{"error":false,"id":["171085"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":171085,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/171085","日期":"2026-08-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-5-22,15-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[22,15],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會","內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期教育及文化、內政委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-19T11:21:34+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-19T11:35:12+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:38","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0db75461a96d9b80b8338358657d63b8c288d97a61ada355f0d91e61b44ec3a7642409915d7b18685ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳培瑜","委員發言時間":"11:21:34 - 11:35:12","會議時間":"2026-08-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查\n(一) 委員黃仁等17人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\n(二) 委員高金素梅等24人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\n(三) 委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等17人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\n(四) 委員林倩綺等16人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\n(五) 委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\n(六) 委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等16人擬具「原住民族學校法草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":6.84846875,"end":10.62846875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":10.99971875,"end":11.286593750000002,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":11.438468750000002,"end":13.497218750000002,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":17.83409375,"end":111.06846875000001,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":111.57471875,"end":135.13221875000002,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":136.39784375000002,"end":142.25346875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖司長高賢","start":142.32096875000002,"end":210.58034375000003,"speaker_score":0.936},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖司長高賢","start":211.42409375000003,"end":229.81784375,"speaker_score":0.936},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖司長高賢","start":230.05409375000002,"end":260.41221875,"speaker_score":0.936},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":260.86784375,"end":343.57221875000005,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖司長高賢","start":337.31159375000004,"end":339.21846875,"speaker_score":0.936},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":345.96846875,"end":346.76159375000003,"speaker_score":0.828},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":346.76159375000003,"end":397.58909375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":398.63534375,"end":437.44784375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":434.37659375000004,"end":434.47784375000003,"speaker_score":0.828},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":434.69721875000005,"end":434.81534375,"speaker_score":0.828},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"廖司長高賢","start":434.81534375,"end":434.86596875000004,"speaker_score":0.936},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":434.86596875000004,"end":434.91659375,"speaker_score":0.828},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":435.47346875000005,"end":435.50721875000005,"speaker_score":0.828},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":437.90346875,"end":454.59284375000004,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":454.91346875000005,"end":472.53096875000006,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":472.96971875,"end":520.00034375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":520.45596875,"end":526.3115937499999,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":526.91909375,"end":553.37909375,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":553.9865937500001,"end":559.5890937500001,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":559.80