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士級是專門委員胡士林教育部學生事務及特殊教育司專門委員許惠清"},{"start":1916.09,"end":1931.265,"text":"專門委員陳佩君今年發展署組長蔡君平好非常有朝氣今年發展署科長許紹琴你好"},{"start":1935.94,"end":1950.001,"text":"為了讓大家能夠順利表達意見我們做如下的處理每位貴賓的發言時間6分鐘在第5分鐘時我們會有鈴聲提醒6分鐘結束就會有一個結束的鈴聲"},{"start":1952.481,"end":1978.107,"text":"那專家學者的發言是以簽名先後順序為準現場發言及書面資料立法院會做成紀錄刊登在公報上面在場的立法委員如有發表意見請於時時前來做登記我們也會在會議當中穿插進行並以在場委員登記順序發言那委員如果要登記請到發言台上來登記"},{"start":1980.846,"end":1990.483,"text":"現在先請教育部常務次長朱俊彰就現行規定執行現況還有相關問題提出說明時間5分鐘請"},{"start":1996.617,"end":2017.65,"text":"主席 各位委員 在場各位學者專家 女士先生 大家好今天本人應邀到立法院教育及文化委員會聆聽各位先進的著見 自感榮幸以加緊就本部相關措施提出報告 敬請各位委員及先進指導與支持"},{"start":2018.61,"end":2041.132,"text":"高等教育為國家發展的重要核心高教治理不僅關係到校務運作的品質更是影響學生權益的保障教學研究能量以及社會對於高教的信任更需要建立透明健全的治理機制並持續精進運作的模式才能為師生打造良好的教學環境以及學習環境"},{"start":2042.814,"end":2067.98,"text":"在面对全球产业进入及社会快速变迁的多重冲击之下高教议题如学生自治参与 校长临选制度师生校务参与等面临相关的挑战为了维护学生自治权师生参与校务权益与高教的公共性以下仅就强化学生自治组织校园事务参与保障教师及学生参与校务权益"},{"start":2068.88,"end":2097.819,"text":"以及強化本部監督機制建置多元溝通管道等議題進行說明一在強化學生自治組織校園事務參與部分大學法第33條明文規定大學應輔導學生成立學生會及其他相關自治組織並依學生會請求代收會費同時保障學生出代表出席與學業生活及訂定獎程相關規章之會議以及建立學生"},{"start":2099.701,"end":2117.482,"text":"申訴制度因此學校應扶持校園學生知識發展並保障學生參與校務決策與公共事務學生會的成立目的是為了增進學生在校的學習效果自治能力強化其公民素養理解民主生活之實踐"},{"start":2118.783,"end":2140.34,"text":"學校對於學生自治組織可從輔導者改為協助者的角色必要時提供學生會資源協助讓學生會得以共好角度來參與校務本部青年署訂定的大專校院學生會運作原則確認了學生會在規章的訂定選舉人士選任"},{"start":2142.902,"end":2163.639,"text":"財務管理等運作事項的自主性未來除以行政指導持續引導學校強化學生自主性之外亦將透過各校機校將補助的機制等政策工具促進學校落實由學生自治學生會運作事項又學生對於學校的"},{"start":2164.699,"end":2185.749,"text":"懲處其他措施或決議不符時亦可透過學校的校內的申訴機制提起申訴倘對學校申訴的結果不符可再依法向主管機關就行政主任提起訴願或訴訟以保障學生的受教權益二 在保障教師及學生參與校務"},{"start":2190.702,"end":2206.549,"text":"公立大学校长临选委员会的成员可包含学生及教师代表第15条有关校务会议之规定也明定学生及教师及学生参与校教务会议的相关权益近期"},{"start":2207.629,"end":2229.456,"text":"各界也關注大學行政權限與校務治理的平衡教師團體及學生團體表示這些議題的討論可進一步強化校長遴選或校務會議的決策透明度與正當性為了充分了解各界的需求及意見教育部於2014年舉辦多場高等教育經營與發展的座談會議"},{"start":2230.476,"end":2251.394,"text":"持续与学生团体教师团体及学校代表进行意见交流来凝聚共识对于强化师生对于校务运作的参与以及充分表达意见本部乐见其成并持续与各界进行广泛的交流征询意见以求共识在强化本部监督及建制多元管道"},{"start":2252.955,"end":2270.312,"text":"方面為了確保大學的辦學品質能夠維護學生及社會公共利益本部也透過相關的法令來明定學校在校的透明財務運作等方面的責任來提升自己的校人 如透過大學法師校法等相關資訊公開及財務監督的機制來協助 亦透過高校"},{"start":2275.885,"end":2300.535,"text":"高等私立高級中等以上學校天堂條例來強化辦學困難及財務嚴重惡化的私立學校查爾夫島在溝通機制方面本部也以跨部會進行相關的協助也與大專校院校長會議教師團體學生團體透過完整管道進行充分的溝通以上敬請各位指導"},{"start":2307.409,"end":2335.783,"text":"好 謝謝朱市長的報告說出了教育部目前最新的大學法的一個修正方向好 那我們現在請簽名順序第一位的專家學者全國教育產業總共會的林碩傑副理事長發言那兩邊都可以做發言就方便就好"},{"start":2354.573,"end":2363.718,"text":"主席各位先進大家早安今天立法院這個公聽會主要是琢磨在有關"},{"start":2365.219,"end":2387.561,"text":"大學自治跟校園民主來加以探討那首先我們全校長針對大學法裡面的第9條跟第15條來跟大家做一些報告第一個就是有關大學法第9條主要是有關校長遴選這個部分大學法目前有關校長遴選委員會的組成比例"},{"start":2388.683,"end":2414.623,"text":"目前学校校务会议推选之学校代表是占了全部原额的五分之二我们全教场认为说为了要尊重大学自治的精神我们认为说应该要过半也就是说我们建议学校校务会议推选之学校代表应该要占全部委员的五分之三"},{"start":2415.888,"end":2445.171,"text":"应该要占全部委员的五分之三而不是现在的五分之二那这五分之三里面我们又再建议了教师代表不得少于其中的三分之二就是这五分之三里面教师代表又不得少于其中的三分之二各位临选委员会如果能透过这种方式来降低具有行政职的教职员的比例的话那么"},{"start":2446.001,"end":2473.642,"text":"可避免特定人士或者是校长透过行政聘用来掌握特定票数而且如果我们增加实际增加教室的比例实质的代表人数的话将可避免临选委员会的结果跟学校这个初选的结果差异过大那这样就无法反映真实的意见了"},{"start":2474.892,"end":2501.439,"text":"另外就是為了防止外部力量或者是政治力量不當介入大學校長臨選而且要保障學術自由跟大學自治這邊我們建議說刪除教育部或者是地方政府臨派的代表我們建議刪除教育部或地方政府臨派代表此外就是在公立大學"},{"start":2503.045,"end":2530.899,"text":"遴選的這個事項裡面它是大學自治很重要的一個項目所以它的有關它的組織運作辦法其實應該是由大學校會來定定的而不是由外界來定甚至說大學校會定的遊戲規則跟學校的遴選委員會定的遊戲規則兩者又不一甚至兩者互相衝突矛盾那這個是很奇怪的如果是這樣的話恐怕會製造不但干預遴選的空間"},{"start":2533.41,"end":2555.847,"text":"第二个是有关第15条有关校务会议部分校务会议中具有行政职的当然委员常常又于行政伦理而无法客观的表达意见为了避免这种现象并且使校务会议的决策更为周延我们建议教师代表应该从现在总数的二分之一提高为三分之二"},{"start":2557.204,"end":2584.122,"text":"提高为三分之二另外就是校会议代表不应该是只有教授副教授我们认为说校内的助理教授还有弱势族群譬如说原住民等应该有保障席次另外就是学生代表应该有如果选上之后应该要接受议事会规则会议规范等相关法规的培训提升参与校会的能力跟品质除了第九条跟第十五条之外另外我们提到有关第十九条"},{"start":2585.734,"end":2612.337,"text":"大學自治是為了保障學術自由那學術自由的核心是大學教師的研究發表和講學自由但是這個只有在教師的工作權受到充分保障的時候學術自由才能受到保障所以如果大學可以任意訂定教師的停聘或是不續聘的條件那教師面對不合理壓力的時候當然也難以堅守所謂的學術自由"},{"start":2613.783,"end":2632.976,"text":"各位,大学自治的基础在于校园教师能够充分表达意见,教师团体能够有效运作,并且能够代表弱势的教师发声,而且大学有良好的沟通跟决策机制,而且要能避免校方对教师不当的要求。"},{"start":2633.988,"end":2659.571,"text":"但是目前多数的学校并不存在上面这些所有条件往往由校方行政权决定一切用不合理的规定来压榨教师并且用大学自治的名义回避监督这种校园专制现象不单是教师个人的损伤更是对校园民主还有学术自由的其伤"},{"start":2660.663,"end":2684.697,"text":"教師法裡面對教師工作權有一定的保障所以不應該對大學教師的有差別待遇而減少他的保障那教師在訂定聘約的時候一定是弱勢的那一方如果透過聘約來排除教師法的適用那教師法能夠調穩就形同具穩各位升等不應該用來當作一個"},{"start":2686.844,"end":2709.543,"text":"所谓教师的聘用的一个依据或是说当作评价教师研究成果的唯一的标准大学法第十九条排除了教师法某些对工作权的重要保障对学校空白授权弹性过大成为许多教师不当要求的根源我们建议各位我们建议第十九条全条删除"},{"start":2710.609,"end":2730.914,"text":"我們建議第19條全條刪除來保障所謂的大學自治跟校園民主以上 謝謝好 謝謝林碩傑副理事長我們現在請眷教總的楊亦菲副秘書長發言"},{"start":2735.717,"end":2751.635,"text":"委員各位先進大家早安感謝委員安排大缺乏的修法的公聽會學長總代表全國的教師以及我們的會員來表達一些立場針對大缺乏的部分我想第一個要談的就是這次改革的訴求就是校園會議應該要公開透明"},{"start":2752.376,"end":2780.853,"text":"我們在這邊呼籲在修法的過程當中校務會議裡面的教師代表應該要扣除兼任行政教師的身分也就是他是兼任行政某部分他也是代表了行政職務所以應該讓專任的教師能夠占多數還有第二個要提的是學生的代表其實應該要數量要能夠再提高因為我們在談大學治理的部分學生也是非常重要的一塊所以學長總在這邊呼籲學生代表數其實也應該要提高再來會談到私校"},{"start":2781.573,"end":2798.743,"text":"合併的過程當中現行的法令值授權給董事會同意即可但是因為私校的董事會目前比較缺乏所謂的公共監督而合併是攸關全校師生我們建議應該要經校務會議同意通過才能進行這樣的一個整併那第二個要提出的是勞動條件的保障"},{"start":2799.423,"end":2812.379,"text":"熊小總過去在中小學裡面一直倡議就是教師評鑑對於教育的現場來說某部分是一個災難那這個災難其實在大學端已經實現很久所以我們其實公開呼籲這一次的修法應該讓教師專業輔導系統去取代教師評鑑"},{"start":2815.903,"end":2832.713,"text":"畢竟現在有很多我們常聽很多的私校會以評鑑來要求教室要配合一些奇怪的事物包含他們的補助數量啊招生人數啊社群的按讚數等都會列入教室評鑑的一個評比這對老師的勞動條件保障是相當不好的那再來是"},{"start":2833.773,"end":2859.766,"text":"監督教育部其實主動公布了大專兼任教師他終點費不得低於公校但其實大專的治理同時也包含公校與私校但在私校與大專的學校卻沒有同等的規定這個對私校老師來說其實也是一種不公平所以我們也呼籲其實在私校老師的兼任終點費他應該也不得低於公校第三點要談的是私校治理的公共化"},{"start":2861.286,"end":2882.692,"text":"現行的相關法令裡面 私下捐款可以去抵稅那主管機關其實也應該要有監督之責因為過去常發生很多黑心的企業他以教育之名去行逃稅之事法令能不能授權主管機關去監督這些稅務跟經程的流向確保這些錢跟財物是用在我們的教育身上是非常重要那第四點 全國總統要提出的是"},{"start":2883.852,"end":2908.261,"text":"過去我們常聽到因為少子化很多的一些學校他會用一些錯誤的名額來爭取國家的補助款甚至曾經紅擊國際社會的用產學專班讓這些來台就學的學生打黑工他都是損壞台灣國際教育形象的重大案件所以期待在大學法修法的過程當中應該要有一個相關的制度來"},{"start":2909.822,"end":2933.719,"text":"避免這樣的一個現象再次發生第五要談的是怎麼確保私校退場學生的權益大學把修法之後教育部有沒有辦法可以主動協助或監督在治理上有困難的學校因為老師跟學生往往都是最後才知道學校要被整併的那一端所以他們的意見基本上已經沒有辦法傳達這對於整個所謂的"},{"start":2935.78,"end":2938.908,"text":"私生治理還有教育的主體其實都是一種傷害"},{"start":2940.971,"end":2966.761,"text":"第二點其實我們要談的是也是大家其實常常忘記的就是這一次的修法請社會大眾也請教育部一定要正視大學常遇的性平意識跟相關機制我們必須說可能大學是全台灣教育學士裡面最沒有性平意識的一個常遇其實大家仔細盤點可能社會也忘得很快2003年中部某大學教授對學生施以性騷擾爆出來"},{"start":2967.882,"end":2988.263,"text":"同年度也有台大的李興教授也是用性騷擾但是他誘導學生成為交往關係東華大學的某女老師遭同校的教授性侵甚至到2005年師大的足球案以及2005年張世大四位輔資相關教授的性騷案這些案子在社會上都曾經只出現過一兩天然後就沒有人在討論"},{"start":2990.305,"end":3008.176,"text":"前陣子更傳出了國立台北教育大學已婚的教授跟現場的老師校長學生發生婚外情的關係那以至於到前教育部次長台大教授的性平的爭議案件我們都一再看到大學的場域應該是作為國家治理一個很重要的地方可是"},{"start":3009.096,"end":3024.873,"text":"性品或是相關的學術道德我們必須講台灣的大學其實還落後太多太多這些案件往往被重重提起最後相關的程序就是當事人很容易退休甚至是請辭然後隔了一兩天就沒有了可是同樣的案件對比在"},{"start":3025.854,"end":3039.169,"text":"大專以下的場域各位可以看到這些老師不是被射死就是完全的工作場域被阻斷那我們不是說對國中小老師太嚴而是大學作為一個自治他應該用最高的道德標準來檢視那這些"},{"start":3041.271,"end":3056.002,"text":"甚至我們可以稱這次大學是一個全市性平的重災區也包含了部分論文指導的私生關係的霸凌這些東西都藏在大學自治裡面被包裹著一層黑布卻沒有被社會看見"},{"start":3056.983,"end":3081.921,"text":"我們期待提高學生跟教師的參與能讓大學的場域回到一個乾淨而且能夠作為台灣教育完整示範的場域而不是用一個大學的自治然後無限上綱這些錯誤的程序去損害所謂師生的權益我們也期待台灣大學的修法能夠讓台灣的學術自由能夠讓台灣的師生治理能夠朝向一個更好的方式以上是全教總的幾點建議謝謝大家"},{"start":3086.772,"end":3091.269,"text":"好 