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拉起來以後"},{"start":323.1,"end":325.1,"text":"人就變不一樣了"},{"start":325.1,"end":328.1,"text":"因為在外面畢竟天高皇帝遠"},{"start":328.1,"end":333.1,"text":"我們所有的層層的主管沒有辦法一一的去掌控"},{"start":333.1,"end":335.1,"text":"那其實他又是一個比較封閉的"},{"start":335.1,"end":338.1,"text":"我們在所有駐外館處裡面"},{"start":338.1,"end":340.1,"text":"其實他的人員並不多"},{"start":340.1,"end":342.1,"text":"大家是非常的辛苦沒有錯"},{"start":342.1,"end":346.1,"text":"可是在底下基層的這些外交人員"},{"start":346.1,"end":348.1,"text":"其實他們的工作更辛苦"},{"start":348.1,"end":350.1,"text":"因為所有大大小小的事情"},{"start":350.1,"end":352.1,"text":"都是由他們要來做"},{"start":352.1,"end":354.1,"text":"所以就這幾個部分"},{"start":354.1,"end":356.1,"text":"我們在這裡還是要提出來"},{"start":356.1,"end":360.1,"text":"因為包括像我們看到比較嚴重的幾個"},{"start":360.1,"end":362.1,"text":"像日內瓦辦事處這個"},{"start":362.1,"end":364.1,"text":"都可以拒免"},{"start":364.1,"end":366.1,"text":"剛剛有提到說拒免或不拒免"},{"start":366.1,"end":370.1,"text":"如果拒免他真的可以得到解決嗎"},{"start":370.1,"end":372.1,"text":"這是大家擔心的"},{"start":372.1,"end":374.1,"text":"剛剛有提到其實他是比較封閉的"},{"start":374.1,"end":378.1,"text":"而且是比較小眾的一個辦事的範圍"},{"start":378.1,"end":381.1,"text":"所以他如果拒免"},{"start":381.1,"end":387.1,"text":"萬一如果沒有獲得一個很好的處理或解決的時候"},{"start":387.1,"end":390.1,"text":"那對他們未來是有很大的影響"},{"start":390.1,"end":393.1,"text":"這是大家為什麼不敢拒免的一個很重要的原因"},{"start":393.1,"end":394.1,"text":"剛剛部長也有提到"},{"start":394.1,"end":396.1,"text":"如果不拒免其實我們還是會處理"},{"start":396.1,"end":400.1,"text":"可是我們更希望其實是更用審慎的態度去處理"},{"start":400.1,"end":402.1,"text":"如果大家會提到"},{"start":402.1,"end":405.1,"text":"因為像過去在早期的年代"},{"start":405.1,"end":407.1,"text":"我們提到教育好了"},{"start":407.1,"end":410.1,"text":"以前老師那種打罵掉起來打"},{"start":410.1,"end":412.1,"text":"或者藤條怎麼抽"},{"start":412.1,"end":415.1,"text":"那時候好像時空見慣回去還會挨父母的打"},{"start":415.1,"end":418.1,"text":"可是現在連責罵已經都不行了"},{"start":418.1,"end":421.1,"text":"所以像我們現在霸凌的標準"},{"start":421.1,"end":423.1,"text":"應該要怎麼樣去拿捏"},{"start":423.1,"end":425.1,"text":"甚至我們先舉幾個"},{"start":425.1,"end":428.1,"text":"就是日內瓦辦事處現在這個"},{"start":428.1,"end":432.1,"text":"可能必須要做比較審慎的調查"},{"start":432.1,"end":436.1,"text":"另外駐美代表余大雷夫婦的這個部分"},{"start":436.1,"end":440.1,"text":"我們好像也沒有特別說有什麼樣的情況發生"},{"start":440.1,"end":446.1,"text":"可是事實上在有這麼多的人員調職"},{"start":446.1,"end":448.1,"text":"或者更換的情況底下"},{"start":448.1,"end":451.1,"text":"或者其他相關大家都已經提出一些市政"},{"start":451