846875,"end":736.6922187499999,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":737.04659375,"end":738.95346875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":739.25721875,"end":799.2140937500001,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張廖次長萬堅","start":798.06659375,"end":810.68909375,"speaker_score":0.828},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":810.6553437500002,"end":815.05971875,"speaker_score":0.971},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員培瑜","start":815.92034375,"end":817.9622187500001,"speaker_score":0.971}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":10.76,"text":"好 謝謝主席 第一個我先請高教司司長 謝謝"},{"start":10.76,"end":13.56,"text":"好 請司長上備訓材"},{"start":13.56,"end":23.6,"text":"好 司長吳安 我快速跟你說明一個我們辦公室最近收到蠻多陳情案"},{"start":23.6,"end":26.92,"text":"但我想今天不會立刻有答案 我就是先把問題帶出來"},{"start":27.28,"end":29.560000000000002,"text":"就是關於教師升等的外省制度"},{"start":29.560000000000002,"end":33.88,"text":"我們在頭影片上展現兩個學校 我只是就這兩個學校來舉例"},{"start":33.88,"end":38.68,"text":"我相信 司長你從文字上看得出來 學校A的規範非常的多"},{"start":38.68,"end":40.32,"text":"而且非常的複雜 非常的多元"},{"start":40.32,"end":45.8,"text":"它規範了什麼呢 規範了所謂外省委員的領選資格 積極條件"},{"start":45.8,"end":48.24,"text":"還有迴避室友 其實寫得非常清楚"},{"start":48.24,"end":52.32000000000001,"text":"可是B校呢 相關的規範要求其實非常非常簡單"},{"start":52.32000000000001,"end":56.8,"text":"好 也就是說 如果我是大學老師 我要申請這個升等的時候"},{"start":56.839999999999996,"end":60.239999999999995,"text":"外省制度 我在A校跟B校會遇到不同的情況"},{"start":60.239999999999995,"end":64.12,"text":"可是我還是我 我的專業表現 還是我的專業表現"},{"start":64.12,"end":67.6,"text":"當然我知道 在大學自治的前提底下"},{"start":67.6,"end":71.44,"text":"雖然教育部訂定有專科以上學校教師資格審定辦法"},{"start":71.44,"end":75.6,"text":"可是因為這個辦法的授權給予大學自治很大的空間"},{"start":75.6,"end":77.92,"text":"所以我會說 這兩個落差很大"},{"start":77.92,"end":81.67999999999999,"text":"這是第一個關於升等 外省的時候外省委員的規範"},{"start":81.67999999999999,"end":84.32,"text":"那第二個我們來看一下 我再舉第二個例子"},{"start":84.32,"end":89.11999999999999,"text":"如果他遇到相關的救濟事件發生的時候呢"},{"start":89.11999999999999,"end":92,"text":"救濟資格跟管道的規範也截然不同"},{"start":92,"end":95.88,"text":"在我的左手邊 學校C的部分呢 當事人"},{"start":95.88,"end":97.91999999999999,"text":"簡報左邊學校C的當事人"},{"start":97.91999999999999,"end":101.72,"text":"他的系級院級委員是可以針對外省意見提起認定"},{"start":101.72,"end":105.8,"text":"可是右邊學校D 他則是規定只有校級的委員"},{"start":105.8,"end":108.35999999999999,"text":"可以在校級會議上提起認定"},{"start":108.35999999999999,"end":110.75999999999999,"text":"好 我相信這個規範 司長應該非常熟悉"},{"start":110.75999999999999,"end":113.88,"text":"一樣 在相關教育部的法規授權底下"},{"start":113.92,"end":115.67999999999999,"text":"大學有自治的權利"},{"start":115.67999999999999,"end":117.16,"text":"我沒有要針對這些學校"},{"start":117.16,"end":119.75999999999999,"text":"所以我想會後我們不要針對個別學校來討論"},{"start":119.75999999999999,"end":123.19999999999999,"text":"我比較希望教育部有沒有機會開啟通盤的討論"},{"start":123.19999999999999,"end":126.36,"text":"當然這個討論必須要邀集大學校長"},{"start":126.36,"end":129.24,"text":"跟相關有相關外省經驗的老師"},{"start":129.24,"end":131.72,"text":"甚至是所有必須要被審查的老師"},{"start":131.72,"end":135.32,"text":"我認為大家在這些制度上 一定心裡面都有一些"},{"start":136.4,"end":137.64,"text":"話想說"},{"start":137.64,"end":139.84,"text":"所以我想我是不是就今天先提出來這邊"},{"start":139.84,"end":142.32,"text":"拜託教育部進行相關研議 好嗎 來 司長"},{"start":142.35999999999999,"end":146.56,"text":"好 謝謝委員對於那個整個教評會的這個設置"},{"start":146.56,"end":150.28,"text":"的一個教師資格審定的一個看法的一個提出"},{"start":150.28,"end":152.92,"text":"那先跟委員快速的回應兩個重點"},{"start":152.92,"end":157.07999999999998,"text":"第一個 由於每個學校在教師資格審定"},{"start":157.07999999999998,"end":160.56,"text":"送外省的那個分階是不一樣的"},{"start":160.56,"end":164.2,"text":"有的學校是在校教評 有的學校是在院教評"},{"start":164.2,"end":166.04,"text":"那有的學校是在系教評"},{"start":166.04,"end":168.07999999999998,"text":"那這個部分就成如剛才委員所說的"},{"start":168.07999999999998,"end":172.24,"text":"我們是尊重學校在整個外省制度上面的一個設計"},{"start":172.24,"end":175.64000000000001,"text":"那第二個部分就是有關於外省委員的這一個"},{"start":175.64000000000001,"end":178.16,"text":"遴選或者是相關的條件"},{"start":178.16,"end":181.52,"text":"教育部規範的是一個基本的一個規範"},{"start":181.52,"end":183.20000000000002,"text":"第一個就是不能低階高審"},{"start":183.20000000000002,"end":186.96,"text":"也就是如果在審查教授資格的時候"},{"start":186.96,"end":190.52,"text":"原則上是以教授資格或者是中研院的研究員"},{"start":190.52,"end":196.76000000000002,"text":"或院士作為審查人為主要的一個審查人的標準"},{"start":196.76000000000002,"end":200.08,"text":"那至於說學校要在制定更細緻的"},{"start":200.08,"end":205,"text":"比如說依照行政程序法訂定相關的迴避要件的話"},{"start":205,"end":206.8,"text":"這個也是剛才委員所說的"},{"start":206.8,"end":211.48000000000002,"text":"這個是尊重學校的一個設計 