{"error":false,"id":["171075"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":171075,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/171075","日期":"2026-08-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-5-22,15-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[22,15],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會","內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化、內政委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-19T11:51:54+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-19T12:02:46+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0db75461a96d9b806eb2ba779a5328e5c288d97a61ada355f0d91e61b44ec3a7a1134436d75394885ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"11:51:54 - 12:02:46","會議時間":"2026-08-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\r\n(一) 委員黃仁等17人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\r\n(二) 委員高金素梅等24人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\r\n(三) 委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\r\n(四) 委員林倩綺等16人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\r\n(五) 委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\r\n(六) 委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等16人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\r\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":0.03096875,"end":0.72284375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":11.77596875,"end":22.96409375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王副司長淑娟","start":22.559093750000002,"end":22.89659375,"speaker_score":0.984},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王副司長淑娟","start":22.96409375,"end":23.01471875,"speaker_score":0.984},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王副司長淑娟","start":23.06534375,"end":25.69784375,"speaker_score":0.984},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":24.887843750000002,"end":25.613468750000003,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":27.18284375,"end":113.65034375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":113.71784375,"end":114.61221875000001,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":114.83159375000001,"end":120.16409375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":120.34971875000001,"end":172.22346875000002,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":172.89846875,"end":185.14971875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":185.62221875,"end":189.45284375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":189.89159375,"end":191.49471875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":191.59596875000003,"end":194.98784375000002,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":195.30846875,"end":198.34596875000003,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":199.24034375000002,"end":210.79971875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":211.86284375000002,"end":213.61784375000002,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":213.93846875000003,"end":225.48096875000002,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":226.07159375,"end":231.21846875000003,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":231.67409375000003,"end":232.58534375000002,"speaker_score":0.823},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":233.53034375000001,"end":288.93096875000003,"speaker_score":0.823},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":289.30221875,"end":297.70596875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":298.26284375,"end":299.30909375000005,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":301.53659375,"end":305.60346875000005,"speaker_score":0.823},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":306.90284375000005,"end":341.81721875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":338.93159375000005,"end":338.96534375000005,"speaker_score":0.823},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":