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求法官每一次每一次都開庭要請他一再的陳述你知道那個馬大生被殺案他的媽媽每次來台灣結果法官要他一次一次一次的論述他女兒這個被被"},{"start":491,"end":492.28,"text":"強姦殺害的過程"},{"start":492.78,"end":494.06,"text":"這個對父母的"},{"start":494.32,"end":494.84,"text":"這是"},{"start":495.34,"end":497.14,"text":"比殺了他還痛苦啊"},{"start":497.4,"end":497.9,"text":"所以"},{"start":498.42,"end":505.34,"text":"這樣的制度有問題嗎你比如說你的這個陳述是不是一次有人整理完畢之後法官不用再一再的重複"},{"start":505.6,"end":506.36,"text":"他可能需要就"},{"start":506.62,"end":511.98,"text":"犯罪事實調查沒有清楚的部分再次詢問而不需要就診斷的重新"},{"start":512.24,"end":513.78,"text":"在法庭上面公開再來"},{"start":514.04,"end":514.8,"text":"所以我們有時候一直講"},{"start":515.06,"end":519.16,"text":"我國刑事訴訟制度為什麼一定要用附審制為什麼不用續審制"},{"start":519.42,"end":520.18,"text":"你附審制"},{"start":520.64,"end":521.16,"text":"搞得"},{"start":521.66,"end":524.4799999999999,"text":"所有東西重新再來一次所有制度重新再來一次"},{"start":524.7399999999999,"end":527.7199999999999,"text":"結果最嚴謹的一審的交互結論結果你"},{"start":527.9799999999999,"end":528.7399999999999,"text":"反而"},{"start":529.4799999999999,"end":533.8399999999999,"text":"用沒有像一審那麼嚴謹的制度要去又可以去否決掉一審的判決"},{"start":534.5799999999999,"end":539.8399999999999,"text":"這就是我其實我從第一年當立委我就一直在說為什麼我國刑事訴訟不走向續審制"},{"start":540.0999999999999,"end":541.12,"text":"而是走附審制"},{"start":541.38,"end":541.9,"text":"非常"},{"start":542.4,"end":545.2199999999999,"text":"非常感謝委員願意支持二審走向續審制"},{"start":545.7199999999999,"end":547.52,"text":"其實剛委員所提到的就"},{"start":547.68,"end":548.6999999999999,"text":"因為附審制"},{"start":548.96,"end":551.52,"text":"在二審所造成事實重複的調查"},{"start":551.78,"end":554.0799999999999,"text":"那當然法官在訴訟指揮的時候"},{"start":554.5799999999999,"end":556.88,"text":"可能不夠體貼我必須要這樣講"},{"start":557.14,"end":559.46,"text":"那有些尤其這一次"},{"start":559.72,"end":560.98,"text":"像剛委員所說的"},{"start":561.24,"end":562.5,"text":"這個陪同到場"},{"start":562.76,"end":564.3199999999999,"text":"這個被害人他"},{"start":564.5799999999999,"end":565.36,"text":"老實說"},{"start":565.62,"end":568.42,"text":"我覺得被害人並不是很清楚"},{"start":568.66,"end":570.46,"text":"因為我相信沒有人希望被害"},{"start":570.72,"end":572,"text":"沒有人知道這個規定"},{"start":572.26,"end":574.86,"text":"所以這也是我們一直要再要求"},{"start":575.12,"end":577.42,"text":"法院關於被害人這些權利"},{"start":577.68,"end":579.48,"text":"務必要告訴清楚"},{"start":579.74,"end":581.28,"text":"這個是我們一直努力的方向"},{"start":581.52,"end":585.66,"text":"那這個也是我的一個我的主軸我要跟你說的這是我最大的關鍵就是"},{"start":586.18,"end":588.48,"text":"被害人把最痛的事情說完之後"},{"start":588.74,"end":590.52,"text":"法院有義務"},{"start":590.78,"end":592.06,"text":"要用判決告訴他"},{"start":592.3199999999999,"end":593.6,"text":"你的話我聽到了"},{"start":593.86,"end":594.88,"text":"我的考量是什麼"},{"start":595.38,"end":598.1999999999999,"text":"你心裡的痛我聽到了我給你的回應是什麼"},{"start":598.46,"end":600.76,"text":"而不是永遠就是那個罐頭式的用語"},{"start":601.02,"end":603.3199999999999,"text":"被害人那個身心受創慎重"},{"start":603.5799999999999,"end":604.62,"text":"那個沒有用啦"},{"start":604.86,"end":605.38,"text":"那個"},{"start":605.64,"end":606.92,"text":"當事人沒有感覺"},{"start":607.0799999999999,"end":609.4,"text":"所以我要讓被害人的訴訟參與制度"},{"start":609.66,"end":611.4399999999999,"text":"不是可以參與而已"},{"start":611.6999999999999,"end":614.5,"text":"我是要讓他真的有安全有尊嚴的"},{"start":614.76,"end":615.28,"text":"能夠"},{"start":615.54,"end":617.8199999999999,"text":"完整的參與這是我希望的啦"},{"start":618.0799999999999,"end":619.88,"text":"那其實喔你想還有一個"},{"start":620.14,"end":623.2199999999999,"text