制度的一個設計"},{"start":211.48000000000002,"end":213.24,"text":"那至於就計的結果"},{"start":213.24,"end":216.60000000000002,"text":"那我們根據目前的現行就計有幾個管道"},{"start":216.60000000000002,"end":222.04000000000002,"text":"第一個如果真的對整個教評會對於外省委員的意見"},{"start":222.04000000000002,"end":225.12,"text":"認為真的有專業的一個判斷"},{"start":225.12,"end":229.08,"text":"認為他是有不足或者是足以撼動他專業性的地方"},{"start":229.08,"end":235.12,"text":"其實是可以重啟這個所謂的外省審查的"},{"start":235.12,"end":241.16000000000003,"text":"那第二個如果說當事人對於這個外省意見有所謂的質疑的時候"},{"start":241.16000000000003,"end":244.84,"text":"或者是審查意見有一個不足的地方"},{"start":244.84,"end":247.68,"text":"他其實可以提出相關的就計"},{"start":247.68,"end":251.8,"text":"那就計的管道有所謂的書院或者是行政就計"},{"start":251.8,"end":257.16,"text":"那另外也可以透過我們中央各級學校生評會的一個制度來"},{"start":257.20000000000005,"end":259.56,"text":"作為他就計的一個管道"},{"start":259.56,"end":260.52000000000004,"text":"以上說明"},{"start":260.52000000000004,"end":263.92,"text":"我當然都可以理解相關大的精神"},{"start":263.92,"end":266.24,"text":"包含不可以低階高審這件事情"},{"start":266.24,"end":267.68,"text":"然後尊重大學自治"},{"start":267.68,"end":271.04,"text":"但是我要說的是我剛說通盤的設計這件事情"},{"start":271.04,"end":272.8,"text":"我認為應該要與時俱進"},{"start":272.8,"end":275.44000000000005,"text":"因為如同我們只要每次談到高等教育"},{"start":275.44000000000005,"end":278.68,"text":"我們都會發現台灣高等教育要留財越來越困難"},{"start":278.68,"end":281.88,"text":"然後甚至大家會引用其他國家的薪水"},{"start":281.88,"end":286,"text":"其他國家的待遇來看待台灣的高等教育留財的問題"},{"start":286.04,"end":288.28,"text":"所以我認為其實不是只有薪水"},{"start":288.28,"end":291.44,"text":"一定是在整體的教學環境或是整個制度上"},{"start":291.44,"end":295,"text":"讓很多人覺得好像留在台灣的高等教育沒有比較好"},{"start":295,"end":297,"text":"所以我還是要提出我的建議"},{"start":297,"end":299.44,"text":"雖然你剛剛講的辦法現在都已經在實行"},{"start":299.44,"end":304.24,"text":"但是一定有一些在制度的設計跟第一線的需求產生了一些落差"},{"start":304.24,"end":306.36,"text":"我這邊還是要拜託教育部帶回去研議"},{"start":306.36,"end":311.04,"text":"因為升等制度對每一個學術工作者來說都非常的重要"},{"start":311.04,"end":313.4,"text":"可是如果因為尊重大學自治"},{"start":313.4,"end":316.12,"text":"產生這麼多學校跟學校間的差異"},{"start":316.12,"end":318.91999999999996,"text":"我認為這些外省資格委員的認定"},{"start":318.91999999999996,"end":321.64,"text":"外省委員意見一億的處理機制"},{"start":321.64,"end":324.84,"text":"會不會影響到我們自己國內其他學校"},{"start":324.84,"end":327.79999999999995,"text":"或者是世界各校對於我國學術的信賴"},{"start":327.79999999999995,"end":329.64,"text":"我認為這會是一個一億"},{"start":329.64,"end":332.23999999999995,"text":"我也希望協助台灣的高等教師"},{"start":332.23999999999995,"end":336.12,"text":"在這件事情上有更好被看待的環境跟更好的機制"},{"start":336.12,"end":337.91999999999996,"text":"要拜託教育部帶回去研議好不好"},{"start":337.91999999999996,"end":339.15999999999997,"text":"好 沒問題 謝謝委員"},{"start":339.15999999999997,"end":340.28,"text":"謝謝 那次長請回"},{"start":340.32,"end":343.64,"text":"接下來有請張亮萬間次長 謝謝"},{"start":346,"end":346.67999999999995,"text":"好 委員好"},{"start":346.67999999999995,"end":350.35999999999996,"text":"好 次長因為今天談的是原鄉的議題"},{"start":350.35999999999996,"end":353.76,"text":"但是我想原鄉大家比較容易聯想到是偏鄉"},{"start":353.76,"end":356.47999999999996,"text":"所以我們其實今天想要來談一個比較大的命題"},{"start":356.47999999999996,"end":358.28,"text":"但是沒有辦法立刻解決"},{"start":358.28,"end":361.15999999999997,"text":"但我想先把狀況跟次長說明"},{"start":361.15999999999997,"end":363.79999999999995,"text":"來 第一個 偏鄉學生面臨什麼樣的困境"},{"start":363.79999999999995,"end":369.23999999999995,"text":"這張投影片其實展現出來的是一個很直接現場的狀況"},{"start":369.28000000000003,"end":374.52,"text":"就是偏鄉學生在全體學生的占比正在緩步上升"},{"start":374.52,"end":377.56,"text":"那這當然跟全國少子化有關係"},{"start":377.56,"end":378.92,"text":"那因為全國的少子化"},{"start":378.92,"end":381.48,"text":"偏鄉的出生當然也有下降"},{"start":381.48,"end":385.6,"text":"但是偏鄉學生占的比例卻在整體人口當中"},{"start":385.6,"end":387.24,"text":"依照國發會的統計也好"},{"start":387.24,"end":388.84000000000003,"text":"依照教育部自己的統計"},{"start":388.84000000000003,"end":391.40000000000003,"text":"偏鄉學生的占比緩步提高"},{"start":391.40000000000003,"end":394.64,"text":"那人口緩步提高這個沒有任何問題"},{"start":394.64,"end":396.84000000000003,"text":"但我們看見另外一個問題"},{"start":396.84000000000003,"end":398.6,"text":"來 