謝謝楊亦菲副秘書長我們現在請范雲委員發言"},{"start":3099.419,"end":3119.133,"text":"感謝召委現場我們有非常多包含公私立大學協進會的理事長還有公私立大學的校長任校長趙校長還有我們的學生青年代表有非常多位還有我們的工會的代表們大家早安"},{"start":3119.953,"end":3136.626,"text":"我是立委范雲首先謝謝我們那個召委安排這一場大學法的修法公聽會那我是從上一屆開始就跟我們的很多的團體一起推動大學法的修法"},{"start":3137.186,"end":3156.904,"text":"那上一届我们教育委员的跨党派共识就是要提升学生在校会中的参与权益那当时很幸运的当时也得到教育部当时的次长的支持不过很可惜后来因为沟通不足所以上一届并没有办法通过那这一届呢"},{"start":3157.664,"end":3186.844,"text":"就是非常多的委员也非常的关心大学法我自己也尝试提出一个比较完整的版本我的版本已经一读通过待会会印给大家欢迎大家参考在这个过程中我也看到其实我们在大学法的改革要推动除了保障师生权益之外学校的行政管理阶层也有看到大学法有些不应该管那么多"},{"start":3187.344,"end":3216.141,"text":"就是教育部都是依照大學法來跟大學互動有些不需要管的也應該可以放寬那當然需要有底線的部分是哪些那也需要更多的討論那今天呢除了跟大家講一下就是之前我們的努力之外那也要跟大家講就是2022年當時是有學生全版出教育委員會那2024年那後來我們也納入了教師方面的觀點"},{"start":3217.562,"end":3237.828,"text":"最近我所提的版本也有跟多位校長還有大學的校長主管教授學生會團體有多方諮詢希望這個版本真的能夠一起讓大家真正邁入21世紀而且可能要應對的是未來20年的大學狀況為什麼"},{"start":3239.668,"end":3254.697,"text":"因為從上一次大規模修法到現在2005年到現在真的是20年了所以現場有校長在也有主管在大家可以想像20年後校長不會是現在的校長學生可能也"},{"start":3256.659,"end":3273.554,"text":"那天跟我我的版本有100位學生會長聯署當天好幾位一起來感謝他們支持我的三大方向好幾位發言的時候都告訴我們說現在的學生會長告訴我們說2005年是他們出生的那一年"},{"start":3274.655,"end":3301.486,"text":"也就是說我們現在要修的版本其實為了下一個世代那希望這個角度可以讓大家暫時跳脫自己現在的位置能夠想的是未來的校長未來的學生未來的教師怎麼樣才能夠有一個更開放更能夠保障大家那教學品質跟教育品質的一個大學法我想"},{"start":3301.806,"end":3328.794,"text":"到時候的教育部對不對真正實行的時候可能次長也不是我們現在我的意思是說都要好多的年都不是我們現在了那所以我想從這個角度來看就不會糾結在現在大家覺得修法之後是不是師生的監督更多那大家擔心是不是校務會議會被癱瘓都可以務實的來討論我相信師生跟行政主管沒有人希望"},{"start":3329.654,"end":3345.25,"text":"修改了之後校務會一癱瘓然後大學不會是一個更好的大學所以我的主張就是開放彈性新高校那開放很重要彈性很重要可是它要確保高校的品質比現在更好那就是要讓師生的參與能夠增加"},{"start":3349.414,"end":3373.07,"text":"所以我的版本三大方向刚刚讲了开放弹性新高教强化师生权益还有完善治理跟监督的机制如果待会拿不到版本的话也可以跟我办公室要也谢谢刚刚讲到的有破百位学生会长联署还有二十多位议长联署相挺要修大学法"},{"start":3373.49,"end":3402.081,"text":"那什么叫开放弹性新高教其实教育部那个法令真的太久没有改包含我们都知道很多的国家他们现在看到AI时代的来临很多的时候学生未必要完成大学学位他可能在中间对人生的方向有一些迟疑可是呢他如果休学离开那现在都有休学年限的限制我们希望能够"},{"start":3403.181,"end":3419.473,"text":"給予他一個副學士修滿兩年那大學現在都在推動終身學習那他今天如果是輔大畢業或者是就是正大畢業正大修兩年那為什麼已經是終身學習了不能讓他只要拿到"},{"start":3419.853,"end":3445.769,"text":"副学士的学位终身可以回来完成学位那这样子就让学生不需要就是不断地延长休业的期限或者是他不想要念的时候强迫他回来然后就是浪费了这个高教的资源跟机会就只是要一张文凭就是混毕业所以我想大学学制的改革也是这一波我们可以讨论的所以我的版本有增加大学治理的弹性"},{"start":3446.529,"end":3472.447,"text":"包含教育实验单位行政主管的资格专业发展制度的部分还有毕业学分跟学期周数应该由大学制定这点教育部应该都不敢放宽可是你可以看到不管是美国澳洲德国没有一个国家的大学毕业学分跟周数没有一点弹性的我想这部分那当然"},{"start":3473.428,"end":3493.412,"text":"如何增訂公司校合併的彈性讓它有更多的誘因又能保障師生的權益也是我的版本重視的最後提升高等教育的資源應該是我做一個關心高教的我還是覺得我們目前給高等教育的資源不夠多這是可以努力的"},{"start":3493.972,"end":3510.873,"text":"強化師生的權益這上一屆我們其實就討論過了今天就不再講那我的部分比較特別的是針對學生會有個學生會專章我想這部分學生會我們如果跟世界百大比的話台灣學生會擁有的權益真的是少得可憐"},{"start":3511.474,"end":3535.51,"text":"所以不要說學生不關心學生自治是因為目前的學生會還是在權益上像一個家家酒他的參與並沒有辦法改善他自身的情況我們從師大的那個強迫抽血案學生會長一直站出來可是卻不到學校的校方的重視你可以看到學生權益在臺灣真的需要更多的保障"},{"start":3536.39,"end":3554.2,"text":"使如何完善校長遴選強化公正第三方的監督資訊公開這個都是也謝謝上週教育部的回覆對修法持一個開放的態度我也會持續跟各界溝通也希望教育部能夠盡快提出教育部的版本"},{"start":3554.54,"end":3570.311,"text":"那競速一起修法回應各界的期待那再一次已經20年沒有修了謝謝朝委我們現在是為了未來的20年下一個世代都不會是我們現場的這些人那我們如何能夠讓高教有更好的品質"},{"start":3571.072,"end":3593.752,"text":"要不然大家在国教的时候这么的努力家长这么的关心进入高教之后再也没有人关心公私立大学的品质非常的可惜因为那是这些成年人他们都是有公民的权利可以公投的宝贵的青春那要给他怎么样一个值得的教育以上谢谢好 谢谢范语委员"},{"start":3595.957,"end":3619.286,"text":"請私立科技大學院校院協進會鄭道明理事長發言主席還有這個今天各位與會的這個學生大家好大家早安"},{"start":3622.263,"end":3650.806,"text":"針對這次公聽會我想在之前已經有很多單位包括委員們提出不同的大學法修改的一個版本那麼我們協會也對我們所有的會員學校針對這些修改的版本請他們發表這個意見高見那麼在這幾個裡面大家第一個大家對促進校園的民主然後讓學生參與的這個程度教室參與的程度"},{"start":3651.426,"end":3678.803,"text":"的增加大家支持的一個態度但是也要考量各個不同學校它的一個大小學生數還有老師的數不一樣這裡面的一些目前外面的版本的一些想法我們的學會我們這個協會的會員也提出不同的看法第一個就是說提到就是說"},{"start":3680.524,"end":3703.937,"text":"未兼行政主管職務的人數要以不低於這個這個少於教師代表人數三分之二為原則那不管這原則有多少那目前跟各位報告在我們學會裡面的這一個會員的學校老師數呢小於100的這個大概有21%"},{"start":3706.138,"end":3723.799,"text":"那我這邊舉一個例子,譬如說我們有一個學校,這個學校大概在60人左右,那麼它的行政單位跟學術單位,特別是學術單位的院長還有系主任,這些都必須要是教師來擔任主管,那這樣就有30位了。"},{"start":3724.62,"end":3750.817,"text":"如果再加上二级主管也是由教师担任各位想想看全校只有58位教师含校长至少超过30位所以要到达一个很高的比例以不兼任行政教师来进入教师会当教师的代表在不同的学校它是有它的困难度的所以要这边跟各位说明"},{"start":3752.11,"end":3774.118,"text":"第二個大家普遍的反應就是說對於學生參與的代表這個比例增加大家也是支持的但是他們同時也想到就是說那是不是相對的減少教師跟職員他一個代表的比例跟人數的降低學生當然他們的權利能夠表達這個對學校來講是相當好"},{"start":3777.719,"end":3804.976,"text":"但是對於長期在學校經營而且要待很久了的這群人當他們的這個比例降低的時候是不是也需要再商榷所以對於目前來講我們支持提高但提高這個部分還需要大家多少這是大家一起的共識第三個會員反映比較多的地方是有關於私校的一個辦學"},{"start":3806.417,"end":3820.748,"text":"私校的辦學就是因為它在很多地方它特別具有效率這個效率有時候它的辦學建構在董事會當時在創校的時候對於這個學校它的一個理念"},{"start":3821.849,"end":3844.961,"text":"那這樣的一個理念要落實很重要的就是校長他本身他的學士才能跟這樣理念的一個認同他是有這樣治校的一個本事那目前來講有提出這些改革的版本是想要把這個私校校長遴選的一些模式已經在這個特別是遴選委員會代表的組成已經跟"},{"start":3845.481,"end":3873.259,"text":"比較像公立大學的方式目前私校是根據私校法的方式由法人董事會來組成遴選委員會來選出心目中好的能夠治校的一個校長我們這些會員學校其實對於是不是要往公立學校這個方面這樣稍微靠近組成遴選委員會他們是比較持保留的態度"},{"start":3874.019,"end":3895.197,"text":"大概這三個面向我們希望能夠代表私立科技大學校院協定會讓我們立法的委員們還有教育部的長官代表能夠知道我想這樣也許能夠保障我們私校在很多地方辦學特色是可以跟公立大學不一樣的以上報告"},{"start":3898.854,"end":3922.128,"text":"好 謝謝鄭道明理事長代表磁力科技大學院校發言那現在請社團法人中華學生自治協會盧俊穎理事發言等一下也可以說張曉涵委員請從下一個生意集會"},{"start":3926.482,"end":3948.849,"text":"好 感謝主席 然後感謝立法院的邀請及在場各位先進 大家好我先做個簡單的自我介紹我目前擔任的是中華學生知識協會的理事然後今天很榮幸可以用這個身份來現場聆聽各位然後跟各位前輩探討大學法修法的建議同時我還有另外一個身份是目前一手市立大專院校的學生代表"},{"start":3950.523,"end":3965.451,"text":"然後我也是來自南部的小孩然後是學生自治的第一線然後我想我可以以本會理事及學生代表的身份針對學生自治的現況提出一些見解"},{"start":3967.352,"end":3987.7,"text":"我想先針對影響學生知識地位最相關的條文就是來自於大學法內文的規定就是學校應輔導學生成立由選舉產生之學生會及其他相關知識的組織我對目前來說的話這個條文它應該著重的點在於說輔導兩個字到底說輔導兩個字它的範圍到底是多大它的權限應該多大"},{"start":3994.724,"end":4010.318,"text":"因為他輔導兩個字的話是直接授權學校介入學生事務的權利但是在如此模糊的空間的話學生代表在捍衛學生誌的時候將會面臨到一定的難題大學法內文對學生代表的保障是少之又少"},{"start":4012.032,"end":4029.306,"text":"大部分是交給各校去制定但是條文的制定它已經很多年了學生代表的處境卻越發困難例如使用空間及財務自主的問題其實往很多學校去看學校在處理學生自治組織的空間往往就是有就好了"},{"start":4029.986,"end":4052.553,"text":"不考慮是否能夠使用及地理位置是否方便及是否的夠用觀察起來的話跟各位報告大概會有四種情況第一種是擁有獨立寬敞且適合辦公及學生洽工的活動空間但這種事情的話縱觀全國大眾院校其實是少之又少的第二個擁有獨立空間但地理位置偏遠且不宜辦公的環境"},{"start":4053.837,"end":4072.313,"text":"第三種是無獨立空間辦公室與其他社團或團體共用之場地第四種以上皆無學生會沒有運作空間更有勝者只提供堆放雜物的倉庫放一張桌子兩張摺疊椅給予學生會就說有提供學生會獨立運作的空間"},{"start":4073.214,"end":4097.423,"text":"但學生代表在爭取應有之空間時無法受到條文的保障我想這是我們需要調整的地方如果沒有學生會可以運作空間的話那我們彈劾學生自治再來大學法修法內文的時候裡面也沒有保障學生會的財務自主性只有提到學校應依學生會之請求代收會費我們先不論請求兩個字是下對上"},{"start":4098.843,"end":4115.321,"text":"可能會矮化學生自治組織的地位文中只有規範學校應代收會費卻沒有保障學生會費再交由學生會自主管理我想這已違背當初學生會費繳交同學的初衷因為到頭來學生會費的決定權還是在學校手上"},{"start":4116.297,"end":4144.526,"text":"再來目前關於校長遴選委員會學生代表席次之分配情形全國並無統一標準即使是在公立大學也無共識分配給學生代表席次最普遍的話就是一席而已學生身為學校的一份子他應該在校長遴選委員會及學校務會議上他都應該佔有一定部分的席次不然的話他無法為學生謀取一些福祉一些福利以及捍衛學生的權利"},{"start":4146.046,"end":4169.732,"text":"學生代表成為在各方利益分配下被犧牲的弱勢眾上所述本會認為說需要五項措施可以供各位代表參考一 明定學生會費應全權交由學生會自主管理除得學生自治組織要求外義務應代收幫忙"},{"start":4170.572,"end":4198.16,"text":"代收會費外不得干預學生會經費運作及相關硬性財務之保管二保障學生自治組織空間獨立且可運作三不管公司立校長臨選委員會或校務會議的代表學生代表是席次應載於大學法中明定其產生方式且應公平公正公開且經由學生自行辦理直接選舉或經學生自治組織推派學生代表出席"},{"start":4199.605,"end":4219.624,"text":"同時 明定相關的鼓勵機制以鼓勵學生參與校務會議及校長遴選鞏固學生參與校務之權益實現校園民主拒絕遴選黑箱四 校務會議及所有學生有關學生代表之委員會因明定或特定方式載明與會代表提案之權利而"},{"start":4220.879,"end":4247.271,"text":"所提案之议案或决议除规定应于保障之隐私之议案或事件之外其余经去识别化应积极主动公告于全校师生学校应特别增设监督校务之进行之委员会且主席不得为学校主管或特定议案利害关系人其中应考量的是学生代表及校外委员的席次以上谢谢"},{"start":4252.78,"end":4268.375,"text":"好 