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我們絕對尊重"},{"start":332,"end":335,"text":"那之後法官敢不敢判"},{"start":335,"end":339,"text":"我們現在看到很多司法院法官的一個部分是"},{"start":339,"end":342,"text":"我們即便給了工具 但法官到時候不敢判"},{"start":342,"end":345,"text":"或是判的還是以最低刑度"},{"start":345,"end":347,"text":"那就好像是最低消費 不是啊"},{"start":347,"end":350,"text":"我們希望是法官能夠重判嚴懲"},{"start":350,"end":355,"text":"讓這些真正犯罪者不要逃離法律應有的制裁"},{"start":355,"end":362,"text":"是 我想這個是死刑無期徒刑到10年以上有期徒刑"},{"start":362,"end":366,"text":"絕對法官是由事實來適用法律"},{"start":366,"end":370,"text":"當然有時候量刑外界可能不滿意"},{"start":370,"end":376,"text":"可是我相信隨著尤其是進入國民法官的話"},{"start":376,"end":379,"text":"其實大家互相學習 我相信各位可以看到"},{"start":379,"end":383,"text":"量刑的趨勢 因為它有一個階段"},{"start":383,"end":386,"text":"我不能說它一定是死刑 它一定是無期徒刑"},{"start":386,"end":391,"text":"它要看很多事實跟證據這樣來評論"},{"start":391,"end":395,"text":"所以我現在講就是說所謂的廢死聯盟 廢死團體"},{"start":395,"end":397,"text":"我尊重他們的言論 但是很抱歉"},{"start":397,"end":400,"text":"台灣社會現在就是沒有廢死的空間"},{"start":400,"end":402,"text":"也因此我該捍衛的該堅持我一定會堅持"},{"start":402,"end":405,"text":"但另外一個部分 其實今天司法院"},{"start":405,"end":407,"text":"在第二頁你的報告裡面有講到"},{"start":407,"end":409,"text":"我覺得這很值得我們法務部"},{"start":409,"end":412,"text":"很值得我們民進黨政府現在執政黨來參考"},{"start":412,"end":414,"text":"第二頁開宗明義講"},{"start":414,"end":418,"text":"近來大量集團式詐騙洗錢等量刑事化"},{"start":418,"end":423,"text":"高重複性犯罪已經嚴重排擠司法資源的有效運用"},{"start":423,"end":428,"text":"從110年40多萬件到114年"},{"start":428,"end":432,"text":"已經成長36.2%達到55萬件"},{"start":432,"end":438,"text":"所以詐騙洗錢等這種高型態集團化的犯罪"},{"start":438,"end":442,"text":"連司法院的報告今天都點出來是說非常嚴峻"},{"start":442,"end":445,"text":"也因此我們才會講是說我們要用更積極有效的方式"},{"start":445,"end":447,"text":"來去對付詐騙集團"},{"start":447,"end":449,"text":"一個是抓到之後我們要重判"},{"start":449,"end":452,"text":"讓它知道說在台灣犯罪你要付出高額的代價"},{"start":452,"end":455,"text":"另外一個部分是讓你知道有高額代價要付出"},{"start":455,"end":457,"text":"也因此你不敢在台灣犯罪"},{"start":457,"end":461,"text":"所以本席也提出來所謂的邊刑打擊詐騙公投"},{"start":461,"end":463,"text":"現在也已經正式的立法院成案了"},{"start":463,"end":466,"text":"未來今年年底有可能會有這個公投"},{"start":466,"end":468,"text":"公投如果說真的通過的話"},{"start":468,"end":472,"text":"立法院跟行政院都有責任要推動修法"},{"start":472,"end":475,"text":"因為這是人民公投的一個決定"},{"start":475,"end":477,"text":"而我現在只想要再提醒"},{"start":477,"end":480,"text":"如果說真的邊刑打擊詐騙公投通過"},{"start":480,"end":484,"text":"確實有邊刑這樣的一個刑責進入的時候"},{"start":484,"end":487,"text":"法院也要敢判"},{"start":487,"end":488,"text":"法院也要敢判"},{"start":488,"end":490,"text":"這才是真真正正"},{"start":490,"end":495,"text":"各五院各自分立各自責任的一個分屬"},{"start":495,"end":499,"text":"而能夠真的有效讓台灣社會更加進步的一個關鍵"},{"start":499,"end":501,"text":"民主黨可以認同嗎"},{"start":501,"end":504,"text":"當然法官是依法判決"},{"start":504,"end":509,"text":"法律通過了除非他將來有違憲另外的別"},{"start":509,"end":511,"text":"另外的情勢發生"},{"start":511,"end":514,"text":"法官就是依法來判決"},{"start":514,"end":516,"text":"好來最後這個"},{"start":516,"end":518,"text":"這個不好意思市長讓您在這邊站比較久"},{"start":518,"end":521,"text":"不過本席回歸到這個草案的一個"},{"start":521,"end":524,"text":"我幾個部分我只簡單講一下"},{"start":524,"end":526,"text":"因為本席也看到我自己的一個"},{"start":526,"end":529,"text":"455之44條以及45跟47條"},{"start":529,"end":534,"text":"原則上我看到司法院跟法務部都是尊重我們的提案"},{"start":534,"end":536,"text":"並且都是表達可以接受的"},{"start":536,"end":538,"text":"所以這個部分"},{"start":538,"end":542,"text":"455之44條本席認為"},{"start":542,"end":544,"text":"既然現在已經有相關的一個座位"},{"start":544,"end":547,"text":"能夠再更明確讓被害者或是其家屬"},{"start":547,"end":551,"text":"有在法院審理的時候有一