{"error":false,"id":["171148"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":171148,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/171148","日期":"2026-08-26","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-5-19-27","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第27次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":5,"會次":27,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第27次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2026-08-26T09:41:04+08:00","結束時間":"2026-08-26T09:55:23+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:19","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2075dd897ebcbff8a8d8a90559697ebee5414aaccb550c7fa7a1b0f67bfc903d39797466756a34355ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪毓祥","委員發言時間":"09:41:04 - 09:55:23","會議時間":"2026-08-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第27次全體委員會議（事由：邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、財政部首長、金融監督管理委員會首長、財團法人中小企業信用保證基金首長、國家科學及技術委員會首長就「中小微新企業發展困境、政策需求及政府資源配置與執行成效」進行報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":0.03096875,"end":0.79034375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":8.87346875,"end":12.36659375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":12.73784375,"end":13.665968750000001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":19.234718750000003,"end":19.25159375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":19.25159375,"end":20.19659375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":21.07409375,"end":24.887843750000002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":25.17471875,"end":40.85159375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":41.23971875,"end":42.50534375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":42.758468750000006,"end":49.15409375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":50.132843750000006,"end":61.05096875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":61.57409375,"end":70.85534375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":70.93971875,"end":79.46159375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":79.88346875,"end":80.37284375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":81.55409375,"end":83.93346875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":84.70971875000001,"end":87.71346875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":88.06784375000001,"end":92.96159375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":93.34971875000001,"end":93.87284375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":94.10909375,"end":97.55159375000001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":98.63159375000001,"end":113.09346875000001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":113.59971875000001,"end":114.30846875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":114.51096875,"end":116.75534375000001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":117.24471875,"end":117.70034375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":118.17284375000001,"end":123.03284375000001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":123.57284375,"end":125.53034375000001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":126.45846875000001,"end":135.46971875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":135.65534375000001,"end":136.75221875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":137.07284375,"end":143.31659375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":143.53596875,"end":146.01659375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":146.40471875,"end":148.36221875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":148.63221875000002,"end":150.53909375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":150.77534375000002,"end":151.90596875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":151.45034375,"end":155.77034375000002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":155.93909375,"end":169.91159375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":161.37284375000002,"end":164.91659375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":171.26159375,"end":185.58846875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":186.43221875,"end":190.66784375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":191.15721875,"end":196.77659375000002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":196.97909375,"end":203.03721875000002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":203.39159375000003,"end":211.98096875000002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":212.01471875000001,"end":212.03159375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":212.06534375,"end":216.16596875000002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":216.70596875,"end":225.75096875000003,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":226.05471875,"end":239.16659375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":239.53784375,"end":245.68034375000002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":246.33846875,"end":250.75971875000002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":251.19846875000002,"end":252.63284375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":252.78471875000002,"end":256.10909375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":256.90221875000003,"end":259.26471875000004,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":259.45034375,"end":263.11221875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":263.17971875,"end":264.85034375000004,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":265.03596875,"end":267.49971875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":267.78659375,"end":270.03096875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":270.35159375,"end":273.72659375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":273.91221875,"end":274.58721875000003,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":274.77284375,"end":276.12284375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":276.34221875000003,"end":277.30409375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":277.45596875,"end":279.90284375000005,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":279.98721875,"end":280.03784375000004,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":280.07159375000003,"end":282.67034375000003,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":282.87284375,"end":294.12846875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":292.28909375,"end":307.98284375000003,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":308.37096875000003,"end":317.83784375000005,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":318.04034375000003,"end":328.36784375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":328.55346875000004,"end":329.73471875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":330.02159375,"end":336.50159375000004,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":336.85596875000005,"end":340.43346875000003,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":341.64846875,"end":348.63471875000005,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":349.05659375000005,"end":353.42721875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":353.71409375,"end":355.36784375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":355.57034375,"end":358.72596875000005,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":359.36721875,"end":365.77971875000003,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":366.04971875,"end":367.61909375000005,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":368.37846875,"end":371.04471875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