到現在然後今年說五月那預計六月公告可是現在公告了嗎"},{"start":16952.211,"end":16966.585,"text":"目前還沒有因為就卡在那個財政紀律法的疑慮的部分我們還在跟後面還在跟我們對那次長什麼時候因為我說去年總諮詢的時候有同意要去處理"},{"start":16968.307,"end":16983.095,"text":"我跟委員報告目前我們會在第一個這個辦法還沒修正之前我們會先跟地方政府先溝通看協調把 給我時間因為我現在最關心的就是時間因為我說等了一年半所以我想知道時間"},{"start":16985.444,"end":17013.002,"text":"辦法的修正是至少你們接下來怎麼做否則本來預計事實上是回應我的時候6月要公告可是現在已經是12月初了又過了半年了部裡面現在預計一個月內會先開找地方政府先開會因為辦法的修正什麼時候找地方政府開會你們之前沒有開過嗎一年半的時間沒有開過嗎之前有開過會主要是討論那個那只開過一次嗎"},{"start":17015.746,"end":17022.499,"text":"為什麼到目前甚至六月公告的時候到現在 說要六月公告到現在也沒公告呢我們之前也有徵詢 用書面徵詢各單位意見"},{"start":17026.268,"end":17047.055,"text":"開會也有我現在問的就是時間可不可以告訴我時間我們在一個月內會再找地方政府先把後面那個罰款分配的一個比例先做調整那我也要請你們後宵處理因為等的時間夠長了那謝謝次長請回那接下來我們的國土署這邊"},{"start":17051.658,"end":17056.102,"text":"行人優先交通安全行動綱領112年就出爐了在工程"},{"start":17057.25,"end":17084.254,"text":"面向上定有幾個具體的改善目標跟數量113年行人條例通過實施後這些目標也都訂定每年的KPI值我這陣子 大家也跟業務單位有索取最新的改善統計數據我有注意到行人友善區的設置似乎進度落後了想問一下國土部署這邊現在全台大概有幾處已經核被建置了"},{"start":17085.249,"end":17111.277,"text":"現在大概有兩處還是三處總共今年我們目標是五處我們今年目標是五處大概都在台北市因為行人友善區事實上是定在行人安全條例的第五條然後是法定業務如果地方如果不願意配合的話認為中央應該思考是不是有任何的政治工具可以來要求或協助為什麼我們這樣提呢你看第五條"},{"start":17112.638,"end":17131.094,"text":"除了友善區以外還有人行道的分年分期的一個建設計畫安全設施的改善計畫那根據我收到的資料全台分別還有四個與兩個縣市事實上政府事實上是沒有核定跟完成的甚至有地方政府還沒有提送"},{"start":17132.397,"end":17146.782,"text":"就分年分期的有四個縣市事實上是沒有完成核定那行人設施跟改善計畫有兩個縣市事實上是還沒有做那我不知道國土組這邊有沒有去了解地方執行的障礙是什麼然後你們要如何排除"},{"start":17147.722,"end":17173.363,"text":"我們都有去含吹含吹這個縣市要來提報相關的我等於說不是含吹嗎他們一定有一些障礙因為我們過去在看學區改善的時候很常是地方有些的民意代表也好或者是林里長也好或居民就是反對的所以我不知道這時候我想有沒有引進民間團體的資源非常重要我相信國土署應該也很瞭解"},{"start":17173.863,"end":17192.003,"text":"因為像日本做法就是要地方的一個溝通所以過去的很多的經典案例包含私大的商圈跟安居街的爭議都是由來民間單位去跟業務單位一起通力合作去溝通那你有沒有去了解他們是有沒有這樣子的一個困難"},{"start":17194.168,"end":17208.757,"text":"困難是應該有啦但是就是我們還是會持續跟他們溝通我還是希望你們能夠去協助讓他們了解到怎麼去跟地方溝通來解決這問題否則的話這六個縣市目前至今都沒有去有進一步的計畫"},{"start":17209.622,"end":17237.696,"text":"好我們會回去 一樣是什麼時候因為我覺得我發現時間事實上對我們來講是蠻重要的就等的時間很長我們在今年年底以前就會到現在12月1號了12月4號那年底麻煩我們安排去跟他們溝通好謝謝好謝謝來再來請邱志偉邱志偉委員不在請林倩琦委員質詢"},{"start":17248.074,"end":17251.529,"text":"主席 教委我是不是先請次長來我次長請"},{"start":17255.919,"end":17276.946,"text":"好 次長好 今天時間已經很緊迫我先就一個小case來這邊跟您先做個反應那近期有民眾在小綠人號誌燈號閃爍時來起步穿越道路結果被罰員警依照道路交通管理處罰條例第78條 第一項第一款他認為行人不依標誌標線號誌之指示或警察的指揮結果就處罰清台幣500塊"},{"start":17279.227,"end":17285.671,"text":"那這個就產生一個問題你們的那個號誌的處理規則200道路交通標誌標線號誌設置規則207條規定行人行走時綠燈閃爍的時候代表這個綠燈時間不多所以行人要跨越道路"},{"start":17301.259,"end":17315.713,"text":"這個時候就不能再走那你們覺得這個部分對一般民眾來講直觀嗎那很多人直覺只要小綠燈亮著或他在閃爍都可以過馬路所以在倒數的時候大家是加速通過結果被罰這樣設計您覺得OK嗎"},{"start":17318.698,"end":17339.001,"text":"我想這是應該可能是宣導不足 剛剛提到 剛剛也有人提到這個問題其實我們不太鼓勵在那個行人穿越道那邊去做所謂的奔跑或是比較快速的通過 因為這樣其實蠻危險的我們希望你不要衝突那他剛剛提醒說已經剩下時間不多"},{"start":17340.322,"end":17363.441,"text":"我個人是認為應該要稍微注意一下是否有足夠的時間本席認為你們的這個設計應該多照顧多數人的一個直觀的反應因為你在閃的時候其實某種程度讓大家覺得那應該要趕快來通過結果這樣子被罰本席是認為很不合理那應該在你們的設計上要做一個處理所以本席這邊為這個小小市民來做一個請命"},{"start":17364.542,"end":17390.89,"text":"好不好那這個部分你們應該就設計跟直觀的層面不要讓大家產生一些模糊結果又依照法規給人家罰了那小市民的這個荷包可能沒辦法容許大家這樣子隨便依法然後就把有點像是嚴罰這樣子好不好好第二件事情本席想要請教一下次長我想也請幾位我想這個道安陸鎮道安司觀光署是不是一起上來"},{"start":17394.051,"end":17409.826,"text":"我們的代表陸正思是司長嗎吳司長還有道安想請教次長您知不知道什麼叫朝聖之路西班牙那個嘛那您知不知道什麼叫聖雅各路"},{"start":17412.345,"end":17431.965,"text":"那你要用功一點本席在去年第一個會期總質詢的時候就提出這個概念在一些委員會本席也一直提出這個概念如果你對朝聖之路的理解是這樣雖然它有一大段的定義是需要再被詮釋的但是你如果理解是這樣那聖雅各路就等於你所理解的朝聖之路"},{"start":17433.824,"end":17455.461,"text":"其實本席在講這個概念的時候已經講很多但最重要的提到了一個重要的重點就是整個環島路線的一個連續性跟安全性本席今天不要再跟你講這個宗教或者是性靈方面的這個問題但是最重要就是說那整個台灣本島的環島線是不是"},{"start":17456.061,"end":17477.892,"text":"有達到連續性跟安全性的一個標準這是第一個還是本席去年這個所謂台灣聖亞各路福爾摩沙縣的概念其實是針對台灣的徒步路網自行車路網的不連續那因為這種不連續而導致一些不安全其實本席這邊有提出一些建議也跟你們指出來"},{"start":17479.053,"end":17495.21,"text":"那麼第二個部分是很多本島的主要幹道對步行及自行車的友善性不足還有步行自行車本來是綠色運輸主要的核心但是許多路都非常具有高風險那它跟這個高風險的這個動力車"},{"start":17500.014,"end":17525.772,"text":"跟無動力車沒有有效的分離這個其實你們可不可以去看一下本席的質詢或者是有記錄下來這個東西本席這邊其實都講得很清楚甚至有一些地方沒有自行車道其實就是你們去年在六月份講得好像全國都把它連起來那事實上本席實地的走訪有些地方其實自行車是沒有辦法走的更遑論人走在上面是非常危險的"},{"start":17526.533,"end":17553.216,"text":"那如果你知道朝聖之路跟聖雅各路大家是怎麼走的你就會知道跟理解這個本席所談的困難是在哪裡所以其實這風險是很高那你們要談綠色運輸那如果安全跟風險的問題沒有辦法解決的話那你們能怎麼處理呢然後很重要的是你們從去年到今年也沒有跟本席說你們目前的做法是如何本席是從民間了解到你們在外島"},{"start":17553.837,"end":17581.048,"text":"有仿這樣子的概念在做但是本島本席所提出來的從這個概念上在安全性上來講的路線你們通通都沒有回應過所以截至目前為止本席不知道你們這個部分做到哪裡所以請教部長兩件事第一個針對台11線及穿越原住民的部落山海地區的省道及鄉道交通部你們是不是盤點人車共道的這個路徑然後針對其安全"},{"start":17581.708,"end":17599.629,"text":"優化做了改善 本期其實去年一直提還有邊坡上的某一些問題 第二你們竟然在2023年已經推動永續提升行人安全的計畫 明定中央跟地方合作來改善人行道步行跨域交通環境"},{"start":17600.169,"end":17611.236,"text":"那你們常常在回應的時候就說這個都要地方有共識像剛才本席聽到這個徐委員在質詢的時候地方有共識 