下一張"},{"start":398.64000000000004,"end":402.08000000000004,"text":"偏鄉地區的孩子們在小一入學的時候"},{"start":402.08000000000004,"end":405.96000000000004,"text":"所收到去參加了一個學歷檢測"},{"start":405.96000000000004,"end":407.24,"text":"這個時候會做的事情"},{"start":407.24,"end":410.64000000000004,"text":"我們發現從2018年到2023年以來"},{"start":410.64000000000004,"end":412.64000000000004,"text":"國英數設置"},{"start":412.64000000000004,"end":415.56,"text":"偏鄉小孩代加強的比例"},{"start":415.56,"end":419.40000000000003,"text":"超過全國倍數的比例其實逐年上升"},{"start":419.40000000000003,"end":420.36,"text":"以國文來說"},{"start":420.36,"end":422.48,"text":"從2018年的1.97倍"},{"start":422.48,"end":425.32000000000005,"text":"到了2023到了2.19倍"},{"start":425.36,"end":428.36,"text":"英文也是1.74來到1.90"},{"start":428.36,"end":431.12,"text":"數學1.76來到1.87"},{"start":431.12,"end":433.32,"text":"社會1.98來到2.18"},{"start":433.32,"end":436.08,"text":"自然1.76來到1.92"},{"start":436.08,"end":441.92,"text":"也就是偏鄉孩子在小一入學的時候"},{"start":441.92,"end":445.24,"text":"就存在嚴重的學歷落差"},{"start":445.24,"end":447.32,"text":"相較於都會地區的孩子"},{"start":447.32,"end":451.44,"text":"而且這個學歷的落差逐年上升"},{"start":451.44,"end":453.96,"text":"這個是來自於教育部的統計數字"},{"start":454,"end":458.44,"text":"還有相關的研究都發現有這個問題"},{"start":458.44,"end":460.68,"text":"還有包含我們立法院預算中心"},{"start":460.68,"end":463.84,"text":"在2021年的報告也做出了類似的結論"},{"start":463.84,"end":466.91999999999996,"text":"那這個預算中心一定是有跟教育部調資料"},{"start":466.91999999999996,"end":468.32,"text":"簡單的一句話總結"},{"start":468.32,"end":471.67999999999995,"text":"就是偏遠地區的學前教育仍待強化"},{"start":471.67999999999995,"end":473.03999999999996,"text":"來看下一張"},{"start":473.03999999999996,"end":476.4,"text":"我們跟我們長時間跟偏遠地區的校長老師"},{"start":476.4,"end":477.88,"text":"還有很多的研究團體"},{"start":477.88,"end":479.64,"text":"保持互動跟討論"},{"start":479.64,"end":482.64,"text":"最近這幾年大家更系統性的"},{"start":482.68,"end":484.24,"text":"結構性的來研究"},{"start":484.24,"end":486.28,"text":"而不是以個案來研究"},{"start":486.28,"end":489.76,"text":"到底偏鄉的孩子們他們在所謂家庭環境"},{"start":489.76,"end":491.8,"text":"社區環境原生家庭"},{"start":491.8,"end":495.12,"text":"他們在入學前通常遭遇了哪些困難"},{"start":495.12,"end":496.88,"text":"這個是其中某一個孩子"},{"start":496.88,"end":498.91999999999996,"text":"跟很多孩子所表現出來的樣態"},{"start":498.91999999999996,"end":500.47999999999996,"text":"例如說在家庭的部分"},{"start":500.47999999999996,"end":503.12,"text":"他會有身體的虐待情緒的虐待"},{"start":503.12,"end":505,"text":"甚至還有性侵的個案"},{"start":505,"end":507.03999999999996,"text":"或者是家庭疏於照顧"},{"start":507.03999999999996,"end":509.24,"text":"在生活端在情緒關懷"},{"start":509.24,"end":511.44,"text":"更不要講當家庭失去了功能"},{"start":511.44,"end":513.84,"text":"有家人坐牢藥物濫用的問題"},{"start":513.84,"end":515.48,"text":"家人暴力傾向的問題"},{"start":515.48,"end":519.16,"text":"家人有精神疾病的困境或者是離婚等等的這些問題"},{"start":519.16,"end":522.6,"text":"他可能發生在單一一個孩子身上"},{"start":522.6,"end":525.64,"text":"而當單一一個孩子身上發生這樣的情況的時候"},{"start":525.64,"end":530.48,"text":"其實衛福部有相關社安網會及時介入"},{"start":530.48,"end":531.44,"text":"這個沒有問題"},{"start":531.44,"end":534.24,"text":"我要再講我們社安2.0跟社安3.0"},{"start":534.24,"end":537.04,"text":"確實有發揮社照的功能"},{"start":537.04,"end":538.32,"text":"社福的功能"},{"start":538.36,"end":541.7600000000001,"text":"用不同的問題面向切入去協助這個小孩"},{"start":541.7600000000001,"end":544.8000000000001,"text":"所以現在我們看到另外一個比較大的問題就是"},{"start":544.8000000000001,"end":546,"text":"同一個小孩身上"},{"start":546,"end":547.6800000000001,"text":"他可能因為遇到了這些議題"},{"start":547.6800000000001,"end":549.5600000000001,"text":"所以他可能身上會有了"},{"start":549.5600000000001,"end":550.88,"text":"就是他的周邊環境"},{"start":550.88,"end":552.6,"text":"會有七到八個志工"},{"start":552.6,"end":554,"text":"同時"},{"start":554,"end":556.32,"text":"因為不同的問題在服務這個小孩"},{"start":556.32,"end":558,"text":"那我們來試想一下次長"},{"start":558,"end":561.32,"text":"當一個小孩他的社區環境跟家庭環境"},{"start":561.32,"end":563.32,"text":"是現在投影片上這個狀況"},{"start":563.32,"end":565.24,"text":"你大概可以想像這個小孩"},{"start":565.24,"end":567.12,"text":"他面臨這八九個社工的時候"},{"start":567.12,"end":569