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謝謝委員"},{"start":765.96,"end":768.16,"text":"的確我們協助地方創生"},{"start":768.1999999999999,"end":771.3199999999999,"text":"希望他們能夠有自己的能量"},{"start":771.3199999999999,"end":773.52,"text":"我想補助只是一剛開始"},{"start":773.52,"end":775.68,"text":"來協助他們建立這樣的能量"},{"start":775.68,"end":777.8,"text":"從過去我們推動的成效來看"},{"start":777.8,"end":779.76,"text":"其實在促進就業方面"},{"start":779.76,"end":781.1999999999999,"text":"還有創造產值方面"},{"start":781.1999999999999,"end":782.88,"text":"已經有相當的成果"},{"start":782.88,"end":786.16,"text":"那當然我們希望有更精進的模式"},{"start":786.16,"end":787.8399999999999,"text":"所以就如委員剛剛提到的"},{"start":787.8399999999999,"end":789.4399999999999,"text":"我們是希望這些新的"},{"start":789.4399999999999,"end":793.16,"text":"彼此間能夠共創一個"},{"start":793.16,"end":794.9599999999999,"text":"共好的一個生態圈"},{"start":794.9599999999999,"end":796.4,"text":"好 第一個回答"},{"start":796.4399999999999,"end":799.84,"text":"共好 共創 補助只是剛開始"},{"start":799.84,"end":800.52,"text":"所以第一個"},{"start":800.52,"end":802.64,"text":"本席要求兩件事情"},{"start":802.64,"end":805.3199999999999,"text":"第一個你把你所投入的資源"},{"start":805.3199999999999,"end":808.72,"text":"那麼認為它可以自主的樣態"},{"start":808.72,"end":810.1999999999999,"text":"那你順便給本席"},{"start":810.1999999999999,"end":811.0799999999999,"text":"這第一個"},{"start":811.0799999999999,"end":812.76,"text":"第二個我要請教"},{"start":812.76,"end":815.84,"text":"團隊自主的一個營運"},{"start":815.84,"end":818.84,"text":"是不是列為未來地方創生"},{"start":818.84,"end":822.3199999999999,"text":"KPI非常重要的一個具體"},{"start":822.3199999999999,"end":824.88,"text":"是 我想這個方向我們一定都是"},{"start":824.88,"end":826.76,"text":"下落這個具體的KPI"},{"start":826.76,"end":827.76,"text":"好 謝謝"},{"start":827.76,"end":829.24,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝委員"},{"start":829.24,"end":832.24,"text":"好 謝謝楊承英委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:09:17.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:09:18.480000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:09:19.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:09:20.800000+08:00","text":"我們邀請經濟部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T10:09:21.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:09:22.817778+08:00","text":"我們請經濟部何次長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:09:27.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:09:28.580000+08:00","text":"楊委員好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:09:28.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:09:29.600000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:09:30+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:10:18.982857+08:00","text":"總統在520提出1,000億元加速振興中小微企業計畫，並宣示將現在中小企業發展條例升級為中小微企業升級轉型發展條例，它的內容大概是擴大研發、轉型設備、擴大增僱員工以及加薪等租稅優惠，並且在於要增加補助、政策性的貸款以及信保保證跟國發基金的金融投資跟融資，目的就是要建立起中小微企業完整的支持體系。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:10:19.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:10:40.811429+08:00","text":"我也看到你們在24號的書面報告當中，特別提出目前相關的地方特色產業輔導，你們有接觸到的大概是1萬1,566家，諮詢、診斷的大概是2,237家，進行深度輔導的是873家。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:10:41.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:11:06.210000+08:00","text":"國發基金在加強投資中小企業實施方案，到今年115年6月底累計投資114.84億元，帶動民間投資的金額大概是111.73億元，在你的數字上面一共投資339家的中小企業。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:11:06.977143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:11:27.257143+08:00","text":"我們發覺政府投資的工具越來越多，但是你真正衡量企業的應該是轉型成功的指標，這並不明確，我們僅看到家數，譬如企業導入AI生產力到底提升多少？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:11:28.706667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:11:32.785455+08:00","text":"淨零碳排加入的時候，成本降低又有多少？