":371.58471875000004,"end":375.76971875000004,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":376.88346875,"end":378.28409375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":378.65534375000004,"end":389.87721875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":388.32471875000005,"end":388.34159375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":388.35846875000004,"end":391.00784375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":390.58596875,"end":391.39596875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":391.86846875000003,"end":399.05721875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":391.91909375,"end":394.01159375000003,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":399.14159375,"end":400.66034375000004,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":400.98096875000005,"end":408.35534375000003,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":408.54096875000005,"end":410.31284375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":410.39721875000004,"end":413.31659375000004,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":412.40534375000004,"end":414.75096875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":414.97034375000004,"end":419.66159375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":419.77971875000003,"end":421.88909375000003,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":422.12534375,"end":426.20909375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":426.20909375,"end":437.90346875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":438.05534375,"end":438.76409375000003,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":438.30846875000003,"end":441.10971875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":440.41784375000003,"end":443.20221875000004,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":442.02096875,"end":443.96159375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":443.28659375,"end":444.06284375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":444.29909375000005,"end":450.57659375000003,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":450.62721875000005,"end":461.14034375000006,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":461.14034375000006,"end":468.97034375000004,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":464.88659375000003,"end":464.98784375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":468.97034375000004,"end":470.40471875000003,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":470.40471875000003,"end":471.41721875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":471.11346875000004,"end":474.10034375000004,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":474.62346875000003,"end":478.77471875000003,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":477.84659375,"end":492.89909375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":479.87159375000005,"end":480.17534375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":492.89909375,"end":496.81409375000004,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":496.45971875000004,"end":500.76284375000006,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":500.76284375000006,"end":501.80909375000005,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":501.25221875000005,"end":504.74534375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":505.33596875,"end":516.38909375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":516.7097187500001,"end":517.06409375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":517.4353437500001,"end":518.78534375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":519.78096875,"end":521.5190937500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":522.2278437500001,"end":536.5209687500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":537.17909375,"end":543.54096875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":543.8615937500001,"end":544.63784375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":545.1609687499999,"end":548.3503437500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":549.12659375,"end":549.58221875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":549.58221875,"end":549.5990937500001,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":551.9109687499999,"end":553.04159375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":553.04159375,"end":565.15784375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":563.8247187500001,"end":570.79409375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":574.16909375,"end":578.10096875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":578.35409375,"end":584.41221875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":578.55659375,"end":597.8784687500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":590.21721875,"end":592.32659375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":598.33409375,"end":606.9740937500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":604.3078437500001,"end":604.94909375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":606.38346875,"end":606.92346875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":607.10909375,"end":607.1259687500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":607.1428437500001,"end":614.50034375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":614.8884687500001,"end":628.0678437500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":628.6922187499999,"end":635.50971875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":635.4084687500001,"end":635.7122187500001,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":635.7122187500001,"end":639.0703437500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":638.4965937500001,"end":639.4584687500001,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":639.30659375,"end":641.0109687500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":642.4115937500001,"end":642.81659375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":643.50846875,"end":649.12784375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":649.41471875,"end":659.7253437500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":660.48471875,"end":664.72034375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":665.6653437500001,"end":669.9853437500001,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":669.8503437500001,"end":675.84096875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":674.8115937500002,"end":675.6553437500002,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":675.95909375,"end":676.7353437500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":676.00971875,"end":686.13471875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":686.13471875,"end":686.97846875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":687.26534375,"end":697.6772187500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":698.31846875,"end":703.0265937500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":703.4484687500001,"end":712.56096875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":712.56096875,"end":718.29846875,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":716.50971875,"end":718.1297187499999,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":718.29846875,"end":718.6359687500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":718.6359687500001,"end":718.75409375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":718.75409375,"end":719.46284375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":719.46284375,"end":724.8290937500001,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":719.4797187500001,"end":719.73284375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