.1,"end":457.1,"text":"我們還有另外就是在駐巴西聖保羅辦事處"},{"start":457.1,"end":461.1,"text":"就是王組長墜樓身亡的這個事件"},{"start":461.1,"end":464.1,"text":"我們當時外交部我們在查查的時候"},{"start":464.1,"end":466.1,"text":"也說霸凌沒有成立"},{"start":466.1,"end":469.1,"text":"可是事實上到最後可能處長他是被"},{"start":469.1,"end":471.1,"text":"依貪污治罪條例起訴"},{"start":471.1,"end":473.1,"text":"他被起訴這過程當中"},{"start":473.1,"end":477.1,"text":"跟這個組長其實也是有一些事件是相關聯的"},{"start":477.1,"end":480.1,"text":"是不是有在和蕭的情況底下"},{"start":480.1,"end":482.1,"text":"有被做不當的要求等等"},{"start":482.1,"end":486.1,"text":"那這些其實在在都顯示我們當時在處理這個"},{"start":486.1,"end":490.1,"text":"霸凌的這個調查也是也是"},{"start":490.1,"end":494.1,"text":"尾外的這些專家學者可是他們卻沒有成立"},{"start":494.1,"end":498.1,"text":"我們看到這麼多還有另外就是"},{"start":498.1,"end":505.1,"text":"今年在4月份駐波士頓台北經濟辦事處這個"},{"start":505.1,"end":509.1,"text":"處長這個也是長期霸凌部署的這個部分"},{"start":509.1,"end":511.1,"text":"我想這些都是有見報"},{"start":511.1,"end":513.1,"text":"而且都有受到高度的關注"},{"start":513.1,"end":517.1,"text":"可是我們幾乎都沒有成立的情況底下"},{"start":517.1,"end":521.1,"text":"那還有人敢好好的去做這樣子的一個"},{"start":521.1,"end":525.1,"text":"提出或相關的這些申訴嗎"},{"start":525.1,"end":529.1,"text":"報告委員因為現在所謂霸凌"},{"start":529.1,"end":531.1,"text":"這些是違法行為"},{"start":531.1,"end":534.1,"text":"我們當然透過教育要讓我們的同仁都了解"},{"start":534.1,"end":536.1,"text":"那怎麼營造好的工作環境"},{"start":536.1,"end":539.1,"text":"然後改善過去不良的工作文化"},{"start":539.1,"end":544.1,"text":"那當然我們必須要把法律上面的權益"},{"start":544.1,"end":546.1,"text":"對同仁的保障做好包括申訴"},{"start":546.1,"end":550.1,"text":"那另外是有一些怎麼樣去讓工作環境"},{"start":550.1,"end":556.1,"text":"可以減少這種高壓下的一種對人的不尊重"},{"start":556.1,"end":557.1,"text":"甚至霸凌"},{"start":557.1,"end":561.1,"text":"那我說整體來講當然要與時俱進"},{"start":561.1,"end":563.1,"text":"因為那個環境我們怎麼去改善"},{"start":563.1,"end":565.1,"text":"它要有一個過程"},{"start":565.1,"end":569.1,"text":"所以我們就建立了當然職場的一些就是說"},{"start":569.1,"end":572.1,"text":"去的方法"},{"start":572.1,"end":576.1,"text":"那我們讓大家信任我們外交部長"},{"start":576.1,"end":578.1,"text":"即使你是居民或是沒有居民"},{"start":578.1,"end":580.1,"text":"只要是有事實我們都會辦理"},{"start":580.1,"end":582.1,"text":"但是我們會保密"},{"start":582.1,"end":585.1,"text":"那在這個時候如果一個我們過去的"},{"start":585.1,"end":587.1,"text":"駐外的館長"},{"start":587.1,"end":589.1,"text":"比如說或者是長官"},{"start":589.1,"end":594.1,"text":"也許過去這個培養形式的一些作風"},{"start":594.1,"end":597.1,"text":"現在是要很容易我們要去教育他們"},{"start":597.1,"end":598.1,"text":"然後也要有一個申訴管道"},{"