":"我們常在講施多獎那個女教師被殺害的案子"},{"start":623.4799999999999,"end":625.04,"text":"那個教授的太太他被"},{"start":625.3,"end":627.0999999999999,"text":"那個強姦殺人被殺害"},{"start":627.86,"end":628.88,"text":"張教授這"},{"start":629.14,"end":633.6999999999999,"text":"到更世審改判無期徒刑他一路走下來十年啦"},{"start":633.9599999999999,"end":636.56,"text":"他說他看到被告永遠是三個律師在幫他"},{"start":636.7199999999999,"end":640.28,"text":"他是到二審才知道原來範寶可以協助他請一個律師"},{"start":640.54,"end":641.8399999999999,"text":"他之前完全不知道"},{"start":642.0999999999999,"end":644.64,"text":"那他就他在當場他開庭的感覺就是"},{"start":644.9,"end":645.9,"text":"我被一群人欺負"},{"start":646.16,"end":649.88,"text":"然後被告又是國家聘了他律師來一起欺負我這個"},{"start":650.14,"end":651.16,"text":"悲慘的被害人"},{"start":651.42,"end":652.6999999999999,"text":"所以他的感覺是這樣"},{"start":652.9599999999999,"end":656.02,"text":"所以我們很多時候我一直在想我們的制度把被害人"},{"start":656.28,"end":659.8599999999999,"text":"把被我們的制度把被告保障的這麼完善"},{"start":660.1199999999999,"end":662.42,"text":"但是我們的制度卻忘了被害人"},{"start":662.68,"end":666.26,"text":"如果司法還有一點點溫暖我們應該留給的是被害人"},{"start":666.72,"end":667.48,"text":"而不是"},{"start":667.74,"end":669.28,"text":"毫無保留的留給被告"},{"start":669.54,"end":670.3,"text":"那這樣子"},{"start":670.56,"end":672.1,"text":"世界不需要正義了嘛"},{"start":672.36,"end":674.4,"text":"犯錯的人我們來保護他"},{"start":674.66,"end":676.7,"text":"被害的人大家一起忘記他"},{"start":676.96,"end":680.8,"text":"這個世界就不要正義這也不是我們司法人能夠接受的事嘛"},{"start":680.8,"end":681.8199999999999,"text":"所以我一直"},{"start":682.34,"end":684.14,"text":"拜託你們要注意這個點"},{"start":684.64,"end":685.16,"text":"那"},{"start":685.66,"end":686.7,"text":"我想就是"},{"start":686.9399999999999,"end":689.76,"text":"張教授這十年來他一直告訴法院是什麼"},{"start":690.02,"end":692.3199999999999,"text":"他對於改判無期徒刑"},{"start":693.0400000000001,"end":696.88,"text":"他一直覺得法官法院都沒有跟他說原因是什麼"},{"start":697.140000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7.92,"text":"我希望強調這三件事"},{"start":1057.92,"end":1059.98,"text":"安全被聽見被尊重"},{"start":1060.22,"end":1061.76,"text":"在他們訴訟參與上面"},{"start":1062.02,"end":1062.52,"text":"所以喔"},{"start":1062.78,"end":1063.56,"text":"被聽見"},{"start":1065.32,"end":1067.02,"text":"我要讓他們在訴訟參與上面"},{"start":1067.02,"end":1068.42,"text":"他們有被聽見的權利"},{"start":1068.5,"end":1069.7,"text":"被保護的身份"},{"start":1069.94,"end":1073.28,"text":"有人支持的過程還有不必要再次受到"},{"start":1073.78,"end":1074.28,"text":"傷害"},{"start":1076.02,"end":1077.38,"text":"被害人的傷口喔"},{"start":1077.88,"end":1078.38,"text":"永久"},{"start":1078.88,"end":1080.42,"text":"公開我們不要這樣"},{"start":1080.68,"end":1083.52,"text":"我們要的是法院如何看待這個傷口要"},{"start":1083.78,"end":1085.8200000000002,"text":"永久留下來說理"},{"start":1086.1000000000001,"end":1088.4,"text":"來告訴大家我的說理是什麼"},{"start":1089.42,"end":1089.92,"text":"我跟"},{"start":1090.16,"end":1091.46,"text":"民進黨最後跟民進黨報告"},{"start":1092.24,"end":1095.3000000000002,"text":"被害人的訴訟參與我從當地法委員的第一"},{"start":1095.52,"end":1098.58,"text":"第一年開始一直在做一步一步做到了"},{"start":1099.08,"end":1099.6,"text":"但是呢"},{"start":1100.12,"end":1103.7,"text":"我還是必須要完成最後這下一哩路就是"},{"start":1103.96,"end":1106,"text":"讓他們能夠安全有尊嚴的參與"},{"start":1106.76,"end":1107.26,"text":"因為"},{"start":1108.3,"end":1111.8999999999999,"text":"我在當立委之前我心裡的感受就是被害人在"},{"start":1112.3999999999999,"end":1114.2,"text":"在訴訟中都被遺忘了"},{"start":1114.44,"end":1116.24,"text":"所以我一直想要強化這一塊"},{"start":1116.5,"end":1117.28,"text":"也請"},{"start":1117.28,"end":1118.54,"text