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:11:33.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:11:44.135000+08:00","text":"取得補助跟投資，對營收、出口跟量體到底是不是有增加？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:11:44.876364+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:11:55.293333+08:00","text":"在每一次的報告當中，本席詳細地看，都是關於到底touch到多少家數、辦了多少場次，大概都是如此。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:11:55.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:12:17.480000+08:00","text":"所以本席要請教，經濟部是不是會設立一套具體的轉型成效追蹤機制，明確掌控企業接受政策支援之後，在營收、在整個生產力以及出口跟就業方面，到底提升了多少？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:12:19.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:12:33.524444+08:00","text":"委員的問題非常具體，而且也是我們一直在要求我們的輔導團隊，不要只看output，我們一定要看outcome，但是outcome……","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:12:33.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:12:41.045000+08:00","text":"既然你不要只看output，要看outcome，你更應該明確，但在8月24號的書面報告就不是只有touch家數，怎麼都不聽你的話呢？","quality":0.552},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:12:41.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:12:51.640000+08:00","text":"所以跟委員報告，剛剛洪委員在質詢的時候也提到同樣的問題，outcome的追蹤，我們可能要比較長的時間，因為它可能……","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:12:51.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:12:53.760000+08:00","text":"請問你們有沒有機制？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:12:54+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:12:54.672000+08:00","text":"這個最重要。","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:12:54.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:12:56.048889+08:00","text":"我們會有追蹤的機制……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:12:56.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:12:57.620000+08:00","text":"有沒有機制，請告訴我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:12:57.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:12:58.824000+08:00","text":"現在有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:12:59.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:12:59.800000+08:00","text":"有，有機制……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:12:59.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:13:03.315000+08:00","text":"那有了、已經執行了，為什麼不把成效拿出來給我們看呢？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:13:03.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:13:11.311429+08:00","text":"而且未來我們也會把各部會所投入的預算，我們會要求大家把outcome都能夠統計出來。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:13:11.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:13:12.624000+08:00","text":"做一個整合嘛！對！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:13:13.477143+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:13:18.208000+08:00","text":"可以將你追蹤的成效告訴社會大眾，是不是如此？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:13:18.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:13:19.106667+08:00","text":"會不會這麼做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:13:19.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:13:20.540000+08:00","text":"是，會，會這麼做。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:13:21.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:13:32.285000+08:00","text":"接下來本席要來請教，因為我們不希望每一次看到的報告就只有補助了多少家，這不是我們要看的，因為投資了資源，我們就是要有成效。","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:13:32.285000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:13:33.285000+08:00","text":"確實如此。