":720.15471875,"end":720.67784375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":725.1328437500001,"end":728.03534375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":728.2547187499999,"end":732.4734687499999,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":732.4734687499999,"end":732.91221875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"何次長晉滄","start":732.91221875,"end":732.96284375,"speaker_score":0.965},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":732.96284375,"end":733.35096875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":734.2790937500001,"end":742.6997187500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":743.2903437500001,"end":755.60909375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳副處長醒非","start":744.99471875,"end":745.5009687500001,"speaker_score":0.924},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳副處長醒非","start":745.90596875,"end":746.8172187499999,"speaker_score":0.924},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":756.67221875,"end":757.51596875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":758.0390937500001,"end":758.64659375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":762.1397187500002,"end":762.29159375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":763.13534375,"end":766.7803437500002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":767.84346875,"end":784.5834687500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":784.7690937500001,"end":791.04659375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳副處長醒非","start":791.60346875,"end":806.45346875,"speaker_score":0.924},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":806.65596875,"end":809.59221875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":810.13221875,"end":814.80659375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":817.0847187500001,"end":817.59096875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":818.0972187500001,"end":825.1340937500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":825.57284375,"end":835.2590937500001,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":836.3728437500001,"end":842.44784375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":842.49846875,"end":844.13534375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":844.6753437500001,"end":846.83534375,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":847.3415937500001,"end":853.16346875,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":853.48409375,"end":857.3484687500002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"吳副處長醒非","start":854.0578437500001,"end":854.32784375,"speaker_score":0.924},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":857.5678437500001,"end":857.9053437500002,"speaker_score":0.938},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"洪委員毓祥","start":859.4409687500001,"end":860.23409375,"speaker_score":0.938}],"whisperx":[{"start":0,"end":1,"text":"發微資訊"},{"start":8.620000000000001,"end":11.58,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請經濟部"},{"start":11.58,"end":13.92,"text":"何次長 有請何次長"},{"start":18.96,"end":20.52,"text":"宏偉好"},{"start":21.080000000000002,"end":24.02,"text":"我想這個我看完你們的一個"},{"start":24.02,"end":26.52,"text":"報告 那我想就是"},{"start":26.52,"end":29.52,"text":"台灣目前根據你的報告 大概有"},{"start":29.52,"end":32.28,"text":"171.6萬家的"},{"start":32.28,"end":35.28,"text":"中小微企業 大概在我們全部企業的"},{"start":35.28,"end":37.519999999999996,"text":"98.9%"},{"start":37.519999999999996,"end":41.019999999999996,"text":"當然也提供將近920萬個工作"},{"start":41.019999999999996,"end":43.58,"text":"的一個機會 當然還有"},{"start":43.58,"end":46.84,"text":"1萬5000多家的一個新創的一個事業"},{"start":46.84,"end":49.379999999999995,"text":"那你們的報告的話寫了"},{"start":49.879999999999995,"end":52.64,"text":"中小微的新創企業5個困境"},{"start":52.64,"end":55.739999999999995,"text":"全球供應鏈的重組地緣政治"},{"start":55.739999999999995,"end":57.96,"text":"數位淨零轉型人才缺口"},{"start":57.980000000000004,"end":61.28,"text":"跟技術的一個快速的演進"},{"start":61.28,"end":63.480000000000004,"text":"那當然也根據你們的報告"},{"start":63.480000000000004,"end":65.48,"text":"以及我們找到的這個東西"},{"start":65.48,"end":68.48,"text":"中小企業營運觀測的調查"},{"start":68.48,"end":71.48,"text":"這個是你們中企署辦理的"},{"start":71.48,"end":73.48,"text":"另外一個是PWC之城"},{"start":73.48,"end":75.08,"text":"他所辦理這個"},{"start":75.08,"end":77.58,"text":"貨產署他的一個2022的一個"},{"start":77.58,"end":79.58,"text":"現況跟需求調查"},{"start":79.58,"end":80.58,"text":"那當然"},{"start":81.58,"end":84.08,"text":"講的東西大概就是租稅減免"},{"start":84.58,"end":87.58,"text":"金融支持 節能社隊的汰換補助"},{"start":88.2,"end":91.2,"text":"另外企業真正碰到就是經費不足"},{"start":91.2,"end":93.2,"text":"缺乏數位技能等等"},{"start":93.2,"end":95.2,"text":"但是你們的報告這樣寫"},{"start":95.2,"end":97.2,"text":"跟這個五大的困境"},{"start":98.2,"end":100.2,"text":"有些可能對得起來"},{"start":100.2,"end":102.2,"text":"比如說你的數位可能就對到"},{"start":102.2,"end":104.2,"text":"貨產署去的"},{"start":104.2,"end":106.2,"text":"就是在數發部裡頭的數位轉型"},{"start":106.2,"end":109.2,"text":"當然你們自己也有百工百業的數位轉型"},{"start":109.2,"end":111.2,"text":"所以人才缺口大概有"},{"start":111.2,"end":113.2,"text":"但是我的問題就是說"},{"start":113.2,"end":117.2,"text":"我們在這裡頭所碰到的問題"},{"start":117.82000000000001,"end":119.82000000000001,"text":"到底你們每一年"},{"start":119.82000000000001,"end":122.82000000000001,"text":"或者是什麼時候會做多少樣的一個調查"},{"start":123.82000000000001,"end":125.82000000000001,"text":"這個是不是可以請次長回答"},{"start":126.82000000000001,"end":128.82,"text":"好 謝謝委員"},{"start":128.82,"end":130.82,"text":"那其實中小企業"},{"start":130.82,"end":132.82,"text":"他所面臨的挑戰產銷人發財"},{"start":132.82,"end":134.82,"text":"各式各樣的這些經營管理"},{"start":134.82,"end":136.82,"text":"都會面臨"},{"start":136.82,"end":138.82,"text":"那我們其實每年"},{"start":138.82,"end":140.82,"text":"都會發布中小企業白皮書"},{"start":140.82,"end":142.82,"text":"在發布白皮書的時候"},{"start":142.82,"end":144.82,"text":"我們就會點出相關的"},{"start":144.82,"end":146.82,"text":"這個時代上"},{"start":147.44,"end":149.44,"text":"中小企業所面臨到的"},{"start":149.44,"end":151.44,"text":"需要解決的這個問題"},{"start":151.44,"end":153.44,"text":"所以你這左邊五個"},{"start":153.44,"end":155.44,"text":"在你的中小企業白皮書"},{"start":155.44,"end":157.44,"text":"有今年的嗎"},{"start":157.44,"end":159.44,"text":"我想這些都是"},{"start":159.44,"end":161.44,"text":"這幾年來不管是地緣政治"},{"start":161.44,"end":163.44,"text":"或是全國公園"},{"start":163.44,"end":165.44,"text":"都是在我們的發現裡面"},{"start":165.44,"end":167.44,"text":"我們看到這些問題"},{"start":171.44,"end":173.44,"text":"我現在的問題就是說"},{"start":173.44,"end":175.44,"text":"到底這個東西"},{"start":176.06,"end":178.06,"text":"我們政府每次做政策的計畫的時候"},{"start":178.06,"end":180.06,"text":"先花多一點資源"},{"start":180.06,"end":182.06,"text":"先去了解問題"},{"start":182.06,"end":184.06,"text":"問題的形成原因"},{"start":184.06,"end":186.06,"text":"第二個我也建議你們"},{"start":186.06,"end":188.06,"text":"就是定期面對面"},{"start":188.06,"end":190.06,"text":"去跟這些中小微的企業接觸"},{"start":192.06,"end":194.06,"text":"那我也希望你們把這個每一年"},{"start":194.06,"end":196.06,"text":"大概你要告訴我"},{"start":196.06,"end":198.06,"text":"比如說我們現在要審116的預算"},{"start":198.06,"end":200.06,"text":"所以大概你要接觸多少中小微企業"},{"start":200.06,"end":202.06,"text":"類型是什麼"},{"start":202.06,"end":204.06,"text":"然後你每一次弄完之後的"},{"start":204.68,"end":206.68,"text":"就是說他的問題歸納完再追蹤"},{"start":206.68,"end":208.68,"text":"當然還有一些你是委託"},{"start":208.68,"end":210.68,"text":"像MIC或是其他公園院"},{"start":210.68,"end":212.68,"text":"等等的調查"},{"start":212.68,"end":214.68,"text":"我就覺得現在要了解問題"},{"start":214.68,"end":216.68,"text":"那你的對策才有辦法下去"},{"start":216.68,"end":218.68,"text":"那就是延遲到下一個"},{"start":218.68,"end":220.68,"text":"因為當你把問題了解清楚之後"},{"start":220.68,"end":222.68,"text":"你才有辦法開藥方"},{"start":222.68,"end":224.68,"text":"那開藥方我現在的問題是"},{"start":224.68,"end":226.68,"text":"為什麼禮拜一辦公聽會"},{"start":226.68,"end":228.68,"text":"就是說我們現在有