":"民主黨也請"},{"start":1118.8,"end":1120.08,"text":"各位在場的司法人員"},{"start":1120.34,"end":1121.62,"text":"想一想被害人家屬"},{"start":1121.8799999999999,"end":1123.1399999999999,"text":"他們承受的痛"},{"start":1123.1399999999999,"end":1124.44,"text":"而不是只有被告"},{"start":1124.6000000000001,"end":1125.64,"text":"需要被保護"},{"start":1125.9,"end":1129,"text":"委員所提出來的這四項"},{"start":1129.26,"end":1131.56,"text":"絕對是我們司法院努力向前的"},{"start":1132.06,"end":1134.3600000000001,"text":"謝謝民主黨謝謝各位"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:28:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:28:35.818182+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，麻煩請司法院。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T09:28:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:28:38.600000+08:00","text":"請高秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:28:42+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:29:07.666667+08:00","text":"秘書長，我現在先肯定司法院的一件事情，就是你們的報告中有明確支持我提出來的被害影響陳述，也就是當法院在決定要判被告多重之前，應該要給被害人一個說出他心裡話的機會，讓他說清楚這個犯罪對他心理、家庭或是身體造成了人生什麼樣重大的影響，要讓他說清楚。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:29:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:29:34.850000+08:00","text":"我從當檢察官到當局長，到現在當立委，我長期在第一線接觸跟陪伴這些被害人的家屬，有些家屬是家庭暴力的被害者，有些則是像殺人重案的遺屬，他們常常都會說一句話，他們希望的是，第一個，他們希望法官好好地聽他們把話說完，但是他們常常在法庭上得不到這個機會。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:29:35+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:29:58.750000+08:00","text":"還有，他們知道法官不一定會按照他們想的去判，但至少法官能夠知道他們為什麼心裡這麼痛、為什麼過不了這個坎；還有人說，他不怕開庭，但是怕再遇到殺人犯，他不想再遇到殺人犯或殺人犯的律師在法庭上面，用質疑、用逼問的態度來對待他們。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:29:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:30:04.760000+08:00","text":"所以我的草案其實就是在回應這些被害人他們最深層的需求。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:30:05.285714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:30:13.812500+08:00","text":"還有，我希望能讓被害人能夠真正地說話，不是用書狀也不是用檢察官轉述。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:30:14.208333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:30:29.800000+08:00","text":"我也希望法院必須認真回應這些被害人的論述，我希望被害人在法庭上不只是一個旁觀者，而是真正能夠參與到判決裡面的人，我們必須提升他的權益。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:30:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:30:42.833333+08:00","text":"所以我修法的核心就是被害人要的不只是到法庭上面宣洩他的情緒，而是有三件事，安全、被聽見還有被尊重，我希望他們在法庭上能夠得到這樣的保障。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:30:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:31:07.800000+08:00","text":"安全就是除了人身安全之外，不要再被二次傷害；被聽見就是他們心裡的想法，他們的這些經歷，他們心裡的痛，法官必須要聽到，而且有義務聆聽，而且有義務回應；被尊重是法院必須用判決告訴他，他說的東西法官有沒有採納，法官採納或不採納的理由是什麼，必須要讓被害人知道。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:31:08.380952+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:31:25.636364+08:00","text":"今天既然司法院支持我的提案，所以我要說的是，我希望能完成相關的配套，讓被害人能夠完整地說完、完整地被聽見，而且能夠論述得清楚，而這個配套其實有兩個重點：第一個是隱私權的保護；第二個是陪同權。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:31:27.272727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:31:37+08:00","text":"上個月我在質詢的時候曾經有問到幾個東西，就是被害人主動陳述的時候，陪同制度可不可以予以明文？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:31:37.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:31:38.777778+08:00","text":"還有個資如何強化？