謝謝盧靜穎女士的發言我們現在請何明果先生他是慈力大學校園協進會的理事長下一位請林明彥教授準備"},{"start":4269.401,"end":4294.35,"text":"主席各位貴賓我在這邊非常高興有這個機會代表私立大學就有這個大學法修法做一些說明首先我們要支持就是支持私立科技大學曾道明校長所講的其實私立科技大學跟私立大學都是私立大學我們大概總共加起來的學校大概有目前看有85家大概是全部大學的一半以上"},{"start":4295.51,"end":4323.985,"text":"在这边我们把我们的一些会员学校在讨论了后归纳一些大的方向来跟各位说明首先就是要强调在大学法修法的时候我们要注意到大学制度相关法律的修正应遵循宪法之精神尤其关于大学制度属于宪法第11条讲学自由之基本权保障范围经司法院解释各有其重要性第二点要权责相符"},{"start":4324.945,"end":4338.677,"text":"學校的各種組織架構與相互作用的時候應該注意到權責的相符例如校務會議代表制組成雖應具多元代表性但是權責負擔在成員比例上不成比例應該避免因為這個"},{"start":4341.519,"end":4364.952,"text":"大學尤其是私立大學它的經營是跟公立大學是不一樣的我們由董事會出資所以當做了一些決定以後對於學校的經營或是方向有了什麼重大的改變的時候校會代表並沒有負責並不需要負責有權利但是必須要負責這個應該要避免第三點落實民主大學法相關的修正落實民主而不是民粹"},{"start":4367.253,"end":4395.002,"text":"第四點就是公私而言公私立大學的建立和組成方式完全不同私立大學依私校法則鼓勵私人興學的本職即以董事會之意助而興學則應與公立大學的組織作用與作用之規範有所區別私立大學尤其是私立大學校長受董事會的指派或者是選舉有一個辦學的宗旨這個辦學的宗旨就是"},{"start":4396.102,"end":4399.648,"text":"由這個這個是董事會賦予的大學校長"},{"start":4402.098,"end":4426.997,"text":"這個盡力的去完成跟這個公立大學有點不同尊重專業一如法律財務相關的委員會的組成應具有專業力並不是大家用投票來決定的財務像我們財務也有會計的這些會計師的這種審查所以這種東西也不是靠大家來投票決定的那對於長期跟短期的這個策略其實也不是"},{"start":4428.758,"end":4448.706,"text":"少数人可以决定的第六个国际的趋势国大学的整体治理参照国际上如何尊重大学自治的相关规范与做法第七个是前瞻发展大学法制修正应具有发展前瞻性那比如说AI发展对大学的组织规程与治理及具挑战性是应该"},{"start":4450.207,"end":4459.078,"text":"鬆綁大學這個規範大學的主要的處事或教務處總務處是不是只涉及基本的一些組織其餘的處事可以鬆綁"},{"start":4461.497,"end":4465.1,"text":"在這次的大學法修正草案能夠更全面回應高校體系的多元需求部分條文在治理架構上應有調整的空間那若能"},{"start":4482.975,"end":4501.558,"text":"更细致的区分公私立大学制度设计不同将有助于维护宪法保障大学制度也能强化私立高教在国家发展中的关键角色本会一向支持高教改革盘改革兼具周延与前瞻对于当前社会关注的议题"},{"start":4502.299,"end":4517.711,"text":"建議各界以更細膩的視角討論讓制度設計更具彈性貼近我國高校的多元實況我們誠摯期待高校各方的利害關係人重新展開對話與合作共同推動一步"},{"start":4520.113,"end":4548.865,"text":"体现多元促进卓越的永续的大学法让台湾的高等教育开创更有希望的未来我刚刚也在呼应政校长讲的其实大学有各种形态有大有小还有不同的目标像小的学校一个小的学校学生人数也很少教师人数也很少但是已经塞进来的所有的部会是完全一样的所有的组织一级单位是一样多"},{"start":4550.145,"end":4576.191,"text":"譬如說有的學校有兩三萬人他有七八百個老師那有的學校只有兩三千人就一百多位老師那這個組織的一級單位二級單位的一級單位是完全一樣的所以整個就一個學校一百多個老師就十幾個一級單位他就一級主管他還有更多的二級單位所以整個學校的這種架構跟一個學校有兩萬多人有七八百老師"},{"start":4577.236,"end":4600.516,"text":"那个完全是不一样的所以对于这些刚刚讲的这些大型的架构其实你要针对个别这个学校的特性给他们各自的这个努力所以还是应该就是说与其在那边做细部的各项规定应该朝着这个松绑放宽还有大学尊重大学这个自主的这个方向来做这个修法以上谢谢"},{"start":4607.008,"end":4633.834,"text":"好 我們謝謝林明果理事長的發言現在請林明彥全國私校產業工會的教授發言主席還有各位與會的專家學者以及我們部會的官員大家好"},{"start":4634.984,"end":4654.009,"text":"首先我代表全國私校產業工會來參與這樣一個公聽會,本人覺得非常榮幸。首先我們先介紹一下,一方面是私校產業工會的一個會員代表,第二個本人是景文科技大學的一個老師。"},{"start":4655.45,"end":4667.345,"text":"本人擔任過景文科技大學教師會兩任四年的理事長我經常詢問給教育部因為我們所有的老師都必須要負起監督學校的責任"},{"start":4668.804,"end":4693.553,"text":"這樣才能夠使得學校行政進行一個正向的一個發展我們景文科技大學也是全國唯一一所私立大專校院和學校訂定團體協約的學校我們教師的師資 薪資 任教時數以及各方面的終點會都是有合約保障"},{"start":4694.679,"end":4718.535,"text":"所以我們大概每兩年就會進行一次團體協約這也是所有工會人員與會工會人員都必須要努力的方向首先簡單介紹第二點呢我針對這次公聽會的一個重點放在校長遴選剛剛有幾位校長上來花言本人是參加校長遴選失敗的一個在最近才發生"},{"start":4719.52,"end":4743.682,"text":"那我非常感謝我們劉委員能夠提出在校長臨選這一塊的一個與會臨選代表的一個修正本人在初選時呢幾乎就被做掉了因為呢代表的產生雖然本校號稱叫公益董事但是他們在教師代表臨選裡頭做了一些小動作"},{"start":4746.461,"end":4763.676,"text":"超乎各位想像譬如說選出教師會代表並不是以最高票一次成為教師代表而是只要得到一票就可以成為教師代表這樣子他就可以去控制教師代表的一個人選所以說這裡針對校長您選這一塊"},{"start":4769.281,"end":4793.259,"text":"本人強烈主張必須經過校務會議這是一個非常良善的一個發展方向尤其是學生的自治代表我們學生自治代表是以校友會的會議代表這是一個非常好玩的一個現象並不是以現任學生這是第二點有關於校長典選的部分本人相當支持留學員的一個修法的一個方向"},{"start":4794.019,"end":4821.426,"text":"第三點要跟各位報告的就是本會因為是具有法人身分所以我們遇到問題經常會請問給部裡頭所以即使是經常會收到我們教育教師會的來文說明一些在學校行政上必要改善的一個方向我也非常鼓勵與會的工會代表必要鼓勵老師積極組成教師會或是學生會積極參與這樣子"},{"start":4823.787,"end":4847.709,"text":"而不是一方一直苛責不離頭沒有去進行監督因為我們可以了解學校教師學生人數這麼多非常非常難以去監管尤其事情這麼多需要靠老師學生積極參與效務最後一點要跟大家報告幾位校長提到"},{"start":4849.009,"end":4869.69,"text":"學校大小型態會影響到消費的組成我在這邊跟校長報告我們是教師比例而非絕對數目學校就算剩下3000人你的行政人員基本上在實際的運作上都不會有那麼多的行政人員"},{"start":4871.111,"end":4896.022,"text":"因為他是一個會用的支出所以說呢一定的教師比例以及學生比例是應該被保障的才能夠使得我們整個消費的運作的運作正常以上謝謝好謝謝林明彥教授對大學法修法的這樣的支持我們現在請葛如軍委員發言"},{"start":4909.977,"end":4921.36,"text":"謝謝主席安排今天的大學法修法公聽會也謝謝各位與會的專家學者代表不吝表達寶貴的意見對於大學法的修法"},{"start":4922.793,"end":4944.646,"text":"本席認為最重要的是藉由此次重新檢視大學法的機會強化對於教職原生權益的保障首先按照大學法第21條等相關的規定大專院校應建立教師評鑑制度目的是在協助教師教學專業的發展"},{"start":4946.167,"end":4967.619,"text":"改善教学的品质然而自相关法规施行以来行政权逐渐介入教学与研究的决策削弱教学以及教授治校的实质运作深等与人事决策逐渐被行政权左右"},{"start":4969.149,"end":4995.521,"text":"內省干預外省外省干預內省嚴重影響學術生態與教師自主且目前傳統升等制度偏重研究論文的點數更重視它的量而不一定能夠很好的評估它的值忽略了教學社會服務與跨領域的貢獻"},{"start":4997.065,"end":5015.827,"text":"缺乏多元评价的机制也限制了教师职涯发展的多样性与多元化此外根据监察院调查报告指出部分教师长期停留助理教授的阶段"},{"start":5017.222,"end":5040.764,"text":"形成萬年助理教授的現象這是全世界絕無僅有甚至以評鑑條文規定教師替學校募集經費者予以加分在部分私立大學資源有限評鑑壓力升等制度更為嚴苛的地方出現"},{"start":5042.386,"end":5069.113,"text":"或者規定教師實施義務教學或者未知領超售終點費者予以加分形同以評鑑制度逼迫教師自我剝削這個可能屢見不鮮更有甚者部分大學為了節省人事成本刻意以評鑑未過為理由"},{"start":5070.393,"end":5093.845,"text":"左手对教师做出不续聘的决议右手又想以特定的计划或短期聘用的专案教师模式要留下这个老师继续开课我想在影片前面看到的老师很多年轻教师或许都心有戚戚"},{"start":5095.151,"end":5112.836,"text":"我都已经被不续聘了为什么学校还邀请我转任专案教师呢这样子专案教师的制度遭到滥用沦为学界免洗筷的机制非常令人寒心也非常令人痛心"},{"start":5113.84,"end":5127.656,"text":"對於專案教師非教非勞既非教師又非勞工的艱難處境監察院早在民國112年就對教育部提出糾正"},{"start":5128.857,"end":5147.062,"text":"直指教育部放任大學大量以專案教師長期替代編制內專任教師的員額為全盤積極調查及引導改善政策評估及檢討機制複製缺乳這四個字是監察院使用的背離政策目的"},{"start":5147.802,"end":5174.122,"text":"部分专案教师任职一校多年竟未获公平转任编制内专任教师的机会其工作及劳动权益就未获保障而且该部也就是教育部对于各校因成本考量大量聘用专案教师以及工作环境薪酬显不合理之情形置若罔闻这是监察院所提的"},{"start":5174.722,"end":5202.747,"text":"这也跟许多的教师在校内感受到的情境完全吻合然而教育部对此非但没有严以制度鼓励学校将专案教师转为正式编制人员却粗暴地向校方提出上限令也就是教育部竟然没有改进还要帮助学校去维护作战吗"},{"start":5204.218,"end":5226.948,"text":"粗暴的向校方寄出上限令也就是以掃聘一名專案教師給10萬塊的方式企圖令學校加速解聘專案教師免洗完了就丟了這種方式企圖令學校來加速這種負面的作業"},{"start":5228.752,"end":5243.946,"text":"非常令人寒心更令人擔憂的是即便教育部祭出重賞然而數字會縮化根據統計大專院校專案教師的占比仍然是106年的4.85%提高到113年的6.64%並未見到顯著的改善"},{"start":5251.472,"end":5269.597,"text":"顯然有負各界期待因此期望透過此次大學法的通盤檢討能夠真正的將教師評鑑制度趕快導回正軌不要再淪為校方剝削與控制教師的一把利刃"},{"start":5271.823,"end":5292.225,"text":"同時也要解決專案教師非教非勞的艱難處境促進大學以長期編制內聘僱的方式為優先才對此外目前各大學校務會議普遍出現與學術或行政主管混沖教師代表的現象"},{"start":5293.346,"end":5320.554,"text":"這不但危害了校園民主更造成校務會議失去原來所應扮演的平衡監督功能對此我認為應該要藉由此次大學法修法的機會重新討論大學校務會議的組成代表在教師代表部分應該納入未兼任學術或行政主管之教師免得求援兼裁判"},{"start":5321.694,"end":5345.412,"text":"並因等比例納入編制外教職員的代表同時也應該增加學生代表的比例使大學校務會議的整體組成能夠真正發揮校園民主的精神這才是大學自治否則大學自治變成只是特定人士的自助餐"},{"start":5346.601,"end":5374.366,"text":"同時考量目前私立大專院校的校長遴選制度在制度上幾乎完全沒有給予教職員生任何參與的空間而將校長遴選或連任與否的權利全然的賦予董事會導致私立大專院校校長的選任經常可能不具有教職員生的民意基礎與校園民主的精神相違背"},{"start":5375.126,"end":5395.308,"text":"也因此希望透過此次大學法的修法可以在校長遴選與連任的過程當中納入全校教職員生的意見以真正落實校園民主與自治的精神而不是空有法規而實際落實的時候改為人治"},{"start":5396.189,"end":5412.919,"text":"最後再次感謝劉書斌趙偉安排今天的公聽會也非常感謝各位專家代表不遠千里齊聚於此我也感謝教育部以及行政機關所派的代表剛才我發言的時候次長"},{"start":5413.539,"end":5426.065,"text":"全程專注的聆聽並且撰寫筆記所以我也希望我們來自民間來自學界的聲音真的能夠一一被聽到而且被納入修法的意見當中"},{"start":5427.941,"end":5448.46,"text":"此事表達各方的意見也是我們公僕的職責所在那也希望列席的部會代表也就能夠誠摯的聆聽各界的意見作為未來大學法修法的參考依據也期望教育部能夠儘快的提出大學法修法的版本"},{"start":5450.121,"end":5476.034,"text":"屆時我們可以在國會的殿堂共同進行討論審議並且進行競訴通過謝謝大家謝謝好謝謝耿如君委員請代理主席謝謝接下來有請劉書斌委員發言"},{"start":5483.564,"end":5493.204,"text":"主席各位先進各位學者專家學生代表還有教育部的同仁跟在線上關心到高教的朋友大家早安"},{"start":5494.232,"end":5523.712,"text":"今天召開大學法的修法公聽會是因為台灣的高校問題已經到了不能夠再等的地步了高校改革的核心是在大學法這部法呢從2005年開始到現在一直沒有修過20年來的經驗代表什麼我們就是現在以20年前的架構來去治理我們的大學來治理我們的高校"},{"start":5524.792,"end":5542.884,"text":"面對現在的少子化大學退場人才外流還有產業轉型的議題都沒有辦法好好的連結台灣在受教育的年齡數跟升學率上面不斷上升不輸OECD的國家"},{"start":5543.644,"end":5555.572,"text":"但是在資源配置治理制度跟永續發展的面向上面確實已經出現到落後的風險改革刻不容緩教育部其實也知道了"},{"start":5556.593,"end":5572.895,"text":"上個會期本席與本黨的委員率先提出大學法的修法草案透過多場與學生的團體交流我們看到了社會高度的改革期待學生更站在最前線身為召委本席"},{"start":5574.116,"end":5600.749,"text":"責無旁貸的推動本次公聽會這不只是技術性的立法更是反映政治現實的必要性過去八年 民進黨政府完全執政期間學生團體多次要求徵訂學生會的專章提高學生代表的比例校長遴選制度要透明化但始終等不到布版 院版也等不到行動需要這麼久的時間嗎"},{"start":5603.359,"end":5626.101,"text":"本會及情勢終於出現了變化民眾黨提出了版本之後民進黨跟教育部才開始研議12月4日學生團體更公開表示若沒有民眾黨率先提出修法後續根本推不動這句話點出核心多年遭遇到擱置的訴求是因為我們的提案才真正的向前的"},{"start":5627.591,"end":5652.793,"text":"今天我面對的挑戰的核心是大學自治跟國家監理的長期路線之爭這剛才也從可以看到是學生代表跟私校的學校的校長或者是理事會代表有這樣的之爭但是我們希望真的能夠找到可以解決的途徑本席強調回應學生跟社會期待是我們的責任也期盼教育部"},{"start":5654.997,"end":5670.56,"text":"朱次長 高嬌思哲 姚高賢司長要請反映請述提出不版的改革草案送行政院使立法院能夠在朝野共識下來推動改革以下來說明本黨的三大核心方向"},{"start":5672.196,"end":5697.974,"text":"第一 