不同的企業"},{"start":228.68,"end":230.68,"text":"就像你們講的"},{"start":230.68,"end":232.68,"text":"微型企業小型中型新創"},{"start":233.3,"end":235.3,"text":"口號都喊得很好了"},{"start":235.3,"end":237.3,"text":"要健身要壯大要升級要拔肩"},{"start":237.3,"end":239.3,"text":"這都是形容詞"},{"start":239.3,"end":241.3,"text":"然後你剛剛又有這幾個問題"},{"start":241.3,"end":243.3,"text":"所以到底"},{"start":243.3,"end":245.3,"text":"你這個藥方政策會怎麼開"},{"start":245.3,"end":247.3,"text":"然後你的這個KPI"},{"start":247.3,"end":249.3,"text":"這些到底會怎麼設計"},{"start":249.3,"end":251.3,"text":"這個這個"},{"start":251.3,"end":253.3,"text":"不曉得市長"},{"start":253.3,"end":255.3,"text":"你們現在目前做到什麼地步"},{"start":255.3,"end":257.3,"text":"跟委員報告"},{"start":257.3,"end":259.3,"text":"其實我們在"},{"start":259.3,"end":261.3,"text":"這個114年"},{"start":261.3,"end":263.3,"text":"我們就推出中小微企業多元振興方案"},{"start":263.3,"end":265.3,"text":"那數位轉型淨零轉型或通路部件"},{"start":265.3,"end":267.3,"text":"其實這是整個方案的一個重點"},{"start":267.3,"end":269.3,"text":"那這一次總統提出來的就是說"},{"start":269.3,"end":271.3,"text":"其實跟委員看到的"},{"start":271.3,"end":273.3,"text":"也是很類似就是說"},{"start":273.3,"end":275.3,"text":"是不是要加大"},{"start":275.3,"end":277.3,"text":"而且要加深"},{"start":277.3,"end":279.3,"text":"這樣的一個輔導的一個內涵"},{"start":279.3,"end":281.3,"text":"所以我們把群聚共榮"},{"start":281.3,"end":283.3,"text":"包括商圈市場夜市"},{"start":283.3,"end":285.3,"text":"也都把它放進來"},{"start":285.3,"end":287.3,"text":"還有最重要就是新創拔肩"},{"start":287.3,"end":289.3,"text":"因為這個新創就是改變"},{"start":289.3,"end":291.3,"text":"就是改變未來的"},{"start":291.3,"end":293.3,"text":"我們台灣經濟很重要的一個"},{"start":293.3,"end":295.3,"text":"我希望你交一個這樣的報告"},{"start":295.3,"end":297.3,"text":"也可以找中氣署或是你們"},{"start":297.3,"end":299.3,"text":"各個有一起的就是說"},{"start":299.3,"end":301.3,"text":"你針對這個東西假設我們把它"},{"start":301.3,"end":303.3,"text":"稱之為舉證圖"},{"start":303.3,"end":305.3,"text":"那每一個東西配合你前面調查"},{"start":305.3,"end":307.3,"text":"它最主要的問題你想要解決"},{"start":307.3,"end":309.3,"text":"因為我們不可能每一個問題都解決"},{"start":309.3,"end":311.3,"text":"最重要的問題你開的這個對策"},{"start":311.3,"end":313.3,"text":"下去會是什麼"},{"start":313.3,"end":315.3,"text":"那這一個整個政策的"},{"start":315.3,"end":317.3,"text":"施政的藍圖才會出來"},{"start":317.3,"end":319.3,"text":"但我們現在都看不到"},{"start":319.3,"end":321.3,"text":"這也是我們為什麼一直在想說"},{"start":321.3,"end":323.3,"text":"到底我現在看到都是"},{"start":323.3,"end":325.3,"text":"一個一個政策"},{"start":325.3,"end":327.3,"text":"然後做下去之後我也不曉得那個成果會是什麼"},{"start":327.3,"end":329.3,"text":"這個老問題了"},{"start":329.3,"end":331.3,"text":"十幾二十年來都是這個樣子"},{"start":331.3,"end":333.3,"text":"所以我是希望你們有一種比較"},{"start":333.3,"end":335.3,"text":"創新的一個格局的做法"},{"start":335.3,"end":337.3,"text":"再來就是數字的部分"},{"start":337.3,"end":339.3,"text":"你們常常數字都多不起來"},{"start":341.3,"end":343.3,"text":"114年計畫啟動"},{"start":343.3,"end":345.3,"text":"行政院的新聞公告"},{"start":345.3,"end":347.3,"text":"就是說114年度投入116億"},{"start":349.3,"end":351.3,"text":"卓院長今年又公開說"},{"start":351.3,"end":353.3,"text":"114年投入103億"},{"start":353.3,"end":355.3,"text":"這中間就差13億"},{"start":355.3,"end":357.3,"text":"然後115年又說"},{"start":357.3,"end":359.3,"text":"投入109億"},{"start":359.3,"end":361.3,"text":"然後116年你們送進來"},{"start":361.3,"end":363.3,"text":"運算正式報告"},{"start":363.3,"end":365.3,"text":"告訴我們每年是250億的資源"},{"start":365.3,"end":367.3,"text":"那行政院又說"},{"start":367.3,"end":369.3,"text":"未來8年"},{"start":369.3,"end":371.3,"text":"要加碼投入1000億"},{"start":371.3,"end":373.3,"text":"所以114年"},{"start":373.3,"end":375.3,"text":"到底你們是投入116還是113億"},{"start":377.3,"end":379.3,"text":"跟我們報告"},{"start":379.3,"end":381.3,"text":"我們是從這個"},{"start":381.3,"end":383.3,"text":"現有比方說"},{"start":383.3,"end":385.3,"text":"我們各部會投入中小企業的預算"},{"start":385.3,"end":387.3,"text":"其實每年大概都有一百多億"},{"start":387.3,"end":389.3,"text":"這不是你經濟部的"},{"start":389.3,"end":391.3,"text":"還是整個行政院"},{"start":391.3,"end":393.3,"text":"其實應該是大部分"},{"start":393.3,"end":395.3,"text":"都是經濟部"},{"start":395.3,"end":397.3,"text":"但是我們也有把各部會"},{"start":397.3,"end":399.3,"text":"用在中小企業身上的這些經費"},{"start":399.3,"end":401.3,"text":"我們也把它統計進來"},{"start":401.3,"end":403.3,"text":"那之所以116年開始"},{"start":403.3,"end":405.3,"text":"我們會說250億"},{"start":405.3,"end":407.3,"text":"是因為總統又加碼"},{"start":407.3,"end":409.3,"text":"8年這個1000億"},{"start":409.3,"end":411.3,"text":"所以我們就是把"},{"start":411.3,"end":413.3,"text":"8年250億"},{"start":413.3,"end":415.3,"text":"是2000億"},{"start":415.3,"end":417.3,"text":"所以就是現有100多億"},{"start":417.3,"end":419.3,"text":"再加上總統未來給的每年"},{"start":419.3,"end":421.3,"text":"大概100多億這樣加起來的話"},{"start":421.3,"end":423.3,"text":"大概每年從116年"},{"start":423.3,"end":425.3,"text":"開始大概有250億"},{"start":425.3,"end":427.3,"text":"左右的一個預算"},{"start":427.3,"end":429.3,"text":"所以你這個是加碼1000億是新增"},{"start":429.3,"end":431.3,"text":"所以你既有預算"},{"start":431.3,"end":433.3,"text":"假設我們抓103億"},{"start":433.3,"end":435.3,"text":"然後再加上一年"},{"start":435.3,"end":437.3,"text":"大概是差不多125"},{"start":437.3,"end":439.3,"text":"左右"},{"start":439.3,"end":441.3,"text":"所以加起來是200多億"},{"start":441.3,"end":443.3,"text":"大概250億左右"},{"start":443.3,"end":445.3,"text":"所以把這個東西的"},{"start":445.3,"end":447.3,"text":"預算金額寫清楚"},{"start":447.3,"end":449.3,"text":"然後這250億是包含"},{"start":449.3,"end":451.3,"text":"哪些部會"},{"start":451.3,"end":453.3,"text":"然後你的公務預算、基金支出"},{"start":453.3,"end":455.3,"text":"租稅優惠、信保、國發金"},{"start":455.3,"end":457.3,"text":"投資都算進去"},{"start":457.3,"end":459.3,"text":"那250億純粹就是"},{"start":459.3,"end":461.3,"text":"產業補助跟推動的錢而已"},{"start":461.3,"end":463.3,"text":"是全部都會有到時候我們會有一個方案"},{"start":463.3,"end":465.3,"text":"到時候我們再提供給委員"},{"start":465.3,"end":467.3,"text":"所以還是把基金支出、國發、"},{"start":467.3,"end":469.3,"text":"基金的投資、信保"},{"start":469.3,"end":471.3,"text":"這些都放進去"},{"start":471.3,"end":473.3,"text":"所以真正你產業補助可能不到一年250億"},{"start":473.3,"end":475.3,"text":"應該都是在"},{"start":475.3,"end":477.3,"text":"整個裡面"},{"start":477.3,"end":479.3,"text":"就是說250億"},{"start":479.3,"end":481.3,"text":"那你要給我細項的報告"},{"start":481.3,"end":483.3,"text":"因為我們業界聽到的是"},{"start":483.3,"end":485.3,"text":"250億是用在產業的補助、研發"},{"start":485.3,"end":487.3,"text":"跟創新、跟我的進行轉型"},{"start":487.3,"end":489.3,"text":"不包含這些"},{"start":489.3,"end":491.3,"text":"國發、基金、投資、銀行、融資"},{"start":491.3,"end":493.3,"text":"這個你很難算"},{"start":493.3,"end":495.3,"text":"我們到時候再提供"},{"start":495.3,"end":497.3,"text":"一些資料給"},{"start":497.3,"end":499.3,"text":"我希望你們是250億新增的產業補助"},{"start":499.3,"end":501.3,"text":"跟研發這些"},{"start":501.3,"end":503.3,"text":"不要把這個"},{"start":503.3,"end":505.3,"text":"籠統全部都加進去"},{"start":505.3,"end":507.3,"text":"我們中小企業想像的是"},{"start":507.3,"end":509.3,"text":"250億,再加上是50億"},{"start":509.3,"end":511.3,"text":"雖然兩百億都是國發、基金、投資"},{"start":511.3,"end":513.3,"text":"信保、融資"},{"start":513.3,"end":515.3,"text":"然後財政部的公股這個"},{"start":515.3,"end":517.3,"text":"融資這不行"},{"start":517.3,"end":519.3,"text":"好,再來的話"},{"start":519.3,"end":521.3,"text":"你們的績效也是很奇怪"},{"start":521.3,"end":523.3,"text":"再讓我花一點時間"},{"start":523.3,"end":525.3,"text":"因為我覺得這個你們的"},{"start":525.3,"end":527.3,"text":"遷有到你們116的預算的審查"},{"start":527.3,"end":529.3,"text":"就是說你現在114年"},{"start":529.3,"end":531.3,"text":"我看你們的報告的話"},{"start":531.3,"end":533.3,"text":"送進來是預計輔導20萬3千5百家"},{"start":533.3,"end":535.3,"text":"創造產值689億"},{"start":537.3,"end":539.3,"text":"然後行政院114年公佈結果"},{"start":539.3,"end":541.3,"text":"同樣加速沒變"},{"start":541.3,"end":543.3,"text":"20萬3千5百家"},{"start":543.3,"end":545.3,"text":"產值"},{"start":545.3,"end":547.3,"text":"從689億變成是"},{"start":547.3,"end":549.3,"text":"91億"},{"start":549.3,"end":551.3,"text":"為何"},{"start":551.3,"end":553.3,"text":"是前面誤值"},{"start":553.3,"end":555.3,"text":"是,根本報告就是說"},{"start":555.3,"end":557.3,"text":"其實我們都是在"},{"start":557.3,"end":559.3,"text":"不斷的在"},{"start":559.3,"end":561.3,"text":"做調查"},{"start":561.3,"end":