地方有共識各位我們是中央耶你們什麼時候可以積極認識積極認識從中央來帶動地方然後給地方應有的支撐所以你們是不是把可以把部落或東海岸偏鄉的原住民"},{"start":17624.244,"end":17639.091,"text":"居民來納入你們計畫優先去考量人車分道行人自行道專用的通用的這個改善範圍在工程預算上讓規格來符合標準是不是可以簡單做一個回應"},{"start":17641.798,"end":17661.472,"text":"對其實觀光有很大的這個注意啦所以本席講的是一連串但是其實你們分段都沒有做好本席其實從去年到今年都沒有得到你們很系統性跟結構性的一些回應所以今天我只針對道路安全這個部分來講那是不是可以簡單做一個回應有沒有可能把它放置進去優先的一個考量"},{"start":17663.111,"end":17688.464,"text":"我先跟委員報告就是有關於這個台11線的部分那這個11線是因為部落很多那他就跟本席所講的聖雅各路這個概念是有連結的那請 因為目前花東的部分的話我們是有另外一個計畫是但是那個最主要是在台九花東景觀大道那所以針對台11線委員提的這個部分的話是不是容許我們一點時間跟部落做一個整體的這個盤點"},{"start":17689.745,"end":17710.423,"text":"是不是會後也跟本席這邊做一個補充台九台十一然後這中間聯絡的路網就是所謂你們在外島推的台版朝聖之路跟本席去年所講的福爾摩沙路線路網的概念麻煩你們在會後把相關資料讓本席知道而且來跟本席做一個溝通跟補充好嗎謝謝好 謝謝"},{"start":17714.651,"end":17733.5,"text":"來 官員請回好 再來請林德福委員 林德福委員 林德福委員不在好登記質詢委員均已發言完畢 作以下決定一 報告及宣達完畢二 委員黃婕 蔡其昌 林德福 邱志偉 徐欣盈所提書面質詢列入記錄 並且刊登公報"},{"start":17734.48,"end":17751.477,"text":"三委員於諮詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未及答覆部分請交通部盡速以書面答覆現在休息五分鐘休息以後再進行法案的逐條審查跟法案無關的機關代表可以先行離席我們現在休息"},{"start":18088.669,"end":18114.318,"text":"好交通委員會現在繼續開會大家辛苦了那本日會議法案逐條審查程序各案先一併宣讀條文如果有修正動議也一併宣布全部宣讀完後在逐案進行協商處理那我們在宣讀過程裡面大家上午一整天開會都非常辛苦都還沒有中午用餐所以我們也請列席的官員就是可以自由的用餐那我們現在請宣讀條文"},{"start":18116.656,"end":18135.22,"text":"宣讀委員邱若驊等16人委員黃建豪等17人分別擬具道路交通管理處罰條例第31條之1條文修正草案委員徐富奎等17人擬具道路交通管理處罰條例第79條條文修正草案委員柯志恩等16人擬具道路交通管理處罰條例第86條條文修正草案"},{"start":18135.64,"end":18152.55,"text":"委員黃建豪等十七人擬據道路交通管理處罰條例第九十條條文修正草案委員邱若驊等十六人提案第三十一條之一第二三項莫具修正處新台幣兩千元罰還暫定第六項第三項實施及宣導辦法由交通部會同衛生福利部定之"},{"start":18153.13,"end":18179.755,"text":"與同現行條文委員黃建豪等17人提案第31條之一第三項默劇修正處新台幣2000元罰還與同現行條文委員徐富奎等17人提案第79條修正行人維銷文消防車救護車警備車工程救險車毒性化學物質災害事故應變車之警號不利及逼讓者處新台幣三圈600元罰還委員柯志恩等16人提案第86條"},{"start":18181.215,"end":18189.912,"text":"修正第一項第六款行經設有學校醫院標誌之路段不減速慢行原第六款之第十款第一為第七款之第十一款雲童線型調溫"},{"start":18191.553,"end":18211.627,"text":"委員黃建豪等17人提案第90條第一項中斷於兩個月不得舉發但之後增訂有下列期刑之一則不在此限原條文單數一列為第一款增訂第二款汽機車駕駛人依第35條規定測試檢定案件期其日自測試檢定終結之日起算於同線型條文"},{"start":18214.881,"end":18235.897,"text":"委員邱若驊等20人擬拒大眾捷運法第11條條文修正草案委員蔡其昌等21人擬拒大眾捷運法部分條文修正草案委員李昆澤等20人擬拒大眾捷運法第39條第43條及第43條之一條文修正草案及委員蔡其昌等人所提修正動議委員邱若驊等"},{"start":18236.658,"end":18257.658,"text":"二十人提案第一項第十一條修正第一項第三款環境永續及淨零減碳目標與同線型條文委員李昆澤等二十人提案第三十九條修正第一項後段及異常事件增訂第二項至第六項地方主管機關得救大眾捷運系統營運機構依前項規定所提提"},{"start":18258.278,"end":18281.053,"text":"報告內容 要求大眾捷運信討營運機構負責人或相關主管說明大眾捷運信討營運機構應用行車事故及異常事件訂定應變計畫按應變計畫定期實施演練並作檢討及改善地方主管機關得就大眾捷運信討營運機構所訂應變計畫之內容及定期與不定期演練其行予以查核"},{"start":18282.301,"end":18306.643,"text":"如認為辦理不善因命期限期改善大眾捷運系統營運機構因與所在營運地區之地方政府間建立災害防救工作聯繫平台並定期召開災害防救業務聯繫會議大眾捷運系統營運機構辦理第一項重大行車事故通報時並因應運輸事故調查法同時向國家運輸安全調查委員會辦理通報與重現行條文"},{"start":18307.404,"end":18328.886,"text":"委員蔡祺昌等21人提案第39條增訂第二項大眾捷運信統營運機構及相關人員另因因運輸事故調查法配合國家運輸安全調查委員會辦理調查與通現行條文委員蔡祺昌等21人提案第41條增訂第二項大眾捷運信統採用完全獨立專用路權"},{"start":18329.666,"end":18335.172,"text":"且為無人駕駛系統者大眾捷運系統營運機構應設義務入侵軌道之預警及緊急應變設備或措施"},{"start":18339.966,"end":18366.422,"text":"原第二項第一違第三項與同現行條文委員蔡啟昌等21人提案第42條增訂第二項大眾捷運系統營運機構對從業人員應與緊急應變訓練使其確切瞭解並確實執行該標準作業程序規則與同現行條文委員李昆澤等20人提案第43條第一項第二具增訂及異常事件莫具增訂及改進措施被"},{"start":18367.102,"end":18391.955,"text":"被供地方主管機關查驗增進第二項至第四項大眾捷運系統營運機構應根據前一年度之行車事故及一場事件檢討結果於每年第一季結束以前向地方主管機關提出當年度安全管理報告其報告內容應包括下列事項一大眾捷運系統營運機構營運之目標及安全理念"},{"start":18393.072,"end":18419.09,"text":"二 安全管理之組織架構及實施方式三 為確保及提升營運安全所採取或理財省之措施四 行車事故及異常事件及檢討及預防措施五 其他與營運安全有關之重要事項大眾捷運系統營運機構救行營運列車之行車運轉列車監控及維修保養之紀錄應有效保存其保存之項目期限及管理事項"},{"start":18420.325,"end":18446.893,"text":"由地方主管機關定之大眾捷運信託營運機構及相關人員另應因運輸事故調查法配合國家運輸安全調查委員會辦理調查運動線型條文委員蔡錫昌等二十一人提案第四十三條增訂第二三項大眾捷運信託營運進購舊期營運列車之行車運轉列車監控及維修保養之紀錄應有效保存前銷應保存之項目期限"},{"start":18447.393,"end":18469.906,"text":"及管理事項由中央主管機關定之與同線性條文委員李坤澤等二十人提案新增第四十三條之一主管機關因就大眾捷運系統運轉中發生之行車事故及異常事件進行檢討非屬運輸事故調查法認定重大運輸事故之行車事故及異常事件地方主管機關任有必要時"},{"start":18470.97,"end":18483.902,"text":"病人有病要者得就其事實及原因進行調查主管機關對前兩項檢討或調查結果如任有因改進事項者因明大眾捷運系統營運機構限期改善並列管追蹤"},{"start":18485.174,"end":18511.648,"text":"其事項涉及違反本法規定者依法裁處其違反大眾捷運系統營運機構內部規定者得命大眾捷運系統營運機構對內部相關人員就責懲處或請他必要處置大眾捷運系統營運機構及其從業人員應配合地方主管機關檢討或調查需要提出說明相關記錄設施設備資料或物品不得規避妨礙或拒絕"},{"start":18512.668,"end":18540.229,"text":"委員蔡其昌等21人提案第45條之三施工管理後增訂捷運沿線施工安全作業標準與同現行條文委員蔡其昌等21人提案第51條修正第一項第7款違反第41條第一項及第三項規定或唯一第42條規定對行車人員或作業人員施以訓練或管理致發生行車事故者與同現行條文"},{"start":18541.997,"end":18567.208,"text":"委員蔡啟昌等所提修正動議第39條第一項中段修訂欲有重大行車事故應立即通報莫具增訂其屬一般行車事故及異常事件應因按院匯報增訂第二項之第六項大眾捷運系統營運機構應前項規定所提報告內容地方主管機關得要求其負責人或相關主管說明"},{"start":18568.288,"end":18593.741,"text":"大眾捷運信統營運機構因舊行車事故及異常事件訂定應變計劃及應變計劃定期實施演練並檢討改善大眾捷運信統營運機構所訂應變計劃之內容與定期及不定期演練情形地方主管機關得與查核認為管理不善因命期限期改善大眾捷運信統營運機構因與所在營運地區之地方政府間建立災害防救工作聯席平台"},{"start":18594.201,"end":18617.536,"text":"定期召开灾害防救业务联系会议大众捷运系统营运机构办理第一项中大行车事故通报时并因应运输事故调查法项国家运输安全调查委员会通报于同委员在其中等21人提案第43条大众捷运系统营运机构对行车事故及异常事件因搜集资料调查研究分析原因"},{"start":18620.227,"end":18641.278,"text":"並採取預防及改進措施地方主管機關得予查驗大眾捷運系統營運機構應根據前一年度之行車事故及異常事件檢討結果於每年第一季結束前向地方主管機關提出當年度安全管理報告其報告內容應包括下列事項一大眾捷運系統營運機構營運之安全理念及目標"},{"start":18641.926,"end":18667.946,"text":"安全二 安全管理之組織架構及實施方式三 為確保及提升營運安全所採取或擬採取之措施四 