340.02846875,"end":345.20909375,"speaker_score":0.823},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":344.93909375000004,"end":358.82721875000004,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":359.33346875,"end":411.17346875000004,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王副司長淑娟","start":387.88596875,"end":388.20659375,"speaker_score":0.984},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":411.39284375000005,"end":417.01221875000005,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":417.24846875000003,"end":430.52909375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":431.13659375000003,"end":462.76034375,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王副司長淑娟","start":438.71346875,"end":438.84846875000005,"speaker_score":0.984},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":463.19909375000003,"end":463.26659375,"speaker_score":0.823},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":463.26659375,"end":463.28346875000005,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":463.28346875000005,"end":463.55346875000004,"speaker_score":0.823},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":463.55346875000004,"end":464.02596875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王副司長淑娟","start":464.02596875,"end":465.51096875,"speaker_score":0.984},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王副司長淑娟","start":465.98346875000004,"end":476.74971875000006,"speaker_score":0.984},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王副司長淑娟","start":476.95221875000004,"end":485.64284375000005,"speaker_score":0.984},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"林委員倩綺","start":485.64284375000005,"end":485.89596875,"speaker_score":0.919},{"speaker":"SPEA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謝謝我們主席 焦委"},{"start":13.64,"end":17.84,"text":"那麼我本席這邊請教育部次長"},{"start":17.84,"end":20.52,"text":"我們中藥次長跟林貴"},{"start":20.52,"end":22.02,"text":"我們今天是杜彰副主委"},{"start":22.02,"end":23.02,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":23.02,"end":26.02,"text":"有請次長跟副主委 焦委詢談"},{"start":27.02,"end":29.02,"text":"好 謝謝 那請教兩位"},{"start":29.04,"end":30.04,"text":"次長 主委"},{"start":30.04,"end":32.04,"text":"本席今天要請教"},{"start":32.04,"end":35.04,"text":"我們在原住民族學校法草案裡面"},{"start":35.04,"end":38.04,"text":"一個很關鍵的食物問題"},{"start":38.04,"end":41.04,"text":"也就是原住民族學校教師的"},{"start":41.04,"end":43.04,"text":"族語能力的門檻"},{"start":43.04,"end":45.04,"text":"應該要怎麼設計才能夠"},{"start":45.04,"end":48.04,"text":"同時兼顧語言知識體系的傳承"},{"start":48.04,"end":50.04,"text":"跟師資的量能"},{"start":50.04,"end":53.04,"text":"那麼當然在上次的公聽會"},{"start":53.04,"end":54.04,"text":"大家提出很多意見"},{"start":54.04,"end":56.04,"text":"所以也值得我們再思考"},{"start":56.04,"end":58.04,"text":"然後我們再來討論"},{"start":58.06,"end":59.06,"text":"所以當我們在推動"},{"start":59.06,"end":61.06,"text":"各級原住民族學校"},{"start":61.06,"end":63.06,"text":"最重要的目的"},{"start":63.06,"end":66.06,"text":"也是希望原住民族的文化知識體系"},{"start":66.06,"end":68.06,"text":"能夠進入學校的日常"},{"start":68.06,"end":72.06,"text":"而不是現在看起來相對的點綴性"},{"start":72.06,"end":76.06,"text":"所以師資具備一定程度的族語能力"},{"start":76.06,"end":79.06,"text":"這個我想都是各界在討論"},{"start":79.06,"end":82.06,"text":"也是一些大家的想法跟期待"},{"start":82.06,"end":85.06,"text":"所以我們現在草案的思考方向"},{"start":85.06,"end":87.06,"text":"是希望教師的族語能力"},{"start":87.08,"end":89.08,"text":"能夠達到族語支持"},{"start":89.08,"end":92.08,"text":"學科教學與學生互動"},{"start":92.08,"end":95.08,"text":"還有理解部落文化脈絡的程度"},{"start":95.08,"end":97.08,"text":"但是現在因為也有這個"},{"start":97.08,"end":100.08,"text":"都會員住民的一個可能性"},{"start":100.08,"end":101.08,"text":"但是整個實務上"},{"start":101.08,"end":104.08,"text":"我們究竟要定在中級"},{"start":104.08,"end":107.08,"text":"中高級還是高級"},{"start":107.08,"end":109.08,"text":"那這會不會直接影響未來"},{"start":109.08,"end":111.08,"text":"學校能不能找到足夠"},{"start":111.08,"end":114.08,"text":"而且合適的教師"},{"start":114.08,"end":116.08,"text":"那本席就這個問題"},{"start":116.1,"end":118.1,"text":"先請教我們園民會"},{"start":