start":598.1,"end":601.1,"text":"最後還是要改善整個工作環境"},{"start":601.1,"end":603.1,"text":"讓大家不要隨時處於一種"},{"start":603.1,"end":607.1,"text":"就是一種非常高壓的一種人際關係下"},{"start":607.1,"end":608.1,"text":"部長因為時間的關係"},{"start":608.1,"end":610.1,"text":"我們現在要說的是"},{"start":610.1,"end":612.1,"text":"今天如果有同仁提出來表示"},{"start":612.1,"end":614.1,"text":"他們覺得受到影響"},{"start":614.1,"end":617.1,"text":"那這些影響都必須要去重視"},{"start":617.1,"end":621.1,"text":"因為如果我們全部都不成立的情況底下"},{"start":621.1,"end":622.1,"text":"會讓人家覺得"},{"start":622.1,"end":627.1,"text":"這個可能有更大的一個勢力在保護他們"},{"start":627.1,"end":629.1,"text":"因為所以他可以更肆無忌憚"},{"start":629.1,"end":630.1,"text":"因為他怎麼做都沒有關係"},{"start":630.1,"end":634.1,"text":"今天外交的業務在都是在國外"},{"start":634.1,"end":637.1,"text":"有很多外交的事務是非常繁雜"},{"start":637.1,"end":639.1,"text":"而且也沒有辦法真的沒有辦法"},{"start":639.1,"end":642.1,"text":"像我們說愛朝九晚五"},{"start":642.1,"end":643.1,"text":"或者有什麼樣的那個"},{"start":643.1,"end":646.1,"text":"是應該要怎麼樣去做這些協調工作"},{"start":646.1,"end":648.1,"text":"或者不應該有無理的要求"},{"start":648.1,"end":651.1,"text":"所謂的無理要求是讓他們做違法的事情"},{"start":651.1,"end":655.1,"text":"這已經非常愉悅的這個本分"},{"start":655.1,"end":659.1,"text":"這可能也不是說過去的習慣怎麼樣"},{"start":659.1,"end":661.1,"text":"所以這個部分我們特別提出來"},{"start":661.1,"end":663.1,"text":"我們也希望因為林部長您"},{"start":663.1,"end":666.1,"text":"現在是外交部最高的這樣的主管"},{"start":666.1,"end":668.1,"text":"你也是他們的大家長"},{"start":668.1,"end":672.1,"text":"每一位他們在進來外交部服務都非常的不容易"},{"start":672.1,"end":675.1,"text":"不是只有這些處長或所謂的館長"},{"start":676.1,"end":679.1,"text":"還有更多的基層的這些外交人員"},{"start":679.1,"end":682.1,"text":"其實他們在工作的場域都非常不容易"},{"start":682.1,"end":684.1,"text":"你更應該要保護他們"},{"start":684.1,"end":686.1,"text":"如果有外力介入的時候"},{"start":686.1,"end":690.1,"text":"我想你更應該可以提供更大的肩膀"},{"start":690.1,"end":692.1,"text":"這個部分我們要在這裡特別提出來"},{"start":692.1,"end":695.1,"text":"另外再用一點點時間就是說"},{"start":695.1,"end":700.1,"text":"我們這一次針對WTO沒有辦法參加的事情"},{"start":700.1,"end":702.1,"text":"依據外交部對外的新聞稿"},{"start":702.1,"end":704.1,"text":"是說我們已經有嚴正抗議"},{"start":704.1,"end":707.1,"text":"卡麥龍才正式我國以正確的身分尊嚴"},{"start":707.1,"end":711.1,"text":"參與應有的權利"},{"start":711.1,"end":713.1,"text":"而且我們繼續提出來"},{"start":713.1,"end":718.1,"text":"所以我們代表團可以獲得豁免簽證的補救措施"},{"start":718.1,"end":720.1,"text":"可是到最後"},{"start":720.1,"end":724.1,"text":"卡麥龍提出了這些補救的措施以後"},{"start":724.1,"end":727.1,"text":"我們還是沒有參加"},{"start":