學生參與跟重建大學民主治理我們主張將校務會議的學生比例由十分之一逐步升高到四分之一並規範教師代表三分之二不得兼任行政主管剛才有私校的學校代表校長們提出一個建議說如果學校的規模不一會不會出現什麼問題但是如果是依照比例這個問題其實不大"},{"start":5699.955,"end":5726.296,"text":"並不是所有的一級的主管都要出席也許實際上是二級的主管其實可以按比例去出現就對了這不是會是大問題使校務會議呢真正落實到師生共同治理而非行政獨大第二校長遴選透明化來降低黑箱作業遴選委員會當中教師跟學生代表需占至少五分之二並涵蓋大學部與對應的研究生"},{"start":5727.694,"end":5730.821,"text":"以避免密室協商確保程序公開正當"},{"start":5732.54,"end":5757.299,"text":"第三要建立學生會專章保障學生自治的完整性學生會在人事財務選務空缺上具有獨立性並由學校協助代收會費申訴制度也應該擴大到所有的學生組織這是學生八年來最核心的訴求本黨版本已完整納入但是我也要提醒學生如果賦予了這樣的一個責任"},{"start":5759.701,"end":5766.586,"text":"也要有相對的您的開會的意識技巧的能力知能也必須要加強我覺得這個是我聽到今天會議當中有的這樣一個聲音"},{"start":5770.671,"end":5795.606,"text":"從國際的比較來看台灣在PISA的成績與高校入學率上成績亮眼但在大學經費師生筆 治理制度跟退場機制等方面已落後多數的OECD國家許多學校在人少錢少制度老注意到制度老的情況之下免利支撐這樣的高校體質無法支撐產業的升級跟國家競爭力的提升"},{"start":5799.079,"end":5824.581,"text":"因此 修大學法不只是教育議題 更是國家發展問題請教育部要跟國發會一起思考 行政院要做這樣的思考我們需要與OECD國家相稱的制度跟資源 建立高品質高韌性的高教體系 唯有在母法當中明確規範學生參與教師專業 董事會的責任 私校財務透明 退場機制"},{"start":5825.081,"end":5844.733,"text":"品質保證跟產學連結國際化等跨領域的問題才讓改革脫鈴零碎的補動成為系統性的重建最後本席要呼籲朝野三黨支持民眾黨的版本或者是或者是共同形成跨黨派的共識意見"},{"start":5846.195,"end":5860.344,"text":"教育委員會請教育部也要加快建議板的內容出現或是敦促行政院提出院板讓教育委員會能夠在朝野共識之下盡速來排審真正推動大學法的改革"},{"start":5861.485,"end":5889.691,"text":"感謝與會的代表所有師生跟團體長期為了改革奔走謝謝目前在會場上面的這個團體跟學生代表跟所有的專家學者非常認真長期的奔走已經持續了很久我們在最後旅旅上面就一起來努力民眾黨做了過去您進黨九年以來為做的事情讓我們共同來去完成一部反映時代需求保障師生權益的大學法好 謝謝大家"},{"start":5892.653,"end":5914.931,"text":"謝謝劉書斌委員發言我們現在請任立中是國立台北商業大學的校長發言下一位請黃良騰會長準備"},{"start":5920.123,"end":5923.902,"text":"主席好 教育部長官還有各位同僚大家好"},{"start":5924.608,"end":5952.33,"text":"我想我在这个地方请代表国立科技大学协进会来针对这一次大学法一些的修订的一些草案我们发表一些意见其中环绕在最重要的一个议题仍然还是在于有关于校务会议代表当中是不是学生的代表人数要到四分之一那当初"},{"start":5953.944,"end":5978.05,"text":"学信会我们这个地方有统合各个大学的一些意见认为这个人数上面的四分之一的比例来讲的话稍微过高了现在现行是大概10%另外的话在于其实学校现在目前的运作里头来讲的话我们对于学生的沟通其实是有非常多的不同的管道"},{"start":5978.79,"end":6001.657,"text":"比如說每個學期期初的時候我們會跟全校各個班級的幹部進行座談會到了期末的時候呢校長與同學有約會是直接面對所有的同學進行溝通另外的話各式各樣不同的委員會裡頭來講話比如說我們學校現在最近有一個棟大樓要重建這個重建委員會裡頭來講的話其實並沒有學生代表"},{"start":6004.338,"end":6029.84,"text":"但是我們還是邀請了學生代表來練習來講出他們的一些看法跟意見另外對於學校的財務上面來講的話校務基金管理委員會裡頭也有學生代表那這些所有的不同的一些會議上面來講的話學生代表其實通通都不缺席的那麼如果他們有一些意見如果表達了不被委員會尊重"},{"start":6031.485,"end":6047.994,"text":"这些同学事实上可以直接一封信就写到校长室或者是一封信就写到部长室去了然后来反映反映之后学校怎么办我们还是会要积极的处理的所以说我觉得整个的一个沟通的管道上面来讲的话其实"},{"start":6049.461,"end":6075.082,"text":"并没有这么直接相关性那么高的说一个会议里头的学生代表人数要超过将近25%这样子四分之一以后这样来看所以我们是对这个是有点保留的那我们的建议是其实学生代表如果这一旦入法之后就没有什么弹性了所以我们是不是我不晓得这个法律上面是怎么样子好的"},{"start":6075.302,"end":6102.412,"text":"但是我们是说那是不是可以呢建议就是说我们是10到25%然后请教育部另订一些奖励办法如果有的学校里头校务会议代表当中的学生代表人数能够达到25%的时候给予奖励这样子的话我相信学校就会权衡实务的执行上面的可行性"},{"start":6103.652,"end":6114.557,"text":"那么以及这个整个的一个目标让同学能够在所有的重要会议里头来讲话他的发声能够被受到重视我想这个可能是一个解决的办法"},{"start":6115.199,"end":6136.393,"text":"另外的话我们对于有关于校长的临选委员会里头现在修订办法里头来讲的话他说包括教师跟学生代表的比例与校务会议相同也就是说将来在校长临选委员会他的学生代表要25%"},{"start":6138.908,"end":6167.088,"text":"那么以我们学校来讲的话我们现在目前学校里头的校长定权委员会有17个人这17个人当中学校代表有7个人这7个人是必须从校务会议来推选的其中教师代表5人行政人员1人学生代表1人另外的话我们还有校友代表2人其实校友代表就是学生的身份只不过他已经毕业了在社会上面已经"},{"start":6168.266,"end":6184.135,"text":"工作一段时间之后对于他在学校里头很多的一些想法他可能有他的独到见解然后所以我们也很重视校友的声音另外的话会有五位社会公正人士所以这样子一下来之后最后是"},{"start":6184.875,"end":6208.211,"text":"教育部的临选林派的代表有三人那我们都知道像教育部林派的三人基本上来讲现在我们学校里头校教评会里头系教评会里头尤其是系教评会系教评会的委员里头来讲的话我们现在都会要求要有一位外部的委员但是他没有投票权他只是列席"},{"start":6209.042,"end":6228.562,"text":"那结果老师问我说校长这是为什么呢我说很简单防腐机制我们就请校外公正的一位学术界有地位的人来列席参加我们的系教评会里头的运作的状况到底是怎么样子这样子就而已他没有投票权他没有投票权"},{"start":6228.982,"end":6256.788,"text":"那教育部林派的三人代表我觉得这也是一个很重要的一个防抚机制那我觉得这三位教育部的林派的代表三人是不是有投票权我觉得这是可以讨论的但是人一定要排我觉得人一定要排这样子的话才能够保证我们的校长林选的委员会的运作是非常公正公平公开的那以上是我们的一些建议谢谢"},{"start":6258.424,"end":6268.493,"text":"好謝謝任校長現在請黃良騰會長做發言柯志恩委員請準備"},{"start":6273.767,"end":6300.177,"text":"大家好我是台市大的會長梁騰然後今天就針對大學法發言那大學生其實常常被認為是社會改革的前線然後學生會也常常被認為是最有能動性的一群人組成的那它可以深化公共政策的參與推動時代的革新那我想大學存在的目的一定是人才的培育還有研究的發展所以在第五條部分支持范雲委員的版本把教職員工生定期的權益盤點眼納進來"},{"start":6301.778,"end":6329.704,"text":"那其實現在各校都遇到這個參與率或者是其實校內外都有這個政治參與度高跟低兩極化的差別那回到校園裡面來我想學生自治的第一步是賦權就是Empower的那個賦權那其實對政治人感覺很冷感到底發生什麼事情那我想我們要思考的是我們怎麼讓大家不要離這些公共決策太遠因為它真的會被這些決策影響"},{"start":6330.464,"end":6354.639,"text":"那重點應該就是讓他可以參與政策而且讓他知道他的聲音是可以帶來改變的所以我們怎麼做到就是empower這件事情第一個就是要給他會議席次讓這些學生代表的票在實體的決議上是有影響力的所以不管是三分之一四分之一其實都是希望他可以拉高到一個可以影響到會議決議的情形那尤其是有些學生代表在會議裡面在不那麼"},{"start":6355.459,"end":6382.982,"text":"友善的學校裡面它就是意見諮詢所以這時候校方就會好我聽到了但是我沒有要做但是學生作為一個大學他要培育的對象他是校園生活的主體他當然應該要說說自己的經驗然後讓校方的決策可以更加的回應學生的需求我想這個重點應該不是意識規則有多純熟而是在會議裡面釐清學生的需求到底是什麼學生代表除了表決的這個功能以外他更重要的應該是可以實時參與討論"},{"start":6384.463,"end":6405.395,"text":"讓他的擔心讓他的需求被政策考慮進去所以在第七條並效的部分我們傾向支持的是民眾黨黨團的版本因為學生不應該只是表達意見而已他應該要有一些實質上的決策權否則董事會可能就會說好你講完了齁然後還是照自己偏好的樣子通過那校務治理的權限就不會在師生的手上了"},{"start":6406.696,"end":6427.757,"text":"但是在這個大學法第33條修正版本在哪些會議要有學生參與的規定我們是覺得犯人委員的版本比較適合因為大學主規裡面有規範的會議實在是太少了可能只有十餘項但是其實我們校級的會議可能有四十幾項所以它會比現在可以實質參與的還要少那我們是覺得應該要跟師生有關的就應該要參與"},{"start":6429.278,"end":6454.969,"text":"再来是公开会议的记录也是很重要的事情不只是校务会议当然除了有一些不宜公开的委员会以外其他的都应该要公开不宜公开的可能像是申诉评议像是性平案件的审理但是如果今天性平会在审理的是学校的性别平等教育发展计划我们倒也觉得这可以公开所以它应该是看事情有没有需要保密而决定它有没有需要公开"},{"start":6455.689,"end":6480.738,"text":"那這為什麼對於學生代表很重要其實是因為學生代表很需要透過比較各校的會議資料來知道自己學校的情況到底是怎麼樣我怎麼去評估這個學校的輔導安量到底是重還是不重學生代表是不會有這個概念的除非他不小心念了本科系所以他需要透過這種跨校的比較知道學校有哪些地方是特別需要支持的以及學校有哪些優勢跟優點是他們可以有更多發揮的"},{"start":6482.694,"end":6499.558,"text":"再來還有一些比較特別的會議像是校長臨選跟教評會他們其實一直不太算是學生代表主要要倡議加入的會議學生代表其實一直都知道教評會的份量很重也關係到老師的學術自主但當今天老師涉及了霸凌案性平案前面有一個調查委員會"},{"start":6500.018,"end":6519.711,"text":"建議他要停聘解聘不續聘的時候其實教評會裡面其他老師的壓力是很大的他到底要怎麼讓一個朝夕相處的同事沒有工作其實老師們很難下這個決定所以我們覺得就算不要學生參與好了也希望有一些外部的委員可以參與不然我想教評會很難做出一個"},{"start":6520.932,"end":6535.084,"text":"這麼有壓力的決定我真的寧願相信教評會裡面的大家有自己的苦衷而不是像外界所傳的大家受到外部的壓力欺壓或者是有一些黑箱作業我真的寧願相信大家有自己的苦衷這樣"},{"start":6536.175,"end":6551.137,"text":"再來回到校長遴選的部分現在學生大概很少有兩席的所以他就會是一個單一的學生代表在校長遴選委員會裡面他會很努力的要在那一個充滿學術威望的眾老師的這個會議情境裡面他如果有不能接受的權利"},{"start":6552.559,"end":6571.315,"text":"他其實就要非常努力的獨排眾議然後而且這個遴選的過程往往會要求要保密所以他就要獨立的判斷情境然後沒有辦法跟其他人討論那其實那個參與的空間是非常小的對學生來說門檻很高所以不管要不要保障不同學制也就是大學部跟研究所"},{"start":6572.075,"end":6589.718,"text":"不管要不要保障这件事情但我们都觉得至少要两席而且要让学生可以自办说明会模拟投票这些事情以及让候选人可以到各院了解学校不同的发展需求才有办法真的做到校长临选可以让广大的师生都知道这件事情所以"},{"start":6592.545,"end":6609.816,"text":"這或許在之後的事情細則可以討論那最後是會費收取會費收取其實是學生會的重中之重因為經濟要獨立人格才會獨立我真的滿認同這句話的那會費收取是學生會能不能夠不受干預的獨立發聲一個很重要的地方像他能不能辦一個校方"},{"start":6610.797,"end":6637.287,"text":"跟校方不這麼站在一起的倡議型活動的關鍵他要脫離學校分配的補助款他才可以真的不受干預否則他有些財政比較不好的學生就會一直在沒錢然後學生無感的惡性循環裡面最後也要再次感謝我們大學法終於在各方努力下又被拿出來討論那我們希望這次的大學法可以打破封閉的權利結構讓學生可以實質參與而非形式的過水然後讓大學法更符合學生需求讓高等教育更好謝謝"},{"start":6640.455,"end":6645.462,"text":"好 