118.1,"end":120.1,"text":"我們杜章副主委"},{"start":120.1,"end":122.1,"text":"所以如果從語言附贈"},{"start":122.1,"end":124.1,"text":"跟文化傳承的角度來看"},{"start":124.1,"end":126.1,"text":"那你認為園住民族學校"},{"start":126.1,"end":129.1,"text":"這個可能也要考量到各級學校"},{"start":129.1,"end":131.1,"text":"如果未來是朝這樣一個方向的話"},{"start":131.1,"end":133.1,"text":"那麼正式的教師"},{"start":133.1,"end":135.1,"text":"應該具備哪一種"},{"start":135.1,"end":139.1,"text":"哪一個層次的族語認證級別"},{"start":139.1,"end":141.1,"text":"才足以撐起學校"},{"start":141.1,"end":144.1,"text":"以文化作為核心的教育目標"},{"start":144.12,"end":146.12,"text":"但是你要考量到各級"},{"start":146.12,"end":147.12,"text":"因為我們現在"},{"start":147.12,"end":148.12,"text":"雖然還沒有考慮到"},{"start":148.12,"end":150.12,"text":"那麼沒有就各級"},{"start":150.12,"end":152.12,"text":"來做那麼整面的討論"},{"start":152.12,"end":155.12,"text":"但是這是在我們朝向園住民族學校"},{"start":155.12,"end":157.12,"text":"一個整體體系"},{"start":157.12,"end":158.12,"text":"從基礎到高教"},{"start":158.12,"end":160.12,"text":"那個我們都要考慮進去的"},{"start":160.12,"end":162.12,"text":"那每一個層次"},{"start":162.12,"end":165.12,"text":"其實是有一些不同的核心學養"},{"start":165.12,"end":167.12,"text":"所以如果在中高級"},{"start":167.12,"end":169.12,"text":"是不是足以應付一般教學"},{"start":169.12,"end":172.12,"text":"及校園生活的使用"},{"start":172.14000000000001,"end":173.14000000000001,"text":"那如果到高級"},{"start":173.14000000000001,"end":177.14000000000001,"text":"當然文化跟語言的能力會更完整"},{"start":177.14000000000001,"end":179.14000000000001,"text":"但是園民會目前有沒有掌握到"},{"start":179.14000000000001,"end":183.14000000000001,"text":"各族真正通過高級認證"},{"start":183.14000000000001,"end":185.14000000000001,"text":"但是又具備我們講"},{"start":185.14000000000001,"end":189.14000000000001,"text":"各級學校教師能力的人數"},{"start":189.14000000000001,"end":191.14000000000001,"text":"那麼這個部分"},{"start":191.14000000000001,"end":193.14000000000001,"text":"本席請你們說明一下"},{"start":193.14000000000001,"end":195.14000000000001,"text":"從園民會的角度"},{"start":195.14000000000001,"end":196.14000000000001,"text":"那麼認為中高級"},{"start":196.14000000000001,"end":198.14000000000001,"text":"作為基本門檻"},{"start":198.14000000000001,"end":201.14000000000001,"text":"或高級作為鼓勵的目標"},{"start":201.16,"end":204.16,"text":"還是說高級直接作為正式評論的門檻"},{"start":204.16,"end":208.16,"text":"哪一種可能比較兼顧文化品質"},{"start":208.16,"end":210.16,"text":"跟制度的可行性"},{"start":210.16,"end":214.16,"text":"如果就目前大家的草案方向"},{"start":214.16,"end":217.16,"text":"其實這個部分應該是相對更細"},{"start":217.16,"end":221.16,"text":"但是你們在這個族語的各個層次"},{"start":221.16,"end":223.16,"text":"還有各級的學校"},{"start":223.16,"end":226.16,"text":"你們目前有沒有一個概念呢"},{"start":226.16,"end":228.16,"text":"在經過上次其實在工地會"},{"start":228.16,"end":230.16,"text":"也有一些學者做一些討論"},{"start":230.18,"end":231.18,"text":"對不對"},{"start":231.18,"end":233.18,"text":"跟委員說明一下"},{"start":233.18,"end":237.18,"text":"那個族語當然在我們原住民族語的學校裡面"},{"start":237.18,"end":239.18,"text":"是一個很重要的語言表達"},{"start":239.18,"end":242.18,"text":"也是表示原住民文化的主體性"},{"start":242.18,"end":245.18,"text":"但是委員也知道在高級的部分"},{"start":245.18,"end":247.18,"text":"事實上我們認證通過的並沒有那麼多"},{"start":247.18,"end":249.18,"text":"但是教學是不是一定要用"},{"start":249.18,"end":252.18,"text":"高級族語認證高級的這樣的一個"},{"start":252.18,"end":254.18,"text":"資格才有辦法當老師"},{"start":254.18,"end":256.18,"text":"我想這個是可以討論"},{"start":256.18,"end":258.18,"text":"而且我們覺得在跟教學上面"},{"start":258.2,"end":260.2,"text":"事實上我們也可以透過這個族語教室"},{"start":260.2,"end":262.2,"text":"有種協力的方式"},{"start":262.2,"end":264.2,"text":"有一些部落的祈禱的族語非常的好"},{"start":264.2,"end":266.2,"text":"也可以來協助"},{"start":266.2,"end":268.2,"text":"但是如果說要訂他的那個"},{"start":268.2,"end":269.2,"text":"每一個階級"},{"start":269.2,"end":272.2,"text":"比如說是大學、高中、國中、國小"},{"start":272.2,"end":274.2,"text":"可能中高級也有可能可以"},{"start":274.2,"end":277.2,"text":"在族語上面是可以支援的"},{"start":277.2,"end":279.2,"text":"所以在整個的應做上"},{"start":279.2,"end":280.2,"text":"我們資訊會裡面"},{"start":280.2,"end":282.2,"text":"也有掌握這些族語教室的"},{"start":282.2,"end":285.2,"text":"相對的這些人數跟資源"},{"start":285.2,"end":287.2,"text":"我們都有在做一個通盤性的考量"},{"start":287.21999999999997,"end":289.21999999999997,"text":"跟評估"},{"start":289.21999999999997,"end":291.21999999999997,"text":"所以針對剛才那個問題"},{"start":291.21999999999997,"end":293.21999999999997,"text":"您認為目前通過高級認證"},{"start":293.21999999999997,"end":295.21999999999997,"text":"具備相關能力的人數"},{"start":295.21999999999997,"end":297.21999999999997,"text":"大概你有一個概念嗎"},{"start":297.21999999999997,"end":299.21999999999997,"text":"可以簡單回應嗎"},{"start":301.21999999999997,"end":303.21999999999997,"text":"不多啦 