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:13:32.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:14:01.440000+08:00","text":"要真正幫助到中小企業，甚至我們現在晉升為中小微企業，這也是本席在經濟委員會、在任何場合一直一直強調，臺灣今天之所以能夠如此，就是我們的中小企業打下的根基，80%的就業率都在這一塊，我們要謝謝所有中小企業的老闆，他能夠這麼樣的堅持跟支持，但是現在政府必須要做他的靠山，對不對？是，對。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:14:02.493333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:14:18.756000+08:00","text":"接下來本席要請教，因為您有提出中小微的部分，我現在看到是9月底要提出完整的政策，你預計在什麼時候提出？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:14:18.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:14:22.320000+08:00","text":"大家非常期待，什麼時候會提出？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:14:22.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:14:37.300000+08:00","text":"就是立法院開議期間，在下會期我們一定會提出來，因為這個中間會經過預告，當然委員也希望我們能夠辦多場次的公聽會、能夠蒐集大家的意見，我們再把大家的意見放進來。","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:14:37.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:14:51.360000+08:00","text":"所以速度要加快，因為總統5月公告、5月宣布，您說9月份要提出完整的制度，我們希望不能再慢了，甚至你要趕快加緊腳步研議。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:14:51.360000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:14:52.416000+08:00","text":"好，我們會儘快，是！","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:14:52.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:14:58.230000+08:00","text":"接下來我要請國科會，次長，你也一併站一下，不好意思！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:15:02.245714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:15:38.666667+08:00","text":"國科會在113年推動無人機關鍵技術前瞻研發計畫，投資將近3.7億預算，整合清大、臺大、成大、虎尾科大以及國研院等研究機構，從飛控、通訊、AI感知、群飛、3D建圖到反制技術進行科學研究，也設定具體的量化指標，這個非常好，一定要有量化指標，預計要在明年116年完成驗收，國科會，是不是？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"吳副處長醒非","start":"2026-08-26T10:15:40.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:15:46.777778+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為這個不是今天的題目，我沒有負責這個部分。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:15:47.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:16:31.133333+08:00","text":"你是代表國科會，沒關係，你不清楚，我告訴你，就是116年要完成驗收，重點在於國家投入這些資源在關鍵技術，不能讓驗收完就完成任務，經濟部站在旁邊，我個人認為國家是一個合作機制，稅金都是人民的納稅錢，所以真正的政策成果才是最重要的，也就是最後是不是能夠被國內的企業承接形成產品，有能力量產出來，這是非常重要的。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:16:31.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:16:37.782222+08:00","text":"所以我要請教經濟部，臺中已經有航太精密機械及無人機產業機組，對不對？是。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:16:39.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:16:49.413333+08:00","text":"臺中非常的堅固，中部地區非常的堅固，如果國科會負責研發出來，經濟部有沒有前瞻布局？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:16:51.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:17:04.336000+08:00","text":"國科會花了三點六億多、將近3.7億研發出來，你準備要怎麼承接，有哪些企業可以承接、可以量產？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:17:04.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:17:14.825455+08:00","text":"這才是我們花人民納稅錢最重要的，從研發到產品的產出，也幫助所有的企業界。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:17:15.365714+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:17:43.340000+08:00","text":"我看到你頻頻點頭，我要說的是國家花錢做研究，不能只有讓我們的企業還是自己去摸索，所以本席要請教，國科會這項計畫在明年116年要完成驗收，現在是115年8月底，經濟部是不是要開始盤點可以交給哪一些相關企業，在哪一些場域可以驗證？","quality":0.888},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:17:43.906667+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:17:59.935385+08:00","text":"所以我要特別指出，你必須要設定成果的移轉和量產的具體時程，尤其是臺中的產業鏈，請教次長，臺中的產業鏈在這一塊到底要扮演什麼樣的角色？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:18:00.