行車事故或異常事件之檢討及預防措施五 其他與營運安全有關之重要事項大眾捷運系統營運機構就其營運列車之行車運轉列車監控及維修保養之紀錄應預保存其保存之項目期限及管理事項由中央主管定之"},{"start":18669.315,"end":18692.35,"text":"大眾監獄信統營運機構及相關人員另一運輸事故調查法配合國家運輸安全調查委員會辦理調查新增第43條之一 第二項手續認定修正為所定第三項 第二具如任為如任為修正為任有 如任有修正為任有 餘同委員李昆澤等20人提案"},{"start":18694.502,"end":18719.601,"text":"第45條之三 安全作業標準修正為安全管制與同委員蔡啟昌等21人提案第51條增訂第一項第二款中斷第39條第4項或第43條之一第三項規定修正第一項第三款違反第35條第一項或第39條第一項規定應報告而未報告修正第一項第7款中斷從業人員"},{"start":18720.982,"end":18750.08,"text":"修正第一項第八款違反第43條第一項第二項或第三項規定經主管機關通知改正或未改正修正第一項第九款大眾捷運系統營運機構及其從業人員規避妨礙或拒絕第43條之一第四項鎖定應配合業務原條文第八款第九款第一為第十款第十一款第二項手續修正有前項各款行刑至依今中段修正案次處罰於同委員蔡啟昌等21人提案"},{"start":18751.806,"end":18778.685,"text":"委員盧憲義等18人擬拒鐵路法第26條及第35條條文修正草案 委員陳俊宇等24人擬拒鐵路法第40條條文修正草案 臺灣民眾黨黨團擬拒鐵路法第56條至4 67條至3及68條至4條文修正草案 委員李昆澤等25人擬拒鐵路法第56條至5條文修正草案委員廖憲祥等18人 委員廖憲祥等25人分別擬拒鐵路法第57條條文修正草案"},{"start":18779.125,"end":18796.128,"text":"委員張宏祿等18人擬拒鐵路法第65條條文修正草案委員洪孟凱等19人擬拒鐵路法第68條之4及第72條條文修正草案委員邱振軍等23人擬拒鐵路法增訂第68條之4條文修正草案及洪孟委員洪孟凱委員張宏祿等所提修正動議"},{"start":18797.847,"end":18816.481,"text":"委員盧先一等18人你提案第26條增進第4項旅客為年滿55歲之原住民者應享有優待車票與同線型條文委員盧先一等18人提案第35條增進第2項旅客為年滿55歲之原住民者應享有優待車票與同線型條文"},{"start":18817.242,"end":18834.115,"text":"委員陳俊穎等二十四人提案第四十條第一項中段修正為隨時將經過請行報請查核並啟動旅客接駁應變計畫與同線型條文台灣民眾黨黨團提案第五十六條之四第一項前段增訂應採取必要措施確保從業人員執行鐵路業務實質安全並與同線型條文"},{"start":18837.418,"end":18857.29,"text":"委員李昆澤等25人提案第56條之五第二項手續增訂建置營運安全管理系統並增訂第五款營運安全管理系統作業規範由交通部定制與同線型調溫委員廖憲祥等25人提案第57條增訂第二項行人車輛不得侵入鐵路路線及場站區內"},{"start":18859.588,"end":18873.945,"text":"非公共通行之處所 但鐵路機構為民眾通行數散人潮 發展觀光緊急救難或其他特殊需求 另行公告開放之範圍不再實現 增訂第五項 第二項單數規定之另行公告開放範圍 鐵路機關應與"},{"start":18876.227,"end":18899.437,"text":"公告前檢軍開放原因開放範圍開放時段及相關配套管理措施報經交通部從議後 使得為之變更是一統與同現行條文委員廖先生等十八人提案第五十七條修正第三項第四項鐵路路線橋樑為當地居民通行之必經通路且無公有道路替代者不受前項限制由主管機關另訂辦法因鐵路路線"},{"start":18900.597,"end":18923.919,"text":"設置導致計程道路無法通行主管機關因滿足跨越鐵路路線制救災通行需求原第三項第四項第五以為第五項第六項與同線性條文委員張宏錄等十八人提案第六十五條第一項中斷修正為十倍至五十倍增訂第三項至第五項主管機關未調查或取締前兩項違規事項得洽請警察機關派員協助主管機關對於"},{"start":18926.656,"end":18945.881,"text":"檢舉查獲第一項第二項規定之行為處應對檢舉人身份資料嚴守祕密外並得卓於獎勵對於檢舉人身份資料之保密與訴訟程序一同前項主管機關受理檢舉案件之管轄處理期間保密檢舉人獎勵及其他應遵循事項之辦法由中央主管機關定制與同線性條文"},{"start":18946.821,"end":18972.477,"text":"台湾民众党党团提案新增第67条之三民营或国营铁路机构违反第56条之4第一项或第64条准用第56条之4第一项规定未采取必要措施确保从业人员执行铁路业务实质安全或为有效训练及管理从业人员时期具备铁路专业作业安全维安应变及卫生防疫辅助技能并确切了解及严格遵守铁路法令者"},{"start":18973.097,"end":19001.97,"text":"處新台幣三萬元以上三十萬元以下之罰還有前項行刑者應命期限其改善屆期未改善者案次連續處罰台灣民眾黨黨團提案新增第六十八條之四以強暴脅迫恐嚇或其他非法治方法妨礙鐵路從業人員執行鐵路業務處三年以下有期徒刑的並可新台幣三十萬元以下罰金犯前項之罪因而致鐵路從業人員與死者處無期徒刑或七年以上有期徒刑至重傷則處三年以上"},{"start":19002.69,"end":19031.63,"text":"10年以下有歧途刑委员侯孟凯等19人提案新增第68条之4以强暴、胁迫、恐吓或其他非法之方法妨碍铁路从业人员执行职务者处1年以上5年以下有歧途刑的并科新台币1000万元以下罚金犯前项之罪因而致铁路从业人员于死者处无歧途刑或7年以上有歧途刑致重伤者处5年以上10年以下有歧途刑有前项情形者铁路从业人员的拒绝运送"},{"start":19032.51,"end":19055.761,"text":"委員邱正軍等23人提案新增第68條之4以強暴脅迫恐嚇或其他非法之方法妨礙鐵路從業人員執行職務者處6個月以上3年以下有企圖行得併科新台幣50萬元以下罰金犯潛向之罪傷害鐵路人員之身體或健康者處1年以上5年以下有企圖行拘役或100萬元以下罰金因而致人於死者處"},{"start":19056.761,"end":19063.889,"text":"無期徒刑或七年以上有期徒刑至重傷者除五年以上有期徒刑犯第一項之罪者鐵路從業人員得拒絕運送"},{"start":19065.731,"end":19093.948,"text":"委員侯孟楷等19人提案第72條增訂第一項後段現行犯者有警察機關排除或制止之如涉及刑事責任則應移送司法機關偵辦與同現行條文委員侯孟楷等所提修正動議第新增第68條之四第一項中段修正或因而傷害鐵路從業人員之身體或健康者處6個月以上5年以下有期徒行得並科新台幣3萬元以上30萬元以下罰金"},{"start":19094.628,"end":19109.386,"text":"第三項手續修正之餘者與同委員洪孟凱等19人提案第72條週段修正警察機關或鐵路機構街道通報應急派員赴現場末段收據應以現行犯處置並移送司馬機關偵辦與同委員洪孟凱等19人提案"},{"start":19114.383,"end":19126.956,"text":"委員張宏祿等提案修正第第六十五條第一項中斷修正其運駕刪除原提案第三四五項 於同委員張宏祿等十八人提案宣讀完畢"},{"start":19132.435,"end":19145.222,"text":"好現在宣讀條文已經宣讀完畢那就就現在就各案彙整的條文對照表逐案進行協商處理首先我們處理道路交通管理處罰條例"},{"start":19166.735,"end":19190.563,"text":"好 到交条例那我们请我们各委员行政部门大家看一下那就是从31条之一开始那我先征求一下如果在场提案委员或是联署委员没有到的话这案我们可能就先保留好不好那这样可能会比较加速这个进行的一个速度那也请各党团的助理都"},{"start":19192.383,"end":19205.397,"text":"協助來告知一下我想提案委員跟連署委員我們一定要尊重那還有本委會委員我們一定尊重所以31條之1那個洛華委員您提案有沒有要先補充"},{"start":19207.349,"end":19224.621,"text":"好 謝謝昭緯 那補充說明那上一次在委員會有向交通部提出嘛那次長當時有說到那114年每個月平均的件數是5700件那我們這樣子一年看下來是68000件所以114年那我們還是推我們推測這個數量還是高於113年嘛"},{"start":19233.507,"end":19258.492,"text":"因為當時次長是有說數量有下降所以就是是否就是保留嘛但我們也要看到也要看到因為過去可以取締民眾可以檢舉所以數量非常的高現在已經民眾沒有辦法再進行檢舉了所以這個數量是下降的有鑑於這個原因那我本席還是主張我會朝這個方向去修訂好 謝謝"},{"start":19262.447,"end":19289.173,"text":"來 行政部門說明一下好不好三一條之一其實是增加罰則嘛 對不對罰緩啦 提高罰緩 是 來這邊 部裡面這邊是建議還是先維持現在的額度那透過持續的加強宣導跟執法來讓民眾慢慢去知道這樣的一個規定那當然最後是尊重委員會最後的一個審查結果"},{"start":19290.713,"end":19317.299,"text":"然後第四針對另外針對第四項的部分要會同衛福部要來訂定這個實施宣導辦法的部分我們是建議免於增訂因為這個部分是建議用附帶決議的部分來請相關主管機關來加強我們的宣導跟執法以上來衛福部是不是衛福部來說明一下"},{"start":19321.656,"end":19335.415,"text":"麦克风开一下 打开有吗好 没事 等一下麦克风我们就不要关好 谢谢"},{"start":19336.615,"end":19360.741,"text":"不好意思 有關委員所提的第五項的部分就是要會同衛福部來訂資的這個部分在這邊說明一下因為有關騎乘機車或者是行駛汽車的時候的安全管理其實是涉及交通部所以我們在這邊建議就是這個部分就是由交通部來本權者辦理"},{"start":19361.881,"end":19371.738,"text":"因為我們看到說是上面其實在第四項的部分也是由交通部去訂製所以這個部分我們建議就是由交通部來本權者來訂製 