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ext":"檢視判決本身不需要檢察官同意"},{"start":974.2,"end":976.2,"text":"法官就直接下檢視判決"},{"start":976.2,"end":978.2,"text":"秘書長"},{"start":978.2,"end":980.2,"text":"其實"},{"start":980.2,"end":982.2,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":982.2,"end":984.2,"text":"我時間到了"},{"start":984.2,"end":986.2,"text":"我們要跟你們一起辭了"},{"start":986.2,"end":988.2,"text":"現在問題是"},{"start":988.2,"end":990.2,"text":"你事後現在跟法務部"},{"start":990.2,"end":992.2,"text":"跟你們的意見分歧"},{"start":992.2,"end":994.2,"text":"可是跟委員報告"},{"start":994.2,"end":996.2,"text":"委員也很了解在刑事案件裡面"},{"start":996.2,"end":998.2,"text":"哪些是小案件"},{"start":998.2,"end":1000.2,"text":"小案件的部分我們還是在寫判決"},{"start":1000.2,"end":1002.2,"text":"其實剛剛"},{"start":1002.2,"end":1004.2,"text":"次長講的"},{"start":1004.2,"end":1006.2,"text":"其實對一個稍微複雜的法官"},{"start":1006.2,"end":1008.2,"text":"要用這個可能性會很低"},{"start":1008.2,"end":1010.2,"text":"我們現在來看"},{"start":1010.2,"end":1012.2,"text":"其實我們大部分"},{"start":1012.2,"end":1014.2,"text":"那個刑事案件小案件占很多"},{"start":1014.2,"end":1016.2,"text":"我們從上訴率來看"},{"start":1016.2,"end":1018.2,"text":"就可以知道"},{"start":1018.2,"end":1020.2,"text":"其實我們只是要檢審"},{"start":1020.2,"end":1022.2,"text":"被告認罪犯罪事實"},{"start":1022.2,"end":1024.2,"text":"可以說將來看"},{"start":1024.2,"end":1026.2,"text":"他的發展他絕對不會"},{"start":1026.2,"end":1028.2,"text":"是一個"},{"start":1028.2,"end":1030.2,"text":"稍微複雜的犯罪事實"},{"start":1030.2,"end":1032.2,"text":"都不可能一定是簡單的"},{"start":1032.2,"end":1034.2,"text":"犯罪事實"},{"start":1034.2,"end":1036.2,"text":"你還在講的時候在闡述你的看法的時候"},{"start":1036.2,"end":1038.2,"text":"黃次長也搖頭"},{"start":1038.2,"end":1040.2,"text":"搖頭就是"},{"start":1040.2,"end":1042.2,"text":"不是說他完全把你否定"},{"start":1042.2,"end":1044.2,"text":"他有他的一個擔憂存在"},{"start":1044.2,"end":1046.2,"text":"立法院是一個民意機關"},{"start":1046.2,"end":1048.2,"text":"立法院其實我們"},{"start":1048.2,"end":1050.2,"text":"你們司法改革方向我們去做支持"},{"start":1050.2,"end":1052.2,"text":"可是以司法院跟法務部"},{"start":1052.2,"end":1054.2,"text":"這樣的一個對話"},{"start":1054.2,"end":1056.2,"text":"互相沒有辦法達到一個共識"},{"start":1056.2,"end":1058.2,"text":"情況之下哪怕是一個被告"},{"start":1058.2,"end":1060.2,"text":"被告不是只有他的人權"},{"start":1060.2,"end":1062.2,"text":"而已喔"},{"start":1062.2,"end":1064.2,"text":"外面廠長還有一個叫做告訴人"},{"start":1064.2,"end":1066.2,"text":"當涉及到人民權益的時候"},{"start":1066.2,"end":1068.2,"text":"我們立法機關也擔心"},{"start":1068.2,"end":1070.2,"text":"當事人的權益"},{"start":1070.2,"end":1072.2,"text":"或者說一般老百姓的權益受損"},{"start":1072.2,"end":1074.2,"text":"所以你們說好他就來了"},{"start":1074.2,"end":1076.2,"text":"OK好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:10.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:11.200000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:11.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:13.218182+08:00","text":"有請我們司法院高秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:13.571429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:14.428571+08:00","text":"有請高秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:14.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:16.350000+08:00","text":"還有刑事廳許廳長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:16.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:17.240000+08:00","text":"請許廳長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:17.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:19.150000+08:00","text":"法務部黃次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:19.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:20.900000+08:00","text":"請黃次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:24.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:24.950000+08:00","text":"秘書長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:25.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:33:20.033333+08:00","text":"我看剛剛沈發惠委員的質詢很精彩，司法院跟法務部各自講出自己的看法還有擔憂，其實都是好事，高秘書長有一個好處，就是輩分高，而且在講一些民眾聽得懂的話，這個是好事，我看你們的對話裡面，其實我發現問題的爭點在什麼地方，你看以這一次我們說要讓司法官減壓，其實要讓民眾很清楚地了解我們簡化的是判決書，不是在簡化品質，我們要減少的是這些文書，不是要減少老百姓的權利，這個如果定調清楚的話，我會覺得你跟黃次長大家的想法其實都是一致的。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:33:22.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:33:49.969231+08:00","text":"本席發現比較奇怪的一個現象是，我們一直在說法官過勞，覺得案件太多、判決書怎麼寫都寫不完，其實在刑事訴訟法第三百十條之一，我看1990年的時候，那個時候就已經針對部分的案件，本來就可以簡化判決書。