.28,"text":"其實沒有人幫他統整這些社工"},{"start":569.28,"end":570.48,"text":"給予他的協助"},{"start":570.48,"end":573.04,"text":"於是最後統整的責任到了誰身上呢"},{"start":573.04,"end":574.28,"text":"我們來看下一張"},{"start":574.28,"end":576.48,"text":"就到了學校老師身上"},{"start":576.48,"end":577.84,"text":"這個是偏鄉老師"},{"start":577.84,"end":580.4,"text":"其實從我以前在花蓮自己擔任老師"},{"start":580.4,"end":582.52,"text":"我就發現我們在偏鄉的時候"},{"start":582.52,"end":585.76,"text":"我們幾乎要兼顧部分的家庭功能"},{"start":585.76,"end":587.96,"text":"當然我們還有學校的教學業務"},{"start":587.96,"end":589.36,"text":"我們還有行政的事務"},{"start":589.36,"end":591.48,"text":"而當我們自己身為老師"},{"start":591.48,"end":595.5600000000001,"text":"我們想要一肩扛起協助這些學生跟他的家庭"},{"start":595.5999999999999,"end":598.4,"text":"甚至現在我們還要統整社工的時候"},{"start":598.4,"end":601.3599999999999,"text":"其實我們每一個老師變成了一座孤島"},{"start":601.3599999999999,"end":604.1999999999999,"text":"我覺得這個是偏鄉老師在面臨跟"},{"start":604.1999999999999,"end":606.4,"text":"多會地區老師更大的困境"},{"start":606.4,"end":607.16,"text":"那當然我知道"},{"start":607.16,"end":609.16,"text":"因為我們今天下午要修偏鄉條例"},{"start":609.16,"end":610.76,"text":"也非常多委員都很關心"},{"start":610.76,"end":612.5999999999999,"text":"偏鄉教師的待遇的問題"},{"start":612.599999999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多的社福資源"},{"start":788.12,"end":790.52,"text":"去協助這些孩子們長大後的家庭"},{"start":790.52,"end":793,"text":"我認為我們及早介入做更多事情"},{"start":793,"end":796.28,"text":"可以更加積極協助這些老師家長跟學生"},{"start":796.28,"end":797.68,"text":"好那時間有限"},{"start":797.68,"end":799.1999999999999,"text":"要不要次長回應一下"},{"start":799.32,"end":800.9200000000001,"text":"那建議我們會來努力"},{"start":800.9200000000001,"end":803.96,"text":"因為有的涉及到跟衛福部的跨部的合作"},{"start":803.96,"end":807.2,"text":"有的是我們邊疆條裡面可以再增加支援"},{"start":807.2,"end":808.2,"text":"有的人力的部分"},{"start":808.2,"end":810.6,"text":"我們也會來想辦法來協助"},{"start":810.6,"end":812.08,"text":"謝謝 我想我就是提出問題"},{"start":812.08,"end":813.2,"text":"我們一步一步來努力"},{"start":813.2,"end":815,"text":"謝謝次長 謝謝主席"},{"start":815.88,"end":817.88,"text":"好非常感謝陳培育委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:21:34.597778+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:21:36.391111+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:21:36.988889+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:21:44.162222+08:00","text":"第一個我先請高教司司長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:21:45.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:21:46.510000+08:00","text":"請司長上備詢臺。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:21:47.918571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:21:48.994286+08:00","text":"司長午安。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:21:49.352857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:22:03.384615+08:00","text":"我快速跟你說明，我們辦公室最近收到滿多陳情案，但我想今天不會立刻有答案，我就是先把問題帶出來，就是關於教師升等的外審制度。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:22:03.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:22:15.635200+08:00","text":"我們在投影片上展現的兩個學校，我只是就這兩個學校來舉例，相信司長你從文字上看得出來，學校A的規範非常多，而且非常複雜、非常多元，它規範了什麼呢？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:22:15.854400+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:22:26.116000+08:00","text":"規範了所謂外審委員的遴選資格、積極條件還有迴避事由，寫得非常清楚，可是B校相關的規範要求其實非常非常簡單。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:22:26.506667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:22:37.926000+08:00","text":"也就是說，如果我是大學老師，我要申請升等的時候，就外審制度，我在A校跟B校會遇到不同的情況，可是我還是我、我的專業表現還是我的專業表現。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:22:38.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:22:55.500952+08:00","text":"當然我知道在大學自治的前提底下，雖然教育部訂有專科以上學校教師資格審定辦法，可是因為這個辦法的授權給予大學自治很大的空間，所以我會說這兩個落差很大，這是第一個，關於升等外審的時候外審委員的規範。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:22:55.826667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:23:05.808000+08:00","text":"第二個，我們來看一下，我再舉第二個例子，如果相關救濟事件發生的時候，救濟資格跟管道的規範也截然不同。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:23:06+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:23:22.146667+08:00","text":"在我的簡報左邊、學校C的當事人、系級及院級委員可以針對外審意見提請認定；可是右邊的學校D則規定，只有校級的委員可以在校級會議上提請認定。