謝謝"},{"start":19375.202,"end":19401.54,"text":"好 因為現在落毫委員的版本它是手機車騎士如果說是用這個手提裝置等於是講行動電話啦那就是原本的這個罰環那提高要變2000元那還有就是主要有幾位委員的這個版本都是香煙就說現行如果說汽機車在吸食香煙行車的時候吸食香煙是處罰600元那要提高到2000元"},{"start":19402.501,"end":19418.413,"text":"那但是我記得我們交通相關法規裡面其實有1200、1800的這樣的一個罰還額度嘛那如果說不要來沒關係你找個位置坐吧還是有沒有拉個椅子衛福部拉個椅子好來"},{"start":19424.308,"end":19447.717,"text":"我們安排一下好不好好那我想如果說要一次提高到2000那有沒有可能有這個罰款的一個建議還是說這個怎麼樣來做一個match我們委員這邊有沒有其他的想法不然這樣子比較難再進一步"},{"start":19448.894,"end":19456.294,"text":"我想請市長說明這原本這罰款是600元嘛可以說明現在還有哪一些罰款也是600元嗎"},{"start":19460.051,"end":19486.829,"text":"委員 這個部分我就來做一個說明好 請說在處罰條例裡面大概最低的就是300 300 600 900然後接下來大概有1500然後900之後1200 1500 1800大概是這樣子的一個級距那單項罰款的部分大概就是有1000 3000大概這樣子的部分那如果說針對邱委員所提到的這個部分我是是不是做這樣子的建議"},{"start":19487.889,"end":19508.435,"text":"就是說因為這個現行騎機車這個手持行動裝置的部分現行是1000元那現在提高到2000因為它原來基地比較低將到2000是這個雙倍那我是比較建議如果說可考量的去的一個部分的話大概就是1200或者是1500這樣子的一個區間"},{"start":19509.835,"end":19530.955,"text":"那這個汽車這個就是說吸食香煙這些相關等等的部分的話因為如果說在不該的場所去吸煙的話是另外有一個法令的一個適用那這邊在道路上面的一個部分的話他後面有一個這個處罰的要件是自由影響他人的這一"},{"start":19531.836,"end":19550.718,"text":"這個安全那我是比較建議說這邊如果說這一個就是這一個600的話可能比較適當的部分可能是到第二個第三個級距大概是這個900那第三項就是說這個針對這個汽車駕駛人這個手持香煙吸食這些相關部分"},{"start":19551.418,"end":19577.154,"text":"這個部分相對行為是比較單純它不像這個前面就是說這個手持手機因為手機手機還有包括這個發簡訊行動這些相關的部分它行為比較 太陽比較複雜所以必須要有宣導實施辦法那針對這個手持相應的部分它大概就是一個很簡單手持相應的這個部分應該是沒有必要增訂第四項所以還要去訂一個宣導實施辦法所以終結以上的一個說明的話"},{"start":19579.236,"end":19593.451,"text":"這邊是建議就是說前面這個1000元是不是提高1200或1500可以做考量那後面那個600元的部分是不是提高到這一個900元然後第四項可以不用這個增訂以上大概做一個建議"},{"start":19596.226,"end":19620.052,"text":"好 黃建豪委員剛進來我們在討論之前因為現在這兩個樣態是現在已經有罰緩可能我們提案委員會覺得是說現在罰緩不足而造成說還是有這樣的一個違法狀況但可能 來 你們看一下因為現在就變成是說都是我們邱陸華委員跟黃建豪委員的版本只是就是罰緩的額度不同來"},{"start":19623.667,"end":19646.929,"text":"好謝謝趙偉我想針對這個抽菸的部分就是我今天上午在這個所謂提案說明的時候有提到一件事情因為這個31條之一主要規範的目標當然就是說因為你騎車開車的時候分心的狀況所以包含前面兩個兩款前面兩項是針對所謂的手機的部分那第三項的部分是針對所謂抽菸的部分"},{"start":19648.47,"end":19666.261,"text":"如果手持開車的時候拿手機跟騎車的時候拿手機會分心的話我想開車的時候抽煙跟騎車的時候抽煙同樣的它也會有分心的問題那剛剛提到說所謂的在不適當場所抽煙會有另外的法規處理這個沒問題這個我知道就是說它是指控無法或其他的"},{"start":19666.781,"end":19695.871,"text":"部分他會檢舉但我們這樣講到說是因為這個條文其實很明確是因為他手持香煙吸食點燃香煙自有影響他人行車安全的行為的時候所以才要去裁罰並不是因為他抽煙是罰他而是因為他抽煙導致他影響了這個行車安全才要罰他所以他的脈絡跟前面兩件事情是一致的就他同意他不是因為我不是抽煙罰你我是因為你抽煙的過程或是你這個分心的狀態所以我才要罰你"},{"start":19696.531,"end":19712.561,"text":"那我是覺得說前面手持手機罰到一千兩千那抽菸降到六百這件事情我覺得在數字比例上面我覺得不太一致啦所以就應該把這個罰金把他一致化那另外上午我也提到一件事情就是現在的抽菸並不是單純的"},{"start":19715.323,"end":19729.551,"text":"傳統的止煙而已現在煙有很多種包含說電子煙包含說加熱煙電子煙現在是違法違法我當然知道違法就是他們很多人在充市面上是流通的客觀事實是如此就是說他在"},{"start":19730.812,"end":19747.524,"text":"加熱煙的樣態或說這個電子煙樣態跟傳統的止煙也都不一樣那他們還是會有很多的操作的過程就是說所以我覺得這部分我們希望說在針對影響他人行傷安全的部分的罰款不能只有600元這是我的見解 以上 謝謝來 次長"},{"start":19749.665,"end":19774.715,"text":"我這樣剛聽下我是不是可以建議 剛講的第二項剛講機車用手機的部分我們建議是不是調尾1200那另外那個抽菸致影響安全的部分我們建議把它提高到1200是不是可以這樣子 那另外那個剛講宣導辦法剛講用附帶解決方式來處理就不要定定這是建議請委員是不是可以同意"},{"start":19777.714,"end":19792.44,"text":"好那這樣子就依照剛剛我們次長就是就31條之一這個黃建豪委員跟周祿豪委員的這個提案那就修正為剛剛我們次長這邊所建議的這個發還額度來修正通過"},{"start":19799.46,"end":19808.071,"text":"是來好就照剛剛的決議我只是補充一下就是我覺得法它有一個邏輯性就是"},{"start":19810,"end":19827.038,"text":"都是為了行車安全我們法令有很明確的寫可能使用行動電話或者怎樣或者抽菸類似的行為都是因為他的手沒有在方向盤上面然後再做其他行為如果不在上面的其他行為比如說我們開車就會吃零食對不對"},{"start":19830.621,"end":19848.52,"text":"其實我覺得法要有一致性的邏輯啦在未來做調整的時候應該是有一致性的邏輯而你去針對個別的樣態你的樣態會有點舉例不完會有點舉例不完那包括一樣都是行車中譬如說我們在停紅燈其實我們也是在行車中嘛我們也不可以用手機但是跟在"},{"start":19849.341,"end":19866.084,"text":"有速度的行駛的時候使用手機它其實微傾性是不一樣的所以我們在法環上面可能也會可以訂定不一樣的級距我是覺得後續在下一次因為我自己沒提版本可能下一次有在要調整道教條例的時候我覺得這部分這兩點都可以給交通部參考謝謝"},{"start":19870.204,"end":19895.84,"text":"確實啦 如果剛剛的現場委員講法如果我們駕駛我們希望是駕駛是完全都是合乎行車作業要點而不是說分心去做其他事啦所以手機跟這個香菸比較是大眾常見的可矩陣的一個樣態但是還有其他一個樣態那這個部分就請我們交通部這邊帶回去研究好不好那我們剛剛看一下剛剛的這個條文31條之一就說"},{"start":19901.588,"end":19922.541,"text":"這樣子現行法規的部分那我們現在把這個修正後的版本用紅字把給列出來那我們請在場委員這邊看一下我就說來再往上一點沒關係機車駕駛人行駛道路以手持方式行使用行動電話等等等等來那往下"},{"start":19924.571,"end":19945.911,"text":"好那就是儲新台幣1200元罰還那另外汽機車駕駛人行駛道路手持香煙吸食點燃香煙等等然後也是儲新台幣1200元罰還請教各位委員有沒有意見好如果沒有意見的話那我們就修正通過"},{"start":19948.001,"end":19968.07,"text":"那附帶決議等一下請我們行政部門把那個版本寫出來那也給在場委員做過目好不好好那再來79條徐富奎委員提案是不是只有徐富奎委員一位那徐富奎委員或是他的連署委員有沒有需要說明"},{"start":19970.711,"end":19994.696,"text":"好那沒有的話說明一下行政部門大概跟那個徐委員有溝通過他大概就同意我們的意見好那我們就參照不予修正保不予修正維持現行條文再來86條柯志恩委員等提案那其中"},{"start":19996.894,"end":20000.915,"text":"柯政委員或是那個我們連署委員有沒有意見"},{"start":20004.176,"end":20029.4,"text":"那本席特別提到啦這個學校跟醫院的一個部分那你如果說沒有減數的話其實你就應該要假設如果說而造成有相關的一個事故包括受傷死亡的部分那其實這也跟我們今年發生的這一個悲痛的一個案件那個學校三峽這邊的一個這個案件一樣所以我想"},{"start":20030.621,"end":20047.641,"text":"該經過學校醫院等標示的路段因為學校跟醫院就是年長者跟年幼者以及重傷者行動不便者會比較多所以不減速慢行的話得加重期刑二分之一那請教行政部門可以接受嗎"},{"start":20050.049,"end":20065.292,"text":"好那這樣的話我們就照柯政委員等16人的提案通過86條 照柯政委員等16人的版本通過第90條黃建豪委員在現場 