個明確隔離的一個座位"},{"start":551,"end":552,"text":"我覺得這是好的方向"},{"start":552,"end":554,"text":"即便司法院已經提出來是說"},{"start":554,"end":556,"text":"目前雖然沒有法令規定"},{"start":556,"end":557,"text":"但是已經有座"},{"start":557,"end":559,"text":"那如果說有座那樣更好"},{"start":559,"end":561,"text":"那是不是能夠在這邊法治化"},{"start":561,"end":565,"text":"讓他更加明確各級法院都可以有這樣的一個設置"},{"start":565,"end":570,"text":"而455之47條在於是被害者"},{"start":570,"end":573,"text":"或是其家屬的一個陳述意見的一個部分"},{"start":573,"end":576,"text":"我想也看到法務部跟司法院都是尊重"},{"start":576,"end":577,"text":"都是同意的"},{"start":577,"end":579,"text":"所以在逐條審查的時候"},{"start":579,"end":580,"text":"本席也會堅持這一條"},{"start":580,"end":583,"text":"因為能夠適時的在審理過程裡面"},{"start":583,"end":586,"text":"讓被害者或被害者家屬陳述意見表達意見"},{"start":586,"end":591,"text":"我想這對於法官的判決是有所公正的一個幫助"},{"start":591,"end":596,"text":"另外本席有看到2711之1條這個部分"},{"start":597,"end":600,"text":"也有陳述意見的一個部分也是同意"},{"start":600,"end":602,"text":"反正這幾個部分有同意的"},{"start":602,"end":603,"text":"我們如果說有共識的話"},{"start":603,"end":605,"text":"在逐條審查的時候我一定會有所堅持"},{"start":605,"end":608,"text":"那也希望我們司法院法務部能夠"},{"start":608,"end":611,"text":"在針對本席所提出來其他幾個條文"},{"start":611,"end":614,"text":"有可以溝通的部分我們再做一些溝通"},{"start":614,"end":615,"text":"那希望在逐條審查的時候"},{"start":615,"end":617,"text":"我們能夠有更實質的進展"},{"start":617,"end":618,"text":"好嗎"},{"start":618,"end":619,"text":"好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:44+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:44.750000+08:00","text":"感謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:45.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:47+08:00","text":"王世堅委員慷慨激昂。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:48+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:55.777778+08:00","text":"大家知不知道一個小知識，孟楷跟王世堅委員是同月同日生，我們都是1月1日摩羯座？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:56+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:57.777778+08:00","text":"所以實事求是很重要。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T12:02:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:02:59.666667+08:00","text":"我也是摩羯座。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:03:00+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:03:01.714286+08:00","text":"那我們一起努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:03:04.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:03:05.600000+08:00","text":"請秘書長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T12:03:05.600000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T12:03:06.600000+08:00","text":"請秘書長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:03:06.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:03:07.200000+08:00","text":"還有法務部次長。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T12:03:08.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:03:09.600000+08:00","text":"再請次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:03:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:03:31.833333+08:00","text":"一樣嚴肅的議題，針對刑事訴訟法的修正，本席一開始開宗明義做提案說明的時候就已經講了，執政權再大，也大不過憲法，五權分立是我們中華民國很基本的憲法框架，因此我們一定要尊重這樣的憲法框架。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:03:32+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:03:40.800000+08:00","text":"憲法框架就是各院做好各自的角色、各自的工作，更重要的就是要以臺灣人民的福祉為最優先。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:03:41.727273+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:03:50.777778+08:00","text":"我先看到一個部分，剛剛王世堅委員有提到法扶的使用。