727.1,"end":729.1,"text":"我想要請教到底為什麼"},{"start":729.1,"end":731.1,"text":"因為他那個名詞錯了"},{"start":731.1,"end":735.1,"text":"我們的駐WTO使他的綜合判斷"},{"start":735.1,"end":738.1,"text":"會是要求更改說會來不及"},{"start":738.1,"end":740.1,"text":"當時OTN也有整體判斷"},{"start":740.1,"end":741.1,"text":"有多少個人錯"},{"start":741.1,"end":743.1,"text":"還有幾個是對的"},{"start":743.1,"end":747.1,"text":"就一個是對的其他名詞都是物質"},{"start":747.1,"end":751.1,"text":"那物質他沒有辦法即時去修正嗎"},{"start":751.1,"end":753.1,"text":"因為名詞物質其實不是很困難的事情"},{"start":753.1,"end":757.1,"text":"往返需要飛機時間等等他們的判斷"},{"start":757.1,"end":761.1,"text":"是屬於幾乎是來不及的時間"},{"start":761.1,"end":763.1,"text":"部長我在這裡要特別提出來"},{"start":763.1,"end":767.1,"text":"他已經是有豁免簽證的這些文件"},{"start":767.1,"end":769.1,"text":"他現在我們用的是說"},{"start":769.1,"end":773.1,"text":"我們有一些錯誤資訊的這些文件"},{"start":773.1,"end":774.1,"text":"要進入卡麥龍"},{"start":774.1,"end":778.1,"text":"我想這個部分我們應該這要即時去修正"},{"start":778.1,"end":779.1,"text":"都沒有很大的困難"},{"start":779.1,"end":782.1,"text":"可是我們去選擇沒有出席"},{"start":782.1,"end":785.1,"text":"這個通盤評估聽起來好像就是"},{"start":785.1,"end":787.1,"text":"黃昭元大使他的決定"},{"start":787.1,"end":791.1,"text":"所以他到底有沒有衡量"},{"start":791.1,"end":793.1,"text":"到底有沒有衡量"},{"start":793.1,"end":798.1,"text":"如果來得及我們跑都飛都要到"},{"start":798.1,"end":802.1,"text":"所以我們出席就是我們才是正正的目的"},{"start":802.1,"end":804.1,"text":"我要提醒一個對"},{"start":804.1,"end":806.1,"text":"因為有一個你剛剛有提到"},{"start":806.1,"end":808.1,"text":"至少有一個他的資訊是正"},{"start":808.1,"end":810.1,"text":"他所有的資料是正確"},{"start":810.1,"end":813.1,"text":"那一個也可以代表我們出席這個會議"},{"start":813.1,"end":815.1,"text":"因為我們每年編了非常高額的預算"},{"start":815.1,"end":816.1,"text":"參加WTO"},{"start":816.1,"end":822.1,"text":"而且WTO是我們目前唯一可以很正式的發生的一個重要的平台"},{"start":822.1,"end":825.1,"text":"可是我們卻選擇沒有出席"},{"start":825.1,"end":827.1,"text":"而且是第一次選擇沒有出席"},{"start":827.1,"end":830.1,"text":"我們在所有的這些場域底下"},{"start":830.1,"end":832.1,"text":"我們是怎麼樣評估的"},{"start":832.1,"end":834.1,"text":"他的輕重輕重"},{"start":834.1,"end":839.1,"text":"其實我覺得好像這個由個人的選擇或判斷"},{"start":839.1,"end":842.1,"text":"犧牲掉我們一個很大的權益"},{"start":842.1,"end":846.1,"text":"所以這個部分我們要求在未來"},{"start":846.1,"end":848.1,"text":"因為這個是非常遺憾的事情"},{"start":848.1,"end":851.1,"text":"今天如果說有一個助團的大使"},{"start":851.1,"end":854.1,"text":"他因為他8月底會回來對不對"},{"start":854.1,"end":856.1,"text":"8月底"},{"start":856.1,"end":862.1,"text":"還要陪同海基跟貝里斯的大使要回台灣"