所以黃委員要不要說明一下"},{"start":20068.908,"end":20078.254,"text":"好謝謝主席那我本席提的這90條其實就針對獨駕的事實狀態就是之前有提到一件事情就算獨駕是規範在第35條但是因為那個採樣的時間的熱時間差常常實務上超過兩個月所以我認為說在獨駕這個部分的"},{"start":20087.719,"end":20107.845,"text":"的這個時間表他應該是以所謂的檢驗結果出來之日才開始起算那當然中間過程裡面有些文上修正我想這個依據這兩天的溝通我想可以依照這個交通物體的這個文字因為他文字其實跟我的文字精神上是一樣只是做些調整而已所以我覺得是應該是依照"},{"start":20110.066,"end":20133.167,"text":"這個測試檢定案件的截止日之後來起算所謂的兩個月我覺得是比較合理的狀態以上說明謝謝好就是勿往勿重啦對不對來那行政部門是不是有跟委員溝通之後的再修正的版本有文字調整對這個部分有跟委員溝通而且提出我們的修正的一個文字的版本好那是不是就在電腦上面秀出來這個"},{"start":20137.496,"end":20157.671,"text":"好來那我們是不是可以請委員們來看一下電腦上面就說建議依黃建豪委員的提案再修正如下首先有下列情形其起算日或舉發期限依各款規定辦理包括依車輛駕駛人經已有"},{"start":20161.153,"end":20178.839,"text":"受委託醫療或檢驗機構對其一第35條第一項第二款第73條第二項測試檢驗者其期間自檢驗報告結果通知警察機關之日起算那35條跟73條就是這所謂的讀酒價是不是"},{"start":20183.164,"end":20210.26,"text":"獨駕OK好那所以說就跟剛剛黃建豪委員所講的那個核心精神是一樣就是說檢驗報告結果通知警察機關之日起算那再來第二汽車造勢致人受傷或死亡案件因造勢責任不明已送鑑定者其期間至檢定終結之日起算未送檢定而須分析研判者欲三個月不得舉發"},{"start":20213.103,"end":20241.934,"text":"好委員跟這個行政部門都可以接受那我們就依黃建豪委員等17人的提案文字修正後通過附帶決議有出來了嗎好那我們是不是請示大家好來我們宣讀一下附帶決議"},{"start":20243.834,"end":20259.313,"text":"附帶決議 駕駛人騎乘機車或行駛汽車時抽煙 煙霧與煙灰隨風四散長字影響後方用路人視線與呼吸 增加交通事故風險更可能衍生水手"},{"start":20260.995,"end":20277.067,"text":"丟棄菸地資環境污染及二手菸危害情形為目前執法強度並無法產生足夠之嚇阻效果原請交通部內政部警政署衛生福利部及環境部應治本權則持續加強宣導及執法令"},{"start":20280.99,"end":20286.192,"text":"好 請問委員可以接受嗎好 謝謝那這樣子我們就再進行到第二個附帶決議通過好那我們就進行大眾結運法"},{"start":20306.116,"end":20331.193,"text":"來大眾捷運法第1第11條邱若驊委員等人提案那邱委員有沒有要補充好其實非常好就是環境永續跟淨零減碳的目標把它放進來了這也是我們2050淨零碳排的一個方向那尤其大眾運輸大眾捷運系統都應該要做考慮那行政部門是不是可以接受"},{"start":20331.904,"end":20339.637,"text":"八位我們接受 按照委員提案通過那就依照邱若驊委員等提案通過在第39條"},{"start":20343.337,"end":20370.933,"text":"來 我們現場委員有李昆哲委員 請發言好 第39條 現行的第39條僅僅是概述這種事故的通報原則那其實它並不能反映不同的捷運系統在相關的設計 入網的特性還有風險的形態上面的差異那這一次修法主要是要增進授權"},{"start":20371.974,"end":20399.927,"text":"使地方主管機關依照他們轄管的這個系統的運作風險要求營運機構制定而且要定期檢討行車事故以及異常事件的應變計畫使應變計畫能被被動的反應轉為主動的一個準備來補強目前事前準備不足的制度缺口以上"},{"start":20402.366,"end":20415.894,"text":"好還有沒有加委員有意見好那我們看到蔡其昌委員等人有一個修正動議那我們也一併併入來討論那我們請行政部門這邊來回覆"},{"start":20417.879,"end":20443.064,"text":"包委員我想這條的修正草案包括崑哲委員跟蔡吉章委員的草案我們都原則表示支持但是有關李崑哲委員的部分我們在各項有做一些文字的調整蔡吉章委員今天早上所送出來的臨時的修正動議文字上我們原則上都接受其中有關有一項就是中央跟地方的這個"},{"start":20447.951,"end":20472.425,"text":"對不起那是43條39條沒有意見好那39條我這邊看到的是我們現在行政部門是不是有建議的一個文字好那昆哲委員是不是看一下因為核心精神有那個交通部有來跟我做相關的對話因為在上午接受他們的文字修正"},{"start":20472.932,"end":20494.265,"text":"好那這樣子39條是不是才是要以李昆哲委員跟蔡啟昌委員兩委員的版本修正後通過好那那個文字的部分有需要現在秀在那個我們的這個螢幕上有需要念一遍嗎"},{"start":20496.545,"end":20501.474,"text":"好那這樣子大家請大家過目好不好因為這個可能已經都跟我們提案委員這邊已經都說明過已經有達成共識嘛"},{"start":20522.966,"end":20531.18,"text":"那就39條就按李昆哲委員以及蔡吉昌委員的提案那修正後通過"},{"start":20534.42,"end":20555.07,"text":"好第41條41條蔡啟昌委員有修正的版本嗎包委員沒有沒有好那我們行政部門的意見如何沒有意見是可以接受是不是按委員提案版本建議通過好那我們在場委員有沒有其他意見"},{"start":20556.371,"end":20566.096,"text":"好 那如果沒有的話那就是按蔡其昌委員這邊的這個提案來通過好 42條"},{"start":20568.792,"end":20597.046,"text":"一樣是蔡其昌委員這邊來請教行政部門有沒有相關意見報委沒有意見建議按照委員提案版本通過好就大眾運輸大眾捷運系統營運要給從業人員緊急應變訓練那並且確實了解標準作業流程我想這非常重要把文字給放入讓這個大眾運輸法大眾捷運法更加嚴謹完整那我們這個42條就依蔡其昌委員等人提案通過"},{"start":20603.177,"end":20615.728,"text":"43條有李昆哲委員來請好 謝謝昭偉第43條主要是事故調查還有後續的改善其實就是安全管理的一個核心但是現行的第43條的規範過於概括"},{"start":20618.951,"end":20635.776,"text":"不足以確保營運機構落實檢討跟改善所以我這一次是修正加原條文調整到第一下並且要甄列營運機構必須提交年度安全管理報告保存運轉及保養紀錄等義務"},{"start":20637.657,"end":20659.234,"text":"使安全管理具有可集合與透明性同時也要明確要求營運機構及其人員配合國家運輸安全委員會的調查然後以及運輸事故調查法的整合確保重大事故的一個完整性跟他的獨立性以上"},{"start":20660.856,"end":20688.167,"text":"好 來 我們請教行政部門這邊的建議包委員 原則支持但是有關我們困澤委員的版本我們建議略做文字的修正那蔡吉章委員的版本因為早上提出來的臨時動議跟布版的文字是一致的那其中有關第三項就是這個紀錄英語保存的部分其保存的項目期限管理事項交通部的建議版本是由地方主管機關訂製"},{"start":20689.769,"end":20694.71,"text":"委員的版本是由中央主管機關訂製我想我們尊重委員會的審查結果"},{"start":20697.307,"end":20722.956,"text":"所以你现在我看到我们部这边的修正建议意见是由地方主管机关定制是的第三项那但是你说测试舱委员的版本是要中央主管定制好那我们委员这边有没有相关的意见我看还是要由中央来定制好不好有没有问题"},{"start":20724.421,"end":20739.617,"text":"因為這是一個法制作業因為基本上每一個地方的捷運系統目前的直接的監理權責是在地方政府中央當然就法規的部分如果這樣定起來的話就每一個地方如果有他的差異性的話就我們來處理"},{"start":20741.338,"end":20758.266,"text":"會相對來講比較複雜一點所以召委剛才就請你表示意見然後你們又說不管是委員的提案中央或地方你們都遵照委員會的一個決議然後我就故意點你一下你看你現在又講說這個我們尊重我們尊重委員會的決議"},{"start":20760.027,"end":20779.714,"text":"這一個大眾捷運系統營運機構對列車行車運轉監控保養維修其實各地方現在的捷運都是是不是捷運公司他有公司有捷運局嗎但是營運的是捷運公司交通局對不對"},{"start":20782.014,"end":20807.263,"text":"對 所以說如果說你地方政府定制的話其實也是交通局定對 但是現在我們各縣市的捷運其實有捷運 有輕軌等等也都適用這個大眾捷運法嘛對 所以這樣的話本席還是建議是先由中央主管機關定制那地方政府當然如果說出來有它有因地制宜還是有什麼特殊的部分它可能它可以再做一些附加的一些狀況"},{"start":20808.783,"end":20822.049,"text":"但是overall的部分是不是中央主管機關定制來確保我們全台的大眾捷運系統有一個妥善的一個標準好不好大家有沒有意見"},{"start":20825.97,"end":20854.985,"text":"好那這樣子我們就第43條就依照部的這一個在所提出來的文字那其中在這個第三項裡面就說大眾捷運系統營運機構就其營運列車之行車運轉列車監控及維修保養之紀錄應與保存其保存之項目期限及管理事項由中央主管機關定之"},{"start":20856.906,"end":20880.397,"text":"那其餘文字就依照交通部今天所提出來的一個文字做修正好43條如果沒有意見的話那就依照我們李昆哲跟蔡其昌委員的版本那修正文字修正後通過在43條之一"},{"start":20883.022,"end":20910.874,"text":"來 李昆哲委員好 