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:33:50.533333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:11.771429+08:00","text":"在2004年的時候，再去簡化，證據原則上連內容都不用全部重寫，證據名稱寫一寫都可以，我看2017年的司改國是會議，到最後你們編了這一本書，我今天還特地把這本書拿來，叫做「裁判書類簡化及通俗化推動要覽」，針對2017年司改國是會議，你們最後編了一本書，我是覺得很可惜，這個制度講了三十幾年，本來你們就是可以簡化，也不是強制法官簡化，法律的問題很複雜，有關社會高度爭議的，或者法官認為相關法律見解要寫得更清楚一點的，就去寫，沒有人限制你，但有一個問題，本席真的發現一個問題，就是假設大家都考上司法官，我們先去候補、試署，到最後才成為正式法官，假設這個判決拿給我們，大家都寫10頁，黃謀信法官，你好意思寫3頁？","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:35:12.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:16.866667+08:00","text":"高秘書長，我們都是法官，你說：不然我寫2頁。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:35:17.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:17.866667+08:00","text":"你敢嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:35:18.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:25.950000+08:00","text":"其實有法律授權都可以，但重點在「得」，以你們的那個文化來看，我們三個都是當法官的，我們會怕啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:35:28.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:31.914286+08:00","text":"黃謀信說：莊瑞雄寫10頁，我寫3頁好嗎？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:35:32.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:34.700000+08:00","text":"高秘書長，你會覺得寫1頁就可以嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:35:35.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:35.950000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:35:36.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:36:12.075000+08:00","text":"第一個，以你們的文化來講，這樣寫的人，到最後會不會被人家講說，第一，偷懶；再者，你們內部有考核，還有維持率的問題，如果這個文化沒有改變，我聽了你們兩個的對話，我會認為很有價值的地方，就是如果你們內部法官自己的心魔沒有拿掉，我看要推動這個是很困難，不然不會講了三十幾年的制度，大家一直在講減壓。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:36:12.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:36:35.977778+08:00","text":"我想核心問題許廳長也很清楚，你們都是從基層上來做到廳長、秘書長，你們也煩惱這樣的判決寫下去之後，擔心法務部、檢察官沒有尊重你們、會輕忽你們，就會有這樣的牢騷、苦水跑出來。","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:36:37.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:36:52.046154+08:00","text":"現在要把六個月改為兩年，這樣可以減壓，我要告訴法務部跟司法院，司法及法制委員會，尤其立法院，有哪一次沒有支持你們？","quality":0.745},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:36:52.046154+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:36:53.200000+08:00","text":"司改的部分，有哪一次沒有支持的？","quality":0.214},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:36:53.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:36:56.866667+08:00","text":"立法院吵吵鬧鬧，有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:36:57.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:36:58+08:00","text":"因為有政治嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:36:58.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:37:06.100000+08:00","text":"可是真正制度要往前走的，我看不管誰執政，在立法院大家都是給你們支持的，所以問題出在哪裡？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:37:06.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:37:07.866667+08:00","text":"出在你們內部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:37:08.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:37:10.200000+08:00","text":"我不知道秘書長的看法如何？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:37:11.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:37:17.100000+08:00","text":"不要說一個制度下去之後，擔心外界會說你們偷懶，你也不用怕人家說你偷懶啊！","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:37:17.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:37:17.950000+08:00","text":"哪有偷懶？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:37:18.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:37:45.866667+08:00","text":"立法院的法律明文規定這樣就可以，也沒有人強制你一定要簡化，複雜的問題、社會高度爭議的問題，本來就應該要好好交代清楚，所以我覺得問題出在你們內部考核上，第一，你們怕人家說；第二，怕維持率的問題，一審法官簡式判決寫完以後，到二審全部被撤銷，以後也就沒人敢這樣寫，你知不知道？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:37:46.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:37:48.866667+08:00","text":"所以秘書長，你的看法如何？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:37:50.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:38:49+08:00","text":"其實委員指到重點，法官本來對自己的要求就很高，當法律規定他要寫判決的時候，沒有錯，依據第三百十條之一規定，他可以簡化，可是在簡化論述中，因為對自我的要求，他會闡述得很清楚，這也是為什麼第三百十條之一，就像委員剛剛說的，從民國幾年推到現在，司法院也一直鼓勵、一直鼓勵，但就沒辦法發揮一定的讓法官減壓的效用，所以我們在這次提出第三百十條之二，希望針對爭執性很低的判決，是不是就讓法官寫清楚犯罪事實跟犯罪法條？","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:38:49.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:39:03.381818+08:00","text":"真的，法官的自我要求，絕大部分的法官自我要求太高，同儕之間的議論他也會聽在耳裡，所以我們必須釜底抽薪。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:39:05.