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:23:22.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:23:33.623158+08:00","text":"我相信這個規範司長應該非常熟悉，也一樣，在相關教育部的法規授權底下，大學有自治的權利，我沒有要針對這些學校，所以我想會後我們不要針對個別學校來討論。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:23:33.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:23:37.028000+08:00","text":"我比較希望教育部，有沒有機會開啟通盤討論？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:23:37.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:23:51.226667+08:00","text":"當然這個討論必須邀集大學校長跟有相關外審經驗的老師，甚至是所有必須要被審查的老師，我認為在這些制度上大家心裡面一定都有些話想說。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:23:51.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:23:56.165000+08:00","text":"所以我今天先提出來，拜託教育部進行相關研議，好嗎？司長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2026-08-19T11:23:56.581053+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:24:03.105263+08:00","text":"謝謝委員對於整個教評會的設置、教師資格審定部分提出看法。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2026-08-19T11:24:04.468571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:24:26.041905+08:00","text":"先跟委員快速回應兩個重點，第一個，由於每個學校在教師資格審定、送外審的分階是不一樣的，有的學校是在校教評、有的學校是在院教評，而有的學校是在系教評，這個部分就誠如剛才委員所說的，我們是尊重學校在整個外審制度上面的設計。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2026-08-19T11:24:26.418947+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:24:50.448000+08:00","text":"第二個部分，有關於外審委員遴選或者相關條件，教育部規範的是一個基本規範，首先是不能低階高審，也就是在審查教授資格的時候，原則上以教授資格或是中研院的研究員或院士作為主要的審查人之標準。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2026-08-19T11:24:51.708571+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:25:03.509474+08:00","text":"學校要再制定更細緻的，比如依照行政程序法訂定相關迴避要件的話，也是剛才委員所說的，這個尊重學校的制度設計。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2026-08-19T11:25:10.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:25:54.280000+08:00","text":"第一個，如果真的整個教評會對於外審委員的意見，認為專業判斷是有不足或者足以撼動其專業性之處，其實是可以重啟所謂的外審審查；第二個，如果當事人對於外審意見有質疑時，或者是審查意見有不足之處，他其實可以提出相關救濟，救濟的管道包括訴願或者行政救濟，另外也可透過各級學校申評會的制度作為救濟的管道，以上說明。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:25:54.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:26:19.812727+08:00","text":"我當然都可以理解相關大方向的精神，包含不可以低階高審這些事情，尊重大學自治，但我要說的是，我剛剛說通盤的設計這件事情，我認為應該與時俱進，如同只要每次談到高等教育，我們都會發現臺灣高等教育要留才越來越困難，甚至大家會引用其他國家的薪水、待遇來看待臺灣高等教育留才的問題。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:26:20.384615+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:26:28.838182+08:00","text":"我認為其實不是只有薪水，一定是在整體的教學環境或是整個制度上，讓很多人覺得好像留在臺灣的高等教育沒有比較好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:26:29+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:26:40.227500+08:00","text":"所以我還是要提出建議，雖然你剛剛講的辦法現在都已經在實行，但一定有些是在制度設計跟第一線需求上產生了落差，我這邊還是要拜託教育部帶回去研議。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:26:40.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:27:09.935238+08:00","text":"因為升等制度對於每一個學術工作者來說都非常重要，可是如果因為尊重大學自治，產生這麼多學校跟學校間的差異，這些外審委員的資格認定、外審委員意見疑義的處理機制，會不會影響到我們國內其他學校或者是世界各校對於我國學術的信賴，我認為這會是一個疑義；我也希望協助臺灣的高等教師，在這件事情上有更好被看待的環境及更好的機制。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:27:10.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:27:11.405714+08:00","text":"要拜託教育部帶回去研議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:27:11.534286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:27:11.791429+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖司長高賢","start":"2026-08-19T11:27:12.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:27:13.005000+08:00","text":"沒問題，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:27:13.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:27:14.120000+08:00","text":"謝謝，司長請回。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:27:14.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:27:17.384615+08:00","text":"接下來有請張廖萬堅次長，謝謝。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-19T11:27:20.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:27:20.680000+08:00","text":"委員好。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:27:20.925333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:27:34.920000+08:00","text":"次長，因為今天談的是原鄉議題，就原鄉大家比較容易聯想到的是偏鄉，所以我們今天想要談一個比較大的命題，沒有辦法立刻解決，但我想先把狀況跟次長說明。