謝謝黃會長現在請柯志恩委員發言"},{"start":6653.557,"end":6675.547,"text":"谢谢召委今天又再一次的办理我们大学法的公听会那其实看到这样的一个公听会其实非常感叹在2016年第九届担任立委的时候就有学联会就特别来找曾经是大学老师的我来讨论里面非常多那没想到这个学生会的这个会长已经物换心仪已经换了大概换了九个了吧"},{"start":6676.107,"end":6701.671,"text":"好吧到现在为止还是继续要讨论大学法所以说到底大学法里面透过这么多的公听会我们会不会会有一个所谓比较最后的一个版本出现我想真的教育部要加把劲教育部已经历经了20年了我们大家我今天非常谢谢刘淑冰委员特别排的这样子的一个公听会但是我还是要说我们的朱次长已经从高教师的次长"},{"start":6702.191,"end":6719.731,"text":"高升师的师长现在已经变成次长了你看我们还在讨论大学法那原因还是很简单要广大各位的意见那意见已经讲了这么久了那到底教育部的版本在哪里但是呢很多时候呢每次都告诉我们要非常的公开态度要非常的开放"},{"start":6720.211,"end":6742.816,"text":"但是太多的开放里面其实我某种程度是要掩饰教育部它不表态的这样的一个真实的一个原因那为什么不表态某一些在大学服务过我想多少可以因为这些东西包山包海有太多的细节学校的立场教师的立场还有学生的立场都各自不一样我想这也是一个事实没有错吧所以其实也很难在这个过程当中"},{"start":6743.456,"end":6759.237,"text":"但是呢如果不取得共识呢我想再过几年也还是停留在公听会的阶段那我们想就诚如我刚刚说的我刚刚听了一下葛珠君委员就是针对于我们这个教师的权益特别在升等的权益里面可不可以更多样那当然从头到尾"},{"start":6759.637,"end":6780.559,"text":"还有很多人有提到包括我们刚刚同学的台师大的同学也特别已经细微到有关于这个学生费再怎么样收都是所以你看可以很大很小那我们只能捡其中的几个东西来去来看待当然我觉得维持大学自主的这个核心精神这绝对是要的维持大学的自治然后呢学生的自治"},{"start":6781.019,"end":6810.1,"text":"这是但这里面就牵涉到一个相当微妙的一个问题就像刚刚我们景文的老师也提到我也同意学生比例的代表这是一个正确的方向但比例是一个数字有些时候学生的一个所谓的值的部分也会是我举例来说当我们制定了从以前大学法里面有关学生参与校务所有的会议当中有人提出三分之一有人提出四分之一有些人提出五分之一这个数字都有这是一个比例"},{"start":6810.64,"end":6834.459,"text":"但是有些时候像我过去服务的淡江大学我服务到26年就发现其实差距非常的大早期的学生非常愿意所以说我们会竞争非常的激烈交到最后10年的时候我光是要开一个校务会议学生事务会议每一个学院要导出代表因为我们有个比例在那边我找不到人因为学生就开始没"},{"start":6834.599,"end":6852.2,"text":"没有兴趣我说的值是指在他们对于公共事务所投入的事情所以当我们设定了这样一个标准的时候一个比例的时候物换心仪每一次都不一样而且我们再不定力的话其实你会发现往往因为找不到人让学生也会造成很大的困扰"},{"start":6852.64,"end":6879.483,"text":"所以比例的方向是正確但是要設定是哪樣的比例我覺得這個我們都是一個考慮討論的一個空間所以這不是學校規模大跟小比例就比例在那個地方我覺得必須要思考的就是當你一個學校沒有所謂的社會科學系的時候其實會讓學校是非常的困擾因為大部分的學生真的對於這樣的一個學生的事務裡面他們的興趣點沒有那麼大的時候其實當你比例定到三分之一的時候"},{"start":6880.063,"end":6900.572,"text":"会有留会的问题这是我们担任学务长七年当中所提到的所以说呢我们在第33条有关学生自治的层面要扩大学生会的专章完成学生会的运作财务跟这边的空间我也是比较持正向的方法来看因为你可以确保学生会的独立性保障学生的自治权益"},{"start":6901.252,"end":6929.683,"text":"但是呢还是一句话就刚刚我们的会长所提到的他们也很细微希望由学校这也是范玉为人的主张希望细微由学校来做代收那目前来说这个代收又是一个问题当你把这个学生会的会费如果不是跟这个学费单印在跟学院堂同一张纸上而是额外由另外一张纸的时候然后你又没有强制即使学校帮你代收其实你的比例交的比例也是非常的低的你有没有发现"},{"start":6930.243,"end":6958.821,"text":"所以说呢你看政大25我的母校25到35大概只有400人教4000人教台北大学大概20到30所以除非是你把印在对不对同学是不是印在那上面但是你在印在这是你们要的但是很难做得到但是呢有些时候所以说我们的学生会就要怎么办偶尔是找个什么陈其正来唱个歌找谁来唱个歌透过这样子的学生办活动然后我们缴个多少钱来当做你们学生会的这样子会费对不对"},{"start":6959.341,"end":6987.797,"text":"很辛苦但是呢这就是我们说出来你看学务长不是当假的因为他们都要跟我反映过这个问题我当学务长很久然后这样已经过了八年了怎么还在讨论这个问题所以说你把它即使把它分隔学校应该帮你们代收但是你把你这个账单分开来上的话你这张账单额外要去缴其实问题还是存在所以这个问题该怎么办所以你们只能提供到由学校来代收但是学校在代收的过程当中怎么样的收法也是决定你们有没有办法收到钱"},{"start":6988.097,"end":7011.949,"text":"这是你们细微上里面去讨论好不好这太细微这整个大学法来说还有关于这个少子化所带来的一个冲击要怎么样保障这些权益所以我所提出来第7条修正的草案当中未来直辖县市的大学或私立何必要经过校务会议同意然后也要重视教师员的权益这点我想大家所要求就是一个退场的过程真的是"},{"start":7012.449,"end":7028.46,"text":"目前為止是勸缺公開透明所以問題學生的安置老師的勞動保障土地的資產私校的財務審查跟歸屬這些過去都是在一個比較封閉的儀式除非有人檢舉否則還有我們立法院質詢否則都不會主動告知"},{"start":7028.96,"end":7043.174,"text":"所以認為有關於重要的一個決定必須公開可以審查可以被監督那如果大學都是由行政來壟斷的話資訊不透明師生無法參與我覺得這個部分事實是大自治精神但是要怎麼樣來參與"},{"start":7044.295,"end":7065.928,"text":"多少人站教职员站的比例多少那也学生他们刚刚讲说学生如果一个人去的话他在这个学术权威之下学生不敢发言那是否大学一位研究所一位那是不是可以稍微减缓这样子的一个趋势都可以讨论但是公开这点是绝对是毋庸置疑的最后我只提出一个第35条我觉得这个东西应该好好来讨论"},{"start":7066.428,"end":7090.601,"text":"纳入家庭所得净额适用税率12%以内的免学费我们能够打破贫穷世袭教育M型化的现况我觉得这才是一个落实社会正义我觉得不管是公私利真的保障弱势学生之前清贫学生很多大二生为了办理休学无力缴纳一万八你看造成很多轻生的悲剧我们不希望再发生"},{"start":7091.081,"end":7112.017,"text":"所以我们要花很多钱与其花很多钱去买那个持交啊不交的这些所谓的一些的武器我觉得应该多一点经费来照顾经济弱势所以我个人为好好的讨论税率12%以内的免学费这点是很重要的总而言之这个问题还会继续在讨论下去太多了但是呢几个基本的原则"},{"start":7112.978,"end":7133.046,"text":"学生自治参与扫指化所面临的冲击的冲击还要保障弱势的学生我想这是我对大学法修法的一个看法然后呢我们希望在实务跟我们的理想当中取得一个平衡点然后呢我们可以回应学生团体跟社会的共同但是最重要的还是一句话20年没有修教育部"},{"start":7133.706,"end":7159.168,"text":"公听会不能再开下去学生的意见再继续学生已经换了八个会长你们学联会已经换了换了八个会长了好吧已经第九年了我不晓得都已经过去的常常在路上遇到说老师我就上次给你看我说毕业的几年了我说那个大学法我说一样还在那里所以说呢各位不要让今天在场的学生你们过了我在社会上看到你们搞不好变成我同事的时候还在修大学法就由你们来修了好不好"},{"start":7159.768,"end":7187.908,"text":"重點一個我們一致希望教育部拿出態度跟拿出我們的願板這才有辦法讓我們大學法繼續往前修最大的一個動能謝謝大家好 謝謝柯之恩委員講出了我們在現場的代表們跟委員們的心聲教育部真的要責無龐大要加快了20年前的架構還可以適用到現在嗎好 那我們現在請張雅玲委員發言"},{"start":7191.027,"end":7217.677,"text":"蔡景洪召集人請準備謝謝主席好 我想先剛剛柯政委員有提到就是說他認為我們應該少買一些武器石膠的武器來多照顧學生我想照顧學生這一點是所有人都希望做到的事情但是守護國家的安全這兩點應該不是擇一應該是可以兼具"},{"start":7218.917,"end":7248.397,"text":"那上个礼拜呢其实我也参与了学生所举办的大学法的记者会那其实有一个数字呢我听起来非常的惊人就是说有现场的学生告诉我他出生的那一年到现在已经20年了大学法都没有修正过就是20年就是一个呱呱落地的婴儿长到可以变成个大学生的时间这是一个非常漫长的时间这20年整个社会的变化其实已经非常大了"},{"start":7249.277,"end":7256.041,"text":"我們從當年可能少子化沒有這麼嚴重的問題到現在已經是非常嚴峻所以造成我們所謂的退場的問題公私銷合併的問題"},{"start":7258.792,"end":7281.49,"text":"所以還有一個就是我們媒體的環境資訊的傳播其實都有非常大的改變可是我們的大學法卻依然沒有變那這個是一個我們必須一起來面對也希望督促我們在這個會期或是這一屆以內我們可以完成這個修法那我想其中我自己主要針對的就是三個重點其實也就是學生發言學生參與校務會議的一個重點這樣子"},{"start":7287.389,"end":7308.853,"text":"就是說我們現在在高校和大學合併的時候應該要有學生的聲音而且他應該要經過校務會議同意我們現在只要經過主管機關或是董事會同意就可以了可是學校合併其實會影響到的是老師的教學生還有學生的求學的問題"},{"start":7312.634,"end":7325.284,"text":"那這麼大的一個影響性可是我們卻完全不要去參考師生的意見我覺得這是一個非常不合理的地方所以我的主張就是不管是公私立大學只要學校要進行合併的時候都必須經過校務會議的同意"},{"start":7330.818,"end":7349.189,"text":"再來第二點就是我們校長遴選的公開透明我們現在校園遴選的時候長期存在所謂的資訊不公開外力介入甚至黑箱操作的問題所以我希望說在我們這次的修法裡面要去保證我們著稱要有代表性"},{"start":7350.149,"end":7369.431,"text":"而且學生的代表要包含教師跟學生代表且學生代表不能夠少於兩名當然各校可以依照各自的需求將教職員生的同意權納入遴選過程那還是要再強調一句校長"},{"start":7370.892,"end":7395.966,"text":"不是少數人的校長校長是所有每一個學生的校長所以我們希望在這個遴選過程可以去反映全校多元的聲音再來第三個就是我們要強化校務會議的一個監督功能校務會議應該是大學自治裡面最高的決策機構但是現在不管是有代表性不足監督力量薄弱的問題"},{"start":7397.046,"end":7412.998,"text":"所以如果要讓校務會議真正發揮它一個制衡的作用教室代表中沒有兼任行政主管的人必須在多數避免讓校務會議變成只是校長的橡皮圖章"},{"start":7414.798,"end":7430.623,"text":"那學生呢的代表我這邊的想法其實是五分之一那成如剛剛這個柯政務委員講的這一點其實我是蠻同意的的確是現在學生參與公共事務的這個動力呢相對過去可能是稍微更低的"},{"start":7431.343,"end":7456.845,"text":"那如果要找到如果要訂到三分之一會不會有這個到時候沒有辦法找到足夠的人數所以我這邊基本上是提五分之一但是我想這可以讓大家一起來討論因為其實也有學生跟我反映我們過去參與這些學校事務的時候他的意見其實根本不會被踩那慢慢慢慢的大家就不想去參與這個公共事務不想參與學校事務所以我想這個可能是有一個賠利還有校務會議"},{"start":7459.066,"end":7486.053,"text":"這些公共的會議到底會不會採納學生如果我們可以去改善這一點的話也許三分之一也不是不可行那最後呢我還有新增這個監督財務 銷務及邊境議程的委員會確保我們的運作是公開透明而且議案也是安排公平所以我想最重要讓大學運作監督就不能夠只是一個形式而是要建立真正有力量的一個制度"},{"start":7486.693,"end":7507.484,"text":"所以我想最後還是要去呼籲我們所有的教文委員會的委員都一起來公開支持這個法案的修法讓我們的教育部可以更積極地去督促一起去整合大家不同的意見提出一個好的版本來去回應這個時代的需求跟學生的需要"},{"start":7508.564,"end":7534.494,"text":"那我想最後還是要感謝我們的學生就是在這麼多年以來還是不放棄一直非常的努力在推動相關的修法這樣子的精神我覺得非常的欽佩但我也希望在這一屆我們可以走到終點 謝謝謝謝張雅玲委員現在請蔡景洪召集人發言陳育仁理事長請準備"},{"start":7536.628,"end":7557.279,"text":"好委員教育部長官各大學代表那所有關注大學法的前輩先進學生夥伴大家好我是代表大學法改革陣線2.0在此發言首先先特別感謝台灣民眾黨蘇冰老師的幫忙那推動修法的進程也在今年率先提出學權版本支持學生剛剛聽過前面幾輪的發言"},{"start":7560.58,"end":7576.173,"text":"應該大學法的修法目前已經有跨黨派委員的共識了那我們也期許教育部可以聽見朝野委員民團教團學團部分校長以及剛有聽到國立私立的科大等等的聲音來勇敢提出草案"},{"start":7577.403,"end":7596.478,"text":"大學法修正禮那我來補充一件事其實我們從2005年到現在都陸陸續續有一點小修都一條兩條這樣但沒有全文修正也沒辦法改變2005年這個大的框架大的架構在這個關鍵上已經20年了大學法依舊停在這裡前後陸續經過台學聯 北學聯 大改正1.0 2.0等等倡議了十來年"},{"start":7604.884,"end":7619.962,"text":"我们希望校园环境与高教需求聚变的这个情况下修法是势在必行那我来回应一些刚校长们有提到一些关键第一个是教师代表全责相扶的部分在校务会议里面刚有提到第一个"},{"start":7620.863,"end":7645.735,"text":"如果校務會議的代表他教師人數過半但主管可能在行政上會有些困難權責並不相符他們不用負責任可是校務會議代表的學生老師也沒有領主管家級他不負責行政內務他在幹嘛他在處理的是處理校園的發展方向跟監督校務剛剛有提及不管是大學校小學校會有"},{"start":7646.275,"end":7667.375,"text":"如果老師人數過高學生人數過高行政不兼主管的狀況的話可能會沒辦法開會這其實這樣子我們的核心目標是完善監督功能小學校也需要完善這個目標在於縮小校務會議的規模比照國際就沒有困難以荷蘭來說荷蘭就24個人我再以台灣來說"},{"start":7668.416,"end":7677.254,"text":"台大他光校會兼任主管人就只有三個人其實我沒辦法理解這樣的沒兼任主管會有困難他會困難在哪裡"},{"start":7678.649,"end":7700.336,"text":"再來剛有提到學帶席次的部分我身為數學系用簡單的數據邏輯來說明為什麼我們提四分之一五分之一第一個現行的學生占一成其餘主管教師占九成只要教職員有高度共識也就是九成里的三分之二"},{"start":7701.016,"end":7710.249,"text":"那麼就可以拿到六成以上的票數九成里的三分之二就可以拿到六成以上票數這也就是說在現行的KLM規範裡面學生的意見根本就不重要"},{"start":7711.144,"end":7732.206,"text":"再來學生如果占兩成就是五分之一其他的主管就占八成當教師級員工對議案有高度共識也就是八成里的三分之二八成里的三分之二那就可以直接拿到總票數的53%歇為過半在這種狀況下學生不管是全數贊成或全數反對都不影響投票的結果"},{"start":7733.047,"end":7761.227,"text":"都不影響投票結果再來如果學生代表占25%也就是民眾黨團旗的四分之一教職員工就占75%如果教職員有高度共識也就是75%裡三分之二都是相同意見七成五裡三分之二都是相同意見那就可以堪堪拿到50%學生在這個時候如果全體投同意或反對就可以剛好打平手需要主席才是"},{"start":7761.907,"end":7789.315,"text":"所以在這個角度來看我們如果要提升學生這個主體全責相輔來看學生其實也有繳學費那我們應該要逐步升高學生在校務會議當中的比例而校務會議的學生人數如果不足其實他重點反映在校會人數整體過度膨脹我們應該以限縮100人為原則甚至以四星來說只有50個人而已那在這樣的橋段底下學生人數其實不會不夠其實不會不夠"},{"start":7791.175,"end":7811.942,"text":"再來校長遴選的部分部分的私立大學校長主張校長遴選委員會應該由董事會主導認為學校出資在董事會學生跟教師不應過多介入他們也擔心師生代表會削弱董事會的權責影響校務穩定我們要強調大學不是少數人的公司而是師生的共同體"},{"start":7812.862,"end":7841.225,"text":"長期以來私校董事會大權獨攬儼然成為校長的大老闆導致治理失衡現在公私立學校都應回歸教育的公共性讓校長產生的過程兼顧各方的聲音那我們的草案裡面也希望在學生的部分至少大學部跟研究部各一名大學部跟研究部各一名那這樣子也要提醒一下如果研究部有些學校沒有研究部的話我們可以大學部及研究部共兩名"},{"start":7842.389,"end":7863.835,"text":"然後以這樣子再來再比照公校納入五分之二的校務會代表保留五分之一董事會代表來提出人選交董事會就可以增進校內師生參與跟高教公共性例如今年沸沸揚揚的四星門檻選客案校內師生反彈董事會卻毫無作為這難道就是權責對應權責相符嗎"},{"start":7865.795,"end":7890.217,"text":"這已凸顯目前制度讓私校學生權益不受學校重視急需改善若私校認為師生與董事會的比重要在權衡那我們應該來提出其他理由反覆的討論再來 