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:18:21.266667+08:00","text":"因為我不斷的在任何的委員會議也好，都一直強調政府必須做企業的靠山，藉由政府的能力，比如國科會116年就要提出這個研發成果的報告，接下來臺中的產業扮演什麼樣的角色？","quality":0.89},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:18:21.693333+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:18:26.486667+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，國科會的角色就是研發。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:18:26.486667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:18:27.486667+08:00","text":"成果要出來了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:18:27.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:18:34.340000+08:00","text":"研發的下一個階段就是要技轉，技轉的部分就是經濟部這邊要有企業能夠來承接。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:18:34.340000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:18:35.340000+08:00","text":"非常好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:18:35.217778+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:18:39.826667+08:00","text":"經濟部的責任就是要把可以來承接這個技術的……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:18:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:18:40.766667+08:00","text":"開始盤點了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:18:41.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:18:44.580000+08:00","text":"已經盤點了，無人機的部分，其實我們已經盤點……","quality":0.684},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:18:44.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:18:49.380000+08:00","text":"非常感謝，有盤點了，請教臺中的產業鏈是扮演什麼角色？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"何次長晉滄","start":"2026-08-26T10:18:49.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:19:24.574286+08:00","text":"其實臺中的產業鏈非常完整，從整機、模組、系統到零組件都一應俱全，這也是臺中的特色，所以這些技術的研發，臺中的廠商絕對有能力來承接，尤其是我們盤點出來三晶二軟的技術缺口，也是我們跟國科會一起合作的部分，透過學校的研發能量能夠把這些技術轉到產業界，我想可以讓我們國內的無人機產業生態系能夠更加壯大。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:19:24.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:19:36.060000+08:00","text":"謝謝次長的回答，也就是臺中要扮演非常關鍵的產業鏈角色，所以我要告訴你們，我們臺中在等你，謝謝。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:19:36.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:20:05.215000+08:00","text":"接下來我要請教國發會和經濟部，國發會近期赴日本交流地方創生，也提出了以往的政策從2019年開始，我們的政策是要留住人才，到現在是轉向留下專業，本席認為這個轉向，我給你讚許，但也暴露出以往的方向是不對的，還有精進的空間。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:20:05.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:20:18.025000+08:00","text":"在這樣的情況之下，希望透過遠距協助、人才媒合以及跨域合作，讓人才即使不移居地方，也能夠參與地方發展。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:20:19.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:20:50.073684+08:00","text":"從2019年地方創生元年開始到現在，政府投入了54.61億，但是一直被人家質疑團隊高度依賴政府的補助，補助一停就活不下去，這樣的情況不是我們所樂意看到的，到目前為止，地方產業是不是都沒有建立起自主造血的能力？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:20:52.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:21:25.432000+08:00","text":"我個人認為政府已經投下資源，現在又提出新的地方創生模式，不能夠只是不斷地更換你的政策名稱及人才論述，應該要正面檢驗過去投入的這些資源，究竟留下了什麼樣的成果，我們不希望淪為補助不斷、創生不成，這是我們不願意樂見的。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:21:25.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:21:48.800000+08:00","text":"所以我要請教副主委，國發會既然改變方向，推動新的地方創生模式，是不是應該要先交代以往所投入的資源到底能夠培養出多少脫離政府補助、持續自主經營的團隊，請說明？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:21:49.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:22:00.500000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，的確，我們協助地方創生是希望他們能夠有自己的能量，補助只是一剛開始來協助他們建立這樣的能量。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:22:00.