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:27:35.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:27:37.635000+08:00","text":"第一個，偏鄉學生面臨什麼樣的困境？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:27:37.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:27:48.258000+08:00","text":"這張投影片展現出來的是一個很直接的現場狀況，就是偏鄉學生在全體學生中的占比正在緩步上升。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:27:48.753846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:28:05.167273+08:00","text":"這當然跟全國少子化有關，因為全國少子化，偏鄉的出生率也下降，但是偏鄉學生占的比例在整體人口當中，依照國發會的統計也好，或依照教育部自己的統計，偏鄉學生的占比緩步提高。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:28:05.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:28:33.144000+08:00","text":"人口緩步提高，這個沒有任何問題，但我們看見另外一個問題，偏鄉地區的孩子們在小一入學時參加的學力檢測，這是會做的事情，我們發現從2018年到2023年，國、英、數、社、自，偏鄉小孩待加強的比率超過全國比率的倍數逐年上升。","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:28:33.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:28:49.620000+08:00","text":"以國文來說，從2018年的1.97倍到2023達2.19倍；英文也是，從1.74倍來到1.90倍；數學從1.76倍來到1.87倍；社會從1.98倍來到2.18倍；自然從1.76倍來到1.92倍。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:28:50.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:29:05.123077+08:00","text":"也就是偏鄉孩子在小一入學的時候就存在嚴重的學力落差，相較於都會地區的孩子，而且這個學力的落差逐年上升。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:29:05.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:29:20.748889+08:00","text":"這個是來自於教育部的統計數字，此外相關的研究都發現有這個問題，包含立法院預算中心在2021年的報告也做出了類似結論，預算中心一定是有跟教育部調資料。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:29:20.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:29:25.456000+08:00","text":"簡單一句話，總結就是偏遠地區的學前教育仍待強化。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:29:27.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:29:48.898667+08:00","text":"我們長時間跟偏遠地區的校長、老師及很多研究團體保持互動跟討論，最近這幾年大家更系統性、結構性地研究，而不是以個案來研究到底偏鄉的孩子們在家庭環境、社區環境、原生家庭，他們在入學前通常遭遇了哪些困難？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:29:49.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:30:16.354286+08:00","text":"這是其中某一個孩子以及很多孩子所表現出來的樣態，例如在家庭部分，會有身體的虐待、情緒的虐待，甚至還有性侵的個案，或者是家庭疏於照顧，包括生活端、情緒關懷，更不要講當家庭失去功能，包括有家人坐牢、藥物濫用、家人暴力傾向的問題、家人有精神疾病的困境或者是離婚等等，這些問題可能發生在單一的孩子身上。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:30:16.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:30:25.280000+08:00","text":"而當單一的孩子身上發生這樣的情況時，其實衛福部有相關的社安網會及時介入，這個沒有問題。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:30:26.732308+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:30:35.560000+08:00","text":"社安2.0和社安3.0確實有發揮社福的功能，從不同的問題面向切入，去協助這個小孩。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:30:35.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:30:49.491429+08:00","text":"所以現在我們看到另外一個比較大的問題，就是同一個小孩可能因為遇到這些議題，周邊環境有七到八個志工因為不同問題而同時在服務他。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:30:50.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:31:06.869333+08:00","text":"次長，那麼我們來試想一下，當一個小孩的社區環境和家庭環境是本席投影片上面這個狀況，你大概可以想像這個小孩面對這八、九個社工的時候，其實沒有人幫他統整這些社工所給予的協助，於是最後統整的責任到了誰身上呢？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:31:08.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:31:10.235556+08:00","text":"就到了學校老師身上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:31:10.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:31:40.200000+08:00","text":"這就是偏鄉老師……其實從我自己以前在花蓮擔任老師就發現，我們在偏鄉幾乎都要兼顧部分家庭功能，當然，我們還有學校的教學業務和行政事務，當我們身為老師，想要一肩扛起，協助這些學生和他的家庭，甚至現在還要統整社工的時候，其實我們每一個老師會變成一座孤島，我覺得這是偏鄉老師比都會地區老師面臨到的更大的困境。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:31:40.526667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:31:56.454286+08:00","text":"當然，我知道我們今天下午要修偏鄉條例（偏遠地區學校教育發展條例），非常多委員也都很關心偏鄉教師的待遇問題、偏鄉孩子師生比的問題，或者是過去大家比較習慣關心的是偏鄉硬體設備、閱讀資源和數位資源，但這些都是錢可以解決的問題。","quality":0.832},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:31:56.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:01.040000+08:00","text":"我認為比較大的困境、沒有辦法解決的就是我剛剛說的這些行政事務。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:01.