563.3,"text":"調查會隨著調查時間"},{"start":563.3,"end":565.3,"text":"不是,你碰碰想著"},{"start":565.3,"end":567.3,"text":"你本來預估是689億"},{"start":567.3,"end":569.3,"text":"那你的目標怎麼"},{"start":569.3,"end":571.3,"text":"你修整成91億"},{"start":573.3,"end":575.3,"text":"這個資料可能"},{"start":575.3,"end":577.3,"text":"我們再檢視一下"},{"start":577.3,"end":579.3,"text":"因為"},{"start":579.3,"end":581.3,"text":"我說我都幫你們看數字"},{"start":581.3,"end":583.3,"text":"因為你這個東西"},{"start":583.3,"end":585.3,"text":"要檢視一下,然後你再把正確的報告給我"},{"start":585.3,"end":587.3,"text":"因為不然這樣子我們都覺得說"},{"start":587.3,"end":589.3,"text":"689億變91億的目標"},{"start":589.3,"end":591.3,"text":"這是什麼東西"},{"start":591.3,"end":593.3,"text":"然後第二個,我想次長這麼多年"},{"start":593.3,"end":595.3,"text":"很清楚,產值跟商機不同"},{"start":595.3,"end":597.3,"text":"商機都是碰碰的"},{"start":597.3,"end":599.3,"text":"產值比較清楚"},{"start":599.3,"end":601.3,"text":"所以你那個東西要去把它分清楚"},{"start":601.3,"end":603.3,"text":"不要把你的商機當成是KPI"},{"start":603.3,"end":605.3,"text":"這個要分清楚"},{"start":605.3,"end":607.3,"text":"然後你們的成果"},{"start":607.3,"end":609.3,"text":"我認為還是看得不是很清楚"},{"start":609.3,"end":611.3,"text":"因為你們的成果大概都還是數字"},{"start":611.3,"end":613.3,"text":"這個"},{"start":613.3,"end":615.3,"text":"我再找你們研究"},{"start":615.3,"end":617.3,"text":"就是常常我們在講要求OKR"},{"start":617.3,"end":619.3,"text":"我要的是"},{"start":619.3,"end":621.3,"text":"不是output"},{"start":621.3,"end":623.3,"text":"輔導多少家,拿到多少錢"},{"start":623.3,"end":625.3,"text":"那個對我都不重要"},{"start":625.3,"end":627.3,"text":"重要的是他的outcome跟impact"},{"start":627.3,"end":629.3,"text":"我到底是幫助他"},{"start":629.3,"end":631.3,"text":"解決的是什麼問題"},{"start":631.3,"end":633.3,"text":"那回到你最前面調查的"},{"start":633.3,"end":635.3,"text":"他的一個缺口"},{"start":635.3,"end":637.3,"text":"那真正才會感覺"},{"start":637.3,"end":639.3,"text":"感受到"},{"start":639.3,"end":641.3,"text":"然後最後這個就是"},{"start":643.3,"end":645.3,"text":"昨天禮拜一個公聽"},{"start":645.3,"end":647.3,"text":"我也是人家在講,然後我們也一直在講"},{"start":647.3,"end":649.3,"text":"我記得國科會也有給"},{"start":649.3,"end":651.3,"text":"訴發部前還是什麼"},{"start":651.3,"end":653.3,"text":"去幫你們經濟部做"},{"start":653.3,"end":655.3,"text":"整個中小企業"},{"start":655.3,"end":657.3,"text":"或者是整個經濟部的"},{"start":657.3,"end":659.3,"text":"我們企業申請資源的一戰士"},{"start":659.3,"end":661.3,"text":"我們才講"},{"start":661.3,"end":663.3,"text":"諮詢入口而已"},{"start":663.3,"end":665.3,"text":"這個進度是做到哪裡去了"},{"start":665.3,"end":667.3,"text":"這個可能要"},{"start":667.3,"end":669.3,"text":"我們再跟訴發部"},{"start":669.3,"end":671.3,"text":"來了解一下"},{"start":671.3,"end":673.3,"text":"因為是本來經濟部中青署要做的"},{"start":673.3,"end":675.3,"text":"中青署不想做"},{"start":675.3,"end":677.3,"text":"不是啦,是因為"},{"start":677.3,"end":679.3,"text":"主改啦"},{"start":679.3,"end":681.3,"text":"主改成立了訴發部,所以我們就把業務"},{"start":681.3,"end":683.3,"text":"做的時候就把這項業務就移播到訴發部"},{"start":683.3,"end":685.3,"text":"所以我們再跟訴發部"},{"start":685.3,"end":687.3,"text":"再了解一下"},{"start":687.3,"end":689.3,"text":"我覺得這樣子真的不好,如果可以就拿回來自己做也行"},{"start":689.3,"end":691.3,"text":"就是說"},{"start":691.3,"end":693.3,"text":"因為這個是申請你們的"},{"start":693.3,"end":695.3,"text":"輔助,完全已經過去兩年"},{"start":695.3,"end":697.3,"text":"多三年,然後還沒有看到成果"},{"start":697.3,"end":699.3,"text":"這個大家都在罵"},{"start":699.3,"end":701.3,"text":"我昨天去"},{"start":701.3,"end":703.3,"text":"廠商那邊也是"},{"start":703.3,"end":705.3,"text":"我不知道要哪裡生產"},{"start":705.3,"end":707.3,"text":"然後到底我是不適用"},{"start":707.3,"end":709.3,"text":"有沒有超過期限"},{"start":709.3,"end":711.3,"text":"我可以申請多少,我要找誰"},{"start":711.3,"end":713.3,"text":"完全不知道"},{"start":713.3,"end":715.3,"text":"跟我們報告,我們在上個禮拜成立一個Line At"},{"start":715.3,"end":717.3,"text":"的一個"},{"start":717.3,"end":719.3,"text":"因為你們的網站何其多"},{"start":719.3,"end":721.3,"text":"然後資訊一推"},{"start":721.3,"end":723.3,"text":"這個Line At有一個好處,就是我們有新的政策"},{"start":723.3,"end":725.3,"text":"我們就會推播出去,而且"},{"start":725.3,"end":727.3,"text":"目前Line At的網站上面"},{"start":727.3,"end":729.3,"text":"我們已經有把經濟部還有各部會"},{"start":729.3,"end":731.3,"text":"提供給中小企業資源都已經整理在上面"},{"start":731.3,"end":733.3,"text":"那個不夠智慧"},{"start":733.3,"end":735.3,"text":"現在都AI的時代"},{"start":735.3,"end":737.3,"text":"那個在跟當初國歌會"},{"start":737.3,"end":739.3,"text":"給你們,給速發部要去幫你們"},{"start":739.3,"end":741.3,"text":"經濟部做,那完全不符合"},{"start":741.3,"end":743.3,"text":"國歌會的要求"},{"start":743.3,"end":745.3,"text":"那個還是一般的Portal"},{"start":745.3,"end":747.3,"text":"這個在定期請中企署再去"},{"start":747.3,"end":749.3,"text":"檢討一下好不好,就看一下"},{"start":749.3,"end":751.3,"text":"速發部的狀況"},{"start":751.3,"end":753.3,"text":"最後只在耽誤30秒"},{"start":753.3,"end":755.3,"text":"部長可以下起來,請這個國歌會"},{"start":755.3,"end":757.3,"text":"30秒就好"},{"start":757.3,"end":759.3,"text":"國歌會"},{"start":761.3,"end":763.3,"text":"對"},{"start":763.3,"end":765.3,"text":"我看完你的報告,我只有30秒"},{"start":765.3,"end":767.3,"text":"30秒給你建議"},{"start":767.3,"end":769.3,"text":"國歌會跟國發會一樣"},{"start":769.3,"end":771.3,"text":"國發會也是"},{"start":771.3,"end":773.3,"text":"地方創生或者是這些新創的"},{"start":773.3,"end":775.3,"text":"補助,很多都是跟經濟部"},{"start":775.3,"end":777.3,"text":"我覺得是重疊,這我在國發會"},{"start":777.3,"end":779.3,"text":"已經念過了,國歌會這邊"},{"start":779.3,"end":781.3,"text":"也是,你的報告裡頭有加速器"},{"start":781.3,"end":783.3,"text":"又有新創培育"},{"start":783.3,"end":785.3,"text":"又有人才訓練,到底"},{"start":785.3,"end":787.3,"text":"你們跟這些經濟部"},{"start":787.3,"end":789.3,"text":"有什麼差別,資源都是"},{"start":789.3,"end":791.3,"text":"重複浪費,Return等"},{"start":791.3,"end":793.3,"text":"我想跟"},{"start":793.3,"end":795.3,"text":"委員報告"},{"start":795.3,"end":797.3,"text":"在國發會有一個"},{"start":797.3,"end":799.3,"text":"三個部會的聯合系統"},{"start":799.3,"end":801.3,"text":"基本上我們國歌會的"},{"start":801.3,"end":803.3,"text":"定位是在比較Early Stage"},{"start":803.3,"end":805.3,"text":"本來創業的路程就是"},{"start":805.3,"end":807.3,"text":"比較長遠"},{"start":807.3,"end":809.3,"text":"中小企業沒有Early Stage"},{"start":809.3,"end":811.3,"text":"國發會新創"},{"start":811.3,"end":813.3,"text":"不是Early Stage,我們的Angel"},{"start":813.3,"end":815.3,"text":"放的不是Early Stage"},{"start":817.3,"end":819.3,"text":"我覺得"},{"start":819.3,"end":821.3,"text":"你們兩個會去好好做一下"},{"start":821.3,"end":823.3,"text":"我很討厭看到"},{"start":823.3,"end":825.3,"text":"這種資源重複的東西"},{"start":825.3,"end":827.3,"text":"審計部也念,預算中心"},{"start":827.3,"end":829.3,"text":"也念,然後我們"},{"start":829.3,"end":831.3,"text":"今天是中小園,你們那個產學合作"},{"start":831.3,"end":833.3,"text":"科學園區的產學合作"},{"start":833.3,"end":835.3,"text":"裡面根本不是中小圍"},{"start":835.3,"end":837.3,"text":"所以我覺得你這個東西"},{"start":837.3,"end":839.3,"text":"不太對,我只是說你回去"},{"start":839.3,"end":841.3,"text":"再把你們的這個施政的策略"},{"start":841.3,"end":843.3,"text":"在這一塊,如果沒有"},{"start":843.3,"end":845.3,"text":"你就說沒有,如果你真的"},{"start":845.3,"end":847.3,"text":"有中小圍的"},{"start":847.3,"end":849.3,"text":"那個才是你們國歌會看看"},{"start":849.3,"end":851.3,"text":"什麼東西在這個產學合作"},{"start":851.3,"end":853.3,"text":"是中小圍可以做的"},{"start":853.3,"end":855.3,"text":"這個是我給你們的建議"},{"start":855.3,"end":857.3,"text":"看完你們的報告,謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:41:12.866667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:41:16.165000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請經濟部何次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T09:41:16.457500+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:41:17.627500+08:00","text":"有請何次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:41:17.627500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:41:25.080000+08:00","text":"洪委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:41:25.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:41:50.589231+08:00","text":"何次長，我有看完你們的報告，根據你們的報告，臺灣大概有171.6萬家中小微企業，占全部企業的98.9%，提供將近920萬個工作機會，當然，還有一萬五千多家新創事業。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:41:51.