併校的部分公私校合併是正確的方向至於公私校各自通過的門檻可以討論應該也可以來讓教育部主導公私校合併的部分"},{"start":7891.533,"end":7916.793,"text":"最後再提一件事也有一些校長在回應我們現在已經有青年屬的大專校院學生會運作原則了為什麼還要入法我相信教育部也很清楚一直都用指引原則講補措施這些你們每年都有做學生權利問卷有多少學校沒有做到大家心裡都有數也就是說如果我們先用邏輯上來講如果大家認為已有指引何須入法那麼我們細緻討論一下"},{"start":7918.154,"end":7937.021,"text":"如果指引沒問題 入法有強制力那怎麼會有問題第二個 如果已有指引核心入法你假設指引有問題那我想請問的是現在的指引大部分規範學生會要在選舉人事章程財務等享有自治校方不得介入這樣怎麼會有問題"},{"start":7938.402,"end":7958.095,"text":"也就是說我們其實在學權版的草案裡強調33條到33之9這不是要讓學生自治跟學校對立而是各司其職互相配合杜絕正義那我們也希望教育部可以來訂定在條文裡面有說明授權教育部來訂定學生自治與學校應該互動遵循辦法來教育部來訂"},{"start":7959.136,"end":7975.163,"text":"未來下方與學生會的權責如果有清晰的指引清晰的法律規範大家就不會無所適從最後最後的最後今天公聽會目前為止我們要再強調朝野委員聽起來都有要修法的這個共識那也感謝民眾黨團書兵召委"},{"start":7976.824,"end":8001.341,"text":"開了這個宮廷會展現修法決心我們誠摯的希望教育部可以再勇敢一點有肩膀一點不要看似有努力實則敷衍了事我們誠摯的期盼教育部可以正式的在近期就推出布版的修正草案不是三個月又三個月一年又再一年以拖待變我們也希望書兵召委可以在宮廷會之後再繼續排答詢繼續排審謝謝大家我是大學法改革政縣金鴻謝謝"},{"start":8004.11,"end":8017.05,"text":"好 謝謝蔡總召集人的發言現在請陳育仁理事長發言王立成學生代表請準備"},{"start":8019.376,"end":8039.995,"text":"主席 在座各位委員先進各位學生自治夥伴大家好我是台灣學生聯合會理事長陳育仁首先在此代表台學聯感謝立法院邀請我來參加這場公聽會再來是想感謝這次提出大學法修法草案的民眾黨團劉書斌召委以及經部黨的范園委員"},{"start":8040.515,"end":8052.256,"text":"感謝委員關心高校的議題讓高校可以更完善更進步也就此啟動這次大學法的修法針對這次大學法的修法台學院有以下幾點問題希望可以提供今天的公聽會帶動理性的討論"},{"start":8054.738,"end":8072.226,"text":"第一件事情現行的學生會或是我們所謂的學生自治組織都是基於現行條文第33條第二項大學應輔導學生成立由全校學生選舉產生學生會在這個地方那我們可以發現大學法對於所謂學生會這一類的學生自治組織它所保障所規範的範疇相當薄弱"},{"start":8074.451,"end":8092.886,"text":"在我們所想像中的學生會不應該只是有增進學業能力不應該只有增進學習能力這個部分那我們更期待他可以代表學生群體參與校園的公共治理以及對等地位的共同決策效務那在這個部分他僅有輔導"},{"start":8095.899,"end":8107.033,"text":"大學應該要輔導學生成立那在現行的學生自治環境無疑來說是一大弊端除了人有聽見學校常常會干預學生資之外對於空間會費等等都沒有一定程度的保障"},{"start":8108.118,"end":8131.198,"text":"這也是台學聯這次呼籲修法的重點我們也提出了學生會專章希望透過這次大學法修法來保障學生自治的主體性學生會費的代收以及學生會獨立運作的空間為何獨立運作的空間是重要的我們認為一個組織的自治性以及自主性是否具有獨立且隱私的運作空間是非常重要的這也是我們一再呼籲學生會需要獨立空間的原因"},{"start":8133.134,"end":8142.803,"text":"那學生會費更是學生會穩定運作的重要來源我們也希望可以透過這次修法使各校學生會有更完善的財務來源也進而保障學生會的主體性"},{"start":8143.993,"end":8166.186,"text":"接著我們想要談談有關於校長遴選委員會的組成人員台學認為無論公私立學校其中學生代表人數不得低於兩人不得低於兩人且應該要更高我們現在認同這是現有版本裡面遴選委員會的相關內容在條文中有進行初步的規範以及限制但我們認為私立大學校長遴選委員會的占比分配應該可以更明確"},{"start":8166.986,"end":8180.274,"text":"台學院認為私立大學的領委會組成應該可以比照現行公立大學的規定有五分之二的校會會議推選代表五分之二的校友以及社會公正人士其餘委員由董事會出任確保大學裡面的各種聲音可以被重視"},{"start":8181.735,"end":8195.486,"text":"同時我們也認為不宜將最後的選選權交由董事會董事會與遴選委員會裡面已經有代表席次已經能夠可以充分反映董事會意見以及聲音因此台學聯主張董事會應該尊重遴選委員會的最終決議並且如決議報請效益不合準"},{"start":8198.291,"end":8210.917,"text":"另外我們認為在進入校長領選程序前校長候選人的參與資格應該可以透過教職員工生的同意權行使確保在進入專業領選程序前全體教職員工生可以有機會表達對校長選任的意見"},{"start":8214.378,"end":8239.142,"text":"目前部分大學像以我的學校為例台北大學就有相關程序的執行經驗以及案例我們認為在尊重大學自治的前提下這次修法也應該納入相關的規定並且由各校自行訂定執行程序以保障校園多數群體的意見表達以及公共參與第三點有關校務會議代表組成部分我們也應該認為應該要將學生代表比例提高現行制度下"},{"start":8240.72,"end":8263.295,"text":"學生縱然每位代表都有發言然而在表決的時候卻只有現行的一成而無法撼動決議導致學生代表在校務會議的重要性不高我們希望可以透過調高比例讓學生在校務會議上至少可以是被看見的存在之外比例應該也可以能夠至少召開臨時校務會議也就是五分之一的比例讓學生正式成為大學校園中可以決定事務的一股力量"},{"start":8264.676,"end":8287.354,"text":"至於有質疑認為學生代表比例過高可能會因為學生參與度不高導致留會,然而根據我們的觀察,學生參與的校務情況絕對不比老師差,而這也完全沒有考量到部分學校開會時間在期中週期末週的情況。有意無意讓學生的出席情況變差,在這樣的情況下說學生參與度不高,我認為這是非常不公平的說法。"},{"start":8288.424,"end":8316.449,"text":"大學法已經等了20年這20年以來大學法宛如失控的老車橫衝直撞讓高校現場充斥了各種亂象我相信在座的各位都有目共睹台學院也要在這邊呼籲教育部不要再拖了過去20年來大學法明明在朝野都有共識卻遲遲沒有修法很明顯就是因為教育部以拖待變停滯不前我們誠摯期盼教育部能夠承諾何時可以提出不版的大學法草案而不是每次都說三個月三個月最後拖了一年又一年"},{"start":8317.677,"end":8340.163,"text":"在座各位先進,大學法要收,現在在朝野應該是有共識的。我們也要在這邊再次呼籲教育部,配合立法院提出不凡草案,整合各方意見。最後也要感謝所有有提案的委員,舒平老師以及范雲委員,也期盼朝委可以在日後盡快排審、排詢答,再讓這部20年的老車早日回到正軌,讓高等教育可以在師生期待下邁向新的篇章。"},{"start":8341.479,"end":8368.087,"text":"套一句學聯的標語30年後的社會答案就在今日的校園高等教育的重要性對台灣的未來是頗具影響的我再次拜託在座各位委員教育部可以正視師生的理性訴求以及改革讓台灣的高等教育可以有更好的未來謝謝大家我是台灣學生聯合會理事長陳玉仁好謝謝玉仁理事長我們現在請黃立成中興大學的學生代表發言"},{"start":8374.016,"end":8400.905,"text":"請趙涵茄佛光大學校長準備主席 各位委員初列席師長先進及與會的青年學生夥伴們大家好我是來自中興大學研究生黃立成像一句詩開頭我們穿著鞋子思考與土地連結的思考我們戴著墨鏡理解與太陽的對話我們戴著耳機傾聽於海浪的聲音我們用著最貼近土地的方法渴望找到做正確的答案"},{"start":8401.945,"end":8418.715,"text":"這體現我們學生我們學生代表在第一線面對大學法修法時的態度我們貼近基層我們追求理性透明我們傾聽多元意見我們傳遞校園當中最真實的聲音別人認為無論是大學自治還是學生自治都應重新回歸到全校教職員工生的共同體"},{"start":8419.415,"end":8442.731,"text":"建高一個創造包容共榮共好的學生自治校園身為學生十分感念各位立委在一次次的修法版本中邁向新高校共同治理的方向而從中我們也看到了民主化的曙光但也必須指出其能有可持續優化以及調整之處那有盡於此必然訴求基礎仍然是師生父權終結專制落實師生共治的校園"},{"start":8443.812,"end":8463.61,"text":"以下將聚焦整個關鍵命題病校程序、校長遴選與校務會議學生代表以及學生空間提出修法的修正與彙整意見首先在第一點在第七條的修訂中必然能夠理解私立學校在病校當中的難處但整個過程中的難處與可行性其實並不見得是衝突的"},{"start":8464.47,"end":8489.58,"text":"僅僅是現行校務會議的表達意見其實難以展現師生在校園當中的主體性而唯有經透過校務會議的同意方式才能為各方爭取權益在體制內保障最小心態的解方接著第二點對於第九條校長遴選宵刊條文確保資訊透明與學生的實時參與是文的目標校長遴選是大學博化願景的開端那無論師生其實都不能排除在外"},{"start":8490.34,"end":8513.955,"text":"進一方向他因綜合程序透明代表務實的目標確保兩名臨選會的學生代表確保兩名臨選會的學生代表並透過學生會自行選舉或推派以確保代表他的公共性而在程序透明性上面採納多位委員對於臨選委員會的名單以及會議紀錄的強制公開規定並增訂同意權行使程序的法源徹底終結委員所詬病的黑箱狀況"},{"start":8515.851,"end":8537.826,"text":"再來是校務會議第15條的條文終結專制和主體賦權我們認為現行大學法第15條規定會造成行政主管教師代表混淆不清的現象是比比皆是而批人十分支持教師代表應由未兼任學術與行政主管職者擔任並務實採納民眾黨版的比例規定未兼任行政主管職務之教師代表"},{"start":8538.266,"end":8546.238,"text":"因不得少於教師代表總數之三分之二而這也將有效賦予了校園主體在會議中的角色能力真正交還給第一線"},{"start":8547.526,"end":8570.522,"text":"而除了限縮校務會議的人數,重中之重還是在於學生代表的比例。無論是陳身為國立台灣大學第十九屆的學生議會議長,還是國立中興大學現任校務會議代表,必能皆十分贊同提升比例,不能讓未來的二十年,十分之一的下限繼續成為天花板。望各位可以權衡積極考量學生人數還是占校園人數當中最大宗,審慎其比例。"},{"start":8571.463,"end":8599.263,"text":"接著第四點 學生賦權我們希望能夠落實完整而獨立的學生自治現行大學法第33條中的輔導二制其實常年為各方解釋所苦那甚至造就了校方在行政程序上面瑕疵抑或著學生會人事財務法制的干預開口因此 必然十分支持將學生會獨立自治原則入法而授權教育部明確列出定義哪些有關會議到底必須由學生代表出席"},{"start":8600.023,"end":8624.361,"text":"我們也呼籲採納專責提供最完整的法治基礎務實解決學生會帶出會費的基礎問題讓校方和學生會不再因為選舉財務以及組織運作產生相互糾葛而接著在學生空間上面經由校方提供獨立且可全時段的活動空間並肩負必要的修繕維護才能解決學生在參與校園發展以及組織有效運作的最最基本條件"},{"start":8625.342,"end":8637.251,"text":"而對於相關定義便也要傳遞需求對於有些版本當中會使用學生團體一詞其實應該要在附帶決議亦或者是法條說明中去明確的定義出來而非產生模糊空間"},{"start":8638.972,"end":8656.077,"text":"總結我很渴望找到做正確的答案是一部能真正保障學生父權終結專制以及落實共治的大學法以完善制度與程序確保師生共治運作公開透明並持續優化發展也呼籲所有學生代表在學制領域當中繼續保持著共榮共好"},{"start":8656.417,"end":8677.14,"text":"互信互惠的精神內部能夠維繫良好的運作機制同時與外部保持著良善的溝通管道爭取學生權益的最大化也懇請各方能夠放下成見肩負著對未來的責任對未來20年的校園環境責任以此回合心去彙整出一部符合需求的憲法版本謝謝各位 以上"},{"start":8679.482,"end":8703.851,"text":"好 謝謝黃立誠中興大學的代表我們現在請趙涵潔校長發言下一位張玉萌理事長請準備主席 教育部的官員 還有在座所有的先進這是我第二次來參加這個會議 公聽會"},{"start":8707.559,"end":8722.527,"text":"剛剛大家一直談到大學把20年沒休了我也突然猛然想起來大學的學雜費20年沒漲了所以其實很多事情都糾結在那裡相當久的時間了那"},{"start":8723.513,"end":8751.73,"text":"我這邊大概對於大學法大致要修訂方向其實我個人並沒有太多反對意見因為的確時代不一樣不能拿以前的一些思維來推論現在的一些做法想法但是我必須提醒一下就是在整個修法過程裡頭大家要去思量一下未來20年以後你修完大學法以後未來20年以後我們現在大學到底面臨的挑戰是什麼"},{"start":8752.901,"end":8779.389,"text":"其實我個人認為在整個修法過程裡頭私立學校其實可以不用太在意它我們現在私立學校尤其是二線的私立學校我們現在都在求生存不是在求生活是在求生存學生的意見絕對不可能忽視的任何學生只要意見到我的辦公室我們每一個都非常親自重視我還簽交剛剛有個意見千交代萬交代"},{"start":8780.009,"end":8798.735,"text":"教務長一定要以學生的權益跟規章來出發來符合他的期待所以現在因為在少子化氛圍裡頭尤其是二線的私立學校他們承受了非常大的招生的壓力不可能會去虧待學生的在任何的一個角度裡頭"},{"start":8801.041,"end":8817.376,"text":"只要教育部能夠把握住或要求住各個勢力學校在對於教學品質上的要求,我們現在說真的在二線勢力大學也不太期待老師做研究,我們能把學生教好最重要。"