但是我們再提供給回好不好"},{"start":303.21999999999997,"end":305.21999999999997,"text":"我們有去調查過"},{"start":305.21999999999997,"end":307.21999999999997,"text":"那這個部分因為是"},{"start":307.21999999999997,"end":310.21999999999997,"text":"大家共同都會討論的問題"},{"start":310.21999999999997,"end":314.21999999999997,"text":"可是本席在這邊其實要提醒你們"},{"start":314.24,"end":318.24,"text":"那麼各級、學校在這樣一個概念上"},{"start":318.24,"end":320.24,"text":"你們是不是在實務上"},{"start":320.24,"end":321.24,"text":"其實現在就"},{"start":321.24,"end":324.24,"text":"它就是一個很大的挑戰跟難題了"},{"start":324.24,"end":326.24,"text":"那如果剛才我聽到"},{"start":326.24,"end":328.24,"text":"那個高級委員這邊講"},{"start":328.24,"end":330.24,"text":"我認為你們的進度上"},{"start":330.24,"end":333.24,"text":"是不是還沒有思考到這個層面"},{"start":333.24,"end":334.24,"text":"可是應該在公聽會"},{"start":334.24,"end":336.24,"text":"還有大家提出的版本"},{"start":336.24,"end":338.24,"text":"其實都已經有這個相關的資訊"},{"start":338.24,"end":339.24,"text":"你們可能應該要趕快"},{"start":339.24,"end":341.24,"text":"追上這樣一個進度"},{"start":341.24,"end":343.24,"text":"我們也有在做調查、在做了解"},{"start":343.26,"end":345.26,"text":"然後看未來怎麼應對"},{"start":345.26,"end":346.26,"text":"那你們也要了解"},{"start":346.26,"end":348.26,"text":"各級學校真正的核心學養"},{"start":348.26,"end":350.26,"text":"然後跟實際的狀況"},{"start":350.26,"end":353.26,"text":"才不會當大家以一個文化概念"},{"start":353.26,"end":355.26,"text":"還有一個原住民族的教育"},{"start":355.26,"end":357.26,"text":"整體性、完整性的制度面"},{"start":357.26,"end":360.26,"text":"來思考的時候呢"},{"start":360.26,"end":362.26,"text":"那就在實務面"},{"start":362.26,"end":363.26,"text":"你們可能對教育體系"},{"start":363.26,"end":366.26,"text":"不是那麼深入的了解的情況下"},{"start":366.26,"end":368.26,"text":"到最後可能產生很大的落差"},{"start":368.26,"end":370.26,"text":"那本席今天其實是針對"},{"start":370.26,"end":371.26,"text":"族語的這個部分"},{"start":371.26,"end":372.26,"text":"先跟你們提出來"},{"start":372.28,"end":373.28,"text":"那不僅就教"},{"start":373.28,"end":375.28,"text":"也希望你們能夠趕快的"},{"start":375.28,"end":377.28,"text":"就各級學校這個部分做一個思考"},{"start":377.28,"end":379.28,"text":"那接下來本席請教一下"},{"start":379.28,"end":381.28,"text":"我們次長 江教次長"},{"start":381.28,"end":382.28,"text":"是"},{"start":382.28,"end":384.28,"text":"您是比較熟悉"},{"start":384.28,"end":387.28,"text":"所謂師資培育跟教師聘任現場"},{"start":387.28,"end":388.28,"text":"那本席這邊談到"},{"start":388.28,"end":391.28,"text":"就是我們從很基礎的一直到高教"},{"start":391.28,"end":394.28,"text":"那應該有很多不同層次"},{"start":394.28,"end":396.28,"text":"而且非常每一個平台"},{"start":396.28,"end":400.28,"text":"應該都有很大的差異"},{"start":400.29999999999995,"end":402.29999999999995,"text":"所以我們如果把這個"},{"start":402.29999999999995,"end":405.29999999999995,"text":"族語的門檻定的很低"},{"start":405.29999999999995,"end":407.29999999999995,"text":"可能各界會認為不足以"},{"start":407.29999999999995,"end":410.29999999999995,"text":"支撐原住民族學校的特色跟目標"},{"start":410.29999999999995,"end":413.29999999999995,"text":"但是呢 如果一開始就全面要求的"},{"start":413.29999999999995,"end":415.29999999999995,"text":"很高或者所謂的高級"},{"start":415.29999999999995,"end":418.29999999999995,"text":"那麼這個很多的教學的專業"},{"start":418.29999999999995,"end":420.29999999999995,"text":"文化的素養"},{"start":420.29999999999995,"end":422.29999999999995,"text":"還有族語能力"},{"start":422.29999999999995,"end":426.29999999999995,"text":"已經達到相當程度的優秀教師"},{"start":426.29999999999995,"end":427.29999999999995,"text":"你們是不是認為"},{"start":427.29999999999995,"end":429.29999999999995,"text":"可以採取分階段的一個設計"},{"start":429.32,"end":431.32,"text":"你們這方面的看法"},{"start":431.32,"end":433.32,"text":"我不知道你們有沒有深入研究這個部分"},{"start":433.32,"end":435.32,"text":"而且我相信你們在高教體系"},{"start":435.32,"