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:31:39.263158+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:31:45.846154+08:00","text":"請問一下秘書長，這個部分你們目前有沒有具體的作為或想法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:31:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:32:14.200000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，關於隱私的保護還有陪同的部分，現行法都已經有規定，而且我們也有相關應行注意事項，更要求各法院，尤其是剛剛委員所提到的，當被害人不想碰到某些人，要怎麼去遮蔽、怎麼去隔離，我們都有規定各法院要做到，法律也有規定。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:32:14.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:32:25.740741+08:00","text":"關於剛剛所提的陪同，不只是他的親屬可以陪同，甚至可以有特定的要求，像心理師、社工師，都可以陪同到庭。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:32:26+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:32:35.840000+08:00","text":"謝謝秘書長，但是我要講一個問題，就是實務上面跟法律規定說到的及法官做到的，其實還有滿大一段差距，好，我來跟你說為什麼？","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:32:36+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:32:40.827586+08:00","text":"其實今天我有看到你們回應王世堅委員，就是在個資保護的個案裡面。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:32:41+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:32:54.580645+08:00","text":"你說現行法有規定，就像您剛剛說的，譬如說第二百四十八條之三，或者是第二百七十一條之二，其實都規範得很清楚，要求保護隱私，包括去識別化，這些都有，但是真的有被保護到嗎？","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:32:54.806452+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:33:09.809524+08:00","text":"上個會期在談校園割喉案的時候，我當時也有質詢過您，被害人、死者的爸爸（楊爸爸）曾經公開說：整個訴訟裡面，我家的住址在哪裡，我在哪裡上班，全部都被攤開了。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:33:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:33:14.551724+08:00","text":"所以法律有規定跟實務有沒有做到，其實有很大一段差距。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:33:14.758621+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:33:15.793103+08:00","text":"現在造成了什麼情況？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:33:16+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:33:24.333333+08:00","text":"一個失去兒子的爸爸，每天都在想，傷害我兒子的人今天會不會跑到我家來殺我？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:33:24.527778+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:33:30.296296+08:00","text":"結果我們看到的是，連他的電話、工作地點等等，全部曝光，這個時候就不對了啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:33:30.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:33:37.826087+08:00","text":"你說法律有規定，或者是有再三地教育法官，但是我們看到的結果卻是這樣，所以是不是應該分卷處理？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:33:38+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:33:43.441860+08:00","text":"是不是應該把很多東西在隱匿掉之後，才能夠讓律師閱卷？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:33:43.651163+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:33:46.790698+08:00","text":"這是一直以來我想要強調的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:33:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:03.795918+08:00","text":"還有，你們對國民法官的保護非常非常嚴謹，這個沒有問題，國民法官的所有資料大家都查不到，但是家暴的被害人、性侵的被害人、跟騷的被害人、組織犯罪的被害人，他們被報復的風險難道會低於這些國民法官嗎？","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:04+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:08.965517+08:00","text":"我想他們被報復的風險可能更高，但是我們對他們的保障卻不夠。