},{"start":8819.277,"end":8846.282,"text":"我相信每個私立學校都很願意努力的繼續生存下去我想我們整個的重點應該就是在公校我個人在公校服務了一段時間應該是有一些經驗可以跟在座的所有先進們分享一下的我們現在正面臨戰後的嬰兒潮所有的老師大概都在這五年十年會大量的退休說句實話我們現在找不到老師教授找不到老師"},{"start":8847.382,"end":8863.921,"text":"這些嬰兒潮退掉我們現在要聘大量老師進來的時候萬一各個學校沒有什麼樣的把關機制的話又會堵在那裡一堵是三四十年三十幾年那怎麼樣去在保障老師權益之下讓各個學校有一些"},{"start":8865.441,"end":8883.264,"text":"进步的空间要求老师的空间这其实是蛮重要的我们其实现在很多学校都不敢再推所谓的四六条款了六八条款了但是怎么办呢怎么去要求老师们在进度学校尤其进入公校以后继续把他的研究教学做到"},{"start":8883.985,"end":8913.405,"text":"社會國家的期望帶著公校能夠在世界的排名裡頭繼續往前前進這非常非常重要因為我看得出來我們現在公校的排名一直在往後退當然大家會說排名有時候是非常主觀性的我完全同意這個想法就像是考試我們一般考試總是要針對老師要考的方向去準備沒有人去針對老師說不要考的地方去看書這是很奇怪的事所以排名當然是有他準備的技巧可是"},{"start":8914.446,"end":8930.784,"text":"這麼多的排名裡頭 綜合來看台灣的大學排名是的確在往後退的所以怎麼樣把老師的競爭力往上拉在整個大學法這一次修法裡頭一定要善加的思維我們怎麼樣去淘汰一些真的不適任的學校老師到達"},{"start":8933.12,"end":8956.089,"text":"另外一個重點當然就是遴選校長我認為遴選校長機制裡頭有學生代表參與是好事但是他參與的人數還有最重要就是學生會會長要參與校務會議要參與校長遴選委員會我都沒有意見但是他們的當初的得票率可不可以要有一些限制"},{"start":8957.049,"end":8976.915,"text":"我以前服務的學校有些學生代表學生會他們得票率非常非常少大概一兩百票就當選了我們有一萬個學生所以這是不是要相對的去考量一下這是一定的這事情都是相對的那臨選校長裡頭我們好不容易選出一個校長以後"},{"start":8978.462,"end":9002.017,"text":"在他續任的時候上次我有見過教育部真的續任的時候應該要做一些把關你要是教育部能夠真的下去請這個民調公司做一些民調其實大致就可以知道這校長在任內的表現是怎樣或者是這個這個有一些有一些設計因為我常常知道有些校長一得到教育部的"},{"start":9003.622,"end":9021.577,"text":"認可的標記後就用突襲的方式提到校務會議提出討論一兩個禮拜就把投票通過基本上應該至少要有一個月公告讓大家沉靜下來知道校長要連任了要投票了讓大家真正沉思一下過去四年到底校長表現是如何"},{"start":9022.017,"end":9039.165,"text":"这是我对公校的一些看法那公校卓越私校生存应该是我们这一次大学法的修正应该是要很慎重的去考虑下去的否则这个20年以后说一句实话真的是天下围攻只剩下公立学校了我的报告到这里谢谢大家"},{"start":9041.598,"end":9070.605,"text":"好 謝謝趙校長的肺腑之言提出來說對公校跟私校裡面的看法我覺得蠻重要的也是因為這次的學校裡面這次代表裡面大學的校長或是高校的代表比較少那這部分真的有想要改革的話意見還是可以多元的發聲啦好 謝謝我們現在請張玉萌理事長發言洪聖祥常務理事請準備"},{"start":9079.365,"end":9100.858,"text":"主席各位委員還有教育部的代表還有今天在現場一起關注高教的好朋友們大家早安我是來自世代共好協會的理事長張玉萌很感謝今天可以以青年組織的身份在這邊在立法院針對我們的大學法提出修法的建議"},{"start":9102.179,"end":9122.498,"text":"其實我們一直以來想要強調的事情是台灣的大學治理早就已經不只是在過去談說行政或者是教師的領域而是必須要回應一個很重要的精神也就是高等教育其實在一個社會中扮演的角色應該是公共財剛剛看起來我們不同的代表"},{"start":9122.918,"end":9151.347,"text":"其实背景当然非常的多元来自公司立的大学也来自不同的团体可是从大学方或者是从校长或者是从学生代表其实看起来应该都有修法的共识而且这个也是回应到我们这20年来不断的追求所以其实我非常感谢今天刘淑冰委员赵伟安排这样的公听会因为赵伟看到在社会上面"},{"start":9151.727,"end":9173.752,"text":"不論是學校不論是校長不論是行政人員甚至從這些教師然後到學生修法或者是現在談大學法的改革看起來是最大的共識所以我們也希望立法院真的可以在這一屆可以來完成那我自己過去大學時期擔任台大學生會的學術部長"},{"start":9174.372,"end":9189.784,"text":"那當時正好正值台大的校長領選所以各位也都了解經歷了很多風風雨雨社會上面高度的關注但是這也讓學校裡面參與校務學生如何來持續的參與成為很重要激烈討論的一個標的"},{"start":9193.066,"end":9215.653,"text":"在校內有這樣高度的討論其實我們是樂見的不論是爭議與否學生可以持續來參與其實我們就認為非常的感謝過去我們看到從我自己在進入大學以前大學法就已經有呼聲應該要做改革等到我實際投入了學生會成為改革的倡議者大學法持續在立法院裡面討論到2022年一度"},{"start":9218.394,"end":9241.153,"text":"在立法院里面有四党之间跨党派的共识这是很难得的但是仍然功败垂成那我们看起来现在应该从刚刚发言的委员还有今天苏冰召委来安排这样的公听会我们也真的很希望这一届就是改革的一届第十一届就应该来让这样的大学法可以跟上时代因为过去这二十年来"},{"start":9242.134,"end":9259.657,"text":"社會有非常多重大的變遷包含我們的大學不同的合併也包含我們大學的退場也包含過去少子化對於大學造成海嘯般的衝擊但是這一部高教的母法至今仍然像是從侏羅紀時代穿越到現在跟不上時代"},{"start":9260.197,"end":9285.514,"text":"所以我基本上今天想要提四點大學法已經不容迴避的改革方向第一點剛剛各位先進已經有提過了是大學校長的領選委員會應該明文保障學生代表的席次讓大學的治理可以回歸公共性事實上目前全台灣的公立大學已經大概有七成讓學生參與校長領選然而校長是全校最重要公共治理的位置"},{"start":9285.794,"end":9309.236,"text":"但是現在卻沒有一個這樣明文保障學生的參與那導致各校的標準也不一所以我們強調說是時候應該讓校長遴選委員會有學生的參與而且是法規的明定大學本來就不是私人企業所以不管公私立的大學當然都接受了公共資源的挹注校長遴選的過程自然就不應該閉門造局其實如果縱觀歐陸頂尖的大學"},{"start":9311.358,"end":9337.177,"text":"87所的歐洲大學裡面30所學生代表已經占超過25%以上而學生占15%以下的學校只有11間反而是少數這個不是說外國的月亮比較圓在近年來大學的校長領選過程本來就很常受到社會高度的檢視甚至產生爭議學生卻沒有完整的參與管道難道排除學生的參與可以讓這樣的爭議自然化解嗎"},{"start":9337.757,"end":9352.924,"text":"第二重中之重就是提高校務會議的學生代表參與從現行的十分之一提高我們非常期待可以提高到五分之一甚至更高過去其實從高級中等教育法就已經參考大學法把學生的代表訂入母法"},{"start":9353.724,"end":9371.258,"text":"但是高中過去是因為參考大學定在下限是10%所以高中定8%但各級學校現在都已經往保障學生表一權前進20年沒修的大學法在這一次修法過程我認為完全沒有空間來迴避學生代表比例提高其實如果縱觀法國 荷蘭"},{"start":9373.24,"end":9392.928,"text":"挪威等等的國家學生參與本來就是常態而且在日常生活的這種分享權利過程中25%以上的代表權是常態是非常常見的所以在台灣我們參考現在大學的現狀5分之1甚至到4分之1已經是很卑微的要求那我們也認為說"},{"start":9394.429,"end":9421.719,"text":"不容迴避的還包含有學校裡面教師代表不應該兼任行政職那我們應該要來訂定這樣的法規明確的要求否則這是一個很嚴重的問題讓大學的實際校會會議的教師參與成為橡皮圖章第三我想要談的是學生會的專章訂定剛剛先進也已經提到了保障學生會的表意權以及複雜的學生自治型態所以簡單提三點第一點是應該要明確保障"},{"start":9422.119,"end":9440.596,"text":"學校有義務來代收學生會的會費因為學生本來就沒有這樣龐大的行政資源來支撐這樣的會費代收第二個應該要保障學生會的獨立運作空間那第三個應該要保障學生資組織的財務選舉等等人士受到法律明確保障不受行政單位的"},{"start":9441.517,"end":9463.403,"text":"個別決定那最後我想要談補充的一點是今天比較少提到的是應該要在大學法裡面就訂定大學住宿保障學生可以簽入戶籍那其實這個部分在金門已經長期的實施了因為金門的同學他要購買離島的這些船票機票等等他必須要有這樣的戶籍簽簽可是呢其實我們根據現在戶籍法"},{"start":9463.703,"end":9482.183,"text":"也應該要來保障這樣的權利但目前都沒有落實導致大學成為學生成為隱形的人口所以我們應該要在大學法裡面就來保障大學應該要允許學生來遷入戶籍並且不得拒絕以上那最後想要補充的是教育部的版本希望可以真的不要再拖延一旦"},{"start":9483.084,"end":9511.997,"text":"行政部門沒有提出具體的內容立法院跟社會期待都會被迫空轉那校園也會停留在20年前的過去所以我們也要強烈的呼籲教育部真的 拜託拜託務必在本會期就提出大學法修法的版本讓我們跟社會一起共同推進一步符合這個時代的大學法謝謝大家好 謝謝張理事長我們現在請最後一位發言是洪正祥常務理事"},{"start":9521.332,"end":9538.922,"text":"舒冰老師 各位在場的與會先進 大家好我是EDUS 台灣EDU教育協會的常務理事 洪正祥EDUS是由一群高中生和大學生組成的學生團體對我們來說 如何讓學生的聲音在教育現場被聽見是我們最在意 而且最核心的訴求我目前是東武大學學生議會的議長"},{"start":9540.003,"end":9565.532,"text":"那今天很高興能夠有機會在這邊參加大學法修法的公聽會其實早在去年11月的時候立法院就已經有舉辦相似議題的公聽會了但將近一年很高興看到跨黨派委員正式遞交草案內容但是行政院依然沒有送出有關大學法修法的院版那期待未來能夠儘速將這個法案覆為進行主條審查讓大學法將近20年的改革不再只是理想"},{"start":9566.687,"end":9589.729,"text":"那今天在場有很多來自不同組織或不同單位的學生是夥伴或前輩那在場只有一位我是來自思義大學的代表那我想先從這次草案中關於思義大學校長遴選的規定來做說明那目前的條文規定在公立大學的部分我們至少還能討論可能關於校長遴選委員會的選代表細詞但在思義大學來說校長遴選幾乎完全是董事會的閉門遊戲"},{"start":9591.15,"end":9616.512,"text":"也就是我們在所謂沒有學生代表的校長選委會選完這個校長候選人以後我們要送這個董事會圈選然後送他備查也就是董事會擁有最終的這個決定權讓這個私校董事會擁有決定權的狀況底下學生幾乎沒有智慧的餘地這也導致了現今某些私校容易成為可能特定家族或是某些特定團體的輸送利益的空間"},{"start":9617.353,"end":9635.818,"text":"那以我所在的東吳大學來說,就上一次校長的領選過程中,學校就已說因為我們快要領選了,所以這一次的校長領選暫時不加入學生代表,這是當時潘校長的決定。那等到了現在換了陳瞻校長,學校又說什麼?學校說因為我們離校長領選還有一段時間,所以我們暫時沒有要來討論有關校長領選會加入學生代表。"},{"start":9640.859,"end":9650.924,"text":"这个真的是拖了又拖然后各种理由都让学生代表迟迟没有办法进入校长领选委员会而辅仁大学其实还没有面临到相似的困境"},{"start":9652.165,"end":9678.273,"text":"那私校的学生其实不应该是学生参与校园的法位之地我们建议修法方向应该朝向公司力透过处理但标准向上看齐具体来说就是私立大学的校长领权委员会应强制纳入教职员生代表其比例应该至少有两名的学生代表更进一步来说让校园的学生的代表性能够对这个不适合校长候选人心事否决权这才是落实大学自治方度"},{"start":9678.553,"end":9692.294,"text":"私校特定家族化或者是利益输送的最有效的机制再来针对消费学生代表的部分那其实去年EDUS就在这个相同的场合表示支持学生代表应该有四分之一的比例那因为现实的状况底下"},{"start":9693.837,"end":9707.407,"text":"學生代表在各項會議中容易淪為裝飾性的橡皮圖章學生是教育的主體也是學校政策最關係的直接利害人其實我們除了賦權以外剛有提到Empower也要能夠賠利能夠賦能"},{"start":9712.318,"end":9731.229,"text":"更要給予他們支持那法案中對於校會議代表賠利跟賦能的部分我們建議未來除了青年署有舉辦相關的營隊以外也可以參考現行國教署在高中端的各項鼓勵措施或者是有關諮詢的方式那剛有提到有關學生代表出席的問題以我在東吳大學的經驗來說每兩週都要開行政會議那"},{"start":9735.111,"end":9762,"text":"甚至那个开会期间甚至是苏冰老师我上他那堂课的期间那常常需要来回不同校区而无论是行政会议学务会议甚至是校务会议其实他们都不见得会正行学生的开会时间这个原因其实就来自于学生如果没有办法出席的话行政单位也能照样开会那我们认为在有效提升校务及教务学务总务会议的选代表可以有效提升学生代表一方面的代表性和出席意愿"},{"start":9762.64,"end":9774.06,"text":"否則學生在極少數的代表之下有時要提案就像在做社會改革需要積極說服所以十分的困難再來談到學生自治的部分就是"},{"start":9775.316,"end":9803.183,"text":"其實因為時間的關係那我就快速帶過學生在二制組是常常被視為這個學校單位的附屬那我們希望現行的輔導二制在實務上可以改為可能協助就是不再被校方資一解釋為指導或者是管控因為我們常常看到比如說像我們在東吳大學的狀況底下我們在學生會費的代收或是學生空間的使用上其實都非常的困難我這邊舉一個例以學生會費代收的狀況來說東吳大學今年的會費是收了43萬但是台大跟政大都收了接近200萬"},{"start":9804.443,"end":9826.891,"text":"那這就是我們在先撇開學生會費的數額的問題但是在繳交比例上不同的方式就會有給予不同的學生會費的這個收學金額接下來再拉出來談一個部分就是剛有提到有關私立大學的部分我覺得可以特別提一下就是有關之前華夏科大並台科大的問題其實當時在病校的時候幾乎沒有徵詢華夏科大學生的意見"},{"start":9829.076,"end":9853.402,"text":"也給大家一個點來思考就從師大的學生會費案來做一個思考那現行的判例底下學生會長是可以針對每一位沒有繳學生的沒有繳會費的學生提出訴訟而且依據這個行政法院的判例是有高機率可以勝訴的那這種情況呢其實未來不見得不會發生所以其實提供必要的知識和法源依據其實對於保障學生會員或保障學生會員其實都是非常重要的也是保障他們繳費的這個權利跟義務那"},{"start":9857.762,"end":9862.861,"text":"那最後再提一點我覺得因為今天雨薇在場先進非常多那我想最後再提一點就是今天祭祀司剛好在場那"},{"start":9865.205,"end":9892.563,"text":"其实现在的这个假实习真廉价劳工的剥削这个状况还是很明显那尤其我们在新南向计划招了非常多这个来自不同国家的学生那其实剥削学生的新闻屡见不选那其实我们希望未来在学校与不同单位签订产业合作还有实习相关合约时应该强制纳入学生代表检视劳动环境合约内容高校治理不应该只是冷冰冰的绩效指标更应该看见活生生的学生处境那我们希望未来大学法可以"},{"start":9895.265,"end":9911.092,"text":"進行審查讓大學法的改革不再需要苦等20年而是一個從承認學生信任學生與學生共同治理大學的新開始謝謝各位好謝謝洪正祥常務理事現在請黃國昌委員發言"},{"start":9921.291,"end":9949.589,"text":"謝謝主席首先感謝這麼多關心學生自治的同學還有教授來參加這場公聽會必須要說在2025年的今天以立法委員的身份在教文委員會針對大學法的修正來發言我心裡有非常非常深的感觸過去我是大學生的時候"},{"start":9951.072,"end":9975.185,"text":"我們被教導的是大學跟學生之間彼此是特別權力關係學生所受到的處分必須要接受必須要服從不可以尋求司法的救濟當時還是法律系學生的我我只想問一個最簡單的問題為什麼有權力就有救濟的這件事情"},{"start":9976.71,"end":10004.088,"text":"在我國竟然變成特別權力關係難道只因為有一個德國學者叫做Otomaya他發明了這個理論台灣就要照單全收嗎接下來當我擔任台大學生會會長的時候這時候立法院在1993年審議大學法引發了學生非常高度的關注我們那時候關注什麼事情第一個"},{"start":10005.72,"end":10031.92,"text":"誰給教育部權利訂大學共同必修科目標第二個學生為什麼不能出席校務會議出席校務會議為什麼不需要有最低的代表第三個為什麼大學法對學生自治的規範密度幾乎是零沒有提供學生自治制度性的保障更遑論學生權利義務保護專章當年的這些抗爭"},{"start":10033.427,"end":10061.306,"text":"讓我們在立法院前面留下了遺憾非常多該處理的事情在1993年那一年大學法的修正完全沒有著墨完全沒有著墨就把整個戰場授權各個大學回到各個大學的組織規程開始訂定產生的就是學生跟教授的衝突這個是1993年12月"},{"start":10063.533,"end":10088.364,"text":"我帶著學生會的幹部跟關心學生自治的同學包圍台大行政大樓我們主張那一年的校務會議違法我們自己在外面開學生版的台大臨時校務會議那些年的衝撞我們只希望做到一件事讓大學自治不要稀薄成教授自教"},{"start":10090.082,"end":10106.172,"text":"讓大學自治能夠落實制度性的保障讓大學自治真的可以讓學生不僅僅是受教育的課題而是真正大學的主體"},{"start":10107.694,"end":10133.387,"text":"在經過了那麼漫長時間的抗爭以後到了現在2025年我們再來看目前的大學法令人遺憾的事情是20幾年的時間過去了20幾年時間過去了但是當年沒有完成的改革現在還繼續在原地踏步我大學畢業的那一年1995年"},{"start":10136.768,"end":10162.709,"text":"1995年那個時候大法官終於還給我們公道4至380說教育部沒有權利並共同必修科目標這是違憲的 