end":437.32,"text":"也應該有一些了解"},{"start":437.32,"end":438.32,"text":"所以如果說以中高級"},{"start":438.32,"end":440.32,"text":"進入原住民族學校的這個基礎"},{"start":440.32,"end":442.32,"text":"那麼教師進入後"},{"start":442.32,"end":445.32,"text":"透過不同的培訓向在職進修"},{"start":445.32,"end":447.32,"text":"或族語培訓或認證機制"},{"start":447.32,"end":451.32,"text":"在一定的年限裡面提升到高級"},{"start":451.32,"end":453.32,"text":"這樣的可能性是如何"},{"start":453.32,"end":455.32,"text":"那當然還是牽扯到"},{"start":455.32,"end":456.32,"text":"各級學校"},{"start":456.32,"end":458.32,"text":"你們現在有沒有很具體的"},{"start":458.34,"end":461.34,"text":"一些這個想法"},{"start":461.34,"end":463.34,"text":"我請負責人 副市長可以跟你們回答"},{"start":463.34,"end":465.34,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":465.34,"end":467.34,"text":"我們針對師資培育的這一塊"},{"start":467.34,"end":470.34,"text":"目前的規範是只有教族語的老師"},{"start":470.34,"end":472.34,"text":"他才有原門檻的規範"},{"start":472.34,"end":474.34,"text":"至於未來"},{"start":474.34,"end":476.34,"text":"就目前的規範是這樣的"},{"start":476.34,"end":479.34,"text":"如果是國小的師資的話"},{"start":479.34,"end":481.34,"text":"他需要到族語的中高級"},{"start":481.34,"end":483.34,"text":"我想相關的規範我們都知道"},{"start":483.34,"end":486.34,"text":"可是本席這邊請你們試考的是"},{"start":486.35999999999996,"end":488.35999999999996,"text":"當原住民族學校"},{"start":488.35999999999996,"end":492.35999999999996,"text":"學校法裡面討論的其實是各級學校"},{"start":492.35999999999996,"end":494.35999999999996,"text":"我想你們應該要"},{"start":494.35999999999996,"end":496.35999999999996,"text":"不是只有這個"},{"start":496.35999999999996,"end":498.35999999999996,"text":"基礎教育的一個師培的問題"},{"start":498.35999999999996,"end":500.35999999999996,"text":"我講比較務實的"},{"start":500.35999999999996,"end":503.35999999999996,"text":"假設大學的相關教育"},{"start":503.35999999999996,"end":505.35999999999996,"text":"你要把專業知能"},{"start":505.35999999999996,"end":510.35999999999996,"text":"用族語或者是用原住民的文化方式"},{"start":510.35999999999996,"end":512.36,"text":"來呈現的話"},{"start":512.36,"end":513.36,"text":"是不是前面"},{"start":513.38,"end":515.38,"text":"我相信你們對於教材都很了解"},{"start":515.38,"end":517.38,"text":"教材這個部分"},{"start":517.38,"end":520.38,"text":"你們目前的一個準備跟討論是什麼"},{"start":520.38,"end":523.38,"text":"這其實很多很多很細的部分"},{"start":523.38,"end":525.38,"text":"如果以本席剛才聽到"},{"start":525.38,"end":527.38,"text":"你們回應的一些進度"},{"start":527.38,"end":529.38,"text":"本席其實還滿憂心的"},{"start":529.38,"end":532.38,"text":"不僅是你們版本好像目前不是太完整"},{"start":532.38,"end":534.38,"text":"原住民族學校的體系"},{"start":534.38,"end":536.38,"text":"好像各個階層的體系"},{"start":536.38,"end":538.38,"text":"似乎都還滿缺乏的"},{"start":538.38,"end":542.38,"text":"本席今天只是就原住民族學校的體系"},{"start":542.4,"end":544.4,"text":"今天只是就我們最關心的"},{"start":544.4,"end":547.4,"text":"以族語保存文化這樣一個概念"},{"start":547.4,"end":550.4,"text":"來談原住民族學校的議題"},{"start":550.4,"end":554.4,"text":"跟你們就教有關於認證層級的問題"},{"start":554.4,"end":556.4,"text":"但是還有很多很多的問題"},{"start":556.4,"end":558.4,"text":"其實它是高於"},{"start":558.4,"end":560.4,"text":"或者是更要及早"},{"start":560.4,"end":564.4,"text":"在我們目前已經碰到的教育體系"},{"start":564.4,"end":566.4,"text":"教育的經驗裡面"},{"start":566.4,"end":568.4,"text":"要更往前的來討論"},{"start":568.4,"end":570.4,"text":"要不然如果哪一天請你們"},{"start":570.42,"end":574.42,"text":"當中原住民族自然科學"},{"start":574.42,"end":579.42,"text":"或自然知識的相關教材的高教文本"},{"start":579.42,"end":581.42,"text":"你們提供的出來嗎"},{"start":581.42,"end":582.42,"text":"如果是這樣"},{"start":582.42,"end":584.42,"text":"當然我們不知道未來的主管單位"},{"start":584.42,"end":585.42,"text":"大家還要討論"},{"start":585.42,"end":587.42,"text":"但是最重要就是說"},{"start":587.42,"end":590.42,"text":"那麼在師資培育還有現場人力"},{"start":590.42,"end":592.42,"text":"的這樣一個務實的情況"},{"start":592.42,"end":594.42,"text":"究竟教育部原民會"},{"start":594.42,"end":597.42,"text":"有沒有就各個層級去討論"},{"start":597.4399999999999,"end":600.4399999999999,"text":"目前已經有的族羽的師資"},{"start":600.4399999999999,"end":603.4399999999999,"text":"跟未來在各個層級裡面"},{"start":603.4399999999999,"end":605.4399999999999,"text":"教師能力的這個部分"},{"start":605.4399999999999,"end":607.4399999999999,"text":"你們到底應該要怎麼做"},{"start":607.4399999