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:03:51+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:04:05.769231+08:00","text":"沒有錯，法扶是要保障弱勢，希望大家不要有法律的資訊落差，但絕對不是讓加害者把律師請好請滿，藉此想要逃避應有的制裁。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:04:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:05:05.740741+08:00","text":"本席之前有提過一個案件，即土城員警劉宗鑫所長被毒蟲撞死，在上個禮拜、六天前還在做延押庭，結果這位毒蟲居然還講反正繼續延押、沒有任何意見表達，所以兩秒鐘後法官又再繼續延押，但更重要的是他居然利用法扶，可以請三名律師、請好請滿，而且這三名律師形象非常的鮮明，都是廢死聯盟相關的律師，所以其實他的用意很明顯，他就是想要逃脫死刑的制裁及處罰，但我們要問的是當一個毒蟲駕車故意殺人，以此衝撞員警、制伏員警的時候，一審已經判死刑了，法院二審到底會不會還是堅持這樣的判決？","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:05:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:05:12.750000+08:00","text":"還是法院有可能讓他開脫，這個人民不知道，可是公平正義就在這邊。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:05:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:05:45.727273+08:00","text":"也因此，本席現在提到兩個部分，我想要請秘書長來回答，這個案件他是故意殺人，一審大家已經看得很明確，但現在另一個部分是我們也針對相關的刑罰來做修法，毒駕跟酒駕最大的不同是吸毒已經是犯罪了，吸毒還開車上路，那更加是惡上加惡、非常可惡，如果你吸毒駕車而撞人、致人於死的話，很抱歉，你應該要付出相同的代價。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:05:46.185185+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:06:16.714286+08:00","text":"因此，法務部現在提出來的版本是從三年到十年增加為五年到十二年，但本席不認同；本席的版本是毒蟲駕車、毒駕致死，最高可處死刑、無期徒刑或十年以上有期徒刑，該做的修法我們會做，因為現在已經進入朝野協商，如果沒有辦法達成共識的話，該院會表決的我們一定會表決，但更重要的是立法院敢修法，法院敢不敢判，我想這才是關鍵。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:06:17.769231+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:06:41.187500+08:00","text":"秘書長，您支不支持毒蟲駕車致死，最高處以死刑、無期徒刑或十年以上有期徒刑，以此來嚇阻毒蟲，你吸毒不要開車上路；你開車上路如果撞到人，不要跟我講你是不小心，不要跟我講你是無意識，不要跟我講你是無差別，沒有！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:06:41.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:06:53.769231+08:00","text":"吸毒駕車已經是不定時炸彈了，你在路上都是一個殺人兇器、都是一個災難，我們就以最高的標準要求你不要開車上路，這樣的修法方向你可以接受嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:06:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:07:05.687500+08:00","text":"我想最重要的是刑罰要如何規定，這尊重立法院，因為這是立法權所在。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:07:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:07:30.500000+08:00","text":"我的態度很明確，我是要告訴所有臺灣2,350萬生活在此的人，你要遵守我們的法治，如果你敢吸毒，那你已經犯罪，但你吸毒之後不要開車，你吸毒還開車，沒入車輛；如果你吸毒開車還致死，最高處以死刑、無期徒刑或十年以上有期徒刑，罰則很重，所以告訴你不要這樣做！","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:07:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:08:00.791667+08:00","text":"我們也不是完全沒有option，不是僅唯一死刑，假設修法通過之後，回過頭來看球在法官手上，法官可以依照各個個案之情節輕重緩急來裁定，到最後是死刑、無期徒刑還是十年以上有期徒刑，但這是一個態度的問題，對大家共同來講是不要做這件事情。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:08:01.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:08:05.687500+08:00","text":"我相信這是立法權，我們絕對尊重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:08:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:08:08.666667+08:00","text":"那之後法官敢不敢判？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:08:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:08:20.833333+08:00","text":"我們現在看到很多的司法院法官，即便我們給了工具，但法官到最後不敢判，或者判的還是以最低刑度，那就好像是最低消費，不是啊！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:08:21+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:08:28.736842+08:00","text":"我們希望法官能夠重判、嚴懲，讓這些真正犯罪者不要逃離法律應有的制裁。