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:07.837333+08:00","text":"我知道教育部非常、非常努力在做行政減量，但是減少的量被從哪些地方加回來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:08.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:18.920000+08:00","text":"這可能不是教育部主責，也不是教育部發動的，但卻還是增加了非常多行政工作，而增加最多的這些事情可能大量消耗老師的心力，最後老師自己變成一座孤島。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:19.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:34.152000+08:00","text":"我們比較希望透過結構和制度的討論來積極協助這些老師，其實當老師狀況好了，他回頭去服務他的學生，我相信孩子會過得更好，也有機會回過頭來做到我們辦公室過去一直在跟教育部講的，家庭教育功能也補上來。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:34.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:32:41.440000+08:00","text":"家庭教育補上來，老師這裡補上來，孩子就有可能過得更好，也許我前面提到學力落差的部分就有可能逐年改進。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:32:44.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:33:13.065714+08:00","text":"現在整體橫向聯繫失靈，包含跟社政溝通機制失靈、老師承擔很多不屬於學校的責任，還有這次修法的時候我其實也想提出的，對於非山非市的學校，過去是美意，但是在偏鄉條例和沒有偏鄉條例的情況下，非山非市的學校反而被摒除在外，包含沒有久任獎金、沒有學士後學分班，這些老師的福利完全被規範在外，這些是我希望下午有機會提到的。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:33:13.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:33:16.315000+08:00","text":"接下來我要說的是：最缺的不是錢，而是人。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:33:16.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:33:39.508000+08:00","text":"講了這麼多，我會具體給出建議，當然我也不是只有給出建議，我們辦公室後續會持續和教育部開會，希望偏鄉教育的很多問題，可以透過跟社福單位、民間研究團體甚至第一線的老師、第一線的社工去討論，因為讓社工工作量減輕、讓老師工作量減輕，然後讓家長可以得到支持，孩子就有機會變得更好。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:33:39.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:33:42.940000+08:00","text":"當然，我希望下午我們修訂偏鄉條例的時候有機會討論到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:33:43.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:34:11.346667+08:00","text":"還有家庭教育，我要再次拜託，有關教育部的家庭教育，我上次已經說，我們應該開發多元家庭教育教案的可能，所謂多元家庭教育教案，意思就是，在城市地區，可能大家很習慣聽講座、很習慣去工作坊、很習慣讀書會、很習慣在電影欣賞後討論家庭教育，但是在國外，例如在澳洲、在日本，已經開發出適合不同鄉鎮的家庭教育方案必須要去執行，而不是用同一種概念去執行。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:34:11.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:34:19.675556+08:00","text":"再者，我希望後續我們要和衛福部討論，社福機構有沒有機會提早介入，減輕老師的心理耗能？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:34:20.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:34:22.880000+08:00","text":"以孩子為中心的服務機制又會是什麼樣子？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:34:23.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:34:31.604444+08:00","text":"我認為衛福部未來在以孩子們為中心去協助孩子們的時候，其實很需要教育部的意見，跟教育部做跨部會溝通。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:34:31.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:34:44.348571+08:00","text":"這不是一個好解的題目，但是因為我剛剛說的學力落差、能力落差越來越大，其實我們越來越擔心：未來國家會不會要付出更多社福資源去協助這些孩子們長大後的家庭？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:34:44.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:34:50.087059+08:00","text":"我認為我們及早介入、做更多事情，可以更加積極地去協助這些老師、家長和學生。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:34:50.746667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:34:53.031111+08:00","text":"時間有限，次長要不要簡單回應一下？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"張廖次長萬堅","start":"2026-08-19T11:34:53.497778+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:04.381818+08:00","text":"委員的建議我們會來努力，因為有的涉及和衛福部的跨部會合作，有的是偏鄉條例裡面可以再增加的資源，有的是人力的部分，我們都會想辦法來協助。","quality":0.79},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:35:04.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:07.075556+08:00","text":"謝謝，我想我就是提出問題，我們一步一步來努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員培瑜","start":"2026-08-19T11:35:07.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:08.775000+08:00","text":"謝謝次長、謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:35:10.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:11.680000+08:00","text":"非常感謝陳培瑜委員質詢，請次長回座。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-19T11:35:12.180000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-19T11:35:16.465714+08:00","text":"接下來有請高金素梅委員進行詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}