謝謝趙偉43條之一主要是我認為現行的法律對於一般的行車事故與異常事件其實都是缺乏明確的調查還有監理的機制所以造成地方主管機關在面對非重大事故時執法的工具不足這一次新增第43條之一明定地方主管機關"},{"start":20912.014,"end":20926.819,"text":"得救非屬運輸事故調查法所成重大事故之事件進行檢討與調查並且依照結果要求營運機構限期改善依法裁處或救者處置營運機構及其從業人員應該要配合調查"},{"start":20930.68,"end":20955.326,"text":"那這個徵修我認為是讓地方的監理不再停留在於形式性的一個檢查而是能夠真正落實風險導向的一個監理這是修法的主要目的好 來自深條之一 請行政部門員表示意見我們感謝委員提案 這個我們表示支持那兩個地方略做文字的修正"},{"start":20960.427,"end":20976.976,"text":"你们是删除是不是删除文字还是怎么样没有 是将这个本来有个地方是认定改为锁定然后如有认 认为认有应该是在第二项的部分"},{"start":20987.538,"end":21012.171,"text":"來因為你在這個提供的書面資料沒有畫修改的地方沒有畫底線所以我們再確認一下我也請我們在場委員一起確認一下對 第八頁那我們現在討論的都是左手邊的第一欄那交通部的這個文字在第九行嗎"},{"start":21036.397,"end":21049.851,"text":"好來各位委員看這樣子可以接受嗎可以按照交通部的修訂文字好那如果說其他委員沒有其他意見的話那我們43條之一"},{"start":21056.545,"end":21084.495,"text":"是李昆哲委員的版本那我們就依照李昆哲委員的是不是蔡啟昌委員他的修正動議好那這樣子43條之一就依照李昆哲委員跟蔡啟昌委員修正動議共同在修正後通過好45條之三來那請鐵道局說明一下好"},{"start":21085.469,"end":21111.77,"text":"這條我們表示支持 但是其中有關捷運沿線施工安全作業標準的文字我們建議修正為捷運沿線施工安全管制一樣就是捷運沿線施工的安全的部分來在場委員如果沒有意見的話那我們就依蔡吉昌委員所提修正動議通過"},{"start":21114.895,"end":21130.885,"text":"好 第51條51條來 那行政部門就直接先說明一下"},{"start":21132.413,"end":21159.685,"text":"第51條我們也是表示支持那早上蔡吉山委員有一個修正動議版本修正的小文因為會連動到剛剛其他的修正條文所以修正的這個款次相對比較多那我們建議就按照蔡吉山委員的修正動議來予以通過好 我們這場委員有沒有相關建議好 如果沒有的話那我們就依照蔡吉山委員等人的修正動議通過"},{"start":21162.389,"end":21190.965,"text":"感覺蔡委員應該下次要請我們交通委員會吃個飯開玩笑好來再來我們第三個部分鐵路法我們請大家再看一下鐵路法那針對鐵路法部分我們現在進行逐條審查首先第26條我們盧縣議委員或是連署委員有沒有要說明補充說明"},{"start":21193.547,"end":21205.369,"text":"好如果沒有的話因為連署委員或提案委員人不在那我們先暫時不予處理好那再來第35條"},{"start":21241.362,"end":21246.447,"text":"我們等一下可以是26條35條留在委員會 其餘今天"},{"start":21263.183,"end":21281.61,"text":"好來鐵道局局長說明一下跟盧委員溝通的部分好不好那個第26條有跟盧委員做過報告那委員也表示了解就是本案的這個有關優待票的法源應該是要回到老人福利法或者是身心障礙的權益保障法來提供優待跟差額的相關補貼好"},{"start":21284.537,"end":21312.766,"text":"那這樣已經溝通過那我們26條就不予修正維持現行條文那再來第35條也是盧縣議委員的版本相同的情況是的好那我們一樣不予修正維持現行條文第40條來陳俊宇委員有沒有提案委員或是臉書委員要說明如果沒有的話我們請行政部門這邊來說明一下好包包委員會建議按照委員提案通過"},{"start":21316.598,"end":21334.177,"text":"好 就是啟動旅客如果說有這個狀況的話啟動旅客接駁應變計畫是不是那這個接駁應變計畫平時的時候就已經有先擬定那要由鐵道局其實現在就有現在就有各個鐵路機關所以主管機關是鐵道局嘛對不對是的好"},{"start":21335.678,"end":21350.596,"text":"好那就依照陳俊委員提案通過第四十條依照陳俊委員提案通過第五十六條之四台灣民眾黨提案主席是請說"},{"start":21354.59,"end":21375.997,"text":"是 56條之四可以發言嗎是 請說我想56條之四還有67條之三 68條之四都大概是相同的事情就是大家關心到我們鐵路員工遭受暴力對待的案發的這個案例現在情況越來越多 越來越嚴重了"},{"start":21377.597,"end":21403.657,"text":"台鐵的員工受暴事件在2022年只有兩件我看你們今年的報告到現在已經有13件而且不是特定車站在很多營業處都有所以本席也支持透過立法要強化保障我們的台鐵員工對施暴的行為過去沒有的現在應該要明定一個法則讓我們台鐵的站務人員還有列車長"},{"start":21404.838,"end":21433.498,"text":"不要成為無端的受氣對象但是我看一下我們台鐵目前的安全配置確實有需要加強目前全台灣台鐵只有在台北站 高雄站還有屏東的兩個站龜來和林落設有保全人員我意思是說我們不能只依靠鐵路警察根本沒有辦法保護我們不夠人力來保護我們的台鐵的同仁"},{"start":21434.705,"end":21453.532,"text":"你看那個就算有設有保全台北 高雄才各三個屏東兩個站 各一個人在中部 東區的營業處完全沒有現在台鐵已經列為國家關鍵的基礎設施了如果我們員工受暴事件頻繁發生這個實在也是一個"},{"start":21454.392,"end":21472.177,"text":"也是個很矛盾的很笑話我們不能只依靠鐵路警察所以我是覺得台鐵應該要依照我們車站的規模還有人流的數量進行整體安全評估尤其在一些特等站像直轄市的台北台中高雄台南或者像花蓮觀光客多的"},{"start":21473.097,"end":21492.373,"text":"應該要增聘保全的人力未來再逐漸擴大到人潮較多的車站至少在第一階段這些直轄市特等站應該要先增加增聘人力來保護台鐵的員工讓第一線的同仁減少他們職場受害的狀況以上 謝謝"},{"start":21498.299,"end":21509.617,"text":"好 謝謝來 那針對條文的部分俊憲委有需要請台鐵總經理這邊回應嗎好 那我們是不是台鐵這邊請台鐵說明一下來 麻煩"},{"start":21513.157,"end":21538.848,"text":"報委員 就有關於委員提出來第56條之四的這個條文我們是支持也會全力來配合那委員剛才提到保全的部分因為委員還有召委都多次有提到我們已經進行全面盤點那我們在一個月內會把它盤點完來全面來做提升也符合條文修訂條文的相關的規定以上"},{"start":21540.021,"end":21562.964,"text":"因為主要是還是有分這個大戰小戰那業務量其實也都不同那如果說可以我們先從六都在各縣市至少這樣子分門別類因為一定是要先做你才能夠有往改革的方向走好那56條之四是就照台灣民眾黨團提案通過"},{"start":21567.028,"end":21583.445,"text":"今天我們桌上有一個司法院的書面意見他是有提到說從業人員的定義不夠清楚經檢視我們目前的鐵路法裡面有提到兩種人員一個是鐵路從業人員一個是鐵路行車人員"},{"start":21584.826,"end":21605.527,"text":"行車人員的部分在56條之四有非常明確的這個定義跟相關的合格基準的授權由交通部來定制因為同樣我們等一下在68條之四會提到從業人員如果遭受這個相關的騷擾或攻擊的時候會有法律上對應的這樣的一個刑罰或者是罰則"},{"start":21606.548,"end":21629.944,"text":"所以我們是不是可以建議說參照司法院的書面意見將從業人員的定義在56條之四的第三項就是最後這一項現在講的是前向鐵路行車人員之定義加上前向鐵路從業人員及行車人員之定義"},{"start":21630.885,"end":21652.845,"text":"換句話說我們在後續的執法規則裡面把這個定義做一個更為明確或許在未來的執法上面這一個相關的定義會比較清楚也就是說在68條之四所受到的這個法律的處罰的課題會相對明確我想這是參照司法院的這樣的一個意見做一個臨時的這樣的一個補充"},{"start":21654.506,"end":21675.817,"text":"好來各位委員針對剛剛提案剛剛這個說明來黃建豪委員請謝謝召委那個我想要確認一下就是說因為提案委員好像沒有在這邊但是我要確認一下這個鐵路行車人員跟鐵路從業人員是不同的"},{"start":21678.557,"end":21698.486,"text":"還是鐵路從業人員本來就包含鐵路行車人員鐵路系統裡面的從業人員範圍比較大比如說售票的人或者是說這個在檢票口協助這個旅客進出的同仁但是鐵路行車人員我們現在在相關的執法規則定義非常清楚有五類的人員包括駕駛行控"},{"start":21699.326,"end":21724.452,"text":"列車長然後部分的執行車站裡面運轉的站務人員跟維修人員所以他有他一定的這個鐵路安全上面的職責但是鐵路從業人員可能有部分是屬於服務旅客的這樣的一個部分那我們現在有相當大的部分也就是從業人員會跟旅客會有直接的這樣的一個接觸所以才會有剛剛後面的這些法令的這些保護對責出來"},{"start":21725.492,"end":21745.175,"text":"好謝謝局長因為我意思是說如果鐵路從業人員的範圍比較廣因為民眾黨團的提案的前條文字裡面也是說要確保從業人員執行鐵路業務時的安全所以他前面也是用從業人員這個詞所以我說在後面所謂的所謂的鐵路行車人員的部分不缺點能不能直接幫他們改成就是鐵路從業人員"},{"start":21747.017,"end":21760.852,"text":"因為鐵路行車人員有很多的嚴格的要求包括你的駕駛你要受1000個小時的訓練等等要拿到部分的所謂的專業的證照等等這個部分會有一點不太一樣"},{"start":21761.693,"end":21779.87,"text":"好 