侵害大學自治隔了一個月4至382廢除特別權利醫務關係讓學生受到退學及其他類似的處分的時候可以提起行政救濟"},{"start":10164.143,"end":10176.175,"text":"當然4-382以今天的角度來講還過度保守後來慢慢的被擴充後來慢慢的被變更但是學生在第一線"},{"start":10177.532,"end":10198.743,"text":"所遭遇到的困境第一線所遭遇到的困境不會因為可以提起司法救助而得到實質的改善2010年的時候有一個師大的學生他成立一個異議性的社團那個異議性的社團叫邊緣之聲學校開始刁難他所以你為什麼要從邊緣發聲你為什麼不從核心發聲"},{"start":10204.885,"end":10231.287,"text":"連社團的名稱都要管簡直是莫名其妙不准他用邊緣之稱來當作社團的名字那個時候我還是個學者對於他被寄過被退學的行政訴訟我義務擔任他的訴願代理人在教育部前面真實教育部"},{"start":10232.441,"end":10257.04,"text":"增值那所私立大學憑什麼有權利違法濫權剝奪這個學生的受教權當年的溯源贏了贏了以後這個學生的權利獲得救濟了嗎沒有溯源贏了把原處分撤銷撤銷回去以後給那個大學那個大學再做一次處分還是退學還是退學"},{"start":10258.835,"end":10279.14,"text":"這個是為什麼在法律層面的保障欠缺制度性的保障的時候學生在面對爭取學權的過程當中所遭遇到的困難所遭遇到的打壓活生生血淋淋的例子也正是因為如此這一次"},{"start":10280.273,"end":10304.32,"text":"台灣民眾黨針對大學法我們有提出具體的版本也有具體的修法主張那我也感謝我們部分區的委員劉書斌劉委員也是現在的召委領先提出我們的訴求非常的清楚校長遴選委員會要有學生代表校務會議的學生代表比例應該提高"},{"start":10306.317,"end":10327.41,"text":"落實學生自治 杜絕校方干預當然我們所提出來的草案或許在現在第一線大學的現場裡面或許有不周延 或許可以再補強這也是我們今天召委召開公聽會的初衷"},{"start":10328.413,"end":10352.201,"text":"那我們也歡迎也懇請所有關心大學法改革關心學生自治的朋友們對台灣民眾黨黨團的提案有哪些必須要修正有哪些必須要補強都歡迎各位先進各位老師各位同學不吝予以指教我們在接下來委員會審查的過程當中"},{"start":10353.061,"end":10369.011,"text":"在黨團協商的過程當中在我們提出最後版本之前台灣民眾黨都願意敞開心胸聆聽各界的指教跟建議謝謝大家好 謝謝黃國昌委員的發言"},{"start":10372.967,"end":10397.553,"text":"我們可以看出來整個立法的過程當中從1993年到現在的2025年當中經歷了將近三十多年的一個發展剛剛國商委員已經把這個歷程還有他自己本身參與到作為一個學生會的代表然後參加這整個歷程做了一個說明那也是呈現出來的一個"},{"start":10398.633,"end":10422.344,"text":"再度把本党的一个意见就是在于学校里面的校长临选一定要有学生的代表在此变一定要比例然后还有校务会议的代表当中的一个比例要提升另外还包括的是大学自治里面应该回到的是一个学校为主体而不是在属于教授自治这一部分"},{"start":10423.264,"end":10441.759,"text":"這樣子尤其是剛才也聽到的是趙校長有提到的很重要的是學生這部分的一個意見是在變成是學校裡面的主體性要呈現出來那當然我們剛才聽到是今天不只是說在代表的是各個委員的各個委員的聲音還包括的是各個黨都已經"},{"start":10443.78,"end":10472.96,"text":"知道的是最大的公司就是委員現在希望的是大學法一定到了應該要修的程度了二十幾年甚至三十年的一個歷程不能夠再等所以請教育部能夠等一下就應該要請的是朱市長你要做一個回覆做一個整體的回覆當中就說明到目前聽了眾多的意見代表包括立委的意見之後你們教育部有什麼樣的一個綜合的意見現在就請教育部"},{"start":10482.488,"end":10496.601,"text":"主席高委員還有各位女士先生大家好今天很高興有我們19位的委員跟來自於我們各界包含校長同學還有老師們的一個建議"},{"start":10497.842,"end":10525.646,"text":"那初步來看其實大家提的大概是五大類的問題一個部分是有關於校長遴選一個部分是有關於校務會議的一個角色第三個是有關於老師權益的保障第四個是有關學生自治的參與那最後當然還有個別委員提到了一些對於高校現場一些問題以及未來高校可以發展的一些機會想法措施大概是這五大類那因為"},{"start":10526.787,"end":10550.109,"text":"各位提的意見其實是相當的豐富而且都有提出相關的不管是國外的經驗現場的實務這部分第一個部分教育部這邊我們會承諾我們會根據各位提出來的這些意見我們會都會納入這一次因應劉淑冰委員還有方英委員提出來的版本教育部都會盡可能的來"},{"start":10551.27,"end":10574.632,"text":"纳入来找出一个大家可以接受的一个建议第二个部分就这四个面向我想主要大概就是在校长领选校务会议的定位以及老师跟学生权益保障这四个部分在谈这个四个部分之前我们可能还是可以先去思考一下就是说"},{"start":10575.413,"end":10598.61,"text":"大學的定位跟公私立學校角色的不同因為它就會影響到我們對於校長怎麼產生校會議跟校長董事會之間它的權責義務關係以及我們對於老師角色的一個期待還有對於學生自治參與我們應該予以重視大概就會衍生出來的這幾個想法"},{"start":10602.092,"end":10612.439,"text":"如果以我們對於大學的期待來講大學法一開始其實就講得很清楚它是培育人才提升文化服務社會學術研究來促進國家發展"},{"start":10615.066,"end":10631.358,"text":"在這樣的一個架構之下我們來看這是大學的一個任務角色它一個很大的不同如果我們要提到老師的保障它裡面剛剛其實也有雨薇先生提到研究這一塊其實可能是中小學這個部分"},{"start":10633.299,"end":10657.886,"text":"並不是他主要的一個任務之一但是在大學來講老師的研究能量服務社會的能量這個部分可能相對國中小會擔負更大的責任那這部分怎麼來兼顧老師的保障以及大學的發展剛剛其實趙校長也提出這樣類似的想法那這會可以作為我們未來在評估大學跟老師之間的權利與關係我們怎麼來看"},{"start":10659.673,"end":10666.649,"text":"第二個 大學的任務裡面其實也特別強調服務社會強調提升文化 培育人才"},{"start":10667.284,"end":10696.984,"text":"那这相对应的大概就是各位很重视的公共性的问题这个部分其实从公共性的角度来看我们就可以衍生出来说那我们对私立学校公私立学校之间的要求刚刚大家提到我们希望我们的大学的校长的临选公私立应该也要有一定的做法而不是让目前的私立学校的校长临选这么封闭"},{"start":10697.344,"end":10708.038,"text":"甚至說到校務會議的一些重要決議最後是董事會決定我想剛剛我們也老師跟同學都提出這樣看法這是一個很好的方向"},{"start":10709.585,"end":10731.545,"text":"因為以私立學校法來講 我們剛看的是大學法 私立學校法裡面第一條它開宗明義是什麼它提到的是要健全私人的辦學 然後去提升私校的公共性跟自主性公共性是其中私校法要提 但是它講的是提升"},{"start":10733.026,"end":10751.692,"text":"顯然他跟公立大學之間角色是不太一樣的所以剛剛提到的要讓董事會在校長遴選在校務的決定上賦予師生賦予社會比較高強度的社會的公開老師學生的參與提高公共性我想這個方向是沒有錯但是"},{"start":10752.572,"end":10767.659,"text":"也要留意並不是去取代董事會因為以私立校門來講他是要鼓勵一些私人心血這中間的一個尺寸可能就是我們在決定到底董事會跟老師學生在校長遴選之間參與這個角色是什麼"},{"start":10770.76,"end":10792.209,"text":"在校務會議裡面校長 董事會還有全校師生三者之間的權責關係是什麼這要一起去討論所以如果我們把它個別切開大家都可以提出很多的論述但是如果我們回到大學的角色定位回到公私立學校的一個角色定位其實大家講的都有道理"},{"start":10792.549,"end":10800.017,"text":"但是這之間的平衡這也是各位會覺得說交易部為什麼花很多時間在跟我們各個團體做討論因為這個部分其實"},{"start":10803.393,"end":10825.085,"text":"我們目前的討論很多有時候都比較會是在議題式的可是教育部我們嘗試的是要從整個大學的定位公司力的權責甚至校長 董事會 校會之間的劃分來做討論我跟各位舉一個例子在83年的全案修正再來是94年大學法全案修正"},{"start":10825.965,"end":10841.453,"text":"至少在校務會議這個部分就做了很大的調整如果各位可以去看83年的大選法跟94年的大選法校務會的角色他拿掉了一個東西學校的最高決策單位這是在83年校務會議到94年校務會議把"},{"start":10847.239,"end":10863.408,"text":"大學法把校務會議跟校長之間的權責做了一些更清楚的釐清當然這部分是不是做得更好這大家可以討論大家至少嘗試把以前的校長行政權跟校務會議以前校務會議是被認為是最高的決策機構那校長是什麼"},{"start":10865.103,"end":10883.761,"text":"所以这之间有汉格在94年修大学把它做了一个处理那我们今天对于大学校长角色对于校务会议的一个监督我们更有期许那我们要尝试建立一个新的治理角色可能不是只有在于学生代表的比例或是老师卫健行政代表比例"},{"start":10884.762,"end":10902.827,"text":"下場的權責要不要有一些調整如果我們要做這樣的一個評估的話我覺得這個可能是要比較通盤的來想我覺得這幾年在大學法這邊有點卡關就是說我們可能目前都只想到幾個議題但是可能我們再要回歸去設想我們期待未來"},{"start":10903.527,"end":10928.358,"text":"下一個世代30年的大學那校長校務會議之間的關係是怎麼樣這點我覺得我們也可以教育部我們也會來做一些研究提供給我們老師同學跟校長的一個參考那最後我也提到到學生自治參與這一塊我想這一塊是教育部高度認可也期待來做青年署也一直努力的在嘗試來做"},{"start":10929.378,"end":10947.129,"text":"那要不要入法當然我覺得這是一個期待也是我們應該努力的方向那比如說提到的學生會它的規章人事空間產生等等我想我也跟我們幾個學生團體代表都談過"},{"start":10948.49,"end":10965.657,"text":"修法我們一定會朝這個方向來努力但是大學也提出大學的一些他們的觀察比如說代表性的問題學生參與的問題但是我必須說這就如同像我們幾位會長講的這就是雞生蛋 蛋生雞你沒給他"},{"start":10967.845,"end":10986.436,"text":"決策權你沒給他賦權他當然學生的參與意願就是低那這個部分怎麼去跳出跳出這一個循環這也是我們可能接下來要跟同學一起來做思考的我想比較細部的一個條件的一個一個措施的回應我在這邊"},{"start":10987.877,"end":11008.102,"text":"沒有辦法逐一的跟各位代表說明但是我接下來會部裡面我們因為已經有兩個版本在這邊我也期待教育部趕快來中整大家的意見提出一些具體的建議我想各位提的這些問題我們應該會在接下來的時間會盡快的跟各位與會先進做討論以上報告"},{"start":11011.052,"end":11028.61,"text":"好 謝謝朱市長的發言那我剛才綜合一下就在於說現在是校長的這個角色當然也涉及到跟他職權是有關係的第二個部分就是公資力大學"},{"start":11030.332,"end":11046.581,"text":"它的設立的目的性有差異性不過剛才聽到佛光大學的校長他也提到了一個部分如果在一個前提之下是少子化會公併私的條件會成熟的話那這個部分可能問題會比較小一點點"},{"start":11048.722,"end":11072.233,"text":"那我知道如果教育部已经往这个方向讲的话应该我们是希望说你也知道了几十年来就是二三十年来就是往这个方向进行是不是在这边可能也应该我想应该有一个实诚性也许我们透过一个在询答部分的一个过程当中再把你们应该是已经有所准备只是这部分我刚才说那个趋势是方向是"},{"start":11073.902,"end":11096.572,"text":"公併司的話是可能會預見出來的話那校長的職權上面當然公跟司會有差別但是如果有公併司的話這個部分董事會的角色在這邊是重要但是怎麼樣去讓他調和這部分尤其是學生剛才都呈現出來學生的部分也是學費的一個最主要的來源那教育部他當然也是重要的在有經費讓人補助到學校"},{"start":11097.392,"end":11127.112,"text":"可是在公跟司這邊教育部如果沒問題學生又是最主要的學費的來源的話那這兩個其實就有很大的一個最大的目的最大的兩顆還群體就是在經費上面補助這樣就可以讓董事會有一些更多的一個目標性的指引所以我想說下一次的情況之下就是應該會往期待教育部跟有這個院版或是至少教育部我們看到的是有些教育部的意見版就會出現然後繼續的往後面的尋答方向去進行"},{"start":11127.552,"end":11152.442,"text":"可能這一屆的一個提出最後的就是有個修法的一個成果應該是可以預期當然我們需要說現在才第四會期但是我們希望可能在這個會期可能不曉得但是問題是下一個會期應該是有機會這一部分好就是這樣子那現在如果沒有什麼意見那我們現在這一次的會議呢我就做一下一個結語"},{"start":11154.537,"end":11169.715,"text":"依據立法院職權行使法第58條規定委員會應該在公聽會的10日內依照出席者所提供的正反意見提出公聽會報告送交本院全體委員及出席者第59條規定公聽會報告作為審查該特定議案的參考"},{"start":11174.441,"end":11200.734,"text":"來作為議案的參考那我們會把各位的發言意見跟所有的書面資料綜合歸納會編成冊送交本院的全體委員及所有出席與會貴賓今天就非常感謝各位的出席來公聽會我們大家所提供的寶貴意見包括我們還包括教育部都會審慎的作為未來修法的依據那就謝謝大家今天的參與辛苦了謝謝"},{"start":11208.39,"end":11210.741,"text":"大家合照嗎大家到這邊合照嗎"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}