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:42:04.980000+08:00","text":"報告中又提到中小微新創企業的五個困境，包括全球供應鏈重組、地緣政治、數位與淨零轉型、人才缺口和技術快速演進。","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:42:06.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:43:06.643529+08:00","text":"根據你們的報告，以及我們找到的「中小企業營運觀測調查」，這是中企署辦理的；另外一個是資誠（PwC）協同數產署辦理的「2022臺灣中小企業數位轉型現況與需求調查」，講的內容大概就是租稅減免、金融支持、節能設備的汰換補助等，另外，企業真正碰到的就是經費不足、缺乏數位技能等等，這些跟你們報告裡寫的五大困境，有些可能對得起來，比如數位部分，可能就對到數發部數產署的數位轉型，當然，你們自己也有百工百業的數位轉型；另外，人才缺口也大概有，但我的問題是，在這裡所碰到的所有問題，到底你們每年或什麼時候會做多少樣的調查？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:43:07.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:43:09.653333+08:00","text":"這部分是不是請次長回答？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:43:10.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:43:12.420000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:43:13.677143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:43:35.217778+08:00","text":"中小企業所面臨的挑戰，產銷人發財各式各樣的經營管理都會面臨，其實我們每年都會發布中小企業白皮書，在發布白皮書的時候，就會點出這個時代中小企業所面臨到的相關需要解決的問題，我想……","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:43:35.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:43:41.040000+08:00","text":"所以圖片上左邊這五個在你們今年的中小企業白皮書裡有嗎？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:43:42.106667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:43:45.440000+08:00","text":"是，這些都是這幾年來，不管是地緣政治或全球供應鏈……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:43:45.440000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:43:47.440000+08:00","text":"我是說有在今年的白皮書裡嗎？","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:43:47.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:43:47.640000+08:00","text":"都是在……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:43:47.640000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:43:48.640000+08:00","text":"就是這五個。","quality":0},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:43:47.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:43:51.190000+08:00","text":"都在我們的發現裡面，我們都有看到這些問題。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:43:55.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:44:07.774286+08:00","text":"好，我現在的問題是，第一，政府每次在做政策計畫的時候，應該先花多一點資源去了解問題形成的原因。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:44:08.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:44:25.660000+08:00","text":"第二，建議政府定期面對面跟這些中小微企業接觸，同時我也希望你們可以把每年的大概情形告訴我們，比如現在要審116年的預算，你們大概要接觸多少中小微企業、類型是什麼？","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:44:26.605455+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:44:40.498182+08:00","text":"每次調查完之後要把問題歸納，然後追蹤，當然，有一些可以委託MIC或工研院等去調查，我是覺得要先了解問題，這樣你的對策才有辦法下去。","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:44:40.902222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:44:50.480000+08:00","text":"這就延續到下個問題，就是當你把問題了解清楚之後，才有辦法開藥方；開完藥方後，我現在的問題是，為什麼我禮拜一辦公聽會？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:44:51.449231+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:44:56.480000+08:00","text":"譬如現在有不同的企業，就像你們講的，有微型企業、小型、中型，還有新創。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:44:57.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:45:02.966667+08:00","text":"口號都喊得很好啦，要健身、要壯大、要升級、要拔尖，這些都是形容詞。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:45:03.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:45:09.118182+08:00","text":"然後你剛剛又說有這幾個問題，所以你的藥方政策到底會怎麼開？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:45:09.744444+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:45:13.077778+08:00","text":"你的KPI這些到底會怎麼設計？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:45:15.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:45:19.133333+08:00","text":"次長，不曉得你們目前做到什麼地步了？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:45:19.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:45:31.146154+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實我們在114年就推出中小微企業多元振興方案，數位轉型、淨零轉型或通路布建其實是整個方案的重點。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:45:31.453846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:45:43.133333+08:00","text":"這次總統提出來的，其實跟委員看到的很類似，亦即是不是要加大，而且要加深輔導的內涵？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:45:43.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:45:57.133333+08:00","text":"所以我們把群聚共榮，包括商圈、市場、夜市都放進來，最重要的就是新創拔尖，因為新創就是改變未來臺灣經濟很重要的一個……","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:45:57.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:46:02.188889+08:00","text":"我希望你交一個這樣的報告，可以找中企署，或是你們一起做。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:46:03.453846+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:46:31.200000+08:00","text":"針對這個東西，假設我們把它稱之為矩陣圖，每一個東西配合你前面調查到的最主要的問題，我們想要解決的，因為我們不可能就每一個問題都去解決嘛，所以針對最重要的問題，你要說明開出這個對策下去後會是什麼，這一整個政策的施政藍圖才會出來，但我們現在都看不到，這也是我們為什麼一直在講到底……我現在看到的都是一個、一個的政策，見樹不見林，做下去之後也不曉得那個成果會是什麼。","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:46:31.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:46:39.100000+08:00","text":"這是老問題了，十幾、二十年來都是這個樣子，所以我希望你們用比較創新的格局與做法。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:46:39.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:46:58.966667+08:00","text":"再來就是數字的部分，你們的數字常常都兜不起來，114年計畫啟動，行政院的新聞公告指出，114年度投入116億，卓院長今年又公開說114年投入103億，這中間就差了13億。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:46:59.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:47:19.100000+08:00","text":"然後115年又說投入109億，116年你們送進來的預算正式報告告訴我們，每年有250億的資源，但行政院又說未來8年要加碼投入1,000億，所以114年你們到底是投入116億還是103億？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:47:21.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:47:31.133333+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們是從現有的統計，比方各部會投入中小企業的預算，其實每年大概有一百多億，再加上……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:47:31.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:47:35.014286+08:00","text":"這是你經濟部的還是整個行政院的？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:47:36.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:47:38.900000+08:00","text":"大部分應該都是經濟部的。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:47:38.900000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:47:39.900000+08:00","text":"都在你們經濟部啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:47:39.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:47:55.014286+08:00","text":"但是我們也有把各部會用在中小企業身上的這些經費統計進來，我們之所以會說116年開始會有250億，是因為總統又加碼8年1,000億，所以我們就是把現有的……","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:47:55.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:47:58.300000+08:00","text":"8年250億是2,000億欸！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:00.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:48:11.014286+08:00","text":"現有的一百多億再加上總統未來每年大概會給一百多億，這樣加起來，從116年開始每年大概會有250億左右的預算。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:11.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:48:13.133333+08:00","text":"所以這個加碼1,000億是新增的？對。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:13.871429+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:48:25.050000+08:00","text":"你的既有預算假設我們抓103億，然後再加上一年差不多是125億左右，所以加起來一年是二百多億？","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:25.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:48:26.900000+08:00","text":"大概250億左右。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:26.900000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:48:27.900000+08:00","text":"250億左右？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:27.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:48:34.800000+08:00","text":"要把這個東西的預算金額寫清楚，這250億是包含哪些部會？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:35.633333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:48:45.118182+08:00","text":"是把你的公務預算、基金支出、租稅優惠、信保、國發基金投資都算進去，還是這250億純粹就是產業補助跟推動的錢而已？