沒關係 沒有意見 謝謝我這邊是不是做一個補充剛剛這一條的部分後面那邊大概可能要除了局長所提的行車人員 集中人員那個應該前二項加個二他是分別在第一項跟第二項所以是前兩項"},{"start":21781.9,"end":21803.42,"text":"不是只有前項第一項是指從業人員第二項是指行車人員所以那在第三項裡面講前兩項就那個前項裡面加一個2前兩項鐵路行車人員及從業人員是定義好來我們是不是一起看一下這個上面的文字"},{"start":21811.468,"end":21831.99,"text":"就前兩項鐵路從業人員及行車人員的定義所以如果說這個修法通過之後鐵道局就要在最短時間內就訂出從業人員的範圍包括說實施的方法等等這相關定義然後應實施的這一些部分對不對"},{"start":21834.133,"end":21856.571,"text":"因為其實你是說行車人員的定義以及應實施的訓練技能檢定體格精神狀態是現已經有因為現有是行車人員嘛那你現在再加上從業人員的話你們就要在最短時間內把從業人員的定義實施的訓練技能檢定體格也要一起把它給定義出來"},{"start":21857.031,"end":21884.327,"text":"但是從業人員的標準相對會低很多是 就是說依照你們去訂定嘛 對好來請教我們現場委員如果沒有意見的話那我們就依照我們這來 林俊憲委員好 謝謝那我同意啊好那我們就依照文字這邊台灣民眾黨團的版本那提案文字修正後通過"},{"start":21887.202,"end":21907.755,"text":"好再來56條之五來請李昆哲委員謝謝召委56條之五主要是要修法明訂鐵路機構應該要建置營運安全的管理系統我認為應該要交通部來訂定他的系統的範圍內容以及"},{"start":21908.715,"end":21936.354,"text":"建制的細則讓安全管理的要求得以制度化標準化那這次修法我希望是能夠確保鐵路安全管理與國際的標準來接軌來敦促相關的單位鞏固自我監督持續改善的一個能力強化公共運輸安全的韌性實現社會大家對於鐵路安全治理的一個期待以上"},{"start":21937.756,"end":21957.245,"text":"好 謝謝 請林俊憲委員也好 謝謝主席其實這個國際的鐵道業者大概都已經全面導入我們現在討論的這個叫安全管理系統就是SMS那我國因為在蒲英堡事件以後交通部運燃所也開始研究相關的計畫"},{"start":21959.366,"end":21985.254,"text":"那我們交通部其實在2022年就修正鐵路行車規則就那時候在這個鐵路行車規則2022年的修正就有明確要求這個各鐵路機構要建立自己的行車安全管理系統並且要全部應該要在2024年就是去年就要正式上路但是這個喊了那麼多年我發現台鐵最近幾年來的行車異常件數"},{"start":21986.954,"end":21992.983,"text":"仍然是很高啦2020年632件再來699件再來一直到2023年變777件去年你可以說因為有天災影響破1000破1000件"},{"start":22004.724,"end":22027.021,"text":"台鐵今年也發生很多什麼吊車意外 漏掛車廂或者列車冒進站等等上半年就有將近400件的所謂的行車異常甚至連所謂的模範生高鐵今年也發生第一次的過站不停的狀況所以我要提醒交通部因為次長在這裡"},{"start":22028.462,"end":22056.389,"text":"那這個SMS建置確實我認為應該提升到更高的位置 位階來你現在都是由比如台鐵訂自己的 高鐵訂自己的嘛那我看李君哲委員的提案 本期支持他啦那江東部是不是在這個部分應該要復齊一些就是把這個安全準則的位階再提高一下要不然有發生那麼多的行車異常這個時代是 我認為沒有改善的還可以越來越嚴重 好不好"},{"start":22058.469,"end":22081.008,"text":"好 以上 謝謝主席好 謝謝來 請行政部門說明一下報告委員感謝委員的提案這一條我們建議給予支持有兩個地方的文字略做一個小的修正主要就是營運安全管理系統我們沒有營運兩個字也就是安全管理系統最後一項配合做一些調整"},{"start":22081.908,"end":22100.025,"text":"好那如果說這個調整修正後文字沒有意見的話那我們就56條之5依照李昆澤委員等人提案修正後通過57條先強委員要不要再說明一下"},{"start":22102.83,"end":22122.472,"text":"好謝謝這個抱歉喔上面有兩個我的版本喔因為我去年有提一個然後今年有再提一個那主要這一次是要呃針對廖信翔等25人擬聚的那個條文好來做討論那其實之前也有跟鐵道局做相關的討論了啦那呃提出修法當然就是我們鐵道當然還要還在鐵路那是運輸量能比較"},{"start":22123.593,"end":22148.531,"text":"高的運輸需求為主的但是我們台鐵目前還有一些支線那其實他的運輸量比較低那他也都常常跟地方的觀光結合的黏著性也是比較高的那包括早期的這些支線他們在都市的發展的時候常常會有一些奇形怪狀的狀態產生例如去年這個山雕林要去爬瀑布那你只有鐵道可以走"},{"start":22149.131,"end":22171.411,"text":"甚至可能我記得在基隆那一邊也是有類似的一個情況就是民宅必須要經過車站範圍等等的因此在這一次的修法就是希望在非電氣化鐵路的部分予以放寬讓如果說營運單位認為可以的話我們有授權來做赤路的放寬"},{"start":22173.252,"end":22201.564,"text":"好 就是針對民眾通行疏散人潮或是發展觀光等其他特殊需求經鐵路機關另行公告範圍不再實現來 行政部門好 謝謝委員的提案這個提案我們也是表示原則支持但是建議做一個地方就是剛剛委員口頭有提到的這個鐵路非電話區間這可能要把它加上去也就是說在電話的區間其實大概要能夠公告這樣子的範圍"},{"start":22202.404,"end":22227.623,"text":"的可能性非常非常的小那也不可能但為了避免未來執行上面的一些困擾我們是不是建議就在這個法的上面把它做明確的定義所以修正的文字呢在這個但基於民眾通行這個但字的後面加上鐵路非電話區間這幾個字但鐵路非電話區間基於民眾通行等等等好"},{"start":22231.147,"end":22254.353,"text":"來我們上面再看一下非電話區間基於民眾通行疏散人潮好好那沒有問題的話57條就依廖先生委員等人提案修正後通過第65條"},{"start":22259.13,"end":22262.787,"text":"我們張宏祿委員或提案連署委員有沒有 沒有在現場"},{"start":22265.632,"end":22292.385,"text":"那這個我們就先不予處理有修正動議嗎好來行政部門說明一下好不好有沒有跟張宏魯委員溝通過這個案子有跟委員做過報告那建議是這樣就是說第一項的部分呢我們表示支持那作修文字那第三項第四項第五項建議不予修正"},{"start":22296.773,"end":22321.014,"text":"所以現在原有是5倍到30倍那要調高到10倍到50倍然後文字做調整修正好如果沒有意見的話那65條這邊就依照張宏祿委員等人所提出修正意見修正動議通過67條之3"},{"start":22329.927,"end":22344.093,"text":"來行政部門也有溝通過是不是有報告建議照委員提案通過好台灣民眾黨黨團版本那就依照台灣民眾黨黨團提案通過68條之4"},{"start":22353.636,"end":22375.72,"text":"好68條知識本席有提案那其實最主要就是針對之前我們一直看到說這個鐵道暴力那我們一直強調大宗運輸尤其是我們的台鐵也好高鐵也好其實各運輸工具在廉價期間反而是工作同仁最辛苦的時候大家在廉價工作人員在工作在執勤提供最好的服務"},{"start":22376.36,"end":22398.336,"text":"那如果說因為這個壓力大或是說因為排隊等等而造成情緒而導致我們的工作同仁被攻擊還是說像這個晚上11點多我們已經把旅客安全的送到站了但是旅客不願意醒來還在那邊擄小小那很抱歉我們就應該要給予我們台鐵從業人員最"},{"start":22400.317,"end":22417.312,"text":"大的一個保障所以如果以任何暴力威脅恐嚇非法方式來危害鐵路從業人員執行鐵路業務的話我們認為是應該要加重處罰那當然刑責的部分刑責的部分之前也比照參考議事法"},{"start":22418.012,"end":22446.548,"text":"就是這個急診式暴力我們也應該要嚇阻這樣子一個暴力的一個手段所以刑責部分我們也看一下說各委員以及這個交通部這邊有沒有相關建議的一個版本那我們現在看到部這邊有修我這邊有提一個修正動議是希望是採取處六個月以上五年以下的有期徒刑"},{"start":22448.53,"end":22462.146,"text":"並且併科新台幣3萬元以上30萬元以下罰金請教我們行政部門這邊有沒有相關的一個意見"},{"start":22464.227,"end":22487.555,"text":"包委員 我們原來的建議是這樣就是說有關處罰額度的部分第一項建議是3年以下有期徒刑的病科30萬以下罰金跟剛剛委員有提到就是可能有6個月以上3年以下這樣的一個落差第二項是因為致重傷者 刑度修正為3年以上10年以下有期徒刑"},{"start":22488.855,"end":22516.77,"text":"那第三項的部分我們建議這個加一個之餘然後鐵路機構的拒絕運送那但是並同後面的第72條我們會建議現在的第三項調整為第四項中間增加一個警察機關或鐵路機構接到通報應及派員赴現場排除或制止之如涉及刑事責任者應以"},{"start":22517.711,"end":22524.161,"text":"現行犯處置並移送司法機關偵辦好 