999999,"end":609.4399999999999,"text":"這是很大的一個問題"},{"start":609.4399999999999,"end":612.4399999999999,"text":"目前看起來進度是稍微慢了一點"},{"start":612.4399999999999,"end":613.4399999999999,"text":"好不好"},{"start":613.4399999999999,"end":615.4399999999999,"text":"那這個部分要簡單做個回應嗎"},{"start":615.4399999999999,"end":619.4399999999999,"text":"還是要給本席請問的這個補充問題"},{"start":619.4399999999999,"end":621.4399999999999,"text":"因為高榮委員關心"},{"start":621.4399999999999,"end":624.4399999999999,"text":"針對就是未來原住民學校裡面的教材"},{"start":624.4399999999999,"end":625.4399999999999,"text":"跟師資的配套"},{"start":625.46,"end":630.46,"text":"這一塊部分會架接在跟原民會的討論裡面"},{"start":630.46,"end":632.46,"text":"因為包括今天這個主題是"},{"start":632.46,"end":637.46,"text":"族羽在各級學校的一個認定的層次"},{"start":637.46,"end":638.46,"text":"是"},{"start":638.46,"end":639.46,"text":"我們要怎麼樣來"},{"start":639.46,"end":641.46,"text":"這個會請部跟他們再做溝通討論"},{"start":641.46,"end":642.46,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":642.46,"end":643.46,"text":"可以嗎"},{"start":643.46,"end":644.46,"text":"謝謝"},{"start":644.46,"end":645.46,"text":"可能更清楚完整"},{"start":645.46,"end":647.46,"text":"謝謝林建琪委員的質詢"},{"start":647.46,"end":649.46,"text":"請官員回座"},{"start":649.46,"end":652.46,"text":"接下來我們有請羅志強委員進行訪問"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:52:05.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:52:07.417778+08:00","text":"好，謝謝我們的主席召委。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:52:08.609231+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:52:16.686667+08:00","text":"本席這邊請教育部張廖次長跟原民會杜張副主委，謝謝。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:52:17.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:52:18.770000+08:00","text":"好，有請次長跟副主委上備詢台。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-19T11:52:19.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:52:21.020000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-08-19T11:52:21.020000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:52:23.040000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:52:23.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:52:23.790000+08:00","text":"次長、主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:52:24.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:52:43.706667+08:00","text":"本席今天要請教我們在原住民族學校法草案裡面一個很關鍵的實務問題，也就是原住民族學校教師族語能力的門檻，應該要怎麼設計才能夠同時兼顧語言知識體系的傳承跟師資的量能？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:52:44.585455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:52:51.790000+08:00","text":"當然，在上次公聽會大家提出很多意見，所以也值得我們再思考並再來討論。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:52:52.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:53:15.810000+08:00","text":"我們推動各級原住民族學校最重要的目的也是希望原住民族的文化知識體系能夠進入學校的日常，而不是現在看起來相對的點綴性，所以師資具備一定程度的族語能力，這個我想都是各界在討論，也是大家的想法跟期待。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:53:16.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:53:47.651429+08:00","text":"所以我們現在草案的思考方向是希望教師的族語能力能夠達到足以支持學科教學、與學生互動，還有理解部落文化脈絡的程度，但是現在因為也有都會原住民的可能性，但是整個實務上，我們究竟要定在中級、中高級還是高級，這會不會直接影響未來學校能不能找到足夠而且合適的教師？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:53:48.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:54:17.850000+08:00","text":"本席就這個問題，先請教我們原民會杜張副主委，如果從語言復振跟文化傳承的角度來看，你認為原住民族學校，這個可能也要考量到各級學校，如果未來是朝這樣一個方向的話，正式教師應該具備哪一個層次的族語認證級別，才足以撐起學校以文化作為核心的教育目標？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:54:18.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:54:45.745000+08:00","text":"但是你要考量到各級，因為我們現在雖然還沒有就各級來做那麼縝密的討論，但這是在我們朝向原住民族學校一個整體體系，從基礎到高教，我們都要考慮進去了，每一個層次其實是有一些不同的核心學養，所以如果在中高級，是不是足以應付一般教學及校園生活的使用？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:54:46.306667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:54:50.854286+08:00","text":"如果到高級，當然文化跟語言的能力會更為完整。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:54:51.601538+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:55:02.776364+08:00","text":"原民會目前有沒有掌握到各族真正通過高級認證且又具備我們講各級學校教師能力的人數？