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:39:11.977778+08:00","text":"第三百十條之一條文真的如委員所說的，從民國幾年講到現在，為什麼沒有發生效用？","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:39:12.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:39:34.771429+08:00","text":"法官還在案牘勞形，還在花這麼多時間寫判決，這也是我們一直在檢討的，所以我們才說從上訴維持率來看，是不是可以再找出一個更好的方法，讓法官把精神維持在一案裡面？","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:39:35.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:39:41.533333+08:00","text":"對於這次委員願意這樣修法，我們真的非常感謝。是啦！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:39:41.866667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:03.200000+08:00","text":"你想一下，一個判決要如何簡略，到最後判決主文還是一定要有，也一定要交代犯罪事實，而這些犯罪事實也一定要有證據，然後法官也要跟當事人說明為何對你有利的不採認，這都要講清楚，因為攸關當事人權益。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:04.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:13.969231+08:00","text":"但是你剛才說法務部，現在說檢察官輕忽，你剛才的說法是你們什麼……","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:14.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:17.311111+08:00","text":"委員，我沒有說他輕忽喔！有啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:17.422222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:19.100000+08:00","text":"你剛才就是這樣說，所以黃謀信才會吐槽你。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:19.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:24.800000+08:00","text":"沒有，我沒有講法務部輕忽，我只是說第三百十條之二，現在講之二……","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:25.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:28.836364+08:00","text":"沒關係，你批評法務部檢察官，應該批評時也要批評……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:28.836364+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:29.836364+08:00","text":"沒有啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:29.018182+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:31.985714+08:00","text":"他如果覺得你們不對，批評你們也應該啊！","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:32.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:33.088889+08:00","text":"可是我沒有做這樣的批評。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:33.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:34.700000+08:00","text":"你變沒有了？好啦！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:35.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:46.914286+08:00","text":"那你舉個實例，你剛才講的，我看你對檢察官好像有一點抱怨，舉個實例好不好？","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:47.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:49.018182+08:00","text":"很清楚的實例，讓社會知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:49.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:40:58.866667+08:00","text":"我對檢察官沒有抱怨，我只是抱怨他們不同意第三百十條之二而已，我對檢察官沒有抱怨喔！喔！","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:40:59.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:41:01.057143+08:00","text":"你的意思是在這個地方就對了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:41:01.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:41:10.400000+08:00","text":"其實我一直這樣覺得，我們這個不是強制要求法官一定要全部簡化，沒有！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:41:11.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:41:44.900000+08:00","text":"就是有一些重複的可以簡化；或是如果被告認罪，那個判決該存在什麼樣子，還是不能免，但是有一個地方我必須簡單這樣講，就是現在你說的宣示判決筆錄，這你可以去推，大家也覺得要簡化，但是這個判決裡面，最主要是要讓老百姓、被判刑的人知道為什麼被判刑，我覺得這個很重要。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:41:45.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:42:06.057143+08:00","text":"你們現在這個方向，我可以支持，尤其是一些沒有爭議的案件，不然你叫法官浪費一大堆時間寫一大本判決書，這也很奇怪，但是一個法官的判決，讓被告知道為什麼被判刑，這是一個好事。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:42:06.552941+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:43:02.644444+08:00","text":"另外，我還有一個問題提問，就是你們不如把現在的範例給老百姓看，告訴他們現在的判決書長這樣，將來簡化後，會長成什麼樣子，兩相比較，有一個比較組，知道以後會怎麼演變，這樣就不用像現在大家在這裡對話，你說一說後，我的感受是覺得你剛才說的有點在怨檢察官，但你說沒有，我想這是好事，代表經過休息5分鐘後，你們有溝通，或者大家心領神會，都有感受到彼此的意思其實是一樣的，這也很好，所以在你簡化以後，希望拿一份簡化後的範本讓老百姓對照，知道未來的判決書會省掉哪些，這是第一個。","quality":0.686},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:43:08.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:43:19.200000+08:00","text":"再來，如果被告不服，可以如何要求比較完整的判決書；如果要上訴，又該怎麼辦？","quality":0.531},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:43:20.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:43:33.472727+08:00","text":"我覺得以這兩份來比較，比現在我們光用文字、條文在這裡討論會更有意義，不知道你的意見如何？