等於這一條68條之4跟後面連帶的72條"},{"start":22531.167,"end":22549.239,"text":"也連動那你們現在是說把七十二條的這個立法精神就是警察機關或是鐵道機關接貨通報應該派員到現場排除跟制止那搬到合併到六八之市就對了好那文字是不是剛剛有念出來可以再讓大家看一下"},{"start":22551.434,"end":22578.741,"text":"就是說我們現在有72條跟68條之事那立法精神合併為立法精神都保留但合併為一條條文在68條之事所以就是說如果有發生這個鐵道暴力事件或是說在這個運行當中的暴力狀況的話那警察機關有接獲前面兩項者應該立即派員到現場排除或制止"},{"start":22579.401,"end":22602.027,"text":"那是涉嫌刑事責任者就移送司法機關偵辦所以我想這也是給我們警察機關不管是鐵道警察局或者是地方的派出所對不對只要你有獲報這樣子的一個暴力攻擊恐嚇等非法手段來妨礙鐵路從業人員執行鐵路業務那就應該要積極的處理介入對不對"},{"start":22609.451,"end":22632.186,"text":"好那文字的部分上面那我們現在回到第一項就是看一下說那個這個刑度的一個部分現在醫師法就是急診室暴力它現在是那個刑度是多少就是三年以下五年三年以下的有期徒刑"},{"start":22634.298,"end":22652.094,"text":"好那这样子我想那就尊重我们部内这边所提出来的文字修正那就是处三年以下有期徒刑并科新台币30万元以下罚金那如果说有犯这个前罪致人于死就处"},{"start":22656.759,"end":22668.877,"text":"3年 沒有 致人於死的話處無期徒刑或7年以上有期徒刑致重傷則是處3年以上10年以下有期徒刑好 請教各位委員有沒有其他建議"},{"start":22671.836,"end":22687.794,"text":"我想这是为我们所有大宗运输工具的从业人员来发声用这个态度不是要处罚人我们其实每一次这个讨论我就说你只要不犯罪不会被处罚那最重要的是嚇阻犯罪的发生以及告诉"},{"start":22688.695,"end":22709.981,"text":"任何人你要用非法的暴力強迫威脅手段妨礙鐵路從業人員執行鐵路業務的話就會有更重的刑責更重的罰還告訴你不要有這種職場暴力告訴你不要有這種騷擾服務人員的暴力行為這是保障我們的鐵路從業人員"},{"start":22712.714,"end":22729.506,"text":"那未來因為這是鐵路法但未來我覺得也請交通部這邊針對我們其他大眾運輸工具的從業人員可能也要有這樣子相關的立法精神因為現在我們只是保障了鐵路從業人員嘛那航空從業人員呢"},{"start":22731.227,"end":22750.456,"text":"航空從業人員其實跟鐵路從業人員一樣啊他也是在大眾運輸提供服務但如果說他有暴力強迫威脅等非法手段妨礙航空從業人員執行航空業務那是不是也應該要加重是航空鐵路那甚至大眾運輸還是我們的公車司機駕駛"},{"start":22752.257,"end":22765.673,"text":"這一些可能就是後續我也請這個交通部來去做一個盤點因為它可能是散落在不同部的法令但現在鐵路法是保障鐵路從業人員那我們希望的是"},{"start":22766.994,"end":22793.268,"text":"只要良善提供運輸服務者我們都要予以尊重我們也要予以保障那希望所有的乘客大家當一個開心的消費者開心的乘客那也要尊重我們從業人員大家的服務我想這是我們的一個立法精神好那我們就68條之4就以報告主席怎麼樣請說"},{"start":22804.332,"end":22831.026,"text":"好 那個修正動議我提出來的版本洪孟凱跟黃建豪還有廖先祥委員我們共同有提出來一個修正動議版本是妨礙鐵路 就第一項了妨礙鐵路從業人員執行業務或因而傷害鐵路從業人員之身體或健康者處多少以上的這個"},{"start":22832.952,"end":22855.038,"text":"那這一個可能就變成是說有一些是還有包括說是妨礙進而傷害鐵路從業人員的身體或健康者那這可能就會更細也是更含瓜各不同面向我們有沒有相關這個法務部代表"},{"start":22856.673,"end":22876.82,"text":"要不要說明一下我們這樣子的寫法會不會更加的完善報告主席其實這個提案可以看得出主席對這個鐵路沖人員的重視不過因為基本上在法定刑度上面剛剛主席有裁示是要比照我們醫療法的法定刑度之後它會變成是一個三年下學徒刑之罪"},{"start":22877.8,"end":22897.547,"text":"如果把傷害放在這邊的話會有一個結構性的問題是這個跟刑法277條的傷害罪相比它的刑責法要比較輕因為傷害罪是五年以下所以如果真的發生這種狀況的話就會變成是依交通部的版本再加上刑法的競合然後在量刑上面會做一個考量"},{"start":22898.567,"end":22924.694,"text":"好那就是如果说真的有比较重的犯刑的话那当然就要用比较重的一个罚则嘛好那这样子我们就是68条之事就依照报告召委台铁公司可不可以我们建议可以增加一个字第三项那个部分他因派员是不是可以写因疾派员"},{"start":22928.211,"end":22938.739,"text":"因即刻派源因立即的即因為這一次就是有發生類似這樣的一個情形他會派源可是68字是"},{"start":22945.256,"end":22962.606,"text":"六十八支誌总经理讲的是六十八支誌的第三项就是说刚刚新增在那个荧幕上面来我们看因为他把七十四条的立法精神立到六十八支誌所以他现在第三项就是七十四条的内容"},{"start":22963.499,"end":22988.599,"text":"那74條內容裡面就包括說應急派員赴現場排除鐵路警察局報告就是原來這個立法一直原來是參考醫療法第24條參考的用字就是警察違反第二項規定者警察機關應排除或自止之如涉及刑事責任應移送"},{"start":22989.599,"end":23004.71,"text":"因移送司法機關偵辦最主要它是因參考這個文字用語在實務上當然我們接獲到或是知道有這些狀況刑事案件狀況警察機關一定都是最快的速度派我們不會故意拖延"},{"start":23005.35,"end":23026.147,"text":"那這個應急是不是不知道他的這個要多少時間多少分鐘當然我們都是會要求我們同仁都在實務上都是最快的速度派遣那沒有到比如說他這個沒有到應該也有他在處理事件的原因這個以上補充說明報告來我們這場有沒有相關的建議"},{"start":23037.478,"end":23065.453,"text":"其实实在话讲不会说因为有没有这个急或是不急然后就代表是说他就可以拖延其实我觉得这一点倒是不会说因为我们这样没有写这个字或有写这个字他就一定因为那及时是多及时要有定义这样也会我们还是回归就是跟因为这一条我们修法当时的一个立法精神也是参照急诊室暴力而来"},{"start":23066.073,"end":23078.352,"text":"所以说也是参照这个一事法的一个部分那这样子我想还是维持刚刚交通部所提出来的文字修正的一个方向好不好好大家再看一下"},{"start":23081.573,"end":23109.603,"text":"好文字就就是把74條的立法精神74條內容然後併到68支4來第三項就是警察機關知如知還是如知有警察機關知有前兩項情形者應派員赴現場排除或制止之如涉及刑事責任者應移送司法機關偵辦"},{"start":23112.967,"end":23134.357,"text":"好 那如果没有问题的话68之4我们就依照报告主席 是是 加控是 法务部这边有一个小的法制用语的建议在第一项的第二行好 第一项第二行现在是第三行好 请说这边的妨碍其实我们一般在刑法或是行政刑法上都不会用这个用语我们会用妨害"},{"start":23135.418,"end":23149.48,"text":"防害對因為這個法治體力統一的問題一般是行政法採用這個防害兩個字很好以上參考請大院參考好那我們就依照法務部的這個專業意見那就改成防害"},{"start":23150.731,"end":23175.16,"text":"好讓我先盯著大家看不要只是唸然後沒有看到大家所以有問題請舉手讓我知道好沒有委員也都可以接受很好好那這樣68條之事我們就依照黃孟楷委員等19人的提案修正後通過"},{"start":23181.384,"end":23200.634,"text":"72就是剛剛那72條就是剛剛已經有併案處理了嘛那這樣子我們72條就不予修正維持現行條文好請教各位委員有沒有相關的意見好那有一個附帶決議是不是請同仁念一下附帶決議"},{"start":23202.631,"end":23231.58,"text":"附帶決議 建請交通部臺灣鐵路股份有限公司在確保列車運行與軌道設施設備安全無預知前提下於鐵路法 某年某月某日修正案公告實施後三個月內研議於平溪縣附使後於適當時段及部分路段有條件開放民眾通行及辦理私房天燈活動以兼顧列車運行安全及地方既有觀光與生活需求"},{"start":23232.02,"end":23238.004,"text":"提案人委員徐滬群 許志傑陳樹月 舒巧慧宣布完畢報告召委還有委員我們同意來照附帶決議來辦理好附帶決議可以依照辦理好那我們就附帶決議通過"},{"start":23273.82,"end":23288.383,"text":"好 個案與修正條文協商處理完畢後如有委員對於附帶決議補簽列入記錄並且刊登公報討論事項一至三案個案"},{"start":23289.626,"end":23303.421,"text":"條文及附帶決議均已協商完畢協商完畢 作以下宣告本日各修正草案之主條審查其協商結論免於宣讀授權議事人員整理為決議內容"},{"start":23306.872,"end":23333.576,"text":"本次會議法案部分做以下決議一道路交通管理處罰條例大眾捷運法及鐵路法等修正草案均已分別並案審查完略分別凝聚審查報告提報院會討論院會討論前均不需交由黨團協商院會討論時均由紅昭及委員孟凱做補充說明二"},{"start":23334.888,"end":23359.201,"text":"審查過程就審查結果 如需補充立法說明 請交通部盡速送交通委員會以便列於審查報告3 條次引述條文部分文字及原引條次授權主席及議事人員整理本次會議結束 感謝各位同仁以及行政長官 散會"},{"start":23373.046,"end":23384.155,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":23411.493,"end":23414.599,"text":"響鐘"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}