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:08:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:09:04.333333+08:00","text":"是，我想這個是死刑、無期徒刑到十年以上有期徒刑，法官絕對是依事實來適用法律，當然有時候外界可能對量刑不滿意，尤其是進入國民法官的話，其實大家互相學習，我相信各位可以看到量刑的趨勢，因為它有一個階段，我不能說他一定是死刑、他一定是無期徒刑，他也要依很多事實跟證據來評量。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:09:07.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:09:15.882353+08:00","text":"對廢死聯盟、廢死團體，我尊重他們的言論，但是很抱歉，臺灣社會現在就是沒有廢死的空間，也因此我該捍衛的、該堅持的，我一定會堅持。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:09:16.214286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:09:45.600000+08:00","text":"另外一個部分，今天司法院第2頁的報告裡面有講到，我覺得這很值得法務部、民進黨政府及現在執政黨來參考，第2頁開宗明義講：近來大量集團式詐騙或洗錢等類型化、高重複性犯罪，已嚴重排擠司法資源之有效運用，從110年四十多萬件到114年已經成長36.2%，達到55萬件。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:09:46.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:10:10.818182+08:00","text":"詐騙、洗錢等這種高型態集團化的犯罪，連今天司法院的報告都有點出來是非常嚴峻，我們才會想要用更積極、有效的方式來對付詐騙集團，一個是抓到之後我們要重判，讓他知道在臺灣犯罪要付出高額代價，另外一個部分是讓你知道有高額代價要付出，因此不敢在臺灣犯罪。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:10:11+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:10:28.769231+08:00","text":"所以本席也提出所謂的鞭刑打擊詐騙公投，現在也已經正式在立法院成案，今年年底有可能會有這個公投，公投如果真的通過的話，立法院跟行政院都有責任要推動修法，因為這是人民公投的決定。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:10:29.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:10:52.809524+08:00","text":"我現在只想要再提醒，如果真的鞭刑打擊詐騙公投通過，確實有鞭刑的刑責進入時，法院也要敢判，這才是真真正正五院各自分立、各自責任分屬，能夠有效讓臺灣社會更加進步的關鍵。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:10:53.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:10:54.750000+08:00","text":"秘書長，可以認同嗎？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:10:55+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:11:08+08:00","text":"當然法官是依法判決，法律通過了，除非將來有違憲、另外的情事發生，法官就是依法來判決。好。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:11:10.235294+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:11:11.882353+08:00","text":"不好意思，讓次長站比較久。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:11:12.428571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:11:29.636364+08:00","text":"本席回歸到草案，有幾個部分我只是簡單講一下，因為本席也看到我自己的第四百五十五條之四十四以及第四百五十五條之四十七，原則上，我看到司法院跟法務部都是尊重我們的提案，並且都是表達可以接受。","quality":0.747},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:11:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:11:58.809524+08:00","text":"所以對第四百五十五條之四十四，本席認為既然現在已經有相關的席位，能夠再更明確，讓被害者或是其家屬在法院審理時有一個明確隔離的席位，我覺得這是好的方向，即便司法院已經提出目前雖然沒有法令規定，但是已經有做，如果有做那樣更好，是不是能夠將其法制化，讓它更加明確，各級法院都可以有這樣的設置？","quality":0.856},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:11:59.555556+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:12:24.750000+08:00","text":"第四百五十五條之四十七是被害者或其家屬陳述意見的部分，我也看到法務部跟司法院都是尊重、都是同意的，在逐條審查的時候，本席也會堅持這一條，因為能夠適時在審理過程裡面，讓被害者或被害者家屬陳述意見、表達意見，這對於法官的判決是會有公正的幫助。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2026-08-19T12:12:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:12:52.666667+08:00","text":"另外，本席有看到第二百七十一條之一也有陳述意見，這部分也是同意，反正這幾個部分有同意的，如果我們有共識的話，在逐條審查的時候，我一定會有所堅持，也希望司法院、法務部能夠再針對本席所提出的其他幾個條文可以溝通的部分，我們再做一些溝通，希望在逐條審查時我們能夠有更實質的進展，好嗎？謝謝。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T12:12:53.166667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T12:12:55.166667+08:00","text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T12:12:55.466667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T12:12:59.466667+08:00","text":"接下來有請楊瓊瓔委員進行質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}