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:55:03.806667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:55:23.874286+08:00","text":"這個部分，本席請你們說明一下，從原民會的角度，認為中高級作為基本門檻或高級作為鼓勵的目標，還是說高級直接作為正式聘任的門檻，哪一種可能比較兼顧文化、品質跟制度的可行性？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:55:24.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:55:39.660000+08:00","text":"如果就目前大家的草案方向，其實這個部分應該是相對更細，但是你們在族語的各個層次，還有各級的學校，你們目前有沒有一個概念？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:55:40.705455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:55:44.846667+08:00","text":"上次公聽會其實也有一些學者做些討論，對不對？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-08-19T11:55:45.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:55:55.949231+08:00","text":"跟委員說明一下，族語當然在我們的原住民族學校裡面是一個很重要的語言表達，也是表示原住民文化的主體性。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-08-19T11:55:56.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:56:07.957778+08:00","text":"但是委員也知道在高級的部分，事實上我們認證通過的並沒有那麼多，但是教學是不是一定要用高級族語認證這樣的資格才有辦法當老師？","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-08-19T11:56:08.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:56:42.553333+08:00","text":"我想這個是可以討論，而且我們覺得在教學上面，事實上我們也可以透過族語教師以協力的方式，有一些部落耆老的族語非常好，也可以來協助，但是如果要訂它的每一個階級，比如大學、高中、國中、國小，可能中高級在族語上面也是可以支援的，所以在整個運作上，事實上會裡面也有掌握這些族語教師相對這些人數跟資源，我們都有在做一個通盤性的考量跟評估。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:56:43.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:56:50.997778+08:00","text":"所以針對剛才那個問題，目前通過高級認證又具備相關能力的人數，你大概有一個概念嗎？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:56:51.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:56:52.934286+08:00","text":"可以簡單回應嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-08-19T11:56:55.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:56:57.086667+08:00","text":"不多啦，但是我們再提供給委員，好不好？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-08-19T11:56:57.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:56:58.934286+08:00","text":"我們有去調查過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:56:59.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:57:17.811429+08:00","text":"好，這個部分因為是大家共同都會討論的問題，本席在這邊其實是要提醒你們，各級學校在這樣一個概念上，你們是不是在實務上，其實現在它就是一個很大的挑戰跟難題。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:57:18.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:57:27.009231+08:00","text":"剛才我聽到高金委員所講的，我認為你們的進度上是不是還沒有思考到這個層面？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:57:27.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:57:34.990000+08:00","text":"可是應該在公聽會，還有大家提出的版本其實都已經有這個相關資訊，你們可能應該要趕快追上這樣一個進度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"杜副主任委員張梅莊","start":"2026-08-19T11:57:35.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:57:38.815556+08:00","text":"我們有注意到這個問題，也有在做調查、做了解，看未來怎麼因應。","quality":0.654},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:57:39.402857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:58:11.137143+08:00","text":"好，你們也要了解各級學校真正的核心學養及實際的狀況，才不會當大家以一個文化概念還有原住民族的教育整體性、完整性的制度面來思考的時候，結果在實務面，你們可能對教育體系不是那麼深入了解的情況下，到最後可能產生很大的落差，本席今天其實是針對族語這個部分先跟你們提出來，不僅就教，也希望你們能夠趕快就各級學校這個部分做一個思考。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:58:11.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:58:15.280000+08:00","text":"接下來，本席請教一下張廖次長。是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:58:16.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:58:21.049231+08:00","text":"您是比較熟悉所謂師資培育跟教師聘任現場。對。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:58:21.422857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:59:03.133333+08:00","text":"本席這邊談到我們從很基礎的部分一直到高教，應該有很多不同層次，而且每一個平臺應該都有很大的差異，所以我們如果把族語的門檻訂得很低，可能各界會認為不足以支撐原住民族學校的特色跟目標，但是如果一開始就全面要求很高或者所謂的高級，很多的教學專業、文化素養，還有族語能力已經達到相當程度的優秀教師，你們是不是認為可以採取分階段的設計？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:59:03.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:59:07.202353+08:00","text":"有關這方面的看法，我不知道你們有沒有深入研究這個部分？