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:22:07.670000+08:00","text":"從過去我們推動成效來看，其實在促進就業方面，還有創造產值方面，已經有相當的成果。","quality":1},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:22:08.114286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:22:19.735000+08:00","text":"當然，我們希望有更精進的模式，所以就如委員剛剛提到的，我們希望這些團隊彼此間能夠共創一個共好的生態圈。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:22:20.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:22:35.860000+08:00","text":"你的回答是共好、共創、補助只是剛開始，所以本席要求兩件事情，第一個，你把所投入的資源，認為它可以自主的樣態，以書面資料提供給本席，這是第一個。","quality":0.823},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:22:36.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:22:47.030000+08:00","text":"第二個，我要請教的是，團隊的自主營運是不是列為未來地方創生KPI非常重要的一個具體方向？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:22:47.910769+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:22:49.683077+08:00","text":"這個方向我們一定都是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2026-08-26T10:22:50.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:22:52.426667+08:00","text":"納入具體的KPI，好，謝謝。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"詹副主任委員方冠","start":"2026-08-26T10:22:53.394286+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:22:54.028571+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T10:22:54.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2026-08-26T10:22:56.865000+08:00","text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2026-08-26T10:22:57.365000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2026-08-26T10:23:00.507857+08:00","text":"接下來請呂玉玲委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":479,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（10時9分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言。我們邀請經濟部。"],["主席：我們請經濟部何次長。"],["何次長晉滄：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長好。總統在520提出1,000億元加速振興中小微企業計畫，並宣示將現在中小企業發展條例升級為中小微企業升級轉型發展條例，它的內容大概是擴大研發、轉型設備、擴大增僱員工以及加薪等租稅優惠，並且在於要增加補助、政策性的貸款以及信保保證跟國發基金的金融投資跟融資，目的就是要建立起中小微企業完整的支持體系。我也看到你們在24號的書面報告當中，特別提出目前相關的地方特色產業輔導，你們有接觸到的大概是1萬1,566家，諮詢、診斷的大概是2,237家，進行深度輔導的是873家。國發基金在加強投資中小企業實施方案，到今年115年6月底累計投資114.84億元，帶動民間投資的金額大概是111.73億元，在你的數字上面一共投資339家的中小企業。我們發覺政府投資的工具越來越多，但是你真正衡量企業的應該是轉型成功的指標，這並不明確，我們僅看到家數，譬如企業導入AI生產力到底提升多少？淨零碳排加入的時候，成本降低又有多少？取得補助跟投資，對營收、出口跟量體到底是不是有增加？在每一次的報告當中，本席詳細地看，都是關於到底touch到多少家數、辦了多少場次，大概都是如此。所以本席要請教，經濟部是不是會設立一套具體的轉型成效追蹤機制，明確掌控企業接受政策支援之後，在營收、在整個生產力以及出口跟就業方面，到底提升了多少？"],["何次長晉滄：委員的問題非常具體，而且也是我們一直在要求我們的輔導團隊，不要只看output，我們一定要看outcome，但是outcome……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：既然你不要只看output，要看outcome，你更應該明確，但在8月24號的書面報告就不是只有touch家數，怎麼都不聽你的話呢？"],["何次長晉滄：所以跟委員報告，剛剛洪委員在質詢的時候也提到同樣的問題，outcome的追蹤，我們可能要比較長的時間，因為它可能……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問你們有沒有機制？這個最重要。"],["何次長晉滄：我們會有追蹤的機制……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有機制，請告訴我？現在有沒有？"],["何次長晉滄：有，有機制……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那有了、已經執行了，為什麼不把成效拿出來給我們看呢？"],["何次長晉滄：而且未來我們也會把各部會所投入的預算，我們會要求大家把outcome都能夠統計出來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：做一個整合嘛！"],["何次長晉滄：對！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：可以將你追蹤的成效告訴社會大眾，是不是如此？會不會這麼做？"],["何次長晉滄：是，會，會這麼做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要來請教，因為我們不希望每一次看到的報告就只有補助了多少家，這不是我們要看的，因為投資了資源，我們就是要有成效。"],["何次長晉滄：確實如此。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要真正幫助到中小企業，甚至我們現在晉升為中小微企業，這也是本席在經濟委員會、在任何場合一直一直強調，臺灣今天之所以能夠如此，就是我們的中小企業打下的根基，80%的就業率都在這一塊，我們要謝謝所有中小企業的老闆，他能夠這麼樣的堅持跟支持，但是現在政府必須要做他的靠山，對不對？"],["何次長晉滄：是，對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要請教，因為您有提出中小微的部分，我現在看到是9月底要提出完整的政策，你預計在什麼時候提出？大家非常期待，什麼時候會提出？"],["何次長晉滄：就是立法院開議期間，在下會期我們一定會提出來，因為這個中間會經過預告，當然委員也希望我們能夠辦多場次的公聽會、能夠蒐集大家的意見，我們再把大家的意見放進來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以速度要加快，因為總統5月公告、5月宣布，您說9月份要提出完整的制度，我們希望不能再慢了，甚至你要趕快加緊腳步研議。"],["何次長晉滄：好，我們會儘快，是！