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:09.172414+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:19.787234+08:00","text":"就這個部分，司法院如果說法律有規定了，但是實務卻是這樣顯現出來，這時就變成是怠惰了，秘書長，再繼續努力改善，好不好？","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:20+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:20.461538+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:20.692308+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:22.076923+08:00","text":"你可以承諾我們嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:22.307692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:28.769231+08:00","text":"沒有問題，跟委員報告，關於楊爸爸那個案件，真的是我們自己民事判決的疏失。","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:38.615385+08:00","text":"我們一直注重刑事判決結果，但因為他有提起損害賠償，而那是民事判決的疏失，當然，我們一定要改過來。","quality":0.605},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:44.727273+08:00","text":"跟秘書長報告，民眾不懂刑事、民事，他只知道自己的東西被公開，好嗎？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:44.727273+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:45.727273+08:00","text":"是、是、是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:47.222222+08:00","text":"秘書長，這部分麻煩你一定要處理。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:47.222222+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:48.222222+08:00","text":"是，我們一定會做到的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:47.444444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:34:51+08:00","text":"好，秘書長，目前我國有陪同制度，對不對？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:34:51.222222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:35:10+08:00","text":"即第二百七十一條之三有規定陪同制度，但是我們現行的陪同制度好像只是流於一個形式，其實我一直很希望我們在處理案件的時候能夠讓被害人自己站出來、主動地把犯罪對他造成的影響說出來，我想這個才是重點。","quality":0.813},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:35:10.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:35:41.775148+08:00","text":"像土城那個毒駕撞死警察的案子，家屬是在法庭上面下跪要求法官判死刑，這個警察的父親劉爸爸說一個人死亡並不是只有一個人死亡，不但他的家庭毀了，他爸爸媽媽的家庭也毀了，然後這個死者太太的爸媽也就是他岳父、岳母的家庭也都毀了，所以他是毀了好幾個家庭。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:35:42.485207+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:35:55.266272+08:00","text":"還有臺南凃明誠與曹瑞傑兩位警察被殺死的那個案子，他的姐姐每一次到法院來都說自己好像在夢裡面一樣，每一分鐘他都可能會昏倒在現場。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:35:55.798817+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:36:04.142012+08:00","text":"我今天要講的是訴訟讓這些被害人長期承受非常大的壓力，所以我才會認為這個陪同制度非常重要。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:36:04.674556+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:36:05.029586+08:00","text":"你看嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:36:05.562130+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:36:08.579882+08:00","text":"像被害人陳述到一半情緒崩潰可不可以暫停？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:36:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:36:12.006711+08:00","text":"有安全疑慮可不可以遠距？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:36:12.207383+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:36:16.020134+08:00","text":"心理師和社工能不能夠坐在旁邊真正地給予支持？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:36:16.421477+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:36:17.424832+08:00","text":"犯保要怎麼銜接？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:36:17.625503+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:36:22.842953+08:00","text":"重大案件在開庭之前有沒有人告訴家屬接下來的程序會怎麼走？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:36:23.444966+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:36:31.271141+08:00","text":"有沒有人協助他們整理過往的主張，而不是法官每一次開庭都要請他一再地陳述？