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"2026-08-19T12:13:56.666667+08:00","text":"秘書長，我們來討論法扶基金，我們為了保障經濟弱勢人民的訴訟權益，司法院每一年常態性來編列預算，用公帑來挹注法扶基金會，但是我們看到現行法扶資源的配置出現了嚴重明顯的失衡，也就是法扶案件當中高達九成涉及到刑事被告，同時真正協助犯罪被害人的比例大概只有一成。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:13:57.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:14:33.666667+08:00","text":"有鑑於本席認為如果像蓄意殺人、毒駕致死、詐騙、性侵、虐童的，這樣的重大犯罪我們應該重新來調整他適不適合適用在法律扶助的必要性，我們應該要將有限的資源、有限的公帑優先用於真正需要司法救濟的經濟弱勢及犯罪被害人，這也是我們成立法扶基金會最重要的宗旨及目標，也就是保障弱勢司法的權益。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:14:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:14:51.750000+08:00","text":"所以我個人要請教秘書長，司法院是否支持蓄意殺人、毒駕致死、虐童、性侵及重大詐騙排除在法律扶助的適用範圍，請來說明。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:14:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:15:02.333333+08:00","text":"其實剛剛委員講的這些都是強制辯護，是不是要由法扶來做？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:15:03.666667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:15:06.444444+08:00","text":"我不覺得是一定，因為……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:15:06.444444+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T12:15:07.444444+08:00","text":"謝謝你。","quality":0},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:15:06.888889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:15:15+08:00","text":"法扶沒有，還有義辯，他就是一定要有辯護人，只是我們資源要怎麼分配的問題而已。對。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:15:15.333333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:15:30.750000+08:00","text":"我非常感謝秘書長，你的見解也是因應了社會大眾，很多人問我為什麼被害人得不到這些資源，他又是弱勢，為什麼被害人是這樣的情勢？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:15:31+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:15:43.714286+08:00","text":"但是刑事被告竟然幾乎九成是用到我們的公帑，我感動的是聽到秘書長的論點跟我一樣，那接下來該怎麼做呢？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:15:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:16:01.400000+08:00","text":"當然犯罪被告因為無罪推定是世界原則，所以他一定會有辯護人，只是辯護人，尤其是強制辯護，那是分配的問題，要在法扶呢？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:16:02.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:16:04.200000+08:00","text":"還是要放義辯？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:16:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:16:06.800000+08:00","text":"還是要放在法院的公辯？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:16:07+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:16:08.800000+08:00","text":"我覺得這是分配的問題。對。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:16:09+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:16:09.750000+08:00","text":"我們對於……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:16:10+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:16:14.750000+08:00","text":"我們因應民情要怎麼分配，您的看法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:16:15+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:16:15.500000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:16:15.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:16:27.200000+08:00","text":"委員剛剛提到的這幾大犯罪是不是要由法扶來承擔，我覺得這是一個立法政策的問題，我們司法院尊重，因為這是立法政策。","quality":0.843},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:16:28+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:16:32+08:00","text":"所以你也同意剛剛本席所說的這個方向？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:16:32.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:16:33.833333+08:00","text":"就是我尊重，我不能說，因為……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:16:34+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:16:47.888889+08:00","text":"你尊重，我要謝謝你的尊重，我們希望能夠真正讓我們的公帑是運用在當時成立的目標，也就是保障弱勢司法的權益，這個非常重要，我們朝這個目標來做。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:16:48.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:17:13.833333+08:00","text":"接下來我要請教，書記官長期壓力這麼大，所以當時在葉金鳳擔任法務部長的時候，我們開始啟動法務部跟司法院……司法院的動作比法務部還早了半年，加了助理的名額進來，但是我們看到書記官的目的是要做什麼？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:17:14+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:17:21.800000+08:00","text":"他的核心精神是要協助法官審理案件，他的工作量應該是如此。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:17:22+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:17:24.777778+08:00","text":"但是現在書記官要做什麼？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:17:25+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:17:42.750000+08:00","text":"聽電話，聽了這麼多的電話，所以你們也看到了書記官的辛苦，而且負荷不了、案件delay，這樣的惡性循環，終於你們要成立全國電話中心，什麼時候開始試辦？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:17:43+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:17:44.777778+08:00","text":"我們預計12月開始試辦。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:17:45+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:17:46.333333+08:00","text":"1月份要正式上嘛？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:17:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:17:47.750000+08:00","text":"我們希望。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:17:49+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:17:49.833333+08:00","text":"1月份正式運作？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:17:50+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:17:57.666667+08:00","text":"我們希望能夠，因為這中間像剛剛委員也有質詢到，電話內容要怎麼設計，這是非常重要的。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:17:58.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:18:11.714286+08:00","text":"最重要是如委員所說的，我們希望書記官不要因為接聽電話而打斷他整個工作流程，而且接聽電話是有他的專業性，他不要被抱怨……對。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:18:12+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:18:24.833333+08:00","text":"秘書長，你現在講到一個重點，今天有了全國電話中心的目的就是要減輕書記官的壓力，好好的協助這些審判核心工作，這才是他當書記官的重點。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:18:25.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:18:32+08:00","text":"所以我們非常希望你不是只有把這個人力搬到那個人力，不是！","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:18:33+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:18:39.750000+08:00","text":"而是你要重新好好的去盤點書記官的人力不足，到底量體還有多少？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:18:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:18:46.666667+08:00","text":"真正釜底抽薪去解決這些問題，才是我們成立全國電話中心的目的，是不是？是。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:18:47+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:18:56.500000+08:00","text":"所以剛剛有委員提到，其實我們所有人數受限制，所以我們……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:18:57+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:18:57.857143+08:00","text":"現在總共多少人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:18:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:19:01.666667+08:00","text":"因為我們法定員額是1萬5,000人。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:19:02+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:19:02.800000+08:00","text":"實際員額呢？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:19:03+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:19:16.818182+08:00","text":"我們已經快接近1萬5,000了，所以我們現在是想方設法，因為我們要增員太難了，所以一定要用各種方法，可是書記官一個人要做兩個人的工作……","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:19:17+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:19:17.888889+08:00","text":"好，謝謝秘書長的回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:19:18+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:19:35.727273+08:00","text":"我想我們共同的目標，第一個，整體性探討書記官的工作量，接聽電話拉出來之後，他的量體人力到底是足還是不足要做整體規劃。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-19T12:19:36.166667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:19:51.500000+08:00","text":"同時，在全國電話中心裡，整個規劃必須要讓人民善用，而且是適用的，這非常重要，我們也期待12月的試辦成功，1月份正式上路，謝謝。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"高秘書長金枝","start":"2026-08-19T12:19:52+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T12:19:52.666667+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員支持。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T12:19:53.166667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T12:19:55.452381+08:00","text":"謝謝楊委員的發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T12:19:55.752381+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T12:19:58.895238+08:00","text":"接下來有請范雲委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}