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來我要請國科會，次長，你也一併站一下，不好意思！國科會在113年推動無人機關鍵技術前瞻研發計畫，投資將近3.7億預算，整合清大、臺大、成大、虎尾科大以及國研院等研究機構，從飛控、通訊、AI感知、群飛、3D建圖到反制技術進行科學研究，也設定具體的量化指標，這個非常好，一定要有量化指標，預計要在明年116年完成驗收，國科會，是不是？"],["吳副處長醒非：報告委員，因為這個不是今天的題目，我沒有負責這個部分。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你是代表國科會，沒關係，你不清楚，我告訴你，就是116年要完成驗收，重點在於國家投入這些資源在關鍵技術，不能讓驗收完就完成任務，經濟部站在旁邊，我個人認為國家是一個合作機制，稅金都是人民的納稅錢，所以真正的政策成果才是最重要的，也就是最後是不是能夠被國內的企業承接形成產品，有能力量產出來，這是非常重要的。所以我要請教經濟部，臺中已經有航太精密機械及無人機產業機組，對不對？"],["何次長晉滄：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：臺中非常的堅固，中部地區非常的堅固，如果國科會負責研發出來，經濟部有沒有前瞻布局？國科會花了三點六億多、將近3.7億研發出來，你準備要怎麼承接，有哪些企業可以承接、可以量產？這才是我們花人民納稅錢最重要的，從研發到產品的產出，也幫助所有的企業界。我看到你頻頻點頭，我要說的是國家花錢做研究，不能只有讓我們的企業還是自己去摸索，所以本席要請教，國科會這項計畫在明年116年要完成驗收，現在是115年8月底，經濟部是不是要開始盤點可以交給哪一些相關企業，在哪一些場域可以驗證？所以我要特別指出，你必須要設定成果的移轉和量產的具體時程，尤其是臺中的產業鏈，請教次長，臺中的產業鏈在這一塊到底要扮演什麼樣的角色？因為我不斷的在任何的委員會議也好，都一直強調政府必須做企業的靠山，藉由政府的能力，比如國科會116年就要提出這個研發成果的報告，接下來臺中的產業扮演什麼樣的角色？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，國科會的角色就是研發。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：成果要出來了。"],["何次長晉滄：研發的下一個階段就是要技轉，技轉的部分就是經濟部這邊要有企業能夠來承接。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常好。"],["何次長晉滄：經濟部的責任就是要把可以來承接這個技術的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：開始盤點了嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：已經盤點了，無人機的部分，其實我們已經盤點……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常感謝，有盤點了，請教臺中的產業鏈是扮演什麼角色？"],["何次長晉滄：其實臺中的產業鏈非常完整，從整機、模組、系統到零組件都一應俱全，這也是臺中的特色，所以這些技術的研發，臺中的廠商絕對有能力來承接，尤其是我們盤點出來三晶二軟的技術缺口，也是我們跟國科會一起合作的部分，透過學校的研發能量能夠把這些技術轉到產業界，我想可以讓我們國內的無人機產業生態系能夠更加壯大。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝次長的回答，也就是臺中要扮演非常關鍵的產業鏈角色，所以我要告訴你們，我們臺中在等你，謝謝。","接下來我要請教國發會和經濟部，國發會近期赴日本交流地方創生，也提出了以往的政策從2019年開始，我們的政策是要留住人才，到現在是轉向留下專業，本席認為這個轉向，我給你讚許，但也暴露出以往的方向是不對的，還有精進的空間。在這樣的情況之下，希望透過遠距協助、人才媒合以及跨域合作，讓人才即使不移居地方，也能夠參與地方發展。從2019年地方創生元年開始到現在，政府投入了54.61億，但是一直被人家質疑團隊高度依賴政府的補助，補助一停就活不下去，這樣的情況不是我們所樂意看到的，到目前為止，地方產業是不是都沒有建立起自主造血的能力？我個人認為政府已經投下資源，現在又提出新的地方創生模式，不能夠只是不斷地更換你的政策名稱及人才論述，應該要正面檢驗過去投入的這些資源，究竟留下了什麼樣的成果，我們不希望淪為補助不斷、創生不成，這是我們不願意樂見的。所以我要請教副主委，國發會既然改變方向，推動新的地方創生模式，是不是應該要先交代以往所投入的資源到底能夠培養出多少脫離政府補助、持續自主經營的團隊，請說明？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：謝謝委員，的確，我們協助地方創生是希望他們能夠有自己的能量，補助只是一剛開始來協助他們建立這樣的能量。從過去我們推動成效來看，其實在促進就業方面，還有創造產值方面，已經有相當的成果。當然，我們希望有更精進的模式，所以就如委員剛剛提到的，我們希望這些團隊彼此間能夠共創一個共好的生態圈。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你的回答是共好、共創、補助只是剛開始，所以本席要求兩件事情，第一個，你把所投入的資源，認為它可以自主的樣態，以書面資料提供給本席，這是第一個。第二個，我要請教的是，團隊的自主營運是不是列為未來地方創生KPI非常重要的一個具體方向？"],["詹副主任委員方冠：這個方向我們一定都是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：納入具體的KPI，好，謝謝。"],["詹副主任委員方冠：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。","接下來請呂玉玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"agendarec_url":null,"pdf_url":null,"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第27次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、國家發展委員會主任委員、財政部首長、金融監督管理委員會首長、財團法人\n中小企業信用保證基金首長、國家科學及技術委員會首長就「中小微新企業發展困境、政策需求\n及政府資源配置與執行成效」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1157601_00001","doc_url":null,"page_end":60,"meet_id":"委員會-11-5-19-27","speakers":["洪毓祥","陳亭妃","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","葉元之","蔡易餘","鄭正鈐","傅崐萁","邱議瑩","謝衣鳯","徐欣瑩","陳超明","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2026-08-26"],"gazette_id":"1157601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1157601_00002"],"pdf_page_offset":0}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}