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:45.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:48:49.118182+08:00","text":"是全部都會有，到時候我們會有一個方案，會再提供給委員。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:49.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:48:54.966667+08:00","text":"所以是把基金支出、國發基金的投資、信保這些都放進去？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:54.966667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:48:55.966667+08:00","text":"對，都放在這裡面。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:55.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:48:57.175000+08:00","text":"所以你真正給產業的補助一年根本不到250億嘛！","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:48:57.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:49:01.800000+08:00","text":"應該都是在整個裡面啦，亦即250億是……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:49:03.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:49:05.100000+08:00","text":"你要給我細項的報告，每一個都要拆解出來。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:49:05.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:49:16.966667+08:00","text":"因為我們業界聽到的是，250億是用在產業的補助、研發、創新跟淨零轉型上，不包含國發基金的投資、銀行融資這些，這個你很難算欸！","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:49:17.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:49:20.900000+08:00","text":"我們到時候再提供一些資料給委員參考。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:49:21.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:49:24.100000+08:00","text":"我希望你們的250億是新增給產業的補助跟研發啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:49:24.100000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:49:25.300000+08:00","text":"好不好？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:49:25.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:49:39.700000+08:00","text":"不要籠統地全部都加進去，不然我們中小企業想像的有250億，結果拿到的只有50億，剩下的200億都是國發基金投資、信保融資，還有財政部的公股融資，對不對？","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:49:40.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:49:40.900000+08:00","text":"這樣不行啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:49:41.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:49:51.118182+08:00","text":"再來，你們的績效也很奇怪，再讓我花一點時間，因為我覺得這會牽涉到你們116年的預算審查。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:49:52.442857+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:50:14.300000+08:00","text":"現在114年……我看你們送進來的報告，預計輔導20萬3,500家，創造產值689億，然後行政院114年公布的結果，家數沒變，同樣是20萬3,500家，但產值卻從689億變成是91億，為何？","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:50:15.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:50:16.500000+08:00","text":"是前面誤植嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:50:18.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:50:27.077778+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實我們都是不斷地在做調查，會隨著調查時間點不一樣……","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:50:27.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:50:34.900000+08:00","text":"不是，你們吹牛吹太多了，你們本來預估是689億，怎麼你們的目標又修整成91億？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:50:37.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:50:42.300000+08:00","text":"這個資料我們再檢視一下好了，因為委員講的資料，我們沒有……","quality":0.52},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:50:43.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:50:54.966667+08:00","text":"我說我就幫你們看數字，這個東西要檢視一下，然後你再把正確的報告給我，不然我們都會覺得從689億變成91億的目標，這是什麼東西？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:50:54.966667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:50:55.966667+08:00","text":"應該不會這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:50:55.607692+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:51:08.966667+08:00","text":"第二個，我想次長這麼多年了，應該很清楚，產值跟商機不同，商機都是吹牛的，產值才是實在的，所以要把這個東西分清楚，不要把你的商機當成是KPI，這個要分清楚的。","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:51:08.966667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:51:09.966667+08:00","text":"好，我們把它分類。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:51:09.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:51:42.633333+08:00","text":"然後你們的成果，我認為還是看得不是很清楚，因為你們的成果大概都還是數字，我再找你們研究，我們常常要求要OKR，但我要的不是output，輔導多少家怎麼樣、拿到多少錢，那個對我都不重要，重要的是他的outcome跟impact，我到底是幫助他解決了什麼問題，要回到你最前面調查的他的缺口，那才會真正感受到，好不好？好。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:51:43.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:52:09.118182+08:00","text":"最後，禮拜一的公聽會也有人講到，然後你也一直在講，我記得國科會也有給數發部還是什麼去幫你們經濟部做整個中小企業或是整個經濟部企業申請資源的一站式，我們才講資訊入口而已，這個進度是做到哪裡了？","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:52:09.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:52:14.900000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們要再跟數發部來了解一下。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:52:14.900000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:52:15.900000+08:00","text":"你知道為什麼嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:52:15.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:52:18.966667+08:00","text":"因為這本來是經濟部中企署要做的，中企署不想做，就丟給……","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:52:19.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:52:19.966667+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:52:20.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:52:30.900000+08:00","text":"是因為組改，組改成立了數發部，所以在業務移撥的時候，我們就把這項業務移撥到數發部，所以我們再跟數發部了解一下。","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:52:31.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:52:46.966667+08:00","text":"我覺得這樣子真的不好，如果可以，就拿回來自己做也行，因為這個是申請你們的補助，它已經過去兩年多、三年了，然後還沒有看到成果，這個大家都在罵，我昨天去廠商那邊也是啊！","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:52:47.522222+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:52:56.900000+08:00","text":"他們就說不知道要去哪裡申請、到底他適不適用、有沒有超過期限、可以申請多少、要找誰等等，完全不知道！","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:52:57.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:52:59.300000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們在上個禮拜成立一個LINE@的群組……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:53:01.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:53:04.633333+08:00","text":"我不要LINE@，因為你們的網站何其多，然後資訊一堆……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T09:53:05.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:53:15.182353+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個LINE@有一個好處，就是我們有新的政策，我們就會推播出去，而且目前LINE@的網站上面已經有把經濟部及各部會提供給中小企業的資源都整理在上面了。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:53:15.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:53:32.390909+08:00","text":"那個不夠智慧，現在都是AI時代了，那個跟當初國科會給數發部要去幫經濟部做的相比，完全不符合國科會的要求，那個還是一般的portal而已，這個再定期請中企署去檢討一下好不好？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:53:32.754545+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:53:34.966667+08:00","text":"去看一下數發部的狀況。好。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:53:35.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:53:40.633333+08:00","text":"最後，我只再耽誤30秒就好，次長可以下台，請國科會，30秒就好。","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:53:41.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:54:02.100000+08:00","text":"國科會，我看完你的報告，我只有30秒給你建議，國科會跟國發會一樣，國發會也是，不論是地方創生或是新創的補助，我覺得很多都跟經濟部的重疊，這我在國發會已經唸過了。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:54:02.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:54:12.188889+08:00","text":"國科會這邊也是，你的報告裡頭有加速器，有新創培育，又有人才訓練，到底你們這些跟經濟部的有什麼差別？","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:54:12.411111+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:54:14.390909+08:00","text":"資源都是重複浪費、redundant。","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"吳副處長醒非","start":"2026-08-26T09:54:16.633333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:54:30.800000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，在國發會有一個三個部會的聯合系統，基本上國科會的定位是在比較early stage，本來創業的路程就是比較長遠，一般……","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:54:31.