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:43:33.654545+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:43:45.866667+08:00","text":"就是這個宣示判決筆錄既然要推動，這樣很好，但現在的判決書是怎麼樣，改革之後、法律通過之後，以後的判決書會寫成什麼樣，這個很合理吧？","quality":0.362},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:43:46.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:44:11.200000+08:00","text":"對，跟委員報告，因為現在的判決書，對於被告的證據那段論述會寫很多，將來宣示判決筆錄他能夠這樣做，第一個一定要被告認罪，其次一定是三年以下刑期，然後宣示判決犯罪事實一定要寫清楚，因為這跟既判力有關。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:44:12.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:44:19.200000+08:00","text":"再者，因為他認罪了，所以再過來就是他的犯罪法條要清楚，其實……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:44:21.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:44:24.018182+08:00","text":"等一下，我看黃謀信次長一直在搖頭，請黃次長也講一下你的看法。","quality":0.407},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:44:24.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:44:30+08:00","text":"其實這是好事，我覺得把大家不同的看法跟擔憂拿出來講非常好啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-08-19T11:44:30.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:44:58.018182+08:00","text":"跟各位報告，現在簡式判決是要擴張到五年以上重罪以外的罪，除了最輕本刑五年以上這些重罪不適用之外，其他所有犯罪都要用筆錄來代替判決，所以幾乎所有很大宗的刑事案件都有可能會落入用筆錄來代替判決的範圍。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:44:58.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:44:59.977778+08:00","text":"所以你的擔心是怎麼樣？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-08-19T11:45:00.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:45:23.977778+08:00","text":"那會因為沒有判決書，所以會變成兩階段，第一階段是只有筆錄代替判決，而檢察官不知道該不該上訴，因為理由是什麼其實他不是很清楚，或者是被害人要請求檢察官上訴，被害人也不清楚，只有當我們不服的時候，他再補送判決書，所以它是兩階段的。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-08-19T11:45:24.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:45:31.866667+08:00","text":"在這個狀態下是兩階段的，所以我們在講兩階段反而更造成我們實務上的一些繁瑣、程序上的重複。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:45:31.866667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:45:32.866667+08:00","text":"這樣很麻煩耶！","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:45:32.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:45:46.033333+08:00","text":"一個司法改革裡面涉及到院跟檢，檢察官偵查犯罪，法院做實體審判，我看現在法務部代表跟司法院代表的看法不一樣啊！","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:45:48.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:45:51.700000+08:00","text":"在這種情況下，即使我們支持你，但你們的方向要走到哪裡去？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:45:54.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:46:07.914286+08:00","text":"本來我以為只是司法院內部文化的問題，就是說法律明文授權給你可以去簡化，但是你不敢用，我看別人寫10頁，所以我不敢寫3頁、我不敢寫2頁，因為涉及到考評。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:46:08.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:46:13.866667+08:00","text":"我如果真的這樣寫下去以後，檢察官一看到會說怎麼變成這樣？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:46:14.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:46:16.018182+08:00","text":"我到底要不要上訴？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:46:16.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:46:29.977778+08:00","text":"不如我都上訴，這樣以後不會被罵，最後就變成你們內部文化的問題，司法院也有內部文化的問題，變成檢察官都說我無所適從，我不知道該怎麼辦，我看一看還是不清不楚，你的判決書沒有交代啊！","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:46:31.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:46:36.046154+08:00","text":"為求保險起見，案子只要一下來，檢察官就全部都上訴，這樣一來我們就達不到這樣的目的啦！","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:46:39.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:46:46.066667+08:00","text":"現在高秘書長又在搖頭，你說的時候黃謀信在搖頭，黃謀信講完換你搖頭，我講完你也搖頭，這樣我們哪會有共識？","quality":0.543},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:46:46.066667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:46:48.200000+08:00","text":"現在該怎麼辦，請說。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:46:48.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:46:53.977778+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實判決筆錄犯罪事實一定是明確的。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:46:54.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:46:55.866667+08:00","text":"那一定有的嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:46:55.866667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:46:56.866667+08:00","text":"一定有嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:46:56.422222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:47:02.075000+08:00","text":"而且也要被告是認罪的，然後在整個審判程序中，檢察官是參與的喔！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:47:02.