},{"start":862.1,"end":869.1,"text":"所以我們的外交部的預算其實也沒有什麼匱乏"},{"start":869.1,"end":871.1,"text":"他想要回來還是可以回來"},{"start":871.1,"end":875.1,"text":"黃教練大使有必要好好的對全體國人解釋說明"},{"start":875.1,"end":880.1,"text":"當我們一直關切國際經貿談判人才斷層之際"},{"start":880.1,"end":883.1,"text":"我們之前也發生了非常遺憾"},{"start":883.1,"end":887.1,"text":"就是我們的楊總談判代表"},{"start":887.1,"end":890.1,"text":"其實他的霸凌案是成立的"},{"start":890.1,"end":893.1,"text":"所以這個部分其實為什麼會受到重視"},{"start":893.1,"end":895.1,"text":"我相信部長也非常清楚"},{"start":895.1,"end":898.1,"text":"那我們在這個部分"},{"start":898.1,"end":902.1,"text":"我們選擇放棄台灣在國際經貿平台上面發生的集會"},{"start":902.1,"end":905.1,"text":"我覺得這真的是造成非常大的損失"},{"start":905.1,"end":909.1,"text":"而且也對我們未來可能也會造成衝擊"},{"start":909.1,"end":911.1,"text":"如果你一而再再而三"},{"start":911.1,"end":914.1,"text":"如果還有其他的主辦國也照這樣的模式"},{"start":914.1,"end":915.1,"text":"那我們是不是都不參加"},{"start":915.1,"end":918.1,"text":"我們過去也常常在講說我們退出聯合國以後"},{"start":918.1,"end":920.1,"text":"我們的位置就被佔了"},{"start":920.1,"end":923.1,"text":"如果我們現在採取這樣的模式"},{"start":923.1,"end":927.1,"text":"我覺得對我們來說可能也會造成後續一個很大的影響"},{"start":927.1,"end":930.1,"text":"那這個部分有必要請黃大使回來的時候"},{"start":930.1,"end":932.1,"text":"也必須對國人說清楚"},{"start":932.1,"end":933.1,"text":"反正他要回來了"},{"start":933.1,"end":935.1,"text":"我稍微回應一下委員"},{"start":935.1,"end":938.1,"text":"因為我也相當認同委員的意見"},{"start":938.1,"end":940.1,"text":"對方有錯"},{"start":940.1,"end":942.1,"text":"包括主辦國柯麥龍"},{"start":942.1,"end":944.1,"text":"我們抗議也有效"},{"start":944.1,"end":947.1,"text":"在這個時候當然我們要爭取抗議中參與"},{"start":947.1,"end":949.1,"text":"那因為有一些程序上的問題"},{"start":949.1,"end":951.1,"text":"我們需要全力來克服"},{"start":951.1,"end":954.1,"text":"我認為台灣的外交處境很困難"},{"start":954.1,"end":957.1,"text":"並不是對方打壓我們就抗議而已"},{"start":957.1,"end":960.1,"text":"在抗議中要能夠去參與"},{"start":960.1,"end":962.1,"text":"那要是不凸顯問題"},{"start":962.1,"end":964.1,"text":"這可能會形成一些對不對"},{"start":964.1,"end":965.1,"text":"對方就得寸進尺"},{"start":965.1,"end":967.1,"text":"那我們也這次得到各國的支持"},{"start":967.1,"end":969.1,"text":"因為這個發生在WTO"},{"start":969.1,"end":972.1,"text":"大家都覺得是很錯誤的事情"},{"start":972.1,"end":974.1,"text":"所以我們是有道理"},{"start":974.1,"end":976.1,"text":"可是怎麼樣在做法上"},{"start":976.1,"end":980.1,"text":"如果時間上或者是說各種可能性"},{"start":981.1,"end":984.1,"text":"我想這個事情要做一些來檢視看"},{"start":984.1,"end":985.1,"text":"怎麼樣能夠"},{"start":985.1,"end":988.1,"text":"我們最重要的就是能夠參與"},{"start":988.