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:54:33.175000+08:00","text":"中小企業署沒有early stage的？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:54:33.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:54:39.157143+08:00","text":"國發會新創不是early stage，我們的angel放的不是early stage？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:54:41.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:54:58.855556+08:00","text":"我覺得你們兩個會去好好做一下sync，我很討厭看到這種資源重複的東西，審計部也唸，預算中心也唸，然後我們今天討論的是中小微，但你們科學園區的產學合作裡面根本不是中小微啊！","quality":0.835},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:54:59.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:55:17.050000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得你這個東西不太對啦，我只是說你回去再把你們的施政策略……在這一塊如果沒有你就說沒有；如果你真的有中小微的，那個才是你們國科會看看有什麼東西在產學合作是中小微可以做的，好不好？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"吳副處長醒非","start":"2026-08-26T09:55:17.050000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:55:18.050000+08:00","text":"好，這個我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員毓祥","start":"2026-08-26T09:55:17.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T09:55:21.077778+08:00","text":"這個是看完你們的報告，我給你們的建議。謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T09:55:21.577778+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:55:24.149206+08:00","text":"謝謝副處長，謝謝召委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席（洪委員毓祥）","start":"2026-08-26T09:55:24.449206+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T09:55:28.163492+08:00","text":"接下來我們請鍾佳濱委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":354,"blocks":[["洪委員毓祥：（9時41分）謝謝主席，有請經濟部何次長。"],["主席：有請何次長。"],["何次長晉滄：洪委員好。"],["洪委員毓祥：何次長，我有看完你們的報告，根據你們的報告，臺灣大概有171.6萬家中小微企業，占全部企業的98.9%，提供將近920萬個工作機會，當然，還有一萬五千多家新創事業。報告中又提到中小微新創企業的五個困境，包括全球供應鏈重組、地緣政治、數位與淨零轉型、人才缺口和技術快速演進。根據你們的報告，以及我們找到的「中小企業營運觀測調查」，這是中企署辦理的；另外一個是資誠（PwC）協同數產署辦理的「2022臺灣中小企業數位轉型現況與需求調查」，講的內容大概就是租稅減免、金融支持、節能設備的汰換補助等，另外，企業真正碰到的就是經費不足、缺乏數位技能等等，這些跟你們報告裡寫的五大困境，有些可能對得起來，比如數位部分，可能就對到數發部數產署的數位轉型，當然，你們自己也有百工百業的數位轉型；另外，人才缺口也大概有，但我的問題是，在這裡所碰到的所有問題，到底你們每年或什麼時候會做多少樣的調查？這部分是不是請次長回答？"],["何次長晉滄：好，謝謝委員。中小企業所面臨的挑戰，產銷人發財各式各樣的經營管理都會面臨，其實我們每年都會發布中小企業白皮書，在發布白皮書的時候，就會點出這個時代中小企業所面臨到的相關需要解決的問題，我想……"],["洪委員毓祥：所以圖片上左邊這五個在你們今年的中小企業白皮書裡有嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：是，這些都是這幾年來，不管是地緣政治或全球供應鏈……"],["洪委員毓祥：我是說有在今年的白皮書裡嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：都是在……"],["洪委員毓祥：就是這五個。"],["何次長晉滄：都在我們的發現裡面，我們都有看到這些問題。"],["洪委員毓祥：好，我現在的問題是，第一，政府每次在做政策計畫的時候，應該先花多一點資源去了解問題形成的原因。第二，建議政府定期面對面跟這些中小微企業接觸，同時我也希望你們可以把每年的大概情形告訴我們，比如現在要審116年的預算，你們大概要接觸多少中小微企業、類型是什麼？每次調查完之後要把問題歸納，然後追蹤，當然，有一些可以委託MIC或工研院等去調查，我是覺得要先了解問題，這樣你的對策才有辦法下去。這就延續到下個問題，就是當你把問題了解清楚之後，才有辦法開藥方；開完藥方後，我現在的問題是，為什麼我禮拜一辦公聽會？譬如現在有不同的企業，就像你們講的，有微型企業、小型、中型，還有新創。口號都喊得很好啦，要健身、要壯大、要升級、要拔尖，這些都是形容詞。然後你剛剛又說有這幾個問題，所以你的藥方政策到底會怎麼開？你的KPI這些到底會怎麼設計？次長，不曉得你們目前做到什麼地步了？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，其實我們在114年就推出中小微企業多元振興方案，數位轉型、淨零轉型或通路布建其實是整個方案的重點。這次總統提出來的，其實跟委員看到的很類似，亦即是不是要加大，而且要加深輔導的內涵？所以我們把群聚共榮，包括商圈、市場、夜市都放進來，最重要的就是新創拔尖，因為新創就是改變未來臺灣經濟很重要的一個……"],["洪委員毓祥：我希望你交一個這樣的報告，可以找中企署，或是你們一起做。針對這個東西，假設我們把它稱之為矩陣圖，每一個東西配合你前面調查到的最主要的問題，我們想要解決的，因為我們不可能就每一個問題都去解決嘛，所以針對最重要的問題，你要說明開出這個對策下去後會是什麼，這一整個政策的施政藍圖才會出來，但我們現在都看不到，這也是我們為什麼一直在講到底……我現在看到的都是一個、一個的政策，見樹不見林，做下去之後也不曉得那個成果會是什麼。這是老問題了，十幾、二十年來都是這個樣子，所以我希望你們用比較創新的格局與做法。","再來就是數字的部分，你們的數字常常都兜不起來，114年計畫啟動，行政院的新聞公告指出，114年度投入116億，卓院長今年又公開說114年投入103億，這中間就差了13億。然後115年又說投入109億，116年你們送進來的預算正式報告告訴我們，每年有250億的資源，但行政院又說未來8年要加碼投入1,000億，所以114年你們到底是投入116億還是103億？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，我們是從現有的統計，比方各部會投入中小企業的預算，其實每年大概有一百多億，再加上……"],["洪委員毓祥：這是你經濟部的還是整個行政院的？"],["何次長晉滄：大部分應該都是經濟部的。"],["洪委員毓祥：都在你們經濟部啊！"],["何次長晉滄：但是我們也有把各部會用在中小企業身上的這些經費統計進來，我們之所以會說116年開始會有250億，是因為總統又加碼8年1,000億，所以我們就是把現有的……"],["洪委員毓祥：8年250億是2,000億欸！"],["何次長晉滄：現有的一百多億再加上總統未來每年大概會給一百多億，這樣加起來，從116年開始每年大概會有250億左右的預算。"],["洪委員毓祥：所以這個加碼1,000億是新增的？"],["何次長晉滄：對。"],["洪委員毓祥：你的既有預算假設我們抓103億，然後再加上一年差不多是125億左右，所以加起來一年是二百多億？"],["何次長晉滄：大概250億左右。"],["洪委員毓祥：250億左右？"],["何次長晉滄：是。"],["洪委員毓祥：要把這個東西的預算金額寫清楚，這250億是包含哪些部會？是把你的公務預算、基金支出、租稅優惠、信保、國發基金投資都算進去，還是這250億純粹就是產業補助跟推動的錢而已？"],["何次長晉滄：是全部都會有，到時候我們會有一個方案，會再提供給委員。"],["洪委員毓祥：所以是把基金支出、國發基金的投資、信保這些都放進去？"],["何次長晉滄：對，都放在這裡面。"],["洪委員毓祥：所以你真正給產業的補助一年根本不到250億嘛！"],["何次長晉滄：應該都是在整個裡面啦，亦即250億是……"],["洪委員毓祥：你要給我細項的報告，每一個都要拆解出來。因為我們業界聽到的是，250億是用在產業的補助、研發、創新跟淨零轉型上，不包含國發基金的投資、銀行融資這些，這個你很難算欸！"],["何次長晉滄：我們到時候再提供一些資料給委員參考。"],["洪委員毓祥：我希望你們的250億是新增給產業的補助跟研發啦！好不好？"],["何次長晉滄：是。"],["洪委員毓祥：不要籠統地全部都加進去，不然我們中小企業想像的有250億，結果拿到的只有50億，剩下的200億都是國發基金投資、信保融資，還有財政部的公股融資，對不對？這樣不行啦！","再來，你們的績效也很奇怪，再讓我花一點時間，因為我覺得這會牽涉到你們116年的預算審查。現在114年……我看你們送進來的報告，預計輔導20萬3,500家，創造產值689億，然後行政院114年公布的結果，家數沒變，同樣是20萬3,500家，但產值卻從689億變成是91億，為何？是前面誤植嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，其實我們都是不斷地在做調查，會隨著調查時間點不一樣……"],["洪委員毓祥：不是，你們吹牛吹太多了，你們本來預估是689億，怎麼你們的目標又修整成91億？"],["何次長晉滄：這個資料我們再檢視一下好了，因為委員講的資料，我們沒有……"],["洪委員毓祥：我說我就幫你們看數字，這個東西要檢視一下，然後你再把正確的報告給我，不然我們都會覺得從689億變成91億的目標，這是什麼東西？"],["何次長晉滄：應該不會這樣。"],["洪委員毓祥：第二個，我想次長這麼多年了，應該很清楚，產值跟商機不同，商機都是吹牛的，產值才是實在的，所以要把這個東西分清楚，不要把你的商機當成是KPI，這個要分清楚的。"],["何次長晉滄：好，我們把它分類。"],["洪委員毓祥：然後你們的成果，我認為還是看得不是很清楚，因為你們的成果大概都還是數字，我再找你們研究，我們常常要求要OKR，但我要的不是output，輔導多少家怎麼樣、拿到多少錢，那個對我都不重要，重要的是他的outcome跟impact，我到底是幫助他解決了什麼問題，要回到你最前面調查的他的缺口，那才會真正感受到，好不好？"],["何次長晉滄：好。"],["洪委員毓祥：最後，禮拜一的公聽會也有人講到，然後你也一直在講，我記得國科會也有給數發部還是什麼去幫你們經濟部做整個中小企業或是整個經濟部企業申請資源的一站式，我們才講資訊入口而已，這個進度是做到哪裡了？"],["何次長晉滄：這個部分我們要再跟數發部來了解一下。"],["洪委員毓祥：你知道為什麼嗎？因為這本來是經濟部中企署要做的，中企署不想做，就丟給……"],["何次長晉滄：不是啦！是因為組改，組改成立了數發部，所以在業務移撥的時候，我們就把這項業務移撥到數發部，所以我們再跟數發部了解一下。"],["洪委員毓祥：我覺得這樣子真的不好，如果可以，就拿回來自己做也行，因為這個是申請你們的補助，它已經過去兩年多、三年了，然後還沒有看到成果，這個大家都在罵，我昨天去廠商那邊也是啊！他們就說不知道要去哪裡申請、到底他適不適用、有沒有超過期限、可以申請多少、要找誰等等，完全不知道！"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，我們在上個禮拜成立一個LINE@的群組……"],["洪委員毓祥：我不要LINE@，因為你們的網站何其多，然後資訊一堆……"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，這個LINE@有一個好處，就是我們有新的政策，我們就會推播出去，而且目前LINE@的網站上面已經有把經濟部及各部會提供給中小企業的資源都整理在上面了。"],["洪委員毓祥：那個不夠智慧，現在都是AI時代了，那個跟當初國科會給數發部要去幫經濟部做的相比，完全不符合國科會的要求，那個還是一般的portal而已，這個再定期請中企署去檢討一下好不好？去看一下數發部的狀況。"],["何次長晉滄：好。"],["洪委員毓祥：最後，我只再耽誤30秒就好，次長可以下台，請國科會，30秒就好。國科會，我看完你的報告，我只有30秒給你建議，國科會跟國發會一樣，國發會也是，不論是地方創生或是新創的補助，我覺得很多都跟經濟部的重疊，這我在國發會已經唸過了。國科會這邊也是，你的報告裡頭有加速器，有新創培育，又有人才訓練，到底你們這些跟經濟部的有什麼差別？資源都是重複浪費、redundant。"],["吳副處長醒非：跟委員報告，在國發會有一個三個部會的聯合系統，基本上國科會的定位是在比較early stage，本來創業的路程就是比較長遠，一般……"],["洪委員毓祥：中小企業署沒有early stage的？國發會新創不是early stage，我們的angel放的不是early stage？我覺得你們兩個會去好好做一下sync，我很討厭看到這種資源重複的東西，審計部也唸，預算中心也唸，然後我們今天討論的是中小微，但你們科學園區的產學合作裡面根本不是中小微啊！所以我覺得你這個東西不太對啦，我只是說你回去再把你們的施政策略……在這一塊如果沒有你就說沒有；如果你真的有中小微的，那個才是你們國科會看看有什麼東西在產學合作是中小微可以做的，好不好？"],["吳副處長醒非：好，這個我們……"],["洪委員毓祥：這個是看完你們的報告，我給你們的建議。謝謝。"],["吳副處長醒非：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝副處長，謝謝召委。"],["主席（洪委員毓祥）：接下來我們請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"agendarec_url":null,"pdf_url":null,"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第27次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、財政部首長、金融監督管理委員會首長、財團法人\n中小企業信用保證基金首長、國家科學及技術委員會首長就「中小微新企業發展困境、政策需求\n及政府資源配置與執行成效」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1157601_00001","doc_url":null,"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-19-27","speakers":["洪毓祥","陳亭妃","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","蔡易餘","鄭正鈐","傅崐萁","邱議瑩","謝衣鳯","徐欣瑩","陳超明","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-08-26"],"gazette_id":"1157601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1157601_00002"],"pdf_page_offset":0}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}