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:59:07.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:59:27.097778+08:00","text":"而且我相信您在高教體系也應該有一些了解，所以如果以中高級進入原住民族學校的基礎，教師進用後透過不同的培訓，像在職進修或族語培訓或認證機制，在一定的年限裡面提升到高級，這樣的可能性是如何？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:59:27.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:59:34.840000+08:00","text":"當然我還是牽扯到各級學校，你們現在有沒有很具體的一些想法？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-19T11:59:35.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:59:37.206667+08:00","text":"我請負責的副司長回答。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王副司長淑娟","start":"2026-08-19T11:59:37.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:59:55.140000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們針對師資培育這一塊，目前的規範是只有教族語的老師才有語言門檻的規範，至於未來……就是目前的規範是這樣的，如果是國小師資的話，他需要到族語的中高級……","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T11:59:55.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:00:34.180000+08:00","text":"我想相關的規範我們都知道，可是本席要請你們思考一點，就是原住民族學校法裡面討論的其實是各級學校，我想你們應該不是只有基礎教育的師培問題，我講的是比較務實的方面，假設你在大學的相關教育要用族語或用原住民文化的方式來呈現專業知能的話，我相信你們對於教材都很了解，對教材這個部分你們目前的準備跟討論是什麼？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T12:00:34.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:00:50.880000+08:00","text":"這其實有很多很細的部分，本席剛才聽到你們回應時所說的一些進度，本席其實還滿憂心的，不僅是你們目前的版本好像不是很完整，原住民族學校各個階層的體系似乎也都付之闕如。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T12:00:52.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:01:35.170000+08:00","text":"本席今天只是就我們最關心的以族語保存文化這樣的概念來談原住民族學校這個議題，並跟你們就教關於認證層級的問題，但是還有很多很多的問題，其實是高於或者是要及早……在我們目前已經碰到的這個教育體系、教育經驗裡面，其實要更往前來討論，要不然如果哪一天請你們提供原住民族自然科學或自然知識等相關教材的高教文本，你們提供得出來嗎？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T12:01:36.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:01:51.147273+08:00","text":"當然我們不知道未來的主管單位，大家還要再討論，但是最重要的就是在師資培育還有現場能力的務實情況，教育部、原民會究竟有沒有就各個層級去討論？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T12:01:51.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:01.240000+08:00","text":"對於目前已經有的族語師資跟未來在各個層級裡面教師能力的這個部分，你們到底應該要怎麼做？","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:01.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:09.286154+08:00","text":"這是一個很大的問題，目前看起來進度是稍微慢了一點，你對這個部分要簡單做一個回應嗎？","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:09.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:12.640000+08:00","text":"還是要給本席書面補充資料呢？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"王副司長淑娟","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:14.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:25.005455+08:00","text":"剛剛委員關心未來原住民族學校裡面的教材跟師資的配套，這一塊會嫁接在跟原民會的討論裡面，因為包括語言門檻的設定。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:25.187273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:33.317143+08:00","text":"今天最重要的主題是族語在各級學校認定的層次，你們要怎麼樣來處理？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"王副司長淑娟","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:33.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:35.317143+08:00","text":"對這個部分會進一步跟他們溝通跟討論。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:35.317143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:38.460000+08:00","text":"是不是可以提供書面答復？","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:38.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:39.317143+08:00","text":"這樣可能會更清楚、完整。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"林委員倩綺","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:39.317143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:40.317143+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:39.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:43.060000+08:00","text":"謝謝林倩綺委員的質詢，請官員回座。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:43.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:45.897500+08:00","text":"接下來我們有請羅智強委員進行詢答。","quality":0.812}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}