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:36:32.073826+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:36:45.915000+08:00","text":"像那個馬來西亞女大生被殺案，被害人的媽媽每次來臺灣，結果法官要他一次、一次又一次地論述他女兒被強姦殺害的過程，這對父母來講是比殺了他還痛苦啊！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:36:46.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:37:02.608889+08:00","text":"所以這樣的制度有問題，譬如說，是不是可以有人在陳述完畢之後進行整理，法官就不用一再地重複，他可能只需要就犯罪事實調查沒有很清楚的部分再次詢問，不需要整段重新在法庭上面公開再來一遍。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:37:03.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:37:22.678519+08:00","text":"所以我們一直在講我國刑事訴訟制度為什麼一定要用覆審制而不用續審制，因為覆審制搞得所有東西要重新再來一次，所有制度重新再來一次，最嚴謹的是在一審的交互詰問，二審沒有像一審有那麼嚴謹的制度，卻反而可以去否決掉一審的判決。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:37:24.181143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:37:29.950000+08:00","text":"其實我從第一年當立委就一直在說為什麼我國的刑事訴訟不走向續審制而是走覆審制。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:37:31.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:37:45.703077+08:00","text":"非常感謝委員願意支持二審走向續審制，其實剛剛委員提到覆審制在二審造成事實重複的調查，當然法官在訴訟指揮的時候可能不夠體貼，我必須要這樣講。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:37:47.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:38:10.151667+08:00","text":"尤其像剛剛委員所說的陪同到場，老實說，我覺得被害人並不是很清楚，因為我相信沒有人希望被害，沒有很多人知道這個規定，所以我們一再要求法院務必要清楚地告訴被害人他有這些權利，這是我們一直在努力的方向。","quality":0.681},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:38:10.662759+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:38:12.233103+08:00","text":"謝謝，這也是我的一個主軸。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:38:12.375862+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:38:27.043333+08:00","text":"我要跟你說，我認為這是最大的關鍵，就是在被害人把最痛的事情說完之後，法院有義務要用判決告訴他：你的話我聽到了，我的考量是什麼；你心裡的痛我聽到了，我給你的回應是什麼。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:38:27.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:38:33.446667+08:00","text":"而不是永遠就是用「被害人身心受創甚重」那種罐頭式的用語，那個沒有用啦！","quality":0.645},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:38:34.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:38:35.737143+08:00","text":"當事人對那個沒有感覺。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:38:36.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:38:46.440000+08:00","text":"所以我希望訴訟參與制度並不只是讓被害人可以參與而已，而是要讓他真的安全、有尊嚴、能夠完整地參與，這是我希望達成的。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:38:47.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:39:21.557778+08:00","text":"其實還有一個案子，就是我們常常在講的那個得到師鐸獎的女教師被殺案，那位張教授的太太被強姦殺害，被告一直到更四審改判無期徒刑，張教授一路走下來長達10年，他說他看到被告永遠有三個律師在幫他，而他是到二審才知道原來犯保可以協助他請一個律師，他之前完全不知道，他在開庭時當場的感覺就是被一群人欺負，然後國家聘了律師和被告一起欺負他這個悲慘的被害人，他的感覺就是這樣。","quality":0.784},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:39:23.072727+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:39:31.243077+08:00","text":"我一直在想我們的制度把被告保障得這麼完善，但是我們的制度卻忘了被害人。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:39:31.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:39:49.646400+08:00","text":"如果司法還有一點點溫暖，我們應該要留給被害人，而不是毫無保留地留給被告，否則世界就不需要正義了，對於犯錯的人，我們來保護他，對於被害的人，大家一起忘記他，這也不是我們司法人能夠接受的事嘛！","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:39:49.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:39:52.960000+08:00","text":"所以我一直拜託你們要注意這一點。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:39:55.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:39:58.594118+08:00","text":"張教授這10年來一直要告訴法院什麼？