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:47:05.914286+08:00","text":"不是只有被告跟法官，檢察官是有參與的啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:47:06.422222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:47:09.914286+08:00","text":"對於整個陳述的內容，檢察官是知道的啊！","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:47:10.644444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:47:18.100000+08:00","text":"站在檢察官的立場，檢察官可能也要看……就是說雖然檢察官有參與，但是他要知道判決書是怎麼做出來的啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:47:18.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:47:38.018182+08:00","text":"所以說一定是檢察官起訴的犯罪事實，被告要認罪，就這麼簡單，你如果橫生枝節、另外追加不在檢察官起訴的範圍，檢察官會產生疑惑的時候，不可能法官會做這種判決。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:47:38.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:47:41.533333+08:00","text":"糟糕，黃次長又搖頭了，請黃次長說明。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-08-19T11:47:43.533333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:48:03.977778+08:00","text":"簡式判決現在刑訴法規定是以有罪為前提沒有錯，但是它不需要經過當事人的同意，換句話說，法官可以在檢察官不同意的狀況下，被告認罪他就可以下簡式判決，在簡式判決連動到暫時免寫判決的狀況之下，檢察官也許不同意做簡式，那他就會上訴，他就先上訴再說嘛，因為他看不到判決書啊！","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"黃次長謀信","start":"2026-08-19T11:48:04.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:48:18+08:00","text":"會有這個狀況產生，因為它不需要檢察官、當事人的同意，它跟協商判決不一樣，協商判決基本上是雙方當事人同意了，經過協商，那是檢察官同意，但簡式判決本身不需要檢察官同意，法官就直接下簡式判決了。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:48:18.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:48:19.533333+08:00","text":"秘書長……","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:48:20.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:48:23.800000+08:00","text":"其實跟委員報告……","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:48:23.800000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:48:26.200000+08:00","text":"我的時間也到了，這樣我要怎麼支持你們？","quality":0.294},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:48:26.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:48:33.950000+08:00","text":"司法改革我們都很支持你們，現在的問題在於司法院跟法務部的意見分歧。","quality":0.581},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:48:34.771429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:48:50+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，相信委員也很了解在刑事案件裡面哪些是小案件，小案件的部分我們還是在寫判決，就像剛剛次長講的，其實對於稍微複雜的，法官用這個的可能性會很低。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T11:48:50.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:49:15.700000+08:00","text":"我們現在來看，其實在大部分的刑事案件當中，小案件占很多，我們從上訴率來看就可以知道，其實我們只是要減省被告認罪……犯罪事實可以說將來看它的發展，它絕對連稍微複雜的犯罪事實都不可能，一定是簡單的犯罪事實。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:49:16.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:49:19.866667+08:00","text":"秘書長，這樣我聽懂了，你在闡述你的看法的時候，黃次長也搖頭啦！","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:49:20.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:49:26+08:00","text":"搖頭並不是說他完全把你否定，而是他有他的擔憂存在。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"莊委員瑞雄","start":"2026-08-19T11:49:26.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:49:57.800000+08:00","text":"立法院是一個民意機關，其實你們司法改革的方向我們都支持，可是以司法院跟法務部這樣的對話，在互相沒有辦法達到共識的情況之下，哪怕是一個被告，被告不是只有他的人權而已，外面常常還有一個叫做告訴人，這樣涉及到人民權益的時候，我們立法機關也擔心當事人的權益，或者說一般老百姓的權益受損，所以你們說好再來好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:49:58.300000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:49:59.728571+08:00","text":"謝謝莊委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:50:00.028571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:50:08.885714+08:00","text":"看起來就是司法院跟法務部好像很難談好，建議要不然就提出A版、B版吧！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:50:09.185714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:50:24.328571+08:00","text":"如果是這樣的話，至少在司委會對於各種不同的法案，我們就可以加速推進，希望在下個會期之前一定要能夠看得到兩院的版本。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:50:24.628571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:50:26.628571+08:00","text":"今天送出去了，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:50:26.928571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:50:36.928571+08:00","text":"我們先處理會議時間，上午會議時間繼續進行到所有登記發言委員都詢答結束為止。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:50:37.228571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:50:41.228571+08:00","text":"接下來有請王世堅委員進行詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}