1,"end":991.1,"text":"國際很多的像這樣子的一個會議"},{"start":991.1,"end":993.1,"text":"尤其WTO是非常不容易的"},{"start":993.1,"end":995.1,"text":"這也是我們現在存在的"},{"start":995.1,"end":998.1,"text":"一個最重要的一個組織"},{"start":998.1,"end":1002.1,"text":"所以如果說我們自己選擇退出不參與"},{"start":1002.1,"end":1005.1,"text":"那未來他們其他就可以"},{"start":1005.1,"end":1007.1,"text":"按照這樣的模式複製下去"},{"start":1007.1,"end":1010.1,"text":"因為我們最重要的就是參與"},{"start":1010.1,"end":1012.1,"text":"當你自己都沒有參與的時候"},{"start":1012.1,"end":1015.1,"text":"用這樣的理由你下次還是會碰到"},{"start":1015.1,"end":1017.1,"text":"所以這個部分我們這一次在這裡提醒"},{"start":1017.1,"end":1020.1,"text":"是希望怎麼樣去應付或克服"},{"start":1020.1,"end":1022.1,"text":"這樣的一個狀況發生"},{"start":1022.1,"end":1024.1,"text":"而不是我們自己就不參加"},{"start":1024.1,"end":1027.1,"text":"你如果說像我們因為民生的關係"},{"start":1027.1,"end":1031.1,"text":"我們台灣現在是簽證還有入境"},{"start":1031.1,"end":1033.1,"text":"還有所有這些行政上的"},{"start":1033.1,"end":1037.1,"text":"認認入境在我們的技術上面"},{"start":1037.1,"end":1038.1,"text":"其實它都是可以克服的"},{"start":1038.1,"end":1040.1,"text":"當然我們自己也常常出國"},{"start":1040.1,"end":1042.1,"text":"你即使一般平民老百姓要出國"},{"start":1042.1,"end":1045.1,"text":"有什麼樣可能有一些務實的時候"},{"start":1045.1,"end":1047.1,"text":"其實他再做一個即時的調整就好了"},{"start":1047.1,"end":1049.1,"text":"更何況剛剛你也提到"},{"start":1049.1,"end":1051.1,"text":"我們還有人是正確的資訊"},{"start":1051.1,"end":1053.1,"text":"如果他可以代表我們出席"},{"start":1053.1,"end":1055.1,"text":"你就不應該放棄這樣的機會"},{"start":1055.1,"end":1057.1,"text":"這是我們111要求"},{"start":1057.1,"end":1059.1,"text":"他們當然說明是因為時間上來不及"},{"start":1059.1,"end":1060.1,"text":"即使他改過"},{"start":1060.1,"end":1062.1,"text":"但是我認為說"},{"start":1062.1,"end":1064.1,"text":"我們還是要盡一些可能"},{"start":1064.1,"end":1066.1,"text":"去再抗議一種參與"},{"start":1066.1,"end":1068.1,"text":"他這個有錯"},{"start":1068.1,"end":1071.1,"text":"我們是他這個打壓我們有錯"},{"start":1071.1,"end":1072.1,"text":"我們抗議有效"},{"start":1072.1,"end":1075.1,"text":"那這個中間地帶怎麼樣去積極參與"},{"start":1075.1,"end":1077.1,"text":"就是委員剛剛提醒我們會來加強"},{"start":1077.1,"end":1079.1,"text":"部長 委員會對舉辦國來說"},{"start":1079.1,"end":1082.1,"text":"有錯對他們來說無關痛癢"},{"start":1082.1,"end":1083.1,"text":"可是我們沒有參加"},{"start":1083.1,"end":1086.1,"text":"對我們來說是非常非常嚴重的損失"},{"start":1086.1,"end":1088.1,"text":"這攸關我們在國際"},{"start":1088.1,"end":1090.1,"text":"我們發生的機會"},{"start":1090.1,"end":1092.1,"text":"是 我們會努力"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}