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:40:02.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:40:20.060000+08:00","text":"就是他一直覺得法官、法院都沒有跟他說改判無期徒刑的原因是什麼，他一直看不到，也不知道原因，這也是我這一次要修法的緣由，因為我認為法院有義務要告訴大家為什麼輕判了，法院要告訴你：我有聽到你的痛苦。","quality":0.764},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:40:20.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:40:30.320000+08:00","text":"我從來沒有要求法官要依照當事人的要求去判，我從來沒有這樣要求，但是請就當事人的論述加以說明，秘書長，這部分你認不認同？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:40:31.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:41:05.625714+08:00","text":"剛剛委員所提的沒有錯，我們刑事訴訟法向來的走向忽略了量刑辯論，最近這幾年量刑辯論開始被重視，在量刑辯論裡面就是被害人陳述，因為我們的刑事訴訟法是三面：法官、檢察官、辯護人，所以檢察官應該要盡到照護被害人的責任，我們以前把責任放在這邊，就輕忽了在審判程序應該照顧被害人的義務，這是我們一定要做到的。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:41:05.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:41:06.525714+08:00","text":"好，謝謝秘書長的認同。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:41:07.583636+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:41:27.608889+08:00","text":"關於這些事情，針對家屬要求的任何東西，法官至少要告訴家屬：我聽到你的話了、我是怎麼想、我是怎麼判斷，還有最後要告訴家屬自己的說理，這是法官、檢察官該做的事情，所以這個務必要做到。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:41:27.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:42:12.812000+08:00","text":"還有，今天你們對翁曉玲委員的提案有一個疑慮，翁曉玲委員要求把被害人創傷、家庭狀況、心裡的感覺寫在判決書裡面，你們說這會造成一些細節被公開，所以是不妥的，但是我要跟你們報告，我並沒有說你們的想法完全錯誤，但是其實不公開很簡單，像你說公開了這些東西以後，可能有一些細節、個人資料會洩漏，但是你可以去識別化、你可以不公開私密的細節、你可以分卷處理，就是可以用很多方式去解決這個問題。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:42:13.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:42:33.501000+08:00","text":"所以你不能說翁曉玲委員要求把這些東西寫進判決就會讓媒體反覆檢索而造成二次曝光，我覺得有很容易的方式可以解決，我審理過這種案件，也寫過書類，我知道這個要解決很容易，所以我不認為應該用這樣的說法來回復翁曉玲委員的想法。","quality":0.782},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:42:33.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:42:51.083333+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，因為這是在判決裡面，要寫在判決理由裡面就要去識別化，跟各位委員報告，我們常常認為去識別化很容易，其實並不容易，而且現在只要知道前因後果，就可以看出所有的內容。","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:42:51.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:43:14.913333+08:00","text":"所以我們的建議是，當然法官在寫有罪判決、在量刑論述的時候一定要聽取被害人的意見，被害人的陳述中有重要的地方一定要寫在判決裡面，但是委員所提到的是要完全的陳述或者是應該要陳述，我們可能要稍微要保守一點，跟委員做以上的報告。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:43:15.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:43:36.570000+08:00","text":"我們只要上過司法院裁判書類檢索系統就會看到，現在的判決有很多地方都是○○○，一團都是○，並沒有顯示文字，只有當事人可以拿到一個有完整描述的判決書，但是外面拿不到，外面看到的是網路上面已經去識別化後的案子。","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:43:37+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:43:49.800000+08:00","text":"所以我認為這個東西不是問題，我希望你們可以再思考，而不是就那樣回復翁曉玲委員，我從實務上面來看，我不認為這樣回應他是合理的。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:43:52.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:44:13.316000+08:00","text":"因為時間的關係，我希望司法院能夠給出幾個承諾，我希望你們做到兩件事情：第一個，在三個月內提出完整的被害人跟訴訟參與人個資還有安全保護規範，我直接把內容秀在PPT上面，就不再論述；第二個，我希望你們在三個月內提出被害影響陳述、陪同跟支持機制。","quality":0.782},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:44:14.088889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:44:18.186667+08:00","text":"請問你們可以做到這兩個嗎？可以。謝謝。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:44:18.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:44:20.405714+08:00","text":"最後還有30秒，我再講一個問題。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:44:21.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:44:46.850000+08:00","text":"我今天其實講了5個家庭，我在這段時間以來看到這5個案子顯露出我國司法有非常非常多的問題，尤其是對於家屬的那種折磨，像師鐸獎女教師被殺案，被害人已經走了10年，他的先生張教授還在問：我當初在法庭上面的聲音，判決到底寫到哪裡去了？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:44:47.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:44:50.974286+08:00","text":"他看不到，他講出他心裡的痛，可是他在判決裡面看不到。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:44:51.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:44:58.685714+08:00","text":"馬來西亞女大生的媽媽跨海來臺，一次次地講他失去唯一女兒的痛。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:44:58.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:45:12.363077+08:00","text":"我們都有小孩，他跌倒破一個小洞，我就擔心得半死了，結果他女兒被人家殺了、被人家勒死，也被殺了很多刀，對於他心裡的痛，我們必須感同身受。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:45:13.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:45:36.852727+08:00","text":"還有土城毒駕殺警案的被害者家屬在法院裡對法官下跪，希望法官真正理解一個犯罪是摧毀多少人的人生及多少家庭，不是只有一條人命的失去，而是他周邊家人的人生都毀了，法官有沒有去想到這個點？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:45:38.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:45:59.510000+08:00","text":"另外，校園割頸案的那位爸爸，他失去兒子之後，還要擔心殺他孩子的人會不會跑來殺他；臺南那兩個殉職案的家屬一次又一次走進法院，都希望法院能夠給他們一個交代，但是他們到現在都還等不到，還要承受一次又一次去那邊的痛苦。","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:45:59.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:46:08.722500+08:00","text":"所以我真的希望一件事情，對於這些被害人的家屬或被害人，我希望強調這三件事：安全、被聽見及被尊重。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:46:14.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:46:23.030000+08:00","text":"我要讓他們在訴訟參與上面有被聽見的權利、被保護的身分、有人支持的過程及不必要再次受到傷害。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:46:25.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:46:37.208333+08:00","text":"被害人的傷口永久公開，我們不要這樣，我們要的是法院如何看待這個傷口，要永久留下來說理，來告訴大家：我的說理是什麼。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:46:39.514545+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:47:05.090000+08:00","text":"最後跟秘書長報告，有關被害人的訴訟參與，我從當立法委員的第一年開始就一直在做，也一步一步做到了，但是我還是必須要完成最後的下一哩路，就是讓他們能夠安全且有尊嚴的參與，因為我在當立委之前，我心裡的感受是被害人在訴訟中都被遺忘了，所以我一直想要強化這一塊。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:47:05.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:47:14.432000+08:00","text":"請秘書長及各位在場的司法人員想一想被害人家屬承受的痛，而不是只有被告需要被保護。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:47:14.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:47:20.383077+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，委員所提出來的這四項，絕對是我們司法院要努力向前的。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"吳委員宗憲","start":"2026-08-19T09:47:21.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T09:47:23.104444+08:00","text":"好，謝謝秘書長、謝謝各位。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T09:47:23.604444+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T09:47:24.747302+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T09:47:25.047302+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T09:47:28.475873+08:00","text":"謝謝吳宗憲委員、謝謝秘書長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T09:47:28.775873+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T09:47:32.490159+08:00","text":"接下來請陳昭姿委員進行詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}